MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on February 10, 2014, 12:37:00 PM
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so... do we want to talk about michael sam or no?
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so... do we want to talk about michael sam or no?
What's to talk about?
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What's to talk about?
just curious about poster's opinions on how it affects his draft chances, etc.
Vincent Jackson doesn't want to play with him...http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/usf-recruit-tweets-he-cant-play-with-a-dude-who-wants-whats-in-his-pants/
Does anyone want him on their team?
Edit: Merritt is right and I should have clarified. It's not the current NFL WR. It's a high school recruit for USF.
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just curious about poster's opinions on how it affects his draft chances, etc.
Vincent Jackson doesn't want to play with him...http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/usf-recruit-tweets-he-cant-play-with-a-dude-who-wants-whats-in-his-pants/
Does anyone want him on their team?
Just to be clear, that's not current NFL WR Vincent Jackson. That's a high school senior named Vincent Jackson who's headed to USF to play football.
If Michael Sam can play, he'll get drafted and be on an NFL team. 90-95% of his teammates won't care that he's gay. The only time an issue would arise would be if the media can get one of the other 5-10% of his teammates to say something derogatory. The media is definitely going to try. If he's a fringe player, teams won't want to draft/sign him for fear of the backlash they'd face if they cut him. Sam could end up like Tim Tebow where he's talented enough to be on an NFL roster, but the media circus that surrounds him makes him nearly impossible to employ.
I wish him the best.
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He sounds like a packer
Kluwe would play with him
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Hes a good player. They dont give out SEC defensive player of the year to anybody. Thats all NFL management and scouts should care about.
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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/
“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/
"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."
All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?
"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"
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I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.
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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/
“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/
"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."
All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?
"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"
I hate upper management.
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I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.
So you're in favor of making the showers in gyms unisex? Cool!
If not, why not?!?!
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So you're in favor of making the showers in gyms unisex? Cool!
If not, why not?!?!
I don't shower at the gym. Go home and take a shower where there's not nastiness all over the ground and walls.
Never been in an NFL locker room, but I'd have to assume there's enough money to separate showers with dividers. What's the difference if someone who is gay sees you showering vs. someone who is straight seeing you shower? Again, the guy isn't going to make a move on you unless he wants to be beat to a pulp.
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I know this is naive but why would people be uncomfortable playing next to someone who is openly gay? It's not like he's going to make a move on anyone on his team. If he did he'd get his ass kicked by 54 guys and be out of a job in the NFL for the rest of his life. Are people uncomfortable around unattractive females? No. It's sad that this still has to be newsworthy.
It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.
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It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.
I think you're a little off here. It's going to be newsworthy not matter who it is, because it's change from the norm. Especially with football and its associated machismo. Should it be newsworthy, in society today? I don't think so. But it will be.
When you're naming 3 hall of fame players and pointing out they would be playing somewhere if they were openly gay, I think that's a little unfair. How would their careers have altered had they come out before they were drafted? I bet it would have been slightly different.
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I think the Bears should go best defensive player available for the first 4 rounds. I'd prefer a safety in the first.
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When you're naming 3 hall of fame players and pointing out they would be playing somewhere if they were openly gay, I think that's a little unfair. How would their careers have altered had they come out before they were drafted? I bet it would have been slightly different.
So, are you suggesting that if this was Jadeveon Clowney, that he would not be a top 5 pick? Where his career goes from there, who knows? No one ever knows, but if you are a marginal talent/later round pick, a GM may decide the extra attention that has nothing to do with football, may not be worth it. If he is a superior talent, they aren't going to care.
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I think the Bears should go best defensive player available for the first 4 rounds. I'd prefer a safety in the first.
I like Clinton-Dix for the Bears, but d-line is more important than safety. A lack of pass rush really exposed Wright and Conte this past season. Pass rusher and DT need to be the Bears' top priorities. If they can't rush the passer and can't stop the run, it doesn't matter how good the safeties are.
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Never been in an NFL locker room, but I'd have to assume there's enough money to separate showers with dividers. What's the difference if someone who is gay sees you showering vs. someone who is straight seeing you shower? Again, the guy isn't going to make a move on you unless he wants to be beat to a pulp.
Vikings play at the U of Minn for next two years.
So you're ok with unisex shower areas (with dividers) at gyms then right?
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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/09/michael-sam-monday-morning-quarterback/
“We talked about it this week,” the GM said. “First of all, we don’t think he’s a very good player. The reality is he’s an overrated football player in our estimation. Second: He’s going to have expectations about where he should be drafted, and I think he’ll be disappointed. He’s not going to get drafted where he thinks he should. The question you will ask yourself, knowing your team, is, ‘How will drafting him affect your locker room?’ And I am sorry to say where we are at this point in time, I think it’s going to affect most locker rooms. A lot of guys will be uncomfortable. Ten years from now, fine. But today, I think being openly gay is a factor in the locker room.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140209/michael-sam-draft-stock/
"I don't think football is ready for [an openly gay player] just yet," said an NFL player personnel assistant. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game. To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."
All the NFL personnel members interviewed believed that Sam's announcement will cause him to drop in the draft. He was projected between the third and seventh rounds prior to the announcement. The question is: How far will he fall?
"I just know with this going on this is going to drop him down," said a veteran NFL scout. "There's no question about it. It's human nature. Do you want to be the team to quote-unquote 'break that barrier?'"
F.U. and "affecting" your locker room. Just go play football.
F.U. and your "man's man game." This kid --not a man's man, apparently - would kick your sad "player personnel assistant" ass. [What does that title even mean?]
F.U. and using "human nature" as an excuse. Neanderthal nature maybe.
You don't have to like it boys, but this train done left the station; now maybe the other 10, 20 or 50 current NFL gay players will join him (not likely for a while, I'm afraid). Then at least all the haters will know from whom to stay away.
Pathetic. And predictable. And the answer to the rhetorical question at the end of the quote is yes.
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F.U. and "affecting" your locker room. Just go play football.
F.U. and your "man's man game." This kid --not a man's man, apparently - would kick your sad "player personnel assistant" ass. [What does that title even mean?]
F.U. and using "human nature" as an excuse. Neanderthal nature maybe.
You don't have to like it boys, but this train done left the station; now maybe the other 10, 20 or 50 current NFL gay players will join him (not likely for a while, I'm afraid). Then at least all the haters will know from whom to stay away.
Pathetic. And predictable. And the answer to the rhetorical question at the end of the quote is yes.
Players are much more accepting than front offices and coaches. Players don't face the PR hit if the gay player is released from the team. Players don't have to deal with taking disciplinary action against a teammate who uses a gay slur. Players aren't on the hook to pay a guy $20 million after he said he's uncomfortable with his gay teammate. Players just play. For the most part, they don't care if a teammate is gay, straight, a virgin, a chubby chaser, whatever. They care if he can help them win. The suits are the ones who are scared.
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It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.
But he's not a mediocre talent. He was the freaking Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC. That doesn't automatically project to an NFL star, but this isn't some scrub. He was talked about as a 2nd or 3rd round pick and now he's suddenly a fringe prospect. I just saw this morning that CBS Sports dropped him 70 spots in their player rankings. He was a top 75 prospect prior to all of this. If that doesn't prove out that this is a big story, then your head is in the sand.
Phil Emery came out with a pretty fair and positive statement about it all, which is encouraging as a Bears fan. These bigoted GMs coming out and saying he's an overrated or not very good player are an absolute joke.
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Prior to his announcement, he was listed as high as the late second round or as low as the late 4th round. Classic 'tweener'. Not big enough to play defensive end, not fast enough to be a linebacker. Not every tweener morphs into Terrell Suggs. But if he were available in the 4th round, I think he would be worth a gamble. It would not bother me in the slightest if the Lions drafted him in the 4th or 5th round. If he can help the team, take him.
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It isn't newsworthy. If Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis is his day, or Reggie White in his day were openly gay, their teammates wouldn't give a rats ass. When its a mediocre talent like this guy, or the NBa player who's name escapes me, you can manufacture something to talk about. If you're good, there's going to be a place for you in the league.
Ironic you mention Rodgers.
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Ironic you mention Rodgers.
That took longer than I expected.
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That took longer than I expected.
That's what... he said
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If I was checked out by a gay man in the shower, my main concern would be why he had such low standards. I've showered after working out at the Y for years. Statistically speaking, at some point there was a gay guy in the shower room at the same time I was. Stunningly, there have been no incidents
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That took longer than I expected.
Ha! That's what I'm here for...keeping everyone on task! Let the arrows fly!
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Ironic you mention Rodgers.
It would have been interesting if Rodgers had come out prior to the draft, dropped to Round 4, was taken by the Packers and everything else in his career went as is. I wonder if execs would have considered him an outlier or if Sam's announcement wouldn't have had an effect on his draft stock.
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If I was checked out by a gay man in the shower, my main concern would be why he had such low standards. I've showered after working out at the Y for years. Statistically speaking, at some point there was a gay guy in the shower room at the same time I was. Stunningly, there have been no incidents
I used plenty of co-ed showers in Europe. World continues to spin.
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But he's not a mediocre talent. He was the freaking Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC. That doesn't automatically project to an NFL star, but this isn't some scrub. He was talked about as a 2nd or 3rd round pick and now he's suddenly a fringe prospect. I just saw this morning that CBS Sports dropped him 70 spots in their player rankings. He was a top 75 prospect prior to all of this. If that doesn't prove out that this is a big story, then your head is in the sand.
So he's about a 4th round pick. How is that a fringe prospect? Where has anyone said he's some scrub. sEC D player of the year? thats great, and Ty Detmer won a Heisman trophy? Doesnt mean a damn thing in terms of translating to success as an NFl player. Its turned into a story because if he isnt drafted in the first or second round, people will say its becase he's gay, much as you are doing. If he's a first or second round talent, potential pro bowl caliber player, he will be drafted in the first or second round.
Phil Emery came out with a pretty fair and positive statement about it all, which is encouraging as a Bears fan. These bigoted GMs coming out and saying he's an overrated or not very good player are an absolute joke.
Or there is also the distinct possibility, they are giving their honest opinion on his abilities. they cant really win, can they? You obviously have your mind made up, and certainly know more about talent evaluation than they do, so there is only one possible explanation why they would say he isn't that good, but they're the bigoted ones.
The people who "care" or will choose to make something of this are those who want to rush and defend this guy who doesn't really need defending, for self serving reasons - in order to pat themselves on the back and make others see how enlightened they are compared to others of us who simply don't care one way or the other. If the Packers draft him and he can play, I'll be happy. If he can't, I won't. His sexual orientation means absolutely nothing to me.
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So he's about a 4th round pick. How is that a fringe prospect? Where has anyone said he's some scrub. sEC D player of the year? thats great, and Ty Detmer won a Heisman trophy? Doesnt mean a damn thing in terms of translating to success as an NFl player. Its turned into a story because if he isnt drafted in the first or second round, people will say its becase he's gay, much as you are doing. If he's a first or second round talent, potential pro bowl caliber player, he will be drafted in the first or second round.
You called him a mediocre talent, if that means something other than scrub, maybe it was lost in translation. Lumped him with a guy who isn't in the NBA anymore cause he's not good enough, and never was any good to begin with. People suddenly rating him a 5-7th round pick (which is easily in "potentially undrafted" realm) would make him a fringe prospect. Would you have called Ty Detmer a "mediocre talent"?
Or there is also the distinct possibility, they are giving their honest opinion on his abilities. they cant really win, can they? You obviously have your mind made up, and certainly know more about talent evaluation than they do, so there is only one possible explanation why they would say he isn't that good, but they're the bigoted ones.
I don't think he's a top 2 round pick, and if he falls to the 4th, I don't think "fair" people would be up in arms, but if suddenly he's not drafted or has slide to the very last day, then all of a sudden, it makes you go "hmm". You look at any of the pre-draft writeups of him leading up to the announcement and he was spoken very highly of by scouts. Undersized, projected to move to an OLB, but not an uncommon situation. His track record spoke for himself. Now all of a sudden the quotes are "not a very good football player" "very overrated". This about a guy who won awards, not someone who is projected high based on intangibles or potential. It smacks of making excuses on why to pass on a guy.
I haven't made up my mind on anything except for the fact that people who think this isn't a big story aren't paying attention to the rumblings from front offices in response, and that is what I was referring to in those quotes. Its not a big deal on a personal level, but its significance in the NFL landscape is still very much up for debate.
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So he's about a 4th round pick. How is that a fringe prospect? Where has anyone said he's some scrub. sEC D player of the year? thats great, and Ty Detmer won a Heisman trophy? Doesnt mean a damn thing in terms of translating to success as an NFl player. Its turned into a story because if he isnt drafted in the first or second round, people will say its becase he's gay, much as you are doing. If he's a first or second round talent, potential pro bowl caliber player, he will be drafted in the first or second round.
Navin - I applaud you for not letting his comments affect you and your opinion of him at all. I think the media will make more of this than they should. But I also think it will 100% play into the minds of GMs. You just stated that he's about a 4th round pick. However, he was a top 75 pick before coming out, and suddenly dropped 70 spots? That's not a coincidence. It just can't be a coincidence.
Also, wasn't Ty Detmer a first round pick? I fail to see your argument there. Sam was obviously never a first round pick, but he was mostly a top 75 pick before the comments. Further saying if he's a first or second round talent means he's a potential pro bowl caliber player and that means he'll be drafted in the 1st or 2nd? That's a load of bullocks. I know you have a good amount of NFL knowledge. Lots of first and second round picks aren't pro bowl caliber. And lots of pro bowl caliber aren't drafted in the 1st and 2nd. Lots of hits and misses across the draft and their realized or unrealized NFL success.
We can't know his NFL success yet. And if he's drafted, we can't make any judgement on where he's chosen relative to his possible NFL success. What we can say is that since he came out, his draft status has taken at least a mild hit.
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Earl Bennett is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. Just sayin.
I don't care who Sam wants to have intercourse with. He's a tweener, jacked up his sack total in garbage time against inferior opponents (look it up). He's a marginal prospect, mid round pick.
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Also, wasn't Ty Detmer a first round pick? I fail to see your argument there.
Packers drafted him in the 9th round, which is my point...college awards, whether Heisman or SEC defensive player of the year, don't mean anything in terms of predicting success as an NFL player, as someone earlier tried to argue (somewhat).
Further saying if he's a first or second round talent means he's a potential pro bowl caliber player and that means he'll be drafted in the 1st or 2nd? That's a load of bullocks. I know you have a good amount of NFL knowledge. Lots of first and second round picks aren't pro bowl caliber. And lots of pro bowl caliber aren't drafted in the 1st and 2nd. Lots of hits and misses across the draft and their realized or unrealized NFL success.
Of course that's true. What I believe I said was, "1st or 2nd round talent and potential pro bowl caliber player." I guess I thought in the eyes of NFL scouts and GMs was implied. Of course they don't all work out, but every GM who has ever made a pick in the first round, thinks he's taking a potential pro bowl player.
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Earl Bennett is the all time leader in receptions in the SEC. Just sayin.
I don't care who Sam wants to have intercourse with. He's a tweener, jacked up his sack total in garbage time against inferior opponents (look it up). He's a marginal prospect, mid round pick.
Bears should draft him to replace McClellan. :)
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Bears should draft him to replace McClellan. :)
No more undersized DE for the Bears thanks. However that being said if he is available in the 3rd-4th round range I would love the bears to draft him as an OLB. Thats an area that needs help even if Briggs is in the lineup.
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Bears should draft him to replace McClellan. :)
When I saw Sam's draft bio, first player I thought of was John Theiry.
McClellin isn't too far off though.
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I just saw this morning that CBS Sports dropped him 70 spots in their player rankings. He was a top 75 prospect prior to all of this. If that doesn't prove out that this is a big story, then your head is in the sand.
BTW, let's not let facts get in the way of a juicy narrative. Were he the only player to move in those rankings, there might be something to it. This from CBS...
NFLDraftScout.com has Sam ranked as the No. 110 overall prospect. An initial drop to 160 from 90 on Monday morning was part of a comprehensive adjustment in the rankings leading up to next week's scouting combine that generated movement among hundreds of prospects. In all, 65 of the top 350 prospects were affected by the rankings update...
To suggest that this drop occurred overnight because of his announcement is ludicrous. of course it would also require that NFL Draft Scout and CBS are part of the bigoted GM class. BTW, they are prospect rankings, not a mock draft. They rate players as football players, not where they expect them to be drafted. If anything, it is completely counter to the argument that his drop is a result of his announcement.
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BTW, let's not let facts get in the way of a juicy narrative. Were he the only player to move in those rankings, there might be something to it. This from CBS...
NFLDraftScout.com has Sam ranked as the No. 110 overall prospect. An initial drop to 160 from 90 on Monday morning was part of a comprehensive adjustment in the rankings leading up to next week's scouting combine that generated movement among hundreds of prospects. In all, 65 of the top 350 prospects were affected by the rankings update...
To suggest that this drop occurred overnight because of his announcement is ludicrous. of course it would also require that NFL Draft Scout and CBS are part of the bigoted GM class. BTW, they are prospect rankings, not a mock draft. They rate players as football players, not where they expect them to be drafted. If anything, it is completely counter to the argument that his drop is a result of his announcement.
I saw that this afternoon and thought less that those websites are in on some "conspiracy" and more that their rankings have some influence from scouts or front office staff. Moreso that they are rankings and not some mock draft from Bleacher Report.
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http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10429956
Good on Lombardi. Especially back then
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is being gay a sport or a competition?
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is being gay a sport or a competition?
There are no judges, and I am not sure if anyone plays defense.
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There are no judges, and I am not sure if anyone plays defense.
it sounds like there are too many judges about Sam
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Dan Bernstein's distorted history...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02/11/bernstein-ten-months-have-mattered/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02/11/bernstein-ten-months-have-mattered/)
And it was why I was steeling myself yesterday, preparing for another trip in the sports-radio time machine, back to the 1950s again, where we could hear misguided tropes of manliness, masculinity and toughness spouted by the angry and unenlightened as they hid behind their bibles and fake names.
He even uses the word unenlightened. His behavior on that day was embarrassing. It's been discussed here before, and I know many agree. He was the one primarily stoking the flames. People didn't call to condemn Jason Collins, they called to defend themselves, against Bernstein acting like a jag wad - as I said earlier in the thread, the people making anything of this, or Collins are the ones who are doing so in order to feel better about themselves and show the world how enlightened they are. The "only" condemning going on is by those simply anticipating or expecting wholesale bigotry - creating it, so they can condemn it. Of course there are exceptions, but this whole thing is one big yawn to most, except to people like Bernstein who see it simply as an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.
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it sounds like there are too many judges about Sam
Funny, I've seen very few.
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Dan Bernstein's distorted history...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02/11/bernstein-ten-months-have-mattered/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02/11/bernstein-ten-months-have-mattered/)
And it was why I was steeling myself yesterday, preparing for another trip in the sports-radio time machine, back to the 1950s again, where we could hear misguided tropes of manliness, masculinity and toughness spouted by the angry and unenlightened as they hid behind their bibles and fake names.
He even uses the word unenlightened. His behavior on that day was embarrassing. It's been discussed here before, and I know many agree. He was the one primarily stoking the flames. People didn't call to condemn Jason Collins, they called to defend themselves, against Bernstein acting like a jag wad - as I said earlier in the thread, the people making anything of this, or Collins are the ones who are doing so in order to feel better about themselves and show the world how enlightened they are. The "only" condemning going on is by those simply anticipating or expecting wholesale bigotry - creating it, so they can condemn it. Of course there are exceptions, but this whole thing is one big yawn to most, except to people like Bernstein who see it simply as an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.
Dan Berstein is a very smart man. A good wordsmith, someone who can analyze quickly and think well on his feet. He is also a mean spirited, self important bully whose own intolerance is as off the charts as any of the bozos he mocks on his show. He can be funny (clever) but even when I agree with him (which is much more often than not) I am put off by his lack of humanity. He hates people at an alarming rate, and for reasons that range from the understandable to the trivial. Just a bad guy.
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Dan Berstein is a very smart man. A good wordsmith, someone who can analyze quickly and think well on his feet. He is also a mean spirited, self important bully whose own intolerance is as off the charts as any of the bozos he mocks on his show. He can be funny (clever) but even when I agree with him (which is much more often than not) I am put off by his lack of humanity. He hates people at an alarming rate, and for reasons that range from the understandable to the trivial. Just a bad guy.
Good analysis. I listen to the show a lot and I've always felt the same way. I would say more that he has an inflated opinion of himself and shows more disrespect toward people than hatred
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Dan Berstein is a very smart man. A good wordsmith, someone who can analyze quickly and think well on his feet. He is also a mean spirited, self important bully whose own intolerance is as off the charts as any of the bozos he mocks on his show. He can be funny (clever) but even when I agree with him (which is much more often than not) I am put off by his lack of humanity. He hates people at an alarming rate, and for reasons that range from the understandable to the trivial. Just a bad guy.
You had me until the last sentence. Bernstein can treat people poorly but I don't think he's necessarily "just a bad guy." He's a narcissist and, as you said, he's a very intelligent man, but I get the impression that he's insecure about it. He views those who disagree with him as people questioning his intelligence which leads him to speak louder and become more confrontational, often not even allowing others to respond. He can also be a kind and charitable man, but that is often overshadowed by his penchant for bullying callers.
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You had me until the last sentence. Bernstein can treat people poorly but I don't think he's necessarily "just a bad guy." He's a narcissist and, as you said, he's a very intelligent man, but I get the impression that he's insecure about it. He views those who disagree with him as people questioning his intelligence which leads him to speak louder and become more confrontational, often not even allowing others to respond. He can also be a kind and charitable man, but that is often overshadowed by his penchant for bullying callers.
Yeah, Stache, probably should have omitted "just a bad guy" - that was me being as intolerant as he can be. But I really hate it when he (for sport) just eviscerates some guy who is not very bright. Not funny, not entertaining, borderline cruel. Character revealed.
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Yeah, Stache, probably should have omitted "just a bad guy" - that was me being as intolerant as he can be. But I really hate it when he (for sport) just eviscerates some guy who is not very bright. Not funny, not entertaining, borderline cruel. Character revealed.
Lennys slightly modified description is spot on.
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I like humor...
(http://i.imgur.com/gDpLyZT.jpg)
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The "only" condemning going on is by those simply anticipating or expecting wholesale bigotry - creating it, so they can condemn it. Of course there are exceptions, but this whole thing is one big yawn to most, except to people like Bernstein who see it simply as an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.
I'm not trying to attack your opinion, or be incindiary, but do you honestly believe this isn't a big deal at all? That homosexuality and gay rights are such a widely accepted and uncontroversial topic that this first openly gay player, in what's been viewed as the most masculine and manly of sports, doesn't move the needle at all. The sentiment of it not being a big deal to you personally I understand, and respect cause its an open-minded, accepting, and modern viewpoint, but to act like its not still contentious for a large portion of the country is a bit near sighted, I imagine if you did a straw poll on opinions around Sam's hometown outside Houston vs NYC, you'd see a very different result. Sam's own Dad doesn't approve of his "lifestyle"
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I'm not trying to attack your opinion, or be incindiary, but do you honestly believe this isn't a big deal at all? That homosexuality and gay rights are such a widely accepted and uncontroversial topic that this first openly gay player, in what's been viewed as the most masculine and manly of sports, doesn't move the needle at all. The sentiment of it not being a big deal to you personally I understand, and respect cause its an open-minded, accepting, and modern viewpoint, but to act like its not still contentious for a large portion of the country is a bit near sighted, I imagine if you did a straw poll on opinions around Sam's hometown outside Houston vs NYC, you'd see a very different result. Sam's own Dad doesn't approve of his "lifestyle"
I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.
He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.
I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.
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I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.
He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.
I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.
Amen NRJ.
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Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:
Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season
http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season
7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
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I sort of do feel that way. I understand the are people out there who see this as some sort of problem, I'm not an idiot, but I think the reality is that folks like you, me and most here don't pay any attention/don't care what a guy like his Dad thinks (i admittedly don't know specifically what you are referring to) any more than we care that the dude is gay.
He's gonna face some stuff for sure, but I guess my point is, if the people who are currently talking about it...largely pre-emptively vilifying all the 'bigots' who are going to torment this guy, and defending him against the largely non-existent venom being thrown his way, like the Bernstein example I cited, or claiming in mid-Feb that if he doesn't get drafted in the early rounds, its because hes gay, with really no evidence to support it, would cut that crap, there would literally be nothing to talk about. I have seen very, very few people coming out against this guy because he's gay. Fact is, his teammates, coaches and NFL scouts already knew, and he is certainly not going to be the only one.
I think I speak for a whole lot of people when I say I have neither the time or energy to worry about such things. Perhaps I am more 'enlightened' than I give myself credit for, but I don't think so.
Fair points, and I don't entirely disagree with you. As far as his Dad, there was an article that said he basically got up and left a family party when he found out cause he was upset and then later was quoted saying "I don't want my grandkids growing up in that kind of environment. I'm an old-school, man and woman kind of guy." Yeesh.
Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:
Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season
http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season
7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
I'll save the easy jokes about Angelo's terrible track record at evaluating QBs and QB talent, but I don't see alot I disagree with on his list. I think he was a bit too high on Andrew Luck and Wilson, and a bit too low on Nick Foles.
Cutler, I agree with half of it. He locked onto Marshall due to lack of confidence in the past, but I think its more that he goes into a play with a set idea of how its going to play out. And that can be an issue. His inconsistency in the "clutch" has been proven to be incorrect, especially if this is just the 2013 season alone. Top QBR in the 4th quarter Jerry, I think his poise is fine.
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Thought this was interesting, especially what he had to say about Cutler:
Former Bears GM Jerry Angelo Rates Every Quarterback from the 2013 NFL Season
http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/former-bears-gm-jerry-angelo-rates-every-quarterback-2013-nfl-season
7.9 Jay Cutler Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one.
Does he also think that any GM who trades two 1st Rounders for Cutler should be relieved of his GM duties and instead by rating QBs for an unknown football website?
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Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary
Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?
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Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary
Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?
I'm hoping GB goes safety as well. Pryor, hopefully, but would take Dix too.
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Talk lately of Jernigan possibly falling to the Bears. Would love to have him, but I just feel we need more help in the secondary
Anyone, Dish especially, have any analysis on McClellin moving to SLB? And where does this leave our two rookie LBs from last season?
If the Bears bring in a MLB (possibly re-signing DJ Williams), Bostic would battle McClellin for the SLB spot. If not, Bostic and McClellin will be the MLB and SLB, possibly with McClellin (gulp) in the middle. Also possible that McClellin acts as a "designated blitzer" in obvious passing situations with the D having some different looks up-front, while Bostic plays SLB in the base package. Greene is a special teamer.
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Any word of the bears switching to a 3-4. Personally I would rather not see it but it seems the personel fits a 3-4 scheme better.
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A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.
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A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.
Thats a big boy running a fast time. 100 lbs heavier then me and still runs the 40 faster. These guys are such freak athletes.
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A little birdie told me there is no way Aaron Donald slides past the Bears.
If it was Jernigan vs. Donald, would they still take Donald?
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They LOVE Donald, liked him before today, his numbers helped solidify their interest. If Donald is there (barring a trade), they are taking him.
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They LOVE Donald, liked him before today, his numbers helped solidify their interest. If Donald is there (barring a trade), they are taking him.
Thanks Dish. Any opinion/analysis of Shea moving to LB? Related, any opinion of our rookie LBs and their future?
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Anything Shea gives them at LB would be a plus, but my hopes are low. I can't see him shedding blocks or being successful in coverage. I think he has the athletic ability to get upfield, but my hopes are low.
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Anything Shea gives them at LB would be a plus, but my hopes are low. I can't see him shedding blocks or being successful in coverage. I think he has the athletic ability to get upfield, but my hopes are low.
The Bears' defensive scheme will be different this up-coming season. There's a good chance that they'll use the occasional 3-man front with Shea blitzing from various spots. I just can't see him becoming an every down LB. It's much easier to move up into a new position than move back.
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Two updated (2/25, post-combine) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Bears: Donald, DT, Pitt in the 1st (was Dennard, CB, last week)
Pack: Nix, NT, ND
Vikes: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (was Barr, DE/OLB, last week)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Bears: Dennard, CB, MSU (was Jernigan, DT, last week)
Pack: Mosley, OLB, Bama (was Pryor, S, last week
Vikes: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (was Manziel last week)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M
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Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji. Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go? (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.) He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations. Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!
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Since Drew Rosenhaus is Shields agent, how sure can we be that he wasn't asking too much?
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Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji. Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go? (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.) He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations. Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!
You are not making any sense. Just because they don't franchise them doesn't mean he wont sign them. If the pass rush and run D were so bad as you say with raji ,why in the hell would you bring more of the same back for more money.
As for shields, he is not franchise worthy salary and they are deep at corner. I hope they bring him back but he is not a 11 mil corner.
My guess is they will sign a couple 2nd tier free agents. Hopefully draft Pryor or nix
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Ted Thompson doing Ted Thompson things and not franchising either Shields or Raji. Our pass rush, run defense, and secondary were so strong with those guys that why the hell not let them both go? (For the record, I certainly understand Raji, but from what I've heard Shields was not asking for an unfair amount at all, and again, the secondary is about as bad as you can get.) He has over $33 million in cap space to use and we all know he will not sign any free agents from other organizations. Bring on the 20 or so undrafted free agents baby!
[/quote
Guy hasn't built any semblance of a defense in his time here. Sick of watching our D get pushed around.
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You are not making any sense. Just because they don't franchise them doesn't mean he wont sign them. If the pass rush and run D were so bad as you say with raji ,why in the hell would you bring more of the same back for more money.
As for shields, he is not franchise worthy salary and they are deep at corner. I hope they bring him back but he is not a 11 mil corner.
My guess is they will sign a couple 2nd tier free agents. Hopefully draft Pryor or nix
I guess you missed the part in the parenthesis.
Depth at corner? Tramon can't tackle anybody and has not been nearly the player he was since the Super Bowl run. Casey Hayward certainly showed a ton of promise his rookie year, but he also has been off of the field with injury more than he has been on it. Hyde could be good eventually but he is still young and inexperienced. House and Bush are both bad. I would much rather pay Shields since we aren't going to spend the money elsewhere anyways and have him be a solid top 3 corner and move Hyde to safety, because we need 2 new safeties. Draft one, make Hyde one, and maybe sign a mid-tier free agent if someone is available for a decent price in the even that the rookie or Hyde aren't ready to contribute there.
Since Drew Rosenhaus is Shields agent, how sure can we be that he wasn't asking too much?
I had heard the asking price was around $6.5 million/year. I am guessing it is higher than that, but if the rumors are there then even a decent amount higher than that is still a fairly reasonable deal, especially given the state of the Packers' current secondary and the cap flexibility the Packers have.
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6.5 mil is not shields asking price, it is what the packers have offered to date.
At the end of the day they will probably end up signing Shields. Hyde and Hayward are better suited for slot corners because of lack of speed, house is ok, servicable. You are wrong about overall corner depth, both the journal and greenbay press said corner is one of the deepest positions. Look for yourself, unless you think mcginn and Silverstien are wrong. Also Tramon played like the old tramon in the second half of the season, he carried the defense at times, again look it up if you don't take my word for it.
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6.5 mil is not shields asking price, it is what the packers have offered to date.
At the end of the day they will probably end up signing Shields. Hyde and Hayward are better suited for slot corners because of lack of speed, house is ok, servicable. You are wrong about overall corner depth, both the journal and greenbay press said corner is one of the deepest positions. Look for yourself, unless you think mcginn and Silverstien are wrong. Also Tramon played like the old tramon in the second half of the season, he carried the defense at times, again look it up if you don't take my word for it.
Corner depth may be a strength for the Packers' defense, but that doesn't mean it's a strength compared to what the rest of the league has. The Packers overall corners are well below average. If you compare it to the Packers' defensive line and safeties then I would agree. But that shouldn't be what we compare it to because those 2 groups are the worst in the league, while the corners are "just" bottom 1/3rd in the league.
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Been meaning to post this, but the projected increases in the cap for this year and more importantly the next seasons after is huge, especially starting next year.
From a Bears standpoint, financially speaking, it makes the Cutler/Jennings/Slauson deals much easier, especially the way those contracts were structured to help provide the Bears with added cap relief if need be.
Also allows them to re-sign Alshon without taking a hit, and gives them flexibility with Marshall's deal upcoming.
I was surprised the Pack let Shields walk, but I trust Thompson knows what he's doing.
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Two updated (3/5) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Bortles; 2. Falcons (trade) - Clowney; 3. Jags - Manziel
Vikes: Bridgewater, QB, Louisville (was Gilbert, CB, last update)
Lions: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (was Evans, WR, update)
Bears: Donald, DT, Pitt in the 1st (no change)
Pack: Hageman, DE/DT, Minn (was Nix, NT, last update)
Round 2
Vikes: Su'a-Filo, G, UCLE (was Mettenberger, QB, last update)
Lions: Ward, S, NIU (no change)
Bears: Roberson, CB, Florida (was Breeland, CB, last update)
Pack: Murphy, DE/OLB, Stanford (no change)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Robinson; 3. Jags - Bortles
Vikes: Manziel, QB, TxA&M (was Gilbert, CB last update)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M (no change)
Bears: Hageman, DE/DT, Minn (was Dennard, CB, last update)
Pack: Clinton-Dix, S, Bama (was Mosley, OLB, last update)
Round 2
Vikes: Joyner, CB, FSU (was Carr, QB, last update)
Lions: Roberson, CB, Florida (was Cooks, WR, last update)
Bears: Roby, CB, OSU (was Ferguson, DT, last update)
Pack: Murphy, OLB, Stanford (was Bailey, S, last update)
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I dont get the CB projections for the Bears. Safety is a much bigger concern then CB...
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I dont get the CB projections for the Bears. Safety is a much bigger concern then CB...
I think it has something to do with the Bears not seemingly having placed much importance on the position in the last few seasons
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I think it has something to do with the Bears not seemingly having placed much importance on the position in the last few seasons
I mean, Jennings has turned out more then alright and hes still rather young.
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I mean, Jennings has turned out more then alright and hes still rather young.
Maybe I didn't say it. The Bears haven't seemed to place much emphasis on safety in the last few seasons. So, when looking at drafting someone in the secondary, the "Experts" are expecting a CB to be drafted over a S.
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Bye Devin Hester :'( For as much as people shat on him for being a terrible WR (which he was) he was still a great player and a great teammate for the Bears. Gonna be sad to see him go and another one of my Bears jerseys becomes obsolete.
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The Packers are in desperate need of interior defensive lineman, and could really use someone not named Nick Perry opposite Clay "I'm always hurt" Matthews.
I'm not worried about the DB situation since having a better DL and any sort of pass rush would help that problem immensely.
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The Packers are in desperate need of interior defensive lineman, and could really use someone not named Nick Perry opposite Clay "I'm always hurt" Matthews.
I'm not worried about the DB situation since having a better DL and any sort of pass rush would help that problem immensely.
That'll happen when you use that many steroids ;)
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I mean, Jennings has turned out more then alright and hes still rather young.
31 this season - not young at all by NFL standards. Plus Tillman is almost certainly gone. Bowman will be 30 this season. Nothing else on the roster.
Sounds like they CBs to me.
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If this rumored 1 yr/$4 million deal for Raji is true, I really like it for both sides.
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If this rumored 1 yr/$4 million deal for Raji is true, I really like it for both sides.
One more year to prove himself, like it.
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It would be a good deal. He has been invisible for the last two years, though, but DLineman don't grow on trees.
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If this rumored 1 yr/$4 million deal for Raji is true, I really like it for both sides.
That would be a great deal for both teams. Very low risk for the Packers. Still wish we were resigning Shields though. Also heard Raji may not be close to accepting the deal.
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31 this season - not young at all by NFL standards. Plus Tillman is almost certainly gone. Bowman will be 30 this season. Nothing else on the roster.
Sounds like they CBs to me.
Why did I think Jennings was like 27?
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Packers lock up Shields. Sounded like Shields was a goner and Raji would be back. Now it may be the reverse, which I like (although Raji still may wind up back with the Packers). 4 years $39 million which is pretty high, but $12.5 million of that is his signing bonus, and with the Packers well below the cap right now that works out well.
Draft a safety first round and some d linemen and hopefully the defense stays healthy.
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Packers lock up Shields. Sounded like Shields was a goner and Raji would be back. Now it may be the reverse, which I like (although Raji still may wind up back with the Packers). 4 years $39 million which is pretty high, but $12.5 million of that is his signing bonus, and with the Packers well below the cap right now that works out well.
Draft a safety first round and some d linemen and hopefully the defense stays healthy.
Glad to see it. I'm pretty sure this will be Tramon's last year with the Pack, so couldn't afford to lose Shields.
I really don't care if they re-sign Raji. Boyd will be a better fit next year.
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waste of money on shields, waste of money if they resign raji.
earn it.
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I like the Shields deal a lot. Pack have ton of cap space, it's essentially a two year, $15 million dollar deal. Odd that the Pack backloaded it, only odd because they typically front load. Makes a ton of sense though, because if Shields plays well, they might squeeze him in without a restructure in 2016, coinciding with significant cap increases. Dead money last two years would only be slightly over $3 mil per year.
Really solid corner, very good re-sign.
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Can't complain about the Shields deal at all.
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I'll say this now, if the Bears sign Bennett, it will be a bad deal for both sides. Bennett isn't bad, but he's going to get paid like he's great.
Would much rather see the Bears go after Ward or Bryd, who are upper tier safeties. That's a huge need. If you're going to spend, ROI will be much greater on those guys.
I don't see the point of signing Bennett at the price point he'll command, when you can keep Peppers for another year. Why push out Bennett's cap hit into the future when you can rid yourself of Peppers next season, at similar production, less dead money.
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Packers lock up Shields. Sounded like Shields was a goner and Raji would be back. Now it may be the reverse, which I like (although Raji still may wind up back with the Packers). 4 years $39 million which is pretty high, but $12.5 million of that is his signing bonus, and with the Packers well below the cap right now that works out well.
Draft a safety first round and some d linemen and hopefully the defense stays healthy.
Signed shields like I said although he commanded more money than I thought. TT will pay his own. Signing raji is now up to raji. I would like to see him walk and TT spend the money on ward or Byrd and then draft a d lineman or inside backer. Also would like to see them make an offer for ware from Dallas.
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I'll say this now, if the Bears sign Bennett, it will be a bad deal for both sides. Bennett isn't bad, but he's going to get paid like he's great.
Would much rather see the Bears go after Ward or Bryd, who are upper tier safeties. That's a huge need. If you're going to spend, ROI will be much greater on those guys.
I don't see the point of signing Bennett at the price point he'll command, when you can keep Peppers for another year. Why push out Bennett's cap hit into the future when you can rid yourself of Peppers next season, at similar production, less dead money.
Dish,
Would you rather see the bears land Bennett or Michael Johnson? I'd rather see them get a strong pass rusher and either draft a safety or sign a whitner, Malcolm Jenkins, or Bethea from that "2nd tier" of FA safeties.
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Given the cash, I want nothing to do with either. The deal the Vikes gave Griffen is crazy, both Bennett and Johnson are better/more productive. Both will get at least $25 mil guaranteed, no thanks.
The Bears need all kinds of help, but they aren't one defensive player away from a run. Signing Johnson/Bennett would be foolish. If they're spending, go after a top safety, much better allocation of cap space.
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Defense can be molded to a entirely different beast in a short time. Case in point, the Saints, who were historically, the worst defense in history two seasons ago. They were borderline Top 10 in just about every single category last year. In one year, their defense went from laughable to very respectable. Draft some CBs, Safeties, and DL. The draft should be all focused on the defense.
Sounds good, but look at Green Bay. They've been trying to put their defense back together for 3 years. They've drafted a ton of players on that side, and it has not accomplished much for them yet. Gotta find playmakers on that side of the ball, not just guys you hope you can plug in. Much easier said than done, it it takes some time.
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There's no doubt Emery will go hard in the draft on defense but watching the Bear's pass rush this past season was frustrating and in the Tampa 2 scheme you can't have the QB sitting back there with all kinds of time running essentially a 7 on 7 drill.
...and the run defense was terrible but I think alot of that was poor discipline and technique by the young LB corpse.
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The Packers woes are their own. The Bears are historically known as a defensive team. I won't be suprised if they're a top 10 unit next year.
History doesn't put talent on the field. If it did, explain last season when they were a historically bad defensive team. New GM, new coach...their historical reputation couldn't be more meaningless. It'd be nice if it were that easy though.
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The Packers woes are their own. The Bears are historically known as a defensive team. I won't be suprised if they're a top 10 unit next year.
Why????? Are you saying scheme and players don't matter?
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I'll say this now, if the Bears sign Bennett, it will be a bad deal for both sides. Bennett isn't bad, but he's going to get paid like he's great.
Would much rather see the Bears go after Ward or Bryd, who are upper tier safeties. That's a huge need. If you're going to spend, ROI will be much greater on those guys.
I don't see the point of signing Bennett at the price point he'll command, when you can keep Peppers for another year. Why push out Bennett's cap hit into the future when you can rid yourself of Peppers next season, at similar production, less dead money.
aw shucks. the bears missed out on Bennett.
100% agree with you, Dish.
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There is no way the Bears are a top 10 defense this coming season, that is absurd. History means squat, why would that even matter?
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Just saw that after the Shields deal the Packers have $29.27 million of cap space to work with. That is a lot of money to use. Let's see if Ted actually makes a move or 2 in free agency.
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http://fansided.com/2014/03/11/nfl-rumors-jared-allen-wants-sign-with-green-bay-packers/#!zlEEJ
Don't see Teddy spending money on an old defensive end who may not necessarily be the greatest fit for a 3-4 defense, but it would be interesting.
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Just saw that after the Shields deal the Packers have $29.27 million of cap space to work with. That is a lot of money to use. Let's see if Ted actually makes a move or 2 in free agency.
DeMarcus Ware come on down!
I know he's been banged up, but just released by the Cowboys. If he can play, man would he fill a need. That said, exactly the type of move Ted Thompson does not make.
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I'm ok with the Houston deal, don't love it, sorta ok with it. Essentially 3 years, $21 mil, more thAn he is worth, Bears paying for a need.
He's very good against the run at least.
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DeMarcus Ware come on down!
I know he's been banged up, but just released by the Cowboys. If he can play, man would he fill a need. That said, exactly the type of move Ted Thompson does not make.
Thats what I am saying,
TT may pull the trigger if he can get the guy for 2 or 3 years for a reasonable price. Maybe a deal heavy with incentives. Woodson was close to 30 when they signed him.
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I'm ok with the Houston deal, don't love it, sorta ok with it. Essentially 3 years, $21 mil, more thAn he is worth, Bears paying for a need.
He's very good against the run at least.
Yea, fills a need. Bears can focus on drafting in the secondary now. Im ok with a Wooton and Houston at the ends.
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The saints went from worst in history, to top 10.
I like their chances.
I need to drink your orange/blue Kool-Aid.
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Yea, fills a need. Bears can focus on drafting in the secondary now. Im ok with a Wooton and Houston at the ends.
I think Wooten is expected not to return.
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was Peppers cut or not?
been looking and haven't seen it confirmed
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Two updated (3/11) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Bortles; 2. Falcons (trade) - Clowney; 3. Jags - Mack
Vikes: Manziel, QB, TA&M(was Bridgewater, QB, Louisville)
Lions: Gilbert, CB, OKSt (no change)
Bears: Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama (was Donald, DT, Pitt)
Pack: Hageman, DE/DT, Minn (no change)
Round 2
Vikes: Su'a-Filo, G, UCLE (no change)
Lions: Matthews, WR, Vandy (was Ward, S, NIU)
Bears: Roberson, CB, Florida (no change)
Pack: Murphy, DE/OLB, Stanford (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Loston, S, LSU
Lions: Brooks, S, FSU
Bears: Johnson, DT, LSU
Pack: Boston, S, UNC
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Robinson; 3. Jags - Bortles
Vikes: Manziel, QB, TxA&M (no change)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M (no change)
Bears: Jernigan, DT, FSU (was Hageman, DT, Minn)
Pack: Shazier, OLB, OSU (was Clinton-Dix, S, Bama)
Round 2
Vikes: Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA (was Joyner, CB, FSU)
Lions: Adams, WR, Fresno (was Roberson, CB, Florida)
Bears: Easley, DE, Florida (was Roby, CB, OSU)
Pack: Bailey, S, USC (was Murphy, OLB, Stanford)
Round 3
Vikes: Martin, DE, UNC
Lions: Lawrence, OLB/DE, Boiset
Bears: Ward, S, NIU
Pack: McCullers, DT, Tenn
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Blaine Gabbert - from top 10 pick to 6th round. nice career
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I'll say this now, if the Bears sign Bennett, it will be a bad deal for both sides. Bennett isn't bad, but he's going to get paid like he's great.
Would much rather see the Bears go after Ward or Bryd, who are upper tier safeties. That's a huge need. If you're going to spend, ROI will be much greater on those guys.
I don't see the point of signing Bennett at the price point he'll command, when you can keep Peppers for another year. Why push out Bennett's cap hit into the future when you can rid yourself of Peppers next season, at similar production, less dead money.
Byrd just upped with the Saints. crap.
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That's a ton of coin for Byrd. I liked him, but not at 9 mil per, 28 guaranteed, crazy numbers.
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That's a ton of coin for Byrd. I liked him, but not at 9 mil per, 28 guaranteed, crazy numbers.
We knew it would happen with the bigger cap number.
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That's a ton of coin for Byrd. I liked him, but not at 9 mil per, 28 guaranteed, crazy numbers.
Oh come on Dish.. you don't go from worst in history to top 10 without dropping some serious coin ;)
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was Peppers cut or not?
been looking and haven't seen it confirmed
Bears cut Peppers today.
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I know no one wins Super Bowls today, but man did the Broncos clean up. If they have space to sign Ware still, wow.
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I know no one wins Super Bowls today, but man did the Broncos clean up. If they have space to sign Ware still, wow.
I know they signed Ward and Caldwell, but can't find much else out there. What are you seeing?
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Talib signed with Denver late tonight.
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Talib signed with Denver late tonight.
Lot of cash tied up in that secondary. Horse face wants another ring but I think Manning starts to decline quickly.
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The saints went from worst in history, to top 10.
I like their chances.
Right, because historically the Bears have been a great defense so of course automatically the football gods will grant them a top 10 defense next season.
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I know no one wins Super Bowls today, but man did the Broncos clean up. If they have space to sign Ware still, wow.
There no way they can still sign Ware, is there?
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Bears signed M.D. Jennings.
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Bears signed M.D. Jennings.
I thought they wanted to get better at safety?
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I thought they wanted to get better at safety?
(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=d5D8cDGKE5Wo_M&tbnid=hAGGOdnAkqpIUM:&ved=0CAgQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsports.yahoo.com%2Fnfl%2Fplayers%2F24880%2F&ei=CpwgU_LDAebXyAHkqYG4DA&psig=AFQjCNFLkl2qa7CwvbulSoDH0jI1S3ZUrQ&ust=1394732426157840)
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Lot of cash tied up in that secondary. Horse face wants another ring but I think Manning starts to decline quickly.
He's only playing for another 1-3 seasons. He can decline a lot this year and still be better than 95% of QBs in the NFL.
Denver has room to sign Ware and not much else this year.
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Bears signed M.D. Jennings.
Well, that's a win for the Packers!
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There no way they can still sign Ware, is there?
Apparently so. Yikes!
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Apparently so. Yikes!
Wow, I know they had cap room to spend, can't wait to see these contract structures.
One thing is for certain, their window is 2 years before they are in cap hell.
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Wow, I know they had cap room to spend, can't wait to see these contract structures.
One thing is for certain, their window is 2 years before they are in cap hell.
3 years, 30 million.
13 mill gurant. next year, 7 mill in year 2, team option for 3rd year. So essentially a 2 year, $20 million deal.
unnatural carnal knowledge it, they should just sign Revis and give the whole NFL the middle finger this off season.
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Bears signed M.D. Jennings.
Yuck, I always looked forward to abusing him when the Bears played the Packers.
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Yuck, I always looked forward to abusing him when the Bears played the Packers.
It's too bad you never had a QB who could do that!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHhohzylpk
This might be the closest a Bears defensive back gets a a Packers receiver this season with MD Jennings in the secondary.
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3 years, 30 million.
13 mill gurant. next year, 7 mill in year 2, team option for 3rd year. So essentially a 2 year, $20 million deal.
unnatural carnal knowledge it, they should just sign Revis and give the whole NFL the middle finger this off season.
I like that idea. Incognito too, just cuz.
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Interesting Bears will absorb all Peppers dead money this year.
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Interesting Bears will absorb all Peppers dead money this year.
Layman's explanation/analysis?
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Interesting Bears will absorb all Peppers dead money this year.
I never knew a team had that option but why not allow that if they choes to
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Lions with a solid #2 receiver signing. Golden Tate. Of course, now that he is a Lion, he will either get hurt or develop bad hands.
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Lions with a solid #2 receiver signing. Golden Tate. Of course, now that he is a Lion, he will either get hurt or develop bad hands.
He's already got the "being a jackass" part down, should fit right in there. Though, with Schwartz gone, maybe the team personality will improve for the better.
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Vikings loading up on CB's. NFC North is ours.
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He's already got the "being a jackass" part down, should fit right in there. Though, with Schwartz gone, maybe the team personality will improve for the better.
I LOVE listening to Tom Thayer - he has got to be the worst analyst ever. Loved hearing how it was a double victory for the Bears to sign MD Jennings. Bears get an outstanding safety AND take away a great player from a division rival.
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I LOVE listening to Tom Thayer - he has got to be the worst analyst ever. Loved hearing how it was a double victory for the Bears to sign MD Jennings. Bears get an outstanding safety AND take away a great player from a division rival.
I love Thayer but I wouldnt even call Jennings average. He was pretty bad during his tenure with the Packers. However, with that being said, it still cant be worse than Conte.
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BEars resigned Peanut.
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I LOVE listening to Tom Thayer - he has got to be the worst analyst ever.
He did go to Notre Dame.
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BEars resigned Peanut.
Yea, I wanna see the amount of the deal before I comment but I am ok with giving him a 1 year deal. Gives time to develop a young CB out of the draft so Peanut and Jennings can mentor him.
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Yea, I wanna see the amount of the deal before I comment but I am ok with giving him a 1 year deal. Gives time to develop a young CB out of the draft so Peanut and Jennings can mentor him.
Lawrence Holmes had it at $3mil
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Packers sign Julius Peppers. Sigh.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/250454751.html?ipad=y
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Packers sign Julius Peppers. Sigh.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/250454751.html?ipad=y
That's not a bad signing for the pack. Even if they get 1 year of peppers at 75% of his prime it will be much better than anything they had.
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Peppers didn't seem very motivated last season. Concerned about his work ethic and ability to fit into the 3-4. Hope I'm wrong.
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Peppers didn't seem very motivated last season. Concerned about his work ethic and ability to fit into the 3-4. Hope I'm wrong.
Maybe a change of scenery will help. Pretty sure he will be motivated for at least 2 games
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Packers sign Julius Peppers. Sigh.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/250454751.html?ipad=y
great pick up. He'll find somewhere to play in that 3-4. Go pack!
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$7.5 m guaranteed? I'll take him.
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great pick up. He'll find somewhere to play in that 3-4. Go pack!
Somewhere to play? He's not a swiss army knife kind of guy you can move around. He's a classic 4-3 DE. Very different player than someone like Matthews. My initial thought was being confused how he'll work in a 3-4, especially given his regression. But I'm sure he'll have two big games a year, sigh.
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Somewhere to play? He's not a swiss army knife kind of guy you can move around. He's a classic 4-3 DE. Very different player than someone like Matthews. My initial thought was being confused how he'll work in a 3-4, especially given his regression. But I'm sure he'll have two big games a year, sigh.
He has always preferred a 3-4, so I don't think it will be a problem plus he's only gonna be a 30 play a game type guy. Perfect signing for GB as commitment is only for one year. Motivation should be there since he only sees years 2 and 3 if he plays well - no financial commitment.
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Worth a chance of Peppers on one year deal. At his age and motor level, seems like an odd fit at this point though moving to 3-4. Agree he's better than what they had, but he's clearly lost a lot off his fastball.
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Worth a chance of Peppers on one year deal. At his age and motor level, seems like an odd fit at this point though moving to 3-4. Agree he's better than what they had, but he's clearly lost a lot off his fastball.
Agreed. If they were expecting an every down player at his age it would be questionable. But money and situation make it look good - at least on paper.
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A lot came out of the competition committee conference call with the media. The Redskins bascially want to change every rule possible, proposing 8 (!) changes. Lot of procedural changes proposed. One thing is for sure going to happen, playoff expansion is coming in 2015. The logistics of it are going to be difficult to figure out though, there's virtually no way they can re-seed and have it be fair.
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One thing is for sure going to happen, playoff expansion is coming in 2015. The logistics of it are going to be difficult to figure out though, there's virtually no way they can re-seed and have it be fair.
Yuk! I get it, but I sure don't like it.
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Woott, Woott!
The Consensus is back!
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Bears sign Jared Allen for 4 years/ $32 mill according to FS1. $15.5 mill guaranteed.
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Bears sign Jared Allen for 4 years/ $32 mill according to FS1. $15.5 mill guaranteed.
bleh :-\
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bleh :-\
I agree. Average at best as a run defender.
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Bears sign Jared Allen for 4 years/ $32 mill according to FS1. $15.5 mill guaranteed.
Big overpayment for a guy past his prime. Smells desperate.
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This Allen move is akin to when the Lions signed Vanden-Bosch about 5 years ago... A spazzy DE who makes plays because of his motor more than his natural skill. He will have two more "productive" years (definitely past his prime, though) and then the next two years he will be dead weight and/or cut once the Bears find a true successor to Peppers
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Well its better then what the Bears have now. The NFC North is playing "Musical Defensive Ends"
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Well its better then what the Bears have now. The NFC North is playing "Musical Defensive Ends"
yeah, i guess its an upgrade, but seems pricey.
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yeah, i guess its an upgrade, but seems pricey.
Cheaper than Peppers would have been. Basically $8mm a year for 2 years. For a guy who has only had less than 10 sacks once in the last 5 years and had 11.5 last year, I'm not unhappy about it. He's only 31.
The Vanden Bosch comparison isn't exactly fair considering his "career" years are barely equal to an average year for Allen. Maybe similar in the motor comparison, but not the same level of player. Its not a long term solution, but its definitely a positive signing and an upgrade.
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Bears sign Jared Allen to 4 year deal worth 32 mil.
Just the pass rusher that that defense needed.
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Two updated (3/31) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Bortles; 2. Falcons (trade) - Clowney; 3. Jags - Mack
Vikes: Bridgewater, QB, Lousiville (Manziel, QB, A&M)
Lions: Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA (Gilbert, CB, OKSt)
Bears: Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama (no change)
Pack: Mosley, ILB, Alabama (Hageman, DE/DT, Minn)
Round 2
Vikes: Thomas, OT/G, Clemson (Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA)
Lions: Ward, S, NIU (Matthews, WR, Vandy)
Bears: Roberson, CB, Florida (no change)
Pack: Murphy, DE/OLB, Stanford (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Loston, S, LSU
Lions: Swanson, C, Arkansas (Brooks, S, FSU)
Bears: Johnson, DT, LSU
Pack: Boston, S, UNC
Vikes: Smith, OLB, FSU
Pack: Clarke, DE/DT, WVU
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Mack; 3. Jags - Bortles
Vikes: Manziel, QB, TxA&M (no change)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M (no change)
Bears: Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama (Jernigan, DT, FSU)
Pack: Hageman, DE/DT, Minn (Shazier, OLB, OSU)
Round 2
Vikes: Yankey, G, Stanford (Su'a-Filo, G, UCLA)
Lions: Bailey, S, USC (Adams, WR, Fresno)
Bears: Ferguson, DT, LSU (Easley, DE, Florida)
Pack: Niklas, TE, ND (Bailey, S, USC)
Round 3
Vikes: Loston, S, LSU (Martin, DE, UNC)
Lions: Lawrence, OLB/DE, Boise St (no change)
Bears: Ellis, DT, LA Tech (Ward, S, NIU)
Pack: Smith, S/OLB, FSU (McCullers, DT, Tenn)
Vikes: Seastrunk, RB, Baylor
Pack: Savage, QB, Pitt
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I hope to God we do not get Hageman. That guy is a cluster*&@# and I believe he's almost 24? Correct me if I"m wrong. I saw a quote from him saying that "he thinks too much" so he doesn't react the way he should. This is in college where you have much more time to think than the NFL. He's a bust. Louis Nix would be the DT I would target as long as the scouts do their homework on his injury history.
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Two updated (4/14) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Mack; 3. Vikings (trade) - Bortles
Vikes: trade to #3 for Bortles, QB, UCF (Bridgewater, QB, Lousiville)
Lions: Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA (no change)
Bears: Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama (no change)
Pack: Mosley, ILB, Alabama (no change)
Round 2
Vikes: no pick - trade in 1st
Lions: Latimer, WR, IU (Fuller, CB, VT)
Bears: Roberson, CB, Florida (no change)
Pack: Reynolds, S, Stanford (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Jackson, S, MSSt (no change)
Lions: Swanson, C, Arkansas (no change)
Bears: Johnson, DT, LSU (no change)
Pack: Abbrederis, WR, WI (Latimer, WR, IU)
Vikes: Smith, OLB, FSU (no change)
Pack: Mettenberger, QB, LSU (Clarke, DE/DT, WVU)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Vikings (trade) - Bortles; 3. Jags - Mack
Vikes: trade to #2 - Bortles, QB, UCF (Manziel, QB, TxA&M)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M (no change)
Bears: Clinton-Dix, S, Alabama (Jernigan, DT, FSU)
Pack: Pryor, S, Louis (Hageman, DE/DT, Minn)
Round 2
Vikes: Yankey, G, Stanford (no change)
Lions: Richburg, C, COSt (Smith, OLB)
Bears: Ferguson, DT, LSU (no change)
Pack: Niklas, TE, ND (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Martin, DE, UNC (Lawrence, OLB)
Lions: Loston, S, LSU (no change)
Bears: Jean-Baptiste, CB, Neb (Gaines, CB)
Pack: Abbrederis, WR, Wis (no change)
Vikes: Carey, RB, Ariz (no change)
Pack: Savage, QB, Pitt (no change)
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X-Factor for the Bears this year is going to be Shea McClellin. Looks like hes trimmed down a bunch and even if he can be Hunter Hillenmeyer successful that will mean good things for the Bears.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-trainer-shea-mcclellin-20140422,0,5492404.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-trainer-shea-mcclellin-20140422,0,5492404.story)
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Two updated (5/1) mock drafts: (yes, two guys, same site)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Mack; 3. Jags - Watkins
Vikes: Bortles, QB, UCF (no change)
Lions: Barr, DE/OLB, UCLA (no change)
Bears: Fuller, CB/S, VT (Clinton-Dix) **Dolphins traded into Bears' 14th spot
Pack: Mosley, ILB, Alabama (no change)
Round 2
Vikes: Lawrence, DE/OLB, Boise (no change)
Lions: Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Wash (Latimer, WR, IU)
Bears: Martin, DE, UNC (Roberson, CB, Florida)
Pack: Amaro, TE, TT (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Watkins, CB, UF (no change)
Lions: Jean-Baptiste, CB, Neb (no change)
Bears: Roberson, CB, UF (no change)
Bears: Uko, DT, USC **Trade from Dolphins
Pack: Brooks, S, FSU (no change)
Vikes: Loston, S, LSU (no change)
Pack: Abbrederis, WR, UW (no change)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2014charlie.php
Round 1
1. Texans - Clowney; 2. Rams - Mack; 3. Jags - Watkins
Vikes: Carr, QB, Fresno (no change)
Lions: Evans, WR, TxA&M (no change)
Bears: Pryor, S, L'ville (Clinton-Dix, S, Bama)
Pack: Hageman, DE/DT, Minn (no change)
Round 2
Vikes: Martin, DE, UNC (no change)
Lions: Richburg, C, COSt (no change)
Bears: Sutton, DT, ASU (Ferguson, DT, LSU)
Pack: Niklas, TE, ND (no change)
Round 3
Vikes: Richardson, G, Baylor (no change)
Lions: Dixon, S, Baylor (no change)
Bears: McCarron, QB, Bama (Jean-Baptiste, CB, Neb)
Pack: Jones, ILB, FSU (no change)
Vikes: Carey, RB, Ariz (no change)
Pack: Loston, S, LSU (Savage, QB, Pitt)
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Here's what I have heard/know.
As I said on here back in Feb, there is no way Donald gets past the Bears. Now, there's no way he'll be there at 14, zero chance. He could go as early as six to the Falcons.
Either the 13th pick or 14th pick will be traded to a team trying to get Beckham (or Ebron if he falls to the teens). Either the Jets/Niners/Eagles will look to move to that spot.
Other random thoughts...
Texans clearly prefer Mack over Clowney. They won't get enough to trade down to take Mack. Will they pull the trigger on Mack at 1?
No QB will go top 10.
Rams would be silly to not take Watkins at 2, I believe they will.
No one has any idea what the Browns will do, including the Browns.
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Here's what I have heard/know.
As I said on here back in Feb, there is no way Donald gets past the Bears. Now, there's no way he'll be there at 14, zero chance. He could go as early as six to the Falcons.
Either the 13th pick or 14th pick will be traded to a team trying to get Beckham (or Ebron if he falls to the teens). Either the Jets/Niners/Eagles will look to move to that spot.
Other random thoughts...
Texans clearly prefer Mack over Clowney. They won't get enough to trade down to take Mack. Will they pull the trigger on Mack at 1?
No QB will go top 10.
Rams would be silly to not take Watkins at 2, I believe they will.
No one has any idea what the Browns will do, including the Browns.
They'll take Manziel because that makes the least amount of sense.
They're the Browns.
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Other random thoughts...
Texans clearly prefer Mack over Clowney. They won't get enough to trade down to take Mack. Will they pull the trigger on Mack at 1?
No QB will go top 10.
Teams demand way too much in a trade for their early picks. I think the rams got three 1sts and a 2nd from the Redskins just to move up 4 spots. I saw some graphs on this yesterday and the 1st pick at any position has only about a 54% chance to be better than the 2nd pick at the same position, 55% over the 3rd pick at the position, and 56^ over the 4th. Trading up at the current cost is the worst move to make.
I think no QB should go in the top 10, but......
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Teams demand way too much in a trade for their early picks. I think the rams got three 1sts and a 2nd from the Redskins just to move up 4 spots. I saw some graphs on this yesterday and the 1st pick at any position has only about a 54% chance to be better than the 2nd pick at the same position, 55% over the 3rd pick at the position, and 56^ over the 4th. Trading up at the current cost is the worst move to make.
I think no QB should go in the top 10, but......
Here is a real cool, and geeky, article saying that teams that draft down generally win more than those who trade up.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/7/5683448/how-nfl-teams-ignore-basic-economics-and-draft-players-irrationally
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Here is a real cool, and geeky, article saying that teams that draft down generally win more than those who trade up.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/7/5683448/how-nfl-teams-ignore-basic-economics-and-draft-players-irrationally
That was the article I was referring to.
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I see McGinn, who annually is one of the highest rated guessers, has the Bears trading down with the 49ers and taking Dix. He has GB taking Mosley
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While that would be fantastic and I've had my eye on Clinton-Dix for the Bears ever since it became apparent Donald wouldn't be around, I find it REALLY hard to believe he would be around in the 20s, much less the 30s. The Eagles would take him at 22.
If the Bears could get a 2 and a 3 to trade down, cool. Otherwise, I hope they stay put and get some much needed defensive help.
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From what I've been reading I think I'd rather take Calvin Pryor over Clinton-Dix. It seems like Pryor is more physical and better against the run. With Tillman and Jennings coming back that's huge for pass defense and if we can get a guy in the secondary that can actually make a play when a runner is coming at him rather than stand with his feet cemented to ground then I'm all for it.
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While that would be fantastic and I've had my eye on Clinton-Dix for the Bears ever since it became apparent Donald wouldn't be around, I find it REALLY hard to believe he would be around in the 20s, much less the 30s. The Eagles would take him at 22.
If the Bears could get a 2 and a 3 to trade down, cool. Otherwise, I hope they stay put and get some much needed defensive help.
I think both guys will be available in the early to mid 20 range. If the Bears made a deal with SF, it might take another deal to move back up a couple spots.
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Do you guys prefer ESPN or NFL Network's coverage? My ideal group would be Eisen, Mayock, McShay, Kiper.
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Do you guys prefer ESPN or NFL Network's coverage? My ideal group would be Eisen, Mayock, McShay, Kiper.
The only thing worse than Mel Kiper Jr is knowing there is a Mel Kiper Sr
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The only thing worse than Mel Kiper Jr is knowing there is a Mel Kiper Sr
Whats wrong with Kiper?
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Whats wrong with Kiper?
Where do I start?
Why is he yelling? I have volume control on my TV (thank God, because I can turn his nonsense down), he doesn't need to yell. Also, he has been accused of taking money from
agents to put certain players higher on his draft board.
He isn't that great at his job. I would take McShay any day.
Also, whats up with the hair?
The best part about the NFL draft is I won't have to see his squinty face for about 9 months.
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Whats wrong with Kiper?
What isn't? He is a know it all, that is wrong all the time.
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The guy is the most annoying person on ESPN (which says a lot) and on-top of that he isn't that good at his job. See below
http://deadspin.com/infographic-youre-better-off-guessing-than-listening-480958913/1573510998/+kylenw
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Whats wrong with Kiper?
I notice some people are always anti-ESPN here. I would rate Kiper and McShay pretty equal to Mayock overall.
Mel can get annoying with his know-it-all attitude at times, but his rankings will stand up to anyone's, including GMs and scouts.
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What isn't? He is a know it all, that is wrong all the time.
GMs make wrong picks every single year so I guess I can say they are wrong all the time.
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The guy is the most annoying person on ESPN (which says a lot) and on-top of that he isn't that good at his job. See below
http://deadspin.com/infographic-youre-better-off-guessing-than-listening-480958913/1573510998/+kylenw
That chart is misleading. They took the actual performance of those players. Not what they were projected out of college. People are busts all the time. Btw, anybody else surprised that Lance Briggs is the best rated player from the 2003 class? I sure am.
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how many actually watch the draft other than just to see who their teams select or the top picks? in other words, will you be glued to the coverage the next 3 nights or just tuning in to check the ticker for "made" selections?
personally I think the time each team gets in the 1st round is excessive and kills the viewing experience and the later rounds, forget it, to many times they'll talk during a selection and never discuss the player just selected because they're too busy discussing a previous choice
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how many actually watch the draft other than just to see who their teams select or the top picks? in other words, will you be glued to the coverage the next 3 nights or just tuning in to check the ticker for "made" selections?
If I have time I will always sit down and watch the draft. Only draft I will do that for.
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how many actually watch the draft other than just to see who their teams select or the top picks? in other words, will you be glued to the coverage the next 3 nights or just tuning in to check the ticker for "made" selections?
I try to watch the 1st couple nights. After that I check the ticker mostly.
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I will watch NFL Network. Only reason is the buffoon Chris Berman. He is a total, over the top, blowhard. Kiper and McShay are fine, as is Mayock.
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I notice some people are always anti-ESPN here.
I've stopped watching ESPN outside of live sports for a couple years now. It makes my life so much simpler.
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I used to watch the draft on Saturdays with my friends. Now it is this total blown out of proportion weekend long saga that has to start at 7pm on a Thursday (?). It used to be fun. Now I watch my team draft in the first round (if it isn't way too late already on a work night) and move on. As a side note, fifteen minutes was always far too long for teams to make a pick; five minutes would work better on TV, and would move the pace along.
GMs make wrong picks every single year so I guess I can say they are wrong all the time.
Those same GMs don't get to keep their jobs forever like Kiper does. He is a blow hard, and the worst part is he pretends to be a know it all.
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Big risk with the Jags taking Bortles. Could send them back another 5 years if it doesnt pan out.
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I've stopped watching ESPN outside of live sports for a couple years now. It makes my life so much simpler.
Same here. Life has been so peaceful. Sometimes I ask myself why I ever watched Skip Bayless and Steven A. Smith argue for hours about insignificant stuff.
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Donald still on the board for the bears...
Some surprises so far.
Is Brady Quinn consoling manziel?
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God effin damn it. Screw the Rams. Time to trade down.
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Did the Bears troll Marquette by selecting a player from VaTech?!
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Bears management, making awful first round selections since 1985
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Ha
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Bears management, making awful first round selections since 1985
Last year's pick wasn't awful - he was awesome.
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Last year's pick wasn't awful - he was awesome.
But for every Urlacher and Long you have McNown, Carimi, Williams, McClellan, Benson etc...
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Also im calling Johnny Football to the Cards. Oops, nm.
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But for every Urlacher and Long you have McNown, Carimi, Williams, McClellan, Benson etc...
To be fair, Emery has had 2 drafts and is 50-50 with his first round picks. Fuller can play CB or S. They didn't reach to get him. I wanted Pryor or Clinton-Dix, but this wasn't a bad pick at all. I don't know what people are throwing shade at it.
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Ha
Ha.
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To be fair, Emery has had 2 drafts and is 50-50 with his first round picks. Fuller can play CB or S. They didn't reach to get him. I wanted Pryor or Clinton-Dix, but this wasn't a bad pick at all. I don't know what people are throwing shade at it.
Because it wasnt Pryor or Ha Ha. Im not looking forward to a safety positions that has MD Jennings starting. Saftey and DT were the biggest need and Emery didnt address it when there was a ton of talent available.
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But for every Urlacher and Long you have McNown, Carimi, Williams, McClellan, Benson etc...
Every team has it's share of first round misses. Drafts should be graded on what teams do in the middle rounds more than anything. That's where quality depth is built.
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Big risk with the Jags taking Bortles. Could send them back another 5 years if it doesnt pan out.
As a Jags season ticket holder, I was hoping for Watkins, and then take a QB in round 2 or 3. Bortles scares me, as seems like Gabbert 2.0. But hey, at least his girlfriend is hot.
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Every team has it's share of first round misses. Drafts should be graded on what teams do in the middle rounds more than anything. That's where quality depth is built.
For all the accolades that Ted Thompson gets as a draft master, he whiffs a lot in the first round as well. Everyone does.
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I just saw the Bears extended Marshall for 3 years/$30m
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I just saw the Bears extended Marshall for 3 years/$30m
Won't matter who they have at WR if they don't get a QB.
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Won't matter who they have at WR if they don't get a QB.
Whether you like or hate cutler you can't argue with Marshall's production the past two years: 100+ receptions both years
1,000+ yards each year
12,11 TD's
This is even with backups in place during much of that time
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Whether you like or hate cutler you can't argue with Marshall's production the past two years: 100+ receptions both years
1,000+ yards each year
12,11 TD's
This is even with backups in place during much of that time
Yup, Marshall is a stud. I just mean in terms of the Bears' success as a team. Although the 1 thing Marshall may want to do is keep quiet during Packers week. Hasn't had a whole lot of success head to head against them.
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Ill still take Cutler over McCown any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Glad Cutler will still have the big guns around him for a long time.
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Ill still take Cutler over McCown any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Glad Cutler will still have the big guns around him for a long time.
As a Packers fan, I, too, will take Cutler under center for the Bears every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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da Bears former players filing suit, perhaps they need to vacate that lonely SB title? ;D
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-ex-players-nfl-illegally-161358484--nfl.html
A group of retired NFL players says in a lawsuit filed Tuesday that the league, thirsty for profits, illegally supplied them with risky narcotics and other painkillers that numbed their injuries for games and led to medical complications down the road.
The league obtained and administered the drugs illegally, without prescriptions and without warning players of their potential side effects, to speed the return of injured players to the field and maximize profits, the lawsuit alleges. Players say they were never told about broken legs and ankles and instead were fed pills to mask the pain. One says that instead of surgery, he was given anti-inflammatories and skipped practices so he could play in money-making games. And others say that after years of free pills from the NFL, they retired from the league addicted to the painkillers.
The drug lawsuit names eight players, including three members of the NFL champion 1985 Chicago Bears: Hall of Fame defensive end Richard Dent, offensive lineman Keith Van Horne, and quarterback Jim McMahon. Lawyers seek class-action status, and they say in the filing that more than 500 other former players have signed on to the lawsuit.
McMahon says in the lawsuit that he suffered a broken neck and ankle during his career but rather than sitting out, he received medications and was pushed back on to the field. Team doctors and trainers never told him about the injuries, according to the lawsuit.
McMahon also became addicted to painkillers, at one point taking more than 100 Percocet pills per month, even in the offseason, the lawsuit says. Team-employed doctors and trainers illegally administered the drugs, the lawsuit alleges, because they didn't get prescriptions, keep records or explain side effects.
Van Horne played an entire season on a broken leg and wasn't told about the injury for five years, ''during which time he was fed a constant diet of pills to deal with the pain,'' the lawsuit says.
Among the eight named plaintiffs, six were also plaintiffs in concussion-related litigation, including McMahon and Van Horne.
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Credit to the Milwaukee Journal for cheesiest headline of the month:
With Julius Peppers in camp, Packers defense gets spicy
::)
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Packers resign Jordy...good move. Probably could have gotten more on the open market. Now just have to get Cobb signed up.
BTW I have come to the conclusion that the NFL is like Congress. No one like the league as a whole, but they love their team.
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Packers resign Jordy...good move. Probably could have gotten more on the open market. Now just have to get Cobb signed up.
BTW I have come to the conclusion that the NFL is like Congress. No one like the league as a whole, but they love their team.
Really nice move for both the team and Nelson, contract makes total sense. Thompson has had a good offseason, still in my opinion the best GM in football.
Pumped for the season to get going.
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one thing im dreading is the supposed increase in pass interference calls, kind of like ncaa basketball last year. Will be yet another record breaking year for offenses
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one thing im dreading is the supposed increase in pass interference calls, kind of like ncaa basketball last year. Will be yet another record breaking year for offenses
Not true. You'll see a significant spike in illegal contact and defensive holding calls this year instead. Officials will lean more towards those penalties when they see a foul, but not conclusive enough for PI.
5 yds & 1st down vs spot foul & 1st down.
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Not true. You'll see a significant spike in illegal contact and defensive holding calls this year instead. Officials will lean more towards those penalties when they see a foul, but not conclusive enough for PI.
5 yds & 1st down vs spot foul & 1st down.
either way more flags will fly. I love bump and run coverage but we'll see how long teams are able play that way.
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Make sure your drafting Jarrett Boykin this year.
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Make sure your drafting Jarrett Boykin this year.
Ehh. He'll be #4 on the Packers depth chart.
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Ehh. He'll be #4 on the Packers depth chart.
Just do it, draft him late and thank me later.
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Ehh. He'll be #4 on the Packers depth chart.
#4 on the Packers can still get TD passes thrown to him.
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Just do it, draft him late and thank me later.
Haha I hope you're right. I've been hearing good thing about Rodgers (the TE).
#4 on the Packers can still get TD passes thrown to him.
This is true.
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Who is he going to be behind? Nelson and Cobb obviously. But Adams?
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Adams ain't beating out Boykin for #3
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Rough day for Bears today.
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Who is he going to be behind? Nelson and Cobb obviously. But Adams?
I think Adams will beat him out. I haven't heard a lot of noise regarding Adams so far but I just have never been all that confident in Boykins.
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I think Adams will beat him out. I haven't heard a lot of noise regarding Adams so far but I just have never been all that confident in Boykins.
I think Rodgers and McCarthy both have a lot of trust in Boykin. He played well last year. Adams might be more talented and I think he'll have his opportunities this year, but it's Boykin's job to lose.
Dish - I assume you're referring to the Marquess Wilson injury? Sounds like the Bears wanted him to play a much bigger role as WR3 this year.
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I think Adams will beat him out. I haven't heard a lot of noise regarding Adams so far but I just have never been all that confident in Boykins.
I think maybe by year 2. Adams has struggled learning the system - coming from a wide open offense to a very disciplined one as far as routes are concerned.
Kinda similar to Alshon, where he took off in his 2nd year.
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I think Rodgers and McCarthy both have a lot of trust in Boykin. He played well last year. Adams might be more talented and I think he'll have his opportunities this year, but it's Boykin's job to lose.
Dish - I assume you're referring to the Marquez Wilson injury? Sounds like the Bears wanted him to play a much bigger role as WR3 this year.
Yeah, I know to some it may not seem big, but it's a tough blow. They liked his offseason and training camp a lot, expected him to grow and be their #3. He wasn't going to catch more than 30-40 passes, but they are incredibly thin at wideout. As good as Marshall and Jeffery are, they aren't in a position to lose Wilson. Marshall's on the wrong side of 30 and has had hip issues, so this is worth watching.
On the flip side, this is where the Packers depth as wideout is a real strength in my opinion. Pack much better equipped if Cobb (like last season) or Nelson were to go down.
I won't make my picks for a few weeks, but I really like the Pack this year.
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Yeah, I know to some it may not seem big, but it's a tough blow. They liked his offseason and training camp a lot, expected him to grow and be their #3. He wasn't going to catch more than 30-40 passes, but they are incredibly thin at wideout. As good as Marshall and Jeffery are, they aren't in a position to lose Wilson. Marshall's on the wrong side of 30 and has had hip issues, so this is worth watching.
On the flip side, this is where the Packers depth as wideout is a real strength in my opinion. Pack much better equipped if Cobb (like last season) or Nelson were to go down.
I won't make my picks for a few weeks, but I really like the Pack this year.
I had read the same things about him having a great camp. Wilson is undoubtedly talented - he dropped so far in the draft because he quit the team at WSU, not for any lack of physical gifts or talent. He also fit the new Bears' mold of WR; he is a big guy at 6'3", 194.
You won't have a hard time convincing Packers fans about the importance of having depth all over the field.
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This is fun: A map showing which NFL teams are most hated in each state. No big surprise, Illinois hates the Packers; Wisconsin hates the Bears.
Any reason the Dakotas hate the Vikings? I guess I just assumed the Northern Great Plains were all Vikings fans?
No one hates the Lions, which is sorta sad, actually.
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/8/2/5962957/introducing-the-sports-hate-map
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Why hate the Lions? They haven't been a threat since Ike.
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I think Rodgers and McCarthy both have a lot of trust in Boykin. He played well last year. Adams might be more talented and I think he'll have his opportunities this year, but it's Boykin's job to lose.
Yep. Boykin was one of the reasons they let never made an effort to keep Jones.
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This is fun: A map showing which NFL teams are most hated in each state. No big surprise, Illinois hates the Packers; Wisconsin hates the Bears.
Any reason the Dakotas hate the Vikings? I guess I just assumed the Northern Great Plains were all Vikings fans?
No one hates the Lions, which is sorta sad, actually.
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/8/2/5962957/introducing-the-sports-hate-map
They don't - the source is a guy asking people their thoughts on reddit. Yawn.
The TRUE CONSENSUS is everyone respects the VIKINGS! SKOL! Looking forward to a return to the playoffs this year!
Will be an odd season playing at TCF Bank Stadium... parking situation is brutal. Looking forward to it! Although I know the peckers and bares will miss the Dome.
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I gotta agree with Jay Bee. Vikes are tops in the Dakotas. This survey is bs.
The Dakotas are passionate about their college hockey and football. The Bison or Fighting Sioux vs Gophers in football and/or hockey are great rivalries.
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Bennett fined and suspended indefinitely. For a fight at camp? there's gotta be more to the story, right?
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Bennett fined and suspended indefinitely. For a fight at camp? there's gotta be more to the story, right?
Little more than just a fight. He picked their first round pick him up and body slammed him.
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He also was yelling at Brandon Marshall for a few minutes right before that play. Seems like his emotions got the best of him yesterday.
He probably needs to cool down for a couple days and will be back later this week for the Eagles game....at least I hope so.
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Little more than just a fight. He picked their first round pick him up and body slammed him.
Yeah, that's unacceptable.
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Little more than just a fight. He picked their first round pick him up and body slammed him.
Most coaches like to see a few fights in camp. Good one in GB yesterday. Punches thrown, then broken up and practice continues as normal.
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Most coaches like to see a few fights in camp. Good one in GB yesterday. Punches thrown, then broken up and practice continues as normal.
Then most coaches need to retire and/or die. You cannot find turning to violence as an acceptable solution to problems and then turn around and expect the players to not find it acceptable in their personal lives.
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Then most coaches need to retire and/or die. You cannot find turning to violence as an acceptable solution to problems and then turn around and expect the players to not find it acceptable in their personal lives.
Sarcasm?
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Sarcasm?
None at all. No need for the Neanderthal mindset in today's NFL.
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None at all. No need for the Neanderthal mindset in today's NFL.
Blocking and tackling are awful aggressive, too.
And ball carriers trying to run people over? That translates very easily to domestic violence. Ray Rice would never have punched his wife senseless if that aggression didn't carry over to home.
(Hopefully teal isn't necessary.)
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Blocking and tackling are awful aggressive, too.
And ball carriers trying to run people over? That translates very easily to domestic violence. Ray Rice would never have punched his wife senseless if that aggression didn't carry over to home.
(Hopefully teal isn't necessary.)
Yep, figured you wouldn't get it, you carry the mindset. Like fighting in hockey...
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Blocking and tackling are awful aggressive, too.
And ball carriers trying to run people over? That translates very easily to domestic violence. Ray Rice would never have punched his wife senseless if that aggression didn't carry over to home.
(Hopefully teal isn't necessary.)
Which is ironic, because on-field aggression gets a harsher penalty than off-field aggression.
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Which is ironic, because on-field aggression gets a harsher penalty than off-field aggression.
Zing
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Tough news on Barclay. Guys like him that can be swing backups create a lot of value, typically save a roster spot too.
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Went up to GB on Tuesday.
We tried to get our picture taken with John Bergstrom. He was the only MU guy on the sidelines.
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What happened to....put on a few lbs. Needs Dr. 4ever's no wheat diet
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--6ym5TM5Y--/k1vnqjmtwqyo3padflfy.jpg)
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I say this every preseason...the games don't count, boring to watch...but they do matter. Texans tonight is concerning, that's a sign something is not right.
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I see that GB has the lowest percentage in the entire league of players left over from the 2011 % 2012 drafts.
I have my opinion, but do you see this as a good thing or bad?
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I see that GB has the lowest percentage in the entire league of players left over from the 2011 % 2012 drafts.
I have my opinion, but do you see this as a good thing or bad?
Been listening to 1250 AM a lot recently, hey?
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Been listening to 1250 AM a lot recently, hey?
No - never listen to that station. Saw an online article on ESPN.
Just found it interesting that 5 of the 7 teams with the lowest retention rate made the playoffs while 3 of the top 4 did not (and may have been 4 for 4 if Denver didn't sigh Manning).
Seems to make sense since better teams have more good players and young guys need to step up quick or be gone, while poorer teams have more openings and don't have better options.
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For all the Cutler lovers/defenders out there, he better produce some results this season. If he can't win with the talent around him this year, he will never win anything significant. All the Bears lovers say Marshall is better than Jordy and that Marshall and Jeffreys is better than Jordy and Cobb. Bennett is clearly more proven than any tight end on the Packers roster, and Forte is said to be a top 4 running back in the league. So if I'm hearing all of this correctly, then the Bears have the better wide receiving group with Holmes in the fold now, the better first tight end, and the better running back. Given all of that, you would think it would be NFC North Title or bust, plus a legitimate chance to win the Super Bowl this year, correct?
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For all the Cutler lovers/defenders out there, he better produce some results this season. If he can't win with the talent around him this year, he will never win anything significant. All the Bears lovers say Marshall is better than Jordy and that Marshall and Jeffreys is better than Jordy and Cobb. Bennett is clearly more proven than any tight end on the Packers roster, and Forte is said to be a top 4 running back in the league. So if I'm hearing all of this correctly, then the Bears have the better wide receiving group with Holmes in the fold now, the better first tight end, and the better running back. Given all of that, you would think it would be NFC North Title or bust, plus a legitimate chance to win the Super Bowl this year, correct?
Yup, that all sounds about right Wade. Thanks for agreeing. Add a much improved defense and you attempt at snide commentary is spot on.
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Yup, that all sounds about right Wade. Thanks for agreeing. Add a much improved defense and you attempt at snide commentary is spot on.
There was nothing snide about it. Evidently the Bears have a better group of skill position players (they have the better players at each and every skill position, after all), the Packers defense has been absolutely brutal since the Super Bowl season, and the Packers special teams are always, well, "special," so given all that either Cutler will never win anything as a quarterback (like I have been saying) and the Packers will once again be the best team in the NFC North, or the Bears will win the NFC North and have a legitimate shot to win the Super Bowl. So what it comes down to is whether Cutler is so bad that Rodgers alone can make up for the gap in every other area, or whether Cutler is good enough to win. Not snide, logical.
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There was nothing snide about it. Evidently the Bears have a better group of skill position players (they have the better players at each and every skill position, after all), the Packers defense has been absolutely brutal since the Super Bowl season, and the Packers special teams are always, well, "special," so given all that either Cutler will never win anything as a quarterback (like I have been saying) and the Packers will once again be the best team in the NFC North, or the Bears will win the NFC North and have a legitimate shot to win the Super Bowl. So what it comes down to is whether Cutler is so bad that Rodgers alone can make up for the gap in every other area, or whether Cutler is good enough to win. Not snide, logical.
Well, last year was the first year in many that the Bears had a "top" offense, with aforementioned skill players. And despite your assertions that the Packers D was a dumpster fire, the Bears was worse, ratings wise. A bit better in Pass D, but dead last by a SIGNIFICANT margin in Rushing D. Cutler was good enough last year to win the Bears "something", but a historically bad (by Bears standards) defense held them back.
As ChitownWarrior said, nobody in Chicago disagrees with you. Its a put up or shut up year, perception wise for Cutler. And despite the fun that Packers fans like to have with it, nobody is directly comparing Cutler with the best QB in the NFL, so thats where the snide comments come in. But to insinuate that the Bears have been better everywhere, except for QB, the last few years is asinine. I would agree that they have more talent around Cutler on offense than Rodgers has around him, but there are still MAJOR questions on defense. This isn't college where you can outshoot teams like Baylor or Texas Tech and win games 55-48.
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Well, last year was the first year in many that the Bears had a "top" offense, with aforementioned skill players. And despite your assertions that the Packers D was a dumpster fire, the Bears was worse, ratings wise. A bit better in Pass D, but dead last by a SIGNIFICANT margin in Rushing D. Cutler was good enough last year to win the Bears "something", but a historically bad (by Bears standards) defense held them back.
As ChitownWarrior said, nobody in Chicago disagrees with you. Its a put up or shut up year, perception wise for Cutler. And despite the fun that Packers fans like to have with it, nobody is directly comparing Cutler with the best QB in the NFL, so thats where the snide comments come in. But to insinuate that the Bears have been better everywhere, except for QB, the last few years is asinine. I would agree that they have more talent around Cutler on offense than Rodgers has around him, but there are still MAJOR questions on defense. This isn't college where you can outshoot teams like Baylor or Texas Tech and win games 55-48.
Sorry, didn't mean to say Cutler should be compared to Rodgers. And I just mean going into this year, I'm not saying that that in past years Cutler had better players around him. For the record, I personally think the Packers have better skill position players, but Chicago fans think their skill position players are better. So what I am saying is that Bears fans claim that Jay Cutler can be a Super Bowl winning quarterback with the right players around him. With all of the praise that the Packers skill position players get, with everyone saying how the Packers offense is absolutely loaded, I am saying that Chicago fans seem to think that their skill position players are better than what the Packers have, so if Jay Cutler truly can be a SB winning QB, then one would think this would be the year to get it done. There evidently is no lack of talent surrounding him. That is the point I was trying to make. If he's going to win something at some point, it better be this year.
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Rodgers is the best player (not just QB) in the NFL. As long as Rodgers is at the helm, I can't pick against the Packers to win the North. He's in his prime, has some of the best weapons in football, and a pretty solid (when healthy) o-line. I've said Cobb would become a superstar, no player in the game is better at the sideline catch than Nelson. Lacy's a power back that compliments the offense very well.
Cutler should put up numbers with perhaps the best WR tandem in football. Forte is as good catching passes out of the backfield as anyone, although I think Bennett is at best a very slightly above avg TE. I'm not sure why a street FA just signed to camp, who has at best a 40% chance of making the final roster, is brought up in this argument. If Homles is healthy and his head is in the right place, that's fine, but counting on anything from him long term is absurd.
Bears expectations are to fight for a playoff spot (as they should be). No one should be talking Super Bowl. They're repairing a historically all time bad defense, their special teams right now are awful. As for Cutler, he needs to produce. It's year 2 under Trestman (which should benefit him), he's in great shape, and has weapons to do damage. If he does produce, the Bears should contend. If he doesn't, then the Bears have zero shot. It's fairly simple.
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Better skill players, with an upper middle of the pack QB will do well with a solid o-line.
Is the Bears o-line solid?
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Bears fans are the only ones talking about the talent at the skill positions. There are articles out there from analysts saying the bears feature the best WR duo in the league. So let's not paint it as coming just from a bunch if biased meatballs.
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Better skill players, with an upper middle of the pack QB will do well with a solid o-line.
Is the Bears o-line solid?
Not according to rankings, but we'll see. Generally ranked in bottom third in the league.
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From ESPN:
LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- The #NFLRank project launched on Monday in which ESPN ranks the top 100 players on offense and defense, and Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler checked in at No. 93.
In the grouping of players ranked from Nos. 91 through 100, Cutler was the lone quarterback, ranked one spot above Minnesota offensive tackle Matt Kalil, and one slot below Cincinnati offensive tackle Andrew Whitworth, and two places below Dallas Cowboys running back DeMarco Murray. Interestingly, Cutler's ranking likely means multiple Chicago Bears offensive players register higher rankings than the quarterback.
None of Chicago’s defenders were ranked 91 through 100.
According to ESPN Stats & Information, Cutler comes off a season in which he put together his best total QBR (66.4) over five seasons with the Bears. Cutler’s 92.5 total QBR in the fourth quarter ranked as No. 1 in the NFL.
Bears fans probably won’t be pleased with Cutler’s ranking, but from this vantage point, the quarterback’s place is just about right. The truth is it’s probably better for Cutler to fly under the radar than to go into the season overhyped anyway.
Based on what we’ve seen from Cutler so far this preseason (123.3 passer rating and a completion percentage of 72.7), he figures to take a major step forward operating in Year 2 of Marc Trestman’s system.
That should mean more victories in 2014, and naturally a better ranking going into the 2015 season.
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From ESPN:
In the grouping of players ranked from Nos. 91 through 100, Cutler was the lone quarterback, ranked one spot above Minnesota offensive tackle Matt Kalil, and one slot below Cincinnati offensive tackle Andrew Whitworth, and two places below Dallas Cowboys running back DeMarco Murray. Interestingly, Cutler's ranking likely means multiple Chicago Bears offensive players register higher rankings than the quarterback.
A simple guess would be the two WRs, Forte and maybe Bushrod.
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Not according to rankings, but we'll see. Generally ranked in bottom third in the league.
They had a solid, not-great, year last year. Battling a few injuries already this season. Let's hope.
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I understand that it's just the preseason but man all those weapons are really making this Bears offense look scary good in week 3 of the preseason tonight...
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I don't know about scary good, but I agree with Wades that the offense has looked good at times tonight.
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I don't know about scary good, but I agree with Wades that the offense has looked good at times tonight.
I am 99.9% sure he was being sarcastic.
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I am 99.9% sure he was being sarcastic.
Oh I know.
The post made no sense from the get go. If wades doesn't feel that Marshall, Jeffrey, Forte are any good as a skill position group, I don't know how to educate against it.
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Oh I know.
The post made no sense from the get go. If wades doesn't feel that Marshall, Jeffrey, Forte are any good as a skill position group, I don't know how to educate against it.
Didn't say they weren't good. 0 points in a half isn't very good no matter how you want to spin it though.
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Didn't say they weren't good. 0 points in a half isn't very good no matter how you want to spin it though.
If they didn't move the ball down the field, then I'd be worried.
45% pass completion at home, against the worst team in football this upcoming season...ain't very good. Yet, I'm not worried about Rodgers.
How cute.
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If they didn't move the ball down the field, then I'd be worried.
45% pass completion at home, against the worst team in football this upcoming season...ain't very good. Yet, I'm not worried about Rodgers.
How cute.
Not just that, but the Raiders handed the Packers a touchdown with Raider-esque penalties. Obviously the Packers offense was IMO hiding some things. The WRs ran pretty simple routes on base plays. But pre season is a terrible predictor for the regular season.
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But pre season is a terrible predictor for the regular season.
The year Detroit went 0-16, they went 4-0 in the preseason. So....yeah.
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If they didn't move the ball down the field, then I'd be worried.
45% pass completion at home, against the worst team in football this upcoming season...ain't very good. Yet, I'm not worried about Rodgers.
How cute.
This coming from the guy who said after the Texans first preseason game that while you can't take much away from a preseason game, there might be something wrong with the Texans after losing 32-0. 31-0 at half time with the starters playing for both sides would seem to be a worse and more worrisome showing than a preseason week 1 32-0 loss.
I would put a lot of money on the Raiders not being the worst team in football.
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Wades, you're constantly wrong with your football arguments, but gotta give you some credit that you stick to your guns, no matter how silly you sound.
Context is a valuable tool my friend.
Preseason absolutely matters. The Bears defense and special teams being awful last season, and still awful now in the preseason...that matters big time. Your entire ridiculous post about the Bears scary offensive weapons not looking good, how exactly did they not look good last night? Jeffrey dropped a pass, I agree that wasn't good. Marshall and Jeffrey combined otherwise had 8 catches for 82 yards in a half of football. Forte ran 3 times for 17 yds (5.7 avg). That's your entire point right there.
The Texans, with a new head coach, offensive minded, with the benefit of added OTA's (because of the new coaching staff), looking like an incompetent offense...that matters.
Please humor me and tell me who the worst team in football will be this year. Lay some money down, and post your wager ticket on here too. I put $20 already that Dennis Allen will be the first coach fired. I'm sure you're right though, with the additions of Matt Schaub, MJD, losing their two best players, playing the NFC West, AFC West, Patriots, losing a home game to play the Fins in London...I'm sure the Raiders will be just fine.
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Looks like BJ Raji has a torn bicep. Ugh.
He really f*cked up not taking that contract extension the Packers offered him last fall.
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This coming from the guy who said after the Texans first preseason game that while you can't take much away from a preseason game, there might be something wrong with the Texans after losing 32-0. 31-0 at half time with the starters playing for both sides would seem to be a worse and more worrisome showing than a preseason week 1 32-0 loss.
I would put a lot of money on the Raiders not being the worst team in football.
The troll game is strong with this one.
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Wades, you're constantly wrong with your football arguments, but gotta give you some credit that you stick to your guns, no matter how silly you sound.
Context is a valuable tool my friend.
Preseason absolutely matters. The Bears defense and special teams being awful last season, and still awful now in the preseason...that matters big time. Your entire ridiculous post about the Bears scary offensive weapons not looking good, how exactly did they not look good last night? Jeffrey dropped a pass, I agree that wasn't good. Marshall and Jeffrey combined otherwise had 8 catches for 82 yards in a half of football. Forte ran 3 times for 17 yds (5.7 avg). That's your entire point right there.
The Texans, with a new head coach, offensive minded, with the benefit of added OTA's (because of the new coaching staff), looking like an incompetent offense...that matters.
Please humor me and tell me who the worst team in football will be this year. Lay some money down, and post your wager ticket on here too. I put $20 already that Dennis Allen will be the first coach fired. I'm sure you're right though, with the additions of Matt Schaub, MJD, losing their two best players, playing the NFC West, AFC West, Patriots, losing a home game to play the Fins in London...I'm sure the Raiders will be just fine.
I prefer points on the board. It's preseason though, so Jay Cutler throwing an interception in the red zone is no big deal. Just drive the ball down the field in the preseason and that's good enough, Jay will fix the turnovers in the regular season, he's never had problems with red zone turnovers or anything...
The point is that you need a good quarterback in this league. Someone who values the football. When you have an average quarterback who turns the ball over a lot, especially in the red zone, you can put all the weapons in the world around him and the best you'll do is maybe win 1 playoff game in 7 years as a starter (like Jay Cutler). If Jay valued the football, maybe I'd be slightly worry about what the Bears could do offensively. As it is, well, I'll let Chuck Woodson put it into words:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
"It's the same old Jay. Jay will throw us the ball. He'll throw the ball to the defense." Until he proves otherwise (not holding my breath), I'll continue to look forward to playing the Bears with Jay under center, regardless of whether the skill position players are as good as they come or as bad as they were when Rex Grossman was leading them to a Super Bowl appearance.
The Texans lose 32-0 week 1 of the preseason and win 32-7 week 2. I don't think the first week was a sign of how screwed the Texans are, and I don't think the 2nd week was a sign of how great the Texans are. Sure, you can see some things in the preseason. But I'm not ready to say, "Well, every drive we've had Eddy Lacy in the backfield for we've gone 3 minutes and a touchdown" and conclude we're the best offense in the history of football. So I'll poke a little fun at a 31-0 drought for the Bears starters last night.
If I'm putting money on 1 team as the worst in the league I'd say Jacksonville. Other teams that I think may be worse than the Raiders would be Cleveland, Buffalo, and Tampa. Houston would be in there but I think they get a couple wins in the awful (outside of Indianapolis, but in my opinion I'd take my chances with them over any other top divisional team) division.
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Looks like BJ Raji has a torn bicep. Ugh.
He really f*cked up not taking that contract extension the Packers offered him last fall.
That legit sucks. Hate hearing these guys going out for the year before real action starts.
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Time will tell, but the Rams had all these high picks and never added a QB. I get it to a degree, Bradford's contract was before the new CBA, but if his season is over, that's poor management. Especially with Robinson not starting tonight.
I wonder if Robinson over Bortles will someday go down as a gigantic mistake.
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Here's one man's take on the 2014 NFL season.
2 years ago on here, I called the Seahawks as my sleeper. Last year, it was the Chiefs (correct), Bucs (not correct), and Dolphins (almost correct). This years is much more difficult to call. If history repeats itself, the sleeper team this year should come from either the AFC South or NFC East. The two candidates that stand out are the Texans and Redskins. Problem is, backing Ryan Fitzpatrick with a rookie head coach, and backing a brutal Redskins defense with a rookie head coach. They won't make the playoffs, but my super sleeper team this year...the Jacksonville Jaguars. This comes with an * though. Their first four games are brutal, but I think that actually helps them. If they decided to go to Bortles after a month, and he is what he has shown, their final 12 games set up nicely.
Quick thoughts...
-NFC East and AFC South are terrible. If the Cardinals were in the AFC South, they'd win that division.
-In the AFC, I think the Broncos and Pats are head and shoulder's better than anyone else in the conference. I also think Denver takes a step back offensively.
-I had to sell my Browns stock. I hate the Johnny Football pick, with Gordon probably suspended as well, this team continues to find ways to lose. Although Terrance West is my pick for rookie of the year.
-I think if one elite team from a year ago is going to fall off slightly and possibly miss the playoffs, it’s the Niners.
Playoff Picks:
AFC: Pats, Broncos, Colts (I hate this pick, if that division was better, someone would dethrone them), Bengals. Wild cards: Jets, Ravens
NFC: Seahawks, Packers, Saints, Redskins. Wild cards: Eagles, Bucs
In the NFC North, all teams have warts, mainly on defense. That said, it’s impossible for me to pick against Green Bay. Best player/QB in the league, best offense in the division. I think Lang can be first team All Pro at guard this year. They still have issues on defense, but have added some decent pieces to the mix. If Peppers is motivated and productive, that unit can be very good with Matthews and Peppers rushing from opposite sides.
I think the Bears are masked as an 8-8 team. Their offense will be fine, year 2 under Trestman and his system, they should continue to put up great numbers. I think their run defense is better (it can’t be worse), but the unit overall is really bad. Their LB’s can’t play, period. Briggs is done (in my opinion), he’s old and slow. Their safeties are still a revolving door. I think at the end of the year, Fuller and Young will be their two best defenders, but the rest of the unit is pretty poor. Their special teams will cost them at least one game (probably two).
If Caldwell wasn’t the Lions head coach, I’d like them a lot more. The additions of Tate and Ebron I think really help Stafford. The defense though still worries me. Lions best case scenario is a wild card run (they have a chance).
If I loved Bridgewater more, I’d probably pick the Vikings as my sleeper team. I love Zimmer, I thought that was a great hire. I think Patterson is going to have a huge year. The Vikings are going to cause a lot of problems for people this year. Losing the Dome hurts them though. I like the direction they are headed.
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I think you're pretty much on the money. I like the eagles Andy Dallas a tick more than the redskins, though I wouldn't want to argue hard for any of the three.
I like New Orleans to challenge Seattle for the NFC and likely face Denver of New England in the Super Bowl.
As far as the NFC North goes, I think you are pretty spot on. GB looks to be the best team and probably third in the NFC. I was very high on the Bears heading into the off season, but have cooled appreciably in the last couple months leading up to and including training camp. I just don't see enough there. 8-8, maybe even worse is now about what I expect. I think the Lions will challenge GB for the division, and I think the Vikings could have a decent year, but their QB situation will likely cost them too many games to seriously threaten anyone.
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I think you're pretty much on the money. I like the eagles Andy Dallas a tick more than the redskins, though I wouldn't want to argue hard for any of the three.
I like New Orleans to challenge Seattle for the NFC and likely face Denver of New England in the Super Bowl.
As far as the NFC North goes, I think you are pretty spot on. GB looks to be the best team and probably third in the NFC. I was very high on the Bears heading into the off season, but have cooled appreciably in the last couple months leading up to and including training camp. I just don't see enough there. 8-8, maybe even worse is now about what I expect. I think the Lions will challenge GB for the division, and I think the Vikings could have a decent year, but their QB situation will likely cost them too many games to seriously threaten anyone.
The more I think about the Bears, the more I agree with you. 2 months ago I thought they could be a 10-6 team, I have a real hard time seeing that. They could be bottom 5 in the league in both defense and special teams, and there's no way a team like that (no matter the offense) can compete for a playoff spot.
I keep trying to talk myself into the Lions, but I can't get past Caldwell and their defense, especially that secondary.
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The Lions have lots of issues, as per usual. Is Stafford ready to become more than just another Jeff George? Can the line keep him upright? Can Reggie Bush hold onto the football? Defensively, especially with their highest defensive draft pick looking to go on the IR, Nick Fairley dogging it to the point of being demoted, and the usual Spinal-Tap drummer quality to the secondary.... well, it is just another year.
I am withholding judgment on Caldwell because he isn't Schwarz. If he does turn out to be a QB whisperer, the Lions could get to 10-6. My instinct tells me that it will be the same old Lions. 6-10.
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For any gambling types out there, Jordy is 28-1 to lead the NFL in receiving yards. Fantastic value there.
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If Michael Sam can play, he'll get drafted and be on an NFL team. 90-95% of his teammates won't care that he's gay. The only time an issue would arise would be if the media can get one of the other 5-10% of his teammates to say something derogatory. The media is definitely going to try. If he's a fringe player, teams won't want to draft/sign him for fear of the backlash they'd face if they cut him. Sam could end up like Tim Tebow where he's talented enough to be on an NFL roster, but the media circus that surrounds him makes him nearly impossible to employ.
I wish him the best.
I will point out that Michael Sam was drafted as a fringe player. No one is really criticizing the Rams for waiving him because he clearly was given a fair shot and showed that he had work to do. Furthermore he was never the distraction that the likes of Tony Dungy thought he would be.
In other words, everything worked out just fine. An openly gay player was in the NFL and the world didn't end.
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It turned out to be a perfectly normal experience from a football standpoint. The only issues were with media looking for something else to hype and other small minded people.
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I will point out that Michael Sam was drafted as a fringe player. No one is really criticizing the Rams for waiving him because he clearly was given a fair shot and showed that he had work to do. Furthermore he was never the distraction that the likes of Tony Dungy thought he would be.
In other words, everything worked out just fine. An openly gay player was in the NFL and the world didn't end.
All of this. To be honest im tired of the media attention to it. Its like ESPN is overcompensating to be this "ra-ra" Michael Sam cheerleader. I can assure you that Michael and most liberals like myself would rather it be a non-issue and not get all of the hype that it has. Hopefully one day it will come to that.
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All of this. To be honest im tired of the media attention to it. Its like ESPN is overcompensating to be this "ra-ra" Michael Sam cheerleader. I can assure you that Michael and most liberals like myself would rather it be a non-issue and not get all of the hype that it has. Hopefully one day it will come to that.
Unfortunately, we are the minority.
ESPN does it only because it drives ratings. Same reason that you see the rags at the grocery store. Do know who they are, but there are millions of people that actually buy that stuff.
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Wesley Freaking Welker juices?! HAHA! That is absolutely hilarious.
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Wesley Freaking Welker juices?! HAHA! That is absolutely hilarious.
I still don't understand the NFL's policy of not informing what the substance is that each player is found guilty of.
Also, Welker could have been doing "molly" and gotten that suspension. Doesn't necessarily mean steroids.
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I still don't understand the NFL's policy of not informing what the substance is that each player is found guilty of.
Also, Welker could have been doing "molly" and gotten that suspension. Doesn't necessarily mean steroids.
What are the odds??
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/506942152643854337
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Wesley Freaking Welker juices?! HAHA! That is absolutely hilarious.
He wasn't juicing, he used amphetamine's, big difference.
Still got caught though, given his concussion history, not surprised at all he was on them.
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He wasn't juicing, he used amphetamine's, big difference.
Still got caught though, given his concussion history, not surprised at all he was on them.
He really should consider retiring.
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He really should consider retiring.
No question about it.
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He wasn't juicing, he used amphetamine's, big difference.
Still got caught though, given his concussion history, not surprised at all he was on them.
According to the report, this was based on taking "molly" once at the Kentucky Derby. and it was laced with amphetamines. Is there any evidence he was a chronic user?
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According to the report, this was based on taking "molly" once at the Kentucky Derby. and it was laced with amphetamines. Is there any evidence he was a chronic user?
Not that I know of, but given his age, physical/mental condition his body was in, his behavior at the Derby (reported), this might be surprising, but not shocking.
Irony is this is probably best thing that could have happened to him.
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The 2011 NFL draft...holy crap. I knew it was good, but possibly could be GOAT.
We talked about it on this board at the time, and have since, but the overreaction to reach for a mediocre college QB because your team has a need there is such a huge mistake.
Check out these '11 1st rounders...
Cam, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, AJ Green, Patrick Petereson, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith (Titans took Locker one pick before T. Smith), JJ Watt (Jags took Gabbert one pick before Watt), Robert Quinn (Vikings took Ponder two picks before Quinn), Mike Pouncey, Kerrigan, Solder, Cameron Jordan, Jimmy Smith.
Bears picked a bad year to be good...they took Carimi at 29. Pack took Sherrod at 32.
You can make a #1 seed playoff team out of guys picked after the first round. To name a few...Dalton, Kaepernick, Kyle Rudolph, Torrey Smith, Cobb, Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Jordan Cameron, Julius Thomas, Richard Sherman.
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Viking fans...The more I look at it, the more I really like the Vikes this year. I legit believe they will finish second in the North. I think the Lions/Bears are probably 7-9/8-8 teams, I think Vikes are an 8 win team.
I love Zimmer. I think with Norv running the offense, with AD, Patterson, Ruldolph, good line, they're going to be a pain to play each week. They are a great longshot to win the North if you like gambling.
Are my expectations too high?
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Viking fans...The more I look at it, the more I really like the Vikes this year. I legit believe they will finish second in the North. I think the Lions/Bears are probably 7-9/8-8 teams, I think Vikes are an 8 win team.
I love Zimmer. I think with Norv running the offense, with AD, Patterson, Ruldolph, good line, they're going to be a pain to play each week. They are a great longshot to win the North if you like gambling.
Are my expectations too high?
Yup. Worst starting QB and receivers in the NFC North and it's not like AP is miles ahead of Forte and Lacy.
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Yup. Worst starting QB and receivers in the NFC North and it's not like AP is miles ahead of Forte and Lacy.
I want to argue with you, but technically, I can't.
I don't think the vikes were as bad as their record last season. They lost a lot of close games. A reasonable bump in offensive and defensive performance (better QB play, healthier & younger defense) and they could with 7+ games.
The stadium situation is a little unknown. I assume it will hurt them, but I guess I'm not sure how much. This isn't Dennis Green's turf-Vikes of the mid 90's.
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Yup. Worst starting QB and receivers in the NFC North and it's not like AP is miles ahead of Forte and Lacy.
Depends if AP is still on whatever he took to come back from a shredded knee in 8 months and have arguably the best season a running back has ever had or not.
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I like him as a prospect, and know first NFL game in Seattle is a real tough debut, but Clinton Dix having a real rough night.
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Same beautiful defense from the Pack.
spinning tires.
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Dom, your defense tonight, woof.
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I like him as a prospect, and know first NFL game in Seattle is a real tough debut, but Clinton Dix having a real rough night.
He has played ok. I wouldn't call it a rough debut. He missed a couple of tackles but also recovered a fumble, had a couple of stops for no gain in run support and broke up a pass, granted he should have had a pick but he was in good position.
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Remember when Chris Collinsworth was a good announcer? Yea, me neither.
Forgot how much I hate most football announcers in the offseason
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Matthews has been really good tonight, I like what I've seen from Peppers too. Peppers goes invisible for stretches (which he did last year too), but I like how Matthews and Peppers compliment one another. You can tell Matthews really enjoys playing with Peppers, he's arguably (even at his age now) the best standup LB Matthews has played with.
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The only thing the Packers do consistently well is rack up injuries.
Must have the worst middle linebackers in all of football.
Key injuries where they have no depth - OL (Bulaga, Tretter, Barclay) and DL (Raji).
Not sure McCarthy ever realized that they gained zero yards on any plays run to the outside.
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Hate to be negative this early but GB probably has the worst strength and conditioning program in the NFL. Judging by getting pushed around on D for the last 5 years and racking up injuries at an alarming rate.
Looks like the same old defense. Doesn't appear like Thompson can fix the problem.
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Classic Rodgers drive, carries team on his back, guy's a stud. Didn't have an incomplete pass entire drive.
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Hate to be negative this early but GB probably has the worst strength and conditioning program in the NFL. Judging by getting pushed around on D for the last 5 years and racking up injuries at an alarming rate.
Looks like the same old defense. Doesn't appear like Thompson can fix the problem.
You're right. Having a lot of injuries can be random, but not when it is every year. By the end of the 1st half of the 1st game - already 5 starters + top OL backup are down.
Add to that the worst inside LB duo in the league and it could be a long year. Brad Jones had the biggest play of the 1st half AND the biggest play of the 2nd half on defense - both holding calls. Don't think he would start on any other NFL team.
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Classic Rodgers drive, carries team on his back, guy's a stud. Didn't have an incomplete pass entire drive.
Where'd he carry 'em to? L-city.
SKOL VIKINGS. Great story brewing in Minneapolis this year.
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Where'd he carry 'em to? L-city.
SKOL VIKINGS. Great story brewing in Minneapolis this year.
I'm on the Vikings bandwagon.
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Where'd he carry 'em to? L-city.
SKOL VIKINGS. Great story brewing in Minneapolis this year.
Can I ask what that great story might be?
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Tough to figure out what to make of the Pack after this one. Playing at Seattle sucks, it's nearly a no win situation right now for the visitor.
That said, the o-line injuries are a real big concern. I'd imagine Britton gets a call from Thompson this weekend, I think he'd be a better pick up than Winston right now.
