2014-15 NFC North/NFL Thread

[JWags85]

The "only" condemning going on is by those simply anticipating or expecting wholesale bigotry - creating it, so they can condemn it. Of course there are exceptions, but this whole thing is one big yawn to most, except to people like Bernstein who see it simply as an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.

I'm not trying to attack your opinion, or be incindiary, but do you honestly believe this isn't a big deal at all?  That homosexuality and gay rights are such a widely accepted and uncontroversial topic that this first openly gay player, in what's been viewed as the most masculine and manly of sports, doesn't move the needle at all.  The sentiment of it not being a big deal to you personally I understand, and respect cause its an open-minded, accepting, and modern viewpoint, but to act like its not still contentious for a large portion of the country is a bit near sighted,  I imagine if you did a straw poll on opinions around Sam's hometown outside Houston vs NYC, you'd see a very different result.  Sam's own Dad doesn't approve of his "lifestyle"

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm not trying to attack your opinion, or be incindiary, but do you honestly believe this isn't a big deal at all?  That homosexuality and gay rights are such a widely accepted and uncontroversial topic that this first openly gay player, in what's been viewed as the most masculine and manly of sports, doesn't move the needle at all.  The sentiment of it not being a big deal to you personally I understand, and respect cause its an open-minded, accepting, and modern viewpoint, but to act like its not still contentious for a large portion of the country is a bit near sighted,  I imagine if you did a straw poll on opinions around Sam's hometown outside Houston vs NYC, you'd see a very different result.  Sam's own Dad doesn't approve of his "lifestyle"

I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't  know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.

He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.

I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.

[mu-rara]

I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't  know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.

He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.

I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.

Amen NRJ.

[MarsupialMadness]

Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:

Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season

http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season

7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
 

[JWags85]

I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't  know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.

He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.

I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.

Fair points, and I don't entirely disagree with you.  As far as his Dad, there was an article that said he basically got up and left a family party when he found out cause he was upset and then later was quoted saying "I don't want my grandkids growing up in that kind of environment.  I'm an old-school, man and woman kind of guy."  Yeesh.

Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:

Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season

http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season

7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
 

I'll save the easy jokes about Angelo's terrible track record at evaluating QBs and QB talent, but I don't see alot I disagree with on his list.  I think he was a bit too high on Andrew Luck and Wilson, and a bit too low on Nick Foles.

Cutler, I agree with half of it.  He locked onto Marshall due to lack of confidence in the past, but I think its more that he goes into a play with a set idea of how its going to play out.  And that can be an issue.  His inconsistency in the "clutch" has been proven to be incorrect, especially if this is just the 2013 season alone.  Top QBR in the 4th quarter Jerry, I think his poise is fine.

[MerrittsMustache]

Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:

Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season

http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season

7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
 

Does he also think that any GM who trades two 1st Rounders for Cutler should be relieved of his GM duties and instead by rating QBs for an unknown football website?

[jesmu84]

Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary


Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?

[brandx]

Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary


Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?

I'm hoping GB goes safety as well. Pryor, hopefully, but would take Dix too.

[MerrittsMustache]

Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary

Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?

If the Bears bring in a MLB (possibly re-signing DJ Williams), Bostic would battle McClellin for the SLB spot. If not, Bostic and McClellin will be the MLB and SLB, possibly with McClellin (gulp) in the middle. Also possible that McClellin acts as a "designated blitzer" in obvious passing situations with the D having some different looks up-front, while Bostic plays SLB in the base package. Greene is a special teamer.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Any word of the bears switching to a 3-4. Personally I would rather not see it but it seems the personel fits a 3-4 scheme better.

[DegenerateDish]

A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.

Thats a big boy running a fast time. 100 lbs heavier then me and still runs the 40 faster. These guys are such freak athletes.

[jesmu84]

A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.

If it was Jernigan vs. Donald, would they still take Donald?

[DegenerateDish]

They LOVE Donald, liked him before today, his numbers helped solidify their interest. If Donald is there (barring a trade), they are taking him.

[jesmu84]

They LOVE Donald, liked him before today, his numbers helped solidify their interest. If Donald is there (barring a trade), they are taking him.

Thanks Dish. Any opinion/analysis of Shea moving to LB? Related, any opinion of our rookie LBs and their future?

[DegenerateDish]

Anything Shea gives them at LB would be a plus, but my hopes are low. I can't see him shedding blocks or being successful in coverage. I think he has the athletic ability to get upfield, but my hopes are low.

