What did I just witness????

[MUVOL06]

See this is what I am talking about.  I never presented them as losing 6-7 games as fact.  Thats a fact.  I said I wouldn't be surprised, where does that mean "They will?"  I presented that as my opinion, meaning I believe it could happen.  I have never tried to play off my opinion as fact, ever.  And that is a fact.

[scooter]

 Trust me, they will struggle to get into the NCAA tournament.  When MU is sitting on the bubble later this year, they will have very few games to convince the committee with, saying they deserve a spot.  They need some "Quality wins" to make their case.  A win over Georgetown, Pitt, or Villanova would greatly help them.
[/quote]

This is beautiful - come on this board, incite a near riot while attacking the "home" team on this blog, then ask us to "trust you" as if you're the authority on all things college basketball.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Actually, if we hadn't beaten Pitt in the last game of the year last season, it would not have been surprising if we had been left home with Syracuse taking our place.

I think missing the tournament at this point would take a total collapse, but if we don't start playing better it could happen.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

See this is what I am talking about.  I never presented them as losing 6-7 games as fact.  Thats a fact.  I said I wouldn't be surprised, where does that mean "They will?"  I presented that as my opinion, meaning I believe it could happen.  I have never tried to play off my opinion as fact, ever.  And that is a fact.

Hold on.

Let me be be more concise.

You asked for factual evidence that MU was a good team.

I supplied you with a number of decent wins (some better than others) and MU's current RPI rating.

Those are the facts.

That's it.

[MUVOL06]

Let ME be more concise then.  MU has 2 good wins, Wisconsin and Providence.  That is it. 2 quality wins will not get a team in the tournament.  MU has had the chance to pick up solid victories (Duke and WVU) and could not get them. The selection committee is not concerned with losses (close, big, whatever....a loss is a loss).  If MU would play a tougher out of conference schedule they would have a chance to pick up some more appealing wins, but they don't. This means they have to win the big games in their conference, and so far they have not. 

*Opinion alert* (not to be confused with as fact)

If MU beats the teams that they are higher ranked than, and lose to those who are higher than MU,  then they are going to have a tough time making the tournament.  There are so many teams with 2 quality wins (ands even more will be around at the end of the season), that MU could very well get lost in the shuffle.   

With the way MU is playing I do not think it is unrealistic for them to struggle the rest of the season, they have showed nothing to prove otherwise.  They have played 17 games so far, and only have 2 quality wins to show for it. 

[NavinRJohnson]

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Let ME be more concise then.  MU has 2 good wins, Wisconsin and Providence.  That is it. 2 quality wins will not get a team in the tournament.  MU has had the chance to pick up solid victories (Duke and WVU) and could not get them. The selection committee is not concerned with losses (close, big, whatever....a loss is a loss).  If MU would play a tougher out of conference schedule they would have a chance to pick up some more appealing wins, but they don't. This means they have to win the big games in their conference, and so far they have not. 

*Opinion alert* (not to be confused with as fact)

If MU beats the teams that they are higher ranked than, and lose to those who are higher than MU,  then they are going to have a tough time making the tournament.  There are so many teams with 2 quality wins (ands even more will be around at the end of the season), that MU could very well get lost in the shuffle.   

With the way MU is playing I do not think it is unrealistic for them to struggle the rest of the season, they have showed nothing to prove otherwise.  They have played 17 games so far, and only have 2 quality wins to show for it. 

If MU only has 2 quality wins, how are they ranked in the polls and be in the top 25 in RPI?

How does that work? Is the system that flawed?

I understand we have differing opinions at this point, and that's aok... no problem with that.

I'm only debating the fact that you called MU "average", and now you claim that they "aren't good".

The facts (which you asked for) don't really support your current claim, regardless of what MU does the rest of the year. 

At the end of the day, we have different opinions. MU is going to play the rest of the games, so I guess we will see at the end of the year how "good" or "bad" MU really is.

