Record Enrollment but Freshman Rention Rate Declines

[jsglow]

It's the lowest by nearly a full percent.

http://www.marquette.edu/oira/rate-dash.shtml

Playing around with that graph is interesting.  Under "Cohort Rates" you can isolate the problem.  It looks as though they are having issues with underepresented minorities, particularly males.  The black, hispanic and more than one race categories are well below historic averages. 

Then if you look at this graph under "Undergraduate Students," you will see that the number of "Students of Color" went up as well - by 5% over five years.  Particularly focused on Hispanic students.

http://www.marquette.edu/oira/composition-dash.shtml

And then you go back to this announcement, and I think we may have a greater understanding of the underlying issues at play.

http://www.marquette.edu/diversity/hispanic-serving-institution-initiative.php

In narrowing the data down, it looks as though Marquette brought in 330 Hispanic freshmen in Fall 2017, which is a 75% increase over that four year span.  However they only retained 84% of those 330 whereas they retained 89% of the 188 Hispanic freshmen in 2014.

I wonder if they realized this issue by bringing in 310 Hispanic freshmen this year.  Maybe the program grew too far, too fast and they didn't have the infrastructure to handle it.

Good empirical work there Sultan.  Next time I'm in a position to ask, I'll try.

[GGGG]

Thank you glow.  It's a top-of-mind subject.  We talk about retention rates all of the time.

OTOH, we never talk about acceptance rates.  Not even on our radar.

[Dr. Blackheart]

1850 was less than 10% 1890 was high water mark at 14.8% according to the gov't. 

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdf

Yikes.  I need new glasses although it was truncated in the presentation I was reading.  Benjamin Harrison was Prez.  Pretty incredible.

[PBRme]

Probably because IL switched from ACT to SAT a couple of years ago so they need to make up that loss which was a big one.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-chooses-sat-met-20160211-story.html

That alone could account for the record ACT scores

[4everwarriors]

I have no reason to believe that the retention issue (if there's an issue at all) has anything at all to do with academics.  The quality of the incoming class over the past 5-10 years has been stellar.  As Sultan said, it's a fit thing.

I've told you guys before.  Half of you clowns that graduated 'back in the day' would have zero chance at getting admitted today.  In fact I'd personally make sure of that with a VETO for some of you!

Willin' ta bet huge somes eye'd make da kut, hey?

[SaveOD238]

I have no reason to believe that the retention issue (if there's an issue at all) has anything at all to do with academics.  The quality of the incoming class over the past 5-10 years has been stellar.  As Sultan said, it's a fit thing.

I've told you guys before.  Half of you clowns that graduated 'back in the day' would have zero chance at getting admitted today.  In fact I'd personally make sure of that with a VETO for some of you!

Every year there will be kids who flunk out or who can't cut it academically for whatever reason.  But I agree with you that most of the retention rate is probably due to fit.

Case in point, we sent three very academically gifted seniors from where I teach to Marquette last fall.  Around October, I heard through the rumor mill (other students and little siblings) that all three were considering transferring to Madison.  Based on the story I heard, it was because the three of them roomed together and did little to get out and meet people.  They went to Madison for a weekend and their friends took them to a party.  So, to them, Marquette seemed "boring."  For whatever reason, (and I'd argue it was mostly their fault), Marquette didn't seem to be a fit for them.

Happy Ending: At least two of the three decided not to transfer.  I'm not sure about the third.

On the OTHER hand, I have run into another ex-student, now a senior, twice on campus in the last month.  I wasn't convinced he would make it academically, but he is succeeding, seems really happy, and has an awesome internship.  Fit and experience matters.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Similar for me.

Where did ya go to grad school, kin?

[Herman Cain]

Solid reporting from the MU Wire below.

https://marquettewire.org/3998227/news/record-breaking-enrollment-numbers-in-class-of-2022/

Key Takeaways:

Record freshmen enrollment for class of 2022

The first to second year retention rate is down to 87 percent for students admitted in 2017. This is a decline from 89.3% in 2016 and represents the lowest percentage in available data, which starts with 2004.