[MerrittsMustache]

Anything Shea gives them at LB would be a plus, but my hopes are low. I can't see him shedding blocks or being successful in coverage. I think he has the athletic ability to get upfield, but my hopes are low.

The Bears' defensive scheme will be different this up-coming season. There's a good chance that they'll use the occasional 3-man front with Shea blitzing from various spots. I just can't see him becoming an every down LB. It's much easier to move up into a new position than move back.

[jesmu84]

Two updated (2/25, post-combine) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php

Bears: Donald, DT, Pitt in the 1st (was Dennard, CB, last week)
Pack: Nix, NT, ND
Vikes: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (was Barr, DE/OLB, last week)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php

Bears: Dennard, CB, MSU (was Jernigan, DT, last week)
Pack: Mosley, OLB, Bama (was Pryor, S, last week
Vikes: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (was Manziel last week)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M

[wadesworld]

Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji.  Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go?  (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.)  He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations.  Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!

[Spotcheck Billy]

Since Drew Rosenhaus is Shields agent, how sure can we be that he wasn't asking too much?

[hairy worthen]

Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji.  Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go?  (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.)  He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations.  Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!

You are not making any sense. Just because they don't franchise them doesn't mean he wont sign them. If the pass rush and run D were so bad as you say with raji ,why in the hell would you bring more of the same back for more money.

As for shields, he is not franchise worthy salary and they are deep at corner. I hope they bring him back but he is not a 11 mil corner.

My guess is they will sign a couple 2nd tier free agents. Hopefully draft Pryor or nix

[Blackhat]

Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji.  Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go?  (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.)  He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations.  Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!
[/quote

Guy hasn't built any semblance of a defense in his time here.  Sick of watching our D get pushed around.

[wadesworld]

You are not making any sense. Just because they don't franchise them doesn't mean he wont sign them. If the pass rush and run D were so bad as you say with raji ,why in the hell would you bring more of the same back for more money.

As for shields, he is not franchise worthy salary and they are deep at corner. I hope they bring him back but he is not a 11 mil corner.

My guess is they will sign a couple 2nd tier free agents. Hopefully draft Pryor or nix

I guess you missed the part in the parenthesis.

Depth at corner?  Tramon can't tackle anybody and has not been nearly the player he was since the Super Bowl run.  Casey Hayward certainly showed a ton of promise his rookie year, but he also has been off of the field with injury more than he has been on it.  Hyde could be good eventually but he is still young and inexperienced.  House and Bush are both bad.  I would much rather pay Shields since we aren't going to spend the money elsewhere anyways and have him be a solid top 3 corner and move Hyde to safety, because we need 2 new safeties.  Draft one, make Hyde one, and maybe sign a mid-tier free agent if someone is available for a decent price in the even that the rookie or Hyde aren't ready to contribute there.

Since Drew Rosenhaus is Shields agent, how sure can we be that he wasn't asking too much?

I had heard the asking price was around $6.5 million/year.  I am guessing it is higher than that, but if the rumors are there then even a decent amount higher than that is still a fairly reasonable deal, especially given the state of the Packers' current secondary and the cap flexibility the Packers have.

[hairy worthen]

6.5 mil is not shields asking price, it is what the packers have offered to date.

 At the end of the day they will probably end up signing Shields. Hyde and Hayward are better suited for slot corners because of lack of speed, house is ok, servicable. You are wrong about overall corner depth, both the journal and greenbay press said corner is one of the deepest positions. Look for yourself, unless you think mcginn and Silverstien are wrong. Also Tramon played like the old tramon in the second half of the season, he carried the defense at times, again look it up if you don't take my word for it.

[wadesworld]

6.5 mil is not shields asking price, it is what the packers have offered to date.

 At the end of the day they will probably end up signing Shields. Hyde and Hayward are better suited for slot corners because of lack of speed, house is ok, servicable. You are wrong about overall corner depth, both the journal and greenbay press said corner is one of the deepest positions. Look for yourself, unless you think mcginn and Silverstien are wrong. Also Tramon played like the old tramon in the second half of the season, he carried the defense at times, again look it up if you don't take my word for it.

Corner depth may be a strength for the Packers' defense, but that doesn't mean it's a strength compared to what the rest of the league has. The Packers overall corners are well below average. If you compare it to the Packers' defensive line and safeties then I would agree. But that shouldn't be what we compare it to because those 2 groups are the worst in the league, while the corners are "just" bottom 1/3rd in the league.