Cavs’ Kyrie Irving to Miss Rest of NBA Finals for Knee Surgery

[brandx]

Very true.  However, the vast majority of those other players are not 6'9 260 nor predicate their penetration game on putting their head down and bulldozing through smaller players.

Every player uses what they can to their advantage. At least all of the great ones. All players initiate contact because they know it will draw fouls.

How is what Lebron does any different that Curry drawing a foul by diving into a defender who is jumping straight up into the air? Or Bird using his elbows to get rebounding position? Or Iverson carrying the ball on his crossover? Or Jordan traveling as he goes to the hoop? Or Wilt overpowering smaller defenders?

It has always been done.

[StillAWarrior]

(And Jordan had a pretty well crafted image himself by the way.)

I think we've known what an SOB Jordan was for so long, it's easy to forget that we didn't always know.

That said...I still think Jordan is the GOAT.  The fact that I think that Lebron is in the top five is not an insult to Jordan.

[JWags85]

Every player uses what they can to their advantage. At least all of the great ones. All players initiate contact because they know it will draw fouls.

How is what Lebron does any different that Curry drawing a foul by diving into a defender who is jumping straight up into the air? Or Bird using his elbows to get rebounding position? Or Iverson carrying the ball on his crossover? Or Jordan traveling as he goes to the hoop? Or Wilt overpowering smaller defenders?

It has always been done.

Because the absurdity of it.  If Wilt overpowered a guy 75% of his size and then flailed when contact was made, it would be similar.  Its not how Lebron initiates contact, its the manner of doing so and his subsequent reactions defy logical physics.  The only person who flops like Lebron is Harden and the size/game differential is substantial.  The absurdity of it is he doesn't have to.  He's that good, that strong, so fast that he can draw those same fouls without the embellishment of an Italian soccer player.

Much like everything aside from stating that he's an otherworldly talent, this will be a contention between Lebron fans and people who think that he's a tremendous player but an annoying, soft, drama queen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

They also were a completely new team with a bunch of new high profile pieces learning to play together.  Same thing happened with the early days of the Lebron Heat teams.  And Lebron took off 2 weeks mid season.

As for the rest, I'm not even going to go into it.  Everyone who has crafted a "Lebron the victim" narrative the last week is high.  You can feel for Cleveland fans, but feeling for a man who already has 2 rings and only came home cause he saw a window of opportunity and still makes everything about himself over his team, no matter what his fluffy media manipulation says, give me a break.  I had 3 people tell me after Game 2 that they are rooting for the Cavs after seeing Lebron not get any calls.  Those people aren't worthy of discussing sports with.

The amount of crap that guy got before he won a title was ridiculous.  He has taken more shots than just about any athlete I can ever remember....yes yes "the decision".  Bulls fans and Laker fans are the worst when it comes to him...the absolute worst.  My opinion.    I'd love to hear justification about the other comments in your post...he could have gone anywhere, could have stayed, he didn't.  What I saw in the highlights toward the end of the game, BRUTAL officiating.  That being said, stars get away with a ton of stuff...The Jordan Rules

[GGGG]

Because the absurdity of it.  If Wilt overpowered a guy 75% of his size and then flailed when contact was made, it would be similar.  Its not how Lebron initiates contact, its the manner of doing so and his subsequent reactions defy logical physics.  The only person who flops like Lebron is Harden and the size/game differential is substantial.  The absurdity of it is he doesn't have to.  He's that good, that strong, so fast that he can draw those same fouls without the embellishment of an Italian soccer player.

Really this is bordering on silly.  Again, blame the refs.

Much like everything aside from stating that he's an otherworldly talent, this will be a contention between Lebron fans and people who think that he's a tremendous player but an annoying, soft, drama queen.

He may be annoying.  He may be a drama queen.

He is hardly soft. 

[brandx]

That being said, stars get away with a ton of stuff...The Jordan Rules

The Jordan Rules were the exact opposite of a star getting away with anything.

[Galway Eagle]

The Jordan Rules were the exact opposite of a star getting away with anything.

Seriously Jordan Rules refer to Lambiere and Aguirre and Thomas and whomever else on that team just beat the heck out of Jordan to stop him.

