collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Coaching Carousel by Uncle Rico
[Today at 09:52:19 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Scoop Snoop
[Today at 09:51:44 AM]


2024 Transfer Portal by Uncle Rico
[Today at 09:43:51 AM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Zog from Margo
[Today at 09:41:55 AM]


Big East 23-24 NCAA and NIT Results by cheebs09
[Today at 09:36:47 AM]


Pep Band/Cheerleaders by TallTitan34
[Today at 09:22:48 AM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Bob "Big Daddy" Wild
[Today at 08:40:12 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: 2018 US Open audience?  (Read 6439 times)

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7403
    • https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys
2018 US Open audience?
« on: September 09, 2018, 11:00:10 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvy0d_65aKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCm3BemDlj8

Serena had a melt-down .. I think the umpire made the right calls, mostly, her coach admitted to coaching signals, so there's no real defense there.  Maybe you could kibbitz that the ump could have given Serena a super duper warning (in essence, letting her have 4 instead of 3 infractions before a game penalty.)

Besides Williams' poor behavior, I think she was relatively gracious at the end.

But .. watching this and reading the articles .. it sure seems like the AUDIENCE was the most wrong.   I can't quite fathom their behavior.

I mean, I get it, a ref makes a bunch of bad calls at a MU game, and the audience is all over them.  I think I'm mostly confused at the audience being on "team Serena" so much so, they denigrate the victory of this seemingly wonderful 20 year old girl who completely demolished Williams, 6-2, 6-4.

Anyone follow the sport enough .. maybe this Osaka girl has some bad history that would explain why the audience would do this?

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 11:17:22 AM »
I would say the problems are multi-fold. 

First, coaching from the stands with hand signals happens all the time.  Why this judge picked this moment in time to penalize her for it, while by the book is correct, is really the wrong thing to do.  It's like running a speed trap for those going 2 mph over the speed limit during rush hour.  Wrong place, wrong time to do things completely by the book when no one does things by the book.

Second, Serena melted down and pushed it too far.  She has a history of that.  A lot of national media is taking her side on this and I just don't see it.  Openly calling the judge a thief is flat out wrong.  She shodittould have let it go.

Third, the crowd's response was awful. 

So the only good party in this entire deal is Osaka.  She deserved better.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4726
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2018, 11:40:09 AM »
I would say the problems are multi-fold. 

First, coaching from the stands with hand signals happens all the time.  Why this judge picked this moment in time to penalize her for it, while by the book is correct, is really the wrong thing to do.  It's like running a speed trap for those going 2 mph over the speed limit during rush hour.  Wrong place, wrong time to do things completely by the book when no one does things by the book.


My guess is there were multiple complaints about her coach specifically doing a lot of coaching, and they were asked to watch for it. It wasn't only hand signals either, he apparently was yelling instructions. 

Also, it was only a warning.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2018, 11:50:32 AM »
We don't think of it this way because its not a team sport, but many tennis fans are just as loyal to individual players as we are to our basketball/football/hockey teams. The crowd's reaction was fandom, pure and simple.

Now that doesn't make it right but its not that surprising to me.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »
Yea, it’s kind of ridiculous to turn this into a gender issue. The coach admitted to coaching. The only reason it was a game and not a regular warning is she already got dinged for coaching and breaking her racket.

Serena was also the one to tell a line judge she was going to shove a ball down her throat at the US Open a number of years ago.

MUBurrow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1392
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 12:15:30 PM »
Yea, it’s kind of ridiculous to turn this into a gender issue. The coach admitted to coaching. The only reason it was a game and not a regular warning is she already got dinged for coaching and breaking her racket.


Completely disagree. This judge turned the letter of the law vs spirit of the law against Serena in literally every instance here, injected himself into the outcome, and is far more to blame for the degree this takes away from Osaka than Serena. Anyone that cites to the coach's admission that he was coaching just isn't taking into account his whole interview, or the realities of tennis. That was remarkably tame in comparison to what other coaches do during matches, and its NEVER called. And unless a player physically assaults a chair umpire, you just don't give entire games away in the final of a grand slam. Giving the umpire/referee the ability to straight up award points takes away from the legitimacy of any sport, and the chair umpire shouldn't have been so eager to do so.

