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Author Topic: 2018 College Football Thread  (Read 51790 times)

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #125 on: October 30, 2018, 11:03:10 AM »
The walk-on program is another reason Wisconsin football thrives. Alvarez modeled it after Nebraska under Tom Osborne. (Alvarez also went to Nebraska.)

Jared Abbrederris (sic?) and Alex Erickson were HS QBs. Both moved to WR and went onto the NFL. Joe Schobert went from HS RB to NFL LB.  The list goes on and on.  There is even a book about WI walk-ons; Walk-on This Way.

MUBurrow

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2018, 11:13:16 AM »

And that's why Illinois doesn't need to "get weird."  Just get a good coach.

Iowa hired Hayden Fry in 1979 and hired Kirk Ferentz when he retired.  Everyone knows what Iowa football is.  Wisconsin hired Barry Alvarez in 1990, and outside of a two year stint with Gary Andersen, has been run pretty much the same way since then with two of his assistants.  Everyone knows what Wisconsin football is. 

Both Fry and Alvarez knew that how you build long-term success is by looking at what the high schools are producing in their main recruiting areas.  It's not some spread option stuff.  It is run of the mill, power football.  All of that feeds their programs.  Someone said earlier that Illinois cannot "out Big Ten the Big Ten."  But that's exactly what Iowa and Wisconsin have done!  (Michigan State too.)

Getting weird may bring Illinois some wins early.  But I just don't think it's sustainable.  Purdue did that with Joe Tiller.  It worked pretty good for awhile - until Joe was pushed out and the program has sucked since then.

Agree to disagree that IL can follow the Wisconsin or Iowa model. While Wisco and Iowa as states may not have the aggregate in-state recruiting talent of Illinois, those schools are so insulated from recruiting competition that they are able to retain a disproportionate number of their own top guys, who skew heavily toward one or two positions and enable them to develop a program identity (the bolded section of your post above). 

You see that culturally, not just in football terms, and its not just based on one coach. When you drive even into northern Wisconsin, just watch for how many service and retail businesses are called "Badger X."  Or in Iowa, how many of the same business are "Hawkeye X."  Those high school recruits aren't going anywhere else. And you'll never get that in Illinois. Their success isn't because they got "just a good coach" its because that coach's success was able to exploit a statewide hunger to identify with the school that was already there, and that feeds on itself - and Illinois will never have that. They'll always have - at best - a 25% chance of fending off ND, and nothern B10 schools for Chicago area kids, and maybe a slightly better chance at fending off the B12 or SEC for kids in the southern part of the state.

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2018, 11:26:51 AM »
Agree to disagree that IL can follow the Wisconsin or Iowa model. While Wisco and Iowa as states may not have the aggregate in-state recruiting talent of Illinois, those schools are so insulated from recruiting competition that they are able to retain a disproportionate number of their own top guys, who skew heavily toward one or two positions and enable them to develop a program identity (the bolded section of your post above). 

You see that culturally, not just in football terms, and its not just based on one coach. When you drive even into northern Wisconsin, just watch for how many service and retail businesses are called "Badger X."  Or in Iowa, how many of the same business are "Hawkeye X."  Those high school recruits aren't going anywhere else. And you'll never get that in Illinois. Their success isn't because they got "just a good coach" its because that coach's success was able to exploit a statewide hunger to identify with the school that was already there, and that feeds on itself - and Illinois will never have that. They'll always have - at best - a 25% chance of fending off ND, and nothern B10 schools for Chicago area kids, and maybe a slightly better chance at fending off the B12 or SEC for kids in the southern part of the state.


You are making the assumption this has always been the case.  It hasn't.  In the 1980s, Wisconsin football talent was routinely heading elsewhere.  Hell, Iowa was routinely recruiting guys out of Wisconsin during that time.  Michigan and Nebraska had a ton of Wisconsin kids back in the day too. 

Alvarez made a HUGE deal of sealing the borders and not letting the in-state talent leave.  Brent Moss was a high school All-American running back from Racine who was down to Michigan and Penn State before Alvarez walked in the door and convinced him that he could be the cornerstone of a championship team.

Lazar is 100% accurate, that even "non-scholarship" talent was invited to walk on and earn a scholarship.  Jim Leonhard is the best example of that.

It takes a good coach, time and effort.

Pakuni

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2018, 11:41:56 AM »
Agree to disagree that IL can follow the Wisconsin or Iowa model. While Wisco and Iowa as states may not have the aggregate in-state recruiting talent of Illinois, those schools are so insulated from recruiting competition that they are able to retain a disproportionate number of their own top guys, who skew heavily toward one or two positions and enable them to develop a program identity (the bolded section of your post above). 

You see that culturally, not just in football terms, and its not just based on one coach. When you drive even into northern Wisconsin, just watch for how many service and retail businesses are called "Badger X."  Or in Iowa, how many of the same business are "Hawkeye X."  Those high school recruits aren't going anywhere else. And you'll never get that in Illinois. Their success isn't because they got "just a good coach" its because that coach's success was able to exploit a statewide hunger to identify with the school that was already there, and that feeds on itself - and Illinois will never have that. They'll always have - at best - a 25% chance of fending off ND, and nothern B10 schools for Chicago area kids, and maybe a slightly better chance at fending off the B12 or SEC for kids in the southern part of the state.

