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Author Topic: What was Wojo's alternative?  (Read 76889 times)

onepost

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2019, 10:52:06 AM »
Or your could say they tried to strongarm wojo, and he appropriately resisted.

They probably also thought more people quit leave the team to support them when they decided to quit.

Maybe they didn't have as much support from teammates as they thought!

The entire team, sans Markus, had a hand (hah) in the letter.  Not just Sam and Joey.
I wouldn't consider 12/13 players requesting a change a "strongarm", and was it an appropriate resistance?  We won 1 game after February 23rd.

Pakuni

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2019, 10:54:12 AM »
600 shot attempts for MH
614 combined shot attempts for the Hausers

The inflexible, high-risk approach failed when it mattered most, as Henry Sugar pointed out this morning.

851 points for MH.
836 combined points for the Hausers.

It failed when Markus got hurt.
When Marquette was 23-4 and ranked in the top 10 nobody was complaining.
But seriously, do you believe the either of the Hausers deserved as many shot attempts as Howard?

brewcity77

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2019, 10:56:05 AM »
600 shot attempts for MH
614 combined shot attempts for the Hausers

The inflexible, high-risk approach failed when it mattered most, as Henry Sugar pointed out this morning.

+1

That is a problem.
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NYWarrior

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2019, 11:00:54 AM »
851 points for MH.
836 combined points for the Hausers.

It failed when Markus got hurt.
When Marquette was 23-4 and ranked in the top 10 nobody was complaining.
But seriously, do you believe the either of the Hausers deserved as many shot attempts as Howard?

High usage schemes are high risk and have a lower success rate than just about any other approach.  Some of that is here, more on our feed: https://twitter.com/CrackedSidewlks/status/1111487502043365376

And yes, I believe the Hausers deserved more shot attempts. So does Sam's elite ORtg, in particular.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2019, 11:02:32 AM »
About allowing Markus to stay in AZ...I will remind folks that he has openly discussed his mental health issues.

Pakuni

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2019, 11:04:47 AM »
And yes, I believe the Hausers deserved more shot attempts. So does Sam's elite ORtg, in particular.

That wasn't my question.

brewcity77

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2019, 11:09:32 AM »
High usage schemes are high risk and have a lower success rate than just about any other approach.  Some of that is here, more on our feed: https://twitter.com/CrackedSidewlks/status/1111487502043365376

And yes, I believe the Hausers deserved more shot attempts. So does Sam's elite ORtg, in particular.

Further, I don't think this is a new take by any means. While Sam's percentage of shots taken has crept up over his 3 years on campus, he's been our most offensively efficient player (aside from the anomaly of Matt Heldt) each of his three seasons. Granted, his efficiency may have dropped with a higher usage, and I fully believe some of that is Sam passing on good shots in hopes of getting someone else a great shot, but he definitely should've been shooting more & the job of the coach is to script the offense to get those looks.

I'm not as sold that Joey needed more looks. He did hit a wall later in the season & wasn't doing a ton in my estimation to earn more looks. Though on the balance of the season, he was our best three point shooter. Obviously when it came to Howard, he was fed the ball in hopes of shooting himself out of slumps, and that was to our detriment late in the season. Maybe Joey should've been given the same opportunity? No way to know what he would've done with them, but it is accurate to say he didn't get that opportunity.

EDIT: And more simply, Markus did not deserve as many shot attempts as the Hausers had combined. Of the three, he had the lowest eFG%. If you are going to run your offense through a primary option at the same effective rate as your secondary and tertiary options combined, you don't want the primary option to be the one with the lowest eFG%.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 11:11:46 AM by brewcity77 »
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NYWarrior

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2019, 11:14:46 AM »
That wasn't my question.

"But seriously, do you believe the either of the Hausers deserved as many shot attempts as Howard?"

Not as many per se ... but certainly many more than they were afforded. Particularly with Sam. High usage schemes are too risky and in this case wasted the talent of two all-league players.

