Some perspective

[ChicosBailBonds]

Keep in mind this was a program that had been to 8 straight NCAAs and 3 straight sweet 16s.  Any comparison to KO or Dukiet is invalid.  This program has established a level of excellence that wasn't present in the 80s and 90s.  Crean and Buzz should be the comparison not KO and Dukiet.  That's why 3 straight years of no postseason is unacceptable.  I'm not blaming Wojo & I'm not blaming the new AD or prez.  They haven't even been here 2 years.  That said, there needs to be some accountability.  As I posted on my Twitter feed, if this were a business and it tanked after 8 years of sustained success - there would be changes.

My point in bringing them up is when people say the program is struggling, or sucks, they have a weird baseline.

But if you are going to go with your line of thinking (which is fine), Wojo isn't coaching in the old Big East and all the positives that came with it.  He also inherited a team that didn't make the NIT and had a lot of missing pieces.

Buzz, continued what Crean had started.  So I don't think the comparisons to the previous years are necessarily fair, either....totally different contract, prestige, TV, and inheriting a team that simply wasn't constructed well. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, patience but with improvement.  Apathy happens when there are no signs of hope, no improvement.  That was not the case this year.  Improved from year 1 to year 2....pretty simple.  Young guys coming back with a season under their belt.

[Goose]

Chico's

Agreed minor improvement in year two over year one. Year three is the problem from my perspective. Disappointed a tad with season but more that they did not take advantage of HE season a tad more. The more I think about it the more I am very worried about next season.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It feels like we dealt a body blow to our program around the time of the freak out about Hiroshima.  I think the support is here to pull out of it and thankfully leadership has changed. 

Hilltoppers has it right, I don't get the hand wringing about people having high expectations. It sure is better than apathy.

Next year is really important for Wojo.

[NotAnAlum]

Maybe this will help with the part you feel is perplexing.  I've added the KenPom Power Rank next to the opponent keeping in mind that MU was 105 and if it was home, away or neutral

What leaves me a bit perplexed is that the team was never able to build on its successful wins. The Warriors ended the season five and five. The last third of the season was one step forward, one step backwards (Think Georgetown win 71,home, Butler beatdown 40,away, St. John's win 240,away, Xavier beatdown 15, neutral.)

Viewed that way the inconsistency just makes sense.  We lost to 2 teams that were a lot better than we were.  We beat one as expected and may have preformed a little better than predicted against GT even at home.  Add to that young teams tend to be inconsistent.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It feels like we dealt a body blow to our program around the time of the freak out about Hiroshima.  I think the support is here to pull out of it and thankfully leadership has changed. 

Hilltoppers has it right, I don't get the hand wringing about people having high expectations. It sure is better than apathy.

Next year is really important for Wojo.

Nothing wrong with high expectations, but rational thought should be applied, too.  I know for fans that is tough.

[tower912]

My time at Marquette straddled the Majerus and Dukiet eras.    This isn't anywhere near that bad.   I have my concerns about Wojo.   IMO, his success at MU will be determined by his ability to grow beyond his Duke roots and adapt to the Big East.      But leaving that alone, this is what it looks like when a coach leaves and leaves the cupboard empty.   It isn't a mystery.    Some to think because it says 'Marquette' on the jersey, that we should be exempt from the rebuilding process.    Myopic and narcissistic.    Sustained excellence is tough.   Legendary programs have down years.   Syracuse, Kentucky, UCLA, Duke.... all have had seasons where they went to the NIT or worse.   Right now, it is Marquette's turn in the barrel.    See my signature. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Nothing wrong with high expectations, but rational thought should be applied, too.  I know for fans that is tough.

What about my post is irrational?