Brad Jones...man, that holding call with 7 mins to go was a killer. Some sloppy penalties all around tonight. Run defense...ugh.
The key guys played really well I thought...Rodgers, Jordy, Cobb, Matthews, Sam Shields (I thought had a hell of a night).
I think if the Pack came out 2-2 after their first four, they'll be fine. 1-3 would be a concern, but they're too good in my opinion.
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going into Seattle tonight was like going into a buzz saw. No chance from the start for GB. That said, Packers should still win the division, just like every other year. In rodgers i trust, even though he looked a little sloppy.
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Can I ask what that great story might be?
Picked last, win the division. So many guys stepping up for us.
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Guion did 1 thing well all night...and that was get absolutely blown off the line all night. He might as well not have been on the field. While Raji isn't good either, at least he could eat some space in the run game. Our inside linebackers are horrible, Brad Jones might be the worst starting player at any position in the NFL. OLBs and DBs will actually be pretty decent this year.
If Bulaga is our (okay, who am I kidding, he'll be done for the year) for any amount of time the OLine is in trouble.
Gotta love McCarthy. Wait to open up the offense until it's 29-10 in the 4th. Great offensive mind. One of the most frustrating playcallers I've ever seen. Loves to be as predictable as they come in the first 3 quarters and sets up a ton of 3rd and long, pass only situations. That's not a recipe for success. I also cannot stand that in his press conferences he talks about needing to tackle better and eliminate the penalties every single week for the past 4 years. You can talk about it as much as you want. If you haven't fixed in in 4 years, it gets old.
Seahawks are clearly the better team. Ballhawks everywhere on defense and know how to tackle. A complete team. No real weakness offensively or defensively. And a playcaller who is willing to mix it up. Hate Carroll but he has his teams much more ready to go than McCarthy does.
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Picked last, win the division. So many guys stepping up for us.
With Matt Cassle and Teddy Bridgewater as your options at QB? Sorry, but you can be good everywhere else, but you aren't a contender with those 2 QBs. And AP is bound to get tested for steroids sooner or later, so there's that coming.
Don't get me wrong, they'll win some games against some good teams. But with those 2 QBs there is no way they go to the Playoffs.
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With Matt Cassle and Teddy Bridgewater as your options at QB? Sorry, but you can be good everywhere else, but you aren't a contender with those 2 QBs. And AP is bound to get tested for steroids sooner or later, so there's that coming.
Bad QB + very average defense = great story.
Bur, I like Zimmer and think he will do a good job if given enough time to turn things around.
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Sounds like Bulaga's injury may not be serious. That is big, but the OLine is still incredibly thin. If Sherrod has to enter the game the Packers are in trouble.
I expect a 12-4 or 11-5 season and a division title, but man, you really need something more out of the DLine and ILBs. Not sure where you're going to get that from, so that's an issue.
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I don't know what to fully think about last night, but some thoughts:
1. For all the talk about improved defense, I have my doubts. I think the DL and ILBs are substandard and are going to cause problems against the run.
2. McCarthy really should allow the quick no huddle offense to be played more often.
3. The OL is scary thin. Sherrod is terrible.
But I will tell you this. Seattle is a damn good team. I have no trouble seeing that team winning back to back.
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Seattle is very good.
Packers looked unprepared, lousy offensive plan, defense looked bad, but not going to read too much I to it yet.
O-line injuries made things exponentially worse.
Looked bad, but it's just a loss in a game they would have lost even if they looked good. Not going to try to judge too much off this one.
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Seattle is very good.
Packers looked unprepared, lousy offensive plan, defense looked bad, but not going to read too much I to it yet.
O-line injuries made things exponentially worse.
Looked bad, but it's just a loss in a game they would have lost even if they looked good. Not going to try to judge too much off this one.
I thought the secondary played well, but the front 7 was terrible. The defensive line was pushed back three yards consistently. Go figure that a Vikings' cut (Guion) isn't the answer at NT. That position needs to be addressed immediately.
I agree that we shouldn't read too much into it; Seattle is a really, really good team. The defense is obviously amazing and that offense is scary with Harvin healty. The Packers will be fine, but they do need to address issues on the Dline and the Oline. Way too much getting pushed around.
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Anyone notice TJ Lang give Brother Rice a shout out during his intro? The Warriors are about to 4peat as State Champs in Michigan this year. Worship
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Guion did 1 thing well all night...and that was get absolutely blown off the line all night. He might as well not have been on the field. While Raji isn't good either, at least he could eat some space in the run game. Our inside linebackers are horrible, Brad Jones might be the worst starting player at any position in the NFL. OLBs and DBs will actually be pretty decent this year.
If Bulaga is our (okay, who am I kidding, he'll be done for the year) for any amount of time the OLine is in trouble.
Gotta love McCarthy. Wait to open up the offense until it's 29-10 in the 4th. Great offensive mind. One of the most frustrating playcallers I've ever seen. Loves to be as predictable as they come in the first 3 quarters and sets up a ton of 3rd and long, pass only situations. That's not a recipe for success. I also cannot stand that in his press conferences he talks about needing to tackle better and eliminate the penalties every single week for the past 4 years. You can talk about it as much as you want. If you haven't fixed in in 4 years, it gets old.
Seahawks are clearly the better team. Ballhawks everywhere on defense and know how to tackle. A complete team. No real weakness offensively or defensively. And a playcaller who is willing to mix it up. Hate Carroll but he has his teams much more ready to go than McCarthy does.
I agree with you, and if we get another season of this crap again I think McCarthy should be gone and they should bring Darrell Bevell in.
Also frustrating because Capers has another built in excuse this year given the complete joke of personnel for the interior defenders at the DL and LB levels.
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I agree with you, and if we get another season of this crap again I think McCarthy should be gone and they should bring Darrell Bevell in.
Also frustrating because Capers has another built in excuse this year given the complete joke of personnel for the interior defenders at the DL and LB levels.
The offense started to click once the Seahawks were sitting back in coverage a bit more, I don't think it had a lot to do with different or more creative playcalling. Rodgers can do whatever he wants if defenses stop coming after him. I do agree that a lot of times, the Packers play calling seems predictable, and our third and long play seems to consistently be, "everyone run deep and come back to the ball if Rodgers hasn't been sacked after 5 seconds." Certainly not ready to indict McCarthy after a poor showing against the best defense since the early-2000s Bucs though.
On defense, I totally agree, the personnel just looked bad in the front 7. Capers can draw up whatever weird formations he wants, it won't matter if the line is getting pushed back 3 yards every play. None of the down linemen were holding their ground or being disruptive. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike Pennel play a bit more at the NT, and I also wouldn't be surprised to see Ryan Pickett re-signed. Brad Jones was invisible and AJ Hawk is AJ Hawk.
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I agree with you, and if we get another season of this crap again I think McCarthy should be gone and they should bring Darrell Bevell in.
McCarthy and our offense are the problem with this team?? That's a stretch.
Thompson's dismal d drafting and inability to fix the S&C has much more to do with our mediocrity.
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Anyone notice TJ Lang give Brother Rice a shout out during his intro? The Warriors are about to 4peat as State Champs in Michigan this year. Worship
Follow him on twitter and he still seems to be involved with them, pretty cool exposure for them I'm sure.
As far as the game I think Bulaga's injury may have cost them the game. Had a chance to come back but that right side was blown up. We'll see how the team responds against a much more pedestrian Jets team...its a 16 game season for a reason and expecting a W in Seattle was probably asking a lot.
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Make sure your drafting Jarrett Boykin this year.
Good start.
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Good start.
You realize that the Packers intentionally used him as a decoy to limit Sherman's involvement right?
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You realize that the Packers intentionally used him as a decoy to limit Sherman's involvement right?
Not only Boykins, but they also split Quarles and Rodgers wide to Sherman's side as well.
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You realize that the Packers intentionally used him as a decoy to limit Sherman's involvement right?
Yes. I don't know about you, but when I see a guy who doesn't do anything in the preseason and gets targeted 0 times and is used strictly as a decoy in the first game, I'm personally not thinking, "I need to make sure I'm drafting Jarrett Boykin this year" for fantasy football.
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Tough news on Bulaga, torn MCL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pack used their IR designation already on Tretter, which puts them in a tough spot here with Bulaga. They can keep him on the 53 and make him a gameday inactive, but it'll cost a roster spot (assuming he's back in 4-8 weeks). My guess here is they would do that, and cut someone else to make room.
Pack catches a break with the extended time off, but tough break because the Jets defensive line is pretty good.
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Tough news on Bulaga, torn MCL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pack used their IR designation already on Tretter, which puts them in a tough spot here with Bulaga. They can keep him on the 53 and make him a gameday inactive, but it'll cost a roster spot (assuming he's back in 4-8 weeks). My guess here is they would do that, and cut someone else to make room.
Pack catches a break with the extended time off, but tough break because the Jets defensive line is pretty good.
Really? Dear lord that guy has weaker knees than Derrick Rose. It looked like absolutely nothing happened. No bending at a weird angle, no buckling, no hyperextending. I figured it was a torn ACL anyways just based on his history, but then earlier today it sounded like he'd be day to day. Wow. Not good for the Pack. They probably should keep him on the active roster, but what happens when he comes back and just hurts it the first game back anyways?
You are correct on Tretter.
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Looks like it's a sprained, not torn MCL, on Bulaga. This is per ESPN and the JSOnline.
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Looks like it's a sprained, not torn MCL, on Bulaga. This is per ESPN and the JSOnline.
And might not even miss a game.
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And might not even miss a game.
That's better to hear, if it's just an MCL sprain, he'll be fine, and the extra time off only helps.
Still think they bring someone in off the street to test out for depth.
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Even with Richard Sherman being Richard Sherman, I don't understand throwing 0 times to his side of the field. Limiting your offense to 1/2 the field makes it much easier for the D. And, I'd be saying that no matter who was playing.
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Even with Richard Sherman being Richard Sherman, I don't understand throwing 0 times to his side of the field. Limiting your offense to 1/2 the field makes it much easier for the D. And, I'd be saying that no matter who was playing.
Agreed.
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Even with Richard Sherman being Richard Sherman, I don't understand throwing 0 times to his side of the field. Limiting your offense to 1/2 the field makes it much easier for the D. And, I'd be saying that no matter who was playing.
Sort of reminds me of how teams played against Nnamdi Asomugha. Never throw his way and you never realize that he's actually not all he's cracked up to be anymore. When a CB's reputation precedes them teams overreact and end up propping that player up to undeserved standards by not throwing to their side of the field.
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Even with Richard Sherman being Richard Sherman, I don't understand throwing 0 times to his side of the field. Limiting your offense to 1/2 the field makes it much easier for the D. And, I'd be saying that no matter who was playing.
Your game plan is to beat the best defense in the league and do it on only half the field? And putting your weakest receiver to Sherman's side means the safeties only have to play half the field as well.
I guess these guys are a lot smarter than us.
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Bear effin down. Let's go.
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http://on.aol.com/video/bears-brandon-marshall-says-there-is-still-hope-517591361
Haha. FUMBLE!
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Well, Cutler made it through 1 quarter without pouting at least. And without a turnover.
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There still seem to be quite a few penalties called. Makes for a choppy game. My problem with it is more that sometimes they don't call what seems like an obvious penalty and then a play later they'll call something that seems to be extremely touchy. Just a general observation switching through channels today.
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Quick thoughts...
-Garza having terrible afternoon.
-Big mistake if you drafted Nick Foles
-Like the Vikes defensive effort, even against bad Rams offense
-Cleveland's worse than I thought
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I don't know, Philly started off terribly last year too.
Need to give it some time, Jags have been game planning for Philly all off season.
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I don't know, Philly started off terribly last year too.
Need to give it some time, Jags have been game planning for Philly all off season.
Philly destroyed Washington Week 1 last year.
Eagles defense is average at best, DJax is gone, half their offensive line is injured/suspended, and Foles will naturally regress.
Plus Jax is my sleeper team :-)
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Looking like a good call.
Jax's D has been looking good. And Cecil Shorts isn't even in on O. Gus Bradley is a Pete Carrol disciple, his guys look ripped and quick on D.
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Jared Allen's been invisible.
Really like Willie Young. Bears LB's are terrible.
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Jared Allen's been invisible.
Really like Willie Young. Bears LB's are terrible.
Not as bad as the Packers ILBs.
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Bills are getting hosed on some of these PI calls.
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Starting Cutler in one of my fantasy leagues and he goes and throws it to a d lineman. Man almight!
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That was awful by Cutler.
Browns...geez.
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I actually think Foles is legitimately a good quarterback. 27 touchdowns to 2 INTs good? No. But he may be a top 10 QB in the NFL. Definitely in that second tier (Luck/Stafford/Cutler/Rivers/Ryan/Foles/Newton/Romo/Wilson/Kaepernick/Rothlisburger/Dalton/Flacco - some of these may be closer to the 1st tier, others closer to the 3rd tier) behind the Brady/Breese/Manning/Rodgers first tier. Every QB has a bad half here or there. I think he'll be okay.
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A prime example right there. Touchy pass interference calls throughout the Bears games, then with 0:30 seconds left there's a fairly clear hold on the defensive back that goes uncalled.
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A prime example right there. Touchy pass interference calls throughout the Bears games, then with 0:30 seconds left there's a fairly clear hold on the defensive back that goes uncalled.
That play call though begged for play action or a Forte run on 3rd and 1. Forte is main reason Bears are in this game.
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Lots of Bears' injuries today
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That play call though begged for play action or a Forte run on 3rd and 1. Forte is main reason Bears are in this game.
Can't disagree with that. Just saying that this "emphasis" on these calls makes for more controversial calls than anything. You make these touchy calls, you better not miss an obvious one.
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Manuel is lucky Williams got so open and then made a nice catch in traffic for him. That throw was a dying duck.
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Chris Conte doing Chris Conte things
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SKOL VIKINGS!
Bears drop one at home; Packers whipped.
Nice start for the CONSENSUS!!!
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This is going to be a long year for the Bears. They are not good. Losing to Bills at home...real bad.
Cutler wasn't good, defense stinks.
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Patriots, Bears, Saints, Packers all lose in week 1 (at least it looks like it for the Saints)
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Brees, Brady, Rodgers all have bad games in week 1.
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Patriots, Bears, Saints, Packers all lose in week 1 (at least it looks like it for the Saints)
Difference among those teams is all lost on road, to good/decent teams except one, the Bears.
You can not lose to the Bills at home, with all offseason to prepare. Cutler was brutal in second half/OT.
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Difference among those teams is all lost on road, to good/decent teams except one, the Bears.
You can not lose to the Bills at home, with all offseason to prepare. Cutler was brutal in second half/OT.
Cutler was Cutler.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
Bears drop one at home; Packers whipped.
Nice start for the CONSENSUS!!!
They stopped the Rams juggernaut today, Jay Bee.
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Difference among those teams is all lost on road, to good/decent teams except one, the Bears.
You can not lose to the Bills at home, with all offseason to prepare. Cutler was brutal in second half/OT.
Agreed. Just pointing out that 4 teams that many think have a chance to make a run in the Playoffs are starting 0-1. Obviously not going to make or break a season in week 1, but just an interesting start.
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This is going to be a long year for the Bears. They are not good. Losing to Bills at home...real bad.
Cutler wasn't good, defense stinks.
Cutler was fine. Jesus this sentiment needs to stop. First int was on Bennett 2nd was bad but he still had what 350 padding yards? The real loser is Phil Emery. I said it back in May and I'll say it again. Drafting Kyle Fuller was an AWFUL decision.
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They stopped the Rams juggernaut today, Jay Bee.
Don't worry, this is what BeeJay does come NFL season. Even he knows the truth, he just likes to have fun with it. Once the Vikings are 3-5 and the Packers are 6-2 he'll have to fall back to calling the Packers "Green Ghey" and saying "Erin Rodgers likes men." It changes quickly enough.
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Cutler was fine. Jesus this sentiment needs to stop. First int was on Bennett 2nd was bad but he still had what 350 padding yards? The real loser is Phil Emery. I said it back in May and I'll say it again. Drafting Kyle Fuller was an AWFUL decision.
We watched a different game then. That second pick was a throw you can not make, period. The 3rd and 1 call late either should have been checked out of or not thrown to Holmes.
He should have been picked in OT. Bad decision making when Bears needed him most.
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We watched a different game then. That second pick was a throw you can not make, period. The 3rd and 1 call late either should have been checked out of or not thrown to Holmes.
He should have been picked in OT. Bad decision making when Bears needed him most.
Yup should've been picked in OT, and made a poor decision throwing the ball to Marshall on the flee flicker in the first half. It was either going to be an incompletion or an interception. The execution of that play was awful. In fact, the play calling for that entire series was terrible. They march down the field with ease on their first drive and then try pulling gimmicky plays throughout the entire 2nd series, with 0 success.
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Cowboys turn it over for a scoop and score in their first series and now are driving down the field with ease. Turnovers are so absolutely critical in the NFL. If you don't turn the ball over you can play an average game everywhere else and still have a great chance to win the game. If you turn the ball over you can play a great game otherwise and still lose the game.
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What sucks the most is I'd rather have found out the Bears were mediocre/bad around week 6 instead of now. Wheels have a chance to fall off quick, two tricky back to back road night games on opposite sides of the country, followed by Pack at home.
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Romo might like the turnover more than Cutler does.
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Romo might like the turnover more than Cutler does.
And he gets his receivers killed in the process
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Surprised how terrible Bucs look. Offense has been pathetic.
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Cutler was fine. Jesus this sentiment needs to stop. First int was on Bennett 2nd was bad but he still had what 350 padding yards? The real loser is Phil Emery. I said it back in May and I'll say it again. Drafting Kyle Fuller was an AWFUL decision.
This game showed exactly why cutler has made the playoffs once in 8 years.
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Chris Conte doing Chris Conte things
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2190428-bills-fred-jackson-shoves-bears-chris-conte-off-with-2-strong-stiff-arms
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This game showed exactly why cutler has made the playoffs once in 8 years.
I am so sick of this. If Marion barber doesn't fumble the football the bears make the playoffs. If Chris Conte knew how to play defense the bears also make the playoffs. Cutler had a better game then Rodgers yet he gets ripped. That's what pisses me off about this argument.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2190428-bills-fred-jackson-shoves-bears-chris-conte-off-with-2-strong-stiff-arms
Apparently Conte said after the game he was trying to grab and strip Jackson because he knew a tackle at that point wouldn't make a difference. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's Chris Conte
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Terrible decision by Panthers.
2:06 left, they down kickoff in end zone. Drives me nuts.
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Apparently Conte said after the game he was trying to grab and strip Jackson because he knew a tackle at that point wouldn't make a difference. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's Chris Conte
Except he approached Jackson at the 25 on a bad angle, made first contact at the 20 (37 yard field goal is not a gimme), and got rode down to inside the one. More so, he was out of position also on an earlier big run. Bears defensive tackles are the issue, their linebackers are weak or over the hill, but Conte fits in that group.
As for the Coach Killer, his issues are the same as they always have: poor mechanics under pressure and bad decision-making when rushed. He will make plays one way or the other.
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Here's a question. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe people think the 9ers will fall out of contention before their entire team is released from jail, but why does everyone seem to have written off the 49ers? I thought even before the Cowboys just beat themselves that they're still probably the 2nd best team in the NFC but it seems like everyone assumes it will come down to the Packers, Seahawks, or Saints with the Falcons as the next most likely, and I've seen a lot of Cardinals predictions for 2nd in the NFC West. The only team to have really challenged the Seahawks last year were the 49ers. Much like Pete Carroll, I hate Harbough but he certainly gets his teams to consistently perform better than McCarthy does, and McCarthy gets all sorts of praise. Harbough has absolutely owned McCarthy head to head.
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Regarding the Niners, the injuries/suspensions on D are worrisome. Harbaugh trying to bolt the organization behind the scenes isn't a good sign.
I thought they are a 9-7 team, they may be, or could be better than that. Their early schedule helps them out, so maybe they are a double digit win team.
Dallas is not good, at all. I think Niners read option the Bears into the ground next Sunday night and slap the Bears around all night.
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Except he approached Jackson at the 25 on a bad angle, made first contact at the 20 (37 yard field goal is not a gimme), and got rode down to inside the one. More so, he was out of position also on an earlier big run. Bears defensive tackles are the issue, their linebackers are weak or over the hill, but Conte fits in that group.
On Manuel's TD run in the first half, it was read option and Conte was flat footed in the middle of the field. He was massively out of position for either the run or the keep. It's one thing if he bites bad on the fake, but to be out of position on both is awful.
Cutler did lose 2 starting OL, Jeffrey, and 50% of Marshall throughout the game. I thought his pocket presence was improved, but he didn't handle those losses well as the game went on. He looked fantastic in the first half, and that shovel pass as he was getting spun down was fantastic. Here's to hoping none of the injuries are serious...
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Cutler was Cutler.
Beat me to it.
He is a GM and coach's nightmare. You gotta keep him, gotta pay him big bucks because he has too much raw talent and other teams will gladly pay him. And if you dump him, you have to start all over again looking for a QB - something the Bears "perfected" during the two decades between McMahon and Cutler.
But, he is who he is and he'll never change. Two, three, five times a game he kills the team.
That's why he has been a GM and coach killer his entire career. Can't live with him, can't shoot him.
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Vikes looked amazing against a bad team.
They are limited offensively, (lets not confuse Cassell with Rodgers), but they have some explosive playmakers at skill positions, and the defense could be good this year (they have some talent on that side of the ball).
I was thinking 7-9, but if they get a couple of breaks, they could be 9-7.
Interesting to see how they play at home (outdoors). That stadium could be pretty fun in Sept. and Oct. (nice weather).
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Vikes looked amazing against a bad team.
They are limited offensively, (lets not confuse Cassell with Rodgers), but they have some explosive playmakers at skill positions, and the defense could be good this year (they have some talent on that side of the ball).
I was thinking 7-9, but if they get a couple of breaks, they could be 9-7.
Interesting to see how they play at home (outdoors). That stadium could be pretty fun in Sept. and Oct. (nice weather).
I grabbed the Vikes last week at +1500 to win the NFC North, too good of a value to pass up, and as I said last week, I really think they can be good (in the playoff hunt) this season.
This Sunday is VERY interesting...I like the Vikes at home against New England. That's next week's game I'm most intrigued by.
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I grabbed the Vikes last week at +1500 to win the NFC North, too good of a value to pass up, and as I said last week, I really think they can be good (in the playoff hunt) this season.
This Sunday is VERY interesting...I like the Vikes at home against New England. That's next week's game I'm most intrigued by.
If they are successful this season, I think they will look like the 49ers a few years back when they first had success with Alex Smith. The Vikes are going to run the ball, and hope for some timely passing/big plays. That's the offense. If Cassell drops back 30+ times, it's a bad sign.
The defense is a crazy mix of athletes that look great yesterday, but we'll see what happens against a real offense.
AND, the new NFL is all about passing, a good running game might be the best defensive strategy available. (insert QB) can't hurt you on the sidelines.
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If they are successful this season, I think they will look like the 49ers a few years back when they first had success with Alex Smith. The Vikes are going to run the ball, and hope for some timely passing/big plays. That's the offense. If Cassell drops back 30+ times, it's a bad sign.
The defense is a crazy mix of athletes that look great yesterday, but we'll see what happens against a real offense.
AND, the new NFL is all about passing, a good running game might be the best defensive strategy available. (insert QB) can't hurt you on the sidelines.
Zimmer is a hell of a coach, he coaches guys up, guys love playing for him. Good for the Vikes to finally give him a chance.
No one will confuse Cassell with Rodgers, but that offensive has a chance to be really good. Norv Turner is a very good coordinator, they have a good offensive line, he'll use Patterson as a weapon (like yesterday).
They're going to be in the mix, yesterday wasn't a fluke.
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They're going to be in the mix, yesterday wasn't a fluke.
I WANT to agree with you, but I'm afraid the Rams are pretty bad.
I guess we'll see what happens.
If/when the Vikes are ahead in a game, I think they are tough. If/when they fall behind in a game, I think it's a big mountain for them to climb. If the opposition can make them 1 dimensional, they are sunk. I just don't think they can execute if the opposition knows what's coming.
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I WANT to agree with you, but I'm afraid the Rams are pretty bad.
I guess we'll see what happens.
If/when the Vikes are ahead in a game, I think they are tough. If/when they fall behind in a game, I think it's a big mountain for them to climb. If the opposition can make them 1 dimensional, they are sunk. I just don't think they can execute if the opposition knows what's coming.
The defensive showing yesterday meant nothing. My tip for Fantasy football - start the defense playing the Rams as often as you can (I know - just stating the obvious). The Rams will be a bottom 3 team in the league offensively.
Now, I do like Zimmer, so I expect the defense to get better, but I have a really hard time seeing this team win more than 8 games.... and if Peterson goes down or only puts up 1000 - 1200 yards, they will be hard pressed to win 6.
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So does Ray Rice now get a suspension that fits the crime or...?
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So does Ray Rice now get a suspension that fits the crime or...?
The NFL claiming they couldn't get that video...someone needs to be fired now for either being stupid or lying.
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The NFL claiming they couldn't get that video...someone needs to be fired now for either being stupid or lying.
Yeah that's what I was wondering, how that video is just now coming out.
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Over/under RR is cut by the Ravens? Line set @ Tuesday 11am.
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Over/under RR is cut by the Ravens? Line set @ Tuesday 11am.
Not happening.
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Not happening.
Yup, lets remember, Stallworth killed a guy while driving drunk, Vick and Burris both spent 2 years in prison each and Jamal Lewis had some issues but they all came back with relative ease. This is the NFL were talking about here.
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As long as they don't smoke pot......
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Obviously they should release him, should have done it months ago.
Contractually, they virtually can't. If they did so, they'd have approx $14 mil in dead cap money the next two years.
Clearly, that should not matter one bit here, unless they can figure out a way to get back some of his signing bonus, I don't know what they do with him. For once, would love to see an NFL team say "screw it" and just do the right thing, money be d*mned.
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Yup, lets remember, Stallworth killed a guy while driving drunk,
And now, because the universe is hilarious, he's a political and national security commentator and writer for Huffington Post...
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Not happening.
Just happened.
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Glad the Ravens finally did the right thing.
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And the under wins!
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Dayyyyyum.
Impressive Ravens, impressive.
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Dayyyyyum.
Impressive Ravens, impressive.
Not really. The fact that it took this video coming out before either the ravens or NFL did what should have done from the get is a travesty. Video or not, anyone who took a moment to think about it knew what happened in that elevator. The fact that only when publicly confronted with this video did they take appropriate action, should probably be grounds for Goddell to lose his job. Absolute embarrassment.
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Not really. The fact that it took this video coming out before either the ravens or NFL did what should have done from the get is a travesty. Video or not, anyone who took a moment to think about it knew what happened in that elevator. The fact that only when publicly confronted with this video did they take appropriate action, should probably be grounds for Goddell to lose his job. Absolute embarrassment.
It's hard to fathom that as awful as the actual incident itself is/was, everything that happened after was almost as bad.
Rice not getting charged. Ravens standing by and supporting him. He made his wife apolgoize. The Ravens tweeted that his wife aplogized. And then the lying and cover up (or whatever you want to call it). Mutliple people lied here. My guess is Rice lied to the Ravens, the Ravens gave him full support, and then the league had to (HAD TO) have seen that video previously. Total BS that they did not. This was an elevator...IN A CASINO. The NFL can find the Spygate tapes and destroy them, but can't get casino elevator footage for domestic violence? Come. On.
NFL then is going to trot out pink jerseys in a few weeks...if they want to really support cancer research, do it with a big check without all the faux fan fare, especially in light of this piece of garbage that is Ray Rice and everything that happened these last few months.
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The show I was watching showed the 1st punch and then paused, and I thought "man that was awful". Then they hit play again and showed the 2nd punch knocking her out.
Can the Raven's get out of the contract/cap money if he was deemed to be in breech of contract? Not that I want the Ravens to get out of this, but just curious.
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The show I was watching showed the 1st punch and then paused, and I thought "man that was awful". Then they hit play again and showed the 2nd punch knocking her out.
Can the Raven's get out of the contract/cap money if he was deemed to be in breech of contract? Not that I want the Ravens to get out of this, but just curious.
I think the answer is YES now that the league issued an indefinite suspension
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At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?
Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?
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By cutting Rice, Ravens free approx $3.5 mil of his nonguaranteed base this year.
Next year he'll carry a $9.5 mil hit in dead money.
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Obviously they should release him, should have done it months ago.
Contractually, they virtually can't. If they did so, they'd have approx $14 mil in dead cap money the next two years.
Clearly, that should not matter one bit here, unless they can figure out a way to get back some of his signing bonus, I don't know what they do with him. For once, would love to see an NFL team say "screw it" and just do the right thing, money be d*mned.
I'd love to see the NFLPA come to his defense when the Ravens/League tell him to pound sand for any "guaranteed monies"...
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At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?
Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?
You and MUDish are right on here.
1. Baltimore's owner should be suspended immediately. Not only did he ignore an extreme assault case, he defended the criminal and demonized the victim.
2. Goodell needs to go. He has become power mad and thinks the NFL is above the law. He saw a tape where a 220 pound man pounded the sh** out of a woman 100 pounds lighter and didn't really have a problem with it. After the 1st viewing, he should have suspended Rice on the spot. PERIOD. It is what any decent human being would have done. He has no problem handing out long suspensions for someone toking or popping an adderall, and yet, when faced with real-world assault and battery, he has to think about it before giving a slap on the wrist. Goodell is not an embarrassment to the NFL - he is an embarrassment to decent people everywhere.
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My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity. Tough to correlate it with the Rice situation, but Goodell's approval rating among the public can't be much lower. Issues with Rice, Washington football club, concussions, amongst other things.
For the most part, the NFL "should" be the easiest league to govern.
Attendance is down, yesterday's Week 1 ratings are down. League is still of course a monster and will be, but how can Goodell survive long term? When he states his goal is to "protect the shield", and he fails miserably, how can he be trusted?
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My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity. Tough to correlate it with the Rice situation, but Goodell's approval rating among the public can't be much lower. Issues with Rice, Washington football club, concussions, amongst other things.
For the most part, the NFL "should" be the easiest league to govern.
Attendance is down, yesterday's Week 1 ratings are down. League is still of course a monster and will be, but how can Goodell survive long term? When he states his goal is to "protect the shield", and he fails miserably, how can he be trusted?
I think his goal should be to grow the product just as his predecessors did. He has some factors going against him, as you mentioned, but I think the biggest problem is Goodell, himself.
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Crean probably not going to be so eager to tell people he's related to the Harbaugh brothers anymore, I'm really a badger fan?
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So word is, apparently, there is "damning" evidence coming late tonight/tomorrow morning that the NFL explicitly knew/saw this video previously, and turned an absolute blind eye. We'll see what else comes out.
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My question is if we've reached a tipping point with the NFL and its popularity.
Nah. It is still by far the most popular sport. Nothing else is even close.
We need a lot bigger sample size to determine if that popularity has waned. Advertisers kill for the number of eyes the NFL brings every week.
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Nah. It is still by far the most popular sport. Nothing else is even close.
We need a lot bigger sample size to determine if that popularity has waned. Advertisers kill for the number of eyes the NFL brings every week.
Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.
Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.
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Back to football for a second...
The Giants are battling the Rams for the worst team in the NFC.
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Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.
Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.
Completely anecdotal story.
I love NFL football. Really it is the one sport that I can say that I have thoroughly enjoyed my entire life. Ever since I can first remember, I watched the Packers on Sunday. I can honestly say that in my adult life, I can count the Packer games I have missed on two hands. And of course I would watch all weekend and Monday night too. Before the season started, I used to get into the draft, used to be active on Packer discussion boards, knew the depth chart almost by heart...
But I've got to tell you, the last couple years I just haven't been all that into it. Yeah I will watch the Packers, and will generally watch on Sundays, but if I've got something better to do, I go do it. NFL draft? No interest. Pre-season? This year I watched the first quarter of the Packers/Rams game and that was it. I am sitting in my living room right now and the television is completely off. No interest in watching the games tonight.
I really think the NFL has damaged its brand in the last few years. Thursday night games that generally suck. Concussions. Redskins. Player violence.
This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses. Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can.
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Completely anecdotal story.
I love NFL football. Really it is the one sport that I can say that I have thoroughly enjoyed my entire life. Every Sunday since I can first remember, I watched the Packers on Sunday. I can honestly say that in my adult life, I can count the Packer games I have missed on two hands. And of course I would watch all weekend and Monday night too. Before the season started, I used to get into the draft, used to be active on Packer discussion boards, knew the depth chart almost by heart...
But I've got to tell you, the last couple years I just haven't been all that into it. Yeah I will watch the Packers, and will generally watch on Sundays, but if I've got something better to do, I go do it. NFL draft? No interest. Pre-season? This year I watched the first quarter of the Packers/Rams game and that was it. I am sitting in my living room right now and the television is completely off. No interest in watching the games tonight.
I really think the NFL has damaged its brand in the last few years. Thursday night games that generally suck. Concussions. Redskins. Player violence.
This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses. Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can.
I agree and my experience is almost identical.
I also believe that the NFL will end up being a case study in unabashed greed at some point in the not too distant future - maybe 10-15 years from now.
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I really like what Sultan said, makes complete sense to me. The Rozelle/Tags analogy was spot on the money.
I love the NFL, it's a game I grew up watching, got season tickets for, lucked into a job with the Bears (albeit one season).
Yesterday, I didn't watch a single second of pregame. Not that I enjoy pregame shows, I don't, but Week 1 I'm usually jacked up. Yesterday, avoided it on purpose...and it was great.
I'm tired of Rice, concussions, Skins. I hate Thurs night football. The thought of a franchise or Super Bowl in London is comical and absurd. The things Goodell tries to be proactive on are terrible. Yet, his ability to react is even worse.
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Not arguing that, arguing that the NFL has peaked. Yes, it is by far the monster league, nothing is close.
Interesting that ratings were down for last nights game. Attendance was down last season. Not saying by any means the league is in trouble, but has interest leveled off? Don't know, but wondering if an average consumer of football is turned off by the negative press.
Attendance was up last season vs the previous season. 17.3M vs 17.18M in 2012.
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At what point do the owners move on from Goodell?
Have to think that at least some of these guys have concerns about that office. The commissioner's office continues to bungle issue after issue. Yes, I know its all about the money, but at this point the case can be made that the league is successful in spite of Goodell. Just wondering how many more PR hits the league can continue to take, before the only thing that really matters (revenue) is affected?
Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled. I'm just curious what these are. Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?
Simply curious.
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And housing prices rose in 2005 over 2004 prices.
I think the football boom has reached its apex. It may plateau for a few years, but then what?
This week I advised my daughter that it was my opinion that my grandson (middle school) not play football. This thinking was not even on the horizon 2 years ago. I played tackle football since grade school and while I was laid up a couple times, I just accepted injuries as part of the process. But the risk just isn't worth it anymore.
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Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled. I'm just curious what these are. Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?
Simply curious.
**Personal conduct policy is a joke.
**Talks about player safety issues, but then pushes for an 18 game schedule
**Thursday night football.
**Redskins
**Pink campaign, which was exposed as more of a money maker for the NFL than anything
**Replacement refs...which is one I forgot about
**The concussion issue. From denial, to obstruction, to a misguided "heads up" tackling initiative of questionable value.
Seriously, can you not see this Chicos? As Awful Announcing put it tonight "At the moment the league’s most popular sports and entertainment brand is also its most reviled. As the fallout continues, it will be difficult for the NFL to overcome the worst stain on the shield in recent memory."
He has been completely tone deaf from the beginning on multiple issues.
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Can you explain what "issue after issue" has been bungled. I'm just curious what these are. Other than replacement refs, which he implemented at the behest of his employers (the owners), what are all these issues?
Simply curious.
1. Bountygate - Where Goodell served as judge, jury and executioner. To the point that Paul Tagliabue was needed to come back to help clean that up.
2. Player Fines & Discipline - The arbitrary nature of fines and suspensions in the Goodell era.
3. Concussion Issues - Complete lack of a PR strategy to address the growing concern of player safety. Everything the league has done has been reactionary on the issue.
4. Replacement officials (as you mentioned)
5. Thursday Night Football - A sub-par product, that the league has doubled-down on.
6. The Ray Rice fiasco
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Attendance was up last season vs the previous season. 17.3M vs 17.18M in 2012.
Seriously, you of all people...geez man.
There is a gigantic difference between attendance and paid attendance. GIGANTIC.
Come on man. If you think there were more butts in seats last season than 2012, I'm ready to sell my swamp land to you.
There's a reason the Cowboys give you playoff tickets upfront (insert joke here). It's because attendance is becoming a bigger problem than you think.
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This might sound really lame, but Rozelle and Tagliabue seemed to govern the league in a "grandfatherly" way, where they made a ton of money, but they also knew that they had to protect the league from potential excesses. Goodell and company seem to push the envelope every single time they can.
Very true, but you had a different type of owner in that era. Most teams were owned by the founder or their family, where football was their livelihood and income. Now, every new owner is independently wealthy, and teams are just another business investment. And, frankly, when you have owners like Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Stephen Ross, etc. who can't run their own franchise without dysfunction and drama, I'm not surprised the league office has issues.
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1. Bountygate - Where Goodell served as judge, jury and executioner. To the point that Paul Tagliabue was needed to come back to help clean that up.
2. Player Fines & Discipline - The arbitrary nature of fines and suspensions in the Goodell era.
3. Concussion Issues - Complete lack of a PR strategy to address the growing concern of player safety. Everything the league has done has been reactionary on the issue.
4. Replacement officials (as you mentioned)
5. Thursday Night Football - A sub-par product, that the league has doubled-down on.
6. The Ray Rice fiasco
Thanks. I'll agree on some, but have to disagree on others.
Bounty gate...mixed bag in my opinion. Tags didn't reverse any of the coaches suspensions or the fines against the franchise. The player suspensions, were overturned. IMO, Goodell felt just because the coaches told you to do it, you have some obligation as a player to act with integrity. Tags disagreed. Mixed bag in my view.
Player fines....subjective. He's actually fined players that should have been fined for a long time. He's a disciplinarian, some don't like that and some do. You'll find people that agree and disagree on this.
Concussion issues... I find it odd that you are saying Tags had to clean up for Goodell, when in fact in this case it is Goodell having to clean up for Tags and his predecessors. No win situation. I would argue that under Goodell's stewardship, the fines they have imposed, the rules changes, etc, have reduced concussions. The policy changes of when you can return, etc.
Replacement officials....already discussed...that's the owners call 100%. He is the bargaining agent for the owners.
Thursday Night Football...total non starter. It's a game like any other game. I don't like it because it dilutes the rights value paid by the broadcasters, but he has been tasked with driving revenue at the direction of the owners and he accomplished that.
Most of your issues here, are driven by the owners. Replacements, concussions, Thursday Night Football
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Seriously, you of all people...geez man.
There is a gigantic difference between attendance and paid attendance. GIGANTIC.
Come on man. If you think there were more butts in seats last season than 2012, I'm ready to sell my swamp land to you.
There's a reason the Cowboys give you playoff tickets upfront (insert joke here). It's because attendance is becoming a bigger problem than you think.
I understand that, but do you have data that suggests the actual attendance was lower or are you just saying that?
Tickets sold was higher in 2013 than 2012. I'd like to see your data that shows actual attendance (gate attendance) was lower as you claimed. You may be correct, I'd just like to see the data. Meanwhile, paid attendance was up in 2013 vs 2012. Paid attendance was down from 2008 to 2009. It was further down 2009 to 2010. Since 2011, however, it has been up slightly year over year.
Dish....I don't disagree with you, I'm just looking for the data. NFL is the perfect tv game, and I don't particularly like going to stadium games any longer. Corporations have to buy tickets to prevent blackouts, etc. However, I would like to see the data.
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Sometimes a commissioners role is to protect the owners from themselves. Goodell doesn't do a very good job in that regard IMO.
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NFL changed its policy not that long ago where teams no longer have to report attendance figures, but if they do, it must be seats purchased, and not actuals (since actuals have been down every year since mid 2000's). There's a ton of articles on this, without actuals. AP story by Will Graves is easy to find.
Because of the short window, the best gauge for the problem at hand is the playoffs. When 3 of 4 Wild Card round games have trouble selling out paid tickets, let alone butts in seats, you have a big problem.
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Bring Tim Tebow back
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NFL changed its policy not that long ago where teams no longer have to report attendance figures, but if they do, it must be seats purchased, and not actuals (since actuals have been down every year since mid 2000's). There's a ton of articles on this, without actuals. AP story by Will Graves is easy to find.
Because of the short window, the best gauge for the problem at hand is the playoffs. When 3 of 4 Wild Card round games have trouble selling out paid tickets, let alone butts in seats, you have a big problem.
Thank you
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http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-the-league-that-never-takes-a-break/
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So does Trestman have control of the team?
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So does Trestman have control of the team?
Depends, was he with Briggs when he was skipping practice to open his restaurant or out til 4am buying shots?
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**Personal conduct policy is a joke.
**Talks about player safety issues, but then pushes for an 18 game schedule
**Thursday night football.
**Redskins
**Pink campaign, which was exposed as more of a money maker for the NFL than anything
**Replacement refs...which is one I forgot about
**The concussion issue. From denial, to obstruction, to a misguided "heads up" tackling initiative of questionable value.
Seriously, can you not see this Chicos? As Awful Announcing put it tonight "At the moment the league’s most popular sports and entertainment brand is also its most reviled. As the fallout continues, it will be difficult for the NFL to overcome the worst stain on the shield in recent memory."
He has been completely tone deaf from the beginning on multiple issues.
I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.
Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.
Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.
There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.
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So does Trestman have control of the team?
That's a concern I have. If (most likely when) things spiral quickly, can he lead through a really rough stretch?
They are going to get blasted by the read option this Sunday night. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see San Fran over 225 team rush yds.
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So does Trestman have control of the team?
What is this in reference to?
Sorry, I can't find anything other than Briggs restaurant thing. Thanks
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Never mind, found it.
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I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.
Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.
Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.
There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.
Maybe the Charlotte Observer can come down on the tobacco industry that supports their state so much while not using Redskins....they can get a daily double in that regard.
Careful when you use terms like "nobody", "never", "always"....hyperbole.
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Maybe the Charlotte Observer can come down on the tobacco industry that supports their state so much while not using Redskins....they can get a daily double in that regard.
Careful when you use terms like "nobody", "never", "always"....hyperbole.
You got me.
Some people like Big Tobacco, and some people trust that the owners and Goodell are making sound decisions with the players and the league's best long term interest in mind.
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I think the NFL might become the modern tobacco company.
Nobody really "likes" big tobacco, and we all know they were shady. But, they keep selling a TON of products, and people keep smoking.
Nobody really "likes" or "trusts" Goodell, or any of the owners. We know they are screwing the players. But, we love the product, so we keep consuming it.
There will eventually be a backlash, but it's really too big to fail at this point.
Sultan...why do you respond to me, I have you on ignore. I'm not going to tolerate you calling my wife a liar, or me for that matter. You want to PM me and apologize, fine. Otherwise, I have no idea why you respond to me....thanks for quoting Canned.
I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc. It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions. You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made. Thursday night football, a red herring. His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players. That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games? Higher and higher ticket prices? 18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway. So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault? LOL
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Lion's win. Fool's gold. The Giants are not good. But I do feel better today than the Bears' fans. Just zero confidence long-term.
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Sultan...why do you respond to me, I have you on ignore. I'm not going to tolerate you calling my wife a liar, or me for that matter. You want to PM me and apologize, fine. Otherwise, I have no idea why you respond to me....thanks for quoting Canned.
I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc. It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions. You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made. Thursday night football, a red herring. His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players. That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games? Higher and higher ticket prices? 18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway. So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault? LOL
Apparently the ignore only works on incoming huh? :o
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You got me.
Some people like Big Tobacco, and some people trust that the owners and Goodell are making sound decisions with the players and the league's best long term interest in mind.
A lot of people like tobacco....unfortunately.
Many people trust Goodell, including many former and current players. I get to deal with a bunch of them every week. Are there many that do not....of course. That goes with the territory. Just as there are people that think the current POTUS is ruining the country and others that think he is the best POTUS in our history...how can people have such differing views?
That was my point, don't assume YOUR view of him is EVERYBODY's view. Get into the weeds with some of these guys and they talk a lot differently about much of the progress that has been made. That doesn't mean a lot of people don't like him, but it also means a lot of people really do like him and believe he is working well with the Players Association, retired players, etc. What you read and see is the negativity around key issues, you aren't going to read stories about players being happy or whatever...that's not how the news works.
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A lot of people like tobacco....unfortunately.
Many people trust Goodell, including many former and current players. I get to deal with a bunch of them every week. Are there many that do not....of course. That goes with the territory. Just as there are people that think the current POTUS is ruining the country and others that think he is the best POTUS in our history...how can people have such differing views?
That was my point, don't assume YOUR view of him is EVERYBODY's view. Get into the weeds with some of these guys and they talk a lot differently about much of the progress that has been made. That doesn't mean a lot of people don't like him, but it also means a lot of people really do like him and believe he is working well with the Players Association, retired players, etc. What you read and see is the negativity around key issues, you aren't going to read stories about players being happy or whatever...that's not how the news works.
I honestly have no contact with ANY player. Ever.
But, from a big picture perspective, I can't imagine that Goodell and the NFL are carrying a very good rep right now.
I've been wrong before.
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I do have to laugh at the Thursday night football, the concussion stuff, etc. It wasn't until this commissioner that anything material was done about concussions. You may not think it is good enough, but progress has been made. Thursday night football, a red herring. His job is to grow revenues for the teams and players. That's how you do it...would you prefer pay per view for games? Higher and higher ticket prices? 18 game schedule is also a joke of a canard...they will reduce preseason games and can't do it without the players approval anyway. So if it happens, it is because the players have approved it....but that's the commissioner's fault? LOL
Funny, because litigation against the NFL forced their had to act like they really cared about concussions. The Head's Up program is a total joke, and has been proven as such.
Pay Per View already exists for the NFL, it's called Sunday Ticket, which you should be familiar with. True PPV, as you are referencing would end up possibly violating the NFL's antitrust exemption, which is what keeps the league what it is. Green Bay wouldn't have a franchise without it.
Yes, it's his job to grow revenues, but Goodell's strategy has sucked. Thursday night package? No thanks. Second Monday night package? Sign me up. Team in London? Not a chance. Team in Mexico City? There's a market waiting for an NFL team. Expanding the playoffs? I'm fine with that.
There's ways to grow revenue in front of his face, he's just missing them.
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That's a concern I have. If (most likely when) things spiral quickly, can he lead through a really rough stretch?
They are going to get blasted by the read option this Sunday night. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see San Fran over 225 team rush yds.
All the work put into the Jay makeover during the off-season, quickly destroyed in one answer.
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All the work put into the Jay makeover during the off-season, quickly destroyed in one answer.
Can't argue with it. Have to admit, his reaction in the presser after the game really turned me off.
I know this has been addressed here, but eventually his Chicago legacy will just be a huge "meh". Expectations were so high when he got to Chicago, I can't see them winning a Super Bowl, inspite of his talent. It's frustrating because when the guy is good, he's really good. He makes some throws that are ridiculous. The problem is...he makes some throws that are also ridiculous.
The expectations (back in June anyway), with Trestman supposed to be helping him, his new contract, all that stuff...if things go south, the town is going to turn on him pretty quickly.
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Funny, because litigation against the NFL forced their had to act like they really cared about concussions. The Head's Up program is a total joke, and has been proven as such.
Pay Per View already exists for the NFL, it's called Sunday Ticket, which you should be familiar with. True PPV, as you are referencing would end up possibly violating the NFL's antitrust exemption, which is what keeps the league what it is. Green Bay wouldn't have a franchise without it.
Yes, it's his job to grow revenues, but Goodell's strategy has sucked. Thursday night package? No thanks. Second Monday night package? Sign me up. Team in London? Not a chance. Team in Mexico City? There's a market waiting for an NFL team. Expanding the playoffs? I'm fine with that.
There's ways to grow revenue in front of his face, he's just missing them.
Yup, I'm quite aware of NFL ST as well as all the revenue sharing dynamics at work as was tied at the hip with some of that stuff.
The people that vote on whether "his" strategy has sucked (it's not his strategy alone, by the way...which you should know) are the owners. They vehemently disagree. The revenue pie has grown exponentially under his watch. Incidentally, they studied HARD a second Monday night, as they have to run all those scenarios by the rights holders as it directly impacts things like NFL Sunday Ticket. Thursday won out by the research that was done. You may not like it, but that's what the data showed.
The dollars that have been generated on his watch have been huge, and the strategy has hardly sucked or they wouldn't be where they are at. London...Mexico City....they want to take the game international, it's going to happen to one or both. I believe it will be London. You say not a chance, but the fact is that London can sustain the economics of a team while Mexico City has a much tougher time over the longhaul.
18 games, it is going to happen....there will be concessions in the CBA to the NFLPA, but the NFLPA will vote for it ultimately.
On the concussions, I don't disagree with you that the pressure was coming, but they acted. I'd like to see what has been "proven" about the Head's Up program. In particular, I was referencing the policy changes when a player suffers a concussion, the funding set aside to treat the effects, the research commitment made, etc. Is it perfect? No. Is it a step in the right direction that his predecessors did not do? Yes.
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I honestly have no contact with ANY player. Ever.
But, from a big picture perspective, I can't imagine that Goodell and the NFL are carrying a very good rep right now.
I've been wrong before.
Stern. Goodall. Bettman. Selig. Most commissioners are disliked by the fans at various levels. Silver, he's in a honeymoon phase right now, but rest assured it will happen to him as well. With all the bed wetting conspiracy theories the last few days, of course there will be plenty of people that have a bad opinion of things. As they cycle through their theory to HE DID see it, to HE SHOULD HAVE seen it, to they should have illegally bought the video, to he should have predicted it....that's the way it goes.
Sundays, Mondays, Thursdays will have lots of butts watching on the tube a bunch of guys playing football and plenty of people complaining about something.
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Yup, I'm quite aware of NFL ST as well as all the revenue sharing dynamics at work as was tied at the hip with some of that stuff.
The people that vote on whether "his" strategy has sucked (it's not his strategy alone, by the way...which you should know) are the owners. They vehemently disagree. The revenue pie has grown exponentially under his watch. Incidentally, they studied HARD a second Monday night, as they have to run all those scenarios by the rights holders as it directly impacts things like NFL Sunday Ticket. Thursday won out by the research that was done. You may not like it, but that's what the data showed.
The dollars that have been generated on his watch have been huge, and the strategy has hardly sucked or they wouldn't be where they are at. London...Mexico City....they want to take the game international, it's going to happen to one or both. I believe it will be London. You say not a chance, but the fact is that London can sustain the economics of a team while Mexico City has a much tougher time over the longhaul.
18 games, it is going to happen....there will be concessions in the CBA to the NFLPA, but the NFLPA will vote for it ultimately.
On the concussions, I don't disagree with you that the pressure was coming, but they acted. I'd like to see what has been "proven" about the Head's Up program. In particular, I was referencing the policy changes when a player suffers a concussion, the funding set aside to treat the effects, the research commitment made, etc. Is it perfect? No. Is it a step in the right direction that his predecessors did not do? Yes.
Here you go: http://deadspin.com/i-got-certified-to-coach-heads-up-football-and-it-was-a-1583159680
Here you go: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/05/john-madden-doesnt-believe-in-the-heads-up-football-program/
If you don't want to call it proof, fine, whatever. Heads Up is a joke.
To me, it's much more a coincidence Goodell, in your opinion, gets credited for this advancement in concussions. It was going to happen at this particular point in history, due to knowledge/science/technology, in spite of whoever was commish.
Yes, 18 games is going to happen. As long as the second bye week is brought back, I'm fine with it.
You argue it's not his strategy, but it for a fact is his responsibility to sell to the Mara's/McCaskey's/Hunt's of the world what the Snyder's/Jones'/Kraft's want. Yes, the revenue has grown tremendously, but the harmony isn't across the board. Goodell is doing what he grew up in the NFL doing. Whether he is doing it well, as he is quoted at the 2010 NFL Rookie Symposium..."protect the Shield".
Is he a good business negotiator? For the most part, yes. Is he good at governing a sports league? No, not at all.
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2008 NFL revenue = $6.4billion
2014 = $9.3 billion
By 2018 with the new contracts, looking at $16 billion
That's incredible growth, and that's what he is ultimately paid to do.
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Did they see the tape? Did they not see the tape? Did they ask to see it? Did they not ask to see it? Were they not granted access? Did they do enough to get access? In the end the answers to those questions all lead to the exact same place...the NFL and the Ravens simply don't care about this. It isn't/wasn't important to them. There is just no getting around it.
They aren't reacting now because they are concerned about domestic violence, they are reacting because of the public's reaction. They are reacting because they have to. Their concern around domestic violence on the part of their players is about the impact on their business, not the impact on the victims. Everybody can see that plain as day now, and it is for that reason that goddell's days are numbered. They will fond someone else who can make them money, but I just don't suspect they will be able to continue with him as the face of that office.
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Did they see the tape? Did they not see the tape? Did they ask to see it? Did they not ask to see it? Were they not granted access? Did they do enough to get access? In the end the answers to those questions all lead to the exact same place...the NFL and the Ravens simply don't care about this. It isn't/wasn't important to them. There is just no getting around it.
They aren't reacting now because they are concerned about domestic violence, they are reacting because of the public's reaction. They are reacting because they have to. Their concern around domestic violence on the part of their players is about the impact on their business, not the impact on the victims. Everybody can see that plain as day now, and it is for that reason that goddell's days are numbered. They will fond someone else who can make them money, but I just don't suspect they will be able to continue with him as the face of that office.
Bravo sir, well said.
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Did they see the tape? Did they not see the tape? Did they ask to see it? Did they not ask to see it? Were they not granted access? Did they do enough to get access? In the end the answers to those questions all lead to the exact same place...the NFL and the Ravens simply don't care about this. It isn't/wasn't important to them. There is just no getting around it.
They aren't reacting now because they are concerned about domestic violence, they are reacting because of the public's reaction. They are reacting because they have to. Their concern around domestic violence on the part of their players is about the impact on their business, not the impact on the victims. Everybody can see that plain as day now, and it is for that reason that goddell's days are numbered. They will fond someone else who can make them money, but I just don't suspect they will be able to continue with him as the face of that office.
From a few minutes ago:
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive three months ago, while league officers have insisted they didn't see the violent images until this week.
The person played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."
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If true....boom goes the dynamite.
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GB-85jST17E/U9JOr4UGQUI/AAAAAAAABi8/8QnA97f3bpU/s1600/fired.gif)
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More good news for the NFL.
http://deadspin.com/report-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case-1634160368?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Fox Houston reports that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson has been indicted in Montgomery County, Texas, for reckless or negligent injury to a child.
According to Fox Houston's Isiah Carey, the charges stem from allegations that Peterson "beat his young son." Child Protective Services confirmed to TMZ that it has a case involving Peterson and an 11-year-old boy.
NFL.com's Ian Rapaport adds this detail:
Jay Glazer adds that Peterson has been cooperating with law enforcement, and will now have to turn himself in to authorities. Rapaport notes that Peterson testified before a grand jury weeks ago.
Peterson keeps a home in Houston suburb The Woodlands, which lies in Montgomery County.
Peterson missed yesterday's team practice for what coach Mike Zimmer called a "veteran's day." He was back with the Vikings today.
Things are still getting sorted out, but here's some background on Texas law, from the online statutes. This appears to be what Peterson was indicted on:
Sec. 22.04. INJURY TO A CHILD, ELDERLY INDIVIDUAL, OR DISABLED INDIVIDUAL. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, by act or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly by omission, causes to a child, elderly individual, or disabled individual:
(1) serious bodily injury;
(2) serious mental deficiency, impairment, or injury; or
(3) bodily injury.
As for if this was child abuse, Texas defines it separately in a family law chapter. So abuse is not a charge, but it is defined. You can see the very lengthy definition here: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA...
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More good news for the NFL.
http://deadspin.com/report-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case-1634160368?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Fox Houston reports that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson has been indicted in Montgomery County, Texas, for reckless or negligent injury to a child.
According to Fox Houston's Isiah Carey, the charges stem from allegations that Peterson "beat his young son." Child Protective Services confirmed to TMZ that it has a case involving Peterson and an 11-year-old boy.
NFL.com's Ian Rapaport adds this detail:
Jay Glazer adds that Peterson has been cooperating with law enforcement, and will now have to turn himself in to authorities. Rapaport notes that Peterson testified before a grand jury weeks ago.
Peterson keeps a home in Houston suburb The Woodlands, which lies in Montgomery County.
Peterson missed yesterday's team practice for what coach Mike Zimmer called a "veteran's day." He was back with the Vikings today.
Things are still getting sorted out, but here's some background on Texas law, from the online statutes. This appears to be what Peterson was indicted on:
Sec. 22.04. INJURY TO A CHILD, ELDERLY INDIVIDUAL, OR DISABLED INDIVIDUAL. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, by act or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly by omission, causes to a child, elderly individual, or disabled individual:
(1) serious bodily injury;
(2) serious mental deficiency, impairment, or injury; or
(3) bodily injury.
As for if this was child abuse, Texas defines it separately in a family law chapter. So abuse is not a charge, but it is defined. You can see the very lengthy definition here: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA...
Yup. If this is bad and Peterson is suspended for an extended amount of time, what looked like a *great* (7-9) season for the Vikings just went down the crapper. 3-13 here they come.
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More good news for the NFL.
According to Fox Houston's Isiah Carey, the charges stem from allegations that Peterson "beat his young son." Child Protective Services confirmed to TMZ that it has a case involving Peterson and an 11-year-old boy.
Goodell and Mueller confirm it's illegal to contact Child Protective Services.
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Yup. If this is bad and Peterson is suspended for an extended amount of time, what looked like a *great* (7-9) season for the Vikings just went down the crapper. 3-13 here they come.
Ponder will come to the rescue.
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More good news for the NFL.
http://deadspin.com/report-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case-1634160368?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Fox Houston reports that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson has been indicted in Montgomery County, Texas, for reckless or negligent injury to a child.
According to Fox Houston's Isiah Carey, the charges stem from allegations that Peterson "beat his young son." Child Protective Services confirmed to TMZ that it has a case involving Peterson and an 11-year-old boy.
NFL.com's Ian Rapaport adds this detail:
Jay Glazer adds that Peterson has been cooperating with law enforcement, and will now have to turn himself in to authorities. Rapaport notes that Peterson testified before a grand jury weeks ago.
Peterson keeps a home in Houston suburb The Woodlands, which lies in Montgomery County.
Peterson missed yesterday's team practice for what coach Mike Zimmer called a "veteran's day." He was back with the Vikings today.
Things are still getting sorted out, but here's some background on Texas law, from the online statutes. This appears to be what Peterson was indicted on:
Sec. 22.04. INJURY TO A CHILD, ELDERLY INDIVIDUAL, OR DISABLED INDIVIDUAL. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, by act or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly by omission, causes to a child, elderly individual, or disabled individual:
(1) serious bodily injury;
(2) serious mental deficiency, impairment, or injury; or
(3) bodily injury.
As for if this was child abuse, Texas defines it separately in a family law chapter. So abuse is not a charge, but it is defined. You can see the very lengthy definition here: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA...
Edit:
Nevermind.
Looks like AP might have beat him with a switch. Not good.
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So what. Peterson came back better than ever from ACL surgery, a'ina?
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So what. Peterson came back better than ever from ACL surgery, a'ina?
I don't mean this to come off in the wrong way, but of all the people out there you would think someone who lost a child to an adult beating (granted, he never knew the child) would not be someone who beats his own child. Sad, dark world sometimes.
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He should never play again. EVER.
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On a lighter note, because I can and because it's fun, this article is pretty darn spot on.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11505329/flem-file-chicago-bears-quarterback-jay-cutler-never-just-right
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On a lighter note, because I can and because it's fun, this article is pretty darn spot on.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11505329/flem-file-chicago-bears-quarterback-jay-cutler-never-just-right
I read it this morning and was gonna post the link - but it's just too easy with Cutler.
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He should never play again. EVER.
Already de-activated.
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Posted in Rice thread... maybe belongs here:
The Greg Hardy 911 call... wow.
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Goodell isn't the only one who can't be trusted.
The pretrial intervention program offered to Ray Rice in the assault case involving his wife was granted in less than 1 percent of all domestic violence assault cases from 2010-13 that were resolved, according to New Jersey Judiciary data obtained Friday by "Outside the Lines."
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NFL/NFLPA just passed a new drug policy. Wes Welker and Orlando Scandrick re-instated
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I read it this morning and was gonna post the link - but it's just too easy with Cutler.
Sadly, that's probably the happiest written NFL story this season too.
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unnatural carnal knowledge that article about Cutler. Seriously.
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Only think I'll say about the Cutler article is that rarely has Jay ever made the claims that the article is implying he made: need an offensive coach, need receivers, etc. etc. Media, analysts and "journalists" often came out and said how those things would help Jay reach his potential. As well, he almost always takes the blame for his own mistakes when approached about them, just like the end of the article shows (though it tries to imply that was the first time ever that he did it)
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Only think I'll say about the Cutler article is that rarely has Jay ever made the claims that the article is implying he made: need an offensive coach, need receivers, etc. etc. Media, analysts and "journalists" often came out and said how those things would help Jay reach his potential. As well, he almost always takes the blame for his own mistakes when approached about them, just like the end of the article shows (though it tries to imply that was the first time ever that he did it)
This. That and when he did have an excuse like a torn miniscus they ripped him anyways.
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Only think I'll say about the Cutler article is that rarely has Jay ever made the claims that the article is implying he made: need an offensive coach, need receivers, etc. etc. Media, analysts and "journalists" often came out and said how those things would help Jay reach his potential. As well, he almost always takes the blame for his own mistakes when approached about them, just like the end of the article shows (though it tries to imply that was the first time ever that he did it)
I read the article a bit differently. I felt he was saying that other people always had excuses for Jay's play, not that Jay was complaining about it. But, Bear fans especially have excused his play even as he marched the Bears through the playoffs year after year. :o
Sorry, I cant help myself when it comes to Jay.
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He should never play again. EVER.
Really, this is much more disgusting than the Ray Rice story. My God...
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I read the article a bit differently. I felt he was saying that other people always had excuses for Jay's play, not that Jay was complaining about it. But, Bear fans especially have excused his play even as he marched the Bears through the playoffs year after year. :o
Sorry, I cant help myself when it comes to Jay.
That's a joke. I'm in the minority when it comes to supporting Cutler.
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I'm glad the Vikes aren't letting him play, but...
...they had to have kept this underwrap for a while now.
I have 4 year old twins, I just can not fathom any of this. Numb.
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Really if the Vikings don't let Peterson go, and he isn't suspended indefinitely a la Rice, the NFL has become even a bigger joke than it was 12 hours ago.
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Really, this is much more disgusting than the Ray Rice story. My God...
Getting worse.
Just saw that the kid told police Peterson previously beat him with belts on numerous occasions and placed leaves in his mouth so he wouldn't scream. Peterson also sent his ex a text saying he hit the kid in his testicles by mistake.
It's one thing punching out your girlfriend in a drunking rage, but beating a four year old in this manner is a whole different ballgame.
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I read the article a bit differently. I felt he was saying that other people always had excuses for Jay's play, not that Jay was complaining about it. But, Bear fans especially have excused his play even as he marched the Bears through the playoffs year after year. :o
Sorry, I cant help myself when it comes to Jay.
I agree with you here. Guess we just read the article differently. Your POV on teh article is what I was trying to say in my post.
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This is becoming really interesting. Is the NFL going to start becoming a moral/ethical league where they get rid of players for crimes/questionable behavior? Where's the line - violence? drugs?
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This is becoming really interesting. Is the NFL going to start becoming a moral/ethical league where they get rid of players for crimes/questionable behavior? Where's the line - violence? drugs?
Well it is a profession. If you were arrested for beating your fiancé or your kid would you hang onto your job? I don't know if that's pushing morality and ethics so much as following laws. Domestic violence and child abuse are illegal.
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I know for a fact that I'd be fired in two seconds if I was indicted on domestic abuse
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Well it is a profession. If you were arrested for beating your fiancé or your kid would you hang onto your job? I don't know if that's pushing morality and ethics so much as following laws. Domestic violence and child abuse are illegal.
There is a difference between arrested and convicted. I have little doubt that AP ends up with a good lawyer and (A) does not spend a day in jail (B) is not convicted by a jury of his peers (C) ends up with the charges reduced drastically. At that point, as with anyone, with no felony conviction on his record, other than disapproval from a hypocritical fanbase, why shouldn't he continue to be employed?
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There is a difference between arrested and convicted. I have little doubt that AP ends up with a good lawyer and (A) does not spend a day in jail (B) is not convicted by a jury of his peers (C) ends up with the charges reduced drastically. At that point, as with anyone, with no felony conviction on his record, other than disapproval from a hypocritical fanbase, why shouldn't he continue to be employed?
His lawyer already admitted to what he did and said he was just "treating his kid the same way he had been raised." I don't care how someone was raised or what that person experienced as a kid, there is no place for that. And you'd think someone who lost a child (that he never met - sounds like a great guy all around) as a result of an adult beating him would be a little more careful about this. I just don't think that if the NFL decides AP should not be allowed to play that they are pushing some sort of morals.
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When you are in a high profile profession, being arrested for a violent act should most certainly mean suspension by your employer. That that suspension should remain in place regardless if it is plead out.
And indefinitely suspending someone doesn't mean permanently suspending them.
And here is the problem in a league with a bad commissioner who decided to dole out punishment based on apparently nothing but his whim. There are now no guidelines. Rice...suspended indefinitely. Hardy...nothing. Peterson...silence.
It really is a clusterf*ck.
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When you are in a high profile profession, being arrested for a violent act should most certainly mean suspension by your employer. That that suspension should remain in place regardless if it is plead out.
And indefinitely suspending someone doesn't mean permanently suspending them.
And here is the problem in a league with a bad commissioner who decided to dole out punishment based on apparently nothing but his whim. There are now no guidelines. Rice...suspended indefinitely. Hardy...nothing. Peterson...silence.
It really is a clusterf*ck.
This. Exactly what I was getting at.
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When you are in a high profile profession, being arrested for a violent act should most certainly mean suspension by your employer. That that suspension should remain in place regardless if it is plead out.
And indefinitely suspending someone doesn't mean permanently suspending them.
And here is the problem in a league with a bad commissioner who decided to dole out punishment based on apparently nothing but his whim. There are now no guidelines. Rice...suspended indefinitely. Hardy...nothing. Peterson...silence.
It really is a clusterf*ck.
Speaking of the bad commissioner part. How long do we think Goodell is gonna last? He has been brutal for the league thus far during his tenure.
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Speaking of the bad commissioner part. How long do we think Goodell is gonna last? He has been brutal for the league thus far during his tenure.
Only one thing matters, just like in the NCAA...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Yeah but short term money is one thing. Long term degradation of the brand is another. And Goodell seems to have no answers.
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Yeah but short term money is one thing. Long term degradation of the brand is another. And Goodell seems to have no answers.
Good point. I would love to see him resign/get fired, but I just see the owners standing by his side because he has allowed them to make quite a bit of money.
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Only one thing matters, just like in the NCAA...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
But Goodell hasn't really done well in that area.
MBL, NBA, and NHL have all had a higher percentage growth since 2006 than the NFL.
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Good point. I would love to see him resign/get fired, but I just see the owners standing by his side because he has allowed them to make quite a bit of money.
That and he's one of them. I think the solution needs to be appointing a trusted owner as an interim...like Dan Rooney. And then give them a couple years to figure out how to move forward.
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Just about anyone could do a better job of running the NFL than Goodell.
538 had a great article on how overvalued Goodell is from a business standpoint. Growth % of NFL franchise values is the lowest among the four major leagues. Yes, it is skewed a tad because NFL franchises are highly sought. However, average value increase under Goodell's tenure is a mediocre 3.5%. That's with massive media contract increases.
Long term, having Goodell in charge is going to be a big problem for the owners. Good luck to Buffalo, Oakland, San Diego trotting out Goodell asking for taxpayer dollars for stadiums.
In DC, Snyder is holding the nickname hostage to exchange for a new stadium in DC. Good luck with that PR nightmare.
No one talks about it, but the ownership situation in Chicago will get very interesting, probably in next 5 years.
Good luck Rog.
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Nice drive by Vikes.
Adrian who?
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Glad the Skins didn't trade Kirk Cousins. RGIII probably just blew his knee out again. Ouch......
And on his first pass Cousins throws a TD.
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It was Griffin's ankle...not his knee. But yeah.
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Funny that people thought there would be "big stories brewing" (BJ) in Minneapolis. Don't know how many times I can say it in here but you need a QB who values the football to win in the NFL. Turnovers are nearly impossible to overcome no matter who you're playing in the NFL.
Now having said that, I'm not sure the Vikings QBs don't value the football like I think is the case with Cutler, I think their problem is their QBs are just complete and utter crap. Give Brett a call and get Chilli back on the sidelines!
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I gotta wonder what is going through Greg Jennings' head these days.
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I gotta wonder what is going through Greg Jennings' head these days.
"I wish I had 'twelve' back."
Or maybe, "Hey, at least I get to play on a college field!"
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Oh my Vikings...
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Oh my Vikings...
Of course I'm playing the Patriots defense/special teams this week. And they really should've had another touchdown.
22 points in the first half, 1 yard short of 28.
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So Roger Goodell cancelled his appearance at the opening of the new 49ers stadium tonight. That in and of itself isn't surprising, but Goodell hasn't been seen anywhere since Wednesday. And the oddly timed "Redskins support Goodell" release from yesterday, makes me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes.
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Oh my Vikings...
I missed the 2nd half. Sounded miserable. Sitting at msp waiting for flight to midway.
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I missed the 2nd half. Sounded miserable. Sitting at msp waiting for flight to midway.
You just missed a lot of Matt Cassel turnovers. I think the Patriot's defense is now over 30 points.
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Good start.
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Same old Lions. Offensive miscues, injuries on defense.
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Of course I'm playing the Patriots defense/special teams this week. And they really should've had another touchdown.
22 points in the first half, 1 yard short of 28.
They are on my bench....obviously.
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Jets are taking it to the Packers. They look as bad as my Giants.
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Haven't watched any football yet today, just got home. What the hell is going on in Green Bay? I have the Pack in about 5 different wagers.
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Haven't watched any football yet today, just got home. What the hell is going on in Green Bay? I have the Pack in about 5 different wagers.
Same stuff that has been happening to the Packers since the 2011 season. Rodgers doesn't throw the ball away when he has a chance, the offensive line has breakdowns, and the defense can't get off the field on 3rd down. McCarthy talks about a lot of these things after every week and...
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Have to say, Lambeau looks good, added seats fit in, like what they've done there.
If you have an offshore account, a guy, or happen to be in Vegas, check out Kaepernick o/u 29.5 rush yds tonight...or Gore o/u 72.5 rush yds tonight. Just sayin...
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Have to say, Lambeau looks good, added seats fit in, like what they've done there.
If you have an offshore account, a guy, or happen to be in Vegas, check out Kaepernick o/u 29.5 rush yds tonight...or Gore o/u 72.5 rush yds tonight. Just sayin...
Good call on those bets. That's crazy, especially Kaepernik.
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Good call on those bets. That's crazy, especially Kaepernik.
Seriously, he could have that after one quarter. There's another prop that is Kaepernick over 100 rush yds, +750. I think that's a really good one too.
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What are the odds on Geno Smith looking like Vince Young at Texas against USC in the National Championship? Because he'd have that one locked down.
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I am usually a patient person when it comes to coaching, and I was doubtful about Capers coming back this year, but we were told this year was going to be different. It isn't.
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You're welcome Packer fans. I will take a hit so we can all enjoy the Packers winning. Last year I would walk away from watching the game (live) every time we'd be playing awful, and we'd always turn it around when I was not watching the game. I watched the entire Seahawks game, and obviously we never turned it around in that game. Today I walked away from the TV immediately after Ivory's 4 yard touchdown. We are now up 31-24. Until this is proven wrong, I don't think I'm ever going to watch another second of live Packers football.
Heck, maybe I should try that for MUBB.
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Tampa is f'n awful.
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Ray McDonald gets to play huh? And the 49ers are "zero tolerance"? Once again, the NFL and franchises can't decide where to draw the line.
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Seriously, he could have that after one quarter. There's another prop that is Kaepernick over 100 rush yds, +750. I think that's a really good one too.
100 is a LOT of yards for a QB. Does not happen very often. I would guess around 65 for him tonight.
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100 is a LOT of yards for a QB. Does not happen very often. I would guess around 65 for him tonight.
It's about value at +750.
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(http://cdn.diply.com/img/5a803ca8-dce2-44a2-b796-bc0c73c2944d.jpg)
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It's about value at +750.
Yeah makes sense I just think I'd put more money on the 29.5 yards. I understand it's a much bigger return if he breaks 100 yards but I think I'd take the more or less guaranteed money (barring an injury) thank put money on something so unlikely (even though I agree, it's a good value).
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Yeah makes sense I just think I'd put more money on the 29.5 yards. I understand it's a much bigger return if he breaks 100 yards but I think I'd take the more or less guaranteed money (barring an injury) thank put money on something so unlikely (even though I agree, it's a good value).
No argument here, makes sense.
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This has been a horrendous game, just brutal to watch.
Cutler's been terrible.
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Bears have injuries everywhere. Jay isn't good enough to overcome those problems plus a bad defense. Marshall/Jeffrey aren't helping anyone, including themselves.
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What was the o/u on flags?
Also, Cutler might not play second half after that hit.
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Cutler settling down and making some better throws in the second half, but cant get ANYTHING going with the run game. Ugh.
Niners starting the half with a 9 min drive didn't help either.
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wut?
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Oddest game I think I've ever seen.
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Fuller with two athletic picks. Wheels falling off Niners, close to zero read option this half.
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He wasn't good at all in the first quarter, but since he took that shot in the second quarter, Cutler's been spectacular.
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He wasn't good at all in the first quarter, but since he took that shot in the second quarter, Cutler's been spectacular.
Single handedly saving my fantasy team. Along with the Patriots defense.
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What a second half.
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This has been the craziest two weeks of the NFL that I can remember.
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Hell of a second half. Kyle Fuller's coming out party. Marshall somehow shaking off that injury to go HAM. And Cutler shook off a TERRIBLE start to have a brilliant second half and just made things happen. Also love it because of garbage articles like this during last week.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11505329/flem-file-chicago-bears-quarterback-jay-cutler-never-just-right
BIG momentum for the Bears going forward. Lets hope some of these injuries aren't too serious. Ratliff has a concussion, but I worry Tillman could be done...
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Alshon jeffry looked wicked slow due to his hamstring injury. I think I could've covered him!
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He wasn't good at all in the first quarter, but since he took that shot in the second quarter, Cutler's been spectacular.
Like. Got to give the cat some credit as I am not one of his fans...but he takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Great end of game...and Marshall is a gamer as well.
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My 49ers sucked ass tonight.
Losing to the Bears is like an ND fan kicked you in the nuts and spit on you.
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Hell of a second half. Kyle Fuller's coming out party. Marshall somehow shaking off that injury to go HAM. And Cutler shook off a TERRIBLE start to have a brilliant second half and just made things happen. Also love it because of garbage articles like this during last week.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11505329/flem-file-chicago-bears-quarterback-jay-cutler-never-just-right
BIG momentum for the Bears going forward. Lets hope some of these injuries aren't too serious. Ratliff has a concussion, but I worry Tillman could be done...
Great Second half. Like most teams in the NFL, the Bears are going to have to overcome injuries to make something happen. Happy to see Fuller step up and hopefully Ferguson and Sutton can fill in for Ratliff this coming week.
Also would be nice to get either Jeffrey or Marshall at 100% b/c they looked awfully ordinary last night, Jeffrey especially.
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Really was a great second half by the Bears, and I can see why people are a little down on the Niners this year. Zero pass rush.
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Great Second half. Like most teams in the NFL, the Bears are going to have to overcome injuries to make something happen. Happy to see Fuller step up and hopefully Ferguson and Sutton can fill in for Ratliff this coming week.
Also would be nice to get either Jeffrey or Marshall at 100% b/c they looked awfully ordinary last night, Jeffrey especially.
LOLWUT? Marshall wasn't 100% but if that was ordinary, especially the first TD catch, then there aren't many beyond ordinary WRs in the NFL right now.
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AP reinstated. What was the point of deactivating him in the first place now?
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AP reinstated. What was the point of deactivating him in the first place now?
I'm assuming to deal with the outstanding arrest warrant. He traveled to Texas, posted bond, and was released.
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I'm assuming to deal with the outstanding arrest warrant. He traveled to Texas, posted bond, and was released.
good point, forgot about that
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LOLWUT? Marshall wasn't 100% but if that was ordinary, especially the first TD catch, then there aren't many beyond ordinary WRs in the NFL right now.
Sorry... Agreed, excellent grab by Marshall at the end of the half and a pretty good game in all. I guess I was referring more towards Alshon. He really was hobbled most the night.
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I'm assuming to deal with the outstanding arrest warrant. He traveled to Texas, posted bond, and was released.
I'm sure that's the Vikings plan, but I don't see how he can play on Sunday. Personally, I don't think he should play again this year, but we'll see what the NFL does. Depends on whether something else pops up to drive the focus away from domestic abuse (something global, I don't think there is any sport story that is going to drive this story away...I hope)
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NFL teams have no clue, no PR savvy, no non football management skills to work through what is going on.
AD to play this week? What changed in 72 hours?
Hardy probably plays Sunday? Why deactivate him one game.
Hiding behind "due process" is BS. Bowing to public outrage in the short term...total garbage.
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NFL teams have no clue, no PR savvy, no non football management skills to work through what is going on.
AD to play this week? What changed in 72 hours?
Hardy probably plays Sunday? Why deactivate him one game.
Hiding behind "due process" is BS. Bowing to public outrage in the short term...total garbage.
+1
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Here's a fun link
http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
Filter based on your (least) favorite team!
Spoiler - mostly DUI and domestic assault cases
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Here's a fun link
http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
Filter based on your (least) favorite team!
Spoiler - mostly DUI and domestic assault cases
Najeh Davenport...
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Najeh Davenport...
I imagine him and Rick Majerus share something in common.
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NFL teams have no clue, no PR savvy, no non football management skills to work through what is going on.
AD to play this week? What changed in 72 hours?
Hardy probably plays Sunday? Why deactivate him one game.
Hiding behind "due process" is BS. Bowing to public outrage in the short term...total garbage.
The Vikes are in a no win situation.
They could cut him outright and take a big stand (I would applaud that, and many others would).
However, when he signs with the Cowboys, and has a big year in 2015, the narrative with be about "redemption", and how he's changed so much since last year.
The truth is, he won't have changed anything but his uniform, but we'll be sold a pile of garbage because it makes for a better story than: Bad guy is still good at football. Still makes millions.
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NFL teams have no clue, no PR savvy, no non football management skills to work through what is going on.
AD to play this week? What changed in 72 hours?
Hardy probably plays Sunday? Why deactivate him one game.
Hiding behind "due process" is BS. Bowing to public outrage in the short term...total garbage.
They have no PR skills because they haven't had to use any.
This entire episode IMO is an exercise on how *not* to run an organization and how *not* to handle a PR emergency. The lack of personnel guidelines outside of "whatever Roger thinks" was a disaster waiting to happen. And the PR approach was way too reactive.
Like this whole thing with Ray Rice. Too soft on the front end. Then the video surfaces and BOOM indefinite suspension. Ah...OK...so what about Greg Hardy? So if it embarrasses the NFL too much, we suspend indefinitely. But if it was done without a lot of people knowing about it, we just keep quiet about it?
As I said last week...complete clusterf*ck.
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The Vikes are in a no win situation.
They could cut him outright and take a big stand (I would applaud that, and many others would).
However, when he signs with the Cowboys, and has a big year in 2015, the narrative with be about "redemption", and how he's changed so much since last year.
The truth is, he won't have changed anything but his uniform, but we'll be sold a pile of garbage because it makes for a better story than: Bad guy is still good at football. Still makes millions.
Agree for the most part...but there is a middle ground: To let the process play out before making a final decision. Lots of organizations do that while allegations are being investigated: police departments, schools, etc. And if he's found guilty, action should be taken by the league, not just the team.
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Agree for the most part...but there is a middle ground: To let the process play out before making a final decision. Lots of organizations do that while allegations are being investigated: police departments, schools, etc. And if he's found guilty, action should be taken by the league, not just the team.
Right, but how far should NFL teams go with that approach?
Alleged murder? Alleged Rape? Alleged child abuse (with photos)?
I'm not trying to prematurity convict somebody (they will have their day in court), but I also don't want a bunch of bad people suiting up for my favorite team. I know, that makes me a hypocrite.
It's tough to be a fan sometimes.
One thing is for sure, I used to REALLY like AP. But, I don't like him enough to make excuses for him. He took a whip and beat a 4 yr old. It's not acceptable to me. I cannot justify it. I know a lot of MN fans are twisting themselves into knots trying to justify it. I won't do it.
He's a bad guy, and I hope he never wears a Vikes jersey again.
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Right, but how far should NFL teams go with that approach?
Alleged murder? Alleged Rape? Alleged child abuse (with photos)?
I'm not trying to prematurity convict somebody (they will have their day in court), but I also don't want a bunch of bad people suiting up for my favorite team. I know, that makes me a hypocrite.
It's tough to be a fan sometimes.
One thing is for sure, I used to REALLY like AP. But, I don't like him enough to make excuses for him. He took a whip and beat a 4 yr old. It's not acceptable to me. I cannot justify it. I know a lot of MN fans are twisting themselves into knots trying to justify it. I won't do it.
He's a bad guy, and I hope he never wears a Vikes jersey again.
There was a girl wearing a Peterson jersey yesterday and I couldn't fathom it. Really, really odd.
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How about this...
If you are arrested or indicted for a violent crime, you are placed on indefinite suspension. The team can keep you, pay you, and get a roster exemption. Or they can cut you and not have to pay you. (Like any other player.)
Afterwards, once you are convicted, plead out, or even put into some diversion program, you are then placed on some sort of unpaid leave based on a scale of some sort.
The concept isn't that hard.
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How about this...
If you are arrested or indicted for a violent crime, you are placed on indefinite suspension. The team can keep you, pay you, and get a roster exemption. Or they can cut you and not have to pay you. (Like any other player.)
Afterwards, once you are convicted, plead out, or even put into some diversion program, you are then placed on some sort of unpaid leave based on a scale of some sort.
The concept isn't that hard.
But it is when you've got a team that needs to win in order for you to keep your job.
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Trying to distract the problems of the NFL with some football talk for a quick second...
I think the Niners are in a heap of trouble. Body language says a lot, and Harbaugh looks checked out. He and Balke have their differences, and I think if they go 5-7, come December, Harbaugh and the organization will mutually agree that he's gone (and on his way to Michigan).
Kaepernick is a maddening QB. He has a rocket of an arm, fantastic speed and moves, but something just is missing there. I don't think the picks last night were on him, the Bears made some really incredible plays on all 3 picks, but you could tell once they got down 21-20, it felt like there was no way Kaepernick was leading them back.
I have no idea what to make of the Bears, thought they'd be 1-1 at this point, but no way did I think this is how they'd get there. I said before the season on here I thought Willie Young and Fuller would wind up as their two best defensive players, and that may be the case.
Missed the early games yesterday, but the NFL season has been weird (to say the least). Teams keep coming back from double digit second half deficits to win games. Pack was down (correct me if I'm wrong) 21-3, and as an observer, I had complete confidence they were going to come back and win that game yesterday.
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But it is when you've got a team that needs to win in order for you to keep your job.
Right. That's why the NFL needs to take this out of their hands and have a centralized policy.
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There was a girl wearing a Peterson jersey yesterday and I couldn't fathom it. Really, really odd.
You mean this lady holding her version of a switch wearing a Peterson jersey?
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/14/tailgating-fan-wears-peterson-jersey-hits-people-with-switch/#at_pco=cfd-1.0
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxgJPblCYAAZlYj.jpg)
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You mean this lady holding her version of a switch wearing a Peterson jersey?
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/14/tailgating-fan-wears-peterson-jersey-hits-people-with-switch/#at_pco=cfd-1.0
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxgJPblCYAAZlYj.jpg)
I'm not a confrontational guy, but if I saw that in person, I probably would have gotten into a verbal altercation.
That has to be the dumbest sh*t I've ever seen.
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Made even more fantastic by the fact that it's a Vikings fan wearing it, not even an opponent fan doing it to make fun of them.
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I'm not a confrontational guy, but if I saw that in person, I probably would have gotten into a verbal altercation.
That has to be the dumbest sh*t I've ever seen.
I agree. Seriously, who wears sandals in Minnesota in September?
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and zubas! do even they still make those zubas?
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I'm not a confrontational guy, but if I saw that in person, I probably would have gotten into a verbal altercation.
That has to be the dumbest sh*t I've ever seen.
I've changed my mind. I used to think the Bears had the dumbest fans around.
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You mean this lady holding her version of a switch wearing a Peterson jersey?
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/14/tailgating-fan-wears-peterson-jersey-hits-people-with-switch/#at_pco=cfd-1.0
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxgJPblCYAAZlYj.jpg)
That's almost enough to make someone go all RayRice on her.
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Kaepernick is a maddening QB. He has a rocket of an arm, fantastic speed and moves, but something just is missing there. I don't think the picks last night were on him, the Bears made some really incredible plays on all 3 picks, but you could tell once they got down 21-20, it felt like there was no way Kaepernick was leading them back.
Though it pains me to say, Conte made an incredible interception on the first pick. That being said...I don't think Kaepernick could have stared at Boldin much longer. That throw was def. on him as he never looked the safety off.
I have to go have a drink now after giving Conte credit for anything.
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Not sure if this has been shared but is pretty cringeworth also
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/9/11/6137819/ravens-fans-in-ray-rice-jerseys-interviewed (http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/9/11/6137819/ravens-fans-in-ray-rice-jerseys-interviewed)
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I've changed my mind. I used to think the Bears had the dumbest fans around.
I disagree with this. Bears fans are like any other fans, blindly supportive of times, but what fans aren't? The Bears fans I know are typically realistic about expectations as a whole for their team. I think they may give more credit or benefit of the doubt to individual players, but their overall feelings on their team seem to be pretty realistic. Bear down is pretty darn annoying, though.
Vikings fans are just plain not intelligent. "SKOL VIKINGS! We're the best! Brett Favre! Ryan Longwell! Packers suck!" That's about all that comes to mind when I think of Vikings fans.
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I'm listening to WSCR replay Rick Spielman's press conference...and oh my...what a f*cking train wreck. That was not well thought out at all. And the owner is nowhere to be seen.
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Adrian Beat-his-son. Sorry, shouldn't make fun of it really, but just fits too well.
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I'm not a confrontational guy, but if I saw that in person, I probably would have gotten into a verbal altercation.
That has to be the dumbest sh*t I've ever seen.
I saw an even dumber fan on NBC on Friday morning. The Today Show was doing a story on Rice, and how some Baltimore fans were still wearing RR jerseys. They interviewed a 40ish female Baltimore fan who said, in response to why she was wearing the jersey, "any woman who hits a man, deserves to be hit back". OMFG.
That takes the cake. The Viking fan is a close second.
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I disagree with this. Bears fans are like any other fans, blindly supportive of times, but what fans aren't? The Bears fans I know are typically realistic about expectations as a whole for their team. I think they may give more credit or benefit of the doubt to individual players, but their overall feelings on their team seem to be pretty realistic. Bear down is pretty darn annoying, though.
Vikings fans are just plain not intelligent. "SKOL VIKINGS! We're the best! Brett Favre! Ryan Longwell! Packers suck!" That's about all that comes to mind when I think of Vikings fans.
I was just kidding with the comment since there are so many bear fans here
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Second allegation surfacing now on Petersen. Could the Vikings and the NFL be any more tone deaf? It really is becoming a joke.
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This part is probably the part that pisses me off the most and is total BS.
I find it VERY hard to believe that was the first time Ray Rice hit his girlfriend/fiance/wife. I find it VERY hard to believe that was the only son Peterson ever hit (and the new allegations this evening show that). Same with McDonald, same with Hardy, I'd be shocked if all of those incidents were "isolated".
The BS double standard that exists for high profile players (Rice, Hardy, Peterson) is awful, just awful and makes me sick.
AJ Jefferson (Vikes, cut immediately after DV charge), Chris Cook (Vikes, inactive for 10 games on domestic assault charges), Caleb King (Vikes, cut days after arrested for assault).
Where was their "due process" Wilf/Spielman?
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Second allegation surfacing now on Petersen. Could the Vikings and the NFL be any more tone deaf? It really is becoming a joke.
Idk that it makes much difference...his defense is clearly that he feels he did nothing wring, and what he did was in the name of discipline. If anything, another kid probably helps fortify that 'defense' and narrative. Its ridiculous of course, but there are already plenty of folks coming to his defense for that reason.
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This part is probably the part that pisses me off the most and is total BS.
I find it VERY hard to believe that was the first time Ray Rice hit his girlfriend/fiance/wife. I find it VERY hard to believe that was the only son Peterson ever hit (and the new allegations this evening show that). Same with McDonald, same with Hardy, I'd be shocked if all of those incidents were "isolated".
The BS double standard that exists for high profile players celebrities/rich people(Rice, Hardy, Peterson) is awful, just awful and makes me sick.
AJ Jefferson (Vikes, cut immediately after DV charge), Chris Cook (Vikes, inactive for 10 games on domestic assault charges), Caleb King (Vikes, cut days after arrested for assault).
Where was their "due process" Wilf/Spielman?
FTFY
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Idk that it makes much difference...his defense is clearly that he feels he did nothing wring, and what he did was in the name of discipline. If anything, another kid probably helps fortify that 'defense' and narrative. Its ridiculous of course, but there are already plenty of folks coming to his defense for that reason.
Where I think it makes a difference is the ridiculous presser the Vikes had today. I'm sorry, but they HAD TO know what was going on. This case was in front of a grand jury weeks ago (no idea why no indictment the first go around). If the Vikes wanted to do what they did today, they should have just issued a statement "we're monitoring the situation and will assess the proceedings as the week continues". Spielman could barely put a sentence together at times.
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Idk that it makes much difference...his defense is clearly that he feels he did nothing wring, and what he did was in the name of discipline. If anything, another kid probably helps fortify that 'defense' and narrative. Its ridiculous of course, but there are already plenty of folks coming to his defense for that reason.
No it makes the Vikings look terrible. They reinstate him, hold a joke of a press conference, only to have a new allegation surface about four hours later. If it wasn't so tragic, it would be laughable.
After a week of utterly terrible headlines, the Vikings thought it would be a good idea to play him after this? Who on earth thinks that's smart?
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www.vikingsmessageboard.com.
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www.vikingsmessageboard.com.
Wow.
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This crap is actually making me care less and less about the NFL. I know I'm in the minority, but it is just wearing on me.
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Sorry if this was already posted
http://devour.com/video/what-does-it-stand-for/
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Kudos to Radisson Hotels, about time someone pulled a sponsorship.
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Does AP only get suspended if there's a video?
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Vikings released a statement that they knew about the second accusation but reinstated him anyway. Incredible.
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Vikings released a statement that they knew about the second accusation but reinstated him anyway. Incredible.
This is just amazing. He doesn't even deny beating the kids in any of these cases. Rather he claims to just be being a good parent and providing discipline.
In this new case, he states that it wouldn't have even happy if the 4 year old would have just sat there and took the beating.
Fabulous. This man should be in jail.
If he did this to another full grown man, he would be in jail, but to a 4 year old….he claims it is just good parenting.
I think he should be banned before Ray Rice and Rice clearly should be banned.
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Excuse me, but how many more 4-year old sons does AP have?
And can't we put him in jail before he kills one of these kids?
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Good on Radisson. But how can the University of Minnesota Children's hospital continue giving support?
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Excuse me, but how many more 4-year old sons does AP have?
And can't we put him in jail before he kills one of these kids?
He's been quoted as saying he has no idea how many kids he's fathered.
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Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/v/lpkZUygwvas?hl=en_US&version=3
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/v/LIcDg2Vyqz4?version=3
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The argument that they need to let the legal process play out is BS. AP admits to everything and even boasted about hitting the kid in the nuts with the branch one time.
What happened isn't a debate, he's admitted to it all, just claimed he was being a good father.
Whether he is legally culpable has no bearing on the leagues actions…they know what happened, now they should act on it.
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The NFL and the Vikes have big enough balls to blackmail the state into funding a 1billion dollar stadium, but they don't have the guts to suspend a guy until the legal process is finished.
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Tony Dungy comes out and says players need second chances? The same guy who said Michael Sam would be a distraction? What a gutless piece of sh*t.
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Tony Dungy comes out and says players need second chances? The same guy who said Michael Sam would be a distraction? What a gutless piece of sh*t.
Ugh.
The second chance stuff is such BS.
By next season, there will be a redemption narrative for Peterson when he's playing for the Cowboys. We'll hear all about it with some sappy pregame interviews, and then everybody can believe he's a good person again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
It happened with Vick. It'll happen for Peterson.
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I don't mind second chances if the behavior does indeed change. (Although I can do without the over-the-top second chances.)
A great example is Brandon Marshall, who had all sorts of issues including a domestic violence charge. But he has been pretty proactive about his subsequent diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, and has been trying to raise awareness of that disease and mental illness in general. And since that diagnosis, he hasn't had any legal issues at all.
So redemption can happen. But it has to be genuine. And it takes time. But if Peterson genuinely wants to change his behavior and those of others, and is public about this, I have no problem with him resuming his career.
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I don't mind second chances if the behavior does indeed change. (Although I can do without the over-the-top second chances.)
A great example is Brandon Marshall, who had all sorts of issues including a domestic violence charge. But he has been pretty proactive about his subsequent diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, and has been trying to raise awareness of that disease and mental illness in general. And since that diagnosis, he hasn't had any legal issues at all.
So redemption can happen. But it has to be genuine. And it takes time. But if Peterson genuinely wants to change his behavior and those of others, and is public about this, I have no problem with him resuming his career.
In theory, I agree, but in practice, I think it's rare.
I know the league can't really do it, but I'd love to see zero tolerance, and just start clearing these guys out. For every Brandon Marshall, I'm afraid there are 5 other guys who aren't really "better", but just quieter about their bad behavior when they are given second chances.
Hell, Favre was taking dong pics late in his career. Dude never changed. Always a creep, but we were all sold this "Brett is like a kid out there playing football" image because it sells viewership.
I know the owners won't do it, because they literally only care about $, but I'd like to see the league take a stand.
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I don't disagree with anything you say here Canned.
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In theory, I agree, but in practice, I think it's rare.
I know the league can't really do it, but I'd love to see zero tolerance, and just start clearing these guys out. For every Brandon Marshall, I'm afraid there are 5 other guys who aren't really "better", but just quieter about their bad behavior when they are given second chances.
Hell, Favre was taking dong pics late in his career. Dude never changed. Always a creep, but we were all sold this "Brett is like a kid out there playing football" image because it sells viewership.
I know the owners won't do it, because they literally only care about $, but I'd like to see the league take a stand.
Zero tolerance for "creeps" in the ultra violent world of professional football? Good luck with that.
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Zero tolerance for "creeps" in the ultra violent world of professional football? Good luck with that.
I agree, it's impossible... I guess I'm just venting a little.
The league is so powerful right now, it can do anything it wants, and it won't make a dent.
Given that, I'd like to see them use that power to clean up their own league.
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I agree, it's impossible... I guess I'm just venting a little.
The league is so powerful right now, it can do anything it wants, and it won't make a dent.
Given that, I'd like to see them use that power to clean up their own league.
Maybe with a new Commish...
The thing that separates Marshall is that it was an emotional maturity to acknowledge he had a problem, seek treatment/help, and turn things around. He was still reasonably young at 27-28 when he turned it around, so there was some growing up he did. The league didn't do much to dissuade him. I mean, he was only suspended once that I remember (the 3 gamer with the Broncos) and got a pretty large contract with the Dolphins in the midst of his shenanigans, which clearly shows that it wasn't a MAJOR deterrent.
The only person I can think of who has sort of settled down after league intervention is Pacman Jones, but he's still no angel. And Goodell used him as a PR spectacle for his "power" to change behavior. Otherwise the league hasn't shown any interest in correcting bad behavior. So unfortunately, while I agree with Canned, I see little precedent for it. Especially when the $$$ continues to fall like manna from the sky.
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I would be curious to see a breakdown by sport in terms of arrests, types, convictions...
How does the NFL compare to MLB, the NBA, or the NHL?
Heard some talking heads this AM, opine to see if the violent nature of football, concussions and the like can lead to this type of behavior. I seriously don't know, but at least something to consider.
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Anheuser-Busch with a strongly worded message... Good on them?
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Lions update, multiple injuries in the secondary. A yearly occurrence. Bringing guys in off the street to play nickel against the Packers. What could possibly go wrong? ::)
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Anheuser-Busch with a strongly worded message... Good on them?
"Look at us, we're going to talk a big game and pretend to care, but no way in hell we're giving up the $200 million we're getting out of our deal with you." Means absolutely nothing. Pull out of the deal and I'll be impressed. We all know that won't happen.
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Lions update, multiple injuries in the secondary. A yearly occurrence. Bringing guys in off the street to play nickel against the Packers. What could possibly go wrong? ::)
Hey, the last 2 times the Pack played at the Lions Rodgers either missed or was knocked out early and they lost. (Or was it 2 of the last 3?) Maybe Fairley and Suh can gang tackle Rodgers with his helmet off during warmups or something.
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"Look at us, we're going to talk a big game and pretend to care, but no way in hell we're giving up the $200 million we're getting out of our deal with you." Means absolutely nothing. Pull out of the deal and I'll be impressed. We all know that won't happen.
McDonald's, Visa and Campbell Soup Co. say they have also voiced concerns to the league.
We'll see where it goes. Money always has the final say.
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Anheuser-Busch with a strongly worded message... Good on them?
Beer company coming out against domestic violence? I am pretty sure the late night talk show hosts' comedy teams are coming up with some pretty good lines about this.
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Lions update, multiple injuries in the secondary. A yearly occurrence. Bringing guys in off the street to play nickel against the Packers. What could possibly go wrong? ::)
That, along with the packers defense. I am taking the over.
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"Look at us, we're going to talk a big game and pretend to care, but no way in hell we're giving up the $200 million we're getting out of our deal with you." Means absolutely nothing. Pull out of the deal and I'll be impressed. We all know that won't happen.
It won't happen because it won't have to happen.
I think the complete silence we have heard from the NFL since late last week means something big is happening. (ie, Goodell could be completely out of a job.)
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The NFL's silence since Goodell's interview with CBS has been telling, but not sure in what way. They did some window dressing hiring some women for DV issues, but Goodell not being at Niners stadium opening was interesting.
Levi's Stadium has a complex financing structure. At some point, Goodell has to act like he actually is the commissioner and be at events like that. He's supposed to be the face of the league, and he's gone into hiding. Not to worry though, he'll be at The Masters in April with his green jacket on...even if someone is delivering a videotape he doesn't want to see.
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Beer company coming out against domestic violence? I am pretty sure the late night talk show hosts' comedy teams are coming up with some pretty good lines about this.
Stewart and Colbert could fire their writers - this stuff pretty much writes itself.
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Add in sweat-shop Nike coming out against child abuse....yeah, the jokes do kind of write themselves.
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And now AP must stay away.
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And now AP must stay away.
Yep. Sponsor pressure matters.
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Yep. Sponsor pressure matters.
Always about the money.
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Beer company coming out against domestic violence? I am pretty sure the late night talk show hosts' comedy teams are coming up with some pretty good lines about this.
Yes, because everyone who drinks beats the sh*t out kids and knocks out women. Dumb logic. How out POS assclowns do that crap because as a beer drinker I know I never have.
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Yes, because everyone who drinks beats the sh*t out kids and knocks out women. Dumb logic. How out POS assclowns do that crap because as a beer drinker I know I never have.
You work for a brewery, so yes, you take this a bit harder than most. But if you were to venture a guess, of domestic violence cases, you have to agree that a that a significant % involves people abusing alcohol. Not blaming alcohol companies, but it is a factor, and one that has some importance.
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You work for a brewery, so yes, you take this a bit harder than most. But if you were to venture a guess, of domestic violence cases, you have to agree that a that a significant % involves people abusing alcohol. Not blaming alcohol companies, but it is a factor, and one that has some importance.
well it was a factor with the Ray Rice incident, if Janay was sober it might not have ever happened
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You work for a brewery, so yes, you take this a bit harder than most. But if you were to venture a guess, of domestic violence cases, you have to agree that a that a significant % involves people abusing alcohol. Not blaming alcohol companies, but it is a factor, and one that has some importance.
The beer isn't the factor, it's the person throwing it in their mouth.
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The beer isn't the factor, it's the person throwing it in their mouth.
I said I don't blame the companies, said it was a factor in these situations, which it is.
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Reggie Bush everyone!
“I definitely will try to — will obviously not leave bruises or anything like that on her. But I definitely will discipline her harshly depending on what the situation is.” (in reference to his 1 year old daughter.)
I didn't forget a digit there, 1 year old.
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Reggie Bush everyone!
“I definitely will try to — will obviously not leave bruises or anything like that on her. But I definitely will discipline her harshly depending on what the situation is.” (in reference to his 1 year old daughter.)
I didn't forget a digit there, 1 year old.
Don't blame him, that's what the kid gets for not using real words.
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Don't have any kids so I don't know but what could a 1 year old possibly do that is so bad it warrants (physical) punishment and would actually understand the punishment?
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Don't have any kids so I don't know but what could a 1 year old possibly do that is so bad it warrants (physical) punishment and would actually understand the punishment?
A DS commentator said and I agree, "If you are disciplining your 1 year old, you are doing it wrong."
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So this presser in Atlanta at 2pm CST should be "interesting".
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A DS commentator said and I agree, "If you are disciplining your 1 year old, you are doing it wrong."
You're not doing it wrong, you aren't fit to be a parent.
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You're not doing it wrong, you aren't fit to be a parent.
Oh come on. It's "cultural".
Fun fact: medical professionals are taught to suspect, at least a little, abuse if a kid shows up with bruises. Except if those bruises are on the shins since kids tend to fall/run in to things frequently. So if you want to get away with beating your kids, hit them in the shins.
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You work for a brewery, so yes, you take this a bit harder than most. But if you were to venture a guess, of domestic violence cases, you have to agree that a that a significant % involves people abusing alcohol. Not blaming alcohol companies, but it is a factor, and one that has some importance.
(http://www.bjs.gov/content/acf/images/figure3_table6.gif)
source (where the chart is more legible)
http://www.bjs.gov/content/acf/6_relationship_victim_offender.cfm
Alcohol-related incidents of violence were more likely than other violent incidents known to law enforcement to involve victims and offenders who were in a domestic relationship (47% vs. 31%)
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A DS commentator said and I agree, "If you are disciplining your 1 year old, you are doing it wrong."
False. One year olds can certainly understand limits and need to be taught acceptable behavior. Otherwise, those little f*ckers get into everything. One year olds are monsters of destruction.
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False. One year olds can certainly understand limits and need to be taught acceptable behavior. Otherwise, those little f*ckers get into everything. One year olds are monsters of destruction.
Yeah, with my 6 week old, I tend to hold her upside down by her legs until she stops cries. I mean, she spit up on my work shirt the other day. You hear that, spit up, right on it.
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Yeah, with my 6 week old, I tend to hold her upside down by her legs until she stops cries. I mean, she spit up on my work shirt the other day. You hear that, spit up, right on it.
Pro-tip: hold their head under water and they stop crying much faster.
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I know you guys are joking, but it's not funny.
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I know you guys are joking, but it's not funny.
You are exactly right, child abuse isn't funny at all. But humor can be used to make a point and make people critically think.
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For real though, one year olds can and should learn limits. Otherwise, they keep pulling all the tupperware out onto the floor again.
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Oh come on. It's "cultural".
Fun fact: medical professionals are taught to suspect, at least a little, abuse if a kid shows up with bruises. Except if those bruises are on the shins since kids tend to fall/run in to things frequently. So if you want to get away with beating your kids, hit them in the shins.
Or just have them play sports. No kidding, 3 different times someone(typically the nurse) at a school(3 different schools) I attended reported my parents as abusive because I'd come into school with bruises all over the place. I just played a lot of sports and played them very hard. One of the times the principal, who knew my family brought the nurse out to watch me at recess....she apologized for the false complaint. ;D
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Or just have them play sports. No kidding, 3 different times someone(typically the nurse) at a school(3 different schools) I attended reported my parents as abusive because I'd come into school with bruises all over the place. I just played a lot of sports and played them very hard. One of the times the principal, who knew my family brought the nurse out to watch me at recess....she apologized for the false complaint. ;D
Sounds like a Chicos story.
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Jonathan Dwyer, come on down!
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While we're on the NFL, NFL teams/owners, NFL sponsors hypocrisy, flip-flop train... how about FSU suspending Jameis Winston for swearing in public, but he received no punishment surrounding his rape fiasco?
I agree with this take: http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/there-is-so-much-hypocrisy-and-fake-apologies-and-back-peddling-going-on-right-now-in-the-nfl-i-cant-even-wrap-my-mind-around-it/
More on Jameis: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11543633/after-latest-incident-how-many-strikes-jameis-winston-florida-state-seminoles-get
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Jonathan Dwyer, come on down!
Two weeks ago we wouldn't have heard a peep about this guy unless we lived in Phoenix.
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Don't have any kids so I don't know but what could a 1 year old possibly do that is so bad it warrants (physical) punishment and would actually understand the punishment?
You don't even have kids and you figured it out pretty easily. I have them and it's equally as obvious.
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Two weeks ago we wouldn't have heard a peep about this guy unless we lived in Phoenix.
Yup. And, I'm betting the Cardinals/NFL wouldn't have done anything to the guy two weeks ago and they won't do anything now unless a sponsor threatens to pull money.
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Nice to see ESPN flip-flopping on their stance as well:
http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/8813/late-to-react-panthers-simply-followed-vikings-lead-with-greg-hardy-decision
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Dwyer wanted to up the ante by, allegedly, headbutting his wife and hitting an infant.
Take that Rice and AP!
The Jameis Winston thing is so stupid. For all the crap he has done while at FSU: crablegs, bb guns and windows, etc. this is what gets him suspended, being 3 months late with an internet meme.
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I said it last week, and worth repeating...
TB is f'n awful. That's not even strong enough.
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I said it last week, and worth repeating...
TB is f'n awful. That's not even strong enough.
yep...
Watching McCown looking miserable has made me wonder just how good Trestman is with QB's. He made McCown look like a top 10 QB last year...now? Josh looks like a joke.
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I said it last week, and worth repeating...
TB is f'n awful. That's not even strong enough.
Herm Edwards disagrees with you.
http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/4729/edwards-bucs-are-super-bowl-bound
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Herm Edwards disagrees with you.
http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/4729/edwards-bucs-are-super-bowl-bound
So Herman was better as a coach than he is as a prognosticator....
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yep...
Watching McCown looking miserable has made me wonder just how good Trestman is with QB's. He made McCown look like a top 10 QB last year...now? Josh looks like a joke.
One of my friends who is a huge Bears fan, was a VERY vocal McCown supporter and Cutler-hater. He threw a fit when McCown was allowed to walk and thought we should have parted with Cutler cause McCown was the better QB and option last year.
Naturally, I gave him some grief last night after the first half, and he came back with a litany of excuses about how its not McCown's fault and he would still be EXCELLING in Chicago
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So Herman was better as a coach than he is as a prognosticator....
Not a banner year for that man
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Surprise! Goodell said nothing and got owned by TMZ
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Surprise! Goodell said nothing and got owned by TMZ
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11551518/how-ray-rice-scandal-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl
And ESPN, wow a good read.
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Thoughts as I read:
1. Scumbag owners and scumbag Goodell/NFL.
2. Good on Harbaugh and whomever else within the Ravens wanted Rice out immediately.
3. How, after reading this, can anyone actually believe that this "independent" investigation will actually be independent, unbiased and not influenced by the NFL, the owners, the Ravens organization or anyone associated with those groups?
4. Remember all the bullcrap "what if Janay hit Ray and then he hit her in defense" and other similar arguments in the Rice thread? While we, the public, could very well accept those as possible truths, the NFL, the owners, and nearly everyone involved knew the real truth. So all those hypotheticals? Completely asinine and irrelevant.
5. It's clear that the only reason that action was taken after the second video was because with only verbal allegations/narratives and the first video in the public eye, there wasn't enough of a PR problem for the sponsors to pull out and the big boys to lose money. When the second video came out, and sponsorship dollars were threatened due to the PR problem, the Ravens and NFL decided that whatever Rice brought to the team/league was enough to lost compared to the possible sponsor loss.
5. Just like the sad reality of life outside the NFL, people with money and high social status get favors and wield behind-the-scenes power to influence proceedings in whatever where benefits them. It's sickening.
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Sunday prediction, GB 35-Det 21. Discount double check goes for 400 yards against the Lions secondary.
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Thoughts as I read:
1. Scumbag owners and scumbag Goodell/NFL.
2. Good on Harbaugh and whomever else within the Ravens wanted Rice out immediately.
3. How, after reading this, can anyone actually believe that this "independent" investigation will actually be independent, unbiased and not influenced by the NFL, the owners, the Ravens organization or anyone associated with those groups?
4. Remember all the bullcrap "what if Janay hit Ray and then he hit her in defense" and other similar arguments in the Rice thread? While we, the public, could very well accept those as possible truths, the NFL, the owners, and nearly everyone involved knew the real truth. So all those hypotheticals? Completely asinine and irrelevant.
5. It's clear that the only reason that action was taken after the second video was because with only verbal allegations/narratives and the first video in the public eye, there wasn't enough of a PR problem for the sponsors to pull out and the big boys to lose money. When the second video came out, and sponsorship dollars were threatened due to the PR problem, the Ravens and NFL decided that whatever Rice brought to the team/league was enough to lost compared to the possible sponsor loss.
5. Just like the sad reality of life outside the NFL, people with money and high social status get favors and wield behind-the-scenes power to influence proceedings in whatever where benefits them. It's sickening.
Let it play out. Seems like you are judge and jury before the investigation is complete. Don't you find it odd that the only other time a third party was called in that the NFL came out not looking good, including Goodell? Bountygate. It was independent then, so why can't it be independent now with the result? Will the report be "wrong" if it doesn't come across as 100% to your liking? I'm just curious. Personally, I think the investigation will prove Goodell did not lie, he didn't see the video. It will also condemn the league in many ways. That won't be good enough for some people.
Goodell has already admitted wrong doing several times now, going back to before the video even came out. Way too many people here buried Harbaugh a few weeks ago. Oh, and ESPN OTL has been wrong before....doesn't mean they are this time, but let it play out. Plenty more to come on this.
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And now FSU has upped Winston's suspension to the full game. What in the hell is going on? Are entities using primary punishments, see how the public view the primary then reacting to any outcry with a secondary punishment?
Yes, I know this isn't NFL. My apologies. But it's a related social topic. I think....
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And now FSU has upped Winston's suspension to the full game. What in the hell is going on? Are entities using primary punishments, see how the public view the primary then reacting to any outcry with a secondary punishment?
Yes, I know this isn't NFL. My apologies. But it's a related social topic. I think....
