Author Topic: Some perspective (Read 17878 times)

ChicosBailBonds · « **on:** March 13, 2016, 01:55:52 PM »

I keep hearing this craziness about sucking, or 3 years no post season. First of all, no one knows the latter yet, so let's wait a few hours.

Secondly, some of you guys must be in their 20's or 30's....I can't believe anyone in their 40's has already forgotten about Dukiet and O'Neill's first few years. It took KO 4 years to go to any post season tournament. Wojo is in year two and the team improved from the first year to the second. We'll see what happens next year.

Good recruits coming in, players understanding the style he wants to play..this is why you give a coach 4 or 5 years. Some of this knee jerk stuff....give it a rest. No way we should have missed all the post season Buzz's last year, but we did..he left...his guys transferred or didn't come, what was left wasn't the right pieces. So we've had a coach have to take what he has and try to get his guys into the mix, that takes time if you aren't cutting corners, cheating, etc. Patience.

Scooter22 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:04:18 PM »

dgies9156 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:05:58 PM »

Chicos, I'm from the 1970s and I agree. It takes time to rebuild given what the Hillbilly left us with. I miss the thrill of the NCAA Championships with a Marquette entry and I've been regular following our team around the Midwest when tournament time comes. Yeah, I miss that.

But sometimes we have to invest. I've read some posts comparing us to, say General Electric. Coach Wojo is an investment and while a lot of us thought Henry might pay bigger short-term dividends than he did, the fact is that by any measure we're improving. We have what a lot of public companies have, restless shareholders (or stakeholders, in our case).

When Boeing started building the 747, for example, they knew that the work that was started in 1966 was not going to generate cash flow until 1970 and probably would not be profitable until the 1980s. Did that mean they didn't do it? No, they did and the 747 became the most ubiquitous airplane in the skies for 40 years.

We're no different. Wojo did not have the luxury Hank Raymonds did where he was taking over a defending national champion with a strong reputation and an ability to open any front door of a star high-school player in America. Nothing we could have done in Milwaukee could have made a difference last year (it was a disaster) and this year, perhaps we underachieved. But a basketball coach is a long-term investment and what we're hoping is that Marquette's presence in the NCAA in the future will be as ubiquitous as the 747s during the last 40 years.

We're on the right path with Coach Wojo. There's nothing that tells me this was not a great hire.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:10:50 PM »

I'm on the fence whether it was a good, great, bad hire. I just don't know....I don't think any of us will know for a few more years.

What I do like, he wants to win, he is passionate about winning, he works hard, demands that of his players, represents the university well (it seems). Good recruiter, stresses defense first (that doesn't mean we are good at defense, but I think that is the right thing to stress).

What I don't like or am uncertain of....young staff. I'd like some experience there. I said the same thing when Crean was here. I'd like to see us get some guys that can shoot and handle the ball. Last 4 or 5 years the recruiting bios said that was coming, but it hasn't materialized to the level I would have liked. I remember the buzz on this board last year about Henry's 3 point shooting, and I didn't believe it then and I certainly don't believe it now. High school is a different thing altogether when shooting the 3....you're tired, long guys defending, etc. If we can get some kids to stretch the defense, and have a PG with heady decision making, cut down on the turnovers...I think we'll be ok.

But a few more years to know.

Earl Tatum · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:13:11 PM »

I remember the Dukiet and Deane years and even O'Neil.Really Hate to say that the only coach
the administration hired that had some results was "Tan Tommy". Liked him until he pulled out
of MU.

Goose · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:19:57 PM »

Chico's

As you know some of us are old enough to remember a lot of coaches along the way. I really have zero problem on not making postseason if the trend is going the right way. I have stated many times that I do not share the optimism for next season. If Henry leaves I am not so sure we play .500 ball next season.

More troubling to me is that I really do not see the talent in the program. Next year you have several guys that are mid to upper end D1 players and that is about it. I am sorry but the thought of getting jacked up for transfer from nowhere does not do it for me. Buzz left the joint in shambles and that is not Wojo's fault. Unfortunately fixing that is his problem.

I have always felt you have to sometimes go backwards to move ahead. My fear is going backwards for three years and not being able to buck the trend. This opinion is not based on my feelings of the program four decades ago. I love that era and Al as much as anyone on here but that is simply very fond memories. I have felt for long time that the school takes the program and supporters for granted and might be taking a big gamble on that philosophy.

Again, I am not going anywhere. I love MU and the basketball program way too much to jump ship. That said, I can say that I have moved from frustrated to really not caring as much. If good things happen I will be excited and if they do not I probably will care a little bit less.

Earl Tatum · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:23:03 PM »

Goose said it much better than I did. Agree with him. Been MU fan since Al's years.Talent isn't
there anymore.

Jay Bee · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:26:20 PM »

Impossible to have any kind of opinion on Wojo for another 3 years.

keefe · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:29:37 PM »

Here is the Acid Test: Today is Selection Sunday.

