Recruiting as of 5/15/25

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So Bo had 5 sub-100 players named to All-American teams. 5 more sub-100 players named to All-Big 10 teams. Not to mention many of his top-100 players (Butch, Leuer, Dekker, Nankivil) named to all-league teams as well.

Find me another recruiter in a high major league that found 10 all-league players outside the top-100, including 5 All-Americans and a NPOY. I don't think that person exists in the last 20 years. Bo wasn't just a great coach or developer, he was a great recruiter because he found those guys in a way no other high major coach could. Yes, he had misses, everyone does, but his high level hit rate outside the top-100 was unparalleled.

How did those All-Americans and NPOY do in the NBA?

I don't think anyone is arguing your point. What we're saying is that it wasn't that they were underranked, it's that Bo was a great teacher of his system and his system could make lesser players into All-American level producers.

[Pakuni]

The amazingly named Class of '23 forward Dallas Bear was on campus today for an unofficial.

https://twitter.com/dallas__bear/status/1428439184101060608

[dgies9156]

A successful college team has three ingredients: Talent, Coaching and Desire.

The first two are obvious. When we were good, we had some of the best talent available and outstanding coaching. But even those two factors only take you so far.

The desire part is the key. Great players don't always mean great outcomes. Bernard Toone is a great example. He was one of the most talented players Coach McGuire had while he coached our Warriors. But Toone didn't fit the system very well and didn't always have the desire to step up and be "the" guy. In another era, Ole Loony probably would have transferred to another school.

Ditto for Lloyd Moore or Tony Reeder, to name two other highly recruited players who ended up with less than perfect desire.

Bo Ryan, to his everlasting credit, did not do one-and-dones. He managed to find guys with less than top tier talent and mold them into a team. Wisconsin's game plan wasn't for everybody. But if you're willing to work, do what your role requires and have better than average talent, Bo was going to take you far. I'm hoping that's Shaka because if it is, our heritage and he as a coach will get us the talent.

[JWags85]

How did those All-Americans and NPOY do in the NBA?

I don't think anyone is arguing your point. What we're saying is that it wasn't that they were underranked, it's that Bo was a great teacher of his system and his system could make lesser players into All-American level producers.

BINGO

[muwarrior69]

i don't disagree with this in totality, and i know a system and culture goes beyond the just offense you run, but he did go away from the swing when they had their FF success in the tourney.  i thought buzz always had "dogs" to coin a bobby portis/pj tucker theme, but he would adjust how he used them.  athleticism, length, well-conditioned, fast tempo, etc... is what i see shaka trying to do. 

i know this.  it won't be worse than wojo and there seems like some real upside.

Things can always be worse, but the hole Wojo dug for the program is so deep the only way out is up.

[brewcity77]

How did those All-Americans and NPOY do in the NBA?

Uhh...who cares? It's completely irrelevant. This is a college recruiting discussion.

I don't think anyone is arguing your point. What we're saying is that it wasn't that they were underranked, it's that Bo was a great teacher of his system and his system could make lesser players into All-American level producers.

I don't think just any random big could've done what Frank Kaminsky or Ethan Happ did. I don't think Jordan Taylor or Alando Tucker were JAGs, or every sub-100 guy Bo landed would've done the same.

Like I said, find me the comp of someone who so consistently found All-Americans or high major stars in the sub-100 ranks and maybe there's a point. Otherwise, it's not just system or development, it's recruiting

[Pakuni]

Uhh...who cares? It's completely irrelevant. This is a college recruiting discussion.

It belies the notion that Bo's recruiting acumen led him to find undervalued talent. Instead, it supports the argument that Bo's system maximized the limited abilities of the kids he landed. Put those same kids in a position where talent trumps all, aka the NBA, and they flounder.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It belies the notion that Bo's recruiting acumen led him to find undervalued talent. Instead, it supports the argument that Bo's system maximized the limited abilities of the kids he landed. Put those same kids in a position where talent trumps all, aka the NBA, and they flounder.

