NIT . . . too early?

[Dr. Blackheart]

My opinion is that it is the greatest regular season win. You and goose obviously disagree . Goose even said that anyone with a brain would disagree. I asked him to name better wins, he couldn't,  or refused to. You have. unfortunately I wasn't around for any of the hank era so I can't compare. Why do you think Missouri on the road is better? Actually curious because I wasn't around yet.

Let's start with a recent one: 2013.  This was way better. How MU and Georgetown have fallen. The conference needs them back.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/030913aaa.html

[Goose]

Dr.

DJOover was alive for that win, but unable to storm the court in celebration. Importance of wins goes hand in hand with overall team success. Beating 'nova was fun and could have been something to build on. Unfortunately it was just fun.

[D'Lo Brown]

I believe you had the same concerns after Ellenson left. Not good talent coming back.

Sam Hauser had one of the best offensive seasons not just in MU history but in Big East history. Markus Howard was 2nd Team All Big East. Neither are role players.

Theo, Jamal, and Greg are freshmen, I'm not ready to declare any of them role players yet. I think all three have potential.

Matt and Sacar are role players but those are solid role players to have.

Harry and Eke are probably role players but I'm not 100% sure we know what we have in them yet.

I also don't expect top 15 next season. I'm thinking more top 30 at this point. May change depending on how the rest of the spring plays out.

I personally feel that Sacar has grown into more than a role player, so I would just disagree on that one point. As of today, he is our primary slasher and I'm not sure if we'll have anyone else on the squad next year that has a similar description. That makes him a lynchpin, in a way, as IMO you need this kind of player to balance out all the spot-up 3P shooters hanging out beyond the line.

I see him at 10-14 points, 5-6 rebounds, 3-4 assists, 1-2 steals, that kind of player going forward. He is also already a capable defender (so a nice complement G to Markus). Lastly I think he has potential left, I think he will see him grow into a decent 3P shooter as well and add some other nuances to his game.

[Floorslapper]

Top 30 is theoretically between a 1-8 seed. Other places I have posted my expectations I have said 7 seed or higher. No downgrading here.

Okay.  But Wojo, in his power point, presented his vision in Year 5 as being a "high NCAA seed?" 

I can see some nice pieces that will help toward that goal, yet I'm truly concerned about Wojo's ability to coach.  Personally, I think we underachieved our talent each of the last two seasons.

[CTWarrior]

My opinion is that it is the greatest regular season win. You and goose obviously disagree . Goose even said that anyone with a brain would disagree. I asked him to name better wins, he couldn't,  or refused to. You have. unfortunately I wasn't around for any of the hank era so I can't compare. Why do you think Missouri on the road is better? Actually curious because I wasn't around yet.

I don't.  Hank Raymonds said it was at the time and was roundly criticized for it, but it was on a par with the Nova win for significance. 

[GrimmReaper33]

Everyone, until a Wojo team learns to play defense...hell...a little defense...we should get used to the bubble watch.  As much as it sucked watching VT choke against ND, the defensive intensity (let's leave the offense out of the discussion for now) was refreshing to see.

Rowsey was fun to watch on "O" but his "D" was painful.  Sam has no lateral movement.  He looks like he is stuck in wet cement an Nova took full advantage.  I don't even want to go into rebounding.  To have the other team repeatedly grab offensive rebounds off FREE THROWS is unbelievable and inexcusable.  Al used to say that the only thing that can be controlled in the game is defensive effort.  MU needs a remedial class in that line of thought.

And before everyone jumps on me for being new or a troll, I had a different screen name with over 3000 posts.  Just haven't posted all season and forgot all my login info...

Big +1 here.  Wojo is going to have to prove that he can put together a good defensive team.  The excuse around here has been that Wojo has never had the guys to have a good defense, well I don't think that excuse can be used anymore.  For all the talk of how next season is "the year" they are going to need to make a big jump defensively to really be a threat. 

I also would agree with those that say the loss of Rowsey is going to hurt more than many fans think.  Playing him with Howard put a ton of pressure on opposing defenses and created a ton of space for our bigs and slashers to work.  Chances of getting a grad transfer or HS PG that will bring the offensive ability of Rowsey is basically zero.  There are multiple games this year that there is no way MU wins without Rowsey- Wed night was one of them.

