Cavs’ Kyrie Irving to Miss Rest of NBA Finals for Knee Surgery

[GGGG]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSLw8DLm20

Any other professional athlete who signs as a free agent has an ESPN Bottom Line ticker to announce it. LeBron? He has an hour long feature without having discussed it with his current team. "Gimme those eyes and ears people! The suspense!"

How about "not 4, not 5, not 6!" Well, nope, he was right. Wade and Bosh got old before that could happen, so it was time to find some young talent to jo...err, I mean, it was time to come home and try to win a title for my city! The city I've openly admitted to growing up hating **cough**

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11755763/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-let-fans-decide-bring-pregame-chalk-toss-back

Hey fans, give me your eyes and ears, I want you to decide my pregame ritual! Has anybody ever done something like this? Not that I can think of.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25174032/heres-why-lebron-james-got-rid-of-the-headband-this-season

He wants to "look like his teammates." Outstanding. He's all in for his team now boys! Let's all get matching shoes and socks too!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4650907

What number is LeBron wearing again? Oh yeah, he had a fan vote to decide. Haha. LeBron just knew it was a way to get more eyes on him. "What an awesome guy and an awesome idea! LeBron you're the best!" Couple years later and LeBron is wearing the number he asked everyone to give up "out of respect to MJ." Sellout.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2134184-lebron-james-asks-fans-on-instagram-what-no-he-should-wear-with-cavaliers

Yes.  He has made mistakes, apologized for some, and is annoying.  How does that make him a "sell-out?"

You just said you got it. Yet you keep trying to convince people otherwise. Which is it? Do you get it or do you want to continue to try to debate it? It's an opinion. Neither is right. It's a matter of preference. I don't like the guy and I don't like that he sells himself out. Your "no idea what that means?" And "is that a thing?" isn't changing that. You don't have a problem with him. Cool. That's great.

It's a message board.  I can respond if I want.  And if people are going to use adjectives to describe him like "soft" or a "sell-out," I am going to ask on which they base their opinion.

[wadesworld]

Always the classiest of moves, to knock someone's upbringing, but hey you ain't judging them right?   Wades and JWags you just all seem to have an endless supply of SIZZLING HOT TAKES!  HEADBANDS, INSTAGRAM, SNEAKERS, JERSEY NUMBERS...SO SO HOT! WHAT ABOUT LEBRON'S GOING TO HIS KID'S BASKETBALL GAME!  HIS SAMSUNG COMMERCIALS!  DOES HE REALLY DRIVE A KIA?

As for whole MJ piece, can you fathom if James "quit" basketball after this season, forced himself onto a AA minor baseball team, made a mockery of those around him, came back to basketball, play more, quit again, come back with another team...the internet would literally explode.

Go Cleveland, if anything to shut you guys up.

Not sure where you get this idea of "knocking someone's upbringing."  I was raised differently than him.  In fact, I specifically said it's not a bad thing.  It's different than how I was raised.  But hey, keep reaching.

Here's an idea, don't like reading it then...don't read it!  Imagine that.  Better yet, hit the ignore button!  Doesn't take a Cavs win to "shut you guys up."  A simple click of a button.  Or ignoring a topic that you know what it's going to look like and you know is going to get you worked up on your Wednesday morning.

And to be quite honest, a Cavs title won't do anything to change my mind or "shut me up."  LeBron could average 80, 50, 30, 15 steals, and 10 blocks for the next 20 years and win 20 straight titles and I would never root for him a day in my life.  Has nothing to do with what's going on on the court.  Don't know how you can possibly confuse that, but okay.

Thanks for contributing.

[wadesworld]

Yes.  He has made mistakes, apologized for some, and is annoying.  How does that make him a "sell-out?"


It's a message board.  I can respond if I want.  And if people are going to use adjectives to describe him like "soft" or a "sell-out," I am going to ask on which they base their opinion.