[MUVOL06]

Marquette is still ranked in both polls because they started the season highly ranked and only have 4 losses.  After having played such a weak non conference schedule, this comes as no surprise.  The voters still think MU has a chance to be ranked in the top 20 if they can get a quality win.  The last two losses hurt MU, but not as bad as people would think.  Louisville and UCONN are decent teams.  Had MU started the season outside of the top 25, I think that they wouldn't be ranked right now.  The only win that could have moved them into the polls, in this case, would have been Wisconsin.  After the last two games however, they Would have fallen out (If it hadn't occurred after the WVU loss).  Again, this is pure speculation as I do not know what the voters are thinking.  Unfortunately, the voters do not put teams into the NCAA tournament.  The NCAA does.  As for your comment that the facts do not support my claim, you are wrong.  Let me clear this up for you.  Currently MU has  2 wins that mean something in the eyes of the selection committee (Wisconsin and Providence).  2 wins is not enough to get you into the tournament.  If MU does not make the tournament that means that they are not a good team. Nobody considers NIT teams good.  Unless MU gets a win against a team like G'Town, Pitt or Villanova (at this point in the season that seems kind of difficult) they will most likely not make the tournament. The losses will add up, and they will fall from the rankings. Also, they just won't have the quality wins to convince someone they deserve a spot in the tournament.  I agree that we have differing opinions.  You obviously see something in MU that I don't.  You seem to be hanging on to the preseason hype of the big 3.  I'm relying on what MU has proven, that they severely lack in quality wins.  If they can't pick up at least one more big win in conference,the NIT could become a real possibility. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

ND isn't a quality win? It has to be a better win than Providence, doesn't it?

I know what this guy is trying to say, but he's nuts if he doesn't think we're going to beat a couple of these "quality teams" at home the rest of the year.

I think we'll make the tourney, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. We could easily lose 7 or 8 games in the Big East.

[MUVOL06]

I am not going to bet money because I think MU will make the tournament.  I have never said that they won't, but I do believe that they need at least 1 more significant victory to strengthen their resume.  Without another big win it will be tough, and I think with their current resume is not strong enough to validate them making the tournament.  In the coming weeks I hope MU succeeds and develops a jump shot.  If this happens, MU will be able to run down teams because the zone will not defeat them.  I wish MU luck this week against DePaul.  I will not be posting on this thread again because it is just two sides (albeit my side is much smaller) arguing over the same points.  I really hope I am proved wrong and MU makes a deep tourney run.  I will still post my thoughts on this site, because I feel as though I provide an unbiased factual view of MU basketball.  Although some of you may find me a bit harsh on the Eagles, I have used a fact-based argument which can not be ignored, even by the most die-hard fans.  We will all have to see how this season turns out, and I believe with some small changes that MU can be a difficult team to face.  When this season is over, I want to be able to say "Wow, MU really had a great season."  These are my hopes. 

In regards to certain people who have tried ever-so-hard to discredit me, going so far as to call me names and ridicule the smallest of errors in my writing, I really enjoyed the spirited discussions.  I hope you have learned as much from me, as I have learned from you.  Go Golden Eagles!  But we will always be Warriors!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am not going to bet money because I think MU will make the tournament.  I have never said that they won't, but I do believe that they need at least 1 more significant victory to strengthen their resume.  Without another big win it will be tough, and I think with their current resume is not strong enough to validate them making the tournament.  In the coming weeks I hope MU succeeds and develops a jump shot.  If this happens, MU will be able to run down teams because the zone will not defeat them.  I wish MU luck this week against DePaul.  I will not be posting on this thread again because it is just two sides (albeit my side is much smaller) arguing over the same points.  I really hope I am proved wrong and MU makes a deep tourney run.  I will still post my thoughts on this site, because I feel as though I provide an unbiased factual view of MU basketball.  Although some of you may find me a bit harsh on the Eagles, I have used a fact-based argument which can not be ignored, even by the most die-hard fans.  We will all have to see how this season turns out, and I believe with some small changes that MU can be a difficult team to face.  When this season is over, I want to be able to say "Wow, MU really had a great season."  These are my hopes. 

In regards to certain people who have tried ever-so-hard to discredit me, going so far as to call me names and ridicule the smallest of errors in my writing, I really enjoyed the spirited discussions.  I hope you have learned as much from me, as I have learned from you.  Go Golden Eagles!  But we will always be Warriors!

Just so you know, I'm not angry or trying to pick on your writing. But, I do believe when you use terms like "average" to describe any team that doesn't win their conference, it's hard to understand where you are coming from.

I don't disagree that MU is going to win more games to get in the tourny (duh)... it just seems like you are trying to knock down MU fans and make us realize that our team isn't that good.

Trust me, I'm well aware of how good/not good MU actually is.