NYWarrior

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2019, 11:15:43 AM »
Further, I don't think this is a new take by any means. While Sam's percentage of shots taken has crept up over his 3 years on campus, he's been our most offensively efficient player (aside from the anomaly of Matt Heldt) each of his three seasons. Granted, his efficiency may have dropped with a higher usage, and I fully believe some of that is Sam passing on good shots in hopes of getting someone else a great shot, but he definitely should've been shooting more & the job of the coach is to script the offense to get those looks.

I'm not as sold that Joey needed more looks. He did hit a wall later in the season & wasn't doing a ton in my estimation to earn more looks. Though on the balance of the season, he was our best three point shooter. Obviously when it came to Howard, he was fed the ball in hopes of shooting himself out of slumps, and that was to our detriment late in the season. Maybe Joey should've been given the same opportunity? No way to know what he would've done with them, but it is accurate to say he didn't get that opportunity.

EDIT: And more simply, Markus did not deserve as many shot attempts as the Hausers had combined. Of the three, he had the lowest eFG%. If you are going to run your offense through a primary option at the same effective rate as your secondary and tertiary options combined, you don't want the primary option to be the one with the lowest eFG%.

Yup Yup Yup

MH's ORtg has declined each year he's been at MU.  Guess what? His usage increased every season.  Math!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 11:19:07 AM by NYWarrior »

BrewCity83

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2019, 12:27:23 PM »
The Matt Heldt, Xavier,  crying Wojo story happened organically.  It got the attention it deserved.  If other interesting stories would've happened organically,  I  am sure they would've been covered.  But the media has little interest in being the PR department for Marquette.

You got that right.  What do you think this is, Madison???
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withoutbias

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2019, 12:43:13 PM »
wait, so the hausers went to wojo early in the losing streak and asked him to sit markus if he goes into hero ball mode or to reinvent their offense 80% of the way into the season?  and when that didn't happen they decided to write a letter and get everyone on the team other than markus to sign it?

seems like we figured out why the locker room got split.  adios to them if this is true.

cheebs09

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2019, 12:46:26 PM »
To play Devil’s advocate, I think some of the low usage for Sam is on him. He was pretty conservative in the shots he took. I thought he should be more selfish on shots. However, the flow of the offense went out the window when Markus went 1 on 5.

BM1090

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2019, 12:51:00 PM »
I'm not trying to minimize the fallout of what's happened. It's true that a lot of players have wanted to transfer from MU at some point.

That being said, that's the case every year. 3-4 players every year wanted to transfer from MU under Crean. 3-4 players every year wanted to transfer under Buzz. 3-4 players ever year wanted to transfer every year under Wojo. That includes some very prominent players under each coach. It happens in every program.

Assistant coaches have to talk kids out of transfers all the time.

NickelDimer

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2019, 12:51:03 PM »
I can think of two situations this year, second game vs Nova and second game vs SH, where a cold Markus came in and turned the ball over and missed shots. Both times disrupting our offensive flow. And this doesn’t include Markus ignoring a wide open, arm waving Sam vs SH in the BET while an ultracold Markus once again settles for the heroic crap and misses.

What could Wojo have done? Idk, relied on the guys on the court who had established an offensive flow? If I’m on that team I’m disgusted by how my coach handled those situations both of which cost us a BE title. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:57:08 PM by NickelDimer »
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muwarrior69

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2019, 01:08:00 PM »
This was posted before, but is one of the more important data points:

https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Reply/ghostBehind-Reply-131264929/

Frustrations grew significantly when Markus was dominating the ball down the losing stretch and Wojo refused to rest him or adjust to allow a more team oriented approach. Because many on the team felt it was the only option to get through to Wojo, a letter was written to him, initiated by the Hauser’s and cosigned by other members on the team, but it still fell on deaf ears.


I mean .. when a team is writing a letter to the coach -- signed by more than just the Hausers -- that is just huge trouble.   Any wonders why Marquette's season crashed and burned so drastically can be put to rest. 

Forget the Mueller Report .. I want to see the Hauser Letter. 