[JWags85]

Really this is bordering on silly.  Again, blame the refs.

Do you blame the refs when Bo Ryan or Coach K ride and berate them for a game or a season and suddenly spurious calls go their way?  Cause its the same thing with a star player.  Not saying the refs are blameless, but neither is Lebron's incessant outrage that would get 90% of players T'd up.  I blame the NBA and their treatment of him far more than I blame the refs.

And I hated when Wade did it.  I hate when other players do it.  Its just so noticeable with Lebron because of his absolute freak athlete status.

He may be annoying.  He may be a drama queen.

He is hardly soft. 

See everything Wade wrote about his behavior with injuries.  Of course he's tough, all professional athletes are.  However, playing up injuries, making ridiculous comments in the media about them, constantly needing to be liked in the media, making a fiasco out of not wearing your headband because you are all about the team, all of that is soft.

[tower912]

Seriously Jordan Rules refer to Lambiere and Aguirre and Thomas and whomever else on that team just beat the heck out of Jordan to stop him.

It meant no easy lay ups.   It meant that they doubled Jordan hard as soon as possible and then completely collapsed on him when he drove, meaning he got hit.   Anything to force the ball out of his hands and let anybody on the Bulls beat you.  The Pistons went a legit 8-9 deep with no drop off, had physical position defenders in Laimbeer, Mahorn, and Edwards, agile bigs in Salley and Rodman, and a dynamite on-ball defender in Dumars.   They recognized how good Jordan was and realized the only way to beat the Bulls was to pound on Jordan, limit his damage, and make anybody else make the play.    I loved those teams.

When Jordan had a supporting cast he trusted and they started making plays, the Bulls beat the Pistons.   

[wadesworld]

Do you blame the refs when Bo Ryan or Coach K ride and berate them for a game or a season and suddenly spurious calls go their way?  Cause its the same thing with a star player.  Not saying the refs are blameless, but neither is Lebron's incessant outrage that would get 90% of players T'd up.  I blame the NBA and their treatment of him far more than I blame the refs.

And I hated when Wade did it.  I hate when other players do it.  Its just so noticeable with Lebron because of his absolute freak athlete status.

See everything Wade wrote about his behavior with injuries.  Of course he's tough, all professional athletes are.  However, playing up injuries, making ridiculous comments in the media about them, constantly needing to be liked in the media, making a fiasco out of not wearing your headband because you are all about the team, all of that is soft.

Haha yeah that stuff is hilarious.  You can't wear a headband because it makes you seem not part of the team.  Yeah, really good stuff LeBron.  Just like when he stopped wearing #23 to "honor" Michael Jordan, then had a vote as to what number he should wear and whether he should go back to his powder toss before games.  Here's an idea, make up your own mind instead of trying to win a popularity contest.

[GGGG]

Really you two sound like a couple middle school girls with these criticisms.  I get it. He's annoying. Nothing you are saying makes him "soft," unless you are redefining the word.

[wadesworld]

Really you two sound like a couple middle school girls with these criticisms.  I get it. He's annoying. Nothing you are saying makes him "soft," unless you are redefining the word.

And we get it. You don't have a problem with these things. Haha

Never said he was soft. He certainly is a sellout though.

[jesmu84]

It meant no easy lay ups.   It meant that they doubled Jordan hard as soon as possible and then completely collapsed on him when he drove, meaning he got hit.   Anything to force the ball out of his hands and let anybody on the Bulls beat you.  The Pistons went a legit 8-9 deep with no drop off, had physical position defenders in Laimbeer, Mahorn, and Edwards, agile bigs in Salley and Rodman, and a dynamite on-ball defender in Dumars.   They recognized how good Jordan was and realized the only way to beat the Bulls was to pound on Jordan, limit his damage, and make anybody else make the play.    I loved those teams.

When Jordan had a supporting cast he trusted and they started making plays, the Bulls beat the Pistons.   

Any different from Lebron on the Cavs 1st time being beat by the Celtics or whomever, then winning when he got Wade and Bosh?

[GGGG]

And we get it. You don't have a problem with these things. Haha

Never said he was soft. He certainly is a sellout though.

