Amazon narrows its list of cities for its second HQ

[reinko]

I would be very, very, very shocked if Amazon HQ2 doesn't end up in Montgomery County....specifically Gaithersburg.

+1 on Montgomery County, but what about Silver Spring?

With Discovery leaving their downtown, that's a whole of office space that will be readily available.  Discovery campus is HUGE.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/discoverys-departure-is-shot-across-the-bow-for-silver-spring-state-and-region/2018/01/12/fb11452e-f6fe-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.71d8e739ea71

[Tugg Speedman]

I think there are a number of other places that 22 year old hipsters would mind living. Austin, Seattle, Denver, San Francisco, etc.

San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).

After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located?  Manhattan/Brooklyn. 

[Benny B]

San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).

After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located?  Manhattan/Brooklyn.

Denver.

[jesmu84]

San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).

After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located?  Manhattan/Brooklyn.

Apple seems to think Austin is just fine.

[Tugg Speedman]

Apple seems to think Austin is just fine.

Yet, Apple just announced they too are building a second HQ that will employ up to 20,000 and have already ruled out the entire state of Texas.

http://www.newsweek.com/where-will-apple-build-its-second-headquarters-tim-cook-narrows-list-785220

Cook said the new campus will not be in California—where its new $5 billion “Spaceship” headquarters is located—nor will it be in Texas, where the company already has a significant presence.

[MUBurrow]

These company location contests are so damn masturbatory. Its disgusting.

[jesmu84]

Yet, Apple just announced they too are building a second HQ that will employ up to 20,000 and have already ruled out the entire state of Texas.

http://www.newsweek.com/where-will-apple-build-its-second-headquarters-tim-cook-narrows-list-785220

Cook said the new campus will not be in California—where its new $5 billion “Spaceship” headquarters is located—nor will it be in Texas, where the company already has a significant presence.

Good to see you're still habitually moving goalposts

[Tugg Speedman]

Good to see you're still habitually moving goalposts

Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport.  Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)

[lawdog77]

Indy Airport has plenty of room for Amazon...they already house one of their largest distribution centers...Indy's problem is there is no mass transit

As an aside, was doing a patent search for a client who wants to build a drone that is equipped with a taser...that patent is already taken by Amazon....they also have patents for drones that can "refuel" electric cars, as well as a nice drone hive...

[Benny B]

Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport.  Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)

My understanding is that by "hub," they weren't necessarily talking about a major airline's "hub" but rather, an international airport (which is basically any airport with customs officers) that flies direct to a variety of places (and has the capability to fly to more).

In other words, wherever HQ2 plops down, if there isn't already a direct flight to Sea-Tac, AMZN is going to want to see (at least) one added... so long as the airport has enough non-AMZN traffic to supplement & support AMZN's demand for (additional) daily flights to/from Seattle, that's what they were looking for.  Otherwise, there wouldn't have been 238 applications, or even 38 for that matter.

Anyways, that's all smoke and mirrors.  DCA, IAD and BWI combined have over a dozen extent daily flights to SEA - not to mention dozens of international destinations - with the capability to add more, if necessary -- that's all that matters.




San Antonio Mayor Ron Nirenberg:

"It's hard to imagine that a forward-thinking company like Amazon hasn't already selected its preferred location. And, if that's the case, then this public process is, intentionally or not, creating a bidding war amongst states and cities."

[jesmu84]

Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport.  Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)

 

http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/apple-austin-campus/

Boom. Apple in Austin..

[Jockey]

Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport.  Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)

Nonsense.  You would say the same about Louisville, yet it is UPS's major hub. And, Rockford airport is its 2nd largest hub.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/apple-austin-campus/

Boom. Apple in Austin..

What’s your point?

Yes, they have a footprint in Austin.  But they just announced they will be building an HQ2 as well for 20,000 and, boom!, it won’t be in Austin.

I think Amazon is leaning toward large Urban areas like NYC, DC and Chicago.

Further, I’ve heard from some big-wigs in Chicago involved in the process of getting Amazon that they would not be surprised if they pick multiple sites instead of one.  (They are predicting, not saying it is a fact.) This makes a lot of sense.  If you are picking a HQ2 to make yourself more geographically diverse and attractive to talented people, why only have one other?  Yes 20 others is a logistical problem, but not 2 to 4 others.

