NIT . . . too early?

[Goose]

Warriorfan

I have far too much respect for the original team your referenced to have in same discussion with this squad. There are other teams from our past that would be better historic fit with this group.

[Goose]

DJOver

I loved that win last season against 'nova and enjoyed every second of it. That said, that one win does not equate to real progress for a program over a four year period.

As for biggest regular season win in program history, go and read your history books. Just because they beat #1 does not make it best regular season win in history. I would think off the top of my head, that there might have been 4-5 wins 41 years ago which led to biggest win in program history. Oh well, another example of how little I know.

[muguru]

Take away the nova win. Of coarse you would discredit the best regular season win in program history.

Goose's point is...and I agree with him...that has been the signature moment of the Wojo era thus far...a win over #1. 4 years, and that's the best we have..think about that for a moment..one game, that's been Wojo's "one shining moment". Until last night, he hadn't even won 3 Big East games in a row...in 4 years...the ONLY program in the Big East that hadn't. And if you want to get technical, they still haven't won 3 regular season BE games in a row...in 4 years. Even DePaul has done that.

[Its DJOver]

DJOver

I loved that win last season against 'nova and enjoyed every second of it. That said, that one win does not equate to real progress for a program over a four year period.

As for biggest regular season win in program history, go and read your history books. Just because they beat #1 does not make it best regular season win in history. I would think off the top of my head, that there might have been 4-5 wins 41 years ago which led to biggest win in program history. Oh well, another example of how little I know.

Homer would disagree.

I assume you're talking about the national championship game, which is why I said regular season.

Also, I was not even close to being born 41 years ago so forgive me for not being present, or having detailed knowledge of games before my birth.

[jaygall31]

Not disagreeing about nova last year, but Wade over Cincy in '03 would be in Discussion. Or winning BIG EAST title as well.

[Its DJOver]

Goose's point is...and I agree with him...that has been the signature moment of the Wojo era thus far...a win over #1. 4 years, and that's the best we have..think about that for a moment..one game, that's been Wojo's "one shining moment". Until last night, he hadn't even won 3 Big East games in a row...in 4 years...the ONLY program in the Big East that hadn't. And if you want to get technical, they still haven't won 3 regular season BE games in a row...in 4 years. Even DePaul has done that.

Throwing arbitrary numbers into the mix, good call. How about two other top 15 wins on the road, or landing the first all American since doc. I agree that the tourney success hasn't  been there yet, but if it doesn't come next year, I have openly said thay I will be on the fire wojo train with you and willie.

[Goose]

DJOver

I hope Homer reads your last post. He will laugh his ass off knowing someone bought into his calling it best regular season win in program history. Homer rocks, but far from program historian. On paper you could argue being only time beating #1 makes it is the best, but anyone with fxckin brain knows better than that.
You made my night by using Homer as you barometer. Again, big Homer fan, but many in here have forgotten more MU ball than Homer knows.

[fjm]

Dayton is part of the NCAA tourney Guru.

Guru is al like "I'm never eating ice cream again. Except for chocolate or vanilla. Those two don't count".

[Its DJOver]

DJOver

I hope Homer reads your last post. He will laugh his ass off knowing someone bought into his calling it best regular season win in program history. Homer rocks, but far from program historian. On paper you could argue being only time beating #1 makes it is the best, but anyone with fxckin brain knows better than that.
You made my night by using Homer as you barometer. Again, big Homer fan, but many in here have forgotten more MU ball than Homer knows.

Ok, you spent your entire post insulting me and homer, but failed to point out a better win, other than the national championship game in 77. As I pointed out I wasn't even close to being conceived when MU won the title, so please educate me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

A lot of role player talent on a good team returning, not great talent. To get this crew to be a top 15 program next season would take a coaching effort that we have not seen from Wojo yet. So, either guys have been holding back or Wojo has been laying in the weeds waiting for next season, I fully expect similar results next season. Howard is the best talent returning and he will miss Rowsey the most. PG makes the world go round and we do not have one.

I believe you had the same concerns after Ellenson left. Not good talent coming back.

Sam Hauser had one of the best offensive seasons not just in MU history but in Big East history. Markus Howard was 2nd Team All Big East. Neither are role players.

Theo, Jamal, and Greg are freshmen, I'm not ready to declare any of them role players yet. I think all three have potential.

Matt and Sacar are role players but those are solid role players to have.

