It only gets worse for Bucky

[Dr. Blackheart]

I don't know exactly what you mean by "overrated," but my (anecdotal) thoughts are that Wisconsin has produced more high level D1 talent than it did a generation ago.  Those players have largely went to UW and MU, which has helped the development of both programs.

Does that mean Wisconsin is a hotbed of basketball talent?  No.  But if you look at the rosters of UW and MU when they have been most successful recently, there are a number of players who were recruited by out of state "powers" and chose to stay here (or transfer back.)

Sorry for the late delay.  My comments are not back in time.  You and other posters have a far superior history on WI HS hoops.

My comments are directed to the poster's theory that the improving WI AAU scene has helped both programs recently.  And, whether those AAU 5 WI Stars (typically one or two and dones) are indicative of an improving AAU scene?

To me from a FIB POV, the answer is no and no.

As to my thoughts, both Al, TC and Bo had their best years when they recruited the Chicago Burbs or Catholic Leaugue, with a sprinkle of WI and other recruiting states where they had connections.  Why Buzz and Wojo have chosen not to play in the Chicago Burbs strongly is a miss, IMHO. To the best of my memory, Bo, Teve and Morrow were the only CPS recruits in decades (I am sure there are more but IDR).

WI 5 Stars? Meh

[Herman Cain]

Sorry for the late delay.  My comments are not back in time.  You and other posters have a far superior history on WI HS hoops.

My comments are directed to the poster's theory that the improving WI AAU scene has helped both programs recently.  And, whether those AAU 5 WI Stars (typically one or two and dones) are indicative of an improving AAU scene?

To me from a FIB POV, the answer is no and no.

As to my thoughts, both Al, TC and Bo had their best years when they recruited the Chicago Burbs or Catholic Leaugue, with a sprinkle of WI and other recruiting states where they had connections.  Why Buzz and Wojo have chosen not to play in the Chicago Burbs strongly is a miss, IMHO. To the best of my memory, Bo, Teve and Morrow were the only CPS recruits in decades (I am sure there are more but IDR).

WI 5 Stars? Meh

I think it is worth reviewing what recruiting was prior to AAU. In the old days, the best players  all over the county were in the Big City public and Catholic leagues . Every once in a while there would be a some big tall kids from a small town school somewhere  ( so in Wisconsin for example there were guys like the Wolfs) or there would be some smaller town or suburban multi sport pure athlete that had showed up with the requisite basketball talent ( guys like Jeff Sewell, aka the Grafton Gun or Jim The Cloud Piercer Dudley) .  Everything in the old days was about high school basketball. The rest of the year there was nothing but playground ball . In Michigan  in addition to playground ball there was an inside component in the gym above the old Jenison Field House.  Good high school players would show up in the 60s and 70s and compete against college and pros . Most of those kids were from the industrial urban centers in the state. A fair amount of recruiting was done by word of mouth by guys who would observe at playgrounds and literally phone in prospects to coaches. The budgets were smaller and coaches literally took players by word of mouth sometimes. Michigan State took a kid named Tanya Webb who was 6-8 245 ( back when that was big) sight  unseen just based on a phone call and some press clippings that he could long jump over 20 feet and palm two balls. He turned out to be a dud in basketball but eventually they put him on the football team as an offensive tackle. So recruiting was risky, as many times an entire recruiting class would be lousy. Or a kid who was billed as 6-5 would show up as 6-2 in real life.

Now the advent of AAU has given the white kids from suburbia and the rural areas an ability to play year round against good competition, with structure, which has made them much better. So AAU ball has created an environment in Wisconsin where every year where there are multiple D 1 players developed with real skills to compete . The same dynamic has materialized all over the country.  I do not believe Wisconsin has improved on a relative basis. There are still more players elsewhere.  I do think it  has improved on an absolute basis in that there are more recruit able high major athletes every season in the state of Wisconsin now because of AAU.

I think there are enough good players in the state, so that if either one of MU or Wisconsin could dominate the in state recruiting it would do well. I think that is where Wojo made a very smart move by trying to establish us as the go to school for instate kids. As the amount of quality  Wisconsin players is limited and inevitably there  are kids that go out of state as well .  In other states there are more quality kids available . For example if you go over to Michigan, we had a great recruiting year there last year and picked up 3 of the best players in the state. Michigan got 1 ( and got a kid from Milwaukee) and MSU got 1. MSU has 4 there this year and Michigan 2.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I still think AAU is one of the worst things to happen to high school basketball.