I also think it will be interesting to see how Sam does playing the 3 pretty much exclusively.  It seems the few times he struggles offensively is when he's guarded by athletic wings with length, and I would think he will face more defenders like that next year.  Especially with Rowsey gone and opponents putting all their focus on slowing down Howard and Hauser. 

[Goose]

Yeti

Sacar was a benefactor of the outside shooting skills on this team. Hauser also saw more open looks due to the little guys. Very similar to HC looking awfully good when Luke and HE played him and not so much beyond that. Don't over estimate guys without looking at the big picture. Sacar could slash because it was wide open and happy he did. Might not be so wide open next season.

[Its DJOver]

Goose

That win over UCONN was truly a great one, as was the win over St. Johns to win the Big East.  Now that games have been referenced, we can have a discussion.  All three wins were amazing and it is my opinion that the Nova win was the best.  You obviously disagree, which is fine.  I think that the UCONN game has extra sentimentality because it was our first game in the new conference and Mr. Novak had one of the best single game performances in MU history.  If you think that it was a better win that's fine, but you talk about building on these wins, and the 05-06 season ended with a loss to a 10 seed, the same way the 16-17 season ended with a loss to a 7 seed.  Both great wins, but we weren't able to have a successful end of season.

The St. Johns game was also a huge win, and that's the one that gets remember because that's when they got the trophy, and eventual banner.  However, I think the biggest win of the season that year was over Syracuse. Watching Vander and Cater-Williams go back and forth was really fun, they were also ranked 12th at the time.  Both great wins in the 12-13 season, and we were able to build on them and get to an E8.

An argument can be made for all these games, and we all have our different opinions.  Mine is the Nova game, yours is the UCONN game, that's fine.  Saying anyone with a brain knows that Nova isn't the biggest win is not fine, and its interesting that you said that and then in your very next post said that you often find me disrespectful.  I have never intentionally disrespected anyone, any unintentional disrespect would stem from me laying the sarcasm on too thick.  If I have disrespected you I apologize.

[mu_hilltopper]

I also would agree with those that say the loss of Rowsey is going to hurt more than many fans think.  Playing him with Howard put a ton of pressure on opposing defenses and created a ton of space for our bigs and slashers to work.

It did?  Boy .. Heldt, Frolling, Anim.. must have had great years then.   

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

My opinion is that it is the greatest regular season win. You and goose obviously disagree . Goose even said that anyone with a brain would disagree. I asked him to name better wins, he couldn't,  or refused to. You have. unfortunately I wasn't around for any of the hank era so I can't compare. Why do you think Missouri on the road is better? Actually curious because I wasn't around yet.

So don't get angry when a bunch of people disagree. 

I personally didn't care about the 'greatest regular season win' prior to Nova.  Mainly because those regular season games were just one of many great moments and usually not the peak accomplishment of a program or era.  If we are talking about 'greatest regular season' anything, it likely means we are failing as a program (caution: hyperbole -- I am not saying the Marquette program is failing)

[Its DJOver]

So don't get angry when a bunch of people disagree. 

I personally didn't care about the 'greatest regular season win' prior to Nova.  Mainly because those regular season games were just one of many great moments and usually not the peak accomplishment of a program or era.  If we are talking about 'greatest regular season' anything, it likely means we are failing as a program (caution: hyperbole -- I am not saying the Marquette program is failing)

I didn't get angry, I was mostly irritated when he said that Nova wasn't even top 5, and then wouldn't name his top 5.  I enjoy good discussion, especially about mubb, so if someone brings up a point that I don't agree with, I will try to have a discussion with them. 

Honestly I'm pretty happy that Goose and I have turned a thread about the NIT into reminiscing about our favorite moments.

[willie warrior]

They're young!!!

Yes, they are young and will be really, really, really good next year...or the year after. repeat and rinse.