Wisconsin and Iowa have succeeded not so much because they've kept elite talent at home, but because they've landed so much of the mid-level kids (say, in the top 150 to 500) and then developed them.
Illinois hasn't even got those kids.
Iowa and Wisconsin also benefit from the lack of in-state competition for those mid-level recruits. Iowa has Iowa State, but they've always been the much little brother, and Wisconsin doesn't even have an FCS program to compete against.
Illinois, on the other hand, has good FBS programs at Northwestern and Northern Illinois, along with four FCS programs.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 12:17:13 PM by Pakuni »

MUBurrow

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2018, 12:18:35 PM »
Sultan - you're right to point out my recency bias. I do think that Illinois has a lot of things working against it that Iowa and Wisco don't have, and so U of I's momentum will always be more fragile than Iowa's, Wisco's, or Nebraska's.  But they could aim for a MSU-ish level of success with some good coaching hires.  Its such a stepping stone job at this point, though, that even with big $ I think they'd need to string three good hires together to legitimately improve the program in a sustainable way.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #130 on: October 30, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »
Oddly, I recently was surprised by how little football talent Illinois produces relative to its size.

The state's Class of 2016 had just one top 200 player (per 247).
Class of 2017 had three.
Class of 2018 had one.
Class of 2019 has two (the highest rated being #138).

Not that it's an excuse for how bad the Illini have been (we can blame that on terrible coaching hires since John Mackvic), but the state hasn't been a hotbed for college football talent since Donovan McNabb and Simeon Rice were teammates at Mount Carmel.

Uhhhh....Simeon Rice went to the school of hard knocks.   C'mon now.

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #131 on: October 30, 2018, 02:56:04 PM »
So DJ Durkin has been reinstated by Maryland.  Apparently the President of the University didn't want him back.  However the Board of Trustees told the President that he would be out of a job unless he reinstated Durkin.

That sounds normal.

JWags85

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #132 on: October 30, 2018, 03:04:07 PM »
So DJ Durkin has been reinstated by Maryland.  Apparently the President of the University didn't want him back.  However the Board of Trustees told the President that he would be out of a job unless he reinstated Durkin.

That sounds normal.

10-15 with a bulletin board win over a mediocre Texas team last year AND the program has a 2 game winning streak over Minnesota.  And he's a sterling 1-1 vs Rutgers.  I don't know how you CANT overlook his concerning behavior for those results.  Rockstar with a headset

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #133 on: October 30, 2018, 03:13:09 PM »
So apparently the President is leaving his job.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/U-of-Maryland-President-Steps/244960/?fbclid=IwAR0ao-QEE0gC6sMPt4VLBZ6FFMok5PkDcpACNmb3BBUs4DbzQwd8SC2seCQ#.W9i3UhKJLHk.facebook

And of course there is this tidbit, which is just so precious:

"The day before, regents had been presented with a nearly 200-page investigative report that describes a program with little administrative oversight, in which “problems festered because too many players feared speaking out.” It also described inappropriate behavior by Rick Court, the former strength-and-conditioning coach, who at one point threw what the report described as a “trash can full of vomit” at players.

According to the Post, regents strongly urged Loh to allow Durkin to return from a suspension that was imposed in August. Many regents were impressed by their in-person meeting with Durkin during Friday’s board meeting, the newspaper reported."


I mean really.  What the f*ck is that?  They commission a report that says the program is a trainwreck, but they meet with the guy in person and he seems like a nice guy.

MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #134 on: October 30, 2018, 03:18:32 PM »
So apparently the President is leaving his job.

Saw this line and got excited for a second there ...
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #135 on: October 30, 2018, 03:20:17 PM »
@DanWolken

What’s amazing about this press conference is that Maryland has an easy and foolproof (albeit expensive) way to fix everything and they’re deliberately choosing the most complex solution with the smallest chance of success.

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #136 on: October 31, 2018, 10:02:09 AM »
College Football Playoff Rankings, Oct. 30
1.Alabama (8-0)
2.Clemson (8-0)
3.LSU (7-1)
4.Notre Dame (8-0)
5.Michigan (7-1)
6.Georgia (7-1)
7.Oklahoma (7-1)
8.Washington State (7-1)
9.Kentucky (7-1)
10.Ohio State (7-1)
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
-Bill Walton

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2018, 10:09:26 AM »
I don't see Clemson or ND losing.  I would put them in the playoffs.

Alabama plays at LSU Saturday.  Alabama wins and they are pretty much in the playoffs even if they lose in the SEC Championship Game.  LSU wins and neither can afford another loss.  Which could get real weird if UGA wins out and wins the SECCG.

Michigan has at Penn State this weekend and home against OSU.  If they win out, coupled with an LSU loss, they are in as well.

Oklahoma, Washington State and Kentucky / Georgia likely need help.  (Kentucky and Georgia play this weekend)


So right now, I am projecting Alabama v. Michigan and Clemson v. ND.

