MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: moomoo on April 24, 2019, 10:48:03 AM

Title: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: moomoo on April 24, 2019, 10:48:03 AM
Marquette is meeting today with potential transfers Alihan Demir (6-9 PF, 14.8 ppg and 6.4 rpg at Drexel) and Akwasi Yeboah (6-6 SF, 16.7 ppg and 7.7 rpg at Stony Brook). Both would be immediately eligible to play next season.  #mubb
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: dw3dw3dw3 on April 24, 2019, 10:50:22 AM
You can really talk yourself into these guys watching highlight clips.

https://vimeo.com/279660614
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 24, 2019, 10:52:50 AM
Watched 30 seconds and I've seen all I need to see.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 10:55:48 AM
I have a couple of snarky comments, but I will save them in case he does transfer to MU.       It would be difficult to refuse an immediately eligible 6'9 player.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Tha Hound on April 24, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
Neither of their stat lines really make me believe they would be anything more than 7-8th man off the bench. Not moving the needle at all. That being said, we need some PF bodies, so...I guess.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 11:01:20 AM
I agree with Doc.

We need to tell guys like this, "Thanks but no thanks" and see if we can get a couple of the 2019ers that Duke, UNC and Kentucky landed to back out of their commitments and join our blueblood program instead.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 11:01:44 AM
4ever

Maybe Wojo's Joe Nathen.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Warrior1969 on April 24, 2019, 11:03:47 AM
I would certainly take him
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 11:13:47 AM
It's Kerry Blackshear and Shakur Juiston! Oh...wait.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:25:07 AM
This Yeboah guy looks interesting.  Looks very athletic and a good rebounder.  Looks to be very consistent from gamelogs, but performed well against the better competition stony brook played.  He'd be my preference of the two.

I would take a chance on the Demir cat too, but I wouldn't expect a ton.  He looks pretty slow footed.  This team is going to be geared to run and gun, and I don't really think adding a slowfooted 4 is going to help much.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:26:37 AM
Per Goodman, Yeboah has already visited Rutgers, and is heading to SMU and TCU this week.  Also talking to Marquette, Clemson and Arkansas. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: BM1090 on April 24, 2019, 11:27:34 AM
Not sure about Demir but Yeboah looks like he could be a good fit. Leading scorer and rebounder for a pretty good Stony Brook team. Good size. Looks to be athletic.

Demir might be a good depth piece but can't see him contributing major minutes.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 24, 2019, 11:29:00 AM
Watched 30 seconds and I've seen all I need to see.

How you say..."Beggar man gots no choices, I'm really a badger fan?"
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 11:29:22 AM
Well good for depth but I don't see much BE ready play there. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:32:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z57WW9qqZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z57WW9qqZk)

Here are some Yeboah highlights.  Definitely think this guy is worth chasing. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 11:35:22 AM
We need to be careful here...remember how excited everyone was when they landed Chartouny?? Well his struggles at the BE level are well documented. Both of these kids played at levels lower than Chartouny did. Bodies is all they would be..not impactful by any stretch.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
We need to be careful here...remember how excited everyone was when they landed Chartouny?? Well his struggles at the BE level are well documented. Both of these kids played at levels lower than Chartouny did. Bodies is all they would be..not impactful by any stretch.


But the fact is they need bodies.  I'm not comfortable with the number of experienced players coming back right now.  If Symir reclassifies, I would be all for that instead of picking up one of these guys.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Tha Hound on April 24, 2019, 11:37:58 AM
We need to be careful here...remember how excited everyone was when they landed Chartouny?? Well his struggles at the BE level are well documented. Both of these kids played at levels lower than Chartouny did. Bodies is all they would be..not impactful by any stretch.

I don't think anyone here is rushing to anoint these guys our best players...
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:38:08 AM
Yeboah put up 22/12 and 21/6 in back to back games @ Providence and @ Rutgers his sophomore season.  Also 15/6 and 15/3 against Michigan State and Maryland that year.

Stony Brook didn't play many high majors this season.  Just @ South Carolina, he went off for 24/11.  Other notable teams included 19/5 @ Rhode Island and 19/3 @ South Florida. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Tha Hound on April 24, 2019, 11:39:47 AM

But the fact is they need bodies.  I'm not comfortable with the number of experienced players coming back right now.  If Symir reclassifies, I would be all for that instead of picking up one of these guys.

You're worried about experienced players but would rather have a high school kid move on a year early to join the team? Scratching my head over here..
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on April 24, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
sign yeboah right now~!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Warrior1969 on April 24, 2019, 11:41:17 AM
Yes we need depth.  Right now two of the 10 roster guys are Ike and Akoono.  To me that means we have eight guys right now.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 11:43:27 AM
I wouldn't expect either to be in our top 5 players next season. Both could give us valuable production off the bench and fill some needs. I'd take one or both.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 11:44:03 AM
You're worried about experienced players but would rather have a high school kid move on a year early to join the team? Scratching my head over here..


So I really have to describe why I would prefer a top 50 freshman prospect to a couple guys who played in the America East?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2019, 11:44:25 AM
We need to be careful here...remember how excited everyone was when they landed Chartouny?? Well his struggles at the BE level are well documented. Both of these kids played at levels lower than Chartouny did. Bodies is all they would be..not impactful by any stretch.

How many college basketball teams have 12 impact players?  It’s a 1-year player and the team needs depth. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 11:44:42 AM

But the fact is they need bodies.  I'm not comfortable with the number of experienced players coming back right now.  If Symir reclassifies, I would be all for that instead of picking up one of these guys.

I'd prefer they bring in guys that are more than just "bodies". I'd much prefer they be impact players. If they aren't going to be major impact guys, I'd rather they bring in, sit out transfers instead. My concern right now is next year and how they can not take too many steps backwards from where they were projected before the Hausers left. They only do that by bringing in impact guys IMO.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 11:45:11 AM
We need to be careful here...remember how excited everyone was when they landed Chartouny?? Well his struggles at the BE level are well documented. Both of these kids played at levels lower than Chartouny did. Bodies is all they would be..not impactful by any stretch.

No, MU really doesn't need to be careful here. They're one-year players who wouldn't be taking scholarships away from potential class of 2020 players or even a sit-out transfer. If they don't work out, no harm done. Gievn the need for depth, taking a flyer on a grad transfer or two makes complete sense.
Some of you have totally reached to point where you're complaining for complaining's sake.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:46:20 AM

So I really have to describe why I would prefer a top 50 freshman prospect to a couple guys who played in the America East?

I'd be pretty shocked in Symir isn't in an MU uniform next season at this point.  I think counting him as 1 of the 3 (maybe 4, depending on what you think about Ike) open spots is probably wise. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: The Hamberdler on April 24, 2019, 11:48:35 AM
Can we fit both?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:48:46 AM
No, MU really doesn't need to be careful here. They're one-year players who wouldn't be taking  scholarships away from potential class of 2020 players or even a sit-out transfer. If they don't work out, no harm done. Gievn the deed for depth, taking a flyer on a grad transfer or two makes complete sense.
Some of you have totally reached to point where you're complaining for complaining's sake.

This.  I see zero harm in bringing in depth pieces.  Theo is a foul machine.  We need guys who can provide some minutes at the 4 and 5.  Yeboah doesn't look like a traditional big, but I am sure he played in the front court with Stony Brook, and would definitely provide some needed depth, rebounding and scoring punch off the bench.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:49:17 AM
Can we fit both?

Yes.  We have three open scholarships. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 11:51:19 AM
No, MU really doesn't need to be careful here. They're one-year players who wouldn't be taking scholarships away from potential class of 2020 players or even a sit-out transfer. If they don't work out, no harm done. Gievn the need for depth, taking a flyer on a grad transfer or two makes complete sense.
Some of you have totally reached to point where you're complaining for complaining's sake.

Well, it depends on how you look at things..sure, they don't hurt anything if they don't work out, but they also don't impact the team much next year either. If you want ANY chance of them living up to the preseason rankings before the Hausers left(that's what I want), then the guys they bring in better be impact guys. I mean isn't that the better option anyway?? You get major production from a player or two, it helps next years team, and you don't tie up scholarships. Seems pretty obvious that's the better route to go.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 24, 2019, 11:51:27 AM
  It would be difficult to refuse an immediately eligible 6'9 player.

Sure it is. You say, "No."

Or, perhaps, one could craft a list of pithy reasons why one ought not go begging.

1. Begging is shameful

2. We are better than that

3. Porsche for a Dodge

4. Highlight films are the same as "Boudoir Glamour Photos"

5. Towson, Elon, Hofstra, Drexel...December fodder

6. They all look good at bar time

7. Desperate times call for desperate measures

8. Nothing left to lose

9. Pride goeth before the fall

10. Demir means Hauser in Turkish
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 11:57:33 AM
Well, it depends on how you look at things..sure, they don't hurt anything if they don't work out, but they also don't impact the team much next year either. If you want ANY chance of them living up to the preseason rankings before the Hausers left(that's what I want), then the guys they bring in better be impact guys. I mean isn't that the better option anyway?? You get major production from a player or two, it helps next years team, and you don't tie up scholarships. Seems pretty obvious that's the better route to go.

Problem is, most grad transfers have a laundry list of high major offers and Marquette is going to have a hard time luring the top 3-5 guys that will be immediately eligible because they'll be fighting against Kentucky, and Arizona, and Kansas, etc.  I am a huge MU fan, but if I were one of those kids, I would probably go play for one of those schools too.  Hell, I sure as crap wouldn't willingly turn down playing somewhere warm for a year in order to hang out in Milwaukee.

What is the harm in taking a chance on a guy like Yeboah?  What happens if Ed gets hurt next season like he has been 75% of the seasons he's been in college basketball?  We're playing 4 guards at all times and 5 when Theo gets into foul trouble.  We need frontcourt depth.  We need guys who can rebound a basketball.  Taking on a guy who will be roleplayer in the frontcourt is not admitting defeat on the expectations MU had 2 weeks ago.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 12:01:05 PM
Well, it depends on how you look at things..sure, they don't hurt anything if they don't work out, but they also don't impact the team much next year either. If you want ANY chance of them living up to the preseason rankings before the Hausers left(that's what I want), then the guys they bring in better be impact guys. I mean isn't that the better option anyway?? You get major production from a player or two, it helps next years team, and you don't tie up scholarships. Seems pretty obvious that's the better route to go.

Who are these impact guys that fill a need and are out there for the taking, i.e. aren't being recruited by Kentucky, UNC, etc.?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 12:05:15 PM
Who are these impact guys that fill a need and are out there for the taking, i.e. aren't being recruited by Kentucky, UNC, etc.?

Rayjon Tucker is who I'd love is to land. From what I've seen it's only been mid level high majors involved. But he had set up multiple visits by the time we were in the market so we may have gotten to the table too late.

It's also possible that the staff is confident in their starting 5 and is looking more for depth
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 12:06:28 PM
Keefe


No is the most powerful word out there. Many folks have trouble saying it.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Rayjon Tucker is who I'd love is to land. From what I've seen it's only been mid level high majors involved. But he had set up multiple visits by the time we were in the market so we may have gotten to the table too late.

It's also possible that the staff is confident in their starting 5 and is looking more for depth

If you consider Kansas, Auburn, North Carolina and West Virginia "mid level high majors", then yah, sure. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 12:08:51 PM
Rayjon Tucker is who I'd love is to land. From what I've seen it's only been mid level high majors involved. But he had set up multiple visits by the time we were in the market so we may have gotten to the table too late.

It's also possible that the staff is confident in their starting 5 and is looking more for depth

That's a problem...you should ALWAYS be looking to get better. I have a feeling with everything that went down Wojo doesn't want to ruffle any more feathers and will automatically just look at "guys". That's being irresponsible in my opinion. Have to at least explore everything.

Rayjon Tucker is one guy, another that I have seen NOTHING about is Shakur Juiston
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 12:10:48 PM
Rayjon Tucker is who I'd love is to land. From what I've seen it's only been mid level high majors involved. But he had set up multiple visits by the time we were in the market so we may have gotten to the table too late.

It's also possible that the staff is confident in their starting 5 and is looking more for depth
According to Goodman, Tucker has visits with Auburn and Memphis upcoming and is drawing interest from UNC and Kansas, among others.
Good player, but don't see adding a scoring wing as a pressing need.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: FruitStandJim on April 24, 2019, 12:12:31 PM
What were everyone's thoughts when Chartouny signed on to play at Marquette. That dude was SLOW
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 12:14:56 PM
According to Goodman, Tucker has visits with Auburn and Memphis upcoming and is drawing interest from UNC and Kansas, among others.
Good player, but don't see adding a scoring wing as a pressing need.

I don't want to replace Sam's 15PPG from within, because not one player will be capable of doing it..I want Sam's 15 PPG replaced by someone from the outside, and I want the pieces that were originally going to be depth(Bailey, Cain etc), to remain just that..depth.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 12:17:17 PM
What were everyone's thoughts when Chartouny signed on to play at Marquette. That dude was SLOW

I think it was generally liked because he was considered a pass first PG with an elite steal rate, and we needed a PG and defensive help.  Obviously it didn't work out, but there were signs that he would be a decent back up PG / change of pace option.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 12:18:20 PM
I don't want to replace Sam's 15PPG from within, because not one player will be capable of doing it..I want Sam's 15 PPG replaced by someone from the outside, and I want the pieces that were originally going to be depth(Bailey, Cain etc), to remain just that..depth.

So adding a guy that plays a position of need and scored in single digits exactly 1 of out 31 games he played id going to hurt.....how exactly?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 24, 2019, 12:19:05 PM
I don't want to replace Sam's 15PPG from within, because not one player will be capable of doing it..I want Sam's 15 PPG replaced by someone from the outside, and I want the pieces that were originally going to be depth(Bailey, Cain etc), to remain just that..depth.

That’s why I don’t want Rayjon Tucker.  He put up superfluous numbers in a bad league on a team that went 10-21
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 12:20:25 PM
If you consider Kansas, Auburn, North Carolina and West Virginia "mid level high majors", then yah, sure.

Maybe I missed something but my impression was that they were kicking the tires but the leaders were teams like south Carolina,  Memphis,  and Auburn. And yes Auburn is a mid level high major
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 12:21:29 PM
guru


Depth is the foundation for long term success. Of course you are right. Depth is how you overcome guys leaving, getting hurt or homesick. We just learned the hard way that we have no depth.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
I don't want to replace Sam's 15PPG from within, because not one player will be capable of doing it..I want Sam's 15 PPG replaced by someone from the outside, and I want the pieces that were originally going to be depth(Bailey, Cain etc), to remain just that..depth.

Why does Sam's 15 ppg have to be replaced by a single player?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 12:25:38 PM
Maybe I missed something but my impression was that they were kicking the tires but the leaders were teams like south Carolina,  Memphis,  and Auburn. And yes Auburn is a mid level high major

He is visiting Kansas in a couple weeks and already visited WVU and Auburn.  Not sure about level of interest from UNC, but they're listed as in on him. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
He is visiting Kansas in a couple weeks and already visited WVU and Auburn.  Not sure about level of interest from UNC, but they're listed as in on him.

I missed the kansas visit thanks. The others are teams we can compete with. But like I said, we weren't in the market until very late
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 24, 2019, 12:34:40 PM
I don't want to replace Sam's 15PPG from within, because not one player will be capable of doing it..I want Sam's 15 PPG replaced by someone from the outside, and I want the pieces that were originally going to be depth(Bailey, Cain etc), to remain just that..depth.

The problem is what you want is probably not a realistic expectation.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lazar's Headband on April 24, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
MU is short on rebounding and these two guys can rebound.   Either one is better than an empty chair but I wouldn't expect either to be a star.

This might also mean Wojo struckout on the elite grad transfers.  Everybody wants a Kerry Blackshear type talent but if you don't gain traction quickly it's best to move on. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 12:49:33 PM
Why does Sam's 15 ppg have to be replaced by a single player?

Because...Sam averaged that..so if you want as little chance of falling off as with Sam, then you need to replace his PPG with one player. Let me explain..The easiest way to look at this is 25PPG/12 REB pg just left...So now instead of two players carrying that load(Sam and Joey), it's likely going to take 3-4 of the current roster to make up for that now, where as had they stayed, those players that will now have to make up for that, whatever they brought next year was just going to be a bonus..now..they will need it.

I was figuring 50PPG between Sam, Markus and Koby next year..3 guys averaging 50+PPG, you lose 15PPG of that...not to mention 6 rebs per game. What I would like to see is a "trade" so to speak, you lose 25PPG and 12 REB PG, you bring in two guys to replace as much of that 25PPG 12REB as you can, and the guys on the current team stay in their current roles..then you go without taking much of a step back IMO.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 12:53:18 PM
Depth is the foundation for long term success. Of course you are right. Depth is how you overcome guys leaving, getting hurt or homesick. We just learned the hard way that we have no depth.


No kidding.  But what should we do moving forward into next year with three scholarship openings?  That's the question that we're trying to answer here.  There aren't a lot of great options available.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 12:54:00 PM
I think it was generally liked because he was considered a pass first PG with an elite steal rate, and we needed a PG and defensive help.  Obviously it didn't work out, but there were signs that he would be a decent back up PG / change of pace option.   


And it didn't harm Marquette in the least.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 24, 2019, 01:08:00 PM
Why does Sam's 15 ppg have to be replaced by a single player?

It's called a threat. Threats draw attention and create opportunity.

The Hausers opened up the floor. We will see the difference once the games start.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
Because...Sam averaged that..so if you want as little chance of falling off as with Sam, then you need to replace his PPG with one player. Let me explain..The easiest way to look at this is 25PPG/12 REB pg just left...So now instead of two players carrying that load(Sam and Joey), it's likely going to take 3-4 of the current roster to make up for that now, where as had they stayed, those players that will now have to make up for that, whatever they brought next year was just going to be a bonus..now..they will need it.

I was figuring 50PPG between Sam, Markus and Koby next year..3 guys averaging 50+PPG, you lose 15PPG of that...not to mention 6 rebs per game. What I would like to see is a "trade" so to speak, you lose 25PPG and 12 REB PG, you bring in two guys to replace as much of that 25PPG 12REB as you can, and the guys on the current team stay in their current roles..then you go without taking much of a step back IMO.

So, when Markus leaves, it's your belief that Marquette must replace him with a 25 ppg player?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:11:19 PM
Fluff


If no great options, take a pass. There is no shame on passing on guys.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 01:13:30 PM
Fluff


If no great options, take a pass. There is no shame on passing on guys.


Even one year players where depth is an issue?

If you are talking a traditional transfer or a late 2019 freshman, I agree with you.  But there is little harm in bringing in a one year rental.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 01:15:15 PM
Because...Sam averaged that..so if you want as little chance of falling off as with Sam, then you need to replace his PPG with one player. Let me explain..The easiest way to look at this is 25PPG/12 REB pg just left...So now instead of two players carrying that load(Sam and Joey), it's likely going to take 3-4 of the current roster to make up for that now, where as had they stayed, those players that will now have to make up for that, whatever they brought next year was just going to be a bonus..now..they will need it.

I was figuring 50PPG between Sam, Markus and Koby next year..3 guys averaging 50+PPG, you lose 15PPG of that...not to mention 6 rebs per game. What I would like to see is a "trade" so to speak, you lose 25PPG and 12 REB PG, you bring in two guys to replace as much of that 25PPG 12REB as you can, and the guys on the current team stay in their current roles..then you go without taking much of a step back IMO.

Quite the analysis right here.


Even one year players where depth is an issue?

If you are talking a traditional transfer or a late 2019 freshman, I agree with you.  But there is little harm in bringing in a one year rental.

Pretty sure several posters around here are mostly just hoping for failure at this point. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: LloydsLegs on April 24, 2019, 01:15:46 PM
guru


Depth is the foundation for long term success. Of course you are right. Depth is how you overcome guys leaving, getting hurt or homesick. We just learned the hard way that we have no depth.

Maybe a small quibble here.  I think MU had depth until the Hausers left.  It was one of the strengths of the team.  It is how the team is still IMO top 25-30 (please do not misread that statement--I am not happy with that) despite losing 2 of its top 5 players.  And, IF the team lands one rotation stretch or true power forward, it could be a top 20 team.

But, currently MU has no depth.  And that is one of the team's biggest weaknesses and IMO the biggest impact of the Hausers leaving (bc the depth has been forced to move up the rotation).

While there are teams that can survive unexpectedly losing 2 of 5 top players and not drop more than 10 spots, it is rare.


Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: KampusFoods on April 24, 2019, 01:16:47 PM
Quite the analysis right here.

Pretty sure several posters around here are mostly just hoping for failure at this point.

Bingo
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:19:24 PM
Lloyds

That was my point. We currently have no depth. Prior to last Monday, decent depth on the squad. Currently, lesser talent on team and diminished depth. That is how programs go in reverse quickly.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 01:22:43 PM
Lloyds

That was my point. We currently have no depth. Prior to last Monday, decent depth on the squad. Currently, lesser talent on team and diminished depth. That is how programs go in reverse quickly.


So you acknowledge there is little depth for next year, but don't want Wojo to fix it.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 01:25:05 PM
guru


Depth is the foundation for long term success. Of course you are right. Depth is how you overcome guys leaving, getting hurt or homesick. We just learned the hard way that we have no depth.
Balderdash.  If no one comes there is enough talent to have a season with a similar record.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:26:51 PM
Fluff

Was the grad transfer this season a fix for the PG situation? Of course he should try and fill in spots, but only with D1 ball players.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: LloydsLegs on April 24, 2019, 01:27:13 PM
Lloyds

That was my point. We currently have no depth. Prior to last Monday, decent depth on the squad. Currently, lesser talent on team and diminished depth. That is how programs go in reverse quickly.

Confirmed.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 01:30:38 PM
Fluff

Was the grad transfer this season a fix for the PG situation? Of course he should try and fill in spots, but only with D1 ball players.

So a player who has done the following against high major or close to high major programs over the past 2 seasons is not a D1 player?

@ Providence: 22 points / 12 boards
@ Rutgers 21/6
@ Michigan State 15/3
vs. Maryland 15/6
@ South Carolina 24/11
@ Rhode Island 19/5
@ South Florida 19/3
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 24, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
Fluff

Was the grad transfer this season a fix for the PG situation? Of course he should try and fill in spots, but only with D1 ball players.

