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Author Topic: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?  (Read 24089 times)

keefe

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2014, 11:04:09 AM »
Tailhook was Navy....Keefe is very definitely an Air Force guy, I don't care if someone had a lapse in situational awareness and gave him gold wings, don't complement him by putting him in such an esteemed group as Naval Aviators.....ya know, horrible, misogynistic behavior aside.

You forget I also earned Wings of Gold. Double Centurion with 212 traps on the Maru!

I will say, I went to The Hook and couldn't believe the shenanigans, particularly on the 3rd deck of the Hilton. I ran into a buddy, Buzzard Healy who was the skipper of VMFA 101. He was relieved because of what happened in the 101 Hospitality Suite at the '91 Hook. Even though he wasn't there, he was held accountable for the actions and behavior of his JOs at the Hook.

When I saw him I was doing a cross country while flying Vipers for the ANG. We had a four ship coming back from Panama and landed at NAS Dallas for a maintenance issue. I ran into him by accident and I was shocked he was at such a back water - it didn't make sense for a sh1t hot Marine aviator like Buzzard. He told me he had been the Skipper of the Rhinos in 91 and I knew immediately.

Fighter pilots still manage to get into normal young man troubles. They just don't do it on such a grand stage as Tailhook for all the world to see. The Navy Brown Shoes let it get way out of hand. Even in '91, fresh off of victory in The Storm, the USAF never ever would have allowed anything like The Hook. The cultures of those two tribes are markedly different. USAF pilots are zany but the Navy Brown Shoes were in a league of their own.



« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:12:21 AM by keefe »


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mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2014, 11:19:22 AM »
You forget I also earned Wings of Gold. Double Centurion with 212 traps on the Maru!


Oh I know, hence my reference to someone losing situational awareness and allowing you those wings  ;)
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2014, 11:21:59 AM »

This.

And since I'm a guy, I would never use it in the workplace even with people I am familiar with.  Maybe it's because I work in the hyper-sensitive higher education environment I mentioned above, but I don't do or say *anything* that could be misinterpreted.  I don't even tell co-workers how nice they look.

I work for a fortune 500 company and behave this way as.  In fact, when walking the halls I generally avoid eye contact and/or anything but a neutral facial expression just because I don't want to deal with anything that could even remotely come close for another to interpret incorrectly.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2014, 11:25:29 AM »
What about being referred to collectively as "guys" amongst a group that may or may not include male colleagues?

Example: "Where are you guys going to lunch today?"  Does it make a difference whether the group is predominantly male, predominantly female or entirely female?

See this is where the rush to diversity and acceptance actually overruns true diversity.  I've found in the midwest guys is gender neutral when addressing a group.  Similar to y'all actually being singular in the south.  How because most things are viewed from the "sensitivity" prism(for lack of a better phrase) cultural norms are driven out decreasing diversity.

One thing I will say that my company has starting educating folks about as part of diversity is that their needs to be intelligence about what is said and how it could be interpreted by the receiver, but also on the part of the receiver to have intelligence about how it might have been intended.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2014, 11:26:47 AM »
I work for a fortune 500 company and behave this way as.  In fact, when walking the halls I generally avoid eye contact and/or anything but a neutral facial expression just because I don't want to deal with anything that could even remotely come close for another to interpret incorrectly.
Sounds like a great place to work  ::)

mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2014, 11:49:04 AM »
Sounds like a great place to work  ::)

I would feel the same regardless of where I work....actually my company is probably better than most...just the general environment I feel in the US.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

GGGG

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2014, 11:51:42 AM »
I would feel the same regardless of where I work....actually my company is probably better than most...just the general environment I feel in the US.


Yeah, I guess I don't judge if a place is good to work on the basis if I can call my co-workers "girls."

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2014, 01:12:31 PM »
One thing I will say that my company has starting educating folks about as part of diversity is that their needs to be intelligence about what is said and how it could be interpreted by the receiver, but also on the part of the receiver to have intelligence about how it might have been intended.

This is important, and hopefully the next evolution in this kind of stuff.

If there is a creepy 50yr old man who says weird things to the interns (female or male), then we probably need to get that documented with HR.

If somebody says "guys" or "girls" or whatever, maybe we need to let that one slide.


