Volleyball Thread

[ChicosBailBonds]

It is honestly not that hard to understand.  Men's volleyball throughout the country has grown and the gap has closed on the stronghold that the MPSF had on the country.  It's not hard to see in the least bit, and to argue against that is incredibly ignorant.  Go look at the list of NCAA champions.  70s?  All MPSF.  80s?  All MPSF.  90s?  All MPSF.  2000s?  7 MPSF and 1 EIVA (2 vacated).  2010s?  Oh.  4 MIVAs, 3 MPSF?

Agree, men's volleyball has closed the gap in terms of quality.  But you're focusing on the champion, not the entire league or where the top talent is coming from, which was my point.  

But it's pure luck that the MPSF (okay, west coast schools, since there was no MPSF for a long time) won like 37 straight titles.  MIVA is just as good, just had some off nights at key times.  Or something like that.       That wasn't my argument at all, but if it makes you feel good...go for it.  It was a very simple argument....nothing to do with luck.  Ohio State won the match, great first game that BYU easily could have won (5 times), but didn't.  BYU seemed to lose a lot of momentum and lost the match.  Better teams lose matches in all sports at times.  The best team doesn't always win.  Most experts felt BYU was the best team.  All the computers did, too.  Thing is, it is sports, and anything can happen.  Nothing to do with luck...OSU deserved to win that match that day.  Not sure how this is difficult to process.  MU deserved to beat Denver last Saturday in Lacrosse ON THAT DAY.  Does that mean MU was lucky that day?  Nope.  Does it mean MU played really well...maybe Denver didn't play up their capability?  Maybe.

Oh, but players from CA are on those MIVA teams!  So the MPSF really won the National Titles!     Never said or implied that.  I said talented CA players were on those teams, how that translates to "MPSF really won those titles is just weird silly talk by you.

[wadesworld]

Go read up on what all the "experts" have said since the match. Yes, before the match everyone thought BYU was a better team. Now? Only incredibly ignorant people believe that.

2 losses all year. Wins over all 3 top 3 MPSF teams in the final month of the season (none on the home court). National chamionship match sweep (route). Far and away best serving and passing team in volleyball. 23 match winning streak to end the season. Oh, and unanimous #1 team in the country, voted on by your "experts." Maybe these are the "power rankings" you were referring to? Never seen men's volleyball power rankings. But do see 1 national champion and 1 unanimous #1 team in the country, and neither is the BYU Cougars.

But hey, some guy who just started following the sport 2 years ago said BYU is the best team, so it must be so.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Go read up on what all the "experts" have said since the match. Yes, before the match everyone thought BYU was a better team. Now? Only incredibly ignorant people believe that.

2 losses all year. Wins over all 3 top 3 MPSF teams in the final month of the season (none on the home court). National chamionship match sweep (route). Far and away best serving and passing team in volleyball. 23 match winning streak to end the season. Oh, and unanimous #1 team in the country, voted on by your "experts." Maybe these are the "power rankings" you were referring to? Never seen men's volleyball power rankings. But do see 1 national champion and 1 unanimous #1 team in the country, and neither is the BYU Cougars.

But hey, some guy who just started following the sport 2 years ago said BYU is the best team, so it must be so.

You know, as quick as the offense in volleyball has become in the past decade, you're right about the passing. From now until this end of time, competitive volleyball will always be a serve and pass game.

[wadesworld]

You know, as quick as the offense in volleyball has become in the past decade, you're right about the passing. From now until this end of time, competitive volleyball will always be a serve and pass game.

Absolutely.  I never really understood the importance of passing until I got into coaching and started watching the game with an eye on what makes a team successful.  The game is so easy when you're in system all the time.  The team who can remain in system and take the other team out of system more often than not wins your national title.  This year it was OSU, the last 2 years it was Loyola.  I don't really remember UCI a ton the 2 years prior, but with Brinkley and Tillie as your 2 main passers and Dejno and Tillie able to bomb away from the service line, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for them as well.

Edit: I remember their second of the back to back titles, as I was there.  Hughes took Dejno's place as L2 going into the conference tournament.  Weaker passer than Tillie and Brinkley but a really good offensive player.  In the semifinals they were running high balls to the right and La Cavera didn't look very good.  They were clearly hiding their game plan in the semis, because when they got to the finals and were passing nails all game they set darts back to La Cavera on the RS.  Their setter was really impressive.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'm sure someone will appreciate this. So who would have probably been my best player has been ineligible for the entire season. Get the eligibility report today for next week, guess whose eligible for the last game of the season...Unbelievable. most frustrating thing I have ever had to deal with.

[StillAWarrior]

Cook just got a raise.  Wow.

