Some perspective

[TSmith34, Inc.]

when in reality with the strength(or lack thereof) of this conference Vis a vis the old BE, MU should be running through it, ala Memphis in the old CUSA.

Marquette should be "running through" undefeated a conference with two top 5 teams and a couple of other top 20 teams?  Really?

[omni77]

Seton Hall is the only reference that matters in my opinion. They started almost all (if not entirely all for some games) freshman last and suffered the kind of beat downs we got this year. Heck, WE delivered one of those beat downs in the first round of the BET. Look where they are now. Patience people, patience. Be happy we play in a league that turns boys into men faster than most. 1 year into the process of building a new system and recruiting the type of players that fit the system is not the time to be drawing any conclusions or passing any judgement. I'm as disappointed as anybody but college ball is more competitive now than it's ever been. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Our guys will improve and hopefully some holes will be plugged once HE situation is decided
 As for coaching. Coaches don't  commit 16 turnovers in a game

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU should be running through it, ala Memphis in the old CUSA.

I question how much you know about basketball when you make this absurd comment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So are you saying that youngsters are sophomores or junior/seniors?  Seton Hall's minutes were played by freshmen and sophomores except for Gordon.  And I guess that means we have no excuses next year to miss the tournament.  Our minutes will come from 2 seniors, 2 juniors and 2 sophomores (possibly 4 sophomores and another senior).  And if experience is the only thing that matters, maybe we should stop recruiting players like HE.  After all, he will be gone after this year and won't get to be a sophomore or junior or senior, which is all that matters. 

I agree with JayBee on the experience with the turnovers. There were a lot of points this season, I thought #12 would have been a better PG option, except for the whole FT situation. 

As for Cal, we brought back a ton after the E8 run and fell flat on our face. What happened then?

In reverse order.....brought back a ton after the Elite 8 run?  I don't know, ask Buzz Williams why we landed flat on our face.  To me, it all started when Vander Blue made a really stupid decision, but whatever.   

Do you watch the guys in practice every day or do the coaches?  I suspect the coaches do and determine who will be best in the turnover department.  Unfortunately, with young guys, turnovers happen and it may just be the lesser of two evils.

On the minutes, you keep comparing apples to oranges, and I don't know why.

Marquette's minutes this year by FRESHMEN was 48% of all minutes. 
Seton Hall's  minutes this year by FRESHMEN was 7.7% of all minutes.



So I ask you, why do you continue to make absurd comparisons?

[Lennys Tap]

Va Tech...same thing
Zach Leday....top scorer....Transfer Junior from South Florida
Seth Allen....2nd leading scorer....Transfer Junior from Maryland
Justin Bibbs....3rd leading scorer...Sophomore

They played freshmen, but their top three guys had experience, including two that played at other schools and transferred to VaTech and sat out an extra year to get more experience.

None of those guys were at Virginia Tech when Buzz arrived. I don't think any of Tech's contributors were in Blacksburg when Buzz arrived. This year Wojo had two top 100 (Luke and Duane) and one top 30 (JJJ) player left from the Buzz regime.

Buzz took over a much worse program and a much barer cupboard than Wojo. And his team was 41 slots higher than us in Pomeroy and are in the postseason. Any MU fan who's not at least a little disappointed is in denial.

[tower912]

None of those guys were at Virginia Tech when Buzz arrived. I don't think any of Tech's contributors were in Blacksburg when Buzz arrived. This year Wojo had two top 100 (Luke and Duane) and one top 30 (JJJ) player left from the Buzz regime.

Buzz took over a much worse program and a much barer cupboard than Wojo. And his team was 41 slots higher than us in Pomeroy and are in the postseason. Any MU fan who's not at least a little disappointed is in denial.

There is no doubt that Buzz is a better coach than Wojo right now.   And I have little doubt that if Buzz had stayed, the 13-14 season would have been the outlier and MU would be back where we all want it to be.    But that ship has sailed.   And when it sailed the program hit an iceberg.   So, disappointed, yes, but not ready to throw Wojo overboard.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is no doubt that Buzz is a better coach than Wojo right now.   And I have little doubt that if Buzz had stayed, the 13-14 season would have been the outlier and MU would be back where we all want it to be.    But that ship has sailed.   And when it sailed the program hit an iceberg.   So, disappointed, yes, but not ready to throw Wojo overboard.

Buzz goes for the quick fix, that's fine...that's his MO.  Transfers, JUCOs, etc.   He got two his first year, and that paid off very well for him this year having two guys that have been in college basketball for three years (two years playing, a third year practicing during transfer period).   

MU is taking the long term, consistent approach.   It is a LOT easier to coach guys that have multiple years under their belts, more mature, stronger bodies, etc.  That's what Buzz has always done.   Buzz with high school players turned college freshmen....not so great.