[ecompt]

I would hate to see it come down to our game against Gtown as to whether or not we make the tournament. Hopefully we can win two or three on the road so that isn't the case.

[scooter]

Just so you know, I'm not angry or trying to pick on your writing. But, I do believe when you use terms like "average" to describe any team that doesn't win their conference, it's hard to understand where you are coming from.


That's the part I found peculiar.  A team that doesn't win their conference is "average".  So, by season's end, he would have us believe that either UNC or Duke is average since one of them will NOT win the ACC.

[MarquetteVol]

Here's a fact-based argument for you. The wondrous Tennessee Volunteers are about to lose to the #179 RPI team in the nation. How about 'dem apples?

[MUVOL06]

Heres a fact based argument for you too.  MU 3 losses.  TN 2 loses.  MU 20th ranked.  TN 5th ranked.  MU- 2 quality wins.  TN 7 quality wins.  No team has gone undefeated in a season since the 70's.  Teams lose games.  Id take a 6 point loss to UK @ Rupp over being embarrassed by Louisville and UCONN. 

[rocky_warrior]

Heres a fact based argument for you too.  MU 3 losses.  TN 2 loses.  MU 20th ranked.  TN 5th ranked.  MU- 2 quality wins.  TN 7 quality wins.  No team has gone undefeated in a season since the 70's.  Teams lose games.  Id take a 6 point loss to UK @ Rupp over being embarrassed by Louisville and UCONN. 

Ok, let me spell this out for you.  Losing to RPI #179 = BAD LOSS. 

Now, since you're a king of stats as the NCAA committee sees them, how many of those does MU have?

Seriously, if you're really a fan of both teams, why you gotta knock MU all the time? 

[ecompt]

VOL, our road win at Wisconsin will greatly surpass ANYTHING the Volunteers do all year.

[MarquetteVol]

Kentucky blows. There are 178 teams ahead of them in the RPI and they beat a team which you seem to paint as the second-coming of UCLA in the Wooden era. This loss really hurts Tennessee, especially if UK is as bad as they seem to be. You have to look past the names on the jerseys and the logo at center court, and recognize that Kentucky sucks this year and this an extremely embarrassing loss. Losing to sub-150 teams in the RPI,l particularly this late in the season will drop you a line in the bracket. Right now, the Vols lost a #2 seed and are looking at a #3. That's only spot higher than Joe Lunardi has Marquette. Seems the difference between great teams and below average teams can be as minimal as a one-seed difference.

[MUVOL06]

I will make this statement and then leave.  These are my thoughts. The stats have shown that MU is not as good as TN this year (even with the loss to UK).  I know most of you will come back with "they have one more bad loss than MU"  haha. Fine, your right. TN is still higher ranked, they still have better wins, they still have fewer loses.  TN in my opinion is on a higher level than MU, the stats have proven that.  I feel like TN is a final four caliber team, and they have the wins and stats to back that up.  If they don't go that far, then oh well.  They do have the talent though.  I feel MU has the talent to make the tournament. I don't think they will go far.  They have no proven scorers or proven interior men.  If they go father than TN in the tourney than so be it.  I won't be mad.  You can all harass me for that, but I will say good for MU.  They exceeded my opinion of them.  I just don't see them as a very good team this year.  They have proved to me nothing (yet). The rest of the season should be fun.  MU still needs to pick up a quality win, TN has a great game on Feb 23rd against Memphis.  This could easily be a battle of top 5 teams.  I encourage everyone to watch.  Not only for TN, but I think Memphis, even with their number 1 ranking, is being over looked.  They are a fun team to watch.  MU has a hell of a game when G'town and Gameday come to town.  I hope MU wins that. It is a great lasting impression on the selection committee.  I hope James gets healthy.  That was a horrible foul by Seton Hall.  No matter how arrogant he is, he never deserved that.  Also, it would be a shame if MU did not play the rest of their season at full strength.  Then we will never know how good they could have been.  Tn is my alma mater, I will always bleed orange.  This does not make me any less of an MU fan.  I  grew up going to their games and I will always support them.  Ironically it looks like MU will be coming down to TN next year, this will be a good game, especially since Lofton is gone from UT and Mbakwe comes in for MU.  I will root for TN knowing that no matter the outcome I really can't lose.  Good Luck to MU always.  But as the song goes, Rocky Top youll always be home sweet home to me...  GO VOLS!!!!!!!

