What did I just witness????

[nathanziarek]

I second the paragraph markers comment. That was incredibly hard to read.

Also, just for the record, since you like facts and data, the average RPI for UCLA, MU, UNC and Tenn are below:

Median
UCLA: 125
Tenn: 96
MU: 124
UNC: 121

Lowest
UCLA: 8
Tenn: 10
MU: 9
UNC: 24

Highest
UCLA: 258
Tenn: 341
MU: 331
UNC: 293

Now, I'm not a numbers guy (I think the games speak for themselves) but clearly MU is hanging with the "big boys."

So my numbers are completely transparent, I had to remove one team from UCLA, Tenn and MUs schedules because I couldn't find them. In MUs case it was the Chaminade game in the Maui Invitational, and they are DII. I didn't care enough to find out if that was also the case with the other teams I couldn't find, I just skipped them. UNC had no un-findable teams.

[Bling]

why do you guys even respond to this guy?  don't you think it would piss him off more if he were ignored?

don't fuel his rants

[MUVOL06]

Prevent Offense, I like how you can skew data to make it seem like you are smart.  I think you need to define what the hell numbers you are saying up there.  And I guess since none of you have an attention span or a even a fourth-grade reading level, I will break my posts into paragraphs.

1st off, I will start and say your numbers are not the individual teams RPI's, it is the average RPI of the opponents those teams have played.  SO for the median number, TN has by far played the best opponents, for that I thank you for helping my point. But where are you getting the median RPI?  Did you just find every opponent and average it out yourself?  The Strength of Schedule that they add to their rankings goes like this:

TN: 4th hardest
UNC: 16th
UCLA:22nd
MU: 31st

SO Marquette has the easiest schedule in the eyes of the NCAA among those teams

As for the lowest RPI, you are completely wrong.  the 341st team is Eastern Illinois, a team TN has not played this season.  EIU is also the worst team in the RPI. TN worst RPI opponent was Prarie View A&M @ 326.  MU is still Sacramento St.  @ 331.   So MU has played the worst opponent so far.

And  my favorite biased numbers are the highest ranked opponents.  MU did play the 9th team in the country.  That team is Duke, a team MU lost to.  So who cares if you played a great team if you lost.  The highest ranked victory MU has is against 16th Wisc.  TN has wins over 10th Vanderbilt, 14th Ole Miss, 15th Xavier.  Thats 3 opponents that are better ranked than MU's best win.


http://kenpom.com/rpi.php

You can check those numbers there.

But since your not a numbers guy, and say the games speak for themselves.  Do you really think MU can hang with the big teams.  How about that Louisville win the other day?  Or wait, that was a 20 point loss to an unranked team that would lose to Seton hall last night.  The only win as I have said was a win over wisc.  Thats not a GREAT win.  It is a good win, but it is their only win.  Come on you guys, stop being so biased and become more realistic.  MU is just an average team.  The numbers speak for themselves.  Oh, and the games for those who don't like numbers say MU is not playing too well right now

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Bruce clapclap clapclap

Pearl clapclap clapclap

Bruce clapclap clapclap

Pearl clapclap clapclap

Bruce clapclap clapclap

Pearl clapclap clapclap

Bruce clapclap clapclap

Pearl clapclap clapclap

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If we are going to do nominations again... I nominate this thread for weirdest new topic.

I guess it's a nice change of pace from the normal schedule bashing, big-man loving and nickname hating stuff... but why are we comparing UT to MU?

UT is a good team and having a good year.

MU is a good team and having a good year.

NEXT TOPIC!

MU an average team? Seriously? I'm not promising a national title (or even a conference title)... but this year's program certainly isn't average.

Again, what a weird thread.

[MUVOL06]

The majority of teams do not win National Championships or conference titles.  That makes a team average.  If you can not contend for either title , like Marquette, you are average.  Thats it.