[79Warrior]

You don't see the talent in the program???  Wojo's first recruiting class had 5 guys.  I'll discount HE because I assume your point is well he is leaving.  But then we have Haanif, a guy who after his freshman year many are giving a good chance of becoming MU's all time leading scorer.  You have a point guard who was probably the best freshman point we've had since D James.  In the current class you have 2 signed both top 100 kids.  If Marcus Howard signs that will be a top 35 PG.  Add to that Rowsey, a kid who lead his D-1 team in scoring as a freshman.  MU's problem at PG (which is the main thing that got us into this mess) will appear to be fixed.  You seem to discount getting a rebounding 4 as a grad transfer.  Let me ask you this.  Who in their right mind is going to come to MU as long as HE is guaranteed 35+ minutes at that position.  Once its for sure that HE is gone I would bet money that MU will get a grad transfer because the PT will be there for sure.
You guys have got to step away from the window.  The glass is more than 1/2 full.  My biggest question with Wojo is still his coaching but his ability to put talent on the team is already a proven yes.  Remember we aren't even done with his second recruiting class

Assuming HE leaves, there are some high quality players remaining, but not enough to be much more that a .500 BE team next season. We need some beef or our fellas will get abused again.

[muguru]

My point in bringing them up is when people say the program is struggling, or sucks, they have a weird baseline.

But if you are going to go with your line of thinking (which is fine), Wojo isn't coaching in the old Big East and all the positives that came with it.  He also inherited a team that didn't make the NIT and had a lot of missing pieces.

Buzz, continued what Crean had started.  So I don't think the comparisons to the previous years are necessarily fair, either....totally different contract, prestige, TV, and inheriting a team that simply wasn't constructed well.

I think that's what's perplexing for some...you hit the nail on the head..it's NOT the same conference(it's MUCH easier), which with missing pieces or not, MU still should not have taken the steps backwards they have. In a weaker conference MU can't even finish top half, when in reality with the strength(or lack thereof) of this conference Vis a vis the old BE, MU should be running through it, ala Memphis in the old CUSA.

Where the program took a nosedive was the horrible decisions to hire Pilarsz and Larry...who were hired to get rid of Buzz. That's where the problem all started...those two never enter the picture, Buzz may still be here, and MU would be humming along.

I was the one that at the time said that administration wanted to make the program like SLU(hence Hiroshima)...3 years later..does it look much different than SLU's?? Larry got what he wanted...to destroy MU, now others are left to pick up the pieces and who knows when, or if it will ever be the same.

[rocky_warrior]

I love the fortune 500 / GE capital comparisons. Let's replace *everyone* in the company today, and see if it's just as profitable next year, or two years from now. Lol, you guys are delusional.

[mu_hilltopper]

MU improved by +4 BE games this year, no doubt.  But that comes with a note:  We had a NBA lottery pick on our team.  Who will be likely be gone next year.  This year's excuse: We're rebuilding, we're young.

Selection Sunday 2017 is 365 days away.   If we need an excuse as to why MU misses again, it's built in:  Well, MU is rebuilding from losing Henry.

I apologize for the frustration.  Selection Sunday = Valentines Day with no date.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What about my post is irrational?

Nothing, I wasn't referencing you....sorry.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think that's what's perplexing for some...you hit the nail on the head..it's NOT the same conference(it's MUCH easier), which with missing pieces or not, MU still should not have taken the steps backwards they have. In a weaker conference MU can't even finish top half, when in reality with the strength(or lack thereof) of this conference Vis a vis the old BE, MU should be running through it, ala Memphis in the old CUSA.

Where the program took a nosedive was the horrible decisions to hire Pilarsz and Larry...who were hired to get rid of Buzz. That's where the problem all started...those two never enter the picture, Buzz may still be here, and MU would be humming along.

I was the one that at the time said that administration wanted to make the program like SLU(hence Hiroshima)...3 years later..does it look much different than SLU's?? Larry got what he wanted...to destroy MU, now others are left to pick up the pieces and who knows when, or if it will ever be the same.

That goes both ways.  The tougher conference meant better RPI, easier to get in if you just went .500 AND easier to recruit and land major players.

You're kidding me if you think we are anywhere close to SLU.   This is why I think you are so over the top.  SLU is in the A-10, we are in the Big East.  SLU is going the wrong way fast.  Not the way we are going.  I don't see the comparison at all.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Nothing, I wasn't referencing you....sorry.

