Holly Ellenson speaks...

[rocky_warrior]

Who knew that Holly had such a passion for D1 scholarship information...

[AZWarrior]

By a long shot.  Men's soccer has 204 teams at D1.  Women have 327.  Furthermore men have a scholarship limit of 9.9 while women have 14.0.

Oh, the inequality.

Yes, I supposed it's compensating for no women's football.

[Jay Bee]

CPA's bound by GAAP would nut at the chance to do what revenue and expense reporting by the NCAA allows.

It's complete nonsense. Not comparable school to school and subject to numerous choices.

Do not base thinking on reported NCAA program revenues or expenses, unless you want to be a stupid jerk.

[AZWarrior]

If you are a dude and don't play basketball or football, your chances at a DI scholarship are pretty small....much smaller than a female athlete.

So you're saying it would be highly unusual for a guy to get a full-ride track scholly, then?

(3.....2....1.....)

[ChicosBailBonds]

CPA's bound by GAAP would nut at the chance to do what revenue and expense reporting by the NCAA allows.

It's complete nonsense. Not comparable school to school and subject to numerous choices.

Do not base thinking on reported NCAA program revenues or expenses, unless you want to be a stupid jerk.

Don't disagree with you at all, except it isn't really the NCAA advocating any of that accounting.  Each school does it their own way and I've said that here for many years. Some apply expenses to the school, some do it in athletics, some shift stuff all over the place, but that isn't a NCAA thing....that's a school driven decision on how they want to recognize revenues and expenses.

However, it's all we have....if you have a better source, have at it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you're saying it would be highly unusual for a guy to get a full-ride track scholly, then?

(3.....2....1.....)

I don't want to say that, but more difficult.  Only 12.6 men's track and field scholarships.  Women have 18. 

I don't remember how many MU is actually covering for Track and Field these days.  In other words, are we fully utilizing all scholarships available?

[Jay Bee]

However, it's all we have....if you have a better source, have at it.

That's not the debate. It's "is it a good source"???

The answer is NO. There is no good source. So citing those bogus sources is silly. End.

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's not the debate. It's "is it a good source"???

The answer is NO. There is no good source. So citing those bogus sources is silly. End.

It's a source, you can debate whether it is good or not.  It attempts to recognize revenues and expenses.   I have actual budget sheets from when I was there, and quite frankly what I posted isn't that far bad at all based on the benchmarks of old.  Only the numbers have gotten bigger across both sides.

[MU82]

How 'bout that Holly Ellenson!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

How 'bout that Holly Ellenson!

no chit, a"ina?  Who knew that her tweet "Smoke and Mirrors" was actually referring to University & athletic department accounting methods?

[mikekinsellaMVP]

Courtesy of the school's Twitter account this morning:

@Marquette U

"Follow your own passions and interests, not those of your parents, friends, or society."
10:56am - 25 Apr 16

"Follow your own passions, not your parents" + "Up" reference (code for high jump) = obvious shade from the University towards Mama Ellenson

The saga continues.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think that this is it.  Clear and straight to the point.

I asked one of my NCAA guys in Indianapolis and literally cut and paste the question to him.

He said he is 99% sure it is full scholarship or none.  He doesn't work in that area, and is checking with someone who does.

Another friend that actually does work in that area is on PTO this week, but maybe I get an answer from her anyway.

More to come.

[blikemike2]

If Wally is so good (per his mom), why doesn't he put his name into the NBA Draft and get evaluated by the pro scouts. Might be a cold splash of water to Mrs Ellenson's face. Cripes

[Jay Bee]

I asked one of my NCAA guys in Indianapolis and literally cut and paste the question to him.

He said he is 99% sure it is full scholarship or none.  He doesn't work in that area, and is checking with someone who does.

Another friend that actually does work in that area is on PTO this week, but maybe I get an answer from her anyway.

More to come.

Good thing he left the 1% open, because.......

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good thing he left the 1% open, because.......

.......

[Billy Hoyle]

.......

Because your wrong.

Schools have the discretion to award less than the full value of a scholarship in a headcount sport. If they give any amount, however it counts as a whole scholarship against the scholarship limit. For example, if a school has tuition remission and a staff member's son or daughter is recruited for basketball then the school could only give them what is not covered (usually fees, room and board).

Or, in a more common scenario, a school may not be able to fully find a sport, e,g.Women's Tennis. You get 8 scholarships in WTEN but the school may only fund 6.5, so some athletes will get a full but others may only get $30,000 (plus an academic scholarship or need grant if they qualify) but they count as one full scholarship.

No need to reach out to your "contact" at the NCAA, because you just did.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Because your wrong.

Schools have the discretion to award less than the full value of a scholarship in a headcount sport. If they give any amount, however it counts as a whole scholarship against the scholarship limit. For example, if a school has tuition remission and a staff member's son or daughter is recruited for basketball then the school could only give them what is not covered (usually fees, room and board).

