Markus Climbing The Ladder

[barfolomew]

There were some pretty serious scorers in '86-'87, '87-'88 and '88-'89. Those three years account for 10 of the 33 on the list, and they typically played fewer games back then.
[/list]

Believe 1986 was the first year of the 3 pt line in the NCAA.

[MUBBau]

Feb 21, 1999 - Memphis

At the time it was the second highest points scored in a Conference USA game.

Larry Hughes #1?

[Warrior Code]

There were some pretty serious scorers in '86-'87, '87-'88 and '88-'89. Those three years account for 10 of the 33 on the list, and they typically played fewer games back then.
[/list]

I wish I'd have been old enough to see Hersey play.

[Lennys Tap]

Yup. Thompson was 19 with a year in the system before he scored his first point for Marquette.

DWade was almost 20 with a year in the system before he scored his first point for Marquette. And even with the 3 point line he only ended up with "only" 1281 points.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

DWade was almost 20 with a year in the system before he scored his first point for Marquette. And even with the 3 point line he only ended up with "only" 1281 points. So I guess Markus is better than GT and GT is better than Wade. LOL.

Did anyone say Markus was better than Thompson or Wade? I may have missed it.

[Cheeks]

Wow...the biggest Tom Crean stand of all time.  Take a bow.  You're definitely now invited to all the Crean kids' weddings. 

We get it, George was a PITA to a small, select group of people in the 1212 building.   I just wish TC would have had the balls to fire him from radio and unretire his number when Al was still alive.  But that's not Tommy's style.

Holy smokes.  I said nothing about TC, and certainly nothing negative about GT.  I got to work with GT, admire GT and have nothing against GT at all.   Wow, that's all I have to say, simply wow.

George never treated me badly ever, TC did.  Yikes.

[Lennys Tap]

Did anyone say Markus was better than Thompson or Wade? I may have missed it.

I modified my post but my point is WTF difference does it make how old players were when they scored their first point for Marquette? It's a talking point, and IMO a dumb one. When UW fans used to bring up how old Travis was this board used to laugh at them. Now Chico and Brew are basically doing the same thing in reverse. Some people are ready at 17. Some aren't. And some are but didn't get the chance. I didn't know that the younger one is the more their points counted.

[Cheeks]

I modified my post but my point is WTF difference does it make how old players were when they scored their first point for Marquette? It's a talking point, and IMO a dumb one. When UW fans used to bring up how old Travis was this board used to laugh at them. Now Chico and Brew are basically doing the same thing in reverse. Some people are ready at 17. Some aren't. And some are but didn't get the chance. I didn't know that the younger one is the more their points counted.

The reason I mentioned it is it is pretty rare to have a kid as young as Markus even in college at age 17, yet alone that productive at that age. Phenomenal and rare.  More than a talking point, an accomplishment.  There's a reason why broadcasters and others point out he is only 19.  He has done things that few people his age at this level have ever done, so it is worth pointing out.

Most freshmen struggle a bit, and they are a year older and a year wiser, more mature body than a 17 year old.  If it wasn't that big a deal, people wouldn't be bringing it up.  Takes nothing away from what others have accomplished, it just points out that what MH is doing is even more special than most due to his size and his age.

[TallTitan34]

DWade was almost 20 with a year in the system before he scored his first point for Marquette. And even with the 3 point line he only ended up with "only" 1281 points.

He also only played two years.  He'd likely be the all-time leader had he played three years.

[Lennys Tap]

He also only played two years.  He'd likely be the all-time leader had he played three years.

Of course, and that's precisely why this "all time leading scorer" stuff is meaningless to me. Freshman eligibility, many more games per year, shot clock, 3 point line. etc., have made it such. Jerel McNeal was a really good player at MU but he's not even in the team picture when one talks about all time greats. Markus, OTOH, very well might. But his position on "the ladder" won't be the reason.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I modified my post but my point is WTF difference does it make how old players were when they scored their first point for Marquette? It's a talking point, and IMO a dumb one. When UW fans used to bring up how old Travis was this board used to laugh at them. Now Chico and Brew are basically doing the same thing in reverse. Some people are ready at 17. Some aren't. And some are but didn't get the chance. I didn't know that the younger one is the more their points counted.

In my experience, most college players improve as they age. To me, I don't think it's unreasonable to posit that Markus would have scored even more points in the same amount of games if he started as a 19 year old freshman, especially one who redshirtted a year and got to learn the system. That's impossible to prove and it certainly doesn't matter. No one is going to put an asterisk in the record book. But at least for me, it makes what Markus has done just a little bit more special. Just like the fact that Thompson put up all those points in only three seasons and a 6'2" PF without 3PT line makes what he did all the more special.

[GooooMarquette]

Believe 1986 was the first year of the 3 pt line in the NCAA.

Yes, but if you look at the NCAA records for most three-pointers in a season, most of the best seasons have been 2000 and beyond. And the few players from 1986–89 who are on the 3-pointer list don't really overlap with the highest scorers. I think the high scorers I listed in bold were mostly just pure scorers.