And if you are picking more than one, NYC, DC and/or Chicago are going to be picked.

[Tugg Speedman]

Nonsense.  You would say the same about Louisville, yet it is UPS's major hub. And, Rockford airport is its 2nd largest hub.

How is this relevant?

UPS, like Fedex have their own fleet of planes, so they picked an underutilized airport like Louisville or Memphis.

Amazon wants their employees to travel easily which is why a hub airport is critical.  They want the airlines to already have a big presence.

Let me turn this around, I’m at Chicago O’hare 2 to 3 times a month.  What is something I also never do?  Take a connecting flight.  I can get nearly anywhere directly.

Further when I go to NYC, which I travel to most often, American and United have flights every hour.  That gives me all the flexibility I need in changing my schedule and getting home that same day without wasting time.  Heck American has 5 flights a day between Chicago and London.

The few times I do have to fly on a connection is awful.  It a chew up and entire day just getting somewhere.

So yes, a hub airport with a lot of flights makes sense, and I would make it critical.

[GGGG]

Indy Airport has plenty of room for Amazon...they already house one of their largest distribution centers...Indy's problem is there is no mass transit

As an aside, was doing a patent search for a client who wants to build a drone that is equipped with a taser...that patent is already taken by Amazon....they also have patents for drones that can "refuel" electric cars, as well as a nice drone hive...

I also think Indy is going to have trouble attracting the type of workforce that Amazon would want.  It's basically Milwaukee with a nice convention center and a more convenient airport.

[WarriorDad]

Time to buy some properties in the DC area and flip them.

[Eldon]

Critics too often focus on the tax incentives while ignoring the fact that these economic development proposals are often lifelines for infrastructure projects that will otherwise never see the light of day.

Take Boston’s bid for GE’s new headquarters. Yes, the city offered property tax rebates of about $25 million, but GE’s move also pushed the state to fund a variety of infrastructure improvements, including the Northern Avenue bridge and new bike lanes. That bridge adds a critical path for vehicles and pedestrians in Boston’s central business district, yet has gone unfunded for years.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/19/yes-cities-should-indeed-fight-for-tech-jobs/

[jesmu84]

What’s your point?

Yes, they have a footprint in Austin.  But they just announced they will be building an HQ2 as well for 20,000 and, boom!, it won’t be in Austin.

I think Amazon is leaning toward large Urban areas like NYC, DC and Chicago.

Further, I’ve heard from some big-wigs in Chicago involved in the process of getting Amazon that they would not be surprised if they pick multiple sites instead of one.  (They are predicting, not saying it is a fact.) This makes a lot of sense.  If you are picking a HQ2 to make yourself more geographically diverse and attractive to talented people, why only have one other?  Yes 20 others is a logistical problem, but not 2 to 4 others.

And if you are picking more than one, NYC, DC and/or Chicago are going to be picked.

My point is, like I said, apple seems to think Austin is just fine. But keep it up with the goalposts

[forgetful]

why is "joe six pack" the loser?  they don't work for free, right?  you did take an econ class somewhere within your education, right?  even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money.  maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else

I'm not necessarily saying it will be the case in this particular instance, but in general these deals create very few "new jobs."  Instead they just shift the location of existing jobs.  In doing so it costs "joe six pack" the taxpayer a substantial amount of money to build the infrastructure and give the tax breaks.  You usually see taxes increase for the lay person to offset the tax breaks for the corporate entities.

The end result is a net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations. 

The winners are usually the politicians (of the receiving city) and the corporations; the losers are the politicians in cities the jobs move from, and "joe six pack".

No one has any details of this project, so no one has any idea of how this will impact anyone at this point.

[jesmu84]

I also think Indy is going to have trouble attracting the type of workforce that Amazon would want.  It's basically Milwaukee with a nice convention center and a more convenient airport.

The one thing I can say about Indy is that it is desperately trying to increase it's tech/younger workforce. They obtained a large Salesforce office, which was a good start.

[Tugg Speedman]

My point is, like I said, apple seems to think Austin is just fine. But keep it up with the goalposts

So why doesn't Apple put its HQ2 and its 20,000 employees in Austin?  Why did they rule it out at the top?