[wadesworld]

Cook just got a raise.  Wow.

And people questioned $hane Davi$'s move from Loyola men's to B1G women's volleyball...

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

And people questioned $hane Davi$'s move from Loyola men's to B1G women's volleyball...

People actually questioned that? I don't blame him one bit. He did everything he possibly could with that program from keeping it alive to a dominant 2 year stretch.

[wadesworld]

Not that it comes as any surprise but it's still cool that it's official, the Boys Fab 50 is out and Scott Stadick, of Watertown, WI (no boys volleyball program at Watertown High School) is ranked the #1 recruit in the country.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Go read up on what all the "experts" have said since the match. Yes, before the match everyone thought BYU was a better team. Now? Only incredibly ignorant people believe that.

2 losses all year. Wins over all 3 top 3 MPSF teams in the final month of the season (none on the home court). National chamionship match sweep (route). Far and away best serving and passing team in volleyball. 23 match winning streak to end the season. Oh, and unanimous #1 team in the country, voted on by your "experts." Maybe these are the "power rankings" you were referring to? Never seen men's volleyball power rankings. But do see 1 national champion and 1 unanimous #1 team in the country, and neither is the BYU Cougars.

But hey, some guy who just started following the sport 2 years ago said BYU is the best team, so it must be so.

The "incredibly ignorant"....cool.   Those same experts a day before had BYU unanimous...and you are wrong, OSU was not-unanimous, BYU still got a vote...probably from an "incredibly ignorant" person, or maybe the incredibly ignorant person was you for claiming that and being wrong.     http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/volleyball-men/nc/avca-division-i-ii-coaches 

Who is this guy that "just started" following the sport 2 years ago?   I've been playing for over 30 years....hell, I was ball-boying back in the days of the Ventura Beach Open, going to camps at Pepperdine, etc.  Just because I didn't have a ton of renewed interest until the last few years does not mean I just started with the sport or even following it.  Hell, I used to follow the NBA religiously, and then for 15 years barely anything....because I hated what the NBA became.

Lots of fun photos I could post here of me playing since the 1980's, into Marquette, and beyond....getting my son involved, etc.  Going back to Steve Timmons days, Karch, Sunderland, Dusty...Chris Marlowe has been a friend for over 20 years.  But hey, whatever.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Youngs...Would your kid like some Chris Marlowe autographed stuff?  Let me know, I'll have him sign some stuff and send it over...just PM me.

[wadesworld]

The "incredibly ignorant"....cool.   Those same experts a day before had BYU unanimous...and you are wrong, OSU was not-unanimous, BYU still got a vote...probably from an "incredibly ignorant" person, or maybe the incredibly ignorant person was you for claiming that and being wrong.     http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/volleyball-men/nc/avca-division-i-ii-coaches 

Who is this guy that "just started" following the sport 2 years ago?   I've been playing for over 30 years....hell, I was ball-boying back in the days of the Ventura Beach Open, going to camps at Pepperdine, etc.  Just because I didn't have a ton of renewed interest until the last few years does not mean I just started with the sport or even following it.  Hell, I used to follow the NBA religiously, and then for 15 years barely anything....because I hated what the NBA became.

Lots of fun photos I could post here of me playing since the 1980's, into Marquette, and beyond....getting my son involved, etc.  Going back to Steve Timmons days, Karch, Sunderland, Dusty...Chris Marlowe has been a friend for over 20 years.  But hey, whatever.

Yes, those same "experts" had BYU as a unanimous favorite to win the National Championship match...but then the match was, well, you know, actually played.  And one team was far and away better than the other, and those "experts" all (and I mean, all) changed their thoughts.  The poll I was referring to was the media poll, you know, the guys who all made their public predictions on who was going to win.  Sorry, but no coaches were going on record before the match saying, "Oh yeah, BYU wins this thing easily."  It was all the media "experts."  And who was your unanimous #1 team in the media poll after the National Championship match was actually played?

http://www.offtheblockblog.com/2016/05/ncaa-champs-ohio-state-unanimous-no-1-in-media-poll/

Weird.

But yes, Sean Manzi is incredibly ignorant.  He coached an average Coastal Carolina Conference team (who one of the players I coached that played in the Coastal Carolinas for 4 years told me "would finish in the Bronze Division of 18s Open) and sent in his AVCA coach's poll 3 total weeks, including the final poll.  Interestingly enough, the poll he sent in 2 weeks prior to his final poll had...Ohio State at number 1.  But then Ohio State went on and...won the MIVA Conference Tournament and won the NCAA Championship and he...drops them below the team they swept in the National Title?  Uhh, yeah, I'll stick to him being incredibly ignorant.