[scooter]

Now this last post may be the most ridiculous of all.  So if you don't win a conference title or a National Title, you're average? By the way, notice my use of the contraction, VOL - I see you like to use the word your for you're repeatedly.  So the winner of the A10 conference (whoever that may be)is not average, but the seond place team in the Big East is??????/

[NavinRJohnson]

If we are going to do nominations again... I nominate this thread for weirdest new topic.

Even though I am certainly guilty of feeding the troll, I was thinking the same thing. First of all why is there some odd little Tennessee (of all places) fan here pretending to also be an MU fan? Second, why are others (myself included) arguing with him?

[LovinCrowder]

If we are going to do nominations again... I nominate this thread for weirdest new topic.

Even though I am certainly guilty of feeding the troll, I was thinking the same thing. First of all why is there some odd little Tennessee (of all places) fan here pretending to also be an MU fan? Second, why are others (myself included) arguing with him?

Gee.. let's think about this one.....(now this is tough...) --  maybe it's because YOU were the one that started this thread in mockery of the thread I started???????

I don't know any of you people but I think it's safe to say that you CAN like, and be a fan of, more than one team.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The majority of teams do not win National Championships or conference titles.  That makes a team average.  If you can not contend for either title , like Marquette, you are average.  Thats it.

I think I know what you are trying to say... but you need a different word than "average" because you aren't using it correctly.

Here is the definition of average:
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/average

1 a: a single value (as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values b: mean 1b2 a: an estimation of or approximation to an arithmetic mean b: a level (as of intelligence) typical of a group, class, or series <above the average>3: a ratio expressing the average performance especially of an athletic team or an athlete computed according to the number of opportunities for successful performance

Your are using the word "average" to represent the vast majority of teams, which just isn't what "average" means.

I know often times it becomes its culturally common for a word's actual meaning to be implied or whatever... but seriously, what you are describing as "average" isn't even close.

I don't want to argue with you about hoops (because at this point its just differing opinions)... but your poor use of punctuation, grammar and syntax are hurting your ability to communicate your ideas accurately.

I think the word "majority" might work better than "average".

There are elite teams... and then there is the majority of others. I think that is what you are trying to say. Right?

[nathanziarek]

Prevent Offense, I like how you can skew data to make it seem like you are smart.  I think you need to define what the hell numbers you are saying up there.  And I guess since none of you have an attention span or a even a fourth-grade reading level, I will break my posts into paragraphs.

I'm a guilty of feeding I was just trying to point out to this guy that he is as guilty of being biased and misinformed as anyone. I might have messed up in my table when I averaged the RPIs of the opposing teams, and that I'll admit. Originally when I couldn't find a team, like Arkansas Monticello, I was going to award them the lowest (highest) RPI. Then I decided against it, but must have erased the wrong number. Oops. Still proved my point that the average RPI of the teams faced are not drastically different. Heck, looking at the fact that MU is 31st in SOS with nearly the entire BE schedule ahead of us proves my point too.

But, after reading this inflammatory response from an obviously jaded and irrational individual (who apparently is so perfect that even gentle criticism -- like his lacking of paragraph structure -- disturbs him to the core), I too will bow out.

Tenn might be better than MU this year. I'd wager UNC is. That doesn't make MU average -- and there is a such thing as a good season without a title.

I'm outie

[MUVOL06]

Am I jaded and irrational because I am right.  All I have done is post facts.  You can attack my lack of punctuation, and word usage.  I could care less, it's not like Im in school being graded for something on a message board.  I find it funny though how you are starting to attack the little things about what I am saying because my argument is too fact based to argue.  Call me a troll, tell me I don't support MU, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.  My goal in my arguments is to provide UNBIASED factual information.  Im sorry the facts do not paint a pretty picture for MU.  I know its hard for everyone here to distance themselves from their blind love.  Marquette is not an elite team.  They are in the "MAJORITY."

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't know any of you people but I think it's safe to say that you CAN like, and be a fan of, more than one team.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. That other guy is clearly NOT an MU fan.

[LovinCrowder]

I don't know any of you people but I think it's safe to say that you CAN like, and be a fan of, more than one team.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. That other guy is clearly NOT an MU fan.