Yes, they will get away with what they can. It is only when there is an outcry or perceived loss of sponsor revenue that actions will be taken.
Same with the NFL. When did Goodell, the Ravens, the Vikings, the Panthers, the Cardinals take action? Only after there was a threatened loss of revenue. The NFL absolutely knew that Rice punched his wife in the face until she was unconscious and they knew it the day after it happened. There is overwhelming evidence to that fact. There is also overwhelming evidence that they didn't care.
Add up the new allegations against the Ravens today with the "independent" prosecutor who is from the same law firm as the Ravens owner and who will be overseen by old guard Goodell supporters...... 1+1 = 2 It was simply CYA by Goodell today. Goodell is done.
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Yes, they will get away with what they can. It is only when there is an outcry or perceived loss of sponsor revenue that actions will be taken.
Same with the NFL. When did Goodell, the Ravens, the Vikings, the Panthers, the Cardinals take action? Only after there was a threatened loss of revenue. The NFL absolutely knew that Rice punched his wife in the face until she was unconscious and they knew it the day after it happened. There is overwhelming evidence to that fact. There is also overwhelming evidence that they didn't care.
Add up the new allegations against the Ravens today with the "independent" prosecutor who is from the same law firm as the Ravens owner and who will be overseen by old guard Goodell supporters...... 1+1 = 2 It was simply CYA by Goodell today. Goodell is done.
I wish I could make poor decisions at my job, then when there was fallout from those decisions, get a do-over. And still keep my job.
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Maybe people will think twice before acting if their careers and pocketbooks are on the line. Seems like these stories are a weekly occurance
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http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11551518/how-ray-rice-scandal-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl
Goodell is a liar and needs to go now.
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http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11551518/how-ray-rice-scandal-unfolded-baltimore-ravens-roger-goodell-nfl
Goodell is a liar and needs to go now.
This article paints a really awful picture on the Ravens and the NFL. Heck, Bisciotti needs to be investigated by the federal government…seems like a lot of effort was made ($$$$?) to make sure that Rice got special treatment by the law.
What Bisciotti did and Goodell seems complicit in, in many ways is worse than Donald Sterling's actions.
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I wish I could make poor decisions at my job, then when there was fallout from those decisions, get a do-over. And still keep my job.
You should get into politics...if you're in a safe district you can steal stuff, snort cocaine on video, embezzle, not pay taxes, do all kinds of stuff....keep your job a long time as you keep getting voted in over and over again because you have the correct letter next to your name.
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You should get into politics...if you're in a safe district you can steal stuff, snort cocaine on video, embezzle, not pay taxes, do all kinds of stuff....keep your job a long time as you keep getting voted in over and over again because you have the correct letter next to your name enough money.
FTFY and 100% agreed. I suppose the NFL is just a microcosm for what goes on normally anyway.
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Let the story play out, OTL has already had to issue a major correction back tracking in the last 24 hours. They originally said the Ravens had a copy of the video via cell phone. Now they have issued a retraction.
"We want to correct an earlier report. The Ravens at no point had a cell phone video of that incident, but they had a detailed account."
Let the story play out....lots of people here buried Harbaugh 2 weeks ago because they don't like him or he's the bro-in-law of someone or whatever. Lots of people insinuating Goodell lied, they don't know that. Let it play out.
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This article paints a really awful picture on the Ravens and the NFL. Heck, Bisciotti needs to be investigated by the federal government…seems like a lot of effort was made ($$$$?) to make sure that Rice got special treatment by the law.
What Bisciotti did and Goodell seems complicit in, in many ways is worse than Donald Sterling's actions.
Not only Sterling - but worse than Rice.
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FTFY and 100% agreed. I suppose the NFL is just a microcosm for what goes on normally anyway.
Money is part of it, but in some districts you get elected for one reason and one reason only, the letter next to your name. You are virtually guaranteed a job and if you lose it, you do to another person with the same letter next to their name.
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Is ESPN serious? Is Ray Lewis serious?
"There's some things you can cover up and some things you can't cover up"
Go to 1:45
http://www.youtube.com/v/i2in0IDymBA?hl=en_US&version=3
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New week, same story. Packers just killing themselves. 9 points allowed, 0 by the defense. Will give up 7 here, but that's bound to happen when you have to punt from the 20 following a safety.
McCarthy can keep talking the talk. Until something changes, you can call me a pessimist or whatever. He develops offensive players and creates a great offensive playbook, but he has no idea how to call it coming out of the gates. When is the last time the Packers have come out strong to start a game with McCarthy as the coach, particularly against a team who has any sort of pulse as a team? I truly cannot remember the last time it's happened. The only time the offense starts to look good is when McCarthy finally decides, "Alright, well, a balanced offense isn't working, so Aaron, just take this game over." Is that good coaching, or is that just finally realizing, "Hey, my gameplan once again is failing, so let me finally decide the best player in the NFL should get the ball?" I think he is the most overrated (not worst, just saying all this praise he gets, I just don't get it) coach in the NFL.
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Are you freaking kidding me? McCarthy is a complete joke. The Lions have 3rd and short with 25 seconds left in the half trying to take it to halftime. What in the world makes you decide to take a timeout there?! You get the ball down by 5 to start the 2nd half. What good can come of taking a timeout? Oh I get it, our special teams are so good we'd probably just house the punt. Wait, no, the only thing that would happen is we fumble it and give up points. So let's just give them a free play with 25 seconds left, and, SHOCKING! They get a big gain to put them into field goal range. Good thing the Lions are awful and their kicker can't even make a chip shot so it didn't hurt, but what in the world are you thinking?! I've never played football (competitively) in my life and even I know there is NO reason to take a timeout there. What a complete joke.
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So remember when I said Jags were my surprise team this year...yeah, me neither.
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So remember when I said Jags were my surprise team this year...yeah, me neither.
Bortles looks good so far.
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So remember when I said Jags were my surprise team this year...yeah, me neither.
I remember saying they were awful. But then I said the Bills would be one of the worst in the league.
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It's only Week 3, but Cincy is the best team in football.
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Injuring yourself on a celebration? Classic Lions
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Packers going up against a terrible secondary that, on top of that, is injured and musters a whopping 7 points while giving up 9 on offense. Lions didn't even need to send their offense out onto the field to win this one. 7 points. Combine that with a gameplan of cutting your offensive field in half because you are so scared of one defensive back in week 1 and these Mike McCarthy games are becoming very hard to watch.
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Packers going up against a terrible secondary that, on top of that, is injured and musters a whopping 7 points while giving up 9 on offense. Lions didn't even need to send their offense out onto the field to win this one. 7 points. Combine that with a gameplan of cutting your offensive field in half because you are so scared of one defensive back in week 1 and these Mike McCarthy games are becoming very hard to watch.
true. Mccarthy better start reevaluating his game plans or his pants are gonna get warm
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Smoke and mirrors. However, that is the first time I can remember the Lions being able to run out the clock using that much time.
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I'm not shocked the Packers lost, but they just look very average right now. Lions are going to be tough at home, brutal on the road. At this point, no idea who wins this division. For the Vikes, Patterson has to touch the ball more. Think he had five touches today, far too few. No clue which Bears team shows up tomorrow, no idea.
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Who's excited about the Teddy Bridgewater era?
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I'm not shocked the Packers lost, but they just look very average right now. Lions are going to be tough at home, brutal on the road. At this point, no idea who wins this division. For the Vikes, Patterson has to touch the ball more. Think he had five touches today, far too few. No clue which Bears team shows up tomorrow, no idea.
I still think Green Bay is the team to beat in the division, simply because of Rogers. The Vikings are done without AP. Chicago, Green Bay, and Detroit all have big holes, but somebody has to win it. So....GB.
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I still think Green Bay is the team to beat in the division, simply because of Rogers. The Vikings are done without AP. Chicago, Green Bay, and Detroit all have big holes, but somebody has to win it. So....GB.
Depends on whether other teams in the division blow opportunities to take control of it. McCarthy will certainly give them their opportunities until it's desperation time, and then he'll finally decide, "Hey, maybe I'll let Aaron Rodgers play a role in determining the outcome of this game." Does it every year. Good stuff.
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Packers going up against a terrible secondary that, on top of that, is injured and musters a whopping 7 points while giving up 9 on offense. Lions didn't even need to send their offense out onto the field to win this one. 7 points. Combine that with a gameplan of cutting your offensive field in half because you are so scared of one defensive back in week 1 and these Mike McCarthy games are becoming very hard to watch.
You're right. That is two brutally awful game plans in 3 games.
Abandon 1/3 of the field and expect to beat Seattle?
Build your game plan around the running game against possibly the worst secondary in football?
I've always been a McCarthy fan, but can't take too much more of this. Now, against the Bears, the running game should be emphasized, so I won't be surprised if they throw 9 of the first 10 plays.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/personnel-expert-colors-2014-packers-an-8-8-team-b99354764z1-275906551.html
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Hard to believe...but ultimately the man responsible for Goodell getting fired will be...
Ray Rice
The bizarre press conference rushed up to beat the OTL report was the official beginning of the end. The problem for Goodell is Rice beat his wife, but the bigger issue is Rice also told the truth, to Goodell, in June.
Not if, but when Rice gets Goodell under oath, Goodell is really screwed. Goodell's "hope is that "independent" report can gray the matter to make Goodell come off as just incompetent instead of a liar. The AP, OTL, and TMZ reporting shows Goodell has to be lying.
You can't hide behind The Shield under oath. The bell tolls for Goodell.
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Hard to believe...but ultimately the man responsible for Goodell getting fired will be...
Ray Rice
The bizarre press conference rushed up to beat the OTL report was the official beginning of the end. The problem for Goodell is Rice beat his wife, but the bigger issue is Rice also told the truth, to Goodell, in June.
Not if, but when Rice gets Goodell under oath, Goodell is really screwed. Goodell's "hope is that "independent" report can gray the matter to make Goodell come off as just incompetent instead of a liar. The AP, OTL, and TMZ reporting shows Goodell has to be lying.
You can't hide behind The Shield under oath. The bell tolls for Goodell.
"favorite" part of the presser (this is too depressing to really enjoy, but still) was when the TMZ reporter(who knew they go to pressers) asked how come the NFL couldn't get the tape when they have an entire legal department while TMZ made one phone call......Goodell's response? I can't speak to how it was you got the tape!!! This should have been an absolutely canned answered, after 8 days you HAD to know that question was coming and he didn't have a built in response....mind boggling!!
If I have a product issue, and I have to step in front of the customer 8 days after my product really screwed up their process I'm sure as heck going to be able to explain how it got screwed up or how we are going to determine the screw up. And I'm not paid $44 million dollars!
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Hard to believe...but ultimately the man responsible for Goodell getting fired will be...
Ray Rice
The bizarre press conference rushed up to beat the OTL report was the official beginning of the end. The problem for Goodell is Rice beat his wife, but the bigger issue is Rice also told the truth, to Goodell, in June.
Not if, but when Rice gets Goodell under oath, Goodell is really screwed. Goodell's "hope is that "independent" report can gray the matter to make Goodell come off as just incompetent instead of a liar. The AP, OTL, and TMZ reporting shows Goodell has to be lying.
You can't hide behind The Shield under oath. The bell tolls for Goodell.
The bell also tolls for the Ravens organization as well. Goodell can't throw them under the bus as they are one of his bosses but their is no way to cover his ass and the Ravens ass too
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The bell also tolls for the Ravens organization as well. Goodell can't throw them under the bus as they are one of his bosses but their is no way to cover his ass and the Ravens ass too
It shouldn't be the Ravens job to discipline their own player for off the field issues that are not related to a player's preparedness for play. The league, which should be neutral, should assess penalties for behavioral issues such as this, as leaving it to the teams will necessarily result in different penalties for the same infraction.
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"favorite" part of the presser (this is too depressing to really enjoy, but still) was when the TMZ reporter(who knew they go to pressers) asked how come the NFL couldn't get the tape when they have an entire legal department while TMZ made one phone call......Goodell's response? I can't speak to how it was you got the tape!!! This should have been an absolutely canned answered, after 8 days you HAD to know that question was coming and he didn't have a built in response....mind boggling!!
If I have a product issue, and I have to step in front of the customer 8 days after my product really screwed up their process I'm sure as heck going to be able to explain how it got screwed up or how we are going to determine the screw up. And I'm not paid $44 million dollars!
AS question from Bill Simmons' mailbag, "During Bountygate, Sean Payton stated that he was not aware of an “injure-for-cash” bounty system in place. In levying the one-year suspension on Payton, Roger Goodell claimed that, “Ignorance is not an excuse.” Roger now says he “never saw the video” (of Rice). Well, Mr. Commissioner… according to you, “Ignorance is not an excuse,” right?"
If he really didn't see the video, which I doubt, he has no good excuse for not seeing it. What is also troubling is that what Hardy did sounds much worse than Rice to me, but because there is no taped evidence, he is not as scrutinized.
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New week, same story. Packers just killing themselves. 9 points allowed, 0 by the defense. Will give up 7 here, but that's bound to happen when you have to punt from the 20 following a safety.
McCarthy can keep talking the talk. Until something changes, you can call me a pessimist or whatever. He develops offensive players and creates a great offensive playbook, but he has no idea how to call it coming out of the gates. When is the last time the Packers have come out strong to start a game with McCarthy as the coach, particularly against a team who has any sort of pulse as a team? I truly cannot remember the last time it's happened. The only time the offense starts to look good is when McCarthy finally decides, "Alright, well, a balanced offense isn't working, so Aaron, just take this game over." Is that good coaching, or is that just finally realizing, "Hey, my gameplan once again is failing, so let me finally decide the best player in the NFL should get the ball?" I think he is the most overrated (not worst, just saying all this praise he gets, I just don't get it) coach in the NFL.
I said it last year, but I think Joe Philbin meant a lot more to the Packers' offense than people realize.
What boggles my mind, and I think accounts for the slow starts, is this obsession with "establishing the run" early in the game. It hasn't worked for three games now. You have one of the best QBs in football...USE HIM!
But I also think the OL isn't all that good and there is a serious depth issue at receiver right now.
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I said it last year, but I think Joe Philbin meant a lot more to the Packers' offense than people realize.
What boggles my mind, and I think accounts for the slow starts, is this obsession with "establishing the run" early in the game. It hasn't worked for three games now. You have one of the best QBs in football...USE HIM!
But I also think the OL isn't all that good and there is a serious depth issue at receiver right now.
Lack of OL might be why they are constantly trying to "establish the run".
If they have Rodgers drop back 45 times per game, he's going to get hit.
I assume they are trying to balance risk/reward.
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It shouldn't be the Ravens job to discipline their own player for off the field issues that are not related to a player's preparedness for play. The league, which should be neutral, should assess penalties for behavioral issues such as this, as leaving it to the teams will necessarily result in different penalties for the same infraction.
Based on the OTL report, the Ravens knew within hours of the incident the exact details of what happened. At that point, I'd argue they had a moral obligation to take action, which they did not. At a minimum they should have reported that to Goodell, which according to his story they did not.
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I said it last year, but I think Joe Philbin meant a lot more to the Packers' offense than people realize.
What boggles my mind, and I think accounts for the slow starts, is this obsession with "establishing the run" early in the game. It hasn't worked for three games now. You have one of the best QBs in football...USE HIM!
But I also think the OL isn't all that good and there is a serious depth issue at receiver right now.
I couldn't agree more with all of this.
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AS question from Bill Simmons' mailbag, "During Bountygate, Sean Payton stated that he was not aware of an “injure-for-cash” bounty system in place. In levying the one-year suspension on Payton, Roger Goodell claimed that, “Ignorance is not an excuse.” Roger now says he “never saw the video” (of Rice). Well, Mr. Commissioner… according to you, “Ignorance is not an excuse,” right?"
If he really didn't see the video, which I doubt, he has no good excuse for not seeing it. What is also troubling is that what Hardy did sounds much worse than Rice to me, but because there is no taped evidence, he is not as scrutinized.
John Oliver on Roger Goodell:
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2014/09/john-oliver-lampoons-roger-goodellnfl
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I said it last year, but I think Joe Philbin meant a lot more to the Packers' offense than people realize.
What boggles my mind, and I think accounts for the slow starts, is this obsession with "establishing the run" early in the game. It hasn't worked for three games now. You have one of the best QBs in football...USE HIM!
But I also think the OL isn't all that good and there is a serious depth issue at receiver right now.
Hence, my frustration with McCarthy. These were three teams whose strength is stopping the run. They should have been throwing the ball all over the field.
Sunday, against the Bears, is when you pound the run.
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Hence, my frustration with McCarthy. These were three teams whose strength is stopping the run. They should have been throwing the ball all over the field.
The sad reality is they simply do not have the receivers to do this. No speed, TEs are nonexistent (they desperately miss Finley), and the RBs aren't really pass catchers. Offense line does not appear to be capable of providing adequate protection to go totally pass heavy. They are just a terribly flawed team.
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The sad reality is they simply do not have the receivers to do this. No speed, TEs are nonexistent (they desperately miss Finley), and the RBs aren't really pass catchers. Offense line does not appear to be capable of providing adequate protection to go totally pass heavy. They are just a terribly flawed team.
I think this is dead on, I think they desperately miss Finley too. At his best, Finley was a match up monster (god knows the Bears could never stop him). I think that's what the Packers offense misses, either a freak athletic TE or a shifty RB who's a good pass catcher (in his prime Ryan Grant as an example). When I look back at previous Pack offenses, they really clicked with that matchup weapon for Rodgers.
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The sad reality is they simply do not have the receivers to do this. No speed, TEs are nonexistent (they desperately miss Finley), and the RBs aren't really pass catchers. Offense line does not appear to be capable of providing adequate protection to go totally pass heavy. They are just a terribly flawed team.
While I agree with this, I think there are a lot of flaws in the play calling. Screens have seemingly disappeared from McCarthy's playbook. Rodgers throwing a quick bubble pass out of a running formation doesn't count.
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https://vine.co/v/O7vKh6Wz5T7
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Run? What run? Who needs to run?
PS. This is how the Packers should be playing.
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Anybody who still questioned taking Cutler over McCown at the beginning of the season needs to turn in their football privileges.
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Everyone in the Bears secondary is injured. Trestman just called me to suit up.
Oh god... Bears depleted secondary vs. Rodgers.
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Ugly game, take the win and go home.
Jets...ugh...tough to watch that offensive play calling. Not much read option as I thought they should.
No idea who wins Sunday on the lakefront. Probably whoever wins turnover and field position battle. Big game for both teams. A Bears win would give them 2.5 up on the Pack, before a tough two game NFC South road trip.
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Everyone in the Bears secondary is injured. Trestman just called me to suit up.
Oh god... Bears depleted secondary vs. Rodgers.
Detroit's secondary was totally depleted. McCarthy used the old Buffalo/OJ Simpson ploy (using your best player as a decoy) and I'm guessing he will do it again.
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I disagree that the Bears secondary is depleted.
They have injuries, but their two best players back there are fine (Fuller and Jennings). Vereen is ok, Mundy/Conte are ok, but street FA's aren't that big of a step down from those guys. It's not like they lost three all pro's.
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While I agree with this, I think there are a lot of flaws in the play calling. Screens have seemingly disappeared from McCarthy's playbook. Rodgers throwing a quick bubble pass out of a running formation doesn't count.
So how long is McCarthy going to last if he and Rodgers are going to start going head to head in press conferences?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers-have-offensive-differences-b99356258z1-276412501.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers-have-offensive-differences-b99356258z1-276412501.html)
If Kobe can get a coach fired it couldn't be too hard to get McCarthy fired...might be a good thing they didn't get him a contract extension this summer like TT.
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McCarthy is not getting fired anytime soon, and Rodgers isn't Kobe.
This is a franchise with a top-down philosophy that everyone in the organization is pretty much on board with. Thompson isn't going to fire his guy after his record of success. Hell, if they didn't fire Capers after last year, why would you expect massive changes in the future?
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I have been pleasantly surprised with Mundy this year. Been a solid safety so far this year. A couple missed tackles but hes been pretty good in coverage this year. Vereen showed potential on that last play but he is still a rookie. I am shocked by the play of Kyle Fuller.
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The NFC is one giant suckfest. If geno smith didn't stink out loud, Jets would have beaten both the packers and the bears.
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The NFC is one giant suckfest. If geno smith didn't stink out loud, Jets would have beaten both the packers and the bears.
As a Jets fan I agree. But Geno is still better than Mark Sanchez.
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As a Jets fan I agree. But Geno is still better than Mark Sanchez.
They should really use Mike Vick more!
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The NFC is one giant suckfest. If geno smith didn't stink out loud, Jets would have beaten both the packers and the bears.
Meh. I hate the Packers but if McCarthy ever gets his head out of his ass theyll be fine. Bears will be fine to so long as injuries dont keep piling up.
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The NFC is one giant suckfest. If geno smith didn't stink out loud, Jets would have beaten both the packers and the bears.
Very true, but its not like the AFC is setting the world on fire. And, the Eagles defense may suck, but that offense is legit.
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Interesting DVOA data this afternoon on projected W/L and playoff projections.
DVOA has the Bears winning the North with 10.0 mean wins, Lions second with 8.6, Pack third at 8.1.
Small data size still.
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Interesting DVOA data this afternoon on projected W/L and playoff projections.
DVOA has the Bears winning the North with 10.0 mean wins, Lions second with 8.6, Pack third at 8.1.
Small data size still.
How close, historically, have DVOA predictions been to reality?
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How close, historically, have DVOA predictions been to reality?
No way to measure, it changes every week (actually every play).
All depends how you value DVOA data. I love following it personally, but don't view it as complete gospel.
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Really surprised people are after McCarthy.
Seems obvious to me that the continued problems stem from poor drafting and a poor S&C program.
Amazing to me that people want to get rid of the guy in charge of the one constant area we excel in: offense.
I still hold that Thompson is extremely over valued as a GM however I have no faith in Mark Murphy to make a good hire...so I don't know what I want to happen at this point. Hiring a new S&C guy, maybe Jim Harbaugh's guy, would be beneficial.
It's no coincidence that guys like Pete Carrol, Jim Harbaugh and Bill O'Brien bring their own S&C guys in, if you know what I mean.
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Simmons suspended by ESPN for calling Goodell a liar. Wow.
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Simmons suspended by ESPN for calling Goodell a liar. Wow.
The ironic part? He got suspended for the equivalent of 3 NFL games. Longer than Rice's punnishment. ESPN and the NFL are a joke. Hopefully this is the push FS1 needs.
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Simmons suspended by ESPN for calling Goodell a liar. Wow.
We all know Goodell lied. My guess this occurred because of pressure from the NFL and we all know money talks. Wonder if there were any threats about contract renewal.
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Simmons is an interesting case. Can really be a good writer. Sometimes not so much. Not afraid to speak his mind though. I wonder if he is tiring of ESPN because he clearly doesn't suffer fools.
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It'll be interesting to see the fall-out. He did say he would "go public" if anyone came after him for his statements.
Also, ESPN pulled the podcast where he made his statements.
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The ironic part? He got suspended for the equivalent of 3 NFL games. Longer than Rice's punnishment. ESPN and the NFL are a joke. Hopefully this is the push FS1 needs.
Also Simmons was suspended for 3 weeks for calling Goodell a liar, while Stephen A Smith intimated at best, flat out stated at worst that Janay Rice provoked her own beating.....and was suspended for one week.
ESPN is going to flush themselves down the same toilet that the NFL is.
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Simmons suspended by ESPN for calling Goodell a liar. Wow.
A bit more than that. He called out his superiors...big no no....lucky he wasn't fired. Secondly, his profanity laced tirade over Goodell when he offers no proof that he lied is not good either. At the end of the day, ESPN has the journalism side of the house and if you're going to levy charges like that, you best back them up. Simmons crossed the line, Skipper told him he's benched. Lucky he didn't get fired. It wasn't just that he said he felt Goodell lied, he repeated it over and over again emphatically as if declarotory and factual. Simmons has no idea if he did, absolutely none.
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Also Simmons was suspended for 3 weeks for calling Goodell a liar, while Stephen A Smith intimated at best, flat out stated at worst that Janay Rice provoked her own beating.....and was suspended for one week.
ESPN is going to flush themselves down the same toilet that the NFL is.
I think if you compare the direct words, they are totally different. It's one thing to intimate, let the reader get to the conclusion the person wants, which is what Smith did. Quite different than what Simmons did. Simmons won't be at ESPN long per my guys at ESPN, he wants out to go do his own thing, so none of this is surprising.
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I think if you compare the direct words, they are totally different. It's one thing to intimate, let the reader get to the conclusion the person wants, which is what Smith did. Quite different than what Simmons did. Simmons won't be at ESPN long per my guys at ESPN, he wants out to go do his own thing, so none of this is surprising.
I don't care if it's semantically different, ethically what Stephen A said is far worse that what Simmons said. Yes he called out his bosses, which could merit a suspension, I wouldn't deny that....but that's not what ESPN claims they are suspending him for.
Simmons is an opinionator, that is what he is paid for, and he expressed his opinion. ESPN reporting indicates Goodell is a liar and Simmons made his own conclusion.
The funny thing is ESPN is Obi Wan Kenobing Simmons here. If Simmons wants out he'll have an even bigger platform than he did before and the guy brings a ton of eyeballs to ESPN. However, I suspect ESPN might be ok with him going because they are looking to purge themselves of personalities bigger than the network itself.
Good thing I quit ESPN (except for Simmons) 4 years ago ;D
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I don't care if it's semantically different, ethically what Stephen A said is far worse that what Simmons said. Yes he called out his bosses, which could merit a suspension, I wouldn't deny that....but that's not what ESPN claims they are suspending him for.
Simmons is an opinionator, that is what he is paid for, and he expressed his opinion. ESPN reporting indicates Goodell is a liar and Simmons made his own conclusion.
The funny thing is ESPN is Obi Wan Kenobing Simmons here. If Simmons wants out he'll have an even bigger platform than he did before and the guy brings a ton of eyeballs to ESPN. However, I suspect ESPN might be ok with him going because they are looking to purge themselves of personalities bigger than the network itself.
Good thing I quit ESPN (except for Simmons) 4 years ago ;D
ESPN provides the masthead for Simmons. They are the publisher, they are the vehicle. That means he has play by ESPN's rules, no different than any other journalist. If he doesn't like it, he can go get his own masthead. I don't think Simmons would be bigger, the reality is that ESPN made Simmons, not the other way around. Simmons gets a tremendous amount of exposure simply by people going to ESPN with no intent of reading or watching Simmons.
What he did was blatantly wrong. The irony in all of this is that Simmons was basing a lot of his beliefs in the OTL story, which took another hit this week. They already had to walk back the video cell phone claim. Now they had to admit the text messages that Ray Rice released were "paraphrased" and they forgot to mention that they were in response to what the Ravens owner stated in texts to him.....in fact, forgot to even bother to post those texts. Now that those are out, OTL taking more than their fair share of hits. The number of edits they've had to do is pretty amazing.
I'm sure ESPN brass is not thrilled on two fronts...their own investigative journalists mistakes and then having to deal with Simmons overgrown ego (he has totally got out of control the last few years) running around claiming something as factual when he has no idea if it is. It's fine to be opinionated in his role, but there is a line and the publisher gets to draw that line. You also have to form it in a statement of an opinion. "I, Bill Simmons, believe the commissioner is not truthful or even lying because of X, Y, Z". That's not what Simmons did, and to make matters worse he dared his bosses to punish him for his hubris. Well, he was called on it.
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That's ok. ESPN will probably hire Megyn Kelly in his place, aina?
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That's ok. ESPN will probably hire Megyn Kelly in his place, aina?
That would be fine by me....good looking, smart....maybe they can put her on following Olbermann
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I think this excerpt from Outside the Beltway sums it up pretty well...and he's a Simmons fan as am I (though I think his ego is out of control).
......
But tone—and word choice—actually matters. “Liar” is inflammatory. Indeed, it has been branded a “fighting word” by the US Supreme Court and thus entitled to limited First Amendment protection. As Legum notes in the post, Simmons has been hammering Goodell on this issue “for weeks” without consequence. It’s the use of the word “liar,” then, that triggered the suspension.
Further, the facts here do not support that label. I agree with Simmons that Goodell knew when he issued the original two-game suspension that Rice had punched his then-fiancee in the face. I believe that because I “knew” that it had happened from the various press accounts. The public “knew” it as well, which is why so many were outraged by a sentence they perceived as too light. But it’s undeniable that seeing the video changed public perception of the incident. If in fact Goodell had not seen the unedited video—and I can’t prove that he had—then it’s conceivable that the visual evidence constituted “new information” in his mind, despite not offering any new facts. (For example, I’ve studiously avoided watching any of the various terrorist beheading videos over the years. I don’t think watching them will provide any information that I don’t already have and am not interested in snuff films. But it’s quite possible that actually seeing the videos would alter my analysis of the crimes, simply because of the emotional reaction.)
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I used to really like Bill Simmons. Bright guy, talented writer, unabashed sports fan who cleverly incorporated his friends and family in his pieces. Then he was "discovered" and his hat size exploded like Barry Bonds' after an off season at Biogenesis.
I am not a fan of the Goodell. He has seemed to me disingenuous on many issues, including this one. He MAY even be an outright liar. If someone says that they think he's a liar, suspect he's a liar or feel he's a liar I'm OK with that. But based on what is public knowledge at least, saying as fact that they KNOW he's a liar is, pure and simple, a lie.
Simmons just got himself a ton of free publicity. That wasn't an accident.
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Im actually a really big Simmons fan. I love his grantland articles and he has that sarcastic humor I really enjoy.
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I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here.
Good lord.
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I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here.
Good lord.
Go figure...
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Im actually a really big Simmons fan. I love his grantland articles and he has that sarcastic humor I really enjoy.
Plus he is an "objective NBA analyst" and pretends to be neutral .....LIAR!! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4
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I used to really like Bill Simmons. Bright guy, talented writer, unabashed sports fan who cleverly incorporated his friends and family in his pieces. Then he was "discovered" and his hat size exploded like Barry Bonds' after an off season at Biogenesis.
I am not a fan of the Goodell. He has seemed to me disingenuous on many issues, including this one. He MAY even be an outright liar. If someone says that they think he's a liar, suspect he's a liar or feel he's a liar I'm OK with that. But based on what is public knowledge at least, saying as fact that they KNOW he's a liar is, pure and simple, a lie.
Simmons just got himself a ton of free publicity. That wasn't an accident.
Agree with everything.
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I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here.
Good lord.
Clear as day why he was suspended, he knew he was going to be suspended and begged for it to happen. Why on earth should Simmons be supported for what he said? I'd love to hear the argument on this one.
I'm all for opinions, etc, but there is a line that is crossed. You cannot call someone a liar as a statement of fact without knowing if it is true. Number one, it is common decency. Number two, it is potentially libelous. Number three, it isn't his platform that he is using to say it....if he wishes to separate himself as an employee and make that statement, then Simmons on principle alone should quit and scream from the top of his twitter mountain all he wants.
Please argue his side, I would love to hear this...Chitown can help you. ;)
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Plus he is an "objective NBA analyst" and pretends to be neutral .....LIAR!! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/v/jKgr0teW8F4
Simmons has always been very open about being a Celtic, Red Sox, Patriot and Bruin fan. Nothing to see here.
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Clear as day why he was suspended, he knew he was going to be suspended and begged for it to happen. Why on earth should Simmons be supported for what he said? I'd love to hear the argument on this one.
I'm all for opinions, etc, but there is a line that is crossed. You cannot call someone a liar as a statement of fact without knowing if it is true. Number one, it is common decency. Number two, it is potentially libelous. Number three, it isn't his platform that he is using to say it....if he wishes to separate himself as an employee and make that statement, then Simmons on principle alone should quit and scream from the top of his twitter mountain all he wants.
Please argue his side, I would love to hear this...Chitown can help you. ;)
How did you know I was talking about you? Did you intimate that? I was just letting the reader draw their own conclusion.
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How did you know I was talking about you? Did you intimate that? I was just letting the reader draw their own conclusion.
You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons
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My favorite was Jeremiah Rivers taking Bill Simmons to task when he crapped on MU alum, Doc Rivers....because Bill didn't have all his facts straight.
@BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
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You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons
My argument is all about the context of it. Ray Rice got suspended for the equivalent of two weeks. Stephan A. got suspended for 1 week. Simmons called out Goodell, not even his own boss and got suspended for as much as Stephan A. and Ray Rice combined. It doesnt make sense. ESPN is too worried about saving their own ass when it comes to publicity and protecting the NFL and Goodells ass they are almost no better than he is. Thats whats frustrating. I will be welcoming Simmons with open arms if and when he decides to join Fox Sports 1.
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You are ducking the question, please make the case for Simmons
You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you. I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.
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You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you. I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.
You handle this so much better than I do.
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My favorite was Jeremiah Rivers taking Bill Simmons to task when he crapped on MU alum, Doc Rivers....because Bill didn't have all his facts straight.
@BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you. — Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
@BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.
— Jeremiah Rivers (@JRivers25) June 28, 2013
Little hard to figure out exactly what's going on here since you only published one side of the conversation.
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My argument is all about the context of it. Ray Rice got suspended for the equivalent of two weeks. Stephan A. got suspended for 1 week. Simmons called out Goodell, not even his own boss and got suspended for as much as Stephan A. and Ray Rice combined. It doesnt make sense. ESPN is too worried about saving their own ass when it comes to publicity and protecting the NFL and Goodells ass they are almost no better than he is. Thats whats frustrating. I will be welcoming Simmons with open arms if and when he decides to join Fox Sports 1.
The irony that you say "the context of it" and then you don't use context at all. In your own paragraph you are vastly understating what happened. He called someone a definitive LIAR on multiple occasions. That is the difference. A MAJOR difference. You're trying to make the comparison of what Simmons did and what Smith did, they're totally different, not even in the same ballpark. So why are you making that comparison?
I have to laugh about your comments about ESPN, do you think the Outside the Lines story "protected" the NFL? You can't have it both ways. Sure, they have a major investment in the NFL, there is an inherent conflict of interest as a result, but that's the deal when you have an organization as both a journalistic enterprise and the rights holder. I could give you countless examples about MSNBC, NY Times, Fox, etc. That's the way it goes, but to implying they are protecting the NFL it seems to me you are ignoring greatly all the shots they are taking at the NFL. If Simmons hadn't called Goodell a liar, he wouldn't have been suspended and his comments against the NFL and Goodell would have remained, none of which "protect the NFL".
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I think this excerpt from Outside the Beltway sums it up pretty well...and he's a Simmons fan as am I (though I think his ego is out of control).
......
But tone—and word choice—actually matters. “Liar” is inflammatory. Indeed, it has been branded a “fighting word” by the US Supreme Court and thus entitled to limited First Amendment protection. As Legum notes in the post, Simmons has been hammering Goodell on this issue “for weeks” without consequence. It’s the use of the word “liar,” then, that triggered the suspension.
Further, the facts here do not support that label. I agree with Simmons that Goodell knew when he issued the original two-game suspension that Rice had punched his then-fiancee in the face. I believe that because I “knew” that it had happened from the various press accounts. The public “knew” it as well, which is why so many were outraged by a sentence they perceived as too light. But it’s undeniable that seeing the video changed public perception of the incident. If in fact Goodell had not seen the unedited video—and I can’t prove that he had—then it’s conceivable that the visual evidence constituted “new information” in his mind, despite not offering any new facts. (For example, I’ve studiously avoided watching any of the various terrorist beheading videos over the years. I don’t think watching them will provide any information that I don’t already have and am not interested in snuff films. But it’s quite possible that actually seeing the videos would alter my analysis of the crimes, simply because of the emotional reaction.)
It strikes me as funny the linguistic gymnastics that have to be done to show Simmons was wrong and yet he is suspended 3 weeks. Essentially, ESPN has determined that an opinion maker calling someone a liar(not provable but "likely" by even your quoted writer) and challenging the companies authority merits a longer suspension than a man you punched his wife unconscious in an elevator as well as fellow opinion maker who on-air intimated that women can provoke their own beatings. We have no issue with that?
Additionally, the very commissioner who we are bristling at being called a liar, suspended a coach for a year with no proof because "ignorance is not a defense".....is using the ignorance defense as to why he didn't do more in the Ray Rice scenario.
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You drew the conclusion that I was talking about you. I never mentioned you by name, and now you are bent out of shape by it, by your own words that folks can intimate things and draw their own conclusions.
Where have I said you were talking about me? I have no idea who you are talking about. If it's me, that's cool....certainly not bent out of shape by it. If it's someone else, that's fine. Still the same original question, regardless of whom you are speaking about, please explain how management (IN THIS CASE) is wrong for what they did?
Thanks
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Simmons called Goodell a liar, because he said he didn't what was on the tape. If Goodell had read this, than it strikes me he had a pretty good idea of what happened on the tape.
(http://02804cf22a6e7b7042d7-acae2c2628dcdf3f1dfc3ee4f6e97624.r48.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ray-rice-police-report-arrest-hit-girlfriend.jpg)
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Little hard to figure out exactly what's going on here since you only published one side of the conversation.
It was a one way twitter rant by Rivers toward an article that Simmons posts. No responses from Simmons that I'm aware of.
Here's the entire article
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/doc-rivers-son-jeremiah-sounds-off-espn-bill-150333520.html
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It was a one way twitter rant by Rivers toward an article that Simmons posts. No responses from Simmons that I'm aware of.
Here's the entire article
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/doc-rivers-son-jeremiah-sounds-off-espn-bill-150333520.html
Ah ha, so as evidence that Bill Simmons says untrue and unverified things, you publish twitter postings of a private citizen with an observable bias in which that person claims that Bill Simmons is wrong.....without proof that he is wrong
OK so if someone doesn't have proof but what they say agrees with my point it is invariably fact, good to know
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Reinko
He has no proof that Goodell knew what was on the tape in terms of the veracity of the incident. We all know James Foley was beheaded, and we can imagine in our minds how terrible it would be. That's quite a bit different than actually seeing it. The video makes all the difference in the world. If read a story about a kid walking across the street and is killed being hit by a car. I'm jarred by reading it, but if there is video of it and I SEE the video, it takes it to a different level...it might even change my view (I might see the kid was in the wrong, I might see the car targeted the kid, I might see that the driver was slumped over the wheel). The video, actually seeing it, MATTERS.
Did Goodell know that Rice punched his fiance? Yes. Goodell has not denied this. But there is a material difference in hearing about something and seeing it. That's where Simmons is wrong. It would be interesting to see Goodell call out Simmons claim that he would fail a lie detector test....it won't happen, but interesting nonetheless.
If you're going to call someone a liar, you better have proof to back it up. If Simmons is so insulted, quit his job because he works for a network that apparently has no scruples, go independent and gather his own audience on his own....and let any libel suits or any other negative impact come to him, not his employer.
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Here is what Simmons said
"I just think not enough is being made out of the fact that they knew about the tape and they knew what was on it. Goodell, if he didn't know what was on that tape, he's a liar. I'm just saying it. He is lying. I think that dude is lying. If you put him up on a lie detector test that guy would fail. For all these people to pretend they didn't know is such f------- bulls---. It really is. It's such f------- bulls---. And for him to go in that press conference and pretend otherwise, I was so insulted. I really was."
Seems to express it as an opinion. Also he never said Goodell saw the tape, just that he knew what was on it. I agree that Simmons was inarticulate and aggressive in his statements, but suspension for 3 weeks? Really? Especially compared with the fact that we are talking about someone who knocked a woman out cold??
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It strikes me as funny the linguistic gymnastics that have to be done to show Simmons was wrong and yet he is suspended 3 weeks. Essentially, ESPN has determined that an opinion maker calling someone a liar(not provable but "likely" by even your quoted writer) and challenging the companies authority merits a longer suspension than a man you punched his wife unconscious in an elevator as well as fellow opinion maker who on-air intimated that women can provoke their own beatings. We have no issue with that?
Additionally, the very commissioner who we are bristling at being called a liar, suspended a coach for a year with no proof because "ignorance is not a defense".....is using the ignorance defense as to why he didn't do more in the Ray Rice scenario.
I won't argue the ignorance is not a defense portion, that's a slippery slope whenever it is used. No doubt.
You can't call someone a liar, multiple times, without proof. It's simple as that. Not in the context he did it in. As far as the suspension length, you're mixing two different organizations. What the NFL does in their suspensions has no bearing on what ESPN does with theirs, or what the DOJ or Microsoft or Pam's bakery does with theirs. Totally independent. But if you truly want to go down that path, I believe the NFL after actually seeing the video, suspended Rice indefinitely.
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Reinko
He has no proof that Goodell knew what was on the tape in terms of the veracity of the incident. We all know James Foley was beheaded, and we can imagine in our minds how terrible it would be. That's quite a bit different than actually seeing it. The video makes all the difference in the world. If read a story about a kid walking across the street and is killed being hit by a car. I'm jarred by reading it, but if there is video of it and I SEE the video, it takes it to a different level...it might even change my view (I might see the kid was in the wrong, I might see the car targeted the kid, I might see that the driver was slumped over the wheel). The video, actually seeing it, MATTERS.
Did Goodell know that Rice punched his fiance? Yes. Goodell has not denied this. But there is a material difference in hearing about something and seeing it. That's where Simmons is wrong. It would be interesting to see Goodell call out Simmons claim that he would fail a lie detector test....it won't happen, but interesting nonetheless.
If you're going to call someone a liar, you better have proof to back it up. If Simmons is so insulted, quit his job because he works for a network that apparently has no scruples, go independent and gather his own audience on his own....and let any libel suits or any other negative impact come to him, not his employer.
Goodell in press conference said he didn't know what was on the tape. Fact. You claim he knew what was on the tape in the bolded above. Simmons called him a liar, and now you are calling Goodell liar too?
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Ah ha, so as evidence that Bill Simmons says untrue and unverified things, you publish twitter postings of a private citizen with an observable bias in which that person claims that Bill Simmons is wrong.....without proof that he is wrong
OK so if someone doesn't have proof but what they say agrees with my point it is invariably fact, good to know
And like I said, if Bill Simmons wants to publish his claims about Goodell being a liar independently as a private citizen, knock your socks off. Just as Jermiah Rivers had. That's not what Bill Simmons did, he is an employee of ESPN and a public personality representing ESPN.
You're smart enough to know the difference.
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Here is what Simmons said
"I just think not enough is being made out of the fact that they knew about the tape and they knew what was on it. Goodell, if he didn't know what was on that tape, he's a liar. I'm just saying it. He is lying. I think that dude is lying. If you put him up on a lie detector test that guy would fail. For all these people to pretend they didn't know is such f------- bulls---. It really is. It's such f------- bulls---. And for him to go in that press conference and pretend otherwise, I was so insulted. I really was."
Seems to express it as an opinion. Also he never said Goodell saw the tape, just that he knew what was on it. I agree that Simmons was inarticulate and aggressive in his statements, but suspension for 3 weeks? Really? Especially compared with the fact that we are talking about someone who knocked a woman out cold??
HE IS LYING. (that's a statement, he doesn't know that)
If YOU PUT HIM UP ON A LIE DETECTOR TEST THAT GUY WOULD FAIL. (that's a statement, he doesn't know that)
He may be right, but today he doesn't know. He has no proof, let it play out. Just last week it was reported the Ravens had the video on cellphone, then that was retracted....but that was bought as gospel by many people. This week, the text messages implying Ravens owner was buying off Rice....oops, now those are retracted. Let it play out. Simmons doesn't know who knew what, least of all Goodell, but he is making claims of fact that he is lying, that he would fail a lie detector test, etc.
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Goodell in press conference said he didn't know what was on the tape. Fact. You claim he knew what was on the tape in the bolded above. Simmons called him a liar, and now you are calling Goodell liar too?
Try again. He said he hadn't seen the tape, thus not knowing what it showed in video context, which is at issue here. That is different than knowing what was alledged or reported to have happened.
He read the report, interviewed the parties involved, got their side of the story, etc....he knew what went on in the elevator based on those inputs. That's far different than knowing what is on the tape. If you haven't seen the tape, you don't even know what the tape captures. I said that Goodell knew Rice punched his fiance...that is fact. He has not denied this. You're trying to jump to the conclusion that this means he saw the tape or knew exactly what is on the tape, it does not. Until one sees the tape, one doesn't know what is on the tape, etc. What is a "punch" as stated by the fiance and Rice, vs what you "see" on the tape. Could be materially different, and I suspect was based on what they told him. Try again.
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Try again. He said he hadn't seen the tape, thus not knowing what it showed in video context, which is at issue here. That is different than knowing what was alledged or reported to have happened.
He read the report, interviewed the parties involved, got their side of the story, etc....he knew what went on in the elevator based on those inputs. That's far different than knowing what is on the tape. If you haven't seen the tape, you don't even know what the tape captures. I said that Goodell knew Rice punched his fiance...that is fact. He has not denied this. You're trying to jump to the conclusion that this means he saw the tape, it does not. Try again.
I'm jumping conclusions, Goodell in press conference said he didn't know what was the tape. Simmons called him a liar for that. Those are just facts.
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Incidentally, you left out the rest of what he said
"I really hope somebody calls me or emails me and says I'm in trouble for anything I say about Roger Goodell, because if one person says that to me, I'm going public," Simmons said. "You leave me alone. The commissioner's a liar and I get to talk about that on my podcast ... Please. Call me and say I'm in trouble. I dare you."
Sorry, but when someone is paying your salary, you don't get to say that. People can whine all they want about it, but don't attack your employer and dare them to do something and don't call someone a liar for the 4th time as a point of fact, not unless you have the goods to back it up. For the record, if Goodell is lying, he will get canned as he should. None of us know if he is or not, and that's the point. Simmons could have done this very easily, but his little ego got in the way.
His contract is up in 9 months.....
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Incidentally, you left out the rest of what he said
"I really hope somebody calls me or emails me and says I'm in trouble for anything I say about Roger Goodell, because if one person says that to me, I'm going public," Simmons said. "You leave me alone. The commissioner's a liar and I get to talk about that on my podcast ... Please. Call me and say I'm in trouble. I dare you."
Sorry, but when someone is paying your salary, you don't get to say that. People can whine all they want about it, but don't attack your employer and dare them to do something and don't call someone a liar for the 4th time as a point of fact, not unless you have the goods to back it up. For the record, if Goodell is lying, he will get canned as he should. None of us know if he is or not, and that's the point. Simmons could have done this very easily, but his little ego got in the way.
His contract is up in 9 months.....
He is not being suspended by ESPN for challenging them according to their own statement, so that is immaterial to the conversation.
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I think this is a pretty good summary on why Simmons should have been suspended. (And I think he should have...but three weeks is a bit excessive.)
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/everyday-ethics/271451/bill-simmons-espn-suspension-and-the-challenges-of-editing-star-talent/?utm_content=bufferdd2bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#.VCQ46QnVsDQ.twitter
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He is not being suspended by ESPN for challenging them according to their own statement, so that is immaterial to the conversation.
That's what they are saying publicly....in my opinion. ;) In my opinion, in talking to Disney \ ESPN folks practically daily, I believe that is part of the suspension. In my opinion.
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My argument is all about the context of it. Ray Rice got suspended for the equivalent of two weeks. Stephan A. got suspended for 1 week. Simmons called out Goodell, not even his own boss and got suspended for as much as Stephan A. and Ray Rice combined. It doesnt make sense. ESPN is too worried about saving their own ass when it comes to publicity and protecting the NFL and Goodells ass they are almost no better than he is. Thats whats frustrating. I will be welcoming Simmons with open arms if and when he decides to join Fox Sports 1.
Chitown, I truly am interested in understanding how you square that ESPN is trying to protect the NFL and their butts, but allow OTL to go off on the NFL. Or allow Simmons (it's not like he hasn't gone off on Goodell the last two weeks) or any of a number of other reporters. Are you just ignoring that part and only locking in on the suspension?
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That's what they are saying publicly....in my opinion. ;) In my opinion, in talking to Disney \ ESPN folks practically daily, I believe that is part of the suspension. In my opinion.
Of course it is, but big bad ABC is too chickencrap to say it.
And for the record, if they come out and say he sis suspended for insubordination, people including myself would agree with that choice.
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Of course it is, but big bad ABC is too chickencrap to say it.
And for the record, if they come out and say he sis suspended for insubordination, people including myself would agree with that choice.
This is my point entirely.....it is insubordination, call it that and we'll all move on. If it's because he called Goodell a liar, OK I get it, but 3 weeks???? If it is the two in combination, call it that. They are horrible at optics especially around these types of issues.
What also doesn't help is when ESPN "pulled down" the ombudsman article praising Simmons. They are now claiming it was a technical issue..riiiiggghhhttt.
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Has Olbermann, Whitlock, Simmons last week been suspended for attacking the NFL, Goodell, etc? Nope. It's all about what you say and how you say it. He crossed the line. Not sure why this is so foreign to many of you, but I guess if you have grown up on deadspin and tmz where fast and loose is cool.
But hell, even the beloved Deadspin and TMZ (snicker snicker) had a story on it...even they sort of get it. "And get this ... our ESPN sources tell us there are multiple on-air people who STAND-BY the punishment ... with one on-air person telling us, "Bill went too far. Remember, Disney runs this thing."
The source adds, "You have got to know where you work at. It's not all about you.
#prayforsimmons
#justice4simmons
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Dan Lebatard, an ESPN employee who was suspended only a few weeks ago and a good friend of Bill Simmons. Addresses the realities of it in HIS OPINION. He challenged his employers and he went over the line.
He takes fans to task for saying that ESPN is protecting the NFL. "I have been stunned at ESPN's coverage of this....ESPN has POUNDED the commissioner...", pounded the NFL....people that say this stuff haven't been paying attention. You can't dare your employer to do this (which is exactly what my ESPN guys told me today....people can choose to pretend that isn't part of the reason.) "Everyone's arguing ESPN is wrong because they crushed the little guy....because it's easy" (my interpretation....it's lazy).
Starts around 14:10...goes for a few minutes
http://podbay.fm/show/301023639/e/1411684863?autostart=1
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Tedious...and I take yet another step away from professional sports (college basketball included).
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11589797/official-says-ray-rice-video-was-sent-nfl-security-chief-jeffrey-miller
ruh roh
Also, how has this voicemail from the NFL offices confirming receipt of the video along with the comment of it being terrible not been addressed more? This indeed confirms that someone at the NFL offices did see it. If the video did get sent to the NFL, was received by the NFL, and was viewed by whoever is the female voicemail, then it appears Goodell did lie. Lots of "ifs" to get past though.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11589797/official-says-ray-rice-video-was-sent-nfl-security-chief-jeffrey-miller
ruh roh
Also, how has this voicemail from the NFL offices confirming receipt of the video along with the comment of it being terrible not been addressed more? This indeed confirms that someone at the NFL offices did see it. If the video did get sent to the NFL, was received by the NFL, and was viewed by whoever is the female voicemail, then it appears Goodell did lie. Lots of "ifs" to get past though.
It's too bad whomever the source is didn't send it via registered mail. (Or maybe that's the next shoe to drop.)
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It's too bad whomever the source is didn't send it via registered mail. (Or maybe that's the next shoe to drop.)
Or maybe, they can blame his secretary. Curious how many packages the chief of NFL security gets a week.
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Bears are 1.5 point dogs? That isn't right.
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Bears are 1.5 point dogs? That isn't right.
There was a guy from Vegas on the score the other day and he said something along the lines of how there Bears have no shot to go 8-8. That got my dad so fired up he called me while I was in class.
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I am stunned a certain poster is taking the side of management here.
Good lord.
Bank it. Every time.
If one side has more power and money, chicos will defend them to the death.
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That's what they are saying publicly....in my opinion. ;) In my opinion, in talking to Disney \ ESPN folks practically daily, I believe that is part of the suspension. In my opinion.
So espn is lying too.
But roger is not. Right.....
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Or maybe, they can blame his secretary. Curious how many packages the chief of NFL security gets a week.
Given the voicemail response, it seems that someone saw the recording. I would find it hard to believe that if someone did actually see that, that they wouldn't have passed it on up the chain. That very well *could* be what happened.
What would really gall me is if some underling gets fired why the director of security and Goodell get off with a free pass.
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well it does sound strange that if only 1 person at the NFL office saw it that it was a secretary of all people
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Given the voicemail response, it seems that someone saw the recording. I would find it hard to believe that if someone did actually see that, that they wouldn't have passed it on up the chain. That very well *could* be what happened.
What would really gall me is if some underling gets fired why the director of security and Goodell get off with a free pass.
Does Goodell then retract his statement about ignorance not being an excuse? Do we replay the 2012 NFL season and allow Sean Payton to coach? All rosters must return to what they were in 2012? Payton gets his 2012 pay back and a giant apology?
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There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.
Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.
NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.
Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.
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There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.
Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.
NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.
Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.
Agreed on all of this.
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There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.
Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.
NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.
Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.
Yeah, but look how tough it was for TMZ to get the tape. They actually had to call the casino and ask for it. We can't expect the experts at NFL security to go that far.
Goodell is a liar and won't survive this!
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well it does sound strange that if only 1 person at the NFL office saw it that it was a secretary of all people
What's more strange to me is the anonymous law enforcement official who said he sent the video on his own accord because he wanted to provide insight to the NFL before they suspended him, even though it was illegal for him do so. Said he mailed it to Jeff Miller....of course he may not have known but there are two Jeff Millers at the NFL NY office. Hopefully he put "head of security", but who knows. He claims inside a note was included that included a phone number to a disposable phone number, presumably his. According to the anonymous source, the note said something to the effect that this is the Ray Rice elevator video, you have to see it, it is terrible. He is now saying he will not cooperate with the Robert Mueller investigation about his role and since Mueller has no subpoena power nor does NFLPA, both those investigations trying to understand when this guy sent it, tracking number, who signed for it, etc, may not be found...that throws a wrench in things.
As far as the voicemail response, who knows if the secretary saw something or was responding to the original video or responding to the alleged note and simply responding with “You’re right. It’s terrible"....is she talking about the situation, the video, etc. Who knows. That remains the issue, no one knows, but a lot of people think they know. Meanwhile, OTL had to issue ANOTHER retraction today. Awesome reporting on all of this stuff.
Keep letting it play out......
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11589797/official-says-ray-rice-video-was-sent-nfl-security-chief-jeffrey-miller
ruh roh
Also, how has this voicemail from the NFL offices confirming receipt of the video along with the comment of it being terrible not been addressed more? This indeed confirms that someone at the NFL offices did see it. If the video did get sent to the NFL, was received by the NFL, and was viewed by whoever is the female voicemail, then it appears Goodell did lie. Lots of "ifs" to get past though.
Doesn't confirm a thing, actually. It confirms the receipt of a package and a woman saying, it's terrible. The note inside the package specifically said you have to see this, it's terrible. No one here or anywhere else knows if she is responding to the note, or if she saw it, or whatever, In fact, we don't even know if it went to the right Jeff Miller, as there are two in the NFL offices.
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Chico's dad probably doubted the moon landing. That's really my only explanation by this point.
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Respect the process
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There's no way around this...either Goodell and the NFL are blatantly lying, or they acted willfully ignorant.
Quite honestly, I don't know which is worse. Everyone at the NFL keeps hiding behind "well, I didn't see it", like that makes everything ok.
NOT seeking out the truth and then trying to "reasonably " still punish...I mean come the f on.
Utterly shameful. Goodell must go.
I still love that you actually want the NFL to break the law to see something they are not allowed to see....I guess a means to an end. I'm curious where you draw the line as the slippery slope on all of this is quite broad.
When you say did not seek out the truth, they interviewed the parties involved...is that part of seeking it out? I would say so...are you saying that is not part of the search? They were not allowed the video as they had no legal claim to it, but they should have broken the law to get it in their search for the truth....that appears to be what you are saying. Do you think your employer should also have the same rights? Just the NFL? Any employer should be able to illegally obtain information if they wish?
Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should.
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This is not like this has been Goodell's only incident though. He has been incompetant for his entire tenure. This is just the icing on the cake. Hes become more maligned than Stern and Selig, which is very hard to do.
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Chico's dad probably doubted the moon landing. That's really my only explanation by this point.
I will say, this whole discussion has been very enlightening and is a great litmus test for how to evaluate opinions in other areas going forward.
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Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should.
That's actually not true.
If enough fans want him to go, sponsors will listen and the NFL will cave.
You want an example: Adrian Peterson.
It's just about $.
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I will say, this whole discussion has been very enlightening and is a great litmus test for how to evaluate opinions in other areas going forward.
My dad is dead, died when I was in my 20's He was a scientist, didn't doubt the moon landing, but as a scientist he wanted real facts, not conjecture. That's what I'm asking for. Others of you have jumped to many conclusions, some of the same people that said Duke Lacrosse team was guilty, so on and so forth.
I'll wait to see it played out.
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This is not like this has been Goodell's only incident though. He has been incompetant for his entire tenure. This is just the icing on the cake. Hes become more maligned than Stern and Selig, which is very hard to do.
You still haven't answered my question yesterday, you said ESPN is trying to protect the NFL and you ignore the constant reporting against them...please square it.
As for Goodell's incompetence, fans generally think commissioners are incompetent, that's just how it goes. In terms of measurement of the game, the revenues,etc, etc, he has been anything remotely incompetent. Labor peace, television contracts through the roof, a drug police with the NFL PA for the first time, concussion settlement and research for the first time, so on and so forth.
Now, about ESPN protecting the NFL....
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That's actually not true.
If enough fans want him to go, sponsors will listen and the NFL will cave.
You want an example: Adrian Peterson.
It's just about $.
That decision would be made by the owners....which is what I said. The owners fire and hire the commissioner, ultimately they will decide his fate. Let the process play out....how many more retractions do you guys need in the press to say "wait a minute, maybe we should wait until all the information comes in". But hey, to each their own. Maybe Sultan can call you a liar, or rip on your mom or something....he's highly tactful like that.
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I still love that you actually want the NFL to break the law to see something they are not allowed to see....I guess a means to an end. I'm curious where you draw the line as the slippery slope on all of this is quite broad.
When you say did not seek out the truth, they interviewed the parties involved...is that part of seeking it out? I would say so...are you saying that is not part of the search? They were not allowed the video as they had no legal claim to it, but they should have broken the law to get it in their search for the truth....that appears to be what you are saying. Do you think your employer should also have the same rights? Just the NFL? Any employer should be able to illegally obtain information if they wish?
Goodell will go if the NFL wants him to go or if he lied, not because you think he should.
Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?
Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.
So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.
EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.
Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl
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My dad is dead, died when I was in my 20's He was a scientist, didn't doubt the moon landing, but as a scientist he wanted real facts, not conjecture. That's what I'm asking for. Others of you have jumped to many conclusions, some of the same people that said Duke Lacrosse team was guilty, so on and so forth.
I'll wait to see it played out.
"My dad loved Neil Armstrong. He worked with him a number of times. Good guy."
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If Buzz was the NFL commissioner, Chico's tune would be different.
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Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?
Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.
So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.
EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.
Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl
Ray Rice's attorney had they tape and could have turned it over to the NFL if they had asked. Perhaps they did and were denied but I would sure as hell say that.
Dish, I think ultimately you articulately this correctly and succinctly: The NFL is either lying about what they knew when or they willfully ignored the situation because they didn't want to know. In both outcomes the league in general and Goodell in particular should be in for a lot of trouble.
Chicos, is there a 3rd alternative I'm missing here? I'd like a clear, concise, logical (almost....scientific) explanation as to a 3rd theory as to how we got here that does not bathe the NFL and Goodell in guilt?
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Are you serious? I mean that, are you serious here?
Break the law??? By that logic, THE LAW broke the law here. Number of people who then saw the video before Goodell and the powers that be in the NFL...too many to count. TMZ, employees at the casino, NUMEROUS NFL PLAYERS WHO HAD THE VIDEO ON THEIR PHONES...get off your high horse already. So the NFL is just supposed to say "ehh, we're going to just let this one play out, BUT, we're pretty sure something bad PROBABLY happened here, so you get 2 games Ray Rice, but we do NOT want to see the video...we might get in trouble with the law." Mind you, this is an organization with former FBI and Secret Service staff employed.
So Ray Rice, allegedly, told Goodell "I beat the living $hit out of my wife, I round housed hooked her so hard, she immediately hit the floor, then I dragged her a$$ out of the elevator". Because remember, they interviewed the parties involved and it has been reported that Rice told Goodell exactly what happened.
EVEN THOUGH NUMEROUS OTHER PARTIES HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO, Goodell at this point, according to Chicos, says "ehh, we don't really want to break the law at this point". So Goodell heard this and deemed 2 games was fair...got it, good call Chicos.
Now here's the best part...the NFL lawfully could have gotten access to the video in about 2 minutes. Curious why you keep wrongly saying they would have been breaking the law. The case was adjudicated FOR MONTHS.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...already in progressl
Yes, actually a number of people did break the law here, including the law itself. So yes, I'm dead serious. When your employer, or the NFL in this case, is not allowed to have access to certain information, you want them to break the law to acquire it. I just want to make sure you're good with that. Then I have a few follow-up questions for you in terms of where it stops and what rights the individual has as it tries to square with due process....thanks....I'll hang up and listen.
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Here's 3 real facts for you...
-Ray Rice beat the hell out of his wife (watch whatever video you want...or don't...)
-Ray Rice told Roger Goodell exactly that
-Goodell responded by giving Ray Rice a 2 game suspension
Goodell should be fired for that alone.
By the way, don't forget the NFL goes pink starting with this Thursday night's game!
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Yes, actually a number of people did break the law here, including the law itself. So yes, I'm dead serious. When your employer, or the NFL in this case, is not allowed to have access to certain information, you want them to break the law to acquire it. I just want to make sure you're good with that. Then I have a few follow-up questions for you in terms of where it stops and what rights the individual has as it tries to square with due process....thanks....I'll hang up and listen.
So is there a statue of limitations that only exists in your world where when a case is adjudicated, do you have to wait X number of months to view (at that point) a privately held video that the law at that point has ZERO room to enforce upon who does view it? I'm curious on that one. Is it a month? 3 months? A year?
Sorry, I have to run. The tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny are coming over. We were going to watch a snuff film together, but don't want to break any laws.
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Chicos, is there a 3rd alternative I'm missing here? I'd like a clear, concise, logical (almost....scientific) explanation as to a 3rd theory as to how we got here that does not bathe the NFL and Goodell in guilt?
Define guilt? I've offered a logical alternative....did it happen this way, who knows. Here goes:
They saw the video of what happened outside the elevator.
They interviewed the parties involved who both claimed to be the problem (drinking, she attacked him, he attacked her, etc, etc)
They waited to see what law enforcement and the criminal system did (which was put him in a probationary program)
They issued a suspension
They didn't see the inside video despite asking for it through official channels, and were denied.
After seeing the inside video, they took much stronger action.
What you guys keep coming down on is the NFL "should have known" the contents of the elevator video. I agree, they should. Where I disagree with others here is how does one go about obtaining it? There is due process in this country, but what some of you are saying is the hell with it, anyway possible you must get that video, even if legally you are not allowed to have it. What am I missing, because I think that nails exactly what some of you are saying.
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Here's 3 real facts for you...
-Ray Rice beat the hell out of his wife (watch whatever video you want...or don't...)
-Ray Rice told Roger Goodell exactly that
-Goodell responded by giving Ray Rice a 2 game suspension
Goodell should be fired for that alone.
By the way, don't forget the NFL goes pink starting with this Thursday night's game!
You're not watching the games anyway....you've taken the stand.
You know what Ray Rice told Roger Goodell? Say can you tell us what he said...provide the transcript? Ray Rice his is fiance, a heinous act, but Ray Rice and his soon to be wife said she was attacking him, spit on him, hit him. That he used self defense. Was it true, how do you know without seeing the video....which they asked for....which the were legally denied....which you want them to break the law to obtain. What other laws would you like employers to break?
Beat the hell out of his wife? I have a different definition of beat, it usually means repeatedly dealing blows. Since so many people here love the dictionary... "a punishment or assault in which the victim is hit repeatedly."
The video I saw was terrible, he punched her and knocked her out. Horrible, terrible, but the video painted that picture much differently than the reported word that people had access to earlier. It's why everyone got up in arms....AFTER the video came out. The video changed everything.
James Foley was beheaded, we all know that. It is horrible to read. Would watching the video make it much worse? You bet it does, the video changes everything.
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Define guilt? I've offered a logical alternative....did it happen this way, who knows. Here goes:
They saw the video of what happened outside the elevator.
They interviewed the parties involved who both claimed to be the problem (drinking, she attacked him, he attacked her, etc, etc)
They waited to see what law enforcement and the criminal system did (which was put him in a probationary program)
Ray Rice told them what happened in the elevator, which was at a minimum that he hit his fiance and as a result(in some manner) she became unconscious)
They issued a suspension
They didn't see the inside video despite asking for it through official channels, and were denied.
After seeing the inside video, they took much stronger action.
What you guys keep coming down on is the NFL "should have known" the contents of the elevator video. I agree, they should. Where I disagree with others here is how does one go about obtaining it? There is due process in this country, but what some of you are saying is the hell with it, anyway possible you must get that video, even if legally you are not allowed to have it. What am I missing, because I think that nails exactly what some of you are saying.
What I am saying is, even if you accept everything the NFL says at face value....they are guilty as hell of poor judgement and a willingness to accept serious domestic violence as less significant then smoking pot or taking PEDs. That is the best case scenario. On that alone Goodell should be on the hot seat.
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You're not watching the games anyway....you've taken the stand.
You know what Ray Rice told Roger Goodell? Say can you tell us what he said...provide the transcript? Ray Rice his is fiance, a heinous act, but Ray Rice and his soon to be wife said she was attacking him, spit on him, hit him. That he used self defense. Was it true, how do you know without seeing the video....which they asked for....which the were legally denied....which you want them to break the law to obtain. What other laws would you like employers to break?
Beat the hell out of his wife? I have a different definition of beat, it usually means repeatedly dealing blows. Since so many people here love the dictionary... "a punishment or assault in which the victim is hit repeatedly."
The video I saw was terrible, he punched her and knocked her out. Horrible, terrible, but the video painted that picture much differently than the reported word that people had access to earlier. It's why everyone got up in arms....AFTER the video came out. The video changed everything.
James Foley was beheaded, we all know that. It is horrible to read. Would watching the video make it much worse? You bet it does, the video changes everything.
Go back and look at twitter.....people were up in arms about the suspension prior to the elevator video....once the second video came out, ESPN and other media outlets couldn't white wash it anymore.
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Yes, actually a number of people did break the law here, including the law itself. So yes, I'm dead serious. When your employer, or the NFL in this case, is not allowed to have access to certain information, you want them to break the law to acquire it. I just want to make sure you're good with that. Then I have a few follow-up questions for you in terms of where it stops and what rights the individual has as it tries to square with due process....thanks....I'll hang up and listen.
I will echo Sultan and call you out as lying.
If Roger wanted the video, all he had to do is call the casino and ask for it.you know this and also know that it is not illegal -yet continue to repeat the lie. Since you are not stupid, there can be only one other conclusion.
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nm
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If a certain poster can't say RR beat the hell out of his fiance, honestly y'all, how can you expect this certain poster to look at anything objectively. Just stop, live those minutes you would have typed a response to the fullest. Smile, laugh, play, do anything. I am done.
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So is there a statue of limitations that only exists in your world where when a case is adjudicated, do you have to wait X number of months to view (at that point) a privately held video that the law at that point has ZERO room to enforce upon who does view it? I'm curious on that one. Is it a month? 3 months? A year?
Sorry, I have to run. The tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny are coming over. We were going to watch a snuff film together, but don't want to break any laws.
Again, they asked for the video and were told no by law enforcement. They had no legal right to it. You haven't answered my question still....do you think it is ok for the NFL, or your employer, to obtain such pieces of information when they are lawfully not entitled to it? His lawyer said no to the request. Law enforcement said no to the request. It appears you believe the NFL and any employer should go outside of legal means to garner information. If I have represented you incorrectly, please clarify for me.
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What I am saying is, even if you accept everything the NFL says at face value....they are guilty as hell of poor judgement and a willingness to accept serious domestic violence as less significant then smoking pot or taking PEDs. That is the best case scenario. On that alone Goodell should be on the hot seat.
That's a fair point, and probably why a few weeks ago he said he blew it and changed the NFL policy moving forward on domestic violence.
Though I don't agree with you that it is the best case scenario, because I continue to believe the video changes everything and if they didn't see the video, that matters in my opinion. I also don't support an entity illegally obtaining evidence, but it seems some people here do. That's a very slippery slope IMO.
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If a certain poster can't say RR beat the hell out of his fiance, honestly y'all, how can you expect this certain poster to look at anything objectively. Just stop, live those minutes you would have typed a response to the fullest. Smile, laugh, play, do anything. I am done.
Oh my...I'd invite you to read what I actually said, which was 100% truthful. It was horrible, terrible, awful, etc, etc, etc.... he punched her, knocked her out, etc. I merely questioned his word choice. To beat the hell out of someone is repeatedly to strike them. Unless there is another video, that's not what happened. He struck her with a vicious blow, he did not beat the hell out of her. Horrific, appalling, etc, etc, but you don't get to change the meaning of beat. Sorry Reinko, that's accurate and you know it. No more than you would say a guy going up to someone else and sucker punching him or cold cocking him with one punch was "beating the hell" out of the dude. It isn't, and you know it. Doesn't make it any less vicious, but it isn't the same thing. LA cops "beat" Rodney King.
beat
bēt/
verb
verb: beat; 3rd person present: beats; past tense: beat; gerund or present participle: beating; past participle: beaten
1.strike (a person or an animal) repeatedly and violently so as to hurt or injure them, usually with an implement such as a club or whip.
"a woman whose husband would frequently beat her after becoming drunk
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So anyway...
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So anyway...
Bears/Packers. Very quiet from both camps. Both are worried about losing.
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Bears/Packers. Very quiet from both camps. Both are worried about losing.
I have no clue what to make of the Bears, I think you hit the nail on the head here though.
I think the Pack might be an average team. But, Rodgers owns the Bears, and Capers typically brings his best to own Cutler.
Another Cutler loss to Green Bay...if he can't beat Green Bay now, then when?
If the Pack go to 1-3, with 2 division losses, could they fight back or would the wheels potentially fall off?
As a Bears fan, I just picture Jordy running crossing routes all afternoon, posting a 9-145-1 line this Sunday.
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So anyway...
...breaking the law is a means to an end....I support my employer doing it to me and hope all employers do it.....
;)
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Yes, actually a number of people did break the law here, including the law itself. So yes, I'm dead serious. When your employer, or the NFL in this case, is not allowed to have access to certain information, you want them to break the law to acquire it. I just want to make sure you're good with that. Then I have a few follow-up questions for you in terms of where it stops and what rights the individual has as it tries to square with due process....thanks....I'll hang up and listen.
Chico's I've read numerous articles indicating that if anyone provided the tape to the NFL that had access to it, that it would not have been remotely in violation of the law.
That the casino and the employees freely had the right to provide it to others (maybe they would be fired, but not against the law).
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I have no clue what to make of the Bears, I think you hit the nail on the head here though.
I think the Pack might be an average team. But, Rodgers owns the Bears, and Capers typically brings his best to own Cutler.
Another Cutler loss to Green Bay...if he can't beat Green Bay now, then when?
If the Pack go to 1-3, with 2 division losses, could they fight back or would the wheels potentially fall off?
As a Bears fan, I just picture Jordy running crossing routes all afternoon, posting a 9-145-1 line this Sunday.
It's too bad the Packers don't run crossing routes anymore. If they did they might be a lot more than an average team.
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Should be a good game. I went home this weekend to avoid getting into conflict with packers fans. Just out of curiosity I looked up ticket prices on stub hub just to see if I could snag one and not a single ticket was under $400.
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Chico's I've read numerous articles indicating that if anyone provided the tape to the NFL that had access to it, that it would not have been remotely in violation of the law.
That the casino and the employees freely had the right to provide it to others (maybe they would be fired, but not against the law).
Chicos KNOWS this. It is public knowledge.
He keeps repeating the lie and then acts the victim when called a liar.
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I don't think either team is any good. That said, I expect the packers to win.
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It begins...
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How much did the Bears pay the refs to get that call? That's as bad of a call as I've seen this year.
Not that it would've mattered, the Packers would've sat back in coverage on 3rd and 14 and AJ Hawk would've watched Bennet cross over the middle while Hawk stays square to the line of scrimmage and Bennet would've picked up 15 yards for a first down.
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Well, that was a quick answer. Love the playcalling by McCarthy. Good things happen when you use the most dangerous offensive player in the NFL.
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Pack run defense leaving plenty to be desired.
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Nice toss Jay
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Refs are making some...interesting...calls both ways.
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Zebras having a rough afternoon.
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THAT is your call on 3rd and 5 while Rodgers is SHREDDING the defense? Are you kidding me?!
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THAT is your call on 3rd and 5 while Rodgers is SHREDDING the defense? Are you kidding me?!
I believe they would have gone for it on 4th, if not for the penalty.
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I believe they would have gone for it on 4th, if not for the penalty.
You're probably right. Still absolutely hate that play call. I understand running the ball at times. But on 3rd and 5 why are you running east to west? Eddie Lacy needs to go north to south.
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Nice play call and design.
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But not a smart time to try an onside kick. Why not save it to start the 2nd half? Short field with a low clock now.
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But not a smart time to try an onside kick. Why not save it to start the 2nd half? Short field with a low clock now.
Totally disagree, perfect time in game to try it. Packers totally caught offguard. Only cost approx 19 yds of field position.
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Tough catch by Cobb, good adjustment. No punts yet.
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Haha Jay throwing the ball short of the end zone with 9 seconds and no timeouts. Awesome.
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If the Bears don't win this game, there's going to be some priceless meatball talk radio tomorrow about the refs.
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Ball crossed the plane.
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Probably was a TD, but impossible to overturn that call.
Funny because if Aikman/Buck were on the call, there would have been more camera angles.
Zero defense being played. Neither of these teams is going anywhere in January. Lions best looking team in division so far today.
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Probably was a TD, but impossible to overturn that call.
Funny because if Aikman/Buck were on the call, there would have been more camera angles.
Zero defense being played. Neither of these teams is going anywhere in January. Lions best looking team in division so far today.
Was bobbling the ball at the time that he reached it out anyways. But the point is you absolutely cannot leave any doubt whatsoever at that point. Find someone standing in the end zone or find the 9th row of seats. Nothing in between. 7 or 3 points are the only options at that time. Jay found 0.
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Was bobbling the ball at the time that he reached it out anyways. But the point is you absolutely cannot leave any doubt whatsoever at that point. Find someone standing in the end zone or find the 9th row of seats. Nothing in between. 7 or 3 points are the only options at that time. Jay found 0.
Eh, not on Jay. Martellus, two yards out is likely a TD everytime, dude's a beast.
It crossed the plane, can't overturn it. The bobble was merely a reassurance of the decision.
Does the sideline play camera seem to suck for everyone else too? Not as clear as the other games on today.
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Was bobbling the ball at the time that he reached it out anyways. But the point is you absolutely cannot leave any doubt whatsoever at that point. Find someone standing in the end zone or find the 9th row of seats. Nothing in between. 7 or 3 points are the only options at that time. Jay found 0.
I know you hate Cutler, but that's equally, if not more, on Bennett there.
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Chico's I've read numerous articles indicating that if anyone provided the tape to the NFL that had access to it, that it would not have been remotely in violation of the law.
That the casino and the employees freely had the right to provide it to others (maybe they would be fired, but not against the law).
Please provide those articles....
There have been countless legal opinions that they absolutely could not get them, because they were part of a criminal investigation and could lead to a civil case down the road.
Let me ask you the most obvious one....if it was legal for the NFL to obtain from law enforcement, then why is the supposed tape that was sent from law enforcement sent anonymously and the person sending it used a disposable phone? If it's legal, why was that action taken?
Here's why the videos were not given, because it is illegal to do so. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/roger-goodell-memo/
TMZ got them because the casino closed, they went and paid for them from the casino. As TMZ even states, "I think what happened was the casino closed. And when the casino closed, I think there were a lot of employees who just said, you know what: 'We want to do the right thing.' And ultimately we ended up getting this video because when you look at the video, clearly you see the NFL did not do the right thing," Levin said of the second video. "And I think at a point somebody said that the gain here is worse than the risk, in terms of doing what's right."
The risk being, it is illegal....and they made a few bucks off it.
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I know it was called back but how did Rodgers throw the ball that far? That makes absolutely no sense.
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There he is!
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If Green Bay wins, their o-line deserves game balls. Williams too for jumping the slant, good read by him.
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Calling that the game.
Can we get someone to take care of the field so players aren't slipping all over the place? Chicago park district is a joke.
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If Green Bay wins, their o-line deserves game balls. Williams too for jumping the slant, good read by him.
Yup. O line looks great. Not even Mike McCarthy can stop Rodgers when the line is protecting him like this.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
Same old Jay.
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The real problem with the picks and not scoring at the end of the half is that the Bears basically have to abandon their run game now.
They've run it 30 times for an absurd 6.1 per carry.
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The real problem with the picks and not scoring at the end of the half is that the Bears basically have to abandon their run game now.
They've run it 30 times for an absurd 6.1 per carry.
Yup. Just changes your entire game and it's a lot easier to defend you when you're 1 dimensional.
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It doesn't matter in the least now, but gift 4 points there.
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It doesn't matter in the least now, but gift 4 points there.
Yup. If the nail wasn't in the coffin, it is now.
And now Jay has to put the ball in the air even more desperately. Could we see a 3rd pick? Maybe.
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I just don't understand why the offense has been so brutal. Put the ball in Rodgers's hands and give him some quick hit options. Good things happen. Finally a well called game by McCarthy and we put up 38 in 3 quarters.
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Yup. If the nail wasn't in the coffin, it is now.
And now Jay has to put the ball in the air even more desperately. Could we see a 3rd pick? Maybe.
Almost.
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I just don't understand why the offense has been so brutal. Put the ball in Rodgers's hands and give him some quick hit options. Good things happen. Finally a well called game by McCarthy and we put up 38 in 3 quarters.
Bears defense is masking some of Pack's problems.
-Non existant run game. Lacy's a step slower this year, not hitting the hole as quick.
-Over reliance on Nelson. Rodgers doesn't trust his other guys, even Cobb hasn't gotten the looks he used to.
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Lacy's looked a bit better today, but still slow. I feel like he's going to find it again, but is running conservative.
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Lacy's looked a bit better today, but still slow. I feel like he's going to find it again, but is running conservative.
Bears defense is masking some of Pack's problems.
-Non existant run game. Lacy's a step slower this year, not hitting the hole as quick.
-Over reliance on Nelson. Rodgers doesn't trust his other guys, even Cobb hasn't gotten the looks he used to.
I agree with both of these. I just think the play calling has limited the production of anyone other than Jordy. Up until this week we ran very few quick hitting passes. Rodgers and the receivers have always been insanely good at the quick slants and those have been entirely non-existent until today, and now you see Adams, Cobb, and Rodgers having success. I don't know where those plays have been.
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Cobb says "See ya!" That was dirty. Love Richard Rogers running down field and finishing the play with a big block even in a route.
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That Lacy run where he just picked up 7 yds...last year that was a 20 yd run. He's indecisive at times, too much dancing.
I think Starks should get some more carries.
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I forgot Jimmy Clausen is on the Bears. They have to have the 2 most hateable QBs in the NFL. Phillip Rivers and Collin Kaepernik give them a run for their money.
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I forgot Jimmy Clausen is on the Bears. They have to have the 2 most hateable QBs in the NFL. Phillip Rivers and Collin Kaepernik give them a run for their money.
Is Clausen even relevant enough to be hateable?
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As bad as the Packer defense played, Jay can always be counted on to choke on it.
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Clausen is hateable? Total non-descript back up QB.
Yikes.
Did David Fales run over your dog?
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496 yds of offense, over 200 rushing, and only 17 points to show for it.
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(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/319264/jimmy-clausen.jpg)
Hah. This guy isn't hatable? I guess he looks like a totally cool guy.
The definition of a kid who went to Notre Dame.
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(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/319264/jimmy-clausen.jpg)
Hah. This guy isn't hatable? I guess he looks like a totally cool guy.
The definition of a kid who went to Notre Dame.
Whatever gets you through the day I guess. More like indifference.
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Whatever gets you through the day I guess. More like indifference.
Haha. So you just hate good QBs or what? I love Peyton Manning and he's outstanding. Personality is what makes a player, person, etc. hatable to me.
Hated him when he was at Notre Dame, continue to hate him now, will hate him when he's playing in the Canadian Football League next year. Being a douche doesn't change based on how good or bad you are at football.
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(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/319264/jimmy-clausen.jpg)
Hah. This guy isn't hatable? I guess he looks like a totally cool guy.
The definition of a kid who went to Notre Dame.
Absolutely no debate. No one can put a hat on that guy…hairs too spiky.
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Haha. So you just hate good QBs or what? I love Peyton Manning and he's outstanding. Personality is what makes a player, person, etc. hatable to me.
Hated him when he was at Notre Dame, continue to hate him now, will hate him when he's playing in the Canadian Football League next year. Being a douche doesn't change based on how good or bad you are at football.
The next thought or feeling I have on Clausen will be my first.
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Nm
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Thank you again, Jay.
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Eagles 50 yds offense, 21 pts. Bears 496 yds offense, 17 points.
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Wow. Bears did not call a single blitz today. Why, especially in the second half, would you not try something to hurry rodgers? He had all the time he wanted.
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Cutler was far from terrible today. The first INT was his fault. The second? I guess we will have to see because that was obviously a misread.
Rodgers was incredible today. Six incompletions. At least two dropped balls. The Packers only faced 8 third downs all day.
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Cutler was far from terrible today. The first INT was his fault. The second? I guess we will have to see because that was obviously a misread.
Rodgers was incredible today. Six incompletions. At least two dropped balls. The Packers only faced 8 third downs all day.
The problem is that he threw the interception while they were driving and threatening to tie the game. The way Rodgers and the Packers offense were playing you can't afford that.
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Williams jumped the route on the first pick. Looked like Bears were trying to run either a rub or pick play on the slant. Morgan didn't really do much to sell it, ton of credit to Williams holding his ground. Cutler probably should have read it off there.
Second pick...who the heck knows who was wrong between Marshall and Cutler.
Cutler was really good in the first half. Since Cutler is Cutler, most Pack fans will say "thanks Jay" and most meatball Bears fans will pin this game on Cutler. Fact is the offense put up nearly 500 yards.
Lack of a pass rush, not being able to get off the field on third down...that 's what cost the Bears today.
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The problem is that he threw the interception while they were driving and threatening to tie the game. The way Rodgers and the Packers offense were playing you can't afford that.
GB has Rodgers - Chicago has Cutler. Game over.
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No punts from either team? Only happened once before in the history of the NFL.
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Williams jumped the route on the first pick. Looked like Bears were trying to run either a rub or pick play on the slant. Morgan didn't really do much to sell it, ton of credit to Williams holding his ground. Cutler probably should have read it off there.
Second pick...who the heck knows who was wrong between Marshall and Cutler.
Cutler was really good in the first half. Since Cutler is Cutler, most Pack fans will say "thanks Jay" and most meatball Bears fans will pin this game on Cutler. Fact is the offense put up nearly 500 yards.
Lack of a pass rush, not being able to get off the field on third down...that 's what cost the Bears today.
It's never Jay's fault. ;D ;D ;D
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It's never Jay's fault. ;D ;D ;D
I'm far from a Cutler apologist, but it's tough to blame it all on him when your offense puts up ridiculous numbers.
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No punts from either team? Only happened once before in the history of the NFL.
Wow, that's impressive.
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I'm far from a Cutler apologist, but it's tough to blame it all on him when your offense puts up ridiculous numbers.
Maybe true. But I guess I've heard all offseason long about how the Bears offensive weapons at every position other than quarterback are so much better than the Packers. So when the Packers come in and win a game at Solider Field by 21 points then I guess I just figure the difference in quarterbacks is just that big (not saying anybody ever said Cutler is close to Rodgers, just saying if the Bears have the better offense if you give them the same quarterback then Rodgers must be on a different planet than Cutler, and then some "blame" has to fall on Cutler).
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Maybe true. But I guess I've heard all offseason long about how the Bears offensive weapons at every position other than quarterback are so much better than the Packers. So when the Packers come in and win a game at Solider Field by 21 points then I guess I just figure the difference in quarterbacks is just that big (not saying anybody ever said Cutler is close to Rodgers, just saying if the Bears have the better offense if you give them the same quarterback then Rodgers must be on a different planet than Cutler, and then some "blame" has to fall on Cutler).
You keep singing this tune...what imaginary TV/radio/internet are you using?
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You keep singing this tune...what imaginary TV/radio/internet are you using?
Not sure what this means. I was imagining that I have been hearing the Bears offensive weapons are better than the Packers?
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Of course Rodgers is on a different planet then Cutler is. When you give him time like that, he is nearly impossible to beat.
But that doesn't mean Cutler is a bad quarterback. The Bears offense was very impressive for most of the game. I mean they never punted. They had a drive ended by the goofy play at the half. Two by INTs. And one late in the game on downs.
The Packers still have issues. That defense was terrible for most of the game.
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Not sure what this means. I was imagining that I have been hearing the Bears offensive weapons are better than the Packers?
Yes. Who did you hear this from "all offseason"? Names please.
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For all the Cutler lovers/defenders out there, he better produce some results this season. If he can't win with the talent around him this year, he will never win anything significant. All the Bears lovers say Marshall is better than Jordy and that Marshall and Jeffreys is better than Jordy and Cobb. Bennett is clearly more proven than any tight end on the Packers roster, and Forte is said to be a top 4 running back in the league. So if I'm hearing all of this correctly, then the Bears have the better wide receiving group with Holmes in the fold now, the better first tight end, and the better running back. Given all of that, you would think it would be NFC North Title or bust, plus a legitimate chance to win the Super Bowl this year, correct?
Yup, that all sounds about right Wade. Thanks for agreeing. Add a much improved defense and you attempt at snide commentary is spot on.
I would agree that they have more talent around Cutler on offense than Rodgers has around him, but there are still MAJOR questions on defense. This isn't college where you can outshoot teams like Baylor or Texas Tech and win games 55-48.
Cutler should put up numbers with perhaps the best WR tandem in football. Forte is as good catching passes out of the backfield as anyone, although I think Bennett is at best a very slightly above avg TE. I'm not sure why a street FA just signed to camp, who has at best a 40% chance of making the final roster, is brought up in this argument. If Homles is healthy and his head is in the right place, that's fine, but counting on anything from him long term is absurd.
Bears expectations are to fight for a playoff spot (as they should be). No one should be talking Super Bowl. They're repairing a historically all time bad defense, their special teams right now are awful. As for Cutler, he needs to produce. It's year 2 under Trestman (which should benefit him), he's in great shape, and has weapons to do damage. If he does produce, the Bears should contend. If he doesn't, then the Bears have zero shot. It's fairly simple.
(I think you were wrong about Bennet here. He is a beast. Certainly better than anyone the Packers can throw out there at TE.)
Bears fans are the only ones talking about the talent at the skill positions. There are articles out there from analysts saying the bears feature the best WR duo in the league. So let's not paint it as coming just from a bunch if biased meatballs.
Oh I know.
The post made no sense from the get go. If wades doesn't feel that Marshall, Jeffrey, Forte are any good as a skill position group, I don't know how to educate against it.
Do I need to keep going or...?
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Either your poor at comprehension or not good at reading, but you just argued my point for me, which is odd.
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Of course Rodgers is on a different planet then Cutler is. When you give him time like that, he is nearly impossible to beat.
But that doesn't mean Cutler is a bad quarterback. The Bears offense was very impressive for most of the game. I mean they never punted. They had a drive ended by the goofy play at the half. Two by INTs. And one late in the game on downs.
The Packers still have issues. That defense was terrible for most of the game.
As a Cutler hater, I don't argue that he is bad. My argument, of which there is a mountain of evidence is that he is not a winner. Never has been. Don't expect he ever will be.
As a Packer fan, I am overjoyed that Jay is a Bear.
Jay looks great every game. Jay also looks terrible in almost every game. Same old song and dance from Jay today we have seen over and over. I think it is now 20 interceptions against GB just since he has been a Bear.
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No punts from either team? Only happened once before in the history of the NFL.
Who needs a punter when you can just have Cutler throw the ball to the other team.
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No pass rush was far and away the biggest issue for today's game. Gave Rodgers all day and he took advantage of it. Well see. Glad we get Carolina and Miami in 2 of the next 3 games. Hopefully the bears can go 4-3 before the bye. Not having Jared Allen made a much bigger difference than anyone could have anyicipated. May not have any sacks this year but he pushes the line.
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Either your poor at comprehension or not good at reading, but you just argued my point for me, which is odd.
You are completely contradicting yourself then. If the Bears have the better offensive weapons outside of QB, and the Packers come into Soldier Field and win by 21, then the gap in quarterback play is ginormous. If that is the case, how can you say it's hard to blame Jay? You're saying the only weaker part of the Bears offense is quarterback (so, Jay) but you're saying a lot of blame does not fall on Jay. So the other skill position players for the Packers are better than the Bears then?
What you've essentially said is that the Packers (and Bears) defense stinks and will prevent them from doing anything. So one would think both teams would have no problem scoring, and if the Bears have the better skill position players then what make the 21 point gap if we can't put a lot of blame on Jay?
Does putting blame on Jay mean he played a bad game? Not necessarily. But what's the difference between the 2 teams? I think you'd be happy to agree it's the quarterbacks, since you think the Bears skill positions are better and both defenses stink. So the blame (or difference in the 21 point rout) would fall on the QBs.
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No pass rush was far and away the biggest issue for today's game. Gave Rodgers all day and he took advantage of it. Well see. Glad we get Carolina and Miami in 2 of the next 3 games. Hopefully the bears can go 4-3 before the bye. Not having Jared Allen made a much bigger difference than anyone could have anyicipated. May not have any sacks this year but he pushes the line.
From the pieces I've watched of the Bears he is just as nonexistent as anybody else on the Bears D-Line. Much like Peppers on the Packers.
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As a Cutler hater, I don't argue that he is bad. My argument, of which there is a mountain of evidence is that he is not a winner. Never has been. Don't expect he ever will be.
I really don't know what being "a winner" means outside of performance.
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Teddy Bridgewater, after having a real good debut, was carted off with an ankle injury on a two point conversion. Christian Ponder is the back up and perhaps might have to start on Thursday.
How very Vikings.
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Wades...my head hurts man.
You said repeatedly " I've heard all offseason long about how the Bears offensive weapons at every position other than quarterback are so much better than the Packers"
Mind you, this was an argument you started. I'm still waiting to hear names of people you heard this from, because you referenced AFTER the fact people arguing against YOUR argument. Also mind you, you referenced those arguments from mid August on, which isn't even the offseason.
Between Marshall, Jeffrey, Nelson, Cobb, there is one first team All Pro season, belonging to Marshall in 2012.
This just in...Marshall/Jeffrey and Nelson/Cobb...all good players! If you want to argue Welker/Thomas were better than Jeffrey/Marshall last season, fine, but statistically they were arguably the best in football last season. If you think Jeffrey and Marshall suck or aren't any good, then whatever.
You act football stupid, when a lot of time you make sound arguments and points,I know you're not football stupid. Rodgers is THE BEST QB in the game. I've said all along the Pack have better talent on their o-line and it showed today. The best QB in football, the most accurate QB in football too...with time to throw, and great receivers...trouble, big trouble for a team with a porous pass defense.
I never ever knocked the Pack skill position players. Cobb/Nelson are in the conversation for the best tandem in football.
Enjoy having the best QB in football. Packers have been blessed to have an unprecedented run in the league of amazing QB play. Pack is going to contend every year until Rodgers retires. That's essentially going to be 20 plus years of having a chance, which is an astounding testament to the Packers.
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No pass rush was far and away the biggest issue for today's game. Gave Rodgers all day and he took advantage of it. Well see. Glad we get Carolina and Miami in 2 of the next 3 games. Hopefully the bears can go 4-3 before the bye. Not having Jared Allen made a much bigger difference than anyone could have anyicipated. May not have any sacks this year but he pushes the line.
GB also had no pass rush. Don't. Need one with Jay.
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GB also had no pass rush. Don't. Need one with Jay.
Here's the problem though...you do eventually need one.
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GB also had no pass rush. Don't. Need one with Jay.
Good original point!
The defense literally did not force a single punt. But this loss is all on Cutler? Give me an f-ing break.
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Here's the problem though...you do eventually need one.
Packers pass rush is fine. The problem is the middle of the defense, nose tackle and middle linebackers. That's why they can't stop the run. It wasn't the bears passing game that hurt the packers today it was the running game that set up the pass. Both teams will be fine. Both playoff teams, I would give the edge to gb because of QB and better defense overall.
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Good original point!
The defense literally did not force a single punt. But this loss is all on Cutler? Give me an f-ing break.
Did you watch the 2nd half?
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Yes, but I don't think he is fully to blame for the second interception. Furthermore if the Bears actually play defense, they could have withstood the interceptions.
Really the lazy thing to do is to blame Cutler for that loss. Cutler played OK. The biggest problem for the Bears was the defense.
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Dallas is not good, at all. I think Niners read option the Bears into the ground next Sunday night and slap the Bears around all night.
You may be right.....or.....
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I guess my point is that at some point the excuses have to stop and it becomes time to put up or shut up. First it was the weapons around him weren't good enough. Then it was too many offensive coordinators to get any consistency. Now the defense sucks. I'm not saying Cutler is the one who has complained about these things or made these excuses. But Cutler has had 1 Playoff win in 8 years as a starter. Is that all on Cutler? Of course not. But at the same time it's not like he's playing for a franchise like the Jaguars or Raiders. The Broncos and Bears have had Playoff success prior to, and in the Broncos case, since Jay took over the starting QB job. If you pay a QB $125 million you better expect some success in the Playoffs. At least that's my opinion. Much like I have long said you cannot win when it matters in baseball if the only way you score is by the long ball (Brewers), I have long said you cannot win in the NFL with a QB who is reckless with the football. Jay has all the physical talent in the world, but he is incredibly reckless with the football and his footwork, especially when he feels like he has to make something happen, has always been horrible.
Maybe Jay is just unlucky and defensive backs only make miraculous reads like Tramon did today against Jay. And maybe for some reason Jay's wideouts can't seem to remember his play call from the time they leave the huddle to the time they run their route more than any other group of wideouts do. But at some point Jay has to be held accountable for turning the ball over inside the 30 yard line down by 7 points. Jay does this seemingly every time he plays the Packers at least. Maybe it's just against the Packers. I don't know.
I guess I'm just happy that my biggest frustration with my team's quarterback is that my team's quarterback is willing to lose yardage taking a sack in order to keep his completion percentage high.
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You may be right.....or.....
Any time you can get beat by a mediocre Niners team at home, and then beat teams with a combined record of 3-8, you have to be proud.
America's Team Baby! Playoff tickets already available (for real!).
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Any time you can get beat by a mediocre Niners team at home, and then beat teams with a combined record of 3-8, you have to be proud.
America's Team Baby! Playoff tickets already available (for real!).
No one is saying the Cowboys are great....but to say they are "not good, at all"....equally ridiculous.
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I guess my point is that at some point the excuses have to stop and it becomes time to put up or shut up. First it was the weapons around him weren't good enough. Then it was too many offensive coordinators to get any consistency. Now the defense sucks. I'm not saying Cutler is the one who has complained about these things or made these excuses. But Cutler has had 1 Playoff win in 8 years as a starter. Is that all on Cutler? Of course not. But at the same time it's not like he's playing for a franchise like the Jaguars or Raiders. The Broncos and Bears have had Playoff success prior to, and in the Broncos case, since Jay took over the starting QB job. If you pay a QB $125 million you better expect some success in the Playoffs. At least that's my opinion. Much like I have long said you cannot win when it matters in baseball if the only way you score is by the long ball (Brewers), I have long said you cannot win in the NFL with a QB who is reckless with the football. Jay has all the physical talent in the world, but he is incredibly reckless with the football and his footwork, especially when he feels like he has to make something happen, has always been horrible.
Maybe Jay is just unlucky and defensive backs only make miraculous reads like Tramon did today against Jay. And maybe for some reason Jay's wideouts can't seem to remember his play call from the time they leave the huddle to the time they run their route more than any other group of wideouts do. But at some point Jay has to be held accountable for turning the ball over inside the 30 yard line down by 7 points. Jay does this seemingly every time he plays the Packers at least. Maybe it's just against the Packers. I don't know.
I guess I'm just happy that my biggest frustration with my team's quarterback is that my team's quarterback is willing to lose yardage taking a sack in order to keep his completion percentage high.
No one can or really should argue any of this. I said a few weeks ago...Cutler's not going to be a Super Bowl winning QB, he just isn't. He has a ton of skill, but there's plenty of body of work to suggest that when you look back on his career, it's going to be frustrating to look back on.
Guy makes some absolutely ridiculous throws, and then makes some ridiculous throws. Over the course of four games this season, I've come to realize he hates playing at Soldier Field. I'd have to look up his record/stats, but my eye test shows me he seems much better on the road.
I don't think he's been an All Pro by any means this year, but coming in to today, I believe he led the NFC in TD passes, and hadn't thrown a pick in 2 games. Bears were something like 9 of 11 in the red zone on scoring TD's this season coming into today as well.
He threw 2 picks today, and they were costly, and no matter what happened, the stats show "INTS - 2". They had no hope as a team to recover, they weren't good enough as a team to do so.
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No one is saying the Cowboys are great....but to say they are "not good, at all"....equally ridiculous.
I love you Chicos, you're the best.
After Week 1, please enlighten me, humor me man...what were they good at? That's when the quote was said, court is your's bro.
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Jesus Christ, every thread Chicos?
Can you possibly just fight a couple people at a time and leave some Scoop for the rest of us to enjoy?
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Jesus Christ, every thread Chicos?
Can you possibly just fight a couple people at a time and leave some Scoop for the rest of us to enjoy?
Fight....come on? It was a little fun. Every thread? Please. I thought you said I was on ignore with you.
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I love you Chicos, you're the best.
After Week 1, please enlighten me, humor me man...what were they good at? That's when the quote was said, court is your's bro.
My bad Dish, thought you were prognosticating for the season that they weren't good...at all. Didn't realize you mean just for week one. My bad. :)
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Stepping back and looking long term through (for most teams) a quarter of the NFC and...
...who knows.
I'm pretty confident Seattle is good and far and away the best team in the conference.
No idea who the second best team is. I know AZ is 3-0, so I guess they are (?). Drew Stanton and a beat up defense...remarkable.
The Lions had a pretty impressive win today. They held court with the Bears/Packers by beating the Jets.
Packers/Falcons/Saints/Bears...all are semi similar, but I'd put those four teams in that order right now in my level of confidence.
Eagles/Cowboys...I want to trust the Eagles, but that's not the 2013 Eagles out there. Pokes could be paper lions or win that division and get a 2 seed.
People will rightfully think this is nuts, but don't sleep on the Vikes and Bucs just yet. Only reason I say the Bucs is their division stinks and maybe Mike Glennon provides a spark. I think the AD stuff affected the Vikes for a bit, but like the Bucs (and assuming healthy), maybe Bridgewater provides a spark?
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Stepping back and looking long term through (for most teams) a quarter of the NFC and...
...who knows.
I'm pretty confident Seattle is good and far and away the best team in the conference.
No idea who the second best team is. I know AZ is 3-0, so I guess they are (?). Drew Stanton and a beat up defense...remarkable.
The Lions had a pretty impressive win today. They held court with the Bears/Packers by beating the Jets.
Packers/Falcons/Saints/Bears...all are semi similar, but I'd put those four teams in that order right now in my level of confidence.
Eagles/Cowboys...I want to trust the Eagles, but that's not the 2013 Eagles out there. Pokes could be paper lions or win that division and get a 2 seed.
People will rightfully think this is nuts, but don't sleep on the Vikes and Bucs just yet. Only reason I say the Bucs is their division stinks and maybe Mike Glennon provides a spark. I think the AD stuff affected the Vikes for a bit, but like the Bucs (and assuming healthy), maybe Bridgewater provides a spark?
Fair.
I still will go with Seattle and 49ers in the NFC. Niners get guys back and will get better. Packers aren't far behind. Then it's a pile of teams like Bears, Cowboys, Giants, Falcons, etc. any given week they will look like world beaters and the next week like garbage. Eagles in that group. No real great teams right now anywhere, but the season is young. I would be surprised to see the Bucs do anything, but who knows.
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No one can or really should argue any of this. I said a few weeks ago...Cutler's not going to be a Super Bowl winning QB, he just isn't. He has a ton of skill, but there's plenty of body of work to suggest that when you look back on his career, it's going to be frustrating to look back on.
Guy makes some absolutely ridiculous throws, and then makes some ridiculous throws. Over the course of four games this season, I've come to realize he hates playing at Soldier Field. I'd have to look up his record/stats, but my eye test shows me he seems much better on the road.
I don't think he's been an All Pro by any means this year, but coming in to today, I believe he led the NFC in TD passes, and hadn't thrown a pick in 2 games. Bears were something like 9 of 11 in the red zone on scoring TD's this season coming into today as well.
He threw 2 picks today, and they were costly, and no matter what happened, the stats show "INTS - 2". They had no hope as a team to recover, they weren't good enough as a team to do so.
All fair points. I know it's too easy to just simply say "turnovers are the difference," but I guess you look at that and say Jay threw interceptions in weeks 1 and 4 and none in weeks 2 and 3. The Bears lost in weeks 2 and 3 and won in weeks 1 and 4. Win the turnover battle in the NFL and you have a very good chance of winning the game, regardless of who you are playing. That holds true for just about every team in the NFL.
Not to keep piling onto Jay, but I did not realize his struggles against the Packers have been this bad. 1-8 as the Bears starter (0-1 as the Broncos) with 12 TDs and 20 INTs (for the Bears - plus 1 TD and 0 INTs with the Broncos). Only 1 300 yard game.
As far as what I think I know about the NFC, well, I think I know the Seahawks are the best team and beyond that I think I know nothing. One week the Pack looks great, the next they look awful. One week the Bears look great, the next they look awful. One week the 9ers look great, the next they look awful. It's that way for about 10 teams in the NFC. Still a lot of football to be played, but I think the only really good team, and the only team I really fear as a Packers fan, in the NFC is the Seahawks.
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As a Packer fan, I also fear the Packers. That defense appears to be every bit the joke it was the past couple years.
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As a Packer fan, I also fear the Packers. That defense appears to be every bit the joke it was the past couple years.
Not as bad, but yes, still a joke.
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Bears defense is masking some of Pack's problems.
-Non existant run game. Lacy's a step slower this year, not hitting the hole as quick.
-Over reliance on Nelson. Rodgers doesn't trust his other guys, even Cobb hasn't gotten the looks he used to.
I think Lacy is running out of the shotgun a lot more right now so he isn't "started" when he gets the ball. I'm too lazy to prove it but I think they ran out of the I and pro-set a lot more last year.
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That's a fair point, and probably why a few weeks ago he said he blew it and changed the NFL policy moving forward on domestic violence.
Though I don't agree with you that it is the best case scenario, because I continue to believe the video changes everything and if they didn't see the video, that matters in my opinion. I also don't support an entity illegally obtaining evidence, but it seems some people here do. That's a very slippery slope IMO.
Your whole point here is moot if Ray Rice told him even the bare bones of what happened in the elevator. They had video of the them fighting going into the elevator and of him dragging her out. Ray Rice also had to explain what happened, and Goodell only said his story was inconsistent with the video. If Ray Rice lied, he would have said that, and so at least some of what Ray Rice said had to be true.
Based on all of that the video really doesn't mean anything. Yes it stirs up the emotions and is very stark, however as long as you are don't days of mental gymnastics the evidence at hand says the NFL placed no value on domestic violence, period.
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Goodell's bodyguard "allegedly" assaulted a NY Daily News photog.
You can't even make this stuff up any more.
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Does anyone want to win the AFC East?
7-9 may win it this year.
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Jamal Charles is single handedly saving my fantasy team.
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Hate to see people lose their jobs...but...for those of us that had 4:1 odds on Dennis Allen being first coach fired...
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Make sure your drafting Jarrett Boykin this year.
This move continues to pay dividends for you through the first 5 weeks of the season...
;)
2 receptions for 17 yards and a grand total of 1.7 points (non-PPR).
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This move continues to pay dividends for you through the first 5 weeks of the season...
;)
2 receptions for 17 yards and a grand total of 1.7 points (non-PPR).
Listen, you unnatural carnal knowledgeing fringe, if I throw a dog a bone, I don't want to know if it tastes good or not. You stop me again whilst I'm walking, and I'll cut your unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jacobs off.
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Listen, you unnatural carnal knowledgeing fringe, if I throw a dog a bone, I don't want to know if it tastes good or not. You stop me again whilst I'm walking, and I'll cut your unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jacobs off.
Hahahaha. Point taken.
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Listen, you unnatural carnal knowledgeing fringe, if I throw a dog a bone, I don't want to know if it tastes good or not. You stop me again whilst I'm walking, and I'll cut your unnatural carnal knowledgeing Jacobs off.
How's those sausages coming Charlie?
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How's those sausages coming Charlie?
Two minutes, Turkish.
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Pack offensive line playing fantastic so far. I'm really impressed with that group last 2 weeks.
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Pack offensive line playing fantastic so far. I'm really impressed with that group last 2 weeks.
Agreed. Making Eddie's life easy. And to add to that Eddie is finally looking to run guys over. Then again it's defensive backs by the point he's getting hit.
Defenders are finally flying to the ball for the Pack.
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Rodgers being Rodgers. Randle being Randle. Jordy being Jordy. This team is fun to watch when they are clicking.
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I HATE those NFL Shop commercials, with the most unloyal family ever. Makes zero sense.
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McCarthy pulling a Gary Anderson in handling his running backs tonight?
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You think Peppers ever thought he'd do a Lambeau Leap?
BeeJay, big things brewing in the Twin Cities.
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Ass kickin', aina?
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Ponder really sucks.
Thursday Night football...feel the snooze!
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BeeJay, where you at, Bro?
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I HATE those NFL Shop commercials, with the most unloyal family ever. Makes zero sense.
Yeah, I turned to my wife and said "I don't care who my kids marry and who their kids root for, I am only buying Packer gear for them."
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Thursday Night football...feel the snooze!
The final score disparity has been at least 20 every Thursday so far. Is it just the matchups? Maybe. But this is just awful football.
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I dunno. Kinda enjoyin' it, hey?
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Greg Jennin's still on the Minny roster?
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Ponder really sucks.
Thursday Night football...feel the snooze!
Vikings look awful. Packers playing ok, but they could be up by 50 right now.
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I HATE those NFL Shop commercials, with the most unloyal family ever. Makes zero sense.
+1
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Yeah, I turned to my wife and said "I don't care who my kids marry and who their kids root for, I am only buying Packer gear for them."
Poor upbringing of the children, very fickle convictions.
Marriage? Relocation? A sandwich? Not very good reasons to change your allegiance, that's on the lazy ass mother and (probably) drunken father.
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So if I breakdown this commercial right...
- The Viking kid (boy) marries an Eagles fan and they randomly move to Cincy, and to spite their parents (who would have zero reason to watch Bengal games) become Bengal fans.
Makes sense.
-The daughter, clearly a Vikes fan from her phone case, randomly meets Emmitt Smith, takes a selfie, and now she ditches the Vikes to be a Pokes fan?
Right...
-The teenage boy is apparently disowned, and is eating Roethlis-burgers (so original), in ??? Are we just supposed to assume me hitchhiked to Pittsburgh?
For good measure, the parents should have another kid, who becomes a Yankees/Lakers fan.
That commercial sums up the NFL perfectly so far this year.
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So if I breakdown this commercial right...
- The Viking kid (boy) marries an Eagles fan and they randomly move to Cincy, and to spite their parents (who would have zero reason to watch Bengal games) become Bengal fans.
Makes sense.
-The daughter, clearly a Vikes fan from her phone case, randomly meets Emmitt Smith, takes a selfie, and now she ditches the Vikes to be a Pokes fan?
Right...
-The teenage boy is apparently disowned, and is eating Roethlis-burgers (so original), in ??? Are we just supposed to assume me hitchhiked to Pittsburgh?
For good measure, the parents should have another kid, who becomes a Yankees/Lakers fan.
That commercial sums up the NFL perfectly so far this year.
Nailed it. The message is "Quit asking questions and give us your money."
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Rodgers being Rodgers. Randle being Randle. Jordy being Jordy. This team is fun to watch when they are clicking.
John Randle? I thought he retired.
C'mon, as a Packers fan you need to know Mr. Cobb's first name.
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John Randle? I thought he retired.
C'mon, as a Packers fan you need to know Mr. Cobb's first name.
You're right.
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Goodell's bodyguard "allegedly" assaulted a NY Daily News photog.
You can't even make this stuff up any more.
You missed the part about the photographer being arrested in the incident and the bodyguard not. That seems to be an important point.
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You missed the part about the photographer being arrested in the incident and the bodyguard not. That seems to be an important point.
You're right. It is an important part, because witnesses indicate that the bodyguard pinned the photographer (who was on his bike) against a car with his SUV and then got out and attacked the photographer.
However, the bodyguard is an ex-cop and when the cops showed up apparently they greeted him with handshakes and hellos and instead of listening to witnesses arrested the photographer.
Big part of the story given that there are indications that Ray Rice received special treatment and that the players think they are above the law….seems like Goodell and his bodyguards may feel the same way.
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Numerous witnesses saying one thing or someone with power and money saying the opposite. Who should we believe?
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A witness said that, not witnesses. Furthermore, the action started previously when the photographer ran into the car. We'll see how it plays out, but as of right now one person has been arrested and it isn't the bodyguard. Something tells me the media won't be in a big hurry to get the entire story on this since they are in shark mode right now, but we shall see.
I just thought it interesting that the post talked about an alleged attack and forgot to mention the photographer was arrested.....the new iOS may be at fault. :P
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Yawn.
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Taxes, death, and 2nd half Bears turnovers in tight games.
Can the Bears carry 2 starting quarterbacks and play Jay Cutler in the 1st half and the backup in the 2nd half? ;-) They might be alright then.
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So yeah...
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If Tim Tebow was in deep thought would it be a Christian Ponder?
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Kudos to the Lions. Another new way to lose.
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Oh well. I can stop caring about the Bears in week 5 at least instead of week 17. On the bright side Cutler and Alshon are still fantasy monsters for me.
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Needs to be said...Brandon Marshall having poor season. Cutler aside, Marshall keeps no showing.
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If Tim Tebow was in deep thought would it be a Christian Ponder?
Well played.
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Needs to be said...Brandon Marshall having poor season. Cutler aside, Marshall keeps no showing.
That's a good point. I truly don't know, is he healthy? I know he's been banged up throughout parts of the season. Also seemed like Bennett wasn't a big part of the game plan when he had been a complete beast the past 2 weeks.
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If Tim Tebow was in deep thought would it be a Christian Ponder?
Old....very old
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121103151125AAIaKN6
But still pretty good
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Oh look, pink. The NFL really cares about women.
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Oh look, pink. The NFL really cares about women.
Exactly!
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Interesting to see if the Bears implode by the end of October. I think bad things happen to them next week in Atlanta, assuming that happens, they'd be sitting at 2-4.
I didn't really expect anything from Jared Allen, and I realize he was sick last week and fighting back this week, but between him and Houston, Bears have gotten nothing from either one of those guys.
If the Bears are going to be bad, I'd rather have them be real bad.
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Oh look, pink. The NFL really cares about women.
