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Author Topic: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread  (Read 197527 times)

jsglow

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #350 on: October 03, 2019, 06:40:02 AM »
I think he's Marriott Platinum now thus earning the lounge.  I never got past Silver.  Fine by me.  He also flies Alaska Air almost exclusively.  Seattle, Alaska, Pacific NW with occasional business trips and training exercises elsewhere.  Just spent 4 weeks at headquarters in DC.

WarriorFan

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #351 on: October 03, 2019, 11:55:47 AM »
I agree... hotel loyalty is still worth something.  I'm Marriott lifetime titanium and I haven't stayed in a standard room in ages.  Always suites, always lounge access, free very fast internet, and check in/out pretty much whenever I need to.  I really think twice before booking another brand, although I still end up 20+ nights a year in non-Marriott due to conferences or company bookings or cities where it's just not convenient.

Airline loyalty programs are pretty useless.  I'm spending the last of my AA miles (it got up over 2,000,000 for a while) but can't get much for them any more, and really must book ahead.   What I do to make travel simple is just fly on the cheapest business class there is.  That means I've used nearly every airline you can imagine.  In the last 18 months I've done trans-atlantic on BA, AA, Lufthansa, Swiss, Finn, Austrian, Qatar, and Lot and trans-pacific on Qatar, SQ, JAL, ANA, and Asiana.  Some are great... none are bad.  By doing this I get some very interesting layovers in new cities.

In the USA you can fly almost any route in first class for about $400.  It's worth it.  Even when you're on a little CRJ, the pointy end is always better.  When it's more expensive than that, I use my miles.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

JWags85

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #352 on: October 03, 2019, 12:13:51 PM »
Airline loyalty programs are pretty useless.  I'm spending the last of my AA miles (it got up over 2,000,000 for a while) but can't get much for them any more, and really must book ahead.   What I do to make travel simple is just fly on the cheapest business class there is.  That means I've used nearly every airline you can imagine.  In the last 18 months I've done trans-atlantic on BA, AA, Lufthansa, Swiss, Finn, Austrian, Qatar, and Lot and trans-pacific on Qatar, SQ, JAL, ANA, and Asiana.  Some are great... none are bad.  By doing this I get some very interesting layovers in new cities.

In the USA you can fly almost any route in first class for about $400.  It's worth it.  Even when you're on a little CRJ, the pointy end is always better.  When it's more expensive than that, I use my miles.

It really depends.  If you can have 7-10 years of heavy travel and get million mile status on an airline, then it doesn't matter much.  My father is lifetime Gold on United as a 1MM and that gets him lounges for any Star Alliance lounge on international travel, free bags, and economy plus.  You don't need much more as a casual flier.  If you're just a domestic flier, status is eh these days, especially if you're not checking bags.

I still gun for 1K cause the Global Upgrades are vital.  I fly to Asia/India 4-5 a year, and its the difference between flying business for $1000-1500 round trip or $5000+.  Unfortunately, I don't work for a consulting firm or Fortune100 company that would pay for the business fares, so the upgrades are vital.

And fully aware Im sounding douchey as someone who gets upgraded on 80% of domestic flights to 1st (im actually surprised when im not top 3 on the upgrade list, Dish I'm sure can relate), its usually not worth it.  Flights longer than 3 hours, then it is, but point to point anywhere east of the Mississippi and north of Florida, nah. You might get a drink and a mediocre meal.  The leg room isn't meaningfully different than EconomyPlus (unless you're 6'3+). 

I think Delta's actual in air product domestically is better, but United I get fed in first from NYC to Chicago.  I flew Delta first from Dallas to NYC with my gf and got to pick from a snack box and they had a limited drink selection.  Id never pay $250+ for that.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #353 on: October 03, 2019, 01:27:21 PM »
Delta flier.  I have Silver Medallion status and it is worth it.  I always book a seat in Main Cabin and the half-dozen round trips I've flown this year I've been bumped up on every leg of every flight to either Comfort Plus or First Class.