Ok, fine, I can accept that.  I guess I am put off by the fact that you mocked me to begin with.  Like I stated, I was only stating my opinion - I never said anything negative about Marquette or any players like some people do here.  I was merely stating that it would be great if Marquette had those two types of players. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Am I jaded and irrational because I am right.  All I have done is post facts.  You can attack my lack of punctuation, and word usage.  I could care less, it's not like Im in school being graded for something on a message board.  I find it funny though how you are starting to attack the little things about what I am saying because my argument is too fact based to argue.  Call me a troll, tell me I don't support MU, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.  My goal in my arguments is to provide UNBIASED factual information.  Im sorry the facts do not paint a pretty picture for MU.  I know its hard for everyone here to distance themselves from their blind love.  Marquette is not an elite team.  They are in the "MAJORITY."

The correct phrase is "couldn't care less". Not "could care less". (think about what you are actually trying to say).

I'm picking on your writing because you claim to present a factual argument, but it's hard to be factual when you don't even know the definition of the words you are using.

[4everwarriors]

is spot on. UT has one hell of a coach.

[scooter]

is spot on. UT has one hell of a coach.

You mean the womens' coach?

(okay, okay, that was just thrown in there for a laugh)

[MUVOL06]

2002mualum....stop being bitter after another disappointed loss.  MU is not a good team, I know you cant argue me on my facts, so just keep picking on me instead.  Either way MU looked pathetic today.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002mualum....stop being bitter after another disappointed loss.  MU is not a good team, I know you cant argue me on my facts, so just keep picking on me instead.  Either way MU looked pathetic today.

MU has looked bad the past 2 games, but to say they aren't a good team is just short-sighted.

IF/WHEN UT loses a couple in a row, it won't make them a bad team.

I do think UT is probably better than MU... but that doesn't mean MU is not good. Conversely, when MU wins a couple in a row, they won't be suddenly be "great". Get it? The sports pendulum doesn't swing like that... especially in college hoops.

MU has not played well on the road (at all), and has some serious work to do... but again, that doesn't mean that they aren't good.

Also, here is a piece of advice: When you go on another team's board to tell them how their team isn't good... make sure your writing is tight, otherwise you look silly and have to ask people to quit picking on you for not being able to write.

Keep a level head, use facts, and understand what you are actually trying to say when you write it.

[MUVOL06]

MUalum...For the thousandth time, tell me what MU has done this season to prove they are a good team?/ use your facts.  Where are there solid wins? Where is their difficult schedule? Read all of my posts.  I have asked the same questions in every post and no one has responded to them.  All MU has shown this year is they are capable of one solid road win (Wisc).  They can beat the bad teams in division 1 basketball (the Savannah states, coppin states, IPFW). They lose to just about every team in a major conference. (Duke, WVU, Louisville, UCONN).  If Tennessee happens to lose 2 straight this year they still have great wins over Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, @Xavier, @Gonzaga, neutral court vs WVU.  So keep calling me names and criticizing some small errors in my writing.  At the end of the day you all know I am right and have used facts.  All you say is that "MU isn't bad, i dont know why, they just arent.  MU is an elite team." For the last time, show me the wins that PROVE this.  Its one thing to say stupid things, its another to back them up with facts.     

[MUVOL06]

Before someone jumps all over me, in my last posts, I say Savannah States, Coppin States in reference to teams like them, including themselves.  I know it is Savannah State and Coppin State.

[NavinRJohnson]

Before someone jumps all over me, in my last posts, I say Savannah States, Coppin States in reference to teams like them, including themselves.  I know it is Savannah State and Coppin State.