[GGGG]

I think it is worth reviewing what recruiting was prior to AAU. In the old days, the best players  all over the county were in the Big City public and Catholic leagues . Every once in a while there would be a some big tall kids from a small town school somewhere  ( so in Wisconsin for example there were guys like the Wolfs) or there would be some smaller town or suburban multi sport pure athlete that had showed up with the requisite basketball talent ( guys like Jeff Sewell, aka the Grafton Gun or Jim The Cloud Piercer Dudley) .  Everything in the old days was about high school basketball. The rest of the year there was nothing but playground ball . In Michigan  in addition to playground ball there was an inside component in the gym above the old Jenison Field House.  Good high school players would show up in the 60s and 70s and compete against college and pros . Most of those kids were from the industrial urban centers in the state. A fair amount of recruiting was done by word of mouth by guys who would observe at playgrounds and literally phone in prospects to coaches. The budgets were smaller and coaches literally took players by word of mouth sometimes. Michigan State took a kid named Tanya Webb who was 6-8 245 ( back when that was big) sight  unseen just based on a phone call and some press clippings that he could long jump over 20 feet and palm two balls. He turned out to be a dud in basketball but eventually they put him on the football team as an offensive tackle. So recruiting was risky, as many times an entire recruiting class would be lousy. Or a kid who was billed as 6-5 would show up as 6-2 in real life.

Now the advent of AAU has given the white kids from suburbia and the rural areas an ability to play year round against good competition, with structure, which has made them much better. So AAU ball has created an environment in Wisconsin where every year where there are multiple D 1 players developed with real skills to compete . The same dynamic has materialized all over the country.  I do not believe Wisconsin has improved on a relative basis. There are still more players elsewhere.  I do think it  has improved on an absolute basis in that there are more recruit able high major athletes every season in the state of Wisconsin now because of AAU.

I think there are enough good players in the state, so that if either one of MU or Wisconsin could dominate the in state recruiting it would do well. I think that is where Wojo made a very smart move by trying to establish us as the go to school for instate kids. As the amount of quality  Wisconsin players is limited and inevitably there  are kids that go out of state as well .  In other states there are more quality kids available . For example if you go over to Michigan, we had a great recruiting year there last year and picked up 3 of the best players in the state. Michigan got 1 ( and got a kid from Milwaukee) and MSU got 1. MSU has 4 there this year and Michigan 2.

This is a very good take.

[GGGG]

I still think AAU is one of the worst things to happen to high school basketball.

Probably. But it's pribably helped develop better basketball players overall. I think a lot of the hand-wringing about how the US develops basketball players is inaccurate.

[We R Final Four]

I think 'showcase' would be more accurate than'develop'.

[brewcity77]

The AAU vs High School debate is interesting. AAU definitely has some showcase aspects, but it does allow many more players to get exposure that normally wouldn't. Further, I'm not sure the high school model was ever the best for developing players. While AAU may lack structure, it does allow players to seek out the best coaches to fit their style of play rather than simply learning what the coach in their district likes to do.

Does high school suffer from AAU? Of course, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Our national adherence that ties sports to schools has certainly helped some sports (most notably women's athletics) but others have suffered because of it (our men's soccer development system is a clusterf*ck at best). I think a hybrid of AAU and high school that has the freedom and showcase ability of AAU along with the skill development and team dynamics of high school would probably be the ideal, but I think we're a long way from that and it would take a concerted effort on a lot of fronts, at the very least a heavier injection of money from shoe companies that are really only interested in reaping profits from the upper echelon players rather than actual development across the board.

All that said, this probably isn't the best place to carry this conversation on. Screw Bucky!

[GooooMarquette]

I propose that Badger Hate Week officially extend to the entire season.  All in favor?

[MarquetteDano]

I propose that Badger Hate Week officially extend to the entire season.  All in favor?

Badger Hate Season?


I like it.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Badger Hate Season?


I like it.

I hearby declare the Year of Our Lord 2018 to be Badger Hate Year.

[onepost]

An actual quote from Buckyville DURING their ass beating to Purdue the other night:

"speculation time...what's Bo's record this year...same circumstances, I think they win 2/3 against ucla, Baylor and xav, I think the beat rut and neb and marquett, as ugly as that was---I think at least 5 more w's"

How fucking delusional can you be to claim all those as wins WHILE getting embarrassed?  God they are the absolute worst.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

An actual quote from Buckyville DURING their ass beating to Purdue the other night:

"speculation time...what's Bo's record this year...same circumstances, I think they win 2/3 against ucla, Baylor and xav, I think the beat rut and neb and marquett, as ugly as that was---I think at least 5 more w's"

How unnatural carnal knowledgeing delusional can you be to claim all those as wins WHILE getting embarrassed?  God they are the absolute worst.

