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buckchuckler

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 01, 2016, 01:13:28 PM
The Cubs have used 13 different players in LF this season, including 3 pitchers. Their star rookie catcher has started 4 games out there. Maddon moves guys around because he likes to push them out of their comfort zones. If Bryant played for basically any other manager, he'd be solely a 3B. He played 159 games in the minors, all of them at third. If Arenado played for Maddon, he'd likely see some time at first or even in the OF.

Bryant's "versatility" is primarily a product of Maddon's coaching style. Does it add to his value? Maybe but not necessarily. His primary value is, was, and always will be his bat.

Maddon never once played Gold Glover Evan Longoria in the OF. 

By the numbers, Bryant is pretty "meh" at 3rd.  He has accounted for 1 DRS there, and his fielding percentage is 13% points below the average for the position. 
Arenado on the other hand, has accounted for 12 DRS and has a fielding % 38 points above average.  Any one that would put that guy in the defensive wasteland of LF, yikes. 

buckchuckler

Quote from: PTM on July 01, 2016, 03:11:09 PM
Yet still waiting on the MLB to address that Cardinals issue.

Well, isn't the guy that acted in the Cards/Astros situation in jail?  Completely separate issues obviously.  I'm glad MLB hammered Boston here.  They intentionally tried to deceive the league with their practices, it is good to see them held accountable. 

Vander Blue Man Group

Quote from: brandx on July 01, 2016, 01:01:59 PM
What is the value? He's obviously the best 3B on the Cubs. His "versatility" means putting an inferior player at the position.

Not when you're putting Baez at 3rd. In the case of LaStella I agree with you.

Lennys Tap

Quote from: buckchuckler on July 01, 2016, 04:41:08 PM


By the numbers, Bryant is pretty "meh" at 3rd.  He has accounted for 1 DRS there, and his fielding percentage is 13% points below the average for the position. 
Arenado on the other hand, has accounted for 12 DRS and has a fielding % 38 points above average.  Any one that would put that guy in the defensive wasteland of LF, yikes.

"Meh" at third, less than "meh" in the outfield. Schwarber played multiple positions, too. The fact that he was lousy at multiple positions didn't make him "versatile" - it made him a bat looking for a hiding place on defense. Zobrist is versatile. Schwarber is not. Bryant "meh".

brandx

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 01, 2016, 05:26:56 PM
Not when you're putting Baez at 3rd. In the case of LaStella I agree with you.

Baez is superior to Bryant? Not in my world.

ChitownSpaceForRent

I think the Cubs best lineup is when Bryant is in Left and Baez is at 3B with the usual suspects in their normal positions.

brandx

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 02, 2016, 01:39:41 PM
I think the Cubs best lineup is when Bryant is in Left and Baez is at 3B with the usual suspects in their normal positions.

I agree about Baez being in the lineup, but I think the best lineup is with Baez at 2B and Zobrist in right.

Vander Blue Man Group

Quote from: brandx on July 02, 2016, 12:50:53 PM
Baez is superior to Bryant? Not in my world.

As a player?  No.

Defensively, yes.

🏀

Quote from: buckchuckler on July 01, 2016, 04:42:40 PM
Well, isn't the guy that acted in the Cards/Astros situation in jail?  Completely separate issues obviously.  I'm glad MLB hammered Boston here.  They intentionally tried to deceive the league with their practices, it is good to see them held accountable. 

The Red Sox wanted to pay kids more money, using a vauge MLB language, let's drop the hammer on them.

The Cardinals have an executive that pleads guilty of corporate espionage, let's wait til all the facts are out.

They are a punishment issue together.

Lennys Tap

Just saw (on replay) the collision in left center field yesterday at Wrigley. I know many loves the whole "mad scientist" approach that Joe Maddon brings, but the Cubs came very close to losing their second great young hitter to injury while he was playing out of position. Poor defense isn't the only risk you take trying to be smarter than everyone else.

buckchuckler

Quote from: PTM on July 03, 2016, 02:36:01 PM
The Red Sox wanted to pay kids more money, using a vauge MLB language, let's drop the hammer on them.


I'm not defending the Cards or their lack of punishment, but that is a pretty disingenuous representation of what Boston did.  They were in no way trying to help out under privileged kids or anything like that.  They were skirting the rules by paying dirty trainers.   

MerrittsMustache

Quote from: buckchuckler on July 01, 2016, 04:41:08 PM
Maddon never once played Gold Glover Evan Longoria in the OF. 

