Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo

[Goose]

Meltdown? If this is a meltdown, Wojo has a job for life.

[WhiteTrash]

I don't know what you are saying here. Yes, Wojo is signed through the 2021-22 season, I wasn't kidding. But then you say we all know about the original extension. The original extension was to the 21-22 season.

I'm saying the original extension was what, 4 years ago? MU was buying in on Wojo then and giving him the security to build a program and recruit at the highest level. Recruits had a high level of confidence that Wojo was going to be their coach while at MU. That is no longer the case and Wojo has to earn the extension.

It would be foolhardy for MU to have a coach with only a couple of years left on his contract lead the program. The negative recruiting against MU would make the coach's job impossible. MU is approaching the decision time with Wojo quickly.

[muguru]

I have stated my expectations for this year and next year.  Wojo should not, unless this year turns into an absolute disaster, be fired after this year.

Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.

[4everwarriors]

This ain't no UW-Whitewater we're talkin' 'bout. Dis is high steaks D-1 bb. Rock chalk Warhawks, aina?

[GGGG]

Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.

I would say not making the tournament would be a disaster given the expectations.  But I doubt he would be fired under that circumstance.

[goldeneagle91114]

Lets go full circle:
1. Crean coaches at MU
2. Crean leaves MU for IU
3. Crean recruits players to IU
4. Crean gets Fired from IU
5. Some of Creans recruits beat MU
6. Only option = re-hire crean, recruit players and go back and beat IU.

[brewcity77]

Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.

I would define disaster as missing the tournament. If they get in as a low seed, it's a disappointment but not a disaster. You never know what can happen from a lower seed, look at K-State last year, Loyola, VCU, etc. If they do miss the tournament this year, however, I do think it's worth considering a change. This is the team we've been building toward for five years. Scholarships are full, we have a mix of experience and talent, barring injury or mass transfers we should be able to at a minimum get in. If it can't at least get to the NCAAs, then why would there be a reasonable expectation of this working out significantly better in the long term?

I suspect Wojo will get next year regardless, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he deserves 2019-20 if he can't make the Tournament in 2019 with a full complement of players.

[GGGG]

I would define disaster as missing the tournament. If they get in as a low seed, it's a disappointment but not a disaster. You never know what can happen from a lower seed, look at K-State last year, Loyola, VCU, etc. If they do miss the tournament this year, however, I do think it's worth considering a change. This is the team we've been building toward for five years. Scholarships are full, we have a mix of experience and talent, barring injury or mass transfers we should be able to at a minimum get in. If it can't at least get to the NCAAs, then why would there be a reasonable expectation of this working out significantly better in the long term?

I suspect Wojo will get next year regardless, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe he deserves 2019-20 if he can't make the Tournament in 2019 with a full complement of players.

Bingo.  And I'm not even giving the "full complement of players" caveat. 

[goldeneagle91114]

Bingo.  And I'm not even giving the "full complement of players" caveat.

Couldn't agree more.

[Big Papi]

I don't think Wojo is a good coach.  He is mediocre at best.  The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent.  For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada.  Its always been an excuse.  When does it end?

Yes, this is game number 3 of the season and teams lose and get blown out every once in awhile.  This is probably a closer game if we made our free throws, we shot better from 3, Howard wasn't a turnover machine at the start of the game and didn't chuck stupid shots at stupid times.  You can blame bad shooting, a tough road environment or you can lay some blame on Wojo.  It was obvious from Archie's presser that they were not going to let Howard beat them.  And very obvious when they were throwing multiple defenders on him whenever he put the ball on the floor.  Why did Wojo allow that to happen?  That is bad coaching.  I hope to God this is a one off bad game but past experiences makes me think this is not an outlier.  We have a tough schedule coming up:

Kansas
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo


We will know within the next month what kind of team and season we are going to have.  The good news is that the Big East is not looking good so even if we lose 4 out of 5 from the list above, we should still be able to contend for a top 3 Big East finish but we better not lose 4 out of 5 above and 5 out of 6 against tough non-conference competition. 

[Goose]

mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.

[cheebs09]

mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.

I don't know. He's going to be measured on whether we make the tournament or not. Not Big East standing. A bad Big East makes it more difficult to do that. Especially, if it's a slow start in the non-conference and we need resume wins.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't think Wojo is a good coach.  He is mediocre at best.  The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent.  For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada.  Its always been an excuse.  When does it end?

Just to clarify, tHe "Wojo backers" that I have seen have pretty universally said wait till year five.  Not wait until next year. So it ends this year.

You do make a good point about Archie and stopping Howard. It was very clear that was the plan and our early response seemed to be let Markus power through it. He might have fallen into the same trap I did,  no way some barely top 100 true freshman can stop Howard. That was a bad assumption. When the plan is to limit Howard, he needs to be looking for others more. He did have two good passing games in the cupcake games. Let's hope this lesson sticks

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

mufanatic
No doubt that BE being way down is the silver lining for Wojo and his supporters.

I don't give a rats arse about where we finish in the Big East. I care about where we get seeded in March

[Its DJOver]

I don't think Wojo is a good coach.  He is mediocre at best.  The way he is going to win is by bringing in high end talent.  For the last 4 years, I have been reading posts from Wojo backers wearing blue and gold colored glasses, wait until next year when its his roster, more experience, better talent, more height, better skills, more athleticism.....yada, yada, yada.  Its always been an excuse.  When does it end?