FWIW, here's the 3-pointer in a season list:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/fg3-player-season.html[/list]

[Cheeks]

In my experience, most college players improve as they age. To me, I don't think it's unreasonable to posit that Markus would have scored even more points in the same amount of games if he started as a 19 year old freshman, especially one who redshirtted a year and got to learn the system. That's impossible to prove and it certainly doesn't matter. No one is going to put an asterisk in the record book. But at least for me, it makes what Markus has done just a little bit more special. Just like the fact that Thompson put up all those points in only three seasons and a 6'2" PF without 3PT line makes what he did all the more special.

Exactly

[Cheeks]

Yes, but if you look at the NCAA records for most three-pointers in a season, most of the best seasons have been 2000 and beyond. And the few players from 1986–89 who are on the 3-pointer list don't really overlap with the highest scorers. I think the high scorers I listed in bold were mostly just pure scorers.

FWIW, here's the 3-pointer in a season list:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/fg3-player-season.html[/list]

Same for NBA, but the reasons are pretty obvious.  Kids weren't taught or encouraged to shoot long bombs prior to the 3 point line. It took a generation of the line to be in place for enough kids to come up through the ranks where this was a practiced and encouraged skill.  It has revolutionized the NBA and actually made it watchable again.  College no different.  Best 3 point seasons naturally come after kids are given the greenlight to practice it, do it at the youth levels, high school and AAU, and then it ends up showcasing itself in college and the NBA.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

When UW fans used to bring up how old Travis was this board used to laugh at them.

I am guilty of brining up that D'Mitrik Trice is older now as a sophomore for the Bagders than Markus will be when he graduates next year.

[MU82]

Same for NBA, but the reasons are pretty obvious.  Kids weren't taught or encouraged to shoot long bombs prior to the 3 point line. It took a generation of the line to be in place for enough kids to come up through the ranks where this was a practiced and encouraged skill.  It has revolutionized the NBA and actually made it watchable again.  College no different.  Best 3 point seasons naturally come after kids are given the greenlight to practice it, do it at the youth levels, high school and AAU, and then it ends up showcasing itself in college and the NBA.

I assistant-coach high-level girls HS basketball. Two players on our team not only have the green light to shoot fast-break 3s but they are encouraged to do so. And we have a couple others who are encouraged to shoot open 3s in our half-court offense. Several of our half-court sets and inbound plays are designed specifically to get open 3s for our shooters.

I think back even 10 years, and certainly 20, and I can just imagine what a high-school coach would say if a kid pulled up on a fast-break and fired up a 22-footer. Let alone a girl!

Not sure if it's made the game better, but it probably hasn't made it worse, and it certainly has made it more interesting. We've had a couple big comebacks this season because we've gotten hot from 3, and we were victimized once because our opponent started making 3s from all over.[/list]

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Its odd to think about this so early, but Markus will likely start his ascent past some all-time greats on the scoring list in the next few games.

Jerel McNeal - 1,985
Lazar Hayward - 1,859
George Thompson - 1,773
MARKUS 1772 Through Butler
Dominic James - 1,749
Butch Lee - 1,735
Travis Diener - 1,691
Brian Wardle - 1,690
Tony Smith - 1,688
Wesley Matthews - 1,673
Bo Ellis - 1,663
Darius Johnson-Odom - 1,649
Damon Key - 1,647
Dean Meminger - 1,637
Trevor Powell - 1,571
Steve Novak - 1,567
Don Kojis - 1,504
Bob Wolf - 1,479
Roney Eford - 1,471
Aaron Hutchins - 1,439
Don Kojis - 1,504
Bob Wolf - 1,479
Roney Eford - 1,471
Aaron Hutchins - 1,439

Release the Pulloons

[TallTitan34]

Need to pass George Thompson and avoid his curse!  Dom and Travis were both on their way to passing him and both got hurt.

[Galway Eagle]

So if we can get a W in the BE tournament and a W in the NCAA to stretch out the season to 9 more games then Markus only needs to average about 25ppg to beat Jerel right?

[brewcity77]

So if we can get a W in the BE tournament and a W in the NCAA to stretch out the season to 9 more games then Markus only needs to average about 25ppg to beat Jerel right?

214 points to pass Jerel, so 23.8 ppg for 9 games would do it. If we are one and done in both tournaments, he'd need to average 30.6 ppg to pass him.

[HowardsWorld]

Hes going to get there this year. He is going to have another 40 point game, wouldn't be surprised if it were this saturday. The way the Hausers have been shooting lately I feel Markus is going to take more shots than normal.

[DoctorV]

It would be incredible if he breaks this record in 3 seasons.

Talk about one of the most impressive things we've ever seen as MU fans

[Galway Eagle]

It would be incredible if he breaks this record in 3 seasons.

Talk about one of the most impressive things we've ever seen as MU fans

Even if he doesn't set the record he's pretty much guaranteed to beat Lazar by the end of the season which is pretty damn impressive

[1SE]

It would be incredible if he breaks this record in 3 seasons.

Talk about one of the most impressive things we've ever seen as MU fans

And yet half this board didn't think he should even be in a MU GOAT conversation...

[Its DJOver]

And yet half this board didn't think he should even be in a MU GOAT conversation...

Is it half the board? Or is it a vocal half dozen that are still stuck in the 70s?