Every sport has been doing this for many years. The NFL does care about women, as consumers and fans, as wives and daughters and mothers....I have several colleagues that are women that are sr management \ execs at the NFL. Great women. Because some a-hole players ( a small number) were raised without daddies, entitled from the get go, have no idea how to treat women doesn't mean the entire NFL is that way.
This is about as foolish as the Coaches vs Cancer nonsense every year. People have to bitch about something.
Come to think of it, when Marquette wore pink uniforms last year, clearly they didn't care about cancer or women or none of that stuff....it was all self serving, especially on the heels of sexual assault only one year removed. Cynical tsk tsk
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Every sport has been doing this for many years. The NFL does care about women, as consumers and fans, as wives and daughters and mothers....I have several colleagues that are women that are sr management \ execs at the NFL. Great women. Because some a-hole players ( a small number) were raised without daddies, entitled from the get go, have no idea how to treat women doesn't mean the entire NFL is that way.
This is about as foolish as the Coaches vs Cancer nonsense every year. People have to bitch about something.
Come to think of it, when Marquette wore pink uniforms last year, clearly they didn't care about cancer or women or none of that stuff....it was all self serving, especially on the heels of sexual assault only one year removed. Cynical tsk tsk
Damn right I'll be cynical about the NFL and women right now. The only reason Ray Rice wasn't on the field today was PR, not anything about caring or having a moral/ethical stance. So you'll have to excuse me, I guess, when I doubt the reasoning behind the pink campaign.
I'll agree with you that the NFL cares about women from a consumer or fan standpoint, but only because $$$.
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2009....cleats idea came from DeAngelo Williams. One may wonder WHY it did. I'll let a few of you do a little research, but breast cancer impacted his family http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/08/pink-cleats-idea-came-from-deangelo-williams/
Pink bats in MLB
College basketball pink uniforms
Etc, etc
Is it a marketing ploy also? Of course it is, one would be a fool not to think so. No different than companies running around saying how green they are. Or honoring military at sporting events....some of that is marketing as well. We can be cynical all day about this stuff and part of it will be true. Do you want them to bring awareness or not?
They should all just stop it....no more?
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Because some a-hole players ( a small number) were raised without daddies, entitled from the get go, have no idea how to treat women doesn't mean the entire NFL is that way.
Not quite sure why you had to throw single motherhood into the equation here. Ray Rice was indeed raised by a single mother. But Greg Hardy and Ray McDonald, for instance, were not.
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Not quite sure why you had to throw single motherhood into the equation here. Ray Rice was indeed raised by a single mother. But Greg Hardy and Ray McDonald, for instance, were not.
He doesn't care about slurs when it comes to the Redskins, so why would he care about slurring blacks?
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Interesting to see if the Bears implode by the end of October. I think bad things happen to them next week in Atlanta, assuming that happens, they'd be sitting at 2-4.
I didn't really expect anything from Jared Allen, and I realize he was sick last week and fighting back this week, but between him and Houston, Bears have gotten nothing from either one of those guys.
If the Bears are going to be bad, I'd rather have them be real bad.
What is with the play calling? I just... I feel like typing so many things, but I just.. Need a drink.
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Interesting to see if the Bears implode by the end of October. I think bad things happen to them next week in Atlanta, assuming that happens, they'd be sitting at 2-4.
I didn't really expect anything from Jared Allen, and I realize he was sick last week and fighting back this week, but between him and Houston, Bears have gotten nothing from either one of those guys.
If the Bears are going to be bad, I'd rather have them be real bad.
I don't think you have a lot to worry about......yet.
Looking at their schedule, I didn't see any way they could be better than 3-3 in their 1st 6 games. They are still on track although winning in Atlanta will be tough. After that, I only see @GB and @Detroit as sure losses. Anything else is winnable. But Jay better quit throwing to the other team if they are gonna make things happen. The turnovers are killing them.
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Oh look, pink. The NFL really cares about women.
Yeah, Some Cheerleaders had to sue, attempting to get Minimum wage or higher. This NFL is full of Window Dressing!
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Interesting to see if the Bears implode by the end of October. I think bad things happen to them next week in Atlanta, assuming that happens, they'd be sitting at 2-4.
I didn't really expect anything from Jared Allen, and I realize he was sick last week and fighting back this week, but between him and Houston, Bears have gotten nothing from either one of those guys.
If the Bears are going to be bad, I'd rather have them be real bad.
Starting to think you may get your wish (and I don't think either if us would be too surprised), as I am also starting to think Trestman may be in over his head. I liked what I saw early on, and think he may be a brilliant offensive mind, but I also hear a lot of Mike Sherman in most of his pressers. Still 2/3 of the season left, but if they continue to struggle as they have, I'm probably moving on him the day the season ends.
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I don't know about the Bears. I think Trestman seems like a good coach. The playcalling is good. The effort is there. I just don't think the personnel is good enough, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
To go along with what Dish said above, the linebackers aren't all that good and the defensive line isn't living up to expectations. (To be honest, I thought that Allen over Peppers was not going to be an upgrade, and I couldn't quite figure out why people were saying it was.)
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Vikings game was awful. Watched only until it was 14-0. Ponder & Asiata behind center... what do you want? Crap.
Do you want them to bring awareness or not?
They should all just stop it....no more?
I'd rather less of the "pink awareness" campaigns. The message is out there. There are many areas of need (cancer types and other) that are hurt by the pink powerhouse.
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There are many areas of need (cancer types and other) that are hurt by the pink powerhouse.
Komen is an evil organization. I can't wait for it to self-destruct, which it will.
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Komen is an evil organization. I can't wait for it to self-destruct, which it will.
Is "evil" really the word you want here?
Hitler, Manson and Bin Laden were evil.
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This should be interesting.
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Komen is an evil organization. I can't wait for it to self-destruct, which it will.
I agree 100%
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I don't know about the Bears. I think Trestman seems like a good coach. The playcalling is good. The effort is there. I just don't think the personnel is good enough, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
To go along with what Dish said above, the linebackers aren't all that good and the defensive line isn't living up to expectations. (To be honest, I thought that Allen over Peppers was not going to be an upgrade, and I couldn't quite figure out why people were saying it was.)
Yeah...as a Bears fan I was hoping for more from this "revamped" D-Line but they have little to no push. I will say they are playing the run better but you'd have to considering how bad they were last year.
I hated Shea on the D-Line as he got pushed around way too easily...now you've traded him out for Jared Allen who doesn't seem to be able to hold his own against O-Line men...he's getting pushed around.
Yes, the Linebackers are either old or just not very good. The only free agent playing well is Willie Young.
And being a long -time Cutler apologist, I may have to rethink my approach...
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Cutler reminds me of a less-talented Brett Favre. Always good for a couple bad throws a game and you just hope it doesn't come back to kill you.
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Komen is an evil organization. I can't wait for it to self-destruct, which it will.
If someone wants to donate to support cancer research, the American Cancer Society is the most efficient cancer charity, and has the best idea how to allocate resources across the disease spectrum.
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Yeah...as a Bears fan I was hoping for more from this "revamped" D-Line but they have little to no push. I will say they are playing the run better but you'd have to considering how bad they were last year.
I hated Shea on the D-Line as he got pushed around way too easily...now you've traded him out for Jared Allen who doesn't seem to be able to hold his own against O-Line men...he's getting pushed around.
Yes, the Linebackers are either old or just not very good. The only free agent playing well is Willie Young.
Teams should (and have) run nothing but crossing routes against Chicago, seems to be a 20 yard dead zone in the middle of the field every time. The only other guy on the defense that i have been impressed with is Kyle Fuller. Ego Ferguson has been decent as well. I would like to give Allen a couple weeks, as I know he isn't full strength, but so far I am unimpressed.
I am not sold on the play calling. It seems like they are trying to feature a new guy every week, this week Forte, last week the Black Unicorn.
And honestly the Bears return men should NEVER bring the ball out of the end zone on a kickoff. NEVER. Can't wait to see Hester take one back next week.
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If someone wants to donate to support cancer research, the American Cancer Society is the most efficient cancer charity, and has the best idea how to allocate resources across the disease spectrum.
I support a local charity, the Rock River Cancer Research Foundation via http://www.ridintoacure.com/
http://rrcrf.org/history/
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Komen is an evil organization. I can't wait for it to self-destruct, which it will.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Cutler reminds me of a less-talented Brett Favre. Always good for a couple bad throws a game and you just hope it doesn't come back to kill you.
It also highlights the frustrating nature of this team. The first INT was flukey, whatever. But other than that, he plays a very good game, great completion percentage, but the playcalling is wonky and they don't score much in the second half, and then one bad throw and suddenly its treacherous. Its not being a Cutler apologist, cant turn it over there, but its frustrating for your QB to play a good game and still have no breathing room. Also, the Forte fumble was a killer. Given that Cutler played well before the last INT, really wanted to see him get a redemption chance on that final drive which totally could have changed the storyline.
And man its frustrating to see a less than 100% QB like Newton just carve up this defense in the air.
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Vikings game was awful. Watched only until it was 14-0. Ponder & Asiata behind center... what do you want? Crap.
I'd rather less of the "pink awareness" campaigns. The message is out there. There are many areas of need (cancer types and other) that are hurt by the pink powerhouse.
We can say that about anything....pick a cause, any cause, and someone wants more awareness. I have a personal bias, I'd love for them to push Juvenile Type 1 diabetes, but that's not how the world works. Only 2 million American kids have it, so it isn't big enough of a deal. I'm not sure how the pink powerhouse hurts others, this Summer's ice bucket challenge shows some creativity can break through very quickly get noticed.
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We can say that about anything....pick a cause, any cause, and someone wants more awareness. I have a personal bias, I'd love for them to push Juvenile Type 1 diabetes, but that's not how the world works. Only 2 million American kids have it, so it isn't big enough of a deal. I'm not sure how the pink powerhouse hurts others, this Summer's ice bucket challenge shows some creativity can break through very quickly get noticed.
It hurts because it sucks oxygen out of the room and creates gross inefficiencies. Yes breast cancer sucks, and yes it is a noble cause, but it is also not the most "critical" of the cancers. Heck, most breast cancer awareness groups, especially Koman, don't even focus on the most deadly form of breast cancer, metastatic.
I'm all for donating to causes, but you really should be looking at the efficiency of the group you are donating to. Take United Way or American Cancer Society, they are over 90% efficient with their donations whereas Koman or others are down near 50%.
Lastly, I have a real issue with causes becoming marketing campaigns. Why is breast cancer so well known? Because it is viewed as a means of good PR, it reaches a demographic most companies, especially the NFL want to reach. It has almost nothing to do with the cause and everything to do with marketing. Yes this is cynical but I don't think it makes it any less true.
In a dream scenario, people wouldn't donate to causes they would donate to "The Fund". The money in "The Fund" would be distributed based on need, effectiveness and criticality to society. As an example, heart disease kills far more women than breast cancer, one could argue heart disease research would be a more effective ROI in terms of lives saved than breast cancer research.
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It hurts because it sucks oxygen out of the room and creates gross inefficiencies. Yes breast cancer sucks, and yes it is a noble cause, but it is also not the most "critical" of the cancers. Heck, most breast cancer awareness groups, especially Koman, don't even focus on the most deadly form of breast cancer, metastatic.
I'm all for donating to causes, but you really should be looking at the efficiency of the group you are donating to. Take United Way or American Cancer Society, they are over 90% efficient with their donations whereas Koman or others are down near 50%.
Lastly, I have a real issue with causes becoming marketing campaigns. Why is breast cancer so well known? Because it is viewed as a means of good PR, it reaches a demographic most companies, especially the NFL want to reach. It has almost nothing to do with the cause and everything to do with marketing. Yes this is cynical but I don't think it makes it any less true.
In a dream scenario, people wouldn't donate to causes they would donate to "The Fund". The money in "The Fund" would be distributed based on need, effectiveness and criticality to society. As an example, heart disease kills far more women than breast cancer, one could argue heart disease research would be a more effective ROI in terms of lives saved than breast cancer research.
I don't disagree with 99% of what you are saying. I can make the same argument about the Salvation Army (very inefficient), or any other causes. I also agree with you on the marketing stuff, as I said yesterday. Same for "going green" BS...but that's the world for you.
The 1% I disagree with you on is the cynicism that "it has almost nothing to do with the cause and everything to do with marketing". Marketing is very key, it is reality, it is part of their PR and messaging, but let's not pretend that people in the league haven't been impacted by cancers to their mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, colleagues. Of course they have. In terms of heart disease and breast cancer, again...we can have these debates forever. Yes, more women die of heart disease than breast cancer, but how many women have breast cancer that don't die? Doesn't matter what cause one chooses, someone else is going to believe their cause isn't getting just due. So the sports leagues are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The cynics will scream they are ONLY doing it for the marketing and PR (a bunch of truth to that, but not wholly truthful), and if they don't do anything then people are screaming that the NFL or the sports leagues aren't doing enough to raise awareness for these causes. Pick your poison.
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It also highlights the frustrating nature of this team. The first INT was flukey, whatever. But other than that, he plays a very good game, great completion percentage, but the playcalling is wonky and they don't score much in the second half, and then one bad throw and suddenly its treacherous. Its not being a Cutler apologist, cant turn it over there, but its frustrating for your QB to play a good game and still have no breathing room. Also, the Forte fumble was a killer. Given that Cutler played well before the last INT, really wanted to see him get a redemption chance on that final drive which totally could have changed the storyline.
And man its frustrating to see a less than 100% QB like Newton just carve up this defense in the air.
I was at the game and enjoyed it immensely, as I'm a Panthers fan. I lived in Chicago for 16 years before moving to N.C. and my son still lives there. He's a huge Bears fan, was visiting me and joined me at the game, so it's nice to have bragging rights.
Cutler has always been just good enough to get coaches and offensive coordinators fired. Sunday was a perfect representation of that. Played well much of the day but he should have avoided a couple of sacks, should have looked far more often for his WRs than he did because that's where the Bears had a major advantage and, of course, threw a killer INT with 6 minutes to play. Thanks, Jay!
To blame this one on Cutler would be a stretch, as two of the most reliable Bears of the last decade - Gould and Forte - f'ed up royally. Still, it's amazing how often Chicago fans have to say: "Cutler was good ... if only he didn't make that killer mistake."
Marc Trestman, we hardly knew ye. I wonder who Cutler's next victim will be?
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I was at the game and enjoyed it immensely, as I'm a Panthers fan. I lived in Chicago for 16 years before moving to N.C. and my son still lives there. He's a huge Bears fan, was visiting me and joined me at the game, so it's nice to have bragging rights.
Cutler has always been just good enough to get coaches and offensive coordinators fired. Sunday was a perfect representation of that. Played well much of the day but he should have avoided a couple of sacks, should have looked far more often for his WRs than he did because that's where the Bears had a major advantage and, of course, threw a killer INT with 6 minutes to play. Thanks, Jay!
To blame this one on Cutler would be a stretch, as two of the most reliable Bears of the last decade - Gould and Forte - f'ed up royally. Still, it's amazing how often Chicago fans have to say: "Cutler was good ... if only he didn't make that killer mistake."
Marc Trestman, we hardly knew ye. I wonder who Cutler's next victim will be?
Maybe whoever decided it was a good idea to throw $125 million his way?
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I'm not sure how the pink powerhouse hurts others
You may be well served to step back and so a little thinking.
What diseases does Cutler have? It doesn't seem like he can everbe loved in Chicago. Time to part ways?
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You may be well served to step back and so a little thinking.
What diseases does Cutler have? It doesn't seem like he can everbe loved in Chicago. Time to part ways?
? From what I see it seems he gets way too much love in Chicago. It's everywhere else that he can't be loved. And part ways...how, exactly? He's the Bears' Ryan Braun. That contract is one they will greatly regret.
Spoken like a true (see: clueless) Vikings fan.
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Still fine with the contract. It's front loaded and seriously I don't get the get rid of Jay sentiment. Who can the Bears honestly have a chance of getting that would be an improvement.
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Still fine with the contract. It's front loaded and seriously I don't get the get rid of Jay sentiment. Who can the Bears honestly have a chance of getting that would be an improvement.
I hear former first round pick Christian Ponder is 3rd string. Maybe he'll be released this offseason.
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I hear former first round pick Christian Ponder is 3rd string. Maybe he'll be released this offseason.
Exactly, you're proving my point. Cutler is the best option for the Bears for the next 5 years or so. They won't ein a superbowl but they're never gonna be bad enough to get a high first round pick to get a guy like Andrew Luck.
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Maybe whoever decided it was a good idea to throw $125 million his way?
Cutler's contract is 3 yrs $54 mil in real terms.
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? From what I see it seems he gets way too much love in Chicago. It's everywhere else that he can't be loved. And part ways...how, exactly? He's the Bears' Ryan Braun. That contract is one they will greatly regret.
Spoken like a true (see: clueless) Vikings fan.
???
He's the Bears Ryan Braun? Meaning he's another guy that you obsessed with trashing?
Does Jay make mistakes? Yes. More often than I would like? Yes. Did he "cost them" Sunday's game? No. I have no issue with his contract, because who is out there that is a better option? McCown? That sure worked out well for Tampa. Josh may be the Bears Matt Flynn. I get so sick of the "same old Jay" mantra from Packers fans, and yes I only hear about it from Packers fans. It's so tired. If he smiled and played nice with the media I think the Jay bashing wouldn't exist, but it does, so whatever. I hope you realize how incredibly fortunate you have been to fall into the Favre-Rodgers years. Not every fan base is so lucky.
F*%K, this season sucks. Damn cheeseheads.
(winky face)
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???
He's the Bears Ryan Braun? Meaning he's another guy that you obsessed with trashing?
Does Jay make mistakes? Yes. More often than I would like? Yes. Did he "cost them" Sunday's game? No. I have no issue with his contract, because who is out there that is a better option? McCown? That sure worked out well for Tampa. Josh may be the Bears Matt Flynn. I get so sick of the "same old Jay" mantra from Packers fans, and yes I only hear about it from Packers fans. It's so tired. If he smiled and played nice with the media I think the Jay bashing wouldn't exist, but it does, so whatever. I hope you realize how incredibly fortunate you have been to fall into the Favre-Rodgers years. Not every fan base is so lucky.
F*%K, this season sucks. Damn cheeseheads.
(winky face)
Yeah, I don't understand why Packers fans hate on or care about Jay so much. The guy is 1-10 against the Pack. They should love him.
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Yeah, I don't understand why Packers fans hate on or care about Jay so much. The guy is 1-10 against the Pack. They should love him.
It's that wisconsin inferiority complex. Always have to see what big brother chicago is up to.
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It's that wisconsin inferiority complex. Always have to see what big brother chicago is up to.
This comment sounds more like a misplaced Chicago superiority complex.
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He's the Bears Ryan Braun? Meaning he's another guy that you obsessed with trashing?
He trashes everything he doesn't like. Braun, Cutler, soccer, college football, etc.
I don't quite understand why Wade's gets off telling everyone why he doesn't like someone or something, but he does it constantly.
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He trashes everything he doesn't like. Braun, Cutler, soccer, college football, etc.
I don't quite understand why Wade's gets off telling everyone why he doesn't like someone or something, but he does it constantly.
"Bashes everything he doesn't like." Something along those lines.
Is the Braun contract a good contract?
Is the Jay Cutler contract a good contract?
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"Bashes everything he doesn't like." Something along those lines.
Is the Braun contract a good contract?
Is the Jay Cutler contract a good contract?
Ok, then name a better option for either team.
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Ok, then name a better option for either team.
Well, I could find you quite a few different right fielders who hit .270 with 19 homers and don't make $20 million/year for the next 6 years.
Bears? No better QBs available. Still doesn't make it a good contract.
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Well, I could find you quite a few different right fielders who hit .270 with 19 homers and don't make $20 million/year for the next 6 years.
They didn't sign him to the contract right now.
Bears? No better QBs available. Still doesn't make it a good contract.
The contract is fine. It is hardly dragging on their cap and you are correct...no one better available.
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They didn't sign him to the contract right now.
The contract is fine. It is hardly dragging on their cap and you are correct...no one better available.
You are right, they didn't sign Braun this off season so they couldn't have seen this type of downfall this fast. But it doesn't matter how good Ryan Braun was going to be in the future. If you aren't going to exceed a roughly $100 million payroll then you should not be paying 1 player $20 million/year. You can't spend 1/5 of your payroll on a single player in baseball. In basketball you can afford to give a higher percentage of your cap space to one or two players because there are less players on the court at one time than there are baseball players on the field or football players on the field. 1/5 of your payroll cannot go to 1 guy in baseball. I don't care if Ryan Braun had continued to put up Hall of Fame numbers through the entire length of that contract, it was a bad contract no matter what. You cannot pay him that money just like you could not pay CC that money, Greinke that money, or Prince that money. Go sign 3 a RF, 1B, and 3B who won't be All Stars but won't be awful either for that money.
As far as Cutler goes I guess the question becomes is he worth the money they are giving him? Compare him to other quarterbacks in the NFL, and is he given what he is earning? I mean, Jay Cutler has the highest base salary of any QB in the NFL this year. I would put Jay right in the middle of the NFL in terms of starting quarterbacks, but he's being paid more than any other in base salary for this season.
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And since this will undoubtedly come up, what QBs are better than Cutler?
Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Brady, Wilson, Luck, Rivers, Foles, Matt Ryan, Kaepernik, Rothlisberger for sure.
Romo, Stafford, Newton, Eli in the same group as him.
Bortles, RG3 when healthy (okay, so never), Hoyer have brighter futures.
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And since this will undoubtedly come up, what QBs are better than Cutler?
Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Brady, Wilson, Luck, Rivers, Foles, Matt Ryan, Kaepernik, Rothlisberger for sure.
Romo, Stafford, Newton, Eli in the same group as him.
Bortles, RG3 when healthy (okay, so never), Hoyer have brighter futures.
I disagree with your first category. I think several of those guys are on the same level as Cutler. Also, Hoyer turns 29 next week. His future isn't much different than Cutler's.
Overall, I think there are only a handful (maybe those first 6 you listed) QBs the Bears would absolutely rather have than Cutler. A couple more like Bortles or Bridgewater have potential going for them. Beyond that, he's more or less equal to (or better than) the rest.
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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/10/06/peterson-reportedly-used-charity-funds-to-pay-for-sex-party/?intcmp=latestnews
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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/10/06/peterson-reportedly-used-charity-funds-to-pay-for-sex-party/?intcmp=latestnews
You cant make this stuff up...
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I disagree with your first category. I think several of those guys are on the same level as Cutler. Also, Hoyer turns 29 next week. His future isn't much different than Cutler's.
Overall, I think there are only a handful (maybe those first 6 you listed) QBs the Bears would absolutely rather have than Cutler. A couple more like Bortles or Bridgewater have potential going for them. Beyond that, he's more or less equal to (or better than) the rest.
Who in the top group would you move down to the equal list?
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Who in the top group would you move down to the equal list?
Kaep and Foles to start with.
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Who in the top group would you move down to the equal list?
Rivers, Foles, Matt Ryan, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger. Take those five, Cutler, Newton, Eli, Stafford, Flacco, Dalton, and Romo and randomly switch their teams, and I don't think there's much difference (outside the obvious issues of style/compatibility.) The QB position is incredibly valuable, but I don't think there's much separating a large portion of the starters around the league.
Some have had more success than others, but I don't see much material difference in their abilities.
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Rivers, Foles, Matt Ryan, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger. Take those five, Cutler, Newton, Eli, Stafford, Flacco, Dalton, and Romo and randomly switch their teams, and I don't think there's much difference (outside the obvious issues of style/compatibility.) The QB position is incredibly valuable, but I don't think there's much separating a large portion of the starters around the league.
Some have had more success than others, but I don't see much material difference in their abilities.
Rivers, Foles, and Ryan in my opinion are a step up from Cutler. Rothlisburger has won 2 Super Bowls but is on the decline. I can give you Kaepernick. I forgot about Dalton and would agree he is on the same level as Cutler, Romo, Eli, Newton, and Stafford.
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Kaep is essentially the same as Cutler. Has all the ability but makes some questionable decisions. Foles hasn't showed me enough and I think he is incredibly overrated.
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As far as Cutler goes I guess the question becomes is he worth the money they are giving him? Compare him to other quarterbacks in the NFL, and is he given what he is earning? I mean, Jay Cutler has the highest base salary of any QB in the NFL this year. I would put Jay right in the middle of the NFL in terms of starting quarterbacks, but he's being paid more than any other in base salary for this season.
That's not really how it works though. Contracts aren't perfectly correlated with performance. And if someone is getting paid more in any given year, it could be do to the team's cap issues, the other options available, etc.
Cutler's contract is fine. It isn't excessively burdensome in either the short or long run.
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Kaep is essentially the same as Cutler. Has all the ability but makes some questionable decisions. Foles hasn't showed me enough and I think he is incredibly overrated.
Except Jay has all the experience and keeps doing it.
Only stat that matters with Jay: 8 years in the league - 1 playoff appearance
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Kaep is essentially the same as Cutler. Has all the ability but makes some questionable decisions. Foles hasn't showed me enough and I think he is incredibly overrated.
So you think a guy who had 27 touchdowns to 2 interceptions with almost 3,000 yards in 13 games last season is incredibly overrated? Okay, I guess. He also rushed for 3 touchdowns and fumbled just twice. Jay Cutler's best career season does not come even close to that difference in touchdowns to turnovers. In fact, Jay Cutler's career high in touchdowns for an entire season is that same 27 that Foles put up in 13 weeks last year, and Cutler threw TWENTY SIX interceptions that season! His best season is 25 touchdowns to 18 interceptions. Foles had 30 touchdowns to 4 turnovers last season in 13 games. Next time Jay Cutler is within 15 turnovers of having a +26 touchdown to turnover margin let me know and we'll talk overrated.
Foles has 41 touchdowns, 12 interceptions, 10 fumbles, and 4 rushing touchdowns in 25 career games played. Their career completion percentages are almost identical, with Foles being percentage points higher.
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Except Jay has all the experience and keeps doing it.
Only stat that matters with Jay: 8 years in the league - 1 playoff appearance
+2
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I get so sick of the "same old Jay" mantra from Packers fans, and yes I only hear about it from Packers fans. It's so tired. If he smiled and played nice with the media I think the Jay bashing wouldn't exist, but it does, so whatever. I hope you realize how incredibly fortunate you have been to fall into the Favre-Rodgers years. Not every fan base is so lucky.
F*%K, this season sucks. Damn cheeseheads.
(winky face)
I get tired of other teams' fans reminding us of the great Favre/Rodgers run - the Bears passed on Rodgers and took Cedric Benson @ #4 and anyone could have had Favre at the time
(winky face)
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I get tired of other teams' fans reminding us of the great Favre/Rodgers run - the Bears passed on Rodgers and took Cedric Benson @ #4 and anyone could have had Favre at the time
(winky face)
We didn't need Rodgers, we had Sexy Rexy. But hey, we did draft Orton...
(pounds head on wall.)
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This is a good piece...
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/i-love-that-jay-cutler-doesnt-care-that-i-love-him-da88cea5f066
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We didn't need Rodgers, we had Sexy Rexy. But hey, we did draft Orton...
(pounds head on wall.)
Moses Moreno was always my favorite Bears dregs QB of the 1990s.
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I hope you realize how incredibly fortunate you have been to fall into the Favre-Rodgers years. Not every fan base is so lucky.
I was born just after Super Bowl II.
I lived through Lynn Dickey (who was good but a statue), David Whitehurst, Randy Wright, The Majik Man, Blair Kiel, Anthony Dilweg, etc.
I know full well how lucky we are. And I also know full well that after Rodgers retires, I could go the rest of my life without seeing another Super Bowl. Back in the day I only wanted to witness one Lombardi Trophy. That is all I asked for. I witnessed two. I am playing with house money.
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This is a good piece...
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/i-love-that-jay-cutler-doesnt-care-that-i-love-him-da88cea5f066
Perfect.
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Moses Moreno was always my favorite Bears dregs QB of the 1990s.
I preferred the Henry Burris era.
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I preferred the Henry Burris era.
Jack Concannon.
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Jack Concannon.
GB or Chi?
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This is a good piece...
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/i-love-that-jay-cutler-doesnt-care-that-i-love-him-da88cea5f066
Sounds like he's just rephrasing all of the excuses people give Jay for why he can't win when it counts or why he makes stupid turnovers at inopportune times. Bad line, bad defense, a lot of offensive coordinators, other players turn the ball over, other players run the wrong route, etc. I actually do agree with him that Jay really doesn't throw his teammates under the bus. Does he take blame? I don't know. But he doesn't call others out (well, in press conferences...his yelling on the field sometimes seems to be that). Which is why I guess I don't understand how when Jay Cutler says things like, "I need to be better," Bears fans have a hard time saying "Jay needs to play better."
http://www.suntimes.com/30164356-761/jay-cutler-is-no-aaron-rodgers.html#.VCtZFfldUgQ
This is also a good piece. And, woah, I thought only Packers fans and Jay Cutler haters wrote stuff like this about Jay. Weird, a Chicago sports writer wrote that? I get it, nobody is saying that he is Aaron Rodgers. But I do agree with the author when he says that the Bears try to (or at least have tried to?) sell Cutler as elite, but points out all the things Cutler does that truly elite quarterbacks simply don't do.
Cutler is talented. If he could value the football he would be a great quarterback. Maybe his errors are mental. His footwork certainly falls apart at times, but again maybe that's just getting rushed and more of a mental thing.
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Lions to sign Prater. Maybe they will have their first 40+ yard made FG of the year this week.
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Hub makes it pretty clear where he stands on Jay. I think he sums it up pretty well.
http://chicagofootball.com/2014/10/07/hub-arkush-plenty-of-blame-to-go-around-for-chicago-bears-in-carolina-panthers-fiasco/ax3ogo7/?page=2 (http://chicagofootball.com/2014/10/07/hub-arkush-plenty-of-blame-to-go-around-for-chicago-bears-in-carolina-panthers-fiasco/ax3ogo7/?page=2)
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Sounds like he's just rephrasing all of the excuses people give Jay for why he can't win when it counts or why he makes stupid turnovers at inopportune times. Bad line, bad defense, a lot of offensive coordinators, other players turn the ball over, other players run the wrong route, etc. I actually do agree with him that Jay really doesn't throw his teammates under the bus. Does he take blame? I don't know. But he doesn't call others out (well, in press conferences...his yelling on the field sometimes seems to be that). Which is why I guess I don't understand how when Jay Cutler says things like, "I need to be better," Bears fans have a hard time saying "Jay needs to play better."
http://www.suntimes.com/30164356-761/jay-cutler-is-no-aaron-rodgers.html#.VCtZFfldUgQ
This is also a good piece. And, woah, I thought only Packers fans and Jay Cutler haters wrote stuff like this about Jay. Weird, a Chicago sports writer wrote that? I get it, nobody is saying that he is Aaron Rodgers. But I do agree with the author when he says that the Bears try to (or at least have tried to?) sell Cutler as elite, but points out all the things Cutler does that truly elite quarterbacks simply don't do.
Cutler is talented. If he could value the football he would be a great quarterback. Maybe his errors are mental. His footwork certainly falls apart at times, but again maybe that's just getting rushed and more of a mental thing.
Nowhere did I or other people make excuses for Cutler in the Carolina game. I said I thought he played a really good game but his overthrow was brutally timed. But like the article says, he's in a position to right the wrong and his All-Star RB, who was finally playing well, coughs the ball up completely unnecessarily. Deadspin's play rankings had that ranked as the most damaging play of the week. My point is, Cutler needs to be better. He admits it, logical fans admit it, I'm just tired of him being the default scapegoat every time they lose. Hub's article is the same thing. "He needs to find a way to win those kind of games"...kind of like when he did it a few weeks ago in SF or in NY? This isn't a great team, some potent weapons to be sure, but not enough that every loss is cause of some glaring deficiency at the QB position
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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/10/06/peterson-reportedly-used-charity-funds-to-pay-for-sex-party/?intcmp=latestnews
It's faux news, can't be true if faux news is reporting it
Sincerely,
Brandx
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You may be well served to step back and so a little thinking.
What diseases does Cutler have? It doesn't seem like he can everbe loved in Chicago. Time to part ways?
He is a type 1 diabetic....not sure about other diseases. When my daughter was diagnosed I recall at Children's hospital they provided a list of famous othe insulin dependent diabetics.
I stand by my statement, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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It's faux news, can't be true if faux news is reporting it
Sincerely,
Brandx
It sounds like it might not be true, so that didn't work too well for you. All Day, Inc. is different from All Day Foundation, according to Peterson.
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It sounds like it might not be true, so that didn't work too well for you. All Day, Inc. is different from All Day Foundation, according to Peterson.
You must have read his talking points from Twitter.
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It's faux news, can't be true if faux news is reporting it
Sincerely,
Brandx
You're a moron!
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I know it's Barstool, but still...
http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/adrian-peterson-is-about-to-get-arrested-for-admitting-he-smoked-a-little-weed-right-before-he-had-to-give-a-urine-sample-yesterday/
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You're a moron!
Yeah, but he's our moron!
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Sweet, another terrible Thursday night game! Anytime you can significantly downgrade the quality of your product to the consumer for millions of dollars...ya gotta do it.
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Sweet, another terrible Thursday night game! Anytime you can significantly downgrade the quality of your product to the consumer for millions of dollars...ya gotta do it.
The games are actually getting worse, didn't think that was possible.
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Sweet, another terrible Thursday night game! Anytime you can significantly downgrade the quality of your product to the consumer for millions of dollars...ya gotta do it.
We had Dan Patrick and Rich Eisen on their shows today go through the average margin of victory and scoring in these Thursday night games vs Sunday games. The difference is minute. Meanwhile, this game tonight is 27-21 in the 3rd quarter.
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We had Dan Patrick and Rich Eisen on their shows today go through the average margin of victory and scoring in these Thursday night games vs Sunday games. The difference is minute. Meanwhile, this game tonight is 27-21 in the 3rd quarter.
You need to comprehend the word context my friend, or gain an understanding of the timing of posts, either one will work.
End of Q1, 24-0, Texans -9 yds passing, at time of posts.
Either you're watching imaginary TV, or don't watch much football.
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You need to comprehend the word context my friend, or gain an understanding of the timing of posts, either one will work.
End of Q1, 24-0, Texans -9 yds passing, at time of posts.
Either you're watching imaginary TV, or don't watch much football.
I watch a ton of football, that's the point. Most fans watch their own local team each Sunday and perhaps the second game, might watch Sunday and Monday night. Point is, the average scores in the Thursday games vs the Sunday games over the last few years is almost identical.
Yes, I know you posted early in the game, which leaves you vulnerable to what has been a very entertaining game tonight. That doesn't change the fact that Thursday night games compared to the aggregate of all the other games are virtually the same.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpagels/2014/10/09/no-thursday-nfl-games-arent-more-sloppy-or-prone-to-blowouts/
;)
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I watch a ton of football, that's the point. Most fans watch their own local team each Sunday and perhaps the second game, might watch Sunday and Monday night. Point is, the average scores in the Thursday games vs the Sunday games over the last few years is almost identical.
Yes, I know you posted early in the game, which leaves you vulnerable to what has been a very entertaining game tonight. That doesn't change the fact that Thursday night games compared to the aggregate of all the other games are virtually the same.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpagels/2014/10/09/no-thursday-nfl-games-arent-more-sloppy-or-prone-to-blowouts/
;)
This article has been all over Twitter, the internet. I don't care about games dating back to 1990. I live in 2014, and the product on Thursday nights has been terrible, that can't be debated.
Here's the thing, I consume as much NFL football as anyone I know. When this game was 24-0, I turned it off. You know why? Because all Thursday night games have been blowouts. As a consumer of the NFL, I no longer wanted to invest in the product this evening. That's a problem.
The game ended close, I turned it back on with 6 mins to go, and it ended very poorly. That's not surprising.
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This article has been all over Twitter, the internet. I don't care about games dating back to 1990. I live in 2014, and the product on Thursday nights has been terrible, that can't be debated.
Here's the thing, I consume as much NFL football as anyone I know. When this game was 24-0, I turned it off. You know why? Because all Thursday night games have been blowouts. As a consumer of the NFL, I no longer wanted to invest in the product this evening. That's a problem.
The game ended close, I turned it back on with 6 mins to go, and it ended very poorly. That's not surprising.
It used a bunch of data to reduce outliers, that's why that is done. If you watch that much football, you should know better not to turn it off in the first quarter.
It was a good game. Thursday games are essentially no different than any other. The data we used today did not go back to 1990, I think just last 5 years and the results were similar.
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It used a bunch of data to reduce outliers, that's why that is done. If you watch that much football, you should know better not to turn it off in the first quarter.
It was a good game. Thursday games are essentially no different than any other. The data we used today did not go back to 1990, I think just last 5 years and the results were similar.
What about for just this season?
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It used a bunch of data to reduce outliers, that's why that is done. If you watch that much football, you should know better not to turn it off in the first quarter.
It was a good game. Thursday games are essentially no different than any other. The data we used today did not go back to 1990, I think just last 5 years and the results were similar.
I'm a pretty smart guy, and I'm fairly good at spotting trends. If a game is 24-0 after one quarter, and the margin of victory on Thurs nights in 2014 is 29 points...see the math I did there?
If you want to argue this year's slate of Thursday night's games has been good, which is where you're leaning, then you're making a stupid argument. Which was more exciting and thrilling for ya, the exciting Falcons 56-14 win, or the riveting Giants 45-10 win?
Who is this "we" you keep talking about? I guess I'm going Bernstein on you here, but I must have missed the thread where you're personally contributing on a television show. I'll look for Jaime in the DP and Eisen show credits tomorrow, thanks.
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What about for just this season?
Didn't analyze just this year, mostly because there were only 5 data points which is very small. We looked at the last 5 years, numbers virtually identical. Small sample sizes can be very problematic for obvious reasons. I'm sure someone can do the work without much trouble. Thursday games have been played for a long time, statistically on the aggregate they are essentially no different than Sunday or Monday games.
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I'm a pretty smart guy, and I'm fairly good at spotting trends. If a game is 24-0 after one quarter, and the margin of victory on Thurs nights in 2014 is 29 points...see the math I did there?
If you want to argue this year's slate of Thursday night's games has been good, which is where you're leaning, then you're making a stupid argument. Which was more exciting and thrilling for ya, the exciting Falcons 56-14 win, or the riveting Giants 45-10 win?
Who is this "we" you keep talking about? I guess I'm going Bernstein on you here, but I must have missed the thread where you're personally contributing on a television show. I'll look for Jaime in the DP and Eisen show credits tomorrow, thanks.
That's cool, look for me between 9:30 and 10:30am PST tomorrow on Eisen show in the background, but the camera will pick up. No credits are on the show, but whatever. Thanks
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That's cool, look for me between 9:30 and 10:30am PST tomorrow on Eisen show in the background, but the camera will pick up. No credits are on the show, but whatever. Thanks
Cool, I'll make sure to DVR it right away. Words can't express how exciting this is.
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Cool, I'll make sure to DVR it right away. Words can't express how exciting this is.
You were the one with the smarta$$ statement, but you got an answer you didn't expect....I'll waive to you. Maybe have Rich say something clever about the Bears in your honor.
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Here's the funny thing about statistics....they can be "telling the truth" but if the consumer doesn't feel it, what's the point? You can quote statistics about this years games on Thursday being no more blow outs than previous years, but if consumers don't believe it what's the point?
I've gotten to the point with the Thursday night games where I only turn them on in the 2nd half, if they are reasonably close. My impression is that generally Thursday night games are terrible especially as it gets later in the season, I don't think I'm even remotely alone in that belief.
And I won't even talk about how forcing players to play two games in 4.5 days refutes any lip service the NFL wants to give to player safety.
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Here's the funny thing about statistics....they can be "telling the truth" but if the consumer doesn't feel it, what's the point? You can quote statistics about this years games on Thursday being no more blow outs than previous years, but if consumers don't believe it what's the point?
I've gotten to the point with the Thursday night games where I only turn them on in the 2nd half, if they are reasonably close. My impression is that generally Thursday night games are terrible especially as it gets later in the season, I don't think I'm even remotely alone in that belief.
And I won't even talk about how forcing players to play two games in 4.5 days refutes any lip service the NFL wants to give to player safety.
Lots of people believe divorce is 50% in this country. Or any number of 1000's of other examples. I don't like NBA game, many share my views, many don't. You are correct, the consumer is going to do what they do, I'm merely pointing out the flawed reasoning that people are using or making it out like over time it is any different than any other NFL game.
Last I checked the PLAYERS had to approve playing on Thursday night in their CBA....why is that ignored? As a country we've gotten around the tube Thanksgiving Thursday to watch football for decades.....
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The game ended close, I turned it back on with 6 mins to go, and it ended very poorly. That's not surprising.
I haven't checked the trends but Deandre Hopkins has to be getting roasted on twitter for not even making an effort on that fumble.
Although after watching what happened to Johnny Knox I can understand why these receivers don't want to go diving at linemen.
Unrelated note:
What is the sentiment around the Bears regarding Mel Tucker? I was happy when they signed him, as I thought he was underrated in Jacksonville. But so far I am not really sure what to think.
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Here's the funny thing about statistics....they can be "telling the truth" but if the consumer doesn't feel it, what's the point? You can quote statistics about this years games on Thursday being no more blow outs than previous years, but if consumers don't believe it what's the point?
I've gotten to the point with the Thursday night games where I only turn them on in the 2nd half, if they are reasonably close. My impression is that generally Thursday night games are terrible especially as it gets later in the season, I don't think I'm even remotely alone in that belief.
And I won't even talk about how forcing players to play two games in 4.5 days refutes any lip service the NFL wants to give to player safety.
There are no statistics about just this year's games. Without looking though, I can almost guarantee this year's are terrible.
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Unrelated note:
What is the sentiment around the Bears regarding Mel Tucker? I was happy when they signed him, as I thought he was underrated in Jacksonville. But so far I am not really sure what to think.
Not a fan. Phil Simms mentioned this yesterday, but defenses that play zone and don't give the QB different looks just don't work in today's NFL.
Take a look at completion percentage. It used to be that 60% was considered good, 65% great. Well, currently 25 QBs have a completion percentage over 60% (including greats such as Hoyer, Tannehill, Fitzpatrick) and there are 14 QBs (almost half the league starters) over 65%. The QBs and WRs are just too good if they're not being pressured. That's my issue with Mel.
The Bears defense is extremely vanilla. Rush the front four, play zone behind. Well, if you do that, you're front four better be amazing, because QBs are way too smart these days. They know exactly where the holes in the zone are going to be.
The only advantage to this style of defense is forcing turnovers, because you should have a number of guys around the ball in a zone. But if the turnovers don't come (like the GB game), the defense is in trouble, because they have difficulties getting stops.
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I don't think Mel Tucker is a great defensive mind by any stretch, but the hope going into the year was that by investing in upgrading the defensive line, that they would be able to put pressure on the quarterback without needing to blitz. And that just isn't happening.
That being said, a defensive coordinator then needs to figure out how to get pressure and not simply do the same thing over and over again.
Fritz Shurmur used to say that if he couldn't get pressure with four...then he'd send five...then six...then seven. And if that didn't work he would rush three and hope for the best. The larger point is that in today's NFL, pressure is a must.
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You were the one with the smarta$$ statement, but you got an answer you didn't expect....I'll waive to you. Maybe have Rich say something clever about the Bears in your honor.
Sorry man, I apologize, I thought the sarcasm came through pretty strong there.
I. Don't. Care.
Self promote all you want, I don't care if you are Rich Eisen or taking his coffee orders. Has zero effect on my life, but hey, whatever gets you through the day.
Please waive to me. I'll have to wait 48 hours to get picked up then though.
Go ahead and have the last word, get it off your chest my man.
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Sorry man, I apologize, I thought the sarcasm came through pretty strong there.
I. Don't. Care. (http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8349/8228265693_e393b5e26b_m.jpg)
Self promote all you want, I don't care if you are Rich Eisen or taking his coffee orders. Has zero effect on my life, but hey, whatever gets you through the day.
Please waive to me. I'll have to wait 48 hours to get picked up then though.
Go ahead and have the last word, get it off your chest my man.
Since you are a Bears fan, I fixed it for you.
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Sorry man, I apologize, I thought the sarcasm came through pretty strong there.
I. Don't. Care.
Self promote all you want, I don't care if you are Rich Eisen or taking his coffee orders. Has zero effect on my life, but hey, whatever gets you through the day.
Please waive to me. I'll have to wait 48 hours to get picked up then though.
Go ahead and have the last word, get it off your chest my man.
Absolutely hilarious!
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Sweet, another terrible Thursday night game! Anytime you can significantly downgrade the quality of your product to the consumer for millions of dollars...ya gotta do it.
I have never really paid attention to Thursday night games except if the Packers or some team of interest is playing. If you don’t like football on Thursday nights, why don’t you just push the button on the remote and watch something else? No one is holding a gun to your head to watch. What good does bitching about it do? The games will be on Thursdays as long as people watch in numbers large enough that there is money to be made.
As far as the crappy games, how does the nfl know in advance that the games are going to suck. I would have never predicted all the blow outs looking at that schedule before the season.
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I have never really paid attention to Thursday night games except if the Packers or some team of interest is playing. If you don’t like football on Thursday nights, why don’t you just push the button on the remote and watch something else? No one is holding a gun to your head to watch. What good does bitching about it do? The games will be on Thursdays as long as people watch in numbers large enough that there is money to be made.
As far as the crappy games, how does the nfl know in advance that the games are going to suck. I would have never predicted all the blow outs looking at that schedule before the season.
I actually don't disagree with any of this. As a NFL consumer, I complain about it, because there is an easy solution to fix it. I'm fine with Thursday night football, but the product the NFL is presenting currently is nothing great. Add an additional bye week for every team (2 byes a year), start Thursday night games in Week 4, teams play Thurs night after coming off a bye week.
Plus, it's a message board. I have to bitch here...my wife is sick of me :-)
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I actually don't disagree with any of this. As a NFL consumer, I complain about it, because there is an easy solution to fix it. I'm fine with Thursday night football, but the product the NFL is presenting currently is nothing great. Add an additional bye week for every team (2 byes a year), start Thursday night games in Week 4, teams play Thurs night after coming off a bye week.
Plus, it's a message board. I have to bitch here...my wife is sick of me :-)
(Hear you on the wife thing.) I agree with playing on Thursdays coming off a bye week. That would it least take away the hypocrisy of saying you care about players and injuries, but then make them play on 3 days rest.
I don't think the quality of games would even make a difference for me. I just never bought into watching football on Thursdays unless it is Thanksgiving. Still it's all about the money.
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What night isn't the NFL on?
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I actually don't disagree with any of this. As a NFL consumer, I complain about it, because there is an easy solution to fix it. I'm fine with Thursday night football, but the product the NFL is presenting currently is nothing great. Add an additional bye week for every team (2 byes a year), start Thursday night games in Week 4, teams play Thurs night after coming off a bye week.
Yeah instead of an 18 game season, I think extending the season by another week and giving teams another bye is preferable. It's also a great solution for Thursday night football.
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Yeah instead of an 18 game season, I think extending the season by another week and giving teams another bye is preferable. It's also a great solution for Thursday night football.
And you could expand the season by an extra week and spread out the content so you didn't have so many games on weekend. What is the point of having more games than you can generate TV revenue for.
You could easily have 3 or 4 games for the early slate, 3 or 4 for the afternoon, 1 each for thursday, sunday and monday nights. That's 9-11 games for a weekend leaving the possibly for up to 12 teams on a bye or as little as 8. You could even extend the season an extra two weeks from where it is now. Move the SuperBowl to late February. Regular season games would end right around the time of college football playoffs/championships and then the NFL playoffs are all to themselves.
You improve player safety, you generate more revenue and you can get out of the hypocrisy vat they are wallowing in.
Any reason NOT to do it?
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And you could expand the season by an extra week and spread out the content so you didn't have so many games on weekend. What is the point of having more games than you can generate TV revenue for.
You could easily have 3 or 4 games for the early slate, 3 or 4 for the afternoon, 1 each for thursday, sunday and monday nights. That's 9-11 games for a weekend leaving the possibly for up to 12 teams on a bye or as little as 8. You could even extend the season an extra two weeks from where it is now. Move the SuperBowl to late February. Regular season games would end right around the time of college football playoffs/championships and then the NFL playoffs are all to themselves.
You improve player safety, you generate more revenue and you can get out of the hypocrisy vat they are wallowing in.
Any reason NOT to do it?
Makes too much sense. However, the owners will not agree to the expanded calendar season and extra bye week without the additional two games. They want the 18 game season.
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Makes too much sense. However, the owners will not agree to the expanded calendar season and extra bye week without the additional two games. They want the 18 game season.
I get that they want the 18 game season, but they aren't going to get that. The expanded calendar gets additional TV revenue....yes ticket revenue is unchanged, but I can't believe that would be a bigger driver.
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I get that they want the 18 game season, but they aren't going to get that. The expanded calendar gets additional TV revenue....yes ticket revenue is unchanged, but I can't believe that would be a bigger driver.
I'm with you. I just think the owners see the 18 game season/expanded calendar as more of a collective bargaining chip and (in a surprising move for this group) are willing to forgo some additional revenue to keep it.
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(http://media.giphy.com/media/wlP3dzD8gxnmo/giphy.gif)
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(http://media.giphy.com/media/wlP3dzD8gxnmo/giphy.gif)
Jay smiles?
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Jay smiles?
Mike Tice can make anyone smile.
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the Bears passed on Rodgers and took Cedric Benson @ #4 and anyone could have had Favre at the time
(winky face)
Who is going to sign him?
http://www.csnchicago.com/bears/cedric-benson-attempting-nfl-comeback
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Sorry man, I apologize, I thought the sarcasm came through pretty strong there.
I. Don't. Care.
Self promote all you want, I don't care if you are Rich Eisen or taking his coffee orders. Has zero effect on my life, but hey, whatever gets you through the day.
Please waive to me. I'll have to wait 48 hours to get picked up then though.
Go ahead and have the last word, get it off your chest my man.
You see to care, you keep responding....trying to get that same last word. LOL
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No Calvin Johnson, no Reggie Bush. Move your money to the Vikings.
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Packers D continues to impress.
Packers special teams continue to be a headache.
Mike McCarthy continues to be the best defense for Aaron Rodgers. (To his credit he called 2 great games in a row heading into this week. No surprise we put up nearly 80 points in those 2 games combined.)
No Calvin Johnson, no Reggie Bush. Move your money to the Vikings.
No Reggie Bush is addition by subtraction. Vikings still the Vikings. My lack of money is on the Lions.
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Surprised how little Cordarell is being used. Disapointing, week 1 they really found ways, nothing since.
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Maybe McCarthy will run this play action fake roll out to the right until Rodgers gets his head taken off. He's called it 4 or 5 times and I think the best thing that has happened is a 13 yard penalty for intentional grounding because by the time Rodgers carries out the fake and turns to roll out he has at least 2 defenders in his face.
Standard Packers unacceptable loss coming. Come out and roll through the first drive and then inexplicably set it on cruise control at 7-0.
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Thank you Joe Philbin
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Miami with the best Detroit Lion impression I have seen. Having Green Bay with a 4th and 10, clock running, and having to use a defensive time out, allowing Green Bay to actually get into their offense?!?!? Brilliant!
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I think Adams will beat him out. I haven't heard a lot of noise regarding Adams so far but I just have never been all that confident in Boykins.
Bingo. Adams is starting to find his way.
No Reggie Bush is addition by subtraction. Vikings still the Vikings. My lack of money is on the Lions.
Bingo again. Like Reggie Bush, the Vikings ain't no good (doesn't matter who's playing quarterback for them).
Standard Packers unacceptable loss coming. Come out and roll through the first drive and then inexplicably set it on cruise control at 7-0.
Not bingo thanks to Joe Philbin. Listened to Mike McCarthy a little too well in his time at GB apparently. Packers 1 and 2 CBs are out for the game, 3rd and 5ish with 2:53 to play and he runs the ball to set up a punt. It's not like there were 53 seconds left where you take a timeout with 15 seconds left in the game and make GB field a punt with 10 seconds left, there's still 2:04 plus the 2 minute warning left. Awful call.
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In other news, the Teddy Bridgewater express train to Consensus-ville was derailed today.
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In other news, the Teddy Bridgewater express train to Consensus-ville was derailed today.
Derailed by Golden Taint and company.
Ya, I just wanted to get in the ND dig.
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It wasn't Golden Tate. It was the Lion's D-line overmatching the Vikings O-line.
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Ya, I know. Just wanted to make fun of a domer.
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Looks like we're getting "good" Jay today. Play calling has been excellent as well. Back-up LBs have done their job - which is about as good as the starters have done. They've also put a few good hits on the Falcons' WRs.
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Hmmm...
Cowboys look for real this year. I mean...really for real.
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Bears are the most bipolar team in the NFL. They either need to keep winning or losing so I don't have to keep hope.
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Ya, I know. Just wanted to make fun of a domer.
Theo Riddick is also on the team.
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Bears are the most bipolar team in the NFL. They either need to keep winning or losing so I don't have to keep hope.
I guess it depends what your hopes are. Playoffs? You can probably keep your hopes up for that for now. Go to a Super Bowl? Don't get your hopes up for that.
Hmmm...
Cowboys look for real this year. I mean...really for real.
We'll see come December when Tony Romo remembers he's Tony Romo.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/the-league-nfl-breast-cancer_n_5977564.html
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I guess it depends what your hopes are. Playoffs? You can probably keep your hopes up for that for now. Go to a Super Bowl? Don't get your hopes up for that.
We'll see come December when Tony Romo remembers he's Tony Romo.
Romo's numbers are fine in December, problem is that the team he has played for the last umpteen years has sucked and he has had to carry them to often. He has a 90 rating in December.
Slightly dated article, but brings home the story well. http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december
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Romo's numbers are fine in December, problem is that the team he has played for the last umpteen years has sucked and he has had to carry them to often. He has a 90 rating in December.
Slightly dated article, but brings home the story well. http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december
The thing that blows my mind about the Cowboys... after last week Jerry said he would've fired the GM if he had one. Um, Jerry, maybe that means you should find a competent GM and that you shouldn't be running everything. It's really unbelievable.
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The thing that blows my mind about the Cowboys... after last week Jerry said he would've fired the GM if he had one. Um, Jerry, maybe that means you should find a competent GM and that you shouldn't be running everything. It's really unbelievable.
Yeah but it's his team and he can do what he wants. I think he is on a quest to show that Jimmy Johnson doesn't deserve the credit he gets for how the team performed 20 years ago. (But IMO the fact that it has taken 20 years should tell you something.)
IMO though he seems to at least be listening to his football people more. He isn't wasting $$$ on high priced free agents. He isn't making dumb trades for overrated players. He is building his lines through the draft. (Granted he had to be talked out of drafting Manziel.) That's what the best teams do these days.
I have to tell you something though. On Sunday night, Bob Costas said "A good Cowboys team is good for the NFL." What a bunch of horse-sh*t. This isn't baseball or basketball. The NFL would be just fine if the powerhouse teams were the Jaguars and the Lions.
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Broncos now America's team:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/1506/Default.aspx
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Broncos now America's team:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/mid/1508/ArticleId/1506/Default.aspx
IMO these polls are dumb, 1200+ people surveyed does not make America's team, esp. one with a 2-5 SB record
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IMO these polls are dumb, 1200+ people surveyed does not make America's team, esp. one with a 2-5 SB record
They're not really dumb, it's just showing the current bandwagon in America.
Also, the poll asked for two favorite teams, so Denver will pull votes with Peyton alone.
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IMO these polls are dumb, 1200+ people surveyed does not make America's team, esp. one with a 2-5 SB record
What does their superbowl record have to do with people liking them?
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success usually breeds fandom i.e. NY Yankees, LA Lakers, Seattle moving way up in that same poll
plus I always like unnatural carnal knowledgeing with teams that lost more than a few Super Bowls ala Vikings and Broncos
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The thing that blows my mind about the Cowboys... after last week Jerry said he would've fired the GM if he had one. Um, Jerry, maybe that means you should find a competent GM and that you shouldn't be running everything. It's really unbelievable.
Jerry has blown my mind for almost two decades. He'll ruin this year as well, but it gives some of us hope that maybe he will get Ebola (and survive) and the team can carry on with out him when he realizes he should focus on duties that are not GM related. And no, I don't hope he really gets Ebola, I would much rather the stripped lawsuit that was dropped yesterday went through and forced him out. I can dream.
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success usually breeds fandom i.e. NY Yankees, LA Lakers, Seattle moving way up in that same poll
plus I always like unnatural carnal knowledgeing with teams that lost more than a few Super Bowls ala Vikings and Broncos
Yes, but the Cowboys were #1 for the last 6 years in that poll and the last 18 years with the Cowboys have been brutal. So it doesn't always hold.
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NM
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Last night, the Jets became the first team in NFL history to run for 200 yards, hold the ball for 40 or more minutes, commit zero turnovers...and lose.
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Last night, the Jets became the first team in NFL history to run for 200 yards, hold the ball for 40 or more minutes, commit zero turnovers...and lose.
NYJ: 4 scoring drives in the first half: 43 plays, 4 FGs (two of which where inside 30 yards.)
NE: 3 scoring drives: 23 plays, 2 TDs and a FG
Gotta get the ball in the end zone.
(Edit: I know that isn't any new or earth shattering information.)
At least they didn't lose on a butt fumble, or like the Cardinals did 8 years ago yesterday.
http://youtu.be/SWmQbk5h86w (http://youtu.be/SWmQbk5h86w)
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NYJ: 4 scoring drives in the first half: 43 plays, 4 FGs (two of which where inside 30 yards.)
NE: 3 scoring drives: 23 plays, 2 TDs and a FG
Gotta get the ball in the end zone.
Must have been a blowout, aina?
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So...how's everybody doing?
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They're not really dumb, it's just showing the current bandwagon in America.
Also, the poll asked for two favorite teams, so Denver will pull votes with Peyton alone.
Those same 1200 might tell you that the Royals are America's team in baseball right now...
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So...how's everybody doing?
I'd be better if Sticky Shields and/or Tramon would be on the field Sunday. Now $cam can go off on the Packers defense on the ground and through the air.
Put the team on your back, Rodgers.
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I'd be better if Sticky Shields and/or Tramon would be on the field Sunday. Now $cam can go off on the Packers defense on the ground and through the air.
Put the team on your back, Rodgers.
Hayward and house will be just fine. In fact I like house better than shields right now. Watch for Matthews to have a big game. He has been taking a lot of crap in the media this week
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This is the exact type of quarterback that SMOKES Clay Matthews. No discipline whatsoever. House and Hayward are fine but there is no depth whatsoever. They'll be playing a lot of snaps and Hayward is much better covering the slot than out wide.
But I am now feeling much better long term with Percy Harvin being traded for a mid round pick. Thanks for putting the Pack in the Super Bowl, Seahawks. Wonder what he did wrong.
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This is the exact type of quarterback that SMOKES Clay Matthews. No discipline whatsoever. House and Hayward are fine but there is no depth whatsoever. They'll be playing a lot of snaps and Hayward is much better covering the slot than out wide.
But I am now feeling much better long term with Percy Harvin being traded for a mid round pick. Thanks for putting the Pack in the Super Bowl, Seahawks. Wonder what he did wrong.
They will put Hyde as nickel corner and bush in the dime. I would be concerned with bush but they will be fine
Just a hunch on Matthews we will see.
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Packers ROLLING.
Bears and Lions losses would be nice today.
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Bears defense making Ryan Tannehill look like Peyton Manning. Can't believe theyre still in this thing.
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Mel Tucker is terrible. Trestmans offense isn't what it's cracked up to be. Before people start blaming Cutler let's look at the rest of the team first. Absolutely awful coaching. I swear Dan Marino is suited up for the Dolphins.
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Mel Tucker is terrible. Trestmans offense isn't what it's cracked up to be. Before people start blaming Cutler let's look at the rest of the team first. Absolutely awful coaching. I swear Dan Marino is suited up for the Dolphins.
There has yet to be a coach/offensive coordinator that hasn't been horrible with Jay, and there have been a lot of different ones that Jay has gone through.
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DirectTV Sunday Ticket blackout rules are absurd. Local channel quit showing the Packers game because it is a blowout, but still can't watch the game on Sunday Ticket because of blackout rules.
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There has yet to be a coach/offensive coordinator that hasn't been horrible with Jay, and there have been a lot of different ones that Jay has gone through.
I'm not even dealing with your "better than thou" crap today. Time to watch doctor who.
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Bears 0-3 at home this year after today.
I'm not even dealing with your "better than thou" crap today.
Haha there's always an excuse. Jay's coordinators were changing every year so he couldn't succeed. Lovie was a clueless offensive coach so Jay couldn't succeed. Jay doesn't have offensive playmakers so Jay can't succeed. Now Jay has offensive players but the defense is too bad so Jay can't succeed. Trestaman is an offensive genius so Jay will be awesome. Jay still stinks but it's okay because he was still learning Trestaman's great offense. Jay will be better in the 2nd year of Trestaman's revolutionary offense, and Jay even grew up and matured a lot. Jay continues to suck so Trestaman's offense is a joke. Etc. etc. etc.
Coach Killer Jay.
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How about the Redskins going to Colt McCoy....3rd QB for the Redskins this year already.
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How about the Redskins going to Colt McCoy....3rd QB for the Redskins this year already.
Yeah that was pretty funny. Many people around the Skins want RG3 traded away to let Kirk Cousins get his chance. Careful what you wish for.
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Nothing good anywhere on the field for the Bears right now.
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Pete Carroll out-Pete Carrolled by Jeff Fisher today. Gimmick plays to win. Love seeing Carroll lose. I will never understand how a punting team can get so sold on a punt returner running to the opposite side of the field than where the punt is going. Shouldn't the punting team know where the punter will be punting the ball in a "coffin corner" situation? The Packers were dumb enough to let the Bears do it to them a few years back, only to have it called back on a penalty.
I really don't know what to think about this season. This year more than any other than I can think of it seems like there are no clear cut favorites. Seattle embarrasses Green Bay to open the season and has looked average at best since then (the Harvin situation doesn't help their cause). Green Bay looks awful the first 3 weeks of the season and have looked outstanding since (Miami is tough, on the road you take a last second win there). Carolina looks outstanding one week and awful the next. Bears same story. Saints and Falcons can look great at times but overall aren't very good. Dallas seems to be good but for one reason or another they don't scare me as a Packers fan one bit (although if Murray keeps going like he has been then I should be shaking). Arizona is good, but are they really? Is Philli?
Kind of the same story in the AFC. Denver is good. San Diego is playing well but I wouldn't be overly scared of them. Cinci looked incredible 3 weeks ago and now don't look very good. Baltimore is playing well now. New England is starting to find its way but they aren't that good. I'm not a believer in Indi, but they'll have a nice record courtesy of that division.
If I had to make a list of the top 5 teams in each division with my green and gold glasses on it would probably go like this at this point:
NFC
1) Packers
2) Eagles
3) Lions
4) 49ers
5) Cowboys
AFC
1) Broncos
2) Chargers
3) Patriots
4) Colts
5) Ravens?
To me the NFC is much deeper. Broncos may be the best team in the NFL right now but I have a hard time cutting down a top 5 in the NFC, while I have a hard time finding 5 really quality teams in the AFC. And I guarantee these "rankings" would change every week. Just a weird season.
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Nothing good anywhere on the field for the Bears right now.
And this:
A source tells ESPN that Brandon Marshall called out Jay Cutler following Sunday's loss to the Dolphins.
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How about the Redskins going to Colt McCoy....3rd QB for the Redskins this year already.
Aka: "Operation Vikings."
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Aka: "Operation Vikings."
"Big things brewing in the Twin Cities." Heh. That was cute.
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And this:
A source tells ESPN that Brandon Marshall called out Jay Cutler following Sunday's loss to the Dolphins.
Yea. Lots going on.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/11729610/brandon-marshall-chicago-bears-calls-loss-unacceptable
Interpret this specific part of Marshall's rant as you choose: "Same mistakes, same mistakes, same mistakes," Marshall said. "We've got to protect the football. We've got to protect the football. We've got to execute the game plan. We've got to adjust when things don't go as we saw on the film. We've got Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, Matt Forte. We've got a stud offensive line. We've got a great, great group of guys, and this is unacceptable. What did we put up, 14 points? Was it 14 points? That's unacceptable."
Hmm... good WRs, good TE, good RB, "stud" offensive line...
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Pete Carroll out-Pete Carrolled by Jeff Fisher today. Gimmick plays to win. Love seeing Carroll lose. I will never understand how a punting team can get so sold on a punt returner running to the opposite side of the field than where the punt is going. Shouldn't the punting team know where the punter will be punting the ball in a "coffin corner" situation? The Packers were dumb enough to let the Bears do it to them a few years back, only to have it called back on a penalty.
I really don't know what to think about this season. This year more than any other than I can think of it seems like there are no clear cut favorites. Seattle embarrasses Green Bay to open the season and has looked average at best since then (the Harvin situation doesn't help their cause). Green Bay looks awful the first 3 weeks of the season and have looked outstanding since (Miami is tough, on the road you take a last second win there). Carolina looks outstanding one week and awful the next. Bears same story. Saints and Falcons can look great at times but overall aren't very good. Dallas seems to be good but for one reason or another they don't scare me as a Packers fan one bit (although if Murray keeps going like he has been then I should be shaking). Arizona is good, but are they really? Is Philli?
Kind of the same story in the AFC. Denver is good. San Diego is playing well but I wouldn't be overly scared of them. Cinci looked incredible 3 weeks ago and now don't look very good. Baltimore is playing well now. New England is starting to find its way but they aren't that good. I'm not a believer in Indi, but they'll have a nice record courtesy of that division.
If I had to make a list of the top 5 teams in each division with my green and gold glasses on it would probably go like this at this point:
NFC
1) Packers
2) Eagles
3) Lions
4) 49ers
5) Cowboys
AFC
1) Broncos
2) Chargers
3) Patriots
4) Colts
5) Ravens?
To me the NFC is much deeper. Broncos may be the best team in the NFL right now but I have a hard time cutting down a top 5 in the NFC, while I have a hard time finding 5 really quality teams in the AFC. And I guarantee these "rankings" would change every week. Just a weird season.
Cowboys are the best team in football right now. Packers can obviously beat them, but that power running game, combined with their weapons on the outside, and I think you'd have to say they are top of the heap.
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I'm not even dealing with your "better than thou" crap today. Time to watch doctor who.
But it is true. It's amazing how many head coaches, offensive coordinators, quarterback coaches and receivers Cutler has gone through.
To Cutler's backers -- a dwindling group -- it's never his fault.
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Pete Carroll out-Pete Carrolled by Jeff Fisher today. Gimmick plays to win. Love seeing Carroll lose. I will never understand how a punting team can get so sold on a punt returner running to the opposite side of the field than where the punt is going. Shouldn't the punting team know where the punter will be punting the ball in a "coffin corner" situation? The Packers were dumb enough to let the Bears do it to them a few years back, only to have it called back on a penalty.
I really don't know what to think about this season. This year more than any other than I can think of it seems like there are no clear cut favorites. Seattle embarrasses Green Bay to open the season and has looked average at best since then (the Harvin situation doesn't help their cause). Green Bay looks awful the first 3 weeks of the season and have looked outstanding since (Miami is tough, on the road you take a last second win there). Carolina looks outstanding one week and awful the next. Bears same story. Saints and Falcons can look great at times but overall aren't very good. Dallas seems to be good but for one reason or another they don't scare me as a Packers fan one bit (although if Murray keeps going like he has been then I should be shaking). Arizona is good, but are they really? Is Philli?
Kind of the same story in the AFC. Denver is good. San Diego is playing well but I wouldn't be overly scared of them. Cinci looked incredible 3 weeks ago and now don't look very good. Baltimore is playing well now. New England is starting to find its way but they aren't that good. I'm not a believer in Indi, but they'll have a nice record courtesy of that division.
If I had to make a list of the top 5 teams in each division with my green and gold glasses on it would probably go like this at this point:
NFC
1) Packers
2) Eagles
3) Lions
4) 49ers
5) Cowboys
AFC
1) Broncos
2) Chargers
3) Patriots
4) Colts
5) Ravens?
To me the NFC is much deeper. Broncos may be the best team in the NFL right now but I have a hard time cutting down a top 5 in the NFC, while I have a hard time finding 5 really quality teams in the AFC. And I guarantee these "rankings" would change every week. Just a weird season.
Interesting list. Mine would be a lot different in the NFC. I'm not a buyer of the Lions at all. Still think Seahawks will get it together. As much as I love the Cowboys, they would be #2 in the NFC for me and #3 or #4 overall today, with plenty of room to go either way.
NFC
Packers
Cowboys (defense still isn't good, but the running game is helping the team tremendously to keep defense off field)
Eagles
Cardinals
49ers
AFC
Broncos
Indy
Baltimore
Chargers
New England
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But it is true. It's amazing how many head coaches, offensive coordinators, quarterback coaches and receivers Cutler has gone through.
To Cutler's backers -- a dwindling group -- it's never his fault.
Serious question.. to you, or Wades or whomever.. can you find me one singular person who has ever said it's NEVER Cutler's fault?
As a lifelong Bears fan, I have been a Cutler supporter. But I also recognize the guy isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. In Chicago (I can't talk at all about Denver), we have had a lot of crappy coaches/staffs in the last 25 years, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Again, that's not removing all fault from Cutler (when he's been here), but it's acknowledging the truth about the recent history of the Bears organization.
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It all comes down to ONE issue with Jay: Ball Security
Hard to tell if he lacks the talent/brains to quit turning the ball over or whether he doesn't care.
But in the long run, it really doesn't matter.
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It all comes down to ONE issue with Jay: Ball Security
Hard to tell if he lacks the talent/brains to quit turning the ball over or whether he doesn't care.
But in the long run, it really doesn't matter.
Its more than just ball security. Andrew Luck has the same number of interceptions as Cutler and no one is mistaking Luck for Cutler. Favre consistently threw interceptions, but he is considered one of the all time greats. Some QB's have "it" and some do not.
I heard several callers on Chicago sports radio last night complaining about Cutlers lack of fire and intensity. The host said that is not true, but maybe Jay just isn't that good. That may be true.
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Luck and Favre helped themselves because they had decent personalities that made them likable. Jay is a prick. And that's OK.
There are times he looks really good and there are times he looks awful. Does he have a good enough rapport with his receivers? Do they would out enough in the off-season? I don't know.
One other thing I have to wonder about is the surface at Soldier Field. Would a better playing surface help the them click more on offense?
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Interesting list. Mine would be a lot different in the NFC. I'm not a buyer of the Lions at all. Still think Seahawks will get it together. As much as I love the Cowboys, they would be #2 in the NFC for me and #3 or #4 overall today, with plenty of room to go either way.
NFC
Packers
Cowboys (defense still isn't good, but the running game is helping the team tremendously to keep defense off field)
Eagles
Cardinals
49ers
AFC
Broncos
Indy
Baltimore
Chargers
New England
That's a good point. And of course the 9ers go and make me look like an idiot last night (then again, the Broncos do that to a lot of teams). I think my rankings for best team as of right now are a lot different from my rankings of teams I would least like to see the Packers have to go up against in the Playoffs. Best team/playing the best right now probably looks like (through my green and gold glasses):
NFC:
1) Packers
2) Cowboys
3) Eagles
4) Lions
5) Cardinals
AFC:
1) Broncos
2) Chargers?
3) Colts?
4) Patriots?
5) Ravens?
(Can probably swap any of 2-5 in any order)
Who I'd least like to see the Packers play in the Playoffs?
AFC:
1) Seahawks
2) Cardinals
3) Lions
4) Cowboys
5) Eagles
AFC:
1) Broncos
2) Patriots
3) Chargers
4) Colts
5) Bengals
The teams that scare me the most are teams that can get to the passer defensively, don't turn the ball over, and can control the clock. Seahawks still can do that but are a lot less scary offensively without Harvin (even though his numbers weren't great, he's still always a threat that the defense has to account for on every play). Stafford and Romo make their teams a lot less scary to play because they're always susceptible to the turnover.
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Luck and Favre helped themselves because they had decent personalities that made them likable. Jay is a prick. And that's OK.
There are times he looks really good and there are times he looks awful. Does he have a good enough rapport with his receivers? Do they would out enough in the off-season? I don't know.
One other thing I have to wonder about is the surface at Soldier Field. Would a better playing surface help the them click more on offense?
Personality has nothing to do with it. If Cutler had a winning percentage even close to Favre or Luck, no one would care less about his personality. There are a lot of pricks that win (see Belicheck, Bill)
Now if you are saying Cutler can't relate to or inspire his teammates then I might buy that.
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Problem with Dallas remains their defense. No pass rush at all....terrible pass rush.
Their schedule, 27th in the league right now. They have zero wins over teams with a winning record through the 7th game of the season (yes, they have beaten teams that had a winning record at the time). The only team they played that has a winning record still, they lost to....the 49ers.
Upcoming games against the Colts, Eagles twice, Arizona, will show how good the Cowboys truly are.
I'd take the Packers and Broncos over them easily at this point.
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Problem with Dallas remains their defense. No pass rush at all....terrible pass rush.
Their schedule, 27th in the league right now. They have zero wins over teams with a winning record through the 7th game of the season (yes, they have beaten teams that had a winning record at the time). The only team they played that has a winning record still, they lost to....the 49ers.
Upcoming games against the Colts, Eagles twice, Arizona, will show how good the Cowboys truly are.
I'd take the Packers and Broncos over them easily at this point.
A win at Seattle is a big win, as is a win against New Orleans, not so much the wins, but how they won those games. The Cowboys are for real and this from a life long Cowboy hater.
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Its more than just ball security. Andrew Luck has the same number of interceptions as Cutler and no one is mistaking Luck for Cutler. Favre consistently threw interceptions, but he is considered one of the all time greats. Some QB's have "it" and some do not.
I heard several callers on Chicago sports radio last night complaining about Cutlers lack of fire and intensity. The host said that is not true, but maybe Jay just isn't that good. That may be true.
I'm a Cutler apologist, I'll admit that, but I will also fully say when he didn't play well. Yesterday, he didn't play well. However, what was also interesting about your point about him and Luck having the same number of INTs, for whatever reason, everytime the Bears turn it over, INT or fumble, the opponent is capitalizing. That's the frustrating thing about this team, they are always on the razors edge. Look at the Carolina game, Cutler was playing great, things were going well, all of a sudden the D falls apart, Cutler throws a pick and the D can't get a stop, and its an epic collapse.
You look at Cutler's numbers on the year, they aren't bad, actually on pace to set career highs in TDs, completion percentage, QB rating, and maybe yards, but every mistake he's made has just been amplified. Thats the difference with alot of QBs, not everyone is a Manning or Rodgers with freakish accuracy and near perfect discipline, but it also helps to have a team that will bounce back. I don't know if its on Trestman, or Mel Tucker, or Cutler for not being a better leader, but thats what it means when people say its not all Cutler's fault. Not that he's absent from blame, cause nobody with any sense would say he is, but to say this team doesn't have severe issues beyond him is also unfair. They have all the weapons on offense, but Trestman seems to overthink himself and get too cute way too often.
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Serious question.. to you, or Wades or whomever.. can you find me one singular person who has ever said it's NEVER Cutler's fault?
As a lifelong Bears fan, I have been a Cutler supporter. But I also recognize the guy isn't perfect, never has been and never will be. In Chicago (I can't talk at all about Denver), we have had a lot of crappy coaches/staffs in the last 25 years, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Again, that's not removing all fault from Cutler (when he's been here), but it's acknowledging the truth about the recent history of the Bears organization.
I was guilty of using hyperbole; sorry about that. All I meant was that he has a lot of apologists who tend to blame others around him more than blaming him. And if that's what I meant, that's what I should have said.
My bottom line with Cutler:
Of big-money, big-reputation QBs, Cutler ranks quite low on the list of those I would trust to deliver in a must-win game. He picks freakishly wrong times to make outlandishly idiotic decisions, often undermining his team.
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I'm a Cutler apologist, I'll admit that, but I will also fully say when he didn't play well. Yesterday, he didn't play well. However, what was also interesting about your point about him and Luck having the same number of INTs, for whatever reason, everytime the Bears turn it over, INT or fumble, the opponent is capitalizing. That's the frustrating thing about this team, they are always on the razors edge. Look at the Carolina game, Cutler was playing great, things were going well, all of a sudden the D falls apart, Cutler throws a pick and the D can't get a stop, and its an epic collapse.
You look at Cutler's numbers on the year, they aren't bad, actually on pace to set career highs in TDs, completion percentage, QB rating, and maybe yards, but every mistake he's made has just been amplified. Thats the difference with alot of QBs, not everyone is a Manning or Rodgers with freakish accuracy and near perfect discipline, but it also helps to have a team that will bounce back. I don't know if its on Trestman, or Mel Tucker, or Cutler for not being a better leader, but thats what it means when people say its not all Cutler's fault. Not that he's absent from blame, cause nobody with any sense would say he is, but to say this team doesn't have severe issues beyond him is also unfair. They have all the weapons on offense, but Trestman seems to overthink himself and get too cute way too often.
You are correct, it is more than just the quarterback.
However, what about the years when Cutler had one of the best defenses in the league? Seems like there are always excuses for the guy. Offensive coordinator sucked, no weapons, coach sucks, no defense. At what point do you say, maybe its Cutlers fault. Some players are leaders and make their team better because of or in spite of them, others just are not.
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I'm saying his personality means that people crap on him, while they let other quarterbacks who toss interceptions (like Luck and Favre) off the hook.
Favre won 61% of his games as a starter. Cutler has won 54%. Not significantly different. But they are treated completely different, in many ways because of Cutler's demeanor.
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I brought this up a couple weeks ago, but once the wheels fell off for the Bears, it was going to be interesting to see how they reacted. There's a lot of issues internally there right now. From what I've been able to gather, a lot of people on defense don't have faith in the coaching staff. On offense, there's finger pointing going on every direction. I don't think Trestman can work through the issues that exist. I don't think he'll be fired, at least not this offseason. Say what you will about Lovie, the locker room had a lot of respect for him. That same respect doesn't exist now.
The job Marinelli is doing in Dallas is remarkable. I know he can't win coach of the year, but to me, that's been probably the most impressive unit in football, considering where they came from.
I don't think it's a coincidence that (probably) the 3 best teams in football have arguably the 3 best and healthiest offensive lines (Dallas, Green Bay, Denver).
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I'm pretty sure that there is a much higher percentage of defensive Packer players (during Favre and Rodgers), defensive Indy players (during Manning and Luck) that had confidence that if they did get the ball back they were going to win. I'm also sure the defensive Bears players do not have the same confidence in Cutler. He just does not seem to be able to win when he is behind.
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A win at Seattle is a big win, as is a win against New Orleans, not so much the wins, but how they won those games. The Cowboys are for real and this from a life long Cowboy hater.
Maybe it is my bias of watching this team for 40 years that has me wavering. The offense is tremendous right now. The defense, without a pass rush and suspect corners, is going to struggle, IMO, against quality offenses. At least until proven otherwise. Let's see how the Pokes do against Philly, Arizona and the Colts. If they can split those that will say something.
Green Bay, Denver are in another class in my opinion, but everyone has holes....Denver has the fewest this year...GB has plenty, as does Dallas, Indy, Baltimore,Philly, etc.
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I'm saying his personality means that people crap on him, while they let other quarterbacks who toss interceptions (like Luck and Favre) off the hook.
Favre won 61% of his games as a starter. Cutler has won 54%. Not significantly different. But they are treated completely different, in many ways because of Cutler's demeanor.
Well see, that’s where I disagree with you. The winning percentages are drastically different when you are talking over 10 years of playing, in Favres case 16.
I think personality, fire, intensity, whatever you want to call it matters on the field when you are a quarterback. I believe Cutler’s demeanor hurts his team on the field. However, winning trumps all. If Cutler were a prick and winning more consistently his personality wouldn’t be an issue. On the other hand I am sure someone like Tebow is a hell of a nice guy, but can’t win consistently in the NFL. Cutler doesn’t take crap because of his personality, he takes crap because he doesn’t win just like Favre or whatever “likeable quarterback” would take crap if they lost.
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I brought this up a couple weeks ago, but once the wheels fell off for the Bears, it was going to be interesting to see how they reacted. There's a lot of issues internally there right now. From what I've been able to gather, a lot of people on defense don't have faith in the coaching staff. On offense, there's finger pointing going on every direction. I don't think Trestman can work through the issues that exist. I don't think he'll be fired, at least not this offseason. Say what you will about Lovie, the locker room had a lot of respect for him. That same respect doesn't exist now.
The job Marinelli is doing in Dallas is remarkable. I know he can't win coach of the year, but to me, that's been probably the most impressive unit in football, considering where they came from.
I don't think it's a coincidence that (probably) the 3 best teams in football have arguably the 3 best and healthiest offensive lines (Dallas, Green Bay, Denver).
Interesting. I think the O Line has done a great job in pass protection, but I wouldn't think of them as a top 3 line. Certainly above average, but they have not run blocked well (and Lacy just hasn't run as well either). Up until the Vikings game there were very few holes for Lacy to hit, and Lacy was hesitant to hit them when they were actually there. It has improved a bit since then, but the run blocking and the running overall still hasn't been what most were expecting/hoping.
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Let's see how the Pokes do against Philly, Arizona and the Colts. If they can split those that will say something.
If they can "split" 3 games there will have to be a tie, a very rare occurrence. Math continues to be a challenge for you.
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Interesting. I think the O Line has done a great job in pass protection, but I wouldn't think of them as a top 3 line. Certainly above average, but they have not run blocked well (and Lacy just hasn't run as well either). Up until the Vikings game there were very few holes for Lacy to hit, and Lacy was hesitant to hit them when they were actually there. It has improved a bit since then, but the run blocking and the running overall still hasn't been what most were expecting/hoping.
The Lions offensive line has done a TERRIBLE job in pass protection. Stafford has already been sacked nearly as many time as he was all of last season. The Lions offense has regressed. The reason they are 5-2 is that it turns out that Gunther Cunningham and the wide 9 set has a hindrance and not a help. Austin has the defensive front 7 punishing people this year.
Somehow, I read in Dillard's post that he was commending the Lions o-line. Mea Culpa. Time for remedial reading or new glasses.
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If they can "split" 3 games there will have to be a tie, a very rare occurrence. Math continues to be a challenge for you.
They play Philly twice.
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If they can "split" 3 games there will have to be a tie, a very rare occurrence. Math continues to be a challenge for you.
smh
Eagles game 1
Eagles game 2
Colts
Cardinals
TOTAL 4 games
Split...win 2 games, lose 2 games
Here's your chance at an apology....can you pull it off......
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smh
Eagles game 1
Eagles game 2
Colts
Cardinals
TOTAL 4 games
Split...win 2 games, lose 2 games
Here's your chance at an apology....can you pull it off......
Sorry, my mistake. Contrary to your routine and obnoxious misstatements on the subject, I have no problem admitting mistakes and I'm quick to do it. Use your search feature...
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Sorry, my mistake. Contrary to your routine and obnoxious misstatements on the subject, I have no problem admitting mistakes and I'm quick to do it. Use your search feature...
Search doesn't lie and it was you who was snarky and obnoxious on this one. I will remember this day always....like a photograph where time stands still.
(http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/630-kissing_the_war_goodbye.preview.jpg)
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Search doesn't lie and it was you who was snarky and obnoxious on this one. I will remember this day always....like a photograph where time stands still.
(http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/630-kissing_the_war_goodbye.preview.jpg)
Another nonsensical reply.
Look, I was factually, demonstrably and unequivocally WRONG. Just as you were factually, demonstrably and unequivocally WRONG when you said that MU hadn't recruited a player ranked as high as Henry Ellenson since Joe Wolf.
Difference? I admitted my mistake immediately. You wrote paragraph after paragraph after paragraph defending your mistake to the point of getting hysterical about it. When multiple posters agreed that you had simply made a factual misstatement and gently suggested that you man up, you railed at them, too.
I owned my mistake. You tried to twist yours to mean something that you hadn't originally said. That's intellectually dishonest. Stop insinuating things about me and look in the mirror. A little less self promotion, a little more self reflection. In time, you'll be happier. Have a nice day.
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Also should be said, that Cobb & Nelson are probably the best WR tandem in football.
Have to give Cobb a lot of credit, I thought two years ago he was going to become a superstar, and I know he got hurt last season, but I like how he's sort of redefined his game. In the red zone, he just finds ways to get open, really like how his game has evolved.
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For now. I hope to see what Tate and a healthy Megatron can do together.
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I'm saying his personality means that people crap on him, while they let other quarterbacks who toss interceptions (like Luck and Favre) off the hook.
Favre won 61% of his games as a starter. Cutler has won 54%. Not significantly different. But they are treated completely different, in many ways because of Cutler's demeanor.
Cutler is one of the many athletes who plays worse than his stats. (Conversely, there are many who are better than their stats. That's why the best stats don't always prevail.)
Favre and Cutler might be treated differently because of their demeanor, but I'm guessing they are treated differently by fans and the overall "football community" because of their results.
Cutler is in his ninth season in the league, his eighth as a full-time starter. He famously has only made the playoffs once and has just one postseason win in his career despite being surrounded by some pretty good offensive talent much of that time.
Favre won his first playoff game in his second season as an NFL starter. By the time he had completed seven full seasons, which is the case with Cutler right now, Favre was 9-5 in the playoffs, including victories in two NFC title games and a Super Bowl.
While Cutler is a Coach Killer, Favre made Mike Holmgren a superstar coach.
I don't know how Favre's regular-season stats compared with Cutler's over seven full seasons, nor do I care very much.
Every time Cutler is compared to Favre, the football gods frown.
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For now. I hope to see what Tate and a healthy Megatron can do together.
I love the Lions -4 this week. Early Sunday morning kick, in London, against a reeling Falcons team. Game feels like a 31-13 blowout.
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I'm only comparing them because someone brought up Favre when talking about Cutler's interceptions. Favre is by far superior.
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I love the Lions -4 this week. Early Sunday morning kick, in London, against a reeling Falcons team. Game feels like a 31-13 blowout.
As a lifelong Lions let me suggest that whenever you start to get that feeling, lie down until it goes away. And then bet the opposite.
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As a lifelong Lions let me suggest that whenever you start to get that feeling, lie down until it goes away. And then bet the opposite.
I'm overly excited for people to try to adjust their fantasy lineups at 10am Sunday morning, having no clue Lions/Falcons is already at the half.
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Also should be said, that Cobb & Nelson are probably the best WR tandem in football.
Have to give Cobb a lot of credit, I thought two years ago he was going to become a superstar, and I know he got hurt last season, but I like how he's sort of redefined his game. In the red zone, he just finds ways to get open, really like how his game has evolved.
Yes.
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I love the Lions -4 this week. Early Sunday morning kick, in London, against a reeling Falcons team. Game feels like a 31-13 blowout.
I think Mike Smith is the next coach fired, or at least should be. Talk about a team under performing it's talent year after year. He got away with it last year because of all the injuries, but I think he is generally a pretty terrible coach especially on game day. I think he is secretly trying to be the next Art Shell.
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I'm only comparing them because someone brought up Favre when talking about Cutler's interceptions. Favre is by far superior.
Fair enough.
I'd say a more reasonable comparison would be Favre's final 7 full seasons and Cutler's first 7 full seasons, as Favre got more careless with the football and was less "effectively wild," to steal a baseball term. And yet Favre usually still had better results when he was in his late-30s than Cutler did in his late-20s.
BTW, I am neither a Packers fan nor a Bears fan. I just like watching great QBs and wince at the sight of bad QBs.
Unfortunately for the Bears, Cutler isn't really a "bad" QB; if he were, they could give him a low salary and/or bench him when he stinks. But because he has great raw talent and is occasionally outstanding, he demands a 9-figure contract even as he delivers overall results one would expect from a mediocre (or worse) QB.
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I think Mike Smith is the next coach fired, or at least should be. Talk about a team under performing it's talent year after year. He got away with it last year because of all the injuries, but I think he is generally a pretty terrible coach especially on game day. I think he is secretly trying to be the next Art Shell.
I think their talent is overrated, and they haven't drafted all that well since Thomas Dimitroff took over for Rich McKay back in 2008.
For instance, trading five draft picks for Julio Jones back in 2011 was the height of stupidity. Jones is a talent no doubt, but you can get good receivers down at the bottom of the first round without sacrificing the depth that those picks can give you. Seriously, a 1st, 2nd and 4th in one draft, and a 1st and 4th in the next for Julio Jones?
This incompetence is masked by the fact that Cleveland did virtually nothing with these picks. (ie, they didn't pull off what Dallas did in the Herschel Walker trade.) I mean they used some of these, and other picks, to trade up for Trent Richardson.
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I think their talent is overrated, and they haven't drafted all that well when Thomas Dimitroff took over for Rich McKay back in 2008.
What talent? They have Ryan and Jones, that's it. Roddy White is an aging vet on the backside of his career. Same can be said for Stephen Jackson. Falcons may have the worst lines in football.
Agree on Dimitroff. His drafting and draft strategy has been poor.
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I was guilty of using hyperbole; sorry about that. All I meant was that he has a lot of apologists who tend to blame others around him more than blaming him. And if that's what I meant, that's what I should have said.
My bottom line with Cutler:
Of big-money, big-reputation QBs, Cutler ranks quite low on the list of those I would trust to deliver in a must-win game. He picks freakishly wrong times to make outlandishly idiotic decisions, often undermining his team.
I can not argue with his career numbers. I can not argue with his physical talent. I do believe he has the Fire and Grit taking a lot of hard hits and keeps coming back.
So what’s left? He seems to me to lacks the same Connections, other QB’s have with their teammates after a great play, his emotion is more like a workman reaction, without much of a team ship emotion. I wonder if this might be interrupted by his teammates as not having a full TEAM ALL IN Commitment. This guy has too many gifts to have the unsuccessful team career he has had to date! Something is missing.
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Jeff George II
Except Jeff reached the playoffs more often ;D
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Yea. Lots going on.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/11729610/brandon-marshall-chicago-bears-calls-loss-unacceptable
Interpret this specific part of Marshall's rant as you choose: "Same mistakes, same mistakes, same mistakes," Marshall said. "We've got to protect the football. We've got to protect the football. We've got to execute the game plan. We've got to adjust when things don't go as we saw on the film. We've got Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, Matt Forte. We've got a stud offensive line. We've got a great, great group of guys, and this is unacceptable. What did we put up, 14 points? Was it 14 points? That's unacceptable."
Hmm... good WRs, good TE, good RB, "stud" offensive line...
I wonder what comments Marshall will add to this on his Inside the NFL appearance this week
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I'm overly excited for people to try to adjust their fantasy lineups at 10am Sunday morning, having no clue Lions/Falcons is already at the half.
This game on national TV? Think I would be down to watch this in the AM.
Edit. Just checked it my local guide, it is.
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I can not argue with his career numbers. I can not argue with his physical talent. I do believe he has the Fire and Grit taking a lot of hard hits and keeps coming back.
So what’s left? He seems to me to lacks the same Connections, other QB’s have with their teammates after a great play, his emotion is more like a workman reaction, without much of a team ship emotion. I wonder if this might be interrupted by his teammates as not having a full TEAM ALL IN Commitment. This guy has too many gifts to have the unsuccessful team career he has had to date! Something is missing.
I guess something was missing in Denver, too.
Especially the year the Broncos needed only one win in the final three weeks to make the playoffs and then Cutler choked like a Cubbie.
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I knew Matthew McConaughey was a college football fan (Texas Longhorns), but had no idea he was such a beloved Redskins fan. Hard to grow up in Texas and be a Redskins fan. Has some interesting takes.
http://www.avclub.com/article/matthew-mcconaughey-defends-rom-coms-washington-re-210765
Big game this coming Monday night. I'm predicting the highest rated MNF game of the year in terms of tv ratings.
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I knew Matthew McConaughey was a college football fan (Texas Longhorns), but had no idea he was such a beloved Redskins fan. Hard to grow up in Texas and be a Redskins fan. Has some interesting takes.
http://www.avclub.com/article/matthew-mcconaughey-defends-rom-coms-washington-re-210765
Big game this coming Monday night. I'm predicting the highest rated MNF game of the year in terms of tv ratings.
Are you predicting that related to the name change or the fact that it's the only half decent Monday night match-up on the schedule all season?
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Michael Sam released.....
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Are you predicting that related to the name change or the fact that it's the only half decent Monday night match-up on the schedule all season?
I'm predicting that whenever the Cowboys play, the ratings are huge. I'm also predicting that the so called boycotts of the Redskins never materializes.
A non-issue. http://dal.scout.com/story/1471283-cowboys-jerry-redskins-name-a-non-issue?s=112
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Are you predicting that related to the name change or the fact that it's the only half decent Monday night match-up on the schedule all season?
Let me explain what Chicos is doing. Because the Redskins thread got shut down, and because his posts on that issue were deleted in this thread, he is now intentionally overusing the name to get attention.
He started this last Sunday, but no one took the bait.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41914.msg658118#msg658118
So my suggestion is to ignore him.
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Michael Sam released.....
gross
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gross
If it was on Thursday night, it would've been a blowout...
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If it was on Thursday night, it would've been a blowout...
This week's game is pretty juicy though.
Then again, the Broncos may make a blowout out of it.
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Jeff George II
Except Jeff reached the playoffs more often ;D
Actually, a really good comparison. Nicely done.
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I guess something was missing in Denver, too.
Especially the year the Broncos needed only one win in the final three weeks to make the playoffs and then Cutler choked like a Cubbie.
Your description of the word Choking might be
Right. But is he consistent in his Choking or inconsistent?
To me the Real question is what is the cause of his Chokes maybe its: 1) Lack of focus 2) Too much of a Gambler in critical plays. 3) Decision making…Too much self confidence in his own ability to succeed in situation where the odds are large against him. 4) Maybe it’s falling into the habit of playing Hero QB rather than throwing short safe passes and more sharing plays with the rest of his teammates.
I think “4” has a lot of merit. I think this is why Josh McCown with less talent was more successful than Cutler!
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Michael Sam released.....
Must be because he's gay, I'm really a badger fan?
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Must be because he's gay, I'm really a badger fan?
He was a distraction. I'm pretty sure the Cowboys would be undefeated without him.
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He was a distraction. I'm pretty sure the Cowboys would be undefeated without him.
My sources say they'd be 8-0 in their seven games had he not been distracting them.
And that the Rams are 2-4 because they're still distracted by his presence at training camp.
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I guess something was missing in Denver, too.
Especially the year the Broncos needed only one win in the final three weeks to make the playoffs and then Cutler choked like a Cubbie.
Along those lines...another thing to consider is that in the same system, with the same weapons, and the same coaches Josh McNown went 5-1. (And this is coming from a Bears fan - and now McNown is injured and probably never going to see the field unless McGlennon gets hurt)
I hope Jay can figure it out but looking at the equation whether it's Denver or Chicago there seems to be one common denominator.
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An NFL team released a player from the practice squad?!?!? Why, exactly, is this news?
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An NFL team released a player from the practice squad?!?!? Why, exactly, is this news?
because he and the team just got to London before this happened?
(or did you mean Sam?)
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An NFL team released a player from the practice squad?!?!? Why, exactly, is this news?
People love asking why is this news.
http://strongtakes.com/2014/10/michael-sam-cut-and-absolutely-no-one-cares/
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People love asking why is this news.
http://strongtakes.com/2014/10/michael-sam-cut-and-absolutely-no-one-cares/
So Sam is being treated just like any other football player would be treated? How can our media allow this to happen?
Seriously, this is a real sign of progress and maybe the next time or two, it won't even be newsworthy.
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I love the Lions -4 this week. Early Sunday morning kick, in London, against a reeling Falcons team. Game feels like a 31-13 blowout.
It makes me queasy to think that Detroit is a favorite, but Atlanta has had 5 OL's injured this year, including 4 starters. Matt Ryan cannot be looking forward to facing this pass rush with the JV team protecting him. So I see how Detroit can win, but I remember being 6-2 last year and then.....
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Along those lines...another thing to consider is that in the same system, with the same weapons, and the same coaches Josh McNown went 5-1. (And this is coming from a Bears fan - and now McNown is injured and probably never going to see the field unless McGlennon gets hurt)
I hope Jay can figure it out but looking at the equation whether it's Denver or Chicago there seems to be one common denominator.
I don't think the comparison is as straight-forward as you make it seem. Opponent/strength of schedule, team injuries, etc. all play a role as well.
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I don't think the comparison is as straight-forward as you make it seem. Opponent/strength of schedule, team injuries, etc. all play a role as well.
Sure, but what has remained constant is that in the NFL you simply can't afford to turn the ball over as much as Jay Cutler does. McCown didn't. I get it, the OLine is at fault and the wideouts are at fault and the D can't stop anyone and the O Coordinator sucks. But Jay still turns the ball over too much. I also get it, I'm just a "Jay hater." But Jay's own receiver is saying it. Maybe he's just a Jay hater too, I guess.
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It makes me queasy to think that Detroit is a favorite, but Atlanta has had 5 OL's injured this year, including 4 starters. Matt Ryan cannot be looking forward to facing this pass rush with the JV team protecting him. So I see how Detroit can win, but I remember being 6-2 last year and then.....
Atlanta is really bad. Both of their lines are not good. Matt Ryan outdoors, on the road, not good (check out his record in domes vs outdoors). Their tight ends are terrible, they have little to no pass rush and a poor secondary.
Combine that with the odd start time, and I just think bad things are going to happen to Atlanta on Sunday.
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I don't think the comparison is as straight-forward as you make it seem. Opponent/strength of schedule, team injuries, etc. all play a role as well.
Fair enough but Miami, Carolina, and Buffalo aren't exactly world beaters this year either.
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Fair enough but Miami, Carolina, and Buffalo aren't exactly world beaters this year either.
Apples to oranges. Cutler needs to be better, nobody argues that. And he's not helped a team that has a serious problem with turnover differential. But McCown comparisons are annoying cause not a single one of his wins were against a team with a winning record, except the GB game against a team that was trotting out Seneca Wallace and Scott Tolzien at QB.
And you may be right, but I would argue all 3 of those teams finish no worse than 8-8. I think the Bills and Panthers end up making the playoffs
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Along those lines...another thing to consider is that in the same system, with the same weapons, and the same coaches Josh McNown went 5-1. (And this is coming from a Bears fan - and now McNown is injured and probably never going to see the field unless McGlennon gets hurt)
I hope Jay can figure it out but looking at the equation whether it's Denver or Chicago there seems to be one common denominator.
Josh McCown actually went 3-2 as the starter, with a blowout loss to the 7-9 Rams and a killer OT loss against a 5-win Vikings team during which Trestman proved that he didn't fully trust McCown. He won games against 8-8 Baltimore (in a strange, sloppy, weather-delayed game), at GB in the game Rodgers got hurt (Seneca Wallace time!) and against a .500 Dallas team with a horrible D. Don't you think Cutler could have at least gone 3-2 in those 5?
Look, Cutler obviously needs to take better care of the football but let's not act like Josh McCown is the answer to the Bears' issues.
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Apples to oranges. Cutler needs to be better, nobody argues that. And he's not helped a team that has a serious problem with turnover differential. But McCown comparisons are annoying cause not a single one of his wins were against a team with a winning record, except the GB game against a team that was trotting out Seneca Wallace and Scott Tolzien at QB.
And you may be right, but I would argue all 3 of those teams finish no worse than 8-8. I think the Bills and Panthers end up making the playoffs
Disagreed on the Bills. I think they finish under .500 and miss the Playoffs. They really aren't that good. Defense is solid and have some weapons on offense but no quarterback, and that is huge in the NFL. They needed a last second comeback at home against the Vikings. I know BeeJay proclaimed that big things are brewing in MPLS this season, but the big things that are brewing are a big number of losses by big points. They are horrible.
And in my opinion, Carolina probably makes the Playoffs because their division is awful, but I think the Bills and the Dolphins are both better than them. Carolina really isn't a very good football team, they just happen to be in a terrible division (although I still think the Saints can run off some wins, which is why Sunday seems to be a dangerous game for the Pack...playing against a desperate Saints team on the road heading into their bye).
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:o
Urlacher: Jay Cutler hasn't produced
"Financially, he is one of the elite guys in the NFL. ... He just hasn't produced like an elite quarterback," Urlacher said.
"You look at the Bradys, the Mannings, the Rodgers, the Brees, those guys win every year, even with no one around them," Urlacher said. "Rodgers has no offensive line. He wins. [Tom] Brady has no receivers. He wins.
"And you look at Jay. He's got Brandon [Marshall], Alshon [Jeffery], Matt [Forte], this great offensive line, Martellus Bennett, and they can't seem to put it together, for some reason. I'm not sure if that's his fault, but for some reason, they just can't figure it out."
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:o
Urlacher: Jay Cutler hasn't produced
"Financially, he is one of the elite guys in the NFL. ... He just hasn't produced like an elite quarterback," Urlacher said.
"You look at the Bradys, the Mannings, the Rodgers, the Brees, those guys win every year, even with no one around them," Urlacher said. "Rodgers has no offensive line. He wins. [Tom] Brady has no receivers. He wins.
"And you look at Jay. He's got Brandon [Marshall], Alshon [Jeffery], Matt [Forte], this great offensive line, Martellus Bennett, and they can't seem to put it together, for some reason. I'm not sure if that's his fault, but for some reason, they just can't figure it out."
The man makes a point.
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The other night after countless references to the Packers, Bears, ARodg, Cutler, etc...Eddie Vedder donned a Packer jersey and closed out an absolutely epic set with a song just for Jay...
http://www.youtube.com/v/Ecl-m0dwRaM?version=3&hl=en_US
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I hope whatever happens, CBS never gets rid of Mike Carey. That guy is awesome, I love replay reviews on Thursday nights now.
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ho hum... another Thursday night blowout.
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ho hum... another Thursday night blowout.
Missed you the last two weeks.......of course tonight had the best team in the NFL playing at home so they are usually going to win that game handily.
Good to see Mike Carey has brought Dish back to watching Thursday night football...I was worried.
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Must be because he's gay, I'm really a badger fan?
All I care about is that he isn't very good right now. Undersized, not strong enough, and we need guys that can play. With as weak a pass rush as Dallas has, if he can't break into the lineup that doesn't bode well.
Wish the young man well. Dallas was the perfect team to go to, it's a circus 24/7 for them and everything is already a distraction, so adding Sam is basically business as usual...jus one distraction among 50 every week.
Personally, I blame Roger Goodell
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Missed you the last two weeks.......of course tonight had the best team in the NFL playing at home so they are usually going to win that game handily.
Good to see Mike Carey has brought Dish back to watching Thursday night football...I was worried.
That's because the last 2 weeks were closer games. 6 out of 8 however, have been significantly one-sided.
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:o
Urlacher: Jay Cutler hasn't produced
"Financially, he is one of the elite guys in the NFL. ... He just hasn't produced like an elite quarterback," Urlacher said.
"You look at the Bradys, the Mannings, the Rodgers, the Brees, those guys win every year, even with no one around them," Urlacher said. "Rodgers has no offensive line. He wins. [Tom] Brady has no receivers. He wins.
"And you look at Jay. He's got Brandon [Marshall], Alshon [Jeffery], Matt [Forte], this great offensive line, Martellus Bennett, and they can't seem to put it together, for some reason. I'm not sure if that's his fault, but for some reason, they just can't figure it out."
Though Urlacher pretty much stole the Bears' money at the end of his career, and was insulted that they "only" offered $2 million for one final season, he of course is right here.
Brady had just about zero support last season and still won. Great QBs find a way. Not that anyone with any brain ever compared Cutler to Brady or accused Cutler of being a great QB!
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Brady had just about zero support last season and still won. Great QBs find a way. Not that anyone with any brain ever compared Cutler to Brady or accused Cutler of being a great QB!
Those who negotiated his contract appear to have done just that.
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Missed you the last two weeks.......of course tonight had the best team in the NFL playing at home so they are usually going to win that game handily.
Good to see Mike Carey has brought Dish back to watching Thursday night football...I was worried.
That's cute! Your football prowess far exceeds my feeble pace, your concern is appreciated!
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Those who negotiated his contract appear to have done just that.
Again? He got paid market rate in a front loaded, team friendly deal. Its in line with guys like Stafford, Dalton, Rivers, and even Alex Smith.
People just need to take away Urlacher's mic. His jilted girlfriend schtick is getting really old.
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Ummm....no.
Rodgers - $61M guaranteed
Brady - $57guaranteed (actually $33M)
Manning - $58M guranateed
Cutler - $54M guaranteed
Stafford - $41M guaranteed
Dalton - $17M guaranteed
Rivers - $38M guaranteed
Smith - $45M guaranteed
Not nearly as relevant, but the 3-year APY's also very much in line with Rodgers, Brady, etc.
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Ummm....no.
Rodgers - $61M guaranteed
Brady - $57guaranteed (actually $33M)
Manning - $58M guranateed
Cutler - $54M guaranteed
Stafford - $41M guaranteed
Dalton - $17M guaranteed
Rivers - $38M guaranteed
Smith - $45M guaranteed
Not nearly as relevant, but the 3-year APY's also very much in line with Rodgers, Brady, etc.
Ssssshhhhh. You're just a Cutler hater/cheesehead. It's not a bad deal, right in line with what he should get, and he's not a bad quarterback.
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Ummm....no.
Rodgers - $61M guaranteed
Brady - $57guaranteed (actually $33M)
Manning - $58M guranateed
Cutler - $54M guaranteed
Stafford - $41M guaranteed
Dalton - $17M guaranteed
Rivers - $38M guaranteed
Smith - $45M guaranteed
Not nearly as relevant, but the 3-year APY's also very much in line with Rodgers, Brady, etc.
Matt Ryan - $59M guaranteed
Tony Romo - $55M guaranteed
Joe Flacco - $51M guaranteed
I'd put Cutler in the same class as those guys.
It's easy to look at the contract and say that Cutler is overpaid but the problem the Bears faced is that they didn't have any better options at QB, especially with Cutler coming off of the best statistical season of his career. The team is built to win now so drafting Bridgewater or Manziel to learn on the fly wasn't in the cards. The top QB FAs out there were the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Michael Vick and Mark Sanchez. Trading for an unproven Ryan Mallet wouldn't have been an upgrade. The Bears paid what they had to in order to have the best possible starting QB. If they hadn't given Cutler that contract then Houston, Tennessee (he lives in Nashville), Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa (Lovie!) or the Jets (Jay and Rex in NYC!) would have given him at least that much money, if not more. Did the Bears overpay for Cutler? Probably. But what would have been a better option?
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That's cute! Your football prowess far exceeds my feeble pace, your concern is appreciated!
Just hoping you are enjoying the product. My football prowess does not exceed your pace, it is good to see you were able to watch the game on Thursday, a good game in my opinion. Close at the half, SD had some chances to get back in it late it seems. Personally, I was unable to watch so I appreciate you doing it....had a community project where we were helping to build out a school playground.
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Matt Ryan - $59M guaranteed
Tony Romo - $55M guaranteed
Joe Flacco - $51M guaranteed
I'd put Cutler in the same class as those guys.
It's easy to look at the contract and say that Cutler is overpaid but the problem the Bears faced is that they didn't have any better options at QB, especially with Cutler coming off of the best statistical season of his career. The team is built to win now so drafting Bridgewater or Manziel to learn on the fly wasn't in the cards. The top QB FAs out there were the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Michael Vick and Mark Sanchez. Trading for an unproven Ryan Mallet wouldn't have been an upgrade. The Bears paid what they had to in order to have the best possible starting QB. If they hadn't given Cutler that contract then Houston, Tennessee (he lives in Nashville), Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa (Lovie!) or the Jets (Jay and Rex in NYC!) would have given him at least that much money, if not more. Did the Bears overpay for Cutler? Probably. But what would have been a better option?
They could have franchised him from year to year.
They would overpay, but limit their risk because they could walk away.
I actually kind of like Jay, but I can't quite figure out why he's not better, and why his teams don't win more. Maybe he really is Jeff George 2.0. We can all see the talent, but it never seems to create many wins.
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They could have franchised him from year to year.
They would overpay, but limit their risk because they could walk away.
I actually kind of like Jay, but I can't quite figure out why he's not better, and why his teams don't win more. Maybe he really is Jeff George 2.0. We can all see the talent, but it never seems to create many wins.
Brian Urlacher's critique -- that Cutler is "elite" only in terms of how much money he earns jibes with responses from 26 coaches and personnel evaluators polled in the offseason. None of the 26 placed Cutler in the first tier. Ten put him in the second tier. Sixteen put him in the third tier. Cutler came in 17th out of the 32 quarterbacks projected to start in Week 1. He currently ranks 13th out of 35 qualifying quarterbacks in Total QBR.
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They could have franchised him from year to year.
They would overpay, but limit their risk because they could walk away.
I actually kind of like Jay, but I can't quite figure out why he's not better, and why his teams don't win more. Maybe he really is Jeff George 2.0. We can all see the talent, but it never seems to create many wins.
That's a good point about the tag and the cap hit would be roughly what it is these first few years anyway. Although, it would also likely lead to a disgruntled QB and a potential hold-out. Players typically don't want to be franchise tagged.
Jeff George had a career winning percentage of .371 compared to Cutler's .531.
As a Chicago sports fan, Jay Cutler reminds me the most of Carlos Zambrano - tremendous amounts of raw talent but unable to consistently put it all together, prickly personality, divisive figure among his own team's fans, hated by opposing fans, just as likely to look like a HOFer as to self-destruct, too much talent for the team to let him go but not completely confident counting on him in a clutch game/situation. After these next 3 seasons, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Cutler had led the Bears to the SB or if he's out of the league completely.
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Brian Urlacher's critique -- that Cutler is "elite" only in terms of how much money he earns jibes with responses from 26 coaches and personnel evaluators polled in the offseason. None of the 26 placed Cutler in the first tier. Ten put him in the second tier. Sixteen put him in the third tier. Cutler came in 17th out of the 32 quarterbacks projected to start in Week 1. He currently ranks 13th out of 35 qualifying quarterbacks in Total QBR.
That I think is essentially the point. He's paid like a top 5 guy, but plays like a top 15 guy. Top 15 isn't necessarily bad. A top 15 guy may not often be the primary reason a team loses games, but a top 5 guy is most definitely the primary reason a team wins games.
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That's a good point about the tag and the cap hit would be roughly what it is these first few years anyway. Although, it would also likely lead to a disgruntled QB and a potential hold-out. Players typically don't want to be franchise tagged.
Jeff George had a career winning percentage of .371 compared to Cutler's .531.
As a Chicago sports fan, Jay Cutler reminds me the most of Carlos Zambrano - tremendous amounts of raw talent but unable to consistently put it all together, prickly personality, divisive figure among his own team's fans, hated by opposing fans, just as likely to look like a HOFer as to self-destruct, too much talent for the team to let him go but not completely confident counting on him in a clutch game/situation. After these next 3 seasons, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Cutler had led the Bears to the SB or if he's out of the league completely.
Ya, his demeanor makes him tough to love, but his arm makes him tough to leave.
I understand why a team would want him... but at this point, the guy is who he is. He's an above average QB with great physical talent, poor fundamentals, and prickly demeanor.
You can't pay him on potential anymore. That's where the Bears are caught. Tough spot.
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That's a good point about the tag and the cap hit would be roughly what it is these first few years anyway. Although, it would also likely lead to a disgruntled QB and a potential hold-out. Players typically don't want to be franchise tagged.
Jeff George had a career winning percentage of .371 compared to Cutler's .531.