So because JC didn't work out as hoped he shouldn't add any one year rentals this upcoming season when more depth will be needed?  Makes no sense whatsoever. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:37:54 PM
J5

What is outcome of those games and when were stats during the game. Rob Deer would have been the greatest home run hitter in Brewer history if they only kept count of meaningless home runs. How many NFL QB's have padded stats against prevent defense. There is more than just looking at a stat sheet.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:39:11 PM
Vander


He should sign grad transfers this year.....IF THEY CAN PLAY D1 BALL. The kid from Drexel cannot.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 01:41:44 PM
J5

What is outcome of those games and when were stats during the game. Rob Deer would have been the greatest home run hitter in Brewer history if they only kept count of meaningless home runs. How many NFL QB's have padded stats against prevent defense. There is more than just looking at a stat sheet.

Lol, I am just going to move along.  I am not crowning him the BE POY, I am saying he can be a useful bench piece for the frontcourt that lacks depth.  If you're unwilling to see that, then well, I got nothing for you.  Continue to complain about the current coaching staff and roster situation than discuss potential solutions, if you so desire.  To each their own.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 24, 2019, 01:42:19 PM
Vander


He should sign grad transfers this year.....IF THEY CAN PLAY D1 BALL. The kid from Drexel cannot.

And you're sure of this based on the short clip you saw?  Is Drexel not a D1 program? 

At worst, you don't think having an extra body available in case of foul trouble or injury is wise?  What's the harm?

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: DienerTime34 on April 24, 2019, 01:42:45 PM
My expert opinion after watching at least 2 1/2 minutes of highlight videos is that Yeboah is a significantly better player.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 24, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Yeboah would start
Demir would contribute
Sign both these guys and we contend for the BE title and a Top 10 ranking
I have no reservations in saying that.
Our team is so much more athletic than last year. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 01:52:50 PM
J5

I would probably take the Stoney Brook kid. I guess the clip of the Drexel player took me by surprise and jaded my thought process.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 01:54:30 PM
J5

I would probably take the Stoney Brook kid. I guess the clip of the Drexel player took me by surprise and jaded my thought process.

I agree, he didn't really excite at all (and said as much).  I'd still take him over an empty seat, though.  Hopefully we end up with someone a little more dynamic than the Drexel grad. I agree with you there. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Boone on April 24, 2019, 02:12:48 PM
Stony Brook: yes
Drexel: no
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: moomoo on April 24, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Yeboah would start
Demir would contribute
Sign both these guys and we contend for the BE title and a Top 10 ranking
I have no reservations in saying that.
Our team is so much more athletic than last year.

Totally agree Sandkit. 

Yeboah would start with Sacar in the forward positions.  He might be slightly shorter than you would like (6 foot 6 inches), but he's 230 lbs, and will get much stronger with the enhanced training at Marquette.

And keep in mind, Demir is a solid low post player...how many does Marquette currently have with strong pivot moves?  None.  He can provide a nice option in half court sets, which can open up our wings much more.



Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2019, 02:22:39 PM
I wouldn't expect either to be in our top 5 players next season. Both could give us valuable production off the bench and fill some needs. I'd take one or both.

I guess that's good news - at least they won't be the dismal failure/disappointment that was Joe C.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
I guess that's good news - at least they won't be the dismal failure/disappointment that was Joe C.



And they might end up being that.  Everyone would move on anyway.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 02:27:55 PM
I guess that's good news - at least they won't be the dismal failure/disappointment that was Joe C.

They could be disappointments.
They could also be a pleasant surprise the way Christen Cunningham was for Louisville this year. How a player translates from a lower level to a higher level is not an exact science.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 02:30:54 PM
The 18-19 team needed contributions from Joe.  Anything these guys contribute to the 19-20 team is gravy.   Getting nothing from these guys would be like getting  nothing  from Trend Blackledge or Jamil Jones.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 02:39:16 PM
Two obvious answers:  1.   There aren't a ton of elite grad transfers.  2.  MU is late to the party.   All the cute girls already have had a bunch of offers.   
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 24, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Fluff

Was the grad transfer this season a fix for the PG situation? Of course he should try and fill in spots, but only with D1 ball players.

JC was a D1 ballplayer.  So are these guys.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lazar's Headband on April 24, 2019, 02:41:04 PM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In true addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

Because some of us don't post every single thought that comes into our minds on a message board.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 02:41:37 PM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

Homerun post Goose.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 24, 2019, 02:43:42 PM
Tower

Two top bigger names are noted in this thread would be great fits. Blackshear and the kid TAMU noted. Both sound more elite, still available and offers mean nothing.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 02:44:27 PM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

IMHO, Yeboah and Demir are the 4th and 5th best stretch forwards currently available for next season. The 3rd best has had multiple arrests.

So yes,  this may be the best we can get at this point. It's the best most programs can get at this point.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: dgies9156 on April 24, 2019, 02:45:16 PM
It's Kerry Blackshear and Shakur Juiston! Oh...wait.

If we really are a Top 5-10 contender next year, these are the guys that should be interested. Period. To round out a good team and replace the Brothers Hauser, these guys would be folks in which we would not skip a beat.

These are the guys that could be making us ask, "who on earth were the Hausers?"

I know there are as many schools as the Colonel has wings looking at these guys, but the argument in past years Marquette was that great transfers would not come here because we're not ready to compete. We are now and so I hope Coach Wojo has discovered the beautiful sights of Blacksburg, VA.

Oh, and for the record, the Cowboy ain't competing next year. Period.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2019, 02:47:19 PM
JC was a D1 ballplayer.  So are these guys.

Semantics. I could construct a roster with nothing but guys you consider D1 players that would go 0-31. You know what Goose meant - and he's right. If guys can't contribute (or their contributions are negative) who needs 'em?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 02:49:34 PM
Anybody coming to Marquette sees Theo, Ed, 6'8 Bailey, and 6'8 Cain and asks themselves 'how much time is really available?  What would my role be?  Third Big?  15 minutes of 3 and d as a stretch 4?'

Marquette is not recruiting  grad transfers from a position of weakness.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 02:52:54 PM
Juiston is good and would help our rebounding  but he cannot shoot and is coming off a significant injury. Im not sure how he would fit. I'm also not sure if he actually will be immediately eligible. We assume redshirt juniors qualify but not all do. His recruitment has been a lot slower and quieter than you would expect for a player of his skill.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 03:02:47 PM
Semantics. I could construct a roster with nothing but guys you consider D1 players that would go 0-31. You know what Goose meant - and he's right. If guys can't contribute (or their contributions are negative) who needs 'em?

What if the alternative is rolling the dice with potentially only nine scholarship players - four of them frontcourt players -  and pray that nobody gets hurt, despite logging way too many minutes?
That's not a super idea, IMO.
If one of those four gets hurt, I wonder who would be the first to complain that Wojo didn't recruit enough depth?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 03:08:26 PM
10.  Akanno, McEwen, GE, Sacar, Markus, Jamal, BB, Ed, Theo, Ike.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Nukem2 on April 24, 2019, 03:11:40 PM
10.  Akanno, McEwen, GE, Sacar, Markus, Jamal, BB, Ed, Theo, Ike.
Yah, but.....  Will Ike be able to stay healthy and effectively contribute.  That’s a huge IF.  He is a developmental guy who has not played or even really worked out much in 2 years.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 24, 2019, 03:15:22 PM
It is a big if.  I am optimistically hoping for Heldt minutes.  And I equate Akanno to Scar as a freshman.  I acknowledge that the Turkish guy would fill a need for depth and insurance.  But he has to be willing to play that role.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: LAZER on April 24, 2019, 03:20:36 PM
I'm having a very difficult time understanding the downside of taking an immediately eligible player for one year.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Nukem2 on April 24, 2019, 03:20:41 PM
It is a big if.  I am optimistically hoping for Heldt minutes.  And I equate Akanno to Scar as a freshman.  I acknowledge that the Turkish guy would fill a need for depth and I durance.  But he has to be willing to play that role.
Yes re Akanno.  Hard to expect much though he has had a post-HS-grad season away from home at Blair Academy.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 03:20:56 PM
Tower

Two top bigger names are noted in this thread would be great fits. Blackshear and the kid TAMU noted. Both sound more elite, still available and offers mean nothing.

Those guys will literally have offers from more high majors than they won't have offers from, including many blue bloods.  Kentucky, Kansas, Arizona, etc., etc., will be in on these guys to some extent.  Its a pipedream expecting them to come to Milwaukee for a year. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Nukem2 on April 24, 2019, 03:21:53 PM
I'm having a very difficult time understanding the downside of taking an immediately eligible player for one year.
Its really is a need and the staff is obviously looking.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 24, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
What if the alternative is rolling the dice with potentially only nine scholarship players - four of them frontcourt players -  and pray that nobody gets hurt, despite logging way too many minutes?
That's not a super idea, IMO.
If one of those four gets hurt, I wonder who would be the first to complain that Wojo didn't recruit enough depth?

That’s what I’ve been saying since the news. Our 1st five is fine. Depth will be the issue.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 03:31:57 PM
I don't know why we just don't get Vernon Carey to decommit from Duke, Khalil Whitney to decommit from Kentucky and Cole Anthony to decommit from North Carolina, and all come to Marquette so we can win a national title.

Why are we messing with grad transfer retreads? They'll all suck, just like Matt Mooney did for Texas Tech last season. Steal away some of the top-10 recruits. Those schools have so much talent, they won't even mind, and I'm sure the NCAA would say it's OK.

But no ... Wojo will just settle for guys Marquette might actually be able to sign. Pathetic.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Waldo Jeffers on April 24, 2019, 03:32:12 PM
Tower

Two top bigger names are noted in this thread would be great fits. Blackshear and the kid TAMU noted. Both sound more elite, still available and offers mean nothing.

Well Blackshear just visited with Calipari and Izzo is kicking the tires now and MSU is close to preseason #1 and coming off another FF.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
I don't know why we just don't get Vernon Carey to decommit from Duke, Khalil Whitney to decommit from Kentucky and Cole Anthony to decommit from North Carolina, and all come to Marquette so we can win a national title.

Why are we messing with grad transfer retreads? They'll all suck, just like Matt Mooney did for Texas Tech last season. Steal away some of the top-10 recruits. Those schools have so much talent, they won't even mind, and I'm sure the NCAA would say it's OK.

But no ... Wojo will just settle for guys Marquette might actually be able to sign. Pathetic.

The guru way!!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
I'm having a very difficult time understanding the downside of taking an immediately eligible player for one year.

There is none. Some people just want to complain.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Nukem2 on April 24, 2019, 04:21:59 PM
MU has now posted the current 19-20 roster.  Walk-o s Buddy Jafee and Mike Lelito are not listed.  Tommy Gardiner is  listed.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 04:22:15 PM
The guru way!!

Listen...Wojo f'd up next years team by allowing the Hausers to leave when it very easily could have been fixed...the expectations(preseason top 10 etc), CANNOT change now because them leaving is on him. So he needs to do whatever it takes to make sure those expectations can be upheld. I have news for you...all of you..plugging Bailey and Cain in for Joey and Sam isn't going to make up for 25PPG/12 Rebounds per game that are leaving. So now, because those two become starters(hypothetically), and you're not getting the same production you would have gotten from the two starters that left..you have to have others fill in the rest of the production...so now you are essentially using 3-4 guys to fill in for the 25/12 that's leaving. By doing that, you are taking guys that would have been role players next year and anything they gave you was ab onus, and now they have to become starters and anything they give you will be NECESSARY.

So now that they are starters(and not at the same level as the one's that left), you have to find guys to fill their roles as back ups, therefore you eat into what would have been depth. So sure..sign the kid from Stony Brook, he can replace some of the depth that you are losing by now having to make depth guys starters. But there's still the gaping hole of a problem as to how you make up for 25/12 walking out that door. Two guys accounted for that before, you need two guys to cover that gap..so the best way to accomplish that is to bring in two guys from the outside that are legit proven guys..easier said then done, sure, but so what?? Wojo made this mess, he needs to fix it.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 04:22:53 PM
I have an idea. Wojo should just sign the top 2 or 3 grad transfers and then just sign the top 3 or 4 recruits for 2020.

Easy peasy.

That's why they call me Mr. Problem Solver!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 04:25:47 PM
Listen...Wojo f'd up next years team by allowing the Hausers to leave when it very easily could have been fixed...the expectations(preseason top 10 etc), CANNOT change now because them leaving is on him. So he needs to do whatever it takes to make sure those expectations can be upheld. I have news for you...all of you..plugging Bailey and Cain in for Joey and Sam isn't going to make up for 25PPG/12 Rebounds per game that are leaving. So now, because those two become starters(hypothetically), and you're not getting the same production you would have gotten from the two starters that left..you have to have others fill in the rest of the production...so now you are essentially using 3-4 guys to fill in for the 25/12 that's leaving. By doing that, you are taking guys that would have been role players next year and anything they gave you was ab onus, and now they have to become starters and anything they give you will be NECESSARY.

So now that they are starters(and not at the same level as the one's that left), you have to find guys to fill their roles as back ups, therefore you eat into what would have been depth. So sure..sign the kid from Stony Brook, he can replace some of the depth that you are losing by now having to make depth guys starters. But there's still the gaping hole of a problem as to how you make up for 25/12 walking out that door. Two guys accounted for that before, you need two guys to cover that gap..so the best way to accomplish that is to bring in two guys from the outside that are legit proven guys..easier said then done, sure, but so what?? Wojo made this mess, he needs to fix it.


I'm pretty sure Wojo is trying to sign the best players he can. It's not like he's choosing Lehigh dude over Blackshear. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 04:29:30 PM
MU has now posted the current 19-20 roster.  Walk-o s Buddy Jafee and Mike Lelito are not listed.  Tommy Gardiner is  listed.

Interesting.  I have noticed their lack of attendance in the many pictures posted lately.  Being a walk on would suck, I can't say I blame them for moving on. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 04:30:00 PM

I'm pretty sure Wojo is trying to sign the best players he can. It's not like he's choosing Lehigh dude over Blackshear.

Nope. Wojo reads Scoop and he sees that guru and a few others want the best players. Normally, he'd want the best players, too, but he wants to screw over our most "competitive" fans, so he purposely is not pursuing anybody good, either as a grad transfer or a regular transfer or a 2020-21 freshman.

My source in the athletic office said that Wojo told him, "I'll show those Scoopers!"
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2019, 04:30:55 PM
What if the alternative is rolling the dice with potentially only nine scholarship players - four of them frontcourt players -  and pray that nobody gets hurt, despite logging way too many minutes?
That's not a super idea, IMO.
If one of those four gets hurt, I wonder who would be the first to complain that Wojo didn't recruit enough depth?

Thought we had 5. Did another guy transfer?

If they can help, bring 'em in. If they're going to end up being essentially the quality of preferred walk ons, meh.

I also wonder, but I don't waste a lot of time on it. Guess we'll find out if and when it happens.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 04:32:05 PM
Listen...Wojo f'd up next years team by allowing the Hausers to leave when it very easily could have been fixed...the expectations(preseason top 10 etc), CANNOT change now because them leaving is on him. So he needs to do whatever it takes to make sure those expectations can be upheld. I have news for you...all of you..plugging Bailey and Cain in for Joey and Sam isn't going to make up for 25PPG/12 Rebounds per game that are leaving. So now, because those two become starters(hypothetically), and you're not getting the same production you would have gotten from the two starters that left..you have to have others fill in the rest of the production...so now you are essentially using 3-4 guys to fill in for the 25/12 that's leaving. By doing that, you are taking guys that would have been role players next year and anything they gave you was ab onus, and now they have to become starters and anything they give you will be NECESSARY.

So now that they are starters(and not at the same level as the one's that left), you have to find guys to fill their roles as back ups, therefore you eat into what would have been depth. So sure..sign the kid from Stony Brook, he can replace some of the depth that you are losing by now having to make depth guys starters. But there's still the gaping hole of a problem as to how you make up for 25/12 walking out that door. Two guys accounted for that before, you need two guys to cover that gap..so the best way to accomplish that is to bring in two guys from the outside that are legit proven guys..easier said then done, sure, but so what?? Wojo made this mess, he needs to fix it.

TLDR.

The difference between you (and a few others) and most everyone else on this board is realism.  Marquette is very nice program and will have a nice team next year.  We are not going to out-recruit blue bloods.  We can't just replace Sam and Joey with a couple burger boys and call it good.  We can't just replace them with the cream of the crop grad transfers because guess what - the blue bloods will be after them too. 

98/100 guys are picking Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, etc., etc., over MU.  The sooner you come to grips with that, that more enjoyable your life will be. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: The Hamberdler on April 24, 2019, 04:32:57 PM
Nope. Wojo reads Scoop and he sees that guru and a few others want the best players. Normally, he'd want the best players, too, but he wants to screw over our most "competitive" fans, so he purposely is not pursuing anybody good, either as a grad transfer or a regular transfer or a 2020-21 freshman.

My source in the athletic office said that Wojo told him, "I'll show those Scoopers!"

The amount of attention this one irrational poster gets on this board is totally bizarre. You are a smart guy, you realize that you aren't going to fix him by replying to his every post like this.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 24, 2019, 04:35:07 PM
Thought we had 5. Did another guy transfer?

If they can help, bring 'em in. If they're going to end up being essentially the quality of preferred walk ons, meh.

I also wonder, but I don't waste a lot of time on it. Guess we'll find out if and when it happens.

I'm counting Bailey, Theo, Morrow and Cain.
I don't think we can count on Ike at this time. Hoping for the best and all, but better off preparing for the worst, you know?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 04:36:01 PM
I'm counting Bailey, Theo, Morrow and Cain.
I don't think we can count on Ike at this time. Hoping for the best and all, but better off preparing for the worst, you know?

Bailey and Cain are wings, and definitely not front court players.  Can they play there?  Sure.  But they're not PF.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2019, 04:43:26 PM
I'm counting Bailey, Theo, Morrow and Cain.
I don't think we can count on Ike at this time. Hoping for the best and all, but better off preparing for the worst, you know?

Fair
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 04:54:54 PM
TLDR.

The difference between you (and a few others) and most everyone else on this board is realism.  Marquette is very nice program and will have a nice team next year.  We are not going to out-recruit blue bloods.  We can't just replace Sam and Joey with a couple burger boys and call it good.  We can't just replace them with the cream of the crop grad transfers because guess what - the blue bloods will be after them too. 

98/100 guys are picking Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, etc., etc., over MU.  The sooner you come to grips with that, that more enjoyable your life will be.

Alright...Blackshear i get...but explain to me then about a guy like Shakur Juiston from UNLV.. Only played 8 games last year(he got hurt), but have seen NOTHING on him...he's a reasonable get for MU. Have they even contacted him?? Has anyone?? Last year in 8 games he averaged 10.8/8.8. The year before that in a full season he AVERAGED a dbl dbl-14.6/10. In 17/18 he had rebounding games of: 10,12,18,19,16,13, 10, 12, 14,11,12,14,12,10,13,14,12. Only had 6 games when he didn't score in double figures all year. You're telling me he wouldn't replace Sam's production and then some??

I think the problem with Wojo is now, is...he is in such a bad position that he doesn't want to do anything to ruffle any more feathers so he won't bring in a guy that could start at one of the forward spots, so not to upset Baley/Cain whoever. That's irresponsible.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 24, 2019, 05:06:01 PM
Alright...Blackshear i get...but explain to me then about a guy like Shakur Juiston from UNLV.. Only played 8 games last year(he got hurt), but have seen NOTHING on him...he's a reasonable get for MU. Have they even contacted him?? Has anyone?? Last year in 8 games he averaged 10.8/8.8. The year before that in a full season he AVERAGED a dbl dbl-14.6/10. In 17/18 he had rebounding games of: 10,12,18,19,16,13, 10, 12, 14,11,12,14,12,10,13,14,12. Only had 6 games when he didn't score in double figures all year. You're telling me he wouldn't replace Sam's production and then some??

I think the problem with Wojo is now, is...he is in such a bad position that he doesn't want to do anything to ruffle any more feathers so he won't bring in a guy that could start at one of the forward spots, so not to upset Baley/Cain whoever. That's irresponsible.

Who knows what the deal with Juiston is.  Isn’t there some talk that he might not actually be immediately eligible? Is it he also more of a back to the basket big that may not play as well with Theo and Ed?  He also spent the last several years in Las Vegas Nevada maybe doesn’t want to spend his winter in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. In any event, there are no schools currently tied to him, so maybe we should hold off judgment until that happens.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 24, 2019, 05:13:21 PM
TLDR.

98/100 guys are picking Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, etc., etc., over MU.  The sooner you come to grips with that, that more enjoyable your life will be.
This is the truth. As we all know now, they pay players. Hard to beat $100k payday with only great facilities, great fans and a great conference. But 'Nova has done it, so it is possible, just very difficult.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 24, 2019, 05:17:33 PM
Alright...Blackshear i get...but explain to me then about a guy like Shakur Juiston from UNLV.. Only played 8 games last year(he got hurt), but have seen NOTHING on him...he's a reasonable get for MU. Have they even contacted him?? Has anyone?? Last year in 8 games he averaged 10.8/8.8. The year before that in a full season he AVERAGED a dbl dbl-14.6/10. In 17/18 he had rebounding games of: 10,12,18,19,16,13, 10, 12, 14,11,12,14,12,10,13,14,12. Only had 6 games when he didn't score in double figures all year. You're telling me he wouldn't replace Sam's production and then some??

I think the problem with Wojo is now, is...he is in such a bad position that he doesn't want to do anything to ruffle any more feathers so he won't bring in a guy that could start at one of the forward spots, so not to upset Baley/Cain whoever. That's irresponsible.

The second paragraph sounds like you’re just makin stuff up.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on April 24, 2019, 05:51:11 PM
Alright...Blackshear i get...but explain to me then about a guy like Shakur Juiston from UNLV.. Only played 8 games last year(he got hurt), but have seen NOTHING on him...he's a reasonable get for MU. Have they even contacted him?? Has anyone?? Last year in 8 games he averaged 10.8/8.8. The year before that in a full season he AVERAGED a dbl dbl-14.6/10. In 17/18 he had rebounding games of: 10,12,18,19,16,13, 10, 12, 14,11,12,14,12,10,13,14,12. Only had 6 games when he didn't score in double figures all year. You're telling me he wouldn't replace Sam's production and then some??