Glad you've been around the game, active in the game, a fan of the game, and are back into the game with your son getting into it.  I'll stick with you not fully understanding the game if you think a team just simply didn't play well and was really the better team after a 30-32, 23-25, 17-25 loss.

Appreciate the offer for autographs but I don't have kids and don't coach anymore.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cool, so we are in agreement they weren't the unanimous #1 per the polls.  We're also in agreement the best team doesn't always win.  We're also in agreement that a team can win 3-0 and then lose to the same team the same year 3-0 (heck, even in the same week it has happened).

I saw Denver lost in Lacrosse today...they were #1 last week...lost to MU.  Then lost again today.  Things happen.  It is sports.  That's why they play the games.

[wadesworld]

Cool, so we are in agreement they weren't the unanimous #1 per the polls.  We're also in agreement the best team doesn't always win.  We're also in agreement that a team can win 3-0 and then lose to the same team the same year 3-0 (heck, even in the same week it has happened).

I saw Denver lost in Lacrosse today...they were #1 last week...lost to MU.  Then lost again today.  Things happen.  It is sports.  That's why they play the games.

...except they were a unanimous #1 in the media poll.  You know, the poll that consists of the people who were making their unanimous BYU prediction.  Not all that hard to comprehend, yet there's Chicos, always making the simple difficult lol.

Thanks for proving my point.  "Experts" got it wrong in lacrosse.  They thought Denver was the best team in the country.  When they actually had to, you know, play the game, they weren't the best team in the country.

"Experts" thought BYU was the best team in the country.  When they had to, you know, play the game, they weren't the best team in the country.

Someday if you don't lose interest in the sport for years before gaining interest in it again you'll come to understand what wins and loses volleyball matches and then maybe you'll understand which team was the better team.

Anyways, 3 straight NCAA Titles for the MIVA, and 4 of the last 6.  This after never, in the history of men's volleyball, having had a national title come from the Midwest in college volleyball.  99.9999% of people would understand that the gap is being closed.  0.0001% of the people would claim that the West Coast should get credit for it because a couple players that started on those teams were from the West Coast, and/or that it's just a crapshoot and there's no real rhyme or reason as to why 37 straight or whatever it is national titles came from the West Coast. 

Not sure why I've let this draw out.  Literally every MPSF coach who sent in a ballot (INCLUDING BYU'S OWN COACH!!!) agrees that Ohio State is the #1 team in the country.  I have talked to Marv Dunphy, a man you apparently were coached by at his camps, about the BYU team and he has the same take as me.  I have talked to Brad Keller, the assistant for your beloved Bruins, and he has the same take on where games are won and lost and who was best at that.  He saw it first hand 2 nights before BYU did.  I talked to a couple of MPSF player about the National Title and they agreed that after thinking BYU was going to win it all, it was clear why they didn't and who the better team was.

But if it helps you sleep at night, you're right.  Those boys from Provo were clearly the best team in the country this season.  Just had a bad night at the wrong time.  It's a darn shame the MPSF continues to have untimely bad matches come up lately after never having it happen in the past.

P.S. The one thing I would like to hear further on the topic is this "long list" that you have "in your mind" of top level West Coast talent leaving California and going to play in the MIVA or EIVA prior to Cody Caldwell (who, again, was supposed to be this generational talent in Southern California...and then went and got passed up by a bunch of cheeseheads and FIBs at Loyola, resulting in a nice complimentary player for 4 years).  I've been anxiously awaiting it for a while now as I'm genuinely intrigued...

[wadesworld]

Oh also do you think UCI just sent their 2012 and 2013 NCAA championship trophies over to France by UPS or...?

[StillAWarrior]

Prepvolleyball.com lists Marquette as No. 19 recruiting class for 2016. 

19. MARQUETTE: Allie Barber, 6-4 MB, Cedarburg (Wisconsin); Madeline Mosher, 6-0 OH, Waterloo (Wisconsin); Lauren Speckman, 5-9 S, Archbishop Mitty (San Jose, California)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not unanimous in the coaches poll.   Makes you wonder why it was such a huge upset, after all they were ranked #2 and #2 beating #1 shouldn't be considered a major upset.  Yet that is how it was portrayed.

Good for OSU, shame they didn't get unanimous, but they still got the trophy.  They were the better team that day.  It happens...in fact it happens in sports all the time.  Team wins one day, loses to same team a few days later.   Heck, I'm watching the "best team" NBA that everyone on the planet would agree is the case, might not even make the NBA finals and that is in a 7 game series, not a one match setup like the NCAA tournament.  It happens.