I have Hilton Honors, Marriot Bonvoy & use Hotels.com.  I usually go for a Hilton brand for a first choice, Marriott second, then an 8.0 or higher customer rated place on Hotels.com.  The problem is there isn't always a Hilton or Marriott branded hotel in the right location and if there is it may be too expensive (whether personal or business travel) or missing breakfast. 
I have Gold Status for Hilton & Hotels.com.  I get free breakfast at Hiltons that don't include breakfast and late check-out / early check-in.  My last Hotels.com stay was the Brewhouse Inn & Suites and I got upgraded to the top floor room with an outdoor patio. 

I don't recall ever missing any of my kids events.  I've always got to pick my travel schedule so I scheduled travel around their activities.  My upcoming Asia trip is a good example.  Squeezing in between Family Weekend at Xavier for the older daughter and an Open House for UVM for the younger daughter.  Plus I'm back on Election Day in time to vote in my town municipal election.  I miss Halloween, but I'm not missing because the younger daughter said "she's done with it" this year.

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #354 on: October 03, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
JWags hit the nail on the head. I’m 1K with United and haven’t been in a United Club in a couple years. All my work travel is domestic and I always plan to spend as little time as possible at the airport. My 1K status for my family is nice when they travel with me (all checked bags free, and I use my Regional/Global premier upgrades to try to get some combo of us upgraded), but as JWags said, my Marriott Titanium status is far more handy for the family. We’ve stayed in suites at some really nice places. My tip to people, if you’re staying at a resort with your family on an upcoming trip and you have status, always email the hotel manager a month ahead, let them know what your family is celebrating on that trip, and you should get something nice when you get there.

Been 1K for a long time and am legacy United Premier Executive and 1K. I fly them an awful lot (million mile flyer) and generally don't fly coach (am 6'5"). They're good about upgrading my family or traveling companions to Economy Plus. With Million Mile Status, I get Gold for life, which means I have automatic placement in Economy Plus if I fly Coach. That's about it. My wife also gets my status for the rest of her life.

I find that as a 1K, they care for me. They are concerned about me and they'll make sure they can do what they can for me.

I have a United Club membership, which is really great or downright awful depending on the city. Newark, Dulles and SFO 60s concourse is awful. ORD "B" is great, C is a craphole. Orlando is magnificent, the people are incredible and the service as good as anywhere. United Club in Minneapolis is small but nice. The new Los Angeles is club is fantastic and Houston isn't bad either.

The Globals and Regionals are worthless. United just rolled out a new program to replace them because too many of us have found these programs to be unusable.

I go to so many different places that a hotel loyalty is harder. I tend to prefer Starwood/Marriott and have to admit I stay at Westins when I can. The interesting thing about hotels is I can tell the quality within 5 seconds of walking in a room. How does it smell? Are there scuffs and scratches on the furniture and walls? What's the bathroom like? Are the windows clean? Does the furniture look like something made in the 21st century? And, how firm is the bed?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 01:59:34 PM by dgies9156 »

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #355 on: October 03, 2019, 02:23:52 PM »
As a watch-out, my Hilton Rewards account of about 2 million points was wiped out in a day and used on AMZ to buy products. Crooks are smart as they are looking for easy holes as these hotels are obviously not cyber security savvy. No alerts whatsoever. When called, they restored them no problem and they said it was the fifth case recently.  Hello...sounds like an inside job.

JWags85

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #356 on: October 03, 2019, 02:50:21 PM »
I have a United Club membership, which is really great or downright awful depending on the city. Newark, Dulles and SFO 60s concourse is awful. ORD "B" is great, C is a craphole. Orlando is magnificent, the people are incredible and the service as good as anywhere. United Club in Minneapolis is small but nice. The new Los Angeles is club is fantastic and Houston isn't bad either.

The Globals and Regionals are worthless. United just rolled out a new program to replace them because too many of us have found these programs to be unusable.