And their lengths of stay

[Uncle Rico]

It belies the notion that Bo's recruiting acumen led him to find undervalued talent. Instead, it supports the argument that Bo's system maximized the limited abilities of the kids he landed. Put those same kids in a position where talent trumps all, aka the NBA, and they flounder.

Most importantly, Bo's and Gard's players are clean-cut kids

[MU82]

Most importantly, Bo's and Gard's players are clean-cut kids

'Natch!

[dw3dw3dw3]

The amazingly named Class of '23 forward Dallas Bear was on campus today for an unofficial.

https://twitter.com/dallas__bear/status/1428439184101060608

His jumper and game from the 45 seconds of highlights I watched are exactly like Henry.

[Newsdreams]

His jumper and game from the 45 seconds of highlights I watched are exactly like Henry.

We don't want him if that is the case.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

We don't want him if that is the case.

17 and 10 and All-Big East as a Freshman? Yeah, pass.

[brewcity77]

It belies the notion that Bo's recruiting acumen led him to find undervalued talent. Instead, it supports the argument that Bo's system maximized the limited abilities of the kids he landed. Put those same kids in a position where talent trumps all, aka the NBA, and they flounder.

Plenty of great college players don't end up great pros. Scottie Reynolds, Jimmer Fredette, Russ Smith, Brice Johnson, Tyler Ulis, Adam Morrison, Shabazz Napier, Thomas Robinson, the list goes on and on. Were those all just system guys?

It's easy for Marquette fans to decry Bo's recruiting because it didn't make headlines, but no one else managed to luck their way into 5 sub-100 All-Americans and one a NPOY in the last 20 years. Once might be luck, twice might be coincidence, but 5 times, especially with an equal number of all-conference players from the sub-100 ranks, that's not luck, that's a remarkable skill.

[Pakuni]

Plenty of great college players don't end up great pros. Scottie Reynolds, Jimmer Fredette, Russ Smith, Brice Johnson, Tyler Ulis, Adam Morrison, Shabazz Napier, Thomas Robinson, the list goes on and on. Were those all just system guys?

Reynolds - Nova
Jimmer - BYU
Russ Smith - Louisville
Brice Johnson - UNC
Tyler Ulis - Kentucky
Adam Morrison - Gonzaga
Shabazz Napier - UConn
Thomas Robinson - Kansas

Do you see why your argument fails here? Eight players. Eight different schools. Eight different systems. All of which (with the exception of BYU) have produced several quality NBA players.
This is not at all comparable to Bo's record, which is to produce many good college players, very few of which have become quality pros.

It's easy for Marquette fans to decry Bo's recruiting because it didn't make headlines, but no one else managed to luck their way into 5 sub-100 All-Americans and one a NPOY in the last 20 years. Once might be luck, twice might be coincidence, but 5 times, especially with an equal number of all-conference players from the sub-100 ranks, that's not luck, that's a remarkable skill.

No one is decrying Bo's recruiting because it didn't make headlines. We're pointing out the obvious - that he brought  so-so talent into a system that maximized those players' effectiveness at the college level, but didn't change the fact that they were so-so talents.
If, as you seem to be insisting, Bo was uncovering all these hidden/overlooked gems, why did success end for most of those top players once they left Wisconsin? Of course not every good college player will be a good pro, but in Bo's case, barely any of his good college players became good pros. Why?   
I think it's because they weren't as talented as Bo's system made them seem. And that's a credit to him, by the way.

[Viper]

We don't want him if that is the case.

nba 1st round pick.

[MU82]

So ... Marquette recruiting ... who's the next guy Shaka has a legit chance to land?

[brewcity77]

Do you see why your argument fails here? Eight players. Eight different schools. Eight different systems. All of which (with the exception of BYU) have produced several quality NBA players.

I disagree. It shows that while others could do it, they couldn't with the consistency Bo did. His recruiting was overlooked because he didn't have the rankings, but rankings don't matter when you have the results.

At Marquette, we celebrate the Davante Gardner, Sacar Anim types who outshine their rankings. We don't diminish their talent because they were great college players that never made an NBA mark. Bo did the same, just with more regularity.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Uhh...who cares? It's completely irrelevant. This is a college recruiting discussion.