I think the problem with Wojo is now, is...he is in such a bad position that he doesn't want to do anything to ruffle any more feathers so he won't bring in a guy that could start at one of the forward spots, so not to upset Baley/Cain whoever. That's irresponsible.
Does the UNLV guy have any range or is he just an interior/banger type?  In the absence of a true star, Wojo needs to bring complementary pieces, not guys that play the same way as guys we already have.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: awilhelmscream on April 24, 2019, 05:54:23 PM
Listen...Wojo f'd up next years team by allowing the Hausers to leave when it very easily could have been fixed...the expectations(preseason top 10 etc), CANNOT change now because them leaving is on him. So he needs to do whatever it takes to make sure those expectations can be upheld. I have news for you...all of you..plugging Bailey and Cain in for Joey and Sam isn't going to make up for 25PPG/12 Rebounds per game that are leaving. So now, because those two become starters(hypothetically), and you're not getting the same production you would have gotten from the two starters that left..you have to have others fill in the rest of the production...so now you are essentially using 3-4 guys to fill in for the 25/12 that's leaving. By doing that, you are taking guys that would have been role players next year and anything they gave you was ab onus, and now they have to become starters and anything they give you will be NECESSARY.

So now that they are starters(and not at the same level as the one's that left), you have to find guys to fill their roles as back ups, therefore you eat into what would have been depth. So sure..sign the kid from Stony Brook, he can replace some of the depth that you are losing by now having to make depth guys starters. But there's still the gaping hole of a problem as to how you make up for 25/12 walking out that door. Two guys accounted for that before, you need two guys to cover that gap..so the best way to accomplish that is to bring in two guys from the outside that are legit proven guys..easier said then done, sure, but so what?? Wojo made this mess, he needs to fix it.

Hold up. The Hausers left?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 06:06:29 PM
Does the UNLV guy have any range or is he just an interior/banger type?  In the absence of a true star, Wojo needs to bring complementary pieces, not guys that play the same way as guys we already have.

I don't get the Juiston thought at all unless he's a sit out player. We already have two centers with no offense outside 4 feet. What, will Theo, Ed, & Shakar all play 13-14 mpg? I can't see any of them playing together. He isn't a good fit at all.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 06:42:55 PM
I don't get the Juiston thought at all unless he's a sit out player. We already have two centers with no offense outside 4 feet. What, will Theo, Ed, & Shakar all play 13-14 mpg? I can't see any of them playing together. He isn't a good fit at all.

Except Juiston can step out to 15 feet...he's more than just a back to he basket guy like Theo/ED

In 2017-2018 he shot 58-127 on jump shots...45.7%

He was the #1 ranked JUCO prospect in the country when he committed to UNLV...he played at Hutchinson(sound familiar).

He's a better scorer and a better rebounder then Theo or Ed, and like I said...he actually has some range. What is not to like??
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: BallBoy on April 24, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
Semantics. I could construct a roster with nothing but guys you consider D1 players that would go 0-31. You know what Goose meant - and he's right. If guys can't contribute (or their contributions are negative) who needs 'em?

You can’t win with nothing but you can win with something. JC added value just not enough but gave us a better chance to win without JC and no Markus.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: #UnleashCain on April 24, 2019, 07:00:41 PM
I don't get the Juiston thought at all unless he's a sit out player. We already have two centers with no offense outside 4 feet. What, will Theo, Ed, & Shakar all play 13-14 mpg? I can't see any of them playing together. He isn't a good fit at all.

With the way they foul. That might work.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: avid1010 on April 24, 2019, 08:05:16 PM
[quote author=JamilJaeJamailJrJuan link=topic=58686.msg1128058#msg112805

98/100 guys are picking Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, etc., etc., over MU.  The sooner you come to grips with that, that more enjoyable your life will be.
[/quote]
We had a pretty close one in Joey...
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 08:11:32 PM
The amount of attention this one irrational poster gets on this board is totally bizarre. You are a smart guy, you realize that you aren't going to fix him by replying to his every post like this.

Don't be trying to take away our fun!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 24, 2019, 09:30:09 PM
IMHO, Yeboah and Demir are the 4th and 5th best stretch forwards currently available for next season. The 3rd best has had multiple arrests.

So yes,  this may be the best we can get at this point. It's the best most programs can get at this point.
What is the arrest kids name? He could be a real prospect.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 09:30:37 PM
Except Juiston can step out to 15 feet...he's more than just a back to he basket guy like Theo/ED

In 2017-2018 he shot 58-127 on jump shots...45.7%

He was the #1 ranked JUCO prospect in the country when he committed to UNLV...he played at Hutchinson(sound familiar).

He's a better scorer and a better rebounder then Theo or Ed, and like I said...he actually has some range. What is not to like??

Those 58 jump shots....most were well inside 15 feet....and they represented less than 25% of the shots he took...the rest of which were around the rim. Juiston is not a floor stretcher. He's a good player, but I don't see him as a fit for what Marquette needs. Also as I mentioned before, I'm not sure it's been confirmed that Juiston is actually immediately eligible. We tend to assume all redshirt juniors are immediately eligible but they actually have to qualify.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 09:39:47 PM
Those 58 jump shots....most were well inside 15 feet....and they represented less than 25% of the shots he took...the rest of which were around the rim. Juiston is not a floor stretcher. He's a good player, but I don't see him as a fit for what Marquette needs. Also as I mentioned before, I'm not sure it's been confirmed that Juiston is actually immediately eligible. We tend to assume all redshirt juniors are immediately eligible but they actually have to qualify.

Have you seen him play?? Did you count each jump shot and where it was taken?? I never said he was a floor stretcher...I consider a "floor stretcher" a guy that can shoot it from deep. That's not him. But he DOES have a jump shot, whether it's 8 ft, 10 ft, 12ft, it's further away from the basket then Ed or Theo can go. That's useful.

People want Yeboah and would be excited about that, and he is much more of an around the basket player then Juiston even is. He is MUCH more like Theo and Ed, but people would like to bring him in and not Juiston?? I will tell you why that is...the ONLY reason I can think of is because Juiston would HAVE to be a starter(he'd ne one of MU's 5 best players), and people don't want him to come in and take a current players starting spot even those he's better then Cain, or Bailey, or Ed or Theo. That males ZERO sense to me. It's the ONLY reason I can think of that people would like to bring in Yeboah over Juiston becauset hey don't want a current player to lose his starting spot. That's nonsense.

Yes, he's eligible, he is on every grad transfer list I have seen. Expected to get a medical hardship for this last year
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 10:32:14 PM
Have you seen him play?? Did you count each jump shot and where it was taken?? I never said he was a floor stretcher...I consider a "floor stretcher" a guy that can shoot it from deep. That's not him. But he DOES have a jump shot, whether it's 8 ft, 10 ft, 12ft, it's further away from the basket then Ed or Theo can go. That's useful.

People want Yeboah and would be excited about that, and he is much more of an around the basket player then Juiston even is. He is MUCH more like Theo and Ed, but people would like to bring him in and not Juiston?? I will tell you why that is...the ONLY reason I can think of is because Juiston would HAVE to be a starter(he'd ne one of MU's 5 best players), and people don't want him to come in and take a current players starting spot even those he's better then Cain, or Bailey, or Ed or Theo. That males ZERO sense to me. It's the ONLY reason I can think of that people would like to bring in Yeboah over Juiston becauset hey don't want a current player to lose his starting spot. That's nonsense.

Yes, he's eligible, he is on every grad transfer list I have seen. Expected to get a medical hardship for this last year

I have seen him play. I didn't count all of them but most of his work is done close to the basket. Yes, he has a jump shot, it's not particularly reliable and the range is very limited. I don't think he fits what we need.

The staff has no qualms about bringing in a starting level player. There aren't many on the grad transfer market that would start for us.

Yeboah does have some excellent around the basket moves. He scored 89 points out of post ups in 89 attempts....essentially scoring a bucket every other time he posted up. That is NOT where he works primarily. He scored 182 points last season off of spot up jump shots. He's not an elite floor spacer but he has made 170 3Ps in the past three years with a career accuracy of around 34%. Put him in a system where he is the 4th or 5th scoring option and I could see that average getting north of 35%, more than enough to keep defenses honest. Juistion can't do that. So, no Yeboah is not "more of an around the basket player than Juiston is."

When Juiston first came out, one of the Vegas beat writers said it was unclear if he was immediately eligible. He is on all the grad transfer lists but I know from experience that unless a more local source makes it widely known that he is not eligible for a grad transfer, these lists assume all four year players (RSJRs or SRs) are immediately eligible. Some players need more than 4 years to graduate. I've been doing the paint touches list for the past 4 or 5 years and have run into several occasions every year where a player was on all the lists but then had to be taken off because they weren't actually eligible. Often players who spent two years at JUCOs fall into this category. This combined with how oddly silent Juiston's camp has been has made me wonder. Could be something else, could be Juiston is very tight lipped, but just wondering.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 10:41:45 PM
Juiston tweeted that he won't be announcing until after he graduates. Might be why there really hasn't been any info yet.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 24, 2019, 10:43:20 PM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

Goose when I read this post earlier I was right with you...why aren’t we aiming higher? When I watched these guys’ highlites, i really feel like sometimes you go after guys that fit into how you play. Watching the Turkish kid, tell me Butler wouldn’t be all over a post prospect like him...bulky, really crafty inside and durable. The Stony Brook guy can play at a high speed, good passer, decent perimeter game, yet with enough size and definition to attack the hoop. These guys actually would both fit right away, and I’m truly not certain if we landed both if our drop-off would be much at all from pre-Hausergate.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Loose Cannon on April 24, 2019, 11:10:16 PM
I'm having a very difficult time understanding the downside of taking an immediately eligible player for one year.

I'm with ya, better to have something than nothin.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 24, 2019, 11:35:42 PM
I have seen him play. I didn't count all of them but most of his work is done close to the basket. Yes, he has a jump shot, it's not particularly reliable and the range is very limited. I don't think he fits what we need.

The staff has no qualms about bringing in a starting level player. There aren't many on the grad transfer market that would start for us.

Yeboah does have some excellent around the basket moves. He scored 89 points out of post ups in 89 attempts....essentially scoring a bucket every other time he posted up. That is NOT where he works primarily. He scored 182 points last season off of spot up jump shots. He's not an elite floor spacer but he has made 170 3Ps in the past three years with a career accuracy of around 34%. Put him in a system where he is the 4th or 5th scoring option and I could see that average getting north of 35%, more than enough to keep defenses honest. Juistion can't do that. So, no Yeboah is not "more of an around the basket player than Juiston is."

When Juiston first came out, one of the Vegas beat writers said it was unclear if he was immediately eligible. He is on all the grad transfer lists but I know from experience that unless a more local source makes it widely known that he is not eligible for a grad transfer, these lists assume all four year players (RSJRs or SRs) are immediately eligible. Some players need more than 4 years to graduate. I've been doing the paint touches list for the past 4 or 5 years and have run into several occasions every year where a player was on all the lists but then had to be taken off because they weren't actually eligible. Often players who spent two years at JUCOs fall into this category. This combined with how oddly silent Juiston's camp has been has made me wonder. Could be something else, could be Juiston is very tight lipped, but just wondering.

Look..i don't much care about where a guy can score from as long as he can score..consistently..Theo and Ed haven't shown that they can..yet. Juiston is a proven scorer..Yes I am very worried about how the offense is going to score next year when you remove a 15ppg scorer from the equation..It's easy on the surface to say Koby will take up some of that slack..and that's fine..I like him.. alot. But the problem with saying that is..with Sam there..whatever Koby and the others brought was just going to be a huge bonus and a big part of why they were a preseason top 10 team..all 5 starters were back in addition to Koby and Greg.

I had figured next year between Koby, Markus and Sam they would combine for 50ppg..however that split up between those 3. Let's say they had a steady 9 player rotation(for arguments sake). And lets say they averaged 80ppg as a team..with those three combining for 50+ppg, that means you only needed 30 ppg from the remaining 6 guys to get to that 80..thats a miniscule 5ppg per player..VERY reasonable..now you're removing a 15 ppg scorer..and using that same 5ppg per player average..now you need 3 players to make up the scoring average that one player is leaving behind. So now that means Koby & Markus combine for 35..3 more players combine for the missing 15 to get us back to the original 50 ppg..only instead of 3 guys..its now taking 6 of the 9 rotation guys..so to get to the 80 ppg in this scenario..the 3 remaining rotation players need to average 10ppg..thats an impossible ask. No matter how you slice it..the math doesnt work nearly as good now as it was going to..dont you agree?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 24, 2019, 11:48:20 PM
Guru, there is no situation, no combination of immediately eligible players, where Marquette will be projected to be as good as or better than they were with the Hausers. That ship has sailed. Sam is better than anyone on the grad transfer list. Joey is better than most. Even if we landed Blackshear and Juiston we would still be projected to be worse than when we had the Hausers. That is reality.

If Marquette is going to be as good as they expected to be pre-Hausers, they will have to outperform their projections on paper. Fortunately, that's why basketball is played on the court and not on paper.

Back to the grad transfers, I'm liking this Yeboah kid more and more. Ran the defensive numbers on him....they are niiiiiice. His defense is actually better than his offense and his offense is pretty darn good. Question will be how he translates his game to the high major level. A 6'6" 235 lbs, I could very easily see him winning the battle for starting PF.

Demir, defense is even worse than I would have guessed. As others have said, flat footed and slow. Still don't mind him as a depth pick up, but I would be surprised if he ended up being more than a 7th or 8th player in the rotation.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MUHoopsFan2 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:06 AM
Guru, there is no situation, no combination of immediately eligible players, where Marquette will be projected to be as good as or better than they were with the Hausers. That ship has sailed. Sam is better than anyone on the grad transfer list. Joey is better than most. Even if we landed Blackshear and Juiston we would still be projected to be worse than when we had the Hausers. That is reality.

If Marquette is going to be as good as they expected to be pre-Hausers, they will have to outperform their projections on paper. Fortunately, that's why basketball is played on the court and not on paper.

Back to the grad transfers, I'm liking this Yeboah kid more and more. Ran the defensive numbers on him....they are niiiiiice. His defense is actually better than his offense and his offense is pretty darn good. Question will be how he translates his game to the high major level. A 6'6" 235 lbs, I could very easily see him winning the battle for starting PF.

Demir, defense is even worse than I would have guessed. As others have said, flat footed and slow. Still don't mind him as a depth pick up, but I would be surprised if he ended up being more than a 7th or 8th player in the rotation.
You contradicted yourself. It is not about being "better" it is about being different. They will have to win in a different way...

And they can match their record of last year or more. The emphasis and style in which that is done will be completely different without the Hauser's.

And don't nit-pick about the 'bigs' not being able to shoot. That is irrelevant. Feed the post and play and cut and do some action through them...screen and lobs, anything.

It will be more about the cohesion, and chemistry and compatiblity of the collection of players Coach Wojo can have on the floor and find out what works.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 25, 2019, 01:07:33 AM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

Very well said, Goose.

The casual acceptance of mediocrity is bizarre. I guess that's why there is a market for things like Spam and Busch Beer in this world.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 25, 2019, 01:51:06 AM
The amount of attention this one irrational poster gets on this board is totally bizarre. You are a smart guy, you realize that you aren't going to fix him by replying to his every post like this.

Unfortunately it’s not just that poster but multiple “insiders” who went to MU during the Al years he’s referring to as well.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 25, 2019, 02:05:18 AM
Truthfully, my biggest issue, is this really the best MU can get or are we just taking guys? I would have to think a potential top ten team, with NPOY on it, would be able to attract better than these two guys. In addition, it seems like 90% of this site is not wondering why we aren't going for better guys or why better guys are not interested.

A potential top ten team huh?  This part of your post seems a little disingenuous unless you are all in like Sand Knit.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: The Hamberdler on April 25, 2019, 06:13:40 AM
Unfortunately it’s not just that poster but multiple “insiders” who went to MU during the Al years he’s referring to as well.

Was just making a general point, if you could look at all of the posts on this forum, probably 10ish% of them are either replying directly to this poster or are entirely about him in some way. Thousands of these kinds of posts, most likely, each trying to teach rationality and reason... None successful in anything but making it worse.

I imagine it would be satisfying to tell Stephen A. Smith how wrong he is every time he says something ridiculous, but since we can't do that, I guess the next-most-fun thing is to find irrational people on the internet to obsess over...
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: lawdog77 on April 25, 2019, 06:42:41 AM
Very well said, Goose.

The casual acceptance of mediocrity is bizarre. I guess that's why there is a market for things like Spam and Busch Beer in this world.
1. Potential Top 10 team after losing Larry Bird II and Larry Bird III, pretty good job by the Coach, I must say.
2. Neither you nor I  actually know for certain which transfers we are recruiting
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: WithoutBias on April 25, 2019, 06:44:03 AM
keefer is right. only posters with true inside knowledge of the complete chaos that is the mubb program should be posting anything. and if you have true inside knowledge you would not be posting anything positive or hoping players improve because that will never happen with woj at the helm.

for someone who climbs on the molehill top to scream and let everyone know how tough he is at every chance he gets he sure is a chicken little baby.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2019, 07:06:22 AM
Guru, there is no situation, no combination of immediately eligible players, where Marquette will be projected to be as good as or better than they were with the Hausers. That ship has sailed. Sam is better than anyone on the grad transfer list. Joey is better than most. Even if we landed Blackshear and Juiston we would still be projected to be worse than when we had the Hausers. That is reality.

If Marquette is going to be as good as they expected to be pre-Hausers, they will have to outperform their projections on paper. Fortunately, that's why basketball is played on the court and not on paper.

Back to the grad transfers, I'm liking this Yeboah kid more and more. Ran the defensive numbers on him....they are niiiiiice. His defense is actually better than his offense and his offense is pretty darn good. Question will be how he translates his game to the high major level. A 6'6" 235 lbs, I could very easily see him winning the battle for starting PF.

Demir, defense is even worse than I would have guessed. As others have said, flat footed and slow. Still don't mind him as a depth pick up, but I would be surprised if he ended up being more than a 7th or 8th player in the rotation.

First of all, I call BS...it's not going to happen, but if MU landed Blackshear and Juiston they would be projected to be as good. Second, even if that isn't attainable, you HAVE to try to get as close to that as possible.That means getting the best players you possibly can. It's irresponsible to do otherwise.

Third...Jon is right, the acceptance of mediocrity on this board is incredible and quite frankly, it wears me out. I just don't get it, at all.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 25, 2019, 07:17:11 AM
First of all, I call BS...it's not going to happen, but if MU landed Blackshear and Juiston they would be projected to be as good. Second, even if that isn't attainable, you HAVE to try to get as close to that as possible.That means getting the best players you possibly can. It's irresponsible to do otherwise.

Third...Jon is right, the acceptance of mediocrity on this board is incredible and quite frankly, it wears me out. I just don't get it, at all.

Who says they aren’t kicking the tires on him?   There is little to no news on him.  But keep complaining about him. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2019, 07:30:48 AM
the acceptance of mediocrity on this board is incredible and quite frankly, it wears me out. I just don't get it, at all.

There's a difference between accepting mediocrity & accepting reality. Reality is this team likely won't be as good as was expected 2 weeks ago. And if it is, it will be because the team is coached up.

Better defense, a faster pace, creating more live ball turnovers, that's the formula for meeting expectations. It isn't finding two Hauser caliber starters. That's just not reality.

Can Wojo adapt to the personnel he left himself with and attain the results we've been expecting for 6 years? If so, great, he's earned his place. If not, then in my opinion, time to move on.

FBOW coaching will be the determinant in next year's success or lack thereof.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: hairy worthen on April 25, 2019, 07:41:46 AM
Very well said, Goose.

The casual acceptance of mediocrity is bizarre. I guess that's why there is a market for things like Spam and Busch Beer in this world.
It’s more than settling for mediocrity. It’s coming up with crazy convoluted statistics to try and prove everything is ok. It’s rationalizing losing two of the best players on the team as a good thing and saying MU will be quicker and better defensively. It’s saying everything is ok because we can easily replace the points and rebounds with several lesser players. Claiming that the Hauser’s were too slow and transfers happen all the time.  Absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying the world is coming to an end either and I hope the coaches can hold it together, but face the reality and gravity of the situation.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 25, 2019, 07:44:01 AM
First of all, I call BS...it's not going to happen, but if MU landed Blackshear and Juiston they would be projected to be as good. Second, even if that isn't attainable, you HAVE to try to get as close to that as possible.That means getting the best players you possibly can. It's irresponsible to do otherwise.

Third...Jon is right, the acceptance of mediocrity on this board is incredible and quite frankly, it wears me out. I just don't get it, at all.

First, you can call BS all you want but it doesn't make it true. Sam is better than Blackshear and Joey is either almost or as good as Juiston and both fit our needs better than either of those grad transfers do.

Second, who says they aren't trying? The only list for Blackshear has been a quote from his dad "name a school and they've reached out" and there's been no list for Juiston. Blackshear is testing the NBA waters first and Juiston has said he's waiting until after he graduates to do anything. Do you think it is wise for the staff to wait and do nothing in the mean time?

Third, who is accepting mediocrity? Mediocrity would be not going after any grad transfers because the staff is happy with who we have. Instead, we are going after at least 2 of the top 5 players at a position of need (and top 4 of players at a position of need that haven't been arrested multiple times).
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 25, 2019, 07:54:10 AM
It’s more than settling for mediocrity. It’s coming up with crazy convoluted statistics to try and prove everything is ok. It’s rationalizing losing two of the best players on the team as a good thing and saying MU will be quicker and better defensively. It’s saying everything is ok because we can easily replace the points and rebounds with several lesser players. Claiming that the Hauser’s were too slow and transfers happen all the time.  Absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying the world is coming to an end either and I hope the coaches can hold it together, but face the reality and gravity of the situation.

I don't think I've seen anyone say that losing the Hausers is good thing. Pretty sure that's universally bad. Marquette will be quicker and better defensively, that's just reality but that won't make up for what we lost on offense and the boards.

I also don't think anyone is saying the Hausers will easily be replaced. What I have seen is people who have accepted the reality of the situation and are trying to identify what needs to happen for us to be successful moving forward.

The reality and gravity of the situation is that instead of being projected as a top 10 team we will be projected as a top 35ish team (unless we sign on some more help). It sucks, is disappointing, and personally I won't be satisfied if that's where we finish. Wojo and staff have a lot of work to do and will either need to get more talent to Milwaukee or will need to get the team to be more than the sum of its parts (something they haven't done in the first 5 years). I hope for Marquette's sake that they are up to the task.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
Very well said, Goose.