Or, in a more common scenario, a school may not be able to fully find a sport, e,g.Women's Tennis. You get 8 scholarships in WTEN but the school may only fund 6.5, so some athletes will get a full but others may only get $30,000 (plus an academic scholarship or need grant if they qualify) but they count as one full scholarship.

No need to reach out to your "contact" at the NCAA, because you just did.

"I've got a guy..."

[Billy Hoyle]

This is true. However...financial aid for student athletes is indexed to NCAA criteria.

Nope. All financial aid in the Ivy is blind and based upon the FAFSA and school aid policies as submitted to the Ivy League. No special treatment for athletes outside of a very limited number of "matches" (Harvard can give a higher amount due to their aid policies than Dartmouth so Dartmouth could increase to match Harvard's aid package if they really want that player).

[keefe]

Nope. All financial aid in the Ivy is blind and based upon the FAFSA and school aid policies as submitted to the Ivy League. No special treatment for athletes outside of a very limited number of "matches" (Harvard can give a higher amount due to their aid policies than Dartmouth so Dartmouth could increase to match Harvard's aid package if they really want that player).

You are wrong. The awards are indexed.

[StillAWarrior]

Nope. All financial aid in the Ivy is blind and based upon the FAFSA and school aid policies as submitted to the Ivy League. No special treatment for athletes outside of a very limited number of "matches" (Harvard can give a higher amount due to their aid policies than Dartmouth so Dartmouth could increase to match Harvard's aid package if they really want that player).

I don't know about the "indexed to NCAA criteria" thing (not even sure what this means), but I can confirm that in our experience they are focused on household income, and other Ivies promise to match Harvard or Yale (presumably because they have the biggest pots of money and offer the best aid).  Coaches are completely involved in recruiting pitches and make a lot of great representations about all the financial aid available ("ignore that calculator on the website, it's not accurate") -- without even knowing the recruit's household financial situation.  Once you talk with financial aid, you get the real story ("the calculator on the website is pretty accurate") and learn that the household financial situation is the only thing that matters.

[NavinRJohnson]

If Wally is so good (per his mom), why doesn't he put his name into the NBA Draft and get evaluated by the pro scouts. Might be a cold splash of water to Mrs Ellenson's face. Cripes

Right, because I'm sure that was her point...that he's so good. Good grief.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because your wrong.

Schools have the discretion to award less than the full value of a scholarship in a headcount sport. If they give any amount, however it counts as a whole scholarship against the scholarship limit. For example, if a school has tuition remission and a staff member's son or daughter is recruited for basketball then the school could only give them what is not covered (usually fees, room and board).

Or, in a more common scenario, a school may not be able to fully find a sport, e,g.Women's Tennis. You get 8 scholarships in WTEN but the school may only fund 6.5, so some athletes will get a full but others may only get $30,000 (plus an academic scholarship or need grant if they qualify) but they count as one full scholarship.

No need to reach out to your "contact" at the NCAA, because you just did.

Welcome to the board for the "first time" and locked in on this topic. LOL.   Guess what, I'm still going to get it directly from the NCAA if you don't mind.  You may be right, as I said....which is why I'm checking.  If you read the thread, I've stated what I think the rule is, not emphatically said what it is.  That's why we're checking.

But hey, again, welcome to the board "Billy".   LOL

[Billy Hoyle]

You are wrong. The awards are indexed.

The only "index" in the Ivy is the admissions formula.

Outside of basketball Financial Aid is not even taken into consideration for rosters and limits. In basketball only recruited individuals receiving aid are counted and must stay below the 13 limit for men, 15 for women. However, anyone not recruited under the Ivy definition or recruiting but not receiving institutional aid is not counted towards the 13/15.

The Director of Financial Aid must sign off that all student-athletes were awarded institutional financial aid under the same formula as the rest of the student body and report that to the Ivy League offices annually. It is not uncommon for highly sought recruits to be ruled out because their award package is not high enough and their out of pocket expenses will be too high and they'd rather get a full scholarship elsewhere.

[Billy Hoyle]

Welcome to the board for the "first time" and locked in on this topic. LOL.  Guess what, I'm still going to get it directly from the NCAA if you don't mind.  You may be right, as I said....which is why I'm checking.  If you read the thread, I've stated what I think the rule is, not emphatically said what it is.  That's why we're checking.

But hey, again, welcome to the board "Billy".   LOL

like I said, you already did.

Long time lurker here but being an expert in this area I figured I'd register and correct misinformation. I apologize if it hurt your feelings.

[StillAWarrior]

You may be right, as I said....which is why I'm checking.  If you read the thread, I've stated what I think the rule is, not emphatically said what it is.

Ahem...

"Head count sports = FULL RIDE

Equivalency sports  = partials or full ride

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/sports-scholarships/head-count-versus-equivalency-scholarships.htm

Black and white.  Been this way since I worked in various athletic departments and I don't think anything has changed it.  We're going through this with my son right now, who would be in an equivalency sport."

I'd be interested to see what you characterize as emphatic.  I suppose you could have said, "...and nothing has changed."  But otherwise, when you're using all caps and dropping a "Black and white" on me, I'd consider that pretty emphatic.