Racist Logos - Indians vs. Fighting Irish

[jesmu84]

nothing to do with racism, but a millennial would be offended and running for his/her safe space screaming for counselors and filing lawsuits

Interesting. I hadn't realized any/all offended native Americans were millennials.

You denounce others for over generalizations and here you are doing the same

[Coleman]

Again, I think most people here are confusing racism with stereotyping. Might the logo be offensive? Sure, people can make that argument. Does that automatically make it racist? No.

Racism is defined as "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others." What about the logo determines achievement, let alone "achievement involving one's own race [as] superior and has a right to dominate others" or that a group is inferior to another?

Offensive? Sure. Have at it. Racist? Not unless we're rewriting the definition of racism.

Ok, even if its "offensive but not racist," that is reason enough to get rid of it.

[Coleman]

I think non-offensive imagery would be step one.  Consent would be step two.

Well, I suppose. But I would think getting consent for such a logo would be the first step, and then designing the imagery in collaboration with the Tribe(s) would make the most sense.  Better to include them every step of the way, not just final approval, IMO.

[MUfan12]

[Babybluejeansfan]

1. Is this really the official mascot?

2. What does this have to do with racism?

To answer your second question, this entire thread, what does it have to do with racism?   Native Americans at more than a 70% response said this isn't an issue.   You all need to relax.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

[muwarrior69]

Ok, even if its "offensive but not racist," that is reason enough to get rid of it.

Is this offensive?

[GGGG]

well done! 
        actually we are using the logo to assert superiority, in this case athletic prowess, over another.  the logo isn't used as a symbol of repression in sports.  i don't think any less of a "fighting irish" or an indian when i see these logos.  i see something i want on my side to beat the shnit out of your banana slugs or orange or red or whatever other sissy logo mascot you have

that's how we were brought up. rather than find offense in everything, we find strength

God that is such bullsh*t.  It was always offensive to certain parts of society.  We just didn't care enough to listen.

Chief Wahoo is from a former age where our society didn't pay much attention to the racism based stereotyping of Native Americans.  Willie Wampum, Chief Noc a Homa, etc. are examples of imagery that was retired because of that.  Chief Wahoo somehow remains.

It's real simple.  Just be respectful.  Cleveland has a perfect acceptable logo.  Use it.  Retire this one. 

[Coleman]

To answer your second question, this entire thread, what does it have to do with racism?   Native Americans at more than a 70% response said this isn't an issue.   You all need to relax.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

Welcome back Chicos

[Coleman]

Is this offensive?

What you or I think honestly does not matter.

[wadesworld]

Ok, even if its "offensive but not racist," that is reason enough to get rid of it.

Sure, that's fine.  If we want to start a different discussion on that we can do that, and I'll probably step out as I have no strong opinion on it either way.  But the discussion began when the logo was called "the most racist logo in sports."  The logo is not racist unless we are changing the definition of racism, which I suppose in theory could put it into a tie for "the most racist logo in sports" if no other logos out there are racist (which is certainly possible).

[Benny B]

Ok, even if its "offensive but not racist," that is reason enough to get rid of it.

So how many people does something have to offend before we can get rid of it?  Because I'm pretty sure we can band together enough people to say the entire University of Notre Dame - not just their logo/imagery - is offensive.  We could probably take down UW as well and make it a 2-for-1 ridding.

[Babybluejeans]

Welcome back Chicos

It's weird. You'd think the dude would try to conceal his identity by not immediately throwing up a dozen posts about race and TV ratings (and in the process sling mud at anyone else's viewpoint contrary to his). But we are what we are. I feel bad for the guy, actually.

[#UnleashSean]

So how many people does something have to offend before we can get rid of it?  Because I'm pretty sure we can band together enough people to say the entire University of Notre Dame - not just their logo/imagery - is offensive.  We could probably take down UW as well and make it a 2-for-1 ridding.

I for one am absolutely offended by Canada. Let's get rid of them.

[brandx]

It's weird. You'd think the dude would try to conceal his identity by not immediately throwing up a dozen posts about race and TV ratings (and in the process sling mud at anyone else's viewpoint contrary to his). But we are what we are. I feel bad for the guy, actually.

Why feel bad? He got what he deserved.