[f/k/a humanlung]

CTWarrior

DJO has no idea, but Homer has said it was best regular season win in school history a thousand times on the radio. Yes, first time ever beating #1 in regular season, but not a top ten significant regular season win IMO. I would put beating UConn in first BE way ahead of the 'nova win and that is not top 5 IMO

I think part of the problem that permeates this whole discussion is that not so long ago, a win over the overall #1 would not have been that big of a surprise.  We were a consistent top 25ish team and while it would have been a tough win, it was not "charge onto the court to celebrate" tough. 

[rocket surgeon]

It did?  Boy .. Heldt, Frolling, Anim.. must have had great years then.

I would amend grimm's comment to state, "it should have created a ton of..."

[ATL MU Warrior]

I think part of the problem that permeates this whole discussion is that not so long ago, a win over the overall #1 would not have been that big of a surprise.  We were a consistent top 25ish team and while it would have been a tough win, it was not "charge onto the court to celebrate" tough.

Then why did it never happen until last year?

[f/k/a humanlung]

Then why did it never happen until last year?

How many times have we played overall #1s in the last 50 years?  What is that number as a percent of the number of games we have played in total? 

I am saying that we have played at a level in the not distant past where we would not have stormed the court after beating a #1.  As a program, we expected to be competitive with top-tier teams.  Now, not so much.  That is not good, in my opinion.

[ATL MU Warrior]

How many times have we played overall #1s in the last 50 years?  What is that number as a percent of the number of games we have played in total? 

I am saying that we have played at a level in the not distant past where we would not have stormed the court after beating a #1.  As a program, we expected to be competitive with top-tier teams.  Now, not so much.  That is not good, in my opinion.

Ask Goose about first paragraph. He should know

[GrimmReaper33]

It did?  Boy .. Heldt, Frolling, Anim.. must have had great years then.

Well they weren't that great because frankly they aren't very good players, especially offensively.  Also, Anim did have some big games offensively where he was able to slash to the rim and Hauser also scored quite a bit in the paint.  Point is the offensive spacing is not going to be nearly as good next year, IMO, without the Howard/Rowsey combo at guard.

I expect the offensive efficiency numbers will drop some on next year's team, can they improve enough defensively to offset that and beyond to be as good as fans are expecting next year?  Morrow should help, no doubt, but is he all of a sudden going to make this a top 50 defensive team from the 175 rated defense they are now?

[Goose]

ATL MU

I believe MU has played five games in MKE against the #1 team in the country and won once. Playing #1 has not happened often in the history of the program.

[CTWarrior]

Then why did it never happen until last year?

Basic reason is that when Al was here UCLA was almost always number 1 and we never played them.

[Goose]

CTWarrior

Bingo. We have played more games ranked #1 than against #1 opponents.

[GGGG]

My impression is, and I could be completely wrong about this, is that MU didn't necessarily play a very strong schedule.  Mostly against other independents while other schools were in their conference season.

Back in the day, strength of schedule wasn't much of an emphasis anyway.  Just many games against traditional opponents.

In 1976-77 for instance, Marquette played seven ranked teams (out of 26 games) and lost five of them. 

[Goose]

sultan,

Schedules were different back then. MU played the same teams year in and year out. Some years were tougher than others. Please note that MU ran the board with five straight wins against ranked teams to win it all. I am in the minority of the older guys on here, but I think the '76-77 team was either third or best team Al ever had at MU. The record did not reflect the talent level.

For the record the team that lost to Ohio State was the best, followed by '75-76 team, IMO. The championship team was an elite team and started the season off ranked either #1 or #2 depending on the poll. I believe SI had #1.

[GGGG]

Thanks Goose, that's what I thought. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay.  But Wojo, in his power point, presented his vision in Year 5 as being a "high NCAA seed?" 

I can see some nice pieces that will help toward that goal, yet I'm truly concerned about Wojo's ability to coach.  Personally, I think we underachieved our talent each of the last two seasons.

What I'm saying is that 7 seed or higher is a high NCAA seed.

For the 2nd paragraph,  that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. But no one in the business projected us making the tournament last season but we did. No one in the business projected us making the tournament this season and we are now in the conversation. Your expectations were higher,  nothing wrong with that. But I trust the opinions of the collective professionals more.