Jimmy Butler

[GGGG]

I agree with Galway. A woman isn’t property. If she’s cheating it’s as much in her as anyone. Jimmy didn’t “steal” her.

[frozena pizza]

I love Jimmy’s competitive fire and work ethic and loved him at MU.  Hope all this lights a fire under the Wolves.  But anyone who says he is not a prima donna and only wants to win is kidding themselves.  He whined his way out of Chicago and is doing the same thing in Minnesota, using the same “no is committed to winning” like I am.  Seriously?  You got reunited with the coach that made you a superstar and have a team that is at least the 5th best in the western conference right now.  So you demand a trade to the Knicks, Nets, or Clippers?  None of those teams even made the playoffs last year and would be even worse off giving up major pieces to land Butler.  What you really want is fame and attention, which was proven by your antics in practice yesterday.  And by the way, Wiggins and Towns are still under 24 years old and have very bright futures.  I get that Wiggins struggles to maintain intensity and Towns has defensive lapses.  But Towns in particular is already a star, has shown plenty of competitive fire, and took a secondary role to Jimmy without complaint when in many cases he probably should have gotten the ball more.  I’m so sick of this guy and his massive ego.

[tower912]

Saying the guy made a bad move or was being a jerk isn't turning on him. And if Jimmy had screamed at Buzz or other members of the staff the way he did with Tibs yesterday, I think many MU fans would have had a different impression of him then as well. If he called his college teammates out on Twitter or in interviews, many MU fans would have said it was a bad look or a selfish thing to do.

Just having worn the blue and gold doesn't make someone a saint. You can like a guy and want him to succeed but still be disappointed or frustrated with the way he carries himself at times. I can't believe this needs to be explained.

I agree that wearing blue and gold doesn't make one a saint.    I disagree that Butler made a bad move yesterday.     And if Crowder's tweet is to be believed, there WERE practices with that kind of intensity at MU.    Yelling obscenities at Buzz?    Probably not, as he was a young man and loved Buzz.     Bringing that kind of passion to the NBA may be a virtue.   Thibs is outwardly supporting Jimmy.   Thibs wants that level of passion, leadership, and defensive intensity. 

[Its DJOver]

I love Jimmy’s competitive fire and work ethic and loved him at MU.  Hope all this lights a fire under the Wolves.  But anyone who says he is not a prima donna and only wants to win is kidding themselves.  He whined his way out of Chicago and is doing the same thing in Minnesota, using the same “no is committed to winning” like I am.  Seriously?  You got reunited with the coach that made you a superstar and have a team that is at least the 5th best in the western conference right now.  So you demand a trade to the Knicks, Nets, or Clippers?  None of those teams even made the playoffs last year and would be even worse off giving up major pieces to land Butler.  What you really want is fame and attention, which was proven by your antics in practice yesterday.  And by the way, Wiggins and Towns are still under 24 years old and have very bright futures.  I get that Wiggins struggles to maintain intensity and Towns has defensive lapses.  But Towns in particular is already a star, has shown plenty of competitive fire, and took a secondary role to Jimmy without complaint when in many cases he probably should have gotten the ball more.  I’m so sick of this guy and his massive ego.

Knicks, Nets, and Clips all have enough cap space for Jimmy and another superstar.  Jimmy supposedly wants to team up with Kyrie in New York.  That team would be an immediate contender in the East.  Winning absolutely still matters.  You admit that Wiggins struggles, what kind of message do you think Jimmy is receiving when Wiggins is getting 7 mil more a year than Jimmy?  Go to a better market and team up with a player better than both KAT and Wiggins, and get paid more doing so.  No brainer.

[Its DJOver]

I agree that wearing blue and gold doesn't make one a saint.    I disagree that Butler made a bad move yesterday.     And if Crowder's tweet is to be believed, there WERE practices with that kind of intensity at MU.    Yelling obscenities at Buzz?    Probably not, as he was a young man and loved Buzz.     Bringing that kind of passion to the NBA may be a virtue.   Thibs is outwardly supporting Jimmy.   Thibs wants that level of passion, leadership, and defensive intensity.

Agree.  Probably never got that heated with Buzz, but there's no doubt in my mind that Jimmy called out Vander or Davante if he thought they weren't giving all they had, and it no doubt made them better players.

[skianth16]

Agree.  Probably never got that heated with Buzz, but there's no doubt in my mind that Jimmy called out Vander or Davante if he thought they weren't giving all they had, and it no doubt made them better players.

The point being, though, that we don't know if he did that or not. Because if he did push them and call them out, he did it in practice or in private, not with Rachel Nichols in front of the cameras. (which was very conveniently scheduled to happen right after his antics in his first practice, only further reinforcing the point that a lot of what he's doing is just seeking the spotlight)

[frozena pizza]

Knicks, Nets, and Clips all have enough cap space for Jimmy and another superstar.  Jimmy supposedly wants to team up with Kyrie in New York.  That team would be an immediate contender in the East.  Winning absolutely still matters.  You admit that Wiggins struggles, what kind of message do you think Jimmy is receiving when Wiggins is getting 7 mil more a year than Jimmy?  Go to a better market and team up with a player better than both KAT and Wiggins, and get paid more doing so.  No brainer.

