More games at the Al

[GOO]

Those who are so strongly against an on campus facility don't fully understand the positive financials with both the on campus facility and entertainment center and also the negative implications, both financial and otherwise, of the new Bucks arena, as it relates to MU. Slick and the gang brought cases of K-Y with them from NY.

Not, what I heard.  I heard that MU had to bring their own K-Y and there wasn't enough to go around.  I hope the lesson has been learned for our next round of negotiations and we have a plan B, besides bringing extra K-Y.

[Floorslapper]

Pro-Thunderdome Counterarguments:

"Waste of Money/Should be Spent Elsewhere" Sentiment (i.e. Ma's Opposition)

This one is simple... the capital is either there, or it's not.

In fundraising there are typically three pools of money you can go after: 1) "earmarked," i.e. the amount that people set aside for a given period that they will donate regardless, 2) "stretch," i.e. the amount in excess of earmarked that people are willing to give for special projects (capital campaigns) or needs (natural disasters), and 3) "shadow," i.e. an indefinite amount that people are willing to donate to a specific project (or very narrow band of potential projects).

Shadow money is typically not even ascertainable.  For example, consider a hypothetical where an MU benefactor named Larcus Memonis is willing to donate $20M to an on-campus arena effort... the second he announces that, if MU has no plans or intent to build an arena, MU Advancement is going to be all over him trying to convince him to spend it on something else.  So Larcus keeps his mouth shut, but as soon as MU announces the plans and shows the Thunderdome renderings, Larcus - and all of his other high$ benefactor brethren - won't be able to write their checks fast enough.

It's a bit of a cat and mouse game, because MU can't plan for an arena without knowing if there's enough backing, and the backers are going to play close to the vest until plans are announced.

"There's No Room"

There's always room.  Have you seen Marquette's campus lately?  It isn't exactly Lincoln Park now, is it?  If MU can come up with the coin to build the Thunderdome's physical structure, MU is going to find the coin for the land.  Google Earth is your friend... be creative.

"The FoxHole/Chaluparena is Right Down the Street"

Yes, but for how long?  No seriously, how long?

Part of being a world class organization means being in control of your own destiny.  The landscape has changed... the confluence of factors that has made MU comfortable simply being a tenant at the BC is gone.  History.  Sayonara.  No longer is MU dealing with a three-way partnership between a philanthropic, locally-focused NBA owner, stadium district and City... you want rights at the FoxHole, meet the gatekeepers: Lasry and Edens.  If anyone needs an example of how that new relationship between the Bucks and MU is going to work out, look no further than their joint-sponsored sports medicine/athletics research center partnership.  Didn't work out as well as we thought, did it.

Point being, MU has no right, no entitlement to the new arena.  Unlike before, the Bucks are now in complete control of any sub-tenancy at the FoxHole... even in the best case scenario where the Bucks prosper and become deeply entrenched into Milwaukee such that Edens and Lasry decide to keep them here, they could find themselves in a situation where they just tell MU to go pound sand.  And the worst case is the Bucks skip town (much more likely), in which case....

"MU Can Negotiate a Better Deal (if the Bucks skip town)"

Does MU really want to be the primary tenant at an NBA facility 20 years from now?  Should they be?  Can they afford to be?

How many suppliers has Wal-Mart put out of business because they drove their prices so low that their suppliers' models became unsustainable?  Likewise, if a tenant takes advantage of a landlord such that the landlord is losing money, the landlord isn't going to be the landlord very long, let alone put money into basic repairs and maintenance.  This is what happened between the Bucks and BC for many years... the Bucks negotiated their rent so low that the WCD couldn't afford to keep up with basic maintenance until the point where walls literally started cracking and critical equipment was failing.  So as a sub-tenant MU could leverage a Bucks departure with the stadium district into better lease terms at the FoxHole, which will turn the building a financial (and perhaps structural) time-bomb, or MU could pay more money to keep the FoxHole sustainable.

If the Bucks leave town in 20 years, MU would be no better off than if Edens and Lasry moved the team to Seattle a couple years back and MU was today stuck with the BC as it falls apart.

"Where's the Money Going to Come From"

Capital comes from donations and bonds.  Maybe some TIF money.  Who knows?  Multiple ways to skin the cat

Operating costs come from elsewhere.  As others surmised... turn this into something more than an arena, and the arena part might just pay for itself.  Simply figure out how to pay for everything else, and you're there.

Let me say that again.... the arena can pay for itself.  Not saying it will pay for itself, but if it can, you build it.

"Will I Get Tickets?  What About STH's?"

