MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Eldon on January 18, 2018, 12:26:19 PM
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https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-hq2-list-is-officially-down-to-these-20-cities/
(https://s1.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/vanifPuOXA6euRA9PyEg.g--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/yp/offnetwork/e7239de6e72243771e02a5a5dcb6b1e0.cf.jpg)
Milwaukee didn't make the cut. But Indianapolis did. In.dian.apolis.
Reminds me of a great Onion article:
https://sports.theonion.com/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for-2020-1819572999
If I'm making bets, I got the ultra short-list as: Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly. Huge metro areas. Public transit. ATL is airport hub. Philly is smack dab in the middle of the Eastern Seaboard. All have multiple research universities in/near the city.
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Three candidates in the DC metro is not insignificant.
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God only know how many tax breaks, etc this local governments are going to give to "win" this. Not to mention how many palms are going to be greased on the local level with any new needed infrastructure.
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God only know how many tax breaks, etc this local governments are going to give to "win" this. Not to mention how many palms are going to be greased on the local level with any new needed infrastructure.
All the reasons I could do without Raleigh. The public transit barely exists and we're already struggling with the high population growth increasingly congesting the highways and main roads. No need to take on something we can't handle but will have to pay for (since Amazon will get tax breaks and not pay for anything).
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If I'm making bets, I got the ultra short-list as: Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly. Huge metro areas. Public transit. ATL is airport hub. Philly is smack dab in the middle of the Eastern Seaboard. All have multiple research universities in/near the city.
I would take that bet in a heartbeat, but Snacks already beat me to it.
The winner will be one of the three from the DC area. Book it, bank it, and let it draw interest.
Bezos already owns the Post, he just bought a house in DC, and - most significantly - with all the talk in Washington of Amazon being part of an oligopoly (or an outright monopoly) - for which the drums will only beat louder as Amazon grows bigger - Jeffy needs a local base from which to launch his lobbyist defenses.
Amazon's already made their decision. Just like Tesla chose Reno and Foxconn chose SEWI long before they announced their decisions publicly just so they could extract the maximum possible from the state and local governments.
Amazon did it smartly, however... not only do they have 19 other locales they can use as leverage with their top choice, but they also have two neighbors they can really play off of one another. Just wait.... the ultimate package that Amazon ends up with will leave the Democrats in Wisconsin saying, "you know, that Foxconn deal was pretty damn good."
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I would be very, very, very shocked if Amazon HQ2 doesn't end up in Montgomery County....specifically Gaithersburg.
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https://sports.theonion.com/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for-2020-1819572999
Though one thing is for certain... if Jeff Bezos loves restaurants that have at least 15 locations, then Indianapolis will be the winner.
(Can't believe that the InOOC-2020 didn't think to mention how there's a chain restaurant on every corner providing athletes from around the world with all of the comforts of home.)
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I wouldn't count out either Austin or Dallas.
BTW, if you would have said "Name the 20 Finalist Cities" yesterday, 90% of us would have come up with 15 or so of these. Nothing is surprising on this list except maybe Columbus, Indy and Newark.
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Austin is intriguing. Huge tech hub with a lot of internet companies.
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Austin is intriguing. Huge tech hub with a lot of internet companies.
Problem is that it lacks infrastructure. Damn city grew too fast.
Dallas on the other hand has managed its growth better.
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I wonder how many corporations will piggy back off this idea/charade that Amazon has made - having cities compete for a hub/HQ/etc.
If feels an awful lot like major sports teams wanting the public to pay for stadiums.
In the end, I think Joe six pack is gonna end up the loser
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I wonder how many corporations will piggy back off this idea/charade that Amazon has made - having cities compete for a hub/HQ/etc.
If feels an awful lot like major sports teams wanting the public to pay for stadiums.
In the end, I think Joe six pack is gonna end up the loser
Hey guess what: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/apple-to-build-2nd-campus-hire-20000-in-350b-pledge/
Corporations angling for tax breaks isn’t anything new, though. The Amazon bidding has just played out more publicly than usual.
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I wonder how many corporations will piggy back off this idea/charade that Amazon has made - having cities compete for a hub/HQ/etc.
If feels an awful lot like major sports teams wanting the public to pay for stadiums.
In the end, I think Joe six pack is gonna end up the loser
why is "joe six pack" the loser? they don't work for free, right? you did take an econ class somewhere within your education, right? even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money. maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else
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I wonder how many corporations will piggy back off this idea/charade that Amazon has made - having cities compete for a hub/HQ/etc.
If feels an awful lot like major sports teams wanting the public to pay for stadiums.
In the end, I think Joe six pack is gonna end up the loser
It's not anything new. Sixteen years ago, Seattle and Chicago had a public bidding war for the Boeing headquarters, for example.
What's new, if anything, is the sheer number of cities Amazon is leveraging against one another.
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why is "joe six pack" the loser? they don't work for free, right? you did take an econ class somewhere within your education, right? even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money. maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else
Assuming by Joe six pack, he is referring to people who will not be working for tech empires (service jobs, etc.) who will be driven out of the city due to rapid spikes in cost of living.
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https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-hq2-list-is-officially-down-to-these-20-cities/
(https://s1.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/vanifPuOXA6euRA9PyEg.g--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3E9NzU7dz02NDA7c209MTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/yp/offnetwork/e7239de6e72243771e02a5a5dcb6b1e0.cf.jpg)
Milwaukee didn't make the cut. But Indianapolis did. In.dian.apolis.
Reminds me of a great Onion article:
https://sports.theonion.com/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for-2020-1819572999
If I'm making bets, I got the ultra short-list as: Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly. Huge metro areas. Public transit. ATL is airport hub. Philly is smack dab in the middle of the Eastern Seaboard. All have multiple research universities in/near the city.
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Indianapolis is an excellent city for what is needed for this business. Would be a very good choice.
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even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money. maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else
Lol no. The worker bees in fulfillment, call centers, etc., sure. But the HQ jobs are best- and brightest-type positions.
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I don't think it is necessarily "bad." Tax incentives are fine if they create jobs. (Unlike an NBA arena for instance.) The questions are how many jobs,how much does it cost to get those job, what kind of jobs are they. In the case of an Amazon or Apple second HQ, you are creating higher net worth jobs, that create more economic activity, than an Amazon fulfillment center will. But does a place like Washington DC or Chicago need more of those types of jobs? Why would those places need to provide a huge amount of incentives?
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It's not anything new. Sixteen years ago, Seattle and Chicago had a public bidding war for the Boeing headquarters, for example.
What's new, if anything, is the sheer number of cities Amazon is leveraging against one another.
That's true.
I guess I was more referring to, like you said, the sheer number. Plus the publicity of it, compared to previous iterations.
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That's true.
I guess I was more referring to, like you said, the sheer number. Plus the publicity of it, compared to previous iterations.
In theory, it's an improvement because there is seemingly some transparency to it. Love it or hate it, the Foxconn deal was done in the light of day so people could judge it. Same will happen with Amazon HQ2.
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why is "joe six pack" the loser? they don't work for free, right? you did take an econ class somewhere within your education, right? even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money. maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else
bruh, "joe six pack" doesn't refer to tech folks, entry-level or otherwise.
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bruh, "joe six pack" doesn't refer to tech folks, entry-level or otherwise.
bruh, he meant "joe six pack of craft beer"
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Imagine yourself as 22 year old hipster graduating with a degree in a hot field like coding or data science. Imagine yourself single and aggressive and willing to work 70 to 80 hour weeks. Where do you want to live. This is the criteria they will use.
Answer ... NYC, followed by DC and then Chicago in that order. Forgot the tax breaks, everyone is throwing money at them so that is a wash. They are not creating HQ2 to save money .. they are doing it to stay competitive with Google and Apple and Facebook.
Hate to break it to you but that 22 year old hipster does not want to live in northern Virginia, Montgomery, Religh, Columbus, Atlanta, or Indy. Newark is a form of punishment. Toronto is a nice idea but they are not getting AMERICAN hipsters to “do that.”
My take is they are trying to make NYC work but might Find space for 50,000 in Manhattan might literally take all the money in the world.
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I would be very, very, very shocked if Amazon HQ2 doesn't end up in Montgomery County....specifically Gaithersburg.
MD Taxes. Vienna more like it.
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Imagine yourself as 22 year old hipster graduating with a degree in a hot field like coding or data science. Imagine yourself single and aggressive and willing to work 70 to 80 hour weeks. Where do you want to live. This is the criteria they will use.
Answer ... NYC, followed by DC and then Chicago in that order. Forgot the tax breaks, everyone is throwing money at them so that is a wash. They are not creating HQ2 to save money .. they are doing it to stay competitive with Google and Apple and Facebook.
Hate to break it to you but that 22 year old hipster does not want to live in northern Virginia, Montgomery, Religh, Columbus, Atlanta, or Indy. Newark is a form of punishment. Toronto is a nice idea but they are not getting AMERICAN hipsters to “do that.”
My take is they are trying to make NYC work but might Find space for 50,000 in Manhattan might literally take all the money in the world.
I think there are a number of other places that 22 year old hipsters would mind living. Austin, Seattle, Denver, San Francisco, etc.
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I would be very, very, very shocked if Amazon HQ2 doesn't end up in Montgomery County....specifically Gaithersburg.
+1 on Montgomery County, but what about Silver Spring?
With Discovery leaving their downtown, that's a whole of office space that will be readily available. Discovery campus is HUGE. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/discoverys-departure-is-shot-across-the-bow-for-silver-spring-state-and-region/2018/01/12/fb11452e-f6fe-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.71d8e739ea71
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I think there are a number of other places that 22 year old hipsters would mind living. Austin, Seattle, Denver, San Francisco, etc.
San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).
After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located? Manhattan/Brooklyn.
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San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).
After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located? Manhattan/Brooklyn.
Denver.
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San Fran and Seattle did not make the final 20 cities (HQ1 is already in Seattle).
After Silicon Valley, what is the #2 place for a tech startup to be located? Manhattan/Brooklyn.
Apple seems to think Austin is just fine.
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Apple seems to think Austin is just fine.
Yet, Apple just announced they too are building a second HQ that will employ up to 20,000 and have already ruled out the entire state of Texas.
http://www.newsweek.com/where-will-apple-build-its-second-headquarters-tim-cook-narrows-list-785220
Cook said the new campus will not be in California—where its new $5 billion “Spaceship” headquarters is located—nor will it be in Texas, where the company already has a significant presence.
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These company location contests are so damn masturbatory. Its disgusting.
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Yet, Apple just announced they too are building a second HQ that will employ up to 20,000 and have already ruled out the entire state of Texas.
http://www.newsweek.com/where-will-apple-build-its-second-headquarters-tim-cook-narrows-list-785220
Cook said the new campus will not be in California—where its new $5 billion “Spaceship” headquarters is located—nor will it be in Texas, where the company already has a significant presence.
Good to see you're still habitually moving goalposts
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Good to see you're still habitually moving goalposts
Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport. Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)
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Indy Airport has plenty of room for Amazon...they already house one of their largest distribution centers...Indy's problem is there is no mass transit
As an aside, was doing a patent search for a client who wants to build a drone that is equipped with a taser...that patent is already taken by Amazon....they also have patents for drones that can "refuel" electric cars, as well as a nice drone hive...
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Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport. Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)
My understanding is that by "hub," they weren't necessarily talking about a major airline's "hub" but rather, an international airport (which is basically any airport with customs officers) that flies direct to a variety of places (and has the capability to fly to more).
In other words, wherever HQ2 plops down, if there isn't already a direct flight to Sea-Tac, AMZN is going to want to see (at least) one added... so long as the airport has enough non-AMZN traffic to supplement & support AMZN's demand for (additional) daily flights to/from Seattle, that's what they were looking for. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been 238 applications, or even 38 for that matter.
Anyways, that's all smoke and mirrors. DCA, IAD and BWI combined have over a dozen extent daily flights to SEA - not to mention dozens of international destinations - with the capability to add more, if necessary -- that's all that matters.
San Antonio Mayor Ron Nirenberg:
"It's hard to imagine that a forward-thinking company like Amazon hasn't already selected its preferred location. And, if that's the case, then this public process is, intentionally or not, creating a bidding war amongst states and cities."
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Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport. Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)
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http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/apple-austin-campus/
Boom. Apple in Austin..
