Recruiting as of 4/15/25

[jfp61]

Culture and talent are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the best programs have both.
As for the teams you mention, they didn't suffer a lack of star players:

Nova '16 had nine RSCI top 100 players and six future NBA players
UNC '17 had 10 RSCI top 100 players, including four top 20 players and four future NBA players
Nova '18 had seven RSCI top 100 players, including two top 20 players and five future NBA players
Virginia '19 had five RSCI 100 players and six future NBA players
Baylor '21 had five RSCI 100 players and two future NBA players (so far)


For comparison's sake, if Justin leaves, MU's roster next year will have two top 100 players, both of whom ranked in the 90s (Stevie and Oso). And I'd have to squint really hard to imagine anyone on the roster in the NBA, barring major progression.
Which team are you calling his "best?"
Last year's team - his highest in the preseason and final AP poll and probably most successful - had seven RSCI top 50 players. Another ranked 51st. Another ranked 55th. In all, 10 kids were in the top 100. Two were McDonald's All Americans.
Doesn't seem like his best team was loaded with scrappy, overlooked three stars who bought into a culture. They were all studs.

Final Four rosters say talent is pretty darn important.

Look, one (shortened) recruiting cycle is way too early to judge. But people here are kidding themselves if they think ignoring high-end talent in favor "overlooked" unranked kids is some sort of master plan to win a title. And, fwiw, I think Shaka knows this* and will go after the high-end talent. The question is whether he can land them at MU. Time will tell.

* Edit:
Just furthering the point, the first players Shaka went after when he got to Marquette were Seth Trimble (#32 ranked) and Leon Bond (#63). Seems like he wanted star talent. Which he should.

Loads of guys on this roster are just outside this composite in the 100-125 range.
Omax, Emarion, Joplin, Sean Jones.

Ben Gold is international, Kam Jones committed really early to MU and stopped himself from being "ranked higher" IMO, Keeyans an athletic prospect.

And we will add 2 more guys to this roster.

[GoldenEagles03]

Define compete
They need studs, not 3 star guys. Hell, I have seen plenty of posters here denigrate Kolek to the bench as a 3 star who can't compete

Depends what rating system you use.

Last years entire recruiting class was 4⭐ on ESPN.  As is Sean Jones who's Top 100 as well as Chase Ross.

[Lennys Tap]

Culture and talent are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the best programs have both.
As for the teams you mention, they didn't suffer a lack of star players:

Nova '16 had nine RSCI top 100 players and six future NBA players
UNC '17 had 10 RSCI top 100 players, including four top 20 players and four future NBA players
Nova '18 had seven RSCI top 100 players, including two top 20 players and five future NBA players
Virginia '19 had five RSCI 100 players and six future NBA players
Baylor '21 had five RSCI 100 players and two future NBA players (so far)

And MU's infamous "bare cupboard" roster had 7 RSCI top 100 players and 2 future NBA players.

But I digress. I actually agree with both you and Brew.

It takes talent to win.

But rebuilding programs like MU can't start at the top - you go after good players, coach em up and have success. Then (maybe) the 5 stars come.

[Herman Cain]

This is a good interview with Ben Gold. If this has already been posted I apologize in advance.

https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/ben-gold

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Culture and talent are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the best programs have both.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. I can't speak for others so maybe I'm misunderstanding them, but when I've said similar things in the past, what I've meant is that Shaka won't recruit players who don't fit his system and/or buy into his culture just because they are talented (which is something Shaka has said he did at Texas). If he can get talented players who fit his system and buy into culture, great! But if the choice is between a 5-star that doesn't buy in and a 3-star who does, Shaka will choose the 3-star. And before you try to say I'm setting up a false choice, I'm not saying that he can't have both. Just saying that he won't spend any time on guys who won't buy in no matter how talented they are.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

And MU's infamous "bare cupboard" roster had 7 RSCI top 100 players and 2 future NBA players.

But I digress. I actually agree with both you and Brew.

It takes talent to win.

But rebuilding programs like MU can't start at the top - you go after good players, coach em up and have success. Then (maybe) the 5 stars come.

Maybe we could pay a little more.  That seems to help too. 

[wadesworld]

I'll take the talent 7 days a week.

[MU82]

Like Al used to say, bring in one blue-chipper a class

Yeah, but Al said that before the blue-chipper was certain to turn pro after a year.