Harry and Eke are probably role players but I'm not 100% sure we know what we have in them yet.

I also don't expect top 15 next season. I'm thinking more top 30 at this point. May change depending on how the rest of the spring plays out.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Listen son, I have been an MU fan longer than you have been alive...I've forgotten more about MU basketball then you will ever know. But you typify your generation..I see it everywhere, in the work place, on the athletic fields etc..mediocre is good enough. It's sad.

Al Mcguire, upon Kentucky coach Adolph Rupp addressing him as "son"....

"Mr Rupp, please refrain from calling me "son", unless you plan on including me in your last will and testament."

[f/k/a humanlung]

Everyone, until a Wojo team learns to play defense...hell...a little defense...we should get used to the bubble watch.  As much as it sucked watching VT choke against ND, the defensive intensity (let's leave the offense out of the discussion for now) was refreshing to see.

Rowsey was fun to watch on "O" but his "D" was painful.  Sam has no lateral movement.  He looks like he is stuck in wet cement an Nova took full advantage.  I don't even want to go into rebounding.  To have the other team repeatedly grab offensive rebounds off FREE THROWS is unbelievable and inexcusable.  Al used to say that the only thing that can be controlled in the game is defensive effort.  MU needs a remedial class in that line of thought.

And before everyone jumps on me for being new or a troll, I had a different screen name with over 3000 posts.  Just haven't posted all season and forgot all my login info... 

[Its DJOver]

Everyone, until a Wojo team learns to play defense...hell...a little defense...we should get used to the bubble watch.  As much as it sucked watching VT choke against ND, the defensive intensity (let's leave the offense out of the discussion for now) was refreshing to see.

Rowsey was fun to watch on "O" but his "D" was painful.  Sam has no lateral movement.  He looks like he is stuck in wet cement an Nova took full advantage.  I don't even want to go into rebounding.  To have the other team repeatedly grab offensive rebounds off FREE THROWS is unbelievable and inexcusable.  Al used to say that the only thing that can be controlled in the game is defensive effort.  MU needs a remedial class in that line of thought.

And before everyone jumps on me for being new or a troll, I had a different screen name with over 3000 posts.  Just haven't posted all season and forgot all my login info... 

In defense of Sam, he is going under knife as soon as the season is over to fix his hip. Rebounding is a huge issue. I'm hoping that ed and hopefully an improved harry will help that. Not a for sure thing. But betting on ed next year is a safer bet than harry this year.

[brewcity77]

People in this thread would've fired Al McGuire and Kevin O'Neill. Neither made their first tournament until year 4. And I know the BS counter argument..."it was different, there was optimism around the program." Well there's optimism around the program now! Why are people excited for next year? Because we return the most prolific sophomore scorer in school history. Because we return 88% of a possible Tournament roster. Because we add a 5-star recruit. Because we add a proven low post scorer and rebounder.

If next year proves to be a bust, then it's on Wojo and it's time to start considering moving on. But if you're oblivious to the multitude of reasons for optimism for next year's team, well I suppose it's no surprise you'd say "I forgot more about basketball than you'll ever know" because clearly you forgot everything you ever knew about the sport.

If it's a bust, feel free to mock everyone else and revel in Wojo's failure, but acting like you wouldn't have fired Al and Kevin is blind revisionist BS. The reasons for optimism are there if you pull your head out of the sand long enough to look at the roster.

[bilsu]

yeti

I actually very much respect guru's love of MU ball and his appreciation of it's history. He is valued poster and not encouraging or discouraging him.

As for my being bearish on next season, I would say I am neutral. I do not believe the program has upper level talent this year and will not next year. If you know a thing about ball, MU ball is light years away from 'nova talent level. I believe we have another potential bubble year type of talent next season.

[/b]
Three additional games in NIT may result in both Rowsey and Howard breaking MU's single season scoring record. That shows how unbalanced this team is. Outside of Rowsey, Howard and Sam there is no one on this team that would have of seen significant playing time at Villanova or Xavier.

[Goose]

DJOver

I have offered way too much free education via scoop over the years and am too tired to take the time needed to educate you. In addition, I find many of your posts/replies to be disrespectful and I will leave my mentoring of ball to those I believe have a basic understanding of the program/sport and have high desire to grow in knowledge. Since I do not find you to fall into that group, Google whatever you want to know.

