Mexico?

[rocket surgeon]

Is Mexico worse than some places in Chicago?

i think the beaches in chicago may not be as good, but otherwise...?

[jsglow]

I hear this Newsie fellow might have some inside scoop on the islands.

You know newsy has a new bbq grill, right? 

[mu_hilltopper]

We continue to go, be smart about it.  Went last Summer to Mexico.  This family of four that passed away I will bet was a carbon monoxide situation. 

"Toxic Gasses" .. whatever that is.

I wonder .. in the US, they add Mercaptan (w/Sulfur) to make natural gas smell like eggs when leaking.  Maybe they don't do that in Mexico. 

http://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-family-found-dead-in-mexico-died-from-inhalation-of-toxic-gases-authorities-say/19585044

[real chili 83]

You know newsy has a new bbq grill, right? 

Custom made for tomahawk ribeyes.

[🏀]

Mexico is fine. Nothing beats ORD to CUN. Have your private transfer waiting and you're in resort within four house from wheels up drinking a fantastic rum runner.

Those saying 'we won't be back' are sensationalizing.

[Benny B]

Cozumel's fine Chitown.  They had cancelled some mainland shore excursions several weeks ago but they're back on now.  So many ships stop there that they get a very steady flow of dollars without seemingly having the problems associated with the mainland.

Ehhhhhhh..... I wouldn't exactly call it "fine." 

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/03/02/apparent-explosive-device-found-on-mexican-ferry-off-cozumel.html


Here's the bottom line on Mexico... not from an actual dollar (peso) amount, but for lack of a better term, from a "priority" standpoint, tourism is their #3 industry behind manufacturing and the drug trade.  Go to just about any Caribbean country where tourism is #1, and you'll find that law enforcement has zero tolerance for any situation where tourists are being put into danger, whether targeted or simply in the "cross-fire."  Because tourism is where their bread is buttered, and even an impoverished, crime-ridden country like Jamaica knows that one bad incident could decimate (at least temporarily) their economy.

In Mexico... quite simply, local law enforcement doesn't share the concern for tourists that their counterparts do in other countries; most are more worried about the cartels, i.e. whether they're going to live long enough to see their daughter's quince.  Nevertheless, the resort owners are absolutely concerned about publicity, but since they are not always assured of universal cooperation from law enforcement, their PR campaigns end up being reactive rather than proactive, which basically means that instead of keeping the story from happening, their strategy is to keep the story from getting out -- whether it's paying off the local police to do a half-burro investigation or paying off the local hospital to not test for the two most common date rape drugs or paying off the travel websites to censor any bad reviews, there's a lot of colluding going on within the Mexican tourism industry, which doesn't necessarily make things dangerous, but if something does happen to you, it renders any chance of recourse or closure virtually impossible.  Yes, there is corruption and collusion in Jamaica, DR, Aruba, etc... the difference there is that said corruption/collusion typically errs on the side of maintaining tourists' safety; in other words, parts of Jamaica may not be safer than parts of Mexico, but if a local murders a tourist in Jamaica, that person - if he ever sees due process - is going to rot in jail while the local who murders a tourist in Mexico stands a much better, if not inevitable, chance of never being charged.

Of course, there's also this idea among the travel companies that there are enough tourists in the US (like a few in this thread) who will continue to visit Mexico short of an outright travel ban, and if a few tourists die under "mysterious circumstances," so be it... just drop your rates or advertise a special, and there will be plenty of new demand.  Until people actually stop going to Mexico, don't expect anything to change.  In other words, this family from Iowa... the smart money is on the world being fed a cover story without ever knowing exactly what happened, but the smarter money is on the people planning Mexican vacations being gullible enough to believe the cover story.

tl;dr:  Mexico is no more dangerous today than it was 20 years ago... the only thing that's changed is that the stories are now starting to leak out.  If you're smart about it, that's one thing, but if you become a victim, get comfortable with knowing there is nothing you can do about it.

[nyg]

Somethings I don't do.  Get on a motorcycle, fly in small prop planes and go to Mexico. 

Watch the movie Sicario........