[4everwarriors]

I'll take the talent 7 days a week.

Kant beleaf eye agree wit u, aina?

[brewcity77]

But if the choice is between a 5-star that doesn't buy in and a 3-star who does, Shaka will choose the 3-star. And before you try to say I'm setting up a false choice, I'm not saying that he can't have both. Just saying that he won't spend any time on guys who won't buy in no matter how talented they are.

Exactly right. I think you'd rank them like this:

1) Buys into culture and is top talent.
2) Buys into culture and is less talented.
3) Doesn't buy into culture, regardless of talent level (even a #1 recruit like Ben Simmons or Markelle Fultz).

You don't just take talent for talent's sake. You build the culture and fit the best players you can get that match that culture into it. The more success you have, the more likely it is the higher level talents will start to gravitate toward your culture. Otherwise you end up like LSU (Ben Simmons) or Marquette (Henry Ellenson) in 2016 or Shaka's Texas (Jarrett Allen) in 2017. You might have some blue chips, but that alone doesn't guarantee winning.

[Pakuni]

And MU's infamous "bare cupboard" roster had 7 RSCI top 100 players and 2 future NBA players.

But I digress. I actually agree with both you and Brew.

It takes talent to win.

But rebuilding programs like MU can't start at the top - you go after good players, coach em up and have success. Then (maybe) the 5 stars come.

Generally agree, but isn't one of the benefits of hiring a guy like Shaka that he's a known quantity in the recruiting world who has immediate credibility with players/families/coaches/hangers on out on the trail, and has experience battling the bluebloods for top talent?
This isn't some relatively unknown assistant or a mid-major guy who needs to establish himself in the recruiting world. He ought not need to prove himself as a coach, at least in theory.

Anyhow, my criticism here isn't of Shaka's recruiting so far, I just think it's silly to suggest that there's some grand plan to compete for Big East championships and second weekends in March with a roster full of overlooked three stars. Or that this is the "smart" or "right way" to do it. Given some of the players he's made a priority - Trimble, Bond, Ty Rogers, AJ Casey - I don't think Shaka believes this either.

[wadesworld]

Generally agree, but isn't one of the benefits of hiring a guy like Shaka that he's a known quantity in the recruiting world who has immediate credibility with players/families/coaches/hangers on out on the trail, and has experience battling the bluebloods for top talent?
This isn't some relatively unknown assistant or a mid-major guy who needs to establish himself in the recruiting world. He ought not need to prove himself as a coach, at least in theory.

Anyhow, my criticism here isn't of Shaka's recruiting so far, I just think it's silly to suggest that there's some grand plan to compete for Big East championships and second weekends in March with a roster full of overlooked three stars. Or that this is the "smart" or "right way" to do it. Given some of the players he's made a priority - Trimble, Bond, Ty Rogers, AJ Casey - I don't think Shaka believes this either.

Agreed.

Not always, but in general your culture is going to be good if you are winning, and your culture will be bad if you're losing.  Talent wins.  Of course there are going to be players unhappy with their role.  That's the nature of a sport where about 8 players regularly contribute and rosters are 13 players.  The good players will stay if you're winning, and the bad ones probably were never going to contribute.

Of course fit matters some as well.  You don't want kids who are going to throw hands at every practice.  But we don't need to pass up on talent just to get some best friends together.

Since 1978, only 3 teams have won a national championship without a McDonald's All American (Maryland in 2002, UCONN in 2014, and Baylor in 2021).  In general, talent wins.  We certainly need more than what we have, and our incoming recruits will need to significantly outperform expectations if they're going to be key cogs in teams that are as successful as we hope.

[MUfan12]

We don't have to look too far back to see a talented, successful Marquette team that got their season torpedoed by a bad locker room.

[Daniel]

Yeah, but Al said that before the blue-chipper was certain to turn pro after a year.

True that.  Different landscape these days.

[Warrior Code]

Since 1978, only 3 teams have won a national championship without a McDonald's All American (Maryland in 2002, UCONN in 2014, and Baylor in 2021).  In general, talent wins.  We certainly need more than what we have, and our incoming recruits will need to significantly outperform expectations if they're going to be key cogs in teams that are as successful as we hope.

That's a pretty incredible stat. I'd like to see how that compares to Final Four teams in the same time frame.

[Uncle Rico]

Agreed.

