If we lose out, would it change your perception of Wojo?

[Big Noggin AL]

   Trolls are so predictable and boring.

Well that was uncalled for...

[muguru]

And yet you seem to hold Wojo responsible for it.    You admit the program bottomed out.    You seem to recognize that the BOT was looking for the anti-Buzz.   They got it.   The BOT felt that some of the off-court stuff (which, IMO, happens all over major college sports) was giving MU a bad name and unwanted publicity.   They are giving Wojo a long leash.   With the BOT's blessing, he is eschewing the quick fix and attempting to build a program with high character players.     I have my doubts, just like you.    But, as I have said before, I can see the roadmap and the building blocks.

That's just it, they are now more concerned about their image than how good the basketball team is. Would they like it to be good?? Probably, but if they aren't, and the kids stay out of trouble and graduate on time, I think they are probably okay with that, and that's what concerns me. It's all about the image. The very same basketball program they thought was giving them a bad name was also the very same basketball program that made enrollments/applications higher than they had ever been, the crowds were some of the best ever, season tickets were higher than they are now. They can't have it both ways.

[mu_hilltopper]

Miss NCAAs this year + miss next year = new coach.

If not, they'll lose so many ticket holders in 2019, they'll need to have bake sales to pay rent for the new arena.

[GGGG]

Eh, coaches are paid to win. If he's not doing that enough, they should drop him. A guy not living up to expectations doesn't need to be held onto any longer just because they think he's a swell guy.

You failed to understand my argument.  If he is "safe" now, but three games changes it to "fired," that is a leadership issue.

[GGGG]

That's just it, they are now more concerned about their image than how good the basketball team is. Would they like it to be good?? Probably, but if they aren't, and the kids stay out of trouble and graduate on time, I think they are probably okay with that, and that's what concerns me. It's all about the image. The very same basketball program they thought was giving them a bad name was also the very same basketball program that made enrollments/applications higher than they had ever been, the crowds were some of the best ever, season tickets were higher than they are now. They can't have it both ways.

So you don't think you can't put winning basketball teams on the floor and graduate players?  Of course they can.

This team is a borderline NCAA team after missing out on the post season last year and finishing with a losing record the year before. 

I understand that this progress may not be fast enough for you, but really people need to stop denying its progress.

[tower912]

They can't have it both ways.

They think they can.   Split this week, win one in NYC, make the tourney, and they have what they wanted. 

[muguru]

They think they can.   Split this week, win one in NYC, make the tourney, and they have what they wanted.

Understood..but, They won't see it as barely getting in likely only because the bubble is worse then it ever has been. How about having years where when even before the season starts you know they are in(barring something disastrous), and are just playing the year for seeding. Shouldn't that be the minimum standard at MU?? I mean barely getting in the tourney shouldn't be the standard, and certainly just making it shouldn't be enough...sadly i think for this administration I think just making the NCAA's most years will be enough, and if they advance that's just a bonus to them. That shouldn't be good enough for Wojo or the administration.

[GGGG]

Understood..but, They won't see it as barely getting in likely only because the bubble is worse then it ever has been. How about having years where when even before the season starts you know they are in(barring something disastrous), and are just playing the year for seeding. Shouldn't that be the minimum standard at MU?? I mean barely getting in the tourney shouldn't be the standard, and certainly just making it shouldn't be enough...sadly i think for this administration I think just making the NCAA's most years will be enough, and if they advance that's just a bonus to them. That shouldn't be good enough for Wojo or the administration.

Who said that just barely getting in the tournament should be the standard?

[muguru]

So you don't think you can't put winning basketball teams on the floor and graduate players?  Of course they can.

This team is a borderline NCAA team after missing out on the post season last year and finishing with a losing record the year before. 

I understand that this progress may not be fast enough for you, but really people need to stop denying its progress.

You can have a winning program, but should a "winning" program really be the standard at MU?? Is that what it's come to?? Are just getting in the NCAA's going to be good enough every year?? If they advance, they advance, if they don't they don't?? That's too freaking small time, and that mentality is BS.

The question has been asked many times before "what would have been the answer to a quick "rebuild". I can tell you the answer...Look what Butler did...they lost 60% of their scoring last year, how did they "rebuild"?? They didn't...they reloaded.

Tyler Lewis-Transfer
Kethan Savage-Transfer
Avery Woodosn-Transfer

This was a team that was projected nowhere near making the NCAA's after last year when they lost what they did to graduation. Did they rebuild?? Nope...they "reloaded" and haven't missed a beat..in fact, they have outperformed expectations by a wide margin this year even. Most people here would have a conniption if MU did that because "it would make the classes unbalanced". I say, who cares, if you keep winning and keep making the tourney. That's a quick fix and then some...so it can be done.

[bilsu]

What would change my mind about Wojo would be either Howard or Hauser transfering. I am expecting one transfer and I can live with that. However, losing either of the above would be it for me.

[Lennys Tap]

But the team has gotten better each year. This is undeniable. Wojo has us trending up. You may not like the pace and I sure wish it was faster, but if you care about winning why would you fire a coach who is improving every year and start all over?

I don't think we lose out and even if we do Wojo is safe.

However, IF we lose out, finish 17-13, 8-10 (vs 20-13, 8-10) with 2 of our conference wins coming against depleted Creighton and Xavier - I don'r see how you can posit that it's "undeniable" we got better this year.

[MU82]

Not going to answer a question based on a worst-case-scenario, negatively conceived, hypothetical situation.

I see no value in doing so.