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Ok, Amazon also said it has to have a hub airport. Austin, Indy, and Raleigh don't have hub airports. (Dallas does)
Nonsense. You would say the same about Louisville, yet it is UPS's major hub. And, Rockford airport is its 2nd largest hub.
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http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/apple-austin-campus/
Boom. Apple in Austin..
What’s your point?
Yes, they have a footprint in Austin. But they just announced they will be building an HQ2 as well for 20,000 and, boom!, it won’t be in Austin.
I think Amazon is leaning toward large Urban areas like NYC, DC and Chicago.
Further, I’ve heard from some big-wigs in Chicago involved in the process of getting Amazon that they would not be surprised if they pick multiple sites instead of one. (They are predicting, not saying it is a fact.) This makes a lot of sense. If you are picking a HQ2 to make yourself more geographically diverse and attractive to talented people, why only have one other? Yes 20 others is a logistical problem, but not 2 to 4 others.
And if you are picking more than one, NYC, DC and/or Chicago are going to be picked.
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Nonsense. You would say the same about Louisville, yet it is UPS's major hub. And, Rockford airport is its 2nd largest hub.
How is this relevant?
UPS, like Fedex have their own fleet of planes, so they picked an underutilized airport like Louisville or Memphis.
Amazon wants their employees to travel easily which is why a hub airport is critical. They want the airlines to already have a big presence.
Let me turn this around, I’m at Chicago O’hare 2 to 3 times a month. What is something I also never do? Take a connecting flight. I can get nearly anywhere directly.
Further when I go to NYC, which I travel to most often, American and United have flights every hour. That gives me all the flexibility I need in changing my schedule and getting home that same day without wasting time. Heck American has 5 flights a day between Chicago and London.
The few times I do have to fly on a connection is awful. It a chew up and entire day just getting somewhere.
So yes, a hub airport with a lot of flights makes sense, and I would make it critical.
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Indy Airport has plenty of room for Amazon...they already house one of their largest distribution centers...Indy's problem is there is no mass transit
As an aside, was doing a patent search for a client who wants to build a drone that is equipped with a taser...that patent is already taken by Amazon....they also have patents for drones that can "refuel" electric cars, as well as a nice drone hive...
I also think Indy is going to have trouble attracting the type of workforce that Amazon would want. It's basically Milwaukee with a nice convention center and a more convenient airport.
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Time to buy some properties in the DC area and flip them.
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Critics too often focus on the tax incentives while ignoring the fact that these economic development proposals are often lifelines for infrastructure projects that will otherwise never see the light of day.
Take Boston’s bid for GE’s new headquarters. Yes, the city offered property tax rebates of about $25 million, but GE’s move also pushed the state to fund a variety of infrastructure improvements, including the Northern Avenue bridge and new bike lanes. That bridge adds a critical path for vehicles and pedestrians in Boston’s central business district, yet has gone unfunded for years.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/19/yes-cities-should-indeed-fight-for-tech-jobs/
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What’s your point?
Yes, they have a footprint in Austin. But they just announced they will be building an HQ2 as well for 20,000 and, boom!, it won’t be in Austin.
I think Amazon is leaning toward large Urban areas like NYC, DC and Chicago.
Further, I’ve heard from some big-wigs in Chicago involved in the process of getting Amazon that they would not be surprised if they pick multiple sites instead of one. (They are predicting, not saying it is a fact.) This makes a lot of sense. If you are picking a HQ2 to make yourself more geographically diverse and attractive to talented people, why only have one other? Yes 20 others is a logistical problem, but not 2 to 4 others.
And if you are picking more than one, NYC, DC and/or Chicago are going to be picked.
My point is, like I said, apple seems to think Austin is just fine. But keep it up with the goalposts
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why is "joe six pack" the loser? they don't work for free, right? you did take an econ class somewhere within your education, right? even though amazon jobs are mostly kinda mundane, it's a good entry level position to grow, learn how to work, appreciate a paycheck, pay the bills and spend some money. maybe even move up either within the company or somewhere else
I'm not necessarily saying it will be the case in this particular instance, but in general these deals create very few "new jobs." Instead they just shift the location of existing jobs. In doing so it costs "joe six pack" the taxpayer a substantial amount of money to build the infrastructure and give the tax breaks. You usually see taxes increase for the lay person to offset the tax breaks for the corporate entities.
The end result is a net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations.
The winners are usually the politicians (of the receiving city) and the corporations; the losers are the politicians in cities the jobs move from, and "joe six pack".
No one has any details of this project, so no one has any idea of how this will impact anyone at this point.
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I also think Indy is going to have trouble attracting the type of workforce that Amazon would want. It's basically Milwaukee with a nice convention center and a more convenient airport.
The one thing I can say about Indy is that it is desperately trying to increase it's tech/younger workforce. They obtained a large Salesforce office, which was a good start.
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My point is, like I said, apple seems to think Austin is just fine. But keep it up with the goalposts
So why doesn't Apple put its HQ2 and its 20,000 employees in Austin? Why did they rule it out at the top?
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I'm not necessarily saying it will be the case in this particular instance, but in general these deals create very few "new jobs." Instead they just shift the location of existing jobs. In doing so it costs "joe six pack" the taxpayer a substantial amount of money to build the infrastructure and give the tax breaks. You usually see taxes increase for the lay person to offset the tax breaks for the corporate entities.
The end result is a net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations.
The winners are usually the politicians (of the receiving city) and the corporations; the losers are the politicians in cities the jobs move from, and "joe six pack".
No one has any details of this project, so no one has any idea of how this will impact anyone at this point.
of course there is going to be some amount of cannibalizing of jobs, but don't trivialize the new worker entering the workforce. these are great entry level jobs. if one can persevere a mundane amazon job with some amount of responsibility, those are the ones who move on and up the job scale ladder. rarely, if ever do you see someone jump right in to a leadership position without some sort of orientation from an entry level.
do some benefit more than others when a large corporate institution makes a move? absolutely, but do we need base the positives of a large company forming, moving or expanding on a winner or a loser? i'd like to say it's always pretty good when new options and opportunities are presented. see above.
"net transfer of wealth from "joe six pack" to corporations"? wait! but joe is receiving compensation for his work, right? if you want to gauge whether of not these changes by large corporations , whatever they are, are good or not only if joe does better than the company, then we might as well not have any changes of corporate expansions or moves. joe is a small, yet large part of the equation. but joe, at the same time is also replaceable. if the company has trouble filling joes jobs, the company needs to raise joes pay
it's also difficult to calculate the benefits of these corporate moves as the money exchange ripples throughout the area in the form of products and services generated, home building, property taxes paid, etc
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Imagine yourself as 22 year old hipster graduating with a degree in a hot field like coding or data science. Imagine yourself single and aggressive and willing to work 70 to 80 hour weeks. Where do you want to live. This is the criteria they will use.
Answer ... NYC, followed by DC and then Chicago in that order. Forgot the tax breaks, everyone is throwing money at them so that is a wash. They are not creating HQ2 to save money .. they are doing it to stay competitive with Google and Apple and Facebook.
Hate to break it to you but that 22 year old hipster does not want to live in northern Virginia, Montgomery, Religh, Columbus, Atlanta, or Indy. Newark is a form of punishment. Toronto is a nice idea but they are not getting AMERICAN hipsters to “do that.”
My take is they are trying to make NYC work but might Find space for 50,000 in Manhattan might literally take all the money in the world.
You're wrong. Once our new Governor legalizes pot, Newark is a no brainer.
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Bizarre as it may seem, I actually think Chicago has a pretty good shot at this.
Chicago has considerable open land in and near mass transit in the downtown area. Take your pick. South of the Congress Pkwy near the Old Post Office, the near north side or the near west side. All have open space and an opportunity for Amazon to craft an identity.
It is an emerging tech community, especially with Google on the west side.
Mass transit is good. Housing is affordable and you get anywhere at almost anytime from O'Hare. All that's needed is for the Rahmfather and Madigan to cut a deal.
And Illinois has never cut a deal now... have they? You make up for the state tax and pension problem with an airtight deal. They'll do it because it means construction opportunities for the unions and profits for the Rahmfather's and Madigan's friends.
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Bizarre as it may seem, I actually think Chicago has a pretty good shot at this.
Chicago has considerable open land in and near mass transit in the downtown area. Take your pick. South of the Congress Pkwy near the Old Post Office, the near north side or the near west side. All have open space and an opportunity for Amazon to craft an identity.
It is an emerging tech community, especially with Google on the west side.
Mass transit is good. Housing is affordable and you get anywhere at almost anytime from O'Hare. All that's needed is for the Rahmfather and Madigan to cut a deal.
And Illinois has never cut a deal now... have they? You make up for the state tax and pension problem with an airtight deal. They'll do it because it means construction opportunities for the unions and profits for the Rahmfather's and Madigan's friends.
If you read Crain's Chicago Business and/or talk to bigwigs in the city, they agree with you. The biggest negative is the PERCEIVED crime rate.
(as I noted above, some of them expect Amazon to announce more than one city and if they do, they expect to be one of them.)
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With respect to amazon choosing Chicago, a possible negative could be the cost of doing business there. This is where forgottens post may be relevant. If amazon were to consider Chicago and its positive attributes, they are going to want some incentives and this is where the politicians prosper...in more ways than one, eyn’er?
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I hope Chicago gets strong consideration. Sterling Bays proposal is really interesting.
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With respect to amazon choosing Chicago, a possible negative could be the cost of doing business there. This is where forgottens post may be relevant. If amazon were to consider Chicago and its positive attributes, they are going to want some incentives and this is where the politicians prosper...in more ways than one, eyn’er?
Actually, it is very easy and simple ... when you're big like Amazon (or say the Cubs) you only have to pay one person ... "Da Mayor." Part of the deal in making him happy is he keeps all the other leeches away.
The problem is the vast majority of businesses cannot afford Da Mayor and have to pay one leech at a time until they are sucked dry.
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Imagine yourself as 22 year old hipster graduating with a degree in a hot field like coding or data science. Imagine yourself single and aggressive and willing to work 70 to 80 hour weeks. Where do you want to live. This is the criteria they will use.
Answer ... NYC, followed by DC and then Chicago in that order. Forgot the tax breaks, everyone is throwing money at them so that is a wash. They are not creating HQ2 to save money .. they are doing it to stay competitive with Google and Apple and Facebook.
Hate to break it to you but that 22 year old hipster does not want to live in northern Virginia, Montgomery, Religh, Columbus, Atlanta, or Indy. Newark is a form of punishment. Toronto is a nice idea but they are not getting AMERICAN hipsters to “do that.”
My take is they are trying to make NYC work but might Find space for 50,000 in Manhattan might literally take all the money in the world.
Companies are not necessarily looking 22 year old hipsters. They are looking for hard working dependable and stable more seasoned employees. Speaking as a large employer, in a situation like this maximum political benefit and proven quality of workers are key. The logistics part can all be made to work. For Example, Any area with a quality airport, can become a hub over night. Some of the locations involved were once hubs or mini hubs.
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Companies are not necessarily looking 22 year old hipsters. They are looking for hard working dependable and stable more seasoned employees. Speaking as a large employer, in a situation like this maximum political benefit and proven quality of workers are key. The logistics part can all be made to work. For Example, Any area with a quality airport, can become a hub over night. Some of the locations involved were once hubs or mini hubs.
Herm, not quite. My firm moved from Wacker Drive to the Near West Side solely because our CEO thought is would be a good move to attract Millennials (we're three blocks from our old building). Everything from the interior design to the interior offices is designed to stroke the ego of the Millennial.
They are looking for Millennials, like it or not. Trust me, I could do without a big hunk of 'em (though some are really gifted).
As to a hub airport, Amazon may spark some flights to Seattle, as it did in Milwaukee. But if you want a hub that's truly global, you're probably only considering a half dozen destinations. Of Amazon's group, this would be Newark, Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, Philadelphia and Dallas. No one, and I mean no one, will plunk down a hub in Indianapolis, Nashville or Raleigh given the proximity to Atlanta, Dulles, Chicago or Newark and Philadelphia. Not gonna happen. Airline economics don't work that way.
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Herm, not quite. My firm moved from Wacker Drive to the Near West Side solely because our CEO thought is would be a good move to attract Millennials (we're three blocks from our old building). Everything from the interior design to the interior offices is designed to stroke the ego of the Millennial.