By the numbers, Bryant is pretty "meh" at 3rd.  He has accounted for 1 DRS there, and his fielding percentage is 13% points below the average for the position. 
Arenado on the other hand, has accounted for 12 DRS and has a fielding % 38 points above average.  Any one that would put that guy in the defensive wasteland of LF, yikes.

KB's fielding % is actually 1.3% points below the average for 3B and Arenado is 3.7% above. Percentages can be tricky  ;)

Regardless, Arenado is a better defensive player than Bryant. Offensively, they're pretty even.

Bryant: .279/.373/.575, OPS of .947, oWAR of 3.4

Arenado: .290/.364/.574, OPS of .938 and oWAR of 2.4


MerrittsMustache

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 05, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
Just saw (on replay) the collision in left center field yesterday at Wrigley. I know many loves the whole "mad scientist" approach that Joe Maddon brings, but the Cubs came very close to losing their second great young hitter to injury while he was playing out of position. Poor defense isn't the only risk you take trying to be smarter than everyone else.

I've often heard that Bryant will eventually be the Cubs' primary LF. If that's the case, they might be better off putting him out there and letting Baez, LaStella and Candelario play 3B and be done with it.

If Soler can get healthy, I doubt he'll still be with the team a month from now.

Blackhat

Braun snubbed...whatever, I'll take the 4th in NL hitting and top 10 in NL OPS over this AS bull.

MerrittsMustache

Quote from: Blackhat on July 05, 2016, 06:51:01 PM
Braun snubbed...whatever, I'll take the 4th in NL hitting and top 10 in NL OPS over this AS bull.

He's a liar and a cheater. The players and coaches have spoken. They don't want him.

Tugg Speedman

#415
Cubs entire infield to start the all-star game.  Only the 63 cardinals have accomplished this feat.

Fowler, Lester and Arrieta also made it, so 7 players in total.  Arrieta could also start.

Also on Monday they became the first team this season to have all nine starters under 26.

The biggest mistake in baseball history will be the Red Sox letting Theo go.  Number 2 will be the Red Soxs trading Babe Ruth.

Blackhat

Yeah and the Giants and Rangers should have 15 each. 

MUsoxfan

Quote from: Jesse Livermore on July 06, 2016, 10:18:19 AM
Cubs entire infield to start the all-star game.  Only the 63 cardinals have accomplished this feat

The feat of winning a popularity contest?  Russell making the team is a travashamockery

ChitownSpaceForRent

Quote from: MUsoxfan on July 06, 2016, 10:46:16 AM
The feat of winning a popularity contest?  Russell making the team is a travashamockery

Russell is a joke, but you can't argue that any of the others don't deserve to be there in some capacity.

MerrittsMustache

#419
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 06, 2016, 10:57:49 AM
Russell is a joke, but you can't argue that any of the others don't deserve to be there in some capacity.

Let's not get carried away. Fowler got off to a great start but he hit .207 in June and hasn't played since June 18. You could make a strong case that Polanco or Braun should be there ahead of him.

brandx

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 06, 2016, 10:57:49 AM
Russell is a joke, but you can't argue that any of the others don't deserve to be there in some capacity.

Seager should be starting and Villar should be also be there. Segura, Crawford and Cozart could also make a case.

And, can't we find a place for Omar Infante?

brandx

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM
Let's not get carried away. Fowler got off to a great start but he hit .207 in June and hasn't played since June 18. You could make a strong case that Polanco or Braun should be there ahead of him.

There are a lot more than those two who should be ahead of Fowler.

MerrittsMustache

Quote from: brandx on July 06, 2016, 12:59:34 PM
There are a lot more than those two who should be ahead of Fowler.

No doubt. I just pulled the first two "snubs" that I could think of.

MU82

Quote from: Jesse Livermore on July 06, 2016, 10:18:19 AM
Cubs entire infield to start the all-star game.  Only the 63 cardinals have accomplished this feat.

Fowler, Lester and Arrieta also made it, so 7 players in total.  Arrieta could also start.

Also on Monday they became the first team this season to have all nine starters under 26.

The biggest mistake in baseball history will be the Red Sox letting Theo go.  Number 2 will be the Red Soxs trading Babe Ruth.

I'll at least think about agreeing with this when Theo wins his fourth World Series with the Cubs and goes on to be recognized as the best executive in baseball history.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Vander Blue Man Group

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM
Let's not get carried away. Fowler got off to a great start but he hit .207 in June and hasn't played since June 18. You could make a strong case that Polanco or Braun should be there ahead of him.

Who cares if he struggled in June?  In the NL he is only behind Ozuna, Harper, and Polanco in WAR.  He is deserving overall. 

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