Sports are fun

[ChicosBailBonds]

My son made all league first team tonight.  Very proud.  Only junior to make first team.  Led the team in digs, serves, service winners, aces, and was second in assists.   Proud papa.

[wadesworld]

Congrats to your son. Very cool.

Congrats also to Ohio State on being the best team in the country all year long. Well deserved National Championship for them. 3 straight for the MIVA. Impressive.

[StillAWarrior]

My son made all league first team tonight.  Very proud.  Only junior to make first team.  Led the team in digs, serves, service winners, aces, and was second in assists.   Proud papa.

Congrats to your son, Chicos.  Please send him from SoCal out here to the Midwest for college so that the teams out here can continue dominating those West Coast schools.   

[wadesworld]

Uh oh, the big bad MPSF and the West Coast volleyball are getting scared into some pretty drastic changes.

CSUN, UCSB, LBSU, UCI, UCSD, and Hawaii splitting off into the Big West Conference in an attempt to get the NCAA Tournament to expand and to steal an autobid.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Congrats to your son, Chicos.  Please send him from SoCal out here to the Midwest for college so that the teams out here can continue dominating those West Coast schools.   

He wants out of California, like many of us.  Soccer is his true best sport...he was at a showcase this past weekend and did very well.  Some MLS scouts there, said some nice things.  Vball he loves more, but just doesn't have the size for it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Uh oh, the big bad MPSF and the West Coast volleyball are getting scared into some pretty drastic changes.

CSUN, UCSB, LBSU, UCI, UCSD, and Hawaii splitting off into the Big West Conference in an attempt to get the NCAA Tournament to expand and to steal an autobid.

That's a good thing, overall.  As I stated a few weeks ago, how the NCAA does the volleyball tournament is just dumb.  What they really need to do is expand the tournament.  That is what is ultimately rumored to happen, and I couldn't agree more.  This is just another step of getting to that inevitability.  The hope is this happens with other conferences as well.  I say, BRING IT ON.  Good news for volleyball. 

[wadesworld]

That's a good thing, overall.  As I stated a few weeks ago, how the NCAA does the volleyball tournament is just dumb.  What they really need to do is expand the tournament.  That is what is ultimately rumored to happen, and I couldn't agree more.  This is just another step of getting to that inevitability.  The hope is this happens with other conferences as well.  I say, BRING IT ON.  Good news for volleyball.

It's good news for men's volleyball...if other conferences do it, followed by other schools adding the sport to fill up those conferences. Problem is, with Title IV, nobody's adding men's volleyball at the DI-II level. So this is a good thing for scared West Cost schools who see the Midwest and East making up ground and "stealing" their bids to the NCAA Tournament. Who it REALLY sucks for is Stanford, Pepperdine, BYU, USC and UCLA. If you're ranking the men's volleyball programs in terms of who have had the most recent, and will continue to have long term, success from the (now) old MPSF, you have literally the 4 best programs remaining in the (now) new MPSF.

1) UCLA
2) Pepperdine
3) Stanford
4) BYU
5) UCI
6) USC
7) LBSU
8) Hawaii
9) UCSB
Everyone else.

So now AT MOST the top 4 teams (and 5 of the top 6) from the (now) old MPSF are battling for 2 NCAA Tournament spots, and sometimes just one depending if any 2 teams completely separate themselves as the top 2 teams and dominate everyone else in either the MIVA or Big West. HUGE loss for the (now) new MPSF, which is very unfortunate.

HUGE win for the (now) Big West members. Those coaches have to be salivating big time.

Expand the NCAA Tournament? Is this where college sports are going now too? Catching up to the pee wee "everyone gets a trophy!" idea I see.

[ChicosBailBonds]

UCLA, USC will be just fine.  All of those schools will still be playing the Big West and vice versa.  The only difference is the standings and an extra bid.  The talent will mostly still be on the west coast in high schools, most will stay out this way and others will go to play in the Midwest and East coast where there are opportunities.  Stop with the Midwest and East coast nonsense and schools running scared.  If anything, they know how powerful the MPSF is and this gives them a better chance of getting out from some of that, grabbing a bid. I don't blame them one bit.  Won't change scheduling one bit, those same teams will still play the same teams.

As for no one adding, that's not really true.  Sure, it's not happening in droves because of Title IX and other reasons, but you have several schools moving from DIII up to DI, and a several NAIA schools moving to NCAA DII. 

You honestly think expanding the tournament from 6 to 8 is equivalent to everyone gets a trophy?  Even going to 10 or 12 or 16, with byes...hardly.   Six is too small, and it will be expanded.  I guarantee it.

Let's not go overboard here. No one is saying everyone gets a trophy.