A sell out?  No idea what that means in this context...

I think this kind of stuff is what chicos is talking about.

[jesmu84]

As I'm watching tonight, I have a question...

If Lebron taking this Cavs team (who everyone is saying is terrible) to the finals and possibly winning it... Does the same apply for Curry leading the Warriors? Has his supporting cast really demonstrated much?

[wadesworld]

A sell out?  No idea what that means in this context...

I think this kind of stuff is what chicos is talking about.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSLw8DLm20

Any other professional athlete who signs as a free agent has an ESPN Bottom Line ticker to announce it. LeBron? He has an hour long feature without having discussed it with his current team. "Gimme those eyes and ears people! The suspense!"

How about "not 4, not 5, not 6!" Well, nope, he was right. Wade and Bosh got old before that could happen, so it was time to find some young talent to jo...err, I mean, it was time to come home and try to win a title for my city! The city I've openly admitted to growing up hating **cough**

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11755763/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-let-fans-decide-bring-pregame-chalk-toss-back

Hey fans, give me your eyes and ears, I want you to decide my pregame ritual! Has anybody ever done something like this? Not that I can think of.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25174032/heres-why-lebron-james-got-rid-of-the-headband-this-season

He wants to "look like his teammates." Outstanding. He's all in for his team now boys! Let's all get matching shoes and socks too!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4650907

What number is LeBron wearing again? Oh yeah, he had a fan vote to decide. Haha. LeBron just knew it was a way to get more eyes on him. "What an awesome guy and an awesome idea! LeBron you're the best!" Couple years later and LeBron is wearing the number he asked everyone to give up "out of respect to MJ." Sellout.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2134184-lebron-james-asks-fans-on-instagram-what-no-he-should-wear-with-cavaliers

You just said you got it. Yet you keep trying to convince people otherwise. Which is it? Do you get it or do you want to continue to try to debate it? It's an opinion. Neither is right. It's a matter of preference. I don't like the guy and I don't like that he sells himself out. Your "no idea what that means?" And "is that a thing?" isn't changing that. You don't have a problem with him. Cool. That's great.

Go Warriors.

[brandx]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSLw8DLm20

Any other professional athlete who signs as a free agent has an ESPN Bottom Line ticker to announce it. LeBron? He has an hour long feature without having discussed it with his current team. "Gimme those eyes and ears people! The suspense!"

How about "not 4, not 5, not 6!" Well, nope, he was right. Wade and Bosh got old before that could happen, so it was time to find some young talent to jo...err, I mean, it was time to come home and try to win a title for my city! The city I've openly admitted to growing up hating **cough**

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11755763/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-let-fans-decide-bring-pregame-chalk-toss-back

Hey fans, give me your eyes and ears, I want you to decide my pregame ritual! Has anybody ever done something like this? Not that I can think of.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25174032/heres-why-lebron-james-got-rid-of-the-headband-this-season

He wants to "look like his teammates." Outstanding. He's all in for his team now boys! Let's all get matching shoes and socks too!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4650907

What number is LeBron wearing again? Oh yeah, he had a fan vote to decide. Haha. LeBron just knew it was a way to get more eyes on him. "What an awesome guy and an awesome idea! LeBron you're the best!" Couple years later and LeBron is wearing the number he asked everyone to give up "out of respect to MJ." Sellout.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2134184-lebron-james-asks-fans-on-instagram-what-no-he-should-wear-with-cavaliers

You just said you got it. Yet you keep trying to convince people otherwise. Which is it? Do you get it or do you want to continue to try to debate it? It's an opinion. Neither is right. It's a matter of preference. I don't like the guy and I don't like that he sells himself out. Your "no idea what that means?" And "is that a thing?" isn't changing that. You don't have a problem with him. Cool. That's great.

Go Warriors.

But what has he done to you to deserve such intense hatred?

[wadesworld]

But what has he done to you to deserve such intense hatred?

Don't think I'd say I intently hate anyone. Pretty simply I just don't like him. There are hundreds of athletes that are far more likeable to me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As I'm watching tonight, I have a question...

