Worst/Best Christmas Songs?

[Pakuni]

How about now?

Not that I care one way or the other, but I'm not sure a heavily touched up and filtered magazine cover photo is the most accurate representation of someone's appearance.

[mu_hilltopper]

https://www.youtube.com/v/CJB9GP5gyAw

[🏀]

Sinead wasn't bad looking. Lots of facial structure similar to Natalie Portman.

[Benny B]

I agree that one might snicker but Benny (usually our most logical poster) and his minions are over the top bat spit.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt....... I got minions now, yo!


At the risk of Godwinning the thread, let's bear in mind that the nazis didn't invent the swastika... they appropriated it from some sort of ancient Egyptian tribe or whatnot.  In fact, if one were to venture to the resort at West Baden Springs, IN circa 2005, surrounding one of the verandas on the property was an ornamental iron railing that was adorned in a repeating pattern of swastikas.  As a WWII history nut, it was a painfully eerie sight even considering that the fence was built during WWI (just to be clear, WW-One did predate the nazis).

I have to believe the fence is no longer there*, even if the place is on the National Register, because the swastika - regardless of when it was cast/drawn/sculpted/whatever - is no longer acceptable, period. Likewise.... even if you think it's ok to slip something in a woman's drink or that maintaining your pride is more important than crushing someone's dignity, the symbolism of the song is obsolete.






[And just so I don't disappoint my peeps, just a taste of guano for all y'all]

*Then again, it's Indiana, it's Indiana... birthplace of the KKK, home of the distinctly separated municipalities of Whitestown and Brownsville, the only Union state during the Civil War that sanctioned the return of escaped slaves back South, and the flagship university that sports a convenient blending of an I and a U to create a W in its logo (hint: the 'W' doesn't stand for "Win").  So if the railing is still there, go ahead and bust a move to Baby, It's Cold Outside... just don't start whining when society decides to leave you outside in the cold, baby.

[brewcity77]

https://www.youtube.com/v/CJB9GP5gyAw

I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.

[WarriorDad]

I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.

Why is it those complaining about this song seem to not be as agitated about songs like Jump Around? The consistency, or lack of it, is amusing.  This idea that the drink was spiked, no it wasn't.  In college we made drinks that tasted great, you couldn't tell much alcohol was in it, but that didn't mean some drug was in there.  Girls and guys would get drunk drinking the punch, which tasted like punch but didn't have a date rape drug in it. 

Radio stations are backing down after listeners have revolted.  Out in San Francisco, one of the most liberal cities in the nation, KOIT was forced to put it back on the air after 77% of listeners voted to stop the ban.  Digital sales of the song have exploded.

"I know my dad would be going insane right now," Dean Martin's daughter said.  "He would say, 'What's the matter with you? Get over it. It's just a fun song.' Because he was so sweet. He would never see anything bad in that. He was a great guy, fun guy, nice. And he wouldn't want to do anything offensive; that wasn't Dean Martin. So this has just been outrageous."

People stepped way overboard on this one. https://people.com/music/baby-its-cold-outside-composer-daughter-defends-song-bill-cosby/amp/

[Galway Eagle]

How about now?

I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well

[warriorchick]

I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well

Sounds to me like you are describing nearly every middle aged woman in Ireland. 

[warriorchick]

Why is it those complaining about this song seem to not be as agitated about songs like Jump Around? The consistency, or lack of it, is amusing.  This idea that the drink was spiked, no it wasn't.  In college we made drinks that tasted great, you couldn't tell much alcohol was in it, but that didn't mean some drug was in there.  Girls and guys would get drunk drinking the punch, which tasted like punch but didn't have a date rape drug in it. 

In Wisconsin (and likely many other states) alcohol is considered a date rape drug.

[Galway Eagle]

Sounds to me like you are describing nearly every middle aged woman in Ireland. 

She lives in the Chicago suburbs 

[warriorchick]

She lives in the Chicago suburbs 

I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".

And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.

My point still stands.   

[buckchuckler]

I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".

And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.

My point still stands.   

Just to be clear, is your point a negative stereotype against all women of a certain ethnicity? 

Seems like a point worth making.  Twice.

And after you went out of your way to say all women are beautiful too.  Odd.

[Lennys Tap]

I hadn't listened to the original in ages. When I heard this, I thought both sets of lyrics were parody. Nope, it really is the full on date rape, down to spiking the drink.