Q1. How many Scoopers will bother to watch the Selection Sunday broadcast?

Q2: Will the Marquette players, cheerleaders, and fans jam the Mug Rack today to watch Selection Sunday?

BM1090 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:32:51 PM »

Quote from: keefe on March 13, 2016, 02:29:37 PM

Here is the Acid Test: Today is Selection Sunday.

Q1. How many Scoopers will bother to watch the Selection Sunday broadcast?

Q2: Will the Marquette players, cheerleaders, and fans jam the Mug Rack today to watch Selection Sunday?

1. I'm watching.

2. Nope.

Goose · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:33:17 PM »

Keefe

I will be in the Mugrack with my "Give 'em Hell, Al" pin on. Come join me, I'm buying!!

keefe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:35:25 PM »

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 02:33:17 PM

Keefe

I will be in the Mugrack with my "Give 'em Hell, Al" pin on. Come join me, I'm buying!!

Man, two Old China Hands swapping tall tales in the bosom of where it all started... That would be a great afternoon, Goose!

NotAnAlum · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:46:16 PM »

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 02:19:57 PM

More troubling to me is that I really do not see the talent in the program. Next year you have several guys that are mid to upper end D1 players and that is about it.

You don't see the talent in the program??? Wojo's first recruiting class had 5 guys. I'll discount HE because I assume your point is well he is leaving. But then we have Haanif, a guy who after his freshman year many are giving a good chance of becoming MU's all time leading scorer. You have a point guard who was probably the best freshman point we've had since D James. In the current class you have 2 signed both top 100 kids. If Marcus Howard signs that will be a top 35 PG. Add to that Rowsey, a kid who lead his D-1 team in scoring as a freshman. MU's problem at PG (which is the main thing that got us into this mess) will appear to be fixed. You seem to discount getting a rebounding 4 as a grad transfer. Let me ask you this. Who in their right mind is going to come to MU as long as HE is guaranteed 35+ minutes at that position. Once its for sure that HE is gone I would bet money that MU will get a grad transfer because the PT will be there for sure.
You guys have got to step away from the window. The glass is more than 1/2 full. My biggest question with Wojo is still his coaching but his ability to put talent on the team is already a proven yes. Remember we aren't even done with his second recruiting class

muwarrior69 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 02:19:57 PM

Chico's

As you know some of us are old enough to remember a lot of coaches along the way. I really have zero problem on not making postseason if the trend is going the right way. I have stated many times that I do not share the optimism for next season. If Henry leaves I am not so sure we play .500 ball next season.

More troubling to me is that I really do not see the talent in the program. Next year you have several guys that are mid to upper end D1 players and that is about it. I am sorry but the thought of getting jacked up for transfer from nowhere does not do it for me. Buzz left the joint in shambles and that is not Wojo's fault. Unfortunately fixing that is his problem.

I have always felt you have to sometimes go backwards to move ahead. My fear is going backwards for three years and not being able to buck the trend. This opinion is not based on my feelings of the program four decades ago. I love that era and Al as much as anyone on here but that is simply very fond memories. I have felt for long time that the school takes the program and supporters for granted and might be taking a big gamble on that philosophy.

Again, I am not going anywhere. I love MU and the basketball program way too much to jump ship. That said, I can say that I have moved from frustrated to really not caring as much. If good things happen I will be excited and if they do not I probably will care a little bit less.

Fifty years ago was my Freshman year. Not in my wildest dreams did I think Al would bring Marquette to it "Golden Era" of basketball. Let's give Wojo a few more years. Seton Hall looked like a ship wreck this time last year and look where they are now. The problem we have had over the last few years is balance. We have had great guards but no bigs. Now we have bigs but lack guards and no one who can shoot consistently from the perimeter. Lastly, when was the last time we had a full contingent of 13 scholarship players, not including walk-ons that were given scholarships.

Goose · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:50:40 PM »

NotanAlum

Maybe we value talent from a different perspective. There is talent, just not enough of it.

MUWarrior

Different times than when Al was here. Far from giving up hope, simply do share the optimism others feel.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:50:53 PM »

Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 13, 2016, 02:23:03 PM

Goose said it much better than I did. Agree with him. Been MU fan since Al's years.Talent isn't
there anymore.

That can be said across every school. College basketball has changed dramtically and for you older guys, I think you just refuse to accept it. The programs you speak of back in the day, kids were around 4 years, more scholarships kept kids at just 25 to 35 schools...that's all gone now.

Today's Kansas, UNC, UCLA, etc...none of the schools have the experienced talent that was around back in the day. If they get premiere players, they are gone within a year. Waiting for those days to happen again is a moot point. It doesn't mean I don't disagree with you guys, I really don't. I was lucky enough to watch John Wooden in person coaching. I just think folks need to accept the reality of how the world is today in college basketball. There is a strong argument that suggests not even going after 5 star players, because they won't be around. Focus on 3's and 4's, build your program from the experience angle.