I go to so many different places that a hotel loyalty is harder. I tend to prefer Starwood/Marriott and have to admit I stay at Westins when I can. The interesting thing about hotels is I can tell the quality within 5 seconds of walking in a room. How does it smell? Are there scuffs and scratches on the furniture and walls? What's the bathroom like? Are the windows clean? Does the furniture look like something made in the 21st century? And, how firm is the bed?

United Club inconsistency is part of the reason why I'd never get the club card.  So many of them are cramped, outdated, no decent food options.

HARD disagree on Global's being worthless.  Again though, if you're a domestic flier who flies to Europe once a year in summer or around the holidays, then yes, probably worthless cause availability will be hard to find.  If you take 1 or more international trips a year, especially with a spouse, they are fantastic, provided you're not in a peak period.  I know 1Ks that have done mini-vacations in Asia, Europe, and S America cause they found good fares as demand wasn't high, and auto upgraded with the Globals.

But the new program will do little to fix that IMO.  While I still haven't figured out how 1Ks will be inconvenienced by the new program (cause I'm under no circumstances naive enough to believe its being done for passenger benefit and not a financial benefit for United), it seems like a response to Regionals.  If you're 1K like us, you rarely use them cause you're often upgraded, and when you're not, having a regional wouldn't have done much anyways.  Additionally, I have a hunch that bumping up the annual spend for 1K qualification from $12K to $15K (which factoring taxes that don't get included in qualifying spend, means more like $4000-4500 additional instead of $3K) sheared off a bunch of 1K fliers down to Platinum.  Now this new system removes Regionals, and gives Platinum an "ability" to get 1 Global while also allowing 1Ks to not waste Regionals and convert those to a Global.  They still likely wont open them up any earlier.  Thats my biggest gripe with United right now.  Put in an upgrade request, 50% of business class is open 3-4 days before the flight, and they wont clear it until day of.  I'm pretty sure they are sending messages or alerts with discounted upgrade fees to Global Services members or the like, cause its amazing how no B class seats are selling and then they jump up an additional $5000 each in the days leading up to the flight and they start disappearing in waves.

I'm a pretty ardent Hotels.com user.  My travel is 60% international trips every 6-8 weeks or so, 30% NYC (where my company has an apt), and 10% domestic.  So I don't load up on decent priced domestic nights like a lot of business travelers.  Staying at a US brand in places like London, Belgium, or HK is $300+ a night which often falls outside of budget, and without great status is a mediocre experience.  So I split between Hotels.com and Accor (as I have decent status from about 20 Sofitel nights a year).  Not great, but I get free nights on both a few times a year.

awilhelmscream

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #357 on: October 03, 2019, 03:57:02 PM »

Airline loyalty programs are pretty useless.  I'm spending the last of my AA miles (it got up over 2,000,000 for a while) but can't get much for them any more, and really must book ahead.   What I do to make travel simple is just fly on the cheapest business class there is.  That means I've used nearly every airline you can imagine.  In the last 18 months I've done trans-atlantic on BA, AA, Lufthansa, Swiss, Finn, Austrian, Qatar, and Lot and trans-pacific on Qatar, SQ, JAL, ANA, and Asiana.  Some are great... none are bad.  By doing this I get some very interesting layovers in new cities.

In the USA you can fly almost any route in first class for about $400.  It's worth it.  Even when you're on a little CRJ, the pointy end is always better.  When it's more expensive than that, I use my miles.

I don't entirely agree.  I fly Southwest and Delta exclusively and always end up with enough points for status on both.  For domestic travel Southwest has hands down the best frequent flyer program for domestic travelers.  If you get the credit card and fly enough the companion pass is well worth it if you can get there.  It gives you the ability to pick a person that will fly with you for free for the year and the ability to change who that person is up to 6 times per year.  We have the credit card and put everything on it and pay it off at the end of the month.  That coupled with the amount I fly (~75,000 points worth of flights per year) has had me there for the last 4 years or so.  Their point redemption seems to be the most fair to me as well.