The casual acceptance of mediocrity is bizarre. I guess that's why there is a market for things like Spam and Busch Beer in this world.


Who's accepting mediocrity?

It's accepting that next year's team could be short of bodies, and since it doesn't look as though the top grad transfers are interested in MU, that means going to second tier guys who will primarily provide depth.

Guru is at least coming up with ideas.  Instead of complaining, what do you think Wojo should do in the next couple of months to improve the team for next year?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2019, 08:13:52 AM
It’s more than settling for mediocrity. It’s coming up with crazy convoluted statistics to try and prove everything is ok. It’s rationalizing losing two of the best players on the team as a good thing and saying MU will be quicker and better defensively. It’s saying everything is ok because we can easily replace the points and rebounds with several lesser players. Claiming that the Hauser’s were too slow and transfers happen all the time.  Absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying the world is coming to an end either and I hope the coaches can hold it together, but face the reality and gravity of the situation.



Outside of a couple people, such as Sand Knit, hardly anyone is saying any of the above.  There is an almost universal consensus that losing the Hausers was a bad thing.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: bilsu on April 25, 2019, 08:45:47 AM
It’s more than settling for mediocrity. It’s coming up with crazy convoluted statistics to try and prove everything is ok. It’s rationalizing losing two of the best players on the team as a good thing and saying MU will be quicker and better defensively. It’s saying everything is ok because we can easily replace the points and rebounds with several lesser players. Claiming that the Hauser’s were too slow and transfers happen all the time.  Absolutely ridiculous. I am not saying the world is coming to an end either and I hope the coaches can hold it together, but face the reality and gravity of the situation.
Everything was not ok. I am not sure of the timing of the letter, but I got the impression it was after the Villanova loss. Whenever it happen the team fell apart. The Hausers simply tanked team unity and anyone who thinks. players writing a letter and asking other team players to sign it was a good idea, just is not recognizing the damage it did to the team.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 25, 2019, 11:08:39 AM
Losing the Hausers hurt.  But the program didn't shut down.  Suck it up.   What can be expected and how best can those who chose to stay be utilized?

It is like golf.  If you hit it in the rough/woods/sand, do you start whining and accept your 8?   Good, I want to play you because I see those as part of life and an opportunity for a recovery shot that I will tell you about for years as I make a 4 or 5.

It was a bad day.  Quit acting like it was the end of the world.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2019, 11:30:42 AM
I don't think I've seen anyone say that losing the Hausers is good thing. Pretty sure that's universally bad. Marquette will be quicker and better defensively, that's just reality but that won't make up for what we lost on offense and the boards.

I also don't think anyone is saying the Hausers will easily be replaced. What I have seen is people who have accepted the reality of the situation and are trying to identify what needs to happen for us to be successful moving forward.

The reality and gravity of the situation is that instead of being projected as a top 10 team we will be projected as a top 35ish team (unless we sign on some more help). It sucks, is disappointing, and personally I won't be satisfied if that's where we finish. Wojo and staff have a lot of work to do and will either need to get more talent to Milwaukee or will need to get the team to be more than the sum of its parts (something they haven't done in the first 5 years). I hope for Marquette's sake that they are up to the task.

To set the record straight, at least one Scooper does keep saying that losing the Hausers was a good thing. Maybe you couldn't see that, TAMU, because each of his profanity-filled, logic-deprived posts was so filled with misspellings and factual errors they were hard to understand.

There might be another Scooper or two who are making similar arguments as well.

Otherwise, your post is spot-on.

The Hausers aren't walking back through that door. So as tower aptly put it, either we mope around and accept that we are going to have our worst round of golf ever, or we scramble to find a way to still make something good out of it.

So we get it, the Hausers are gone and we almost certainly will not be able to replace their shooting and rebounding this season.

This post and a couple others are about moving forward. There are plenty of threads available for us to rehash who was to blame and to pine about the good ol' days of Sam and Joey.

They're gone. Now it's up to Wojo to do what you say in your last paragraph, TAMU. Like you, I'm skeptical of his ability to do it, but I'm also hopeful because we do still have some talent and we hopefully have more coming in.

Or we can use every thread, even the hopeful, forward-looking ones, to bash Wojo for losing Sam and Joey.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 25, 2019, 12:03:54 PM
First, you can call BS all you want but it doesn't make it true. Sam is better than Blackshear and Joey is either almost or as good as Juiston and both fit our needs better than either of those grad transfers do.



One of the few times I’ll disagree with you.

Blackshear is clearly better than Sam. And I don’t think it’s even close. Cal wants Blackshear at Kentucky- he ain’t even looking at Sam.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 25, 2019, 12:06:25 PM
One of the few times I’ll disagree with you.

Blackshear is clearly better than Sam. And I don’t think it’s even close. Cal wants Blackshear at Kentucky- he ain’t even looking at Sam.

Cal isn't really in the business of wasting a scholarship on a kid that won't play for a year.  I am sure he'd love to have Sam if he was immediately eligible.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2019, 12:22:03 PM
One of the few times I’ll disagree with you.

Blackshear is clearly better than Sam. And I don’t think it’s even close. Cal wants Blackshear at Kentucky- he ain’t even looking at Sam.

Exactly, I loved Sam, but Blackshear IS better and you're right, it's not really close.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 25, 2019, 12:27:46 PM
Cal isn't really in the business of wasting a scholarship on a kid that won't play for a year.  I am sure he'd love to have Sam if he was immediately eligible.

He seldom uses them all. Sitting Sam and Joey would not affect roster makeup.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2019, 12:42:52 PM
Looks like help is on the way. Pay careful attention to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1121447177346273280?s=21
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Marquette4life on April 25, 2019, 12:48:43 PM
Looks like help is on the way. Pay careful attention to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1121447177346273280?s=21
jayce?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 25, 2019, 12:49:13 PM
Symir's name listed under Freshmen.  Nice....
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Marquette4life on April 25, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
Symir's name listed under Freshmen.  Nice....
redshirt
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 25, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
Got him in the door and on campus. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Marquette4life on April 25, 2019, 12:56:49 PM
Got him in the door and on campus.
who
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 25, 2019, 01:31:06 PM
Guru, there is no situation, no combination of immediately eligible players, where Marquette will be projected to be as good as or better than they were with the Hausers. That ship has sailed. Sam is better than anyone on the grad transfer list. Joey is better than most. Even if we landed Blackshear and Juiston we would still be projected to be worse than when we had the Hausers. That is reality.

If Marquette is going to be as good as they expected to be pre-Hausers, they will have to outperform their projections on paper. Fortunately, that's why basketball is played on the court and not on paper.

Back to the grad transfers, I'm liking this Yeboah kid more and more. Ran the defensive numbers on him....they are niiiiiice. His defense is actually better than his offense and his offense is pretty darn good. Question will be how he translates his game to the high major level. A 6'6" 235 lbs, I could very easily see him winning the battle for starting PF.

Demir, defense is even worse than I would have guessed. As others have said, flat footed and slow. Still don't mind him as a depth pick up, but I would be surprised if he ended up being more than a 7th or 8th player in the rotation.
I think MU will be better / as good  post Hausergate. My reasoning is that the team chemistry will be better. Not because Hausers were bad guys . Rather ,Everyone will be very happy in their role. That job satisfaction leads to success as a team.

Also Greg Elliott is very keen on keeping all the various mouths fed when he is on the court and that helps a lot as well.  I think Greg and Jamal reunited will be a beautiful thing.



Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2019, 01:37:18 PM
I think MU will be better / as good  post Hausergate. My reasoning is that the team chemistry will be better. Not because Hausers were bad guys . Rather ,Everyone will be very happy in their role. That job satisfaction leads to success as a team.

Also Greg Elliott is very keen on keeping all the various mouths fed when he is on the court and that helps a lot as well.  I think Greg and Jamal reunited will be a beautiful thing.

Wait ... you think we're gonna be better even though you have said multiple times in the last couple of weeks that Wojo can't coach and that he has lost the team?

Now you're saying a team coached by Wojo will be "united" and "happy" and "successful"?

Interesting.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 25, 2019, 02:00:30 PM
Wait ... you think we're gonna be better even though you have said multiple times in the last couple of weeks that Wojo can't coach and that he has lost the team?

Now you're saying a team coached by Wojo will be "united" and "happy" and "successful"?

Interesting.

Cuz Stan will be doing the actual coaching and personnel decisions. Wojo will just be a figurehead.

Gotta keep up, brother.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 25, 2019, 02:05:01 PM
the Turkish kid

The Stony Brook guy

These guys actually would both fit right away, and I’m truly not certain if we landed both if our drop-off would be much at all from pre-Hausergate.

YGBSM
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: 79Warrior on April 25, 2019, 02:09:45 PM
YGBSM

LOL
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 03:24:34 PM
Crash

I needed a laugh today. Well done.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 25, 2019, 03:50:42 PM
YGBSM

Oh I get it now.

The military invented the acronym FUBAR...
So you are going with that theme for MU Hoops ‘19-‘20.

Have fun rooting for Becky. You can have the quitters.



Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 25, 2019, 03:55:19 PM
Oh I get it now.

The military invented the acronym FUBAR...
So you are going with that theme for MU Hoops ‘19-‘20.

Have fun rooting for Becky. You can have the quitters.

BOHICA
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: BM1090 on April 25, 2019, 03:55:42 PM
I'm really not sure what anyone has against Yeboah. He is athletic. A capable shooter. A good defender. Basic and advanced stats both indicate he'd be a solid player at this level.

The Drexel guy I get the hesitation. Not sure why there is so much hesitation for Yeboah

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 25, 2019, 05:19:15 PM
I'm really not sure what anyone has against Yeboah. He is athletic. A capable shooter. A good defender. Basic and advanced stats both indicate he'd be a solid player at this level.

The Drexel guy I get the hesitation. Not sure why there is so much hesitation for Yeboah

Cuz lots of posters are actively rooting for Wojo to fail?  You know ....... the real fans.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 05:39:50 PM
Jockey

I think you are way off base thinking people want Wojo to fail. I have voiced my displeasure and concerns about Wojo and still am concerned he can get it done. That said, aside from Dukiet’s last season, I have never wanted a coach or team to fail.

I do not doubt there are folks on here that may take pleasure if Wojo failed, I am not one of them. Have said many times over the past three years, I would be extremely happy to say I was flat out wrong about Wojo.

When I saw the proposed bet with guru and sand knut, I thought guru was making a mistake. Why would anyone want to win that bet on his side. While I think he would win, I sure hope not.

Lastly, I do think some on here make wild judgements about folks they do not know. I am guilty of that and definitely have a bias against certain posters. So, for all the wildly supportive Wojo backers, I hope you prove me wrong.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2019, 05:40:11 PM
I'm really not sure what anyone has against Yeboah. He is athletic. A capable shooter. A good defender. Basic and advanced stats both indicate he'd be a solid player at this level.

The Drexel guy I get the hesitation. Not sure why there is so much hesitation for Yeboah

I have nothing against him but I'd like them to aim higher..he's about 4th on my list right now behind Blackshear, Juiston and Johnson
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: BM1090 on April 25, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
I have nothing against him but I'd like them to aim higher..he's about 4th on my list right now behind Blackshear, Juiston and Johnson

And I think that is completely fair. But we have 3 spots open.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 25, 2019, 06:18:18 PM
Jockey

I think you are way off base thinking people want Wojo to fail. I have voiced my displeasure and concerns about Wojo and still am concerned he can get it done. That said, aside from Dukiet’s last season, I have never wanted a coach or team to fail.

I do not doubt there are folks on here that may take pleasure if Wojo failed, I am not one of them. Have said many times over the past three years, I would be extremely happy to say I was flat out wrong about Wojo.

When I saw the proposed bet with guru and sand knut, I thought guru was making a mistake. Why would anyone want to win that bet on his side. While I think he would win, I sure hope not.

Lastly, I do think some on here make wild judgements about folks they do not know. I am guilty of that and definitely have a bias against certain posters. So, for all the wildly supportive Wojo backers, I hope you prove me wrong.

Goose, you weren’t one of the posters I was referencing. I,too, am still not convinced Wojo is the answer. While I still support him, that could easily change if we end up being an NIT team this year. At this point, he needs to at least make the dance PLUS have a great 2020 recruiting year for me to stay fully on board.

But I stand by my statement that there are numerous posters here actively rooting for him to fail. Certainly nowhere near a majority, but still a substantial number.

I hope he has success this year and many more to come.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 25, 2019, 06:30:13 PM
Jockey

I think you are way off base thinking people want Wojo to fail. I have voiced my displeasure and concerns about Wojo and still am concerned he can get it done. That said, aside from Dukiet’s last season, I have never wanted a coach or team to fail.

I do not doubt there are folks on here that may take pleasure if Wojo failed, I am not one of them. Have said many times over the past three years, I would be extremely happy to say I was flat out wrong about Wojo.

When I saw the proposed bet with guru and sand knut, I thought guru was making a mistake. Why would anyone want to win that bet on his side. While I think he would win, I sure hope not.

Lastly, I do think some on here make wild judgements about folks they do not know. I am guilty of that and definitely have a bias against certain posters. So, for all the wildly supportive Wojo backers, I hope you prove me wrong.

Sorry, but when there are people here that flat out say they want Wojo fired and now, that means they are rooting for him to fail.  How can it be interpreted any other way?   In the past we have had people here say things like they hope we lose to quicken the process...not under this coach, under previous coaches.  But I fail to see how posters can say they want Wojo gone NOW and somehow also argue they want him to succeed.  Those two are incongruent in my opinion.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 06:41:20 PM
Cheeks

I would fall into camp that Wojo could or should be replaced. Fact is, he was not. I have no interest in program going backwards to prove me right. Time for Wojo and program to take bigger steps forward. I would far prefer Wojo to succeed than flounder.

I have always respected your opinion on here, even when I flat out disagreed with you. Your idea of success is different than mine and I accept that.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 25, 2019, 06:48:33 PM
Cheeks

I would fall into camp that Wojo could or should be replaced. Fact is, he was not. I have no interest in program going backwards to prove me right. Time for Wojo and program to take bigger steps forward. I would far prefer Wojo to succeed than flounder.

I have always respected your opinion on here, even when I flat out disagreed with you. Your idea of success is different than mine and I accept that.

I'm not saying you were one of those people, but there are others that have called for immediate removal.  The statement here made by several is NO ONE IS SAYING they want Wojo to fail.

I strongly disagree, there are people here that do.

You are correct, we do have different views of success.  I base mine on pragmatic realities of the 2000's and having worked in college athletics.  It isn't 1970's anymore, Milwaukee is not an easy place to recruit to, the world has changed considerably.  That doesn't mean I don't think we can be more successful than we have been, it also doesn't mean in a given year we can't go far in a tournament, or in most years compete and be a top 25 school.  I think that's successful. I get the sense not everyone agrees with that definition.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 25, 2019, 07:31:47 PM
(http://www.listfyou.com/contentdippyimages/1071.gif)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 07:57:25 PM
Cheeks

We have NEVER had a better chance on recruiting than we currently do. The Greek Freak, national attention and new arena are great selling tools. I would swing for the fences while we have this window.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TedBaxter on April 25, 2019, 08:00:56 PM
I have nothing against him but I'd like them to aim higher..he's about 4th on my list right now behind Blackshear, Juiston and Johnson

You are high on Jayce Johnson?  Theo's backup.  Would rather have Skogman.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 25, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
Cheeks,

You are correct,  many here are rooting for Wojo to fail.  Their mind is made up.  Others talk out of both sides of their mouths on the issue.   

With regard to definition of success, the 70s boys think you are either competing for National Championships every year (or very close to it) or you are a failure.   

What they fail to understand is that in order for that to happen, we need to 1) catch lightning in a bottle and hire the next Al McGuire or 2) we are going to have to hire a coach that may not have the initial impact they yearn for but who learns on the job, improves year to year and stays for a long time.   



Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 08:13:14 PM
Shooter

The ‘70’s guys do not think that. We do think that the program can have far greater success. It has been seven years without a tourney win. I would say we are a great balance, of knowing what a great program looks like with reasonable expectations for a program with our history.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 25, 2019, 08:15:27 PM
Cheeks

We have NEVER had a better chance on recruiting than we currently do. The Greek Freak, national attention and new arena are great selling tools. I would swing for the fences while we have this window.

I’m not sure how the Greek Freak matters one iota.  Does Houston recruit better because Harden is in town?  Cal to be a power because of Curry?  USC because LeBron is in town?  Because they play in the same building?  I would put that way down the list of reasons why kids go anywhere which is exactly why so many programs without the hint of a nba team within 100 miles do very well.

If the NCAA trial is true and UNC, DUkE, KU, UK are shoveling dollars....why does it matter to swing for the fences as we have no chance.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 08:22:47 PM
cheeks

If you do not know how the Freak, National Buzz and great atmosphere would help with recruits, you obviously were in a closet during your time in collegiate athletics. I am a 55y man that has seen a lot of greatness and find him must see TV. If a kid dreaming about the show did not want to be exposed to that up close and personal, I would be shocked.

Have to admit, you are consistent. While I love you on scoop, respect you as a man, I am glad you are not running our program.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 25, 2019, 08:26:26 PM
Just stacked the cooler with a limit of walleye
Good to see bitches havent changed
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: VegasWarrior77 on April 25, 2019, 08:27:16 PM
cheeks

If you do not know how the Freak, National Buzz and great atmosphere would help with recruits, you obviously were in a closet during your time in collegiate athletics. I am a 55y man that has seen a lot of greatness and find him must see TV. If a kid dreaming about the show did not want to be exposed to that up close and personal, I would be shocked.

Have to admit, you are consistent. While I love you on scoop, respect you as a man, I am glad you are not running our program.

Wow young fella'!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 08:33:19 PM
Vegas

Feeling old on this site.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 25, 2019, 08:57:06 PM
Shooter

The ‘70’s guys do not think that. We do think that the program can have far greater success. It has been seven years without a tourney win. I would say we are a great balance, of knowing what a great program looks like with reasonable expectations for a program with our history.

Ultimately my definition of success is better than what has happened the last five years as well.  Personally a Buzz level of success would be my preference with a random final four thrown in once in a while.  I believed wojo was building toward that type of success with the success this year (even with the collapse) and the promise of next year (both 2019/2020 upcoming results and recruiting class).   Have to admit the Hausers leaving took some of my optimism away.  But I still think the jury is out.  Wojo has the chance to deliver on both post season success next year and a big time recruiting class.  If he doesn’t, I will be with you. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: VegasWarrior77 on April 25, 2019, 08:59:19 PM
Vegas

Feeling old on this site.

You're not that old...  I don't get involved with the day-to-day BS on this site - not worth it.  I come on here mostly for recruiting information.  Rick was a friend of the family.  I knew him since I was in sixth grade (1966).  Saw him start (and was part of) his coaching career at St. Sebastian's.  Played ball at Neeskara during the summers as he organized games.  After the games we would go down to Horkie's drug store (on Vliet St.) where he charged 3 cents per glass of water.  When some of the Buck's players came to play I just sat in awe!  The good old days...  I have no inside info about MU today.  Had some back in the good old days. I could tell some stories.  Times change...

 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Newsdreams on April 25, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
Vegas

Feeling old on this site.
Lol I'm older than you and feel younger. But to the point, there are lots here that would rather have it all burn down because they think the grass will grow greener. A very big gamble that can easily backfire.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 09:04:49 PM
Vegas

Sent you a PM
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2019, 09:25:29 PM
News

Knock on wood, I still feel like I am 25. Maybe I am crazy, but think the anti Wojo guys love MU ball big time and want a better program. One common theme, non of us believe the program cannot be great again. Simple fact, it is a nice program. More progress is needed for a bit in from this guy.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2019, 09:36:30 PM
You know who has given our program great publicity?

Our own Markus Howard.

There have been a few nights that SportsCenter led off with his 45-plus scoring exhibitions. Every time Marquette was discussed, his name was first, second and third. (Maybe that's one of the things that ticked off the Hausers.)

Even after Sam hit that shot vs Creighton, the one who was interviewed nationally was the guy who passed him the ball ... and scored 53 freakin' points. He gave Sam all the credit, right there on national TV, too.

He's an All-American and BEPOY, and he got the attention that goes with those honors, and those things helped put a lot of spotlight on Marquette basketball.

Plus he's on that student council thing and that gets mentioned prominently ... and both he and Marquette come out looking great because of it.

I'm thinking recruits watched the second half of that Buffalo game or that K-State game or the Creighton game or the home Nova game or several others and went, "Damn! That Marquette dude is like watching a video game!"

And I think they said that a lot more than they said, "Oh, and Greek Freak is in Milwaukee, too."

I'm not totally dismissing that it's cool to have a good NBA team in town, and the guy who should be NBA MVP. I do think our coaching staff can sell that as one of the great things about Marquette. But I'm guessing we can sell Wade and Butler at least as much, if not more.

You know what else we can sell?

"You can come to Marquette and, if you're good enough, we will feature you and you can average 25 ppg and be an All-American. Just look at Markus Howard."
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 26, 2019, 03:25:46 AM
Cheeks,

You are correct,  many here are rooting for Wojo to fail.  Their mind is made up.  Others talk out of both sides of their mouths on the issue.   

With regard to definition of success, the 70s boys think you are either competing for National Championships every year (or very close to it) or you are a failure.   

What they fail to understand is that in order for that to happen, we need to 1) catch lightning in a bottle and hire the next Al McGuire or 2) we are going to have to hire a coach that may not have the initial impact they yearn for but who learns on the job, improves year to year and stays for a long time.

A couple questions:

1. Should I short MSFT?

2. Where would my spouse care to vacation this fall?

3. Who will win the World Series this year?

4. Chicken or beef at next week's conference?

5. Lotto numbers?

Thank you and,

Sincerely,

A 70s boy (sic)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jon on April 26, 2019, 03:30:15 AM
BOHICA

A classic. Some things are timeless.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/67SOYjSYkRFV9thisg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 07:09:46 AM
82

I think I overestimate you when it comes to understanding some of my posts. There is no doubt that MU has a ton to promote the program from within. I guess I assumed you, and most anyone, that MU would promote current kids in the program, the university and it’s history. That should be a given.

My point on The Freak, Bucks and Fiserv was quite simple. Many in here use recruiting to MKE is a difficult task, and in some regard I agree. For the first time in my memory, MKE has some real selling points. I would much rather be selling a recruit on The Freak than a Polar Vortex.