Because the debate we were having is whether Bo had an eye for talent that no other coach did...or if Bo had an ability and a system to coach up less talented players to be high level producers. If it was that he had an eye for talent, you would expect more of his top players to be successful beyond Wisconsin. They weren't.

I don't think just any random big could've done what Frank Kaminsky or Ethan Happ did. I don't think Jordan Taylor or Alando Tucker were JAGs, or every sub-100 guy Bo landed would've done the same.

No, that's not logical. Having a system doesn't mean every player is going to do equally well. Those other sub-100 guys Bo landed...may have just been bad players and even he couldn't coach them up. The more relevant question is, would Kaminsky, Happ, Taylor, etc been as successful if they went anywhere besides Wisconsin? I think the answer is no.

Like I said, find me the comp of someone who so consistently found All-Americans or high major stars in the sub-100 ranks and maybe there's a point. Otherwise, it's not just system or development, it's recruiting

Of course recruiting is a part of it. The goal of recruiting is to secure players that you can with and Bo did that in spades. But it wasn't because he had an eye that no one else did, it was because he knew what players would fit in his system and he knew how to teach that system. Those same players go anywhere else, they wouldn't have had as good of college careers. You don't find too many former Badgers that are successful after leaving Wisconsin.

It's easy for Marquette fans to decry Bo's recruiting because it didn't make headlines, but no one else managed to luck their way into 5 sub-100 All-Americans and one a NPOY in the last 20 years. Once might be luck, twice might be coincidence, but 5 times, especially with an equal number of all-conference players from the sub-100 ranks, that's not luck, that's a remarkable skill.

Yes, remarkable skill...of identifying guys who fit his system and teaching them that system.

I disagree. It shows that while others could do it, they couldn't with the consistency Bo did. His recruiting was overlooked because he didn't have the rankings, but rankings don't matter when you have the results.

Sure, but results have many factors, not just recruiting talent. There's the initial talent of the players you recruit, how you develop that talent, and how you coach that talent. All of that factors into the results on the court, you can't just say because Bo had results that means he was good at recruiting. At that point you might as well just say Bo had results that means he was a good basketball coach...which everyone would agree with.

No one is saying that Bo gets zero credit for the initial talent of his players, they're just acknowledging how good Bo was at developing and coaching his players.

[Ben Golds Five]

Who gives a unnatural carnal knowledge about the Vadgers and their recruiting efforts?  Take that crap to a different thread. So ... Marquette recruiting ... who's the next guy Shaka has a legit chance to land?

[Newsdreams]

nba 1st round pick.

Thought I didn't need teal. There has been so many takes as how it was a mistake recruiting and getting Henry...

[The Sultan]

I disagree. It shows that while others could do it, they couldn't with the consistency Bo did. His recruiting was overlooked because he didn't have the rankings, but rankings don't matter when you have the results.

At Marquette, we celebrate the Davante Gardner, Sacar Anim types who outshine their rankings. We don't diminish their talent because they were great college players that never made an NBA mark. Bo did the same, just with more regularity.

Would Frank Kaminsky a et. al. have developed as they did had they went elsewhere?  Would Frank have become they NPOY had he gone to Northern Illinois?  Doubtful.

Bo Ryan found teachable players who fit his system and coached them up. He did it at Platteville for years. He wasn't some masterful recruiter. In fact, I think he actually loved going up against teams filled with top recruits with his underrated group. IMO it was a badge of honor for him.

[GOO]

I sure hope that there is some MU recruiting news soon. One would think that we are on a UW recruiting site this week.

[WarriorPride68]

you know its the dog days of summer when we are doing in-depth breakdowns of the last 20 years of Wisconsin Badgers recruiting

[JTJ3]

So ... Marquette recruiting ... who's the next guy Shaka has a legit chance to land?

Chase Ross and Malik Dia both OV'ing over the next couple weeks.  Both fit well into the "athletic, high energy" program Shaka has consistently talked about.