Goose · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:54:13 PM »

Chico's

I am not talking talent level from forty years ago. Our talent level with HE was not top 75 this year. Without him, forget about it. Wojo is going to need to be a great coach in a hurry or he could be on a hot seat a year from now.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:54:37 PM »

Quote from: keefe on March 13, 2016, 02:29:37 PM

Here is the Acid Test: Today is Selection Sunday.

Q1. How many Scoopers will bother to watch the Selection Sunday broadcast?

Q2: Will the Marquette players, cheerleaders, and fans jam the Mug Rack today to watch Selection Sunday?

I will....two of my alma maters won their league, so I want to see where they are going.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2016, 02:57:13 PM »

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 02:54:13 PM

Chico's

I am not talking talent level from forty years ago. Our talent level with HE was not top 75 this year. Without him, forget about it. Wojo is going to need to be a great coach in a hurry or he could be on a hot seat a year from now.

I'll wait to judge the talent after seeing them with a bit more seasoning. Freshmen thrown to the wolves is usually a recipe for disaster..there are rare exceptions, but even then there is a guiding force of experience...Novak with the three amigos, for example.

keefe · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:02:37 PM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 02:54:37 PM

I will....two of my alma maters won their league, so I want to see where they are going.

I have to confess that I have never actually watched that show. But I always loved watching the Youtubes of our guys jumping up when Marquette was called. Won't happen this year.

NotAnAlum · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:03:47 PM »

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 02:54:13 PM

Our talent level with HE was not top 75 this year.

I flat out think you are wrong (from any perspective). Our talent was well beyond top 75. it just happened to be YOUNG.
But I'm sure there were Seton Hall fans last year saying "These freshman are over rated, we really don't have much talent. I mean we just lost to Marquette by 20 and they finished in last place"
Give it time.

KC_Warrior · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:06:19 PM »

Keep in mind this was a program that had been to 8 straight NCAAs and 3 straight sweet 16s. Any comparison to KO or Dukiet is invalid. This program has established a level of excellence that wasn't present in the 80s and 90s. Crean and Buzz should be the comparison not KO and Dukiet. That's why 3 straight years of no postseason is unacceptable. I'm not blaming Wojo & I'm not blaming the new AD or prez. They haven't even been here 2 years. That said, there needs to be some accountability. As I posted on my Twitter feed, if this were a business and it tanked after 8 years of sustained success - there would be changes.

mu_hilltopper · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:07:17 PM »

Patience? The counter argument: We've learned that coaches come and go when they want. Kids come and go when they want. Injuries happen. Recruits decide to go elsewhere. The ball bounces badly and you lose.

Lack of success festers. Kids being recruited today need to dip into 4+ year old archives to get excited about the MU program .. which means MU has burned through so much of the "program glow" the S16s and E8s gave off. Not all, but a lot.

MU had this rock solid program 5 years ago and a 3-4-5-6 year dry spell seemed, honestly, highly improbable. Ok, the OBE broke up? Fine, us, GTown, Nova are gonna dominate the NBE, year after year.

Now? Not even sure it's a coin flip we bust out of this slump, we're back to relying on catching a break.

So the OP is about patience. It's good people are impatient. You know what comes after that?

Apathy.

warriorchick · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:14:31 PM »

Quote from: KC_Warrior on March 13, 2016, 03:06:19 PM

As I posted on my Twitter feed, if this were a business and it tanked after 8 years of sustained success - there would be changes.

If that business had two different CEOs who resigned during those 8 years (including one who left the company in terrible shape when he left), the new CEO would be given a little more time than 2 years to turn things around, especially if he or she had to basically rebuild the business from scratch.

UticaBusBarn · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2016, 03:17:52 PM »

I have no problem with Coach Wojo and agree it will take a some years before we get an accurate read. However, all the elements appear to be in place for long, positive run.

I do not agree with folks that have second guessed Coach Wojo's plays/defence/schemes. Schemes do not win games, players do. He has shown a skill set, flexibility, and creativity that the previous two coaches did not. He also seems to recruit well, and knows exactly what type of player he wants.

What leaves me a bit perplexed is that the team was never able to build on its successful wins. The Warriors ended the season five and five. The last third of the season was one step forward, one step backwards (Think Georgetown win, Butler beatdown, St. John's win, Xavier beatdown.)

At times I had the impression while Wojo recruited a high level of talent, but in the end, this talent did not mix well on the floor. Was it individual player strength/weakness balance that failed to optimise team success?

At other times, I had the impression that Wojo was too intense and over-coached, putting too much pressure on the team. As result, were they so "tight", they would lose confidence when things did not go as planned and feared letting down their coach?

And, yes, the best thing that happens to freshmen is they become sophomores.

Weighed in its total, Marquette basketball is on track. Time will tell if it arrives on time at the right station.

News:

'23-'24 SOTG Tally

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

Please Register - It's FREE!

Next up: The long cold summer

Author Topic: Some perspective (Read 17878 times)