collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* Kansas St SOTG

Jamal Cain

17 points, 9 rebounds,
2 assists, 34 minutes

2019-20 Season SoG Tally
Howard3
Anim1
Cain1
Bailey1
McEwen1

'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

USC receives level 1 notice of allegations from NCAA for basketball by PTM
[Today at 08:16:00 AM]


Georgetown Hiroshima by MU82
[Today at 06:37:47 AM]


Upsets! / Surprise results. by THRILLHO
[Today at 06:11:51 AM]


Recruiting as of 11/15/19 by shoothoops
[December 14, 2019, 09:51:01 PM]


Big East Non Conference Results by Herman Cain
[December 14, 2019, 09:22:38 PM]


Rumor Mill: Injury Redshirt by Dr. Blackheart
[December 14, 2019, 08:29:01 PM]


Composite Rankings (40+ ranking systems) by Cheeks
[December 14, 2019, 08:23:09 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Grambling State

Marquette
73
Marquette vs

Grambling State

Date/Time: Dec 17, 2019 - 7:00pm
TV: FS WI
Schedule for 2019-20
Kansas St
65

Author Topic: Help on the way for 19/20?  (Read 28561 times)

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #225 on: April 26, 2019, 12:32:27 PM »
J5

Correct.

Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

TAMU Garcia

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16212
  • A Reading from Wojo's 1st Slide to the Marquettens
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #226 on: April 26, 2019, 12:33:29 PM »
Pretty sure he means not sacrificing academics and having good kids for the benefit of wins and losses on the basketball court.

J5

Correct.

Im still confused. Is the implication that by investing in basketball we're somehow sacrificing academics at the university?
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4401
  • Immensely correct
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #227 on: April 26, 2019, 12:34:52 PM »
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4401
  • Immensely correct
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #228 on: April 26, 2019, 12:36:56 PM »
Marquette fans are rooting for the Marquette coach to fail which means their team will fail? Because they don’t believe in him?? Some of you crack me the hell up

Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday? 
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6300
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #229 on: April 26, 2019, 12:37:03 PM »
Mike,

I acknowledged I picked one sentence out of your post, and acknowledged that I understood your premise. We likely agree on 90% of the type of kid to recruit and how to recruit them. Funny thing, you noted how Rick used to recruit the Mom and that probably is true to this day. Sadly, for some kids I would recruit, the appeal of seeing multi millionaires strutting their stuff at the Fiserv might mean more than their child getting an education.

I will add, that I do not agree with you on the Jalen Johnson's of the world, especially in today's world. I have said many times that I love Wojo swinging for the fences by recruiting stars. He may have come up short, but likely much closer than many on here know. Wojo's value, IMO, is he might land a whale. If he does, the second is easier.

I do apologize if I misrepresented you, and thought I had made that clear in original reply to you. You state your case far better than I ever state mine.

Lastly, please remember that I do believe that Wojo has a chance at landing a whale. No BS, I truly believe that.

Cheeks

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4401
  • Immensely correct
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #230 on: April 26, 2019, 12:37:38 PM »
You go and get the best players....roll the ball out and go play.

Sure...just like that.


Some of you at Disneyland today in the Fantasyland section posting on Scoop?
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6401
  • Js for days
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #231 on: April 26, 2019, 12:42:53 PM »
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

Marquette has never consistently landed classes full of top 50 talent.  Sure, they've landed a few here and there, generally from the state of Wisconsin, but its never been consistent.  Not sure why you expect that to suddenly change?

You always say you want Marquette to be ELITE again.  I wasn't alive in 1970s, and they definitely were elite then, but that is now 40+ years ago.  Marquette hasn't been elite since, and the game of college basketball is wildly different now than it was then.   Since that time, Marquette has spent a large potion of their time in mid major conferences.  Since 2000, Marquette has been a very good program, but even then still only made the tournament 12 of 20 seasons (60%). Since MU moved to the Big East in 05-06, they've made 10/14 tournaments (72%). You could maybe argue Buzz had them approaching elite status, and those years were certainly fun (as a 2012 grad, it certainly got me hooked), but even then, there were multiple teams that were right near the NCAA cutline.