I do Delta for everything west of the Mississippi and for my international flights to Europe for work.  I've found them to be the most reliable (knock on wood) and accommodating when things do go wrong out of the other major airlines that go international. 

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #358 on: October 03, 2019, 10:06:59 PM »

HARD disagree on Global's being worthless.  Again though, if you're a domestic flier who flies to Europe once a year in summer or around the holidays, then yes, probably worthless cause availability will be hard to find.  If you take 1 or more international trips a year, especially with a spouse, they are fantastic, provided you're not in a peak period.  I know 1Ks that have done mini-vacations in Asia, Europe, and S America cause they found good fares as demand wasn't high, and auto upgraded with the Globals.


I am a UPD, as in Unprofitable Domestic Passenger, on United. All of my travel is domestic, so I got 1K the hard way. I tend to purchase a discounted first class fare most of the time.

You perspective otherwise is right on. The problem with United Clubs has been access. They went from being an amenity to almost being given away. I like them for work, but the problem is the work environment in most now sucks. What's worse, my wife went into the new Polaris Lounge at EWR on her way to Greece last summer and found it downright disgusting. She was a Polaris passenger and 1K and could not find a seat at the bar, a table or anyone who would help her. To top it all off, it was dirty.

She walked in, spent less than five minutes and said anything beat that.

By contrast, my son and I flew to France and visited the Polaris Lounge in Chicago. Absolutely fantastic! United needs to get its act together in first class passenger amenities in the worst way.

WarriorFan

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #359 on: October 03, 2019, 11:11:43 PM »
As for airport clubs, my bank gave me priority pass for free and I use it pretty regularly when my airline doesn't have a lounge or when the location is more convenient.  The lounges aren't great, but better than sitting (often on the floor) in the concourse.  I think I'd even pay the $450 per year for it if I didn't get it for free.  It has also worked in some very bizarre places like Balikpapan, Victoria Falls, Yakutsk and others.  If I have a bunch of American flights coming up, I use miles to pay for another year of Admirals club.  I'd never pay real money for Admirals club. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

DegenerateDish

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #360 on: October 03, 2019, 11:36:42 PM »
I love this thread, I realize it’s not for everyone, and I honestly find joy in every perspective from all you guys/gals on travel.

I agree with JWags on the new Upgrades program has me trying to figure out how it’s getting downgraded. The Regional/Global upgrade process ticks me off more than anything else. I totally get United wants to wait as long as possible to sell that inventory rather than give it away. My beef was we went to Maui on March 1st this year on a Friday from LAX. I requested upgrades for all 5 of my family, and there was a ton of open inventory all the way up to the day of. I knew there was no business traveler competition on this leg either. I called United the morning of the flight asking why none of us had cleared yet. Long story short, 3 of the 5 ended up cleared, but even that didn’t happen until minutes before boarding. I’d rather know 24 hours before if I have multiple people on an itinerary that I’m trying to clear. 1K desk never has any idea, it’s frustrating (#firstworldproblem).

DegenerateDish

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #361 on: October 03, 2019, 11:49:52 PM »
I wanted to mention too, to me the best part of having higher levels of elite status is for when stuff goes wrong (and at some point it will). As an example, back in May I had a team meeting to go to in Atlanta. I got to my hotel in midtown around midnight and got walked. I was tired and had never been walked before (I’m Titanium with Marriott) and walking a Titanium is very costly. I ended up with 90k in points for the incident and cash compensation. Deep down I really didn’t care, the other hotel was across the street, but was able to rack up a ton of easy points.

WarriorFan

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #362 on: October 04, 2019, 12:23:20 AM »
I love this thread, I realize it’s not for everyone, and I honestly find joy in every perspective from all you guys/gals on travel.