[ATL MU Warrior]

DJOver

I have offered way too much free education via scoop over the years and am too tired to take the time needed to educate you. In addition, I find many of your posts/replies to be disrespectful and I will leave my mentoring of ball to those I believe have a basic understanding of the program/sport and have high desire to grow in knowledge. Since I do not find you to fall into that group, Google whatever you want to know.

lol

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Little to no progress???
4-14
8-10
10-8
9-9 with the same overall record and better rpi.
You can make the argument that we've regressed this year (although I would disagree) but no progress. You gotta be kidding me.

I think Wojo's tenure qualifies.

[Its DJOver]

DJOver

I have offered way too much free education via scoop over the years and am too tired to take the time needed to educate you. In addition, I find many of your posts/replies to be disrespectful and I will leave my mentoring of ball to those I believe have a basic understanding of the program/sport and have high desire to grow in knowledge. Since I do not find you to fall into that group, Google whatever you want to know.

Sticking to your guns without providing any new facts. I'll give you credit, you're consistent.

[CTWarrior]

Sticking to your guns without providing any new facts. I'll give you credit, you're consistent.

Why do you think it is the greatest regular season win in MU history?  Because it allowed us to sneak into the NCAA tournament and get trounced in the first round?  In 1977 with one less win leading to the tournament selection there is a good chance we would not have gotten into the tournament and not have our National Championship.  I think that all of those wins were probably more important (greater) regular season wins.

I remember Hank Raymonds saying after beating a top 10 Missouri team on the road (The Sunvold/Stipanovich Missouri team) that that was the most important win in MU history.  To each his own, but I'm with Goose on this one.  Great night that put a smile on my face for a week, but significance matters, and in the grand scheme of things, that win was not all that significant in the long run.

[Its DJOver]

Why do you think it is the greatest regular season win in MU history?  Because it allowed us to sneak into the NCAA tournament and get trounced in the first round?  In 1977 with one less win leading to the tournament selection there is a good chance we would not have gotten into the tournament and not have our National Championship.  I think that all of those wins were probably more important (greater) regular season wins.

I remember Hank Raymonds saying after beating a top 10 Missouri team on the road (The Sunvold/Stipanovich Missouri team) that that was the most important win in MU history.  To each his own, but I'm with Goose on this one.  Great night that put a smile on my face for a week, but significance matters, and in the grand scheme of things, that win was not all that significant in the long run.

My opinion is that it is the greatest regular season win. You and goose obviously disagree . Goose even said that anyone with a brain would disagree. I asked him to name better wins, he couldn't,  or refused to. You have. unfortunately I wasn't around for any of the hank era so I can't compare. Why do you think Missouri on the road is better? Actually curious because I wasn't around yet.

[Floorslapper]

I also don't expect top 15 next season. I'm thinking more top 30 at this point. May change depending on how the rest of the spring plays out.

Sounds like you are already downshifting expectations for next year, at least as compared to the "golden power point."  Top 30 seems a far cry from a "high NCAA seed."  Speaking of which, did you participate in Wojo's interview?  Curious where you got access to the "golden power point?"

75
Hangin' at the Al / Re: So who's head explodes if we lose to Depaul tonight?
« on: March 07, 2018, 04:44:06 PM »
Quote from: muguru on March 07, 2018, 03:04:34 PM
Who's expectations?? It's okay to you that his signature moment in 4 years is a win against #1?? That is record vs the dregs of the league, is way worse than it should be?? That his teams have been nothing but inconsistent(never winning 3 BE games in a row even). How is any of that, okay??

The expectations of the golden power point:

Year 1: Field a team
Year 2: Get Better
Year 3: Make the NCAA
Year 4: Weather the graduations,  still make the postseason
Year 5: High NCAA seed
Year 6: Compete for BEast crown,  legitimate final four contender
Year 7+: Sustained success

So it was written. So it shall be

[Goose]

CTWarrior

DJO has no idea, but Homer has said it was best regular season win in school history a thousand times on the radio. Yes, first time ever beating #1 in regular season, but not a top ten significant regular season win IMO. I would put beating UConn in first BE way ahead of the 'nova win and that is not top 5 IMO

[Goose]

DJOver

If you ever took the time to read the posts, especially from posters who can walk and chew gum, most of the history has been discussed on here to death. I would think off top of my head that needing to run the board on the road in '77 to get a bid that possibly there might be better win in that stretch.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Top 30 is theoretically between a 1-8 seed. Other places I have posted my expectations I have said 7 seed or higher. No downgrading here.