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2018, 10:47:33 AM »
I could see Notre Dame losing to Northwestern, Syracuse or @ USC.

Also, Michigan host Penn State this Saturday. They are at Ohio State to end the year.
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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JWags85

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #139 on: October 31, 2018, 10:49:15 AM »
Oh look, Urban Meyer with a new health issue when his team is disappointing and he's catching some other assorted off the field heat at his current job...

I would never make light of severe health issues and brain disease is horrible, but Meyer is a known and proven liar who has stretched and distorted the truth for personal gain repeatedly.  This seems conveniently like the Florida situation where his "dangerous" health issues wonderfully cleared up in a single season away from coaching.

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2018, 10:52:24 AM »
Also, Michigan host Penn State this Saturday. They are at Ohio State to end the year.

Thanks for the correction.  Have no idea how I screwed that up.

MUBurrow

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #141 on: October 31, 2018, 10:53:53 AM »
I don't see Clemson or ND losing.  I would put them in the playoffs.

Alabama plays at LSU Saturday.  Alabama wins and they are pretty much in the playoffs even if they lose in the SEC Championship Game.  LSU wins and neither can afford another loss.  Which could get real weird if UGA wins out and wins the SECCG.

Michigan has at Penn State this weekend and home against OSU.  If they win out, coupled with an LSU loss, they are in as well.

Oklahoma, Washington State and Kentucky / Georgia likely need help.  (Kentucky and Georgia play this weekend)


So right now, I am projecting Alabama v. Michigan and Clemson v. ND.

If Alabama has one loss on the year, whether this weekend or in the SEC championship, I think they're still in. So if the SEC has two one loss teams, I think both are in. The only team that could ruin that would be if Michigan went undefeated in the Big 10, I think the committee would have a hard time keeping them out (though I think the only SEC team Michigan would beat on a neutral field is Kentucky).

MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #142 on: October 31, 2018, 11:33:20 AM »
I could see Notre Dame losing to Northwestern, Syracuse or @ USC.

Me too. They almost lost at home to Ball State and Pitt.

Rooting for them to choke away 2 of these 3!!

Although, it would be satisfying to see them get to the playoffs as the No. 4 seed and lose by 10,000 points to Bama.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #143 on: October 31, 2018, 02:09:11 PM »
Me too. They almost lost at home to Ball State and Pitt.


There was never a point where they almost lost to Ball State. They just let them hang around. Now, Pitt was a different story.

As a USC lifelong fan, the storied Coliseum is always a "little louder when the Fighting Irish come to town" --Keith Jackson  ;D
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Pakuni

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #144 on: October 31, 2018, 05:36:46 PM »
Now this from a Washington Post sports writer ...

Rick Maese @RickMaese
And in a stunning twist, the University Maryland has parted ways with DJ Durkin… more coming soon…

nyg

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2018, 06:50:05 PM »
Now this from a Washington Post sports writer ...

Rick Maese @RickMaese
And in a stunning twist, the University Maryland has parted ways with DJ Durkin… more coming soon…

Lots of backlash from yesterday’s Regents decision.  Deceased player’s family, UMD students, many players, some of whom walked out of Durkin first back team meeting, politicians, and then Gov. Hogan said this morning that decision was strange and he wanted to look into it.  Gov. Hogan originally appointed members to the Board of Regents.  Canada to coach remainder of season. 

RJax55

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #146 on: October 31, 2018, 08:24:09 PM »
Lots of backlash from yesterday’s Regents decision.  Deceased player’s family, UMD students, many players, some of whom walked out of Durkin first back team meeting, politicians, and then Gov. Hogan said this morning that decision was strange and he wanted to look into it.  Gov. Hogan originally appointed members to the Board of Regents.  Canada to coach remainder of season.

I think the players speaking out was the end. If Durkin stayed, there's was no way he was going to be able to recruit effectively anymore. So the program's future outlook with him was poor at best. With no future and no ability to lead the current team, he simply had no value to the program. The Board of Regents initial decision was as short-sided as you will find.

jesmu84

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #147 on: October 31, 2018, 08:37:17 PM »
I think the players speaking out was the end. If Durkin stayed, there's was no way he was going to be able to recruit effectively anymore. So the program's future outlook with him was poor at best. With no future and no ability to lead the current team, he simply had no value to the program. The Board of Regents initial decision was as short-sided as you will find.

I really don't understand the board's decision. What did they have to gain? Was there some blackmail or financial win/loss at stake?

nyg

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2018, 09:09:11 PM »
I really don't understand the board's decision. What did they have to gain? Was there some blackmail or financial win/loss at stake?

No one understood decision, just a nightmare for UMD.
Perception of lack of transparency and UMD did not relieve those in charge.
It’s over now, most are appeased and the Terps will move forward.  New coach process to start after season.
No big financials, but Durkin gets 5.5 million buyout. 

MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2018, 09:28:46 PM »
The only way MD could have handled the whole thing worse would have been to have promoted Durkin to university president. What a travesty.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

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