They are looking for Millennials, like it or not. Trust me, I could do without a big hunk of 'em (though some are really gifted).
GE moved to Boston (from Stamford) to attract millennials. McDonalds moved from Oakbrook to the west side of Chicago to attract millennials (Harpo studios space).
The way companies operate in the next 10 to 15 years, the products they sell, the way they advertise them, heck even the money they use to pay for them (see the bitcoin thread) has not been invented yet. The millennials will invent as these things.
The over 40 crowd (and especially the over 50 crowd) is only interested in fighting change to preserve the status quoted. I hear it all the time. You can see it in the bitcoin and driverless car threads here.
So if you plan on being business in 10 to 15 years, you have to conclude three things ... what you will be doing in 10 to 15 years will most likely bear little relationship to what you do now, you probably don’t know what that will look like, and the over 40 crowd will not get you there and fight every change to preserve the status quo.
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Millennials are old news. The YZ Cusp (born 1995-2000) is starting to join the work force and Gen Z (born after 2000) is right behind. What Gen Z becomes remains to be seen. Those starting to cater to millennials are behind the curve. Younger millennials will be transitioning from young & single to the family years. It'll be interesting to see how their living habits change over the next 5-10 years. My experience: Older millennials are starting to flock to the suburbs. Whether that is a widespread trend or not, I don't know.
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Millennials are old news. The YZ Cusp (born 1995-2000) is starting to join the work force and Gen Z (born after 2000) is right behind. What Gen Z becomes remains to be seen. Those starting to cater to millennials are behind the curve. Younger millennials will be transitioning from young & single to the family years. It'll be interesting to see how their living habits change over the next 5-10 years. My experience: Older millennials are starting to flock to the suburbs. Whether that is a widespread trend or not, I don't know.
Much of the data I have seen suggests the opposite. Millennials are more urban than any generation before them which accounts for soaring urban home prices relative suburban home prices.
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Much of the data I have seen suggests the opposite. Millennials are more urban than any generation before them which accounts for soaring urban home prices relative suburban home prices.
I've seen the same research and my personal observations were that was accurate. But that research is backwards looking. I was talking about where millennials are headed.
Like I said, I think the trend is just starting as millennials move into their 30's. The younger millennials are urban...for now. I'm not sure that holds 5-10 years from now but maybe it does. Maybe Gen Z fills the urban gap if millennials flock to the burbs. Or they might create their own paradigm that no one sees coming, just like millennials did. Time will tell.
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I've seen the same research and my personal observations were that was accurate. But that research is backwards looking. I was talking about where millennials are headed.
Like I said, I think the trend is just starting as millennials move into their 30's. The younger millennials are urban...for now. I'm not sure that holds 5-10 years from now but maybe it does. Maybe Gen Z fills the urban gap if millennials flock to the burbs. Or they might create their own paradigm that no one sees coming, just like millennials did. Time will tell.
Amazon said the average pay for these 50,000 jobs (yes it will take 10 years) will be over $100k. If so, go long private schools in the urban area they are located and not real estate in the nice suburb 45 minutes away.
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SNL did a skit on Amazon's HQ2 search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xop8ug07KS8
http://www.youtube.com/v/Xop8ug07KS8
(Hey mods, none of the youtube embeds are working)
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Herm, not quite. My firm moved from Wacker Drive to the Near West Side solely because our CEO thought is would be a good move to attract Millennials (we're three blocks from our old building). Everything from the interior design to the interior offices is designed to stroke the ego of the Millennial.
They are looking for Millennials, like it or not. Trust me, I could do without a big hunk of 'em (though some are really gifted).
As to a hub airport, Amazon may spark some flights to Seattle, as it did in Milwaukee. But if you want a hub that's truly global, you're probably only considering a half dozen destinations. Of Amazon's group, this would be Newark, Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, Philadelphia and Dallas. No one, and I mean no one, will plunk down a hub in Indianapolis, Nashville or Raleigh given the proximity to Atlanta, Dulles, Chicago or Newark and Philadelphia. Not gonna happen. Airline economics don't work that way.
Don't want to speak for Hermicos, but I think he was saying that HQ2 might not be targeting swaths of educated Millennials. I do it too.... most every reference society makes to Millennials is in the context of college-educated workforce with some level of disposable income. IOW, Millennials are a generational cohort, not a socioeconomic class. There are millions of Millennials who only have a HS education (and some with less), and those people are nowhere near the "hipsters" who relish the live/work/play... these are people who live on the south sides and Resedas and Cumberland Counties.
Short example... if HQ2 is going to sport a disproportionately large back-office operation (e.g. customer care, low-level admin, bookkeeping, in-house sales, etc.), i.e. jobs that do not necessarily support a live-work-play lifestyle, then a hipster downtown location would be counterproductive to their search efforts.
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Don't want to speak for Hermicos, but I think he was saying that HQ2 might not be targeting swaths of educated Millennials. I do it too.... most every reference society makes to Millennials is in the context of college-educated workforce with some level of disposable income. IOW, Millennials are a generational cohort, not a socioeconomic class. There are millions of Millennials who only have a HS education (and some with less), and those people are nowhere near the "hipsters" who relish the live/work/play... these are people who live on the south sides and Resedas and Cumberland Counties.
Short example... if HQ2 is going to sport a disproportionately large back-office operation (e.g. customer care, low-level admin, bookkeeping, in-house sales, etc.), i.e. jobs that do not necessarily support a live-work-play lifestyle, then a hipster downtown location would be counterproductive to their search efforts.
Not low level ... it's 50,000 hipsters that are going to redefine retailing.
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/09/18/551773552/cities-try-convincing-amazon-they-re-ready-for-its-new-headquarters
The top-line pitch is Amazon's promise to invest $5 billion in whatever community it picks to be the home of its second headquarters. And the company says it would bring up to 50,000 new jobs, with an average salary of more than $100,000.
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Not low level ... it's 50,000 hipsters that are going to redefine retailing.
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/09/18/551773552/cities-try-convincing-amazon-they-re-ready-for-its-new-headquarters
The top-line pitch is Amazon's promise to invest $5 billion in whatever community it picks to be the home of its second headquarters. And the company says it would bring up to 50,000 new jobs, with an average salary of more than $100,000.
In this case, I suspect the median is going to be more telling than the average. A (relative) handful of seven-figure execs could throw that average out of wack.
That said, this isn't a warehouse operation. By and large this will be white collar workers earning salaries well above the national median.
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In this case, I suspect the median is going to be more telling than the average. A (relative) handful of seven-figure execs could throw that average out of wack.
That said, this isn't a warehouse operation. By and large this will be white collar workers earning salaries well above the national median.
Correct
this is not a distribution center. This is not customer service. Amazon has very few low-level admin, that is all programmed and they employ virtually no secretaries.
It is going to be thousands of tech jobs, thousands of sales jobs, thousands of management jobs.
The availability and desirability of millennial tech employees will drive this decision.
That's why I think the top three are NYC, DC, and Chicago. If you are a millennial tech hotshot, that is where you want to live.
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GE moved to Boston (from Stamford) to attract millennials. McDonalds moved from Oakbrook to the west side of Chicago to attract millennials (Harpo studios space).
The over 40 crowd (and especially the over 50 crowd) is only interested in fighting change to preserve the status quoted. I hear it all the time. You can see it in the bitcoin and driverless car threads here.
A couple of thoughts to this:
1) For now, the West Side of Chicago, Boston, etc., are the haunts of the upscale, well-educated Millennials. No doubt. But at some point, these people will start having children and these children will need to go to schools. I see no way, shape or form in which a Millennial will send their children to the Chicago Public Schools. Yes, I know there are magnet schools but there are not enough spaces in Magnet Schools and not enough politically connected Millennials to meet the demand from Millennials. Add to that the safety factors and government instability in cities and I suspect lots of them will do what we Boomers did, move to the suburbs, where schools are good and their children would have a shot at the Ivys.
2) I don't see the Millennials putting up with government like that existing in Chicago. Bad schools, bad public works, massive taxes and aldermen who exist to be served rather than to serve will have the same effect on them it did on us, causing folks to seek opportunity in the suburbs.
3) As much as our generation at times loathes the Millennials, they are not a whole lot different than we Boomers were. They're well-educated, anxious and hoping for a good life. They loathe all us older folks because we're in the way of what they perceive as their growth trajectory. Show me a boomer who didn't feel the same way in the 1970s and 1980s!
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A couple of thoughts to this:
1) For now, the West Side of Chicago, Boston, etc., are the haunts of the upscale, well-educated Millennials. No doubt. But at some point, these people will start having children and these children will need to go to schools. I see no way, shape or form in which a Millennial will send their children to the Chicago Public Schools. Yes, I know there are magnet schools but there are not enough spaces in Magnet Schools and not enough politically connected Millennials to meet the demand from Millennials. Add to that the safety factors and government instability in cities and I suspect lots of them will do what we Boomers did, move to the suburbs, where schools are good and their children would have a shot at the Ivys.
2) I don't see the Millennials putting up with government like that existing in Chicago. Bad schools, bad public works, massive taxes and aldermen who exist to be served rather than to serve will have the same effect on them it did on us, causing folks to seek opportunity in the suburbs.
3) As much as our generation at times loathes the Millennials, they are not a whole lot different than we Boomers were. They're well-educated, anxious and hoping for a good life. They loathe all us older folks because we're in the way of what they perceive as their growth trajectory. Show me a boomer who didn't feel the same way in the 1970s and 1980s!
DG, I think you’re telling is a lot about yourself. Becuase pretty much the opposite is happening.
1) private daycare, private pre-school, nannies and private and charter schools are absolutely booming in the city. They cannot building them fast enough. Latin school spent $50 million of privately raised money on its campus. The British School is building a huge campus near UIC, GEMS academy had a waiting list the first year it was opened and City Day is expanding. Charter schools are now nearly 20% of all CPS students and going up left and right. Pre-schools are opening left and right all over the city.
Gone are the days that the best education in the area was New Trier and/if Hinsdale. It is now in the city. I believe this comment applies for most large Cities, certainly the 20 Amazon is considering.
2) Millennials will not put up with bad government service, and they will not. The dirty little secret is government services are spread out according to the tax base. Go down an alley in Lincoln Park. THen do the same in Pilsen, the cleanliness and quality are not close to the same. Call 911 in Lincoln Park and watch how three cars will be there in less than a minute. Do that in Chatham and watch how no one might come. Againm this applies for all the finalist.
My point is they are “Urban” and intend on staying that way. They will move into a bad neighborhood before the ‘burbs. So like you correctly noted their mindset in 3), that mindset also is “urban” and they are not leaving for the suburbs.
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Millennial moving to the suburbs has some weight to it
http://fortune.com/2016/03/28/millennials-leaving-cities/
https://www.inc.com/dustin-mckissen/studies-show-millennials-are-moving-to-suburbs-employers-are-following.html
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DG, I think you’re telling is a lot about yourself. Becuase pretty much the opposite is happening.
1) private daycare, private pre-school, nannies and private and charter schools are absolutely booming in the city. They cannot building them fast enough. Latin school spent $50 million of privately raised money on its campus. The British School is building a huge campus near UIC, GEMS academy had a waiting list the first year it was opened and City Day is expanding. Charter schools are now nearly 20% of all CPS students and going up left and right. Pre-schools are opening left and right all over the city.
Gone are the days that the best education in the area was New Trier and/if Hinsdale. It is now in the city. I believe this comment applies for most large Cities, certainly the 20 Amazon is considering.
2) Millennials will not put up with bad government service, and they will not. The dirty little secret is government services are spread out according to the tax base. Go down an alley in Lincoln Park. THen do the same in Pilsen, the cleanliness and quality are not close to the same. Call 911 in Lincoln Park and watch how three cars will be there in less than a minute. Do that in Chatham and watch how no one might come. Againm this applies for all the finalist.
My point is they are “Urban” and intend on staying that way. They will move into a bad neighborhood before the ‘burbs. So like you correctly noted their mindset in 3), that mindset also is “urban” and they are not leaving for the suburbs.
I can't speak to other major cities, but I'm not so sure this is the case in Chicago.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3SqYt1jvnpsY/giphy.gif)
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DG, I think you’re telling is a lot about yourself. Becuase pretty much the opposite is happening.