LOL.  Yeah, Bo turns Schlundt ad Moesch, some dude I literally had never heard of who had scored a grand total of 11 points in his first 3 years, into high major players and outcoaches Gard's results by 20 points to get the win.  Gosh, if only they didn't have such exhausting academic standards they'd go undefeated every year!

[cheese ball chaser]

Will the Badgers make the NIT this year?

[BrewCity83]

Will the Badgers make the NIT this year?

LOL!! Not with an RPI over 125...

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/rpi/

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Will the Badgers make the NIT this year?

Probably need to finish at least 8-4 to sniff the NIT.

It'll be interesting to see what Happ does next year.

Door #1) Return to Wisconsin which looks like a bubble team at best.

Door #2) Grad Transfer to a better team (if he completes enough credits; I don't know what his transcripts look like)

Door #3) Turn pro. Happ doesn't have a jump shot nor is he an athletic defender & rebounder.  But that probably doesn't change a year from now.  He may never be an NBA player but he could have a heck of an international career. Collecting an extra year of pay is worth considering.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Door #3) Turn pro. Happ doesn't have a jump shot nor is he an athletic defender & rebounder.  But that probably doesn't change a year from now.  He may never be an NBA player but he could have a heck of an international career. Collecting an extra year of pay is worth considering.

He was listed at #65 on the list of 100 posted earlier, maybe he will turn pro in Lithuania. 

[forgetful]

Probably need to finish at least 8-4 to sniff the NIT.

It'll be interesting to see what Happ does next year.

Door #1) Return to Wisconsin which looks like a bubble team at best.

Door #2) Grad Transfer to a better team (if he completes enough credits; I don't know what his transcripts look like)

Door #3) Turn pro. Happ doesn't have a jump shot nor is he an athletic defender & rebounder.  But that probably doesn't change a year from now.  He may never be an NBA player but he could have a heck of an international career. Collecting an extra year of pay is worth considering.

He's majoring in Life Science Communication.

I've heard that's an extremely challenging major that only students at the Harvard of the Midwest are capable of completing.  It's probably really hard to get enough credits to graduate in 4 years. 

[Boozemon Barro]

Life Science Communications... is that what you study to become a dog therapist?

[Litehouse]

Life Science Communications... is that what you study to become a dog therapist?

It's the re-branded version of Agricultural Journalism, which has been UW's long-time major for athletes.

[Its DJOver]

He's majoring in Life Science Communication.

I've heard that's an extremely challenging major that only students at the Harvard of the Midwest are capable of completing.  It's probably really hard to get enough credits to graduate in 4 years. 

At least he declared a major, when Dekker went pro he was still "undecided", but that's just because there are so many majors to choose from at the Harvard of the Midwest.

[BrewCity83]

A grad transfer can only transfer to a school that offers a course of study that's not available at a player's current school, right?  If that's the case, how the hell is Happ gonna find a school that has a program that's easy enough for him to complete but also not already offered by UW-Harvard? 

[Nukem2]

A grad transfer can only transfer to a school that offers a course of study that's not available at a player's current school, right?  If that's the case, how the hell is Happ gonna find a school that has a program that's easy enough for him to complete but also not already offered by UW-Harvard?

Its easy to create a very specific grad program....

[ZiggysFryBoy]

A grad transfer can only transfer to a school that offers a course of study that's not available at a player's current school, right?  If that's the case, how the hell is Happ gonna find a school that has a program that's easy enough for him to complete but also not already offered by UW-Harvard?

Masters in Non-Life Science Communication.
Thesis:  Discussions with Bo Ryan

[Eye]

Probably need to finish at least 8-4 to sniff the NIT.

6-5 to even have a mathematical shot after Illinois win last night. Pencil in four losses to Purdue, Michigan State twice and at Maryland. Even if would pull one upset in that group of four, would have to go 5-2 in the rest of them, and that includes 3 road games and home games with Michigan, Nebraska and Minnesota. Penciled in a home win at against Northwestern, which is probably a touch generous. 3-3 much more likely than 4-2 in that group of 6. Some shot, but I'd say about a 1 in 5 shot at best.

[Jay Bee]

A grad transfer can only transfer to a school that offers a course of study that's not available at a player's current school, right?  If that's the case, how the hell is Happ gonna find a school that has a program that's easy enough for him to complete but also not already offered by UW-Harvard?

No. That rule was changed many many years ago.