Secondly, you and I would recruit far different players. I would be going after kids that their objective post college is playing in the NBA. If you want to target student council kids, the Bucks probably are not a big selling point. IMO, this is an opportunity to reach out to players that at are a different level.

This is another example of different opinion of the program. I don’t want thugs, but if student council players are the goal, Wojo has built a solid program. Again, this goes back to my argument of what is ultimate goal for the program. If the goal is to build an upper level program with student council kids, Wojo should have a ten year window. That model takes a long, long time to be built.

I know you are not suggesting only going after student council kids and I get your premise. In my business life I have always looked for an advantage to get to the next level. IMO, MU now has a little extra to be touting and that is exciting.

Not being a smart ass, but I would be tweeting pictures of Howard with The Freak over a team huddle with Wojo laughing with the guys. Selling team unity, family and togetherness should be a given. I thought MU did great job in Wade day and I would use that more.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2019, 07:34:14 AM
I know you are not suggesting only going after student council kids and I get your premise.

Good. No other comment necessary.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 26, 2019, 08:57:06 AM
82

I think I overestimate you when it comes to understanding some of my posts. There is no doubt that MU has a ton to promote the program from within. I guess I assumed you, and most anyone, that MU would promote current kids in the program, the university and it’s history. That should be a given.

My point on The Freak, Bucks and Fiserv was quite simple. Many in here use recruiting to MKE is a difficult task, and in some regard I agree. For the first time in my memory, MKE has some real selling points. I would much rather be selling a recruit on The Freak than a Polar Vortex.

Secondly, you and I would recruit far different players. I would be going after kids that their objective post college is playing in the NBA. If you want to target student council kids, the Bucks probably are not a big selling point. IMO, this is an opportunity to reach out to players that at are a different level.

This is another example of different opinion of the program. I don’t want thugs, but if student council players are the goal, Wojo has built a solid program. Again, this goes back to my argument of what is ultimate goal for the program. If the goal is to build an upper level program with student council kids, Wojo should have a ten year window. That model takes a long, long time to be built.

I know you are not suggesting only going after student council kids and I get your premise. In my business life I have always looked for an advantage to get to the next level. IMO, MU now has a little extra to be touting and that is exciting.

Not being a smart ass, but I would be tweeting pictures of Howard with The Freak over a team huddle with Wojo laughing with the guys. Selling team unity, family and togetherness should be a given. I thought MU did great job in Wade day and I would use that more.

If that is the goal of the admin, is that a problem for you?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: GOO on April 26, 2019, 09:34:37 AM
A couple questions:

1. Should I short MSFT? Yes, along with the entire Market if history is any indication of what is to come.  The only question is when. /color]

2. Where would my spouse care to vacation this fall? No idea, but skip the fall vacation unless you are heading North, in which case I'd suggest Sweden or Montreal Quebec

3. Who will win the World Series this year? Not a Cubs fan, but always pick the Cubs

4. Chicken or beef at next week's conference?Neither, save the planet and yourself and skip both

5. Lotto numbers?You don't play and neither do I.  Give the $2 to someone when you vacation in a poor country who can really use it and you both will benefit

Thank you and,

Sincerely,

A 70s boy (sic)
Since you asked.  No charge.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: WithoutBias on April 26, 2019, 09:43:01 AM
uh oh. the triggered pilot is back.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 10:39:42 AM
jesmu

I have stated countless times that would not be a problem for me. I do have a problem not knowing if that is the goal. If that is their goal, Wojo has unlimited timetable from me. That would be a difficult task and he should not take heat for time needed to achieve that goal.

I have stated that I would definitely lower the ball budget if that is the goal and hire a Brian Wardle type guy. Pay him $750k year and keep him for 20 years. There would be no need for private jets for recruiting, high lease at Fiserv or other perks currently within the program.

I would be 100% happy with swinging for the fences or having a nice program with great kids. My expectations would match the vision the school laid out.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 26, 2019, 10:55:52 AM
82

I think I overestimate you when it comes to understanding some of my posts. There is no doubt that MU has a ton to promote the program from within. I guess I assumed you, and most anyone, that MU would promote current kids in the program, the university and it’s history. That should be a given.

My point on The Freak, Bucks and Fiserv was quite simple. Many in here use recruiting to MKE is a difficult task, and in some regard I agree. For the first time in my memory, MKE has some real selling points. I would much rather be selling a recruit on The Freak than a Polar Vortex.

Secondly, you and I would recruit far different players. I would be going after kids that their objective post college is playing in the NBA. If you want to target student council kids, the Bucks probably are not a big selling point. IMO, this is an opportunity to reach out to players that at are a different level.

This is another example of different opinion of the program. I don’t want thugs, but if student council players are the goal, Wojo has built a solid program. Again, this goes back to my argument of what is ultimate goal for the program. If the goal is to build an upper level program with student council kids, Wojo should have a ten year window. That model takes a long, long time to be built.

I know you are not suggesting only going after student council kids and I get your premise. In my business life I have always looked for an advantage to get to the next level. IMO, MU now has a little extra to be touting and that is exciting.

Not being a smart ass, but I would be tweeting pictures of Howard with The Freak over a team huddle with Wojo laughing with the guys. Selling team unity, family and togetherness should be a given. I thought MU did great job in Wade day and I would use that more.

I'll let MU82 speak for himself but I'm not sure you understood his post because what you wrote above is not at all what I took out of it.  I did not at all get the impression that 82 was saying Marquette shouldn't focus on players whose ultimate goal is the NBA or that Marquette should focus on "student council kids".  Not sure where you got that from at all. 

Nor did I get the impression that he was saying Marquette shouldn't use Fiserv as a selling point.  That is absolutely a focus of the staff when recruiting.  Now I'm not sure how much having the Bucks in town and a potential MVP Giannis is mentioned but I'd imagine it's touched on.  However, I don't think the Bucks/Giannis is going to necessarily be a deciding factor on where a kid goes to school.  It's going to be the staff, teammates, the opportunity for playing time, the facilities, the arena, the conference, etc. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 26, 2019, 11:02:08 AM
jesmu

I have stated countless times that would not be a problem for me. I do have a problem not knowing if that is the goal. If that is their goal, Wojo has unlimited timetable from me. That would be a difficult task and he should not take heat for time needed to achieve that goal.

I have stated that I would definitely lower the ball budget if that is the goal and hire a Brian Wardle type guy. Pay him $750k year and keep him for 20 years. There would be no need for private jets for recruiting, high lease at Fiserv or other perks currently within the program.

I would be 100% happy with swinging for the fences or having a nice program with great kids. My expectations would match the vision the school laid out.

That's fair.

Where I disagree is that even if we want to build the program with "student council" types, we still want the best bball players of those. Which means we need all the resources still in place.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
Why do we assume that kids who are good at basketball are usually "student council types?"
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: swoopem on April 26, 2019, 11:06:16 AM
jesmu

I have stated countless times that would not be a problem for me. I do have a problem not knowing if that is the goal. If that is their goal, Wojo has unlimited timetable from me. That would be a difficult task and he should not take heat for time needed to achieve that goal.

I have stated that I would definitely lower the ball budget if that is the goal and hire a Brian Wardle type guy. Pay him $750k year and keep him for 20 years. There would be no need for private jets for recruiting, high lease at Fiserv or other perks currently within the program.

I would be 100% happy with swinging for the fences or having a nice program with great kids. My expectations would match the vision the school laid out.

Phuck that. Up the budget and let’s win some games in March
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 11:11:49 AM
swoop

That is my preference.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 26, 2019, 11:21:27 AM
This is another example of different opinion of the program. I don’t want thugs, but if student council players are the goal, Wojo has built a solid program. Again, this goes back to my argument of what is ultimate goal for the program. If the goal is to build an upper level program with student council kids, Wojo should have a ten year window. That model takes a long, long time to be built.

I have stated that I would definitely lower the ball budget if that is the goal and hire a Brian Wardle type guy. Pay him $750k year and keep him for 20 years. There would be no need for private jets for recruiting, high lease at Fiserv or other perks currently within the program.

If the goal is to build an upper level program with "student council kids", why would you cut the basketball budget, private jets, Fiserv? This doesn't make sense to me. I'm also not sure what a "student council kid" is.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 11:21:50 AM
Vander

I will make my point clearer. With the added excitement of having the most exciting player on the planet, a great NBA team and a first class NBA arena, I would up the ante on guys being recruited. I am sure most guys that play D1 ball either dream or have dreamed about playing the NBA and that is great. The guys I am talking about recruiting are guys that are coming to MU, or wherever, with the sole purpose of playing professional ball.

If MU is recruiting the stud from Drexel, in addition to promoting MU to him, I would be pushing NML or Baird as being a big part of the landscape of MKE. Telling him of the great post graduation business opportunities that exist in MKE. Now, if I am recruiting Jalen Johnson, or players of his stature, I likely would use a different recruiting approach and highlight the most exciting player on the planet being in town.

Mike's post is a great approach for recruiting 90% of the kids out there. My point was/is, this could be an opportunity to not use "it is difficult to recruit to MKE" excuse for awhile. I do think it is funny, that every year MU has a crapload of kids on sports scholarships, but it is hard to recruit to MKE.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NickelDimer on April 26, 2019, 11:33:48 AM
Marquette fans are rooting for the Marquette coach to fail which means their team will fail? Because they don’t believe in him?? Some of you crack me the hell up
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: LAZER on April 26, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
swoop

That is my preference.
What's your idea of swinging for the fences?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 26, 2019, 11:36:51 AM
You go and get the best players....roll the ball out and go play.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 26, 2019, 11:38:26 AM
A couple questions:

1. Should I short MSFT?

2. Where would my spouse care to vacation this fall?

3. Who will win the World Series this year?

4. Chicken or beef at next week's conference?

5. Lotto numbers?

Thank you and,

Sincerely,

A 70s boy (sic)

Ha!, cant answer those for you and ultimately I’m not trying to tell you how to think.  You, especially, have strong opinions on wojo and the fact the program can never reach the heights we want it to with him as the coach.  I believe that you and others may be correct but am allowing for the possibility that he can move MUBB forward enough in the next year that it would start to satisfy even the most impatient fans (losing the Hausers was not a good start). 

Having gone to MU in the 80s (80s guy) almost solely because of the success MU had in the 70s my patience is greater.  My fear with changing coaches too early is that it will lead us to another disastrous ten year period.  I’d rather ride this out a little longer and have the administration make a decision on Wojo one year from now.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 26, 2019, 11:43:43 AM
If the goal is to build an upper level program with "student council kids", why would you cut the basketball budget, private jets, Fiserv? This doesn't make sense to me. I'm also not sure what a "student council kid" is.

Pretty sure he means not sacrificing academics and having good kids for the benefit of wins and losses on the basketball court. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 11:46:14 AM
J5

Correct.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 26, 2019, 11:55:42 AM
"You play to win the game"
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2019, 12:10:30 PM
Goose, my post above applies to any and all recruits.

That post had 11 paragraphs. For some reason, you chose to focus on a one-sentence paragraph in the middle that began with, "Plus ... " In other words, it was just that, a plus. I also spent a paragraph acknowledging that Marquette being in the same city as the Bucks/Freak also was a plus.

Nowhere did I say we shouldn't recruit elite athletes. That is the opposite of what I believe, and I have stated that many, many times. I want Wojo to go for the best players out there, and I firmly believe he should use every method that is legal to do it.

Of course, he also has to have a Plan B because the simple fact is that, given the choice between Marquette and a blueblood, most will choose the blueblood. The same is true for every other program that isn't a blueblood ... unless you think Marquette is the only non-blueblood that "loses" recruits to bluebloods.

So if he is going all-out to get Jalen Johnson, he also better have a good chance to land a skilled 4-star, because the truth is that even if Greek Freak lets Jalen sit on his lap and feeds him grapes, Jalen will choose a school other than Marquette.

I call that being realistic; you apparently call it "settling." Do you think that if Wojo, Stan and the rest of our recruiters go on all-out blitzes, one recruit after another will say, "To heck with Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State and UNC; Ring Out Ahoya!"? How do you know they don't already go on all-out blitzes?

I get that you don't want us to trail the bluebloods -- you want us to be a blueblood again ourselves, as we were under Al. So does every other Marquette fan! But it obviously isn't easy, which is why there are only a handful of bluebloods. Raymonds, Majerus, Dukiet, KO, Deane, Crean and Buzz couldn't get it done. A couple of them came close but no cigar. Maybe Wojo will be the one who can do what KO, Crean and Buzz couldn't. Maybe he won't and we'll have to get somebody else. Or maybe he will come close and then run away like KO, Crean and Buzz did.

I specifically said: "It's cool to have a good NBA team in town, and the guy who should be NBA MVP. I do think our coaching staff can sell that as one of the great things about Marquette."

Nevertheless, the main point of my previous post was that a Marquette player who achieves what Markus has and who has brought incredible positive attention to Marquette basketball is a damn valuable recruiting asset. I'd argue he's more valuable than an NBA player who happens to play in the same city, but you're allowed to disagree.

And yes, Wojo also can tell a recruit's mom, "We have more than just great athletes; we also have kids who grow up to be leaders, and we even have one who sits on a national council. We care about the whole person, and Markus and our other outstanding young man are proof." I dunno ... call me old-fashioned ... but Majerus always used to say a big part of it is recruiting the moms, and I think examples like Markus do help.

Goose, for some reason that I haven't quite figured out, whenever you have disagreed with me or have wanted to push home your own point the last couple of weeks, you have been misrepresenting what I say. The first couple of times I ignored it as an aberration because you never used to do that. But this is at least the fourth or fifth time you've done it since Hausergeddon. I chalk it up to frustration on your part, but I don't have to like it. You are a smart guy and I think a good guy, too, and you are so much better than this Ners-like or MSK-like tactic. Please stop.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on April 26, 2019, 12:31:30 PM
MU82 rightly states that given the choice b/t Marquette and a blue blood, most will choose the blue blood.

As Pink Floyd states in KeepTalking, “It doesn’t have to be like this.” Or does it?
Marquette is a really cool, unique place...and not just because we all went there. However, I’m starting to think that the game is irreparably corrupted by the shoe companies and the cheating blue bloods....and that schools like MU should not jump into this fray. Very sad. The fact that KU just signed a $200 million deal with the Adidas, the very company which they claimed “victimized” them in the FBI wiretaps case. It is beyond disgusting. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 26, 2019, 12:32:27 PM
J5

Correct.

Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 26, 2019, 12:33:29 PM
Pretty sure he means not sacrificing academics and having good kids for the benefit of wins and losses on the basketball court.

J5

Correct.

Im still confused. Is the implication that by investing in basketball we're somehow sacrificing academics at the university?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 12:34:52 PM
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 12:36:56 PM
Marquette fans are rooting for the Marquette coach to fail which means their team will fail? Because they don’t believe in him?? Some of you crack me the hell up

Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday? 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 12:37:03 PM
Mike,

I acknowledged I picked one sentence out of your post, and acknowledged that I understood your premise. We likely agree on 90% of the type of kid to recruit and how to recruit them. Funny thing, you noted how Rick used to recruit the Mom and that probably is true to this day. Sadly, for some kids I would recruit, the appeal of seeing multi millionaires strutting their stuff at the Fiserv might mean more than their child getting an education.

I will add, that I do not agree with you on the Jalen Johnson's of the world, especially in today's world. I have said many times that I love Wojo swinging for the fences by recruiting stars. He may have come up short, but likely much closer than many on here know. Wojo's value, IMO, is he might land a whale. If he does, the second is easier.

I do apologize if I misrepresented you, and thought I had made that clear in original reply to you. You state your case far better than I ever state mine.

Lastly, please remember that I do believe that Wojo has a chance at landing a whale. No BS, I truly believe that.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 12:37:38 PM
You go and get the best players....roll the ball out and go play.

Sure...just like that.


Some of you at Disneyland today in the Fantasyland section posting on Scoop?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 26, 2019, 12:42:53 PM
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

Marquette has never consistently landed classes full of top 50 talent.  Sure, they've landed a few here and there, generally from the state of Wisconsin, but its never been consistent.  Not sure why you expect that to suddenly change?

You always say you want Marquette to be ELITE again.  I wasn't alive in 1970s, and they definitely were elite then, but that is now 40+ years ago.  Marquette hasn't been elite since, and the game of college basketball is wildly different now than it was then.   Since that time, Marquette has spent a large potion of their time in mid major conferences.  Since 2000, Marquette has been a very good program, but even then still only made the tournament 12 of 20 seasons (60%). Since MU moved to the Big East in 05-06, they've made 10/14 tournaments (72%). You could maybe argue Buzz had them approaching elite status, and those years were certainly fun (as a 2012 grad, it certainly got me hooked), but even then, there were multiple teams that were right near the NCAA cutline.

At the end of the day, I just think what you expect is mostly unrealistic.  Can MU replicate what Crean and Buzz had - making the tournament 8 or 9 times of out of ten seasons, and bounce between bubble type teams and top 15-25 types every couple years?  For sure.  I'm still not sure I would call that elite. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 26, 2019, 12:43:13 PM
People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

This
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 01:07:29 PM
J5

I have been consistent on here for years. We are NOT going to relive the Al glory days, for many reasons. I have said countless times, give me a program with the success Xavier has had (I knowing lacking March wins) for two decades and I would call it a success. That said, 'nova and the zags have build something pretty special and they should be the goal for what program can be.

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: forgetful on April 26, 2019, 01:21:57 PM

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.

Buzz's last year we were 17-15. They were predicted to win the BE. We missed the tournament. That team that went 17-15, lost Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, and Chris Otule.

Tell me again how things under Buzz were trending upward.  How many games did you expect him to win if he stayed.

The facts here completely disagree with your statement.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 26, 2019, 01:24:44 PM
Goose,

           This quote I feel is applicable to the vast majority here.."Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity".

I suggest you use your own advice when handling your money. Don’t be realistic- shoot to invest in companies that promise glorious returns.

Oh......... good luck. Let us know how it goes
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 26, 2019, 01:27:25 PM
J5

I have been consistent on here for years. We are NOT going to relive the Al glory days, for many reasons. I have said countless times, give me a program with the success Xavier has had (I knowing lacking March wins) for two decades and I would call it a success. That said, 'nova and the zags have build something pretty special and they should be the goal for what program can be.

Again, I am not unrealistic. Buzz's program and success looked awfully good to me. Were they elite, probably not, but were trending upward. Believe me or not, I am quite realistic. IMO, the crowd that believes Wojo inherited a dumpster fire, needs another year and losing the Hausers is not a big deal are the unrealistic folks on here.

FWIW - that question was directed at guru. I don’t think our opinions are all that different at the end of the day - we just express it a little differently.

I don’t think Wojos last 3 seasons and next season will be all that different from Buzz’s tenure results wise. Which is why I am not jumping off a cliff.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 26, 2019, 01:31:25 PM
"You play to win the game"



Nah, play angry, hey?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2019, 01:50:26 PM
Mike,

I acknowledged I picked one sentence out of your post, and acknowledged that I understood your premise. We likely agree on 90% of the type of kid to recruit and how to recruit them. Funny thing, you noted how Rick used to recruit the Mom and that probably is true to this day. Sadly, for some kids I would recruit, the appeal of seeing multi millionaires strutting their stuff at the Fiserv might mean more than their child getting an education.

I will add, that I do not agree with you on the Jalen Johnson's of the world, especially in today's world. I have said many times that I love Wojo swinging for the fences by recruiting stars. He may have come up short, but likely much closer than many on here know. Wojo's value, IMO, is he might land a whale. If he does, the second is easier.

I do apologize if I misrepresented you, and thought I had made that clear in original reply to you. You state your case far better than I ever state mine.

Lastly, please remember that I do believe that Wojo has a chance at landing a whale. No BS, I truly believe that.

I appreciate this post, Goose.

I also believe Wojo has a chance to land a whale. Some could argue pretty successfully that he already has, given that he signed a 1-and-done burger boy who also was being recruited by Michigan State, Duke, Kentucky and others. (And many Scoopers have argued that getting Ellenson actually hurt the program's progress, which seems absurd to me.)

Wojo also got Markus, whom many believe would have been a 5-star (or close to it) had he reclassified earlier. He also got Joey, a 4.5-star who was being recruited by bluebloods. And of course he got Sam, whom you have called an all-time Marquette great, and who serves as proof that every player need not be a 4-star or 5-star.

I don't really think we disagree on what kind of player Wojo should pursue at all. I absolutely think he should go all-out for the Jalen Johnsons of the world, that he should swing for the fences. I just believe that he simultaneously should swing for solid doubles into the gap. Otherwise, if he swings and misses while going only for home runs, he could end up with a bunch of Chris Davises in his recruiting classes. I think he can go for the stars AND other very good players; that's what successful non-bluebloods do. Buzz and Crean did.

We agree on most of this, that's for sure. I want us to be great again. As you said in your answer to JJJJJJJJJJJJJ, I'd "settle" for Buzz-level success while trying to build for something even better.  And like you, I have doubts about whether Wojo can get us there. I think I'm probably more likely to give Wojo credit for some of his successes so far, but I assure you that I'm skeptical of whether it will happen under him.

We are Marquette!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NickelDimer on April 26, 2019, 02:28:25 PM
Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday?
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Goose on April 26, 2019, 02:33:09 PM
Dimer

Of course it is silly. Chico's loves to rile up folks. We all want MU to win and do not care who is running the ship.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 26, 2019, 02:35:52 PM
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly

I think the point is that the most ardent wojo haters would rather see the team flop and recruiting flop this year to oust wojo rather than see the team be respectable enough to buy him another year. Nobody in their right mind is claiming that you are actually rooting against MU.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Charlotte Warrior on April 26, 2019, 02:44:45 PM
Buzz's last year we were 17-15. They were predicted to win the BE. We missed the tournament. That team that went 17-15, lost Davante Gardner, Jamil Wilson, and Chris Otule.

Tell me again how things under Buzz were trending upward.  How many games did you expect him to win if he stayed.

The facts here completely disagree with your statement.

139-69 over seven years, 6 tourneys, 2 s16 1 E8 and Vander left a year early or the season isn't lost.  Goodbye troll.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2019, 02:51:26 PM
139-69 over seven years, 6 tourneys, 2 s16 1 E8 and Vander left a year early or the season isn't lost.  Goodbye troll.

Troll???  Pretty sure he's been here awhile.

Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 26, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
Marquette has never consistently landed classes full of top 50 talent.  Sure, they've landed a few here and there, generally from the state of Wisconsin, but its never been consistent.  Not sure why you expect that to suddenly change?

You always say you want Marquette to be ELITE again.  I wasn't alive in 1970s, and they definitely were elite then, but that is now 40+ years ago.  Marquette hasn't been elite since, and the game of college basketball is wildly different now than it was then.   Since that time, Marquette has spent a large potion of their time in mid major conferences.  Since 2000, Marquette has been a very good program, but even then still only made the tournament 12 of 20 seasons (60%). Since MU moved to the Big East in 05-06, they've made 10/14 tournaments (72%). You could maybe argue Buzz had them approaching elite status, and those years were certainly fun (as a 2012 grad, it certainly got me hooked), but even then, there were multiple teams that were right near the NCAA cutline.

At the end of the day, I just think what you expect is mostly unrealistic.  Can MU replicate what Crean and Buzz had - making the tournament 8 or 9 times of out of ten seasons, and bounce between bubble type teams and top 15-25 types every couple years?  For sure.  I'm still not sure I would call that elite.
MU was at the top of the pecking order back in the day. In my view number 2 after the great UCLA teams it was a great feeling back then . MU can get there again. Nova did so no reason MU can’t
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2019, 03:27:11 PM
Troll???  Pretty sure he's been here awhile.

Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years.

I think we probably make the tournament if we have Vander, despite that team's other shortcomings.

But the fact is that we didn't have Vander and Buzz wasn't prepared for it. Scoopers have just spent 2 weeks stating that the head coach is the CEO of the organization and is responsible for everything that happens. Even though I've generally been a Wojo supporter, I hold him mostly responsible for Hausershima. Having to start the worst backcourt in Marquette history ... that is just about entirely on Buzz.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 26, 2019, 03:54:31 PM
People do not know how to define mediocrity.  It has become anything less than elite, which is ridiculous.  That’s the problem.

A little help for you...here is the official definition of mediocre:

mediocre
[ mee-dee-oh-ker ]
|

adjective
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:
not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

So I think it's 100% fair to say, it's how one personally defines it. "not satisfactory" pretty much sums it up I'd say.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: CTWarrior on April 26, 2019, 03:59:21 PM
Some MU fans want the coach fired immediately and have said so, thus how can they be cheering for him to succeed if they want him gone yesterday?
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 26, 2019, 04:02:31 PM
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

Said this on another thread but the sentiment seems to be that the fire Wojo crowd wants him gone so badly they'd rather tank the season than even have another NCAA appearance. Essentially rooting against MU for the year (maybe two) but still rooting for the program.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 26, 2019, 04:03:43 PM
Vander was good, but his departure wasn't turning a 17-15 team into a Sweet 16 type team.  That team had serious flaws.  Buzz's had some bad years recruiting wise which means guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Jake Thomas were asked to play roles way above their skill level.  Vander wasn't fixing that.

And he wasn't going to have much of a team in 2014-15 either.  Recruiting was looking good beyond that, but Buzz was due for some down years.

Worth remembering Jamaal McKay also left that team on the brink of the season start. If things stayed as we expected, his 2014-15 roster would've had McKay, Fischer, Burton, Juan, Shayok, and Cohen in the frontcourt. The backcourt would've been Duane, Derrick, Jajuan Johnson, & Ahmed Hill. It would've been a young group, but there's legit talent and upside.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 26, 2019, 04:55:10 PM
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

I agree.  Thinking he’s not the one and rooting for him to fail are two concepts.  If folks are saying that, fine to call them out specifically. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MUfan12 on April 26, 2019, 05:53:16 PM


Nah, play angry, hey?

Don't be dismayed, hey?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NickelDimer on April 26, 2019, 07:50:07 PM
I think the point is that the most ardent wojo haters would rather see the team flop and recruiting flop this year to oust wojo rather than see the team be respectable enough to buy him another year. Nobody in their right mind is claiming that you are actually rooting against MU.
With exception of a couple of grossly irrational fans, no
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 26, 2019, 08:00:29 PM
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.

Absolutely correct. I'm not one of the "Fire Wojo" group, but I don't for a minute think they want him/MU to lose. That's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
Because they want the best for their team. They’re not mutually exclusive. Even the most anti Wojo fans of Marquette would love nothing more than for him to suddenly become John Wooden and win multiple NCAA Championships. To think otherwise is silly

When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 08:11:20 PM
A little help for you...here is the official definition of mediocre:

mediocre
[ mee-dee-oh-ker ]
|

adjective
of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:
not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

So I think it's 100% fair to say, it's how one personally defines it. "not satisfactory" pretty much sums it up I'd say.

So making the tournament isn't good but mediocre, even though less than 20% of teams make it.  See, this is the problem.  I say making the NCAA tournament is good.  You call it mediocre....thus proving again that the definition you are using is ridiculous.

I didn't realize the NCAA tournament was accepting not good or bad teams, but merely mediocre teams....in fact, barely adequate.  Interesting....and we disagree.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 26, 2019, 08:33:45 PM
So making the tournament isn't good but mediocre, even though less than 20% of teams make it.  See, this is the problem.  I say making the NCAA tournament is good.  You call it mediocre....thus proving again that the definition you are using is ridiculous.

I didn't realize the NCAA tournament was accepting not good or bad teams, but merely mediocre teams....in fact, barely adequate.  Interesting....and we disagree.
A 24 win season is never mediocre. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 08:40:05 PM
A 24 win season is never mediocre.

100% agree, but clearly not everyone defines things the same way.  Apparently it is barely adequate, thus mediocre.  I find that preposterous.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 26, 2019, 09:34:40 PM
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.

Has someone said that? I remember one poster saying he hoped we lose during the last year of the Buzz era because it would force Buzz to sit Derrick and start Dawson, but I honestly don't remember anyone saying it during the Wojo era.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 26, 2019, 10:20:24 PM
Has someone said that? I remember one poster saying he hoped we lose during the last year of the Buzz era because it would force Buzz to sit Derrick and start Dawson, but I honestly don't remember anyone saying it during the Wojo era.

Of course nobody has said it, buy if Chico says it often enough he'll call it a fact!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 26, 2019, 10:59:40 PM
I don't understand your logic here at all.  The reason people want him fired is because they want to win and they think we aren't going to win with Wojo.  That is not the same as wanting him/MU to lose.  You can want him fired and still root for Marquette and hope you are wrong and I think most people who want him fired are in that boat.
I agree with this analysis.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2019, 11:05:49 PM
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim. 

chicos, you're gonna have to provide proof when you make such a claim. I do think there will be plenty of Scoopers screaming "I told you so" if Wojo fails, but that's not the same thing you are charging.

Maybe your memory is right, but if you're going to make such a wild accusation, you're obviously gonna get called on it, so you'd better be ready to provide evidence.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 26, 2019, 11:12:51 PM
I think you guys need to reread what I said. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 27, 2019, 12:16:15 AM
I think you guys need to reread what I said.

This is the only thing I am questioning.

When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.

So are you saying that someone on scoop posted that? Or have you heard it off of scoop? Or are you just guessing that there are people who have flat out said this?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 27, 2019, 12:36:36 AM
While I don't think anyone is saying that specifically, I do think there are fans rooting for Marquette but against Wojo. While it's contradictory on its face, I don't imagine they ever root for MU to lose in a game, but they want results that lead to his firing.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: bilsu on April 27, 2019, 03:32:43 AM
A 24 win season is never mediocre.
It is if you are Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky or Kansas.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NickelDimer on April 27, 2019, 08:58:51 AM
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
I’d agree if there are those saying that plainly. I haven’t seen that. Otoh there are those that want him fired today, but if retained will root for him tomorrow
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
I’d agree if there are those saying that plainly. I haven’t seen that. Otoh there are those that want him fired today, but if retained will root for him tomorrow

And with every loss will scream for more firing and with every win will be silent as church mice.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 09:54:49 AM
If you want him gone, and have categorically made up your mind he is not the guy and can never be the guy....there are a number that have publicly stated that here....then the only way to potential success as fast as possible is him leaving or being fired.  That means wanting him to fail because getting fired as soon as possible means having little success.... if you are so convinced he cannot be the guy, any bit of success only kicks the can down the road so people can then say,I TOLD YOU SO when a truly mediocre season happens.

We all know anyone saying I want him fired, but will cheer for success is full of crap IF they are convinced he can never be the messiah they want.  Now, if they want him fired, but also cheer for success in the hopes he can be the guy....that is different.  That is not how everyone in the fire Wojo camp is aligned and their own words here bear that out.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 27, 2019, 10:23:25 AM
If you want him gone, and have categorically made up your mind he is not the guy and can never be the guy....there are a number that have publicly stated that here....then the only way to potential success as fast as possible is him leaving or being fired.  That means wanting him to fail because getting fired as soon as possible means having little success.... if you are so convinced he cannot be the guy, any bit of success only kicks the can down the road so people can then say,I TOLD YOU SO when a truly mediocre season happens.

We all know anyone saying I want him fired, but will cheer for success is full of crap IF they are convinced he can never be the messiah they want.  Now, if they want him fired, but also cheer for success in the hopes he can be the guy....that is different.  That is not how everyone in the fire Wojo camp is aligned and their own words here bear that out.

Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 27, 2019, 10:33:55 AM
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

This is a better description of what I meant. Well said, Lennys. Cheering for the team to win while knowing the guy in charge isn't the one you want.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: willie warrior on April 27, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
When some of those fans flat out say I hope we lose to get rid of him, that contradicts your claim.  You didn't say that, nor am I claiming you did.  There are fans that do.  Just as their are fans that wanted McCarthy and Packers to lose so he would get canned.  To think otherwise is silly.
Was Rodgers one of those fsns.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 27, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

Spot on Lenny, chicos is an agitator only.  No original thoughts, nothing of value to add,  just a acomplete dbag at every turn
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 12:24:55 PM
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.

Then you didn't read what I said.  You fall into the latter group, not the former.

IF you know the guy is absolutely NOT the guy and will NEVER be the guy, why on earth would you want him to continue to damage the program and keep us from being elite, or whatever dream sequence people are thinking? Why?  It makes no sense. You would want it to end as soon as possible to get the next guy in, otherwise you are just perpetuating "mediocrity" or whatever ridiculous statement of the current program. 

It was like watching some IU fans pissed off that Crean won the Big Ten his second to last year, because it meant he was sticking around.  And of course those same fans bitching nonstop at his replacement and wanting him out now.  It's like watching some Americans pissed off at good economic news because it might mean a leader they hate sticks around.  This happens, a lot more than you care to admit. 

Now, if you think he might not be the guy, but you aren't sure....and you want the team to win in the hopes that you are wrong...that's different.  But logic defies someone that is absolutely convinced that the guy cannot get it done, thinks and DEMANDS we be better than we are and desires a change to also be cheering on the team knowing any success protracts the inevitable justice that fan deserves they are entitled to.  And all the while, those fans that want him out, will be silent or give golf claps during success, but will howl, bitch, complain and roll out the firing nonsense when things aren't great.

This is why ultimately those that want Wojo out will probably get their way, because he will see this, probably already feels it and will move on rather than put up with that crap.  Then we cycle through again and again and again and again.  So much fun.  We want stability, we have no patience for it and we cannot wait to kill off anyone that tries.  What a fanbase....we deserve our instability quite frankly.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
This is a better description of what I meant. Well said, Lennys. Cheering for the team to win while knowing the guy in charge isn't the one you want.

That's different than what I am saying.  Not the guy you want, vs believing in all your core fiber that the guy cannot get it done and is only damaging the program that you think not only is better but should be better, why bother?  Why put the emotion investment, financial investment, etc....if you are so convinced he cannot get it done and any success just means he stays around longer...why?  Why would one put an ounce of energy into that....UNLESS they are also hopeful they are wrong, and he pulls it off?

This will turn out like it always does.  Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Final Four wasn't good enough because of how we lost.....to a wild swing of We cannot win unless the AD and President capitulate to the coach and can do whatever he wants.  Stability....who needs that.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 27, 2019, 02:56:11 PM
That's different than what I am saying.  Not the guy you want, vs believing in all your core fiber that the guy cannot get it done and is only damaging the program that you think not only is better but should be better, why bother?  Why put the emotion investment, financial investment, etc....if you are so convinced he cannot get it done and any success just means he stays around longer...why?  Why would one put an ounce of energy into that....UNLESS they are also hopeful they are wrong, and he pulls it off?

This will turn out like it always does.  Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Final Four wasn't good enough because of how we lost.....to a wild swing of We cannot win unless the AD and President capitulate to the coach and can do whatever he wants.  Stability....who needs that.

“Once you have experienced excellence, you will never again be content with mediocrity.” Thomas S. Monson
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: LloydsLegs on April 27, 2019, 03:40:59 PM
Why the unnatural carnal knowledge would anyone care what Thomas Monson has to say about anything?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 27, 2019, 03:43:34 PM
“Once you have experienced excellence, you will never again be content with mediocrity.” Thomas S. Monson

Probably why I’m still content with Scoop.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: willie warrior on April 27, 2019, 04:16:53 PM
A 24 win season is never mediocre.
But blowing it out your ass by losing 6 of last 7 and getting your ass kicked by a mediocre mid major in first round of dance is less than mediocre--it is attocious.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 27, 2019, 04:56:34 PM
But blowing it out your ass by losing 6 of last 7 and getting your ass kicked by a mediocre mid major in first round of dance is less than mediocre--it is attocious.

“Mediocre mid major” “it is attocious”

That’s gold, Jerry
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 05:50:36 PM
But blowing it out your ass by losing 6 of last 7 and getting your ass kicked by a mediocre mid major in first round of dance is less than mediocre--it is attocious.


Hilarious.  Mediocre mid major...ok.

Your very first post on this board was   "WHAT A JOKE!"   A few posts later in 2008 you said "NIT HERE WE COME".  Then went on to say Crean had brought nothing in (recruits).  You went on to say that we could have had Bo Ryan twice, but took a pass.   

You are awesome.  Your comments at the end of each year are especially magical....and consistent.  Must suck to be miserable in life.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 27, 2019, 05:55:12 PM
Total, unmitigated BS.

I knew Bob Dukiet wasn't the answer pretty early on. Thought is was pretty much inevitable the powers that be would eventually come to the same conclusion. But I cheered for MU in every one of those games that REGRETTABLY proved me right, all the while hoping to be proven wrong.

I believe you're projecting here. If you're looking for anyone on this board to whom being right (or at least be able to argue the point) trumps everything - look in the mirror.
I am in the fire Wojo now camp. However , my view is the best way to get rid of him is for the team  to have a good season . That makes him more attractive to be fired away and the likelihood of his buyout being paid is higher. Winning is the best antidote for everything .

To me that is the best outcome for MU. Someone else thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the street and pays MU for the privilege of taking a problem off its hands. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: hairy worthen on April 27, 2019, 06:11:42 PM

Hilarious.  Mediocre mid major...ok.

Your very first post on this board was   "WHAT A JOKE!"   A few posts later in 2008 you said "NIT HERE WE COME".  Then went on to say Crean had brought nothing in (recruits).  You went on to say that we could have had Bo Ryan twice, but took a pass.   

You are awesome.  Your comments at the end of each year are especially magical....and consistent.  Must suck to be miserable in life.
Murray state got their ass handed to them by a team that subsequently got their ass handed to them. Lets not pretend Murray state was the second coming of Woodens ucla teams. medicore mid major? Maybe not, but not too far from the truth. Certainly not a team that should be embarrassing a 5 seed Marquette team.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 27, 2019, 06:28:01 PM
Murray state got their ass handed to them by a team that subsequently got their ass handed to them. Lets not pretend Murray state was the second coming of Woodens ucla teams. medicore mid major? Maybe not, but not too far from the truth. Certainly not a team that should be embarrassing a 5 seed Marquette team.

Murray State lost to a Florida State team that finished Ken Pom as #14 in the nation.  The FSU team that beat Virginia, beat Louisville, lost to Duke by 2, beat Purdue, beat LSU, beat Virginia Tech and Florida.

FSU got their ass handed to them by Gonzaga?  Trailing 60-56 with 3 minutes and change left in the game?  Priceless.   Yeah, it couldn't possibly have been fouling at the end and 8 free throw attempts for Gonzaga in the final 2 minutes....nope...they had their asses handed to them.   :o

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 27, 2019, 06:39:22 PM
Murray State lost to a Florida State team that finished Ken Pom as #14 in the nation.  The FSU team that beat Virginia, beat Louisville, lost to Duke by 2, beat Purdue, beat LSU, beat Virginia Tech and Florida.

FSU got their ass handed to them by Gonzaga?  Trailing 60-56 with 3 minutes and change left in the game?  Priceless.   Yeah, it couldn't possibly have been fouling at the end and 8 free throw attempts for Gonzaga in the final 2 minutes....nope...they had their asses handed to them.   :o

“Be fearful of mediocrity.” Jonathan Elery
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: PTM on April 27, 2019, 06:42:15 PM
“Be fearful of mediocrity.” Jonathan Elery

"I'm thinking different. I'm thinking Arby's."

- Arby's
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: hairy worthen on April 27, 2019, 06:50:12 PM
Murray State lost to a Florida State team that finished Ken Pom as #14 in the nation.  The FSU team that beat Virginia, beat Louisville, lost to Duke by 2, beat Purdue, beat LSU, beat Virginia Tech and Florida.

FSU got their ass handed to them by Gonzaga?  Trailing 60-56 with 3 minutes and change left in the game?  Priceless.   Yeah, it couldn't possibly have been fouling at the end and 8 free throw attempts for Gonzaga in the final 2 minutes....nope...they had their asses handed to them.   :o
Im not getting into a pissing match with you. Murray State was no juggernaut.  The only thing priceless is you assertion that it was. Stop trying to rationalize MU's meltdown, you are losing any small amount of credibility you still have.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: fjm on April 27, 2019, 07:27:15 PM
“Be fearful of mediocrity.” Jonathan Elery

At first you were always negative Guru.

Wouldn’t show up unless we lost.

Then started showing up when we were winning. And became almost enjoyable.

Then you got hung up on weird things you were positive you were right about even though facts stated different.

Then you became negative again.

And now you clearly googled “mediocrity quotes” or you have a lot of mediocre motivational posters around you. Because your responses are just mediocre quotes.

And those quotes...

Are mediocre at best. I expected better from you.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 27, 2019, 07:31:21 PM
“Once you have experienced excellence, you will never again be content with mediocrity.” Thomas S. Monson



Didnit hee ewesa coach Gonzaga and Minnesota, hey?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 27, 2019, 07:54:43 PM
At first you were always negative Guru.

Wouldn’t show up unless we lost.

Then started showing up when we were winning. And became almost enjoyable.

Then you got hung up on weird things you were positive you were right about even though facts stated different.

Then you became negative again.

And now you clearly googled “mediocrity quotes” or you have a lot of mediocre motivational posters around you. Because your responses are just mediocre quotes.

And those quotes...

Are mediocre at best. I expected better from you.

“Anyone in any walk of life who is content with mediocrity is untrue to himself.” George S. Patton Jr
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JakeBarnes on April 28, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
“Anyone in any walk of life who is content with mediocrity is untrue to himself.” George S. Patton Jr

" Staples. Yeah, we got that."
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:08:35 AM
Im not getting into a pissing match with you. Murray State was no juggernaut.  The only thing priceless is you assertion that it was. Stop trying to rationalize MU's meltdown, you are losing any small amount of credibility you still have.

You made a false statement about how Murray State lost to FSU...a simple acknowledgement would have been fine.  Murray State was a bad matchup for us, that’s the way it goes.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 28, 2019, 09:17:20 AM
I predicted a double digit loss to Murray State and I predicted why.  MU had gotten torched by alpha guards down the stretch and Ja was better than any of them.   In hindsight, a team at war with itself is never a good thing.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 09:18:19 AM
You made a false statement about how Murray State lost to FSU...a simple acknowledgement would have been fine.  Murray State was a bad matchup for us, that’s the way it goes.

"No one chooses mediocrity but many settle for it. Never settle.”
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:18:28 AM
“Anyone in any walk of life who is content with mediocrity is untrue to himself.” George S. Patton Jr


We aren’t mediocre, this is why your analogy is so stupid.  No one wants mediocre, making the ncaa tournament isn’t mediocre.  Will Smith quotes.....fantastic.

I’ll top that....words to live by....

“I think I am smart, unless I am really, really in love, and then I am ridiculously stupid”
Taylor Swift


https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/taylor_swift_579540?src=t_stupid
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:30:04 AM
"No one chooses mediocrity but many settle for it. Never settle.”

Mediocre = common, average.

When less than 20% of schools make the tournament that is neither common or average.  Perhaps you should come up with new quotes about changing the definition of words to fit a meaning only you recognize.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 09:30:08 AM

We aren’t mediocre, this is why your analogy is so stupid.  No one wants mediocre, making the ncaa tournament isn’t mediocre.  Will Smith quotes.....fantastic.

I’ll top that....words to live by....

“I think I am smart, unless I am really, really in love, and then I am ridiculously stupid”
Taylor Swift


https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/taylor_swift_579540?src=t_stupid

You're content with what/where MU is as a program...your prerogative. But I assure you you're "settling". Others of us, look at what Buzz accomplished...two sweet 16's, and an Elite 8, or Crean...a Final four, and when you compare the programs then, as to opposed to now..there is simply no other way to put it...the results have been mediocre. That's simply not good enough.

“The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.” Maureen Dowd   Bingo!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 28, 2019, 09:31:29 AM
“I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking”
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
You're content with what/where MU is as a program...your prerogative. But I assure you you're "settling". Others of us, look at what Buzz accomplished...two sweet 16's, and an Elite 8, or Crean...a Final four, and when you compare the programs then, as to opposed to now..there is simply no other way to put it...the results have been mediocre. That's simply not good enough.

“The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.” Maureen Dowd   Bingo!

I’m not settling for a damn thing.  You don’t know what the meaning of mediocre is and every time you trot it out there you expose yourself.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 28, 2019, 09:36:07 AM
I for one think it's hilarious that guru is quoting Maureen Dowd.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 28, 2019, 09:40:57 AM
You're content with what/where MU is as a program...your prerogative. But I assure you you're "settling". Others of us, look at what Buzz accomplished...two sweet 16's, and an Elite 8, or Crean...a Final four, and when you compare the programs then, as to opposed to now..there is simply no other way to put it...the results have been mediocre. That's simply not good enough.