1) private daycare, private pre-school, nannies and private and charter schools are absolutely booming in the city. They cannot building them fast enough. Latin school spent $50 million of privately raised money on its campus. The British School is building a huge campus near UIC, GEMS academy had a waiting list the first year it was opened and City Day is expanding. Charter schools are now nearly 20% of all CPS students and going up left and right. Pre-schools are opening left and right all over the city.
Gone are the days that the best education in the area was New Trier and/if Hinsdale. It is now in the city. I believe this comment applies for most large Cities, certainly the 20 Amazon is considering.
2) Millennials will not put up with bad government service, and they will not. The dirty little secret is government services are spread out according to the tax base. Go down an alley in Lincoln Park. THen do the same in Pilsen, the cleanliness and quality are not close to the same. Call 911 in Lincoln Park and watch how three cars will be there in less than a minute. Do that in Chatham and watch how no one might come. Againm this applies for all the finalist.
My point is they are “Urban” and intend on staying that way. They will move into a bad neighborhood before the ‘burbs. So like you correctly noted their mindset in 3), that mindset also is “urban” and they are not leaving for the suburbs.
Where is all the money coming from for millennials paying for this stuff? All the anecdotal evidence I have, plus articles I've read, says millennials have too much debt for this stuff
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Where is all the money coming from for millennials paying for this stuff? All the anecdotal evidence I have, plus articles I've read, says millennials have too much debt for this stuff
I’m talking about the millennials that make over $100k at Amazon in the new HQ2.
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I can't speak to other major cities, but I'm not so sure this is the case in Chicago.
Absolutely is. When the private and charter schools are factored in, which they are not in most of the surveys, Hinsdale Central and New Trier tumble down the list.
Chicago uHigh arguably has the highest average SAT for an high school in the country. One-third of Latin’s graduating class goes to a top 10 university. Parker has about 15 kids at Stanford now.
I’m not arguing Hinsdale or New Trier are bad, they are outstanding. Rather the truly best academic high schools in the area are the private schools in the city.
So if you’re a millennial making well North of 100k, and you need more room ... hello Lake View.
Same applies to the other 20 cities
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Absolutely is. When the private and charter schools are factored in, which they are not in most of the surveys, Hinsdale Central and New Trier tumble down the list.
Chicago uHigh arguably has the highest average SAT for an high school in the country. One-third of Latin’s graduating class goes to a top 10 university. Parker has about 15 kids at Stanford now.
I’m not arguing Hinsdale or New Trier are bad, they are outstanding. Rather the truly best academic high schools in the area are the private schools in the city.
So if you’re a millennial making well North of 100k, and you need more room ... hello Lake View.
Same applies to the other 20 cities
"Well North of 100k" is quite an understatement of the salary required to send multiple kids to a school like Latin.
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Absolutely is. When the private and charter schools are factored in, which they are not in most of the surveys, Hinsdale Central and New Trier tumble down the list.
This is misleading, though, because these private and charter schools can pick and chose the kids they want to educate, and therefore can insure that they're only dealing with high-achieving students (and push out the ones who aren't). Hence, really high SAT scores. Public schools - even the Stevensons and New Triers - have to educate every kid in the district, so they've got 'C' students dragging down their average test scores.
I'm not taking anything away from those others schools. They're all excellent and deserving of their reputations. But comparing their SAT/standardized test scores to public schools is not a fair or relevant comparison.
Another point .... indications are that once millennials get married and have kids, they, like previous generations, are moving to the suburbs. Definitely later in life, and perhaps not at quite the same frequency, but they're still doing it. The notion that they're all going to be urban dwellers is vastly overstated. Certainly some will choose to remain in the city into their late 40s and raise high schoolers there (remember ... they're not having kids until their 30+), most will be out in the burbs just like their parents.
https://www.npr.org/2017/09/15/551232392/as-millennials-get-older-many-are-buying-suvs-to-drive-to-their-suburban-homes
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-25/millennials-are-driving-the-suburban-resurgence
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"Well North of 100k" is quite an understatement of the salary required to send multiple kids to a school like Latin.
Nearly 40% of the school is on scholarship. About 10% pay less than 1,000/year.
That said, you correct... the sticker price is about $35k/year (average of all grades).
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"Well North of 100k" is quite an understatement of the salary required to send multiple kids to a school like Latin.
Much less afford a home in Lakeview or Lincoln Park that's big enough to raise a family.
Median sale price of a four-bedroom home in Lincoln Park is about $1.5 million. It's a bit less in Lakeview.
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Nearly 40% of the school is on scholarship. About 10% pay less than 1,000/year.
That said, you correct... the sticker price is about $35k/year (average of all grades).
Those scholarships aren't going to families earning well north of $100K.
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This is misleading, though, because these private and charter schools can pick and chose the kids they want to educate, and therefore can insure that they're only dealing with high-achieving students (and push out the ones who aren't). Hence, really high SAT scores. Public schools - even the Stevensons and New Triers - have to educate every kid in the district, so they've got 'C' students dragging down their average test scores.
I'm not taking anything away from those others schools. They're all excellent and deserving of their reputations. But comparing their SAT/standardized test scores to public schools is not a fair or relevant comparison.
Another point .... indications are that once millennials get married and have kids, they, like previous generations, are moving to the suburbs. Definitely later in life, and perhaps not at quite the same frequency, but they're still doing it. The notion that they're all going to be urban dwellers is vastly overstated. Certainly some will choose to remain in the city into their late 40s and raise high schoolers there (remember ... they're not having kids until their 30+), most will be out in the burbs just like their parents.
https://www.npr.org/2017/09/15/551232392/as-millennials-get-older-many-are-buying-suvs-to-drive-to-their-suburban-homes
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-25/millennials-are-driving-the-suburban-resurgence
Agree about the self-selection of the private and charter schools. But if you want to send your kid to the best academic school, the private and charter schools are it.
As far as millennial go, I’m referring to those among the 50,000 that Amazon will hire at HQ2 and not the entire cohort.
That why Amazon has cities on their list. Notice that don’t have McDonalds Oakbrook campus on their list.
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Those scholarships aren't going to families earning well north of $100K.
Only if they have three or four kids at the school
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Most millennials are delaying everything. Getting married later. Having kids later.
They'll move out to the suburbs later. But if the housing is cheaper, with a nice yard, and the good schools are public schools instead of the charter and private schools in the city, the vast majority will move and commute like previous generations did.
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Nearly 40% of the school is on scholarship. About 10% pay less than 1,000/year.
That said, you correct... the sticker price is about $35k/year (average of all grades).
Right, so if you're not willing to drop $20k+ on grade school/high school tuition you're likely to move into a good school district on the North Side for 1-8 grades. Then when your kids get to High School, you hope your kid is in the ~5% accepted into Young, Payton, NCP, Jones, or even Lane. Combine that with the fact that if your household income is say ~$200k, your socioeconomic situation will work against you in the application process, but you're still not in a great position to afford private schools.
I would agree that the education situation in the city has gotten better, but to reap the benefits of those elite private schools you mention, you'll need to be making the big bucks.
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That why Amazon has cities on their list. Notice that don’t have McDonalds Oakbrook campus on their list.
The Oak Brook site (as well as the former Motorola campus in Schaumburg) are part of the Chicago bid.
I'd be surprised if Amazon chooses those locations even if they settle on Chicago, but they have not been eliminated because they aren't separate from Chicago.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-biz-amazon-hq2-sites-unveiled-ryan-ori-20171020-story.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-amazon-chicago-locations-handicapped-20171020-htmlstory.html
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Much less afford a home in Lakeview or Lincoln Park that's big enough to raise a family.
Median sale price of a four-bedroom home in Lincoln Park is about $1.5 million. It's a bit less in Lakeview.
You can find more affordable housing. I am closing Thu on a new construction in Avondale for just over $700 which is doable in Chicago. So long as you are along a transit line you can make good investments.
From what I have heard from people who have talked to the Rahm's office the 3 major players were Chicago, DC & Boston. A big point for all 3 cities is the close proximity to great universities. And by hub airport Amazon needs international. One point Rahm's office made was the same one that was Boeing that you can do flight into & out of Chicago from Seattle in 1 day for meetings where the east coast makes that difficult.
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You can find more affordable housing. I am closing Thu on a new construction in Avondale for just over $700 which is doable in Chicago. So long as you are along a transit line you can make good investments.
From what I have heard from people who have talked to the Rahm's office the 3 major players were Chicago, DC & Boston. A big point for all 3 cities is the close proximity to great universities. And by hub airport Amazon needs international. One point Rahm's office made was the same one that was Boeing that you can do flight into & out of Chicago from Seattle in 1 day for meetings where the east coast makes that difficult.
Not for a millenial couple making just over 200k with debt + kids
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You can find more affordable housing. I am closing Thu on a new construction in Avondale for just over $700 which is doable in Chicago. So long as you are along a transit line you can make good investments.
Right, but Heisy specifically mentioned LP and Lakeview, so those were the home prices I mentioned.
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I can confirm that most millennials are not making 100k+ salaries at places like google. I'm sure the ones that are love the cities and the $35K a year private schools. The rest of us are getting housing where we can afford it and sending our kids to public schools.
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I can confirm that most millennials are not making 100k+ salaries at places like google. I'm sure the ones that are love the cities and the $35K a year private schools. The rest of us are getting housing where we can afford it and sending our kids to public schools.
The conversation is funny because the figure "100k+" is so ambiguous and includes people in entirely different economic stratospheres. This would include people making $105k, $250k, $750k, etc. There is a world of difference between each of these groups. Absent significant financial aid, someone making $105k can't even remotely afford a $35k/year private school.
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I can confirm that most millennials are not making 100k+ salaries at places like google. I'm sure the ones that are love the cities and the $35K a year private schools. The rest of us are getting housing where we can afford it and sending our kids to public schools.
Bingo.
Aside from the fact that Heisy's vision seems to be deteriorating, compounding the issue of seeing this reality is the height of Heisy's ivory tower.
As a percentage of the respective generational cohorts, more Millennials live in downtown areas than Gen X, but more Millennials desire to live in the suburbs than Gen X. The only thing that is keeping tens of millions of Millennials from fleeing downtown living is their debt load, which is just beginning to become more manageable for the elder Millennials, and depending on who you listen to, something which the majority of the cohort may see material relief in as little as 3-5 years. Couple this with the window for self-driving cars to begin their push to ubiquity (the most aggressive which believe this is only 5 years away), and be prepared for an exodus to the 'burbs in the early '20s.
A forward-thinking company such as Amazon has already pondered these facts; I'm pretty sure they've acknowledged it. They aren't going to be so presumptuous to make a decision based on the stereotypes that "Millennials want to live downtown" when the truth is something much different.
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Bingo.
Aside from the fact that Heisy's vision seems to be deteriorating, compounding the issue of seeing this reality is the height of Heisy's ivory tower.
As a percentage of the respective generational cohorts, more Millennials live in downtown areas than Gen X, but more Millennials desire to live in the suburbs than Gen X. The only thing that is keeping tens of millions of Millennials from fleeing downtown living is their debt load, which is just beginning to become more manageable for the elder Millennials, and depending on who you listen to, something which the majority of the cohort may see material relief in as little as 3-5 years. Couple this with the window for self-driving cars to begin their push to ubiquity (the most aggressive which believe this is only 5 years away), and be prepared for an exodus to the 'burbs in the early '20s.
A forward-thinking company such as Amazon has already pondered these facts; I'm pretty sure they've acknowledged it. They aren't going to be so presumptuous to make a decision based on the stereotypes that "Millennials want to live downtown" when the truth is something much different.
Exactly, and when they're looking at 50k jobs they're going be looking at the larger metro areas for all these cities. Obviously the immediate city is key to attracting young talent, but I imagine access to surrounding suburbs is key for retaining that talent.
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The conversation is funny because the figure "100k+" is so ambiguous and includes people in entirely different economic stratospheres. This would include people making $105k, $250k, $750k, etc. There is a world of difference between each of these groups. Absent significant financial aid, someone making $105k can't even remotely afford a $35k/year private school.
Also doesn't account for cost of living based on location i.e. $100k spends a lot different in Urban MKE than it does in Urban CHI.
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Exactly, and when they're looking at 50k jobs they're going be looking at the larger metro areas for all these cities. Obviously the immediate city is key to attracting young talent, but I imagine access to surrounding suburbs is key for retaining that talent.