[rocket surgeon]

I'm not necessarily saying it will be the case in this particular instance, but in general these deals create very few "new jobs."  Instead they just shift the location of existing jobs.  In doing so it costs "joe six pack" the taxpayer a substantial amount of money to build the infrastructure and give the tax breaks.  You usually see taxes increase for the lay person to offset the tax breaks for the corporate entities.

The end result is a net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations. 

The winners are usually the politicians (of the receiving city) and the corporations; the losers are the politicians in cities the jobs move from, and "joe six pack".

No one has any details of this project, so no one has any idea of how this will impact anyone at this point.

   of course there is going to be some amount of cannibalizing of jobs, but don't trivialize the new worker entering the workforce.  these are great entry level jobs.  if one can persevere a mundane amazon job with some amount of responsibility, those are the ones who move on and up the job scale ladder.  rarely, if ever do you see someone jump right in to a leadership position without some sort of orientation from an entry level.

  do some benefit more than others when a large corporate institution makes a move?  absolutely, but do we need base the positives of a large company forming, moving or expanding on a winner or a loser?  i'd like to say it's always pretty good when new options and opportunities are presented.  see above. 

  "net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations"?  wait!  but joe is receiving compensation for his work, right?  if you want to gauge whether of not these changes by large corporations , whatever they are, are good or not only if joe does better than the company, then we might as well not have any changes of corporate expansions or moves.  joe is a small, yet large part of the equation.  but joe, at the same time is also replaceable.  if the company has trouble filling joes jobs, the company needs to raise joes pay

it's also difficult to calculate the benefits of these corporate moves as the money exchange ripples throughout the area in the form of products and services generated, home building, property taxes paid, etc   

[muwarrior69]

Imagine yourself as 22 year old hipster graduating with a degree in a hot field like coding or data science.  Imagine yourself single and aggressive and willing to work 70 to 80 hour weeks.  Where do you want to live.  This is the criteria they will use.

Answer ... NYC, followed by DC and then Chicago in that order.  Forgot the tax breaks, everyone is throwing money at them so that is a wash.  They are not creating HQ2 to save money .. they are doing it to stay competitive with Google and Apple and Facebook.

Hate to break it to you but that 22 year old hipster does not want to live in northern Virginia, Montgomery, Religh, Columbus, Atlanta, or Indy.  Newark is a form of punishment.  Toronto is a nice idea but they are not getting AMERICAN hipsters to “do that.”

My take is they are trying to make NYC work but might Find space for 50,000 in Manhattan might literally take all the money in the world.

You're wrong. Once our new Governor legalizes pot, Newark is a no brainer.

[dgies9156]

Bizarre as it may seem, I actually think Chicago has a pretty good shot at this.

Chicago has considerable open land in and near mass transit in the downtown area. Take your pick. South of the Congress Pkwy near the Old Post Office, the near north side or the near west side. All have open space and an opportunity for Amazon to craft an identity.

It is an emerging tech community, especially with Google on the west side.

Mass transit is good. Housing is affordable and you get anywhere at almost anytime from O'Hare. All that's needed is for the Rahmfather and Madigan to cut a deal.

And Illinois has never cut a deal now... have they? You make up for the state tax and pension problem with an airtight deal. They'll do it because it means construction opportunities for the unions and profits for the Rahmfather's and Madigan's friends.

[Tugg Speedman]

Bizarre as it may seem, I actually think Chicago has a pretty good shot at this.

Chicago has considerable open land in and near mass transit in the downtown area. Take your pick. South of the Congress Pkwy near the Old Post Office, the near north side or the near west side. All have open space and an opportunity for Amazon to craft an identity.

It is an emerging tech community, especially with Google on the west side.

Mass transit is good. Housing is affordable and you get anywhere at almost anytime from O'Hare. All that's needed is for the Rahmfather and Madigan to cut a deal.

And Illinois has never cut a deal now... have they? You make up for the state tax and pension problem with an airtight deal. They'll do it because it means construction opportunities for the unions and profits for the Rahmfather's and Madigan's friends.

If you read Crain's Chicago Business and/or talk to bigwigs in the city, they agree with you.  The biggest negative is the PERCEIVED crime rate.

(as I noted above, some of them expect Amazon to announce more than one city and if they do, they expect to be one of them.)