I agree with JWags on the new Upgrades program has me trying to figure out how it’s getting downgraded. The Regional/Global upgrade process ticks me off more than anything else. I totally get United wants to wait as long as possible to sell that inventory rather than give it away. My beef was we went to Maui on March 1st this year on a Friday from LAX. I requested upgrades for all 5 of my family, and there was a ton of open inventory all the way up to the day of. I knew there was no business traveler competition on this leg either. I called United the morning of the flight asking why none of us had cleared yet. Long story short, 3 of the 5 ended up cleared, but even that didn’t happen until minutes before boarding. I’d rather know 24 hours before if I have multiple people on an itinerary that I’m trying to clear. 1K desk never has any idea, it’s frustrating (#firstworldproblem).
This is why I just suck it up and book biz/first. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #363 on: October 04, 2019, 07:34:32 AM »
This is why I just suck it up and book biz/first.

Yeup, the airlines figured this out, finally.

When I first started traveling regularly in the 1980s, there was no discounting first class. No yield management either. The airlines ended up with eight or nine unsold first class seats because the fares were absurd. They would sell "upgrades" to elite frequent flyers for pennies on the dollar.

The games we played with the upgrade rules were ridiculous, as was the thought that for $25 or $50 and some silly coupon, you rode first class.

There was one trip my wife and I took to San Francisco, where she flew for one cent (yeup a one cent companion fare) and was in first class both ways ORD-SFO.  I laughed my backside off when United called me one night and offered to refund the one cent. They really did. They knew what was coming.

About a decade ago, someone woke up and asked why the airlines were creating an unrealistic expectation of a first class seat for coach passengers. The result was yield management in domestic and international first class and people like me and Brother WarriorFan who just buy the domestic seats because the price is not much greater than coach.

WarriorFan

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #364 on: October 04, 2019, 08:50:25 AM »
I bode no ill will towards the airlines.  They are (almost all) horrible companies, run by idiots, staffed by drones and they don't care at all about customers.  ONE MUST ACCEPT THIS and find a way to get what one wants regardless of loyalty and points and miles and all of that. 

Anyone who thinks that airline "status"  will get you anything in 5-10 years is kidding themselves.

Hotels - some chains at least - are headed the same way, but you can still play it while there's a game to play. Probably 10-15 more years before the same scenario exists as exists now with air travel.  By then I'll be done traveling and won't care anymore anyway.
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #365 on: October 04, 2019, 08:51:39 AM »
I love this thread, I realize it’s not for everyone, and I honestly find joy in every perspective from all you guys/gals on travel.

I agree with JWags on the new Upgrades program has me trying to figure out how it’s getting downgraded. The Regional/Global upgrade process ticks me off more than anything else. I totally get United wants to wait as long as possible to sell that inventory rather than give it away. My beef was we went to Maui on March 1st this year on a Friday from LAX. I requested upgrades for all 5 of my family, and there was a ton of open inventory all the way up to the day of. I knew there was no business traveler competition on this leg either. I called United the morning of the flight asking why none of us had cleared yet. Long story short, 3 of the 5 ended up cleared, but even that didn’t happen until minutes before boarding. I’d rather know 24 hours before if I have multiple people on an itinerary that I’m trying to clear. 1K desk never has any idea, it’s frustrating (#firstworldproblem).

Same here.

I find it interesting where people live kind of determines their airline of choice.

Chicago area people seem to be United fliers.  Elsewhere is usually another carrier.

warriorchick

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #366 on: October 04, 2019, 09:13:27 AM »
Same here.

I find it interesting where people live kind of determines their airline of choice.

Chicago area people seem to be United fliers.  Elsewhere is usually another carrier.

Yeah, it's so crazy that people tend to fly the airline that has a hub at the airport closest to their house....   ;)

However, I am one of those moron SWA flyers, so what do I know?
Have some patience, FFS.

JWags85

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #367 on: October 04, 2019, 09:27:14 AM »
Same here.

I find it interesting where people live kind of determines their airline of choice.

Chicago area people seem to be United fliers.  Elsewhere is usually another carrier.