Right on. For example, Amazon has cobbled together some satellite office space in Bellevue, the big eastside suburb of Seattle. The commute across Lake Washington is a real pain even though it’s only a few miles, and suburban-based Microsoft can more easily poach on the convenience factor.
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Herm, not quite. My firm moved from Wacker Drive to the Near West Side solely because our CEO thought is would be a good move to attract Millennials (we're three blocks from our old building). Everything from the interior design to the interior offices is designed to stroke the ego of the Millennial.
They are looking for Millennials, like it or not. Trust me, I could do without a big hunk of 'em (though some are really gifted).
As to a hub airport, Amazon may spark some flights to Seattle, as it did in Milwaukee. But if you want a hub that's truly global, you're probably only considering a half dozen destinations. Of Amazon's group, this would be Newark, Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, Philadelphia and Dallas. No one, and I mean no one, will plunk down a hub in Indianapolis, Nashville or Raleigh given the proximity to Atlanta, Dulles, Chicago or Newark and Philadelphia. Not gonna happen. Airline economics don't work that way.
I recognize some Companies are looking for these millennial people. My company is not because we have customers who depend on us. So we tend to go more for older more responsible individuals. It is hard for someone who has a family depending on them to be flakey. If there is anything we need hipster status for we contract it out . We let the owner of the hipster company be responsible for the deliverable.
I get airline economics as I have flown 5,000,000 miles on various airlines.
Nashville and Raleigh were former American hubs and Indianapolis has the infrastructure and flight structure to easily become one for someone .
http://news.delta.com/tags/indianapolis
At the end of the day whoever gets Amazon will be very happy they got it .
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I get airline economics as I have flown 5,000,000 miles on various airlines.
I eat a lot cheeseburgers. I'm basically a butcher. ;D
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I recognize some Companies are looking for these millennial people. My company is not because we have customers who depend on us. So we tend to go more for older more responsible individuals. It is hard for someone who has a family depending on them to be flakey. If there is anything we need hipster status for we contract it out . We let the owner of the hipster company be responsible for the deliverable.
"These millennial people"...good grief get over yourself. I get that its en vogue to blame them for anything and everything when you're older and embrace the narrative that everything was harder in your day, but you realize they aren't some quirky niche demographic. You just equated hipster and millennial. And then implied Millenials don't have people that depend on them when its a demographic that encompasses people 30-35 right now.
That whole paragraph reads like a mad lib
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N/A
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So what I’m reading in everyone’s comments is they really do not want to live in the burbs but are forced there becuase they cannot afford the more desirable urban/city area.
But I would argue that, in the end, the housing market is far more efficient than you think. What you save in money and tuition you give away in quality of life and opportunity (urban dwellers have no restrictions to switching jobs in the city. Suburban dwellers automatically limit their opportunities to their method of commuting and distance from the city center).
I would argue that millennials making good coin would rather spend it to stay in the city and keep their quality of life as high as possible. That is why urban areas are doing better than the “inner suburbs” and the outer suburbs are just too limiting.
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So what I’m reading in everyone’s comments is they really do not want to live in the burbs but are forced there becuase they cannot afford the more desirable urban/city area.
But I would argue that, in the end, the housing market is far more efficient than you think. What you save in money and tuition you give away in quality of life and opportunity (urban dwellers have no restrictions to switching jobs in the city. Suburban dwellers automatically limit their opportunities to their method of commuting and distance from the city center).
I would argue that millennials making good coin would rather spend it to stay in the city and keep their quality of life as high as possible. That is why urban areas are doing better than the “inner suburbs” and the outer suburbs are just too limiting.
Job opportunities can actually be better in the suburbs than the city with access to good commuter rail. And quality of life is relative to where you are in life. For a lot of people they get the most out of city living (entertainment, dining culture etc) but they get to a point where quality of life is more about getting your kids to and from school and soccer practice than it is about going to a hot restaurant or a concert.
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I recognize some Companies are looking for these millennial people. My company is not because we have customers who depend on us. So we tend to go more for older more responsible individuals. It is hard for someone who has a family depending on them to be flakey. If there is anything we need hipster status for we contract it out . We let the owner of the hipster company be responsible for the deliverable.
I get airline economics as I have flown 5,000,000 miles on various airlines.
Nashville and Raleigh were former American hubs.
We see how well American liked those hubs, though I suspect they may be having some heartburn over surrendering Nashville to Southwest.
I'm about half your number of miles. 1.4 million on one airline
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Job opportunities can actually be better in the suburbs than the city with access to good commuter rail. And quality of life is relative to where you are in life. For a lot of people they get the most out of city living (entertainment, dining culture etc) but they get to a point where quality of life is more about getting your kids to and from school and soccer practice than it is about going to a hot restaurant or a concert.
Sounds like your trying to convince yourself moving to the burbs was a good idea.
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Sounds like your trying to convince yourself moving to the burbs was a good idea.
Sounds to me like LAZER is simply saying the same thing that people have been saying for generations...it's really cool to live in urban areas when you're young and don't have kids, but once the kids come the suburbs start looking really attractive. This is not a new phenomenon.
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Sounds like your trying to convince yourself moving to the burbs was a good idea.
Haven't moved yet and don't have kids, but admittedly I will move once my unborn kids get to around 1st grade and I think I'll be able to stomach a 30 minute Metra ride in for work. Like the millions of people that have done it before me and the millions that will do it after me.
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Sounds like your trying to convince yourself moving to the burbs was a good idea.
No it sounds like he realizes that different people have different priorities at different times of their lives. And they don't all fit into the nice little box in which you want to place them.
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So what I’m reading in everyone’s comments is they really do not want to live in the burbs but are forced there becuase they cannot afford the more desirable urban/city area.
But I would argue that, in the end, the housing market is far more efficient than you think. What you save in money and tuition you give away in quality of life and opportunity (urban dwellers have no restrictions to switching jobs in the city. Suburban dwellers automatically limit their opportunities to their method of commuting and distance from the city center).
I would argue that millennials making good coin would rather spend it to stay in the city and keep their quality of life as high as possible. That is why urban areas are doing better than the “inner suburbs” and the outer suburbs are just too limiting.
I'm sure some of that is true, financial need forces a lot of people away from where they want to live. I wouldn't say it's true for all us millennials though. The idea of living in the city sounds terrible to me. I like being close to the city but would rather stick to the burbs so I can visit when I want and not deal with it when I don't want to. And I grew up in the city.
Us millennials are the most diverse generation to date (though iGen will pass us). While there are general themes that apply to us as a generation there are so many diverse sub cultures that any argument that contains absolutes it's just wrong.
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While there are general themes that apply to us as a generation there are so many diverse sub cultures that any argument that contains absolutes it's just wrong.
Brother TAMU, you could not be more right. This is a diverse generation culturally, economically and socially. I do think they're a lot like we Boomers were in the 1970s and 1980s -- out to change the world into our own vision. Eventually, we did.
To an earlier notion that Millennials will not put up with bad urban government and the problems that plague most big city governments, balderdash. In Chicago, Governing the State of Illinois is brought to you by 7,000 Southwest Side residents who are "fortunate" enough to be able to vote for Mike Madigan and the hundreds of property tax appeal lawyers who profit from a corrupt and discriminatory assessment system that funds "Friends of Mike Madigan."
Since the 1920s, we've had two revolutions in Chicago. One was when Martin Kennelly was elected Mayor in 1951. He was an administrator who brought professional management to the city. That idea beget Richard J. Daley. The second was a 1979 series of snowstorms that exposed the incompetence of Chicago City Workers and brought us Lady Jane Byrne. That lasted one term too and brought us Harold. When Mayor Washington died, we ended up with another Daley for 22 years and then the infamous Rahmfather.
If you believe Millennials will change Chicago or Illinois government, send your contributions to the Scoopers for Dgies for President, 1 Richard Nixon Way, Watergate, IL.
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Brother TAMU, you could not be more right. This is a diverse generation culturally, economically and socially. I do think they're a lot like we Boomers were in the 1970s and 1980s -- out to change the world into our own vision. Eventually, we did.
You did???
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You did???
Collectively Boomer generation did. They caused millenials and they also caused all of the positives that have occurred as well. Boomers are still driving societal change (they are transforming the healthcare industry as an example). It's not like there is some master plan but the Boomer generation by shear volume is changing the world. Millennials will do the same(gig economy, etc).
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Job opportunities can actually be better in the suburbs than the city with access to good commuter rail. And quality of life is relative to where you are in life. For a lot of people they get the most out of city living (entertainment, dining culture etc) but they get to a point where quality of life is more about getting your kids to and from school and soccer practice than it is about going to a hot restaurant or a concert.
There's such a thing as a middle ground you don't need to live 30miles out of the city to have a backyard, access to good schools and a place for soccer practice and still maintain an urban feel. Plus keeping it close to the city avoids the obnoxious "bored teenager" phase since there comes a time where those kids want to go to a concert or hot restaurant (especially now that malls only exist in mythology)
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Brother TAMU, you could not be more right. This is a diverse generation culturally, economically and socially. I do think they're a lot like we Boomers were in the 1970s and 1980s -- out to change the world into our own vision. Eventually, we did.
I'd be fascinated to see this fleshed out.
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Brother TAMU, you could not be more right. This is a diverse generation culturally, economically and socially. I do think they're a lot like we Boomers were in the 1970s and 1980s -- out to change the world into our own vision. Eventually, we did.
To an earlier notion that Millennials will not put up with bad urban government and the problems that plague most big city governments, balderdash. In Chicago, Governing the State of Illinois is brought to you by 7,000 Southwest Side residents who are "fortunate" enough to be able to vote for Mike Madigan and the hundreds of property tax appeal lawyers who profit from a corrupt and discriminatory assessment system that funds "Friends of Mike Madigan."
Since the 1920s, we've had two revolutions in Chicago. One was when Martin Kennelly was elected Mayor in 1951. He was an administrator who brought professional management to the city. That idea beget Richard J. Daley. The second was a 1979 series of snowstorms that exposed the incompetence of Chicago City Workers and brought us Lady Jane Byrne. That lasted one term too and brought us Harold. When Mayor Washington died, we ended up with another Daley for 22 years and then the infamous Rahmfather.
If you believe Millennials will change Chicago or Illinois government, send your contributions to the Scoopers for Dgies for President, 1 Richard Nixon Way, Watergate, IL.
Gee, thanks a lot.
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https://twitter.com/fountainofbrett/status/954506700249157632
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I'd be fascinated to see this fleshed out.
Probably the biggest change Boomers did was to ask, "Why?"
Our parents did what they were supposed to do because, "It was what we do." They weren't apathetic as much as they were into a social system that valued conformity.
We came along and questioned everything. From wars to discrimination to political, economic and social, our generation did a more thorough job of questioning the core of our economic, cultural and organization structures. The questioning drove people nuts in many cases and, indeed, as ATL Warrior pointed out, led many to say, "thanks a lot."
Without the "why," the world would be a different place. Undoubtedly, when IBM ruled the world, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates asked, "why?" and came up with the personal computer. The rest was history.
We ended a war and chased Tricky Dick off because we asked, "why?"
We refined communications and distribution systems that spread the word. As a result, communism died.
Perhaps some of the reason why organized religion is having the problems it has is that too many people are asking, "why?"
Just a few thoughts....
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i'm not quite sure yet if the millenials are risk takers or have enough of them to make a difference. they seem to have grown up during the evolution of protection and trophies.
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Probably the biggest change Boomers did was to ask, "Why?"
Our parents did what they were supposed to do because, "It was what we do." They weren't apathetic as much as they were into a social system that valued conformity.
We came along and questioned everything. From wars to discrimination to political, economic and social, our generation did a more thorough job of questioning the core of our economic, cultural and organization structures. The questioning drove people nuts in many cases and, indeed, as ATL Warrior pointed out, led many to say, "thanks a lot."
Without the "why," the world would be a different place. Undoubtedly, when IBM ruled the world, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates asked, "why?" and came up with the personal computer. The rest was history.
We ended a war and chased Tricky Dick off because we asked, "why?"
We refined communications and distribution systems that spread the word. As a result, communism died.
Perhaps some of the reason why organized religion is having the problems it has is that too many people are asking, "why?"
Just a few thoughts....