MUBurrow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1392
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 12:22:43 PM »
nm

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 12:47:44 PM »
Completely disagree. This judge turned the letter of the law vs spirit of the law against Serena in literally every instance here, injected himself into the outcome, and is far more to blame for the degree this takes away from Osaka than Serena. Anyone that cites to the coach's admission that he was coaching just isn't taking into account his whole interview, or the realities of tennis. That was remarkably tame in comparison to what other coaches do during matches, and its NEVER called. And unless a player physically assaults a chair umpire, you just don't give entire games away in the final of a grand slam. Giving the umpire/referee the ability to straight up award points takes away from the legitimacy of any sport, and the chair umpire shouldn't have been so eager to do so.

Yep.
This goes way beyond the hand signals thing, which was at best a minor infraction with a minor penalty. Serena was punished more substantially for actions - smashing her racquet, yelling at the umpire - that other players (namely men) have gotten away with in the sport forever.
Carlos Ramos went Joe West and made everyone look bad in the process.

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12799
  • 9-9-9
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 01:40:47 PM »
Serena is one of the all time greats in all of sports. I thought it was bs for the Umpire to inject himself into the match the way he did. Osaka had a great match and it was too bad her efforts got got caught up in a typical US Open side show that happens every so often.  Serena showed class by acknowledging her opponents win in the ceremony. 
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
                       ---Al McGuire

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 01:46:12 PM »
Yep.
This goes way beyond the hand signals thing, which was at best a minor infraction with a minor penalty. Serena was punished more substantially for actions - smashing her racquet, yelling at the umpire - that other players (namely men) have gotten away with in the sport forever.
Carlos Ramos went Joe West and made everyone look bad in the process.

She got penalized a point for the racket because she already had a warning for coaching. Another code violation results in a point penalty. Breaking a racket is a code violation. He had no choice other than penalizing her a point.

Was it a quick trigger on the violation for verbal abuse? I’d say so. Do I think it’s because she’s a woman? Not at all.

mu03eng

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5049
    • Scrambled Eggs Podcast
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2018, 05:37:49 PM »
She got penalized a point for the racket because she already had a warning for coaching. Another code violation results in a point penalty. Breaking a racket is a code violation. He had no choice other than penalizing her a point.

Was it a quick trigger on the violation for verbal abuse? I’d say so. Do I think it’s because she’s a woman? Not at all.

Then explain why there is seemingly much more tolerance for men getting vocal and nasty without consequence? Andy Roddick admitted to saying far worse to an official and it went unpunished
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

WarriorFan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1629
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2018, 06:17:53 PM »
Possibly one of the best and most competitive women's finals in years was destroyed by an official who forgot his place.  The coaching thing is pervasive and could (should) have been resolved with a polite discussion.  Enforcing such a silly and oft-violated rule in the open championship is like suddenly enforcing holding in the Super Bowl, or traveling when James Harden is playing in the NBA playoffs after not enforcing it for the whole season.  Had that not irritated Serena she probably wouldn't have broken her racket.  Had she not broken her racket she wouldn't have fought so hard verbally about the coaching thing.  Then the fans won't be robbed of a possible 3rd set - which is the real tragedy here.

The official should be removed from all top level competition.
Serena surely is humiliated enough.
Osaka unfortunately will never get to celebrate this championship the way it should be celebrated.  She played great.  She doesn't have a complete game yet, but she played to her own strengths so well that she beat Serena.  She handled it as well as anyone could.  Kudos to here.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6029
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2018, 06:25:29 PM »
Then explain why there is seemingly much more tolerance for men getting vocal and nasty without consequence? Andy Roddick admitted to saying far worse to an official and it went unpunished

Was it roddicks first incident that day? Have tennis umps been given new instructions on warnings/punishments since roddick played?

In Serena's case, I don't think what she said was bad, but it was her 3rd incident that day.

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 06:54:58 PM »
Then explain why there is seemingly much more tolerance for men getting vocal and nasty without consequence? Andy Roddick admitted to saying far worse to an official and it went unpunished

I don’t think it was the right call to give her the game penalty. I also don’t believe it was given because she was a woman.

 She argued a decent amount right away when the point penalty was assessed and then spent an entire changeover berating him. How many times have we seen a basketball coach get T’d up for not saying something bad, but just for not letting up?

I’ve seen videos in the past day of McEnroe and Roddick being penalized points and games. So the idea they always got off without penalty isn’t true. Just not in the final of a major.