And besides, we're going to win one and very possibly both.

Having said that, I realize this kind of silliness is what a fan site is for, so continue to have at it, folks.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't think we lose out and even if we do Wojo is safe.

However, IF we lose out, finish 17-13, 8-10 (vs 20-13, 8-10) with 2 of our conference wins coming against depleted Creighton and Xavier - I don'r see how you can posit that it's "undeniable" we got better this year.

1. Because two games left in the regular season and we are considered in the tournament. Last year we weren't in the same zip code as a bubble team.
2. KenPom (which is the most accurate ranking system IMHO) is over 60 spots better this year.
3. The good old eye test.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Because Coaches have done more quicker with less for one thing.

Who? I'm honestly curious. I'm not saying that there hasn't been, but I'd be willing to bet that for every one you name, I could name at least two who took longer but were still successful in the long run.

And for another, the biggest problem(at least for me) is not so much the fact that it's taking this long to be good again, it's that the program bottomed out in the 1st place. Should have NEVER come to that. I will never ever forgive Larry and Pilarz for the damage they did to this program.

And how is Wojo responsible for what happened before he got here? I too blame the Williams vs. Williams feud for the bottoming out of the program. But I blame both Williams, not just one of them. Larry might have been heavy handed, but not unreasonable. A good employee makes his concerns known than follows direction once the decision is made. Buzz didn't.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's just it, they are now more concerned about their image than how good the basketball team is. Would they like it to be good?? Probably, but if they aren't, and the kids stay out of trouble and graduate on time, I think they are probably okay with that, and that's what concerns me. It's all about the image. The very same basketball program they thought was giving them a bad name was also the very same basketball program that made enrollments/applications higher than they had ever been, the crowds were some of the best ever, season tickets were higher than they are now. They can't have it both ways.

The basketball team winning is part of the university's image. That was equally important. Wojo was hired because he was the coach they thought was most likely to build a winning program while also passing the sniff test (which wasn't as rigorous as some seem to think it was). I'm not convinced they were wrong yet. Look at his competition. Smart was our first choice but he has tanked so far at Texas. Cuonzo is just as bubbly as we are in year three despite having a MUCH better starting point at Cal. Howland did not pass the sniff test and he is struggling at Mississippi State. Would one of them done better if they had ended up at MU? Who knows?

I have yet to be convinced that Wojo was the right choice. But I'm far from being convinced that we was the wrong choice.

[Herman Cain]

The basketball team winning is part of the university's image. That was equally important. Wojo was hired because he was the coach they thought was most likely to build a winning program while also passing the sniff test (which wasn't as rigorous as some seem to think it was). I'm not convinced they were wrong yet. Look at his competition. Smart was our first choice but he has tanked so far at Texas. Cuonzo is just as bubbly as we are in year three despite having a MUCH better starting point at Cal. Howland did not pass the sniff test and he is struggling at Mississippi State. Would one of them done better if they had ended up at MU? Who knows?

I have yet to be convinced that Wojo was the right choice. But I'm far from being convinced that we was the wrong choice.

Buzz has done well.

[Lennys Tap]

1. Because two games left in the regular season and we are considered in the tournament. Last year we weren't in the same zip code as a bubble team.
2. KenPom (which is the most accurate ranking system IMHO) is over 60 spots better this year.
3. The good old eye test.

#3 is silly.

#1 = Sorry, but in the end only your final record matters

#2 I see some validity here but not enough to call any improvement "undeniable"

Of course if we beat Xavier, Creighton or both it's all moot.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

#3 is silly.

#1 = Sorry, but in the end only your final record matters

#2 I see some validity here but not enough to call any improvement "undeniable"

Of course if we beat Xavier, Creighton or both it's all moot.

You can call it silly if you want, its certainly the least scientific of the three but I feel confident saying that this year's MU team would be last year's MU team 8 out of 10 times.

Final record? Even if we lose out, we will still be in the bubble conversation. Again, last year's team was nowhere near the conversation. To me, that is the most clear sign of improving.

If we were like 10-20 spots higher in KP, I might agree. But 60+ is pretty undeniable improvement.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz has done well.

Was Buzz a candidate to replace himself?

[Lennys Tap]

You can call it silly if you want, its certainly the least scientific of the three but I feel confident saying that this year's MU team would be last year's MU team 8 out of 10 times.

Really? There's one team in our conference I think we would maybe beat 8 of 10 times - DePaul.

9th place Georgetown? No way.

I agree we were pretty bad last year, but not that bad.

[79Warrior]

Consideration is being given to another contract extension as we speak. Everyone on the BOT thinks Lovell walks on water . As long as Lovell  is in the power position he is going to keep his boy in the job. Scholl will carry any water he is told to carry.

Interesting. I have heard that is not the case at all.

[#UnleashSean]

I think the problem may be is how concerned is the administration with on court results?? I'm not sure winning at a high level is all that important to them or the BOT. At least not like it used to be at MU.

If their not concerned with winnjng why are they spending millions

[1SE]

We could have "nice guys" and mediocrity for a lot less money. There's been some progress this year, but about as incremental as it could be. Don't kid yourselves, MUBB is a business and a brand, and right now it's barely performing.

[1SE]

That said, still time to end the season on a strong note. Here's to hoping.

[bilsu]

Before the season started many here were claiming that the Big East was much stronger this year. Are we not better, if we finish 8-10 again in a stronger conference? Certianly, perceived conference strength took a hit when Creighton & Xavier lost their point guards, but nobody here thought Butler and Providence would be as good as they are.