How do you correlate all these wonderful questions of "why" with a generation that created a disposable way of living? Continued the indulgence of a military-industrial complex? Raped the natural resources of the country without regard to long term impact? Played a vital role in the creation of a more isolated society through their parenting techniques? Grew increasingly closed-minded with regard to societal and cultural changes?
Side note: the reason religion has had trouble is because the conduits of those faiths brutally abused, raped, and molested children of various ages without consequence for decades. It had nothing to do with you asking "why?"
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i'm not quite sure yet if the millenials are risk takers or have enough of them to make a difference. they seem to have grown up during the evolution of protection and trophies.
Millenials are fine. People always have angst and worry about the next generation, but they end up finding their way. They are no different.
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i'm not quite sure yet if the millenials are risk takers or have enough of them to make a difference. they seem to have grown up during the evolution of protection and trophies.
LOL, this is f*cking awesome
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How do you correlate all these wonderful questions of "why" with a generation that created a disposable way of living? Continued the indulgence of a military-industrial complex? Raped the natural resources of the country without regard to long term impact? Played a vital role in the creation of a more isolated society through their parenting techniques? Grew increasingly closed-minded with regard to societal and cultural changes?
Gosh is it nice to be loved!
We have to be proud of something!!!!
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i'm not quite sure yet if the millenials are risk takers or have enough of them to make a difference. they seem to have grown up during the evolution of protection and trophies.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/27EhcDHnlkw1O/giphy.gif)
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/27EhcDHnlkw1O/giphy.gif)
And gifs!
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Probably the biggest change Boomers did was to ask, "Why?"
Our parents did what they were supposed to do because, "It was what we do." They weren't apathetic as much as they were into a social system that valued conformity.
We came along and questioned everything. From wars to discrimination to political, economic and social, our generation did a more thorough job of questioning the core of our economic, cultural and organization structures. The questioning drove people nuts in many cases and, indeed, as ATL Warrior pointed out, led many to say, "thanks a lot."
Without the "why," the world would be a different place. Undoubtedly, when IBM ruled the world, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates asked, "why?" and came up with the personal computer. The rest was history.
We ended a war and chased Tricky Dick off because we asked, "why?"
We refined communications and distribution systems that spread the word. As a result, communism died.
Perhaps some of the reason why organized religion is having the problems it has is that too many people are asking, "why?"
Just a few thoughts....
The IBM PC dominated the market for many years. Gates developed Windows which was the operating system for the PC. Apple was more hype than economic substance for a long time. The products were not mainstream in business. Of course The advent of I Tunes, I Pod, etc led to the I Phone and more acceptance of Apple Computing products and the rest is history.
I got lucky when I bought my position in Apple . My basis is 1.15 ,At the time I thought they were a value stock of all things. I tunes took off and the rest was history.
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Galloway said he has been on the board of a dozen public and private companies that have searched for an HQ2. He said there is really only one criterion that this decision is made on, where does the CEO want to spend more time.
Galloway said Jeff Bezos is 53 and worth $105 billion. He will have to spend 60 to 100 days a year at HQ2. You think he wants to spend that much time in Indy or Nashville? So Galloway thinks the decision is made and it is either NYC or DC.
Galloway also thinks Amazon already knows what city they want and they are trying to get the cities to one-up each other so the winning city is handed the best deal and told: "match this and you win."
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/25/amazon-is-creating-hunger-games-environment-for-hq2-finalists-nyus-scott-galloway.html
Scott Galloway, NYU Stern School of Business marketing professor, discusses Amazon pitting cities against one another as the company chooses its second headquarters home.
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I Found this after I posted my comment. Oh, and I left out the trend that millennials, as a group, seem not to like sex much either-maybe because of the trophy thing or the wood chips/rubber mat phenomenon under the monkey, wait, parallel bars? Probably cuz it could be a little dangerous? This is what the internet will do to ya I guess. Oh, They must mean with other people though, or something😳
https://www.livescience.com/38061-millennials-generation-y.html
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Galloway said he has been on the board of a dozen public and private companies that have searched for an HQ2. He said there is really only one criterion that this decision is made on, where does the CEO want to spend more time.
Galloway said Jeff Bezos is 53 and worth $105 billion. He will have to spend 60 to 100 days a year at HQ2. You think he wants to spend that much time in Indy or Nashville? So Galloway thinks the decision is made and it is either NYC or DC.
Galloway also thinks Amazon already knows what city they want and they are trying to get the cities to one-up each other so the winning city is handed the best deal and told: "match this and you win."
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/01/25/amazon-is-creating-hunger-games-environment-for-hq2-finalists-nyus-scott-galloway.html
Scott Galloway, NYU Stern School of Business marketing professor, discusses Amazon pitting cities against one another as the company chooses its second headquarters home.
Here is an article that outlines where Bezos has homes.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-bezos-owns-five-massive-homes-across-the-united-states-2017-10/#washington-dc-6
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The white-hot Fulton Market District in Chicago had two announcements today (again west of the loop and the new home of McDonald's. One block west of Halsted is Green Street, the epicenter of this neighborhood) ...
This is arguably the hottest office market in the nation, one of the most popular destinations for educated millennials in the country.
This is the neighborhood that has many "pooh-bahs" in Chicago thinking they will snag Amazon because it is so desirable right now. (again, many in Chicago think Amazon is going to announce more than one HQ2, maybe 3 or 4, and if they are correct, they think it is a lock one of them is Chicago and this neighborhood in particular.)
Do not think all of this is a new under 30 playground before they bail for Mount Prospect. Even without Amazon, this is a serious money bet that this generation is more "urban" and planning on sticking around?
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This was announced this morning ...
Developer unveils plans for Fulton Market high-rises
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20180130/CRED03/180139969#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-morning10&utm_campaign=ccb-morning10-20180131
With developers piling into the Fulton Market District, city officials now face a key question: How tall is too tall?
The answer may become more clear this week after Chicago developer Related Midwest presents plans for two high-rises there, one rising 51 stories and the other, 58. The towers would be the tallest in the fast-growing neighborhood, dwarfing its many historic low-rise structures and even buildings developed there the last few years.
Then this afternoon ...
Chicago developer unwraps second West Loop tower
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20180131/CRED03/180139940/chicago-developer-unwraps-second-west-loop-tower#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180131
The Chicago developer wants to construct the 680-foot tower on Randolph Street just west of the Kennedy, on the edge of the Fulton Market neighborhood. Designed by Roger Ferris & Partners, the project would include a 165-room Equinox Hotel, a 30,000-square-foot Equinox health club and 370 apartments.
And before these three towers (the three tallest building in the midwest not in the Loop or along Michigan Ave), this was announced in November ...
17-story office tower planned at 167 N. Green Street in Chicago’s Fulton Market
The project will need to amend a previously approved plan for an office building at Lake and Halsted
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/11/21/16684808/fulton-market-office-tower-development
And this is December ...
Developer plans three office towers, movie theater at former Coyne College site
Sterling Bay is doubling down on the booming West Loop
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/12/12/16769452/west-loop-development-sterling-bay-office-high-rise
The plan would involve tearing down the Coyne College building at 330 N. Green Street for a 20-story office tower with ground floor retail. The parking lot across from the shuttered school would give way to a glassy 19-story office tower designed by SOM. The vacant lot to the north at 360 N. Green is earmarked for a 21-story office building. Each new structure is expected to include “hundreds” of parking spaces.
Sterling Bay also proposes a nine-story building at 345 N. Morgan—just north of its newly-opened Ace Hotel. Designed by Gensler, ground-floor would include ground-floor retail and multiple levels of parking topped by an eight-screen movie theater. It could open by early 2020
And this across the street from the one above (announced in September) ....
Details emerge regarding 24-story office tower planned for West Loop parking lot
While no approvals have been granted, the project’s developer hopes to welcome tenants by 2020
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/9/27/16327062/fulton-market-office-high-rise-development-coyne-college
The dramatic transformation of Chicago’s Fulton Market from meatpacking district to emerging office market is poised to take another step forward as more details emerge regarding a proposed 24-story tower planned for the former Coyne College parking lot at 333 N. Green Street.
While prominent West Loop developer Sterling Bay previously made its intentions to redevelop the parking lot quite clear, a series of renderings and a stacking plan obtained by DNAinfo Chicago provide a first look at the glass and metal clad tower. In addition to thirteen floors of rentable office space, the images also show a two-story lobby, ground floor retail space, several levels of parking, a 7th floor amenity deck, and outdoor terraces on floors 15 and 22.
And finally this one on Lake and Halsted (also Announced In November)
Fulton Market office plan doubles in size
The 17-story project will feature a publicly accessible pedestrian promenade on its ground floor
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/11/30/16719546/fulton-market-office-development-mews
A previously-approved Fulton Market office project at the corner of Lake and Halsted is back with an all new and much larger design. The changes are a result of a joint venture comprising of Shapack Partners and Focus Development acquiring an additional parcel along Green Street. Previously owned by Bridgford Foods, the piece was earmarked for a five-story boutique office building as part of Bridgford’s future mixed-use redevelopment plan.
The bigger footprint has allowed Shapack and Focus to ditch plans for a smaller 14-story office structure known as 176 N. Halsted for a considerably more dense building. Clad in brick, metal, and glass, the now 17-story design has grown to 725,000 square feet. Parking has also increased from around 50 spaces to 129, but is visually concealed deep within the structure
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The white-hot Fulton Market District in Chicago had two announcements today (again west of the loop and the new home of McDonald's. One block west of Halsted is Green Street, the epicenter of this neighborhood) ...
This is arguably the hottest office market in the nation, one of the most popular destinations for educated millennials in the country.
This is the neighborhood that has many "pooh-bahs" in Chicago thinking they will snag Amazon because it is so desirable right now. (again, many in Chicago think Amazon is going to announce more than one HQ2, maybe 3 or 4, and if they are correct, they think it is a lock one of them is Chicago and this neighborhood in particular.)
Do not think all of this is a new under 30 playground before they bail for Mount Prospect. Even without Amazon, this is a serious money bet that this generation is more "urban" and planning on sticking around?
---------------
This was announced this morning ...
Developer unveils plans for Fulton Market high-rises
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20180130/CRED03/180139969#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-morning10&utm_campaign=ccb-morning10-20180131
With developers piling into the Fulton Market District, city officials now face a key question: How tall is too tall?
The answer may become more clear this week after Chicago developer Related Midwest presents plans for two high-rises there, one rising 51 stories and the other, 58. The towers would be the tallest in the fast-growing neighborhood, dwarfing its many historic low-rise structures and even buildings developed there the last few years.
Then this afternoon ...
Chicago developer unwraps second West Loop tower
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20180131/CRED03/180139940/chicago-developer-unwraps-second-west-loop-tower#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180131
The Chicago developer wants to construct the 680-foot tower on Randolph Street just west of the Kennedy, on the edge of the Fulton Market neighborhood. Designed by Roger Ferris & Partners, the project would include a 165-room Equinox Hotel, a 30,000-square-foot Equinox health club and 370 apartments.
And before these three towers (the three tallest building in the midwest not in the Loop or along Michigan Ave), this was announced in November ...
17-story office tower planned at 167 N. Green Street in Chicago’s Fulton Market
The project will need to amend a previously approved plan for an office building at Lake and Halsted
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/11/21/16684808/fulton-market-office-tower-development
And this is December ...
Developer plans three office towers, movie theater at former Coyne College site
Sterling Bay is doubling down on the booming West Loop
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/12/12/16769452/west-loop-development-sterling-bay-office-high-rise
The plan would involve tearing down the Coyne College building at 330 N. Green Street for a 20-story office tower with ground floor retail. The parking lot across from the shuttered school would give way to a glassy 19-story office tower designed by SOM. The vacant lot to the north at 360 N. Green is earmarked for a 21-story office building. Each new structure is expected to include “hundreds” of parking spaces.
Sterling Bay also proposes a nine-story building at 345 N. Morgan—just north of its newly-opened Ace Hotel. Designed by Gensler, ground-floor would include ground-floor retail and multiple levels of parking topped by an eight-screen movie theater. It could open by early 2020
And this across the street from the one above (announced in September) ....
Details emerge regarding 24-story office tower planned for West Loop parking lot
While no approvals have been granted, the project’s developer hopes to welcome tenants by 2020
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/9/27/16327062/fulton-market-office-high-rise-development-coyne-college
The dramatic transformation of Chicago’s Fulton Market from meatpacking district to emerging office market is poised to take another step forward as more details emerge regarding a proposed 24-story tower planned for the former Coyne College parking lot at 333 N. Green Street.