Cause when you stick to your airline for status and perks, and that airline isn't hubbed near you, every trip is a connection nightmare.  One of my friends was United 1MM by his late 20s.  Very loyal, raved about them, almost aggressively pro-United.  He moved to Charlotte for work about 5 years ago.  He lasted 2.5, once he realized the job was long term, before switching begrudgingly to American cause he missed direct flights and ease of travel on a regular basis, instead of flying to IAD/EWR/ORD for basically every flight.

And oh the sensitive SWA fliers, yay!  Again, its a fantastic airline for the kind of traveler it caters to.  If you fly enough to have decent status and have any international travel needs (or just enjoy getting to the airport late as possible for varieties of reason), its just not an ideal option.  But yet, SWA loyalists still call you a snob and a slave to legacy carriers.

jsglow

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #368 on: October 04, 2019, 09:40:56 AM »

And oh the sensitive SWA fliers, yay!  Again, its a fantastic airline for the kind of traveler it caters to.  If you fly enough to have decent status and have any international travel needs (or just enjoy getting to the airport late as possible for varieties of reason), its just not an ideal option.  But yet, SWA loyalists still call you a snob and a slave to legacy carriers.

I think that's the key.  It serves a particular niche very well.  Others, not so much.  For us relocating on flexible schedules back and forth between our two domestic homes it is absolutely perfect.

warriorchick

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #369 on: October 04, 2019, 09:42:31 AM »


And oh the sensitive SWA fliers, yay!  Again, its a fantastic airline for the kind of traveler it caters to.  If you fly enough to have decent status and have any international travel needs (or just enjoy getting to the airport late as possible for varieties of reason), its just not an ideal option.  But yet, SWA loyalists still call you a snob and a slave to legacy carriers.

Goodness, I didn't realize I would need teal.

I have never called people who don't fly SWA snobs.  It's a choice, just like anything else.  Who I do take issue with (and I have run into a number of them) are people who have never flown SWA and denigrate it based on Jay Leno jokes.  I know Chicago-area natives (mostly North Short types) who have not been to Midway in decades, and wouldn't fly out of that "filthy old place", and were surprised to learn from me that it has been completely renovated since the '80's.  It's significantly nicer than many parts of O'Hare.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 09:44:59 AM by warriorchick »
Have some patience, FFS.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #370 on: October 04, 2019, 09:43:27 AM »
Cause when you stick to your airline for status and perks, and that airline isn't hubbed near you, every trip is a connection nightmare.  One of my friends was United 1MM by his late 20s.  Very loyal, raved about them, almost aggressively pro-United.  He moved to Charlotte for work about 5 years ago.  He lasted 2.5, once he realized the job was long term, before switching begrudgingly to American cause he missed direct flights and ease of travel on a regular basis, instead of flying to IAD/EWR/ORD for basically every flight.

And oh the sensitive SWA fliers, yay!  Again, its a fantastic airline for the kind of traveler it caters to.  If you fly enough to have decent status and have any international travel needs (or just enjoy getting to the airport late as possible for varieties of reason), its just not an ideal option.  But yet, SWA loyalists still call you a snob and a slave to legacy carriers.

That's why I don't fly out of Hartford often.  LaGuardia as big of a construction mess as it is, is only another 15 minutes more drive from my home than Hartford and always has multiple daily direct flights to where I'm going. 
Other than when I have to visit my company's big customer in Lincoln, NE which you just can't get there from anywhere not named Minneapolis or Chicago?

dgies9156

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #371 on: October 04, 2019, 11:46:25 AM »
I bode no ill will towards the airlines.  They are (almost all) horrible companies, run by idiots, staffed by drones and they don't care at all about customers.  ONE MUST ACCEPT THIS and find a way to get what one wants regardless of loyalty and points and miles and all of that. 

Anyone who thinks that airline "status"  will get you anything in 5-10 years is kidding themselves.