Right, so you don't get it then, if you have to ask more questions.  I guess asking all players in basketball to stop wearing number 23 out of respect for MJ and then wearing 23 himself isn't selling out.  What do I know?

[GGGG]

Always the classiest of moves, to knock someone's upbringing, but hey you ain't judging them right?   Wades and JWags you just all seem to have an endless supply of SIZZLING HOT TAKES!  HEADBANDS, INSTAGRAM, SNEAKERS, JERSEY NUMBERS...SO SO HOT! WHAT ABOUT LEBRON'S GOING TO HIS KID'S BASKETBALL GAME!  HIS SAMSUNG COMMERCIALS!  DOES HE REALLY DRIVE A KIA?

As for whole MJ piece, can you fathom if James "quit" basketball after this season, forced himself onto a AA minor baseball team, made a mockery of those around him, came back to basketball, play more, quit again, come back with another team...the internet would literally explode.

Go Cleveland, if anything to shut you guys up.

Yeah this is what I don't get.  What Lebron does is a more intense version of what stars have done for years.  Even though I don't like the Lebron / Jordan comparisons, Jordan was hardly humble.  He banged on refs all the time.  A complete different personality when doing commercials and in the locker room.  Hardly well liked within the Bulls organization as a person.

Maybe with the passage of time people have forgotten this, or maybe they simply aren't old enough to remember.

[GGGG]

Right, so you don't get it then, if you have to ask more questions.  I guess asking all players in basketball to stop wearing number 23 out of respect for MJ and then wearing 23 himself isn't selling out.  What do I know?

OK, I guess.  Maybe I just don't pay attention to this stuff so it doesn't really bother me. 

[RushmoreAcademy]

I root against Lebron.   He is annoying.  The Decision annoyed me.  I know it was a long time ago.  I know he's not some kind of criminal, and I don't wish bad upon him as a person, but I like to root against him.  
Why do people get so mad when others root against him?  When there's no Lebron I'll root against somebody else.  It makes the games fun to watch.  Seems pretty normal.

[wadesworld]

Yeah this is what I don't get.  What Lebron does is a more intense version of what stars have done for years.  Even though I don't like the Lebron / Jordan comparisons, Jordan was hardly humble.  He banged on refs all the time.  A complete different personality when doing commercials and in the locker room.  Hardly well liked within the Bulls organization as a person.

Maybe with the passage of time people have forgotten this, or maybe they simply aren't old enough to remember.

No doubt.  I never liked Jordan either, but I was also pretty young when he was in his prime, so I didn't really know anything other than him dominating the Bucks on the court.  And I don't really think you can compare LeBron and MJ either.  LeBron plays more like Magic, Kobe plays more like MJ.  I was too young to really know how good MJ really was and don't remember how dominant (or not dominant) MJ was.  I'm not sure I remember ever seeing Magic play.  So I can't really compare the players on the court.  I just know I don't like MJ, Kobe, or LeBron, but I do like Magic, but that is just all based on his reputation because, again, I wasn't really old enough to form my own opinion on him when he was playing.

OK, I guess.  Maybe I just don't pay attention to this stuff so it doesn't really bother me. 

Fair enough.  I'm not a fan of it.

I root against Lebron.   He is annoying.  The Decision annoyed me.  I know it was a long time ago.  I know he's not some kind of criminal, and I don't wish bad upon him as a person, but I like to root against him.   
Why do people get so mad when others root against him?  When there's no Lebron I'll root against somebody else.  It makes the games fun to watch.  Seems pretty normal.

Bingo.  Nailed it.

[GGGG]

I root against Lebron.   He is annoying.  The Decision annoyed me.  I know it was a long time ago.  I know he's not some kind of criminal, and I don't wish bad upon him as a person, but I like to root against him.  
Why do people get so mad when others root against him?  When there's no Lebron I'll root against somebody else.  It makes the games fun to watch.  Seems pretty normal.

I am not mad.  And I get that people root against him and that's fine.  I can understand why people find him annoying.