On the flip side, The four-year graduation rate for the class of 2014 was 67 percent, a Marquette record.  The six-year graduation rate for students who began in 2012 is 85 percent, another record but both positive ones!

I know the majority of fellow scoopers think I and other east coasters make a much bigger deal out of MU's high acceptance rate than we should, and I was very pleased that MU's 2019 USNR ranking didn't decline because of it, and actually went up a point, vindicating Sultan's POV on this issue.

That said, the fact that the lowest first to second year retention rate all the years they've been tracking that data coincided with a Fall 2017 acceptance of 89% isn't surprising in the least.  I didn't think a 2.3% decline was that big of a deal when I first read this until I read the next sentence which said it was the lowest figure in all the year's they've been keeping track since 2004.  That really hit home.

At the same , the four-year graduation rate for the class of 2014 was 67 percent and the six-year graduation rate for students who began in 2012 was 85 percent.....both records in a positive sense that coincided with acceptance rates of 57% for Fall 2012, and 64% for Fall 2014.

Thoughts?

This supports everything I have been saying. MU is chasing diversity for diversity sake and slowly reducing its reputation. These kids leave because they can't do the work. period.

Here is the reality,all the good minority kids go to higher rated schools. If a kid has a choice of MU or Georgetown where do you think he or she is going to go. It is just a fact of life, which is why I say up the standards and make it harder to get in. Then if you really want minorities you will actually get some good ones. 

My kids where good athletes and good students and because of their race had literally their choice of any school. It was that way for their similarly situated friends.   

MU has the horsepower to upgrade it just needs to understand that there are other schools better situated to help the weaker students. Go with strength and you will always be better off.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is a self fulfilling prophecy.

[reinko]

This supports everything I have been saying. MU is chasing diversity for diversity sake and slowly reducing its reputation. These kids leave because they can't do the work. period.

Here is the reality,all the good minority kids go to higher rated schools. If a kid has a choice of MU or Georgetown where do you think he or she is going to go. It is just a fact of life, which is why I say up the standards and make it harder to get in. Then if you really want minorities you will actually get some good ones. 

My kids where good athletes and good students and because of their race had literally their choice of any school. It was that way for their similarly situated friends.   

MU has the horsepower to upgrade it just needs to understand that there are other schools better situated to help the weaker students. Go with strength and you will always be better off.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is a self fulfilling prophecy.

See y’all, it’s that easy.  MU just has to more than triple it’s endowment to 1.7 billion, turn our law school into one that is ranked top 10 in the country, and move the university to a city that is dead center in one of the most politically powerful neighborhoods in the world.  And the solution, admit less Black and Latino kids.

[GGGG]

Yeah Herman really doesn't understand Marquette's mission.

[Herman Cain]

Yeah Herman really doesn't understand Marquette's mission.

Marquette stopped being part of that mission many years ago. It is a high end expensive private university that caters to top 20 percent kids from wealth suburbs and needs to behave like one and be proud of it.

Other schools serve that mission much better at lower cost to everyone. There is a cost to people who have paid a lot of money to have their hard earned degrees debased.

[GGGG]

Marquette stopped being part of that mission many years ago. It is a high end expensive private university that caters to top 20 percent kids from wealth suburbs and needs to behave like one and be proud of it.

Tell that to the Jesuits.

Other schools serve that mission much better at lower cost to everyone. There is a cost to people who have paid a lot of money to have their hard earned degrees debased.

That's just a load of horsesh*t right there.  If anyone views that their degree is being "debased" then the problem is actually staring at them in the mirror

[jsglow]

Yeah Herman really doesn't understand Marquette's mission.

I'm not up for the argument with Herman.  It just really saddens me to read what he wrote.

[warriorchick]

I'm not up for the argument with Herman.  It just really saddens me to read what he wrote because it's complete bullish!t

FIFY

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not up for the argument with Herman.  It just really saddens me to read what he wrote.

