Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo

[GGGG]

I think you undervalue. We're fans. We're the revenue. The #FireKidd movement started on a message board just like this and took to Twitter. We may not be everything but we're not nothing.

I think you are vastly overrating the impact the "movement" had on the decision to fire Kidd.

And no, Wojo shouldn't be fired.

[4everwarriors]

I've seen enough to judge. Wojo ain't got it.

[Charlotte Warrior]

While I accept your overall point of MU not stepping up and distinguishing who they are (or should be) against IU, the bolded part is incorrect. Greg Elliott is out, and his quickness was missing in this game.

Now thats funny

[1SE]

Uggh Phinisee, a 5-11 true freshman playing his third ever game, had as many assists as our entire team...

A 4-star rated roughly around #100... How many of our current roster was evaluated at or better than that?

Why didn't "inexperience" stop him from dishing out 8 dimes?

[MUBigDance]

Here are some observations others have said already. But my keys:

Their coach better prepared than ours.

Markus is a bad PG. They knew it. Prepped for it. Told us beforehand. And did it. On Wojo.

Not ready for stiff competition. They weren't Michigan good but Jay's team wasn't ready either.

We have a lot of new faces trying to work it out. Easy to mask against cupcakes. On Wojo to figure out.

We have to get better fast before our quality win potential dwindles. BE won't have many this year. We could easily have 6 losses at end of noncon if Wojo doesn't get things together.

We have talent. Wojo needs to get us together sooner rather than later.

[WhiteTrash]

MUScoop opinions aside; MU has not offered an extension to Wojo for a reason. Like it or hate it, it is a fact.

[i71_dawg]

Before the season, most predictions had MUBB with 1, 2, or at most 3 losses in the non-conference part of the schedule.  If things don't get fixed (and fast), the following games will or could all be losses:

Kansas (obviously a loss)
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo

So, 5 weeks from now (on Dec 22), we could be staring straight at a 6-6 record.  There's no way this team with these players should be anywhere near that kind of record to start the year.

That's 100% on Wojo.  He admitted as much last night after the game.  The coaches aren't doing their jobs and don't have these guys ready to compete right now against top 50 teams.

.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

MUScoop opinions aside; MU has not offered an extension to Wojo for a reason. Like it or hate it, it is a fact.

Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.

[Floorslapper]

Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.

Was that the amateur hour extension Lovell offered after we won the Pre-Season NIT (that resulted in us missing the post-season NIT), coming off Wojo's inaugural 4-14 Big East campaign, at a point in which Wojo still had 4 more years left on the original contract?

[MUBigDance]

Before the season, most predictions had MUBB with 1, 2, or at most 3 losses in the non-conference part of the schedule.  If things don't get fixed (and fast), the following games will or could all be losses:

Kansas (obviously a loss)
Louisville
Kansas State
Wisconsin
Buffalo

So, 5 weeks from now (on Dec 22), we could be staring straight at a 6-6 record.  There's no way this team with these players should be anywhere near that kind of record to start the year.

That's 100% on Wojo.  He admitted as much last night after the game.  The coaches aren't doing their jobs and don't have these guys ready to compete right now against top 50 teams.

.

I'm concerned about the 6-6 also. Buffalo and UW are looking good.
But it hasn't happened yet. Its a test of Wojo to get his team prepared before we get there. UW at home and Buffalo should still be wins. Maybe Louisville if we see them. Its on Wojo IF we hit 6-6...not a done deal yet.

I also have the thought that "One point does not define a vector" ... we had 1 bad loss ... I need to wait on judgement until we have another bad data-point. Losing to Kansas for example, is not a bad loss...but losing by 30 would be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Was that the amateur hour extension Lovell offered after we won the Pre-Season NIT (that resulted in us missing the post-season NIT), coming off Wojo's inaugural 4-14 Big East campaign, at a point in which Wojo still had 4 more years left on the original contract?

You can like it or hate it. In this case I was just correcting misinformation

[muguru]

I think you are vastly overrating the impact the "movement" had on the decision to fire Kidd.

And no, Wojo shouldn't be fired.