[jsglow]

While I don't disagree with you Benny, the ferry issue is exactly why they shut down the mainland excursions.

Look, there are places I absolutely would not go to in Mexico.  Acapulco and Mazatlan come to mind.  But Cozumel is at or near the bottom of the 'risky' list.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Caribbean is superior in almost every way.  Even the impoverished islands.  Whether Mexico ever gets a handle on this is unknowable at this time.  Let's hope so but it won't be soon. 

[Benny B]

I wholeheartedly agree that the Caribbean is superior in almost every way.  Even the impoverished islands.  Whether Mexico ever gets a handle on this is unknowable at this time.  Let's hope so but it won't be soon.

What I think it comes down to is this... everyone knows where their bread is buttered.  In the Caribbean countries, even where tourists aren't necessarily revered guests, their importance is recognized if for no other reason their impact on the local economy.   

In Mexico... well, let's just say there's nowhere near the level of respect for foreigners, let alone tourists; everyone here knows what a gringo or a yankee is, as well as the context in which it is oft-used.  There's a certain entrenchment of these perceptions against the foreigners, even if there appears to be tolerance publicly.  So even though tourism makes up a material portion of Mexico's GDP (~16%), in Jamaica it's 30%, 60% in Anguilla, and almost 90% in Aruba, the latter of which actually brings up a great example of the contrast in these countries...

SCENARIO A: Despite whether or not you think Van der Sloot was involved in the Holloway death or whether you feel the investigation was doomed from the beginning, consider that with barely even any circumstantial evidence Aruban authorities pursued the case against Van der Sloot for nearly five years, and if not for Van der Sloot being found guilty in another death in Peru, the investigation might still be going strong today.

SCENARIO B: Kirsty MacColl.  If you don't know who she was, do yourself a favor and look it up.  Died in 2000 saving her son from being struck by a boat passing at high-speed through a dive site (where boats are prohibited).  The boat was owned by grocery magnate Guillermo González Nova who was on board but later blamed an employee who was at the controls (despite eyewitnesses saying the employee was not driving the boat).  Here's the kicker... the employee was convicted and sentenced to under 3 years, but was able to pay a fine in lieu of prison time.  How much was the fine?  $90.  [Of course, everyone knows damn well who actually paid the employee's fine (hint: it was probably the same person who was driving the boat).]  I suppose to Mexico's credit, they reopened the case in 2004 and later promised action after Bono spoke out about the incident in 2007... the employee has since "disappeared" and Nova is still a free man these days.  Shocker.

Nevertheless, find me an example of someone who killed a tourist in another country somewhere who, despite being convicted, paid a $90 fine in order to avoid serving any time, and I'll happily apologize to Mexico and everyone who likes to take vacations in places where being a victim of a crime entails little justice and a lot of pillow-biting.

[jsglow]

Obviously Benny is never going to Mexico ever again.  We get it. 

[Eldon]

While I don't disagree with you Benny, the ferry issue is exactly why they shut down the mainland excursions.

Look, there are places I absolutely would not go to in Mexico.  Acapulco and Mazatlan come to mind.  But Cozumel is at or near the bottom of the 'risky' list.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Caribbean is superior in almost every way.  Even the impoverished islands.  Whether Mexico ever gets a handle on this is unknowable at this time.  Let's hope so but it won't be soon.

+1

[dgies9156]

Scheduled to head to Cabo in a couple weeks. Anyone have familiarity with the area in terms of current safety, etc?

This is in anticipation of getting married there next spring.

Love it. Used to go there every spring before my wife and I bought a place in Florida. Beaches are great. People are nice. Probably will see more Americans than Mexicans there. No rain and just a great place.

Wonderful restaurants too.

[MU82]

What I think it comes down to is this... everyone knows where their bread is buttered.  In the Caribbean countries, even where tourists aren't necessarily revered guests, their importance is recognized if for no other reason their impact on the local economy.   

In Mexico... well, let's just say there's nowhere near the level of respect for foreigners, let alone tourists; everyone here knows what a gringo or a yankee is, as well as the context in which it is oft-used.  There's a certain entrenchment of these perceptions against the foreigners, even if there appears to be tolerance publicly.  So even though tourism makes up a material portion of Mexico's GDP (~16%), in Jamaica it's 30%, 60% in Anguilla, and almost 90% in Aruba, the latter of which actually brings up a great example of the contrast in these countries...