This, sometimes I feel the need to shower after reading his comments because I feel gross for trying to give a fair moment of thought to what he's saying.

[WarriorDad]

Speaking of ACT results, this came out yesterday.  Math readiness in this country at a 14 year low, continues the decline started in 2012. 

http://leadershipblog.act.org/2018/10/math-readiness-drops-to-14-year-low.html

[SaveOD238]

This supports everything I have been saying. MU is chasing diversity for diversity sake and slowly reducing its reputation. These kids leave because they can't do the work. period.

Here is the reality,all the good minority kids go to higher rated schools. If a kid has a choice of MU or Georgetown where do you think he or she is going to go. It is just a fact of life, which is why I say up the standards and make it harder to get in. Then if you really want minorities you will actually get some good ones. 

My kids where good athletes and good students and because of their race had literally their choice of any school. It was that way for their similarly situated friends.   

MU has the horsepower to upgrade it just needs to understand that there are other schools better situated to help the weaker students. Go with strength and you will always be better off.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Let me first say that the majority of what Herman says here is complete crap.  I do not think MU is suffering because it is chasing diversity, and I don't think racial and ethnic diversity on campus has anything to do with retention rates, unless you're thinking of how students of color might feel out of place at a pretty white school.  In fact, I think chasing diversity is a sound business strategy for a school looking to succeed not just because of the cultural good will it provides but because having a diverse organization (school, business, etc) creates better outcomes. 

However, that bolded line is absolutely 100% right on.  If we as a society hold students to low expectations, they will only rise to meet those low expectations.  In my experience as an educator I've learned that the secret to teaching disadvantaged students is to treat them like they can succeed and succeed at a high level (because they can).  They will rise to the occasion if a culture of achievement is created.

[GGGG]

Let me first say that the majority of what Herman says here is complete crap.  I do not think MU is suffering because it is chasing diversity, and I don't think racial and ethnic diversity on campus has anything to do with retention rates, unless you're thinking of how students of color might feel out of place at a pretty white school.  In fact, I think chasing diversity is a sound business strategy for a school looking to succeed not just because of the cultural good will it provides but because having a diverse organization (school, business, etc) creates better outcomes. 

However, that bolded line is absolutely 100% right on.  If we as a society hold students to low expectations, they will only rise to meet those low expectations.  In my experience as an educator I've learned that the secret to teaching disadvantaged students is to treat them like they can succeed and succeed at a high level (because they can).  They will rise to the occasion if a culture of achievement is created.

Yeah but I would argue Marquette is doing the exact opposite.  They are treating them like they can succeed at a high level despite the disadvantages they had trying up.

[tower912]

Hopefully, future graduates can spell 'retention', not 'rention'.

[jsglow]

Yeah but I would argue Marquette is doing the exact opposite.  They are treating them like they can succeed at a high level despite the disadvantages they had trying up.

This is exactly right.  I am close friends with several guys who were EOP back in the day and remain active sponsors of the program.  There is no room on campus for lowered expectations for anyone.  Not one iota.  Now is their additional support mostly in the realm of 'adjustment' and 'study skills'?  Yep.  But the academic standard is unwavering, as it should be. 

[GGGG]

This is exactly right.  I am close friends with several guys who were EOP back in the day and remain active sponsors of the program.  There is no room on campus for lowered expectations for anyone.  Not one iota.  Now is their additional support mostly in the realm of 'adjustment' and 'study skills'?  Yep.  But the academic standard is unwavering, as it should be. 

And my guess is that such support is open to the entire student body, but it is simply pushed more to that audience. 

[SaveOD238]

Yeah but I would argue Marquette is doing the exact opposite.  They are treating them like they can succeed at a high level despite the disadvantages they had trying up.

Good.

[jesmu84]

Yeah Herman really doesn't understand Marquette's mission.

Is Herman even an alum?

[warriorchick]

Is Herman even an alum?

He has been directly asked that question on multiple occasions and has ignored it.  It's safe to assume that he is not.

[4everwarriors]

Ta bee fare, it don't matta. Wee all just bee people, hey?