Racist Logos - Indians vs. Fighting Irish

[wadesworld]

Imagine how offended the Midshipmen of the Naval Academy must feel.  This whole time, wades thought they were actual goats!

...that's the exact point I'm making.  Anyone who gets upset about a sports team logo because it doesn't depict the actual being that it is named for...well, go ahead and be upset I guess.

Thanks for proving the point.

[Benny B]

One more time.

We aren't discussing the nicknames.  We are discussing the logos. 

"Fighting Irish" is a nickname.  The logo is a leprechaun.  It isn't a human being with Irish stereotypes.  It is a mythical creature.

Question: Then why does the leprechaun need to have his fists up if he's not supposed to be representative of Irish stereotypes?

[GGGG]

...that's the exact point I'm making.  Anyone who gets upset about a sports team logo because it doesn't depict the actual being that it is named for...well, go ahead and be upset I guess.

Thanks for proving the point.

OK so your response is basically, "people are too sensitive."

A better response:  It's just a sports logo so why do something that offends people?  There are literally thousands of logos that don't offend.  Why not do something similar?

[Pakuni]

Question: Then why does the leprechaun need to have his fists up if he's not supposed to be representative of Irish stereotypes?

Cause people are always trying to steal his pot of gold. Can't a make believe character defend himself and his property?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Cause people are always trying to steal his pot of gold. Can't a make believe character defend himself and his property?

[Benny B]

Cause people are always trying to steal his pot of gold. Can't a make believe character defend himself and his property?

Oh... methinks he's not as make believe as you think.

Who all seen the leprechaun say yay.

[#UnleashSean]

71 years ago people my age were shitting their pants as they jumped out of planes in the middle of flak attacks with rudimentary parachutes.

Now we sit online and whine about which logos are and are not racist.

[rocket surgeon]

this is fun...watching/reading the twisting and turning to get the trapezoidal peg into the round hole.  keep going...rationalization works every time-can hardly ever go wrong

[naginiF]

OK so your response is basically, "people are too sensitive."

A better response:  It's just a sports logo so why do something that offends people?  There are literally thousands of logos that don't offend.  Why not do something similar?

Without doing an iota of research aren't the Atlanta Braves a great example of this?  Totally separated the name from the imagery.

1 years ago people my age were crapting their pants as they jumped out of planes in the middle of flak attacks with rudimentary parachutes.

Now we sit online and whine about which logos are and are not racist.

Congratulations on being the only generation that thinks they're better/tougher/harder working than those that came after them. 

[cheebs09]

Without doing an iota of research aren't the Atlanta Braves a great example of this?  Totally separated the name from the imagery.

Don't they still do the tomahawk chop at games or did they get rid of it? I think they still have a hat with a hatchet on it.

[rocket surgeon]

Don't they still do the tomahawk chop at games or did they get rid of it? I think they still have a hat with a hatchet on it.

and florida state?  what is that chant?  heyooo ehyoo-ohhhh heyoo yooooo... all together now...is that something they taught us at thanksgiving?  jane fonda and teddy t. were so cute when they did this together though...sigh

God it's great to have chicos back Enna so? 

[naginiF]

Don't they still do the tomahawk chop at games or did they get rid of it? I think they still have a hat with a hatchet on it.

I did a quick cruise through their online shop and only saw the 'a' and 'Braves' with the tomahawk so 'yes' they still use the hatchet/tomahawk but if i'm seeing it correctly they only have the inanimate object and ditched using a human image. 

Seems very similar to (and i can't believe i ignored my own backyard) the KC Chiefs using the arrowhead imagery and no longer using the Native American mascot.  Both fan bases use the tomahawk chop during games but i don't think either is an official team sponsored activity.

[brandx]

The inaccurate and unflattering portrayals of leprechauns must stop immediately!!!

And Indians need to quit smiling so much!

[#UnleashSean]

Without doing an iota of research aren't the Atlanta Braves a great example of this?  Totally separated the name from the imagery.

Congratulations on being the only generation that thinks they're better/tougher/harder working than those that came after them.

I'm 23

[Lennys Tap]

Congratulations on being the only generation that thinks they're better/tougher/harder working than those that came after them.

Congratulations on interpreting Wally's post bass akwards.

[real chili 83]

ND sucks.

In before the lock.

[Benny B]

Congratulations on interpreting Wally's post bass akwards.

In fin's defense, 8 year olds today are total slackers.

[naginiF]

In fin's defense, 8 year olds today are total slackers.

Thank you!  i have an 8 year old and a 10 year old....the elder is soo much tougher!

Sorry Unleash, i totally missed that one.  The good news for me is that i'm 50 and now have the upper hand on you as to how tough my upbringing was.

[Coleman]

I find it amazing that there are still people in 2016 who think Chief Wahoo is not offensive.

I think there are respectful ways to depict Native Americans in sports imagery, having consent from them is probably step one (See Florida Seminoles).

[Benny B]

I find it amazing that there are still people in 2016 who think Chief Wahoo is not offensive.

I think there are respectful ways to depict Native Americans in sports imagery, having consent from them is probably step one (See Florida Seminoles).

I think non-offensive imagery would be step one.  Consent would be step two.

[Babybluejeansfan]

People need to relax. 

[Lennys Tap]

People need to relax.

1. Is this really the official mascot?

2. What does this have to do with racism?

[wadesworld]

I find it amazing that there are still people in 2016 who think Chief Wahoo is not offensive.

I think there are respectful ways to depict Native Americans in sports imagery, having consent from them is probably step one (See Florida Seminoles).

Again, I think most people here are confusing racism with stereotyping. Might the logo be offensive? Sure, people can make that argument. Does that automatically make it racist? No.

Racism is defined as "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others." What about the logo determines achievement, let alone "achievement involving one's own race [as] superior and has a right to dominate others" or that a group is inferior to another?

Offensive? Sure. Have at it. Racist? Not unless we're rewriting the definition of racism.

[rocket surgeon]

1. Is this really the official mascot?

2. What does this have to do with racism?

nothing to do with racism, but a millennial would be offended and running for his/her safe space screaming for counselors and filing lawsuits

[rocket surgeon]

Again, I think most people here are confusing racism with stereotyping. Might the logo be offensive? Sure, people can make that argument. Does that automatically make it racist? No.

Racism is defined as "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others." What about the logo determines achievement, let alone "achievement involving one's own race [as] superior and has a right to dominate others" or that a group is inferior to another?

Offensive? Sure. Have at it. Racist? Not unless we're rewriting the definition of racism.

well done! 
        actually we are using the logo to assert superiority, in this case athletic prowess, over another.  the logo isn't used as a symbol of repression in sports.  i don't think any less of a "fighting irish" or an indian when i see these logos.  i see something i want on my side to beat the shnit out of your banana slugs or orange or red or whatever other sissy logo mascot you have

that's how we were brought up. rather than find offense in everything, we find strength