SCENARIO A: Despite whether or not you think Van der Sloot was involved in the Holloway death or whether you feel the investigation was doomed from the beginning, consider that with barely even any circumstantial evidence Aruban authorities pursued the case against Van der Sloot for nearly five years, and if not for Van der Sloot being found guilty in another death in Peru, the investigation might still be going strong today.

SCENARIO B: Kirsty MacColl.  If you don't know who she was, do yourself a favor and look it up.  Died in 2000 saving her son from being struck by a boat passing at high-speed through a dive site (where boats are prohibited).  The boat was owned by grocery magnate Guillermo González Nova who was on board but later blamed an employee who was at the controls (despite eyewitnesses saying the employee was not driving the boat).  Here's the kicker... the employee was convicted and sentenced to under 3 years, but was able to pay a fine in lieu of prison time.  How much was the fine?  $90.  [Of course, everyone knows damn well who actually paid the employee's fine (hint: it was probably the same person who was driving the boat).]  I suppose to Mexico's credit, they reopened the case in 2004 and later promised action after Bono spoke out about the incident in 2007... the employee has since "disappeared" and Nova is still a free man these days.  Shocker.

Nevertheless, find me an example of someone who killed a tourist in another country somewhere who, despite being convicted, paid a $90 fine in order to avoid serving any time, and I'll happily apologize to Mexico and everyone who likes to take vacations in places where being a victim of a crime entails little justice and a lot of pillow-biting.

Wait ... I thought Mexico sent all their "bad hombres" to the U.S.?

[warriorchick]

Wait ... I thought Mexico sent all their "bad hombres" to the U.S.?

That's just the overflow.   

[JWags85]

SCENARIO B: Kirsty MacColl.  If you don't know who she was, do yourself a favor and look it up.  Died in 2000 saving her son from being struck by a boat passing at high-speed through a dive site (where boats are prohibited).  The boat was owned by grocery magnate Guillermo González Nova who was on board but later blamed an employee who was at the controls (despite eyewitnesses saying the employee was not driving the boat).  Here's the kicker... the employee was convicted and sentenced to under 3 years, but was able to pay a fine in lieu of prison time.  How much was the fine?  $90.  [Of course, everyone knows damn well who actually paid the employee's fine (hint: it was probably the same person who was driving the boat).]  I suppose to Mexico's credit, they reopened the case in 2004 and later promised action after Bono spoke out about the incident in 2007... the employee has since "disappeared" and Nova is still a free man these days.

Even crazier is that she was a semi-successful singer, but her ex-husband and the father of the aforementioned kids was Steve Lillywhite, the mega producer who produced most of U2 and Dave Matthews Band’s catalog, among many other big names. So not just a tourist, but a fairy notable and connected tourist, and still it was a joke of a proceeding.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Peru!  Forget Mexico.

[Coleman]

That's the problem, though .. the dozens of stories from the JS series .. people aren't saying "Yeah, we booked this really sketchy hotel and drank some booze that looked a little cloudy."

Generally, we're talking Apple Vacations type stuff.   

And yeah, 99.99% of Mexico's citizenry are fine people.  It just takes a few bad dudes to eff it all up, especially with tourism.   

I can go to Florida or Hawaii and the State Department doesn't have a 20 page warning note about the area.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html

Hawaii is cool, but forever away. I like a nonstop from O'Hare 6 hours or less, and staying in the same time zone. Jet lag sucks when you're trying to relax. Hard pass on Florida.

I'd echo others that there are plenty of other destinations worth considering. I have been to Belize, the Bahamas, and Costa Rica and loved all of them for different reasons. I have been to Mexico twice and been underwhelmed. Even if Mexico was perfectly safe, which it isn't, there are better places to go.

[Benny B]

Obviously Benny is never going to Mexico ever again.  We get it.

Not "ever again."  Never.  As in never been, never will.  Because this:

I wholeheartedly agree that the Caribbean is superior in almost every way.  Even the impoverished islands.

