2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[jesmu84]

so... do we want to talk about michael sam or no?

[NavinRJohnson]

so... do we want to talk about michael sam or no?

What's to talk about?

[jesmu84]

What's to talk about?

just curious about poster's opinions on how it affects his draft chances, etc.

Vincent Jackson doesn't want to play with him...http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/usf-recruit-tweets-he-cant-play-with-a-dude-who-wants-whats-in-his-pants/

Does anyone want him on their team?

Edit: Merritt is right and I should have clarified. It's not the current NFL WR. It's a high school recruit for USF.

[MerrittsMustache]

just curious about poster's opinions on how it affects his draft chances, etc.

Vincent Jackson doesn't want to play with him...http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/usf-recruit-tweets-he-cant-play-with-a-dude-who-wants-whats-in-his-pants/

Does anyone want him on their team?

Just to be clear, that's not current NFL WR Vincent Jackson. That's a high school senior named Vincent Jackson who's headed to USF to play football.

If Michael Sam can play, he'll get drafted and be on an NFL team. 90-95% of his teammates won't care that he's gay. The only time an issue would arise would be if the media can get one of the other 5-10% of his teammates to say something derogatory. The media is definitely going to try. If he's a fringe player, teams won't want to draft/sign him for fear of the backlash they'd face if they cut him. Sam could end up like Tim Tebow where he's talented enough to be on an NFL roster, but the media circus that surrounds him makes him nearly impossible to employ.

I wish him the best.

[Jay Bee]

He sounds like a packer

Kluwe would play with him

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Hes a good player. They dont give out SEC defensive player of the year to anybody. Thats all NFL management and scouts should care about.

[jesmu84]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/

“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/

"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."

All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?

"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"

[wadesworld]

I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/

“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/

"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."

All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?

"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"

I hate upper management.

[Jay Bee]

I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.

So you're in favor of making the showers in gyms unisex? Cool!

If not, why not?!?!

[wadesworld]

So you're in favor of making the showers in gyms unisex? Cool!

If not, why not?!?!

I don't shower at the gym. Go home and take a shower where there's not nastiness all over the ground and walls.

Never been in an NFL locker room, but I'd have to assume there's enough money to separate showers with dividers. What's the difference if someone who is gay sees you showering vs. someone who is straight seeing you shower? Again, the guy isn't going to make a move on you unless he wants to be beat to a pulp.

[NavinRJohnson]

I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.

It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.

[jesmu84]

It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.

I think you're a little off here. It's going to be newsworthy not matter who it is, because it's change from the norm. Especially with football and its associated machismo. Should it be newsworthy, in society today? I don't think so. But it will be.

When you're naming 3 hall of fame players and pointing out they would be playing somewhere if they were openly gay, I think that's a little unfair. How would their careers have altered had they come out before they were drafted? I bet it would have been slightly different.

[jesmu84]

I think the Bears should go best defensive player available for the first 4 rounds. I'd prefer a safety in the first.

[NavinRJohnson]

When you're naming 3 hall of fame players and pointing out they would be playing somewhere if they were openly gay, I think that's a little unfair. How would their careers have altered had they come out before they were drafted? I bet it would have been slightly different.

So, are you suggesting that if this was Jadeveon Clowney, that he would not be a top 5 pick? Where his career goes from there, who knows? No one ever knows, but if you are a marginal talent/later round pick, a GM may decide the extra attention that has nothing to do with football, may not be worth it. If he is a superior talent, they aren't going to care.

[MerrittsMustache]

I think the Bears should go best defensive player available for the first 4 rounds. I'd prefer a safety in the first.

I like Clinton-Dix for the Bears, but d-line is more important than safety. A lack of pass rush really exposed Wright and Conte this past season. Pass rusher and DT need to be the Bears' top priorities. If they can't rush the passer and can't stop the run, it doesn't matter how good the safeties are.

[Jay Bee]

Never been in an NFL locker room, but I'd have to assume there's enough money to separate showers with dividers. What's the difference if someone who is gay sees you showering vs. someone who is straight seeing you shower? Again, the guy isn't going to make a move on you unless he wants to be beat to a pulp.

Vikings play at the U of Minn for next two years.

So you're ok with unisex shower areas (with dividers) at gyms then right?

[LloydMooresLegs]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/

“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/

"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."

All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?

"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"

F.U. and "affecting" your locker room.  Just go play football.

F.U. and your "man's man game."  This kid --not a man's man, apparently - would kick your sad "player personnel assistant" ass. [What does that title even mean?]

F.U. and using "human nature" as an excuse.  Neanderthal nature maybe.

You don't have to like it boys, but this train done left the station; now maybe the other 10, 20 or 50 current NFL gay players will join him (not likely for a while, I'm afraid).  Then at least all the haters will know from whom to stay away.

Pathetic.  And predictable.  And the answer to the rhetorical question at the end of the quote is yes.

[MerrittsMustache]

F.U. and "affecting" your locker room.  Just go play football.

F.U. and your "man's man game."  This kid --not a man's man, apparently - would kick your sad "player personnel assistant" ass. [What does that title even mean?]

F.U. and using "human nature" as an excuse.  Neanderthal nature maybe.

You don't have to like it boys, but this train done left the station; now maybe the other 10, 20 or 50 current NFL gay players will join him (not likely for a while, I'm afraid).  Then at least all the haters will know from whom to stay away.

Pathetic.  And predictable.  And the answer to the rhetorical question at the end of the quote is yes.

Players are much more accepting than front offices and coaches. Players don't face the PR hit if the gay player is released from the team. Players don't have to deal with taking disciplinary action against a teammate who uses a gay slur. Players aren't on the hook to pay a guy $20 million after he said he's uncomfortable with his gay teammate. Players just play. For the most part, they don't care if a teammate is gay, straight, a virgin, a chubby chaser, whatever. They care if he can help them win. The suits are the ones who are scared.

[JWags85]

It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.

But he's not a mediocre talent.  He was the freaking Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC.  That doesn't automatically project to an NFL star, but this isn't some scrub.  He was talked about as a 2nd or 3rd round pick and now he's suddenly a fringe prospect.  I just saw this morning that CBS Sports dropped him 70 spots in their player rankings.  He was a top 75 prospect prior to all of this.  If that doesn't prove out that this is a big story, then your head is in the sand.

Phil Emery came out with a pretty fair and positive statement about it all, which is encouraging as a Bears fan.  These bigoted GMs coming out and saying he's an overrated or not very good player are an absolute joke.

[tower912]

Prior to his announcement, he was listed as high as the late second round or as low as the late 4th round.   Classic 'tweener'.   Not big enough to play defensive end, not fast enough to be a linebacker.   Not every tweener morphs into Terrell Suggs.  But if he were available in the 4th round, I think he would be worth a gamble.   It would not bother me in the slightest if the Lions drafted him in the 4th or 5th round.  If he can help the team, take him.  

[muarmy81]

It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.

Ironic you mention Rodgers. 

[NavinRJohnson]

Ironic you mention Rodgers. 

That took longer than I expected.

[Jay Bee]

That took longer than I expected.

That's what... he said

[tower912]

If I was checked out by a gay man in the shower, my main concern would be why he had such low standards.   I've showered after working out at the Y for years.   Statistically speaking, at some point there was a gay guy in the shower room at the same time I was.    Stunningly, there have been no incidents