But when I see criticisms like "he leans into defenders to get calls," it starts bordering on silly.  Every player now, and since I have been watching NBA basketball, has done this.  And he is hardly perfection on the court.  He isn't the best shooter.  And oftentimes when he has the ball in his hands, the offense stagnates.  

[GGGG]

No doubt.  I never liked Jordan either, but I was also pretty young when he was in his prime, so I didn't really know anything other than him dominating the Bucks on the court.  And I don't really think you can compare LeBron and MJ either.  LeBron plays more like Magic, Kobe plays more like MJ.  I was too young to really know how good MJ really was and don't remember how dominant (or not dominant) MJ was.  I'm not sure I remember ever seeing Magic play.  So I can't really compare the players on the court.  I just know I don't like MJ, Kobe, or LeBron, but I do like Magic, but that is just all based on his reputation because, again, I wasn't really old enough to form my own opinion on him when he was playing.

Well that is why I don't like the Jordan comparisons for on the court play and was limiting it to the off the court stuff.

[StillAWarrior]

You know who likes LeBron?  ABC

Ratings are great.  As this thread very capably illustrates, LeBron engenders strong feelings on both sides.  That is great for ratings.  I think that the network loves to show how great he is on the floor (and he has been great), but also offer glimpses of the "drama queen" side of LeBron (such as holding the "exhausted pose" as time expired last night).  A little something for both the lovers and the haters.

I definitely lean toward the "lovers" side of things.  But I've lived in Cleveland for the last 24 years, so that probably has something to do with it.  And I really don't hold "The Decision" against him too much.  Yes, that was a terrible PR misstep, but I am convinced he was sold on that idea by ESPN and his handlers and bought in because of the charity angle.  I think he had absolutely no idea how badly that would be received.  Granted, any rational (i.e., non- egotistical douchebag) would have seen that coming, but I think he was genuinely shocked.  Frankly, I believe that is one of the reasons he's always seeks public approval before doing things -- he realizes that he misjudged badly with "The Decision" and he doesn't want to repeat that.  He's the greatest basketball player alive, but he's still insecure and needs to be loved.

[MU82]

I was raised to treat everyone with respect and as an equal. Some people weren't. LeBron clearly was not. Which is fine. I'm not one to judge.

How the F do you know how LeBron was raised? And how the F do you make a statement like that and then claim you aren't "one to judge"?

And how the F do you later say were not "knocking someone's upbringing"?

"I was raised to treat everyone with respect and as an equal. Some people weren't. LeBron clearly was not." 

You said it. I didn't. Sultan didn't. You did. Don't try to spin it as somebody is putting words in your mouth.

I don't give a rat's rump if you root against LeBron or if others do, too. As many have said, rooting for and against people is the essence of fan-dom.

What bugs some of us is when one judges a person's heart or a person's upbringing without having a freakin' clue.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I root against Lebron.   He is annoying.  The Decision annoyed me.  I know it was a long time ago.  I know he's not some kind of criminal, and I don't wish bad upon him as a person, but I like to root against him.  
Why do people get so mad when others root against him?  When there's no Lebron I'll root against somebody else.  It makes the games fun to watch.  Seems pretty normal.

.

Question, if he played for your team ( Bulls?) do you feel same way?

[wadesworld]

How the F do you know how LeBron was raised? And how the F do you make a statement like that and then claim you aren't "one to judge"?

And how the F do you later say were not "knocking someone's upbringing"?

"I was raised to treat everyone with respect and as an equal. Some people weren't. LeBron clearly was not."  

You said it. I didn't. Sultan didn't. You did. Don't try to spin it as somebody is putting words in your mouth.

I don't give a rat's rump if you root against LeBron or if others do, too. As many have said, rooting for and against people is the essence of fan-dom.

What bugs some of us is when one judges a person's heart or a person's upbringing without having a freakin' clue.