I'll be honest... this is the keystone to the whole project.  Not the fundraising, not the Bucks' destiny, not the hotel.... how do you balance supply with demand without alienating any portion of your (relatively) small alumni base.  If you have 10k+ STH's today, you're going to have even more with a brand new on-campus arena.  And it's right around that 10k capacity mark that marginal costs start rising exponentially.  The sweet spot seems to be right around 9k-10k or so... anything more than that and you're going to have to build a second deck, and that's how a $60M arena can rise to $100M very quickly.

So either you build small and deal with the angst, or you wait for demand to wane to the point where nobody will feel bad.  Neither seems like a real good idea.

Well done. Good analysis.

Building an on-campus arena is, by no means necessary. However, being prepared and capable to potentially do so - three to four years from now - when lease renegotiations with Bucks would likely be starting in earnest, would be advisable.

MU has NO leverage at this point with the Bucks. Lasry and Edens are NOT Herb Kohl. They will extract every single possible dollar out of MU on a renewal. MU only has leverage if it is prepared, capable, and able to move forward on its own with building an on-campus arena.

Men’s basketball is hugely important to the university. You protect it, and secure it at nearly all costs. I’d advise raising the funds/seeking pledges for an on campus arena over the next three years. Should the Bucks not give MU a good/fair long-term deal, they then walk and build their own on campus arena.

[jsglow]

You guys are all ignoring another alternative because it's not what any of us want. There is a scenario where MU says hoops is important but not THAT important. Look,  I don't see that happening but there are always options.  Carry on.

[Goose]

glow

I have pointed that alternative out for six years.

[MUClassof2039]

Just curious, for those who would like an on campus arena, what current arenas would you like the on campus arena to be modeled after? It seems like there is a fine balance between creating a great atmosphere and home court advantage while also trying to build a stadium with modern & High-Tech amenities. A place like Pinnacle Bank Arena where Nebraska plays is probably bigger than anything MU would build on campus, but is designed more like an NBA arena. Personally, if we build on campus I would love something similar to Smith Spectrum where Utah State plays, add suites to the top and that place would be rocking. Michigan has an arena that would be perfect in size for MU, the Crisler Center holds 13,700.

Curious for everyone's thoughts on what the ideal on campus arena would look like.

[Litehouse]

You guys are all ignoring another alternative because it's not what any of us want. There is a scenario where MU says hoops is important but not THAT important. Look,  I don't see that happening but there are always options.  Carry on.

I believe that's called a SLU.

[Coleman]

Just curious, for those who would like an on campus arena, what current arenas would you like the on campus arena to be modeled after? It seems like there is a fine balance between creating a great atmosphere and home court advantage while also trying to build a stadium with modern & High-Tech amenities. A place like Pinnacle Bank Arena where Nebraska plays is probably bigger than anything MU would build on campus, but is designed more like an NBA arena. Personally, if we build on campus I would love something similar to Smith Spectrum where Utah State plays, add suites to the top and that place would be rocking. Michigan has an arena that would be perfect in size for MU, the Crisler Center holds 13,700.

Curious for everyone's thoughts on what the ideal on campus arena would look like.

12,000 seats, give or take. DePaul's Wintrust, Chaifetz Arena at SLU or Cintas Center at Xavier would be decent comparables.

Small upper deck and 15-20 luxury boxes. Able to convert to ice for the Admirals/MU hockey.

[MUClassof2039]

Any stadiums with a single bowl top to bottom behind the baskets and two tier seating split by boxes/suites on the sidelines? Not an architect so not sure if it is even possible with sight lines, but that would seem to allow for atmosphere as well as luxury features.

[Coleman]

Any stadiums with a single bowl top to bottom behind the baskets and two tier seating split by boxes/suites on the sidelines? Not an architect so not sure if it is even possible with sight lines, but that would seem to allow for atmosphere as well as luxury features.

Wintrust is actually sort of like that, on one side

Instead of an upper deck on one side they have two rows of luxury suites. It actually works pretty nicely.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Benny's on this. 

The only team in Milwaukee the Bucks needed is Marquette. Right off the bat they told the Admirals to stick it. Not for just our dates but for NCAA events as MU has to sponsor and run them under rules (UWM could yet they not realistically as the NCAA would likely reject the bid). 

MU also has major roots with potential sponsors.  NML, Manpower, Camping World, MillerCoors, Harley, AutoZone, Cree, Palermo's, etc. And others that the Bucks have also already alienated like Foxconn and Aurora.  Many of these have/will have a growing need for convention/meeting space (NML who just significantly expanded their headquarters has major global conferences already in MKE).