As a Chicago sports fan, Jay Cutler reminds me the most of Carlos Zambrano - tremendous amounts of raw talent but unable to consistently put it all together, prickly personality, divisive figure among his own team's fans, hated by opposing fans, just as likely to look like a HOFer as to self-destruct, too much talent for the team to let him go but not completely confident counting on him in a clutch game/situation. After these next 3 seasons, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Cutler had led the Bears to the SB or if he's out of the league completely.
The Zambrano comparison is pretty good actually. I agree with everything you said other than the last sentence. I think it is very unlikely he is out of the NFL in 3 years, and I think it is far, far less likely that he leads a team to a Super Bowl. He's just not a guy that is going to do that. You can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win 3 or 4 games in a row against the toughest competition in the NFL. He is a guy who has the talent to lead a team over a Super Bowl contending team, but to do it 4 straight weeks (the Playoffs), will never happen.
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That I think is essentially the point. He's paid like a top 5 guy, but plays like a top 15 guy. Top 15 isn't necessarily bad. A top 15 guy may not often be the primary reason a team loses games, but a top 5 guy is most definitely the primary reason a team wins games.
Because of the timing of the end of his contract, and the other available QB options out there, he was going to be paid like a top 5 QB by someone. And, as pointed out already, he was the best QB option for the Bears right now.
Be objective and tell us what you think they should have done differently.
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Final Thursday night numbers in for CBS.
I'm guessing they and the NFL are quite pleased.
http://news.yahoo.com/big-audiences-cbs-thursday-night-nfl-games-204614403--spt.html
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Because of the timing of the end of his contract, and the other available QB options out there, he was going to be paid like a top 5 QB by someone. And, as pointed out already, he was the best QB option for the Bears right now.
Be objective and tell us what you think they should have done differently.
I think you made your point. But that’s in the rearview mirror. Going forward is the Only option we have is to ride this horse until he can’t run. What is there for Plans B.. C or do we just sit and stare? Anyone!
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The sun rose today. The sky is still blue.
That is all. Carry on.
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Because of the timing of the end of his contract, and the other available QB options out there, he was going to be paid like a top 5 QB by someone. And, as pointed out already, he was the best QB option for the Bears right now.
Be objective and tell us what you think they should have done differently.
Not saying I disagree with any of that. Franchise was an option, and frankly the one I thought they would use., but none of that really matters. Some are trying to say its not a bad contract, but no matter how or why they got there, it appears that it probably is. That's all.
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Brian Urlacher's critique -- that Cutler is "elite" only in terms of how much money he earns jibes with responses from 26 coaches and personnel evaluators polled in the offseason. None of the 26 placed Cutler in the first tier. Ten put him in the second tier. Sixteen put him in the third tier. Cutler came in 17th out of the 32 quarterbacks projected to start in Week 1. He currently ranks 13th out of 35 qualifying quarterbacks in Total QBR.
This is the perfect Jay Cutler synopsis.
He is just good enough to have to be paid, just good enough to have to keep, just good enough to have to start, just good enough to cost coaches their jobs and just good enough to drive fans crazy.
And not quite good enough to lead a team to the playoffs.
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Hub seems to have it right again...
http://www.chicagofootball.com/2014/10/24/hub-arkush-chicago-bears-gm-phil-emery-calls-jay-cutler-elite/ab8bl74/?page=2 (http://www.chicagofootball.com/2014/10/24/hub-arkush-chicago-bears-gm-phil-emery-calls-jay-cutler-elite/ab8bl74/?page=2)
Have to admit, I kinda forgot about what they gave up in the trade as well...couple that with the fat contract, and there is plenty of legit criticism for Emery.
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As a lifelong Lions let me suggest that whenever you start to get that feeling, lie down until it goes away. And then bet the opposite.
Same old Lions.
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As soon as that Mosley news broke yesterday, I worried about the Lions. I figured one of these teams would no show, picked wrong one.
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So the Seahawks may trade Marshawn Lynch. Makes perfect sense to trade a back like him right now. He will never be more valuable in that regard.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11767085/seattle-seahawks-tire-marshawn-lynch
But I found this interesting.
"Any "envy" directed toward Wilson in the locker room is more aligned with quarterback dynamics, including the fact the star quarterback has major marketing endorsements, sources said.
Wilson was asked by the organization if he could limit some of his endorsements but they were all filmed during the offseason and his CBA-driven base salary of $662,000 is about half of what backup Tarvaris Jackson makes."
So the players are upset at Wilson and his endorsements? He is a Super Bowl winning quarterback! And the club asked him to limit those endorsements? Very odd.
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So the players are upset at Wilson and his endorsements? He is a Super Bowl winning quarterback! And the club asked him to limit those endorsements? Very odd.
If you cut off the bellow part of the article as you did, I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion. Not sure why you would do that, as it Seems to me it is saying the exact opposite...
Some of Wilson's income footed the bill to fly his receivers to California for offseason workouts when they were not allowed on facility grounds. Otherwise, in-season, team sources said that he's all football, except for the time he spends at Seattle's Children Hospital on Tuesdays. The so-called divided locker room is very much overstated, sources said.
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If you cut off the bellow part of the article as you did, I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion. Not sure why you would do that, as it Seems to me it is saying the exact opposite...
Some of Wilson's income footed the bill to fly his receivers to California for offseason workouts when they were not allowed on facility grounds. Otherwise, in-season, team sources said that he's all football, except for the time he spends at Seattle's Children Hospital on Tuesdays. The so-called divided locker room is very much overstated, sources said.
I don't think that was there when I quoted it. It looks as though it was updated just a minute or so after my post.
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On every account, one of the all time dumbest finishes to a game, by both teams.
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On every account, one of the all time dumbest finishes to a game, by both teams.
Ridiculous mis-management by Atlanta. And then Lions got lucky even though they had plenty of time to make that FG shorter.
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Agreed. The Falcons out-Lioned the Lions. Surreal. Hopefully, Detroit can get healthy in the next 2 weeks.
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Lots of hate on here for your NFC North leader Detroit Lions
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Lots of hate on here for your NFC North leader Detroit Lions
Don't really hate the Lions. I wanted them to lose because it helps Green Bay.
I think the Caldwell hire was good for them. Caldwell isn't a big xs and os guy, but I think his demeanor is exactly what they needed - less volatility.
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Lots of hate on here for your NFC North leader Detroit Lions
I've been a Lions fan for 40 years. 1 Playoff win in that time. I have seen ways to lose that I have never seen in games involving teams that aren't the Lions. I have learned that the most painful thing you can do as a Lions fan is to believe. They have found ways to win the last two games that are usually the ways they lose. That is not enough to make me believe.
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Anyone any closer to closing the book on this cutler discussion? #unacceptable
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I would be very surprised if Emery doesn't make coaching changes during this bye week. All three teams (offense, defense and special teams) are a mess.
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Blessing in disguise, if you're not going to the playoffs, best to be really bad.
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They can't bring trestman back next year, can they?
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They can't bring trestman back next year, can they?
Coach Killer Jay
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Coach Killer Jay
Bears Defense has given up 38 points today, FYI.
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Jay or no Jay, just appears to me trestman isn't up to the job.
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Bears Defense has given up 38 points today, FYI.
And the offense with these insane weapons has 15.
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And the offense with these insane weapons has 15.
Don't be football stupid.
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Don't be football stupid.
I get it, Jay is far from the only problem with this Chicago Bears team. It just seems to me that Jay continues to get passes while teams continue to go through coaches trying to find something that will work for him.
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That Houston sack dance/injury pretty much sums up the Bears defense today.
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That Houston sack dance/injury pretty much sums up the Bears defense today.
True.
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I get it, Jay is far from the only problem with this Chicago Bears team. It just seems to me that Jay continues to get passes while teams continue to go through coaches trying to find something that will work for him.
This, to me, was the first game where the Bears played awful where there was nothing glaringly bad about Cutler. Mike Periera tweeted that the fumble should have been called dead before it came loose and his interception was a throwaway play at the end of the game. Again the play calling was pretty suspect. The holding call on the initial drive was a killer. Just a really lackluster performance all around. Trestman has been found out, or he is overthinking himself cause he just can't get this offense in any sort of rhythm. Cutler is very good at evading the first rusher, but he was getting swallowed up immediately after. As soon as they put Forte in space, he was excelling, only for them to go away from it soon after.
The combination of injuries all over the defense and Mel Tucker's inability to adjust is abysmal to watch.
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The Lions could easily be 4-4. But if they had a real kicker all year, they probably would have beaten Buffalo, leaving them 7-1. Being the Lions, I still don't trust them.
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The Lions could easily be 4-4. But if they had a real kicker all year, they probably would have beaten Buffalo, leaving them 7-1. Being the Lions, I still don't trust them.
Lions are legit. They have to learn how to win and expect to win. That will come from Caldwell. They are a playoff team that can win a game in the playoffs. Not sure they are a Superbowl contender quite yet. Stafford would have to be less cutler like and more Rodgers like.
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Blessing in disguise, if you're not going to the playoffs, best to be really bad.
a blessing to be a crap football team cuz of a moderately high draft pick you can waste on a wr? Yikes, glad im not cheering for that squad
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a blessing to be a crap football team cuz of a moderately high draft pick you can waste on a wr? Yikes, glad im not cheering for that squad
Huh?
You'd rather be 7-9 than 4-12?
Dumb, real dumb.
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Huh?
You'd rather be 7-9 then 4-12?
Dumb, real dumb.
definitely rather be 7-9. At least that team would have some fight and character and not pack it in just to collect a paycheck
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Huh?
You'd rather be 7-9 than 4-12?
Dumb, real dumb.
Rather be 4-12 for sure. The problem is the bears are closer to 7-9 or 8-8.
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Skol Vikings! Tied with the Bears!!
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Skol Vikings! Tied with the Bears!!
Big things brewing!
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definitely rather be 7-9. At least that team would have some fight and character and not pack it in just to collect a paycheck
Umm, ok then.
NFL Hell = 8-8 or 7-9
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Umm, ok then.
NFL Hell = 8-8 or 7-9
I'd argue better than 4-12. 8 wins got us in the playoffs last year though. Agree to disagree!
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Cobb just doesn't give up on plays, hell of a year.
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A great call on the screen and then we throw a slant to Julius Peppers on 2nd and goal. Why? Why not just throw it to Jordy? Or Cobb? Or Adams? Or heck, get PTM's guy in there and throw him a slant. A slant? To Julius Peppers? What in the world? Then you follow it up with an onside kick? Ugh. Mike McCarthy is back.
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A great call on the screen and then we throw a slant to Julius Peppers on 2nd and goal. Why? Why not just throw it to Jordy? Or Cobb? Or Adams? Or heck, get PTM's guy in there and throw him a slant. A slant? To Julius Peppers? What in the world? Then you follow it up with an onside kick? Ugh. Mike McCarthy is back.
Seriously, are you still bitching about Mike McCarthy?
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Aaron says RELAX.
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Seriously, are you still bitching about Mike McCarthy?
So you aren't going to question putting a 34 year old lineman out wide and throwing a slant to him on 2nd and goal? Okay I guess...
I think I'd take a minimum of 35 players on the Packers roster alone to throw that pass to over Julius Peppers. But hey, what do I know?
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I think McCarthy is a very good head coach and offensive coordinator. So when you say "Ugh. Mike McCarthy is back," it is incredibly short-sighted.
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I think McCarthy is a very good head coach and offensive coordinator. So when you say "Ugh. Mike McCarthy is back," it is incredibly short-sighted.
Just don't understand why you have to overthink yourself. Like I said, you make a great call on the screen and set yourself up nicely. If you're going to throw a slant, why are you going to do it to a 34 year old defensive lineman? You have 2 top 5 receivers in the NFL plus a young guy who is starting to find his way. In fact I take back that overthinking statement, that's just plain not thinking at all.
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Personally, I thought the onside kick was a fine call.
Probable shootout, want to try to be aggressive, limit possessions for the other team, you only lose 30 yards of field position. Didn't work, but nothing wrong with the call.
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Just don't understand why you have to overthink yourself. Like I said, you make a great call on the screen and set yourself up nicely. If you're going to throw a slant, why are you going to do it to a 34 year old defensive lineman? You have 2 top 5 receivers in the NFL plus a young guy who is starting to find his way. In fact I take back that overthinking statement, that's just plain not thinking at all.
Even if you are right, McCarthy has more than gained the benefit of the doubt.
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I hate the "surprise" onside kick. Even if you catch them off guard a lot of things still have to go right. That was about as well executed as you can ask for and it still didn't work. Hardly ever works.
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Even if you are right, McCarthy has more than gained the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not saying I can call an NFL football game, but I am not going to give Mike McCarthy the benefit of the doubt on throwing a slant to Julius Peppers when you have Nelson, Cobb, Adams, and even Boykin, Rodgers, Quarless, Bostick available. It makes absolutely, positively zero sense to do that. If that makes me a stubborn know-nothing pessimist then so be it.
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Fine Wades whatever. Not worth going back and forth with you in football threads.
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McCarthy musta gotten coachin' advise from his good buddy, Crean, hey?
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McCarthy musta gotten coachin' advise from his good buddy, Crean, hey?
Hey.
Maybe this season we'll see Crean give his 7 foot defensive specialist (Peppers) the ball at the top of the key down by 3 with time running out while having the best 3 point shooter in the country (Nelson) and a couple other 3 point shooters (Cobb and Adams) out there on the other side of the court. Then we'll know they've been talking.
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Say what you will about Mac, but his QB was not pleased with him in the third quarter.
Right after the 4th and 1 give to Lacy, they showed him on the sidelines talking with Flynn. He shook his head and said, "That's what he f*cking calls on fourth and one."
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Say what you will about Mac, but his QB was not pleased with him in the third quarter.
Right after the 4th and 1 give to Lacy, they showed him on the sidelines talking with Flynn. He shook his head and said, "That's what he f*cking calls on fourth and one."
Much like the surprise onside kick I also hate that call regardless of who is doing it. 3rd and 1 it makes sense. 4th and 1 completely stacking the line and running it up the middle gets stuffed so often. I would love to see statistics on how successful that call is.
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Well, the defense took a giant leap backwards this week. Shields and Burnett will help but not against the run. Glad the Saints have dug themselves in an early season hole, can't see them getting home field in the Playoffs but if they did they'd be scary.
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Well, the defense took a giant leap backwards this week. Shields and Burnett will help but not against the run. Glad the Saints have dug themselves in an early season hole, can't see them getting home field in the Playoffs but if they did they'd be scary.
while we may look like a playoff team, we're a 1 and done playoff team with this current defense.
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while we may look like a playoff team, we're a 1 and done playoff team with this current defense.
Ehh. I don't know about that. Depends who we match up with. Offers didn't play great today but it'll be fine. Defense was very porous but the Saints have the ability to do that.
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while we may look like a playoff team, we're a 1 and done playoff team with this current defense.
Can't disagree with you. They seem to get completely annihilated by good offenses. It's alarming.
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They have been annihilated by two good teams on the road. (Seattle and NO) They are hardly a stellar defense, but let's not overplay it.
The good news is the schedule is very favorable. They have 5 of the last 8 at home, granted two of those games are against Philly and New England, and all 3 road games are winnable. Go 6-2 and they are likely in the playoffs. Go 7-1 and they likely win the division. I think both are possible.
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They have been annihilated by two good teams on the road. (Seattle and NO) They are hardly a stellar defense, but let's not overplay it.
If you look at it over the last few seasons, I don't think it's "overplaying" it.
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If you look at it over the last few seasons, I don't think it's "overplaying" it.
Obviously the last couple years sucked. But I think they have patched up some of the problems. Julius Peppers has been very good. Clinton-Dix is better than anything at safety since Collins. There is quality depth at cornerback, but hopefully Shields can get back.
They are a little too weak up the middle. Hawk and Lattimore need upgrades.
This is the best defense they have had since the Super Bowl year. And even then it was more of a "create turnovers" type of defense versus a "stop" defense.
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They have been annihilated by two good teams on the road. (Seattle and NO) They are hardly a stellar defense, but let's not overplay it.
The good news is the schedule is very favorable. They have 5 of the last 8 at home, granted two of those games are against Philly and New England, and all 3 road games are winnable. Go 6-2 and they are likely in the playoffs. Go 7-1 and they likely win the division. I think both are possible.
NFL fans are the most fickle of any fan. Win a couple in a row and their team is going to the super bowl. Lose a game and the sky is falling and the coach should be fired.
You are correct the Packers got their ass handed to them twice against really good teams and in really tough spots. Very unlikely that any team was going to win at Seattle on opening night of the season after their super bowl win. Last night was equally as tough. Playing at night against a very desperate and good team at a place where they seldom lose. At the beginning of the season, most people would pencil in losses for those two games. It’s tough to win on the road and as one of the best coaches in the league says, “it’s not who you play, it’s when you play them.”
11-5 is likely and 12-4 is possible. That should get the Packers at least a 3 or 4 seed for the playoffs. The defense is a concern, but the nfc field is not as daunting this year, at least so far. The packers are a legitimate super bowl contender, but there is a lot of football to be played. They will need to stay healthy and get on a roll late in the season.
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Agree with Sultan and Hairy here. Was the game last night concerning? Sure. But this year more than any other that I can remember is tough to take too much away from one week. Everybody other than really the Broncos and the bottom few teams in the league have looked both great and awful at points this season. One week a team can look like they are taking off and the next they get blown out. It's a weird season.
In my opinion, I don't see more than 1 team with 13+ wins in the NFC this season. Dallas/Philli play each other twice, Arizona has to play the Seahawks and 9ers twice this season, and the Lions will lose at least 3 more games this season. If the Packers win 12 wins they will probably end up being the 2 seed (means they probably beat Philli and Detroit at home). If the Pack stays healthy I like them as much as any other team in the NFC.
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This, to me, was the first game where the Bears played awful where there was nothing glaringly bad about Cutler. Mike Periera tweeted that the fumble should have been called dead before it came loose and his interception was a throwaway play at the end of the game.
Of course, two of his TDs and a huge chunk of his yards came after the Bears were down 45-7, so the INT helps balance the stat-padding.
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That Houston sack dance/injury pretty much sums up the Bears defense today.
I thought it was the perfect end to the week in which it came out that Houston was one of the guys "piling on in the locker room." Love to hear criticism of the offense and losing games from a guy that has done nothing this year, except sack the Pats backup QB 1 time.
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Of course, two of his TDs and a huge chunk of his yards came after the Bears were down 45-7, so the INT helps balance the stat-padding.
The Bears' problems are more on Trestman than on Cutler. The offense is incredibly predictable. DBs from both the Packers and Dolphins stated after the game that they knew what play was coming based on the Bears' formation. I'm not saying that Cutler deserves no blame. He definitely forces throws that aren't there and needs to protect the ball better in the pocket, but it's tough to play QB on any level when the D knows what's coming and DBs are consistently jumping routes and beating your receivers to a spot.
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The combination of injuries all over the defense and Mel Tucker's inability to adjust is abysmal to watch.
Tucker has been underwhelming with the Bears but the D's issues go beyond him. He adjusted and adjusted and adjusted in an effort to stop Gronkowski. The D showed different coverages and put different defenders on him but there's no one on the roster who could even slow him down. Mundy, Conte, McClellin, Sharpton - none of those guys would have much luck covering an average TE, much less Gronk. The D was completely helpless. There's only so much a coach can do when the team lacks talent.
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The Bears' problems are more on Trestman than on Cutler. The offense is incredibly predictable. DBs from both the Packers and Dolphins stated after the game that they knew what play was coming based on the Bears' formation. I'm not saying that Cutler deserves no blame. He definitely forces throws that aren't there and needs to protect the ball better in the pocket, but it's tough to play QB on any level when the D knows what's coming and DBs are consistently jumping routes and beating your receivers to a spot.
Trestman gets one more year to prove something but I agree. Beyond the X's and O's it's evident he doesn't have control of that locker room.
I was glad to move on from Lovie Smith but at least he had the respect of the guys in the locker room.
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I thought it was the perfect end to the week in which it came out that Houston was one of the guys "piling on in the locker room." Love to hear criticism of the offense and losing games from a guy that has done nothing this year, except sack the Pats backup QB 1 time.
And lamar's injury = torn ACL, out for the year. Yippie.
Slauson, torn pectoral..out for the year.
Sharpton, hamstring will miss at least GB game.
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Trestman gets one more year to prove something but I agree. Beyond the X's and O's it's evident he doesn't have control of that locker room.
I was glad to move on from Lovie Smith but at least he had the respect of the guys in the locker room.
Trestman is quirky.
He's the type of coach where if he wins, he's brilliant (maybe like Joe Maddon), but if he loses, everybody is going to want a more "traditional" coach (controls the locker room, rants at press conferences, gets in players faces, etc.)
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I don't know if Detroit is for real or just lucky. On the one hand, they have won the last two weeks getting nothing from Megatron, Bush, or their 3 top tight ends, losing Fairley for 3/4 of the Atlanta game. On the other hand, they have been recipients of two gifts that they took advantage of. Rogers hamstring limited his mobility and hampered GB's passing game. I hope he recovers quickly.
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And lamar's injury = torn ACL, out for the year. Yippie.
Slauson, torn pectoral..out for the year.
Sharpton, hamstring will miss at least GB game.
Maybe get to know this guy (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/10234586.jpeg)
Or maybe a top OL prospect.
http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/leonard_williams_808356.html
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Someone oughta advise him not to stick his finger in the wall socket, hey?
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The Lions are good, but not great. They're a Playoff team that can win a game or 2 in the Playoffs, but in my opinion aren't a Super Bowl contender. Not having Bush is addition by subtraction. Bell is a much, much better back, and the less touches Bush takes away from him the better off the Lions are. Johnson being out for so long may be a huge blessing in disguise in the long run for the Lions, as Tate has been forced to assert himself and Stafford now (you would at least think) will have more confidence in other options beyond just Johnson, which will then in turn also make Johnson better/make coverages gameplan for more than just Calvin.
Trestamen and his demeaner reminds me of Ronald Roenicke.
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The Lions are good, but not great. They're a Playoff team that can win a game or 2 in the Playoffs, but in my opinion aren't a Super Bowl contender. Not having Bush is addition by subtraction. Bell is a much, much better back, and the less touches Bush takes away from him the better off the Lions are. Johnson being out for so long may be a huge blessing in disguise in the long run for the Lions, as Tate has been forced to assert himself and Stafford now (you would at least think) will have more confidence in other options beyond just Johnson, which will then in turn also make Johnson better/make coverages gameplan for more than just Calvin.
Trestamen and his demeaner reminds me of Ronald Roenicke.
They could win 2 playoff games (i.e. lose in NFC Champ Game) but you don't consider them a SB contender? That's a very specific ceiling you have for the Lions ;)
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I don't have confidence that Trestman can lead this team out of the downward spiral. I don't believe the locker room respects him as an authority figure. On offense, Cutler is their leader (however you want to view that) and on defense, their leader Tillman is done, and Briggs is mentally checked out. It's a bad mix of some strong personalities who do not get along with one another, and a lack of faith in coaching to lead them out of this. I don't know where this team mentally goes from here, but I don't think it's going to be pretty.
As for the Lions, the couple of things they have going for them are their conference record (5-1) and a game in hand with the Pack. Lions actually have the most conference wins of any NFC team currently. Interesting 3 game stretch coming up for them, followed by 4 very winnable games, and then the Pack in the finale.
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Trestman gets one more year to prove something but I agree. Beyond the X's and O's it's evident he doesn't have control of that locker room.
I was glad to move on from Lovie Smith but at least he had the respect of the guys in the locker room.
Agree that it was time for Lovie to go but the Trestman hire was the wrong one. Not saying he's a bad coach necessarily, but he wasn't the right fit for an on-the-verge-but-window's-closing team.
In Lovie's last 3 seasons, the Bears went 11-5, 8-8 (1-5 w/o Cutler) and 10-6. They really weren't THAT far away from being contenders. While I'm normally opposed to tired coaching retreads, the Bears were in perfect position to bring in an established, well-respected coach who could potentially take them to that next level. Instead, they went with a career assistant who hadn't coached in the NFL since 2004. I would have loved to see what a guy like Andy Reid or Bruce Arians could have done with this team. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Jim Harbaugh can do starting next season.
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I don't have confidence that Trestman can lead this team out of the downward spiral. I don't believe the locker room respects him as an authority figure. On offense, Cutler is their leader (however you want to view that) and on defense, their leader Tillman is done, and Briggs is mentally checked out. It's a bad mix of some strong personalities who do not get along with one another, and a lack of faith in coaching to lead them out of this. I don't know where this team mentally goes from here, but I don't think it's going to be pretty.
As for the Lions, the couple of things they have going for them are their conference record (5-1) and a game in hand with the Pack. Lions actually have the most conference wins of any NFC team currently. Interesting 3 game stretch coming up for them, followed by 4 very winnable games, and then the Pack in the finale.
Do you think Tucker survives? I can't tell if he is a bad D coach, or simply a victim of a tired bunch of Def players.
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One more game this week
(http://news.bangthebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Free-NFL-Pick-Washington-Redskins-vs.-Dallas-Cowboys.jpg)
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Do you think Tucker survives? I can't tell if he is a bad D coach, or simply a victim of a tired bunch of Def players.
This is just my guess, but Trestman and Emery probably survive the season. The sword will have to fall on someone, and it'll probably be Tucker and DeCamillis. I'm not saying I think Trestman should survive the season if they finish something like 4-12, but just knowing the organization, I think both those guys survive.
Herein lies the problem...they're contractually and from a roster management standpoint, they're stuck in hell right now. The Cutler contract in and of itself isn't bad, it's market value. The problem is if you truly want to start over, you have to bottom out completely, and you have too many positions of need, too many above 30 players, and a coach who can't seem to manage.
Terrible drafting for years has been catching up with the Bears, and now it's really in their face.
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If they go 6-10 you have to get rid of Trestman. Would love to see Gruden coach the Bears. I said it last year that I wasn't a fan of the Trestman hire. I'm not gonna lie and say I wasn't excited about the offense last year but how much is that really due to trestman and how much of that can be attributed to how well the offensivery line played and Alshons break out season.
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If they go 6-10 you have to get rid of Trestman. Would love to see Gruden coach the Bears. I said it last year that I wasn't a fan of the Trestman hire. I'm not gonna lie and say I wasn't excited about the offense last year but how much is that really due to trestman and how much of that can be attributed to how well the offensivery line played and Alshons break out season.
The Bears biggest issue is the GM. If you can't draft well in today's NFL, you just can't win. The problem with someone like Gruden is that he is likely going to want to have more say in personnel than you want. I thought Emery was going to be good, but he has had A LOT of draft misses.
That is what needs to be fixed first and foremost.
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The Bears biggest issue is the GM. If you can't draft well in today's NFL, you just can't win. The problem with someone like Gruden is that he is likely going to want to have more say in personnel than you want. I thought Emery was going to be good, but he has had A LOT of draft misses.
That is what needs to be fixed first and foremost.
I wouldnt put all of the bad draft picks on Emery. In fact, Alshon, Mills, Long, and even McClellin (granted not first roud worthy) have been good to this point. Also, I wasnt a fan of Fuller but he has been good. Hes a rookie corner which is probably one of the most difficult positions to adjust to in the NFL. Even Ego and Sutton havent been awful and I still have hope for Vereen and Wilson. Angelo REALLY screwed the Bears in the draft. Forte is the only pick that is still relevant, at least that I can remember.
Granted all that being said, Emery hasnt been immune to questionable moves but thats nothing compared to Angelo. I dont see the Bears getting rid of Trestman either just for stability sake and to avoid an "I told you so" by Bears fans but its been a rough ride.
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Mills and Shea are not good, Mills is an ok backup, but if neither was on the roster next season, I'd be more than fine with it.
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Mills and Shea are not good, Mills is an ok backup, but if neither was on the roster next season, I'd be more than fine with it.
I have very few quarrels with Mills. Late round pick, still young and wayyyy better than Carimi and Williams combined.
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I have very few quarrels with Mills. Late round pick, still young and wayyyy better than Carimi and Williams combined.
We might be watching different things, but Mills has been really bad the last few weeks.
Just because Mills is better than Carimi and Williams...doesn't mean he's good. Bad is still bad.
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We might be watching different things, but Mills has been really bad the last few weeks.
Just because Mills is better than Carimi and Williams...doesn't mean he's good. Bad is still bad.
Few weeks as opposed to the past year and a half. With all of the injuries to the line this year, teams can send multiple guys at Mills because they know they can be successful with one on ones to the backups on the line.
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The Bears biggest issue is the GM. If you can't draft well in today's NFL, you just can't win. The problem with someone like Gruden is that he is likely going to want to have more say in personnel than you want. I thought Emery was going to be good, but he has had A LOT of draft misses.
That is what needs to be fixed first and foremost.
The problems with the team and draft go back to Angelo. So do we actually know trestman and emery are bad? What if they are good at their jobs, but were put in an unstable situation. Do you fire them now (too quick imo) or give them aachance to prove themselves?
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They could win 2 playoff games (i.e. lose in NFC Champ Game) but you don't consider them a SB contender? That's a very specific ceiling you have for the Lions ;)
Uhh, yes. Did anyone ever really believe the Bears were SB contenders the year the Packers won it? I didn't, but they were in the NFC Championship game.
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Uhh, yes. Did anyone ever really believe the Bears were SB contenders the year the Packers won it? I didn't, but they were in the NFC Championship game.
Well that's because you just hate everything bears and will never give them credit for anything.
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Uhh, yes. Did anyone ever really believe the Bears were SB contenders the year the Packers won it? I didn't, but they were in the NFC Championship game.
Of course they were Super Bowl contenders. They lost at home in the NFC Championship Game. Second best record in the conference.
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Cutler hasn't been seeing the field real well.
Also hasn't put advantageous balls up for Jeffrey or Marshall (although being on Revis island doesn't help).
Bears and Packers defense are atrocious. Welcome (again) to our world. Our d won't get fixed until we get a new S&C coach and someone who can gauge talent better. So frustrating we can't surround the best qb in the league with a competent defense going on a decade now.
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Cutler hasn't been seeing the field real well.
Also hasn't put advantageous balls up for Jeffrey or Marshall (although being on Revis island doesn't help).
Bears and Packers defense are atrocious. Welcome (again) to our world. Our d won't get fixed until we get a new S&C coach and someone who can gauge talent better. So frustrating we can't surround the best qb in the league with a competent defense going on a decade now.
How many teams would replace their current GM with Ted Thompson if given the option? Maybe all but four or five? He is routinely near the top of NFL GM rankings. (#2 by Sporting News earlier this year.)
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Not sure for what at this point beside riding the Rodger's wave. Nailed it on the Rodgers pick but besides that it seems to me he has failed to complement the best player in the league.
I've seen enough of our defense over the years to realize TT can't fix it. Looking at it realistically, TT will probably ride out the Rodgers success, and won't be touchable. I will have to live with only imagining how good we could be.
In a perfect world you hire Jim Harbaugh, I'd even be willing to give him personnel discretion. Unfortunately only 1 championship with the Michael Jordan of the NFL seems to sit ok with most.
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LOL, so you would hire a volatile head coach who hasn't won a Super Bowl to be your general manager, even though he isn't the GM where he is now, to replace your current Super Bowl winning GM? OK...
Aaron Rodgers isn't Michael Jordon and the NFL isn't the NBA. It is insanely more difficult to win the Super Bowl due to parity. Do you know how many current NFL GMs have won multiple Super Bowls? I count three. Belicheck, Newsome and Jerry Jones. Belicheck has had the shortest tenure of the three BTW. There are only three others who have won one Super Bowl besides Thompson. Loomis, Reese and Schnieder.
Thompson is a very good general manager.
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Put it this way. Ron Wolf is worshiped around Green Bay. He is in the Packers Hall of Fame and a finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
And he won as many Super Bowls as Ted Thompson. With the previous version of "Michael Jordan."
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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree as they say. There's no denying most will blindly follow TT after 2010. I've seen Harbaugh put together great defense and o line play as well as having a top notch S&C program. With him we could be a dynasty. TT hasn't exactly been a wizard in the drafting/personnel department.
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How many teams would replace their current GM with Ted Thompson if given the option? Maybe all but four or five? He is routinely near the top of NFL GM rankings. (#2 by Sporting News earlier this year.)
<<<Hand Raised>>>
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That did not look good for Romo.
Pokes are in a really tough spot here. They really could use a very very fast diagnosis because the trade deadline is hours away. They have about $4 mil in cap space available.
Ironically, their best option is probably sitting on the bench opposite them tonight.
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That did not look good for Romo.
Pokes are in a really tough spot here. They really could use a very very fast diagnosis because the trade deadline is hours away. They have about $4 mil in cap space available.
Ironically, their best option is probably sitting on the bench opposite them tonight.
Cutler is free next weekend...
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The other ironic thing is losing Romo is only going to increase Murray's workload.
If Romo is hurt, that's a huge loss.
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Well that's because you just hate everything bears and will never give them credit for anything.
Something like that.
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That did not look good for Romo.
Pokes are in a really tough spot here. They really could use a very very fast diagnosis because the trade deadline is hours away. They have about $4 mil in cap space available.
Ironically, their best option is probably sitting on the bench opposite them tonight.
I can't believe he came back in that game. Curious to see if he misses time later, as he was not moving very well. Honestly Weeden was probably the better choice at that point. Romo just about handed the game to Washington twice on that final drive in regulation. And that may be the first time i recall Jerry coming out of the suite in a long time. (Granted I don't watch a ton of Cowboy games.)
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The other ironic thing is losing Romo is only going to increase Murray's workload.
If Romo is hurt, that's a huge loss.
Romo is fine.
Was at a restaurant in Denver with clients so missed most of the game, but then we moved to the bar with the closed captioning on. Saw Weeden in there and did a WTF, but before anything else figured it was his back...which it was. They got away from the run in OT....dumb but not surprising. Defense is still not good.
Seeing the word Redskins pop up on the CC on the screen about 10 times just the 4th quarter and OT made me smile.
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Seeing the word Redskins pop up on the CC on the screen about 10 times just the 4th quarter and OT made me smile.
Imagine if Ni$$er, handsome person or kike had popped up on the screen. You could have literally laughed out loud.
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You two better not get this frackin thread locked. Take your back and forth crap to PMs.
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Imagine if Ni$$er, handsome person or kike had popped up on the screen. You could have literally laughed out loud.
What stupendously dumb analogy, but not surprising coming from you. In fact, expected.
Better call the Walt Disney Company, Lenny, they didn't see it the way you did and on their ESPN broadcast last night with graphics, words, etc they just don't line up with you. This is a company that is VERY image conscious, I can say from experience as I worked for them for 2 years and have dealt with them for the last 15 years. Very image conscious. Might want to get on the phone, write a letter, due a sit in, hunger strike maybe.
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What stupendously dumb analogy, but not surprising coming from you. In fact, expected.
Better call the Walt Disney Company, Lenny, they didn't see it the way you did and on their ESPN broadcast last night with graphics, words, etc they just don't line up with you. This is a company that is VERY image conscious, I can say from experience as I worked for them for 2 years and have dealt with them for the last 15 years. Very image conscious. Might want to get on the phone, write a letter, due a sit in, hunger strike maybe.
Due one, dood!
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Was at a restaurant in Denver with clients so missed most of the game, but then we moved to the bar with the closed captioning on. Saw Weeden in there and did a WTF, but before anything else figured it was his back...which it was. They got away from the run in OT....dumb but not surprising. Defense is still not good.
Does your back ever get sore from your continuous patting of it for mundane reasons?
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Anybody else hear the story about the missing Broncos fan?
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Due one, dood!
Dew
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I knew Matthew McConaughey was a college football fan (Texas Longhorns), but had no idea he was such a beloved Redskins fan. Hard to grow up in Texas and be a Redskins fan. Has some interesting takes.
http://www.avclub.com/article/matthew-mcconaughey-defends-rom-coms-washington-re-210765
Big game this coming Monday night. I'm predicting the highest rated MNF game of the year in terms of tv ratings.
:D
Highest of the season, as predicted....actually highest of any MNF game since 2010.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/10/28/redskins-cowboys-delivers-espns-highest-monday-night-football-overnight-rating-since-2010/320280/
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Anybody else hear the story about the missing Broncos fan?
I was in Denver the last few days and this was a conversation at dinner last night. Pretty crazy, a lot of speculation last night about whether this guy planned all of this, or did was he abducted, etc. Pretty crazy way to go out, but rather brilliant as well. There has to be video out there somewhere in the stadium that captures him somewhere I would think.
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Does your back ever get sore from your continuous patting of it for mundane reasons?
Nope. Do you ever get tired of posting mundane comments on posts you consider mundane in which mundane reasons are used?
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I was in Denver the last few days and this was a conversation at dinner last night. Pretty crazy, a lot of speculation last night about whether this guy planned all of this, or did was he abducted, etc. Pretty crazy way to go out, but rather brilliant as well. There has to be video out there somewhere in the stadium that captures him somewhere I would think.
My only idea was that he planned it. If he was abducted somebody would've either heard him seeking help or being dragged out of an NFL stadium. There aren't many places a fan can go during a live football game where other people aren't. Not to mention what middle aged man goes to an NFL game without not only a cell phone, but without any kind of credit card? Just a weird story.
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My only idea was that he planned it. If he was abducted somebody would've either heard him seeking help or being dragged out of an NFL stadium. There aren't many places a fan can go during a live football game where other people aren't. Not to mention what middle aged man goes to an NFL game without not only a cell phone, but without any kind of credit card? Just a weird story.
He was found safe tonight, in Pueblo, CO. That's a pretty good drive from Denver, around 2 hours or so.
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LOL. Now that's taking a loss hard, but considering the opponent....
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/27170354/video-cowboys-fan-destroys-house-after-teams-loss-to-redskins
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Nope. Do you ever get tired of posting mundane comments on posts you consider mundane in which mundane reasons are used?
The funniest part is that he thinks HE is interesting and WE are impressed.
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Redskins' bus crashes in Minneapolis this morning (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahead-of-protest-washington-redskins-team-bus-crashes/).
Protesters are out. SKOL VIKINGS!
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I guarantee the Lions will not lose today.
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Redskins' bus crashes in Minneapolis this morning (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahead-of-protest-washington-redskins-team-bus-crashes/).
Protesters are out. SKOL VIKINGS!
Big things brewing in the Twin Cities baby!
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I was wrong. The Lions have suffered a loss today. Reason for DT being sent home from London.
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2014/11/report_cj_mosley_caught_smokin.html#incart_more_sports
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Redskins' bus crashes in Minneapolis this morning (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahead-of-protest-washington-redskins-team-bus-crashes/).
Protesters are out. SKOL VIKINGS!
7-9 is still possible!
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The funniest part is that he thinks HE is interesting and WE are impressed.
The funniest part is how much some of you obsess over someone you've never met that posts on an internet forum.
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7-9 is still possible!
To be fair, if you said:
- AP wouldn't play after week 2
- Bridgewater starts 10+ games
I think 7-9 is relatively successful.
Teddy B. looks decent so far.
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The funniest part is how much some of you obsess over someone you've never met that posts on an internet forum.
He is on ignore until he apologizes via a PM about comments he made about my wife, but for some reason he apparently still responds to me. I have no idea why, I can't read it....so there is a great irony in what he is saying. Apparently he thinks I care what he writes and I so don't care that I block it. LOL.
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To be fair, if you said:
- AP wouldn't play after week 2
- Bridgewater starts 10+ games
I think 7-9 is relatively successful.
Teddy B. looks decent so far.
Fair points. Bridgewater will certainly be better than their last 1st round quarterback pick (at least Ponder's wife is nice to look at, though), but he's not someone who scares me very much, at least not yet.
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Fair points. Bridgewater will certainly be better than their last 1st round quarterback pick (at least Ponder's wife is nice to look at, though), but he's not someone who scares me very much, at least not yet.
Most QB's aren't very scary 6 games into their career.
BUT, it's still TBD if Teddy is the next Russell Wilson, or EJ Manual.
Right now, his stats look like Manual's, but he's made some nice reads and played well in the 4th Q yesterday.
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Mike McCarthy signed to extension. Rumor is that it is through 2018 to mirror Ted Thompson's.
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November 5th was the 25th anniversary of the Instant Replay Bears-GB game ;D
Referee Tom Dooley then spoke eight words that will go down in Packers-Bears lore: "After further review, we have a reversal: Touchdown!"
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/instant-replay-game-sealed-memorable-win-b99383902z1-281520041.html
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November 5th was the 25th anniversary of the Instant Replay Bears-GB game ;D
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/instant-replay-game-sealed-memorable-win-b99383902z1-281520041.html
And still wrong after all these years.
The oddest part about one of the most memorable Bears-Packers games in history is that it was a truly awful game with one controversial play at the end. If the officials had stuck with the correct call on the field, it would have been barely a footnote. Funny how we remember these "great" games that were anything but.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine the Bears stay within a point of GB this Sunday night...but at least Lance Briggs has all but he admitted that he's checked out. So the Bears got that goin' for 'em.
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And still wrong after all these years.
The oddest part about one of the most memorable Bears-Packers games in history is that it was a truly awful game with one controversial play at the end. If the officials had stuck with the correct call on the field, it would have been barely a footnote. Funny how we remember these "great" games that were anything but.
My memory is fuzzy... Was it a bad call because the ball was across the LOS "plane" while still in his hand, even though he didn't land beyond the LOS until he let go of the pass? I think the NFL changed that rule because of this right?
And yeah it was a bad game, but after watching the Packers getting their asses kicked by the Bears for nearly a decade, sometimes in humiliating fashion, I know I didn't really care. I still don't.
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if you watch the replay and still think that they got the call wrong I want some of what you're smoking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBXkQQofC90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-nB53aJN0
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Instant-replay-game/d47b3c09-9c97-4c61-9379-dfb6afa6646e
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if you watch the replay and still think that they got the call wrong I want some of what you're smoking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBXkQQofC90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-nB53aJN0
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Instant-replay-game/d47b3c09-9c97-4c61-9379-dfb6afa6646e
But I think they changed the rule after (or even because) of that game. I believe the rule used to be that the ball could not be in the quarterback's hand once it broke the plane of the LOS.
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But I think they changed the rule after (or even because) of that game. I believe the rule used to be that the ball could not be in the quarterback's hand once it broke the plane of the LOS.
The rule used to be that the ball could not cross the LOS before being thrown. After 1989, they changed it to be the passer's feet and later to both feet and the ball, I believe.
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The rule used to be that the ball could not cross the LOS before being thrown. After 1989, they changed it to be the passer's feet and later to both feet and the ball, I believe.
I *think* the rule is now if any part of the qb is behind the line, it's a legal play
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I *think* the rule is now if any part of the qb is behind the line, it's a legal play
Correct. In the Seattle-Washington game, I think, a couple weeks ago, Wilson was 90% of the way across the LOS, but was leaning backwards as he slowed up and the top parts of his shoulders stayed behind the LOS, so he was legally able to retreat and throw a pass.
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And still wrong after all these years.
The oddest part about one of the most memorable Bears-Packers games in history is that it was a truly awful game with one controversial play at the end. If the officials had stuck with the correct call on the field, it would have been barely a footnote. Funny how we remember these "great" games that were anything but.
Unfortunately, I can't imagine the Bears stay within a point of GB this Sunday night...but at least Lance Briggs has all but he admitted that he's checked out. So the Bears got that goin' for 'em.
Who cares. Spawned the definitive song for the rivalry. The Bears still suck!
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November 5th was the 25th anniversary of the Instant Replay Bears-GB game ;D
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/instant-replay-game-sealed-memorable-win-b99383902z1-281520041.html
This happened on the day after my brothers wedding.
All the aunts, uncles and cousins from Chicago were at my parents home eating brunch. It was fabulous.
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This Browns/Bengals game feels like it started 8 hours ago.
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Happy Bears victory weekend, folks! Some of these throws are absolutely hilarious...
http://vimeo.com/111183624
PS I really miss Nick Collins.
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Same ol' Lions. 3 minutes into the 2nd half and already 75 yards in penalties.
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Same old Lions on so many levels.
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Same old Lions on so many levels.
I do think they're a better team this year and I do think they make the Playoffs - heck, they've turned the tables and won some games in ways that they used to lose them, and they very well still may come back to win this game, but I do not buy into what a lot of people are saying in that they finally have "discipline" led by Caldwell. Down the road he may change the culture of this team, but you don't just come in and in year 1 you go from being known as a dirty team and making a ton of stupid penalties to being this perfectly mentally strong team. It takes time to change the culture of an organization, yet a lot of commentators want to say that with Caldwell the whole culture is different already.
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..and yet, somehow, they keep finding ways. I see two fundamental differences this year. 1. The wide 9 defensive line alignment stunk. The more traditional defensive line formation this year is working much better. 2. They believe they are going to find ways to win games, not lose them. Having seen so much bad football for so long, I probably am not going to believe in this team until they win a playoff game.
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..and yet, somehow, they keep finding ways. I see two fundamental differences this year. 1. The wide 9 defensive line alignment stunk. The more traditional defensive line formation this year is working much better. 2. They believe they are going to find ways to win games, not lose them. Having seen so much bad football for so long, I probably am not going to believe in this team until they win a playoff game.
Better coach.
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Who is this grotesque dog "singing" the NFL intro? Ick.
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Please, someone shoot Collinswoth.
Mac should do the color.
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Al Michels.....smarmy, unpatriotic prick.
"Oh, that was nice". Eff you Al.
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Love the play call. Well done McCarthy.
O line banged up but held up really well in pass protect that drive.
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Who is this grotesque dog "singing" the NFL intro? Ick.
Mike Fisher doesn't think so. He porked that stuff, aina?
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Well Cutler gets away with his first awful decision. They will come...
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Well Cutler gets away with his first awful decision. They will come...
And one play later it came.
Same old Jay. Absolutely comical.
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Thanks, Jay.
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Al Michels.....smarmy, unpatriotic prick.
"Oh, that was nice". Eff you Al.
do you believe in miracles? Yes!
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Thanks, Jay.
You are unbelievable. Completely insufferable. I have never disliked someone so much for someone I have never met.
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You are unbelievable. Completely insufferable. I have never disliked someone so much for someone I have never met.
Settle...settle...
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You are unbelievable. Completely insufferable. I have never disliked someone so much for someone I have never met.
If you're okay with those throws and this offense I'm not sure what to tell you.
There's an ignore button.
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I lied. This kid I know just said he hopes the Packers return the favor and break Cutlers collarbone. He's a bear fan too. That may be the most embarrassing thing I have ever heard. Completely disgusted by all Bears "fans"
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O line is completely dominating this.
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I'm not sure the Bears ever came to play this game. But if they did, they have 100% quit on both sides of the ball now. Wow.
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Ass kickin', hey? F*ckin' must be drownin' his sorrows, aina?
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I lied. This kid I know just said he hopes the Packers return the favor and break Cutlers collarbone. He's a bear fan too. That may be the most embarrassing thing I have ever heard. Completely disgusted by all Bears "fans"
As a Bears fan, we should all be embarrassed by this total lack of effort. Two weeks to prepare, and this is what shows up? It was obvious to any fan that the time to make coaching changes was during the bye week to shake things up...instead management circles the wagons and is completely shown up. Trestman lost his team weeks ago.
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As a Bears fan, we should all be embarrassed by this total lack of effort. Two weeks to prepare, and this is what shows up? It was obvious to any fan that the time to make coaching changes was during the bye week to shake things up...instead management circles the wagons and is completely shown up. Trestman lost his team weeks ago.
I hate firing coaches that early for the same reason I hate firing college coaches before they get a few recruiting classes in. At what point can you realistically evaluate a pro coach vs. college coach? Is there a different timeline?
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I hate firing coaches that early for the same reason I hate firing college coaches before they get a few recruiting classes in. At what point can you realistically evaluate a pro coach vs. college coach? Is there a different timeline?
The gm has to know if the coach lost his team. That certainly looks like the case with trestman. Wolf fired Rhodes after one season even though he knew he would take heat because he knew Rhodes had no respect from his players. You have to have a pair to be a good gm.
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As a Bears fan, we should all be embarrassed by this total lack of effort. Two weeks to prepare, and this is what shows up? It was obvious to any fan that the time to make coaching changes was during the bye week to shake things up...instead management circles the wagons and is completely shown up. Trestman lost his team weeks ago.
Trestman has been nothing short of awful this year.
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I hate firing coaches that early for the same reason I hate firing college coaches before they get a few recruiting classes in. At what point can you realistically evaluate a pro coach vs. college coach? Is there a different timeline?
Yeah, much different, especially when an 'offensive guru' has the horses Trestman has right now.
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So.... Wisconsin Lutheran plays football, too?
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I hate firing coaches that early for the same reason I hate firing college coaches before they get a few recruiting classes in. At what point can you realistically evaluate a pro coach vs. college coach? Is there a different timeline?
Yes. He sucks. They have regressed in the two years he has been coach. Emery should probably be gone too.
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Yes. He sucks. They have regressed in the two years he has been coach. Emery should probably be gone too.
Once the rest of the NFL made adjustments to his system after the fist half of last year they started to struggle. That combined with Trestman not adjusting whatsoever have made it a rough go.
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Yes. He sucks. They have regressed in the two years he has been coach. Emery should probably be gone too.
Eh. I can buy into firing Trestman. Not sure the rationale behind Emery other than the (now apparent) mistake of hiring Trestman.
If you go after Emery, when do upper level execs like Ted Phillips finally get held accountable for their decision making?
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Let Rodgers get to 600 and 10 and then call it a night for him.
Bears down.
Goodnight folks. And in all seriousness, go Dish and go Dish's son.
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The problem with Emery is that he hasn't drafted well, and he's FA signings have been pretty much bad. If the Halas family wants to launch Philips too, that's fine. But would you really want Emery picking your next coach if you are a Bears fan?
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I meant to post this link earlier this week. This is why I think McCarthy is just fine in Green Bay.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/05/emma-packers-always-know-whos-in-charge/
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I say the Bears should give Trestman a few more years.
Go Pack!
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The problem with Emery is that he hasn't drafted well, and he's FA signings have been pretty much bad. If the Halas family wants to launch Philips too, that's fine. But would you really want Emery picking your next coach if you are a Bears fan?
The drafting problems started long before Emery.
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The problem with Emery is that he hasn't drafted well, and he's FA signings have been pretty much bad. If the Halas family wants to launch Philips too, that's fine. But would you really want Emery picking your next coach if you are a Bears fan?
Eh. Too early to talk about this draft class. 2012 - Shea was a miss. Jeffrey is very good. Rest of that draft is crap. 2013 - Long is good. Bostic, Greene, Mills have had ups and downs.
Clearly he hasn't killed it in the draft. But I wouldn't say he's been much worse than average drafting either. FA's have only been necessary to fill gaps from the previous regime's abysmal drafting.
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The Bears are flocked until the elderly mccaskey's go the way of old man wirtz.
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How full of amphetamines is Clay Mathews tonight?
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The Bears are flocked until the elderly mccaskey's go the way of old man wirtz.
What influence does Virginia really have these days?
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How full of amphetamines is Clay Mathews tonight?
Rogers is the one using performance enhancers -- the Bears' secondary.
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How full of amphetamines is Clay Mathews tonight?
There it is! 48-7 and the first PED statement comes out. He's the only player ever to play football and use PEDs though...
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Moving Clay inside was a really good move, I thought. Wonder if it was just for tonight, or that's going to be the situation going forward.
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Serious question... although playing badly, it looks like the offense is still trying. The defense, however... Is there any chance that players would blow plays/quit to get a coach fired?
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How would you (could you?) know if the Bears' secondary was tanking a play?
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Well if they haven't been tanking already they need to now. Need trestman gone an a high draft pick.
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Trestman is gone after the season. Emery should go too. Tomorrow morning Mel Tucker should get his pink slip. Even without a whole lot of talent on D, the last 2 games have been unacceptable defensively. The players don't believe in this coaching staff and Trestman's offense is predictable to the point where I can recognize plays from my couch.
Serious question... although playing badly, it looks like the offense is still trying. The defense, however... Is there any chance that players would blow plays/quit to get a coach fired?
No. Absolutely ZERO chance. Players are playing for their next contracts. Looking bad on film and being part of a historically bad defense helps no one.
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Wayne larvae just said that bears' management/exec team hung around and met for over an hour after the game last night, so they're likely to do something today. Safe to assume Mel Tucker will probably not survive the day. Obviously more of a symbolic move at this point, but real changed clearly needed in the off season.
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I am not a knee-jerk "Fire the coach!" guy. But I have the same feeling about Trestman that I did about Jauron.
A decent guy with knowledge that can help a team as an assistant but in WAAAAAY over his head as a head coach.
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Not sure how you can support Emery at this point if you are a Bears fan. D is horrible and the offense is stuck with Jay for the next 3 years. Add in bad coaching hires and you start questioning what he did well for the Bears. It's good to be a Packers fan in this division.
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Where do you even start to fix this team? It's not like they are 1 or 2 guys away. Do you try to patch it together for one more run? (Since that has worked well this year.) Do you blow it up and start over? If so, is it too late to trade off pieces for draft picks?
The good news is that I don't think they can screw it up and win a bunch of games down the stretch.
vs MIN
vs TB
@ DET
vs DAL
VS NO
vs DET
@ MIN
That's 2-5, at best 3-4.
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Not sure how you can support Emery at this point if you are a Bears fan. D is horrible and the offense is stuck with Jay for the next 3 years. Add in bad coaching hires and you start questioning what he did well for the Bears. It's good to be a Packers fan in this division.
Great point, marty (and others who have made similar points).
Emery is a disaster, and because he probably won't get fired my Bear-fan friends (and kids) are in for many non-playoff years.
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Not sure how you can support Emery at this point if you are a Bears fan. D is horrible and the offense is stuck with Jay for the next 3 years. Add in bad coaching hires and you start questioning what he did well for the Bears. It's good to be a Packers fan in this division.
Emery has been bad. He needs to go. For his 2 best draft picks, he traded up to get Jeffery which likely wasn't necessary and he could have gotten Long in Round 2 and gotten a pass-rusher, DT or LB in Round 1. Maybe that's nit-picking, but even when he gets something right, he gets something else wrong.
I still don't know if McClellin can play because they Bears have used him out of position from the start. It's desperation time now so I say they put him at the Matthews/Polamalu position and let him make an educated guess on the play and go 1000 mph to where he thinks the ball is going. If he's wrong, he's wrong, but odds are that he's going to at least make a few plays each game doing that. I mean, it's not like the D is making any plays now.
Cutler is pretty far down the list on things that are wrong with the Bears. On a majority of plays, the opposing D knows what's coming. Even with all those weapons, he has no chance. Don't get me wrong, Cutler has not been good this season but if you want to rank the Bears' areas for improvement, QB would be no where near the top...which says a lot about the rest of the team and coaching staff.
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Is Ron Wolf available?
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Where do you even start to fix this team? It's not like they are 1 or 2 guys away. Do you try to patch it together for one more run? (Since that has worked well this year.) Do you blow it up and start over? If so, is it too late to trade off pieces for draft picks?
The good news is that I don't think they can screw it up and win a bunch of games down the stretch.
vs MIN
vs TB
@ DET
vs DAL
VS NO
vs DET
@ MIN
That's 2-5, at best 3-4.
What are you talking about?!!? 7-9 is soooo much better than 4-12.
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What are you talking about?!!? 7-9 is soooo much better than 4-12.
At this point my money is on 4-12. Maybe 4-11-1 if they get lucky. I wonder if I can go back in time and pound the under for season wins.
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http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/10/bears-notes-there-was-confusion-all-night-jennings-says-2/
How can there be so much confusion after 2 weeks of prep?
Starting to appreciate the jauron comparison
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definitely rather be 7-9. At least that team would have some fight and character and not pack it in just to collect a paycheck
Hey B, was just trolling this awesome insight from a guy arguing that he would rather finish 7-9 than 4-12.
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Not sure how you can support Emery at this point if you are a Bears fan. D is horrible and the offense is stuck with Jay for the next 3 years. Add in bad coaching hires and you start questioning what he did well for the Bears. It's good to be a Packers fan in this division.
Again, I ask you, name a better available QB. In the day and age in the NFL you have to give that kind of contract.
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Hey B, was just trolling
Yea, I figured as much. Obviously, at this point I don't care about them fighting to the finish. I am so exhausted, I am just ready for the 14-15 season to be over. My fear is that Emery already has some 3rd round sleeper pegged for his top ten draft pick.
And please note... I still am all in with Cutler. You can't pin this year's failings on him, as they are too widespread.
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Again, I ask you, name a better available QB. In the day and age in the NFL you have to give that kind of contract.
They absolutely were screwed on the Cutler contract because I agree that they had no choice. They weren't going to get anyone else, and to keep Cutler, they had to pay him as if he were great.
It's not all that different from when the Twins had to pay to keep Mauer. He had all the leverage -- with the additional leverage of coming off an outstanding season and being a hometown kid -- and now the Twins are stuck giving a huge chunk of their payroll to an injury-prone, singles-hitting first baseman who doesn't drive in runs.
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They absolutely were screwed on the Cutler contract because I agree that they had no choice. They weren't going to get anyone else, and to keep Cutler, they had to pay him as if he were great.
It's not all that different from when the Twins had to pay to keep Mauer. He had all the leverage -- with the additional leverage of coming off an outstanding season and being a hometown kid -- and now the Twins are stuck giving a huge chunk of their payroll to an injury-prone, singles-hitting first baseman who doesn't drive in runs.
The Bears are currently $2-3M under the cap and they have a decent amount coming off the books after the season. Cutler is overpaid, no doubt, but his contract isn't crippling the team from a cap standpoint and they can get out of the deal after the 2016 season. All things considered, it's really not as awful a contract as many people make it out to be.
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Saw that he's the league's highest paid player this year.
Speaking of contracts...wish the Packers would've been able to lock down Cobb over the offseason, understand the hesitation at the time on both sides. Can we afford him this offseason?
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They absolutely were screwed on the Cutler contract because I agree that they had no choice. They weren't going to get anyone else, and to keep Cutler, they had to pay him as if he were great.
It's not all that different from when the Twins had to pay to keep Mauer. He had all the leverage -- with the additional leverage of coming off an outstanding season and being a hometown kid -- and now the Twins are stuck giving a huge chunk of their payroll to an injury-prone, singles-hitting first baseman who doesn't drive in runs.
The Twins are like 24th in payroll.
Mauer and his contract are the least of their problems.
Football is salary capped, so in theory, Jay's contract could be a problem... but until they reach the cap or miss on a player because of the cap, then Jay's contract isn't really a problem.
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You are unbelievable. Completely insufferable. I have never disliked someone so much for someone I have never met.
nice avatar Mr. Positive
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nice avatar Mr. Positive
I'm still supporting Cutler aren't I?
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The Twins are like 24th in payroll.
Mauer and his contract are the least of their problems.
Football is salary capped, so in theory, Jay's contract could be a problem... but until they reach the cap or miss on a player because of the cap, then Jay's contract isn't really a problem.
Comparing contracts and any salary cap issues between teams/players in different professional leagues is silly. Each league has their own CBA and salary structure. Its an apples to oranges comparison.
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nice avatar Mr. Positive
I hope this avatar is more acceptable for you.
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Again, I ask you, name a better available QB. In the day and age in the NFL you have to give that kind of contract.
Hoyer was available.
Jay's suckability rating last night was as high as I've ever seen it. Not to mention he looked even more disinterested than usual. Besides his 3 turnovers, he also threw an interception to House who dropped it and put one right in Sam Shields hands for a 99 yard TD, which he let go right through his hands.
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Saw that he's the league's highest paid player this year.
Speaking of contracts...wish the Packers would've been able to lock down Cobb over the offseason, understand the hesitation at the time on both sides. Can we afford him this offseason?
They will re-sign Cobb. Thompson does not hesitate to pay market value for his star players. They have plenty of salary cap room.
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Hoyer was available.
Jay's suckability rating last night was as high as I've ever seen it. Not to mention he looked even more disinterested than usual. Besides his 3 turnovers, he also threw an interception to House who dropped it and put one right in Sam Shields hands for a 99 yard TD, which he let go right through his hands.
The sack-strip was on Cutler but his 2 INTs were flukish tips. The pass that Shields dropped was a 4th down, desperation pass. If Bennett catches the ball on the play before it, the Bears have a TD there. Was that drop Cutler's fault too? Don't get me wrong, Cutler didn't play well but the Bears have much, much bigger problems than their QB. Either you're just trolling or you're ignorant.
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They will re-sign Cobb. Thompson does not hesitate to pay market value for his star players. They have plenty of salary cap room.
Thanks, don't really pay attention to salary caps so wasn't sure where they stood on that.
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The sack-strip was on Cutler but his 2 INTs were flukish tips. The pass that Shields dropped was a 4th down, desperation pass. If Bennett catches the ball on the play before it, the Bears have a TD there. Was that drop Cutler's fault too? Don't get me wrong, Cutler didn't play well but the Bears have much, much bigger problems than their QB. Either you're just trolling or you're ignorant.
Yawn. More excuses for Jay.
The Bears certainly have quite a few issues. But in the NFL, if you have a really good quarterback you can make up for a lot of those issues. The Bears don't have that, and Jay only adds to the issues rather than covering them up. Make excuses for Jay's turnovers all you want, it's never on him and somehow he just gets fluke after fluke going against him (http://vimeo.com/111183624...please watch this 5:30 video of every interception Cutler has thrown as the Bears QB against the Packers up until last night...there are about 3 that are just plain good plays on defense, otherwise there are 18 that are awful throws or decisions), but yet again Jay has more turnovers (between fumbles and interceptions) than he has touchdowns (between rushing and passing touchdowns) this season. The defense is absolutely, completely awful. But that doesn't change the fact that despite having all these weapons to go to the Bears' season high point total is 28 points and they have scored 20 or fewer points in 4 or their 9 games this season. At some point you have to look and say, "You know what? Other quarterbacks in the NFL don't turn the ball over like Jay does. It can't just be a coincidence. You cannot turn the ball over more than you get the ball in the end zone as a quarterback." At least that's what I'd be saying if Rodgers was turning it over more than he's getting it in the end zone.
PS Saw a tweet from someone saying Aaron Rodgers: 6 touchdowns in the first half. Jay Cutler: 5 touchdowns since week 5.
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The Bears are currently $2-3M under the cap and they have a decent amount coming off the books after the season. Cutler is overpaid, no doubt, but his contract isn't crippling the team from a cap standpoint and they can get out of the deal after the 2016 season. All things considered, it's really not as awful a contract as many people make it out to be.
I didn't say Cutler's contract was crippling. I also said they pretty much had no choice but to keep him.
All of that can be true and the Bears still can be paying Manning/Brady/Rodgers money for a proven, coach-killing loser.
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The Twins are like 24th in payroll.
Mauer and his contract are the least of their problems.
When a small-market team allocates 20-25% of its payroll to a first baseman who hits like Doug Mientkiewicz, it is a problem.
But again, the Twins really had no choice. At the time they gave Mauer that contract, he was the best hitting catcher in baseball, coming off the best season of a career that was clearly on the upswing. They were winning, they had a new ballpark opening and he was the hometown guy.
I'm not criticizing the decision to sign him because they had little choice.
And that's the similarity to the Cutler contract.
Obviously, almost everything else about them is apples-to-oranges -- including Mauer seemingly being a decent guy while Cutler is a pud.
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The sack-strip was on Cutler but his 2 INTs were flukish tips. The pass that Shields dropped was a 4th down, desperation pass. If Bennett catches the ball on the play before it, the Bears have a TD there. Was that drop Cutler's fault too? Don't get me wrong, Cutler didn't play well but the Bears have much, much bigger problems than their QB. Either you're just trolling or you're ignorant.
Why do you keep making excuses for this guy. Maybe if cutler sets his feet and makes a good throw, the balls dont get tipped. What ifs are for losers Every team, qb has close plays that could go either way. Every qb has picks that are not their fault. The fact is cutler throws a lot of picks that hurt his team The packers could have put up 70 last night if you count their what ifs.
cutler played like crap last night plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the defense or anything else.
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I hope this avatar is more acceptable for you.
my comment was about the irony of your putdown of the poster you responded too - hardly positive ;)
(http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/smilies/whoosh7zr.gif)
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The sack-strip was on Cutler but his 2 INTs were flukish tips. The pass that Shields dropped was a 4th down, desperation pass. If Bennett catches the ball on the play before it, the Bears have a TD there. Was that drop Cutler's fault too? Don't get me wrong, Cutler didn't play well but the Bears have much, much bigger problems than their QB. Either you're just trolling or you're ignorant.
the pass Cutler threw off his OL's helmet didn't look like it got tipped, it was close, maybe it did but we laughed our asses off on that one
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my comment was about the irony of your putdown of the poster you responded too - hardly positive ;)
(http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/smilies/whoosh7zr.gif)
I understood that but it really gets annoying when people find satisfaction of bashing another team (more specifically player) more then they comment on their own team.
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I understood that but it really gets annoying when people find satisfaction of bashing another team (more specifically player) more then they comment on their own team.
I never like to rub it in because it can cut both ways, but it also gets annoying when fans put on the blinders and constantly make excuses for poor play because they are fans of a team (player).
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Yawn. More excuses for Jay.
The Bears certainly have quite a few issues. But in the NFL, if you have a really good quarterback you can make up for a lot of those issues. The Bears don't have that, and Jay only adds to the issues rather than covering them up. Make excuses for Jay's turnovers all you want, it's never on him and somehow he just gets fluke after fluke going against him, but yet again Jay has more turnovers (between fumbles and interceptions) than he has touchdowns (between rushing and passing touchdowns) this season. The defense is absolutely, completely awful. But that doesn't change the fact that despite having all these weapons to go to the Bears' season high point total is 28 points and they have scored 20 or fewer points in 4 or their 9 games this season. At some point you have to look and say, "You know what? Other quarterbacks in the NFL don't turn the ball over like Jay does. It can't just be a coincidence. You cannot turn the ball over more than you get the ball in the end zone as a quarterback." At least that's what I'd be saying if Rodgers was turning it over more than he's getting it in the end zone.
First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.
Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.
It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.
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First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.
Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.
It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.
I would argue that you are at the top of the list of football stupid and a myopic fan.
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When a small-market team allocates 20-25% of its payroll to a first baseman who hits like Doug Mientkiewicz, it is a problem.
But again, the Twins really had no choice. At the time they gave Mauer that contract, he was the best hitting catcher in baseball, coming off the best season of a career that was clearly on the upswing. They were winning, they had a new ballpark opening and he was the hometown guy.
I'm not criticizing the decision to sign him because they had little choice.
And that's the similarity to the Cutler contract.
Obviously, almost everything else about them is apples-to-oranges -- including Mauer seemingly being a decent guy while Cutler is a pud.
Again, you're approaching it incorrectly (at least with Mauer).
The Twins are 24th in payroll. Without Mauer, they are 28th in payroll. They have plenty room to spend $, even with Joe on the roster.
They aren't bad because if Joe or his salary,
- They are bad because they don't have good players that are under team control
- The FA's they have brought in are bad at baseball
- The owners aren't spending enough $ to acquire the right players
Jay's contract is different because it's a salary capped sport. However, unless Jay's contract is actually preventing the Bears from making a move, it's not cost prohibitive. So, at this point, it's not really a problem.
Next season, it could be a problem.
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I would argue that you are at the top of the list of football stupid and a myopic fan.
Huh?
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Huh?
Read the last line in merrits rant, not that hard to figure out.
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I would argue that you are at the top of the list of football stupid and a myopic fan.
How so? Please enlighten us.
I assume it's because I said that Cutler played poorly but his 2 INTs were both flukish tipped balls, which somehow makes me a Cutler apologist in the minds of the football brilliant like yourself.
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Read the last line in merrits rant, not that hard to figure out.
"It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force. "
It's possible to critique the guy without all the hyperbole. You pretty much prove MM's point.
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First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.
Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.
It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.
You wear the same blinders as Emery and Trestman. In eight years, the guy has made one Pro Bowl and his stats that year were utterly laughable - 25 TDs and 18 Ints despite getting sacked only 11 times the entire season. . Hardly Pro bowl numbers.
The guy is a borderline top-20 QB in the NFL. He should NOT be paid like a top-3 guy.
And that is not even the worst part. We know Jay sucks on the football field. The bigger problem is that he is a leader in the locker room. If that won't destroy a team (and it obviously has), nothing will.
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You wear the same blinders as Emery and Trestman. In eight years, the guy has made one Pro Bowl and his stats that year were utterly laughable - 25 TDs and 18 Ints despite getting sacked only 11 times the entire season. . Hardly Pro bowl numbers.
The guy is a borderline top-20 QB in the NFL. He should NOT be paid like a top-3 guy.
And that is not even the worst part. We know Jay sucks on the football field. The bigger problem is that he is a leader in the locker room. If that won't destroy a team (and it obviously has), nothing will.
I have never called Cutler "elite" like Emery did. I have never said that he should be paid like a top 3 guy. I have never said anything about his Pro Bowl credentials. I have never said that I feel he's a great leader.
I have said that he's not nearly as bad as many people make him out to be. I've said that he's careless with the football too often. I've said that the Bears didn't really have any better options at QB after last season. I acknowledged Ammo's strong point when he said that the Bears could have franchised Cutler instead of signing him for big, guaranteed money. Guess I should get some new blinders. Mine aren't working very well.
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"It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force. "
It's possible to critique the guy without all the hyperbole. You pretty much prove MM's point.
What the hell are you talking about?
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How so? Please enlighten us.
I assume it's because I said that Cutler played poorly but his 2 INTs were both flukish tipped balls, which somehow makes me a Cutler apologist in the minds of the football brilliant like yourself.
You are the one who first used the term “football stupids” not me. So it is ok for you to call people football stupid because they disagree with you but you get your panties in a bunch when someone does it back
Someone basically said Cutler sucked and then gave specific reasons why. Your response was that the interceptions were not Cutlers fault because they were tipped. Not exactly football brilliance. Tipped balls are not a fluke, they are usually on the qb.
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First of all, Cutler has 19 TDs (18 pass, 1 rush) and 15 TOs (10 INT, 5 fumbles lost). Those are obvious awful numbers but, even so, 19 > 15.
Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what. He's the scapegoat and it's easy to pile on him. As I stated previously, Cutler didn't play well last night. No one on the Bears did. That said, when the D can't stop anybody or even even figure out what coverage they're supposed to be in while the offense is painfully predictable, and DBs know exactly what routes are being run, there's not much that a QB can do. Even St. Aaron would struggle in the offense that the Bears are currently running. That said, Cutler does force throws, make bad reads, hold the ball too long in the pocket and too often plays dumb, careless football. Combine that with a horrible scheme and this Bears' team is the result.
It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force.
espn.com's stats on him shows 18 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 1 rushing touchdown, and 10 fumbles. Maybe they are showing total fumbles and not fumbles lost and that's where I'm misreading it.
The point is, either Cutler is the most unlucky quarterback in the history of the NFL (what you and many Bears fans apparently think) to turn the ball over the absurd amount of times he does, or the fact that he has absolutely terrible mechanics, terrible footwork, and terrible decision making cause him to turn the ball over way too much (what I and many football fans think). I guess when I watch NFL quarterbacks who value the football they typically are a lot more fundamentally sound and don't throw into double coverage nearly as much as Jay does. When quarterbacks do throw into double coverage, sometimes the ball gets tipped and another player picks it off. You call that bad luck, I call it a stupid decision to throw it into double coverage. When a quarterback is still shuffling his feet rather than setting them and stepping into the ball and the trajectory of the pass is lower than it would be otherwise and gets tipped at the line and picked off, you call it bad luck while I call it poor mechanics. I guess that's the difference and I'm an idiot who blindly bashes the guy. So be it, the point is, bad luck and all, Jay Cutler turns the ball over way, way too much.
http://vimeo.com/111183624
I encourage you to go here and let me know how many of these 22 interceptions in 11 games against the Packers going into last night's game are bad luck/not Jay's fault. http://vimeo.com/111183624
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espn.com's stats on him shows 18 TD passes, 10 interceptions, 1 rushing touchdown, and 10 fumbles. Maybe they are showing total fumbles and not fumbles lost and that's where I'm misreading it.
The point is, either Cutler is the most unlucky quarterback in the history of the NFL (what you and many Bears fans apparently think) to turn the ball over the absurd amount of times he does, or the fact that he has absolutely terrible mechanics, terrible footwork, and terrible decision making cause him to turn the ball over way too much (what I and many football fans think). I guess when I watch NFL quarterbacks who value the football they typically are a lot more fundamentally sound and don't throw into double coverage nearly as much as Jay does. When quarterbacks do throw into double coverage, sometimes the ball gets tipped and another player picks it off. You call that bad luck, I call it a stupid decision to throw it into double coverage. When a quarterback is still shuffling his feet rather than setting them and stepping into the ball and the trajectory of the pass is lower than it would be otherwise and gets tipped at the line and picked off, you call it bad luck while I call it poor mechanics. I guess that's the difference and I'm an idiot who blindly bashes the guy. So be it, the point is, bad luck and all, Jay Cutler turns the ball over way, way too much.
http://vimeo.com/111183624
I encourage you to go here and let me know how many of these 22 interceptions in 11 games against the Packers going into last night's game are bad luck/not Jay's fault. http://vimeo.com/111183624
When did I say that Cutler was an unlucky QB? When did I say that Cutler's INTs are rarely his fault? When did I say that he doesn't turn the ball over too much? When did I say that Cutler has good mechanics? When did I say it's a good decision to throw into double coverage?
I encourage you to go through this thread and let me know.
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You are the one who first used the term “football stupids” not me. So it is ok for you to call people football stupid because they disagree with you but you get your panties in a bunch when someone does it back
Someone basically said Cutler sucked and then gave specific reasons why. Your response was that the interceptions were not Cutlers fault because they were tipped. Not exactly football brilliance. Tipped balls are not a fluke, they are usually on the qb.
The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about and don't just spout off things like "Cutler sucks because he had 3 TOs and almost had 2 more!" I stated that Cutler's 2 INTs were flukish plays. Despite near flawless mechanics, 6-foot-7 Julius Peppers got the last digit of his finger on a pass and that was just enough to allow Hyde to step in and pick it off. It wasn't poor mechanics. It wasn't a bad read. It wasn't a poor throw. It was a good play by GB and an unfortunate break for the Bears. If Cutler used poor mechanics and fired that pass sidearm, Peppers bats it straight down into the ground and it's 3rd down.
Believe me, Cutler has thrown plenty of awful INTs and had plenty of "sucky" plays but when someone calls out a play that was neither to use as evidence that Cutler sucked last night, it's football stupid, or at least football ignorant. It would be similar to me praising Rodgers' ability to throw the deep ball and then citing his 56-yard TD pass to Lacy as evidence.
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When did I say that Cutler was an unlucky QB? When did I say that Cutler's INTs are rarely his fault? When did I say that he doesn't turn the ball over too much? When did I say that Cutler has good mechanics? When did I say it's a good decision to throw into double coverage?
I encourage you to go through this thread and let me know.
Well, when you quote my post and then start your argument with, "Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what," and end it with, "It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force," it would certainly seem to suggest that you don't agree with what I'm saying. Maybe my reading comprehension and coming to conclusions without things being spelled out for me is just that awful though, what do I know?
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The difference is that I actually know what I'm talking about and don't just spout off things like "Cutler sucks because he had 3 TOs and almost had 2 more!" I stated that Cutler's 2 INTs were flukish plays. Despite near flawless mechanics, 6-foot-7 Julius Peppers got the last digit of his finger on a pass and that was just enough to allow Hyde to step in and pick it off. It wasn't poor mechanics. It wasn't a bad read. It wasn't a poor throw. It was a good play by GB and an unfortunate break for the Bears. If Cutler used poor mechanics and fired that pass sidearm, Peppers bats it straight down into the ground and it's 3rd down.
Believe me, Cutler has thrown plenty of awful INTs and had plenty of "sucky" plays but when someone calls out a play that was neither to use as evidence that Cutler sucked last night, it's football stupid, or at least football ignorant. It would be similar to me praising Rodgers' ability to throw the deep ball and then citing his 56-yard TD pass to Lacy as evidence.
For the record I do not think you are a stupid football fan. I do think that at times you see things through blue and orange glasses. I disagree with you that the picks were flukish, they were interceptions and cutler has to own up to them, thats part of his problem.
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Well, when you quote my post and then start your argument with, "Ignorant, blindly-hating fans are going to blame Jay no matter what," and end it with, "It's amazing that whenever someone makes a comment about Cutler that isn't completely, overwhelmingly negative, the football stupids come out in force," it would certainly seem to suggest that you don't agree with what I'm saying. Maybe my reading comprehension and coming to conclusions without things being spelled out for me is just that awful though, what do I know?
Ding! Ding! Ding! ;)
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Ding! Ding! Ding! ;)
Fair enough, then we agree on everything I said and I just can't read. Done deal.
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It also doesn't help that Packers fans have the privilege of watching an all-time great and surefire HOF QB in Rodgers, and thus comparing Cutler to him makes for easy point and laugh comparisons. If you threw Cutler in the AFC North, for example, suddenly its not so glaring.
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What the hell are you talking about?
I read the last line of MM's "rant", and gave further explanation. what the hell are YOU talking about?
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I read the last line of MM's "rant", and gave further explanation. what the hell are YOU talking about?
Ok thank you for being the conscience of the thread (albeit very selective.)
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Ok thank you for being the conscience of the thread (albeit very selective.)
And thank you for fulfilling my troll intake for the day
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Cutler is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL. At his absolute best, he's top 10. (We all agree?) Based on supply/demand, the Bears were in a tough spot with Cutler this off-season and chose a long term (fair-market) deal instead of franchising him. (Still on the same page?) Someone could do the math and compare Cutler's cap hit in this contract vs. a couple seasons of franchising him. Cutler has been bad from the second half of last season through today (Still good?). Cutler is clearly not a good enough QB to make up for deficiencies on an NFL team. (Yes?) The Bears are a bad team whether or not Cutler is the QB here. (Ok?) And that probably starts from at least Trestman on down, though you could make an argument for Emery or upper-level execs - I'm looking at you, Ted Philips. (Sound reasonable?)
I've made no excuses for Cutler in the preceding paragraph. I have said he's bad. I've said he has the capability to be good. I've said he cannot carry/make up for problems on a team. But the Bears are bad all over the field and on the sideline as well.
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Cutler is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL. At his absolute best, he's top 10. (We all agree?) Based on supply/demand, the Bears were in a tough spot with Cutler this off-season and chose a long term (fair-market) deal instead of franchising him. (Still on the same page?) Someone could do the math and compare Cutler's cap hit in this contract vs. a couple seasons of franchising him. Cutler has been bad from the second half of last season through today (Still good?). Cutler is clearly not a good enough QB to make up for deficiencies on an NFL team. (Yes?) The Bears are a bad team whether or not Cutler is the QB here. (Ok?) And that probably starts from at least Trestman on down, though you could make an argument for Emery or upper-level execs - I'm looking at you, Ted Philips. (Sound reasonable?)
I've made no excuses for Cutler in the preceding paragraph. I have said he's bad. I've said he has the capability to be good. I've said he cannot carry/make up for problems on a team. But the Bears are bad all over the field and on the sideline as well.
I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees). The bear defense is horrible no doubt but how does that change how cutler has played?
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I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees).
I think you'll find most rational/realistic fans won't treat Cutler that way.
It does become annoying when Cutler is pointed at as the sole reason the Bears stink. Because everyone should be able to admit that isn't the case at all. No, he isn't helping the situation and, yes, he is making it worse. But he isn't the only reason.
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I think you'll find most rational/realistic fans won't treat Cutler that way.
It does become annoying when Cutler is pointed at as the sole reason the Bears stink. Because everyone should be able to admit that isn't the case at all. No, he isn't helping the situation and, yes, he is making it worse. But he isn't the only reason.
Someone has to be the scapegoat and cutler is an easy target
you are correct,he is not the main reason they are losing but he is contributing to the suckiness
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Someone has to be the scapegoat and cutler is an easy target
you are correct,he is not the main reason they are losing but he is contributing to the suckiness
See? No blinders, no idiocy, just agreement on logical statements.
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See? No blinders, no idiocy, just agreement on logical statements.
Correct, but everyone is not like you
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I agree with all of that, my gripe are those who treat cutler like a Teflon god that can do no wrong, (some to different degrees).
Who here has made any of the above claims?
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Who here has made any of the above claims?
He's gonna say me but I have consistsntly said there was no one better who was available.
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Question: Any indication if Peterson face a conduct violation suspension? (Asking for a friend.)
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Question: Any indication if Peterson face a conduct violation suspension? (Asking for a friend.)
He may, they are now considering it. Personally, I think he gets a minimum of an additional 4 games.
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He may, they are now considering it. Personally, I think he gets a minimum of an additional 4 games.
(http://dabearsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/chi-mel-tucker-tackling-bears-20140822.jpg)
Uh, thanks.
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Man Cutler showed no heart last night. Glad I picked up Mark Sanchez for FF, cause Cut is reeling now.
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Man Cutler showed no heart last night. Glad I picked up Mark Sanchez for FF, cause Cut is reeling now.
FIRE CAPERS!
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FIRE CAPERS!
I've never called for Capers's job, think he's the best we can do. Other people have, but I'm not gonna throw it in their face, it was one game. Hope we keep the good d play up. Moving Matthews inside was genius.
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I never thought Chip Kelly would be this good in the NFL. With Foles emergence last year, and Sanchez's performance last night, it makes you wonder if he has figured out a way to simplify the quarterback position in a way that is going to make it easier for teams to not have to invest such big $$ into the position.
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Wow even Gov. Walker getting in on it. Tweeted that he has more victories in WI than Jay Cutler, there goes the Bear fans vote if he runs for Prez
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Cutler is a top 15-20 QB in the NFL. At his absolute best, he's top 10. (We all agree?) Based on supply/demand, the Bears were in a tough spot with Cutler this off-season and chose a long term (fair-market) deal instead of franchising him. (Still on the same page?) Someone could do the math and compare Cutler's cap hit in this contract vs. a couple seasons of franchising him. Cutler has been bad from the second half of last season through today (Still good?). Cutler is clearly not a good enough QB to make up for deficiencies on an NFL team. (Yes?) The Bears are a bad team whether or not Cutler is the QB here. (Ok?) And that probably starts from at least Trestman on down, though you could make an argument for Emery or upper-level execs - I'm looking at you, Ted Philips. (Sound reasonable?)
I've made no excuses for Cutler in the preceding paragraph. I have said he's bad. I've said he has the capability to be good. I've said he cannot carry/make up for problems on a team. But the Bears are bad all over the field and on the sideline as well.
Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
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Yeaaa, nm thought better of it.
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Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
When you have a pass catching threat like Bennett at tight end the #3 wide receiver becomes fairly unimportant. As long as you have 3 threats to catch the ball you are just fine there, especially when you have a back like Forte who is a threat to catch the ball out of the back field as well.
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Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
I think Santonio Holmes is a fine #3 receiver, but it doesn't seem like Jay ever looks his way.
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Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
While you are correct on the other weaknesses, the reality of today's NFL is, if your QB play is sub-par it is your primary weakness. In other words, if your QB play is sub-par, nothing else really matters. When you have problems elsewhere, it just exacerbates the problem.
75% or so of teams pretty much start the year eliminated from Super Bowl contention because their QB is simply not capable of getting them there. The Bears are a train wreck all over, but indications seem to point more and more to Jay being among the 75% and not the 25%.
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While you are correct on the other weaknesses, the reality of today's NFL is, if your QB play is sub-par it is your primary weakness. In other words, if your QB play is sub-par, nothing else really matters. When you have problems elsewhere, it just exacerbates the problem.
75% or so of teams pretty much start the year eliminated from Super Bowl contention because their QB is simply not capable of getting them there. The Bears are a train wreck all over, but indications seem to point more and more to Jay being among the 75% and not the 25%.
Rex Grossman and the 06 Bears and the 85 Bears with McMahon beg to differ...
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Yep, that's why I said today's NFL. 2006 was a lifetime ago (and BTW, they lost...to Peyton Manning).
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Yep, that's why I said today's NFL. 2006 was a lifetime ago (and BTW, they lost...to Peyton Manning).
Dude, you're just a Cutler hater...
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Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
I've heard a lot of screaming and yelling about Mel Tucker. (Listened to the SCORE yesterday. Every Packer fan should do that after a win) Does he have the horses or is he a horsesh*t coordinator? I thought the Bears were gonna bite it and start from scratch on defense.
Based on Monday's radio talk, If I were Trestman, I'd watch my dog.
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Yep, that's why I said today's NFL. 2006 was a lifetime ago (and BTW, they lost...to Peyton Manning).
No disagreement that QB in today's nfl is the most important. But I think it also depends on how the rest of your team is composed. Flacco, Wilson, kapernick, even Eli probably aren't good enough to elevate a team to a super bowl level on their own. Right now, I'd put all 4 of those guys above Cutler, just so we're all clear
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I've heard a lot of screaming and yelling about Mel Tucker. (Listened to the SCORE yesterday. Every Packer fan should do that after a win) Does he have the horses or is he a horsesh*t coordinator? I thought the Bears were gonna bite it and start from scratch on defense.
Based on Monday's radio talk, If I were Trestman, I'd watch my dog.
That's a great chicken or the egg argument. I don't think Tucker is good but I also don't think that he designs plays that give WRs 12 yards of space. That's on the players. Linebackers are brutal. Secondary is really young with Fuller and Vereen and on paper the D line should be much better than they are.
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I've heard a lot of screaming and yelling about Mel Tucker. (Listened to the SCORE yesterday. Every Packer fan should do that after a win) Does he have the horses or is he a horsesh*t coordinator? I thought the Bears were gonna bite it and start from scratch on defense.
Based on Monday's radio talk, If I were Trestman, I'd watch my dog.
The Score is even entertaining for Bears fans after losses. It's like listening to a spoof of meathead football fans after a loss.
Anyway, the Bears' D lacks in talent, but one of the major issues is that the players don't know what's going on. Even going back to last season, there have been major blown coverages and missed assignments because defenders aren't on the same page. On the first Nelson TD, the Bears' defenders were playing 3 different defenses! There's clearly something lacking in terms of preparation, communication and scheme...you know, the primary aspects of coaching. There's too much experience on that D to be making the gaffs that they're making. A bulk of the blame has to fall on Tucker.
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Very well stated. Simple, clear and concise. I agree on all counts.
The additional issue that the Bears face is that the QB position, though sub-par, is not even one of their primary weaknesses. If you were going to rank the Bears' biggest areas for improvement...safeties, linebackers, pass rusher, right tackle, #3 WR, and possibly even CBs, and kick returners would be before QB. The roster is a complete mess right now and the coaching staff is in over their heads. Not a good combo.
I agree with all of this. While Cutler is an 'average' to 'slightly above average' QB, what happened on Sunday night really wasn't his fault. As a Packer fan I was pleased that the Bears re-signed him long term as we absolutely do have his number. But the Bears problems run much deeper than Jay. Aaron Rodgers could have agreed to switch uniforms each possession and the Rodgers led Packers would still have soundly beaten the Rodgers led Bears. The Bear defense is simply terrible. Does anyone here believe that the Packers couldn't have scored 70 had they wanted to? They literally called off the dogs at halftime and both teams would have happily gone to the showers. We should feel good that seemingly no major injuries occurred.
I actually feel sorry for some of the proud Bear players who are experiencing this; an epic collapse of a historic franchise. Lance Briggs was one hell of a player. I'm sure he wishes his team was better and is envious of his friend now playing brilliantly 200 miles to the north.
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Wow even Gov. Walker getting in on it. Tweeted that he has more victories in WI than Jay Cutler, there goes the Bear fans vote if he runs for Prez
Sorry. Reread my post and decided it was ever so slightly political, albeit in good fun.
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Sorry. Reread my post and decided it was ever so slightly political, albeit in good fun.
Yea, took my post back earlier too. Though it was much more angry and (possibly) offensive towards Walker.
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I actually feel sorry for some of the proud Bear players who are experiencing this; an epic collapse of a historic franchise. Lance Briggs was one hell of a player. I'm sure he wishes his team was better and is envious of his friend now playing brilliantly 200 miles to the north.
Don't feel too sorry for Briggs. He made $7.5M last year and is making $6.5M this year, yet he completely mailed it in after injuring his shoulder last season. He was expected to miss 6 weeks and was out for 9, coming back overweight and out of shape for the final 2 games and then he showed up for training camp still overweight and out of shape. He also recently admitted to tuning out during team meetings. He was a great player and I loved watching him play, but he's lost interest.
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That's a great chicken or the egg argument. I don't think Tucker is good but I also don't think that he designs plays that give WRs 12 yards of space. That's on the players.
Perhaps, but on the first touch down to Jordy, the fact that I could tell what was about to happen seeing only a portion of the field and players involved, while 11 players and multiple coaches on the field or in the booth didn't recognize it and at least try to call time out or adjust in some way, is an indictment of a completely unprepared coaching staff. The fact that it later happened again, just makes it that much worse. Talent problems? Yes. Serious coaching problems as well? Absolutely.
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I've heard a lot of screaming and yelling about Mel Tucker. (Listened to the SCORE yesterday. Every Packer fan should do that after a win) Does he have the horses or is he a horsesh*t coordinator? I thought the Bears were gonna bite it and start from scratch on defense.
Based on Monday's radio talk, If I were Trestman, I'd watch my dog.
http://deadspin.com/twitter-users-harass-marc-trestmans-daughters-after-bea-1657009542
Gotta love internet courage/anonymity... So embarrassing.
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Bears finally discover their problem this year and have moved to rectify it - Santonio Holmes gets cut today.
Good to see that their decision makers are able to identify problems and then act quickly. :o
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Rodgers (with lady friend in hand), Hawk (and wife), and Cobb ( sans broad) all court side at tonight's Bucks game to watch Milwaukee crack the Thunder.
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Rodgers (with lady friend in hand), Hawk (and wife), and Cobb ( sans broad) all court side at tonight's Bucks game to watch Milwaukee crack the Thunder.
Wow - Rodgers must have big hands. ;)
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Rodgers (with lady friend in hand), Hawk (and Brady Quinn's sister), and Cobb ( sans broad) all court side at tonight's Bucks game to watch Milwaukee crack the Thunder.
Fixed.
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SKOL VIKINGS! 10-0 at Bears.
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SKOL VIKINGS! 10-0 at Bears.
That's saying a lot!
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That's saying a lot!
Bad thing is I wouldn't be surprised to see either team wind up winning by 3 TD's. Nonetheless, if we're 5-5.. AD re-joins.. look out! Wild Card hopeful and then... MAGIC in the playoffs! What a tremendous Super Bowl year this is shaping up to be for the Vikings!!!
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Bad thing is I wouldn't be surprised to see either team wind up winning by 3 TD's. Nonetheless, if we're 5-5.. AD re-joins.. look out! Wild Card hopeful and then... MAGIC in the playoffs! What a tremendous Super Bowl year this is shaping up to be for the Vikings!!!
Haha I gotta hand it to you, you're persistent that's for sure.
I don't think AD skipping his disciplinary hearing with the NFL on Friday is going to help his chances for rejoining. Not to mention I think you need at least 10 wins to get a Wild Card in the NFC this year. I don't see the Queens going 5-1 down the stretch even if AD rejoins the team in mid-season form starting next week. Still have losses to GB, at Miami, and at Detroit left on the schedule.
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Haha I gotta hand it to you, you're persistent that's for sure.
I don't think AD skipping his disciplinary hearing with the NFL on Friday is going to help his chances for rejoining. Not to mention I think you need at least 10 wins to get a Wild Card in the NFC this year. I don't see the Queens going 5-1 down the stretch even if AD rejoins the team in mid-season form starting next week. Still have losses to GB, at Miami, and at Detroit left on the schedule.
I'd tell you he didn't skip it. He didn't agree to it based on what the NFLPA told him to do. NFL is writing the rules as they go. Difficult spot for them, but eff 'em. FREE AP.
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AP will be suspended though as soon as he is eligible. Four games?
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I'd tell you he didn't skip it. He didn't agree to it based on what the NFLPA told him to do. NFL is writing the rules as they go. Difficult spot for them, but eff 'em. FREE AP.
Actually, based on what the NFL agreed to they can keep him out for two years. The wording stated that he was to remain on the exempt list until the case was adjudicated. In his plea deal he wanted a two year deferred adjudication.
So technically the NFL is in the right.
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Actually, based on what the NFL agreed to they can keep him out for two years. The wording stated that he was to remain on the exempt list until the case was adjudicated. In his plea deal he wanted a two year deferred adjudication.
So technically the NFL is in the right.
No
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Bridgewater just threw a Cutler pass to clinch the win for the Bears.
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No
Care to elaborate. The language says he will be on the exempt list until the case is adjudicated. AP asked for and was granted deferred adjudication, implying it won't be officially adjudicated for two more years. No formal conviction has been made yet.
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Brees? Brady? Manning? Luck? No. I will say that Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL today
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Brees? Brady? Manning? Luck? No. I will say that Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL today
Sure looks that way. We are all lucky to get to watch him play the position.
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Cardinals deserved to win. Too many penalties. Poor play calling and poor offensive line play made Stafford look like Joey Harrington. But the Cardinals applied the pressure, so kudos to them.
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AP. Done for the year.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=11896187
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I'd tell you he didn't skip it. He didn't agree to it based on what the NFLPA told him to do. NFL is writing the rules as they go. Difficult spot for them, but eff 'em. FREE AP.
Usually I can pick up on JB's sarcasm/irony, but I'm struggling on this one.
I don't believe any rational person would advocate "freeing" someone who lacerated his child and then boasted about it, but then again, Vikings fans aren't exactly known as the most rational of the NFCN fanbases.
Case in point:
Bad thing is I wouldn't be surprised to see either team wind up winning by 3 TD's. Nonetheless, if we're 5-5.. AD re-joins.. look out! Wild Card hopeful and then... MAGIC in the playoffs! What a tremendous Super Bowl year this is shaping up to be for the Vikings!!!
Or maybe that's the aforementioned irony I've been looking for.
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In other news, just picked up Josh Gordon off of the waiver wire. Really excited with the pickup.
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AP. Done for the year.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=11896187
At this point in the season, with Viking playoff chances dim and dimmer, he should find a nice training facility and look forward to next year. And do a boat load of volunteer work.
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In other news, just picked up Josh Gordon off of the waiver wire. Really excited with the pickup.
Who picked up Josh Gordon?
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At this point in the season, with Viking playoff chances dim and dimmer, he should find a nice training facility and look forward to next year. And do a boat load of volunteer work.
...and fire his agent and find a PR firm who can, at the very least, help make him seem like he's even slightly remorseful for his actions.
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Who picked up Josh Gordon?
Sorry, talking about fantasy. Really shoulda specified.
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Sorry, talking about fantasy. Really shoulda specified.
(http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1287494299880_6396610.png)
Sorry, had to do it.
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AP. Done for the year.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=11896187
I understand why the union and Peterson would fight it, but it is impossible to feel even a speck of sympathy for a child abuser. And no matter one's view of corporal punishment, that's exactly what Peterson is.
He beat a 4-year-old bloody. A less-famous person very well might be in jail.
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I understand why the union and Peterson would fight it, but it is impossible to feel even a speck of sympathy for a child abuser. And no matter one's view of corporal punishment, that's exactly what Peterson is.
He beat a 4-year-old bloody. A less-famous person very well might be in jail.
+1
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Sure looks that way. We are all lucky to get to watch him play the position.
He is dominating and making it look easy. For one season right now I'd take him in a heartbeat over any other QB, and I'm a Bears fan saying that.
Hard to begrudge Brady anything. Doesn't matter who else they roll through NE, he just keeps winning, throwing TD's to guys who were recently selling Buicks... and not by being in a commercial.
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Same old Lions. Although, facing the Cardinals and the Patriots back to back would suck for anybody. Still thinking about you and your family, Dish. Every time I look at this thread. Hang in there, brother.
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Same old Lions. Although, facing the Cardinals and the Patriots back to back would suck for anybody. Still thinking about you and your family, Dish. Every time I look at this thread. Hang in there, brother.
Old habits die hard.
The NFL will review Dominic Raiola's cut block on Patriots DL Zach Moore for a possible fine, but the Lions center is not facing a suspension, the league said. The NFL is also looking into a play where Raiola appears to take a swing at Moore for possible discipline.
Lions coach Jim Caldwell said he spoke with Raiola, but he kept the nature of their conversation private. The coach said the team is not considering any punishment for Raiola.
The issue with Raiola started when he tried to cut-block Moore on the game's final play with Detroit lined up in a kneel-down formation at the end of New England's 34-9 win over the Lions. After the game, Raiola said he was trying to cut-block Moore and took umbrage with NE scoring a late TD.
The Patriots scored the late touchdown because a C.J. Mosley personal foul penalty nullified a Patriots field goal to give NE a first down at the 1-yard line. Caldwell said Mosley was flagged appropriately.
"I cut him. We took a knee, so I cut the nose," Raiola said. "They went for a touchdown at two minutes; they could have taken three knees and the game could have been over.
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Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for RGIII. Which team says no?
Before you say the Bears...
Cutler has a cap hit of ~$17M each of the next 2 seasons while RGIII's is $6.8M and expires after next season.
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Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for RGIII. Which team says no?
Before you say the Bears...
Cutler has a cap hit of ~$17M each of the next 2 seasons while RGIII's is $6.8M and expires after next season.
Yeah but RGIII has devolved into something Godawful.
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Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for RGIII. Which team says no?
Before you say the Bears...
Cutler has a cap hit of ~$17M each of the next 2 seasons while RGIII's is $6.8M and expires after next season.
If the Bears feel that they are in complete rebuild mode, then they should consider that. RGIII has been close to a disaster for Washington, but some of it may be related to the dysfunction of the organization. RGIII may have upside and he is young enough to build around. Personally I think he is over hyped and over rated and never will be an elite QB, but he is cheap enough to give a shot and if he doesn't work out you can unload him.
If the Bears are delusional and feel they can contend soon, then I wouldn't do that trade.
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Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for RGIII. Which team says no?
Before you say the Bears...
Cutler has a cap hit of ~$17M each of the next 2 seasons while RGIII's is $6.8M and expires after next season.
Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for Titans first rounder.
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Fictitious Trade: Jay Cutler for Titans first rounder.
Cutler would never fetch a first rounder. 3rd rounder maybe
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Same old Lions. Although, facing the Cardinals and the Patriots back to back would suck for anybody. Still thinking about you and your family, Dish. Every time I look at this thread. Hang in there, brother.
Tower, what happened to Stafford this year? Since week 2, Oakland (Carr), the Jets (Smith & Vick) and Jacksonville (Bortles) have all scored more TDs than Detroit. Has he regressed or do you think it's the coaching?
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Tower, what happened to Stafford this year? Since week 2, Oakland (Carr), the Jets (Smith & Vick) and Jacksonville (Bortles) have all scored more TDs than Detroit. Has he regressed or do you think it's the coaching?
Bad offensive line play has turned and poor play calling. Getting knocked down on almost every dropback, new OC isn't nearly as creative as Linehan. Plus, from an accuracy standpoint, Stafford has always been more like Favre than Brady/Manning.
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7 rushes for the bears. 7. Of course, trestman said at halftime they needed to be more balanced.
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7 rushes for the bears. 7. Of course, trestman said at halftime they needed to be more balanced.
Trestman must not trust Trestman.
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Cutler would never fetch a first rounder. 3rd rounder maybe
Hey, you never know what a team desperate for a QB will do. I could see a team like the Texans giving up a first rounder for Cutler (very unlikely, however)
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Amazing what no drops and a less than stellar opposing defense will do for a team's offense.
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Hey, you never know what a team desperate for a QB will do. I could see a team like the Texans giving up a first rounder for Cutler (very unlikely, however)
No, you are right about that
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No, you are right about that
The only way Cutler is gone is if someone does a desperate move -trading multiple picks. Texans are set with Mallet. One interesting trade, though, would be RGIII for Cutler. It would make sense on both ends and could benefit each team.
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Goodell is in a heap of trouble. Ray rice reinstated after he was found of telling the truth to the NFL from the beginning.
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Goodell is in a heap of trouble. Ray rice reinstated after he was found of telling the truth to the NFL from the beginning.
Well, right from the stat we knew either Goodell was lying or everybody else was. Not too hard to figure out.
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Packers v. Patriots. IMO there aren't many things better in sports than a late season, late Sunday afternoon game between two high quality football teams.
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BTW, anyone who still thinks that McCarthy can't make adjustments and is just riding on Aaron Rodgers should watch today's game again.
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Bears looking solid on both sides of the ball
#balance
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Even though they are awful and drive me insane, I am looking to take my daughter to the last home game of the season (12/21 vs the Lions). Any scoopers looking to unload tickets for a reasonable price? I can't believe how ridiculous ticket prices are on stub hub considering the season they are having.
Also, hopefully B Marsh's injury is just ribs.
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Done for it year - as if it matters.
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Even though they are awful and drive me insane, I am looking to take my daughter to the last home game of the season (12/21 vs the Lions). Any scoopers looking to unload tickets for a reasonable price? I can't believe how ridiculous ticket prices are on stub hub considering the season they are having.
I'm not sure how much the Bears would have to pay me to sit in -10 windchill to watch that team. I think I'd do it for $500. I definitely would for a thou. Let them know, OK?
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http://national.suntimes.com/national-sports/7/72/287695/chicago-bears-trade-jay-cutler/
Huh...
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So the Bears sign him to a seven year extension less than a year ago, with $50 M in guarantees, and now they think they can trade him? Well who knows. Someone, somewhere might be interested.
And yet reports out of Chicago are that neither Emery nor Trestman are likely to be fired.
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So the Bears sign him to a seven year extension less than a year ago, with $50 M in guarantees, and now they think they can trade him? Well who knows. Someone, somewhere might be interested.
And yet reports out of Chicago are that neither Emery nor Trestman are likely to be fired.
I agree with all of this.
How many different coaches can you bring in only to fire after a couple of years?
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So the Bears sign him to a seven year extension less than a year ago, with $50 M in guarantees, and now they think they can trade him? Well who knows. Someone, somewhere might be interested.
And yet reports out of Chicago are that neither Emery nor Trestman are likely to be fired.
Carson Palmer was traded for less than a 6th round pick, so Cutler might get that for the bears ;D at best.
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Carson Palmer was traded for less than a 6th round pick, so Cutler might get that for the bears ;D at best.
Yea but the Raiders gave up a 1st and 2nd rounder to get him, so you never know how stupid a team could be.
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So the Bears sign him to a seven year extension less than a year ago, with $50 M in guarantees, and now they think they can trade him? Well who knows. Someone, somewhere might be interested.
And yet reports out of Chicago are that neither Emery nor Trestman are likely to be fired.
This is so concerning to me. Ask any logical Bears fan on whether they would have Trestman/Emery for another year, or Cutler, and they would say Cutler. I dont trust the current front office to acquire a capable replacement and I don't trust Trestman with this team. I'm terrified they are going to have Mel Tucker be the fall guy and send Cutler off for a 4th round pick and act like everything is fine. Do people honestly think this season would be different with McCown? Or Kirk Cousins? Cutler needs to be better, but Aaron Rodgers isn't walking through the door as an option. They won't have a draft pick high enough to get Mariota. They'd end up with someone like Brett Hundley who isn't ready to start in the NFL right away.
Ive heard the buzz about Trestman being safe unless there is a massive flameout, and risking my fan card, I'm ready to pull for losses in the last 3, cause I can't deal with this crap all over again in 2015 as Marshall and Forte's windows close.
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The Bears are an absolute mess right now. The GM has been bad. The coaching staff has been worse. The players don't trust the coaches. The coaches don't trust the players. The roster lacks talent. Most of the players with actual talent (Cutler, Briggs, Allen, Ratliff, etc) are past their prime and/or underperforming. The team could attempt to get rid of Cutler and turn the 2015 season over to Jimmy Clausen or even David Fales, go 4-12 and try to get a franchise QB in the 2016 Draft, but who's there? Kevin Hogan? Connor Cook? Christian Hackenberg? Are those guys QBs who are going to carry a team to the Super Bowl down the line? Do they take a chance on a once highly-touted QB who will soon be out there like Sam Bradford or RGIII? Cutler just might be the best solution at this point, which is part of the problem.
It really would have been interesting to see what Bruce Arians could have done for Cutler.
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The biggest problem is that the Bears' ownership is adverse to bold moves and no one really knows who is running anything up there. I really this doesn't get better in a permanent basis until Virginia dies and the kids cash in.
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This is so concerning to me. Ask any logical Bears fan on whether they would have Trestman/Emery for another year, or Cutler, and they would say Cutler. I dont trust the current front office to acquire a capable replacement and I don't trust Trestman with this team. I'm terrified they are going to have Mel Tucker be the fall guy and send Cutler off for a 4th round pick and act like everything is fine. Do people honestly think this season would be different with McCown? Or Kirk Cousins? Cutler needs to be better, but Aaron Rodgers isn't walking through the door as an option. They won't have a draft pick high enough to get Mariota. They'd end up with someone like Brett Hundley who isn't ready to start in the NFL right away.
Ive heard the buzz about Trestman being safe unless there is a massive flameout, and risking my fan card, I'm ready to pull for losses in the last 3, cause I can't deal with this crap all over again in 2015 as Marshall and Forte's windows close.
It takes 2 massive flameouts to get fired?
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The biggest problem is that the Bears' ownership is adverse to bold moves and no one really knows who is running anything up there. I really this doesn't get better in a permanent basis until Virginia dies and the kids cash in.
This. When does any blame go up past the GM? When was the last time a Bears exec was fired? Because I don't think Ted PHillips does crap
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The biggest problem is that the Bears' ownership is adverse to bold moves and no one really knows who is running anything up there. I really this doesn't get better in a permanent basis until Virginia dies and the kids cash in.
Too much infighting between the kids. I think the franchise will be sold when she goes as none of the kids right now has the cash to buy out the others. Not saying that one of them couldn't join up with investors to get it done though.
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SKOL Vikings! Feels good being out of the cellar. Thanks, Bears.
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Too much infighting between the kids. I think the franchise will be sold when she goes as none of the kids right now has the cash to buy out the others. Not saying that one of them couldn't join up with investors to get it done though.
Infighting, where's that been documented? George McCaskey was elevated to Chairman in 2011 to ensure family continuity after Virginia dies.
The issue with the Bears is the power that Virginia has given Ted Phillips. However, Phillips isn't going anywhere as long as Virginia is alive.
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Infighting, where's that been documented? George McCaskey was elevated to Chairman in 2011 to ensure family continuity after Virginia dies.
The issue with the Bears is the power that Virginia has given Ted Phillips. However, Phillips isn't going anywhere as long as Virginia is alive.
This. Family connections means more than success. Sad.
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That throw by Matty Ice looked like a Jay Cutler throw. Absolute best case scenario is that ball somehow, miraculously goes through a defender's body and they Falcons gain a yard. Throw the ball away kid.
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The biggest problem is that the Bears' ownership is adverse to bold moves and no one really knows who is running anything up there. I really this doesn't get better in a permanent basis until Virginia dies and the kids cash in.
Actually, Ted Phillips runs the show, its very clear. He has full power and has had that since he became CEO back in 1999. Since taking over, the McCaskey family has stayed out of the football operation. Ted consults with them on big picture moves, but he has final say on all football matters.
The issue is how Ted's being evaluated. Phillips has spent his entire career with the Bears. He has worked his way up the ladder and is basically an adopted member of the McCaskey clan. To me, that's the issue. Virginia views Ted as a son, and I doubt she is willing to fire or demote another "son" of hers again. Removing Michael McCaskey after the David McGinnis screw-up was a very painful moment for her.
In terms of the Bears future, that lies in the hands of George McCaskey. I very much doubt that the family sells the team, but changes could occur after Virginia dies. Similar to the Blackhawks in the Bill Wirtz era, the younger generation may have different ideas on how to run things. But as long as the patriarch (or matriarch in this case) is alive, its stay the course.
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(http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/colbert-popcorn.gif)
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So last year's Packer defense showed up in the second half. Can I be optimistic and say that the Packers decided not to double Julio Jones because they didn't want to show too much for their week 17 performance v. Calvin Johnson?
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Actually, Ted Phillips runs the show, its very clear. He has full power and has had that since he became CEO back in 1999. Since taking over, the McCaskey family has stayed out of the football operation. Ted consults with them on big picture moves, but he has final say on all football matters.
The issue is how Ted's being evaluated. Phillips has spent his entire career with the Bears. He has worked his way up the ladder and is basically an adopted member of the McCaskey clan. To me, that's the issue. Virginia views Ted as a son, and I doubt she is willing to fire or demote another "son" of hers again. Removing Michael McCaskey after the David McGinnis screw-up was a very painful moment for her.
In terms of the Bears future, that lies in the hands of George McCaskey. I very much doubt that the family sells the team, but changes could occur after Virginia dies. Similar to the Blackhawks in the Bill Wirtz era, the younger generation may have different ideas on how to run things. But as long as the patriarch (or matriarch in this case) is alive, its stay the course.
I heard a very interesting point in regards to Virginia's death.
The inheritance tax may be a huge blow to the McCaskey's cash flow, and could force them to sell the remainder of the franchise to Patrick Ryan.
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So last year's Packer defense showed up in the second half. Can I be optimistic and say that the Packers decided not to double Julio Jones because they didn't want to show too much for their week 17 performance v. Calvin Johnson?
It was certainly a huge step back, but I'm not overly concerned about it. Since moving Clay to ILB during the bye week the defense has played great. They more or less shut down the Patriots just one week ago, who are clearly one of the top 5 teams in the league. They had a 24 point lead at halftime and let their foot off the gas, and Atlanta took advantage with some good halftime adjustments. The Falcons have some good weapons on offense.
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I heard a very interesting point in regards to Virginia's death.
The inheritance tax may be a huge blow to the McCaskey's cash flow, and could force them to sell the remainder of the franchise to Patrick Ryan.
Definitely could be an issue. The McCaskey's don't have outside business interests and are not independently wealth. There's also issues in regards to the percentage of team ownership after Virginia's death, since the shares of the franchise will be split 11 ways. This article outlines some of the challenges: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/sports/ct-spt-0728-bears-chicago-sports-20130728_1_mccaskeys-bears-many-family-businesses (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/sports/ct-spt-0728-bears-chicago-sports-20130728_1_mccaskeys-bears-many-family-businesses)
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I just think that the further away from George Halas the family goes, the less emotionally invested the family will be in the business and the more the lure of a $1B+ price tag is going to be of interest to the family. I mean, each of the kids could get $100M before taxes at a price tag of $1.5B. Is owning a 6.6% share really all that valuable in comparison?
This is exactly what happened with Ralph Wilson and the Buffalo Bills. The kids didn't really even wait for the body to get cold before selling off the team.
BTW...Pat Ryan? Wauwatosa native.
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I just think that the further away from George Halas the family goes, the less emotionally invested the family will be in the business and the more the lure of a $1B+ price tag is going to be of interest to the family. I mean, each of the kids could get $100M before taxes at a price tag of $1.5B. Is owning a 6.6% share really all that valuable in comparison?
This is exactly what happened with Ralph Wilson and the Buffalo Bills. The kids didn't really even wait for the body to get cold before selling off the team.
BTW...Pat Ryan? Wauwatosa native.
Pat Ryan is also about 80 years old. Does anyone know anything about his kids? Otherwise, with all due respect to Ryan, selling the rest of the team to him is not exactly a long-term play.
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I know Pat Ryan's eldest son, Pat Ryan, Jr. runs a pretty successful venture capital firm in Chicago.
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I heard a very interesting point in regards to Virginia's death.