While prominent West Loop developer Sterling Bay previously made its intentions to redevelop the parking lot quite clear, a series of renderings and a stacking plan obtained by DNAinfo Chicago provide a first look at the glass and metal clad tower. In addition to thirteen floors of rentable office space, the images also show a two-story lobby, ground floor retail space, several levels of parking, a 7th floor amenity deck, and outdoor terraces on floors 15 and 22.
And finally this one on Lake and Halsted (also Announced In November)
Fulton Market office plan doubles in size
The 17-story project will feature a publicly accessible pedestrian promenade on its ground floor
https://chicago.curbed.com/2017/11/30/16719546/fulton-market-office-development-mews
A previously-approved Fulton Market office project at the corner of Lake and Halsted is back with an all new and much larger design. The changes are a result of a joint venture comprising of Shapack Partners and Focus Development acquiring an additional parcel along Green Street. Previously owned by Bridgford Foods, the piece was earmarked for a five-story boutique office building as part of Bridgford’s future mixed-use redevelopment plan.
The bigger footprint has allowed Shapack and Focus to ditch plans for a smaller 14-story office structure known as 176 N. Halsted for a considerably more dense building. Clad in brick, metal, and glass, the now 17-story design has grown to 725,000 square feet. Parking has also increased from around 50 spaces to 129, but is visually concealed deep within the structure
The food and bars down there are incredible. Plus you've already got the beginnings of a tech area with that google office
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I was in downtown Denver the other day. Hadn't been there for many years. Was impressed by what they have done. They have a nice light rail system that actually runs frequently and goes where people want to go.
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Late to the conversation.
Charlotte was one of the cities supposedly in the running for HQ2 but ended up not even being a finalist. Leaders here were especially miffed that Raleigh made the cut instead of Charlotte. I am not invested in the decision at all, and frankly I am sick of reading/hearing about it (though I understand why others are interested in it).
I am more interested in the related conversation about living in urban areas such as Chicago.
We lived in the city for 16 years - 1994 to 2010. It was not just a good place to raise kids, but a GREAT place. They went to wonderful, diverse schools; learned how to get along with people of all races, creeds, religions, nationalities and gender identifications; learned how to take public transportation and otherwise fend for themselves; benefited from the many things to do; etc. My son, now 30, still lives there with the woman he will be marrying next month. She teaches school in Northbrook and he works in Westchester, but they prefer to live in the city - yep, they are among the thousands and thousands of "reverse commuters." I think my son would rather stay in the city forever, but his wife-to-be was raised in the burbs and I'm guessing they'll be suburbanites after they have kids.
We were fortunate to move to Chicago when a house in a good neighborhood could still be purchased by a middle-class family. We bought our tiny, 3BR, 1-bath bungalow (yep, for a family of 4!) near Lane Tech for $230K in 1994. That house has since been sold a couple of times, most recently a few years ago for nearly $1 million. (Although we did well when we sold it in 2004, we would have been much smarter to keep it as a rental property or something.) So yeah, it's tough to afford decent housing in some of the better neighborhoods nowadays.
As mentioned by LAZER and maybe a couple others, there are some great magnet schools - my kids attended Payton, part of their second and third graduating classes - but you have to test into them, and there are other factors in getting into them, too. Due to its size, Lane is easier to get into, but it's still not a slam dunk.
So it's perfectly understandable why many would choose the burbs for more affordable housing and more available good schooling. It's a shame, though, because the nice parts of Chicago make for such a great environment for kids.
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I was in downtown Denver the other day. Hadn't been there for many years. Was impressed by what they have done. They have a nice light rail system that actually runs frequently and goes where people want to go.
I live in Denver and I doubt Amazon comes here. First, I assume they would want HQ2 further east. Just my hunch. Second, I don't think Denver is as hungry for Amazon as the other cities are. Most here are luke warm on the idea. We have amazing growth as it is. This is a great place to live, great schools, great economy, stable state budget, low crime. Frankly we don't need Amazon. If they come it will be good but Colorado will be just fine without Amazon.
p.s. The residents of Colorado would appreciate you not telling anyone what I wrote above. We think there are enough people here already.
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Tech salaries in LA and Austin are catching up with Silicon Valley
Silicon Valley is notorious for its stratospheric tech salaries and cost of living to match. But a new tech salary report released by jobs site Hired.com on Thursday indicates that companies in tech hubs elsewhere, such as Los Angeles and Austin, are quietly raising salaries to become more competitive.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tech-salaries-la-austin-catching-silicon-valley-130049739.html
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I figured that this may be as good a spot as any to post this.
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Amazon bout to dominate another market
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/amazon-is-getting-ready-to-launch-a-delivery-service-to-compete-with-ups-and-fedex-as-jeff-bezos-continues-his-plan-for-world-domination
Yes, I know this came out last week
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Amazon bout to dominate another market
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/amazon-is-getting-ready-to-launch-a-delivery-service-to-compete-with-ups-and-fedex-as-jeff-bezos-continues-his-plan-for-world-domination
Yes, I know this came out last week
Will it be as successful and the Fire phone?
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Will it be as successful and the Fire phone?
Or as dominant and the echo?
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55514.msg986078#msg986078
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There are some great magnet schools - my kids attended Payton, part of their second and third graduating classes - but you have to test into them, and there are other factors in getting into them, too.
That is called supporting your alderman!
I agree with what you say, but I would note that when my two children went to Libertyville High School, we didn't worry about testing or whether they would get in. It was and is a world class public education. Trust me -- we pay through the nose for it!
Plus, our children had learning disabilities (they were adopted from orphanages overseas) and for LD students, the Chicago Public Schools are not viable answers. There was no way our children could have received the help they needed from CPS if we had lived in Chicago. Period! The support they received at LHS was routine.
So good was Libertyville that my daughter is about to be graduated from college and my son is almost halfway through.
I agree that living in Chicago opens more eyes and gives a broader exposure to people who have different customs, thoughts and views about the world. That's the good side. But the incompetence in city government, rampart waste, crime concerns and uncertain affordability makes the downside real for many people. Yeah, my suburb is boring. But it is reasonably well run, crime is low and it is close to both Milwaukee and Chicago if we want to go into the city (and we often do).
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That is called supporting your alderman!
I agree with what you say, but I would note that when my two children went to Libertyville High School, we didn't worry about testing or whether they would get in. It was and is a world class public education. Trust me -- we pay through the nose for it!
Plus, our children had learning disabilities (they were adopted from orphanages overseas) and for LD students, the Chicago Public Schools are not viable answers. There was no way our children could have received the help they needed from CPS if we had lived in Chicago. Period! The support they received at LHS was routine.
So good was Libertyville that my daughter is about to be graduated from college and my son is almost halfway through.
I agree that living in Chicago opens more eyes and gives a broader exposure to people who have different customs, thoughts and views about the world. That's the good side. But the incompetence in city government, rampart waste, crime concerns and uncertain affordability makes the downside real for many people. Yeah, my suburb is boring. But it is reasonably well run, crime is low and it is close to both Milwaukee and Chicago if we want to go into the city (and we often do).
And just a few miles north, Warren Township and Lindenhurst also offer tremendous support for LD and special needs students without the Libertyville price tag. Plenty of housing options in/around Wildwood & Gages Lake for working class households.
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That is called supporting your alderman!
I agree with what you say, but I would note that when my two children went to Libertyville High School, we didn't worry about testing or whether they would get in. It was and is a world class public education. Trust me -- we pay through the nose for it!
Plus, our children had learning disabilities (they were adopted from orphanages overseas) and for LD students, the Chicago Public Schools are not viable answers. There was no way our children could have received the help they needed from CPS if we had lived in Chicago. Period! The support they received at LHS was routine.
So good was Libertyville that my daughter is about to be graduated from college and my son is almost halfway through.
I agree that living in Chicago opens more eyes and gives a broader exposure to people who have different customs, thoughts and views about the world. That's the good side. But the incompetence in city government, rampart waste, crime concerns and uncertain affordability makes the downside real for many people. Yeah, my suburb is boring. But it is reasonably well run, crime is low and it is close to both Milwaukee and Chicago if we want to go into the city (and we often do).
I can't argue with a single word you say here. You obviously made the right choice for your family. Congratulations for their success. You and your wife clearly are great parents!
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I can't argue with a single word you say here. You obviously made the right choice for your family. Congratulations for their success. You and your wife clearly are great parents!
Thank you. That was kind of you to say.
Please understand we're not criticizing anyone's choices. We're actually thinking about moving into the city after our children move out and move on (after college). The things that appeal to you appeal to us as well and we're trying to figure out how to get what we want for a price commensurate with our suburban home.
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I Found this after I posted my comment. Oh, and I left out the trend that millennials, as a group, seem not to like sex much either-maybe because of the trophy thing or the wood chips/rubber mat phenomenon under the monkey, wait, parallel bars? Probably cuz it could be a little dangerous? This is what the internet will do to ya I guess. Oh, They must mean with other people though, or something😳
https://www.livescience.com/38061-millennials-generation-y.html
Do your posts make sense to you?
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This is fantastic! Whatever “sell your soul” deal you give to Amazon, JP Morgan wants the same or they are leaving your state.
Imagine Chicago sells their soul to get HQ2. Then JP Morgan, who has their Midwest Chase operations headquartered in Chicago wants to same sell you soul deal. If not, the new Midwest HQ for JP Morgan is Indy!
After them, these Fortune 500 companies with HQs in Chicago will want the same sell your soul deal or, Hello Milwaukee!
Walgreens Boots Alliance.
Archer Daniels Midland.
Boeing.
Caterpillar Inc.
State Farm Insurance.
Abbott Laboratories.
Sears Holdings.
McDonalds
United Continental Holdings.
So congratulations you won Amazon. Your reward is you bankrupted your City!!!
I love it when someone is outsmarted at their own game.
Dimon says he'll fight for tax breaks Amazon gets for HQ2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180227/NEWS01/180229905/dimon-says-hell-fight-for-tax-breaks-amazon-gets-for-hq2#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180227
Jamie Dimon wants the Jeff Bezos deal.
The CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., which employs more than 250,000 workers, said he'll call the governor of whichever state Amazon.com Inc. picks for its second headquarters and try to get the same benefits.
“I'm not kidding,” Dimon said. “You gotta fight for your company, folks, just keep that in mind. If you don't, no one else does."
Governors, mayors and bureaucrats across the U.S. and Canada have rolled out tax breaks and marketing campaigns to try to win Seattle-based Amazon's second corporate seat, a project that's expected to cost more than $5 billion and create 50,000 high-paying jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. Amazon narrowed the list to 20 cities last month and plans to make a decision this year.
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This is fantastic! Whatever “sell your soul” deal you give to Amazon, JP Morgan wants the same or they are leaving your state.
Imagine Chicago sells their soul to get HQ2. Then JP Morgan, who has their Midwest Chase operations headquartered in Chicago wants to same sell you soul deal. If not, the new Midwest HQ for JP Morgan is Indy!
After them, these Fortune 500 companies with HQs in Chicago will want the same sell your soul deal or, Hello Milwaukee!
Walgreens Boots Alliance.
Archer Daniels Midland.
Boeing.
Caterpillar Inc.
State Farm Insurance.
Abbott Laboratories.
Sears Holdings.
McDonalds
United Continental Holdings.
So congratulations you won Amazon. Your reward is you bankrupted your City!!!
I love it when someone is outsmarted at their own game.
Dimon says he'll fight for tax breaks Amazon gets for HQ2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180227/NEWS01/180229905/dimon-says-hell-fight-for-tax-breaks-amazon-gets-for-hq2#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180227
Jamie Dimon wants the Jeff Bezos deal.
The CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., which employs more than 250,000 workers, said he'll call the governor of whichever state Amazon.com Inc. picks for its second headquarters and try to get the same benefits.
“I'm not kidding,” Dimon said. “You gotta fight for your company, folks, just keep that in mind. If you don't, no one else does."
Governors, mayors and bureaucrats across the U.S. and Canada have rolled out tax breaks and marketing campaigns to try to win Seattle-based Amazon's second corporate seat, a project that's expected to cost more than $5 billion and create 50,000 high-paying jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. Amazon narrowed the list to 20 cities last month and plans to make a decision this year.
