Journal Sentinel Subscriptions

[Pakuni]

Thank you for this.

Thanks.
I should have added, when discussing readers who go digital and then stop at the paywall or go incognito (sorry, cheap shot, I know), that when they hit the paywall and don't want to pay, they'll seek out another source for the same info. Can't read the Tribune story because of a paywall? Go to the Sun-Times. Go to ESPN if it's sports story. Go to a message board or Facebook. Go to Patch (which should burn in heck, by the way).
There are so many content providers out there now, it's not hard to find what you're looking for for free.

[mu_hilltopper]

Welp .. I hope the big city papers can figure out how to emulate the little papers and survive. 

Curious .. I remember when I started at MU, my memory is fuzzy, but they had very cheap deals for dorm students to subscribe to the MJS and Chicago Trib.    Do they still do that?   I imagine they quit physical paper delivery, but maybe entice the students for e-delivery, get them used to paying for content?

[MU82]

Thanks.
I should have added, when discussing readers who go digital and then stop at the paywall or go incognito (sorry, cheap shot, I know), that when they hit the paywall and don't want to pay, they'll seek out another source for the same info. Can't read the Tribune story because of a paywall? Go to the Sun-Times. Go to ESPN if it's sports story. Go to a message board or Facebook. Go to Patch (which should burn in heck, by the way).
There are so many content providers out there now, it's not hard to find what you're looking for for free.

Yep, and this also helps explain why it's difficult to make a living in the business.

Despite a seemingly insatiable appetite for "content," people in general do not want to pay for that content. (And I can't really throw stones, because I seek out free sites myself most of the time.) And there are only so many advertising dollars to go around. It's why Yahoo, AOL and numerous other sites with grand plans to create great sports sites had to abandon those plans. And as good as The Athletic is, they are up against it bigly, so we'll see.

I knew we were in trouble when my editors started using the word "content" instead of words like "quality," "depth," "accuracy," "research," "informed opinion," etc.

Anybody can provide "content," and for most sites on the interwebs, "anybody" does. Even us anybodys on Scoop. (Present company included.)

[GGGG]

Thanks.
I should have added, when discussing readers who go digital and then stop at the paywall or go incognito (sorry, cheap shot, I know), that when they hit the paywall and don't want to pay, they'll seek out another source for the same info. Can't read the Tribune story because of a paywall? Go to the Sun-Times. Go to ESPN if it's sports story. Go to a message board or Facebook. Go to Patch (which should burn in heck, by the way).
There are so many content providers out there now, it's not hard to find what you're looking for for free.

Right. It's unfortunately seeen as a commodity.

[Dish]

Seriously?  That is the paper I am talking about.  I didn't know you were a Carol Stream guy!

Yeah, depending on how long you've lived there, I used to also deliver the Daily Journal (not to be confused with the Daily Herald). The Daily Journal would have 12 year olds like me go door to door to collect subscription fees. The paper billed us 12 year old carriers, and in turn we had to go out and collect the fee from the subscribers, or we were out money. I tell people my first job was as a debt collector.

My parents still live in Carol Stream, off of Fair Oaks/Lies. If you ever go to the Jewel on Army Trail/County Farm, and a mentally/physically challenged bagger named Vicki helps you out, you'll make her day if you fill out a customer survey saying she did a good job (I'll hear about it at Christmas dinner too).

[Dish]

That is so cool.  We've loved and appreciated our paperboys/girls through the years.  Always great kids just trying to earn some spending money.  We also get Oberweis delivered and have had our same delivery driver for decades.  When our kids were young, they would go out to greet Mr. Julius and see if he had any extra chocolate milk on the truck and more often than not he was able to oblige.

That's funny, we had Oberweis delivery growing up too. I swear they had the best pizza, my parents probably ordered it once a month or so, and I remember it being great. I've gone to the Oberweis stores and can't find it there. I still always picture that Oberweis cooler outside my parents front porch.

[mu03eng]

Right. It's unfortunately seeen as a commodity.