The inheritance tax may be a huge blow to the McCaskey's cash flow, and could force them to sell the remainder of the franchise to Patrick Ryan.
That's what I was referring to earlier with the infighting. Some of the kids want to keep the team in the family and some will want the $$$ from selling the team. Virginia's got 11 kids plus I think there are some kids from Halas Jr. as well. As of now, there is NO concensus with them.
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Definitely could be an issue. The McCaskey's don't have outside business interests and are not independently wealth. There's also issues in regards to the percentage of team ownership after Virginia's death, since the shares of the franchise will be split 11 ways. This article outlines some of the challenges: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/sports/ct-spt-0728-bears-chicago-sports-20130728_1_mccaskeys-bears-many-family-businesses (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/sports/ct-spt-0728-bears-chicago-sports-20130728_1_mccaskeys-bears-many-family-businesses)
13 ways.
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Hub Arkush said the other day that the Ryan's are the preferred buyer of the team, if they sell, and likely wouldn't open up to offers.
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That's what I was referring to earlier with the infighting. Some of the kids want to keep the team in the family and some will want the $$$ from selling the team. Virginia's got 11 kids plus I think there are some kids from Halas Jr. as well. As of now, there is NO concensus with them.
That makes sense. I thought you were referring to the football operation with the infighting.
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That makes sense. I thought you were referring to the football operation with the infighting.
No prob.
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It's been a while since I've been on here, but had a few minutes this afternoon to catch up on the interweb.
When Virginia passes away, the McCaskey family, under NFL ownership rules, will have no owner. No one child or member of the family will own each of a percentage to be a principal owner. Of the top of my head, and someone can correct me, I believe it's 10%. I think I posted it a few months back. The Bears have already worked with the NFL to ensure that a solution can be reached when this comes up (from what I've heard).
Someone would have to give something up, either one of the kids, or the Ryan/McKenna team.
I can tell you first hand from working with members of that family, albeit now 14 years ago, the majority of them still have no business running an NFL team nor want to. Some of them enjoy it (George, Brian to name a couple), but I believe they will collectively decide to sell.
If it's not Ryan/McKenna that becomes majority owner, I'd bet the first thing the new owner does is try to hold the city hostage on the awful stadium agreement (that heavily favors the city).
Hope everyone is doing well.
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It's been a while since I've been on here, but had a few minutes this afternoon to catch up on the interweb.
When Virginia passes away, the McCaskey family, under NFL ownership rules, will have no owner. No one child or member of the family will own each of a percentage to be a principal owner. Of the top of my head, and someone can correct me, I believe it's 10%. I think I posted it a few months back. The Bears have already worked with the NFL to ensure that a solution can be reached when this comes up (from what I've heard).
Someone would have to give something up, either one of the kids, or the Ryan/McKenna team.
I can tell you first hand from working with members of that family, albeit now 14 years ago, the majority of them still have no business running an NFL team nor want to. Some of them enjoy it (George, Brian to name a couple), but I believe they will collectively decide to sell.
If it's not Ryan/McKenna that becomes majority owner, I'd bet the first thing the new owner does is try to hold the city hostage on the awful stadium agreement (that heavily favors the city).
Hope everyone is doing well.
Was looking forward to your comments about this. Praying for your family.
Do you think that George has enough cloud in the family to hold onto the team? I've been under the impression that Virginia moved him up because she thought George could do that.
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Thanks man, very much appreciated.
Once Virginia passes, it's going to get messy. Virginia more or less has tasked George with sorting it out as the lead. I'll put it this way, if there wasn't a lead McCaskey, things would probably wind up in court quickly.
My guess, and it's just a guess, is the family has a specific plan for the 30% share that Virginia owns/controls. Publicly, the family is going to say they're keeping the team. That's just smart and sound business. Privately though, there's way too many hands in the cookie jar, and too many people who have no real knowledge of owning an NFL franchise. As the family gets older too, the shares get more diluted as they are passed on to grandkids (like after Tim McCaskey passed a few years ago).
Will be very interesting to see how it plays out long term.
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Welcome back Dish. I hope and pray your son is doing well.
The Bears biggest problem is that an accountant is in charge. Sure, Emery is the GM, but he reports to an accountant and that is not a recipe for success. They need a separation of powers similar to GB. If they want to keep Phillips, fine. But they need a man with equal powers to Phillips to run the football side of things. He needs to be a football lifer (a la Wolf or Thompson) and needs complete autonomy in football affairs.
It would do no good to get rid of Emery when Phillips would be picking the next GM.
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Welcome back Dish. I hope and pray your son is doing well.
The Bears biggest problem is that an accountant is in charge. Sure, Emery is the GM, but he reports to an accountant and that is not a recipe for success. They need a separation of powers similar to GB. If they want to keep Phillips, fine. But they need a man with equal powers to Phillips to run the football side of things. He needs to be a football lifer (a la Wolf or Thompson) and needs complete autonomy in football affairs.
It would do no good to get rid of Emery when Phillips would be picking the next GM.
+1
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So it looks like Arizona may have lost Drew Stanton as well. I was thinking that this could give the Packers some breathing room if they lose Sunday (which they very well might) as long as they win their final two games.
At worst, they would own the tie breakers against Philly (head to head) or Dallas (conference record). And even if Arizona manages to keep even with Green Bay, and that will be tough for them, being the #2 with Arizona as the #1 wouldn't be all bad.
The problem is that I am guessing that Seattle runs the table (v. SF, @ AZ, v. StL) and will finish 12-4. And I don't want to play there again.
So I am thinking that the Packers can't have a loss Sunday.
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So it looks like Arizona may have lost Drew Stanton as well. I was thinking that this could give the Packers some breathing room if they lose Sunday (which they very well might) as long as they win their final two games.
At worst, they would own the tie breakers against Philly (head to head) or Dallas (conference record). And even if Arizona manages to keep even with Green Bay, and that will be tough for them, being the #2 with Arizona as the #1 wouldn't be all bad.
The problem is that I am guessing that Seattle runs the table (v. SF, @ AZ, v. StL) and will finish 12-4. And I don't want to play there again.
So I am thinking that the Packers can't have a loss Sunday.
Seahawks will lose at least one more game. Possibly against SF, maybe Arizona if the Cardinals can figure out a way to score over 10 points, or maybe even St Louis. St Louis impresses me. Fischer has done a great job with that team. If they get a QB, they will be formidable in the future.
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As Detroit and Green Bay move towards their season finale in Lambeau, let me toss this little stat out there. Matthew Stafford has never won a road game against a team with a >.500 winning percentage. Detroit needs to win the next two weeks against the Vikings and Bears or they will be sitting home this year. They need them both because I don't think 10 wins will be enough.
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As Detroit and Green Bay move towards their season finale in Lambeau, let me toss this little stat out there. Matthew Stafford has never won a road game against a team with a >.500 winning percentage. Detroit needs to win the next two weeks against the Vikings and Bears or they will be sitting home this year. They need them both because I don't think 10 wins will be enough.
Dallas has Philly and Indy still on the schedule. They could easily go 10-6, not sure who would go to the playoffs between Detroit and Dallas if they both finished 10-6. It will be a mute point because Detroit will go 11-5 and be the wild card team with Arizona at 11-5. I can't see the lions winning at Green Bay unless the Packers have everything wrapped up.
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Detroit needs to win the next two weeks against the Vikings and Bears or they will be sitting home this year. They need them both because I don't think 10 wins will be enough.
Tower, don't worry about the Bears game. The Bears are currently in a full-out, Raiders and Redskins-like, meltdown mode. Here's the latest gem: http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085 (http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085)
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Tower, don't worry about the Bears game. The Bears are currently in a full-out, Raiders and Redskins-like, meltdown mode. Here's the latest gem: http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085 (http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085)
The very first comment under that.
"I'm a Lions fan, and this is the most dysfunctional thing I've ever seen in the NFC North."
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The very first comment under that.
"I'm a Lions fan, and this is the most dysfunctional thing I've ever seen in the NFC North."
Yeah, its bad. Simply, Marc Trestman is not cut out to be a NFL head coach. He lacks control, accountability and has garnered no respect with both his players and coaches.
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Tower, don't worry about the Bears game. The Bears are currently in a full-out, Raiders and Redskins-like, meltdown mode. Here's the latest gem: http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085 (http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085)
And I thought the players had no respect for Trestman and Tucker. Cromer might have stolen the show.
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From what I understand, Bruce Arians wanted that job, but the Bears insisted that he hire Mel Tucker. And Mel Tucker was required to play the Tampa Two defense last year.
Seriously, what organization does this? Where has stuff like this *ever* worked?
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From what I understand, Bruce Arians wanted that job, but the Bears insisted that he hire Mel Tucker. And Mel Tucker was required to play the Tampa Two defense last year.
Seriously, what organization does this? Where has stuff like this *ever* worked?
Why, simplistic thinking. "We can get rid of Lovie, but keep his defense. Results will be roughly the same." The vets on defense last year, Briggs, Peppers, Tillman, never brought into that. Doomed from the start.
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From what I understand, Bruce Arians wanted that job, but the Bears insisted that he hire Mel Tucker. And Mel Tucker was required to play the Tampa Two defense last year.
Seriously, what organization does this? Where has stuff like this *ever* worked?
The Bears actually wanted Arians to keep Rod Marinelli as DC and continue running the Tampa 2, which was ridiculous to begin with because Marinelli wasn't going to stick around without Lovie.
The Bears also made coaching candidates go through a mock press conference during their interviews. Apparently, doing a majority of the Colts' pressers while winning NFL Coach of the Year wasn't good enough.
Make no mistake, Arians wanted to be the head coach of the Bears, but the Bears botched it.
BTW, how is Kromer still employed by the Bears?
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BTW, how is Kromer still employed by the Bears?
Because there's no accountability under Trestman.
Frankly, I hope it gets worse. Sadly, I think the Bears are going to keep Trestman. However, stuff like this makes it very, very difficult for Phil Emery & co. to sell the idea of another year. Its one thing to lose games, its another to completely lose control of your team.
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The Bears actually wanted Arians to keep Rod Marinelli as DC and continue running the Tampa 2, which was ridiculous to begin with because Marinelli wasn't going to stick around without Lovie.
The Bears also made coaching candidates go through a mock press conference during their interviews. Apparently, doing a majority of the Colts' pressers while winning NFL Coach of the Year wasn't good enough.
That's right. Thanks.
Forgot about the mock press conference. Hilarious.
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I'll be more then a little upset if Trestman gets another year. Agree, it's one thing to lose games but Trestman has no control over the locker room. What a joke of a season. I feel bad for Forte.
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I'll be more then a little upset if Trestman gets another year. Agree, it's one thing to lose games but Trestman has no control over the locker room. What a joke of a season. I feel bad for Forte.
Hear you Juan - as a Packers fan behind the FIB curtain, I at least want this rivalry to be competitive. Not even close right now and it is sad how far the Bears have fallen. I hope the next management team gets it right.
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As Detroit and Green Bay move towards their season finale in Lambeau, let me toss this little stat out there. Matthew Stafford has never won a road game against a team with a >.500 winning percentage. Detroit needs to win the next two weeks against the Vikings and Bears or they will be sitting home this year. They need them both because I don't think 10 wins will be enough.
Looking at this NFC playoff picture it looks like there is a very real chance an 11 win team could be on the outside looking in. Has that ever happened before?
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Looking at this NFC playoff picture it looks like there is a very real chance an 11 win team could be on the outside looking in. Has that ever happened before?
Don't know bit for the 2nd time there will be a team under .500
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At the moment, it is looking like a trip to Seattle may be the only thing that would keep GB out of the Super Bowl (though admittedly as bad as NO has been, playing in NO seems like something to avoid as well). Makes Packers game against Detroit a must win (unless of course they and Seattle both lose a game). Going to ATL, ARI, DET, etc., may actually be an advantage for GB to play in a controlled climate.
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Tower, don't worry about the Bears game. The Bears are currently in a full-out, Raiders and Redskins-like, meltdown mode. Here's the latest gem: http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085 (http://deadspin.com/bears-oc-gives-tearful-apology-for-criticizing-jay-cutl-1670246085)
My question is: When does Jay Cutler apologize for playing like, well, Jay Cutler?
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I understand that the Packers had been on a roll until today, but man has it been brutal. In the 1st 3 Packers drives Eddie Lacy played in 2 of them (not sure why he didn't play in all 3 but what do I know?). Eddie Lacy ran 8 times for 72 yards and a touchdown in those 1st 2 drives. He's had 6 rushing attempts since then, in nearly 3 quarters of play, while we've been within a touchdown up until the last field goal the Bills got. Meanwhile, our passing game is 13-36 for 133 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 INTs. Where is Eddie?
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They were trying to limit Eddie this week, Bills getting the better of them.
I stayed far away from from Packers this week in fantasy, except for Crosby. Front line is too good.
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Packers hoping for a....Viking victory! :o :o :o
That's like Lenny holding hands with Chicos
Like Ners cutting the lawn for the Dawsons
Like...I'll quit while I'm ahead. Should be a good game.
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This game just bit GB in the ass. Best chance on the road to the SB was to go thru Green Bay. They're likely bf'ed now and will lose on the road in the playoffs, hey?
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This game just bit GB in the ass. Best chance on the road to the SB was to go thru Green Bay. They're likely bf'ed now and will lose on the road in the playoffs, hey?
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Vikings/Lions game means little to GB, GB controls their own destiny as far as the division. The game that really matters for home field advantage is Niners/Seahawks... go Niners!
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Forgettin' 'bout Arizona?
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No one actually thinks the Lions win in Green Bay. GB gets one home game. Beyond that is a crapshoot.
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Forgettin' 'bout Arizona?
No good
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As a fan of the mighty (5-8-1) Panthers, I actually will be doing something I never do tomorrow night: rooting for Cutler and the Bears to win.
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I understand that the Packers had been on a roll until today, but man has it been brutal. In the 1st 3 Packers drives Eddie Lacy played in 2 of them (not sure why he didn't play in all 3 but what do I know?). Eddie Lacy ran 8 times for 72 yards and a touchdown in those 1st 2 drives. He's had 6 rushing attempts since then, in nearly 3 quarters of play, while we've been within a touchdown up until the last field goal the Bills got. Meanwhile, our passing game is 13-36 for 133 yards, 0 TDs, and 2 INTs. Where is Eddie?
They used the run to set up the pass....and the quarterback had a bad day and receivers kept dropping the ball. I knew this game was going to be a problem. Good news is the Packers go 2-0 and they can do no worse than the #2 seed. The bad news is that Seattle looks the likely #1 and they are on a roll right now. Not only does that mean a potential road game in the NFCCG, but also Dallas coming to Green Bay in the divisional round instead of Atlanta or a WC team.
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They used the run to set up the pass....and the quarterback had a bad day and receivers kept dropping the ball. I knew this game was going to be a problem. Good news is the Packers go 2-0 and they can do no worse than the #2 seed. The bad news is that Seattle looks the likely #1 and they are on a roll right now. Not only does that mean a potential road game in the NFCCG, but also Dallas coming to Green Bay in the divisional round instead of Atlanta or a WC team.
I still think Seattle trips up in one of the next two games. We will see. Who gets the 1 seed if GB Seattle and Dallas all finish 12-4
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They used the run to set up the pass....and the quarterback had a bad day and receivers kept dropping the ball. I knew this game was going to be a problem. Good news is the Packers go 2-0 and they can do no worse than the #2 seed. The bad news is that Seattle looks the likely #1 and they are on a roll right now. Not only does that mean a potential road game in the NFCCG, but also Dallas coming to Green Bay in the divisional round instead of Atlanta or a WC team.
Eh, Dallas doesn't scare me a ton. They are good, but their weaknesses(pass rush) are Green Bay's weaknesses (throwing downfield against 7 man coverage). Only playoff team that truly scares me is Seattle with Detroit being a concern as well(if we have to play on the road)
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I still think Seattle trips up in one of the next two games. We will see. Who gets the 1 seed if GB Seattle and Dallas all finish 12-4
According to the ESPN Playoff Machine assuming a 4 team tie at 12-4 (DAL, GB, SEA win out)
1st Seed - Seattle
NFC West Champ (Wins tie break over Arizona based on head-to-head win percentage.)
Wins tie break over Dallas and Green Bay based on best win percentage in conference games.
2nd Seed - Green Bay
NFC North Champ
Wins tie break over Dallas based on best win percentage in conference games.
Dallas gets third seed, AZ gets fifth seed.
Assuming DAL, GB, AZ win out.
AZ finishes with 1-seed at 13-3
2nd Seed - Green Bay
NFC North Champ
Wins tie break over Dallas based on best win percentage in conference games.
4th Seed - Atlanta
NFC South Champ (Wins tie break over New Orleans based on head-to-head win percentage.)
5th Seed - Seattle
Wins tie break over Detroit based on best win percentage in common games. Wins tie break over Philadelphia based on best win percentage in conference games.
6th Seed - Detroit
Wins tie break over Philadelphia based on best win percentage in conference games
Interesting note, the Packers are likely to lose a tie-breaker with AZ based on strength of victory. If so, the Packers most probable hope for the #1 seed is for a Seattle win over the Cardinals in Week 16 and SF & STL wins over AZ & SEA, respectively, in Week 17.
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I still think Seattle trips up in one of the next two games. We will see. Who gets the 1 seed if GB Seattle and Dallas all finish 12-4
Here is my understanding.
1. If all three clubs played one another, if one of the teams beat both of the others, they would be #1. (That didn't happen. GB didn't play Dallas.)
2. Next is conference record. If every team wins out, Seattle will be 10-2, GB 9-3, Dallas 8-4.
Therefore Seattle #1, GB #2, Dallas #3.
Interestingly, Dallas would be ahead of Seattle without Green Bay due to their head to head victory. Seattle would be ahead of GB without Dallas for the same reason. Green Bay would be ahead of Dallas without Seattle due to better conference record.
Now if the Lions win out along with Seattle and Dallas, they would have the same conference record as Seattle. So it would go to the third tie-breaker - best record in common games. I would have to look that up to see who would be better there.
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According to the ESPN Playoff Machine assuming a 4 team tie at 12-4 (DAL, GB, SEA win out)
1st Seed - Seattle
NFC West Champ (Wins tie break over Arizona based on head-to-head win percentage.)
Wins tie break over Dallas and Green Bay based on best win percentage in conference games.
2nd Seed - Green Bay
NFC North Champ
Wins tie break over Dallas based on best win percentage in conference games.
Dallas gets third seed, AZ gets fifth seed.
Assuming DAL, GB, AZ win out.
AZ finishes with 1-seed at 13-3
2nd Seed - Green Bay
NFC North Champ
Wins tie break over Dallas based on best win percentage in conference games.
4th Seed - Atlanta
NFC South Champ (Wins tie break over New Orleans based on head-to-head win percentage.)
5th Seed - Seattle
Wins tie break over Detroit based on best win percentage in common games. Wins tie break over Philadelphia based on best win percentage in conference games.
6th Seed - Detroit
Wins tie break over Philadelphia based on best win percentage in conference games
Interesting note, the Packers are likely to lose a tie-breaker with AZ based on strength of victory. If so, the Packers most probable hope for the #1 seed is for a Seattle win over the Cardinals in Week 16 and SF & STL wins over AZ & SEA, respectively, in Week 17.
Go Cardinals.
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Go Cardinals. I'd rather go there than Seattle, Philly, Detroit, or Dallas.
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They used the run to set up the pass....and the quarterback had a bad day and receivers kept dropping the ball. I knew this game was going to be a problem. Good news is the Packers go 2-0 and they can do no worse than the #2 seed. The bad news is that Seattle looks the likely #1 and they are on a roll right now. Not only does that mean a potential road game in the NFCCG, but also Dallas coming to Green Bay in the divisional round instead of Atlanta or a WC team.
I get that but that's my problem with it. Again, the Packers have played great outside of yesterday, and McCarthy has called numerous games in a row that I have been very impressed with. He deserves a ton of credit for the way we have come out and blown teams out to start games with some great game plans out of the gate. This is why I was so baffled that he had to have seen that the run game was working and the pass game simply was off, for one reason or another. For a guy who has preached a balanced offense since the day he arrived, even when John Kuhn was forced into a feature back role, we had 6 more incompletions than rushing attempts yesterday in a game that was a 1 possession game for all but about 5 minutes. 42 passing attempts (with just 17 of them completions, and 2 picks to 0 TDs) to just 19 rushing attempts (that yielded 116 yards I believe). The defense was defending the pass regardless of whether we were running the ball or throwing the ball. Take what they're giving you.
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I get that but that's my problem with it. Again, the Packers have played great outside of yesterday, and McCarthy has called numerous games in a row that I have been very impressed with. He deserves a ton of credit for the way we have come out and blown teams out to start games with some great game plans out of the gate. This is why I was so baffled that he had to have seen that the run game was working and the pass game simply was off, for one reason or another. For a guy who has preached a balanced offense since the day he arrived, even when John Kuhn was forced into a feature back role, we had 6 more incompletions than rushing attempts yesterday in a game that was a 1 possession game for all but about 5 minutes. 42 passing attempts (with just 17 of them completions, and 2 picks to 0 TDs) to just 19 rushing attempts (that yielded 116 yards I believe). The defense was defending the pass regardless of whether we were running the ball or throwing the ball. Take what they're giving you.
I don't disagree with you, but if/when they lose a game without giving Rogers every opportunity to win it, McCarthy will get ROASTED.
"We have an all-world QB, and Mike wants to run it 30 times? What's his problem?!"
So, the short answer is, when they lose, McCarthy will always be wrong.
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I don't disagree with you, but if/when they lose a game without giving Rogers every opportunity to win it, McCarthy will get ROASTED.
"We have an all-world QB, and Mike wants to run it 30 times? What's his problem?!"
So, the short answer is, when they lose, McCarthy will always be wrong.
Fair point.
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Here is my understanding.
1. If all three clubs played one another, if one of the teams beat both of the others, they would be #1. (That didn't happen. GB didn't play Dallas.)
2. Next is conference record. If every team wins out, Seattle will be 10-2, GB 9-3, Dallas 8-4.
Therefore Seattle #1, GB #2, Dallas #3.
Interestingly, Dallas would be ahead of Seattle without Green Bay due to their head to head victory. Seattle would be ahead of GB without Dallas for the same reason. Green Bay would be ahead of Dallas without Seattle due to better conference record.
Now if the Lions win out along with Seattle and Dallas, they would have the same conference record as Seattle. So it would go to the third tie-breaker - best record in common games. I would have to look that up to see who would be better there.
This is my understanding as well.
There are two or three scenarios that involve GB gaining the #1 seed without having to win out, but it involves such elements as multiple ties, temperatures in hell dropping to 31degF, pigs and birds making love, etc.
In all likelihood, the Packers most realistic hope of getting the #1 seed involves:
1) GB winning out.
2) Seattle over Arizona Week 16.
3) St Louis over Seattle Week 17.
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The Bears make me sad.
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Harbaugh?
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Harbaugh?
No way the McCaskeys hire Harbaugh.
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The Bears make me sad.
It's nice to see losing teams play hard the last few games hard just based on pride.
Bear players have taken the opposite route. Very sad for the League.
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It's nice to see losing teams play hard the last few games hard just based on pride.
Bear players have taken the opposite route. Very sad for the League.
The defense actually looks like they're trying. I think it's because of all the rookies on the field. But the offense? walking through it
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I need the Bears to tank one more game and then regain their self respect and dignity.
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As a cheesehead I hope cutler retires a bear. But seriously, imagine what kind of roster they could field if not paying jay $18mil a year
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I need the Bears to tank one more game and then regain their self respect and dignity.
From the look of things, there's not much for you to worry about.
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As a cheesehead I hope cutler retires a bear. But seriously, imagine what kind of roster they could field if not paying jay $18mil a year
People keep quoting what they're paying Jay. It was the right decision, for this team, at this time. It was market price. It's not an insult. And, it's not like they could suddenly field an all-pro team with Jay's contract since those players weren't available this offseason. And, further, none of it matters if coaching is the problem it seems to be.
But go ahead and keep looking silly.
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People keep quoting what they're paying Jay. It was the right decision, for this team, at this time. It was market price. It's not an insult. And, it's not like they could suddenly field an all-pro team with Jay's contract since those players weren't available this offseason. And, further, none of it matters if coaching is the problem it seems to be.
But go ahead and keep looking silly.
This. People don't seem to realize the cap hit isn't that bad. Plus the defense is god awful and Trestman couldn't coach a pee-wee team.
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People keep quoting what they're paying Jay. It was the right decision, for this team, at this time. It was market price. It's not an insult. And, it's not like they could suddenly field an all-pro team with Jay's contract since those players weren't available this offseason. And, further, none of it matters if coaching is the problem it seems to be.
But go ahead and keep looking silly.
im just glad he'll be around next year for more interceptions
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This. People don't seem to realize the cap hit isn't that bad. Plus the defense is god awful and Trestman couldn't coach a pee-wee team.
No, an $18 mil cap hit for a good QB is not a bad deal.
Cutler is NOT a good QB.
And unless someone else wants him - very unlikely - he is gonna be a Bear for at least 2 more years. The cap hit is too big to cut him.
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This. People don't seem to realize the cap hit isn't that bad. Plus the defense is god awful and Trestman couldn't coach a pee-wee team.
Yes but, in this case you can't separate the two. Cutler was signed to that contract because the great QB whisperer, trestman was going to be the one to finally get through to Jay. Jay was his guy, and the two are forever linked. Is that on Cutler? No it really isn't. Like the rest of this train wreck, it is on Phil and Phillips. Jay just isnt a good football player. Market rate or not, the bears gave a large contract to a bad football player. Of course they had a choice. Had they put a franchise tag on him, how much of a better position would they be in right now when they really have to rebuild the entire team? Heck, would he have played better in a contract year (previous season seems to indicate he would have)? They already know they need a new QB, and have to find a way to get one (at least they should). If Jay was walking away, they would actually be in a better position, as they could go get one via draft or FA. No, I don't know who that is, but the fact is, they have to do it anyway, but would not have to worry about paying the other guy for another two years in the process of a complete rebuild.
It's why they should not fire trestman, unless Phil goes first. What good coach is going to want this job right now, knowing you are stuck with a crap GM, a bad QB, and an aging team for your first couple years? Firing trestman and staff doesn't get it done. A complete house cleaning from the top down is what is needed.
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I think that's all a bit reactionary. I'm done defending anyone on this team. But clearly something went wrong somewhere this season. Cutler isn't a "bad" football player. He's an average NFL QB with an elite arm. Go watch the Jets or the Texans or the Rams to see "bad" QBs. Alot of very smart football people forecasted a great year for Cutler this year based on a variety of things. Its not just some idiots with blinders on at Halas Hall. But he's played like crap, in an offense that has sputtered all year long. Trestman can't seem to figure out how to properly utilize one of the top 5 RBs in the league so I'm not shocked when a QB is struggling. This offense has been listing for 6-7 weeks, before everyone gave up.
I did find it hilarious when Gruden spent 5 minutes blaming a lack of discipline on offense on Cutler's snap count. Tons of OL penalties on a unit that is...hmmm, coached by Aaron Kromer. He "flat out" refused to blame the coaching staff for anything last night. Marquess Wilson gets multiple false starts, they show Cutler pulling him aside walking off the field to explain why he ran a route incorrectly, but Gruden won't acknowledge that Trestman, Kromer, and crew don't have a unnatural carnal knowledgeing clue.
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I think that's all a bit reactionary.
It isn't if using the franchise tag is exactly what you thought they should have done with Cutler a year or so ago. The only thing the guy up has ever proven is that he has some talent, but is inconsistent to bad as a QB. Had they gone that route, they'd be able to walk away from the guy in two weeks and be in much better position to rebuild this mess.
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I can absolutely see the allure of Jay. I've defended him before.
But, the truth is, maybe Jay is just empty calories.
He's like a guy who hits 15 homers a year because he guesses on every pitch and runs into 15 fastballs that he guessed right on. The 15 homers may look good, every good pitcher is going to throw him 3 sliders and strike him out.
Empty calories.
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He's like a guy who hits 15 homers a year because he guesses on every pitch and runs into 15 fastballs that he guessed right on. The 15 homers may look good, every good pitcher is going to throw him 3 sliders and strike him out.
"Sign this guy!" -Doug Melvin, probably.
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I can absolutely see the allure of Jay. I've defended him before.
But, the truth is, maybe Jay is just empty calories.
He's like a guy who hits 15 homers a year because he guesses on every pitch and runs into 15 fastballs that he guessed right on. The 15 homers may look good, every good pitcher is going to throw him 3 sliders and strike him out.
Empty calories.
I think he's more like the 25-30 HR guy who also strikes out 125 times a year. He's gonna win you some games by going yard (see SF, see alot of his 4th quarter comebacks last year), but he's also gonna leave guys on base and make you tear your hair out.
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I think he's more like the 25-30 HR guy who also strikes out 125 times a year. He's gonna win you some games by going yard (see SF, see alot of his 4th quarter comebacks last year), but he's also gonna leave guys on base and make you tear your hair out.
Mark Reynolds - .196 and 22 HR
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I think that's all a bit reactionary. I'm done defending anyone on this team. But clearly something went wrong somewhere this season. Cutler isn't a "bad" football player. He's an average NFL QB with an elite arm. Go watch the Jets or the Texans or the Rams to see "bad" QBs. Alot of very smart football people forecasted a great year for Cutler this year based on a variety of things. Its not just some idiots with blinders on at Halas Hall. But he's played like crap, in an offense that has sputtered all year long. Trestman can't seem to figure out how to properly utilize one of the top 5 RBs in the league so I'm not shocked when a QB is struggling. This offense has been listing for 6-7 weeks, before everyone gave up.
I did find it hilarious when Gruden spent 5 minutes blaming a lack of discipline on offense on Cutler's snap count. Tons of OL penalties on a unit that is...hmmm, coached by Aaron Kromer. He "flat out" refused to blame the coaching staff for anything last night. Marquess Wilson gets multiple false starts, they show Cutler pulling him aside walking off the field to explain why he ran a route incorrectly, but Gruden won't acknowledge that Trestman, Kromer, and crew don't have a unnatural carnal knowledgeing clue.
Cutler IS a bad football player. 9 years with one playoff appearance and one Pro Bowl for a season where he threw 25 TD passes with 18 Ints. You replace him with Ryan Fitzpatrick and the record is as good or better.
I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.
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I think that's all a bit reactionary. I'm done defending anyone on this team. But clearly something went wrong somewhere this season. Cutler isn't a "bad" football player. He's an average NFL QB with an elite arm. Go watch the Jets or the Texans or the Rams to see "bad" QBs. Alot of very smart football people forecasted a great year for Cutler this year based on a variety of things. Its not just some idiots with blinders on at Halas Hall. But he's played like crap, in an offense that has sputtered all year long. Trestman can't seem to figure out how to properly utilize one of the top 5 RBs in the league so I'm not shocked when a QB is struggling. This offense has been listing for 6-7 weeks, before everyone gave up.
I did find it hilarious when Gruden spent 5 minutes blaming a lack of discipline on offense on Cutler's snap count. Tons of OL penalties on a unit that is...hmmm, coached by Aaron Kromer. He "flat out" refused to blame the coaching staff for anything last night. Marquess Wilson gets multiple false starts, they show Cutler pulling him aside walking off the field to explain why he ran a route incorrectly, but Gruden won't acknowledge that Trestman, Kromer, and crew don't have a unnatural carnal knowledgeing clue.
That last part with Wilson is especially true. A couple of "Bears fans" that I know we're ripping cutler for yelling at Wilson. Wilson is pretty much still a rookie. Jay looked really calm and looked like he was trying to teach him. Don't know if he ran the wrong route or if he just under threw it but looked like he was teaching Wilson. Also would much rather have Cutty than Ryan Fitzpatrick.
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That last part with Wilson is especially true. A couple of "Bears fans" that I know we're ripping cutler for yelling at Wilson. Wilson is pretty much still a rookie. Jay looked really calm and looked like he was trying to teach him. Don't know if he ran the wrong route or if he just under threw it but looked like he was teaching Wilson. Also would much rather have Cutty than Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Yeah, but Jay never had cool nicknames. In Buffalo, he was nicknamed "Fitzmagic" and "The Amish Rifle".
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I think he's more like the 25-30 HR guy who also strikes out 125 times a year. He's gonna win you some games by going yard (see SF, see alot of his 4th quarter comebacks last year), but he's also gonna leave guys on base and make you tear your hair out.
Jay = Carlos Gomez?
You recognize the talent. You love him when it's going well.
But, when it goes bad, he looks REALLY BAD.
(BTW, I LOVE Gomez defensively, but offensively, he'll drive you nuts, YAR!).
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Jay = Carlos Gomez?
You recognize the talent. You love him when it's going well.
But, when it goes bad, he looks REALLY BAD.
(BTW, I LOVE Gomez defensively, but offensively, he'll drive you nuts, YAR!).
I get where you're going with this, but Gomez in the last two years has an All Star appearance, gold glove award, and led all NL position players in WAR in 2013. Both players can be maddening, but Gomez is at a much higher level than Cutler
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I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.
You're really gonna say Cutler is the reason for the firing of Ron Turner, Mike Martz, and Mike Tice? 2 guys in Turner and Tice who have never been OCs again, and a guy in Martz who was still living in the success of a system that had worked a decade prior? You can blame Cutler for what happened with Lovie perhaps, but the dude had terrible OCs, maybe average with Ron Tuner, thats a fact. Tice had no business being an OC.
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I get where you're going with this, but Gomez in the last two years has an All Star appearance, gold glove award, and led all NL position players in WAR in 2013. Both players can be maddening, but Gomez is at a much higher level than Cutler
Totally fair.
Tough to compare across sports as well.
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So hard to watch. I never thought for a second they'd fire Trestman, but a couple more of these type of games and maybe they'll have no choice.
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Carmen and Jurko were talking about it today. Brought up an interesting question if people would rather see the Bears keep Jay but fire Emery and Trestman. Or give those two another shot and ship out Jay. Overwhelming majority said to get rid of Emery and Trestman.
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Carmen and Jurko were talking about it today. Brought up an interesting question if people would rather see the Bears keep Jay but fire Emery and Trestman. Or give those two another shot and ship out Jay. Overwhelming majority said to get rid of Emery and Trestman.
I'm down with that.
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I'm down with that.
First, all football responsibilities need to be taken away from Ted Philips. Make him VP for Finance only and hire a co-equal football man to run football ops. Then let him hire a new GM and together make a decision on the coach.
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First, all football responsibilities need to be taken away from Ted Philips. Make him VP for Finance only and hire a co-equal football man to run football ops. Then let him hire a new GM and together make a decision on the coach.
Agreed, Ted is a great finance guy but that's all. He's not a good football mind. Need a strong GM and that weird president of football operations position.
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Cutler IS a bad football player. 9 years with one playoff appearance and one Pro Bowl for a season where he threw 25 TD passes with 18 Ints. You replace him with Ryan Fitzpatrick and the record is as good or better.
I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.
I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."
Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!
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I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."
Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!
Ssshhh. We're all just Bears haters.
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I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."
Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!
I had to be a Bear (Cutler) hater. I worked in Kenosha - lots of Bear fans there.
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I thought some folks here (especially you and I) were tough on Cutler. But Gruden absolutely killed him all game long. And then afterward, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young pulverized him verbally. At one point, Dilfer felt so bad about how savagely they were attacking him that he said something like, "We're just talking about Jay the football player here. As a person, he's a great guy."
Actually, I understand he's quite a douchebag as person, too. But Dilfer felt he had to say something nice!
He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.
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He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.
I get your point, but the QB has to give off a positive attitude ON THE FIELD.
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I think that's all a bit reactionary. I'm done defending anyone on this team. But clearly something went wrong somewhere this season. Cutler isn't a "bad" football player. He's an average NFL QB with an elite arm. Go watch the Jets or the Texans or the Rams to see "bad" QBs. Alot of very smart football people forecasted a great year for Cutler this year based on a variety of things. Its not just some idiots with blinders on at Halas Hall. But he's played like crap, in an offense that has sputtered all year long. Trestman can't seem to figure out how to properly utilize one of the top 5 RBs in the league so I'm not shocked when a QB is struggling. This offense has been listing for 6-7 weeks, before everyone gave up.
I did find it hilarious when Gruden spent 5 minutes blaming a lack of discipline on offense on Cutler's snap count. Tons of OL penalties on a unit that is...hmmm, coached by Aaron Kromer. He "flat out" refused to blame the coaching staff for anything last night. Marquess Wilson gets multiple false starts, they show Cutler pulling him aside walking off the field to explain why he ran a route incorrectly, but Gruden won't acknowledge that Trestman, Kromer, and crew don't have a unnatural carnal knowledgeing clue.
I really couldn't understand why Gruden was taking everythign out on the players and literally didn't mention the coaches or staff (as a whole) once. Then someone showed me this..
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B48wDJyIEAEVCjV.png)
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He's not. He does a lot of charity work but you know. Fitting your narrative again. I get why though, he gives off that don't care attitude but he is a genuine dude. I've met him before.
You know what, I shouldn't have said that. I don't know him. Neither do you, of course.
Cutler might be the greatest guy in the world. He might be a douchebag. Charity? Bobby Knight, Mel Gibson, Justin Bieber and Dick Cheney have done charity work, too. Doesn't mean they aren't douchebags. And some who never do charity work are great people.
Still, just because I think Cutler is a tool doesn't mean I'm right. He very well might be Mr. Wonderful.
In the future, I will keep such opinions to myself unless I know for sure.
I do know for sure he is not a guy I would want quarterbacking my team.
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Reports are starting to come out that Trestman will be fired at the end of the season. Emery is 50/50. It'd be nice to see ownership step up and acknowledge the train wreck and move on.
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I always loved the excuse that it's not his fault because he's had to deal with so many coaches and OCs. Umm.... the reason he's had that many is because he is Jay Cutler. Winners don't get their coaches fired every other year.
Cutler was actually 18-9 under Martz with a trip to the conference title game. Martz resigned in part because of his relationship with Cutler and in part because his offense was a terrible fit for such a porous o-line and Lovie wanted to run the ball more, which makes the hire itself interesting. Hue Jackson (who interviewed) would have been a much better hire and fit. Bruce Arians, Jim Caldwell and Todd Haley were also all available and all better options than Martz (don't recall if any of them interviewed).
Mike Tice was promoted because no legit OC wanted to come to Chicago and run a talent-deprived offense for a head coach who was likely gone after the season (not a great long-term career move). Regardless, Cutler went 10-5 as a starter with an overwhelmed Tice.
The fact is, Cutler won two-thirds of his starts under Martz and Tice so he was a "winner" during those stretches. Did he play up to his believed potential? No. Does he deserve a decent amount of blame for the Bears' rolling through OCs? Of course, he does. That doesn't change the fact that the Bears made some bad hires, lacked talent offensively and still won games. The "coach killer" narrative is an easy one and a lazy one. Let me be clear: Cutler definitely deserves blame for the Bears oft-changing OCs, but he wasn't the primary problem.
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Mark Reynolds - .196 and 22 HR
Forget Mark Reynolds. He's nothing compared to Rob Deer.
In eight full seasons between '86 and '93:
- Led the league in K's four times, came in 2nd twice, and never got out of the Top 8.
- Was in the top ten for AB/HR five times, led the league once of those five.
- Finished in the top 5 for E (as a RF) six times.
- Is 5th all-time for career range factor (9 innings) as a RF.
- Finished in the top 10 for HR four times, twice for BB
Although I will give you credit, the most comparable player to Rob Deer (according to baseball-reference.com) is Mark Reynolds.
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Totally fair.
Tough to compare across sports as well.
I've said it before: he's Carlos Zambrano! Temperamental, tons of talent, shows flashes of brilliance, show flashes of incompetence, polarizing figure among fans, too talented to give up on, yet too inconsistent to trust in the biggest spots.
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Reports are starting to come out that Trestman will be fired at the end of the season. Emery is 50/50. It'd be nice to see ownership step up and acknowledge the train wreck and move on.
So they might let Emery make another coaching hire after this dumpster fire?
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So they might let Emery make another coaching hire after this dumpster fire?
I assume he'd go with an up-and-coming guy like Corey Chamblin or perhaps a guy who's been arooond the block a few times like John Hufnagel.
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I've said it before: he's Carlos Zambrano! Temperamental, tons of talent, shows flashes of brilliance, show flashes of incompetence, polarizing figure among fans, too talented to give up on, yet too inconsistent to trust in the biggest spots.
That's probably giving Jay too much credit. Zambrano spread 3 all star appearances across a 5 year span. He wasn't just "he could be this, if". He won 16 or more games three times (once leading the NL), and had 5 diff ERA's under 3.50. Plus for 5 years he threw over 200 innings. Plus the guy hit over .300 three times.
He was one of the all time pains in the ass, without a doubt, but he did more for his team than Jay.
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/12043769/chicago-bears-start-jimmy-clausen-jay-cutler-week?ex_cid=sportscenterFB
Hahaha.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/12043769/chicago-bears-start-jimmy-clausen-jay-cutler-week?ex_cid=sportscenterFB
Hahaha.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
unnatural carnal knowledge me... It's time to stop being a Bears fan when a Domer starts at QB...I will not be tuning in for the first time in a very long time.
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Of course. This season can't end fast enough. I just fear that Clausen will go out and do well. And unnatural carnal knowledge now you have to move Cutler.
unnatural carnal knowledge.
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Of course. This season can't end fast enough. I just fear that Clausen will go out and do well. And unnatural carnal knowledge now you have to move Cutler.
unnatural carnal knowledge.
That's my biggest issue with this move. How in the world do you move Jay Cutler when you're starting Jimmy Claussen over him? You're paying him what you are (I'm not going to argue whether it's wrong or right or necessary, but the fact is they're paying him as a top starting QB) and yet you're saying you're going to take your chances with Jimmy Claussen. This is just a flat out stupid move in every way. You have to know Claussen isn't your long term solution, so it's not like you're seeing what he's got. Just not smart.
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That's my biggest issue with this move. How in the world do you move Jay Cutler when you're starting Jimmy Claussen over him? You're paying him what you are (I'm not going to argue whether it's wrong or right or necessary, but the fact is they're paying him as a top starting QB) and yet you're saying you're going to take your chances with Jimmy Claussen. This is just a flat out stupid move in every way. You have to know Claussen isn't your long term solution, so it's not like you're seeing what he's got. Just not smart.
+1. Why not start the rookie you just drafted? There's plenty of evidence out there on Claussen
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The purpose of this move:
A. Hoping that Clausen does well to lump more of the blame on Jay, a "see it was his fault" move. In a final attempt to save all of their jobs.
B. Throwing the game to ensure Detroit makes the post season.
C. Showcasing Clausen for potential suitors in the off season.
D. Drawing QB names out of a hat.
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Cutler was actually 18-9 under Martz with a trip to the conference title game. Martz resigned in part because of his relationship with Cutler and in part because his offense was a terrible fit for such a porous o-line and Lovie wanted to run the ball more, which makes the hire itself interesting. Hue Jackson (who interviewed) would have been a much better hire and fit. Bruce Arians, Jim Caldwell and Todd Haley were also all available and all better options than Martz (don't recall if any of them interviewed).
Mike Tice was promoted because no legit OC wanted to come to Chicago and run a talent-deprived offense for a head coach who was likely gone after the season (not a great long-term career move). Regardless, Cutler went 10-5 as a starter with an overwhelmed Tice.
The fact is, Cutler won two-thirds of his starts under Martz and Tice so he was a "winner" during those stretches. Did he play up to his believed potential? No. Does he deserve a decent amount of blame for the Bears' rolling through OCs? Of course, he does. That doesn't change the fact that the Bears made some bad hires, lacked talent offensively and still won games. The "coach killer" narrative is an easy one and a lazy one. Let me be clear: Cutler definitely deserves blame for the Bears oft-changing OCs, but he wasn't the primary problem.
The bears won with Martz and Tice in spite of cutler not because of him. Those teams had great defenses, check out their turnover ratios. That's how they won. You always say cutler has such great talent. At what point do you say maybe not so much?
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Desperation moves by an non-relevant team.
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My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.
-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.
-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.
-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.
-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.
-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.
-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.
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My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.
-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.
-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.
-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.
-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.
-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.
-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.
Any idea what cutler will fetch in trade. I'm thinking 4th rounder at most
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My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.
-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.
-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.
-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.
-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.
-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.
-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.
Most of this makes a lot of sense.
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Most of this makes a lot of sense.
Interesting. The Bucs, Titans and Jets all will be looking at QBs in the draft. Most mocks have Mariotta and Winston going to Bucs and Titans in view of current draft rankings, with the Jets going for Hundley from UCLA in second.
Would these teams want Cutler and his 16M (?) per year contract or go with the draftees? Jets have a TON of money next year, so we'll see.
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My Bears sources aren't what they used to be, but an old friend reached out to me late this afternoon. He doesn't know this as fact, so take this with a grain of salt.
-Cutler has played his last game as a Bear.
-They aren't starting Clausen for any other reason than to protect Cutler for whatever trade value exists.
-There are 3 teams that are ideal landing spots for Cutler: Jets/Titans/Bucs in that order. All have enough cap space in '15 & '16 to absorb Cutler's deal.
-If Cutler isn't traded by March 3rd, he'll be released on March 2nd, the Bears will carry the $15.5 in dead money for '15.
-Fales had to be promoted to the 53 man roster because the Pats were going to sign him to their active roster. Fales is not ready to start yet. May start against Vikes.
-No idea on Emery/Trestman and their fate. Kromer and Tucker are gone for sure.
Thanks, Dish.
Unbelievably, he may be attractive in a trade since teams are only committing to 2 years. And there are still plenty of offensive "masterminds" out there that think they can fix Jay Cutler.
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Thanks Dish.
My question is, what would the Bears do if they could trade him? Do they target a veteran, a rookie? Ugh my head hurts.
Maybe they can trade him to Tampa for Josh. lol. What a circus.
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This is just me speculating, but the team I think makes the most sense for Cutler to be traded to is St. Louis. It's not going to happen, they won't be able to clear the cap space.
I don't think the Jets will happen, probably a new coach/GM coming in. I think Lovie would make the move, but they'd have to get out of McCown's contract to really justify it. Titans make the most sense. If Whisenhunt is still the coach, that's where I see him going. After going with two young QB's, Whisenhunt would rather go with someone who gives him a better chance to win. Cutler went to Vandy, it's a semi-easier sell to that fan base than most.
I'd say they'll try to get a 3rd. Not saying they will get that, but that'll probably be the starting point. The fact that a new team is going to absorb the salary cap hit is what will make the pick a lower pick.
I believe the call has been made to let Trestman go. I'm fairly certain that's what Emery wants to do. What'll be interesting to see is if there's a power struggle the Monday after the Vikings game. That's what will be most telling. How they handle letting people go, and whoever is making those calls...that'll be the thing to really watch.
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Dish, if all this is the case, how can Emery keep his job? He just signed Cutler to the big deal before the year. Do they think he can be the guy to rebuild the team at this point? I mean they are going to have to go through some pretty lean years before getting better. And Emery's drafts haven't been very good so far...
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Dish, if all this is the case, how can Emery keep his job? He just signed Cutler to the big deal before the year. Do they think he can be the guy to rebuild the team at this point? I mean they are going to have to go through some pretty lean years before getting better. And Emery's drafts haven't been very good so far...
I don't believe in any way that he can. The Cutler failure is an organizational mistake from the top/down. The decision to not franchise him falls on Emery. The development of Cutler fell on Cutler and Trestman. Trestman was brought in and hired to make Cutler a better QB, and he failed.
The axe should fall on everyone...Emery, Trestman, and Phillips. I don't know if it will though. There's a lot of internal family strife about what to do. It's a mess, it's embarrassing, they are every bit as dysfunctional of an organization as you read. The main problem is, and has been for decades...they have no plan whatsoever. You can clearly see the lack of traditional business skills in the family, they're main business has been the Bears. Family's like the Rooney's, the Mara's have learned how to run football teams properly. The Bears just never have. Look at the struggle in the family to get Jim Finks hired back nearly 40 years ago. Without Jim Finks, the McCaskeys would not have any Super Bowls.
They need a clear, powerful voice, with experience, to lead all football operations. Problem is, the family is too conservative, doesn't want to give up any power (imagined or otherwise). Look at Phillips, Angelo, Emery, Jauron, Trestman...nice men, but not a knockout hire in the group. Lovie is/was the only good hire they've had in 35 years.
Best way to put it...the McCaskey's are sitting on a billion plus dollar organization. The fact that they own the team devalues the franchise by probably 10% (conservative figure).
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Any chance Cutler's contract has holes the size of Kaepernick's in it?
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Any chance Cutler's contract has holes the size of Kaepernick's in it?
Buss Cook is his agent...so no.
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I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.
If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...
...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.
It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.
Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.
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As a GB fan, I'd love to see McDaniels in Chitown. Love watching all the drama down your way.
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I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.
If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...
...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.
It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.
Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.
Interesting. Although, I can't imagine control freak Saban accepting a personnel role but not also taking on coaching responsibilities. Any insights on why you believe that he would?
Also, why would McDaniels be so expensive? He's making less than $2M in NE, he was a bust as a head coach the first time around and is generally characterized as an arrogant pain in the a$$.
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Interesting. Although, I can't imagine control freak Saban accepting a personnel role but not also taking on coaching responsibilities. Any insights on why you believe that he would?
Also, why would McDaniels be so expensive? He's making less than $2M in NE, he was a bust as a head coach the first time around and is generally characterized as an arrogant pain in the a$$.
Saban's career will reach a crossroads, in my opinion, if he wins the national title again. If he wants to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be this year. The Bears have flirted with Saban before, not that it means anything.
McDaniels, of course, is the reason Cutler became a Chicago Bear.
Average going rate for an NFL head coach is roughly about $5 mil, my estimate is McDaniels would be compensated in that neighborhood.
McDaniels and Saban worked together previously and know each other. I think if Saban is going to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be with control over the roster. Just my opinion, but I think these two end up working together some where next season.
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I'm going to get blasted for saying this, and I'm going off a gut feeling here.
If the voices in the McCaskey family that truly want to blow everything up and give someone absolute football authority...
...I believe they will target Nick Saban to be EVP of all football operations, and go after Josh McDaniels to be head coach.
It wouldn't be cheap. Saban would be $8.5 mil per to start, McDaniels probably $5.5 mil per.
Also lots of irony with both in regards to Bears history, more so with McDaniels.
Dish, for a EVP or President type position, I wonder if Mike Holmgren could be in the mix. Looks like Mike is trying to get back into the league. And the Holmgren's and McCaskey's are connected via ties to North Park University.
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Saban's career will reach a crossroads, in my opinion, if he wins the national title again. If he wants to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be this year. The Bears have flirted with Saban before, not that it means anything.
McDaniels, of course, is the reason Cutler became a Chicago Bear.
Average going rate for an NFL head coach is roughly about $5 mil, my estimate is McDaniels would be compensated in that neighborhood.
McDaniels and Saban worked together previously and know each other. I think if Saban is going to go back to the NFL, I believe it will be with control over the roster. Just my opinion, but I think these two end up working together some where next season.
Makes sense.
IIRC, Saban and Angelo had worked together at some point and Saban was a finalist when the Bears chose Lovie, in large part because Saban wanted roster control.
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Dish, for a EVP or President type position, I wonder if Mike Holmgren could be in the mix. Looks like Mike is trying to get back into the league. And the Holmgren's and McCaskey's are connected via ties to North Park University.
The FFW (Fat F*ckin Walrus) did not get it done in Cleveland, why Chicago?
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If Jay is still under center I predict Shanahan. I would hate that, but that's how I think their brains would work.
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The FFW (Fat F*ckin Walrus) did not get it done in Cleveland, why Chicago?
I didn't say it was a good idea. Just that Holmgren and the McCaskeys have some ties together. And frankly, this is a family that hires guys they like and they feel they have a connection/confortable with.
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The bears won with Martz and Tice in spite of cutler not because of him. Those teams had great defenses, check out their turnover ratios. That's how they won. You always say cutler has such great talent. At what point do you say maybe not so much?
This always seems to be the narrative with Cutler. When the team wins, it's in spite of him. When they lose, it's because of him. Cutler DOES have talent. No one with any football sense would question that. He just hasn't been able to put it all together, for whatever reason. Perhaps he'll find a Bruce Arians to his Carson Palmer (a very similar QB to Cutler) and have a career resurgence somewhere. I just can't imagine him being back on the Bears next season after this.
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This always seems to be the narrative with Cutler. When the team wins, it's in spite of him. When they lose, it's because of him. Cutler DOES have talent. No one with any football sense would question that. He just hasn't been able to put it all together, for whatever reason. Perhaps he'll find a Bruce Arians to his Carson Palmer (a very similar QB to Cutler) and have a career resurgence somewhere. I just can't imagine him being back on the Bears next season after this.
Look at the bear teams pre trestmann. Those were great defensive teams and average to below average offensive teams. How can you dispute that? Now the opposite is true, the defense sucks and the offense is supposed to be good except cutler can't carry the team.
If he has talent its not translating on the field. At some point in time the player has to be accountable to show his talent. Just saying he is talented because he has a strong arm doesn't make it true. There is more to being a QB than having a strong arm. The excuses for this guy are mind boggling. He was shipped out of Denver and is now being benched and ready to be shipped out again. That is very telling and there are other people that know more than me and you saying as much. Jay cutler = Jeff george
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From ESPN:
Any team needing a quarterback is a potential suitor, but two executives said they thought Tennessee would be the most logical landing spot for Cutler if he is released or traded.
The thinking is that the Titans will move on from Jake Locker after this season, and they haven't seen enough from Zach Mettenberger to bank on him as their starter. Cutler played college football in the state at Vanderbilt, which could make him more marketable in Tennessee -- a potential consideration for Titans president and CEO Tommy Smith, who has already pledged to spend aggressively in an effort to upgrade the team's roster. The Titans are 2-12 and in the running for a high draft choice, but one of the executives did not see an ideal quarterback fit for coach Ken Whisenhunt early in the draft.
"The kid from Oregon [Marcus Mariota] could be seen as more of a run-around quarterback, and that isn't the type of guy Whisenhunt has traditionally wanted," one of the executives said, before adding that Florida State QB Jameis Winston's off-field concerns could scare the team away from drafting him. "They could add Cutler and justify it as buying time to develop Mettenberger. That would not be a hard sell."
Trading for Cutler would require taking on his guaranteed salary, a strong deterrent. One executive said he could see the Titans giving up a late-round pick for Cutler and trading down from the top of the draft to add picks for restocking the roster. But it is not known whether Tennessee would have interest.
Teams cannot make trades until the first day of the 2015 league year, which is scheduled to begin March 10. According to information on file with the NFL Players Association, Cutler's contract calls for $10 million in 2016 salary to become fully guaranteed if he remains on the roster for the third day of the 2015 league year.
That means the Bears would have to consummate a trade between March 10 and March 11 to avoid becoming liable for another $10 million in guarantees (on top of the $15.5 million that is already fully guaranteed). Two days seems like not much time to get a deal done, but teams planning moves this significant would put out feelers ahead of time and have something in place with time to spare. They would not wait until the first day of the league year.
The team acquiring Cutler would also acquire his contract, which could mean committing to that $10 million for 2016, barring a quick renegotiation.
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Offset language a consideration
There is no way to tell whether Cutler would play along with a trade well enough for the acquiring team to go through with it. One executive noted that Cutler's contract contains offset language. That means if the Bears released Cutler and the quarterback signed with another team in 2015, Chicago would be liable for the $15.5 million guaranteed minus whatever he earned from his new team in the first season.
The Bears would not receive the associated salary-cap relief until a year later.
Cutler could try to force his release, and then sign a bargain contract that compels the Bears to account for a higher percentage of that $15.5 million guarantee. That could spawn a fight over the offset language in the contract, which a person with access to the deal said refers to "any and all compensation received, earned or that reasonably could have been earned" -- seemingly leaving room for interpretation if Cutler spitefully signed a minimum-salary deal with a new team. How much he accepts and how much he could reasonably earn might not be the same.
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Benching Cutler could protect Bears
Benching Cutler for the remainder of the season could be seen as a hedge against liabilities that would come into play if Cutler suffered a serious injury. His $16 million base salary for 2016 was guaranteed for injury at signing, which means the Bears would have to pay that money to him if he suffered a catastrophic injury, but not if they released him. Cutler, who took seven sacks against the Saints, is much less likely to suffer an injury if he's standing on the sideline.
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This always seems to be the narrative with Cutler. When the team wins, it's in spite of him. When they lose, it's because of him. Cutler DOES have talent. No one with any football sense would question that. He just hasn't been able to put it all together, for whatever reason. Perhaps he'll find a Bruce Arians to his Carson Palmer (a very similar QB to Cutler) and have a career resurgence somewhere. I just can't imagine him being back on the Bears next season after this.
I'm not sure I would want a post-knee injury Carson Palmer, and I'm not sure I'd compare him very favorably to Jay Cutler. Carson was a very good quarterback early in his career with the Bengals and then he suffered a pretty dang bad knee injury and hasn't been quite the same player since. In his 2nd year in the league he threw for 3,800+ yards, 32 TDs, and 12 INTs, and in his 3rd year in the league he threw for 4,000+ yards with 28 TDs and 13 INT. He then took a little step back in throwing for 4,100+ yards, 26 TD, and 20 INT in the following year and then shredded his knee early the next season and never was the same (although in his last season with Oakland he got to 4,000+ yards with 22 TD and 14 INT, not bad). Last year with Arians he had 22 INT (to 24 TD). 22 INT simply won't get it done in the NFL. He did have a solid start to this season before being injured again.
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Look at the bear teams pre trestmann. Those were great defensive teams and average to below average offensive teams. How can you dispute that? Now the opposite is true, the defense sucks and the offense is supposed to be good except cutler can't carry the team.
If he has talent its not translating on the field. At some point in time the player has to be accountable to show his talent. Just saying he is talented because he has a strong arm doesn't make it true. There is more to being a QB than having a strong arm. The excuses for this guy are mind boggling. He was shipped out of Denver and is now being benched and ready to be shipped out again. That is very telling and there are other people that know more than me and you saying as much. Jay cutler = Jeff george
Your phrasing was very telling. The pre-Trestman D was "great" and the O was "average to below average," yet the team had some success. Now the D "sucks" (as in, historically bad) but Cutler is to blame because he can't carry the team. If the current D improved to even "average to below average," the Bears would have at least 1-2 more wins and Cutler wouldn't be on the bench, despite his awful season.
Jay Cutler is what he is. He's immensely talented but has middle-of-the-pack results, often because of his TOs. He's the exact player that the previous Bears' FO traded for and the current FO signed to a big-money deal. A great D was often able to overcome his TOs, but he's simply not a QB who's going to carry a bad D. He's basically a surly Matthew Stafford.
Interesting read here from Barnwell
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/ (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/)
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Your phrasing was very telling. The pre-Trestman D was "great" and the O was "average to below average," yet the team had some success. Now the D "sucks" (as in, historically bad) but Cutler is to blame because he can't carry the team. If the current D improved to even "average to below average," the Bears would have at least 1-2 more wins and Cutler wouldn't be on the bench, despite his awful season.
Jay Cutler is what he is. He's immensely talented but has middle-of-the-pack results, often because of his TOs. He's the exact player that the previous Bears' FO traded for and the current FO signed to a big-money deal. A great D was often able to overcome his TOs, but he's simply not a QB who's going to carry a bad D. He's basically a surly Matthew Stafford.
Interesting read here from Barnwell
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/ (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/)
Matthew Stafford is a much better comparison, in my opinion.
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Can we trade Cutler to the Bills and bring back Orton? Seems like the most Bears thing to do.
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Your phrasing was very telling. The pre-Trestman D was "great" and the O was "average to below average," yet the team had some success. Now the D "sucks" (as in, historically bad) but Cutler is to blame because he can't carry the team. If the current D improved to even "average to below average," the Bears would have at least 1-2 more wins and Cutler wouldn't be on the bench, despite his awful season.
Jay Cutler is what he is. He's immensely talented but has middle-of-the-pack results, often because of his TOs. He's the exact player that the previous Bears' FO traded for and the current FO signed to a big-money deal. A great D was often able to overcome his TOs, but he's simply not a QB who's going to carry a bad D. He's basically a surly Matthew Stafford.
Interesting read here from Barnwell
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/ (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-scapegoat/)
Yep. Cutler's performance is very similar to the years under Lovie. Its the defense and special teams that has fallen apart, to a shocking degree. Here's the DVOA numbers for those units in '12, Lovie's final season.
Defense: 1
Special Teams: 6
DVOA so far for this year:
Defense: 29
Special Teams: 24
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I didn't say it was a good idea. Just that Holmgren and the McCaskeys have some ties together. And frankly, this is a family that hires guys they like and they feel they have a connection/confortable with.
Sorry for the tone. The FFW brings it out of me.
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First let me preface this by saying I hatell Troy Aikman. However, it pisses me off that Buck and Aikman are ripping the Bears receivers when you know, if Cutler was playing, they would find a way to criticize his throws. That being said, they have dropped a ton of passes but they have been choking on Clausens dick all day.
I wanted the Bears to get killed today and they can't even do that right.
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Mike's keeping the Buc's in this one.
Take the freaking points. You're up 7 points. Make it a 2 possession game. That's not even a question.
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First let me preface this by saying I hatell Troy Aikman. However, it pisses me off that Buck and Aikman are ripping the Bears receivers when you know, if Cutler was playing, they would find a way to criticize his throws. That being said, they have dropped a ton of passes but they have been choking on Clausens dick all day.
I wanted the Bears to get killed today and they can't even do that right.
they are talking like clausen is the second coming. bears have 14 points with 2 minutes to go, 7 of that on a very short field after a turnover. please.
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Mike's keeping the Buc's in this one.
Take the freaking points. You're up 7 points. Make it a 2 possession game. That's not even a question.
McCown might be the worst quarterback I have ever seen.
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Can we trade Cutler to the Bills and bring back Orton? Seems like the most Bears thing to do.
The Bears thing to do would be to release Cutler and re-sign Cade McNown, mistakenly thinking they were actually re-signing Josh McCown.
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Another ugly win for Detroit. Two red zone picks, 3 special teams gaffes. Just enough. I was reminded that in the 13 season, the Lions led in the 4th quarter of 14 out of 16 games and found ways to lose. This year, 8 of their 11 wins have been come-from-behind wins. 11-4 is astounding. Ah, well. Next weeks game is moved to prime time, so it will be even colder.
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Another ugly win for Detroit. Two red zone picks, 3 special teams gaffes. Just enough. I was reminded that in the 13 season, the Lions led in the 4th quarter of 14 out of 16 games and found ways to lose. This year, 8 of their 11 wins have been come-from-behind wins. 11-4 is astounding. Ah, well. Next weeks game is moved to prime time, so it will be even colder.
Looks like next week's game is the late afternoon game.
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You are correct. One of the local websites had it as the prime time game. That has been changed. Oops.
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Correct. 3:25p start next Sunday. Most likely outcome for the Lions is now two consecutive losses at GB and Dallas, respectively. They're better but probably not yet prime time.
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Completely agree. The headline of the Detroit Free Press print edition today was "Are they for real?" And I don't blame them. As amazing as it sounds, I don't think an 11-4 team is that great.
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McCown might be the worst quarterback I have ever seen.
Have you watched either of Cleveland's last two games?
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Have you watched either of Cleveland's last two games?
+1
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Have you watched either of Cleveland's last two games?
Funny! You gotta be more specific though. Manziel or Hoyer?
I know. The easy answer is both.
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And the Jimmy Clausen experience has come to an end. Out with a concussion and Bears are back to Cutty next week.
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Another ugly win for Detroit. Two red zone picks, 3 special teams gaffes. Just enough. I was reminded that in the 13 season, the Lions led in the 4th quarter of 14 out of 16 games and found ways to lose. This year, 8 of their 11 wins have been come-from-behind wins. 11-4 is astounding. Ah, well. Next weeks game is moved to prime time, so it will be even colder.
Adding to the ugliness was the really dirty play by the Lion's center (Raiola?) stomping on a guy's ankle as he lies face down and defenseless is as cheap as it gets. I assume he'll be suspended. The head hit to a sliding Clausen was pretty bad too. I thought Detroit left that stuff behind when they fired their crazy coach.
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And the Jimmy Clausen experience has come to an end. Out with a concussion and Bears are back to Cutty next week.
They tried to throw Cutler into the dumpster and now that he's been forced back into the starting lineup, the spin will be that they trust him and that they know they can win with him. Only da Bears.
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Adding to the ugliness was the really dirty play by the Lion's center (Raiola?) stomping on a guy's ankle as he lies face down and defenseless is as cheap as it gets. I assume he'll be suspended. The head hit to a sliding Clausen was pretty bad too. I thought Detroit left that stuff behind when they fired their crazy coach.
Screw that guy.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12067760/dominic-raiola-detroit-lions-suspended-one-game-pay
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the Bears might really get screwed if Cutler gets injured
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And the Jimmy Clausen experience has come to an end. Out with a concussion and Bears are back to Cutty next week.
So how are those concussion precautions working out? The hit to the head to Clausen was as violent as you will ever see (and in plain view) yet he was allowed to continue.
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So how are those concussion precautions working out? The hit to the head to Clausen was as violent as you will ever see (and in plain view) yet he was allowed to continue.
Bingo. +100
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So how are those concussion precautions working out? The hit to the head to Clausen was as violent as you will ever see (and in plain view) yet he was allowed to continue.
He passed all the protocols immediately after the hit, and again after the game. Had a delayed reaction/symptoms which I don't believe is uncommon. I'm not sure what else the Drs are supposed to do.
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He passed all the protocols immediately after the hit, and again after the game. Had a delayed reaction/symptoms which I don't believe is uncommon. I'm not sure what else the Drs are supposed to do.
Immediately after he was hit, he popped right up. There was no evidence that he had a concussion. A couple minutes later, the game was over.
Yeah, I am not sure what the doctors could have done.
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He passed all the protocols immediately after the hit, and again after the game. Had a delayed reaction/symptoms which I don't believe is uncommon. I'm not sure what else the Drs are supposed to do.
No he didn't. He just went to the huddle and ran the next play.
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Immediately after he was hit, he popped right up. There was no evidence that he had a concussion. A couple minutes later, the game was over.
Yeah, I am not sure what the doctors could have done.
It's not unusual for a person who received a concussion to show no symptoms for several minutes, hours or even days. That's often why you often hear of players suffering concussions a few days after the game was played but had no idea of the injury during the game.
The flaw in the NFL's concussion protocol is that there's nothing in there about common sense. If the NFL truly had an interest in player safety, Clausen would have been forced to come out of the game after that hit, at minimum to be tested for a concussion. Admittedly, I don't exactly know how that would be enforced because you'd basically have to leave it to the coaching staff and/or team doctors to see a play and react responsibly with "we need to get him outta there" but that's highly unlikely, especially when it's the starting QB.
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From NFL Concussion protocol:
To assist medical teams on game day, there is an "eye in the sky" - a certified athletic trainer sitting in a stadium box who watches the game and television replays to scan the field and look for players with a potential head injury who may require assessment by the medical staff. Also, a neuro-trauma expert physician unaffiliated with an NFL team will be available on the sideline as an extra set of eyes.
The NFL did not follow its own protocol. The whole purpose of the "eye in the sky" is precisely for what happened to Clausen.
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But he showed no "signs of a potential head injury." He didn't seem woozy or was stumbling in any manner. I don't think simply taking a hard hit to the head is something they are looking for.
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From NFL Concussion protocol:
To assist medical teams on game day, there is an "eye in the sky" - a certified athletic trainer sitting in a stadium box who watches the game and television replays to scan the field and look for players with a potential head injury who may require assessment by the medical staff. Also, a neuro-trauma expert physician unaffiliated with an NFL team will be available on the sideline as an extra set of eyes.
The NFL did not follow its own protocol. The whole purpose of the "eye in the sky" is precisely for what happened to Clausen.
Thanks, brandx. Good find.
But he showed no "signs of a potential head injury." He didn't seem woozy or was stumbling in any manner. I don't think simply taking a hard hit to the head is something they are looking for.
Assuming brandx copied verbatim, the verbiage doesn't say "signs of a potential head injury." It simply says "potential head injury." If the hit on Clausen wasn't considered a "potential head injury" then I don't know what could be.
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Thanks, brandx. Good find.
Assuming brandx copied verbatim, the verbiage doesn't say "signs of a potential head injury." It simply says "potential head injury." If the hit on Clausen wasn't considered a "potential head injury" then I don't know what could be.
So what's to keep the Lions on Sunday from sending in a third-string punter after their first defensive play of the game to go into GB's huddle and headbutt Aaron Rodgers? The Lions give up 15 yards, a first down, and their third-string punter is ejected from the game. But now Aaron Rodgers is out of the game until they can assess him? Seems like a decent price to pay if I'm the Lions.
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Thanks, brandx. Good find.
Assuming brandx copied verbatim, the verbiage doesn't say "signs of a potential head injury." It simply says "potential head injury." If the hit on Clausen wasn't considered a "potential head injury" then I don't know what could be.
My point is that just taking a hard hit to the head isn't what they are looking for.
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So what's to keep the Lions on Sunday from sending in a third-string punter after their first defensive play of the game to go into GB's huddle and headbutt Aaron Rodgers? The Lions give up 15 yards, a first down, and their third-string punter is ejected from the game. But now Aaron Rodgers is out of the game until they can assess him? Seems like a decent price to pay if I'm the Lions.
You really think anyone involved in a play like that would have a job in the NFL for very much longer?
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So what's to keep the Lions on Sunday from sending in a third-string punter after their first defensive play of the game to go into GB's huddle and headbutt Aaron Rodgers? The Lions give up 15 yards, a first down, and their third-string punter is ejected from the game. But now Aaron Rodgers is out of the game until they can assess him? Seems like a decent price to pay if I'm the Lions.
Sounds like roughly what the Lions do on a weekly basis.
You can't force a player to come out after every play. Someone's head hits something or someone else with some amount of force on literally every NFL play. Claussen showed nothing to think he was concussed immediately after the hit. It's not like when the Lions concussed Rodgers a couple years ago and he couldn't get up, couldn't open his fist, etc. so the Packers just took a timeout until he collected himself and sent him back out. That was dumb. Not taking Claussen out when he showed no signs wasn't stupid. Although playing football in and of itself is stupid if you don't want your life shortened.
This discussion reminds me of when Gallardo tore his ACL...and the Brewers trainer evaluated him and sent him back out to pitch. I was watching that live and immediately said, "Well, that sucks, he just tore his ACL." I have no idea how you send him back out after that. The human knee does not bend side to side like his did.
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So what's to keep the Lions on Sunday from sending in a third-string punter after their first defensive play of the game to go into GB's huddle and headbutt Aaron Rodgers? The Lions give up 15 yards, a first down, and their third-string punter is ejected from the game. But now Aaron Rodgers is out of the game until they can assess him? Seems like a decent price to pay if I'm the Lions.
What's to stop a team from doing that anyway? Or from taking cheap shots to Rodgers with intent to injure him (or anyone else) during the actual course of the game?
My point is that just taking a hard hit to the head isn't what they are looking for.
But it should be. Obviously they can't see everything, but when it's as blatant as the shot that Clausen took, they have to get him out of the game if the NFL wants to continue to claim that they truly care about player safety, particularly in regards to head injuries. It shouldn't matter if he showed immediate symptoms because concussions aren't like broken bones or torn ligaments - the effect is not always immediate.
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What's to stop a team from doing that anyway? Or from taking cheap shots to Rodgers with intent to injure him (or anyone else) during the actual course of the game?
But it should be. Obviously they can't see everything, but when it's as blatant as the shot that Clausen took, they have to get him out of the game if the NFL wants to continue to claim that they truly care about player safety, particularly in regards to head injuries. It shouldn't matter if he showed immediate symptoms because concussions aren't like broken bones or torn ligaments - the effect is not always immediate.
Should they? Yes, obviously, from both a moral and medical setting. However, the NFL will continue to say and do whatever the hell it wants to - there is so much evidence that supports that out there these days. Who's going to come down on the NFL for anything? Especially with the outcome of the concussion lawsuits.
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But it should be. Obviously they can't see everything, but when it's as blatant as the shot that Clausen took, they have to get him out of the game if the NFL wants to continue to claim that they truly care about player safety, particularly in regards to head injuries. It shouldn't matter if he showed immediate symptoms because concussions aren't like broken bones or torn ligaments - the effect is not always immediate.
If that's what ten standard is going to be, they better expand the rosters to about 80 guys.
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What's to stop a team from doing that anyway? Or from taking cheap shots to Rodgers with intent to injure him (or anyone else) during the actual course of the game?
But it should be. Obviously they can't see everything, but when it's as blatant as the shot that Clausen took, they have to get him out of the game if the NFL wants to continue to claim that they truly care about player safety, particularly in regards to head injuries. It shouldn't matter if he showed immediate symptoms because concussions aren't like broken bones or torn ligaments - the effect is not always immediate.
Agreed. While he didn't show the most apparent concussion symptom (the fencing response/arms going up in the air) he definitely should have been taken out immediately because he took a brutal shot to the head.
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Wow. It was just reported that the Fox affiliate in Chicago will be showing the meaningless Arizona/San Fran game this weekend. Good thing chick and I will be in Milwaukee for the MU game. We'll obviously stay to watch the Pack. Not to show the NFC North Championship game down here is just a crime. What a programming blunder.
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Wow. It was just reported that the Fox affiliate in Chicago will be showing the meaningless Arizona/San Fran game this weekend. Good thing chick and I will be in Milwaukee for the MU game. We'll obviously stay to watch the Pack. Not to show the NFC North Championship game down here is just a crime. What a programming blunder.
Reported by who? Not according to the 506:
http://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2014&wk=17
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Not sure Benny. My son read it somewhere surfing the web. Let's hope you're info is accurate. The Pack is always shown in Chicago when it doesn't conflict with the Bears so I was very surprised.
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As of this afternoon, Fox 32's website says Packers/Lions on Sunday, so maybe he got some bad or obsolete information. I would be in utter shock if WFLD aired the AZ/SF game.
Now if 32 wanted to air the STL/SEA game, that I could understand; in fact, that would be awesome for me since I can pull both WFLD and WITI at my house (meaning I could watch both games that are actually meaningful for the Packers shot at the 1-seed).
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So what's to keep the Lions on Sunday from sending in a third-string punter after their first defensive play of the game to go into GB's huddle and headbutt Aaron Rodgers? The Lions give up 15 yards, a first down, and their third-string punter is ejected from the game. But now Aaron Rodgers is out of the game until they can assess him? Seems like a decent price to pay if I'm the Lions.
So their third string punter must not care about being featured in the 30 for 30 special: The Worst Person To Ever Play Football.
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Harbaugh to Michigan by Tuesday.
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Monday
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Monday, 11:27 AM
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SKOL VIKINGS! (Unfairly) Lose your star player; lose your (weak) starting QB and need to throw in a rookie?
And finish two games above the bottom in the oh-so-tough NFC North? Not bad. Super Bowl almost assured next season.
GO LIONS!!
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SKOL VIKINGS! (Unfairly) Lose your star player; lose your (weak) starting QB and need to throw in a rookie?
And finish two games above the bottom in the oh-so-tough NFC North? Not bad. Super Bowl almost assured next season.
GO LIONS!!
Really not unfair that Peterson was suspended... But as a Bears fan I'm glad they didn't screw up their draft pick. Go lions.
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Go Cowboys
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Lions aren't ready for prime time. Packers 34-14
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Lions aren't ready for prime time. Packers 34-14
What a goal line stand. But why don't you run the ball 4 straight times there?
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Same old Lions. No good, fall behind, and then get dirty. Stafford is a lot like Cutler. Hope Suh enjoyed his last game as a Lion and enjoys his suspension.
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Same old Lions. Know good, fall behind, and then get dirty. Stafford is a lot like Cutler. Hope Suh enjoyed his last game as a Lion and enjoys his suspension.
Embarrassing for their fans. They are a good team but how do you get behind those dirt bags.
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Same old Lions. I saw the first two plays. Then had a heroin overdose, a shooting, and two reported structure fires, one of which at a nursing homes full of retired nuns, both of which ended up being furnace motors that had burned out, filling their respective buildings with smoke. I got back in time to see Stafford's safety, see a 30-14 score, and then think that I was damn close on my score prediction. When I say, "same old Lions", I mean an inability to perform in big games, and a tendency to do stupid, classless stuff.
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Same old Lions. Know good, fall behind, and then get dirty. Stafford is a lot like Cutler. Hope Suh enjoyed his last game as a Lion and enjoys his suspension.
Letting Suh sign elsewhere will be addition by subtraction. No way should he be allowed to play next week.
And Stafford: 0-16 against winning teams on the road. Maybe we had the wrong guy when picking on Jay all year. Nah.......
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Same old Lions. I saw the first two plays. Then had a heroin overdose, a shooting, and two reported structure fires, one of which at a nursing homes full of retired nuns, both of which ended up being furnace motors that had burned out, filling their respective buildings with smoke. I got back in time to see Stafford's safety, see a 30-14 score, and then think that I was damn close on my score prediction. When I say, "same old Lions", I mean an inability to perform in big games, and a tendency to do stupid, classless stuff.
Tower, thank you for all you do as a fireman.
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Everybody has to do something. And I am rarely bored.
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Hardly breaking news, but hearing Trestman and staff will be gone by early tomorrow morning.
Reading the tea leaves, I believe Ted Phillips is gone, and Emery somehow stays. That's not what I want to have happen, but what I'm hearing. This is the Bears though, something that doesn't make sense will happen.
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Hardly breaking news, but hearing Trestman and staff will be gone by early tomorrow morning.
Reading the tea leaves, I believe Ted Phillips is gone, and Emery somehow stays. That's not what I want to have happen, but what I'm hearing. This is the Bears though, something that doesn't make sense will happen.
Cutler?
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Cutler?
If Emery stays, I assume Cutler would stay.
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Hardly breaking news, but hearing Trestman and staff will be gone by early tomorrow morning.
Reading the tea leaves, I believe Ted Phillips is gone, and Emery somehow stays. That's not what I want to have happen, but what I'm hearing. This is the Bears though, something that doesn't make sense will happen.
Keeping Emery makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What good coaching candidate is going to come to Chicago to work for a GM who is on the hot seat?
Clean house completely.
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Emery fired.
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Bears will be reaching out to Harbaugh.
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Bears will be reaching out to Harbaugh.
Coach and personnel role for $8+ million?
Doubtful, but as usual too little, too late for the Bears.
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Need to trade Cutler and start fresh IMO....unless u get a power running game with Harbaugh that any qb could run(see Colin Kaepernick's now deceased career).
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Coach and personnel role for $8+ million?
Doubtful, but as usual too little, too late for the Bears.
I don't think that would be a very smart idea. So would Harbaugh report to? Who is going to reign him in when he needs to be reigned in?
Really the only time the Coach/GM model has worked recently in a sustained fashion is Bellicheck.
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Does Mike Shannahan come to the Bears and reunite with Cutler? As a Bears fan I'd be cool with that hire.
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Letting Suh sign elsewhere will be addition by subtraction. No way should he be allowed to play next week.
And Stafford: 0-16 against winning teams on the road. Maybe we had the wrong guy when picking on Jay all year. Nah.......
I would say there is a .000001% chance that Suh gets suspended.
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I saw the first two plays. Then had a heroin overdose
glad to hear you are ok
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I would say there is a .000001% chance that Suh gets suspended.
I'd put it at about 25% chance given his past history of similar behavior.
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Need to trade Cutler and start fresh IMO....unless u get a power running game with Harbaugh that any qb could run(see Colin Kaepernick's now deceased career).
Flight twackah reports a private jet traveling from SF to Ann Arbor yesterday evening; along with one para-cycle coming in from Bloomington, IN.
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Sure that wasn't one bloodsucker hitchhikin' or takin' the Greyhound from IN, hey?
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I'd put it at about 25% chance given his past history of similar behavior.
Yea, that for sure raises the chances. I think he gets a fine, but Riola also has a history of being a scumbag and his play was a lot more visibly intentional. (If that phrase even makes sense.)
Well I was wrong.
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Yea, that for sure raises the chances. I think he gets a fine, but Riola also has a history of being a scumbag and his play was a lot more visibly intentional. (If that phrase even makes sense.)
If you look at it closely, it is clearly visibly intentional. You know when you step down and hit something like a leg, you don't push down harder and then step off and push down again. You can see the muscles in his leg push down and put extra pressure on Rodgers leg.
That's not something you do if you are just walking backward.
Having said that the NFL will most likely not suspend the best player the Lions have on defense for a playoff game.
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Yea, that for sure raises the chances. I think he gets a fine, but Riola also has a history of being a scumbag and his play was a lot more visibly intentional. (If that phrase even makes sense.)
I agree with that. Riola's was a suspension regardless of his past history. In Suh's case, I think if this was a first offense he'd just be fined some pocket change. I think since he has a history of stomping on players there's a slight chance he actually does get suspended. Most likely just a bigger fine, but still I'd put it at a lot more than 0.000001% chance.
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I agree with that. Riola's was a suspension regardless of his past history. In Suh's case, I think if this was a first offense he'd just be fined some pocket change. I think since he has a history of stomping on players there's a slight chance he actually does get suspended. Most likely just a bigger fine, but still I'd put it at a lot more than 0.000001% chance.
Yep, my number was an exaggeration. You can times those odds by 10K. ;)
I also think Watt may have edged ahead of 12 in the MVP race yesterday.
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Schefter just confirmed what I had heard earlier that the Bears reached out to Harbaugh this morning. Probably nothing there, but they're at least being diligent, fwiw.
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Schefter just confirmed what I had heard earlier that the Bears reached out to Harbaugh this morning. Probably nothing there, but they're at least being diligent, fwiw.
Hearing anything about Phillips or Cutler?
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Hearing anything about Phillips or Cutler?
There is no reason to make any decision now about Cutler. That will be left up to the new GM I am assuming.
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Yep, my number was an exaggeration. You can times those odds by 10K. ;)
I also think Watt may have edged ahead of 12 in the MVP race yesterday.
Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.
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Whatever happened to Davante Adams after his two couple of big games?
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Whatever happened to Davante Adams after his two couple of big games?
The Drops.
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Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.
Agree. Probably wont get a single DPOY VOTE. Crazy
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Yep, my number was an exaggeration. You can times those odds by 10K. ;)
I also think Watt may have edged ahead of 12 in the MVP race yesterday.
Clueless on both issues. Sub has a long history of this sort of thing. And it was Rodgers who wrapped up the MVP yesterday. Watt is Defensive POY.
I've never heard anything as silly as a defensive player on a non-playoff team being the MVP.
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Yep, my number was an exaggeration. You can times those odds by 10K. ;)
I also think Watt may have edged ahead of 12 in the MVP race yesterday.
'Tis true that Watt edged ahead around 2:45p CST. Unfortunately for J.J., the season wasn't over yet.
It doesn't matter who led the 190th lap. It matters who led at the end of the 200th lap... and that was Aaron Rodgers.
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How can any player on a non-playoff team be the MOST valuable player?
If you take Rodgers of GB, - they are not playoff teams. If you take Watt off the Texans, they would miss the same playoffs that they missed WITH him?
Defensive POY - nothing more, nothing less.
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Schefter just confirmed what I had heard earlier that the Bears reached out to Harbaugh this morning. Probably nothing there, but they're at least being diligent, fwiw.
Reaching out last week would have been diligent.
Doing so now is CYA.
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Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.
Not even close in any way whatsoever except for sacks.
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Not even close in any way whatsoever except for sacks.
Really?
Sacks: 22-20.5 Houston
Solo tackles: 59 for both
Force Fumbles: 4 for both
Fumble Recoveries: 5-0 Watt
INT: 1-0 Watt
You don't consider those numbers to be "even close in any way whatsoever?" Interesting.
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Suh, IMHO, gets a suspension. The NFL is very diligent, as they should be, in protectin' their product, i.e., superstar quarterbacks.
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Suh, IMHO, gets a suspension. The NFL is very diligent, as they should be, in protectin' their product, i.e., superstar quarterbacks.
In a weird homer-esque way, I hope he doesn't. No way the Lions beat the Cowboys without him, and I'd much rather see the Packers play the winner of Arizona/Carolina than play Dallas.
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Really?
Sacks: 22-20.5 Houston
Solo tackles: 59 for both
Force Fumbles: 4 for both
Fumble Recoveries: 5-0 Watt
INT: 1-0 Watt
You don't consider those numbers to be "even close in any way whatsoever?" Interesting.
How come you only listed ones that were close? Not to mention that Houston plays on a much, much better defense than Watt if you look at the players around him. Houston has only 1 other above average player on 'D'. I'll get you started:
Tackles for loss - 29-23 Watt
QB Hits - 43 - 8 Watt
1st player in NFL history with 20 sacks two years in a row
Led all defensive players in touchdowns
First player in NFL history to score via a safety, pick-six, fumble return and a receiving TD in the same season
If you compare Watts individual stats with a composite of the best defensive linemen in the entire league - he still comes out ahead of them all.
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In a weird homer-esque way, I hope he doesn't. No way the Lions beat the Cowboys without him, and I'd much rather see the Packers play the winner of Arizona/Carolina than play Dallas.
Stafford has NEVER won a road game against a winning team - so it really doesn't matter.
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Stafford has NEVER won a road game against a winning team - so it really doesn't matter.
I think Dallas wins this game, but if Detroit is going to pull at upset in the playoffs, this is a scenario that I can see happening.
Dallas plays indoors and doesn't have a great home field advantage. Stafford and Detroit like the indoors as well. Dallas is a great run team, and despite yesterday, Detroit usually does a great job against the run.
Keep it close and force Romo to throw the ball? Well it wouldn't be the biggest upset in the world if he throws a couple picks and Detroit manages to pull this out.
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I also think Watt may have edged ahead of 12 in the MVP race yesterday.
Didn't make the playoffs and finished 9-7 in a dog division. Exactly 4 of their wins are against the combined 5-27 record of Jacksonville and Tennessee. I love JJ but winning is the name of the game. Rodgers' 'Willis Reed' performance in a 'playoff game' on the tundra sealed the deal. Had the Packers lost maybe an argument for someone else could be made. Romo is also worthy but will finish 3rd in the voting.
By the way, Dallas is playing great football. Assuming they win against the Lions, they'll be a formidable opponent in two weeks.
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How can any player on a non-playoff team be the MOST valuable player?
If you take Rodgers of GB, - they are not playoff teams. If you take Watt off the Texans, they would miss the same playoffs that they missed WITH him?
Defensive POY - nothing more, nothing less.
Totally agree with this.
I really like Watt, but it shouldn't even be particularly close. I mean, we got many opportunities to see first-hand the difference in the Packers with and without Rodgers -- the best player in the league at the most important position on the field.
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AR in a landslide.
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How come you only listed ones that were close? Not to mention that Houston plays on a much, much better defense than Watt if you look at the players around him. Houston has only 1 other above average player on 'D'. I'll get you started:
Tackles for loss - 29-23 Watt
QB Hits - 43 - 8 Watt
1st player in NFL history with 20 sacks two years in a row
Led all defensive players in touchdowns
First player in NFL history to score via a safety, pick-six, fumble return and a receiving TD in the same season
If you compare Watts individual stats with a composite of the best defensive linemen in the entire league - he still comes out ahead of them all.
There's something about some of these defensive stats in football that seems tantamount to judging baseball pitchers by their W/L record or position players by the number of runs they scored.
If your season stats are 1 tackle for a loss (or sack), 1 fumble recovery, 1 interception and 1 reception, you're a pretty crappy player. The fact that all four of your stats led to a score doesn't make you a better player. The fact that you're also the first in NFL history to do something doesn't make you a better player.
William "The Fridge" Perry 1985: 1 reception, 1 receiving TD; 5 rushing attempts, 2 rushing TDs; 2nd most fumble return yardage in the league. Those are great, but it speaks nothing to him being an elite defender.
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Totally agree with this.
I really like Watt, but it shouldn't even be particularly close. I mean, we got many opportunities to see first-hand the difference in the Packers with and without Rodgers -- the best player in the league at the most important position on the field.
The name of the award is what makes Rodgers an easy winner to me. What Watt did this year was incredible and worthy of defensive player of the year, but a most valuable player should be a player that can get their team in the playoffs.
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Didn't make the playoffs and finished 9-7 in a dog division. Exactly 4 of their wins are against the combined 5-27 record of Jacksonville and Tennessee. I love JJ but winning is the name of the game. Rodgers' 'Willis Reed' performance in a 'playoff game' on the tundra sealed the deal. Had the Packers lost maybe an argument for someone else could be made. Romo is also worthy but will finish 3rd in the voting.
By the way, Dallas is playing great football. Assuming they win against the Lions, they'll be a formidable opponent in two weeks.
I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.
Dallas has an X-factor. And by "X" I mean someone who will inexplicably, singlehandedly lead your team to defeat without warning.
http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8
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I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.
Dallas has an X-factor. And by "X" I mean someone who will inexplicably, singlehandedly lead your team to defeat without warning.
http://www.youtube.com/e/84dcnd8XEL8
Except if Detroit beat Dallas, you wouldn't be playing Detroit, you would be playing Carolina/Arizona, which to me is much easier. Plus Detroit has a better chance of beating Seattle albeit slim.
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I'd rather play Dallas than Detroit.
But GB wouldn't play Detroit. I would rather play Carolina or Arizona than Dallas.
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Suh, IMHO, gets a suspension. The NFL is very diligent, as they should be, in protectin' their product, i.e., superstar quarterbacks.
I excused the first foot as accidental. But Suh knew who was under him and purposefully stepped on Rodgers with the full weight of his left foot even lingering while he took his right foot off the ground. It was exactly the opposite of what a guy who had accidentally stepped on another would naturally do which would be to attempt to take weight off the inflicting foot and hop forward. And we're not talking about some 3rd string special teams guy. Rodgers is arguably the league's #1 meal ticket. The punishment should be severe.
I also give the Packers credit for maintaining their cool both during the game and in the presser afterwards. TJ Lang and the rest of the O-line wanted to kick the sh*t out of Suh in the conversation that followed the next play. Rodgers downplayed it by saying that they'll look at the film. Professional sports is supposed to be a brotherhood. Look at the classy way Peppers moved seamlessly from Chicago to Green Bay. Suh has no friends anywhere in the league.
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Notice that Suh wasn't on the field for the Packers' last drive?
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Notice that Suh wasn't on the field for the Packers' last drive?
Yep. I think Caldwell though it might get out of hand if he was. Probably best for all concerned.
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Has there been any definitive statements on Ted Phillips being relived of football duties? I have seen conflicting reports.
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Has there been any definitive statements on Ted Phillips being relived of football duties? I have seen conflicting reports.
No. Talk is that he's moving to the 'business side'. Bears' presser at 4p. We'll see.
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Except if Detroit beat Dallas, you wouldn't be playing Detroit, you would be playing Carolina/Arizona, which to me is much easier. Plus Detroit has a better chance of beating Seattle albeit slim.
How's that?
Stafford has NEVER beaten a winning team on the road. I agree Romo could go all Cutler on us and hand Detroit the game, but then win in Seattle? Uh-huh.
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I excused the first foot as accidental. But Suh knew who was under him and purposefully stepped on Rodgers with the full weight of his left foot even lingering while he took his right foot off the ground. It was exactly the opposite of what a guy who had accidentally stepped on another would naturally do which would be to attempt to take weight off the inflicting foot and hop forward. And we're not talking about some 3rd string special teams guy. Rodgers is arguably the league's #1 meal ticket. The punishment should be severe.
I also give the Packers credit for maintaining their cool both during the game and in the presser afterwards. TJ Lang and the rest of the O-line wanted to kick the sh*t out of Suh in the conversation that followed the next play. Rodgers downplayed it by saying that they'll look at the film. Professional sports is supposed to be a brotherhood. Look at the classy way Peppers moved seamlessly from Chicago to Green Bay. Suh has no friends anywhere in the league.
that's what I noticed right away. If you step on something/someone by accident, the first thing you do, is lift the foot. He did the exact opposite to make sure his full weight was on Aaron's ankle.
With his history (despite the deniers in this thread that he's never done this sort of thing before), he should be suspended the rest of the year whether it amounts to one game or two.
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How come you only listed ones that were close? Not to mention that Houston plays on a much, much better defense than Watt if you look at the players around him. Houston has only 1 other above average player on 'D'. I'll get you started:
Tackles for loss - 29-23 Watt A close number with Watt slightly ahead
QB Hits - 43 - 8 Watt Incorrect: 41-25 Watt
1st player in NFL history with 20 sacks two years in a row Irrelevant
Led all defensive players in touchdowns Irrelevant
First player in NFL history to score via a safety, pick-six, fumble return and a receiving TD in the same season Nice stat. Not sure it means much, but I'll allow it
Anyway, as I said previously...Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451443/article/nfl-suspends-ndamukong-suh-for-one-game?campaign=Twitter_atl
My bad.
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Anyway, as I said previously...Funny thing about Watt's "MVP-caliber" season is that Justin Houston's was nearly as good yet you hear nothing about him.
It's easy to look at Watt's dominance at his position. But what would it look like if you compared it to other positions. What if Watt's statistical dominance at his position were extrapolated out to other positions?
• Start by translating those numbers into quarterback play. Five thousand yards was once the all-time benchmark for passers. Dan Marino was the first player to cross that barrier, back in 1984, and it wasn't until 2008 that somebody did it again (Drew Brees). Now the mark has been broken eight times by five different quarterbacks, including at least one player eclipsing it each of the past three seasons.
If we assume that 5,000 yards represents a fair representation of the "best of the best," what would Watt be doing right now in quarterback terms? Based on the level of dominance over his 3-4 defensive end peers, he would be passing for a 7,100-yard season. If we translated it to touchdown passes, he would be throwing more than 70.
• How about running backs? Again, 2,000 yards is the great benchmark for running backs. That barrier has been surpassed just seven times in NFL history. If we assume that as our benchmark, then Watt would be rushing for 2,840 yards in a season.
• No receiver has ever broken 2,000 receiving yards in a season. Calvin Johnson came the closest, with 1,964 in 2012, but 16 players have broken the 1,600-yard mark. If we use that as our benchmark, then Watt's dominance represents a 2,272-yard receiving season, not just crossing into uncharted territory, but smashing right through the barrier and beyond.
Neither here nor there - but just representative of his total dominance as a defensive lineman. Houston has one outstanding stat - sacks.
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How's that?
Stafford has NEVER beaten a winning team on the road. I agree Romo could go all Cutler on us and hand Detroit the game, but then win in Seattle? Uh-huh.
Wait, I didn't say Detroit would beat Dallas. All I'm saying is, I would rather play Carolina/arizona than Dallas. In order for that to happen Detroit would have to beat Dallas. And yes, I think Detroit would have a better chance to beat Seattle than would carolina/arizona
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It's easy to look at Watt's dominance at his position. But what would it look like if you compared it to other positions. What if Watt's statistical dominance at his position were extrapolated out to other positions?
• Start by translating those numbers into quarterback play. Five thousand yards was once the all-time benchmark for passers. Dan Marino was the first player to cross that barrier, back in 1984, and it wasn't until 2008 that somebody did it again (Drew Brees). Now the mark has been broken eight times by five different quarterbacks, including at least one player eclipsing it each of the past three seasons.
If we assume that 5,000 yards represents a fair representation of the "best of the best," what would Watt be doing right now in quarterback terms? Based on the level of dominance over his 3-4 defensive end peers, he would be passing for a 7,100-yard season. If we translated it to touchdown passes, he would be throwing more than 70.
• How about running backs? Again, 2,000 yards is the great benchmark for running backs. That barrier has been surpassed just seven times in NFL history. If we assume that as our benchmark, then Watt would be rushing for 2,840 yards in a season.
• No receiver has ever broken 2,000 receiving yards in a season. Calvin Johnson came the closest, with 1,964 in 2012, but 16 players have broken the 1,600-yard mark. If we use that as our benchmark, then Watt's dominance represents a 2,272-yard receiving season, not just crossing into uncharted territory, but smashing right through the barrier and beyond.
Neither here nor there - but just representative of his total dominance as a defensive lineman. Houston has one outstanding stat - sacks.
How are you coming up with these extrapolations? Not necessarily questioning them, just wondering what stats are being used and how.
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But GB wouldn't play Detroit. I would rather play Carolina or Arizona than Dallas.
My bad. I meant to say, I would rather play Dallas than face the possibility of playing Detroit again.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451443/article/nfl-suspends-ndamukong-suh-for-one-game?campaign=Twitter_atl
My bad.
Lloyd Christmas finds no fault with what you said earlier.
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-16805-So-you-re-saying-there-s-a-cha-UxsK.gif)
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I think Dallas wins this game, but if Detroit is going to pull at upset in the playoffs, this is a scenario that I can see happening.
Dallas plays indoors and doesn't have a great home field advantage. Stafford and Detroit like the indoors as well. Dallas is a great run team, and despite yesterday, Detroit usually does a great job against the run.
Keep it close and force Romo to throw the ball? Well it wouldn't be the biggest upset in the world if he throws a couple picks and Detroit manages to pull this out.
Agreed. To be honest, I think Detroit is the most likely team to beat Seattle in the NFC. Teams that can stop the run have a chance to beat Seattle. Packers don't, Detroit does. I'm hoping Detroit wins against Dallas (they could) and then gets a shot at Seattle, because Carolina won't and Atlanta won't without a QB, and the Packers aren't winning in Seattle.
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This.
Suh will be suspended, and it will come before 5:00pm today. The NFL is balancing two considerations in consideration that it is a playoff week:
1) They want to thoroughly investigate the matter.
2) They want to give the Lions as much advance notice as possible (i.e. almost a week to prepare if a suspension is handed down).
"Derrrr, gee Benny.... how can you thoroughly investigate when you're suspending the guy less than 24 hours later."
Because Suh and the Lions will undoubtedly appeal, giving the NFL the ability to continue its investigation during the appeal - not to mention give the Lions and Suh a full opportunity to make their case - and if the suspension is upheld - even if that decision is handed down Friday afternoon - the NFL can take the position (if necessary) that the suspension was announced on Monday afternoon and the Lions should have prepared accordingly.
NM... looks like I was ten minutes late to the party.
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How are you coming up with these extrapolations? Not necessarily questioning them, just wondering what stats are being used and how.
They're just silly stats. Basically, it takes Watt's numbers compared to the next best DE and then at the other positions estimates what it would take to keep the same ratio of dominance.
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AR in a landslide.
+1000
2) Romo; 3) Brady; 4) Murray; 5) Watt
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that's what I noticed right away. If you step on something/someone by accident, the first thing you do, is lift the foot. He did the exact opposite to make sure his full weight was on Aaron's ankle.
With his history (despite the deniers in this thread that he's never done this sort of thing before), he should be suspended the rest of the year whether it amounts to one game or two.
And here's the quote directly from the league:
In his letter to Suh, Hanks noted, “You did not respond in the manner of someone who had lost his
balance and accidentally contacted another player who was lying on the ground. This illegal contact,
specifically the second step and push off with your left foot, clearly could have been avoided.” Hanks
further noted “you unnecessarily stepped on your opponent’s unprotected leg as he lay on the ground
unable to protect himself.”
The a-hole thought he could get away with it. Anyone who says it was an accident is simply lying to themselves. Good for the league.
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My bad. I meant to say, I would rather play Dallas than face the possibility of playing Detroit again.
Seriously? Dallas is 8-0 on the road and is playing outstanding football. I'd much rather Detroit win while we get the winner of Arizona/Carolina.
By the way, my bold prediction is that both Dallas and Carolina win next weekend. And I think the Packers will need to play an outstanding game to beat the Cowboys but I'll predict that they will.
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And here's the quote directly from the league:
In his letter to Suh, Hanks noted, “You did not respond in the manner of someone who had lost his
balance and accidentally contacted another player who was lying on the ground. This illegal contact,
specifically the second step and push off with your left foot, clearly could have been avoided.” Hanks
further noted “you unnecessarily stepped on your opponent’s unprotected leg as he lay on the ground
unable to protect himself.”
The a-hole thought he could get away with it. Anyone who says it was an accident is simply lying to themselves. Good for the league.
And Detroit shoots itself in the foot (pun intended) yet again in a crucial game situation. Does he forfeit his pay also?
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Do stupid stuff, pay the price, drag the team down with you. In a contract year. Outstanding.
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And here's the quote directly from the league:
In his letter to Suh, Hanks noted, “You did not respond in the manner of someone who had lost his
balance and accidentally contacted another player who was lying on the ground. This illegal contact,
specifically the second step and push off with your left foot, clearly could have been avoided.” Hanks
further noted “you unnecessarily stepped on your opponent’s unprotected leg as he lay on the ground
unable to protect himself.”
The a-hole thought he could get away with it. Anyone who says it was an accident is simply lying to themselves. Good for the league.
Merton Hanks really stuck his neck out on this one.
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Seriously? Dallas is 8-0 on the road and is playing outstanding football. I'd much rather Detroit win while we get the winner of Arizona/Carolina.
By the way, my bold prediction is that both Dallas and Carolina win next weekend. And I think the Packers will need to play an outstanding game to beat the Cowboys but I'll predict that they will.
Remember those Westboro idiots that were on campus a few weeks ago? Well, not only are they morons because their message is wrong, they're extra moronic morons because they completely misread God's communique. Any devout Christian (or NFL fan) can clearly see that God hates Romos.
Our God may not be a vengeful one but does have a sense of humor. If I were a betting man with a lust for irony, schadenfreude and divine intervention, my money is on Romo dropping a big deuce at Lambeau.
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And Detroit shoots itself in the foot (pun intended) yet again in a crucial game situation. Does he forfeit his pay also?
It's a league suspension. That is without pay.
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Ernie accorsi...set up as the next scapegoat so Ted and George will keep their jobs if the next hire sucks? Or is it Ted and George admitting they don't know what they're doing?
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Ernie accorsi...set up as the next scapegoat so Ted and George will keep their jobs if the next hire sucks? Or is it Ted and George admitting they don't know what they're doing?
Having Ernie pick the next guy has got to be better than Phillips picking him. And yes, I think it probably is them admitting someone else would know better.
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Ernie accorsi...set up as the next scapegoat so Ted and George will keep their jobs if the next hire sucks? Or is it Ted and George admitting they don't know what they're doing?
Maybe so but he did a nice job building the Giants. Look, the Bears have a long way to go. But anything that shifts the decision away from Ted Phillips, at least partially, is a good idea.
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I'm not a Packer/Lion/or Cowboy fan, but if I were the Packers I'd MUCH rather play Detroit than Dallas. Not only has Detroit not won in 20+ years in Green Bay, but look at the Lions last 3 games. Because losing to GB, they beat Minn by 2 in Detroit, and then almost lost to Jimmy Clausen. They are not trending up.
I predict Dallas destroys them down in Texas, and while I would still bet on GB, I think it will be a decent game at Lambeau.
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I'm not a Packer/Lion/or Cowboy fan, but if I were the Packers I'd MUCH rather play Detroit than Dallas. Not only has Detroit not won in 20+ years in Green Bay, but look at the Lions last 3 games. Because losing to GB, they beat Minn by 2 in Detroit, and then almost lost to Jimmy Clausen. They are not trending up.
I predict Dallas destroys them down in Texas, and while I would still bet on GB, I think it will be a decent game at Lambeau.
You do understand that the Packers can't play the Lions in this year's NFC playoffs except in the highly unusual scenario where Detroit travels to Green Bay for the NFC Championship game? NFL playoffs are not 'bracketed'. Re-seeding takes place every week. If Detroit wins, they travel next to #1 seed Seattle.
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I'm not a Packer/Lion/or Cowboy fan, but if I were the Packers I'd MUCH rather play Detroit than Dallas. Not only has Detroit not won in 20+ years in Green Bay, but look at the Lions last 3 games. Because losing to GB, they beat Minn by 2 in Detroit, and then almost lost to Jimmy Clausen. They are not trending up.
I predict Dallas destroys them down in Texas, and while I would still bet on GB, I think it will be a decent game at Lambeau.
Green Bay would not play Detroit in the divisional round. In the NFL divisional round, the No. 1 seed (Seattle, this year) always plays the lowest seeded remaining team and the No. 2 seed plays the next highest seeded remaining team. I.e., if Detroit (the 6 seed), wins, they automatically play Seattle (the 1). If Dallas (the 3) wins, they automatically play Green Bay (the 2).
As a Packer fan, I'd love to see Detroit win, because I'd much rather see the Packers play Carolina/Arizona than Dallas.
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Merton Hanks really stuck his neck out on this one.
This was well done.
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Think they can go back in time and hire Arians?
http://deadspin.com/the-bears-probably-want-a-do-over-on-that-marc-trestman-1676354356
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/m/chicago/super-page/rod-marinelli-almost-saved-the-bears-from-marc-trestman-back-in-2013/
Brutal. Can't really blame this on Phillips/mccaskey, as much as I'd like to. Marinelli had it right, emery just did his own thing. I still don't feel great about Phillips/mccaskey running the show, but hopefully Ernie points them in the right direction.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451443/article/nfl-suspends-ndamukong-suh-for-one-game?campaign=Twitter_atl
My bad.
Nevermind. Suspension overturned.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12099681/ndamukong-suh-detroit-lions-wins-appeal-play-playoff-game-vs-dallas-cowboys
Fined $70K in lieu of suspension.
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Nevermind. Suspension overturned.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12099681/ndamukong-suh-detroit-lions-wins-appeal-play-playoff-game-vs-dallas-cowboys
Fined $70K in lieu of suspension.
LMAO
Dominic Raiola as a character witness....
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So why did Cottrell overturn the suspension? Because he was swayed not only by speaking directly to Suh but by hearing from Suh’s representatives and from the Lions, who felt that the entire franchise would be punished if one of its best players was barred from a playoff game.
Could anyone here tell me what that has to do with anything?
So maybe if some guy has 10 kids and murders someone, he should get a reduced sentence because otherwise the kids are being punished by having their father taken away?
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I too think the suspension should have been upheld but at least this gives the Lions a fighting chance down in Dallas and probably marginally improves Green Bay's chances in the playoffs. Strange how things work out. The good news is that Rodgers wasn't injured by the stomp.
Aaron called into his radio show yesterday and was noncommittal about the situation. He was also noncommittal about his physical location. My bet, a beach-side villa in St. Lucia with Olivia Munn. The doctors told him to get some heat on that calf, didn't they? (Actually, I give Rodgers tons of credit for keeping his private life out of the public eye.)
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I too think the suspension should have been upheld but at least this gives the Lions a fighting chance down in Dallas and probably marginally improves Green Bay's chances in the playoffs. Strange how things work out. The good news is that Rodgers wasn't injured by the stomp.
Aaron called into his radio show yesterday and was noncommittal about the situation. He was also noncommittal about his physical location. My bet, a beach-side villa in St. Lucia with Olivia Munn. The doctors told him to get some heat on that calf, didn't they? (Actually, I give Rodgers tons of credit for keeping his private life out of the public eye.)
If I was dating Olivia Munn, I'd tried to keep that out of the public eye as well. HEY-O!
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Wow. Marrone opts out as Bill's coach. He did a great job there with no QB and great defense.
Looks like some other team has inquired and I hope it's my Jets.
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I too think the suspension should have been upheld but at least this gives the Lions a fighting chance down in Dallas and probably marginally improves Green Bay's chances in the playoffs. Strange how things work out. The good news is that Rodgers wasn't injured by the stomp.
Aaron called into his radio show yesterday and was noncommittal about the situation. He was also noncommittal about his physical location. My bet, a beach-side villa in St. Lucia with Olivia Munn. The doctors told him to get some heat on that calf, didn't they? (Actually, I give Rodgers tons of credit for keeping his private life out of the public eye.)
Coulda accomplished the same thing by havin' Olivia sit on his calf, hey?
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Wow. Marrone opts out as Bill's coach. He did a great job there with no QB and great defense.
Looks like some other team has inquired and I hope it's my Jets.
I just think the Jets are doing it wrong again. Get a GM in place and let the GM hire the coach. That is the way every successful franchise outside of New England works these days.
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Meant to post this earlier, but the Bears working with Accorsi tells me what I thought a few weeks ago...they want to go after Saban.
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I'm not sure why they think Saban is such a good idea.
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I'm not sure why they think Saban is such a good idea.
Not sure why you think that has any impact. Hasn't stopped the Bears before.
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I'm not sure why they think Saban is such a good idea.
He's got probably the best football S&C program in NFL or college, better than Harbaugh's even. He knows how to coach defense, specifically db's where the NFL has become a passing game more and more. I'd be thrilled with Saban if I were the Bears.
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He's got probably the best football S&C program in NFL or college, better than Harbaugh's even. He knows how to coach defense, specifically db's where the NFL has become a passing game more and more. I'd be thrilled with Saban if I were the Bears.
What has he accomplished at the professional level? He bombed out as a head coach in Miami. He's great when he can recruit his own guys, but I'm not sure he is good enough a coach to develop guys in the NFL.
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What has he accomplished at the professional level? He bombed out as a head coach in Miami. He's great when he can recruit his own guys, but I'm not sure he is good enough a coach to develop guys in the NFL.
Fair point. A physically similar team like Ohio State just chopped up his defense. Personally, I think there's a better chance he ends up like a Pete Carroll and learns from his previous stint.
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Think they can go back in time and hire Arians?
http://deadspin.com/the-bears-probably-want-a-do-over-on-that-marc-trestman-1676354356
This is great stuff. You ask a respected football guy for his opinion, he gives it, and you summarily ignore it. Da Bears!
Obviously, Emery had his mind made up about Trestman and was hoping Marinelli gave him the thumbs-up.
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Fair point. A physically similar team like Ohio State just chopped up his defense. Personally, I think there's a better chance he ends up like a Pete Carroll and learns from his previous stint.
Pete Carroll was different though. He was actually a moderately successful NFL coach, and a very highly respected defensive coordinator before he went to USC. (He was the San Francisco DC during at least one of their Super Bowls.) Almost all of Saban's success has been at the college level.
Overly simplistic, but IMO Carroll was an NFL guy who succeeded at the college level. Saban is a college guy.
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I'm pulling like crazy for the Bears to hire Shanahan to both GM and HC roles, and insist that Cutler is still salvageable. ;)
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The team on the rise in the North is Minnesota. Zimmer knows defense, and Turner is an excellent OC. He's not a head coach, but his coordinator work is why he's had multiple chances as an NFL coach.
If the front office finds enough players for those two, they have a very bright future under Zimmer and Turner.
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The team on the rise in the North is Minnesota. Zimmer knows defense, and Turner is an excellent OC. He's not a head coach, but his coordinator work is why he's had multiple chances as an NFL coach.
If the front office finds enough players for those two, they have a very bright future under Zimmer and Turner.
Agreed. Especially on Zimmer. And Bridgewater is going to be just fine as quarterback. In fact if I were them, I would find a way to get rid of Peterson. Don't need that distraction on a young team.
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Agreed. Especially on Zimmer. And Bridgewater is going to be just fine as quarterback. In fact if I were them, I would find a way to get rid of Peterson. Don't need that distraction on a young team.
They could probably stock up on good draft picks by moving Peterson. Plus the punishment and miles he's had in the NFL and college already, I don't think he's going to have much more left in the tank beyond a couple more really good seasons.
However, I think the distraction that would come with his return to the team would go away quickly. We're a society with an extremely short attention span. And they'd reap the benefits of Peterson playing with a giant chip on his shoulder next year. He's always played with a chip on his shoulder, and I'm sure he feels the length of the supsension was unfair.