Ah yes, the good ol Joe-Flacco Effect (A-Rod: "Well hell, if Flacco is getting $20 mil, I want $25)
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This is fantastic! Whatever “sell your soul” deal you give to Amazon, JP Morgan wants the same or they are leaving your state.
Imagine Chicago sells their soul to get HQ2. Then JP Morgan, who has their Midwest Chase operations headquartered in Chicago wants to same sell you soul deal. If not, the new Midwest HQ for JP Morgan is Indy!
After them, these Fortune 500 companies with HQs in Chicago will want the same sell your soul deal or, Hello Milwaukee!
Walgreens Boots Alliance.
Archer Daniels Midland.
Boeing.
Caterpillar Inc.
State Farm Insurance.
Abbott Laboratories.
Sears Holdings.
McDonalds
United Continental Holdings.
So congratulations you won Amazon. Your reward is you bankrupted your City!!!
I love it when someone is outsmarted at their own game.
Dimon says he'll fight for tax breaks Amazon gets for HQ2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180227/NEWS01/180229905/dimon-says-hell-fight-for-tax-breaks-amazon-gets-for-hq2#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180227
Jamie Dimon wants the Jeff Bezos deal.
The CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., which employs more than 250,000 workers, said he'll call the governor of whichever state Amazon.com Inc. picks for its second headquarters and try to get the same benefits.
“I'm not kidding,” Dimon said. “You gotta fight for your company, folks, just keep that in mind. If you don't, no one else does."
Governors, mayors and bureaucrats across the U.S. and Canada have rolled out tax breaks and marketing campaigns to try to win Seattle-based Amazon's second corporate seat, a project that's expected to cost more than $5 billion and create 50,000 high-paying jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. Amazon narrowed the list to 20 cities last month and plans to make a decision this year.
Morons (the cities). I mean, no more-so than any other tax credits/breaks/etc. Just this time it's extreme and public.
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I still can't believe the pundits haven't caught on to this already. It's a three horse race - both literally (in the semi-figurative, or literally figurative sense) and figuratively - between DC, DC and DC.
CNBC can't go thirty minutes without some mention of "Amazon" and "anti-trust" in the same sentence.
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This is fantastic! Whatever “sell your soul” deal you give to Amazon, JP Morgan wants the same or they are leaving your state.
Imagine Chicago sells their soul to get HQ2. Then JP Morgan, who has their Midwest Chase operations headquartered in Chicago wants to same sell you soul deal. If not, the new Midwest HQ for JP Morgan is Indy!
After them, these Fortune 500 companies with HQs in Chicago will want the same sell your soul deal or, Hello Milwaukee!
Walgreens Boots Alliance.
Archer Daniels Midland.
Boeing.
Caterpillar Inc.
State Farm Insurance.
Abbott Laboratories.
Sears Holdings.
McDonalds
United Continental Holdings.
So congratulations you won Amazon. Your reward is you bankrupted your City!!!
I love it when someone is outsmarted at their own game.
Dimon says he'll fight for tax breaks Amazon gets for HQ2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180227/NEWS01/180229905/dimon-says-hell-fight-for-tax-breaks-amazon-gets-for-hq2#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180227
Jamie Dimon wants the Jeff Bezos deal.
The CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., which employs more than 250,000 workers, said he'll call the governor of whichever state Amazon.com Inc. picks for its second headquarters and try to get the same benefits.
“I'm not kidding,” Dimon said. “You gotta fight for your company, folks, just keep that in mind. If you don't, no one else does."
Governors, mayors and bureaucrats across the U.S. and Canada have rolled out tax breaks and marketing campaigns to try to win Seattle-based Amazon's second corporate seat, a project that's expected to cost more than $5 billion and create 50,000 high-paying jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. Amazon narrowed the list to 20 cities last month and plans to make a decision this year.
Wow, Smuggles, you'd think you never heard of "the free market" before!
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Wow, Smuggles, you'd think you never heard of "the free market" before!
What is this concept you speak of?
Sounds interesting, I would if anyone actually tried it.
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Aren't we still bailing out Morgan Chase from 2008?
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Aren't we still bailing out Morgan Chase from 2008?
Nah, they paid their TARP money back pretty quick. All things considered, Dimon navigated them through that mess pretty smoothly.
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Nah, they paid their TARP money back pretty quick. All things considered, Dimon navigated them through that mess pretty smoothly.
One man's "navigation" is another's "commodities manipulation."
If rigged markets are your thing, Jamie's your guy. See the massive disparity of paper silver ETFs vs physical holdings. Ron Paul would be happy to explain how skillfully Dimon props up the fiat at the expense of real money.
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This is fantastic! Whatever “sell your soul” deal you give to Amazon, JP Morgan wants the same or they are leaving your state.
Imagine Chicago sells their soul to get HQ2. Then JP Morgan, who has their Midwest Chase operations headquartered in Chicago wants to same sell you soul deal. If not, the new Midwest HQ for JP Morgan is Indy!
After them, these Fortune 500 companies with HQs in Chicago will want the same sell your soul deal or, Hello Milwaukee!
Walgreens Boots Alliance.
Archer Daniels Midland.
Boeing.
Caterpillar Inc.
State Farm Insurance.
Abbott Laboratories.
Sears Holdings.
McDonalds
United Continental Holdings.
So congratulations you won Amazon. Your reward is you bankrupted your City!!!
I love it when someone is outsmarted at their own game.
Dimon says he'll fight for tax breaks Amazon gets for HQ2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180227/NEWS01/180229905/dimon-says-hell-fight-for-tax-breaks-amazon-gets-for-hq2#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccb-breakingnews&utm_campaign=ccb-breakingnews-20180227
Jamie Dimon wants the Jeff Bezos deal.
The CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., which employs more than 250,000 workers, said he'll call the governor of whichever state Amazon.com Inc. picks for its second headquarters and try to get the same benefits.
“I'm not kidding,” Dimon said. “You gotta fight for your company, folks, just keep that in mind. If you don't, no one else does."
Governors, mayors and bureaucrats across the U.S. and Canada have rolled out tax breaks and marketing campaigns to try to win Seattle-based Amazon's second corporate seat, a project that's expected to cost more than $5 billion and create 50,000 high-paying jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. Amazon narrowed the list to 20 cities last month and plans to make a decision this year.
Pretty sure no one is giving anything to CAT and their 50 employees in Deerfield
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Millennials are old news. The YZ Cusp (born 1995-2000) is starting to join the work force and Gen Z (born after 2000) is right behind. What Gen Z becomes remains to be seen. Those starting to cater to millennials are behind the curve. Younger millennials will be transitioning from young & single to the family years. It'll be interesting to see how their living habits change over the next 5-10 years. My experience: Older millennials are starting to flock to the suburbs. Whether that is a widespread trend or not, I don't know.
New census numbers are out:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/retirees-reshape-where-americans-live-1521691261 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/retirees-reshape-where-americans-live-1521691261)
Suburbs are drawing more Americans who are being priced out of expensive urban cores, and pulling in millennials and younger members of Generation X who are settling down to start families or have more children.
The suburban population of large metropolitan areas grew 1% last year. Domestic migration into such counties has tripled over the past five years, reaching 265,000 last year, census figures show.
America’s big cities continue to grow, with their population rising 0.7% in 2017. But that growth is now on par with the country on the whole after years of outpacing it, and is primarily because immigrants keep arriving there. In the past five years, large U.S. cities have gone from drawing people from the rest of the country to in 2017 losing 437,000 domestic migrants as residents flow to suburbs or uproot for midsize cities.
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While birthrates among millennial women remain low, there are signs that some who put off having children after the recession are now going forward with it. Among women ages 30 to 34, the birthrate in 2016 rose to its highest level since 1964, according to the most recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention figures released in January. This age group had children at a higher rate than women ages 25 to 29 for the first time since the government began tracking the figures reliably in 1940.
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So IOW, millennials are doing exactly what their predecessors did...but are just doing it later. Hardly surprising.
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My daughter (31) and my son (30) got married in the last 6 months (not to each other; this ain't Kentucky!).
My daughter and her husband loved renting right in the city of Seattle but when it came time to buy a few months ago, they did so in a suburb. They plan to have kids very soon.
My son and his new bride (just married 14 days ago) have been renting on Chicago's North Side and are just starting to consider buying. They hope to stay in the city but aren't sure. They also want to have kids fairly soon.
All four young people (my kids and their spouses) are gainfully employed, all are good people who contribute to society, all very responsible. I get sick of reading about how "entitled" or "spoiled" or whatever that Millennials are. Not saying that's what folks are doing here. Just saying that, in general, I hate generalizations!
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So IOW, millennials are doing exactly what their predecessors did...but are just doing it later. Hardly surprising.
Me on Page 3 of this thread:
Another point .... indications are that once millennials get married and have kids, they, like previous generations, are moving to the suburbs. Definitely later in life, and perhaps not at quite the same frequency, but they're still doing it. The notion that they're all going to be urban dwellers is vastly overstated. Certainly some will choose to remain in the city into their late 40s and raise high schoolers there (remember ... they're not having kids until their 30+), most will be out in the burbs just like their parents.
Sultan on Page 4 of this thread:
Most millennials are delaying everything. Getting married later. Having kids later.
They'll move out to the suburbs later. But if the housing is cheaper, with a nice yard, and the good schools are public schools instead of the charter and private schools in the city, the vast majority will move and commute like previous generations did.
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Me on Page 3 of this thread:
Another point .... indications are that once millennials get married and have kids, they, like previous generations, are moving to the suburbs. Definitely later in life, and perhaps not at quite the same frequency, but they're still doing it. The notion that they're all going to be urban dwellers is vastly overstated. Certainly some will choose to remain in the city into their late 40s and raise high schoolers there (remember ... they're not having kids until their 30+), most will be out in the burbs just like their parents.
Sultan on Page 4 of this thread:
Most millennials are delaying everything. Getting married later. Having kids later.
They'll move out to the suburbs later. But if the housing is cheaper, with a nice yard, and the good schools are public schools instead of the charter and private schools in the city, the vast majority will move and commute like previous generations did.
We are clearly very smart.
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My daughter (31) and my son (30) got married in the last 6 months (not to each other; this ain't Kentucky!).
My daughter and her husband loved renting right in the city of Seattle but when it came time to buy a few months ago, they did so in a suburb. They plan to have kids very soon.
My son and his new bride (just married 14 days ago) have been renting on Chicago's North Side and are just starting to consider buying. They hope to stay in the city but aren't sure. They also want to have kids fairly soon.
All four young people (my kids and their spouses) are gainfully employed, all are good people who contribute to society, all very responsible. I get sick of reading about how "entitled" or "spoiled" or whatever that Millennials are. Not saying that's what folks are doing here. Just saying that, in general, I hate generalizations!
'hole lotta shakin' goin' on wit Nads kin, hey?
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My daughter (31) and my son (30) got married in the last 6 months (not to each other; this ain't Kentucky!).
My daughter and her husband loved renting right in the city of Seattle but when it came time to buy a few months ago, they did so in a suburb. They plan to have kids very soon.
My son and his new bride (just married 14 days ago) have been renting on Chicago's North Side and are just starting to consider buying. They hope to stay in the city but aren't sure. They also want to have kids fairly soon.
All four young people (my kids and their spouses) are gainfully employed, all are good people who contribute to society, all very responsible. I get sick of reading about how "entitled" or "spoiled" or whatever that Millennials are. Not saying that's what folks are doing here. Just saying that, in general, I hate generalizations!
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Oh Benny ... you're not going to make me point out that I meant to say it that way, are you?
The quote I usually like to use is:
Generalization is bad, and everybody who does it is stupid.
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That's awesome Benny. LMAO.
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Some details on a few of the New York bids:
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2018/03/27/amazon-headquarters-rochester-ny-failed-bid-exclusive-details/462053002/
Indy's IBJ estimates the Indy bid could include up to 1.5 Billion in incentives.
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Since the "Y'all got Bezo'd" thread got locked.
I saw this in today's New Haven Register.
Dan Haar: How lucky for CT — Nooyi named to Amazon board
https://www.nhregister.com/business/danhaar/article/Dan-Haar-How-lucky-for-CT-Nooyi-named-to-13644199.php