We're going to need to use MUScoop's little known subpoena power and get this out in the public.

Here is whole quote:

The record needs to be set straight as there is a fair amount of slander going around with the current situation. Please, please, please no one take out their frustrations on Markus or the Hauser’s.

Markus has a way that he likes to play and he believes that style will get him to the next level. It’s not directly on him to change to make his teammates happy.

The Hauser’s have a right to be frustrated with the lack of looks in the offense and shouldn’t be looked down upon because they’re leaving for greener pastures.

It’s human nature to selfishly take care of yourself/family first. However it’s on the coach and coaching staff to manage the egos and quell frustrations, especially with a roster as talented and potent as we would have been next year.

This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of the head coach for repeated negligence on managing the personalities on his team and refusing to cope with very vocal frustrations throughout the past year.

Some animosity began when Markus was allowed to go back home over the summer to work out with his family while everyone else was required to stay on campus. A lot of players were frustrated with this and rightfully so. Sure, Markus’ dad is a trainer, but if you’re building a team, why allow a key member of your team to leave everyone else during a crucial team building period to live at home, away from the rules/restrictions everyone else must abide by.

Frustrations grew significantly when Markus was dominating the ball down the losing stretch and Wojo refused to rest him or adjust to allow a more team oriented approach. Because many on the team felt it was the only option to get through to Wojo, a letter was written to him, initiated by the Hauser’s and cosigned by other members on the team, but it still fell on deaf ears.

There was a one sided conversation following the season and it ended with the Hauser’s saying thanks and we’re leaving.

This situation rests squarely on the shoulders of Wojo not being able to manage his team over the past year.


If I were Wojo and got this letter I would have suspended the Hauser boys and benched the other co-signers for future games. I doubt that this is true.

brewcity77

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2019, 01:10:33 PM »
I don't think this is entirely about Markus. I certainly don't think this started during the losing streak. It's the system.

  • In 2014-15, there were numerous complaints about Carlino's usage. When he was on, it led to some spectacular performances. But while he could shoot us into games, he could also shoot us out of games.
  • In 2015-16, there were numerous complaints about Ellenson's usage. Same story.
  • In 2017-18, there were numerous complaints about Rowsey's usage. The whole "Good Rowsey/Bad Rowsey" narrative.
  • In 2018-19, it's Markus.
The high usage player is not a bug, it's a feature. It's also why I loved the 2016-17 team. No single dominant player. On any given night, any of 5-6 different guys could carry the load. It's easy to say this is all because of a bad stretch of games where Howard dominated the ball, but it's a trend that stretches back years, as long as Wojo's been here. If you're going to recruit a diverse set of players that all believe they have the ability to be offensively prolific, they are going to want their time to shine. When the ball sticks in the same guy's hands night in and night out, it's going to lead to rifts in the locker room, and if you continue to ride that hand when the results go south, it's going to deepen those rifts.
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muwarrior69

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2019, 01:12:44 PM »
I can think of two situations this year, second game vs Nova and second game vs SH, where a cold Markus came in and turned the ball over and missed shots. Both times disrupting our offensive flow. And this doesn’t include Markus ignoring a wide open, arm waving Sam vs SH in the BET while an ultracold Markus once again settles for the heroic crap and misses.

What could Wojo have done? Idk, relied on the guys on the court who had established an offensive flow? If I’m on that team I’m disgusted by how my coach handled those situations both of which cost us a BE title.

If I were your coach you either listen or go elsewhere. Since when does the "team" run the the team.

NickelDimer

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2019, 01:15:15 PM »
I’ll go back to what I’ve been saying about Wojo his entire tenure; I have yet to see anything that validates his ability to coach. Creating an offense around one high usage, offensive talent isn’t coaching.

And now there’s evidence that he doesn’t know how to manage his team. At this point he’s basically done nothing to keep his job. I can honestly make a case for naming Stan, the one guy who’s kept most of the team in tact the head coach on an interim basis and seeing how he does.
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NickelDimer

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2019, 01:20:30 PM »
If I were your coach you either listen or go elsewhere. Since when does the "team" run the the team.
Listening? How about adjusting based on performance. You know, what good coaches do. Pretty radical I know.