Got it. Thanks

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I just hope we land some sort of PF so people can start being excited about how we increased our win total by 7, doubled our conference wins, and quadrupled our top 50 RPI wins despite having the 8th youngest roster in D1.

[KenoshaWarrior]

I just hope we land some sort of PF so people can start being excited about how we increased our win total by 7, doubled our conference wins, and quadrupled our top 50 RPI wins despite having the 8th youngest roster in D1.

Only because of Henry who will be gone

[ChicosBailBonds]

I just hope we land some sort of PF so people can start being excited about how we increased our win total by 7, doubled our conference wins, and quadrupled our top 50 RPI wins despite having the 8th youngest roster in D1.

A good recruiter will pitch exactly that...the future promise, the potential, etc

[statnik]

Yes, patience but with improvement.  Apathy happens when there are no signs of hope, no improvement.  That was not the case this year.  Improved from year 1 to year 2....pretty simple.  Young guys coming back with a season under their belt.

Two years of underachievement however, compared to expectations.

[MarquetteDano]

MU improved by +4 BE games this year, no doubt.  But that comes with a note:  We had a NBA lottery pick on our team.  Who will be likely be gone next year.  This year's excuse: We're rebuilding, we're young.

Selection Sunday 2017 is 365 days away.   If we need an excuse as to why MU misses again, it's built in:  Well, MU is rebuilding from losing Henry.

I apologize for the frustration.  Selection Sunday = Valentines Day with no date.

Frustrated too.  This team should have been at least an NIT team.  Yes, they were young.  Yes, we had a crap non-con schedule.  Yes, the NIT had a all-time high number of automatic qualifiers.

Nevertheless, a better coach could have taken our talent, even though they are young, even despite the non-con, despite a limited number of at-large,  and have received the NIT invite.

Not saying Wojo is a crap coach.  But the coaching staff needs to up their game alongside the players.

[MUDPT]

Frustrated by 3 things:

1. Teams with less talent making the tournament in our conference (how many top 100 players does Butler have?)

2. Coaches who we could have had also making the tournament (Cuonzo)

3. The whole experience factor as an excuse.  Cal's experience: 258; Seton Hall: 321. Us: 344.  Those two in the tournament, us in nothing. 

Need to learn to game the RPI like the PAC 12 did.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Two years of underachievement however, compared to expectations.

Expectations grounded in fallacies.  Many of us here told folks back in September how crazy people were to say NCAAs.  We said NIT at best.  Can't help it if people are delusional in their expectations. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Frustrated by 3 things:

1. Teams with less talent making the tournament in our conference (how many top 100 players does Butler have?)

2. Coaches who we could have had also making the tournament (Cuonzo)

3. The whole experience factor as an excuse.  Cal's experience: 258; Seton Hall: 321. Us: 344.  Those two in the tournament, us in nothing. 

Need to learn to game the RPI like the PAC 12 did.

1) Experience replaces talent often. 

2) Are you going to be real and compare what Cuonzo walked into vs Wojo?  Cuonzo took over a 21 win team that went to the 3rd round of the NIT.  Wojo took over a team that went.....nowhere.

3) Look at what you just said on experience.  Cal is 258 while MU is 344.  Meaning, 98% of teams were more experienced than MU, while 73% of teams were more experienced than Cal's.  Yes, it makes a difference.  Lets also not forget that it comes down to actually plays, not just guys that sit on the bench.  Seton Hall is led by a senior who has been to 3 NCAA tournaments.  Please show me the senior that we have on our team that has played in even one NCAA tournament?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Expectations grounded in fallacies.  Many of us here told folks back in September how crazy people were to say NCAAs.  We said NIT at best.  Can't help it if people are delusional in their expectations.

Is Rte. 50 cleared yet?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is Rte. 50 cleared yet?

Don't know....we've been at the resort since yesterday, got up here before the heavy stuff.  Coming down very hard right now, but most of the chair lifts were closed today, so we went snow shoeing instead.  Looking forward to the next three days.  Tonight, jacuzzi, drinking, maybe a movie.   


Chains required.....pretty nasty out there.    http://newtoreno.com/ca-us50-webcams-twin-bridges.htm