At the end of the day, I just think what you expect is mostly unrealistic.  Can MU replicate what Crean and Buzz had - making the tournament 8 or 9 times of out of ten seasons, and bounce between bubble type teams and top 15-25 types every couple years?  For sure.  I'm still not sure I would call that elite. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6401
  • Js for days
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #232 on: April 26, 2019, 12:43:13 PM »
People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

This
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6300
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #233 on: April 26, 2019, 01:07:29 PM »
J5

I have been consistent on here for years. We are NOT going to relive the Al glory days, for many reasons. I have said countless times, give me a program with the success Xavier has had (I knowing lacking March wins) for two decades and I would call it a success. That said, 'nova and the zags have build something pretty special and they should be the goal for what program can be.

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3945
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #234 on: April 26, 2019, 01:21:57 PM »

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.

Buzz's last year we were 17-15. They were predicted to win the BE. We missed the tournament. That team that went 17-15, lost Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, and Chris Otule.

Tell me again how things under Buzz were trending upward.  How many games did you expect him to win if he stayed.

The facts here completely disagree with your statement.

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • #WeAreBaltimore
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #235 on: April 26, 2019, 01:24:44 PM »
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

I suggest you use your own advice when handling your money. Don’t be realistic- shoot to invest in companies that promise glorious returns.

Oh......... good luck. Let us know how it goes

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6401
  • Js for days
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #236 on: April 26, 2019, 01:27:25 PM »
J5

I have been consistent on here for years. We are NOT going to relive the Al glory days, for many reasons. I have said countless times, give me a program with the success Xavier has had (I knowing lacking March wins) for two decades and I would call it a success. That said, 'nova and the zags have build something pretty special and they should be the goal for what program can be.

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.

FWIW - that question was directed at guru. I don’t think our opinions are all that different at the end of the day - we just express it a little differently.

I don’t think Wojos last 3 seasons and next season will be all that different from Buzz’s tenure results wise. Which is why I am not jumping off a cliff.
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13630
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2019, 01:31:25 PM »
"You play to win the game"



Nah, play angry, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12629
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2019, 01:50:26 PM »
Mike,

I acknowledged I picked one sentence out of your post, and acknowledged that I understood your premise. We likely agree on 90% of the type of kid to recruit and how to recruit them. Funny thing, you noted how Rick used to recruit the Mom and that probably is true to this day. Sadly, for some kids I would recruit, the appeal of seeing multi millionaires strutting their stuff at the Fiserv might mean more than their child getting an education.

I will add, that I do not agree with you on the Jalen Johnson's of the world, especially in today's world. I have said many times that I love Wojo swinging for the fences by recruiting stars. He may have come up short, but likely much closer than many on here know. Wojo's value, IMO, is he might land a whale. If he does, the second is easier.

I do apologize if I misrepresented you, and thought I had made that clear in original reply to you. You state your case far better than I ever state mine.

Lastly, please remember that I do believe that Wojo has a chance at landing a whale. No BS, I truly believe that.

I appreciate this post, Goose.

I also believe Wojo has a chance to land a whale. Some could argue pretty successfully that he already has, given that he signed a 1-and-done burger boy who also was being recruited by Michigan State, Duke, Kentucky and others. (And many Scoopers have argued that getting Ellenson actually hurt the program's progress, which seems absurd to me.)

Wojo also got Markus, whom many believe would have been a 5-star (or close to it) had he reclassified earlier. He also got Joey, a 4.5-star who was being recruited by bluebloods. And of course he got Sam, whom you have called an all-time Marquette great, and who serves as proof that every player need not be a 4-star or 5-star.

I don't really think we disagree on what kind of player Wojo should pursue at all. I absolutely think he should go all-out for the Jalen Johnsons of the world, that he should swing for the fences. I just believe that he simultaneously should swing for solid doubles into the gap. Otherwise, if he swings and misses while going only for home runs, he could end up with a bunch of Chris Davises in his recruiting classes. I think he can go for the stars AND other very good players; that's what successful non-bluebloods do. Buzz and Crean did.

We agree on most of this, that's for sure. I want us to be great again. As you said in your answer to JJJJJJJJJJJJJ, I'd "settle" for Buzz-level success while trying to build for something even better.  And like you, I have doubts about whether Wojo can get us there. I think I'm probably more likely to give Wojo credit for some of his successes so far, but I assure you that I'm skeptical of whether it will happen under him.