Yeah I said it.  How do I know how he was raised?  Well, okay, my fault.  Maybe he was raised as a perfect humble person and when he got to the NBA he learned how to have people fired for not referring to him as "King" or for looking him in the eyes or for speaking to him before he speaks to them.  The Hummer he was driving around in high school was probably something he bought with the $0.00 salary he was making too.  Had nothing to do with those who were raising him.

You conveniently left off the very next sentence.  "Which is fine."  Talk about spinning.  Yes, I said those things that you bolded and italicized.  I followed it with what I bolded and italicized.  Looks like you and reinko are the ones who are judging that this would make him a bad person.  Me?  I think he was raised differently than I was.  Like I said, it's fine.  Just different.  Apparently you look at it and think it's bad.  I think it's different.  That's all I said, so it looks like you're the one spinning it by conveniently leaving out the very next sentence.  I prefer someone who treats everyone with the same respect and as if all humans are equal to them, regardless of fame or income.  Just a preference.  Doesn't make me right, just gives me a preference.  Is that clear enough?  Or should I not have a preference.  Just be indifferent?  Don't have a preference between Pope Francis and an ISIS member who beheads innocent people?  Got it.  Noted.

And I do have a freaking clue.  I personally know somebody who cooks LeBron's food multiple times a week, and who straight up was given 3 simple rules for his job (I have said this twice already in this thread, so maybe a third time will be the charm):

1) You must refer to LeBron as "King James."
2) You must not look LeBron in the eyes.
3) You must not talk to LeBron unless he talks to you.

Those were the 3 rules given to him when he got his job, and he serves every player on the Cavs team.  He wasn't told he'd be fired if he cooks something and it gives Mike Miller food poisoning.  He was told he would be fired for not referring to LeBron James as "King James."  When someone requires you to never look him in the eye, that is not treating people as your equal.  If you think that me coming to the conclusion that LeBron doesn't treat others as an equal based on that is me judging LeBron then sure, I'm judging him.  Absolutely I am.  But it's a fact that he doesn't allow the people who cook him food to look him in the eye or talk to him unless he talks to them first, and he requires them to refer to him as "King James."  Which, again, some people find to be fine and be able to look past.  Me?  I prefer stars who don't act like they're better than others.  I also know that it's a fact that the ball boys for the Bucks used to be able to take pictures with opposing players when they came to the BC.  I personally coached one of the ball boys for the Bucks who got pictures with Kevin Love, Dwyane Wade, Anthony Davis, etc.  Who caused the policy to change?  LeBron James.  The ball boys can no longer take pictures with any opposing players before or after games because LeBron didn't like being asked for a picture.  AD, Wade, Love, etc. never had a problem with it.  LeBron is too good for it.  Me judging?  Heck yeah!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

.

Question, if he played for your team ( Bulls?) do you feel same way?

This question isn't meant for me but during the summer of 2010 when the Bulls had room for 2 max contracts I wanted Wade and Bosh.  As a Bulls fan I would have had a really hard time rooting for Lebron if he had become a Bull, and my dislike of him has continued to grow since. 

[GGGG]

You conveniently left off the very next sentence.  "Which is fine."  Talk about spinning.  Yes, I said those things that you bolded and italicized.  I followed it with what I bolded and italicized.  Looks like you and reinko are the ones who are judging that this would make him a bad person.  Me?  I think he was raised differently than I was.  Like I said, it's fine.  Just different.  Apparently you look at it and think it's bad.  I think it's different.  That's all I said, so it looks like you're the one spinning it by conveniently leaving out the very next sentence.  I prefer someone who treats everyone with the same respect and as if all humans are equal to them, regardless of fame or income.  Just a preference.  Doesn't make me right, just gives me a preference.  Is that clear enough?  Or should I not have a preference.  Just be indifferent?  Don't have a preference between Pope Francis and an ISIS member who beheads innocent people?  Got it.  Noted.

Wow.  You kind of suck at analogies. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

They are running on fumes, that's what it looked like to me.  Going to be tough for them to do this, but he's earning a ton of respect from many a hater.