The season starts in 6 days.  If Butler lands on one of those teams before then it will be a long season.  Also, he has signaled to those teams that they can sign him next summer if they want for $50 million less on a max deal than if they acquire him now.  So it's a no brainer that none of those teams are willing to make a strong offer.  Also there's zero certainty about landing Kyrie or any other star for that matter and doubtful it would be better than a supporting cast of Wiggins, Towns and Teague.  The structure of Wiggins contract versus Jimmy's is more a matter of timing than anything else as the Wolves made Jimmy the biggest offer they could at the time and he understandably turned it down.  There is flat out no better path to a winning team and a max deal than staying in Minnesota, even if the presence of Wiggins and Towns limits their roster flexibility.

[Floorslapper]

I have zero idea why anyone would think what he just apparently did would be viewed as selfish or being a prima donna.  Or frankly why it’s even an pretty boy move. He proved his value. Showed why working hard means something. And he lead by example.

Well said Sultan.  Totally agree. 

[brewcity77]

You admit that Wiggins struggles, what kind of message do you think Jimmy is receiving when Wiggins is getting 7 mil more a year than Jimmy?

In a league like the NBA, this is a nonsense argument. The message is that Wiggins probably signed his deal after Butler signed his. Butler signed in 2015. Wiggins signed in 2017. There's no message, no secret meaning, just the reality that contracts go up annually. You don't like it, sign one-year deals every year.

[wadesworld]

Jimmy can go to NY with Kyrie after this season.  He has a player option.  The way Jimmy is acting, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he picked up the player option and then cried about being in a bad situation all offseason and next season.

Also, I highly doubt there was any sleeping with girlfriends or wives here, but there are people out there that actually believe that someone who knowingly sleeps with a coworker's (or anyone's) wife/girlfriend is not at all at fault?  That only the cheater is at fault?  Yeesh.

In a league like the NBA, this is a nonsense argument. The message is that Wiggins probably signed his deal after Butler signed his. Butler signed in 2015. Wiggins signed in 2017. There's no message, no secret meaning, just the reality that contracts go up annually. You don't like it, sign one-year deals every year.

Yup.

[MUBurrow]

This is the second franchise he's leaving/run out of in two years, and both times, otherwise pretty well respected guys were rolling their eyes on his way out the door. Expressions of righteous indignation are not leadership.  Until he develops any record of raising the level of his teammates play in the NBA, he's a wannabe NBA leader, not an actual leader.

[wadesworld]

This is the second franchise he's leaving/run out of in two years, and both times, otherwise pretty well respected guys were rolling their eyes on his way out the door. Expressions of righteous indignation are not leadership.  Until he develops any record of raising the level of his teammates play in the NBA, he's a wannabe NBA leader, not an actual leader.

Yup.  Again, he's a Kyle Lowry who thinks he's a LeBron James.

[Its DJOver]

The point being, though, that we don't know if he did that or not. Because if he did push them and call them out, he did it in practice or in private, not with Rachel Nichols in front of the cameras. (which was very conveniently scheduled to happen right after his antics in his first practice, only further reinforcing the point that a lot of what he's doing is just seeking the spotlight)

Jimmy gives 100%, 100% off the time.  I don't want him holding back because there's media at the practice.  I want the same intensity on game 1, and game 82. 

http://www.espn.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/12016979/los-angeles-lakers-star-kobe-bryant-critical-teammates-heated-scrimmage

Kobe calling out players in practice and coaches praising him for his intensity.  I don't see a difference other than the level of superstar-dome between the players.  Jimmy felt disrespected by the front office and he's letting them know.  He can't control when the media shows up. 

[GGGG]

This is the second franchise he's leaving/run out of in two years, and both times, otherwise pretty well respected guys were rolling their eyes on his way out the door. Expressions of righteous indignation are not leadership.  Until he develops any record of raising the level of his teammates play in the NBA, he's a wannabe NBA leader, not an actual leader.

So who were these otherwise respected guys rolling their eyes as he left Chicago?

[mu03eng]

I agree with Galway. A woman isn’t property. If she’s cheating it’s as much in her as anyone. Jimmy didn’t “steal” her.

Your Freudian Slip is showing

[mu03eng]

The point being, though, that we don't know if he did that or not. Because if he did push them and call them out, he did it in practice or in private, not with Rachel Nichols in front of the cameras. (which was very conveniently scheduled to happen right after his antics in his first practice, only further reinforcing the point that a lot of what he's doing is just seeking the spotlight)

Seeking the spotlight or using the spotlight to expose problems in his organization?