Not always, but in general your culture is going to be good if you are winning, and your culture will be bad if you're losing.  Talent wins.  Of course there are going to be players unhappy with their role.  That's the nature of a sport where about 8 players regularly contribute and rosters are 13 players.  The good players will stay if you're winning, and the bad ones probably were never going to contribute.

Of course fit matters some as well.  You don't want kids who are going to throw hands at every practice.  But we don't need to pass up on talent just to get some best friends together.

Since 1978, only 3 teams have won a national championship without a McDonald's All American (Maryland in 2002, UCONN in 2014, and Baylor in 2021).  In general, talent wins.  We certainly need more than what we have, and our incoming recruits will need to significantly outperform expectations if they're going to be key cogs in teams that are as successful as we hope.

2014 UConn is one of the great outliers in NCAA history.  Still not sure how they won a title that year.

'02 Maryland and '21 Baylor may not have had Burger Boys but they had NBA players. 

Wisconsin is the model of "develop players and win".  They don't sniff a title without two NBA first round draft picks

[JWags85]

2014 UConn is one of the great outliers in NCAA history.  Still not sure how they won a title that year.

UCONN technically would have had a MCD AA.  DeAndre Daniels was the #10 recruit in his class.  He took a prep year at IMG so that made him ineligible.

Boatright was Illinois Mr. BB with Randle.  Napier was Mr. BB in Massachusetts.  Fancy was Mr. BB in NY.

There was a ton of talent, they just underperformed cause Ollie stinks as a coach.  But then they randomly caught fire somehow.  They couldn't have had a harder path.

[GoldenEagles03]

Sean Jones talent is elite. Senior Mixtape ⬇️

https://youtu.be/pbUXsVTeeV8

[MU82]

Sean Jones talent is elite. Senior Mixtape ⬇️

https://youtu.be/pbUXsVTeeV8

Thanks for posting. All mixtapes look great, but I'm pretty excited about this one.

Outstanding athlete. Seems to have a very good feel on when to drive or pull up to shoot. Finishes well through contact. Not many passes on that tape, so that part of his game is unknown. Lotta swagger, and I like that. Serious ups - Artie Green(ish) with handles and a J. (He does travel nearly every time he loads up to dunk but the refs don't want to call it!)

[Silkk the Shaka]

Thanks for posting. All mixtapes look great, but I'm pretty excited about this one.

Outstanding athlete. Seems to have a very good feel on when to drive or pull up to shoot. Finishes well through contact. Not many passes on that tape, so that part of his game is unknown. Lotta swagger, and I like that. Serious ups - Artie Green(ish) with handles and a J. (He does travel nearly every time he loads up to dunk but the refs don't want to call it!)

I love how he plays with knees bent in almost a cornerback crouch at all times. Like a coiled spring on both ends of the court. Great balance, great change of pace. Hope he's here for 4 years I think he'll be a great upperclassman.

[GoldenEagles03]

I love how he plays with knees bent in almost a cornerback crouch at all times. Like a coiled spring on both ends of the court. Great balance, great change of pace. Hope he's here for 4 years I think he'll be a great upperclassman.

He has the body of a pass catching 3rd down running back.

His body is as college ready as it can be for his size.  His skills are high and he likes to defend and is always moving.

He will be a great player.

[MU82]

What I'd like to know from those who have actually seen him play is if he is a good passer, because that mixtape sure as heck didn't showcase that skill.

I love a score-first PG as long as 1) he's an excellent scorer; and 2) he's a capable passer.

[JakeBarnes]

What I'd like to know from those who have actually seen him play is if he is a good passer, because that mixtape sure as heck didn't showcase that skill.

I love a score-first PG as long as 1) he's an excellent scorer; and 2) he's a capable passer.

See here: https://youtu.be/Ex3VE5YZEwI?t=120

In this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBJNfdiGUCE it definitely feels like he keeps his head up and can look off defenders with the passing threat. really good awareness.

[rgoode57]

It's great to talk about building the right culture, and I am 100% for that. But, truth is, culture does not win games. This season, we did not have a single player on the team, other than Lewis and Morsell, who could have played any significant minutes at Villanova, Providence, UConn, etc. The talent gap between us and top tier teams was HUGE. Culture won't fix that, but talent will. Culture is very important, but you have to have the players.

[BCHoopster]

All those teams listed have better players because they are older and experienced.  Keep the group together and add a few pieces every year.  Gillespie has been in school as long as Davidson!