It is a commodity by and large. The amount of actual insight/value in print versus social media, and local TV news is limited. I mean a lot of the local communities now have their own facebook pages to inform citizens of events or let people know about news, same with schools, etc. The amount of information that you can only get from a newspaper is really narrow in my book. You combine that with the choice newspapers have made to monetize on banner ads at the expense of a robust paywall means that the value proposition just isn't there.

[warriorchick]

Yeah, depending on how long you've lived there, I used to also deliver the Daily Journal (not to be confused with the Daily Herald). The Daily Journal would have 12 year olds like me go door to door to collect subscription fees. The paper billed us 12 year old carriers, and in turn we had to go out and collect the fee from the subscribers, or we were out money. I tell people my first job was as a debt collector.

My parents still live in Carol Stream, off of Fair Oaks/Lies. If you ever go to the Jewel on Army Trail/County Farm, and a mentally/physically challenged bagger named Vicki helps you out, you'll make her day if you fill out a customer survey saying she did a good job (I'll hear about it at Christmas dinner too).

I am pretty sure I know who Vicki is, although we have started shopping at Caputo's since it opened.

[Pakuni]

It is a commodity by and large. The amount of actual insight/value in print versus social media, and local TV news is limited. I mean a lot of the local communities now have their own facebook pages to inform citizens of events or let people know about news, same with schools, etc. The amount of information that you can only get from a newspaper is really narrow in my book. You combine that with the choice newspapers have made to monetize on banner ads at the expense of a robust paywall means that the value proposition just isn't there.

This is true. But the question you have to ask yourself is if you, as a citizen and consumer, want the news about your governments' activities to comes only from the government? I guess when it comes to garbage pick up days and when the town will be flushing hydrants, that's fine. But when it comes to your school district's proposed tax hike or the city's plans to give a developer $25 million in tax incentives or the county's effort to build a new jail? If you're happy knowing what they want you to know (and only what they want you to know), then by all means ignore your local newspaper/media. If you want a closer look at what's really happening, why and how it might affect you - and from a largely objective source whose only bias is a good story - maybe support your local outlet. Perhaps if more people supported (and paid attention to) local journalism, Wisconsin wouldn't be staring down a multiyear, multimillion dollar boondoggle called Foxconn.

Before you or someone else says it ...
Yes, your local news outlet also is going to tell you only what they want you to know. But again, the only bias there is a good story. I've worked alongside local journalists for decades, and the vast, vast majority of them only care about getting a good story and getting it right (and preferably getting it before the competition). Many of them are downright idealistic about the importance of their work and see it as a service to the greater good. When it comes to things like local government, schools, crime, etc., there's no liberal/conservative bias and there's no clickbait.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but my intuitive guess is that people in smaller towns trend older and less educated. And perhaps their relative lack of technology adoption is helping those local papers?

South Wayne, WI.  Population 489 (2010 census).

Explains so much.

[4everwarriors]

How duz da Marquette Tribune survive, hey?

[4everwarriors]

South Wayne, WI.  Population 489 (2010 census).

Explains so much.

Watt duz der Vatican look like, hey?

[jsglow]

That's funny, we had Oberweis delivery growing up too. I swear they had the best pizza, my parents probably ordered it once a month or so, and I remember it being great. I've gone to the Oberweis stores and can't find it there. I still always picture that Oberweis cooler outside my parents front porch.

I could go outside and take a pic if you like.  And next time you're coming to visit your folks, PM chick or me and stop by for a beer.  I'm sure you could walk.  And I definitely know Vicki.

[mu03eng]

This is true. But the question you have to ask yourself is if you, as a citizen and consumer, want the news about your governments' activities to comes only from the government? I guess when it comes to garbage pick up days and when the town will be flushing hydrants, that's fine. But when it comes to your school district's proposed tax hike or the city's plans to give a developer $25 million in tax incentives or the county's effort to build a new jail? If you're happy knowing what they want you to know (and only what they want you to know), then by all means ignore your local newspaper/media. If you want a closer look at what's really happening, why and how it might affect you - and from a largely objective source whose only bias is a good story - maybe support your local outlet. Perhaps if more people supported (and paid attention to) local journalism, Wisconsin wouldn't be staring down a multiyear, multimillion dollar boondoggle called Foxconn.