Coleman

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2014, 01:42:03 PM »
I work for a fortune 500 company and behave this way as.  In fact, when walking the halls I generally avoid eye contact and/or anything but a neutral facial expression just because I don't want to deal with anything that could even remotely come close for another to interpret incorrectly.

ditto, although I don't have as much of a problem with that as my workplace is 90% dudes

PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2014, 01:43:46 PM »

Yeah, I guess I don't judge if a place is good to work on the basis if I can call my co-workers "girls."
Perhaps he was referencing the poster avoiding eye contact when walking the halls?

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keefe

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2014, 02:07:39 PM »
Out seeking attractive gals (or ladies).  Keefe, maybe this will help. 

Talk Like Frank Sinatra
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/02/11/talk-like-frank-sinatra/

Where the hell did you find this site?? Priceless!


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MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2014, 02:26:17 PM »
Where the hell did you find this site?? Priceless!

I'm a Sinatra-fan.  He's the patron saint of Italian-Americans.  My Connecticut crowd of friends are all long-time Rat Pack fans, so one tends to pick these things up.  They were just pure style and pure fun.  The Rat Pack goes hand-in-hand with another one of my favorite pieces of Americana, a weekend in Saratoga.

CTWarrior

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2014, 02:42:53 PM »
Using the terms "Girls Night Out" is different than calling someone a girl or a group of women "Girls" because it is a commonly used expression that denotes a social event that was attended exclusively by females.  The thought of being offended by that is beyond ridiculous.  A similar thing happened a few years ago to a friend of my mother's (probabaly 78 years old at the time but full of life) who had the misfortune of saying "Attaboy!" at a Dunkin' Donuts as a friendly way of congratulating the African-America teenager behind the counter for getting her the last donut or whatever before someone else.  He ripped into her for calling him "boy" and gave the item, whatever it was, to the other person looking for it.  Like "Girls Night Out", "Attaboy" is a common expression, meaning "Way to go!"

It is easy to choose to be offended if you want to be.  It is also easy to choose to interpret remarks charitably, which is what my mother always taught me.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2014, 02:58:13 PM »
Using the terms "Girls Night Out" is different than calling someone a girl or a group of women "Girls" because it is a commonly used expression that denotes a social event that was attended exclusively by females.  The thought of being offended by that is beyond ridiculous.  A similar thing happened a few years ago to a friend of my mother's (probabaly 78 years old at the time but full of life) who had the misfortune of saying "Attaboy!" at a Dunkin' Donuts as a friendly way of congratulating the African-America teenager behind the counter for getting her the last donut or whatever before someone else.  He ripped into her for calling him "boy" and gave the item, whatever it was, to the other person looking for it.  Like "Girls Night Out", "Attaboy" is a common expression, meaning "Way to go!"

It is easy to choose to be offended if you want to be.  It is also easy to choose to interpret remarks charitably, which is what my mother always taught me.

Hence my point on the receiver having to have intelligence about intent and cultural understanding.

Bottom line, the pendulum has swung to give one who could take offense all of the power, the pendulum needs to come back to the middle.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2014, 03:00:15 PM »
Yeah, I guess I don't judge if a place is good to work on the basis if I can call my co-workers "girls."
Wow, not even close to what I meant.

If you have to walk the halls of the company you work for afraid to make eye contact with your co-workers, there is something very wrong.  

I work for a large global company.  My client is one of the largest companies in the world and I have spent a lot of time in their US headquarters.  Never once have I felt like I should not or could not make eye contact with someone or say "hello" or whatever.  

mu03eng

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2014, 03:10:10 PM »
Wow, not even close to what I meant.

If you have to walk the halls of the company you work for afraid to make eye contact with your co-workers, there is something very wrong.  

I work for a large global company.  My client is one of the largest companies in the world and I have spent a lot of time in their US headquarters.  Never once have I felt like I should not or could not make eye contact with someone or say "hello" or whatever.  

Again, I'd feel that way regardless of the major company I was working for.  More than happy to say hi to people I know and talk, but if I don't know you, better to avoid contact then get accused of leering or something silly like that.
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warriorchick

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2014, 05:51:38 PM »
Out seeking attractive gals (or ladies).  Keefe, maybe this will help.  

Talk Like Frank Sinatra
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/02/11/talk-like-frank-sinatra/

Interesting,  but in this century, we wouldn't consider being called a "broad" a compliment.  And oI am surprised that "dame" is supposed to be derogatory.  Not that it is any better than "broad"...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 06:06:59 PM by warriorchick »
Have some patience, FFS.