So that's the question I ask, is Buzz, the coach of college freshmen that good...better than Wojo?  Based on what?  What we saw at MU certainly isn't the case with Buzz and young players.  The difference here is MU isn't going for massive quick fix.  I have no doubt we will plug some holes where we can with transfers, JUCO, etc, but that's not the bread and butter of this team or program moving forward. 

[tower912]

Buzz had the option of not having to play freshmen before they were ready.   Many of those freshmen who didn't play resented it and left before they could be developed.    Wojo didn't have that option.    Blue and Gardner sure developed OK.     And a really solid 5 year run with one off year is not a quick fix.       Better winning percentage, more NCAA wins than his predecessor in 3 fewer years.   You continue to think (because it was Buzz) that the issues that happened under his watch were systemic.    I view them as episodic, just as I viewed the issues that occurred at Marquette under Crean's watch.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Buzz had the option of not having to play freshmen before they were ready.   Many of those freshmen who didn't play resented it and left before they could be developed.    Wojo didn't have that option.    Blue and Gardner sure developed OK.     And a really solid 5 year run with one off year is not a quick fix.       Better winning percentage, more NCAA wins than his predecessor in 3 fewer years.

Blue and Gardner developed with other older guys around them to take off the load.  Wojo has had no such luxury.  Buzz with high school kids is a lot more suspect than he was with ready made players, I don't think you can deny this.  Buzz inheriting future NBA players is also pretty good.

We'll see how the freshmen at MU develop over the next number of years, but Buzz was always a better coach with guys that are ready made bodies, etc.  Wojo isn't playing the quick fix game, so the comparisons seem way off base to me.

[Goose]

Buzz and Wojo are apples and oranges. Not really sure why it even is a point of discussion. Good Buzz was very good and the Buzz with moving van packed in December was not very good...actually terrible. Chico's can play the devil's advocate on twenty threads if he cares to and that is fine. I think biggest thing he is missing is that HE was our best freshman and not having him around will cause a ripple affect next season.

IMO I do not think we have nearly enough talent coming back next year to be optimistic about. Even with HE the team had to work very hard for every basket in the half court offense. Wojo can take the methodical approach to the rebuild and hope it works. In addition, I hope he can create some excitement level to keep the fans and students on board. To me, 3-5 in toilet means nothing if next 15 are good, fun competitive basketball. At this point I am not sure on the latter happening.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is Rte. 50 cleared yet?

50 to 80mph winds on the mountain today, really bad....many of the chairs shut down, so I'm opting for a massage, a sushi making class with my daughter, probably some gambling on the Nevada side....put some money down on my Jayhawks and Hoosiers just for fun. 

I'll keep you posted.

EDIT:   Also adding a Bloody Mary bar today for my wife and I....a class on making the best bloody mary's....I'll keep you posted

[MarquetteDano]

None of those guys were at Virginia Tech when Buzz arrived. I don't think any of Tech's contributors were in Blacksburg when Buzz arrived. This year Wojo had two top 100 (Luke and Duane) and one top 30 (JJJ) player left from the Buzz regime.

Buzz took over a much worse program and a much barer cupboard than Wojo. And his team was 41 slots higher than us in Pomeroy and are in the postseason. Any MU fan who's not at least a little disappointed is in denial.

Agreed.  Doesn't mean we have to hate on Wojo.  I really have no dog in the Buzz sucks/Crean sucks fight but we must accept the coaching staff needs to improve as they had the players to get to the NIT ala Virginia Tech this year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Buzz and Wojo are apples and oranges. Not really sure why it even is a point of discussion. Good Buzz was very good and the Buzz with moving van packed in December was not very good...actually terrible. Chico's can play the devil's advocate on twenty threads if he cares to and that is fine. I think biggest thing he is missing is that HE was our best freshman and not having him around will cause a ripple affect next season.

IMO I do not think we have nearly enough talent coming back next year to be optimistic about. Even with HE the team had to work very hard for every basket in the half court offense. Wojo can take the methodical approach to the rebuild and hope it works. In addition, I hope he can create some excitement level to keep the fans and students on board. To me, 3-5 in toilet means nothing if next 15 are good, fun competitive basketball. At this point I am not sure on the latter happening.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  He took too many poor outside shots, in my opinion and at times we let him due too much.  He's a wonderful talent, we'll see if he goes...assuming he does, then other guys can blossom.  Teams lose their best player all the time, and do just fine.

The bigger point that I think so many of you are missing is what our new coach inherited and what he has to play with.  That's going to take time.  No senior leadership on this team, freshmen playing almost half the minutes....that means some rough outings, tired guys (freshmen aren't used to playing this much), and up and down results.   I'm going for the glass half full, and trying to follow the data as it stands.   Not fluffy data like RSCI rankings which mean nothing.