Hotels - some chains at least - are headed the same way, but you can still play it while there's a game to play. Probably 10-15 more years before the same scenario exists as exists now with air travel.  By then I'll be done traveling and won't care anymore anyway.

Brother Fan, I beg to differ. There is nothing that you want from an airline that you can't get by paying for it. Or bringing it on if it is a food matter.

The problem we have -- especially those of us who traveled in the days before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 -- is that we have a romanticized notion of what air travel is. We oldsters remember the days when flight attendants waited on a cabin of 100 people head-to-toe in 1.5 hours between Chicago and New York. Hell, United used to have a Sud Aviation Caravelle (an early French plane similar to a DC9-10) that was all first class and all male. The flight attendants absolutely hated that flight. You can guess why!

Back in the mid-1970s, Douglas Souter, who was then an aide to Senator Kennedy, got roundly berated for spending time on airline matters. "Well never be able to afford to fly," a woman said. "That's the problem we're trying to fix," said Souter.

Before 1978, air travel was highly regulated and extremely expensive. Relatively few people could afford it and too often, it was a once in a lifetime experience. The airlines had both the revenue and the desire to make it special which, for the most part, they did.

Today, the airlines are giving people what they want. The cheap fares we cherish come with a very high price -- customer discomfort, expensive amenities (i.e., baggage fees and snack boxes) and lack of ground support due to automation. Planes are fuller because to get profit margins, airlines have to jam every possible ounce of passenger and freight on to a plane. That's what we said we wanted and the geniuses at the airlines business are giving it to us. It's how markets work!

As a side not, one of my favorite stories was a 1960s United Airlines "take me along" promotion, in which the airline did a reduced fare (with CAB approval) for husbands to take their wives on business trips. It was so rare for wives to fly that this was thought to be critical to building awareness. As a side benefit, "take me along" cut down on customer misbehavior with flight attendants on the planes.

After the trip, United sent roses to the "take me along" wives, thanking them for flying United. Not long afterward, there was a surge in divorces among United Airlines "take me along" men. True story.. want to guess why... LOL!!@!




HouWarrior

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #372 on: October 04, 2019, 12:07:59 PM »
Goodness, I didn't realize I would need teal.

I have never called people who don't fly SWA snobs.  It's a choice, just like anything else.  Who I do take issue with (and I have run into a number of them) are people who have never flown SWA and denigrate it based on Jay Leno jokes.  I know Chicago-area natives (mostly North Short types) who have not been to Midway in decades, and wouldn't fly out of that "filthy old place", and were surprised to learn from me that it has been completely renovated since the '80's.  It's significantly nicer than many parts of O'Hare.
I have your back...totally.

SWA is the legend. Back when airlines and rates remained high due to post WW2 interstate regulation schemes....lil ol SWA flew INTRAstate within Texas only....no interstate regulation or rate problems. It was a revolution

Mainly....They were able to reduce fares so very dramatically to the point where the entire US domestic industry eventually conceded to the Reagan era airline deregulation. A key reason all air fares dropped since the 70s is the pioneering of the rate busting intrastate carrier SWA.

Admittedly, ...Other changes like SWA open seating, bags fly free, no classes, no lounges, etc have been less adopted...the rest still sell these as differentiators. Apparently even claiming a snob appeal to keeping these vintage features.

Non SWA flyers owe much to SWA for their comparatively cheap commonly used air travel today...few remember the 50s to 70s when air travel was controlled, restricted,expensive and used by a relative few....those were actually the days when all air travel was for snobs
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HouWarrior

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #373 on: October 04, 2019, 12:23:35 PM »
Brother Fan, I beg to differ. There is nothing that you want from an airline that you can't get by paying for it. Or bringing it on if it is a food matter.

The problem we have -- especially those of us who traveled in the days before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 -- is that we have a romanticized notion of what air travel is. We oldsters remember the days when flight attendants waited on a cabin of 100 people head-to-toe in 1.5 hours between Chicago and New York. Hell, United used to have a Sud Aviation Caravelle (an early French plane similar to a DC9-10) that was all first class and all male. The flight attendants absolutely hated that flight. You can guess why!