WellsstreetWanderer

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2014, 06:03:29 PM »
What a world we have created for our offspring.  Chronic victimhood is rampant

warriorchick

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2014, 08:04:02 PM »
I work for a fortune 500 company and behave this way as.  In fact, when walking the halls I generally avoid eye contact and/or anything but a neutral facial expression just because I don't want to deal with anything that could even remotely come close for another to interpret incorrectly.

It has been my experience that Fortune 500 companies aren't always the most politically correct places, either.  Several years ago my company was bought out by one, and I had the following conversation with one of their executives:

Fortune 500 exec: "Aren't you one of the girls that works in the accounting department?"
Me: "Um, I am the controller, if that is what you are trying to ask.  I am kind of surprised that you would use the term "girl" to refer to a female employee."
Fortune 500 exec: "Well, I would think someone your age would consider it a compliment to be called a 'girl'".

Now I am not the kind of person who would make a federal case out of it.  But even if I was, who would have I complained to?  This guy was the head of HR.
Have some patience, FFS.

forgetful

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2014, 08:37:53 PM »

This.

And since I'm a guy, I would never use it in the workplace even with people I am familiar with.  Maybe it's because I work in the hyper-sensitive higher education environment I mentioned above, but I don't do or say *anything* that could be misinterpreted.  I don't even tell co-workers how nice they look.

I think this is an over-reaction and also a mis-statement on academia.  I have worked in academia for quite some time and also interface with industry on collaborations and do not find it any more hyper-sensitive than anywhere else, nor do I find academia to have any more nut cases than the general public (after all 4% of all CEO's are psychopaths).

But the over-reaction part is not being able to say anything that could be misinterpreted, including things like "you look nice" as someone else mentioned.

The problem is that people don't actually develop meaningful relationships involving mutual respect anymore.  I'm sure I have often used girls in reference to women, I also don't shy away from telling someone they look nice and have never had a problem.  I do that though with people that I have developed relationships with that center on mutual respect.  They would never assume I am meaning it as a slight, because it is well known the level of respect I have for them, similarly they would not be bothered by a comment, because we have developed rapport. 

If people spent more time getting to know people and outwardly letting them know there level of respect then we wouldn't have problems with these sorts of things.  It is when coworkers view there colleagues as competitors that these issues become a problem 

keefe

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2014, 09:14:31 PM »
Interesting,  but in this century, we wouldn't consider being called a "broad" a compliment.

Isn't it a reference to one's intake of deep fried foods and BBQ?


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keefe

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2014, 09:32:41 PM »
So I went to Prof. James South's personal webpage on the Marquette University server. I am attaching a link FROM HIS MARQUETTE WEBPAGE where he lists his very favorite episode of Xena as, "GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN."

WHAT A F#CKING IDIOT!!! Someone needs to put a letter in his personnel file about this outrage.

I have no idea who James South is but he is an immortal F#cking Moron.

Here is the Link:

 
http://www.marquette.edu/phil/south/#me



JAMES SOUTH: YOU ARE AN IDIOT UNFIT TO LEAD!


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Chicago_inferiority_complexes

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2014, 09:46:52 PM »
So I went to Prof. James South's personal webpage on the Marquette University server. I am attaching a link FROM HIS MARQUETTE WEBPAGE where he lists his very favorite episode of Xena as, "GIRLS JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN."

WHAT A F#CKING IDIOT!!! Someone needs to put a letter in his personnel file about this outrage.

I have no idea who James South is but he is an immortal F#cking Moron.

Here is the Link:

 
http://www.marquette.edu/phil/south/#me



JAMES SOUTH: YOU ARE AN IDIOT UNFIT TO LEAD!

You gotta send that to McAdams. Better yet, send him a screen shot.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2014, 09:56:48 PM »
Washington should rename its football team "girls night out", that will get things going

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: "girls night out" is sexual harassment?
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2014, 09:59:56 PM »
I think a Prof. that speaks out has tremendous value.

I just hope that he/she picks the right spot. It's okay to let some stuff slide.

But this is a case where someone's career path was at issue because someone (there is always SOMEONE) that gets offended. I'd say this is exactly the right spot to bring this up, because the more this stuff is brought up the more it opens the eyes of some of the complete whack jobs that are out there in this world, many of them in positions of power.