Go Vols!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

MUalum...For the thousandth time, tell me what MU has done this season to prove they are a good team?/ use your facts.  Where are there solid wins? Where is their difficult schedule? Read all of my posts.  I have asked the same questions in every post and no one has responded to them.  All MU has shown this year is they are capable of one solid road win (Wisc).  They can beat the bad teams in division 1 basketball (the Savannah states, coppin states, IPFW). They lose to just about every team in a major conference. (Duke, WVU, Louisville, UCONN).  If Tennessee happens to lose 2 straight this year they still have great wins over Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, @Xavier, @Gonzaga, neutral court vs WVU.  So keep calling me names and criticizing some small errors in my writing.  At the end of the day you all know I am right and have used facts.  All you say is that "MU isn't bad, i dont know why, they just arent.  MU is an elite team." For the last time, show me the wins that PROVE this.  Its one thing to say stupid things, its another to back them up with facts.     

OK,

I will be more clear:

Wins over:
Oklahoma St
UW-Madison
UProv
Seton Hall
Notre Dame

A current RPI of 23 with a chance to improve on that as they get more wins at home (it appears like wins on the road will be tough for this team, we will have to see how that goes).

I'm not claiming that MU is elite. I'm not claiming that MU is better than UT.

Your claim before was that they were "average", which isn't true.

Now you claim that they "aren't good", which really isn't true (although its more a matter of opinion than the whole "average" thing).

I think a team in a major conf. with an RPI in the top 25 at this point in the season has proven they are pretty good.

Lastly, I watch MU actually play. So, while I have provided some numbers, I'm also giving you an honest assessment that they are a pretty good basketball team. They have some weaknesses, but they are certainly not as bad as you have portrayed them

Let's see where MU is at the end of the season. My bet is that they will be considered a good team.

[MUVOL06]

I also watch MU play, every game.  What I have seen is that Oklahoma State, Seton Hall, and Notre Dame are by no means considered great wins for MU.  What I have seen though is a team that can not shoot the ball.  I believe that you even say on another thread that MU is streaky shooting at best, something I have said before.  The rest of the season will be tough.  Every team they play will run the zone and force them to shoot.  For a few games they will shoot well.  They have proven that every few games they can shoot well, ie ND, Providence.  I would not be surprised to see MU lose 6-7 more games(@ Cincy, Louisville, @ Seton Hall, Pitt, G'Town, Nova, @ Syracuse).  Trust me, they will struggle to get into the NCAA tournament.  When MU is sitting on the bubble later this year, they will have very few games to convince the committee with, saying they deserve a spot.  They need some "Quality wins" to make their case.  A win over Georgetown, Pitt, or Villanova would greatly help them.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I also watch MU play, every game.  What I have seen is that Oklahoma State, Seton Hall, and Notre Dame are by no means considered great wins for MU.  What I have seen though is a team that can not shoot the ball.  I believe that you even say on another thread that MU is streaky shooting at best, something I have said before.  The rest of the season will be tough.  Every team they play will run the zone and force them to shoot.  For a few games they will shoot well.  They have proven that every few games they can shoot well, ie ND, Providence.  I would not be surprised to see MU lose 6-7 more games(@ Cincy, Louisville, @ Seton Hall, Pitt, G'Town, Nova, @ Syracuse).  Trust me, they will struggle to get into the NCAA tournament.  When MU is sitting on the bubble later this year, they will have very few games to convince the committee with, saying they deserve a spot.  They need some "Quality wins" to make their case.  A win over Georgetown, Pitt, or Villanova would greatly help them.

I can't disagree with what you are saying (that they need to win more games), but that fact that you think they "aren't good" is just a little silly.

You asked for facts, I gave you facts. While I don't think any of those are "great wins" (never said that they were), they are certainly good enough to put MU in the top 25 of RPI.

FACT.

Now the rest of it you are just giving an opinion/prediction. That's not facts.

You just don't think MU is good. That is just your opinion. No big deal, you are entitled to it. But, please don't present conjecture as factual. It isn't. I gave you facts, and you ran off at the mouth/keyboard about where MU will be at the end of the year.

They haven't played well lately. That's factual.

Predicting where they end up at the end of the year is NOT factual.

Again, you may not think that tied for 4th place in the BEAST and top 25 in RPI is "good", but I suspect most programs/experts would consider that a good team.