Before you or someone else says it ...
Yes, your local news outlet also is going to tell you only what they want you to know. But again, the only bias there is a good story. I've worked alongside local journalists for decades, and the vast, vast majority of them only care about getting a good story and getting it right (and preferably getting it before the competition). Many of them are downright idealistic about the importance of their work and see it as a service to the greater good. When it comes to things like local government, schools, crime, etc., there's no liberal/conservative bias and there's no clickbait.

Don't disagree one bit, but what is the frequency with which I need to get that information in the "newspaper" format. How often is there a local scandal if you will, that I need information on and how frequently do I need need that info in that format?

Let me give an example, take the Milwaukee County pension scandal. Millions of words spilled on that, but if I had read the initial breaking article and then read an all encompassing summary article 3 weeks later and filled the in between with social media and local TV what have I missed? What I'm driving at is your value add use case is true but I can still get that value add merely within the 10 article a month free limitation the paper itself provides.

Put another way, what are the things I can only get from a newspaper and need at a frequency that exceeds what they are giving away free. It'll be different for different people no doubt, but until newspapers figure out what their media delivers in value and at quantity that someone can't get anywhere else for free or as part of a subscription they are already paying for other reasons(cable subscription, etc) they are a commodity and there current revenue model doesn't align with that.

[Benny B]

I am pretty sure I know who Vicki is, although we have started shopping at Caputo's since it opened.

Melrose Park, right?  Is that one a full blown grocery?  The one I've seen in Lake Forest is basically a glorified cheese and coffee shop with a modest deli & sandwich counter... I'm sure it has enough offerings to sustain someone straight of the boat from Sicily, but it's a long ways from being a straight-up substitute for Jewel for your average God-fearing American (or hairless atheist from Carolina).

[GGGG]

South Wayne, WI.  Population 489 (2010 census).

Explains so much.

I am old.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I would gladly subscribe to the local paper for the burb we live in. I did for years until the only method of delivery was to take a JS subscription because they took over the delivery of my local once a week paper. No more city hall meeting notes etc.

[rocket surgeon]

<sigh>

Yeah you don't get what I said with "everything's political."  Context matters.

And if you think that ad revenue is down because of a political bent, that shows an ignorance of history. Newspapers used to be *much* more political than they are now. The problem now is lack of content and technology is usurping their readership.

Educate thyself rocket.

listen sully-you've proven yourself to be a little too slippery for me to pin down given your conversation on "free" content. 

   but anywhoo, the market is flooded with much of the same and people ain't buying all of it.  companies buy ads where they think their investment is money well spent.  otherwise it becomes a donation.  companies only have so much budgeted for marketing.  competition for that money is, well, where one would find the most bang for their buck.  when ad revenue goes down, guess what?  newspapers have trouble paying the bills, right? 

  how does a newspaper survive?  come up with something different.  set themselves apart from all of the papers going under  push subscriber-ship up and bingo, companies will buy ad space.  pretty simple.  if it happens to be political, so be it.  but produce something people want.  everything does not have to be political

[Pakuni]

Don't disagree one bit, but what is the frequency with which I need to get that information in the "newspaper" format. How often is there a local scandal if you will, that I need information on and how frequently do I need need that info in that format?

Let me give an example, take the Milwaukee County pension scandal. Millions of words spilled on that, but if I had read the initial breaking article and then read an all encompassing summary article 3 weeks later and filled the in between with social media and local TV what have I missed? What I'm driving at is your value add use case is true but I can still get that value add merely within the 10 article a month free limitation the paper itself provides.

Put another way, what are the things I can only get from a newspaper and need at a frequency that exceeds what they are giving away free. It'll be different for different people no doubt, but until newspapers figure out what their media delivers in value and at quantity that someone can't get anywhere else for free or as part of a subscription they are already paying for other reasons(cable subscription, etc) they are a commodity and there current revenue model doesn't align with that.