[jsglow]

Hawaii is cool, but forever away. I like a nonstop from O'Hare 6 hours or less, and staying in the same time zone. Jet lag sucks when you're trying to relax. Hard pass on Florida.

I'd echo others that there are plenty of other destinations worth considering. I have been to Belize, the Bahamas, and Costa Rica and loved all of them for different reasons. I have been to Mexico twice and been underwhelmed. Even if Mexico was perfectly safe, which it isn't, there are better places to go.

Respectfully coleman, setting your criterion so very tight (especially non-stop flights) is really going to limit your experiences.  At one end of the scale is that person who takes every vacation moment they ever have and commits themselves to Disney's Magic Kingdom over and over and over.  At the other end of the scale is that guy that puts himself in harms way by solo hiking across Patagonia or summiting Everest.  Somewhere in the middle lies a sweet spot for each of us.  Challenge yourself to go just past your personal edge. 

There's lots of new places we still want to see.  Time and money will of course prevent seeing them all.  But if we can knock off one or two a year we're richer for the experience.

Even domestically.  I'm up to 47 states and landing at airports doesn't count.  3 to go.  Be a damn shame not to finish.  So I will.   

[MU82]

Well, my daughter is getting married in Cabo. So even if I believed 5 or 10 or 20 years ago that I'd never go there ... I can't miss my daughter's wedding.

Thoughts and prayers to me, the wedding party and all the guests, I guess.

[🏀]

Well, my daughter is getting married in Cabo. So even if I believed 5 or 10 or 20 years ago that I'd never go there ... I can't miss my daughter's wedding.

Thoughts and prayers to me, the wedding party and all the guests, I guess.

#thoughtsandprayers

Y'all gonna die.

[MU82]

#thoughtsandprayers

Y'all gonna die.

Well, it's been a good run.

[🏀]

Well, it's been a good run.

Before you leave, get yourself the Triple Thick Bacon Half Pound Club Sandwich from Arby's. After that it'll be a gentle ride into the sunset of life.

[4everwarriors]

 Nads, kan ya will them Panther ornaments ta BeeJay befour ya go, hey?

[Coleman]

Respectfully coleman, setting your criterion so very tight (especially non-stop flights) is really going to limit your experiences.  At one end of the scale is that person who takes every vacation moment they ever have and commits themselves to Disney's Magic Kingdom over and over and over.  At the other end of the scale is that guy that puts himself in harms way by solo hiking across Patagonia or summiting Everest.  Somewhere in the middle lies a sweet spot for each of us.  Challenge yourself to go just past your personal edge.

There's lots of new places we still want to see.  Time and money will of course prevent seeing them all.  But if we can knock off one or two a year we're richer for the experience.

Even domestically.  I'm up to 47 states and landing at airports doesn't count.  3 to go.  Be a damn shame not to finish.  So I will.

I can fly basically anywhere I want nonstop from O'Hare. It isn't limiting at all. I am 32, and I have been to Belize, Costa Rica (twice), Mexico (twice), Canada, Bahamas, Italy, Germany (twice), Ireland, UK, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic (twice), and Poland - and almost all of them on my dime, not my parents as a kid. I never studied abroad or my list would be way higher, and that is my one regret from MU. I will travel anywhere, anytime. Iceland will be happening by the end of 2018. I drive a 2010 Corolla with 150,000 miles on it because priorities like travel are way more important than stuff.

Before I was married I would mostly travel alone and meet people at hostels. Made some great friends from all over the world that way. Now we stay at hotels.

But I will spend my precious time at my destinations, not on 4 hour layovers or nights at the hotel airport because of missed connections. I will pay the extra dollar for nonstop. A couple of my trips have been 1 stop, but very few, and only if absolutely necessary.

If anything, I need to be more adventurous domestically. I just did a states visited count and I am at 35/50. I am hitting up Glacier National Park in June. Looking forward to that. Montana will be state #36. Nonstop flights from O'Hare to Missoula and back ;-)

My comments on Mexico stand though. I would gladly go back in time and take a re-do on at least one, if not both, of those trips.