We are Marquette!
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

NickelDimer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3153
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #239 on: April 26, 2019, 02:28:25 PM »
Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday?
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly
G.T.S.T

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6300
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #240 on: April 26, 2019, 02:33:09 PM »
Dimer

Of course it is silly. Chico's loves to rile up folks. We all want MU to win and do not care who is running the ship.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6340
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #241 on: April 26, 2019, 02:35:52 PM »
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly

I think the point is that the most ardent wojo haters would rather see the team flop and recruiting flop this year to oust wojo rather than see the team be respectable enough to buy him another year. Nobody in their right mind is claiming that you are actually rooting against MU.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 03:04:42 PM by Galway Eagle »
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Charlotte Warrior

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #242 on: April 26, 2019, 02:44:45 PM »
Buzz's last year we were 17-15. They were predicted to win the BE. We missed the tournament. That team that went 17-15, lost Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, and Chris Otule.

Tell me again how things under Buzz were trending upward.  How many games did you expect him to win if he stayed.

The facts here completely disagree with your statement.

139-69 over seven years, 6 tourneys, 2 s16 1 E8 and Vander left a year early or the season isn't lost.  Goodbye troll.

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2165
  • When I'm in Holland I eat the pannenkoeken
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #243 on: April 26, 2019, 02:51:26 PM »
139-69 over seven years, 6 tourneys, 2 s16 1 E8 and Vander left a year early or the season isn't lost.  Goodbye troll.

Troll???  Pretty sure he's been here awhile.

Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7703
  • 9-9-9
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #244 on: April 26, 2019, 02:57:42 PM »
Marquette has never consistently landed classes full of top 50 talent.  Sure, they've landed a few here and there, generally from the state of Wisconsin, but its never been consistent.  Not sure why you expect that to suddenly change?

You always say you want Marquette to be ELITE again.  I wasn't alive in 1970s, and they definitely were elite then, but that is now 40+ years ago.  Marquette hasn't been elite since, and the game of college basketball is wildly different now than it was then.   Since that time, Marquette has spent a large potion of their time in mid major conferences.  Since 2000, Marquette has been a very good program, but even then still only made the tournament 12 of 20 seasons (60%). Since MU moved to the Big East in 05-06, they've made 10/14 tournaments (72%). You could maybe argue Buzz had them approaching elite status, and those years were certainly fun (as a 2012 grad, it certainly got me hooked), but even then, there were multiple teams that were right near the NCAA cutline.

At the end of the day, I just think what you expect is mostly unrealistic.  Can MU replicate what Crean and Buzz had - making the tournament 8 or 9 times of out of ten seasons, and bounce between bubble type teams and top 15-25 types every couple years?  For sure.  I'm still not sure I would call that elite.
MU was at the top of the pecking order back in the day. In my view number 2 after the great UCLA teams it was a great feeling back then . MU can get there again. Nova did so no reason MU can’t
What is The Jeopardy Question for this answer?

Paulina, Malvina and Lunt

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12629
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #245 on: April 26, 2019, 03:27:11 PM »
Troll???  Pretty sure he's been here awhile.

Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years.

I think we probably make the tournament if we have Vander, despite that team's other shortcomings.

But the fact is that we didn't have Vander and Buzz wasn't prepared for it. Scoopers have just spent 2 weeks stating that the head coach is the CEO of the organization and is responsible for everything that happens. Even though I've generally been a Wojo supporter, I hold him mostly responsible for Hausershima. Having to start the worst backcourt in Marquette history ... that is just about entirely on Buzz.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #246 on: April 26, 2019, 03:54:31 PM »
People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

A little help for you...here is the official definition of mediocre:

mediocre
[ mee-dee-oh-ker ]
|

adjective
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:
not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

So I think it's 100% fair to say, it's how one personally defines it. "not satisfactory" pretty much sums it up I'd say.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

CTWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3510
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #247 on: April 26, 2019, 03:59:21 PM »
Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday?
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6340
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #248 on: April 26, 2019, 04:02:31 PM »
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

Said this on another thread but the sentiment seems to be that the fire Wojo crowd wants him gone so badly they'd rather tank the season than even have another NCAA appearance. Essentially rooting against MU for the year (maybe two) but still rooting for the program.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 20158
  • Alan Bykowski
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
« Reply #249 on: April 26, 2019, 04:03:43 PM »
Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years.

Worth remembering Jamaal McKay also left that team on the brink of the season start. If things stayed as we expected, his 2014-15 roster would've had McKay, Fischer, Burton, Juan, Shayok, and Cohen in the frontcourt. The backcourt would've been Duane, Derrick, Jajuan Johnson, & Ahmed Hill. It would've been a young group, but there's legit talent and upside.