Will be interesting to see what unfolds with him. I bet he'll be back in purple in 2015.
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Not entirely sure how things went down at the end but Saban did improve the Dolphins to 9-7, then didn't get his guy Brees for qb, went 6-10 and bailed out. Nothing to write home about but he had some "success".
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The team on the rise in the North is Minnesota. Zimmer knows defense, and Turner is an excellent OC. He's not a head coach, but his coordinator work is why he's had multiple chances as an NFL coach.
If the front office finds enough players for those two, they have a very bright future under Zimmer and Turner.
Rise to 3rd place, yes. As long as rodgers and stafford/megatron are still playing for their respective teams, that is 1 and 2 in the north for years to come
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Stafford is way too inconsistent at QB. I'm not sold on Caldwell being anything more than a mediocre coach. I think Detroit has work to do to stay ahead of Minnesota.
As long as Rodgers stays healthy, the Pack will always be the North favorite. He's far and away the division's best QB.
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Stafford is way too inconsistent at QB. I'm not sold on Caldwell being anything more than a mediocre coach. I think Detroit has work to do to stay ahead of Minnesota.
As long as Rodgers stays healthy, the Pack will always be the North favorite. He's far and away the NFL's best QB.
Fixed.
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Fixed.
Not so fast...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12118096/joe-flacco-best-quarterback-football-baltimore-ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-says
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Not so fast...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12118096/joe-flacco-best-quarterback-football-baltimore-ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-says
Hah
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I'm sure the HOF can't wait to induct him. Probably waive the 5 year rule for this special player.
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I realize that Dallas is surging. I realize that Detroit is going to find some way to lose. But picking up that PI flag may be the most bizarre thing I have seen. There should have been another flag for Dez Bryant running on the field. Followed up by the worst punt ever.
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I realize that Dallas is surging. I realize that Detroit is going to find some way to lose. But picking up that PI flag may be the most bizarre thing I have seen. There should have been another flag for Dez Bryant running on the field. Followed up by the worst punt ever.
Pick up flag, wow.
Shanked punt
Defensive holding
Romo has all day to pass that TD
Lions get boned.......
Why can't Suh play consecutive downs?, He out of shape? Jeez......
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I realize that Dallas is surging. I realize that Detroit is going to find some way to lose. But picking up that PI flag may be the most bizarre thing I have seen. There should have been another flag for Dez Bryant running on the field. Followed up by the worst punt ever.
textbook pass interference and they pick up the flag. Crazy.
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textbook pass interference and they pick up the flag. Crazy.
I honestly didn't think it was. It's only because he didn't turn his head. But Detroit doing Detroit things.
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I honestly didn't think it was. It's only because he didn't turn his head. But Detroit doing Detroit things.
If Mike Peirera called it PI, I think it's PI.
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Detroit did Detroit things. Dallas with a nice comeback. But that picked up PI flag was a gamechanger.
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And how Dez Bryant managed to run on the field without his helmet to scream about the call without getting a penalty is amazing.
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Detroit did Detroit things. Dallas with a nice comeback. But that picked up PI flag was a gamechanger.
Terrible non call. Obvious interference.
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I honestly didn't think it was. It's only because he didn't turn his head. But Detroit doing Detroit things.
That's exactly WHY it was pass interference. Total screw job and it cost Detroit the game.
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Detroit did Detroit things. Dallas with a nice comeback. But that picked up PI flag was a gamechanger.
Damn its frustrating pulling for the Lions. I feel for you.
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Maybe Raiola and Suh need to kick and step on a few more mofo's, hey?
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Terrible non call. Obvious interference.
I'm usually the one debunking conspiracy theories but this one was so egregious it begs the question "who does the NFL want to win?" Cowboys/Packers is a pretty good TV match up, aina?
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I'm usually the one debunking conspiracy theories but this one was so egregious it begs the question "who does the NFL want to win?" Cowboys/Packers is a pretty good TV match up, aina?
It was just a bad call. Too obvious to be a conspiracy.
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Win some (Suh should have been suspended and, really, he wants JJ Watt money?) -
Lose some (obvious pass interference).
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Win some (Suh should have been suspended and, really, he wants JJ Watt money?) -
Lose some (obvious pass interference).
The suspension was lifted due to an obscure loophole. Stunned me.
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I dislike the Lions as much as the next guy but that has to be painful. Trusting that the Packers will take care of business next weekend. We're a better team than Dallas on both sides of the ball.Haven't looked but I'll bet the line is about 7.
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I dislike the Lions as much as the next guy but that has to be painful. Trusting that the Packers will take care of business next weekend. We're a better team than Dallas on both sides of the ball.Haven't looked but I'll bet the line is about 7.
Opening line packers favored by 6.
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Painful? Yes and no. There is always an expectation that the Lions will find a way to lose. At the end of the day, they played a decent game on the road in the playoffs. They played well enough to win, but that isn't enough on the road in the playoffs. And when you have no serious expectations, it is difficult to be hurt. But those were two seriously messed up calls. It should have been first and 10 at the 15 thanks to Dez running out to protest.
Much like the Cubs after Bartman, Detroit still had an opportunity to win and move on. They failed. The call was huge, but they had an opportunity to overcome and didn't.
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Punting on 4th and 1 in Cowboys after that penalty was taken away was also a poor choice in my opinion. They had been gashing that Cowboys D.
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The suspension was lifted due to an obscure loophole. Stunned me.
No obscure loophole, they just didn't consider past infractions. They still could have upheld the suspension but decided the act didn't warrant it.
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Not only did they miss on the PI call, but they also failed to call a personal foul on Dez Bryant who came out to argue the call without his helmet. No helmet is automatic personal foul which the Cowboys did twice in this game with no call. The officials really hurt the Lions in this one.
The refs weren't responsible for the 10 yard punt, 4 yard kick return, and two fumbles on the final drive. That is just Lions being Lions.
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And how Dez Bryant managed to run on the field without his helmet to scream about the call without getting a penalty is amazing.
I had no rooting interest in this one, but swore I saw Demarco Murray take his helmet off after a score in celebration as well. It was for all of a second as he quickly pulled it back on, but I was still surprised not to see a flag come out.
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I had no rooting interest in this one, but swore I saw Demarco Murray take his helmet off after a score in celebration as well. It was for all of a second as he quickly pulled it back on, but I was still surprised not to see a flag come out.
Yeah I saw the same thing. But it actually looked inadvertent.
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I had no rooting interest in this one, but swore I saw Demarco Murray take his helmet off after a score in celebration as well. It was for all of a second as he quickly pulled it back on, but I was still surprised not to see a flag come out.
That was an accident. He was trying to undo the straps and his whole helmet came off.
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Painful? Yes and no. There is always an expectation that the Lions will find a way to lose. At the end of the day, they played a decent game on the road in the playoffs. They played well enough to win, but that isn't enough on the road in the playoffs. And when you have no serious expectations, it is difficult to be hurt. But those were two seriously messed up calls. It should have been first and 10 at the 15 thanks to Dez running out to protest.
Much like the Cubs after Bartman, Detroit still had an opportunity to win and move on. They failed. The call was huge, but they had an opportunity to overcome and didn't.
I guess I'm speaking more for their fans over in Michigan. No doubt they had a chance to recover and failed. Probably should have gone for it on the 4th down.
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No obscure loophole, they just didn't consider past infractions. They still could have upheld the suspension but decided the act didn't warrant it.
It had also been 32 games (iirc) from his last fineable offense, so the cumulative effect was eliminated. Since no cumulative effect, fine, not suspension.
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It had also been 32 games (iirc) from his last fineable offense, so the cumulative effect was eliminated. Since no cumulative effect, fine, not suspension.
You make it sound like the fine over suspension is automatic because of the 32 games. That would be an obscure loophole as you said, but that's not exactly how it works. They still could have upheld the suspension if the act were egregious enough to warrant suspension. A week earlier they could have upheld the suspension simply because he had prior infractions that indicate a pattern of misconduct.
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It had also been 32 games (iirc) from his last fineable offense, so the cumulative effect was eliminated. Since no cumulative effect, fine, not suspension.
Thank god that rule doesn't apply to community rules. "But sir, it's been 4 years since my last DUI." "Ahh, you are correct. 20 hours of community service it is. Good job."
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I admit that I am foggy on it.
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I admit that I am foggy on it.
I'm not saying you're defending Suh or the rule just quoted you because you explained the rule and I think the rule is ridiculous. It's how we treat 3 year olds (no wet diaper for 3 straight days? Let's go get ice cream!), not how we should treat adults (the last time you stomped on a dude with your metal cleats while he was laying on the ground helplessly was 3 years ago, you are forgiven. We will just take what essentially is the equivalence of $7.00 from you instead of suspending you. That should teach you.)
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I'm usually the one debunking conspiracy theories but this one was so egregious it begs the question "who does the NFL want to win?" Cowboys/Packers is a pretty good TV match up, aina?
Maybe the conspiracy was hatched on Jerry's party bus. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24652025/is-this-the-nfl-ref-czar-on-cowboys-party-bus-irate-nfl-execs-say-yes (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24652025/is-this-the-nfl-ref-czar-on-cowboys-party-bus-irate-nfl-execs-say-yes)
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That's exactly WHY it was pass interference. Total screw job and it cost Detroit the game.
Most of the first three quarters, I thought the Cowboys had been hurt by questionable calls. Twice, after particularly bad calls, the Cowboys responded with big plays to overcome the calls.
I absolutely thought the ref blew it by picking up that flag on what I thought was pass interference. Detroit, however, had PLENTY of chances to overcome that call --including the very next play, when Caldwell could have showed some stones and played to win and gone for it on 4th down ... and instead sent in his punter, who promptly shanked one.
Officials rarely are The Reason a team loses a game, regardless of sport. Has it happened in the history of sports? Probably. But teams get good calls in games and teams get bad calls. Over my decades as an observer, I have found that the good teams overcome the bad calls while the bad teams cry about being victims.
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That's exactly WHY it was pass interference. Total screw job and it cost Detroit the game.
I have a few comments and several questions for you.
1) I understand your frustration, I would be pissed off as well if I were a Lions fan. However, can you explain how it COST Detroit the game?
Was Detroit not winning the entire game?
Was Detroit guaranteed to score on the drive? If they only got a FG they are still only up 6? Why would they be guaranteed to score a TD on that drive, if that is your argument, since they hadn't scored one since the first quarter? Are they guaranteed to even get a FG with their kicking game?
Did the refs make Detroit punt on 4th and 1?
Did the refs make Detroit punt it 9 yards on a shank?
Did the refs make Detroit not stop Dallas after leading the whole game?
Did the refs make Detroit fumble it twice in the last 1:30 of the game?
Again, I understand your frustration, I'm just curious how it COST Detroit the game when they led the entire game and didn't put things away AND you have no idea what would happen next. NONE.
2) You do realize face guarding is not a foul in the NFL, correct? Only college
3) In my view, should have been offsetting penalties. Clearly the receiver is facemasking the defensive player every bit as much as he was holding him. Can't turn your head around if the receiver has your facemask held.
(https://i.imgflip.com/g0zyw.gif)
4) Who do you think got the better of the calls in the first half? I'm just curious. Personally, I hate blaming things on the refs. But nothing I hate even more than someone saying because of a call, it means 10 other things would have happened. No one knows if Detroit scores or what happens next.
At any rate, Dallas played horrible. Absolutely horrible in the first half. Can't believe they won. If they play like that against Green Bay it will be a blowout.
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The best one is the conspiracy talks...that the NFL is helping Dallas. I mean, that is clearly obvious for the past
18 19 years and all those Cowboys playoff victories. All two of those playoff wins...and 5 total playoff games in 1819 years. LOL.
You really can't make this stuff up.
(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10922651_10205108047434910_4866705046908157710_n.jpg?oh=fe230b4e6bd94e811c3a540e53fb8b60&oe=552C9987)
Edit....19 years
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If Mike Peirera called it PI, I think it's PI.
I get to be on a conference call with Mike P on Tuesday. He's a great guy, very smart. I don't disagree with his take, though I think he hasn't commented on the earlier part of the play when there was a facemask because I don't think he has seen it....I just posted that video from the sideline camera. I'm looking forward to his comments about that aspect of the play.
(https://i.imgflip.com/g0zyw.gif)
He also stated it isn't the reason Detroit lost the game. I'm just amazed that so many people just assume that Detroit is going in for a TD there, when they haven't scored one since the first quarter. Kreskins.
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The best one is the conspiracy talks...that the NFL is helping Dallas. I mean, that is clearly obvious for the past 18 years and all those Cowboys playoff victories. All one of those playoff wins...and 4 total playoff games in 18 years. LOL.
You really can't make this stuff up.
I love the conspiracy theorists, too. Like the NFL wanted Buffalo to go to 4 straight Super Bowls.
Chicos, I totally agreed with this post and the one you made a few minutes earlier. It must be a New Year!
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I love the conspiracy theorists, too. Like the NFL wanted Buffalo to go to 4 straight Super Bowls.
Chicos, I totally agreed with this post and the one you made a few minutes early. It must be a New Year!
;)
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I get to be on a conference call with Mike P on Tuesday. He's a great guy, very smart. I don't disagree with his take, though I think he hasn't commented on the earlier part of the play when there was a facemask because I don't think he has seen it....I just posted that video from the sideline camera. I'm looking forward to his comments about that aspect of the play.
He also stated it isn't the reason Detroit lost the game. I'm just amazed that so many people just assume that Detroit is going in for a TD there, when they haven't scored one since the first quarter. Kreskins.
The key difference between PI and the facemask is that PI was initially called and the facemask was not. Calls get missed, but they didn't miss the PI yet chose to overturn it after it was announced. They also failed to call Dez Bryant for his helmet off argument after the flag. Really bad officiating in this one. If it was just a simple missed call it would be much easier to swallow. I doubt people like Mike Peirera, Peter King, Michael Strahan, Bill Simmons, Mike Rosenberg, Samuel L. Jackson, and many others would be making strong comments if it was just about a missed call.
You are absolutely correct that the call didn't cost them the game... but it played a pretty significant role.
BTW, I don't actually believe the conspiracy stuff. My post with a link to the article about the head of officiating partying with the Cowboys was tongue in cheek. I do think there is some "elite" franchise/"elite" QB bias floating around the NFL though.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/five-reasons-the-detroit-lions-can-t-complain-about-the-non-call-013921557.html
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Maybe Raiola and Suh need to kick and step on a few more mofo's, hey?
(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10919018_10205645882246288_2511204586652085726_n.jpg?oh=dad5d4f53acff2a5100455e1ffdf74c9&oe=5545DED5)
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The key difference between PI and the facemask is that PI was initially called and the facemask was not. Calls get missed, but they didn't miss the PI yet chose to overturn it after it was announced. They also failed to call Dez Bryant for his helmet off argument after the flag. Really bad officiating in this one. If it was just a simple missed call it would be much easier to swallow. I doubt people like Mike Peirera, Peter King, Michael Strahan, Bill Simmons, Mike Rosenberg, Samuel L. Jackson, and many others would be making strong comments if it was just about a missed call.
You are absolutely correct that the call didn't cost them the game... but it played a pretty significant role.
BTW, I don't actually believe the conspiracy stuff. My post with a link to the article about the head of officiating partying with the Cowboys was tongue in cheek. I do think there is some "elite" franchise/"elite" QB bias floating around the NFL though.
Hang on...Jules Winnfield had some strong comments about the call? Clearly, the refs f'd it up.
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I have a few comments and several questions for you.
1) I understand your frustration, I would be pissed off as well if I were a Lions fan. However, can you explain how it COST Detroit the game?
Was Detroit not winning the entire game?
Was Detroit guaranteed to score on the drive? If they only got a FG they are still only up 6? Why would they be guaranteed to score a TD on that drive, if that is your argument, since they hadn't scored one since the first quarter? Are they guaranteed to even get a FG with their kicking game?
Did the refs make Detroit punt on 4th and 1?
Did the refs make Detroit punt it 9 yards on a shank?
Did the refs make Detroit not stop Dallas after leading the whole game?
Did the refs make Detroit fumble it twice in the last 1:30 of the game?
Again, I understand your frustration, I'm just curious how it COST Detroit the game when they led the entire game and didn't put things away AND you have no idea what would happen next. NONE.
2) You do realize face guarding is not a foul in the NFL, correct? Only college
3) In my view, should have been offsetting penalties. Clearly the receiver is facemasking the defensive player every bit as much as he was holding him. Can't turn your head around if the receiver has your facemask held.
(https://i.imgflip.com/g0zyw.gif)
4) Who do you think got the better of the calls in the first half? I'm just curious. Personally, I hate blaming things on the refs. But nothing I hate even more than someone saying because of a call, it means 10 other things would have happened. No one knows if Detroit scores or what happens next.
At any rate, Dallas played horrible. Absolutely horrible in the first half. Can't believe they won. If they play like that against Green Bay it will be a blowout.
First off let’s be clear. Take off the blue and silver glasses for a minute. If the exact same thing happened to the Cowboys, you would be pissing and moaning to no end.
I am well aware of the face guarding rule in the NFL. I also know that when a defender does not play the ball and makes contact with the receiver and interferes with the receiver, that it is pass interference. That call is made almost every time in the NFL. I am not even going to mention Dez Bryant running onto the field without his helmet or the refs making the call and then picking up the flag way after the fact.
As far as the outcome after that play, yes you are technically correct. We do not know what would have happened after that; hell a meteorite could have landed in the stadium as well if you want to play that game. We can only work with the information available to us, and that was the Lions would have had the ball at the 30, momentum late in the 4th quarter, and up by 3. In that scenario, the Lions are very likely to win.
Good luck in Lambeau next week, should be a good game. Long range weather looks like temps in the teens.
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Go ahead and mention Dez Bryant. Let's enter into fantasy world and pretend the refs got the call right. Can anyone say with a straight face that Dez Bryant should have gotten away with running onto the field to confront the officials? Chicos?
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Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.
As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards.
The Lions got hosed.
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First off let’s be clear. Take off the blue and silver glasses for a minute. If the exact same thing happened to the Cowboys, you would be pissing and moaning to no end.
I am well aware of the face guarding rule in the NFL. I also know that when a defender does not play the ball and makes contact with the receiver and interferes with the receiver, that it is pass interference. That call is made almost every time in the NFL. I am not even going to mention Dez Bryant running onto the field without his helmet or the refs making the call and then picking up the flag way after the fact.
As far as the outcome after that play, yes you are technically correct. We do not know what would have happened after that; hell a meteorite could have landed in the stadium as well if you want to play that game. We can only work with the information available to us, and that was the Lions would have had the ball at the 30, momentum late in the 4th quarter, and up by 3. In that scenario, the Lions are very likely to win.
Good luck in Lambeau next week, should be a good game. Long range weather looks like temps in the teens.
Yup, which I said I understand the anger. I would be too.
You didn't answer any of my questions, how come?
3rd and 1 and you have the lead, and they go for a tough pass and they punt. One would think you run it twice there to keep the drive alive.
Having the ball at the 30 yard line is the same as a meteorite striking....with a team that has scored all of 3 points the second half and not a touchdown since the first quarter? More than likely, they kick a FG (if they make it), and Dallas is still down only 6 points.
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Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.
As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards.
The Lions got hosed.
A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games. They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs. The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.
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Another horrible call was when they called Levy for defensive holding when it was 3rd and 5 and the penalty got Dallas a first down (1st and goal). I'm not arguing that particular call, but on the same play there was clearly illegal hands to the face committed by the right tackle on the rushing D end. The refs miss that, gave Dallas a first down, then Dallas scores.
As far as the pass interfence call goes, I've never seen them announce a call and then wave it off. Usually they'll pickup the flag and announce that there isn't a penalty. This time it was backwards.
The Lions got hosed.
When Dallas drive stopped in the first half on a call where Cowboys are called for offensive pass interference and Mike P. says that was a bad call....did Dallas get hosed? Why is it when Mike P. says a second half pass interference call is bad, he's right but in the first half he says a PI call is bad, that benefits the other team, that one doesn't seem to matter? Can I make the same leap of faith and say Dallas would have scored there just as Detroit fans are making the same leap? Kind of ironic.
Or does the hosing only work based on who is getting hosed or the time of the game? I think it is a fair question. No one seems to want to talk about the facemasking either, for whatever reason.
At any rate, I get why Detroit fans are upset. I would be too. I also would be furious as my coaching staff, my punter, my defense, and my offense in the second half that scored only 3 points. Lots of opportunities.
I expect Green Bay to win on Sunday. That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost. How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling. Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.
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Go ahead and mention Dez Bryant. Let's enter into fantasy world and pretend the refs got the call right. Can anyone say with a straight face that Dez Bryant should have gotten away with running onto the field to confront the officials? Chicos?
That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost. How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling. Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it. 3 points in the second half. Three turnovers. 3rd and 1 and you run that play, then you don't go for it on 4th...then you punt it 9 yards. Then you can't stop the Cowboys. Then you fumble it twice. Tons of opportunities.
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A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games. They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs. The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.
Nor do I. Nor does Mike P.
The reason people are pissed is Morelli announced the call first. They should have gotten together first, gone through what the refs saw, and then made the call. Flags are picked up all the time in the NFL. Sure, people would be ticked, but they're more ticked off because Morelli jumped the gun and announced it before conferring with his team. The irony is, in 2009 with a Patriots playoff game, he did the same thing after announcing a penalty and then reversing it. Apparently he is a premature announcing problem.
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When Dallas drive stopped in the first half on a call where Cowboys are called for offensive pass interference and Mike P. says that was a bad call....did Dallas get hosed? Why is it when Mike P. says a second half pass interference call is bad, he's right but in the first half he says a PI call is bad, that benefits the other team, that one doesn't seem to matter? Can I make the same leap of faith and say Dallas would have scored there just as Detroit fans are making the same leap? Kind of ironic.
Or does the hosing only work based on who is getting hosed or the time of the game? I think it is a fair question. No one seems to want to talk about the facemasking either, for whatever reason.
At any rate, I get why Detroit fans are upset. I would be too. I also would be furious as my coaching staff, my punter, my defense, and my offense in the second half that scored only 3 points. Lots of opportunities.
I expect Green Bay to win on Sunday. That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost. How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling. Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it.
I see you avoided the main part of my post. Can I make a leap of faith that you agree with me and there was illegal hands to the face?
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A lot of this has to do with the "all-star" crews they put on the field for the playoff games. They put the "best" officials of each position together for a crew instead of sending the best crews into the playoffs. The officiating mechanics broke down multiple times in the games this weekend.....I've never understood why the NFL does this.
In 2003, they stopped using "all-stars," and started assigning the best overall crews to the games.
http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1529469.html
(This isn't dated, but it is from 2003.) Notice that the head of officials back then was Mike Pereira who specifically mentioned yesterday that this could have been a problem.
They switched courses a few years later due to some controversy in previous playoffs.
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That call yesterday was not the reason Detroit lost. How Dallas won with how pathetic they played is mindboggling. Detroit had every opportunity, and they blew it. 3 points in the second half. Three turnovers. 3rd and 1 and you run that play, then you don't go for it on 4th...then you punt it 9 yards. Then you can't stop the Cowboys. Then you fumble it twice. Tons of opportunities.
I do agree with this. I mean that's Detroit however. That's why Stafford is 0-17 on the road versus winning teams. They couldn't execute on either side of the ball when it truly mattered.
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Most of the first three quarters, I thought the Cowboys had been hurt by questionable calls. Twice, after particularly bad calls, the Cowboys responded with big plays to overcome the calls.
I absolutely thought the ref blew it by picking up that flag on what I thought was pass interference. Detroit, however, had PLENTY of chances to overcome that call --including the very next play, when Caldwell could have showed some stones and played to win and gone for it on 4th down ... and instead sent in his punter, who promptly shanked one.
Officials rarely are The Reason a team loses a game, regardless of sport. Has it happened in the history of sports? Probably. But teams get good calls in games and teams get bad calls. Over my decades as an observer, I have found that the good teams overcome the bad calls while the bad teams cry about being victims.
see Golden Tate's TD catch against GB in Seattle a few years ago during the Refs' strike
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In 2003, they stopped using "all-stars," and started assigning the best overall crews to the games.
http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1529469.html
(This isn't dated, but it is from 2003.) Notice that the head of officials back then was Mike Pereira who specifically mentioned yesterday that this could have been a problem.
They switched courses a few years later due to some controversy in previous playoffs.
Maybe I misheard than because I swore Mike P said they were all-star crews.
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Maybe I misheard than because I swore Mike P said they were all-star crews.
My last sentence was unclear...they switched *back* to all star crews a few years later.
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My last sentence was unclear...they switched *back* to all star crews a few years later.
Oh good, here I thought I was more crazy than normal.
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I see you avoided the main part of my post. Can I make a leap of faith that you agree with me and there was illegal hands to the face?
No.
In my view, there was a defensive hold on the Cowboys....there was illegal hands to the face by the Lions. Offsetting penalties.
There is no rule against face guarding in the NFL, which it seems you are trying to say is illegal hands to the face. Illegal hands to the face requires actually touching the facemask, which is what the Lions player did, but not the Cowboys player. Now, you are supposed to "play the ball", of course it is also hard to turn your head and play the ball when the Lions player has your facemask in his hands.
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You're confused. I said there was an illegal hands to the face penalty on the right tackle against the defensive end. The Detroit guy had him beat and the Dallas guy, clear as day, was blocking him via his facemask, hence why there should have been a penalty. I don't know how to make GIFFS, but I'm sure there is one out there showing this. At best it should have been offset calls and replay 3rd and 5. Instead Dallas gets an automatic 1st down (and goal) and they score.
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Yup, which I said I understand the anger. I would be too.
You didn't answer any of my questions, how come?
3rd and 1 and you have the lead, and they go for a tough pass and they punt. One would think you run it twice there to keep the drive alive.
Having the ball at the 30 yard line is the same as a meteorite striking....with a team that has scored all of 3 points the second half and not a touchdown since the first quarter? More than likely, they kick a FG (if they make it), and Dallas is still down only 6 points.
So people can't assume a touchdown but you can assume a field goal. Got it.
Now that that's clear, since we know it's only a 6 point lead and Detroit then kicked a field goal, I guess you know that Dallas's ensuing drive goes exactly as it did following the 10 yard punt, despite them now needing a touchdown to keep their season alive (as opposed to a field goal to tie the game) with less time on the clock, and worse field position (but I guess you must know the return man would've returned the kickoff to exactly where the punt resulted). Do you really think Dallas's offense and Detroit's defense play the exact same way if Dallas is down 6 starting at their 20 with 5:20 left as they did with Dallas down 3 with 8:10 left in the game? Of course they wouldn't, but that doesn't fit your narrative so nobody else can conclude anything about the rest of the game except for you.
I hate Detroit and they got screwed. The refs missed the call you want to make, and they made the call that they should have made, yet they inexplicably made the call and then reversed it. Beyond that, Dez Bryant should've been flagged for a 15 yard penalty. So while you want to say they have it at the 30, they should've had it at the 15. Not to mention, even if it went your way and there were offsetting penalties, isn't 3rd and 1 a lot different than 4th and 1? Because if there were offsetting penalties, that's what the situation would've been. But again, that doesn't fit your narrative.
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I have written earlier in this thread that, like the Bartman Cubs, Detroit had a chance to win the game and failed to do so. They ARE the Lions, after all. However, to argue that the arc of the game wasn't altered by those two wrong calls, picking up the flag and failing to flag Dez, is somewhere between disingenuous, oblivious to the ebb and flow of games, and fantasy.
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I have written earlier in this thread that, like the Bartman Cubs, Detroit had a chance to win the game and failed to do so. They ARE the Lions, after all. However, to argue that the arc of the game wasn't altered by those two wrong calls, picking up the flag and failing to flag Dez, is somewhere between disingenuous, oblivious to the ebb and flow of games, and fantasy.
This is a very good comparison from the standpoint that even after the one play in question, there were opportunities for both teams to win the game. The PI call would have increased Detroit's chances of winning, but they still shanked a punk then allowed Dallas to drive 60 yards for the go-ahead score, giving up a 20-yard pass on 4th and 6 in the process. In addition, the Lions had 2:30 and 2 TOs to drive down the field to win the game. Not easy, but not impossible.
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Exactly. Despite the blown calls, Detroit had the ball back down 4 with 2:32 to go. If they weren't the same old Lions, they would have found a way to move down the field and win the game, like they had 5 time earlier in the season. In the end, Dallas made the stop and Detroit didn't get it done. But that doesn't make the calls correct, and it doesn't mean their wrongness didn't have an effect on the outcome.
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Yup, which I said I understand the anger. I would be too.
You didn't answer any of my questions, how come?
3rd and 1 and you have the lead, and they go for a tough pass and they punt. One would think you run it twice there to keep the drive alive.
Having the ball at the 30 yard line is the same as a meteorite striking....with a team that has scored all of 3 points the second half and not a touchdown since the first quarter? More than likely, they kick a FG (if they make it), and Dallas is still down only 6 points.
I didn’t answer your questions because none of it mattered. The Lions suck, that’s your answer. What does that have to do with a blown call that changes the momentum of the game?
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see Golden Tate's TD catch against GB in Seattle a few years ago during the Refs' strike
Still one of my favoriteam regular season moments ;D
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Good take from Bill Barnwell:
And the reality is that the decision hardly turned the game into a guaranteed victory for the Cowboys. Brian Burke’s win probability model noted that the call swung Detroit’s chances of winning by about 12 percentage points, as the Lions would have had a 79.4 percent chance of winning if the penalty had been enforced, only to settle for a 67.2 percent win expectancy after the flag was picked up. Burke notes that Detroit’s chances changed by about the same amount when Matthew Stafford hit Corey Fuller for a 21-yard completion earlier on the drive. It would be impossible to argue that the non-call didn’t help Dallas’s chances, but acting like a Cowboys win was fait accompli after the flag was picked up is just inaccurate.
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This is a very good comparison from the standpoint that even after the one play in question, there were opportunities for both teams to win the game. The PI call would have increased Detroit's chances of winning, but they still shanked a punk then allowed Dallas to drive 60 yards for the go-ahead score, giving up a 20-yard pass on 4th and 6 in the process. In addition, the Lions had 2:30 and 2 TOs to drive down the field to win the game. Not easy, but not impossible.
I heard Keefe did this one night in Bangladesh.
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Just read something that shocked me. At 31 years old, Rodgers is the 3rd oldest player on the Green Bay Packers. Only Peppers and Kuhn are older. Only 8 players on the roster are 30 years old or older.
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see Golden Tate's TD catch against GB in Seattle a few years ago during the Refs' strike
Were the refs also responsible for the fact that GB wasn't leading by 9 points when the "fail mary" was caught? Seems like had Rodgers thrown another TD pass earlier in that game, Tate's catch wouldn't have mattered.
Refs do not determine the outcome of a game. They can influence it, but they don't determine it. Score more points than the other team, and there's nothing the refs can do to take a win away.
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Refs do not determine the outcome of a game. They can influence it, but they don't determine it. Score more points than the other team, and there's nothing the refs can do to take a win away.
I get where you coming from but in that situation the score was 12-7 before the bad call was made so yes the refs did directly affect the outcome IMO. Sure if Rodgers had thrown for 5 TDs that call wouldn't have mattered but that wasn't the case was it?
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Has anyone considered the possibility of the following sequence:
1) Back judge sees DPI, throws the flag.
2) Head linesman sees hand-to-face or OPI, but sees BJ throw flag, assumes BJ saw what he saw, and so does not throw the flag himself (it's highly unusual for an HL to throw a flag for a penalty in the secondary as he's not usually in the best position to make such calls - and doesn't want to step on the toes of his crewmates).
3) Referee signals DPI. HL has an "oh sh|t" moment, goes over to R to discuss.
4) Officiating crew confers, knowing that they either have to deal with calling a penalty 45-60 seconds after the play was over (and an initial penalty called) or pick up the flag for the penalty that was already called. Not knowing of any situation where the former had occurred and several where the latter had (though not after the signal for the flag) probably influenced the decision.
5) Crew decides the lesser of two evils to be picking up the flag. Rationale: Had OPI/HTF been the original infraction (which it was) and the officials conferred before signalling any call, the call for DPI most likely would not have been made and only OPI/HTF would have been the call (I can't find any example where OPI/HTF and DPI were called on the same play). Therefore, the result of the play should have been 10 yards &replay the down, in which case Dallas may have declined the penalty to bring up 4th down any way, in which case, the end result would have been the ideal result to begin with.
In other words, if the pass was unlikely to have been caught (which I can't say is or is not the case), the Lions may have actually derived benefit from the outcome of the play in relation to how it should have been called (HTF/OPI, no DPI) as opposed to how it was ultimately called (no call). Detroit fans may be upset about it, but the Cowboys may in fact have been the team who got the short end of the stick because the officials effectively declined a penalty without having consulted them.
Not saying that is what happened, but it's one logical explanation for the controversial result of the play being the correct one. It also may explain why Dez Bryant was not called - the only reason Bryant came on the field was because the officials already knew they screwed up the call to begin with.
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I get where you coming from but in that situation the score was 12-7 before the bad call was made so yes the refs did directly affect the outcome IMO. Sure if Rodgers had thrown for 5 TDs that call wouldn't have mattered but that wasn't the case was it?
Semantics perhaps, but I would argue that it was the Packers (or Seahawks) who failed to control the outcome of the game by putting the refs into a position to directly affect the last play of the game, which indirectly led to them affecting the outcome of the game.
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Not saying that is what happened, but it's one logical explanation for the controversial result of the play being the correct one. It also may explain why Dez Bryant was not called - the only reason Bryant came on the field was because the officials already knew they screwed up the call to begin with.
So ignoring 2 blatant infractions (on the field without a helmet and entering the field to begin with) is cool cause they were having an "oops my bad" moment? So by that logic, it would be logical or make sense for an NBA ref to not discipline a player who throws a punch at an opponent because 5 seconds before, they had mistakenly called a charge when the defender was clearly in the restricted area. Already messed up, might as well just move along.
Whatever the outcome of the 3rd and 1 play, its a moot point because there is absolutely NO excuse for Bryant doing what he did and escaping all manner of penalties.
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So ignoring 2 blatant infractions (on the field without a helmet and entering the field to begin with) is cool cause they were having an "oops my bad" moment? So by that logic, it would be logical or make sense for an NBA ref to not discipline a player who throws a punch at an opponent because 5 seconds before, they had mistakenly called a charge when the defender was clearly in the restricted area. Already messed up, might as well just move along.
Whatever the outcome of the 3rd and 1 play, its a moot point because there is absolutely NO excuse for Bryant doing what he did and escaping all manner of penalties.
Exactly. You can't yell, "You're a (effing) dumbass!" at an NBA referee who knows they just made a bad call. They'll T you up without a thought.
Semantics perhaps, but I would argue that it was the Packers (or Seahawks) who failed to control the outcome of the game by putting the refs into a position to directly affect the last play of the game, which indirectly led to them affecting the outcome of the game.
No. When you have the lead and you intercept a pass in the end zone you should have won the game. The fact that the refs ruled that it was a touchdown despite it clearly being an interception means the refs screwed you over and lost the game for you.
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Semantics perhaps, but I would argue that it was the Packers (or Seahawks) who failed to control the outcome of the game by putting the refs into a position to directly affect the last play of the game, which indirectly led to them affecting the outcome of the game.
So if one team can't dominate the other, or at least win going away, i.e., by greater than one possession, then they deserve to get screwed at the end if the refs are incompetent? When your argument is all twisted and contorted as your above quote is, you need to re-think that you're just plain wrong.
Why not come clean Benny and just admit your anti-Packer bias? At least everyone will know where you're coming from when your argument on this topic is so ridiculous.
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Still one of my favoriteam regular season moments ;D
It's all you Bear fans have the last 20 plus years now isn't it? Living vicariously through another teams win over Green Bay.
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No. When you have the lead and you intercept a pass in the end zone you should have won the game. The fact that the refs ruled that it was a touchdown despite it clearly being an interception means the refs screwed you over and lost the game for you.
Two bad calls in that drive. Jeron McMillan's interception overturn on a bad PI call was the first.
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Three greatest screw jobs in the history of sports -
1) Soviets over USA -1972 Olympic Men's Basketball.
2) Fail Mary
3) Tuck rule.
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Two bad calls in that drive. Jeron McMillan's interception overturn on a bad PI call was the first.
Three blown calls as there was the non-call of blatantly obvious offensive PI on Golden Taint on the fail mary play.
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It's all you Bear fans have the last 20 plus years now isn't it? Living vicariously through another teams win over Green Bay.
The reaction from all the Packer fans on my floor was more enjoyable then the game. I had 3 guys try to fight me because I was trolling them by saying it was a good call. I wouldn't have cared if I hadn't gotten a reaction.
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The reaction from all the Packer fans on my floor was more enjoyable then the game. I had 3 guys try to fight me because I was trolling them by saying it was a good call. I wouldn't have cared if I hadn't gotten a reaction.
Do you ever stop and think about, gee, what if that happened to the Bears? I mean seriously, that call should have been an offense to anyone who calls themselves a football fan.
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Do you ever stop and think about, gee, what if that happened to the Bears? I mean seriously, that call should have been an offense to anyone who calls themselves a football fan.
Absolutely, I admit it was a terrible call but it doesn't make it any less funny. The fact that they were ready to fight me was effin hilarious.
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Absolutely, I admit it was a terrible call but it doesn't make it any less funny. The fact that they were ready to fight me was effin hilarious.
Yeah, I'd probably laugh too, especially if it were the Vikings or the Bears, but a tiny part of me would feel empathy toward their fans after a debacle like that.
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The reaction from all the Packer fans on my floor was more enjoyable then the game. I had 3 guys try to fight me because I was trolling them by saying it was a good call. I wouldn't have cared if I hadn't gotten a reaction.
You rool dood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNwt_C0qGqM
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You rool dood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNwt_C0qGqM
See this is the type of reaction I feed off of. Too easy.
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See this is the type of reaction I feed off of. Too easy.
You rool dood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA2fHoUkG2g
(Obscure.)
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Three greatest screw jobs in the history of sports -
1) Soviets over USA -1972 Olympic Men's Basketball.
2) Fail Mary
3) Tuck rule.
4)Vince McMahon screws Stone Cold out if heavyweight title.
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You rool dood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA2fHoUkG2g
(Obscure.)
Yea that was 13 years before I was born.
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You rool dood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA2fHoUkG2g
(Obscure.)
And coked up when he did it.
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So if one team can't dominate the other, or at least win going away, i.e., by greater than one possession, then they deserve to get screwed at the end if the refs are incompetent? When your argument is all twisted and contorted as your above quote is, you need to re-think that you're just plain wrong.
Why not come clean Benny and just admit your anti-Packer bias? At least everyone will know where you're coming from when your argument on this topic is so ridiculous.
The only thing I find ridiculous is how fans become so irrational when it comes to football (football players are a different story because there's nothing rational about someone who puts on a helmet so they can bash their head into someone else); so I'll just leave reason in the hands of people much wiser than me:
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
-Thomas Jefferson
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
-Vince Lombardi
"Good teams oft find themselves the beneficiary of good luck."
-Every coach in history
"If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger."
-HutchwasClutch
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Three greatest screw jobs in the history of sports -
1) Soviets over USA -1972 Olympic Men's Basketball.
2) Fail Mary
3) Tuck rule.
maybe you never heard of the Aaron Pryor-Alexis Arguello fight in 1982?
On November 12, 1982, Pryor defended his title with a fourteenth-round TKO of Alexis Arguello before a crowd of 23,800 at Miami's Orange Bowl and a live HBO audience. The fight, dubbed The Battle of The Champions by promoter Bob Arum, was eventually named the Fight of the Decade by The Ring.
Pryor made $1.6 million while Arguello was paid $1.5 million. Arguello, a 12-5 favorite, was attempting to become the first boxer to win world titles in four weight divisions.
The end of the fight was controversial. Arguello landed a punch in the thirteenth round that seemed to stun Pryor, and despite trailing on two of three scorecards, Arguello had things tilting in his direction. Between the thirteenth and fourteenth rounds, HBO's microphones caught Pryor's trainer, Panama Lewis, telling cutman Artie Curley, "Give me the other bottle, the one I mixed."
It seemed to revive Pryor. Coming out quickly for the fourteenth round, Pryor landed a barrage of unanswered blows before referee Stanley Christodoulou stopped it. Arguello collapsed to the canvas near the ropes, where he lay for several minutes.
Many speculated that there was something illegal in the bottle, but nobody checked the contents and the Miami Boxing Commission failed to administer a post-fight urine test to the boxers. Lewis and Pryor steadfastly denied that there was anything illegal in the bottle.
Artie Curley said that the bottle contained peppermint schnapps to settle Pryor's upset stomach. In a 2009 documentary, former Lewis-trained boxer Luis Resto revealed that Lewis would break apart antihistamine pills and pour the medicine into his water, giving him greater lung capacity in the later rounds of a fight.
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Three greatest screw jobs in the history of sports -
1) Soviets over USA -1972 Olympic Men's Basketball.
2) Fail Mary
3) Tuck rule.
The tuck rule was a correct application of the rule in place at the time. It's not a screw job if the referee was merely enforcing a bad rule.
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The tuck rule was a correct application of the rule in place at the time. It's not a screw job if the referee was merely enforcing a bad rule.
the refs aren't the only ones who are guilty of a screw job.
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the refs aren't the only ones who are guilty of a screw job.
Well to me I can't be upset when a referee is actually enforcing the rules of the game. Just because we *think* a rule should be different, that doesn't mean that it's a "screw job." By rule, Brady didn't fumble. Do I think the rule is dumb? Yes. But it would have been a greater screw job to give the ball to Oakland and have them go on to win the game because a rule that league owners agreed to (implicitly by owning an NFL team), was incorrectly applied.
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I think we've seen some modest rule clarification through the years that has actually made it easier for the refs. I'll point to the 'empty hand rule' as one improvement. I suppose this incident in Dallas might give rise to some sort of 'face guarding' clarification because I really don't think most neutral observers would say that was 'good' pass defense especially given the way DBs aren't allowed to do anything these days. Personally, I'd like the game a bit better if passing was a bit more difficult but we all know it's the superstars like Rodgers, Manning and Brady that bring in the big bucks.
I guess the two calls that annoy me most this year were the tiny head brush on Matt Stafford during week 17 (correct call I might add, just too candy a*s for my taste) and one DBs absolutely beautiful form shoulder hit to the breastbone of a receiver on a Sunday night game if my memory is correct. Receiver's head snapped back and they called the 'defenseless' receiver rule. Now understand that I'm all for protecting against concussions but it was a perfectly timed magnificent football hit that dislodged the ball. DB properly kept his head up AND off to the side driving through the opponent just the way one is taught Freshman year in high school. The hit was violent. But football is a violent game. You'll hear lots of former players from Troy Aikman to Antonio Freeman talk about the relative softness of today's game.
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I think we've seen some modest rule clarification through the years that has actually made it easier for the refs. I'll point to the 'empty hand rule' as one improvement. I suppose this incident in Dallas might give rise to some sort of 'face guarding' clarification because I really don't think most neutral observers would say that was 'good' pass defense especially given the way DBs aren't allowed to do anything these days. Personally, I'd like the game a bit better if passing was a bit more difficult but we all know it's the superstars like Rodgers, Manning and Brady that bring in the big bucks.
I'd like to see the NFL eliminate pass interference calls on deep passes that are severely underthrown (almost like the uncatchable rule). If the DB is a half-step behind the WR but the WR needs to stop to come back to an underthrown ball, the DB is going to run into him and get flagged. When that call is made, you're rewarding the offense, often with 30+ yards, for a poorly thrown pass.
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I think the NFL should make PI a 15 yard max penalty - like the college rule. It is ridiculous that a player can commit a violent personal foul, and the penalty can be less than a pass interference call.
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I'd like to see the NFL eliminate pass interference calls on deep passes that are severely underthrown (almost like the uncatchable rule). If the DB is a half-step behind the WR but the WR needs to stop to come back to an underthrown ball, the DB is going to run into him and get flagged. When that call is made, you're rewarding the offense, often with 30+ yards, for a poorly thrown pass.
Jay Cutler doesn't like your proposal.
<---- Bears fan.
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So people can't assume a touchdown but you can assume a field goal. Got it.
Now that that's clear, since we know it's only a 6 point lead and Detroit then kicked a field goal, I guess you know that Dallas's ensuing drive goes exactly as it did following the 10 yard punt, despite them now needing a touchdown to keep their season alive (as opposed to a field goal to tie the game) with less time on the clock, and worse field position (but I guess you must know the return man would've returned the kickoff to exactly where the punt resulted). Do you really think Dallas's offense and Detroit's defense play the exact same way if Dallas is down 6 starting at their 20 with 5:20 left as they did with Dallas down 3 with 8:10 left in the game? Of course they wouldn't, but that doesn't fit your narrative so nobody else can conclude anything about the rest of the game except for you.
I hate Detroit and they got screwed. The refs missed the call you want to make, and they made the call that they should have made, yet they inexplicably made the call and then reversed it. Beyond that, Dez Bryant should've been flagged for a 15 yard penalty. So while you want to say they have it at the 30, they should've had it at the 15. Not to mention, even if it went your way and there were offsetting penalties, isn't 3rd and 1 a lot different than 4th and 1? Because if there were offsetting penalties, that's what the situation would've been. But again, that doesn't fit your narrative.
I'm saying you can't assume either one. Who's to say the very next play the Lions don't fumble. I just find it interesting that for a team that hadn't scored a TD since the first quarter, suddenly they were going to waltz in from 35 yards out. Uhm, ok.
By the way, wasn't it already 3rd and 1 and they ran that play? Why run that play? Why is a Dallas drive in the first half stopped by a poor PI call (that Mike Pereira also said was a bad call)....why can't I assume that would meant a TD or FG for Dallas, yet everyone else can for Detroit? Uhm, ok.
The Dez Bryant stuff is nonsense. There is no foul for going on the field without your helmet. The head of officiating cleared that up yesterday. So did former ref Jerry Austin on ESPN yesterday. Jerry Austin also said yesterday he did not think it was PI. So different officials say different things, much like two different officials said something different in that game. The process sucked, Morelli shouldn't have announced it without talking to the crew first.
Now they're all up in arms about a holding call on 4th and 6 in the fourth quarter. Yet, the play right before it when it was 3rd and 6, Witten is held and the announcers call that non call out. That would have been an automatic first down.
So we can go down this path all you want. There are fouls all over the place.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/terry-boers-is-reporting-that-the-bears-plan-on-parting-ways-with-brandon-marshall-soon/
"According to Terry Boers of 670 The Score, sources believe that the Bears have already made the decision to part ways with Marshall. According to Boers’ source, the decision came from Bears’ brass and none of the prospective general managers interviewed have disagreed with the decision."
This is a total unnatural carnal knowledgeing contradiction to what Philips and McCaskey assured everyone during their press conference. Every decision about the team/players was going to be made by the new GM and coach. I unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate the Bears' execs. Moron non-football people making football decisions - especially right after they went public and said that's exactly what they wouldn't do.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/terry-boers-is-reporting-that-the-bears-plan-on-parting-ways-with-brandon-marshall-soon/
"According to Terry Boers of 670 The Score, sources believe that the Bears have already made the decision to part ways with Marshall. According to Boers’ source, the decision came from Bears’ brass and none of the prospective general managers interviewed have disagreed with the decision."
This is a total unnatural carnal knowledgeing contradiction to what Philips and McCaskey assured everyone during their press conference. Every decision about the team/players was going to be made by the new GM and coach. I unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate the Bears' execs. Moron non-football people making football decisions - especially right after they went public and said that's exactly what they wouldn't do.
unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid. Marshall had been nothing but great with the Bears, from his attitude to his play. At least wait until the new guys come in and let them do their job.
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unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid. Marshall had been nothing but great with the Bears, from his attitude to his play. At least wait until the new guys come in and let them do their job.
Marshall was fine his first two years on the Bears, this past year, no. He became a very polarizing figure within that locker room.
When he's getting the ball and the team is winning Marshall is fine. However, when that's not happening he very quickly becomes a major distraction. Marshall talks a great game, but don't confuse passion for oneself as passion for the team.
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unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid. Marshall had been nothing but great with the Bears, from his attitude to his play.
Are you kidding me? He held it together for the first couple years, but the guy was a mess this year.
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Marshall is on the wrong side of 30. Wouldn't be a terrible move
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Boers pointed out on his radio show today that Phillips said that Marshall would be back. McCaskey never talked about it. He also said that neither the Broncos nor the Dolphins regretted cutting ties with him. Neither will the Bears.
This is a complete rebuild. It makes no sense to keep someone like that around.
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The problem with the decision to get rid of Marshall has nothing to do with Marshall. Like I said, it's about non-football people making football decisions. And more importantly, it's about those same people doing the exact opposite of what they said they would be doing.
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there is no reason to make any decision on Marshall at this point since free agency and the next NFL year doesn't start until March IIRC, they should let the new GM and coach decide if they want Marshall
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FWIW, John Clayton was on WMVP yesterday afternoon and said that he has heard nothing about the Bears' supposed intentions to release Marshall.
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FWIW, John Clayton was on WMVP yesterday afternoon and said that he has heard nothing about the Bears' supposed intentions to release Marshall.
I would trust Boers connections with the Bears way more than John Clayton's.
The problem with the decision to get rid of Marshall has nothing to do with Marshall. Like I said, it's about non-football people making football decisions. And more importantly, it's about those same people doing the exact opposite of what they said they would be doing.
Yeah I understand that. They just can't seem to get the organization chart right.
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I would trust Boers connections with the Bears way more than John Clayton's.
Boers has connections?
Before I left Chicago in 2010, he had been little more than a radio clown for more than a decade. It's hard to imagine he has serious sources.
Clayton is a reporter, and a pretty good one. He might not be super well-connected to the Bears, but he has tons of NFL sources, and those sources talk to each other.
Maybe I'm wrong about Boers, though, and he does have some insider feeding him truly useful info. I'd just be pretty surprised if that were the case.
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Boers has connections?
Before I left Chicago in 2010, he had been little more than a radio clown for more than a decade. It's hard to imagine he has serious sources.
Clayton is a reporter, and a pretty good one. He might not be super well-connected to the Bears, but he has tons of NFL sources, and those sources talk to each other.
Maybe I'm wrong about Boers, though, and he does have some insider feeding him truly useful info. I'd just be pretty surprised if that were the case.
Boers for years was a beat writer for the Bears. (As well as the Bulls.) Usually when he comes out and says something definitive, he is usually shown to be correct. We will see if that is the case here.
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Ryan Pace new GM for the Bears. Pro personnel director for the Saints. Been in their organization for over a decade.
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Ryan Pace new GM for the Bears. Pro personnel director for the Saints. Been in their organization for over a decade.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/01/ryan_pace_saints_player_person_1.html
Comments at bottom of that article not too encouraging. Here's one...
Bear fan here. Man, you don't get the REAL scoop until you read the comments section of the local paper. I had no idea Ryan Pace was so despised. I hope his mother doesn't read NOLA. Well, now I hope that the Bears pass on Pace. Even the GM was less than raving in his praise: "Uh, Pace, yeah, he's, uh, real good at what he does and stuff."
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I don't know if it's directly tied to Pace, but I don't really like that the Saints built success through free agency. I want the team built through the draft like the Pack.
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I don't know if it's directly tied to Pace, but I don't really like that the Saints built success through free agency. I want the team built through the draft like the Pack.
It is difficult to judge hires like this because we don't know the details on how much influence a guy like Pace had in the Saints overall decision making process. Mickey Loomis is the GM and Sean Payton wields a great deal of influence in the franchise's vision and in player transactions.
One area that does speak well to Pace are the finds the Saints have had in the undrafted free agent market. That's an area that Pace would have had a great deal of influence on and shows some scouting acumen.
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nm
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Apparently Pace was given "full control" over all football operations for the Bears.
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this just doesn't sound right (from the article I read on Yahoo! sports
Chicago has been to the playoffs just four times since the start of the 1995 season. Only Oakland (three), Houston (two) and Cleveland (one) have fewer appearances in that span.
Detroit has done better?
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Boers for years was a beat writer for the Bears. (As well as the Bulls.) Usually when he comes out and says something definitive, he is usually shown to be correct. We will see if that is the case here.
Yes, I know he worked at the Sun-Times, but it's been a LOOOONG time since he was in the business as a real reporter. Just about nobody is around now who was around then; I have a hard time believing Phillips and George McCaskey are feeding him news, and anybody with any real knowledge is long gone from Boers' reporter days. He's been a talkin' head for years and years. I'd believe Bernstein would have sources before Boers.
However, if you say he usually has been right, I will defer to your knowledge.
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My old Bears guy was not close on anything, had either bad info or no info. Didn't see this Pace hire coming. No idea if he'll be great or terrible. Give him 3 years and see.
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Yes, I know he worked at the Sun-Times, but it's been a LOOOONG time since he was in the business as a real reporter. Just about nobody is around now who was around then; I have a hard time believing Phillips and George McCaskey are feeding him news, and anybody with any real knowledge is long gone from Boers' reporter days. He's been a talkin' head for years and years. I'd believe Bernstein would have sources before Boers.
However, if you say he usually has been right, I will defer to your knowledge.
He's not that well connected anymore, however, when he does put his neck out there, it's because the information is good.
He's better with Bulls info than Bears.
Bernstein has a daily source inside Halas.
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My old Bears guy was not close on anything, had either bad info or no info. Didn't see this Pace hire coming. No idea if he'll be great or terrible. Give him 3 years and see.
More like 5 years before you can make any assessments, aina?
Not sure how to feel about it, do like they he comes from an organization with a recent history of success and winning and that he's not from the poisoned Bears tree. His first big hiring should tell us alot.
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So who do all the Bears fans want as coach?
I see that Pace has some minor ties to Merrone, but I don't know if that's a direction he would want to go. My dad asked me what I thought the"best case scenario" was for head coach, and I just simply don't know....
Rex Ryan?
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More like 5 years before you can make any assessments, aina?
Not sure how to feel about it, do like they he comes from an organization with a recent history of success and winning and that he's not from the poisoned Bears tree. His first big hiring should tell us alot.
If I were a Bears fan, I would have two concerns. (Not "red flag" concerns...but mild ones.)
**He's young (37 I think) and has only worked in one organization.
**The Saints have not been the best drafting team in recent years.
Time will tell if this is a good hire or not. Sometimes you just don't know with GM candidates. I mean Green Bay has generated a number of good ones, but the one I thought would be real good (Reggie McKenzie) looks out of his depth in Oakland.
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So who do all the Bears fans want as coach?
I see that Pace has some minor ties to Merrone, but I don't know if that's a direction he would want to go. My dad asked me what I thought the"best case scenario" was for head coach, and I just simply don't know....
Rex Ryan?
If they are doing a multi-year rebuild, I think Bears fans are going to want a guy who can coach and teach young players. Marrone might be that guy. Bowles is another one. I don't think a "larger than life" type like Rex Ryan would be a good fit.
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If I were a Bears fan, I would have two concerns. (Not "red flag" concerns...but mild ones.)
**He's young (37 I think) and has only worked in one organization.
**The Saints have not been the best drafting team in recent years.
Time will tell if this is a good hire or not. Sometimes you just don't know with GM candidates. I mean Green Bay has generated a number of good ones, but the one I thought would be real good (Reggie McKenzie) looks out of his depth in Oakland.
Is that Reggie, or is that Oakland ownership?
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Is that Reggie, or is that Oakland ownership?
Ownership doesn't help, but they supposedly gave him free reign in the draft room and to hire a coach. Neither of which have seemed to work out all that well.
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So who do all the Bears fans want as coach?
I see that Pace has some minor ties to Merrone, but I don't know if that's a direction he would want to go. My dad asked me what I thought the"best case scenario" was for head coach, and I just simply don't know....
Rex Ryan?
I think my order of preference would be:
Todd Bowles
Dan Quinn
Dave Toub
Mike Shanahan
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Abe Gibron
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So who do all the Bears fans want as coach?
I see that Pace has some minor ties to Merrone, but I don't know if that's a direction he would want to go. My dad asked me what I thought the"best case scenario" was for head coach, and I just simply don't know....
Rex Ryan?
Rex Ryan would have been a decent choice last time around, IMO. But with a rebuild on the way, I agree he's not a great choice.
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Abe Gibron
Paddy Driscoll.
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So who do all the Bears fans want as coach?
I see that Pace has some minor ties to Merrone, but I don't know if that's a direction he would want to go. My dad asked me what I thought the"best case scenario" was for head coach, and I just simply don't know....
Rex Ryan?
Best case scenario would be Bill Walsh or papa bear Halas coming back from the grave.
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From Bill Simmons:
Are we really supposed to believe that key Ravens executives knew exactly what happened in the elevator but Roger Goodell and his key reports had no idea whatsoever? It seemed improbable in mid-September and even more improbable now.
If the NFL’s security team handled everything as incompetently as the Mueller Report lays out, then why hasn’t that team been overhauled? Who was to blame? Shouldn’t multiple jobs be lost here?
Are we really supposed to believe that the Associated Press fabricated its report, which would mean it made up not just its source but an imaginary taped phone call too? And if the AP made it up, then why? What would be the AP’s motivation for irrevocably tainting its own credibility?
Goodell sent a September 10 memo to the owners specifically stating that the league asked all the appropriate law enforcement parties for the tape, only the Mueller Report specifically states that the league never asked ANYONE for the tape (not the Atlantic City Police Department, not the Ravens, not the Revel Casino) … so doesn’t that mean Goodell lied to the owners on September 10?2
Why wasn’t the friendship between Goodell and Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti examined more thoroughly if the Mueller Report made it clear that the Ravens knew everything you’d ever want to know about the second elevator tape and even had copies of it, only Goodell and his team went out of their way not to find it or ask for it?
Why did Goodell make it seem like Rice lied to him in their June 16 meeting when Rice told the truth — as we found out during Rice’s appeal hearing — and like there was a “starkly different” sequence of events?
Why was Goodell’s “pursuit” of evidence so uncharacteristically lackadaisical compared to other incidents (like Bountygate) that he pursued so doggedly in the past?
The Ravens came off worse than anyone — instead of volunteering their evidence, basically, they held on to it and hoped Goodell would never ask. (And he didn’t.) It’s impossible to finish the Mueller Report without thinking that either (a) Goodell and his direct reports are spectacularly incompetent, or (b) Goodell did a favor for his buddy Bisciotti by intentionally burying his head in the sand so Rice’s punishment wouldn’t be that onerous. And it’s clear now that the Ravens need to start firing some of the people who bungled this mess from their end. Maybe the players haven’t entered the Colossal Karma Payback zone, but the organization certainly has.
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Paddy Driscoll.
Bears pushing for Kubiak...if hired, he would be the first Bears coach since Paddy with previous HC experience (x Papa Bear).
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Bears pushing for Kubiak...if hired, he would be the first Bears coach since Paddy with previous HC experience (x Papa Bear).
Yeah, but they will never find someone with HC experience and coached at Marquette.
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Yeah, but they will never find someone with HC experience and coached at Marquette.
George Allen still available?
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Another NFC classic and you want to talk about the Bears? Maybe you could give us updates on Tennessee and Jacksonville.
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Another NFC classic and you want to talk about the Bears? Maybe you could give us updates on Tennessee and Jacksonville.
A classic decided by a dumb ass possession rule. Kudos to Rogers on being a gamer. Amazing performance.
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Another NFC classic and you want to talk about the Bears? Maybe you could give us updates on Tennessee and Jacksonville.
Sorry but the thread title does say NFC North thread right? Last time I checked the Bears are still in the NFC north. Great game ruined by a terrible rule, not the call but the rule itself.
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A classic decoded by a dumb ass possession rule. Kudos to Rogers on being a gamer. Amazing performance.
It was the correct call according to the rule. Had the cowboys scored, the packers only needed a field goal to win with over 3 minutes to play.
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Sorry but the thread title does say NFC North thread right? Last time I checked the Bears are still in the NFC north. Great game ruined by a terrible rule, not the call but the rule itself.
I bet you liked the rule a few years ago when the same thing happened to Calvin Johnson against the bears
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I bet you liked the rule a few years ago when the same thing happened to Calvin Johnson against the bears
Like it yea, still thought it was a terrible rule then.
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Could they have ruled Bryant's stretch toward the end zone was a "football move" and thus it would have been a catch?
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Sorry but the thread title does say NFC North thread right? Last time I checked the Bears are still in the NFC north. Great game ruined by a terrible rule, not the call but the rule itself.
Chitown, i'm a Packer fan. I'll take any excuse to tweak Chicago.
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Karma for the Fail Mary in Seattle?
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Lion fan giggles on two levels. The Calvin Johnson call. Dallas losing because of a borderline call.
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Packers had no problem getting into FG range before going into the V formation, so even if it was incorrectly upheld, Pack still win this game.
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Packers had no problem getting into FG range before going into the V formation, so even if it was incorrectly upheld, Pack still win this game.
Right. Rodgers started moving around more and making plays in the 4 th quarter. They most likely get a winning score had the cowboys scored.
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Packers had no problem getting into FG range before going into the V formation, so even if it was incorrectly upheld, Pack still win this game.
Dallas goes for two though, right?
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Dallas goes for two though, right?
Correct, plus the outcome changes because packers are trying to throw the ball rather then run clock out.
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Packers had no problem getting into FG range before going into the V formation, so even if it was incorrectly upheld, Pack still win this game.
Means nothing. Not saying they wouldn't have come back, but you can't use what happened as they were trying to run out the clock as evidence about what would have happened on a potential comeback drive.
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Means nothing. Not saying they wouldn't have come back, but you can't use what happened as they were trying to run out the clock as evidence about what would have happened on a potential comeback drive.
They had no problem picking up a 3rd and 13 on that same drive. Dallas couldn't stop the Packers offense in that 4th quarter. Rodgers finally started to move around a little more and it bought more time for the receivers to get open.
Not to mention, it was the correct call without question, so Packers win.
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Means nothing. Not saying they wouldn't have come back, but you can't use what happened as they were trying to run out the clock as evidence about what would have happened on a potential comeback drive.
Of course you can't use the 4 minute offense to extrapolate what would have happened. But Rodgers was heating up and threw for over 300 yards. They moved the ball at will in the 4 th quarter. Of course you can't say definitively but I would have like their chances.
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I might actually let go of my deep bitterness at the Fail Mary game if the Pack walk off CenturyLink Field as NFC Champions next Sunday. No better payback for that all-time injustice than a win next Sunday.
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I might actually let go of my deep bitterness at the Fail Mary game if the Pack walk off CenturyLink Field as NFC Champions next Sunday. No better payback for that all-time injustice than a win next Sunday.
Agreed. Just don't think we'd even be within a touchdown even with a 100% healthy Aaron Rodgers. And he's not 100%. I don't see it within single digits.
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I must say that it gives me great pleasure to see discussion of another Packers championship game appearance on the same page as another Bears rebuilding project. ;D
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I must say that it gives me great pleasure to see discussion of another Packers championship game appearance on the same page as another Bears rebuilding project. ;D
Cool story bro. You're less than 12 hours off of a big playoff win and you get petty. Go Hawks
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Cool story bro. You're less than 12 hours off of a big playoff win and you get petty. Go Hawks
Live in Chicago and absolutely love the Hawks. Oh, Seahawks? I actually respect and like them too.
And just so you know, I do cheer for the Bears unless it impacts the Pack. Now the Viqueens? Never.
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Agreed. Just don't think we'd even be within a touchdown even with a 100% healthy Aaron Rodgers. And he's not 100%. I don't see it within single digits.
It depends which Rodgers is in Seattle - the Rodgers of the first two and half quarters, or the Rodgers of the last quarter and a half of today's game. If he can play the whole game or majority of the game under the latter scenario, the Pack has a great chance.
I don't know what changed, but it's almost as though someone laid hands on his left calf midway through the 3rd quarter. I really wonder if he made up his mind that I'm going to move around and leave the pocket if I need to, no more babying it. I'm not saying that's what happened, but all of a sudden he was willing to at least step out out of the pocket when the situation called for it, like the TD to Richard Rodgers. I don't know what else explains it. Maybe it just loosened up enough that he could play differently.
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One more thought. If Rodgers pulls off a miracle '120 minutes' and lifts the Lombardi trophy it'll be one of the biggest sports stories of the last 50 years. Mind you. I don't think it's remotely likely. But it's fun to dream.
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I don't know what changed, but it's almost as though someone laid hands on his left calf midway through the 3rd quarter. I really wonder if he made up his mind that I'm going to move around and leave the pocket if I need to, no more babying it. I'm not saying that's what happened, but all of a sudden he was willing to at least step out out of the pocket when the situation called for it, like the TD to Richard Rodgers. I don't know what else explains it. Maybe it just loosened up enough that he could play differently.
Toradol is a hell of a drug.
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I knew I shouldn't have watched the NFL Network recap of the game with Deion and Irvin. Even Rich Eisen was joining in on the weeping over the Dez Bryant incompletion. Fair to question what happened on that play? Absolutely. What's sickening is there's no pretense of neutrality, the Cowboy bias is just in your face. And this is the official network of the entire league? Ridiculous.
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Bottom line. He didn't catch the ball based on the rules. As soon as the ground popped it out incomplete was the only possible ruling. Bears/Lions. Done. Most experts I've heard agree.
Personally I think a rule tweak is in order because it was one heck of a 'catch'.
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Pretty ironic that the Cowboys of all teams are whining about a call. If the officials had gotten it right the week before, they would have been watching yesterday's game on TV.
And just to show that the TV commentators are biased toward the Cowboys, nobody is even mentioning the pass interference call against the Packers in the end zone...the one that was diplomatically called 'ticky tack' by Mike Periera. That weak call led to a Cowboys TD on the next play.
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One more thought. If Rodgers pulls off a miracle '120 minutes' and lifts the Lombardi trophy it'll be one of the biggest sports stories of the last 50 years. Mind you. I don't think it's remotely likely. But it's fun to dream.
Miracle? After the New England game Green Bay was the clear cut favorite to win the super bowl. It's not like this is Jacksonville going up to Seattle. The Packers could very well win this game.
Here are the Quarterbacks Seattle has faced since their “resurgence”
Alex Smith (Lost)
Stanton
Kaepernick
Sanchez
Kaepernick
Lindley
Hill
Newton
All of those teams either sucked or were in decline when Seattle played them with the exception of Carolina. None of those QB's or teams were offensive juggarnauts. Seattle is the flavor of the last few weeks with "experts", but don't buy all the hype. This will be a closer match up than you think.
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One more thought. If Rodgers pulls off a miracle '120 minutes' and lifts the Lombardi trophy it'll be one of the biggest sports stories of the last 50 years. Mind you. I don't think it's remotely likely. But it's fun to dream.
The best QB in football winning a Super Bowl with a sore leg? Not to burst your bubble, but that's a blip on the radar in a 50-year window of sports stories. It wouldn't even be the biggest sports story of this NFL season.
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All of those teams either sucked or were in decline when Seattle played them with the exception of Carolina.
No, Carolina definitely sucks (I do like their LBs though).
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Bottom line. He didn't catch the ball based on the rules. As soon as the ground popped it out incomplete was the only possible ruling. Bears/Lions. Done. Most experts I've heard agree.
Personally I think a rule tweak is in order because it was one heck of a 'catch'.
The issue is that the NFL's rule are supposed to make it clear-cut for the officials but the phrasing of "an act common to the game" is open for interpretation. To many people, having possession and stretching the ball out is an act common to the game. The officials saw it differently.
The interesting thing is that there were 4 games this weekend and happenings in two of them will likely lead directly to rule changes this offseason (catch rule and "substitution deception").
Overlooked, but the biggest play of this game was actually when Peppers stripped Murray. If he doesn't make that play, Murray is gone and it's 21-10 and we have an entirely different ballgame. Instead, GB took over and ended up cutting the lead to 1 with a FG.
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The issue is that the NFL's rule are supposed to make it clear-cut for the officials but the phrasing of "an act common to the game" is open for interpretation. To many people, having possession and stretching the ball out is an act common to the game. The officials saw it differently.
The interesting thing is that there were 4 games this weekend and happenings in two of them will likely lead directly to rule changes this offseason (catch rule and "substitution deception").
Overlooked, but the biggest play of this game was actually when Peppers stripped Murray. If he doesn't make that play, Murray is gone and it's 21-10 and we have an entirely different ballgame. Instead, GB took over and ended up cutting the lead to 1 with a FG.
Dez got three steps down and extended... the problem is, for two of those steps, the ball was not under control. Credit Sam Shields for getting a hand in there just long enough to keep the ball moving around. As Periera said, possession is one thing, control is another.
I don't care what the Calvin Johnson rule says about "process" and "going to the ground." If you're juggling the ball going to the ground, you finally get it under control long enough to take one step before you hit the ground which causes the ball to "jump" out of your hands... even under the rules pre-Johnson, that's not a catch.
(EDIT) Watch the replay... count the number of steps Johnson takes after he gains initial control of the ball. Hint: the answer is 1.
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Dez got three steps down and extended... the problem is, for two of those steps, the ball was not under control. Credit Sam Shields for getting a hand in there just long enough to keep the ball moving around. As Periera said, possession is one thing, control is another.
I don't care what the Calvin Johnson rule says about "process" and "going to the ground." If you're juggling the ball going to the ground, you finally get it under control long enough to take one step before you hit the ground which causes the ball to "jump" out of your hands... even under the rules pre-Johnson, that's not a catch.
Watch the replay... count the number of steps Johnson takes before he gains initial control of the ball. Hint: the answer is 1.
Exactly. That is what nobody is talking about. It's the combination of him not having complete control of the ball for his first step, plus his third step is really just him falling to the ground so his leg is obviously going to contact the ground at some point. The ball then comes out with him having controlled the ball for all of one step. Incomplete pass.
The PI call in the end zone was a bad one, but there were 2 others that really frustrated me (and I try not to get upset about reffing calls because in the end they always even out). One was the late hit call on Lang. I get the call itself if he was the only person to continue on after the play, but the defender who was tackling Adams threw Adams to the ground after Lang blocked one of the other Cowboys. If Lang's hit was late, then the defender's hit on Adams was lateer, but I guess there's no later hit penalty in the NFL. The other was the holding they called on I believe Jones on a punt return in maybe the 3rd quarter, which wasn't a hold at all, and then they threw a flag for a late hit on a Cowboy player, and never even addressed the 2nd flag that they threw. They acted as if it was never even thrown, despite being thrown after the play, and after the flag for holding was called. Odd.
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I knew I shouldn't have watched the NFL Network recap of the game with Deion and Irvin. Even Rich Eisen was joining in on the weeping over the Dez Bryant incompletion. Fair to question what happened on that play? Absolutely. What's sickening is there's no pretense of neutrality, the Cowboy bias is just in your face. And this is the official network of the entire league? Ridiculous.
Packers fans can't say jack. The media is constantly chocking on the Packers and Rodgers collective dick. The one time the media doesn't go your way and you complain. For the record, by the rule book I agree it was not a catch. But it's a bad rule to begin with.
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Overlooked, but the biggest play of this game was actually when Peppers stripped Murray. If he doesn't make that play, Murray is gone and it's 21-10 and we have an entirely different ballgame. Instead, GB took over and ended up cutting the lead to 1 with a FG.
Announcers love to say stuff like this, but you do not know he would have scored on that play. There was a safety back and another corner in the vicinity. You can play that what if game all day if you want. What would have happened if Brad Jones doesn't get a boneheaded penalty on third down of the Cowboys second possession. They would have punted and Green Bay possibly goes up 14-0 early in the game and we are talking about a possible blow out.
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Packers fans can't say jack. The media is constantly chocking on the Packers and Rodgers collective dick. The one time the media doesn't go your way and you complain. For the record, by the rule book I agree it was not a catch. But it's a bad rule to begin with.
I see a lot of people calling it a bad rule. I disagree and always have. It is a great rule. If I was the receiver in that same situation, I would not consider that catching the ball. As a kid when my brother and I practiced diving catches/difficult catches, we wouldn't have counted it as a catch if when going to the ground we lost it.
Catching the ball should be universally obvious. If there is any question in my opinion it is not a catch. When he went to the ground, the ball clearly hit the ground and he lost it...not a catch...never. To change the rule would be redefining what a catch is.
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I see a lot of people calling it a bad rule. I disagree and always have. It is a great rule. If I was the receiver in that same situation, I would not consider that catching the ball. As a kid when my brother and I practiced diving catches/difficult catches, we wouldn't have counted it as a catch if when going to the ground we lost it.
Oh, well in that case, why are we even having this silly discussion?
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Packers fans can't say jack. The media is constantly chocking on the Packers and Rodgers collective dick. The one time the media doesn't go your way and you complain. For the record, by the rule book I agree it was not a catch. But it's a bad rule to begin with.
You're right. As a GB fan, I think we are treated more than fair.
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Oh, well in that case, why are we even having this silly discussion?
My brother and I counted banked-in jumpers as misses when we played one-on-one in the driveway. I'm trying to petition the NBA and NCAA to follow suit.
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My brother and I counted banked-in jumpers as misses when we played one-on-one in the driveway. I'm trying to petition the NBA and NCAA to follow suit.
BUT do they count if you call your bank? Does the call have to come before the release of the shot or can it be after you realize you had a horrible release on the shot and that's the only chance for it to go in?
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BUT do they count if you call your bank? Does the call have to come before the release of the shot or can it be after you realize you had a horrible release on the shot and that's the only chance for it to go in?
No calling of banks allowed.
Banking only allowed on lay-ups.
If there is any dispute about a particular shot being considered a lay-up, the "do over" rule is immediately invoked.
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No calling of banks allowed.
Banking only allowed on lay-ups.
If there is any dispute about a particular shot being considered a lay-up, the "do over" rule is immediately invoked.
Oh come on now. You'd take away like 1/4 of Dwyane Wade's made field goals. Crafty shot, if intentionally done. Has to be before the release though.
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I think the NCAA should allow it only if the player calls it first. And for the record, I heard Juan call "bank" before his recent three. People misinterpreted his holding his palms up and shrugging as an acknowledgement that it was unintentional, but he was really saying "I told you. What else do you want me to show you guys?"
;)
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Two things. Rodgers isn't playing on a 'sore leg'. He's playing on a relatively severe calf sprain that has materially limited his game if not his effectiveness. Second, I suspect no rule change will take place. The beauty of the Calvin Johnson rule is that it seeks to remove interpretation from the call. If when you fall to the ground and the ball gets dislodged and actually touches the playing surface it's ruled incomplete. Dez did all this in one continuous motion. Therefore incomplete actually was an easy call. Many sources posted the exact rule; the play fit perfectly
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Two things. Rodgers isn't playing on a 'sore leg'. He's playing on a relatively severe calf sprain that has materially limited his game if not his effectiveness.
I know that his injury is more serious but in the grand scheme of memorable sports stories between 1965 and today, Rodgers is playing with a sore leg.
Second, I suspect no rule change will take place. The beauty of the Calvin Johnson rule is that it seeks to remove interpretation from the call. If when you fall to the ground and the ball gets dislodged and actually touches the playing surface it's ruled incomplete. Dez did all this in one continuous motion. Therefore incomplete actually was an easy call. Many sources posted the exact rule; the play fit perfectly
If the call was that simple then it wouldn't have been analyzed and overanalyzed as much as it has been over the last 24 hours. Mike Pereira even admitted that Bryant extended his arm but then said he didn't extend it enough for it to be considered a "football move." That certainly leaves a lot open to interpretation (seems like he either extended his arm or he didn't - cut and dry). The rule will be altered this offseason. Mark it down!
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Two things. Rodgers isn't playing on a 'sore leg'. He's playing on a relatively severe calf sprain that has materially limited his game if not his effectiveness. Second, I suspect no rule change will take place. The beauty of the Calvin Johnson rule is that it seeks to remove interpretation from the call. If when you fall to the ground and the ball gets dislodged and actually touches the playing surface it's ruled incomplete. Dez did all this in one continuous motion. Therefore incomplete actually was an easy call. Many sources posted the exact rule; the play fit perfectly
Rodgers is a HOF player. He's the best QB in the league.
But, you're overblowing the injury.
Is it a big deal? Sure. It's a big story.
Is it one of the biggest potential sports stories/narratives in the past 50 years? No. No it's not.
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I know that his injury is more serious but in the grand scheme of memorable sports stories between 1965 and today, Rodgers is playing with a sore leg.
If the call was that simple then it wouldn't have been analyzed and overanalyzed as much as it has been over the last 24 hours. Mike Pereira even admitted that Bryant extended his arm but then said he didn't extend it enough for it to be considered a "football move." That certainly leaves a lot open to interpretation (seems like he either extended his arm or he didn't - cut and dry). The rule will be altered this offseason. Mark it down!
What I immediately said was that he never actually extended the ball to the point of it being a football move. What I mean by that is sure, he moved his arm out away from his body, but he did it in a way that you would do if you were breaking your fall, which he was, and which I don't consider to be a football move. When I think of extending the ball to reach for a touchdown, I'm thinking the player has the ball at the very least extended past his shoulder, and probably past his eye level. Bryant had the ball basically where his arm pit is, just extended towards the ground, not in a way that was reaching for a touchdown, like he tried to claim.
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I know that his injury is more serious but in the grand scheme of memorable sports stories between 1965 and today, Rodgers is playing with a sore leg.
If the call was that simple then it wouldn't have been analyzed and overanalyzed as much as it has been over the last 24 hours. Mike Pereira even admitted that Bryant extended his arm but then said he didn't extend it enough for it to be considered a "football move." That certainly leaves a lot open to interpretation (seems like he either extended his arm or he didn't - cut and dry). The rule will be altered this offseason. Mark it down!
Legitimate question, does anyone have a suggestion as to what the rule would change to? The only change I can see that would have made a difference is to make a "catch" a purely subjective judgment call, like pass interference or holding. Maybe that is what folks want, but I can just imagine that a purely subjective test would end much more controversy than the current objective standard (especially if a "catch" would be unreviewable, like other judgement calls).
Full disclosure, I'm a Packers fan, so you can take this as homerism if you like, but, to me, while it was an incredible play on the ball, he just didn't come to the ground with full possession. I accept that there is a reasonable argument that he possessed it fully before that point. I think there is an equally reasonable argument that its tough to say he had possession when he's in the process of falling as he catches the ball and the ball hits the ground as he does. At the very least, even with a purely subjective test, I don't think the clear "catch" everyone is making it out to be. The fact that it was such a spectacular play on the ball combined with the massive importance of the outcome of the call is causing people to overstate their cases a bit.
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My brother and I counted banked-in jumpers as misses when we played one-on-one in the driveway. I'm trying to petition the NBA and NCAA to follow suit.
That's not remotely equivalent. The basketball equivalent would be the ball going through the rim, but not clearing the net. Some would say that should be a basket.
I, nor you would count it, as the shot did not complete the process. A person understanding a score (like a reception) would have understood that it is not a basket.
My point is that even kids understand what it means to make a catch, not that my childhood determined the rules.
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John Fox out in Denver. A viable option in Chicago?
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John Fox out in Denver. A viable option in Chicago?
He's too smart to jump into that dumpster fire
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John Fox out in Denver. A viable option in Chicago?
My only preference, as it's pretty obvious we're going through a rebuild/turnover, is someone with a track record of developing young talent.
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John Fox out in Denver. A viable option in Chicago?
John Fox would have been an outstanding hire for the 2013 Bears* who were coming off a 10-6 season and needed someone to get them over the hump before their window closed. Instead, the Bears whiffed on the hire of both GM (in 2012) and coach and the window slammed shut.
Fox does have connections to Ernie Accorsi though so you never know.
* - Fox obviously wasn't available at that time. Just saying that he's the type of coach who would be ideal in a "ready to win now" situation.
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John Fox would have been an outstanding hire for the 2013 Bears* who were coming off a 10-6 season and needed someone to get them over the hump before their window closed. Instead, the Bears whiffed on the hire of both GM (in 2012) and coach and the window slammed shut.
Fox does have connections to Ernie Accorsi though so you never know.
* - Fox obviously wasn't available at that time. Just saying that he's the type of coach who would be ideal in a "ready to win now" situation.
Agree. I think the 49ers and Falcons openings should be fairly attractive to Fox. The Bears need a rebuild.
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I see a lot of people calling it a bad rule. I disagree and always have. It is a great rule. If I was the receiver in that same situation, I would not consider that catching the ball. As a kid when my brother and I practiced diving catches/difficult catches, we wouldn't have counted it as a catch if when going to the ground we lost it.
Catching the ball should be universally obvious. If there is any question in my opinion it is not a catch. When he went to the ground, the ball clearly hit the ground and he lost it...not a catch...never. To change the rule would be redefining what a catch is.
It's a bad rule. Calvin Johnson caught a touchdown pass against the Bears a few years ago and deliberately set the ball on the ground to begin celebrating the touchdown. By rule in the NFL, that was not a catch. If you and your brother wouldn't have counted that as a catch, you were playing the game wrong!
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It's a bad rule. Calvin Johnson caught a touchdown pass against the Bears a few years ago and deliberately set the ball on the ground to begin celebrating the touchdown. By rule in the NFL, that was not a catch. If you and your brother wouldn't have counted that as a catch, you were playing the game wrong!
In both cases, if the equivalent play happened and when going to the ground the ball was knocked out of their hands, it would not be a fumble, because they hadn't made a football move.
So why should it be a complete catch, if dropping it would also not be a fumble?
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Packers fans can't say jack. The media is constantly chocking on the Packers and Rodgers collective dick. The one time the media doesn't go your way and you complain. For the record, by the rule book I agree it was not a catch. But it's a bad rule to begin with.
I didn't ask for a Packer bias did I? I asked for a level of neutrality, that's all. I don't think it's to much to ask for the official NETWORK OF THE LEAGUE to present an unbiased account and analysis of the games. It felt like watching a live telecast of a funeral the way Eisen, Deion, and Irvin presented the game and analysis. The way they run that network is typical of the league's arrogance though.
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In both cases, if the equivalent play happened and when going to the ground the ball was knocked out of their hands, it would not be a fumble, because they hadn't made a football move.
So why should it be a complete catch, if dropping it would also not be a fumble?
Because CJ caught the ball, got both feet down, fell on his back and then deliberately set the ball on the ground while rolling over. That's a catch in any football league besides the NFL. A scenario where the ball gets knocked out by a defender can't be used as an "equivalent" in that case.
Plus, CJ was in the end zone when he caught the ball. There are no fumbles in the end zone so again, the comparison isn't valid.
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Because CJ caught the ball, got both feet down, fell on his back and then deliberately set the ball on the ground while rolling over. That's a catch in any football league besides the NFL. A scenario where the ball gets knocked out by a defender can't be used as an "equivalent" in that case.
Plus, CJ was in the end zone when he caught the ball. There are no fumbles in the end zone so again, the comparison isn't valid.
First, CJ didn't "set the ball on the ground" he pushed off the ground with the ball and it came out. Second, if in the field of play, while moving towards the ground with the ball (same exact scenario), the defender hit the ball and it came out. It would not have been a fumble, because it was never a complete pass. A complete pass is a complete pass, whether it is in the end zone or anywhere else. So they are directly comparable.
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First, CJ didn't "set the ball on the ground" he pushed off the ground with the ball and it came out. Second, if in the field of play, while moving towards the ground with the ball (same exact scenario), the defender hit the ball and it came out. It would not have been a fumble, because it was never a complete pass. A complete pass is a complete pass, whether it is in the end zone or anywhere else. So they are directly comparable.
Ok, I just watched the video again. Sorry, NFL stadiums and your childhood back yard are the only two places where that play is an incomplete pass.
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Legitimate question, does anyone have a suggestion as to what the rule would change to? The only change I can see that would have made a difference is to make a "catch" a purely subjective judgment call, like pass interference or holding. Maybe that is what folks want, but I can just imagine that a purely subjective test would end much more controversy than the current objective standard (especially if a "catch" would be unreviewable, like other judgement calls).
Full disclosure, I'm a Packers fan, so you can take this as homerism if you like, but, to me, while it was an incredible play on the ball, he just didn't come to the ground with full possession. I accept that there is a reasonable argument that he possessed it fully before that point. I think there is an equally reasonable argument that its tough to say he had possession when he's in the process of falling as he catches the ball and the ball hits the ground as he does. At the very least, even with a purely subjective test, I don't think the clear "catch" everyone is making it out to be. The fact that it was such a spectacular play on the ball combined with the massive importance of the outcome of the call is causing people to overstate their cases a bit.
I don't understand how you jump to the conclusion that the only alternative is a purely subjective judgement call. I think it would be pretty simple. If a receiver has full possession of the ball when his feet/body hit the ground, it's a catch. If he loses the ball in the process of rolling over, standing up, diving for the end zone, etc., it's a fumble. If the ball hits the ground before he has full possession, it's an incomplete pass.
Either way, there is a subjective element to it. Eliminating the BS about completing the entire process of the catch wouldn't necessarily make it a purely subjective judgement call.
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Bears fans meet your future ex ;D
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0c6cbe6ae69c8d965432ad6bbffac6dd9b534725/c=462-0-4444-2996&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/USATODAY/GenericImages/2013/09/11/1378930961000-john-fox.jpg)
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Bears fans meet your future ex ;D
(http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0c6cbe6ae69c8d965432ad6bbffac6dd9b534725/c=462-0-4444-2996&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/USATODAY/GenericImages/2013/09/11/1378930961000-john-fox.jpg)
I am A-ok if Fox is the next coach.
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Bears reportedly to hire John Fox as the new HC, don't know how good the source is however:
http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24963554/report-bears-to-hire-john-fox-as-head-coach
#DoneDeal?
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Interesting interview on the Score yesterday about how Accorsi might have known about Fox's discontent in Denver, and that the Bears set this up to get him. (The GM has ties to the Giants through Sean Payton.)
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Bears reportedly to hire John Fox as the new HC, don't know how good the source is however:
http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24963554/report-bears-to-hire-john-fox-as-head-coach
#DoneDeal?
I wouldn't think it is done, as Twitter is really quiet. Only seems to be one "BleacherReporter" pushing the story. Also, if done, why did they let him leave Chicago. Unless it was to go get Gase.
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Interesting interview on the Score yesterday about how Accorsi might have known about Fox's discontent in Denver, and that the Bears set this up to get him. (The GM has ties to the Giants through Sean Payton.)
I find it a bit far-fetched that the Bears would hire Pace in large part because he worked with a head coach who had worked on the same staff with another current head coach who may be on the way out. Seems like a stretch. One would think that Accorsi's connection to Fox would be enough.
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If this turns into Fox with Gase as OC and bringing back Dennis Allen as DC, color me pretty excited, all things considered.
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I wouldn't think it is done, as Twitter is really quiet. Only seems to be one "BleacherReporter" pushing the story. Also, if done, why did they let him leave Chicago. Unless it was to go get Gase.
They let Pace leave. Then He returned the next day as GM
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They let Pace leave. Then He returned the next day as GM
True.
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Respect the process
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Respect the process
Spot on.
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I wouldn't think it is done, as Twitter is really quiet. Only seems to be one "BleacherReporter" pushing the story. Also, if done, why did they let him leave Chicago. Unless it was to go get Gase.
The Score is pretty much saying it is done and going back to Denver was to ask staff to come with him.
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Congrats Packers fan on win. I've been a bit tied up. Good game. We had our chances, I hate it when people think one play or one call decides a game. It doesn't. I hate the rule, thought the refs got the call right by the letter of the rule. Besides, we had plenty of other opportunities. 3rd youngest team, so hoping we are around a few years.
Best of luck against Seattle
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Congrats Packers fan on win. I've been a bit tied up. Good game. We had our chances, I hate it when people think one play or one call decides a game. It doesn't. I hate the rule, thought the refs got the call right by the letter of the rule. Besides, we had plenty of other opportunities. 3rd youngest team, so hoping we are around a few years.
Best of luck against Seattle
Who is younger? I would assume the Packers given that Rodgers is the 3rd oldest player on the roster at 31. And who else?
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Who is younger? I would assume the Packers given that Rodgers is the 3rd oldest player on the roster at 31. And who else?
Coming into the season (avg age)...
1. STL (25.09)
2. KC
3. Jax
4. Dallas
5. Min
6. GB
.
.
.
30. Bears
31. Giants
32. Raiders (27.0)
The Rams have actually been the youngest team 3 years in a row. In the NFL, being a "young team" doesn't matter nearly as much as "having a top-tier QB."
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Congrats Packers fan on win. I've been a bit tied up. Good game. We had our chances, I hate it when people think one play or one call decides a game. It doesn't. I hate the rule, thought the refs got the call right by the letter of the rule. Besides, we had plenty of other opportunities. 3rd youngest team, so hoping we are around a few years.
Best of luck against Seattle
Dallas finally got out of the "signing big name free agents and working out the cap stuff later" line of thinking and started to understand how to build a team. They can win with this year's Romo. Sign Dez, let Murray walk, and they will be in great shape next year too.
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Except when Jerry cashes his boner with Adrian Peterson this offseason, right?
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Except when Jerry cashes his boner with Adrian Peterson this offseason, right?
Was just typing a similar comment. It seems to be a likely scenario.
Vikings(although Asiata is intriguing), Cardinals, and or Colts should go hard after Murray.
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Except when Jerry cashes his boner with Adrian Peterson this offseason, right?
AP is going to be a dirt-cheap deal (in relative terms) for whoever signs him. Seems like a perfect fit for the Cowboys.
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AP has indicated he doesn't want less money, I know, good luck with that
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If I was Jerry I wouldn't shell out much for Murray
This was the only season where he didn't look to be totally made of glass, plus those 400+ touches he racked up definitely didn't do his already injury prone body any favors.
Dez on the other hand....pay that man.
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If I was Jerry I wouldn't shell out much for Murray
This was the only season where he didn't look to be totally made of glass, plus those 400+ touches he racked up definitely didn't do his already injury prone body any favors.
Dez on the other hand....pay that man.
Plus I think the credit for the running game goes more to the offensive line than it does to Murray. And I wouldn't sign Peterson if I were Jones either.
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Plus I think the credit for the running game goes more to the offensive line than it does to Murray. And I wouldn't sign Peterson if I were Jones either.
Exactly. Joseph Randle averaged 6.7 yards per carry behind that line. There's no reason to give a RB big money.
Jerry resisted the urge to draft Manziel so maybe he can restrain himself on AP too.
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Dallas finally got out of the "signing big name free agents and working out the cap stuff later" line of thinking and started to understand how to build a team. They can win with this year's Romo. Sign Dez, let Murray walk, and they will be in great shape next year too.
I sure hope so....Jerrah has been an idiot the last decade plus, but they seem to finally be on the right path. If Murray walks, he walks. Good player, but fumble prone and injuries pop up (though this year he was a horse).
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Except when Jerry cashes his boner with Adrian Peterson this offseason, right?
He might, but if he does I think it will be cheap....due to AP's issues, AP is from Texas so there is the discount, and no income taxes in Texas means a contract is worth more in real dollars.
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Exactly. Joseph Randle averaged 6.7 yards per carry behind that line. There's no reason to give a RB big money.
Jerry resisted the urge to draft Manziel so maybe he can restrain himself on AP too.
Randle cannot last an entire season, he is too fragile. He's a good change up back, but no way would survive the season as the primary.
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http://rabbithole.deadspin.com/aint-no-pain-like-a-brett-favre-int-1679964505
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Bears officially agree to terms with John Fox. Like that they went with a proven winner. Other than Lovie, the coordinator route hadn't been working to well for them as of late.
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John Fox hire does nothing for me, at all. Seems totally safe, conservative. It's getting difficult for me to enjoy anything that this organization is willing to offer. This was a chance for them to clean house all around, really try to start fresh. I'd have been more than fine with them blowing things up, going 2-14 next season, as long as they were working towards something. All this hire does is mean they'll be somewhere between 4-12 and 9-7 next year, and the year after.
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Bears officially agree to terms with John Fox. Like that they went with a proven winner. Other than Lovie, the coordinator route hadn't been working to well for them as of late.
As a GB fan, I like the hire. As one of the older coaches in the league, I don't see Fox doing to top-to-bottom re-build, which means we will probably see Jay under center (yippee!!!) into the future.
I do think that Fox (along with the new GM) will strengthen the roster long term, but I can't see them being relevant for a while.
I'd like to see what Bears fan here think about the hire.
Edit: Dish, I guess we are seeing the same thing.
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John Fox hire does nothing for me, at all. Seems totally safe, conservative. It's getting difficult for me to enjoy anything that this organization is willing to offer. This was a chance for them to clean house all around, really try to start fresh. I'd have been more than fine with them blowing things up, going 2-14 next season, as long as they were working towards something. All this hire does is mean they'll be somewhere between 4-12 and 9-7 next year, and the year after.
I do agree with this. I don't think it's a bad hire, but I also don't think this is going to take them to the next level. We know what Fox has/is, and that is a good, but not great, coach. It's certainly better than Trestaman, but I think they could've done better.
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I do agree with this. I don't think it's a bad hire, but I also don't think this is going to take them to the next level. We know what Fox has/is, and that is a good, but not great, coach. It's certainly better than Trestaman, but I think they could've done better.
Who do you think would've been the better hire?
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I would have gone after Sumlin or Shaw.
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As a GB fan, I like the hire. As one of the older coaches in the league, I don't see Fox doing to top-to-bottom re-build, which means we will probably see Jay under center (yippee!!!) into the future.
I do think that Fox (along with the new GM) will strengthen the roster long term, but I can't see them being relevant for a while.
I'd like to see what Bears fan here think about the hire.
Edit: Dish, I guess we are seeing the same thing.
You'll probably see Cutler for one more year, but I wouldn't count on anything after that.
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I would have gone after Sumlin or Shaw.
You can make strong arguments for why Fox is a better hire than either of those guys (and any other candidate for that matter)
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First time the Bears hired a HC with previous HC experience since 1956.
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John Fox hire does nothing for me, at all. Seems totally safe, conservative. It's getting difficult for me to enjoy anything that this organization is willing to offer. This was a chance for them to clean house all around, really try to start fresh. I'd have been more than fine with them blowing things up, going 2-14 next season, as long as they were working towards something. All this hire does is mean they'll be somewhere between 4-12 and 9-7 next year, and the year after.
Agree. It's kind of "meh" hire. Going with a 60-year-old (who's had health problems fairly recently) to lead a rebuild doesn't seem like the best long-term plan. Then again, the Bears had a top 10 offense in 2013 and Cutler was playing fairly well early in 2014 before Trestman completely lost his trust and lost the team, and if they could get that going again, plus improve the D...Oh, sorry. I'm just trying to talk myself into this hire.
Personally, I would have rather seen the Bears go with Jack Del Rio or Todd Bowles or even take a chance on a college coach like Kevin Sumlin or Gary Patterson. I said it before but I think that a coach like John Fox is who the Bears needed when they were "on the verge"...but hired Trestman.
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You can make strong arguments for why Fox is a better hire than either of those guys (and any other candidate for that matter)
That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
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That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
Agree 100%
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That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
I don't see how this hire makes the Bears unable to compete for championships and how a first time coach would?
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I don't see how this hire makes the Bears unable to compete for championships and how a first time coach would?
We don't know what plan Fox has for Cutler. But if there is one thing that we do know, it is this: they will not compete for a championship as long as Jay is the QB.
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I don't see how this hire makes the Bears unable to compete for championships and how a first time coach would?
The model is Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore.
Hire a guy who represents what you want your organization to be. What attitude your team will have, what type of players you'll bring in. McCarthy, Tomlin, Harbaugh were never head coaches previously. Those teams compete year in and year out.
There is not a chance John Fox is coaching the Bears six years from now. No way.
Dave Toub I would have been happy with too.
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I like Del Rio a lot. That's who I would've wanted this off season. Patterson is an interesting name to bring up.
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That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
John Fox is just one year older than when the Giants hired Tom Coughlin back in 2004. He's the same age as Pete Carroll was when he was hired in Seattle. Even if he coaches six years, that is a long time in the NFL. Both Coughlin and Carroll won Super Bowls within six years of their hires.
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The model is Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore.
Hire a guy who represents what you want your organization to be. What attitude your team will have, what type of players you'll bring in. McCarthy, Tomlin, Harbaugh were never head coaches previously. Those teams compete year in and year out.
There is not a chance John Fox is coaching the Bears six years from now. No way.
Dave Toub I would have been happy with too.
I'm not saying a first year head coach can't be successful, I also don't think there is any reason why Fox can't deliver all the things you want from a coach.
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I like Del Rio a lot. That's who I would've wanted this off season. Patterson is an interesting name to bring up.
Outside of the fact he is younger, what does Del Rio give you that Fox doesn't? Fox's track record is a lot better.
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The model is Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore.
Hire a guy who represents what you want your organization to be. What attitude your team will have, what type of players you'll bring in. McCarthy, Tomlin, Harbaugh were never head coaches previously. Those teams compete year in and year out.
There is not a chance John Fox is coaching the Bears six years from now. No way.
Dave Toub I would have been happy with too.
And isn't Dave Toub the exact opposite of starting fresh? The same reason why Ballard shouldn't have been hired.
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John Fox is just one year older than when the Giants hired Tom Coughlin back in 2004. He's the same age as Pete Carroll was when he was hired in Seattle. Even if he coaches six years, that is a long time in the NFL. Both Coughlin and Carroll won Super Bowls within six years of their hires.
Fox's in game coaching decisions will not get him to Canton any time soon. Case in point, the 2013 AFC Divisional playoff game vs Baltimore is glaring.
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And isn't Dave Toub the exact opposite of starting fresh? The same reason why Ballard shouldn't have been hired.
I like Toub a lot. He's innovative, developed players at the back end of the locker room, well respected. Fact that he worked there previously had no bearing on me.
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Fox's in game coaching decisions will not get him to Canton any time soon. Case in point, the 2013 AFC Divisional playoff game vs Baltimore is glaring.
I understand that concern. It just seemed like you were concerned that he an old, retread more than anything.
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Hey Bears fans...at least you didn't hire this guy. The anti-Harbaugh.
http://deadspin.com/new-49ers-coach-jim-tomsula-mumbles-and-huffs-his-way-t-1680004518
(He might be really good, but this was a little strange.)
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Hey, at least they didnt get McDaniels
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That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
Unfortunately with the NFL you have to win now...not every franchise has the luxury of waiting to develop a young coach for the next three years to establish a decade of success.
green bay fans have made it known as recent as this year how McCarthy has made them angry at times.
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Unfortunately with the NFL you have to win now...not every franchise has the luxury of waiting to develop a young coach for the next three years to establish a decade of success.
green bay fans have made it known as recent as this year how McCarthy has made them angry at times.
McCarthey was a little known assistant when the packers hired him. i wouldn't use scoop posters as an example of how fans feel toward mccarthey
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McCarthey was a little known assistant when the packers hired him. i wouldn't use scoop posters as an example of how fans feel toward mccarthey
I would argue that Green Bay's success is probably more a byproduct of Aaron Rodgers and not Mike McCarthy.
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That's a short term point of view. I don't care about the short term, I want them to compete for championships for the next decade. This hire doesn't accomplish this. This is patching up the car to make it run for another two years, just delaying the inevitable.
I'm ok with the hire...I think they needed someone with credibility and quite frankly, not everyone was busting down the door for the bears job:
Rex Ryan - didn't want it
Todd Bowles - didn't want it
Gary Kubiak - didn't want it but now is willing to interview in Denver.
Dan Quinn - doesn't want it (Wanted the Jets gig now sounds like he wants to end up in ATL)
If you're left looking at Doug Marrone, Teryl Austin, and John Fox, I think you hire Fox.
We will certainly see but after thinking outside the box with Trestman i think you need to make a bit safer hire.
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I would argue that Green Bay's success is probably more a byproduct of Aaron Rodgers and not Mike McCarthy.
silly argument. Any successful coach has good players. He still has to manage the team. Would you say belicheck success is because of Brady?
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silly argument. Any successful coach has good players. He still has to manage the team. Would you say belicheck success is because of Brady?
Bellicheck is 11-5 in games without Brady...McCarthy is something like 3-5-1 in games without Rodgers.
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I'm okay with Fox. I think he has a decent track record. More than anything, I'm positive he'll bring in qualified/known/quality coordinators/assistants, which, beyond Lovie getting Marinelli, I can't say either of the last few Bears' coaches have done. Also, I think Fox will be a very steady, positive influence over the team/players going forward.
My guess is Pace wanted a safe hire for now, so he can draft/acquire free agents in a rebuild attempt. Then, in 3-5 years, bring in a young, rising coach to push the young, developing team to the next level.
My question, and I don't know the answer, is whether Fox is good at developing young talent. I know he was okay with his defense in Denver and Carolina.
Further, re: Kubiak, I think that is VERY telling. Says no to leaving Baltimore when Chicago was searching, but now will talk to Denver? Interesting.
Only other candidates I would have liked were Bowles, Kubiak or Toub. I think Toub, like Ballard, was out d/t prior ties.
I'm somewhat glad we didn't hire the "hot" assistant/coordinator or a college coach. At least for this team/roster right now.
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Bellicheck is 11-5 in games without Brady...McCarthy is something like 3-5-1 in games without Rodgers.
When Rodgers went down, the backups were Seneca freaking Wallace and matt tolzein before they finally picked up an injured Flynn. Vince Lombardi couldn't win with that. It's not as simple as just looking at record. McCarthey kept that team together last year. He is easily a top 3 to 5 coach in the league. Any packer fan that says otherwise is either spoiled or not paying attention.
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Further, re: Kubiak, I think that is VERY telling. Says no to leaving Baltimore when Chicago was searching, but now will talk to Denver? Interesting.
Only other candidates I would have liked were Bowles, Kubiak or Toub. I think Toub, like Ballard, was out d/t prior ties.
I'm somewhat glad we didn't hire the "hot" assistant/coordinator or a college coach. At least for this team/roster right now.
I don't understand your surprise on Kubiak. Kubiak and Elway have been friends for over 30 years, going back when they were both rookies on the Broncos. A ton of history there.
I agree with avoiding college coaches. College coaches with limited to no NFL experience have tended to struggle in making the transition.
I'm ok with Fox. After Trestman, the Bears needed a pro back in that locker room. Going young with a young coach sounds exciting, but the NFL is a win now league.
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Bellicheck is 11-5 in games without Brady...McCarthy is something like 3-5-1 in games without Rodgers.
OK, so McCarthy isn't as good as probably the best NFL coach of the last 15 years. No kidding.
But McCarthy is a very good coach. With all the coaching dysfunction in the NFL, Green Bay keeps plugging along just fine. And he deserves a great deal of credit for what Rodgers has become as well.
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I don't understand your surprise on Kubiak. Kubiak and Elway have been friends for over 30 years, going back when they were both rookies on the Broncos. A ton of history there.
I agree with avoiding college coaches. College coaches with limited to no NFL experience have tended to struggle in making the transition.
I'm ok with Fox. After Trestman, the Bears needed a pro back in that locker room. Going young with a young coach sounds exciting, but the NFL is a win now league.
Mostly because Kubiak said he wanted to stay in Baltimore and would be turning down all interviews. Now, he's changing his stance. That's all. I'm not thinking any conspiracy theories or anything. Guess I shouldn't buy-in to what people say publicly.
Agree on the "pro in the locker room." I think/hope that the Bears are taking a Cubs stance right now. Build young, stock talent, take your time and do it well so that we can have long-term success even if we're hovering around .500 for 1-3 years. Improvement and acquiring young talent should be the priorities.
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I like Green Bay and New England this weekend.
Packers getting +8.5 seems crazy to me. I like them straight up. Having played the Hawks in Seattle this season already makes a big difference in my eyes. Packers are better now than in week one, I don't think Seattle is better than they were that week.
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I just can't see the Packers winning it this weekend. Just not a good matchup for the Packers. I can already see Russell Wilson burning us with both the play action fake and the zone read. Lynch will also put up solid if not spectacular numbers. And that defense is playing so well right now. With a healthy Rodgers I think the Packers lose by 6-10. With Rodgers as is I think it's a 10-14 point Seahawks win. I hope I'm wrong. The Packers are certainly better when fully healthy than they were in week 1 (and 2-4), but the Seahawks are back to playing like they were in week 1.
I'll take the Patriots in the AFC, but I think that will be a really good game. If the Colts weren't so one dimensional I'd take them. Patriots are good but, in my opinion, not as good as their Super Bowl teams were.
That's why I'd take the Seahawks by a touchdown in the Super Bowl.
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For anyone in Indy, please go down to the canal on Monday, and when they dump the blue dye in, throw a bucket of yellow dye in, too.
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I like Green Bay and New England this weekend.
Packers getting +8.5 seems crazy to me. I like them straight up. Having played the Hawks in Seattle this season already makes a big difference in my eyes. Packers are better now than in week one, I don't think Seattle is better than they were that week.
I think Seattle is rolling. Green Bay was very beatable last week, Cowboys made some really dumb mistakes. Green Bay has not been a good road team all year. Seattle to win.
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When Rodgers went down, the backups were Seneca freaking Wallace and matt tolzein before they finally picked up an injured Flynn. Vince Lombardi couldn't win with that. It's not as simple as just looking at record. McCarthey kept that team together last year. He is easily a top 3 to 5 coach in the league. Any packer fan that says otherwise is either spoiled or not paying attention.
I guess I'm missing something in your analysis.
Rodgers went down, and when he went down here is what the Packers did
Lost to Chicago
Lost to Philadelphia
Lost to NY Giants
Tied Minnesota
Lost to Detroit
Beat Atlanta 22-21 (edit: score fixed)
Beat Dallas 37-36 in arguably one of the worst choke jobs in NFL history by Dallas
Lost to Pittsburgh
2-5-1 is holding it together?
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I guess I'm missing something in your analysis.
Rodgers went down, and when he went down here is what the Packers did
Lost to Chicago
Lost to Philadelphia
Lost to NY Giants
Tied Minnesota
Lost to Detroit
Beat Atlanta 22-1
Beat Dallas 37-36 in arguably one of the worst choke jobs in NFL history by Dallas
Lost to Pittsburgh
2-5-1 is holding it together?
Well they held Atlanta to 1, which is very impressive.
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I think McCarthy's staff is damn good with player development
the JS has an article on the rookie contributions this year
the Packers' fourth-place finish in regular-season snaps from scrimmage played by 2014 draft choices.
One 3-13 team, Jacksonville, led with nine selections playing a total of 4,864 snaps. Another 3-13 team, Oakland, was next with 4,121 by eight picks.
Buffalo (9-7) was next with 3,429 snaps from five picks, followed by Green Bay with 3,225 by five choices. Last season, when the Packers dealt with extensive injuries, their draft choices played 3,252.
The 11 other playoff teams averaged 1,747 snaps by draft picks.
Seattle, the Packers' opponent Sunday in the NFC Championship Game, ranked 18th in draft choice snaps (1,877) and tied for 13th in starts (28).
Green Bay had at least one player selected to the all-rookie team for the sixth straight year. In 19 years before that, the Packers were shut out 11 times.
Linsley played all 1,050 snaps, the only Green Bay player on offense or defense to play every down.
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Well they held Atlanta to 1, which is very impressive.
:). Well done
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I guess I'm missing something in your analysis.
Rodgers went down, and when he went down here is what the Packers did
Lost to Chicago
Lost to Philadelphia
Lost to NY Giants
Tied Minnesota
Lost to Detroit
Beat Atlanta 22-1
Beat Dallas 37-36 in arguably one of the worst choke jobs in NFL history by Dallas
Lost to Pittsburgh
2-5-1 is holding it together?
Anyone can go back and quote numbers. I follow the team very closely. They could have packed it in after losing their qb and losing 4 out of 5. The team kept competeing, had focus and were not down on each other. Every year under McCarthey they have had some adversity. They had over 10 starters on injured reserve the year they won the super bowl. Thats on the coaches for keeping it together and developing players.
As far as last year. Their backup qb's sucked and their defense was horrible, yet they kept competing. Thats holding it together under adversity.
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I think Seattle is rolling. Green Bay was very beatable last week, Cowboys made some really dumb mistakes. Green Bay has not been a good road team all year. Seattle to win.
Dallas was on a roll coming into Green Bay. Both teams made mistakes, going back and saying we should have won by 20 if we would have done this or that is losers mentality.
The media is buying into the Seattle hype. They are a confident bunch (overconfident) as are their fans. The fact of the matter is they went on a roll against crap quarterbacks and declining teams.
This is a different packer team than the last 2 times they played seattle. The first game of the season they had a rookie center playing in his first pro game against the super bowl champs and lost bulaga, (the right tackle) in the 3rd quater. Bulagas replacement gave up 2 devestating sacks, that killed a potential scoring drive and one that caused a safety and subsequent seattle touchdown. That game was a lot closer than the score may indicate. I am not sure who wins sunday, but I am predicting a clsoe game.
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Anyone can go back and quote numbers. I follow the team very closely. They could have packed it in after losing their qb and losing 4 out of 5. The team kept competeing, had focus and were not down on each other. Every year under McCarthey they have had some adversity. They had over 10 starters on injured reserve the year they won the super bowl. Thats on the coaches for keeping it together and developing players.
As far as last year. Their backup qb's sucked and their defense was horrible, yet they kept competing. Thats holding it together under adversity.
Ok....sure looked to me that they got manhandled in most of those games and Dallas gifted them one. If that is holdin it together, to each their own.
Every year every team has adversity, that is life.
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Dallas was on a roll coming into Green Bay. Both teams made mistakes, going back and saying we should have won by 20 if we would have done this or that is losers mentality.
The media is buying into the Seattle hype. They are a confident bunch (overconfident) as are their fans. The fact of the matter is they went on a roll against crap quarterbacks and declining teams.
This is a different packer team than the last 2 times they played seattle. The first game of the season they had a rookie center playing in his first pro game against the super bowl champs and lost bulaga, (the right tackle) in the 3rd quater. Bulagas replacement gave up 2 devestating sacks, that killed a potential scoring drive and one that caused a safety and subsequent seattle touchdown. That game was a lot closer than the score may indicate. I am not sure who wins sunday, but I am predicting a clsoe game.
Interesting, I keep looking for where I said Dallas would have won by 20. Can't seem to find it.
Dallas blew it in two areas...the end of the first half clock management was a disgrace. 40 seconds left, Dallas has ball and it is 3rd and 1.....they go empty set. You run that ball every time. If you don't make it, you force GZb to use a TO. If you do make it, which is likely, new set of downs and you have multiple chances at TD and Closer FG. Instead they throw incompletion, clock stops, no timeout burned, penalty pushes FG back further, misses, gives GB ball with 34 seconds left. Instead of being up 17-7 or 21-7, you go in at half 14-10. Very poor mistake.
Of course the fumble in the second half was a huge mistake.
No one said win by 20, the comment was Dallas had the chance to win multiple times but made key mistakes, which they did. Winning on the road in the playoffs is tough, against a team with a bye even tougher, you can't make mistakes. Yes, GB made mistakes, too. All teams do. That's sports.
I still like Seattle tomorrow, for the reasons I explained.
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Every year every team has adversity, that is life.
True
Some handle it better than others
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And that defense is playing so well right now.
Just wondering how you can tell. In the last 14 games, Alex Smith is the 2nd highest ranked QB they have faced (and yes, I looked it up because even I didn't believe it):
Kirk Cousins
Tony Romo
Austin Davis
Cam Newton
Derek carr
Eli Manning
Alex Smith
Drew stanton
Colin Kaepernick
Mark Sanchez
Colin Kaepernick
Ryan Lindley
Shaun Hill
Cam Newton
There are quite a few teams in the league that can go 12-4 facing the names on that magical list.