[IAmMarquette]

MUVOL - what's your connection to MU?

This does not make me any less of an MU fan.  I  grew up going to their games and I will always support them.

Nevermind. Answered my own question.

[deerchaser]

Ironically it looks like MU will be coming down to TN next year, this will be a good game, especially since Lofton is gone from UT and Mbakwe comes in for MU.

There seem to be numerous hints at this situation.  What does everyone else seem to know and how do they know it.  This is the very first I've heard mention of this situation and frankly, it seems far-fetched based on Crean and Pearl's history here in Milwaukee.

[MarquetteVol]

The game will be part of the Big East/SEC challenge and the information was released back in November.

[NavinRJohnson]

The stats have shown that MU is not as good as TN this year (even with the loss to UK). 

Which makes the entire exchange as well as your presence here very odd. Nobody ever said they were. You are he one who brought up UT and the Great Bruce Pearl, dude. You said MU is average, etc., so please don't turn this into a case of you merely defending UT. You're the one who came here (after a loss ironically enough) to espouse the virtues of Tennessee basketball.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The stats have shown that MU is not as good as TN this year (even with the loss to UK). 

Which makes the entire exchange as well as your presence here very odd. Nobody ever said they were. You are he one who brought up UT and the Great Bruce Pearl, dude. You said MU is average, etc., so please don't turn this into a case of you merely defending UT. You're the one who came here (after a loss ironically enough) to espouse the virtues of Tennessee basketball.

I completely agree with you Navin.

I don't know how this turned into UT vs MU.

Previously, I was responding to the idea that MU was "average", when they are clearly not average... and now it's twisted into this.

Also, here is the most telling quote of the whole thread:

"I won't be mad.  You can all harass me for that, but I will say good for MU.  They exceeded my opinion of them.  I just don't see them as a very good team this year.  They have proved to me nothing (yet). The rest of the season should be fun. "

MUVOL06... I don't think anybody has a problem with you stating an opinion and using some evidence to project that MU might not be as good as the numbers. To be honest, your perspective probably isn't far off.

BUT, please don't act like its factual that that MU "isn't a good team" as previously stated. That's just not accurate. The facts (RPI, POM, Polls, etc.) show MU is having a pretty good season. 

MU isn't suddenly a bad team after a couple of bad road losses.

UT isn't suddenly a average team after 1 bad road loss.

Conversely, if MU wins 4 or 5 in a row, I'm not going to be calling them "great".

Let's keep some perspective here.

The season is 25+ games. A loss here and there is going to happen (especially in Jan./Feb) and it doesn't necessarily mean that "X team is suddenly bad". It just means they got beat (in MU's case they got beat by a lot)

This isn't college football. 1 loss doesn't mean the season is down the tubes. This is hoops. It's a long season and even the elite teams are going to drop 3-5 games. The very good teams will drop 5-8 games.

[LovinCrowder]

The stats have shown that MU is not as good as TN this year (even with the loss to UK). 

Which makes the entire exchange as well as your presence here very odd. Nobody ever said they were. You are he one who brought up UT and the Great Bruce Pearl, dude. You said MU is average, etc., so please don't turn this into a case of you merely defending UT. You're the one who came here (after a loss ironically enough) to espouse the virtues of Tennessee basketball.

No MUVOL06 was not the one who brought this up.  I was the one that brought them (UT) up in my original post of January 17.   Here it is:


 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please answer this for me:   how can the same team that dominated Notre Dame on Saturday come out and play so horrendous that it would appear that they never played the game of basketball before???   I don't know if anyone else did this but I found myself flipping between this game and the Tennessee?Vanderbilt game on ESPN.  Marquette needs a player the size of Wayne Chism and a shooter like Chris Lofton.   While Tennessee came out flat in the beginning, as Marquette did, they at least found their tempo and proceeded to go on to another impressive win.  You have to hand it to Pearl - he plays a run and gun type of game; he is getting great recruits and he's a motivator - and he's only in this third year there. 

The bottom line is where are Marquette's shooters??  All a team has to do is go to a zone because they know Marquette can't shoot....

Very disappointing loss..... I expected a much better showing than this.





I don't know who MUVOL06 is but, again, I made the statement in another post that you can like and root for more than one basketball team.  You mean to tell me that all the posters here only love Marquette and no other teams????   You mean to tell me that you can't have ties to Wisconsin and another state's team??   I think not.......