[Its DJOver]

The season starts in 6 days.  If Butler lands on one of those teams before then it will be a long season.  Also, he has signaled to those teams that they can sign him next summer if they want for $50 million less on a max deal than if they acquire him now.  So it's a no brainer that none of those teams are willing to make a strong offer.  Also there's zero certainty about landing Kyrie or any other star for that matter and doubtful it would be better than a supporting cast of Wiggins, Towns and Teague.  The structure of Wiggins contract versus Jimmy's is more a matter of timing than anything else as the Wolves made Jimmy the biggest offer they could at the time and he understandably turned it down.  There is flat out no better path to a winning team and a max deal than staying in Minnesota, even if the presence of Wiggins and Towns limits their roster flexibility.

Way to shift goalposts.  Going from they didn't even make the playoffs last year to there's no certainty that a he could get another superstar.  It's true that nothing is 100% certain, but if Jimmy wants to team up with Kyrie, and Kyrie wants to team up with Jimmy, and there's a major market that has the cap space to sign them both, there's a good likelihood that it happens.

[MUBurrow]

So who were these otherwise respected guys rolling their eyes as he left Chicago?

Rondo lead the charge. And while he might be a bit of a weird cat, he has a matured a lot since his Celtics days. In fact, that maturation gives him a great frame of reference, and when Wade and JFB went public vs the team, Rondo was the only guy with enough veteran gravitas to publicly push back, and negatively compared Wade & JFB's leadership to Pierce and Garnett.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Why was Jimmy Butler beloved his last two years at Marquette?   Because he competed fearlessly against bigger players, guarded 5 positions on the floor, didn't shy away from the big moments, and was generally the toughest SOB on the floor.    He had that in him then, and Buzz brought it out.   

What has been one of the laments under Wojo?    That these guys aren't as physical, aren't as tough, don't punch above their weight like a Buzz team. 

Butler exhibits the same type of chip-on-the-shoulder, most-extreme-work-ethic attitude in an NBA practice against guys he perceives as soft and some of the MU fandom turns on him?     For bringing the same ethos to an NBA camp that made him a hero at MU?    He's not a prima donna.     He's JFB.    What made him great at MU is what continues to drive him.   

The JFB at MU was humble and hungry.  Hard worker.  He became better than anyone would have expected.  But he has become a primary donna both on and off the court.

[Floorslapper]

This is the second franchise he's leaving/run out of in two years, and both times, otherwise pretty well respected guys were rolling their eyes on his way out the door. Expressions of righteous indignation are not leadership.  Until he develops any record of raising the level of his teammates play in the NBA, he's a wannabe NBA leader, not an actual leader.

Except the Timberwolves were 8-9 without Jimmy last year and 35-27 with him.  Wiggins and KAT are talented, but soft.  None of Jordan, Kobe, or LeBron were angels and "kind" to their teammates.

[MUBurrow]

Jimmy gives 100%, 100% off the time.  I don't want him holding back because there's media at the practice.  I want the same intensity on game 1, and game 82. 

http://www.espn.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/12016979/los-angeles-lakers-star-kobe-bryant-critical-teammates-heated-scrimmage

Kobe calling out players in practice and coaches praising him for his intensity.  I don't see a difference other than the level of superstar-dome between the players.  Jimmy felt disrespected by the front office and he's letting them know.  He can't control when the media shows up.

But the level of superstardom is exactly the point. If you're Kobe or Jordan, you don't need to be a deft leader. You can just do your own thing, and its on everyone else to be the planets that revolve around your sun. That doesn't make those guys good leaders or make their behavior something to emulate. If anything, it speaks to how rare your talent level has to be to act like that and still get results. And JFB aint those guys. So if his goal is to actually make his teams better, and not just pat himself on the back, he's going to have to try something else.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

No.  Leaders don't lead by "having fun and shutting your mouth."  Good lord.

Sultan explains it all.

The Indiana higher education system is lucky to have a leader like you.

[frozena pizza]

Way to shift goalposts.  Going from they didn't even make the playoffs last year to there's no certainty that a he could get another superstar.  It's true that nothing is 100% certain, but if Jimmy wants to team up with Kyrie, and Kyrie wants to team up with Jimmy, and there's a major market that has the cap space to sign them both, there's a good likelihood that it happens.

It's not shifting the goal posts.  You brought up the possibility of joining Kyrie as an alternative source of his motivation and I responded to it directly.

[GGGG]

Rondo lead the charge. And while he might be a bit of a weird cat, he has a matured a lot since his Celtics days. In fact, that maturation gives him a great frame of reference, and when Wade and JFB went public vs the team, Rondo was the only guy with enough veteran gravitas to publicly push back, and negatively compared Wade & JFB's leadership to Pierce and Garnett.

So an over the hill, sh*tty player. Got it.

[Its DJOver]

But the level of superstardom is exactly the point. If you're Kobe or Jordan, you don't need to be a deft leader. You can just do your own thing, and its on everyone else to be the planets that revolve around your sun. That doesn't make those guys good leaders or make their behavior something to emulate. If anything, it speaks to how rare your talent level has to be to act like that and still get results. And JFB aint those guys. So if his goal is to actually make his teams better, and not just pat himself on the back, he's going to have to try something else.

One of the teams most veteran and best players calling out younger players in practice.  It's the same situation.  You're saying that you have to be at Kobe of MJ level to call out your teammates for half-@$$ing it in practice?