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Other than the FGs, I'm not sure the 1st
Q half could have gone better for GB
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I loved the Pack all week heading into this game. Seattle wasn't challenged by a good team since Week 6, Packers have been battle tested. Seattle can't overcome double digit deficits against a team like the Pack, not enough weapons on offense.
Meant to write earlier this week that I thought GB's secondary would make/break this game. They were fantastic today.
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Wow
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I think I jinxed this.
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The second half was not McCarthy's finest of halves.
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LOL that was classic
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The second half was not McCarthy's finest of halves.
Worst coached half I've seen in years.
*went into prevent offense way too early
*didn't throw at Sherman even once after he injured his arm
*stayed in prevent offense way too long
*went for the tie instead of taking even one shot at end zone
*called TO way too early before FG attempt
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Not a Packs fan, but that last three minutes was just unreal and one of best comebacks in NFL history.
Hope that Boswitch doesn't death threats, the coverage is making it like he lost the game for them, but Pack couldn't stop them on three straight possessions and a two point conversion.
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Makes this year's Brewers look like the most clutch group of players ever to walk the earth.
McCarthy. So frustrating.
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Rodgers surrounded by mediocrity.
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Rodgers surrounded by mediocrity.
No. Rodgers held back by a mediocre coach. Nothing else is mediocre about the Packers.
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That sucked all around. I hated that game.
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You've got to explain how he was held back by the coach. Didn't call the right play?
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Damn game is 60 minutes, not 58, hey?
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That sucked all around. I hated that game.
Yep. Winner should have to donate the SB game to Detroit for charity's sake.
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Tons of opportunities. Two FG's early was big. Fake punt TD. Two point miracle. Inside kick. Prevent offense.
Seattle also blew some of their opportunities. Football is not decided by one play, but that won't stop some fans and the media from thinking that way.
Definitely a collapse, but it started long ago. Have to take care of those situations where you have teams on the ropes.
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Rodgers surrounded by mediocrity.
Best player in the NFL at any position... had an awful game today himself.
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Utter collapse job by defense. But we have seen this before from Capers.
The last player was Capers' last 4 years rolled up into one play. With the game on the line, bring both safeties to the line of scrimmage. Probably not another DC that would do that.
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End of the first quarter, listening to the game on the radio, two short field goals...I say to my wife that settling for two short field goals is how the Lions traditionally lose games.
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I really can't blame Capers for that.
I blame an overly conservative 5:00 offense, and a special teams that has been crappy all year. Bostick was supposed to let Jordy get that ball.
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I'm pretty certain I'm taking up curling next fall. Or choir. Something to keep me busy most Sundays.
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I really can't blame Capers for that.
I blame an overly conservative 5:00 offense, and a special teams that has been crappy all year. Bostick was supposed to let Jordy get that ball.
No kidding.
Richard Rodgers has a nice day splitting the middle of the field with a few catches. Then when it comes down to crunch time we're running him out wide on a button hook and throwing it to him? Why? What's the point of having Eddie Lacy if you're going to hand it to James Starks when the game is on the line? (I know, Starks broke off 1 big run and had a couple other decent runs, but there's no reason that Lacy isn't the guy we should be handing the ball to when we're trying to manage the clock.) Richard Sherman is playing with literally 1 arm and we don't try to challenge him even once. Earl Thomas is banged up, too, yet not once in the 2nd half do we even look to take a shot at a big play in the passing game. And heck, it didn't affect the outcome of the game, but what in the world is the point in taking an immediate timeout with 19 seconds left? You aren't getting the ball back regardless of whether Crosby makes or misses his field goal. It's either make it and go to overtime or miss it and they're in the victory formation. If I'm sitting there wondering what's the point, there's a problem.
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No kidding.
Richard Rodgers has a nice day splitting the middle of the field with a few catches. Then when it comes down to crunch time we're running him out wide on a button hook and throwing it to him? Why? What's the point of having Eddie Lacy if you're going to hand it to James Starks when the game is on the line? (I know, Starks broke off 1 big run and had a couple other decent runs, but there's no reason that Lacy isn't the guy we should be handing the ball to when we're trying to manage the clock.) Richard Sherman is playing with literally 1 arm and we don't try to challenge him even once. Earl Thomas is banged up, too, yet not once in the 2nd half do we even look to take a shot at a big play in the passing game. And heck, it didn't affect the outcome of the game, but what in the world is the point in taking an immediate timeout with 19 seconds left? You aren't getting the ball back regardless of whether Crosby makes or misses his field goal. It's either make it and go to overtime or miss it and they're in the victory formation. If I'm sitting there wondering what's the point, there's a problem.
Paragraphs, please.
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No kidding.
Richard Rodgers has a nice day splitting the middle of the field with a few catches. Then when it comes down to crunch time we're running him out wide on a button hook and throwing it to him? Why? What's the point of having Eddie Lacy if you're going to hand it to James Starks when the game is on the line? (I know, Starks broke off 1 big run and had a couple other decent runs, but there's no reason that Lacy isn't the guy we should be handing the ball to when we're trying to manage the clock.) Richard Sherman is playing with literally 1 arm and we don't try to challenge him even once. Earl Thomas is banged up, too, yet not once in the 2nd half do we even look to take a shot at a big play in the passing game. And heck, it didn't affect the outcome of the game, but what in the world is the point in taking an immediate timeout with 19 seconds left? You aren't getting the ball back regardless of whether Crosby makes or misses his field goal. It's either make it and go to overtime or miss it and they're in the victory formation. If I'm sitting there wondering what's the point, there's a problem.
According to twitter, and I think Buck/Aikman, Lacy took himself out of the game. Not sure why.
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Paragraphs, please.
There's no real paragraphs to be made, but I'll break it down to individual thoughts for you.
Richard Rodgers has a nice day splitting the middle of the field with a few catches. Then when it comes down to crunch time we're running him out wide on a button hook and throwing it to him? Why?
What's the point of having Eddie Lacy if you're going to hand it to James Starks when the game is on the line? (I know, Starks broke off 1 big run and had a couple other decent runs, but there's no reason that Lacy isn't the guy we should be handing the ball to when we're trying to manage the clock.)
Richard Sherman is playing with literally 1 arm and we don't try to challenge him even once. Earl Thomas is banged up, too, yet not once in the 2nd half do we even look to take a shot at a big play in the passing game.
And heck, it didn't affect the outcome of the game, but what in the world is the point in taking an immediate timeout with 19 seconds left? You aren't getting the ball back regardless of whether Crosby makes or misses his field goal. It's either make it and go to overtime or miss it and they're in the victory formation. If I'm sitting there wondering what's the point, there's a problem.
According to twitter, and I think Buck/Aikman, Lacy took himself out of the game. Not sure why.
I saw him check himself out of the game in like the 3rd quarter, but I thought I heard Buck say that Aaron Andrews reported to them that Lacy is healthy just a coach's decision to start with Starks in there following Seattle's last punt.
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When u can't win a game when they give u 5 to's....
Anyway, NE vs Seattle should actually be a great Super Bowl, assuming Seattle isn't signing balls away again.
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Up 12 with under 5 minutes to play; then giving up 3 TDs in about 5-6 minutes?
Sounds like the definition of a defensive collapse to me. And other than the game winner, there was no coverage on any receiver. There were running loose in the secondary.
Defense gave up 207 yards in 8 minutes; that is Webster's definition of a total defensive collapse.
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Up 12 with under 5 minutes to play; then giving up 3 TDs in about 5-6 minutes?
Sounds like the definition of a defensive collapse to me. And other than the game winner, there was no coverage on any receiver. There were running loose in the secondary.
Defense gave up 207 yards in 8 minutes; that is Webster's definition of a total defensive collapse.
And would've never had the opportunity to give up 145 of those yards had we simply executed an onside kick recovery.
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Up 12 with under 5 minutes to play; then giving up 3 TDs in about 5-6 minutes?
Sounds like the definition of a defensive collapse to me. And other than the game winner, there was no coverage on any receiver. There were running loose in the secondary.
Defense gave up 207 yards in 8 minutes; that is Webster's definition of a total defensive collapse.
Not inaccurate. Though, none of that yardage or TDs should have mattered. Offense was not good in the second half.
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I don't necessarily mind taking the two field goals early, but you have to put your foot on the pedal in the third quarter then. Their third quarter drives resulted in no points. That's when you have to really deliver the knockout blow. Possessions become a premium towards the back end of the third.
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That was a collapse of Bear-ian proportions!
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McCarthy. So frustrating.
It's ok. He'll hold the team together.
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That was a collapse of Bear-ian proportions!
Actually no, Chicago never would have had a lead in the game to lose.
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Some coaches on D have to go, they basically thought they had the game locked up with 4 minutes to go. The onside
kick and the 2 point conversion was high school football, and the play calling in fourth quarter was terrible. Lots of blame
to go around. What a letdown.
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Go for both 4th downs in the first quarter on the goal line. Make 1 of them. Win in regulation.
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With 5:07 left in the game, Seattle had a 4.2% chance of winning the game.
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True
Some handle it better than others
This might be the quote of the day considering today....
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With 5:07 left in the game, Seattle had a 4.2% chance of winning the game.
I'm trying not to think too much about it but I'm hard pressed to come up with a bigger loss in Packers history. And I go all the way back to the Glory Years. Plenty of blame to go around.
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I'm trying not to think too much about it but I'm hard pressed to come up with a bigger loss in Packers history. And I go all the way back to the Glory Years. Plenty of blame to go around.
I frankly can't come up with a more heartbreaking loss in my sports history. Good thing I usually let these things slide off my back.
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I really can't blame Capers for that.
I blame an overly conservative 5:00 offense, and a special teams that has been crappy all year. Bostick was supposed to let Jordy get that ball.
Yup....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7rBVDHIYAA2Zig.jpg)
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This might be the quote of the day considering today....
Do you have to constantly show what kind of a douche bag and ass hat you are.
McCarthey absolutely made mistakes, but I didn't see him out there trying to field an onside kick, or break up a 2 point conversion, or slide down with 5 minutes to go on an interception. I am guessing there are a lot of fans of other teams that would trade places with mcCartheys record.
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I frankly can't come up with a more heartbreaking loss in my sports history.
Me neither. I usually can let these things go after a short amount of time, but this one has really stuck with me.
SF in '98, 4th and 26, NYG in '08. All were really tough, but this was the worst. The only one I can think of that comes close is MU-Stanford.
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Yup....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7rBVDHIYAA2Zig.jpg)
Yep. He even admitted as such. I have no doubt that Jordy makes that play.
Oh well.
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Me neither. I usually can let these things go after a short amount of time, but this one has really stuck with me.
SF in '98, 4th and 26, NYG in '08. All were really tough, but this was the worst. The only one I can think of that comes close is MU-Stanford.
I'll give you a reverse analogy. MU-Davidson. It's that shocking.
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I'll give you a reverse analogy. MU-Davidson. It's that shocking.
Spot on.
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I wonder if this will give Thompson reason to make a few changes? I'm thinking not so much players although some will be gone but a coach or two. The most obvious choice would be Slocum.
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I frankly can't come up with a more heartbreaking loss in my sports history.
I was at the MU-Miami game in the '78 NCAA tournament. This probably comes in second.
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I wonder if this will give Thompson reason to make a few changes? I'm thinking not so much players although some will be gone but a coach or two. The most obvious choice would be Slocum.
The two biggest plays of the game were special team screw-ups.
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I wonder if this will give Thompson reason to make a few changes? I'm thinking not so much players although some will be gone but a coach or two. The most obvious choice would be Slocum.
Slocum should go. Capers did enough after the bye week to save his job, though I hated only rushing two on 3rd and 19.
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The two biggest plays of the game were special team screw-ups.
In hindsight, the two point conversion was up there too. Should have been a stop with a chance to go down and win.
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Go for both 4th downs in the first quarter on the goal line. Make 1 of them. Win in regulation.
Bingo.
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Hey, good try guys.
Next year you probably won't need to worry about losing in the playoffs.
SKOL VIKINGS!
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I'm trying not to think too much about it but I'm hard pressed to come up with a bigger loss in Packers history. And I go all the way back to the Glory Years. Plenty of blame to go around.
A bit of consoling of my son this afternoon, that's for sure. He's a diehard Packers fan. He's still a bit in disbelief. We had a good philosophical discussion. When you area sports fan, unfortunately there are some days that your heart gets ripped out of you, probably happens more than feelings of euphoria. Depends how hard you take the losses. Of course the farther you go, the more it hurts.
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Do you have to constantly show what kind of a douche bag and ass hat you are.
McCarthey absolutely made mistakes, but I didn't see him out there trying to field an onside kick, or break up a 2 point conversion, or slide down with 5 minutes to go on an interception. I am guessing there are a lot of fans of other teams that would trade places with mcCartheys record.
Hairy, I don't think I said anything worse than what Army did before I even posted anything, but whatever.
Yes, I would think many teams would take McCarthy. I happen to like him. That being said, there are many Packers fans that believe they are leaving championships on the table. Hard to say. I suspect the below article from tonight is how many of those guys feel. It's tough being a coach under the microscope of the playoffs.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/18/7777479/seahawks-packers-mike-mccarthy
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Hey, good try guys.
Next year you probably won't need to worry about losing in the playoffs.
SKOL VIKINGS!
No doubt an improving team but let's not go too far there.
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I realize that everyone is focusing on the gaffes in the last 5 minutes of the game, but 6 points off of 5 turnovers? It's tough for many to admit but St. Aaron deserves some blame for that debacle too.
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Hairy, I don't think I said anything worse than what Army did before I even posted anything, but whatever.
Yes, I would think many teams would take McCarthy. I happen to like him. That being said, there are many Packers fans that believe they are leaving championships on the table. Hard to say. I suspect the below article from tonight is how many of those guys feel. It's tough being a coach under the microscope of the playoffs.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/18/7777479/seahawks-packers-mike-mccarthy
I would expect stupid comments from MUArmy, you at least make a reasonable argument.
There’s plenty of blame to go around here, but McCarthy didn’t lose them this game. Running the ball with 5 minutes to go was the correct call. Had they passed, and it stopped the clock or they got an interception everyone would have grilled McCarthy for that. Players need to make plays. If they make 1 or 2 plays in that last 5 minutes, the Packers win going away and everyone is talking about what a hell of job McCarthy did winning on the road as an underdog.
The Packers will be back. They are a young ascending team and have cap space. It’s tough to get that far though, everything has to go right.
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Also Aaron Rodgers did not have a very good game. He missed Jordy in the end zone on one of those early drives where they settled for a FG. He also underthrew Starks down the sideline when he had a step on the linebacker. And of course there was in the INT on the first drive, which was erased by HHCD's, but still...
Really it comes down to not getting first downs on back to back drives with less then seven minutes to go in the game. Even one first down there and the game is likely over. And then of course the on side kick.
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Slocum should go.
Yes. Here is what I don't understand about the fake FG. The Packer's clearly went for the block, which IMO is nonsensical considering that Carroll likes rolling the dice and that it was a relatively short FG. Furthermore holding them to a FG at that point is a defensive "win" IMO. They still would have a 13 point lead. The smart thing would have been to play it safe there.
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Ron Wolf for President
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I would expect stupid comments from MUArmy, you at least make a reasonable argument.
There’s plenty of blame to go around here, but McCarthy didn’t lose them this game. Running the ball with 5 minutes to go was the correct call. Had they passed, and it stopped the clock or they got an interception everyone would have grilled McCarthy for that. Players need to make plays. If they make 1 or 2 plays in that last 5 minutes, the Packers win going away and everyone is talking about what a hell of job McCarthy did winning on the road as an underdog.
The Packers will be back. They are a young ascending team and have cap space. It’s tough to get that far though, everything has to go right.
To be honest, the Packers would've won IN SPITE of Mike McCarthy. What did his offense do? They used the defense's 5 created turnovers and turned them into 6 points. They were set up with great field position all game and couldn't stick the ball in the end zone with multiple great opportunities. McCarthy did not call a good game at all, yet the Packers were still on the cusp of going to the Super Bowl. You are right, there were about 20 things the Packers had to do to screw that game up...and unfortunately they did. Mike McCarthy was not the reason they were in the position to win that game though.
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Me neither. I usually can let these things go after a short amount of time, but this one has really stuck with me.
SF in '98, 4th and 26, NYG in '08. All were really tough, but this was the worst. The only one I can think of that comes close is MU-Stanford.
MU-Stanford was one of the toughest for me.... for sure my toughest MU game, without a doubt.
Being a Chicago fan, obviously 2003 was the biggest sports disappoint.... also being a Chicago fan, yesterday was not a disappointment at all. I did feel a little sympathy for all my Packer fan friends though. Tiny bit.
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By the way, my biggest pet peeve with the Packers offense is on their 3rd (and 4th) and a yard situations. They either go empty backfield (okay, they're not running the ball) or they bring in an extra lineman with 2 tight ends and Kuhn (okay, they're only running the ball). Why not at least make the defense consider both options? Split Cobb and Jordy out wide, have 2 tight ends in the game, and have Lacy in the backfield. Give Rodgers an option to see the defense and check into a quick slant or run the ball. I would prefer in those situations to take 3 defenders off of the line with the threat of the pass and then give it to Lacy. Having 11 defenders key on the run isn't going to be overly successful.
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To be honest, the Packers would've won IN SPITE of Mike McCarthy. What did his offense do? They used the defense's 5 created turnovers and turned them into 6 points. They were set up with great field position all game and couldn't stick the ball in the end zone with multiple great opportunities. McCarthy did not call a good game at all, yet the Packers were still on the cusp of going to the Super Bowl. You are right, there were about 20 things the Packers had to do to screw that game up...and unfortunately they did. Mike McCarthy was not the reason they were in the position to win that game though.
So it's McCathy's offense when they play poorly but Rodgers' offense when they play well?
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So it's McCathy's offense when they play poorly but Rodgers' offense when they play well?
Who said that?
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Who said that?
No one said it specifically, but I inferred it from your comments. I guess I'm just curious why you blame McCarthy but fail to even mention that Rodgers put up a dud of a game.
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No one said it specifically, but I inferred it from your comments. I guess I'm just curious why you blame McCarthy but fail to even mention that Rodgers put up a dud of a game.
Okay. Rodgers wasn't himself. He missed Jordy in the end zone and threw high on Cobb. He also threw a ball he shouldn't have to Cobb, who ran a different rout than Rodgers expected, and he hesitated just enough to let Sherman make a great play on the ball in the first quarter. He certainly wasn't great. But he also certainly wasn't the reason we didn't win the game. 1st and goal at the 9, run Lacy to the 1. 2nd and goal at the 1, run Kuhn for nothing. 3rd and goal at the 1, run Lacy for nothing. That's not on Rodgers. 1st 10 late in the game up 12, run Lacy for -2, 2nd and 12 run Lacy for -3. 3rd and 15 (at this point, you run the ball...you're simply not picking up the first down there, so keep the clock ticking and force them to use timeouts), incomplete pass, clock stops. Again, we aren't picking up 15 there, so hard to put that on Rodgers. 1st and 10 even later up 12, run, 2nd and 8, run, 3rd and 6, split Quarless out wide, Rodgers puts it on his numbers, it gets broken up. I'm not going to fault Rodgers for that, not sure what Quarless is doing out there.
Rodgers played sub par for himself. We were also facing a defense that is one of the best ever assembled, so I wouldn't expect 400 yards and 4 TDs. What I would expect is for our coach to not take the air out of the ball for the last 25 minutes of the game offensively. When you're up 16 points in the 3rd quarter the game is not over, and McCarthy coached the game like we simply had to run the clock out. He stopped coaching to win and coached not to lose. Heck, the most knowledgeable football person on Scoop is a Bears fan and even he said it was painful to watch McCarthy's playcalling.
It's certainly not all on McCarthy. But he definitely didn't help the cause.
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We were also facing a defense that is one of the best ever assembled, so I wouldn't expect 400 yards and 4 TDs. What I would expect is for our coach to not take the air out of the ball for the last 25 minutes of the game offensively.
Point #1 has something to do with point #2.
While I agree, McCarthy wasn't exactly calling a bunch of exotic plays, Seattle also was able to lock them down. They are good at football, and they are at home.
And, for as bad as the first half was for Seattle, Seattle's defense did a relatively good job given the position they were in. It's not like they were giving up 90 yard drives.
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Okay. Rodgers wasn't himself. He missed Jordy in the end zone and threw high on Cobb. He also threw a ball he shouldn't have to Cobb, who ran a different rout than Rodgers expected, and he hesitated just enough to let Sherman make a great play on the ball in the first quarter. He certainly wasn't great. But he also certainly wasn't the reason we didn't win the game. 1st and goal at the 9, run Lacy to the 1. 2nd and goal at the 1, run Kuhn for nothing. 3rd and goal at the 1, run Lacy for nothing. That's not on Rodgers. 1st 10 late in the game up 12, run Lacy for -2, 2nd and 12 run Lacy for -3. 3rd and 15 (at this point, you run the ball...you're simply not picking up the first down there, so keep the clock ticking and force them to use timeouts), incomplete pass, clock stops. Again, we aren't picking up 15 there, so hard to put that on Rodgers. 1st and 10 even later up 12, run, 2nd and 8, run, 3rd and 6, split Quarless out wide, Rodgers puts it on his numbers, it gets broken up. I'm not going to fault Rodgers for that, not sure what Quarless is doing out there.
Rodgers played sub par for himself. We were also facing a defense that is one of the best ever assembled, so I wouldn't expect 400 yards and 4 TDs. What I would expect is for our coach to not take the air out of the ball for the last 25 minutes of the game offensively. When you're up 16 points in the 3rd quarter the game is not over, and McCarthy coached the game like we simply had to run the clock out. He stopped coaching to win and coached not to lose. Heck, the most knowledgeable football person on Scoop is a Bears fan and even he said it was painful to watch McCarthy's playcalling.
It's certainly not all on McCarthy. But he definitely didn't help the cause.
The psychology of sports fans fascinates me. We can spin situations to fit what we want to believe. Not singling you out. I'm guilty of it too. That said...
Rodgers "hesitated just enough to let Sherman make a great play on the ball in the first quarter" or was it that the pass was simply late and underthrown?
"Rodgers played sub par for himself" or did he simply play poorly, especially in a conference championship game?
"at this point, you run the ball......so keep the clock ticking and force them to use timeouts), incomplete pass, clock stops" or did Rodgers force a pass to a well-covered receiver which stopped the clock? Also, you had that switched around - GB ran the ball on 3rd and 16 but threw it to Quarless on 3rd and 4.
"We were also facing a defense that is one of the best ever assembled, so I wouldn't expect 400 yards and 4 TDs." But wouldn't you expect better than 178 yards, 1 TD, 2 picks and a mere 6 points off of 5 TOs?
Interesting Stat of the Game: Rodgers' QB Rating of 55.8 was the exact same QB Rating that Jay Cutler had against NO...just before being benched.
(Not comparing Cutler to Rodgers or even saying QB Rating is a solid stat for comparison, etc, etc. Just found that interesting.)
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The psychology of sports fans fascinates me. We can spin situations to fit what we want to believe. Not singling you out. I'm guilty of it too. That said...
Rodgers "hesitated just enough to let Sherman make a great play on the ball in the first quarter" or was it that the pass was simply late and underthrown?
"Rodgers played sub par for himself" or did he simply play poorly, especially in a conference championship game?
"at this point, you run the ball......so keep the clock ticking and force them to use timeouts), incomplete pass, clock stops" or did Rodgers force a pass to a well-covered receiver which stopped the clock? Also, you had that switched around - GB ran the ball on 3rd and 16 but threw it to Quarless on 3rd and 4.
"We were also facing a defense that is one of the best ever assembled, so I wouldn't expect 400 yards and 4 TDs." But wouldn't you expect better than 178 yards, 1 TD, 2 picks and a mere 6 points off of 5 TOs?
Interesting Stat of the Game: Rodgers' QB Rating of 55.8 was the exact same QB Rating that Jay Cutler had against NO...just before being benched.
(Not comparing Cutler to Rodgers or even saying QB Rating is a solid stat for comparison, etc, etc. Just found that interesting.)
By "hesitating just enough," I meant exactly what you said, it was thrown too late and it allowed Sherman to make a great play. I didn't think Rodgers played awful, but he obviously didn't take the game over either. He missed some throws he typically makes. I would've expected a better performance from him, and I would've expected McCarthy to call a better game. Maybe if Rodgers comes out hot McCarthy calls it differently. Maybe if McCarthy calls it differently Rodgers gets hot. Who knows? Rodgers did not go out and win us the game like he is capable, but I did not feel as though Rodgers was someone who greatly contributed to the loss, while I thought McCarthy's playcalling and tentative playcalling for the last 25 minutes of the game greatly contributed to the loss.
And by the way, you're comparing a QB rating of a terrible defense (Saints) to what some people are trying to argue is the best defense ever assembled (I don't buy that, but I do think they deserve much of the praise they get, they are as good of a defense as I can remember since at least the Ravens of the early-mid 2000s).
Fact of the matter is the Packers had to royally screw up about 10-15 things over the last 8 minutes of the game to lose it, and they did. There is a lot of blame to go around, and not 1 person/play lost the game for the Packers. The Packers (offense, defense, special teams) put it into cruise control way too early and paid big time for it. They had a chance to grab this decade and put its mark on it, but instead it was one of the biggest choke jobs I can ever think of.
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Hey, good try guys.
Next year you probably won't need to worry about losing in the playoffs.
SKOL VIKINGS!
The Queens may actually be less irrelevant than the Bears next year.
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Hey, good try guys.
Next year you probably won't need to worry about losing in the playoffs.
SKOL VIKINGS!
I live in MN so I hear that every year. Pretty amusing.
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I don't know if we'll ever know this, but one thing I'm curious about is if someone radio'd into Rodgers that Sherman was down to one arm late in the game.
One play I would like to have seen them try (given this injury info) was some type of jet sweep with Cobb, right at Sherman's side. Get Nelson isolated on Sherman, force him to use both arms to get out of the block and come up and try to make a tackle. I don't believe Sherman was really forced to do too much of anything after he got injured. The Packer late FG drive, I believe all those pass plays were either up the middle or semi quick outs to the left side of the field (away from Sherman).
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I don't know if we'll ever know this, but one thing I'm curious about is if someone radio'd into Rodgers that Sherman was down to one arm late in the game.
One play I would like to have seen them try (given this injury info) was some type of jet sweep with Cobb, right at Sherman's side. Get Nelson isolated on Sherman, force him to use both arms to get out of the block and come up and try to make a tackle. I don't believe Sherman was really forced to do too much of anything after he got injured. The Packer late FG drive, I believe all those pass plays were either up the middle or semi quick outs to the left side of the field (away from Sherman).
That's a good idea. I don't know if throwing at Sherman was the answer because he likely could have still enured the pain of reaching or defending a pass. (adrenaline + a quick reaction/reach)
But, taking on a blocker, shedding a block, and then tackling probably would have been difficult. The one tackle he did make, he came up grabbing at his arm again, so it likely caused him a lot of pain.
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That's a good idea. I don't know if throwing at Sherman was the answer because he likely could have still enured the pain of reaching or defending a pass. (adrenaline + a quick reaction/reach)
But, taking on a blocker, shedding a block, and then tackling probably would have been difficult. The one tackle he did make, he came up grabbing at his arm again, so it likely caused him a lot of pain.
My question is if he can get beat. I didn't really get a chance to see, but the way he was lining up with his hand pulled tight to his chest it looked like he was avoiding moving it at all. If that's the case and he wasn't using 1 of his arms to swing in order to run, that significantly slows him down. Plus he can't really effectively press a receiver with one hand.
By the way, Sherman playing through that and Earl Thomas playing through whatever should injury he had is exactly what allowed the Seahawks to make that comeback (or more accurately, is why the Packers choked that game away). Sherman is literally playing with one arm and Thomas is playing with what looked like a pretty painful shoulder injury, and when the game is on the line there's Lacy and Matthews on the sidelines with what I would assume are a bruised knee and a tight hammy, respectively. No killer instinct.
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I don't know if we'll ever know this, but one thing I'm curious about is if someone radio'd into Rodgers that Sherman was down to one arm late in the game.
One play I would like to have seen them try (given this injury info) was some type of jet sweep with Cobb, right at Sherman's side. Get Nelson isolated on Sherman, force him to use both arms to get out of the block and come up and try to make a tackle. I don't believe Sherman was really forced to do too much of anything after he got injured. The Packer late FG drive, I believe all those pass plays were either up the middle or semi quick outs to the left side of the field (away from Sherman).
In retrospect, on that 2nd and 14 after the Burnett pick, where the Seahawks, the stadium and everyone watching expected run, it would've been interesting to see an inside slant on Sherman, who would not have been able to knock the receiver off his route. But in the vast universe of shoulda-coulda-woulda's in that game, it rates fairly low.
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My thoughts:
1) I really hate to blame one guy for a team loss when everyone is out there doing their job and giving it their all; however, I have no qualms calling out the guy who abandoned his job, even if to give it his all. If Bostwick comes down with the ball cleanly, I still would have deactivated him for the next game just to drive home the point - as Wayne Larrivee said this morning - "you do your job and trust that your teammates around you will do theirs". The loss isn't on Bostwick alone... you can win playing on the razor's edge so long as no one screws up, or you can win after screwing up so long as you're not playing on the razor's edge. But it's damn near impossible to win doing both.
2) Unless you have the top 3 DLs in the NFL, don't ever rush three guys... I don't care if it's third and goal from your opponent's 1-yard line. 20 years ago, sure. But QBs and WRs are elite enough these days that even if you could drop all 11 guys back into deep coverage against 5 receivers, given enough time, they will still complete a pass. You need to put pressure on the QB, otherwise, a receiver is eventually going to find a seam and the QB is going to put it right on the money.
3) Do I really have to say #2, especially in the place where you got royally burned just a few short years ago on a hail mary pass (guess how many rushed Wilson on that play).
4) I don't fault Burnett for going down after the INT, and I don't think it would be fair for anyone else to either. He did his job and trusted his teammates to do their job; it just so happened to be the case that one of his teammates dropped the ball (literally).
5) http://www.amfam.com/dreams/ -- Glad to see the dream is living on for most Packer fans, even if they don't even realize it. Instead of donating a few million to a charity or reducing their rates, good ol' Madison-HQ'd American Family Insurance decided to pay the opposing QB to the Packers in the NFC Championship a few million dollars because they knew some suckers would buy their product if they did (or wouldn't care enough to cancel it). I'm taking great pleasure asking all of my die-hard Packer fan family members (who have American Family) how much money they put in Russell Wilson's pockets last year. I encourage my fellow Packer fans to do the same... it will help lift the sorrows.
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I guess my larger point is this...
These are billion dollar business organizations, producing wins/losses in environments where information on the fly is vital. I believe the current coaching structure and in-game communication is way outdated.
I'd argue a head coach is way better off sitting in the press box than on the sideline. NFL sidelines are chaotic, can't see much, too many people around. A head coach should prepare his team as best as possible during a week, develop a game plan with his coordinators, and then on game day, a head coach should be using information quickly to make decisions. Boggles my mind week in and week out how awful certain decisions or lack there of happen each and every week by the same coaches over and over.
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Yes. Here is what I don't understand about the fake FG. The Packer's clearly went for the block, which IMO is nonsensical considering that Carroll likes rolling the dice and that it was a relatively short FG. Furthermore holding them to a FG at that point is a defensive "win" IMO. They still would have a 13 point lead. The smart thing would have been to play it safe there.
They didn't go for the block... Seahwaks had a plan for Brad Jones.
http://deadspin.com/this-is-how-close-the-seahawks-came-to-never-even-start-1680433146?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
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They didn't go for the block... Seahwaks had a plan for Brad Jones.
http://deadspin.com/this-is-how-close-the-seahawks-came-to-never-even-start-1680433146?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
That is incredible
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They didn't go for the block... Seahwaks had a plan for Brad Jones.
http://deadspin.com/this-is-how-close-the-seahawks-came-to-never-even-start-1680433146?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
HA! HAHA! Maniacal laughter! The one time AJ Hawk and Brad Jones share the field is on FG coverage, and they combine to totally ruin everything (Hawk should've still followed that receiver). Poetic.
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I think we all know I'm not the biggest McCarthy fan in the world, although I like to think I give him credit when it's due. Here's what I will say, based on yesterday's game. From the head coach on down to special teams play, this Packers team has been way too soft for way too long. As much as I despise Pete Carroll, he coaches every game and every moment of every game to win the game. He does not lay off the gas pedal or run and hide from a team that might have a good player on the other side of the ball. And, most importantly, he motivates his players and gets the absolute most out of them every game. By far the biggest difference between the Seahawks and the Packers is that while guys like Clay Matthews and Eddie Lacy are on the sidelines when the game is on the line because of (I would assume) a tight hammy and a bruised knee, respectively, guys like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas are playing through things like a broken arm and a separated shoulder. Heck, even the Seahawks to can't stand Carroll (see: Lynch, Marshawn - won't say a word to him) plays like his hair is on fire TO SPITE of Pete Carroll. If that's what it takes to motivate your players, then I hope Mike McCarthy is able to find a way to make them hate him. Can McCarthy force Lacy and Matthews to go out there despite possibly having some dings? No, but does anybody really think that if they played for Pete Carroll all year long that there would be any question as to whether they were finishing that game out, even if it meant shredding the hammy or tearing an ACL?
IF, obviously barring a significant injury to a major contributor, the Packers do not WIN a Super Bowl next year, I do not want Mike McCarthy on the sidelines for the Packers in 2016. IF he cannot motivate his team and get them to play with a chip on their shoulder for the first time since 2010 after a Playoff loss like the one we just had, he will never get a team motivated to play at the highest level. I want 1 of 2 things in a coach, and preferably both. I want a coach who gets his team playing as hard as they can every time they step onto the field, whether they're down 59-0 or up 59-0 or somewhere in between (had to get at least a little bit of humor in there with the score...O-H-I-O). Someone like Pete Carroll who is going to have his team fighting even when they SHOULDN'T have a chance to win the game. And I want a coach who will NOT play scared and will NOT steer away from what has given you success in your time in Green Bay. While McCarthy decided to take the air out of the ball up by 12 points with 25 minutes left to go, a guy like Bill Belichick is saying, "I'm up 35-7 in the rain and I'm going to throw the ball all over the dang field and run the score up on you, I don't care who is on the other side of the ball." Could it come back and bight you in the ass at some point? Certainly. You could be up 12 with 25 minutes left and throw a pick 6. But I'll take my chances playing to win over not playing to lose every day of the week. I want a coach who coaches to win, not one who coaches to hope the clock strikes 0:00 before the other team can catch up.
In years past, McCarthy has done the most with what he's had. There have been some major holes in these Packer teams, and even through the first half of this season there were major holes. AWFUL defenses at times, no running game at times, poor/injured offensive line at times, and even an injured Rodgers and we have consistently won and made the Playoffs. But this loss is not acceptable. And I know this post looks like I'm putting it 100% on McCarthy and it simply isn't that way, but again, if he cannot motivate his team next year to play balls to the wall after this happened, I do not have faith that he ever will.
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McCarthy just signed an extension. He isn't going anywhere.
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Interesting question I heard today...
If Rodgers doesn't win another Super Bowl, how does he compare to Manning, Brady, Brees? (the other great QBs of his era)
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Interesting question I heard today...
If Rodgers doesn't win another Super Bowl, how does he compare to Manning, Brady, Brees? (the other great QBs of his era)
Above Brees and below the other 2.
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Above Brees and below the other 2.
Agree. He probably needs a couple more titles and MVPs to pass the other 2.
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I think we all know I'm not the biggest McCarthy fan in the world, although I like to think I give him credit when it's due. Here's what I will say, based on yesterday's game. From the head coach on down to special teams play, this Packers team has been way too soft for way too long. As much as I despise Pete Carroll, he coaches every game and every moment of every game to win the game. He does not lay off the gas pedal or run and hide from a team that might have a good player on the other side of the ball. And, most importantly, he motivates his players and gets the absolute most out of them every game. By far the biggest difference between the Seahawks and the Packers is that while guys like Clay Matthews and Eddie Lacy are on the sidelines when the game is on the line because of (I would assume) a tight hammy and a bruised knee, respectively, guys like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas are playing through things like a broken arm and a separated shoulder. Heck, even the Seahawks to can't stand Carroll (see: Lynch, Marshawn - won't say a word to him) plays like his hair is on fire TO SPITE of Pete Carroll. If that's what it takes to motivate your players, then I hope Mike McCarthy is able to find a way to make them hate him. Can McCarthy force Lacy and Matthews to go out there despite possibly having some dings? No, but does anybody really think that if they played for Pete Carroll all year long that there would be any question as to whether they were finishing that game out, even if it meant shredding the hammy or tearing an ACL?
IF, obviously barring a significant injury to a major contributor, the Packers do not WIN a Super Bowl next year, I do not want Mike McCarthy on the sidelines for the Packers in 2016. IF he cannot motivate his team and get them to play with a chip on their shoulder for the first time since 2010 after a Playoff loss like the one we just had, he will never get a team motivated to play at the highest level. I want 1 of 2 things in a coach, and preferably both. I want a coach who gets his team playing as hard as they can every time they step onto the field, whether they're down 59-0 or up 59-0 or somewhere in between (had to get at least a little bit of humor in there with the score...O-H-I-O). Someone like Pete Carroll who is going to have his team fighting even when they SHOULDN'T have a chance to win the game. And I want a coach who will NOT play scared and will NOT steer away from what has given you success in your time in Green Bay. While McCarthy decided to take the air out of the ball up by 12 points with 25 minutes left to go, a guy like Bill Belichick is saying, "I'm up 35-7 in the rain and I'm going to throw the ball all over the dang field and run the score up on you, I don't care who is on the other side of the ball." Could it come back and bight you in the ass at some point? Certainly. You could be up 12 with 25 minutes left and throw a pick 6. But I'll take my chances playing to win over not playing to lose every day of the week. I want a coach who coaches to win, not one who coaches to hope the clock strikes 0:00 before the other team can catch up.
In years past, McCarthy has done the most with what he's had. There have been some major holes in these Packer teams, and even through the first half of this season there were major holes. AWFUL defenses at times, no running game at times, poor/injured offensive line at times, and even an injured Rodgers and we have consistently won and made the Playoffs. But this loss is not acceptable. And I know this post looks like I'm putting it 100% on McCarthy and it simply isn't that way, but again, if he cannot motivate his team next year to play balls to the wall after this happened, I do not have faith that he ever will.
All well and good.... but if Bostick carries out his assignment, the Packers are in the super bowl.
They dominated what most considered to be the best team in football for 56 minutes. Then came the biggest defensive collapse in football history + Bostick's miscue.
That is any head coaches job - to make it to the Super Bowl and win.
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All well and good.... but if Bostick carries out his assignment, the Packers are in the super bowl.
They dominated what most considered to be the best team in football for 56 minutes. Then came the biggest defensive collapse in football history + Bostick's miscue.
That is any head coaches job - to make it to the Super Bowl and win.
That's the exact point. He didn't have his team motivated to play and carry out their specific assignments for 60 minutes in the biggest game of the year. Do you think if the situation was reversed and Pete Carroll's team was receiving an onside kick their backup tight end who was assigned to block with Doug Baldwin waiting to catch the ball behind him would somehow forget what his assignment was and go to try to catch the ball? What about Bill Belichick's backup tight end with Edelman waiting behind him to catch the ball? I would be absolutely, completely, 100% shocked if either of those things happened. And yet, I truly think I would've been more surprised, going into that onside kick, if the Packers had recovered it. It's just what we've done since McCarthy/Slocum have been coaching.
When it comes down to crunch time in the biggest moments since 2010, we aren't prepared. And when they got the onside kick was there ANY doubt whatsoever that the Seahawks were getting it into the end zone? There never was in my mind.
The game is 60 minutes. That includes special teams. Mike took the air out of the ball offensively after 35 minutes and the rest of the team followed that lead. Is there any doubt that if Cam Chancellor or Earl Thomas had picked the ball off with 6 minutes left up 12 they wouldn't have been doing everything in their power to take it back to the house, or at least get as many yards as you can to set up an easy field goal? Why is your safety treating that play like there are 13 seconds left on the clock? Every single Packer player treated that game like it was all done. That, to me, is on the coach. Not mentally prepared to play 60 minutes. Played a great 55 minutes. And choked.
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That's the exact point. He didn't have his team motivated to play and carry out their specific assignments for 60 minutes in the biggest game of the year. Do you think if the situation was reversed and Pete Carroll's team was receiving an onside kick their backup tight end who was assigned to block with Doug Baldwin waiting to catch the ball behind him would somehow forget what his assignment was and go to try to catch the ball? What about Bill Belichick's backup tight end with Edelman waiting behind him to catch the ball? I would be absolutely, completely, 100% shocked if either of those things happened. And yet, I truly think I would've been more surprised, going into that onside kick, if the Packers had recovered it. It's just what we've done since McCarthy/Slocum have been coaching.
When it comes down to crunch time in the biggest moments since 2010, we aren't prepared. And when they got the onside kick was there ANY doubt whatsoever that the Seahawks were getting it into the end zone? There never was in my mind.
The game is 60 minutes. That includes special teams. Mike took the air out of the ball offensively after 35 minutes and the rest of the team followed that lead. Is there any doubt that if Cam Chancellor or Earl Thomas had picked the ball off with 6 minutes left up 12 they wouldn't have been doing everything in their power to take it back to the house, or at least get as many yards as you can to set up an easy field goal? Why is your safety treating that play like there are 13 seconds left on the clock? Every single Packer player treated that game like it was all done. That, to me, is on the coach. Not mentally prepared to play 60 minutes. Played a great 55 minutes. And choked.
Sadly, 100% correct.
And you know who's been more man about it all since the game? Bostick himself. Not MM. That doesn't fly with me.
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Sadly, 100% correct.
And you know who's been more man about it all since the game? Bostick himself. Not MM. That doesn't fly with me.
Absolutely agree. Did he royally mess up? He did. But at least when he does it he takes responsibility for it and doesn't hide. I can respect a person who makes a mistake and stands up to it. I can't stand that every single big game loss we have some giant mental blunders as a team that help lead to it, and every press conference we ever hear is how we have to fix the errors. It never happens and never changes.
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If GB wins that game was Pete Carroll such the perfect coach you painted him as? His QB threw 4 INT's, special teams lost a fumble etc.
GET OVER IT! II'S JUST A GAME!
I think we all know I'm not the biggest McCarthy fan in the world, although I like to think I give him credit when it's due. Here's what I will say, based on yesterday's game. From the head coach on down to special teams play, this Packers team has been way too soft for way too long. As much as I despise Pete Carroll, he coaches every game and every moment of every game to win the game. He does not lay off the gas pedal or run and hide from a team that might have a good player on the other side of the ball. And, most importantly, he motivates his players and gets the absolute most out of them every game. By far the biggest difference between the Seahawks and the Packers is that while guys like Clay Matthews and Eddie Lacy are on the sidelines when the game is on the line because of (I would assume) a tight hammy and a bruised knee, respectively, guys like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas are playing through things like a broken arm and a separated shoulder. Heck, even the Seahawks to can't stand Carroll (see: Lynch, Marshawn - won't say a word to him) plays like his hair is on fire TO SPITE of Pete Carroll. If that's what it takes to motivate your players, then I hope Mike McCarthy is able to find a way to make them hate him. Can McCarthy force Lacy and Matthews to go out there despite possibly having some dings? No, but does anybody really think that if they played for Pete Carroll all year long that there would be any question as to whether they were finishing that game out, even if it meant shredding the hammy or tearing an ACL?
IF, obviously barring a significant injury to a major contributor, the Packers do not WIN a Super Bowl next year, I do not want Mike McCarthy on the sidelines for the Packers in 2016. IF he cannot motivate his team and get them to play with a chip on their shoulder for the first time since 2010 after a Playoff loss like the one we just had, he will never get a team motivated to play at the highest level. I want 1 of 2 things in a coach, and preferably both. I want a coach who gets his team playing as hard as they can every time they step onto the field, whether they're down 59-0 or up 59-0 or somewhere in between (had to get at least a little bit of humor in there with the score...O-H-I-O). Someone like Pete Carroll who is going to have his team fighting even when they SHOULDN'T have a chance to win the game. And I want a coach who will NOT play scared and will NOT steer away from what has given you success in your time in Green Bay. While McCarthy decided to take the air out of the ball up by 12 points with 25 minutes left to go, a guy like Bill Belichick is saying, "I'm up 35-7 in the rain and I'm going to throw the ball all over the dang field and run the score up on you, I don't care who is on the other side of the ball." Could it come back and bight you in the ass at some point? Certainly. You could be up 12 with 25 minutes left and throw a pick 6. But I'll take my chances playing to win over not playing to lose every day of the week. I want a coach who coaches to win, not one who coaches to hope the clock strikes 0:00 before the other team can catch up.
In years past, McCarthy has done the most with what he's had. There have been some major holes in these Packer teams, and even through the first half of this season there were major holes. AWFUL defenses at times, no running game at times, poor/injured offensive line at times, and even an injured Rodgers and we have consistently won and made the Playoffs. But this loss is not acceptable. And I know this post looks like I'm putting it 100% on McCarthy and it simply isn't that way, but again, if he cannot motivate his team next year to play balls to the wall after this happened, I do not have faith that he ever will.
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Absolutely agree. Did he royally mess up? He did. But at least when he does it he takes responsibility for it and doesn't hide. I can respect a person who makes a mistake and stands up to it. I can't stand that every single big game loss we have some giant mental blunders as a team that help lead to it, and every press conference we ever hear is how we have to fix the errors. It never happens and never changes.
All that said I remain a MM supporter. But he and Ted need a private heart to heart on about 4 weeks. Chances don't come along too often.
You know who I want back? Kevin Greene. I'm not suggesting that every coach on the team needs to be a fire breathing motivator. But one or two do. I'm oversimplifying it but you'll recall that Greene 'ordered' Clay to make a play in the Superbowl and 10 seconds later he did. MM has surrounded himself with too many guys like him. And we've paid the price for that.
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All that said I remain a MM supporter. But he and Ted need a private heart to heart on about 4 weeks. Chances don't come along too often.
You know who I want back? Kevin Greene. I'm not suggesting that every coach on the team needs to be a fire breathing motivator. But one or two do. I'm oversimplifying it but you'll recall that Greene 'ordered' Clay to make a play in the Superbowl and 10 seconds later he did. MM has surrounded himself with too many guys like him. And we've paid the price for that.
Yes. I thought when he left the team we'd miss him. He was a very good coach.
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If GB wins that game was Pete Carroll such the perfect coach you painted him as? His QB threw 4 INT's, special teams lost a fumble etc.
GET OVER IT! II'S JUST A GAME!
+1
Bill Belichek botched running out the clock against Baltimore to the point where the Pats had to defend a potential game-winning Hail Mary. Coaches make mistakes. Players make mistakes. Games never go exactly as planned. You need a lot of breaks to go your way to win a championship. Sometimes it's your year, sometimes it's not.
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If GB wins that game was Pete Carroll such the perfect coach you painted him as? His QB threw 4 INT's, special teams lost a fumble etc.
GET OVER IT! II'S JUST A GAME!
Thanks for the opinion.
Yes, Pete Carroll would still be a very good (not perfect) coach if his QB threw 4 INTs, special teams lost a fumble, and they still had a chance to win the game. And the fact that, through all of that, they DID win the game, with 2 Pro Bowl defensive backs playing with 1 arm, just further proves just how good of a coach he is. Good coaches figure out how to overcome adversity. Average coaches figure out how to get a lead and then hope time runs out in time to win.
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All that said I remain a MM supporter. But he and Ted need a private heart to heart on about 4 weeks. Chances don't come along too often.
You know who I want back? Kevin Greene. I'm not suggesting that every coach on the team needs to be a fire breathing motivator. But one or two do. I'm oversimplifying it but you'll recall that Greene 'ordered' Clay to make a play in the Superbowl and 10 seconds later he did. MM has surrounded himself with too many guys like him. And we've paid the price for that.
Except Green Bay's outside linebackers were arguably better this season than in years past. Don't pay too much attention to a line caught on recording during the Super Bowl. You have no idea how many times Greene has said that in the past to players and it had no effect at all. That stuff is a very small percentage of what coaching is about.
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Sadly, 100% correct.
And you know who's been more man about it all since the game? Bostick himself. Not MM. That doesn't fly with me.
What hasn't MM done to be more of a "man?"
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What hasn't MM done to be more of a "man?"
He hasn't taken one ounce of responsibility for the defeat.
Look, I get that it's only a football game and I'm a MM supporter overall. I actually agreed with several of the decisions as he was making them but not all. But Dunne is spot on in this article:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mike-mccarthy-should-get-plenty-of-blame-for-packers-loss-b99429413z1-289103671.html
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He hasn't taken one ounce of responsibility for the defeat.
What do you want him to say? Do you want him to say "we should have thrown more" even though he doesn't agree with it?
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He hasn't taken one ounce of responsibility for the defeat.
Yup. "I wouldn't change anything." Fine, that's fine. But did you LEARN anything? Let's hope he has.
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What do you want him to say? Do you want him to say "we should have thrown more" even though he doesn't agree with it?
See my edited post above.
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I'll say that even I learned something. In retrospect, when you've got the very best player in all of football you find a way to put the game in his hands, if possible. We might have failed to give him enough cracks at the endzone early in the game and we totally took the ball out of his hands in the second half working toward the magical '20 carries'. This isn't Jay Cutler we're talking about. (Tweak to all my Bears friends on here who are secretly enjoying our pain. Just teasing fellas.)
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See, I think Dunne is largely wrong. Everything MM did before the 5:00 mark in the 4th quarter got the Packers in position to win. As Chicos mentioned, statistically they had something like a 96% chance of winning after the Burnett interception.
Here is where I think MM went wrong. After going -4 on first down, he went -2 on second down, and then ran on third down. He should have passed here - at least once.
But if he doesn't think he did anything wrong, what do you want him to say?
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See, I think Dunne is largely wrong. Everything MM did before the 5:00 mark in the 4th quarter got the Packers in position to win. As Chicos mentioned, statistically they had something like a 96% chance of winning after the Burnett interception.
Here is where I think MM went wrong. After going -4 on first down, he went -2 on second down, and then ran on third down. He should have passed here - at least once.
But if he doesn't think he did anything wrong, what do you want him to say?
Your first paragraph is mostly correct. Although you could argue that a touchdown or 2 instead of field goals would have been the kill shot, but its easy to say after the fact. 3 points are better than 0 against their defense.
On third down they were facing 3rd and 16. That's a difficult 3rd down to make and you risk a turn over an probably stop the clock. Hindsight is 20/20, but what McCarthy did was pretty much basic football. You are up two possessions with 5 minutes left. You run clock at that point and it is very unlikely you lose. All the other unlikely plays or non plays after that point lost them the game, not the decision to run the ball.
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Your first paragraph is mostly correct. Although you could argue that a touchdown or 2 instead of field goals would have been the kill shot, but its easy to say after the fact. 3 points are better than 0 against their defense.
On third down they were facing 3rd and 16. That's a difficult 3rd down to make and you risk a turn over an probably stop the clock. Hindsight is 20/20, but what McCarthy did was pretty much basic football. You are up two possessions with 5 minutes left. You run clock at that point and it is very unlikely you lose. All the other unlikely plays or non plays after that point lost them the game, not the decision to run the ball.
I would have passed on second down. When it is 2nd and 14, I would put the ball in the hands of my MVP. Agreed on 3rd and 16 though. The reward of Seattle spending a TO there, or the clock running off another 40 seconds, is way greater than the risk there.
The biggest problem after that is the ease in which Seattle picked up that first TD. They went 70 yards in 1:43 without spending a timeout. The very first play of that drive went 14 yards, which matched their longest play of the day. Then the next one goes 20. Then an incompletion. Then the pass to Lynch for 26 yards.
There is a lot of MMQBing about his decision making. As I said, I would have passed on second down there. But there was also no indication at all that Seattle was going to slice the Packers defense open like that.
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I am blame Burnett for sliding after the INT. Dude had 5 offensive lineman and Russell Wilson in front of him.
I really don't blame him, but again one of those weird things, that happened in the last 5 minutes. He easily had 20 yards of greenery in front of him, which would put him around the 35, then who knows.
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Green Bay's defense had completely stymied Seattle for the first 55 minutes. It was a reasonable assumption that they would be able to keep them from scoring 2 touchdowns in 2 minutes. Milking the clock and playing field position has won a lot of games over the years. It has lost some, too, obviously. MM had a plan. It didn't work.
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I am blame Burnett for sliding after the INT. Dude had 5 offensive lineman and Russell Wilson in front of him.
Julius Peppers was motioning for him to get down.
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Julius Peppers was motioning for him to get down.
Saw that for sure, again, not blaming him or Peppers. You see it all the time, a CB gets aggressive with the INT return, and woooop ball pops out. It was technically the right thing to do. But just this one time, be dumb and aggressive, ignore your teammates and keep running. If he does, they probably win the game.
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130909105555/pacificrim/images/0/09/Homer-Simpson-wingnuts-doh.gif)
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I would have passed on second down. When it is 2nd and 14, I would put the ball in the hands of my MVP. Agreed on 3rd and 16 though. The reward of Seattle spending a TO there, or the clock running off another 40 seconds, is way greater than the risk there.
The biggest problem after that is the ease in which Seattle picked up that first TD. They went 70 yards in 1:43 without spending a timeout. The very first play of that drive went 14 yards, which matched their longest play of the day. Then the next one goes 20. Then an incompletion. Then the pass to Lynch for 26 yards.
There is a lot of MMQBing about his decision making. As I said, I would have passed on second down there. But there was also no indication at all that Seattle was going to slice the Packers defense open like that.
I don't want to nitpick individual plays as a frankly agree with most. But there was a general theme both offensively and defensively. Play the odds. Play to survive and not lose. Never take the 'kill shot'. When we did that, we ended up putting the burden on our 47th man (Bostic) not our 1st and 2nd men, Rodgers/Clay. THAT'S what MM needs to take responsibility for.
Let me mention one sequence in particular. Clay gets a big sack and it's second and 31. I believe it was 3rd down when we rushed 2 plus a spy. They get the first down leading to the fake field goal TD. Funny how we seem to use Blitz Zero and full Prevent at exactly the wrong times. And of course the two special teams blunders ultimately come down to Slocum's coaching. And Slocum reports to MM.
And more to your point about the quick 4th Q touchdown. Perhaps, just perhaps, after Lynch stepped out of bounds and it got reviewed and set at the 9 Mike could have called his first timeout, brought the defense over, and said 'Put a f*cking end to this now, goddammit!' But it's not in his nature. It never will be. So the learning he can do is to add some guys to the coaching staff who do bring that.
I get it. It was a perfect storm. None of us could believe it. Still can't. But if we don't use this to get better it will all be in vain. Oh well, didya see that the Crew traded Yovani?? :)
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Plenty of different opinions on what could have been done in here. That leads me back to not 2nd guessing MM since even among GB fans we don't all have the same ideas of how we would have handled things in hindsight.
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Fangio, eh? Be interesting to see who the OC is. Again, I liked the Fox hire because, if nothing else, he'd bring in great coordinators.
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Fangio, eh? Be interesting to see who the OC is. Again, I liked the Fox hire because, if nothing else, he'd bring in great coordinators.
Fangio is a great hire for the Bears. The Washington team couldn't get the deal done in time.
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I don't want to nitpick individual plays as a frankly agree with most. But there was a general theme both offensively and defensively. Play the odds. Play to survive and not lose. Never take the 'kill shot'. When we did that, we ended up putting the burden on our 47th man (Bostic) not our 1st and 2nd men, Rodgers/Clay. THAT'S what MM needs to take responsibility for.
Let me mention one sequence in particular. Clay gets a big sack and it's second and 31. I believe it was 3rd down when we rushed 2 plus a spy. They get the first down leading to the fake field goal TD. Funny how we seem to use Blitz Zero and full Prevent at exactly the wrong times. And of course the two special teams blunders ultimately come down to Slocum's coaching. And Slocum reports to MM.
And more to your point about the quick 4th Q touchdown. Perhaps, just perhaps, after Lynch stepped out of bounds and it got reviewed and set at the 9 Mike could have called his first timeout, brought the defense over, and said 'Put a f*cking end to this now, goddammit!' But it's not in his nature. It never will be. So the learning he can do is to add some guys to the coaching staff who do bring that.
I get it. It was a perfect storm. None of us could believe it. Still can't. But if we don't use this to get better it will all be in vain. Oh well, didya see that the Crew traded Yovani?? :)
If players can't get motivated to make a stop in the biggest game of their season, no rah-rah pep talk from a coach is going to change that.
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If players can't get motivated to make a stop in the biggest game of their season, no rah-rah pep talk from a coach is going to change that.
You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys? I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went. My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.
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You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys? I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went. My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.
Yes. So much so that they went 3 and out on their first drive.
I think NFL football is way more about adjustments and personnel than it is about "firing people up." Pete Carroll was a great defensive coach (from the booth) back in the day. He is a great defensive coach now because of his scheme and because he has the players to fit that scheme. The Knute Rockne-esque stuff is a very small part of what makes him a good coach.
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Yup. "I wouldn't change anything." Fine, that's fine. But did you LEARN anything? Let's hope he has.
In other words, Bostick most likely won't ever make a similar mistake again, but will MM?
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You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys? I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went. My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.
Well, except they really didn't play better in the second half until the last 5 minutes.
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In other words, Bostick most likely won't ever make a similar mistake again, but will MM?
Exactly. I would be shocked if Bostick ever makes that same mistake again. I would be shocked if McCarthy did not play scared of a team again.
Well, except they really didn't play better in the second half until the last 5 minutes.
Except they did. They didn't put the football on the ground or in the other team's hands. They were outscored 16-0 in the first half and outscored the Packers 22-6 in the second half, 7-3 up until the last 5 minutes. I'd say that's a much better performance than what their first half performance was. Was it an incredible display? No. But was it "[not playing] better in the second half until the last 5 minutes?" Not at all.
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Doug fired them up.
http://youtu.be/1GhBU22Z0js
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You don't think somebody in that Seattle locker room at 16-0 at the half lit a fire under those guys? I doubt they just sat and had a discussion about how things went. My guess is somebody got fired up and it motivated those guys to play better in the 2nd half.
No. I don't.
These are professionals and this is their job. Coaches make adjustments and players execute them. A fired up, motivated team isn't going to win with a poor gameplan.
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No. I don't.
These are professionals and this is their job. Coaches make adjustments and players execute them. A fired up, motivated team isn't going to win with a poor gameplan.
I thought the Seahawks' gameplan was pretty poor and they still won the game. Then again, I thought the Packers' gameplan was pretty poor too, so I guess one of the teams had to win. Seemed to me it was the team who was willing to win for 60 minutes and not 55 won the game.
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I thought the Seahawks' gameplan was pretty poor and they still won the game. Then again, I thought the Packers' gameplan was pretty poor too, so I guess one of the teams had to win. Seemed to me it was the team who was willing to win for 60 minutes and not 55 won the game.
What was bad about the Seahawks' gameplan?
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What was bad about the Seahawks' gameplan?
I was expecting them to come out and run the zone-read quite a bit throughout the game. They did very little of that up until the last 5 minutes, and we saw what kind of success they had with it at that time. I'm not sure why they didn't do a lot more of that earlier in the game. In fact, they did very little in terms of their usual deception (zone-read and also the gimmicky play-action fake type stuff).
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Oof...
https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557632358107852802
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Oof...
https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557632358107852802
That's six if he gets past Wilson.
Twitta Tracka
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 25s25 seconds ago
Ravens hired former Bears HC Marc Trestman as OC, per source.
lol.
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That's six if he gets past Wilson.
It at least gets them into FG range.
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It at least gets them into FG range.
In looking at the photo, and guessing at DB speed vs OL speed. Peppers would need to seal maybe one lineman. I don't think any of the other OL can get an angle on him.
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I was expecting them to come out and run the zone-read quite a bit throughout the game. They did very little of that up until the last 5 minutes, and we saw what kind of success they had with it at that time. I'm not sure why they didn't do a lot more of that earlier in the game. In fact, they did very little in terms of their usual deception (zone-read and also the gimmicky play-action fake type stuff).
In other words, Seattle made the necessary adjustments late in the game as they ran the read-option 10 times for 93 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter and OT. So perhaps it was a change in strategy as opposed to a red-assed, rah-rah pep talk that got them going.
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Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 25s25 seconds ago
Ravens hired former Bears HC Marc Trestman as OC, per source.
So the Ravens OC replaces the Broncos HC who replaces the Bears HC who replaces the Ravens OC.
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In other words, Seattle made the necessary adjustments late in the game as they ran the read-option 10 times for 93 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter and OT. So perhaps it was a change in strategy as opposed to a red-assed, rah-rah pep talk that got them going.
Like I said, they played much better from the start of the 3rd quarter even up until that point than they had in the first half. And they did nothing different schematically. So yes, the change in strategy certainly helped. But if you don't think guys like Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, or Doug Baldwin were in the locker room at halftime giving a "red-assed, rah rah pep talk" trying to light a fire under their teammates then I just flat out think you're wrong. And if you don't think those "red-assed, rah rah pep talks" are worth anything then I'm not sure why the camera caught Richard Sherman doing exactly that on the sidelines during that game. If they mean nothing, what's the point in Sherman wasting his own energy to yell in the middle of all his teammates while they're getting "red-ass" whipped all over the field? It's ignorant to think that "red-assed, rah rah pep talks" like Charles Woodson during the Packer's 2010 Playoff run or Ray Lewis during his last season with the Ravens didn't help motivate their teammates to play better on the field, even in the Super Bowl when you wouldn't think players would need any extra motivation. I know I've certainly been a part of teams in big situations and become even more motivated to do what I had to do due to a "red-ass, rah rah pep talk."
But hey, they probably just all sat calmly at their lockers and had an even-keeled discussion about the 2nd half strategy, I'm sure.
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Like I said, they played much better from the start of the 3rd quarter even up until that point than they had in the first half.
No they didn't. They went three and out on their first drive.
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No they didn't. They went three and out on their first drive.
Okay, and then...? Again, they were down 16-0 at the half. Through 30 minutes, they were outscored by 16. Over the course of the next 25 minutes, they outscored the Packers by 4. If that's not playing much better, then I'm not sure what to say...
And nowhere did I say that a "red-ass rah rah pep talk" is the only reason (or even the main reason) that the Seahawks came back. I responded to the question of what I thought the Seahawks did poorly with their gameplan. I personally think "red-ass rah rah pep talks" can be very motivation, even at the highest stage. Apparently Richard Sherman, Charles Woodson, Ray Lewis, and other other-worldly athletes do, too. But Merritt doesn't, so it must be pointless.
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Okay, and then...? Again, they were down 16-0 at the half. Through 30 minutes, they were outscored by 16. Over the course of the next 25 minutes, they outscored the Packers by 4. If that's not playing much better, then I'm not sure what to say...
My point is that they played better. Changed what they were doing. It wasn't about someone lighting a fire under their ass.
Really, you watch way too much ESPN if you think that Ray Lewis crap makes that much of a difference.
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My point is that they played better. Changed what they were doing. It wasn't about someone lighting a fire under their ass.
Really, you watch way too much ESPN if you think that Ray Lewis crap makes that much of a difference.
How else to say this...? I did not say it is the main reason the Seahawks came back. But it absolutely makes a difference to have someone step up and get you fired up.
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How else to say this...? I did not say it is the main reason the Seahawks came back. But it absolutely makes a difference to have someone step up and get you fired up.
Probably true to a limited extent, but not nearly as much as you seem to believe.
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Probably true to a limited extent, but not nearly as much as you seem to believe.
I'm sure I have overstated it. What I mean to make my point is that sometimes it is good to have somebody who can fire players up. Someone who is a little fiery on the sidelines. Pete Carroll is a fiery guys and to me it seems like his players would run through a freaking forest fire to play for him, while McCarthy is not at all and we don't seem to have the same killer instinct. Is the reason we couldn't get to Russell Wilson on 3rd and 19 because nobody yelled at them from the sidelines before the play as opposed to rushing 2, spying 1, and dropping 8 into coverage? No. But it can certainly help motivate a player.
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Donatell following Vic to Chicago. I like this.
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I'm sure I have overstated it. What I mean to make my point is that sometimes it is good to have somebody who can fire players up. Someone who is a little fiery on the sidelines. Pete Carroll is a fiery guys and to me it seems like his players would run through a freaking forest fire to play for him, while McCarthy is not at all and we don't seem to have the same killer instinct. Is the reason we couldn't get to Russell Wilson on 3rd and 19 because nobody yelled at them from the sidelines before the play as opposed to rushing 2, spying 1, and dropping 8 into coverage? No. But it can certainly help motivate a player.
Players also would run through a forest fire for Lovie Smith and he's anything but a fiery guy. I guess it all depends on the individual.
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So the Ravens OC replaces the Broncos HC who replaces the Bears HC who replaces the Ravens OC.
(http://disney-sheet-music.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/circle_of_life_simba.jpg)
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So the Ravens OC replaces the Broncos HC who replaces the Bears HC who replaces the Ravens OC.
The Ravens lost.
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So the Ravens OC replaces the Broncos HC who replaces the Bears HC who replaces the Ravens OC.
And allegedly the Broncos OC is on the way to Chicago for an interview.
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The Ravens lost.
Hopefully Justin Forsett is prepared to catch a whole lotta 3-yard passes!
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Gary Crowton is now the offensive coordinator for the Southern Utah University Thunderbirds.
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It continues... the pain continues.
https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557678748590698497
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The way Karma has been, Seattle is a lock to win the Super Bowl. Witness: Dallas beats Detroit at least partially because of a blown officials call. Green Bay beats Dallas, the recipient of a gift the week before, on a very close overturned call. Green Bay loses the next week. New England underinflates their balls. (so many jokes, so little time). They win. Ergo, according to the karmic universe, they lose their next game. Yeah, I know it is ridiculous.
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It continues... the pain continues.
https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557678748590698497
That didn't really affect a whole lot. A minute later we had the ball on the 4...and then backed up to the 19 with the unsportsmanlike conduct.
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That didn't really affect a whole lot. A minute later we had the ball on the 4...and then backed up to the 19 with the unsportsmanlike conduct.
Very true; really, I'm just still wallowing.
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Goodwill and the NFL were aware of accusations against NE for deflating balls before this game. But he and Kraft are great friends.
Integrity and honesty matter. Fire Goodell now!
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Gase follows Fox to Chicago. Not sure how I feel. I don't think the Bears are built for screens and timing routes. I do like how Denver's run game excelled at the end of the season.
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His offense tended to marginalize the qb position. For Chicago that may be a good thing. Expect a lot more run.
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Goodwill and the NFL were aware of accusations against NE for deflating balls before this game. But he and Kraft are great friends.
Integrity and honesty matter. Fire Goodell now!
That's not happening. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. But it would be funny if this caused him to be fired and not the Ray Rice situation and how it was handled.
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Gary Crowton is now the offensive coordinator for the Southern Utah University Thunderbirds.
I have a picture of Crowton and myself outside the Bears locker room from the 2000 season. He was a weird dude.
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Goodwill and the NFL were aware of accusations against NE for deflating balls before this game. But he and Kraft are great friends.
Integrity and honesty matter. Fire Goodell now!
If the NFL was really concerned about teams deflating game balls, then the NFL would hire 16 part-time guys whose sole job is to babysit the footballs once they're inflated to spec instead of simply turning them over to an employee of the home team.
Every team deflates (EDIT: or over-inflates) balls... domestic violence is a better-kept secret in the NFL than improperly-inflated balls.
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In a week that couldn't get any worse, Coach Mike McCarthy just lost his 47 year old brother to a massive heart attack. Condolences to the McCarthy family.
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In a week that couldn't get any worse, Coach Mike McCarthy just lost his 47 year old brother to a massive heart attack. Condolences to the McCarthy family.
Where did you see that the cause of death was a heart attack? I assume it was, based on the circumstances (collapse while playing racquetball), but I hadn't seen the cause of death reported anywhere.
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http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B257_3HH6to/hqdefault.jpg
Now THIS one hurts quite a bit, and certainly did affect what happened the rest of the game (as opposed to the missed off sides call before Rodgers's first INT). 6 men on 1 side of the kicker. Not legal. Should've been penalized for an illegal formation and the onside kick never would've happened. Ouch.
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http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B257_3HH6to/hqdefault.jpg
Now THIS one hurts quite a bit, and certainly did affect what happened the rest of the game (as opposed to the missed off sides call before Rodgers's first INT). 6 men on 1 side of the kicker. Not legal. Should've been penalized for an illegal formation and the onside kick never would've happened. Ouch.
Rule changed in 09. At least 4 players must be on each side of the ball. 3 must be outside hash, and 1 outside numbers. Rule 6-1-3 (c)
- Quote from Dean Blandino @DeanBlandino
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Rule changed in 09. At least 4 players must be on each side of the ball. 3 must be outside hash, and 1 outside numbers. Rule 6-1-3 (c)
- Quote from Dean Blandino @DeanBlandino
Really? Interesting.
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Where did you see that the cause of death was a heart attack? I assume it was, based on the circumstances (collapse while playing racquetball), but I hadn't seen the cause of death reported anywhere.
I thought that's what jsonline reported but I might be in error. Perhaps an assumption on my part.
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I thought that's what jsonline reported but I might be in error. Perhaps an assumption on my part.
I heard or read that somewhere as well, but can't remember where.
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People still talking about Dez Bryant? I think that "catch" has officially jumped the shark.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/prisoner-sues-nfl-for--88-billion-over-dez-bryant-s-overturned-catch-154343589.html
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Shawn Slocum....fired.
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Shawn Slocum....fired.
good, I figured McCarthy gave him enough time already
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Shawn Slocum....fired.
About 6 years too late.
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Nolan Cromwell is available
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February 3, 1959 is, of course, the day the music died. This link will take you to the front page of our Milwaukee Journal from that date, showing the chartered Beechcraft Bonanza plane wreckage near Mason City, Iowa that took Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and “The Big Bopper” way too soon. Ritchie Valens “won” a coin toss to get the last seat on the plane. Waylon Jennings stayed back.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19590203&id=9TEoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=siUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5024,1783773
For you Packer fans, of note from that newspaper is mention of Vince Lombardi arriving in Green Bay the day before. So glad he had a better pilot!
And an interesting note, given the vaccination thread:
I also see 21 school kids were barred from attending public school in New Jersey because they had not been vaccinated against polio. Do you think Chris Christie was one of them?
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Whoops
Twitter Tracka
Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde · 1h 1 hour ago
Starke, Fla. police found $190,028.81 in cash along with 9mm semi-automatic pistol and two Ziploc bags of marijuana when pulling over Guion.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9Bf2vMIUAA4OO2.jpg:large)
Awesome couple days for the NFL:
Letroy Guion: Arrested http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=46961
Joseph Randle: Arrested again http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/12278392/dallas-cowboys-running-back-joseph-randle-arrested-again
D'Qwell Jackson: Hates Pizza, arrested http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/colts-player-tied-to-deflategate-punched-pizza-guy-report/ar-AA8YsrJ
Terrance Cody: Arrested http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12268940/terrence-cody-formerly-baltimore-ravens-indicted-animal-abuse
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Packers were negotiating with him on a long-term contract extension too.
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Another in a long line of people of prominence fookin' up prosperity, hey?
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Packers were negotiating with him on a long-term contract extension too.
If they had extended his contract sooner, maybe he wouldn't have needed the supplemental income. Kind of puts underinflated balls into perspective, aina?
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We should have seen this coming, Rodgers did ;)
Rodgers said on his weekly radio show Jan. 6. "There's things about his personality that really remind me of Johnny Jolly."
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000469403/article/clements-takes-over-playcalling-duties-from-mccarthy?campaign=Facebook_atn_hanzus
YES!
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Official per MM's press conference today:
Clements to Associate HC, will do playcalling
Bennett Offensive Coordinator
Van Pelt QBs and WR
Mike Solari assistant OL coach
Ron Zook ST Coordinator
Jason Simmons, asst. ST
Jerry Montgomery Defensive front assistant.
Interesting changes
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I don't expect the offense to change much. I expect McCarthy to be spending a lot more time on defense and special teams.
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According to Rotoworld:
"At least ten" former members of the Lovie Smith and Marc Trestman coaching staffs told ESPN Chicago the Bears "can't consistently compete for championships" with Jay Cutler as the quarterback.
Two Bears teammates also said they consider Cutler "a divisive figure with whom they'd rather not continue to play." Beat writer Michael C. Wright still expects the Bears to give Cutler "one last shot," something his contract almost requires they do. It's no secret Cutler essentially sabotaged Trestman's offense, refusing to operate within the confines of the system. When asked about his willingness to adhere to any offensive structure, several ex-Bears coaches used the terms "renegade" and "rogue" to describe Cutler's play
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According to Rotoworld:
"At least ten" former members of the Lovie Smith and Marc Trestman coaching staffs told ESPN Chicago the Bears "can't consistently compete for championships" with Jay Cutler as the quarterback.
Two Bears teammates also said they consider Cutler "a divisive figure with whom they'd rather not continue to play." Beat writer Michael C. Wright still expects the Bears to give Cutler "one last shot," something his contract almost requires they do. It's no secret Cutler essentially sabotaged Trestman's offense, refusing to operate within the confines of the system. When asked about his willingness to adhere to any offensive structure, several ex-Bears coaches used the terms "renegade" and "rogue" to describe Cutler's play
...but I'm just a blind hater.
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Eagles have reportedly traded Lesean Mccoy to the Bills for Kiko Alonso...
interesting move to say the least. Maybe going for an RB in the first round?
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According to Rotoworld:
"At least ten" former members of the Lovie Smith and Marc Trestman coaching staffs told ESPN Chicago the Bears "can't consistently compete for championships" with Jay Cutler as the quarterback.
Two Bears teammates also said they consider Cutler "a divisive figure with whom they'd rather not continue to play." Beat writer Michael C. Wright still expects the Bears to give Cutler "one last shot," something his contract almost requires they do. It's no secret Cutler essentially sabotaged Trestman's offense, refusing to operate within the confines of the system. When asked about his willingness to adhere to any offensive structure, several ex-Bears coaches used the terms "renegade" and "rogue" to describe Cutler's play
"renegade" and "rogue"? hey, maybe he is just trying to be like jimmy mac? try some shades err something?
i realize mccown had a tough year last year with tampa, but he scared the chit outa me more than cutler back in 2013-14
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...but I'm just a blind hater.
Nah.... I think that might be me (when it comes to the Bears).
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Eagles have reportedly traded Lesean Mccoy to the Bills for Kiko Alonso...
interesting move to say the least. Maybe going for an RB in the first round?
Doubt it. My guess is Kelly feels that most backs can be productive in his system so I don't see them allocating a lot of resources or a high draft pick to the position. It does sound like he wants to trade up for Mariotta.
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Eagles have reportedly traded Lesean Mccoy to the Bills for Kiko Alonso...
interesting move to say the least. Maybe going for an RB in the first round?
He is allegedly targeting Mark Ingram.
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Pack gonna let Cobb hit the market. Genius move TT. Adams struggled mostly as the 3.
Would be nice to add a Suh or McCourtey but we know proven talent can't come here.
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Pack gonna let Cobb hit the market. Genius move TT. Adams struggled mostly as the 3.
Would be nice to add a Suh or McCourtey but we know proven talent can't come here.
Have you taken a look at the WRs who make $12 million/year? Cobb isn't even close to that level. Cobb isn't even the #1 receiver. You want Ted to pay his #2 receiver $12 million/year? Wow. Talk about a genius move...
And yeah, I guess Julius Peppers wasn't proven.
No thanks to a punk who's going to be paid more than any defensive player in the NFL.
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Have you taken a look at the WRs who make $12 million/year? Cobb isn't even close to that level. Cobb isn't even the #1 receiver. You want Ted to pay his #2 receiver $12 million/year? Wow. Talk about a genius move...
And yeah, I guess Julius Peppers wasn't proven.
No thanks to a punk who's going to be paid more than any defensive player in the NFL.
Ya, even as a Bears fan, we need as much help as we can get on the D Line and I wouldn't want Suh within 20 miles of Halas Hall.
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According to Rotoworld:
"At least ten" former members of the Lovie Smith and Marc Trestman coaching staffs told ESPN Chicago the Bears "can't consistently compete for championships" with Jay Cutler as the quarterback.
Two Bears teammates also said they consider Cutler "a divisive figure with whom they'd rather not continue to play." Beat writer Michael C. Wright still expects the Bears to give Cutler "one last shot," something his contract almost requires they do. It's no secret Cutler essentially sabotaged Trestman's offense, refusing to operate within the confines of the system. When asked about his willingness to adhere to any offensive structure, several ex-Bears coaches used the terms "renegade" and "rogue" to describe Cutler's play
What I wonder is if there are also "at least 10" former Bears' coaches and 2+ current players who believe that the team CAN contend with Cutler at QB. Maybe there are 20, maybe there aren't any. Unfortunately, that's not an attention-grabbing story so we'll never know. Not defending Cutler, just saying that taking a poll of former coaches would be a much better representation of how Cutler is viewed than simply finding the "non-believers" and running with that story.
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Ya, even as a Bears fan, we need as much help as we can get on the D Line and I wouldn't want Suh within 20 miles of Halas Hall.
For the right price, I'd take Suh on the Bears in a second.
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For the right price, I'd take Suh on the Bears in a second.
Yeah, for the right price I would too. But more than JJ Watt's 6 year, $100 million with more than his $52 million guaranteed is not the right price.
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What I wonder is if there are also "at least 10" former Bears' coaches and 2+ current players who believe that the team CAN contend with Cutler at QB. Maybe there are 20, maybe there aren't any. Unfortunately, that's not an attention-grabbing story so we'll never know. Not defending Cutler, just saying that taking a poll of former coaches would be a much better representation of how Cutler is viewed than simply finding the "non-believers" and running with that story.
Agreed, these stories are lazy journalism at best. That's not a ringing endorsement of Cutler or anything of the like, but its just really spurious. I also find terms like "renegade" and "rogue" are hilarious to idict a player as a problem when there have been countless reports of the team not taking Trestman seriously and undermining his "authority" at meetings, practices, and the like. It would be great if these anonymous sources would speak up and let Bears fans know who would be a better fit to run the offense. The bad PR and dysfunction at Halas Hall is far more concerning than anonymous criticisms of Cutler at this point.
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I was waiting for my bud Wadesworld. ;). I'll agree Cobb is a "2" on the pack but he's a top 10 receiver in all of the nfl. Packers have the 8th most cap space at 33 million. They need at least that second threat in a passing league. Adams didn't impress me on the whole.
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I was waiting for my bud Wadesworld. ;). I'll agree Cobb is a "2" on the pack but he's a top 10 receiver in all of the nfl. Packers have the 8th most cap space at 33 million. They need at least that second threat in a passing league. Adams didn't impress me on the whole.
C'mon. Cobb is not a top 10 WR in the NFL.
Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Jordy, Demarius Thomas, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Emmanual Sanders, TY Hilton are all better than him.
Guys in the same tier as him include Jeremy Maclin, Odell Beckham, DeSean Jackson, Alshon Jeffrey, Steve Smith, Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, Andre Johnson (top tier when healthy), and Mike Wallace. You don't pay any of these guys anywhere near $12 million/year.
You simply don't pay a #2 WR $12 million/year, especially when your clear number 1 is getting $9 million/year and the #2 guy you are going to pay $12 million/year is a slot WR, small, and an injury risk.
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The question about Suh isn't whether a team would want him. They would and they should. The question is whether you want to commit the amount of $ to him that his agents want.
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I was waiting for my bud Wadesworld. ;). I'll agree Cobb is a "2" on the pack but he's a top 10 receiver in all of the nfl. Packers have the 8th most cap space at 33 million. They need at least that second threat in a passing league. Adams didn't impress me on the whole.
Cobb rookie stats: 25 receptions 375 yards 1 td
Adams rookie stats: 38 receptions 446 yards 3 td.
Adams had a very good season for a rookie wide receiver. Better than the guy you want to spend 12 mil on.
The Packers shouldn't over pay for cobb. The 12 million number is just the agent blowing smoke up everyone's ass. He may get it, but he is not worth that. Small slot receivers are easy to come by.
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Cobb rookie stats: 25 receptions 375 yards 1 td
Adams rookie stats: 38 receptions 446 yards 3 td.
Adams had a very good season for a rookie wide receiver. Better than the guy you want to spend 12 mil on.
The Packers shouldn't over pay for cobb. The 12 million number is just the agent blowing smoke up everyone's ass. He may get it, but he is not worth that. Small slot receivers are easy to come by.
A little misleading as Cobb had 3 vets ahead of him as a rookie. Adams only had 2 so he got more playing time. I'd rather see stats for how many plays each was on the field for as a rookie - then we could get a more accurate stat with the ratio of catches/number of plays on field.
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Right or wrong Thompson believes that Rodgers makes his receivers better. Look at Jennings. Don't you think he'd rather be a Packer?
Where's he gonna go? Oakland? Jacksonville?
If he wants to win he stays with the Pack.
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Right or wrong Thompson believes that Rodgers makes his receivers better. Look at Jennings. Don't you think he'd rather be a Packer?
Where's he gonna go? Oakland? Jacksonville?
If he wants to win he stays with the Pack.
'xactly. Would much rather sign Julius Thomas and resign Bullaga while addressing the slot WR position in the draft than pay $12 million/year for a #2, small slot WR. And Cobb is my favorite Packer, maybe my favorite Packer ever.
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'xactly. Would much rather sign Julius Thomas and resign Bullaga while addressing the slot WR position in the draft than pay $12 million/year for a #2, small slot WR. And Cobb is my favorite Packer, maybe my favorite Packer ever.
And if memory serves, The Vikes did not pay all that much more for Jennings than the Packers offered. If Cobb will sign for $9ish million, keep him. $12 million NOT.
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I was waiting for my bud Wadesworld. ;). I'll agree Cobb is a "2" on the pack but he's a top 10 receiver in all of the nfl. Packers have the 8th most cap space at 33 million. They need at least that second threat in a passing league. Adams didn't impress me on the whole.
Cobb is not a top 10 receiver in the NFL, no way
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Jennings may be a cap casualty. Getting him back on the cheap may be the better option.
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Jennings may be a cap casualty. Getting him back on the cheap may be the better option.
Never even thought of that.
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No way? Cobb was #9 in receptions and #4 in td's last year. If anything he surely is.
Adams had difficulty getting separation against nickel backs often last year. Receiver is the new premium position. Can't hope you hit on a third rounder in the draft especially with our infinitely porous defense that needs to be addressed.
Julius Thomas? TT doesn't sign free agents in their prime.
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No way? Cobb was #9 in receptions and #4 in td's last year. If anything he surely is.
That's hardly a way to judge a receiver. Look at who is throwing the ball to him and the offense they are running. You pay someone for how much more valuable they are than a "replacement level player." Overpaying in the NFL is a disaster.
Look at Emmanuel Sanders. Decent receiver in Pittsburgh, but then jumped to #5 in the NFL in receptions last year. Did he suddenly become *that* much better? No...he was playing with Manning.
And his cap hit last year was less than $6M. That is the type of guy TT needs to look for.
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B Marsh (the Bears version), traded to the JETS.
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B Marsh (the Bears version), traded to the JETS.
Wow. For what?
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Wow. For what?
Trying to find that out.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/3/6/8161659/bears-trade-brandon-marshall-to-the-jets
Doesn't say.
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Getting *anything* for him is worth it.
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Getting *anything* for him is worth it.
I disagree. I was in the camp that didnt have any problem with Marshall's actions last year. That season was a tire fire and I was happy someone was bringing some emotion and fire into the locker room. I dont know what percentage of Bears fans wanted him gone but if I had to guess it would be under 30.
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I disagree. I was in the camp that didnt have any problem with Marshall's actions last year. That season was a tire fire and I was happy someone was bringing some emotion and fire into the locker room. I dont know what percentage of Bears fans wanted him gone but if I had to guess it would be under 30.
I think the number is lower than that. And I don't like to see him go either.
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Who gives a crap about what the fans think?
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For a 5th-rounder apparently.
I like Marshall and he was the best WR in Bears' history but it was time for both sides to move on. The Bears have A LOT of holes to fill and giving up an aging but talented WR to free up $4M is worth it.
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Agreed. This move was necessary.
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I disagree. I was in the camp that didnt have any problem with Marshall's actions last year. That season was a tire fire and I was happy someone was bringing some emotion and fire into the locker room. I dont know what percentage of Bears fans wanted him gone but if I had to guess it would be under 30.
The season was partially a tire fire cause he's one who helped to provide the tires.
He's now been sold at a bargain rate by his last three teams. Not a coincidence.
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"That's hardly a way to judge a receiver. Look at who is throwing the ball to him and the offense they are running. You pay someone for how much more valuable they are than a "replacement level player." Overpaying in the NFL is a disaster.
Look at Emmanuel Sanders. Decent receiver in Pittsburgh, but then jumped to #5 in the NFL in receptions last year. Did he suddenly become *that* much better? No...he was playing with Manning.
And his cap hit last year was less than $6M. That is the type of guy TT needs to look for."
I agree qb plays a role as well as volume. I don't believe sabermetrics work as well unless we're playing fantasy football, there are more variables that would go into value above bench player.
If I was going to find true value on receivers I'd grade out every route for separation from cb, but I don't have the time. Either way we know Cobb is a top 10 receiver statistically on the Packers, and that makes him a very valuable commodity.
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No way? Cobb was #9 in receptions and #4 in td's last year. If anything he surely is.
Adams had difficulty getting separation against nickel backs often last year. Receiver is the new premium position. Can't hope you hit on a third rounder in the draft especially with our infinitely porous defense that needs to be addressed.
Julius Thomas? TT doesn't sign free agents in their prime.
All I'm saying is Cobb doesn't deserve the money he's looking for. He's a good WR, but I honestly don't see him as anything past a speedy slot guy with good hands. He isn't worth 10+ mil a year, that sort of money is reserved for Dez Bryant types (who IMO is the best in the game right now)
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Pack sign Cobb. 4 years, $40 mil
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Pack sign Cobb. 4 years, $40 mil
Yup. Glad he's back. Slightly overpaid but we have the cap space. Now for Bulaga.
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Pack sign Cobb. 4 years, $40 mil
(http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/clap%20clap%20clap/grand/clap-clap-clap-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-2242.gif)
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Good deal for Cobb, really good deal for Pack.
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Yup. Glad he's back. Slightly overpaid but we have the cap space. Now for Bulaga.
I don't think he's being overpaid, they're paying the going rate for a great WR and true impact player like him. HIs average annual is now right in line with other comparable WR's.
Spectacular news.
Agree completely too - Bulaga next, keep that O-line intact for at least a couple more years.
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I'd like to see the pack get middle linebacker Denzel Perryman or the McKinney kid with the first pick.
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I'm thinking Bulaga is gone if $7-8 mil is the real price. Not going to make more than Josh and will never play LT for Pack.
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I'm thinking Bulaga is gone if $7-8 mil is the real price. Not going to make more than Josh and will never play LT for Pack.
The Packers need to pay him. I wouldn't go so far as to pay him LT money, and that may complicate things if a) that's the position he wants to play, and b) a team is willing to hand their LT position to him and pay the going rate for a LT starter (which I wouldn't be surprised there were team(s)).
But for crying out loud, your LT starter now is on a rookie contract, so you have hardly anything invested at the tackle positions right now, and your depth at the position consists of an undrafted free agent coming off a torn ACL. He's young, he's very good, he plays a critical positon protecting your franchise QB, pay the man. And I predict they will pay him. There was all this hand wringing about losing Cobb by JS writers, and they got his deal done post haste when the urgency was there to get it done.
I love Sitton, but I just don't think it's the injustice of the world to pay Bulaga more than him. Either tackle position is more critical than a guard. And whose to say that Bulaga may end up as good or better than Sitton sooner than later? The potential is certainly there.
I read the JS story by Silverstein and the points he raised not to pay Bulaga his market value were stupid.
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The question is will Bulaga be able to stay on the field throughout the course of a full contract, or enough of it to make a big contract worth it? I hope we get it done, but if teams are going to overpay him then you almost have to look elsewhere.
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The Packers need to pay him. I wouldn't go so far as to pay him LT money, and that may complicate things if a) that's the position he wants to play, and b) a team is willing to hand their LT position to him and pay the going rate for a LT starter (which I wouldn't be surprised there were team(s)).
But for crying out loud, your LT starter now is on a rookie contract, so you have hardly anything invested at the tackle positions right now, and your depth at the position consists of an undrafted free agent coming off a torn ACL. He's young, he's very good, he plays a critical positon protecting your franchise QB, pay the man. And I predict they will pay him. There was all this hand wringing about losing Cobb by JS writers, and they got his deal done post haste when the urgency was there to get it done.
I love Sitton, but I just don't think it's the injustice of the world to pay Bulaga more than him. Either tackle position is more critical than a guard. And whose to say that Bulaga may end up as good or better than Sitton sooner than later? The potential is certainly there.
I read the JS story by Silverstein and the points he raised not to pay Bulaga his market value were stupid.
Respectfully, I disagree. The Packers have two future expiring OL contracts AND Bulaga has had difficulty staying on the field. I'd love to retain him too but he's not Pro Bowl material. Rather, he's probably the most expendable of all the lineman. One primary reason that we've had success is that we don't chase the dollar. But let's hope they can work something out.
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Respectfully, I disagree. The Packers have two future expiring OL contracts AND Bulaga has had difficulty staying on the field. I'd love to retain him too but he's not Pro Bowl material. Rather, he's probably the most expendable of all the lineman. One primary reason that we've had success is that we don't chase the dollar. But let's hope they can work something out.
Yep, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just remember how awful it was when the Pack tried trotting that stiff Allen Barbre out there as a starting RT. Finding good tackles on either side is hard, as evidenced by how many teams have a need at one or both tackle positions. And with Barclay, the ceiling only goes so high with him, plus he's coming off major injury. So the internal candidates to replace Bulaga are nil right now. Offensive line and especially the tackle positions is not where you want to skimp with arguably the NFL's best player being the one they're protecting.
If Thompson wouldn't have whiffed so terribly on the Sherrod 1st round selection, it would be a relatively easy decison to let Bulaga just walk if he's not willing to accept your price.
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I'm not sure TT whiffed on the Sherrod selection. The guy suffered a pretty catastrophic injury. Remember that Barclay is coming off the exact same injury that Bulaga was last year.
That being said, I do think they should pay him.
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I'm not sure TT whiffed on the Sherrod selection. The guy suffered a pretty catastrophic injury. Remember that Barclay is coming off the exact same injury that Bulaga was last year.
That being said, I do think they should pay him.
He whiffed on Sherrod. Mike Flannagan suffered a terrible leg injury too early on as a Packer, a fracture as well I'm pretty sure (probably a different bone) but recovered, and went on to a very solid career as our starting C.
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Remember that Barclay is coming off the exact same injury that Bulaga was last year.
True, but while same injury as Bulaga's, nowhere near the potential and natual ability as Bulaga.
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He whiffed on Sherrod. Mike Flannagan suffered a terrible leg injury too early on as a Packer, a fracture as well I'm pretty sure (probably a different bone) but recovered, and went on to a very solid career as our starting C.
Well it is hard for me to say that Flanagan's injury was better or worse than Sherrod's. People also recover differently.
I just can't say that he was a whiff when the guy missed almost two years due to injury.
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Suh to the Dolphins
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Suh to the Dolphins
114mil, 60 mil guareented.......
Put him with Cameron Wake, Jordan, Odrick, Stark and that is a badass frontline line.
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dolphins d started out great last year then faded. Philbin's last shot to get it right is this year.
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SF putting Kap on the trade block.
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SF putting Kap on the trade block.
Cmon bears.
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Cmon bears.
Allegedly bears and eagles have reached out.
I would unnatural carnal knowledgeing hate this move for the bears.
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Cmon bears.
Too many holes that need to be filled. Can't afford to give up high draft picks which is what the Niners are going to be wanting for a fairly unproven commodity.
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He whiffed on Sherrod. Mike Flannagan suffered a terrible leg injury too early on as a Packer, a fracture as well I'm pretty sure (probably a different bone) but recovered, and went on to a very solid career as our starting C.
He whiffed. That guy was terrible.
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Too many holes that need to be filled. Can't afford to give up high draft picks which is what the Niners are going to be wanting for a fairly unproven commodity.
Plus aren't the Bears a year away from truly stating the rebuilding process? They need to do it through solid draft choices, not one time fixes.
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Yep, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just remember how awful it was when the Pack tried trotting that stiff Allen Barbre out there as a starting RT. Finding good tackles on either side is hard, as evidenced by how many teams have a need at one or both tackle positions. And with Barclay, the ceiling only goes so high with him, plus he's coming off major injury. So the internal candidates to replace Bulaga are nil right now. Offensive line and especially the tackle positions is not where you want to skimp with arguably the NFL's best player being the one they're protecting.
If Thompson wouldn't have whiffed so terribly on the Sherrod 1st round selection, it would be a relatively easy decison to let Bulaga just walk if he's not willing to accept your price.
I agree, Sherrod was not a good pick, however what about, Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Linsley, Barclay, Tretter, those were all later round picks, with the exception of Bulaga, that worked out pretty well. I would take my chances with TT picking offensive linemen.
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I agree, Sherrod was not a good pick, however what about, Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Linsley, Barclay, Tretter, those were all later round picks, with the exception of Bulaga, that worked out pretty well. I would take my chances with TT picking offensive linemen.
That's my view too. Plus recall that the Packers would be looking for a RIGHT Tackle. LT seems ably manned for years to come. I suspect someone will want to pay Bulaga LT money and that's not in the cards in Green Bay. Bulaga has missed 30+ games as a Packers starter. I don't blame him but he's simply not a cornerstone player. You guys remember Darren Colledge? That's where I slot Bulaga's talent. Not every position can be max contract stuff.
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That's my view too. Plus recall that the Packers would be looking for a RIGHT Tackle. LT seems ably manned for years to come. I suspect someone will want to pay Bulaga LT money and that's not in the cards in Green Bay. Bulaga has missed 30+ games as a Packers starter. I don't blame him but he's simply not a cornerstone player. You guys remember Darren Colledge? That's where I slot Bulaga's talent. Not every position can be max contract stuff.
TT isn’t going to pay everyone in one position group. The left tackle, left guard and right guard are all up for contract in the next year or 2. There are better players than Bulaga in that group that will be paid.
Worst case scenario Barclay handles the right tackle spot. He was adequate filling in that position when Bulaga missed most of the season in 2013. In fact, he was probably a better run blocker.
If he doesn’t sign Bulaga, look for TT to draft an offensive lineman after the second round to develop and possibly sign a lower tier veteran lineman for depth.
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SF putting Kap on the trade block.
So what exactly are the Niners doing?
**Drop a successful coach, and hire....uh...Singletary Part 2.
**Trade a decent QB.
I am not sure why they felt the need to blow things up just a year after being in the NFCCG.
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Pernell McPhee to the Bears.
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So what exactly are the Niners doing?
**Drop a successful coach, and hire....uh...Singletary Part 2.
**Trade a decent QB.
I am not sure why they felt the need to blow things up just a year after being in the NFCCG.
Kaepernick might've only been good against the Packers' embarrassingly bad defense against a zone read. I used to think he was a legitimately good quarterback, but he got exposed last year. Same with Russell Wilson...make his arm beat you within the pocket and he's really not great. Product of systems.
Patrick Willis is retiring at age 30.
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Kaepernick might've only been good against the Packers' embarrassingly bad defense against a zone read. I used to think he was a legitimately good quarterback, but he got exposed last year. Same with Russell Wilson...make his arm beat you within the pocket and he's really not great. Product of systems.
Patrick Willis is retiring at age 30.
+1
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Pernell McPhee to the Bears.
Solid move, they need as many pass rushers as they can get. I would have preferred if they went for Greg Hardy but who knows if they want to deal with that publicity
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TT isn’t going to pay everyone in one position group. The left tackle, left guard and right guard are all up for contract in the next year or 2. There are better players than Bulaga in that group that will be paid.
Worst case scenario Barclay handles the right tackle spot. He was adequate filling in that position when Bulaga missed most of the season in 2013. In fact, he was probably a better run blocker.
If he doesn’t sign Bulaga, look for TT to draft an offensive lineman after the second round to develop and possibly sign a lower tier veteran lineman for depth.
Concur. It's Ted's way and that has us on the cusp of the Super Bowl every year baring critical injuries. I'd personally take that $7 million and spend it on defense. Expect both BJ and Guion back at DT on one year deals. That'll be cheap for Ted and probably productive. (That pot bust cost Letroy millions.) He's going to need to pay one of his corners. I'll bet on House. Lastly, there's still a need for a starting inside backer. I could legitimately see him dip a toe in free agency once again but probably not this week. And I bet we see John Kuhn for one more year.
It'll never happen but my dream FA pickup someday is JJ. He'd give his left arm to be a Packer. And he'd still get 20 sacks and 5 touchdowns a year.
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It'll never happen but my dream FA pickup someday is JJ. He'd give his left arm to be a Packer. And he'd still get 20 sacks and 5 touchdowns a year.
JJ is signed with Houston through 2021.
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JJ is signed with Houston through 2021.
Damn. That's a long wait. ;D
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jsglow and hairy worthen-
Since you two agree on everything, I'll address this to both of you.
Bulaga will be 26 this season. He should be coming up on his best years. He had a very solid season in 2014. CBS rates him as #9 in their top 100 unrestricted free agents this year!! The comparison of Bulaga being nothing more than Colledge is a ridiculous comparison. Colledge is a middling journeyman. There's a reason why teams think Bulaga is worth 7-8million. The powers that be in the NFL know that COlledge has never been close to that in market value.
You're both just going to write off a right tackle, a right tackle who protects your franchise player, and replace hime with a "worst case scenario" Don Barclay, an undrafted free agent coming off a torn ACL. How high do you think Barclay's ceiling is? Otherwise your plan is hope for the best in the draft?? Ted has missed plenty on offensive lineman. For every Bakthiari and Bulaga, there is a Sherrod and Marshall Newhouse.
The faith you have in plans b and c while just writing off Bulaga without a worry is really thinking as ultimate Packer optimists. And it's well documented there are almost no free agent tackles out there. So you can forget about bringing in Bulaga's replacement that way.
We are way under the cap, and we really got Cobb for our price essentially. So we still have tons of cap room. Where would you spend it, or would you really essentially sit on it? We're on the doorstep of another Super Bowl, let's not screw it up by pinning our hopes on Don freaking Barclay at RT, or an unknown draft choice, when you have a proven guy in your lap already.
My last counter argument, about other lineman pay days coming up soon - I'd put Bulaga ahead of Lang right now. I like Lang, but he has his limitations, and guard is really the only position he's been effective. Sitton, I think his contract is up after this year, you're talking about a guy three years older than Bulaga, a lot more mileage and wear and tear on him already; he played half the season with a bad toe injury, played through it to his credit, but what more is in store as he gets older and you reup his deal? Linsley's just in his second year. Badkthiari, yes, he's headed for a big pay day very soon. But I put Bulaga right behind Bakthiari in the pecking order.
The Packers have been good for so long, some people think we can just keep pulling rabbits out of hats. It's simply an ill conceived mistake if we let Bulaga walk, unless he's demanding ridiculous LT money.
And my prediction remains that Ted will do what it takes to bring him back. I'm not certain of that, but my opinion as of today.
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Damn. That's a long wait. ;D
I'm with you though completely, I've thought of him as a Packer many times. That would be a Reggie type addition, plus bringing the Wisconsin born and bred kid back home.
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Here is what some scouts told McGinn about Bulaga.
"Can make some money. Injury is the key with him. He's a good player. He's the second level. Not a Pro Bowler. Some of it you've got to take with a grain of salt because of the offense. They're able to hide those guys. The ball's out and that guy (Aaron Rodgers) can move around."
And Hutch, I know that you are talking about cap room, but if the team has players down the line that they feel better about than Bulaga, then they aren't going to max out their cap space now. And overpaying just cause you have cap space is a move that bad franchises make.
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jsglow and hairy worthen-
Since you two agree on everything, I'll address this to both of you.
Bulaga will be 26 this season. He should be coming up on his best years. He had a very solid season in 2014. CBS rates him as #9 in their top 100 unrestricted free agents this year!! The comparison of Bulaga being nothing more than Colledge is a ridiculous comparison. Colledge is a middling journeyman. There's a reason why teams think Bulaga is worth 7-8million. The powers that be in the NFL know that COlledge has never been close to that in market value.
You're both just going to write off a right tackle, a right tackle who protects your franchise player, and replace hime with a "worst case scenario" Don Barclay, an undrafted free agent coming off a torn ACL. How high do you think Barclay's ceiling is? Otherwise your plan is hope for the best in the draft?? Ted has missed plenty on offensive lineman. For every Bakthiari and Bulaga, there is a Sherrod and Marshall Newhouse.
The faith you have in plans b and c while just writing off Bulaga without a worry is really thinking as ultimate Packer optimists. And it's well documented there are almost no free agent tackles out there. So you can forget about bringing in Bulaga's replacement that way.
We are way under the cap, and we really got Cobb for our price essentially. So we still have tons of cap room. Where would you spend it, or would you really essentially sit on it? We're on the doorstep of another Super Bowl, let's not screw it up by pinning our hopes on Don freaking Barclay at RT, or an unknown draft choice, when you have a proven guy in your lap already.
My last counter argument, about other lineman pay days coming up soon - I'd put Bulaga ahead of Lang right now. I like Lang, but he has his limitations, and guard is really the only position he's been effective. Sitton, I think his contract is up after this year, you're talking about a guy three years older than Bulaga, a lot more mileage and wear and tear on him already; he played half the season with a bad toe injury, played through it to his credit, but what more is in store as he gets older and you reup his deal? Linsley's just in his second year. Badkthiari, yes, he's headed for a big pay day very soon. But I put Bulaga right behind Bakthiari in the pecking order.
The Packers have been good for so long, some people think we can just keep pulling rabbits out of hats. It's simply an ill conceived mistake if we let Bulaga walk, unless he's demanding ridiculous LT money.
And my prediction remains that Ted will do what it takes to bring him back. I'm not certain of that, but my opinion as of today.
See the post above from Sunshine, The Sultan of. That’s it in a nutshell.
The Packers will make an effort to sign Bulaga because they always want to sign their own, but they have a price in mind and won’t go over it. I don’t think Bulaga is as valuable as you think.
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House to JAX, $6mm/year, $10mm guaranteed
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http://m.jsonline.com/295769041.htm
Looks like Bulaga is staying with the Packers.
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http://m.jsonline.com/295769041.htm
Looks like Bulaga is staying with the Packers.
5 years, under $7M per year.
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5 years, under $7M per year.
Outstanding.
Tramon, c'mon down.
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Outstanding.
Tramon, c'mon down.
im not as convinced on tramon. maybe a 2 year deal for like 5mm a year. more than that id be uncomfortable
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im not as convinced on tramon. maybe a 2 year deal for like 5mm a year. more than that id be uncomfortable
2 or 3 for 6M or less and I'm good with it. We need somebody at the CB position. Obviously Shields outside and Hayward the slot CB. Hayward can play some CB and some S. Need another outside CB.
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Jimmy Graham and a 4th for Max Unger and a 1st. Damnit Seahawks.
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Cant remember the last offseason with so many moves?
i like what the colts are doing - gore and maybe andre johnson.
solid pickup for the seahawks. i'd be upset if i were brees
what the hell are the eagles doing? bradford for foles?
where will revis end up?
Nata to the Lions
Bears get McPhee and Rolle.
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Cant remember the last offseason with so many moves?
i like what the colts are doing - gore and maybe andre johnson.
solid pickup for the seahawks. i'd be upset if i were brees
what the hell are the eagles doing? bradford for foles?
where will revis end up?
Nata to the Lions
Bears get McPhee and Rolle.
Foles is a stiff. Just to give an idea of what Philly thought of him - they re-signed Mark Sanchez.
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Foles is a stiff. Just to give an idea of what Philly thought of him - they re-signed Mark Sanchez.
Yeah, well, emphasis being "what Philly thought". Chip Kelly just seems to be flailing away adding and trading guys. The LeSean McCoy deal seemed odd, trading a stud, young back for a nobody coming off a major injury.
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Cant remember the last offseason with so many moves?
i like what the colts are doing - gore and maybe andre johnson.
solid pickup for the seahawks. i'd be upset if i were brees
what the hell are the eagles doing? bradford for foles?
where will revis end up?
Nata to the Lions
Bears get McPhee and Rolle.
Agree. I do think Foles's 2013 numbers were misleading, but he's at least as good, and probably better than Bradford. I though Foles was improving too before his injury last year, and he seemed to be a pretty good fit for Kelly's offense.
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Yeah, well, emphasis being "what Philly thought". Chip Kelly just seems to be flailing away adding and trading guys. The LeSean McCoy deal seemed odd, trading a stud, young back for a nobody coming off a major injury.
Kinda like Bill Parcels and Pete Carroll.
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Yeah, well, emphasis being "what Philly thought". Chip Kelly just seems to be flailing away adding and trading guys. The LeSean McCoy deal seemed odd, trading a stud, young back for a nobody coming off a major injury.
If you look at stats, historically 26-27 is where RBs start to regress. Considering he was coming off a not-great year where he was running East to West far more than North and South, Kelly is saving a lot of cap space. And that "nobody" was Defensive Rookie of the year for the PFW like other scrubs before him like Ndamukong Suh and Luke Kuechly. He's coming off a major injury but Alonso had a great rookie season and is only 24.
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If you look at stats, historically 26-27 is where RBs start to regress. Considering he was coming off a not-great year where he was running East to West far more than North and South, Kelly is saving a lot of cap space. And that "nobody" was Defensive Rookie of the year for the PFW like other scrubs before him like Ndamukong Suh and Luke Kuechly. He's coming off a major injury but Alonso had a great rookie season and is only 24.
He also played for Chip at Oregon.
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Chip Kelly believes that his offensive system is so good that he can plug any moderately talented skill player into it and have them be successful. He has now figured out he needs a better defense.
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rumor now that NOLA is looking to trade Brees too
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rumor now that NOLA is looking to trade Brees too
Blow it all up, eh.
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rumor now that NOLA is looking to trade Brees too
Makes sense as the Saints would save over $30M over the next 2 seasons by doing so. Highly unlikely though, in large part because so few teams have the cap space to pay a QB $52M over the next 2 seasons.
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Rolle and royal for the bears
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Rolle and royal for the bears
Low-risk signings. Rolle will immediately be a leader on D and Royal fills the void at slot receiver. Nothing spectacular but the team needs some solid veteran players.
Hearing the Bears may have some interest in ILB Brandon Spikes as a 2-down run-stuffer.
Addition: Conte and Melton join Lovie in Tampa.
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I always liked Eddie Royal. Don't he kinda dissappeared though. Don't know if it was injury related or just not good enough.
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I always liked Eddie Royal. Don't he kinda dissappeared though. Don't know if it was injury related or just not good enough.
He's had some injury issues, but he didn't get huge volume in SD. He occasionally got red zone looks but I'm sure Rivers felt a lot safer throwing it to Antonio Gates.
Hopefully he does well as a slot guy for the Bears, Cutler liked throwing to him when they were on the Broncos. He'll never be a #1 guy but at least Alshon has got some potential in that area.
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Just one more highly overpaid receiver and the Vikings hit the Trifecta!!
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Jennings just was cut by the Vikings. If the Packers can pick him up cheap...
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No thanks, pass.
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Jennings just was cut by the Vikings. If the Packers can pick him up cheap...
I'm sure Aaron would love that ::)
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Jennings just was cut by the Vikings. If the Packers can pick him up cheap...
Even if he would resign for cheap with the Pack, it just make zero sense for the team to do. You have two elite WR's at or nearly at the prime of their careers, Cobb and Nelson of course, both making top WR dinero. You have a clearly ascending player in Adams, who at times looked like a budding star in just his rookie season. So where would Jennings fit, your fourth WR? No way would I want him taking snaps from Adams, who's younger and on the rise vs. Jennings, who's what, past 30 already, and likely declining.
It won't happen and it shouldn't.
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Even if he would resign for cheap with the Pack, it just make zero sense for the team to do. You have two elite WR's at or nearly at the prime of their careers, Cobb and Nelson of course, both making top WR dinero. You have a clearly ascending player in Adams, who at times looked like a budding star in just his rookie season. So where would Jennings fit, your fourth WR? No way would I want him taking snaps from Adams, who's younger and on the rise vs. Jennings, who's what, past 30 already, and likely declining.
It won't happen and it shouldn't.
These are very solid points.
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These are very solid points.
Thanks Sultan.
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Reason #37 why the Browns are losers.
3 yrs / $21 mil for Tramon.
I realize this is an NFL contract, but c'mon, man.
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Mike Wallace, bruh. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Reason #37 why the Browns are losers.
3 yrs / $21 mil for Tramon.
I realize this is an NFL contract, but c'mon, man.
Got that right, 7 million per year for a 32 year old corner?!?! I didn't see what the guaranteed money is, but no way am I going to be critical of Ted and the Packers for not going to that absurd level. Tramon can still play a high level of CB in the league, but there's been subtle evidence that he's starting to hit the downslope of his career. And when corners get past 30, the decline can happen in a hurry.
We'll see, but they were right to move on at that price. Now they have to follow it up with a smart addition somewhere, and preferably not rely solely on the draft.
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Apparently the Packers were willing to do $10M over two years. Can't blame either side for not making a deal.
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Browns offer #19 to the Eagles for Sam Bradford?
Is Chip Kelly playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers?
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Bernie Kosar still has eligibility remainin'?
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the pack were smart not to budge House or Williams. Still have a decent core and can draft wisely. can't keep everyone!
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Poor Jay.
http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
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Bernie Kosar still has eligibility remainin'?
Lexxi Silver does.
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Poor Jay.
http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
They could have at least given away an autographed ball from a fan favorite, like Matt Forte. Or Chris Conte.
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Poor Jay.
http://deadspin.com/no-one-bid-on-jay-cutlers-autographed-football-at-a-cha-1695555582?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
:(
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Four you Bears/Score fans .... Doug Buffone died today.
Didn't know this ... played more games as a Bear than anyone else.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-former-bear-doug-buffone-found-dead-at-home-20150420-story.html
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Four you Bears/Score fans .... Doug Buffone died today.
Didn't know this ... played more games as a Bear than anyone else.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-former-bear-doug-buffone-found-dead-at-home-20150420-story.html
Sad, sad news. He was a vastly underrated Chicago Bear. Personally, I was never big on his "meatball fan" radio vibe, but from just about all accounts, he was an amazingly nice guy who LOVED the Bears. He'll be missed.
FWIW, McMichael and Mannelly have both since passed Buffone's record.
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Plant hiding
http://deadspin.com/police-packers-tight-end-tried-hiding-from-cops-in-a-p-1715861991
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http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13297173
But hey, it's just meatball Packer fans.
:o
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I can't believe it. You found someone trashing Cutler. One in a million link right there. Congrats.
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I can't believe it. You found someone trashing Cutler. One in a million link right there. Congrats.
Thanks for further proving the point.
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Thanks for further proving the point.
You are welcome.
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At least Abbredaris made it to day 4 in his rookie season. Season 2 and he's injured on day 1. Thanks, Badgers.
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At least Abbredaris made it to day 4 in his rookie season. Season 2 and he's injured on day 1. Thanks, Badgers.
Think his chances of making final roster are slim anyway.
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It's the Chris Otule plan, redshirt for 2 years due to injuries and hopefully he can bulk up someday