Also, based on your philosophy it may have been Howard you’d of had go elsewhere.
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PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2019, 01:21:12 PM »
About allowing Markus to stay in AZ...I will remind folks that he has openly discussed his mental health issues.
If you’re saying he needed to go home for mental health issues, I’m not sure I’m buying it. There is plenty of professional help in Milwaukee.

If you’re saying because of his mental health he’s unable to follow instructions and play basketball as the team game it’s supposed to be to the detriment of the 11 or 12 other players who work all year to play as a team, then you might get me to buy in. This could also explain Wojo being in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t situation.

Hypothetically speaking, many individuals speak openly of mental health issues as a proactive means of getting what they want. If they don’t get what they want, those around them are adversely affected.  Hypothetically speaking, of course.

goldeneagle91114

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2019, 01:23:59 PM »
wait, so the hausers went to wojo early in the losing streak and asked him to sit markus if he goes into hero ball mode or to reinvent their offense 80% of the way into the season?  and when that didn't happen they decided to write a letter and get everyone on the team other than markus to sign it?

seems like we figured out why the locker room got split.  adios to them if this is true.

No the whole team got together, Sans Markus, and wrote a letter to wojo. the letter pretty much said - Hey Markus is struggling (due to injury, fatigue, shooting slump, whatever) let us help shoulder some of the load. Not sure what Wojos response was, but the he continued to feed Markus a the ball.

Also, at its been said in other thread, we're just lucky Stan is on staff. Without him Marquette may not have enough players to put a full squad on the floor.

Mike Deane's Seat Belt

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2019, 01:24:07 PM »
I’ll go back to what I’ve been saying about Wojo his entire tenure; I have yet to see anything that validates his ability to coach. Creating an offense around one high usage, offensive talent isn’t coaching.

And now there’s evidence that he doesn’t know how to manage his team. At this point he’s basically done nothing to keep his job. I can honestly make a case for naming Stan, the one guy who’s kept most of the team in tact the head coach on an interim basis and seeing how he does.

If they could keep everybody else including those likely committed with the change to stan as an interim its the right move.  It almost should be done either way though.  Wojo will not take this program to the next level, even the apologists are starting to finally realize that.  Its time to cut ties as much as it hurts, program will be dead in the water for the next 5 years or more anyways and may never be able to get out of mediocrity again.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2019, 01:33:53 PM »
No one has any idea what "the Hauser Letter" said, other than to guess at what would seem obvious.   

As for "sitting the letter writers" .. I suppose it all depends on content and style of the writing.   

My guess is the signees had a pretty good point, as what is known is the team was in/shortly began and finished with an utter implosion.

muwarrior69

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2019, 01:35:01 PM »
Listening? How about adjusting based on performance. You know, what good coaches do. Pretty radical I know.

Also, based on your philosophy it may have been Howard you’d of had go elsewhere.

Did Wojo adjust when Sam or Joey were playing poorly? Wojo deferred to Joey knowing he could not defend while Brendon and/or Jamal were sitting after one mistake. I can't speak for Markus but I don't think he was telling the coach how to coach. Things were really great until Joey was not measuring up and from the face of it the Hausers decided to take their ball and go home because baby brother was whining that Markus does not want to share the ball.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: What was Wojo's alternative?
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2019, 01:37:35 PM »
If you’re saying he needed to go home for mental health issues, I’m not sure I’m buying it. There is plenty of professional help in Milwaukee.

If you’re saying because of his mental health he’s unable to follow instructions and play basketball as the team game it’s supposed to be to the detriment of the 11 or 12 other players who work all year to play as a team, then you might get me to buy in. This could also explain Wojo being in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t situation.

Hypothetically speaking, many individuals speak openly of mental health issues as a proactive means of getting what they want. If they don’t get what they want, those around them are adversely affected.  Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Wow.  So much wrong with this post, I don't know where to begin.

 

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