If Lebron taking this Cavs team (who everyone is saying is terrible) to the finals and possibly winning it... Does the same apply for Curry leading the Warriors? Has his supporting cast really demonstrated much?

His supporting cast is still capable of much better than the Cavs cast is.  Curry needs to get them going, James is willing his guys.

Actually caught the last quarter tonight.  This superior NBA refereeing has been AWOL as far as I can tell. 

[MU82]

One thing nobody mentioned when talking about that horrible missed foul call in Game 2 ... LeBron and the Cavs won, anyway.

Great players usually find a way.

The Cavs almost choked away Game 3. Almost. The greatest player in the world found a way to win.

But yes, "The Decision" was stupid 5 years. So that means what about LeBron today?

[ChicosBailBonds]

One thing nobody mentioned when talking about that horrible missed foul call in Game 2 ... LeBron and the Cavs won, anyway.

Great players usually find a way.

The Cavs almost choked away Game 3. Almost. The greatest player in the world found a way to win.

But yes, "The Decision" was stupid 5 years. So that means what about LeBron today?

They are running on fumes, that's what it looked like to me.  Going to be tough for them to do this, but he's earning a ton of respect from many a hater.

[wadesworld]

Not sure why people continue to try to change someone's opinion. Never said anything about him being a bad basketball player. I was raised to treat everyone with respect and as an equal. Some people weren't. LeBron clearly was not. Which is fine. I'm not one to judge. Not my job. But whether it's my CFO or a homeless guy on the street I try my hardest to treat either and everyone in between with respect and to not act above or below either. Sometimes I fail at it, but I certainly don't demand people call me "King," don't allow people to look me in the eye, and don't allow people to talk to me unless I talk to them. This is not 5 years ago. This is today. No fumes necessary. Some people don't see the problem with that. Cool. You're not going to change my opinion that he's a complete douche though. And some people can look beyond the personality and only care about the on court results. Great. Good for you. I can to an extent too. But it's much easier to cheer for a humble, respectful person for me. Just one man's preference. Glad there are differences in opinion out there.

[jesmu84]

His supporting cast is still capable of much better than the Cavs cast is.  Curry needs to get them going, James is willing his guys.

Actually caught the last quarter tonight.  This superior NBA refereeing has been AWOL as far as I can tell. 

How are you defining capable? Career stats? Accolades/awards?

[ChicosBailBonds]

How are you defining capable? Career stats? Accolades/awards?

What they have done consistently over a long period of time this year against top level competition.  The west has been regarded as the better conference by a long shot and they have performed at a high level all season long.

[reinko]

Not sure why people continue to try to change someone's opinion. Never said anything about him being a bad basketball player. I was raised to treat everyone with respect and as an equal. Some people weren't. LeBron clearly was not. Which is fine. I'm not one to judge. Not my job. But whether it's my CFO or a homeless guy on the street I try my hardest to treat either and everyone in between with respect and to not act above or below either. Sometimes I fail at it, but I certainly don't demand people call me "King," don't allow people to look me in the eye, and don't allow people to talk to me unless I talk to them. This is not 5 years ago. This is today. No fumes necessary. Some people don't see the problem with that. Cool. You're not going to change my opinion that he's a complete douche though. And some people can look beyond the personality and only care about the on court results. Great. Good for you. I can to an extent too. But it's much easier to cheer for a humble, respectful person for me. Just one man's preference. Glad there are differences in opinion out there.

Always the classiest of moves, to knock someone's upbringing, but hey you ain't judging them right?   Wades and JWags you just all seem to have an endless supply of SIZZLING HOT TAKES!  HEADBANDS, INSTAGRAM, SNEAKERS, JERSEY NUMBERS...SO SO HOT! WHAT ABOUT LEBRON'S GOING TO HIS KID'S BASKETBALL GAME!  HIS SAMSUNG COMMERCIALS!  DOES HE REALLY DRIVE A KIA?

As for whole MJ piece, can you fathom if James "quit" basketball after this season, forced himself onto a AA minor baseball team, made a mockery of those around him, came back to basketball, play more, quit again, come back with another team...the internet would literally explode.

Go Cleveland, if anything to shut you guys up.