Have you taken a poll on all of the "haters"?  I loathe Lebron but I've always respected him as a talent and basketball player.  The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.  I don't think what has happened this postseason has made people who can't stand him feel any differently.  

For a guy of his talent, he constantly whines, flops, bitches, cries.  He is immensely unlikable and I can still think he is the best player in the league right now.  

Also, anyone who thinks he came back to Cleveland to "come home" and not because he felt it was the best opportunity for him to keep winning. It gave him the opportunity to create the narrative of unselfishness and him coming home.  If there was a better opportunity on another team he wouldn't be back in Cleveland right now.  

I am biased but he is not in the conversation with Jordan.  Another poster commented on this but the teams James had to go through in the East over the past 5 years are nothing compared to the teams that Jordan and the Bulls had to go through to make the finals.  The same holds true for the teams the Bulls beat in the finals to win those 6 titles.  

[wadesworld]

Wow.  You kind of suck at analogies. 

Wow is right.  I said I prefer one type of person.  Simple as that.  Some people prefer another type of person.  No problem.  I just prefer it one way.

[wadesworld]

Have you taken a poll on all of the "haters"?  I loathe Lebron but I've always respected him as a talent and basketball player.  The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.  I don't think what has happened this postseason has made people who can't stand him feel any differently.  

For a guy of his talent, he constantly whines, flops, bitches, cries.  He is immensely unlikable and I can still think he is the best player in the league right now.  

Also, anyone who thinks he came back to Cleveland to "come home" and not because he felt it was the best opportunity for him to keep winning. It gave him the opportunity to create the narrative of unselfishness and him coming home.  If there was a better opportunity on another team he wouldn't be back in Cleveland right now.  

I am biased but he is not in the conversation with Jordan.  Another poster commented on this but the teams James had to go through in the East over the past 5 years are nothing compared to the teams that Jordan and the Bulls had to go through to make the finals.  The same holds true for the teams the Bulls beat in the finals to win those 6 titles.  

First 2 paragraphs nailed it.

[GGGG]

I am biased but he is not in the conversation with Jordan.  Another poster commented on this but the teams James had to go through in the East over the past 5 years are nothing compared to the teams that Jordan and the Bulls had to go through to make the finals.  The same holds true for the teams the Bulls beat in the finals to win those 6 titles.  

I think the 2013 Spurs team was better than any team that Jordan faced.

1991 Lakers upset the Blazers, had an older Magic, but no one else very special. Worst team he faced.

1992 Blazers were good.  Roughly akin to the 2012 Thunder or the 2011 Mavs.

1993 Suns were the best of the first three, but not substantially better than the Blazers from the year before.  This was probably the worst year in the west, with the Blazers fading and the Sonics and Rockets just starting to get it going.  The Knicks team he faced in the semis was better than anyone in the West.

1996 Sonics were good.  Hard to judge cause that Bulls team was fantastic.  Best team I have ever seen in the NBA.

1997 & 98 Jazz were the best teams that Jordan had to face in the Finals.  I don't think they were as good as the 13 or 14 Spurs teams.  

[JWags85]

This question isn't meant for me but during the summer of 2010 when the Bulls had room for 2 max contracts I wanted Wade and Bosh.  As a Bulls fan I would have had a really hard time rooting for Lebron if he had become a Bull, and my dislike of him has continued to grow since. 

Exactly.  People say it all the time.  I wasn't pulling for Lebron to come to Chicago at all.  If he did, great as he's a fantastic basketball player.  But I wouldn't have gotten a jersey or t-shirt.  Or posted endless vines or memes of him.  Its a far greater version of Soriano on the Cubs.  Couldn't stand him but was happy when performed well and helped get Ws.

For a guy of his talent, he constantly whines, flops, bitches, cries.  He is immensely unlikable and I can still think he is the best player in the league right now.  