[muwarrior69]

What you or I think honestly does not matter.

Your right so Chief Wahoo can stay as it does not matter.

[naginiF]

I for one am absolutely offended by Canada. Let's get rid of them.

Don't get me started.....first off, what they do to get the maple syrup out is barbaric, invasive and clearly non consensual.  Second, why do you think they call them "The Mounties"?  WAKE UP PEOPLE Canada is basically one big rape culture.

[rocket surgeon]

Interesting. I hadn't realized any/all offended native Americans were millennials.

You denounce others for over generalizations and here you are doing the same

i didn't say ALL millennials.  i said A millennial as in, for exampl.  yes, there are some people who are offended by this stuff.  what a surprise.  i'd love to ask these same people what their level of offense is toward the term martian as well. i wish some team would name themselves the fighting swiss rocket men...now you're talkin
      btw, my dads dad(my gramps) was from switzerland

[jesmu84]

i didn't say ALL millennials.  i said A millennial as in, for exampl.  yes, there are some people who are offended by this stuff.  what a surprise.  i'd love to ask these same people what their level of offense is toward the term martian as well. i wish some team would name themselves the fighting swiss rocket men...now you're talkin
      btw, my dads dad(my gramps) was from switzerland

Why did you use "millenial" at all in your original post? Clearly, you chose that word for a reason.

I get so fed up with other generations denouncing millenials. It's so unnatural carnal knowledgeing ridiculous.

[rocket surgeon]

   

God that is such bullsh*t.  It was always offensive to certain parts of society.  We just didn't care enough to listen.

Chief Wahoo is from a former age where our society didn't pay much attention to the racism based stereotyping of Native Americans.  Willie Wampum, Chief Noc a Homa, etc. are examples of imagery that was retired because of that.  Chief Wahoo somehow remains.

It's real simple.  Just be respectful.  Cleveland has a perfect acceptable logo.  Use it.  Retire this one. 

and there you have it...cuz i said so, 'ey?

" It was always offensive to certain parts of society"

so when and where does it end?   when sully says so, that's when.  i submit that you are being a bully and i am offended and i feel disrespected because you disagree and called my post "bull plop

 

[GGGG]

and there you have it...cuz i said so, 'ey?

" It was always offensive to certain parts of society"

so when and where does it end?   when sully says so, that's when.  i submit that you are being a bully and i am offended and i feel disrespected because you disagree and called my post "bull plop 

As I have said before, there are all sorts of logos out there that don't offend.  The Indians even have one that is supposedly their primary logo.  Why use one that is clearly racist and offends another culture?  (Hint: they are doing it to make money.)

[rocket surgeon]

Why did you use "millenial" at all in your original post? Clearly, you chose that word for a reason.

I get so fed up with other generations denouncing millenials. It's so unnatural carnal knowledgeing ridiculous.

and that's...ok.  i can respect your opinion and disgust.  we just disagree, no big deal   why do people have to get so worked up when there is a disagreement?  we need more people to just accept that there are going to be disagreements and refrain from personalizing them. 

  *(oh boy, i have a feeling some here are putting this post into a folder to beat me with later-fair enough.  sometimes we all need to be reminded of this)

[rocket surgeon]

As I have said before, there are all sorts of logos out there that don't offend.  The Indians even have one that is supposedly their primary logo.  Why use one that is clearly racist and offends another culture?  (Hint: they are doing it to make money.)

BINGO! when they get hurt in the wallet, it will end...quickly

[jesmu84]

and that's...ok.  i can respect your opinion and disgust.  we just disagree, no big deal   why do people have to get so worked up when there is a disagreement?  we need more people to just accept that there are going to be disagreements and refrain from personalizing them. 

  *(oh boy, i have a feeling some here are putting this post into a folder to beat me with later-fair enough.  sometimes we all need to be reminded of this)

It's not about personalizing. It's about you having a very skewed notion toward an entire generation. An extremely hypocritical viewpoint

[Babybluejeansfan]

It's real simple.  Just be respectful. 

Why not use this same logical approach to the national anthem?  It's real simple. Just be respectful.

[Babybluejeansfan]

Welcome back Chicos

If I were really whom you claim, I would have a vigorous defense of the Indians Chief Wahoo.   Every just relax.