The space is there on the South. MU's property on Michigan. Milwaukee's vacant lot across from the Hilton and the Convention Center. 

On the north, after the Mecca is knocked down, the whole convention center can be expanded to the Bucks new conference center hotel and Arena/outdoor plaza.  The north and south are now connected.

MU, Admirals, Wave and UWM on the South.  Bucks, concerts, events on the north.  MU can play major games in the Bucks arena.  UWM can play smaller games on campus. Theater district on the east. Mixed use on the West.

[Litehouse]

Wait, we have to share this hypothetical new place with UWM?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wait, we have to share this hypothetical new place with UWM?

If by share, you mean they have to pay us a lot of money to play some of their bigger games in our building, then yes.

[WarhawkWarrior]

I need a little of the weed you are all smokin

[TallTitan34]

Any idea what happens to the Bradley Center scoreboard?

In its current configuration it’s probably too big for the AL, but if you took off the top two ribbons and bottom ribbon it might be a pretty nice fit. Although it may be too low for volleyball.

I just wish there was something there to see replays on. At Madness, they often put projector screens in the corners which is nice.

[MU82]

Any idea what happens to the Bradley Center scoreboard?

Gonna be hung in the tree outside my house.

[Litehouse]

Any idea what happens to the Bradley Center scoreboard?

There was an article in the Journal sentinel about how everything is being sold off at the BC.  The scoreboard is being broken down and sold in smaller pieces.

[TallTitan34]

The scoreboard is being broken down and sold in smaller pieces.

Perfect for the AL!

[warriorchick]

Perfect for the AL!

They could easily replace the big scoreboard on the South end with a monitor.

It's too bad you guys insulted the Foxconn dudes - we probably could have score a free one from them.

[4everwarriors]

Gonna be hung in the tree outside my house.

Knew Xmas ornament, aina?

[DienerTime34]

Marquette should leverage the naming rights that are still available for the new stadium. I read in the MKE Biz Journal there's a scenario where it opens without naming rights attached. That means the Bucks are losing the $7-10 million per year they expected for that. Go back in, name it the Marquette University Arena, and get an extension on the lease at a more profitable cost as part of the naming rights negotiations.

[Coleman]

Any idea what happens to the Bradley Center scoreboard?

In its current configuration it’s probably too big for the AL, but if you took off the top two ribbons and bottom ribbon it might be a pretty nice fit. Although it may be too low for volleyball.

I just wish there was something there to see replays on. At Madness, they often put projector screens in the corners which is nice.

It will probably get sold to whoever is willing to pay the most for it, and I doubt that will be Marquette.

[Coleman]

Marquette should leverage the naming rights that are still available for the new stadium. I read in the MKE Biz Journal there's a scenario where it opens without naming rights attached. That means the Bucks are losing the $7-10 million per year they expected for that. Go back in, name it the Marquette University Arena, and get an extension on the lease at a more profitable cost as part of the naming rights negotiations.

I like it.

[connie]

So, I haven't read the whole thread, but I read Benny's post, which was excellent, but seems to be leaving out a key point/question ... would yet another arena in downtown (ish) Milwaukee, aka the 39th largest metro market in the U.S., be able to draw enough events to make it financially sustainable?
I'm very skeptical of that. It's notoriously difficult to run an arena at a profit, and unlike a lot of public venues, MU wouldn't have the luxury of government subsidies to fall back on when the arena loses money.

Also, why would the Bucks tell MU to pound sand? It's 20+ guaranteed dates every year. Again, making money off an arena can be hard, and they'd be foolish to turn away that kind of guarantee.

This has been brought up, but never answered.  Figure you lose all <5000 attendee events to the numerous other smaller venues in the city or the Al.  You won't get anything where the draw is expected to be over your max capacity to the new arena, which now will also fight you for the high end of the lesser events.  You are still competing with the current Panther Arena for the @ 7-10k events.  Since the Admirals, Wave (if they survive) and UWM are bound there and probably want to stay where they are with the current and hoped for amenities nearby the arena, and I don't know if MU wants to host the circus or truck pulls, I doubt there are enough revenue generating events to come close to using the venue over 50 times a year, and that number may be very generous.  Again it is fun to dream, and I have no problem looking at the idea just in case some rich person drops a wad of cash for the purpose, but as it stands nothing about this seems realistic.

[MUfan12]

Heard that naming rights are done and will be announced soon. Possibly as early as next week.

[cheebs09]

Heard that naming rights are done and will be announced soon. Possibly as early as next week.

Probably someone who was scalping NIT tickets.