Back in the mid-1970s, Douglas Souter, who was then an aide to Senator Kennedy, got roundly berated for spending time on airline matters. "Well never be able to afford to fly," a woman said. "That's the problem we're trying to fix," said Souter.

Before 1978, air travel was highly regulated and extremely expensive. Relatively few people could afford it and too often, it was a once in a lifetime experience. The airlines had both the revenue and the desire to make it special which, for the most part, they did.

Today, the airlines are giving people what they want. The cheap fares we cherish come with a very high price -- customer discomfort, expensive amenities (i.e., baggage fees and snack boxes) and lack of ground support due to automation. Planes are fuller because to get profit margins, airlines have to jam every possible ounce of passenger and freight on to a plane. That's what we said we wanted and the geniuses at the airlines business are giving it to us. It's how markets work!

As a side not, one of my favorite stories was a 1960s United Airlines "take me along" promotion, in which the airline did a reduced fare (with CAB approval) for husbands to take their wives on business trips. It was so rare for wives to fly that this was thought to be critical to building awareness. As a side benefit, "take me along" cut down on customer misbehavior with flight attendants on the planes.

After the trip, United sent roses to the "take me along" wives, thanking them for flying United. Not long afterward, there was a surge in divorces among United Airlines "take me along" men. True story.. want to guess why... LOL!!@!
Thanks for this. I was typing my prior post at the same time as you....two old farts remembering air travel before deregulation.
The early years after 1978 saw it share of upheavals, too....many airlines with multiple bankruptcies, union and pension busting, route and hub battles, etc
Its good that all now can fly...but boy it was a journey reaching this point.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread
« Reply #374 on: October 04, 2019, 12:44:48 PM »
Brother Fan, I beg to differ. There is nothing that you want from an airline that you can't get by paying for it. Or bringing it on if it is a food matter.

The problem we have -- especially those of us who traveled in the days before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 -- is that we have a romanticized notion of what air travel is. We oldsters remember the days when flight attendants waited on a cabin of 100 people head-to-toe in 1.5 hours between Chicago and New York. Hell, United used to have a Sud Aviation Caravelle (an early French plane similar to a DC9-10) that was all first class and all male. The flight attendants absolutely hated that flight. You can guess why!

Back in the mid-1970s, Douglas Souter, who was then an aide to Senator Kennedy, got roundly berated for spending time on airline matters. "Well never be able to afford to fly," a woman said. "That's the problem we're trying to fix," said Souter.

Before 1978, air travel was highly regulated and extremely expensive. Relatively few people could afford it and too often, it was a once in a lifetime experience. The airlines had both the revenue and the desire to make it special which, for the most part, they did.

Today, the airlines are giving people what they want. The cheap fares we cherish come with a very high price -- customer discomfort, expensive amenities (i.e., baggage fees and snack boxes) and lack of ground support due to automation. Planes are fuller because to get profit margins, airlines have to jam every possible ounce of passenger and freight on to a plane. That's what we said we wanted and the geniuses at the airlines business are giving it to us. It's how markets work!

As a side not, one of my favorite stories was a 1960s United Airlines "take me along" promotion, in which the airline did a reduced fare (with CAB approval) for husbands to take their wives on business trips. It was so rare for wives to fly that this was thought to be critical to building awareness. As a side benefit, "take me along" cut down on customer misbehavior with flight attendants on the planes.

After the trip, United sent roses to the "take me along" wives, thanking them for flying United. Not long afterward, there was a surge in divorces among United Airlines "take me along" men. True story.. want to guess why... LOL!!@!

Inquisitive on my birth year, I just finished reading this book.

1969: The Year Everything Changed
by Rob Kirkpatrick

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6139711-1969

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1969-rob-kirkpatrick/1101009335#/

One of the many 1969 firsts was the first flight of the Boeing 747 which completely changed air travel going forward.

 

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