Also, anyone who thinks he came back to Cleveland to "come home" and not because he felt it was the best opportunity for him to keep winning. It gave him the opportunity to create the narrative of unselfishness and him coming home.  If there was a better opportunity on another team he wouldn't be back in Cleveland right now.  

Yep.

And Sultan, you keep banging on it.  When I call him "soft", I think you are assuming I mean shying away from contact, not physical, etc...  Thats not what I mean.  As I said before, I'm referring to his constant unsolicited injury updates and embellishments, his media maneuverings to make sure everyone loves him, all the silly nonsense he does other than be Lebron Destroyer of the Basketball World, which he has the talent and natural size to do.  Maybe thats just the "millennial" definition that us young folks use.

As with everything in this conversation, YMMV

[tower912]

I understand the Lebron hate.  I felt that way about Jordan.   I feel that way about Tiger.   Despite always rooting against them, I acknowledge their greatness.    I've never had that kind of hate for Lebron, but I understand it.   And I am guessing when his career is done, most will acknowledge that he was pretty good, even though they never liked him. 

[jesmu84]

I think the 2013 Spurs team was better than any team that Jordan faced.

1991 Lakers upset the Blazers, had an older Magic, but no one else very special. Worst team he faced.

1992 Blazers were good.  Roughly akin to the 2012 Thunder or the 2011 Mavs.

1993 Suns were the best of the first three, but not substantially better than the Blazers from the year before.  This was probably the worst year in the west, with the Blazers fading and the Sonics and Rockets just starting to get it going.  The Knicks team he faced in the semis was better than anyone in the West.

1996 Sonics were good.  Hard to judge cause that Bulls team was fantastic.  Best team I have ever seen in the NBA.

1997 & 98 Jazz were the best teams that Jordan had to face in the Finals.  I don't think they were as good as the 13 or 14 Spurs teams.  

I think he was referring to the conference opponents.

[GGGG]

I think he was referring to the conference opponents.

Vander said:

"I am biased but he is not in the conversation with Jordan.  Another poster commented on this but the teams James had to go through in the East over the past 5 years are nothing compared to the teams that Jordan and the Bulls had to go through to make the finals.  The same holds true for the teams the Bulls beat in the finals to win those 6 titles."

[RushmoreAcademy]

.

Question, if he played for your team ( Bulls?) do you feel same way?

Of course not.  That also is part of sports.  I couldn't stand Noah before the Bulls drafted him.   It's pretty clear that's how most feel too because people were burning Lebron's jersey in Cleveland just a few years ago.   Would we all defend Bo Ryan more if he was our coach?  Probably so.
The exceptions are with guys who just do bad things, such as if the Bears would have kept Ray McDonald, I wouldn't be able to root for him.  But if guys aren't criminals and are just regular old jerks, then sure, I'll root for my jerks and against the other jerks.
I don't support any claims that Lebron is a dirty player or complains more than your average guy, because everybody does the same things.
I do think I'd feel the same whether I was a Bulls fan or a Jazz fan. I never blamed Lebron for costing the Bulls anything, as there was always plenty of blame to go around on the team itself.
I basically just prefer to see him lose than to win.  He's also always playing for championships so I just get a lot more of a chance to do that. If Dwight Howard (bad example?) or somebody who seems to draw dislike was playing for more championships, I'd maybe be doing the same thing.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Vander said:

"I am biased but he is not in the conversation with Jordan.  Another poster commented on this but the teams James had to go through in the East over the past 5 years are nothing compared to the teams that Jordan and the Bulls had to go through to make the finals.  The same holds true for the teams the Bulls beat in the finals to win those 6 titles."

I did include both.  I feel more strongly about the comparison of the Eastern Conference quality versus the quality of teams each have played in the finals.  The Spurs of 2013 and 2014 were pretty damned good so I think there's an equally valid argument to be made on both sides. 

However, some of those Piston, Knicks and Pacers teams the Bulls had to go through in the 90s are head and shoulders better than the teams the Heat and the Cavs have had to go through.