“The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.” Maureen Dowd   Bingo!

The first of those sweet 16s we were extremely mediocre. A heck of a lot more mediocre than this year. And the 5 years prior we had 7,8, and three 6 seeds. If your thesis is that a 5 seed is mediocre then of that 8yr stretch we were mediocre for all but 2 yrs and in the entirety of Buzz and Crean we weren't mediocre for 3yrs.

Considering how much you pine for those days that pretty poor in 15yrs.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2019, 09:46:40 AM
Mediocre = common, average.

When less than 20% of schools make the tournament that is neither common or average.  Perhaps you should come up with new quotes about changing the definition of words to fit a meaning only you recognize.
To play devil's advocate,  confine the % to P6 schools.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 10:06:40 AM
To play devil's advocate,  confine the % to P6 schools.

Of course the % will go up, but it will still be less than 50%.  In our own conference 40% made it, with St John’s being the last team into the tournament.  We were one of the 4.  PAC 12 had 3 of 12.  Big Ten had 8 of 16.  Etc
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 10:13:54 AM
I’m not settling for a damn thing.  You don’t know what the meaning of mediocre is and every time you trot it out there you expose yourself.

Settling is exactly what you are doing...you have stated numerous times about how a program like MU should be happy with making the tournament etc etc. And citing Wojo's upwards trajectory as an accomplishment etc. In other words, you are content with where the program is currently, and even small gains in future years will be satisfactory to you. Then you go on to blast people(like me), that want/think the program can be elite again. You are the exact definition of "settling" my friend. It's not just you though, it's MANY MANY MANY others here. Which then would have you circle back to "I accept the reality of what type of program MU is/can be". Which then allows me to remind you:

"Being realistic is the quickest path to mediocrity"

As far as not knowing what the definition is...I am well aware of what the definition is, I posted it in this thread or another, I can't remember. The difference being...YOU don't see it as mediocre because you use the results and compare it to other "schools on the same level as MU". I use it in comparison to schools like the Elite's, the bluebloods, because that is where i want to see the program go. Because I, unlike most others here will NOT settle. Because again...

"Being realistic is the quickest path to mediocrity"

I don't do "mediocre". I don't "settle". Others here do(incuding you). That's fine.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 10:29:02 AM
Guru

Read what you just wrote.  If I am ok with upward trajectory, doesn’t that mean they are improving and I am not settling?

Lol.  If they were flat or going the other way, you would have a point....but that isn’t what has happened.

I’ve also said many times I don’t know if he is the guy, but as long as we are making progress and going the right direction then I will stick with him.  How is making progress settling?  How is doing better than previous years not improving and mediocre.  You literally are making up new definitions to words.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2019, 11:28:36 AM
Of course the % will go up, but it will still be less than 50%.  In our own conference 40% made it, with St John’s being the last team into the tournament.  We were one of the 4.  PAC 12 had 3 of 12.  Big Ten had 8 of 16.  Etc
yes. So, one could argue we have been a mediocre P6 team under Wojo
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 11:43:19 AM
yes. So, one could argue we have been a mediocre P6 team under Wojo

This past season, we made the NCAA tournament....the average For P6 teams did not.

The definition of mediocrity seems to have changed from what the dictionaries say.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 28, 2019, 11:49:54 AM
Marquette should have higher standards than being an average P6 team.  Arguing over word definitions doesn't change that.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 11:52:42 AM
Marquette should have higher standards than being an average P6 team.  Arguing over word definitions doesn't change that.

That’s fine....and a different argument, but then use those words and stop making words that have different definitions applicable to drive an agenda.

Making the ncaa tournament is not mediocre. Period.


Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 28, 2019, 12:06:56 PM
Any over under guesses on how many times Rainman says mediocre over the next two weeks? 

He clearly blew away the over on Crapshoot.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 28, 2019, 12:07:13 PM
People are using mediocre in comparison to the standards for Marquette basketball. Not compared to the likes of Ole Miss and Rutgers.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 28, 2019, 12:17:11 PM
That’s fine....and a different argument, but then use those words and stop making words that have different definitions applicable to drive an agenda.

Making the ncaa tournament is not mediocre. Period.

Out of the mouths of babes....

(http://uncommonthinking.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/mubb-wojo-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
People are using mediocre in comparison to the standards for Marquette basketball. Not compared to the likes of Ole Miss and Rutgers.

Bingo!! Not sure why Chicos wants to use schools like Ole miss and Rutgers in his argument. It has NOTHING to do with them, or how many schools make the NCAA's or anything. It simply has to do with your expectations for MARQUETTE basketball independent of the other 350+ teams in college basketball.

So, if we look at the dictionary.com definition of the word:

1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:

2. not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

If you break it down using simply the two bolded parts of the EXACT definition of the word mediocre...to Chicos...he would say MU's program does NOT fit either definition of the term...to me(and others) based on MY(our) expectations of where the MU BB program(not any other program) should be this last season(and all 5 years under Wojo) have been EXACTLY the bolded parts...neither good or bad; barely adequate, and not satisfactory.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 12:21:33 PM
Any over under guesses on how many times Rainman says mediocre over the next two weeks? 

He clearly blew away the over on Crapshoot.

There you are! I made you an offer on a bet for next year, and ever since then you haven't been around. I figured...you know your full of sh*t and talk a good game, but when it comes to putting the $ where your mouth is, you run away and hide.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 28, 2019, 01:01:49 PM
There you are! I made you an offer on a bet for next year, and ever since then you haven't been around. I figured...you know your full of sh*t and talk a good game, but when it comes to putting the $ where your mouth is, you run away and hide.

Pop a few Geritol and look around I havent gone anywhere.  Nevertheless, your wager was so convoluted and rambling, like most of your posts, that i had zero luck in determining what u were actually wagering.  Only thing i understood was u leaving the board, which i found very appealing.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 28, 2019, 01:02:32 PM
You're content with what/where MU is as a program...your prerogative. But I assure you you're "settling". Others of us, look at what Buzz accomplished...two sweet 16's, and an Elite 8, or Crean...a Final four, and when you compare the programs then, as to opposed to now..there is simply no other way to put it...the results have been mediocre. That's simply not good enough.

“The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.” Maureen Dowd   Bingo!
Not a fan of Maureen Dowd editorial content usually; however, she is spot on. I do however think Maureen is very desirable and luscious sultry bu487sty red head.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: avid1010 on April 28, 2019, 01:09:31 PM
There you are! I made you an offer on a bet for next year, and ever since then you haven't been around. I figured...you know your full of sh*t and talk a good game, but when it comes to putting the $ where your mouth is, you run away and hide.

Love the Will Smith quote...you ever see his movie "Concussion?"  😆
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 01:10:29 PM
Pop a few Geritol and look around I havent gone anywhere.  Nevertheless, your wager was so convoluted and rambling, like most of your posts, that i had zero luck in determining what u were actually wagering.  Only thing i understood was u leaving the board, which i found very appealing.

No, the bet was...you keep going on and on and on about how good MU will be next year...so the bet was...if you are THAT confident, let's make a deal...they were projected to be a top 10 team, and in theory a top 1-2 seed next year in the NCAA's. You keep saying how they will be better without the Hauser's...okay...if that's your theory, let's test it, if MU is still a preseason top 10 team going into next year(or hell at anytime next year for an extended period of time), then I will leave the board permanently..if they aren't, then you leave the board permanently. And believe me, I hope I lose this bet(because that means that MU was really good). Deal??
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 01:12:54 PM
Not a fan of Maureen Dowd editorial content usually however she is spot on. I do however think Maureen is very desirable and luscious sultry bu487sty red head.

For the record, I can't stand her either, but the quote is apropo
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 28, 2019, 01:16:56 PM
For the record, I can't stand her either, but the quote is apropo


I find your spelling to be mediocre.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: real chili 83 on April 28, 2019, 01:58:33 PM
 ND sucks
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 02:20:05 PM
Out of the mouths of babes....

(http://uncommonthinking.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/mubb-wojo-2.jpg)

Winning every day is a t-shirt slogan and a bumper sticker.  It also means you can win by losing, something Kevin O’Neill used to say...some of the most important wins come immediately after losses or failures.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 02:24:03 PM
Bingo!! Not sure why Chicos wants to use schools like Ole miss and Rutgers in his argument. It has NOTHING to do with them, or how many schools make the NCAA's or anything. It simply has to do with your expectations for MARQUETTE basketball independent of the other 350+ teams in college basketball.

So, if we look at the dictionary.com definition of the word:

1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate:

2. not satisfactory; poor; inferior:

If you break it down using simply the two bolded parts of the EXACT definition of the word mediocre...to Chicos...he would say MU's program does NOT fit either definition of the term...to me(and others) based on MY(our) expectations of where the MU BB program(not any other program) should be this last season(and all 5 years under Wojo) have been EXACTLY the bolded parts...neither good or bad; barely adequate, and not satisfactory.

Not satisfactory in the same definition as poor and inferior....I rest my case.  Making the ncaa tournament is not poor, not inferior.

I got news for you....with your definition of not being mediocre, MU has achieved that less than 20 times in 100 years.   I guess we are mediocre program then with a few bright spots sprinkled in....oh, and that can be said about 97% of all programs.  Oh well....here’s to mediocrity as you define it.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2019, 02:32:22 PM
Winning every day is a t-shirt slogan and a bumper sticker.  It also means you can win by losing, something Kevin O’Neill used to say...some of the most important wins come immediately after losses or failures.

"Win every day" means "You can win by losing"? In what universe?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Loose Cannon on April 28, 2019, 02:40:16 PM


Addition by Subtraction, maybe.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NickelDimer on April 28, 2019, 02:41:18 PM
So what I’ve learned in this tread is we’re slightly better than mediocre. WOO HOO!!!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 03:05:00 PM
Not satisfactory in the same definition as poor and inferior....I rest my case.  Making the ncaa tournament is not poor, not inferior.

I got news for you....with your definition of not being mediocre, MU has achieved that less than 20 times in 100 years.   I guess we are mediocre program then with a few bright spots sprinkled in....oh, and that can be said about 97% of all programs.  Oh well....here’s to mediocrity as you define it.

“It's a disease. Nobody thinks or feels or cares any more; nobody gets excited or believes in anything except their own comfortable little God damn mediocrity.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

“Mediocrity will never do. You are capable of something better.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley

“You will never see an eagle of distinction flying low with pigeons of mediocrity.” Onyi Anyado
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: willie warrior on April 28, 2019, 03:18:12 PM

Hilarious.  Mediocre mid major...ok.

Your very first post on this board was   "WHAT A JOKE!"   A few posts later in 2008 you said "NIT HERE WE COME".  Then went on to say Crean had brought nothing in (recruits).  You went on to say that we could have had Bo Ryan twice, but took a pass.   

You are awesome.  Your comments at the end of each year are especially magical....and consistent.  Must suck to be miserable in life.
Speaking of sucking in life, you must take the cake there by going back and reading my posts from 12 years ago. I dont know what my first post was in 2006 or further  back and dont care.  But you must because you researched it.  I dont remember posting about RYan, however, he was way more successful than Crean.  Yes and thank you for the compliments of awesome and magical.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 28, 2019, 03:22:54 PM
Winning every day is a t-shirt slogan and a bumper sticker.  It also means you can win by losing, something Kevin O’Neill used to say...some of the most important wins come immediately after losses or failures.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EBLA703%2BL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 03:24:58 PM
So what I’ve learned in this tread is we’re slightly better than mediocre. WOO HOO!!!

What you should have learned is we had a top 25 team most of the year, finished 17th best in the eyes of the NCAA before the tournament, neither of which is mediocre or slightly above.  Yup, we had a terrible finish.  We were better than last year, better than Buzz’s last year, better than any time during the Wojo tenure.  We will see if it continues.

You have made up your mind, we all get it.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 03:43:53 PM
What you should have learned is we had a top 25 team most of the year, finished 17th best in the eyes of the NCAA before the tournament, neither of which is mediocre or slightly above. Yup, we had a terrible finish.  We were better than last year, better than Buzz’s last year, better than any time during the Wojo tenure.  We will see if it continues.

You have made up your mind, we all get it.


I will say this one more time Chicos...I layed it all out for you in an earlier post..You keep saying "making the NCAA tournament is NOT mediocre". Again, you are comparing it to 350+ other NCAA teams. NO ONE is talking about comparing it to other teams in the NCAA or at least a vast majority..It's all about your expectations for the MU program..for YOU making the NCAA's isn't mediocre. For YOU being a top 5 seed(even after a monumental collapse in which they were at LEAST a 3 seed prior to that) isn't mediocre because you are looking at it thru the lens in comparison to other schools that you feel MU should be compared to...Thru THAT lens(the one you choose to see it thru) the results are NOT mediocre...to others of us, and what we expect and want from the program, those results ARE mediocre. Pretty simple to understand...or so I thought.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 28, 2019, 03:48:03 PM

I will say this one more time Chicos...I layed it all out for you in an earlier post..You keep saying "making the NCAA tournament is NOT mediocre". Again, you are comparing it to 350+ other NCAA teams. NO ONE is talking about comparing it to other teams in the NCAA or at least a vast majority..It's all about your expectations for the MU program..for YOU making the NCAA's isn't mediocre. For YOU being a top 5 seed(even after a monumental collapse in which they were at LEAST a 3 seed prior to that) isn't mediocre because you are looking at it thru the lens in comparison to other schools that you feel MU should be compared to...Thru THAT lens(the one you choose to see it thru) the results are NOT mediocre...to others of us, and what we expect and want from the program, those results ARE mediocre. Pretty simple to understand...or so I thought.

Again we've had 3 nonmediocre years since 78 then. What indicator is there that we deserve better? I want more and I'd like more but expecting more at this point is irrational.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 28, 2019, 03:50:30 PM
What you should have learned is we had a top 25 team most of the year, finished 17th best in the eyes of the NCAA before the tournament, neither of which is mediocre or slightly above.  Yup, we had a terrible finish.  We were better than last year, better than Buzz’s last year, better than any time during the Wojo tenure.  We will see if it continues.

You have made up your mind, we all get it.
It is worth noting the NCAA has stated that they base the seeds on the full body of work over the course of the year. So yes, 17th was probably appropriate. However, the run rate of the team at the end of the year was indeed terrible and resulted in a beat down in the first round. Wheels came off the wagon and of course that happens to teams sometimes, Unfortunately for MU this disaster came at the worst time possible. Indeed at the end of the year the team was playing at a mediocre level.

So the question is whether or not the mediocre level was an aberration and MU reverts to where they were prior to the implosion and Hausergate. I believe the team will have a strong year. The record may not show it as the Big East , for the most part, looks to be improved. We should be able to deliver 20 plus overall wins and 10 plus conference wins.

The 2020 recruiting class is very important too. We have a lot of spots to give.  We need to be signing guys who have the clear potential to Big East starters without qualification. Not all the spots are going to be successfully filled, but we need enough to have the potential for  the percentages work in the teams favor.  Appears as if our guys are working the circuits hard and hopefully we get some good news early from certain of the guys we have offers out to , who have expressed positive vibes toward MU.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Newsdreams on April 28, 2019, 03:50:32 PM
Lots of people need to get laid. Insanity going on here.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 04:08:46 PM
Again we've had 3 nonmediocre years since 78 then. What indicator is there that we deserve better? I want more and I'd like more but expecting more at this point is irrational.

And again....“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.”
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 28, 2019, 04:12:01 PM
And again....“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.”

I don’t think anyone doesn’t want to dream big. Including Marquette administration. They just have more faith in Wojo to get them there than you do.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: lawdog77 on April 28, 2019, 04:15:25 PM
So what I’ve learned in this tread is we’re slightly better than mediocre. WOO HOO!!!
I would argue last year's overall results were good/very good, but overall the last 5 years have been mediocre. It's disingenuous to compare us to everyone in D-1.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lazar's Headband on April 28, 2019, 04:27:17 PM
"I have my own expectations.   I don't care about yours."  -Lazar's Headband
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 04:38:49 PM
I would argue last year's overall results were good/very good, but overall the last 5 years have been mediocre. It's disingenuous to compare us to everyone in D-1.

Rebuilds tend to do that, which is why trajectory matters.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 28, 2019, 04:42:39 PM
And again....“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.”

You know what? You're right. I DEMAND we get the NUMBER 1 RECRUIT EVERY YEAR!!! FIRE WOJO AND GET K HIMSELF!!!  WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP EVERY YEAR, HELL AL MCGUIRE WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE WOODEN SUCCESS!!!!!!!

You're right! being like you doesn't feel mediocre at all...
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 04:47:04 PM
You know what? You're right. I DEMAND we get the NUMBER 1 RECRUIT EVERY YEAR!!! FIRE WOJO AND GET K HIMSELF!!!  WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP EVERY YEAR, HELL AL MCGUIRE WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE WOODEN SUCCESS!!!!!!!

You're right! being like you doesn't feel mediocre at all...

Hey, that isn't my quote, I just posted it...bit this society does tend to reward mediocrity.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 28, 2019, 04:47:57 PM
Rebuilds tend to do that, which is why trajectory matters.

So now you're not disagreeing Wojo's tenure HAS been mediocre?? Interesting.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on April 28, 2019, 05:00:05 PM
You know what? You're right. I DEMAND we get the NUMBER 1 RECRUIT EVERY YEAR!!! FIRE WOJO AND GET K HIMSELF!!!  WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP EVERY YEAR, HELL AL MCGUIRE WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE WOODEN SUCCESS!!!!!!!

You're right! being like you doesn't feel mediocre at all...

How MU82 of you.  And I say that in a complimentary way.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on April 28, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
"You play to win the game"
Yes.  Right on.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 05:26:58 PM
So now you're not disagreeing Wojo's tenure HAS been mediocre?? Interesting.

Guru

When we were thinking of Wojo 5 years ago I asked people here to sell me on him.  I wanted an established coach, was tired of the assistant route.  My biggest concern was coming from Duke does that set you up for the realities of being at a school that isn’t Duke?  Could he teach, coach kids that weren’t more polished and athletic than most other recruits.

Now I still don’t know if he is the guy, but I would not characterize his tenure as mediocre if that’s what you mean.  Each coach has a different set of realities than others....different conferences, different commitments, different levels of local talent, facilities, tv deals, etc.  To compare one to another is just wrong without understanding that nuance.   He took over a team with a misaligned roster and fresh off a newly configured conference where some were predicting gloom and doom.  He did a rebuild for two years.  Since then, three postseason tournaments.  So no, I don’t think it was mediocre.  He didn’t walk into a roster like Buzz did after Crean. He didn’t walk into the same conference. Crean obviously hit a homer in with Wade, a kid he fought for to get in....if the administration said no, then what? 

I’m sticking with Wojo based on last three years, based on helping to get a second team All American playing for us at a high level, and an exciting brand of basketball.  I know you and a few others don’t give a rip about whether these kids stay off the police blotter, out of the headlines or are model citizens....some of us do...and it is good to see we can win without the ancillary nonsense.  If we start losing, no longer competing, etc, then I may change my position.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: real chili 83 on April 28, 2019, 05:48:21 PM
ND sucks
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2019, 05:55:07 PM
You know what? You're right. I DEMAND we get the NUMBER 1 RECRUIT EVERY YEAR!!! FIRE WOJO AND GET K HIMSELF!!!  WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP EVERY YEAR, HELL AL MCGUIRE WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HE DIDN"T HAVE WOODEN SUCCESS!!!!!!!

You're right! being like you doesn't feel mediocre at all...



Knot true, the McGuires had 3 kids, hey?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Newsdreams on April 28, 2019, 06:29:36 PM
This just keeps getting dumber and dumber.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2019, 07:49:31 PM
“It's a disease. Nobody thinks or feels or cares any more; nobody gets excited or believes in anything except their own comfortable little God damn mediocrity.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

“Mediocrity will never do. You are capable of something better.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley

“You will never see an eagle of distinction flying low with pigeons of mediocrity.” Onyi Anyado

Look who learned how to use the googles on the interwebs!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Bocephys on April 29, 2019, 05:28:10 AM
Look who learned how to use the googles on the interwebs!

Guru's definitely a Bing guy.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: pbiflyer on April 29, 2019, 07:27:37 AM
This just keeps getting dumber and dumber.

You must be new around here.  ;D
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TSmith34 on April 29, 2019, 07:52:33 AM
If there is anything more enjoyable than wading through a chico's/wee willie/guru/sand nut four-way pissing match, I certainly don't know what it is...

...unless it is taking your pants off and repeatedly slamming your balls in a car door.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: pbiflyer on April 29, 2019, 08:05:43 AM
If there is anything more enjoyable than wading through a chico's/wee willie/guru/sand nut four-way pissing match, I certainly don't know what it is...

...unless it is taking your pants off and repeatedly slamming your balls in a car door.

That truly made me laugh out loud! Well done.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Cheeks on April 29, 2019, 08:28:53 AM
If there is anything more enjoyable than wading through a chico's/wee willie/guru/sand nut four-way pissing match, I certainly don't know what it is...

...unless it is taking your pants off and repeatedly slamming your balls in a car door.

Hearing your conspiracy views is akin to ball crushing in car door....alas we get that treat every so often.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 29, 2019, 08:57:14 AM


Knot true, the McGuires had 3 kids, hey?
How bout Al's granddaughter, she was a 10 who could shoot the 3

https://mydotcomrade.com/hottest-nhl-wags/3/
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JakeBarnes on April 29, 2019, 09:51:20 AM
Guru's definitely a Bing guy.

He goes to alta vista and types "go to bing.com"
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: PTM on April 29, 2019, 10:00:57 AM
Guru's definitely a Bing guy.

Yahoo, no doubt.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 29, 2019, 11:07:37 AM
Yahoo, no doubt.
Oh, I don't know.  I think you're selling him short.  He could be rockin' AOL. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 12:31:56 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Loose Cannon on April 29, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.

I'm IN.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 29, 2019, 12:59:28 PM
Absolutely!
Would realky like yeboah too
A solid 3-4 that cannshoot an actualky play defense would be awesome.

People need to understand the top 5 ish tanking that were floating aroubd were higwash n MU could never have maintained that.