Heck, I’m sure there’s plenty of women tennis players that have said worse and not gotten a warning. To make this into a gender issue is ridiculous in my opinion.




cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 06:58:26 PM »
Also, replay has changed things a lot in regards to the player/chair arguments. They are far less common now than in the past. That may have played a role in a shorter leash than when Roddick was in his hey-day.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2018, 07:21:38 PM »
Also, replay has changed things a lot in regards to the player/chair arguments. They are far less common now than in the past. That may have played a role in a shorter leash than when Roddick was in his hey-day.

This. The rants I remember when I watched McEnroe and the rest were invariably over line calls. That has been eliminated by replay.

Question: If Serena's opponent hadn't been another minority would racism be in this mix with sexism?

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2018, 07:42:51 PM »
Completely disagree. This judge turned the letter of the law vs spirit of the law against Serena in literally every instance here, injected himself into the outcome, and is far more to blame for the degree this takes away from Osaka than Serena. Anyone that cites to the coach's admission that he was coaching just isn't taking into account his whole interview, or the realities of tennis. That was remarkably tame in comparison to what other coaches do during matches, and its NEVER called. And unless a player physically assaults a chair umpire, you just don't give entire games away in the final of a grand slam. Giving the umpire/referee the ability to straight up award points takes away from the legitimacy of any sport, and the chair umpire shouldn't have been so eager to do so.

I agree with this 100%.

Chris Evert said she believes Serena should have been given a warning before the game penalty, and she also felt that men, in general, get longer leashes with things like "racquet abuse."

I think Chris Evert knows a thing or two about all of this stuff.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Benny B

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5969
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2018, 10:41:03 PM »
Question: If Serena's opponent hadn't been another minority would racism be in this mix with sexism?

I’m not googling, but I’m sure someone’s whining somewhere about racism in this incident. 

Besides, is the chair umpire not a minority, himself?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7403
    • https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 10:45:17 PM »
Help me out here .. so the first incident, the ump gives Williams a *warning* for coaching from the sidelines.  Yes?   Besides counting as a warning, is there any other effect?  Lost point or something?

Also .. besides not enforcing the rule, could the ump have done something less?

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 10:46:06 PM »
I’m not googling, but I’m sure someone’s whining somewhere about racism in this incident. 

Besides, is the chair umpire not a minority, himself?

Because minorities can’t be racist???

Regardless I don’t think it was sexism. I think it was just a bad time to call things by the book.

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 10:46:55 PM »
Help me out here .. so the first incident, the ump gives Williams a *warning* for coaching from the sidelines.  Yes?   Besides counting as a warning, is there any other effect?  Lost point or something?

Also .. besides not enforcing the rule, could the ump have done something less?



Yes.  The umpire could have told Williams to calm down otherwise he was going to punish her a game.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4726
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 11:21:11 PM »

Yes.  The umpire could have told Williams to calm down otherwise he was going to punish her a game.

It's not like she simply went up to him and was immediately punished a game. 

She berated him and he let it slide, possibly warned her to calm down. 

She then game back and during the entire break, continuously berated him again. 

The game punishment was well deserved.

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7403
    • https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2018, 06:52:13 AM »

Yes.  The umpire could have told Williams to calm down otherwise he was going to punish her a game.

Maybe I wasn't clear .. I was talking about the first warning about coaching.   (The ump wouldn't have needed to tell her to calm down prior to that ..)

So, same q, could the ump have done anything else besides non-enforcement?  Something less than a warning.  Like, a non-warning warning.

rocket surgeon

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3652
  • NA of course
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2018, 07:49:44 AM »
Ok, it’s not racism, then it’s got to be sexism, but no.  Then if it’s not sexism, it’s got to be something ‘ism...my-my, where we have come with so much diversity.  Why can’t we just accept the decisions being made as , o.k. My bad.  We all do this to some degree, in the heat of the moment, but then, what has become fewer and further between, admitting our biases or short comings.  Not a good example for the youngsters

The $17,000 fine had to be the last straw though, eyn’a?  ;D
don't...don't don't don't don't

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: 2018 US Open audience?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2018, 07:58:29 AM »
Ok, it’s not racism, then it’s got to be sexism, but no.  Then if it’s not sexism, it’s got to be something ‘ism...my-my, where we have come with so much diversity.  Why can’t we just accept the decisions being made as , o.k. My bad.  We all do this to some degree, in the heat of the moment, but then, what has become fewer and further between, admitting our biases or short comings.  Not a good example for the youngsters


I doubt many youngsters were watching.

At least she didn't shave her head.

 

feedback