So just keep wallowing in mediocrity for the forseeable future?? Cool story Sultan. You yourself have said you expect a top 3 BE finish, and high NCAA tourney seed, short of that, will you THEN finally start to see what some of us have seen awhile ago?? He'd need to go...period.

[goldeneagle91114]

Alot of people have talked about how wojo wanted to build the program for sustained success (i.e. not the Juco route). However, after seeing Archie' team last night, I'm starting to believe that wojo isn't building anything. Archie doesn't have a roster full of jucos, his team is young. yet 2 years in the team looks like its going to complete.

Wojo's had 5 and we look like a mid-major.

[MarqKarp]

Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.

Does this mean that after this season that Wojo will either be fired or given an extension?   What decent player will want to commit to a coach who is only under contract through his sophomore year?

[GGGG]

So just keep wallowing in mediocrity for the forseeable future?? Cool story Sultan. You yourself have said you expect a top 3 BE finish, and high NCAA tourney seed, short of that, will you THEN finally start to see what some of us have seen awhile ago?? He'd need to go...period.

I have stated my expectations for this year and next year.  Wojo should not, unless this year turns into an absolute disaster, be fired after this year.

[WhiteTrash]

Actually Wojo has already received his first extension. He's signed through the 21-22 season.

Seriously? I hope you are kidding. We all know about the original extension. If MU was sold on Wojo he would have been extended already. MU has put him in a position to be recruiting kids that don't know if he will be their coach for their 4 years at MU. I don't disagree with MU's position, he has not earned an extension but it is being used against him in recruiting.

[GGGG]

Does this mean that after this season that Wojo will either be fired or given an extension?   What decent player will want to commit to a coach who is only under contract through his sophomore year?

He might be given an extension.  Let's see how the season plays out.

Why does Scoop act like a bunch of ninnies after the first big loss every single year?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Alot of people have talked about how wojo wanted to build the program for sustained success (i.e. not the Juco route). However, after seeing Archie' team last night, I'm starting to believe that wojo isn't building anything. Archie doesn't have a roster full of jucos, his team is young. yet 2 years in the team looks like its going to complete.

Wojo's had 5 and we look like a mid-major.

Archie does appear to be a hell of a coach. Let's also remember that he inherited Juwan Morgan, the #1 player in value add this season. That can help a team reload really quickly as does landing a kid like Langford. The the one that impressed me the most is Phinesee, barely a 4-star but played like veteran. Archie found a good one there.

All that being said, I would have no qualms with anyone who said Archie is a better coach than Wojo. All the evidence certainly indicates that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Seriously? I hope you are kidding. We all know about the original extension.

I don't know what you are saying here. Yes, Wojo is signed through the 2021-22 season, I wasn't kidding. But then you say we all know about the original extension. The original extension was to the 21-22 season.

[MarqKarp]

He might be given an extension.  Let's see how the season plays out.

Why does Scoop act like a bunch of ninnies after the first big loss every single year?

My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?

[Its DJOver]

My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?

You are correct, but (serious question) how often to coaches actually see an entire contract through?  Seems like there is a lot of leaving early/firing, so it would all be dependent on what his buyout is.

[GGGG]

My point is, doing nothing after this season is not an option, there will either have to be an extension or a parting of the ways, or is my logic flawed?

There's giving him an extension...and GIVING HIM AN EXTENSION!!!

Put it this way, if it is a year or two, that won't stand in the way of firing him after next year.  If it is a five year extension, that's something else entirely.

[MUBBau]

You're telling me a guy with more coaching experience at a blue blood school is better than our coach?!?

[MarqKarp]

There's giving him an extension...and GIVING HIM AN EXTENSION!!!

Put it this way, if it is a year or two, that won't stand in the way of firing him after next year.  If it is a five year extension, that's something else entirely.

That is true.  I did not think about it that way.  However, unless we are in the final four, even giving him a 2 year extension will cause some of Scoop to have a complete meltdown.   

[GGGG]

That is true.  I did not think about it that way.  However, unless we are in the final four, even giving him a 2 year extension will cause some of Scoop to have a complete meltdown.   

Scoop has a meltdown all the time.  We're the toddler of message boards.