These are all fair questions, but I can't answer any of them because it really comes down to personal tastes and interests. Some people care a lot about local news. Some don't care at all. Some live and die with their hometown sports teams or alma mater. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people in Milwaukee who never watch the Bucks and plenty of Marquette grads who couldn't name the head basketball coach. I personally don't care at all about celebrity news, by People magazine has more than 3 million readers and TMZ gets a few million unique clicks a month.

You write things like " until newspapers figure out what their media delivers in value and at quantity," but the reality is the the readership numbers show that newspapers do deliver something of value and in quantity. The problem is, they and other content producers badly misunderstood the internet and trained consumers to expect content for free. They viewed the web as a marketing tool for their print product, not a competitor. And here we are. It may or may not ever recover from that, but again, newspapers' struggles aren't because people don't read them or don't want local news. It's because people have come to expect their content for free and are too easily able to find it for free.

[barfolomew]

Melrose Park, right?  Is that one a full blown grocery?  The one I've seen in Lake Forest is basically a glorified cheese and coffee shop with a modest deli & sandwich counter... I'm sure it has enough offerings to sustain someone straight of the boat from Sicily, but it's a long ways from being a straight-up substitute for Jewel for your average God-fearing American (or hairless atheist from Carolina).

There are several locations in the western burbs, and all are full grocery.

It's been interesting to see the "niche" supermarkets like Caputo's and Pete's and others run in to fill the void left by Dominik's demise. They all seem to be midway between a traditional Jewel-type market and a Whole Foods.

[warriorchick]

There are several locations in the western burbs, and all are full grocery.

It's been interesting to see the "niche" supermarkets like Caputo's and Pete's and others run in to fill the void left by Dominik's demise. They all seem to be midway between a traditional Jewel-type market and a Whole Foods.

We go to the huge Caputos that is connected to their corporate headquarters on Shmale and North. It opened a couple of years ago. It's got a bar in it. Ask for Billy. He makes great bloodies.

[MU82]

  how does a newspaper survive?  come up with something different. 

Yep. This is why the Failing NYT isn't failing at all, and why the WaPo is in the midst of a huge comeback, and why the WSJ is a go-to publication for anybody looking for serious news.

It's also why many small, local papers are still doing OK. They offer what the big boys never have and never will.

[Eldon]

This is true. But the question you have to ask yourself is if you, as a citizen and consumer, want the news about your governments' activities to comes only from the government? I guess when it comes to garbage pick up days and when the town will be flushing hydrants, that's fine. But when it comes to your school district's proposed tax hike or the city's plans to give a developer $25 million in tax incentives or the county's effort to build a new jail? If you're happy knowing what they want you to know (and only what they want you to know), then by all means ignore your local newspaper/media. If you want a closer look at what's really happening, why and how it might affect you - and from a largely objective source whose only bias is a good story - maybe support your local outlet. Perhaps if more people supported (and paid attention to) local journalism, Wisconsin wouldn't be staring down a multiyear, multimillion dollar boondoggle called Foxconn.

Before you or someone else says it ...
Yes, your local news outlet also is going to tell you only what they want you to know. But again, the only bias there is a good story. I've worked alongside local journalists for decades, and the vast, vast majority of them only care about getting a good story and getting it right (and preferably getting it before the competition). Many of them are downright idealistic about the importance of their work and see it as a service to the greater good. When it comes to things like local government, schools, crime, etc., there's no liberal/conservative bias and there's no clickbait.

There are community-run Facebook pages out there that discuss things like local school board elections, tax hikes, etc.

[WarriorDad]

There are articles that are fact-filled, and editorials/opinions/analyses that are opinions.

Sometimes opinions do bleed over into what are supposed to be articles, and I wish that were not the case, but it doesn't happen nearly as often as you contend.

Thank goodness for the free press, now more than ever.

It happens more than it used to, which is what I articulated.  If I want opinion based content, there are those available to read and labeled as such. 

[MU82]

It happens more than it used to, which is what I articulated.  If I want opinion based content, there are those available to read and labeled as such.

It does not happen nearly as much as you suggest. Most major newspapers do a great job of separating "pure news" from opinion IMHO.

TV "news" shows? That's a whole 'nother story.