Taking things out of context again. Turning obvious consensual flirtation into rape is just the latest iteration of the literalist's war on common sense, Let's burn Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn while we're at it.

[Pakuni]

Taking things out of context again. Turning obvious consensual flirtation into rape is just the latest iteration of the literalist's war on common sense, Let's burn Tom Sawyer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn while we're at it.

Or maybe it's a real thing that two people can listen to the same lyric (or prose) and hear two very different meanings, and neither be wrong.
Art is subject to interpretation, you know, and what you see as "obvious" isn't so obvious to others.

[Lennys Tap]

At the risk of Godwinning the thread, let's bear in mind that the nazis didn't invent the swastika... they appropriated it from some sort of ancient Egyptian tribe or whatnot. 

Well, if the "Date Raper's Society of America" has appropriated "Baby It's Cold Outside" as their theme song or anthem your analogy makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.

[Lennys Tap]

Or maybe it's a real thing that two people can listen to the same lyric (or prose) and hear two very different meanings, and neither be wrong.
Art is subject to interpretation, you know, and what you see as "obvious" isn't so obvious to others.

True. Some people are incapable of nuance or context and can only take things literally. They believe that God created the world in 7 days and that the Beatles actually lived in a yellow submarine. Usually just kooky, but it can be dangerous.

[WarriorDad]

In Wisconsin (and likely many other states) alcohol is considered a date rape drug.

We told our guests what was in the punch.  The other clues were the kegs, and the fact we were having a party, in college.     I'm quite sure every guest knew what was going on.

[Pakuni]

True. Some people are incapable of nuance or context and can only take things literally. They believe that God created the world in 7 days and that the Beatles actually lived in a yellow submarine. Usually just kooky, but it can be dangerous.

Got it. Art is subject to interpretation, but only Lenny's interpretation is valid. Others are kooky and potentially dangerous.
You must be a blast at book club.

[Lennys Tap]

Got it. Art is subject to interpretation, but only Lenny's interpretation is valid. Others are kooky and potentially dangerous.
You must be a blast at book club.

Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.

I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.

[warriorchick]

Just to be clear, is your point a negative stereotype against all women of a certain ethnicity? 

Seems like a point worth making.  Twice.

And after you went out of your way to say all women are beautiful too.  Odd.

I made no statement, implied or otherwise,  about the beauty of the woman in that picture.

Galway put up that picture as proof that Sinead is an unattractive woman.  My comment was that she is no more unattractive than a typical middle-aged Irish woman. 

[Pakuni]

Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.

I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.

Well, for starters, your assertion that those who find the lyrics problematic are taking them too literally is wrong. Seeing the potential date-rapiness of it requires quite a bit of interpretation, as does your belief that it's all a bunch of harmless flirtation. A literal interpretation would be that this nice gentleman truly is concerned about the safety of this woman being out in such nasty weather ... something nobody believes.
You're not mad that people are taking the song too literally. You're made that their subjective interpretation is different than your subjective interpretation, because yours is the one that matters dammit.

Regardless, your argument here that nothing can or should be taken at face value is a bad one. Plenty of art, whether it be lyrics, poetry, prose, film or whatever, means exactly what it says. Or perhaps you'd like to share with us overly literal types what Prince really meant when he sang "I just need your body baby/From dusk till dawn."

[mu03eng]

Taking everything word for word literally is not an "interpretation". It's great for assembling a swing set but not when considering art.

I'm great at book club - very interested in hearing what other's thought the writer meant. I don't need anyone, though, to tell me what the book/song means today if taken literally (not as intended). Anyone able to read can do that - it has nothing to do with art.

By it's very definition, literal is an interpretation. It doesn't exclude other interpretations, but it is certainly on the spectrum of interpretation. People may or may not value the literal interpretation (as you seem to not) but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid interpretation. Sometimes the red dot on the canvas is just a red dot.

[Galway Eagle]

I said "every" middle-aged woman in Ireland, not "every other".

And she would still be in Ireland if smart people hadn't overlooked her "unattractiveness" and made her a music star.

My point still stands.   

Lol fair play to yah

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'll admit she had her looks years ago but has not aged well and definitely doesn't have the personality to pull off not aging well

Mental illness, which she has publically acknowledged, will do that to you.

[Galway Eagle]

Mental illness, which she has publically acknowledged, will do that to you.

sort of depends on the illness but yeah I'd agree. That is a different argument entirely though and not christmas song related nor is it related to whether a rock star is attractive (which apparently this thread is about now)