Yes, this is game number 3 of the season and teams lose and get blown out every once in awhile.  This is probably a closer game if we made our free throws, we shot better from 3, Howard wasn't a turnover machine at the start of the game and didn't chuck stupid shots at stupid times.  You can blame bad shooting, a tough road environment or you can lay some blame on Wojo.  It was obvious from Archie's presser that they were not going to let Howard beat them.  And very obvious when they were throwing multiple defenders on him whenever he put the ball on the floor.  Why did Wojo allow that to happen?  That is bad coaching.  I hope to God this is a one off bad game but past experiences makes me think this is not an outlier.  We have a tough schedule coming up:

Kansas
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo


We will know within the next month what kind of team and season we are going to have.  The good news is that the Big East is not looking good so even if we lose 4 out of 5 from the list above, we should still be able to contend for a top 3 Big East finish but we better not lose 4 out of 5 above and 5 out of 6 against tough non-conference competition.

Right now, Archie is a better coach that Wojo, but it's not like the bolded is some revolutionary game plan.  Wojo should have been better prepared, and Wojo will likely see others coaches implement the same strategy.  It was occasionally attempted last year, but not as frequently with 3 lights out shooters, one of which was a good distributor as well.  Markus' passing and vision either need to improve (which isn't going to happen overnight), or Wojo needs to develop a counter to this.  We will see other teams try to do this, and what adjustments Wojo can make to it, and their effectiveness will be a large factor in our offensive potency this season.

[muguru]

Right now, Archie is a better coach that Wojo, but it's not like the bolded is some revolutionary game plan.  Wojo should have been better prepared, and Wojo will likely see others coaches implement the same strategy.  It was occasionally attempted last year, but not as frequently with 3 lights out shooters, one of which was a good distributor as well.  Markus' passing and vision either need to improve (which isn't going to happen overnight), or Wojo needs to develop a counter to this.  We will see other teams try to do this, and what adjustments Wojo can make to it, and their effectiveness will be a large factor in our offensive potency this season.

The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.

[Goose]

TAMU
Love your doubling down on March seeding today. Hat's off to your optimism and support of the program.

[GGGG]

The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.

I'd go JC, Markus, Sam, Jamal and Joey.

[Its DJOver]

The adjustment is simple really...start Chartouney, and give him the ball handling responsibilities..that's what he's there for anyway. He sees the court very well, he takes care of the ball, and he's a lock down defender..any offense he brings is gravy. Sacar has been invisible anyway, he can come off the bench. Bailey needs to come off the bench as well..I start either Morrow or Joey. Just those two changes COULD(with Chartouney it would), make a world of difference.

I don't think it's that simple.  If JC's offensive struggles continue, teams will be able to severely sag off of him to send help at Markus/Sam.  Ball movement in general needs to be both faster and more accurate, and I actually think giving more minutes to Jamal could help too.  Won't ever be as good offensively as AR was, but can hit the three at a respectable clip, and his first step is as fast as anyone's.  Throw up a pump fake, drive, and either finish or get the ball moving again.

[4everwarriors]

I don't give a rats arse about where we finish in the Big East. I care about where we get seeded in March

Dat mae bee in front of da TV watchin' da udders, hey?

[Otule's Glass Eye]

The thing that irritates me is that Indiana told Wojo and everyone else how he was going to beat them, limit Markus, and then they did just that. Not sure if Wojo didn't prepare at all and use Sam or someone else as another main option (Joey proved himself), or if he genuinely doesn't believe that anyone else can take that responsibility and use Markus to get other guys open rather than putting up contested jumper after jumper. By all indications it doesn't seem like Wojo tells Markus not to take those shots and look to distribute. Sam and Joey couldn't miss at points.

[GGGG]

The thing that irritates me is that Indiana told Wojo and everyone else how he was going to beat them, limit Markus, and then they did just that. Not sure if Wojo didn't prepare at all and use Sam or someone else as another main option (Joey proved himself), or if he genuinely doesn't believe that anyone else can take that responsibility and use Markus to get other guys open rather than putting up contested jumper after jumper. By all indications it doesn't seem like Wojo tells Markus not to take those shots and look to distribute. Sam and Joey couldn't miss at points.

I mean, you don't really tell your best shooter not to take shots.  You tell him to use better judgement.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I mean, you don't really tell your best shooter not to take shots.  You tell him to use better judgement.

Markus can and will carry the team offensively but he killed rallies with his unnecessary shots and the judgment didn't seem to get better as the game went on

[skianth16]

Scoop has a meltdown all the time.  We're the toddler of message boards.

Don't ever go to an SEC football board then. Those fans expect to win, and when their teams don't win, or even don't win by enough, the boards are just like ours, if not worse.

I think fans expecting to win is normal. The most active voices here are the most patient, but that's not necessarily representative of the full fan base.

[skianth16]

Just to clarify, tHe "Wojo backers" that I have seen have pretty universally said wait till year five.  Not wait until next year. So it ends this year.

I seem to remember a lot of talk about Year 4 when he'd have a full roster of his guys too, though.