Watch MSu, duke, Uva, texas tech n the other top teams and the defense that they played.  Take MU next year with Howard and the two Hausers and u still have the same improved but not very good defensive team from last year. 
Was never gonna be a great team.  Yes we failed offensively down the stretch, but the defense was abysmal, Georgetown home game was vomit inducing.  Couldnt stop anyone or rebound down the stretch and much of that had to do with the Hauser sloths.
Get an athletic 4 along with this kid and throw in our returners that can actually defend n MU is gonna have a heck of a year.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Lazar's Headband on April 29, 2019, 01:17:03 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.

Sic 'em Wojo!
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 29, 2019, 01:43:39 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.

Coach Stan Johnson

I'm just seeing Blazing Saddles here.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2019, 01:48:19 PM


“You will never see an eagle of distinction flying low with pigeons of mediocrity.” Onyi Anyado

Where do seagulls fit on this spectrum?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: esotericmindguy on April 29, 2019, 01:54:25 PM
I'm IN.

For sure! A replacement for Heldt is exactly what this team needs...🙄
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Nukem2 on April 29, 2019, 01:56:18 PM
For sure! A replacement for Heldt is exactly what this team needs...🙄
He is a whole lot better than Heldt and would challenge Theo and Ed
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: KampusFoods on April 29, 2019, 02:05:37 PM
I'm pretty indifferent on JJ from a talent perspective but knowing the foul-prone nature of our big men, I'm all for adding some depth to the frontcourt. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 29, 2019, 02:20:48 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.

I'll be honest,  I don't see the fit unless we're going to start using Ed at the 4 which would take a retooling on the offensive scheme.

But, rebounding is one of our biggest concerns next season and he is one of the best currently on the market.

Hoping to land a visit with Yeboah, think he fits our needs pretty well.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: oldwarrior81 on April 29, 2019, 02:33:38 PM
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Source: Utah grad transfer Jayce Johnson will visit Marquette this weekend. 7-footer visited Nebraska last weekend. Averaged 7.1 PPG and 7.7 RPG. Immediately eligible.

Johnson attended a Chris Brown concert in Utah.  How many sleuths can spot the MU recruit in the photo?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE5v2X8UMAA5Ccc.jpg)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2019, 02:37:40 PM
I'll be honest,  I don't see the fit unless we're going to start using Ed at the 4 which would take a retooling on the offensive scheme.

But, rebounding is one of our biggest concerns next season and he is one of the best currently on the market.

Hoping to land a visit with Yeboah, think he fits our needs pretty well.

I've said it before, get as much talent as you possibly can and sort it out from there. Can you imagine some end of game situations and Jayce and Theo are both in the game, NO ONE is driving on those two for the winning bucket. I'd love the pick up..one of the most talented grad transfers available.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 29, 2019, 02:41:41 PM
I've said it before, get as much talent as you possibly can and sort it out from there. Can you imagine some end of game situations and Jayce and Theo are both in the game, NO ONE is driving on those two for the winning bucket. I'd love the pick up..one of the most talented grad transfers available.

I would hate having that lineup because Johnson isn't a great rim protector and whoever was guarding the 4 wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with most Big East PFs.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 29, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
I would hate having that lineup because Johnson isn't a great rim protector and whoever was guarding the 4 wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with most Big East PFs.

Can never have too many legit front court types.  I agree the fit isn't perfect on paper, but we have no real front court depth after Theo and Ed.  Both of those dudes foul a lot.  Another big certainly wouldn't hurt. 

I would prefer Yeboah, but I would definitely take both. 
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JakeBarnes on April 29, 2019, 03:18:35 PM
For sure! A replacement for Heldt is exactly what this team needs...🙄

Yeah...if you think this is a Heldt replacement, you haven't watched him play. Would challenge our current frontcourt for minutes and probably get them.

Adding the new JJ along with someone like Yeboah or Ryan would help us a lot. My preference is still more with Yeboah at this point.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2019, 03:18:43 PM
I would hate having that lineup because Johnson isn't a great rim protector and whoever was guarding the 4 wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with most Big East PFs.

Yup
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Shooter Flatch on April 29, 2019, 03:47:08 PM
Look at all the times Theo and Ed got in foul trouble last year. No, Heldt didn’t always come in but in other instances one of the Hauser brothers moved over and they went small. Unless they can pick up a freshman big, I would like this option.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Marquetteauburn on April 29, 2019, 04:03:56 PM

So I really have to describe why I would prefer a top 50 freshman prospect to a couple guys who played in the America East?

Fair enough for long term, but the counter argument is that freshman really are bad more than 90 percent of the time for a year. The reason Buzz had the unbelievable run was he started with one year of the Three Amigos and was able to bring JUCOS who could start at a much higher level than freshmen.

First off, let me admit I thought Chartouney was a good get - but hopefully the difference in underestimating the adjustment for a point guard moving up to a conference with incredible guards would not be the same for these guys coming into a Big East that really did not have the dominant big men.

In Value Add, I have Yeboah in the top 20% of all players and Demir in the top 25% of all players, which is adjusted for level of competition and makes them solid contributors, or the 6th and 7th best players on our team last year with the problem being of course that the Hausers were 2nd and 3rd. However, Morrow, John and Bailey were all better than Joey the last couple of months so if you told me we were throwing them both into the 8-man rotation I would say it's not a bad mix, which is not to say we would have ever up front traded Joey and Sam away of course.

Positives:
They were both substantially better defensive rebounders than Joey (20.1 def reb % and 19.1 to 15.9 for Joey) which even adjusted for competition says they are better.

Im guessing Yeboah would be a major upgrade at getting to his man on the perimeter than Joey was with the constantly late rotation that led to open 3 pointers.

The both draw fouls much better than either Hauser, and between them shoot an above average 75% which is of course much worse than Sam but actually better than Joey the last couple of months.

For me the biggest thing is I just want someone in the mix behind Bailey if someone is killing us with offensive rebounds since that is the one area where Bailey will probably always be below average - so definitely happy for visits.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2019, 06:11:47 PM
I would hate having that lineup because Johnson isn't a great rim protector and whoever was guarding the 4 wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with most Big East PFs.

I don't mean regularly, I mean for end of game situations only, where the other team has one shot and down 1 or 2.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2019, 06:13:42 PM
He is a whole lot better than Heldt and would challenge Theo and Ed

This +1000...he instantly would become the best rebounder on the team by a fairly significant margin actually.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MuMark on April 29, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
5.6 block  percentage isn't elite like Theo but it's ok......better then Ed last season.

Excellent rebounder. On both ends of the court as Guru mentioned.

We have the space and he can play.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2019, 07:36:29 PM
5.6 block  percentage isn't elite like Theo but it's ok......better then Ed last season.

Excellent rebounder. On both ends of the court as Guru mentioned.

We have the space and he can play.

This is correct, to expound on the rebounding a bit more..his rates were elite.. 14.1% O-Reb%(27th in the country), 27.5 D-reb%(23rd in the country) . Averaged 1.1BPG(179th in the country).
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 29, 2019, 10:07:45 PM
Fair enough for long term, but the counter argument is that freshman really are bad more than 90 percent of the time for a year. The reason Buzz had the unbelievable run was he started with one year of the Three Amigos and was able to bring JUCOS who could start at a much higher level than freshmen.

First off, let me admit I thought Chartouney was a good get - but hopefully the difference in underestimating the adjustment for a point guard moving up to a conference with incredible guards would not be the same for these guys coming into a Big East that really did not have the dominant big men.

In Value Add, I have Yeboah in the top 20% of all players and Demir in the top 25% of all players, which is adjusted for level of competition and makes them solid contributors, or the 6th and 7th best players on our team last year with the problem being of course that the Hausers were 2nd and 3rd. However, Morrow, John and Bailey were all better than Joey the last couple of months so if you told me we were throwing them both into the 8-man rotation I would say it's not a bad mix, which is not to say we would have ever up front traded Joey and Sam away of course.

Positives:
They were both substantially better defensive rebounders than Joey (20.1 def reb % and 19.1 to 15.9 for Joey) which even adjusted for competition says they are better.

Im guessing Yeboah would be a major upgrade at getting to his man on the perimeter than Joey was with the constantly late rotation that led to open 3 pointers.

The both draw fouls much better than either Hauser, and between them shoot an above average 75% which is of course much worse than Sam but actually better than Joey the last couple of months.

For me the biggest thing is I just want someone in the mix behind Bailey if someone is killing us with offensive rebounds since that is the one area where Bailey will probably always be below average - so definitely happy for visits.
The value add analysis is helpful, but needs to be supplemented by the eye test. I pointed out many times on this site that Chartouny was a good guy but very slow/not quick. That was based on the eye test. Eye Test definition is seeing someone live. So I never had the high hopes some did. In fact, I felt JC out performed my expectations.

On the other hand  the Value Add had grossly underestimated Quincy McKnight  going into last season. Based on eye test I felt he was much better than projected.  As the stats did not take into account the circumstances he was in at Sacred Heart.

McKnight indeed was a critical element of Seton Hall success and certainly outperformed Chartouny. In fact I think the system is still not necessarily accurate when it comes to McKnight. He was the starting point guard on an NCAA tournament team, I get that his free throws and 3 point  were not top notch but reality was he was always making key plays down the stretch of the big wins that Seton Hall had.

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 29, 2019, 10:14:18 PM
McKnight was exactly where he was supposed to be, 4th or 5th best player on a middle of the pack Big East team.

Chartouny underperformed greatly. Honestly, not getting Chartouny and Froling plugged in successfully has been two of my biggest red flags of the Wojo era.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JakeBarnes on April 29, 2019, 10:44:20 PM
McKnight was exactly where he was supposed to be, 4th or 5th best player on a middle of the pack Big East team.

Chartouny underperformed greatly. Honestly, not getting Chartouny and Froling plugged in successfully has been two of my biggest red flags of the Wojo era.

Chartouny I can understand. Froling never really did much before he came over and had a lot of questions about his effort following him here.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 29, 2019, 10:59:20 PM
McKnight was exactly where he was supposed to be, 4th or 5th best player on a middle of the pack Big East team.

Chartouny underperformed greatly. Honestly, not getting Chartouny and Froling plugged in successfully has been two of my biggest red flags of the Wojo era.
Funny as it may sound coming from an anti Wojo person like myself, I don't actually hold Chartouny and Froling against him. I think those two players are text book cases of the risks inherent in grad transfers and mid season transfers.

Every year you publish the grad transfer analysis. I read your work carefully and have noted there simply are not that many great grad transfers out there . There are a handful of super great guys but there tends to be a lot of guys who can't make the move to the next level of play. We had three great guard examples in the Big East this year, Chartouny, Joe Cremo and Connor Cashaw.

When a guy goes to the extreme of a mid season transfer, many times there are player coach and coach-ability problems. That is always a risk. Sometimes it works out beautifully but other times the situation persists at the new school.

Nonetheless, a school like MU needs to keep prospecting for grad transfers and mid season guys in hopes of finding a gem.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: auburnmarquette on April 29, 2019, 11:56:21 PM
The value add analysis is helpful, but needs to be supplemented by the eye test. I pointed out many times on this site that Chartouny was a good guy but very slow/not quick. That was based on the eye test. Eye Test definition is seeing someone live. So I never had the high hopes some did. In fact, I felt JC out performed my expectations.

On the other hand  the Value Add had grossly underestimated Quincy McKnight  going into last season. Based on eye test I felt he was much better than projected.  As the stats did not take into account the circumstances he was in at Sacred Heart.

McKnight indeed was a critical element of Seton Hall success and certainly outperformed Chartouny. In fact I think the system is still not necessarily accurate when it comes to McKnight. He was the starting point guard on an NCAA tournament team, I get that his free throws and 3 point  were not top notch but reality was he was always making key plays down the stretch of the big wins that Seton Hall had.

Agree with you more than you know!

I just preach that Value Add sums everything into one stat that is adjusted by competition to give a STARTING point.

When I talked to guys with NBA teams they liked that they could spot a player worth scouting, but not that they'd base a pick on Value Add.

I was thinking the same thing when I talked to Cremo in the Nova locker room at the Big East tournament. He would have been fine, but in the end Markus was going to try to rest for a minute and then get run back into the game to run the point.

Definitely appreciate your eye test. JC had some nice moments and I never hold it against the player - if they were the best who chose to come to MU then they were better than the next option.

I do wish we still looked at JCs though.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MuMark on May 01, 2019, 01:39:44 PM
McKnight was exactly where he was supposed to be, 4th or 5th best player on a middle of the pack Big East team.

Chartouny underperformed greatly. Honestly, not getting Chartouny and Froling plugged in successfully has been two of my biggest red flags of the Wojo era.

Funny I blame the player not the coach......

Everybody assumed that Chartouny was the answer......coaches.....posters on this board.......and we were all wrong......he had chances and for whatever reason....did not perform......call it a recruiting mistake if you want but if Wojo was wrong so was everybody else here.......so the same people who said we had to have JC because he was just what we need.......instead of now saying...."we all had it wrong" choose to blame the coach .....

Recruiting mistakes are made by everybody......is Jay Wright a lesser coach because he " couldn't plug in Quinerly more effectively?

JC's problem here was he turned it over at rates that were astronomical compared to his years at Fordham........when a grad transfer starts kicking it away in every way imaginable when he never did it before im not sure that blame falls on the coach.

He can't dribble or pass for him.......just like he can't shoot free throws for Theo.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: willie warrior on May 01, 2019, 01:47:46 PM
Chartouny I can understand. Froling never really did much before he came over and had a lot of questions about his effort following him here.
But wait...we heard it here a number of times that Froling was a game changer.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on May 01, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
Funny I blame the player not the coach......

Everybody assumed that Chartouny was the answer......coaches.....posters on this board.......and we were all wrong......he had chances and for whatever reason....did not perform......call it a recruiting mistake if you want but if Wojo was wrong so was everybody else here.......so the same people who said we had to have JC because he was just what we need.......instead of now saying...."we all had it wrong" choose to blame the coach .....

Recruiting mistakes are made by everybody......is Jay Wright a lesser coach because he " couldn't plug in Quinerly more effectively?

JC's problem here was he turned it over at rates that were astronomical compared to his years at Fordham........when a grad transfer starts kicking it away in every way imaginable when he never did it before im not sure that blame falls on the coach.

He can't dribble or pass for him.......just like he can't shoot free throws for Theo.

Personally, when a player doesn't improve or gets worse from one year to the next (without injury) I question how that player is being coached.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MuMark on May 01, 2019, 02:38:17 PM
And when I see a player turn it over 34% of the time instead of 16% by falling down......not being able to catch the ball or dribble it down the court without turning it over ..... forcing the coach to bench him I blame the player.

When you recruit a grad transfer he should be able to dribble, catch it and not fall down with the ball.

He's 24 years old.......not 12. 

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MuMark on May 01, 2019, 03:33:12 PM
Some nice comments from Joe about his experience at Marquette

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Wp1NdKjcVW0

Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on May 02, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
Some nice comments from Joe about his experience at Marquette

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Wp1NdKjcVW0

Definitely worth listening to.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: BM1090 on May 02, 2019, 04:10:17 PM
Isaiah Moss from Iowa will be an immediately eligible grad transfer. Not very efficient overall but a good three point shooter. Hope we take a long look at him.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: moomoo on May 02, 2019, 05:02:48 PM
Isaiah Moss from Iowa will be an immediately eligible grad transfer. Not very efficient overall but a good three point shooter. Hope we take a long look at him.

Completely agree.

He also has an edge to him, but sometimes disappears.

Would be a great punch off the bench as a 6th man.

And he played with Ed Morrow at Simeon.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TAMU Eagle on May 02, 2019, 05:15:54 PM
Isaiah Moss from Iowa will be an immediately eligible grad transfer. Not very efficient overall but a good three point shooter. Hope we take a long look at him.

Getting him and Johnson would be interesting. In my opinion the thing we are in biggest need of for next season is a forward who can rebound and stretch the floor. It would be funny if instead they got a center who was an elite rebounder and a wing who was an elite floor stretcher.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: willie warrior on May 02, 2019, 06:17:50 PM
What help is on the way?  Considering the loss of the Hausers we need tons of help. Maybe Patton and his tanks are coming.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 02, 2019, 06:33:32 PM
What help is on the way?  Considering the loss of the Hausers we need tons of help. Maybe Patton and his tanks are coming.


Tanks can shoot from distance but are terrible at rebounding.  More of an offensive weapon than a defensive one.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: WarriorPride68 on May 02, 2019, 08:32:40 PM
Isaiah Moss from Iowa will be an immediately eligible grad transfer. Not very efficient overall but a good three point shooter. Hope we take a long look at him.

Played AAU for Duane Wilson Sr & Playground Elite (with Henry Ellenson & Cam Marotta)
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: marquette20 on May 03, 2019, 03:34:58 AM
Isaiah Moss from Iowa will be an immediately eligible grad transfer. Not very efficient overall but a good three point shooter. Hope we take a long look at him.

Played against him in high school when he was a sophomore before he transferred to Simeon. Was super athletic and commanded the floor. The knock on him was that he wasn’t a great shooter so to lay off him. Seems like that is still true. Feel like he would be a very similar player to Sacar for us.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 03, 2019, 07:00:14 AM
The knock on him was that he wasn’t a great shooter so to lay off him. Seems like that is still true.

If he comes to Marquette, I hope everyone continues to lay off the not great shooter that hit 42.1% beyond the arc last year.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MUBurrow on May 03, 2019, 08:52:47 AM
Getting him and Johnson would be interesting. In my opinion the thing we are in biggest need of for next season is a forward who can rebound and stretch the floor. It would be funny if instead they got a center who was an elite rebounder and a wing who was an elite floor stretcher.

I was thinking this with Jayce Johnson as well. I'm not very imaginative, but I have trouble picturing what next year's team and playing style looks like if he's getting the minutes he's probably demanding, given the transfer options available to him. I don't think he'd be coming to be part of a Ed-Theo-Jayce three headed monster.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on May 08, 2019, 08:30:36 AM
I was thinking this with Jayce Johnson as well. I'm not very imaginative, but I have trouble picturing what next year's team and playing style looks like if he's getting the minutes he's probably demanding, given the transfer options available to him. I don't think he'd be coming to be part of a Ed-Theo-Jayce three headed monster.

I’ve never seen Ed shoot any 12-15footers, but maybe we are all too quick to judge him based on how he looks sometimes when he puts the ball up inside. Jerome Whitehead’s semifinal game winner vs UNCC in ‘77 looked pretty funky too if I remember. When you’re undersized playing the 5, your close-range contested shots are gonna look a little weird. Does his mid-range shot look as funky? Somebody remind me if I’m forgetting.  All I’m saying is, I’d bet Ed is capable of being a very solid 4. Theo is more foul prone than Ed, so Jayce is a crucial acquisition at the 5.

The other explanation as to why Jayce would come here, but possibly sacrifice minutes....maybe he wants to win.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 08, 2019, 07:12:44 PM
Does his mid-range shot look as funky? Somebody remind me if I’m forgetting.

I'd guess most of us are forgetting because he took very few midrange shots.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: We R Final Four on May 08, 2019, 07:23:01 PM
Yes—very funky.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on May 09, 2019, 08:02:57 AM
I remember Morrow taking 2 shots from more than 8 feet out. Both were bricks. Maybe he took more and made a few; I just don't remember them. He had enough trouble hitting anything that wasn't a dunk. But he still was a valuable role player last season, and I think he will be so again. Almost any team in the country would take an unselfish rebounding machine who plays defense and does the other dirty work.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 10, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Every basketball team needs guys who can defend and rebound inside. We've got 3 good ones in Theo, Ed and Jayce.

Maybe Ed can expand his mid-range game. But I'm not sure that's even necessary. If our big guys can improve in the post and pick-and-roll, that could be plenty. We'll probably see a fair share of 4-out-1-in -- but maybe double post offense, as well. How many opponents can defend both a big forward in Ed and a 6-9 or 7-0 center in Theo or Jayce?

Back to the defense and rebounding, that's also key to transition offense. Adding Jayce, plus Greg and Koby, could take our defense into Top 25 territory -- and really amp up our running game. I'm excited to see how it comes together.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: The Hamberdler on May 11, 2019, 07:51:54 AM
Can anyone explicitly describe why Ed will need to take jump shots for us to do well with him playing the 4? I think we are getting pretty far into what we are used to with the team over the last several seasons and forgetting some perspective. Some of the great Uconn teams that I grew up watching played multiple center-type players alongside outside sharpshooter and slashers. If you gain enough offensive rebounds, defense, etc by adding Ed at the 4, you can survive/thrive the lack of jump shots he provides. Further, you want to get the best players on the court - why should we play a worse player than Ed at the 4 simply because they have a jump shot?

I mean, seriously, even if Ed improves his jump shot, how often do we want him to be making his own offense as opposed to Sacar, Koby, Markus, or even Brendan or others? IMO we are debating over something that even if it improves, it's still kind of a moot point, no?
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on May 11, 2019, 09:00:12 AM
I am thinking that Howard and McEwen are going to be like Lilliard and McCollum of Portland.Two very good guards can take you a long way.Also Elliott does many things well on the basketball court
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: TSmith34 on May 13, 2019, 10:05:22 AM
Can anyone explicitly describe why Ed will need to take jump shots for us to do well with him playing the 4? I think we are getting pretty far into what we are used to with the team over the last several seasons and forgetting some perspective. Some of the great Uconn teams that I grew up watching played multiple center-type players alongside outside sharpshooter and slashers. If you gain enough offensive rebounds, defense, etc by adding Ed at the 4, you can survive/thrive the lack of jump shots he provides. Further, you want to get the best players on the court - why should we play a worse player than Ed at the 4 simply because they have a jump shot?

I mean, seriously, even if Ed improves his jump shot, how often do we want him to be making his own offense as opposed to Sacar, Koby, Markus, or even Brendan or others? IMO we are debating over something that even if it improves, it's still kind of a moot point, no?
It is highly unlikely IMO that he is asked to take many jump shots, that's just not his game.  I'm far more concerned about his ability on the defensive end trying to guard a 4.  I didn't think he guarded very well in space last year, and really can't see him being effective guarding a stretch 4.
Title: Re: Help on the way for 19/20?
Post by: MU82 on May 13, 2019, 10:18:16 AM
It is highly unlikely IMO that he is asked to take many jump shots, that's just not his game.  I'm far more concerned about his ability on the defensive end trying to guard a 4.  I didn't think he guarded very well in space last year, and really can't see him being effective guarding a stretch 4.

Agree in general, because I really don't think Morrow will play much 4, but there aren't many legit, truly dangerous "stretch 4's" out there.