Washington rids itself of sexist language

[ChicosBailBonds]

You leave out the fact that in California you can receive a maximum of 52 weeks at that rate and in order to qualify for that maximum you need to be making close to $110K per year.  It also takes on average 11 months to get a disability hearing.

Wasn't leaving anything out, the source I went to didn't have the details, just the maximum number.  Appreciate the follow up.

Question is, for someone making say $30K in California, how much can they make in disability from the state and from the federal govt?  From what I understand, the state of California you can earn up to 55% of your base pay in disability.  So in this case, $16,500.  That's BEFORE federal disability.   If they make $30K having to go to work but end up making $22k (don't know the number, just throwing it out there) to do nothing, there are people that will pick the $22K to do absolutely nothing.  It becomes a no brainer for a lot of people.

That's the problem.  

EDIT:  11 million people on disability last month, highest amount in US history.  Almost the size of the entire state of Ohio.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I have actually heard people on the radio here ,who were on welfare, say they wanted a better lifestyle. Meaning more money from the rest of us. I guess trading your foodstamps for crack isn't enough for some.

[Coleman]

Secondly, I'd like to see where the majority of conservatives want to defund the ENTIRE safety nets programs.  That's a red herring.  Sure there are some, just as there are some liberals who would like to eliminate the department of defense, but that doesn't mean everyone.  

Paul Ryan's budget, adopted as an official plank of the GOP, proposed to end medicare as we know it. I'm sorry, but coupons are not the same thing.

[forgetful]

Wasn't leaving anything out, the source I went to didn't have the details, just the maximum number.  Appreciate the follow up.

Question is, for someone making say $30K in California, how much can they make in disability from the state and from the federal govt?  From what I understand, the state of California you can earn up to 55% of your base pay in disability.  So in this case, $16,500.  That's BEFORE federal disability.   If they make $30K having to go to work but end up making $22k (don't know the number, just throwing it out there) to do nothing, there are people that will pick the $22K to do absolutely nothing.  It becomes a no brainer for a lot of people.

That's the problem. 

Understood, but it is also quite difficult to qualify.  Takes up to a year to get a hearing, and without a high-priced attorney your chances of succeeding in a disability claim is low. 

That doesn't mean that there aren't some people gaming the system...but you have to ask yourself about the greed of the doctors that are signing off on disabilities that don't exist.  Should we then punish those that are disabled?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The amount of fraud going on is ridiculous.

Honest question: Is it really?

I mean, I hear people rant and shake their fist about it. (ex: did you hear about the lady who has 7 kids because it pays more welfare?!") But, is it really a big problem? Do we have accurate reporting on it? Is it like 2%, or like 72%? Obviously no fraud is "good", but if it's a small percentage, then lets not burn a lot of calories ranting about it.

On the flip side, I hear some people rant and rave about "big business" avoiding taxes and using off-shore accounts. Is this a big problem? Do we have accurate reporting on that? Is it 2% or 72%?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Paul Ryan's budget, adopted as an official plank of the GOP, proposed to end medicare as we know it. I'm sorry, but coupons are not the same thing.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.  The plank, number one, was to not touch ANYTHING for people over a certain age.  ZERO changes.

For those below a certain age, yes there are changes but that's far different than ELIMINATING it, which is what you claimed.  FAR, FAR, FAR different. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Honest question: Is it really?

I mean, I hear people rant and shake their fist about it. (ex: did you hear about the lady who has 7 kids because it pays more welfare?!") But, is it really a big problem? Do we have accurate reporting on it? Is it like 2%, or like 72%? Obviously no fraud is "good", but if it's a small percentage, then lets not burn a lot of calories ranting about it.

How many able body folks are out there not working?  I gave you an example of two of my cousins in the midwest.

Here's a video (this shows Welfare, but same idea with disability) done by Nancy Pelosi's daughter.  She's a liberal, so this isn't some ginned up conservative video. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/17/real_time_interviews_shameless_welfare_recipients.html

By the way, you should see some of the disability claims in this state by police and fire miraculously within 3 years before they are to retire.  Has a lot of Californians furious because it's a game that is played but the politicians won't do anything because of the police and fire unions AND no one wants to take on the first responders.  But there are videos showing guys that claim they can't walk any more, collecting extra disability benefits and next thing you know they are on video water skiing, playing golf, yada yada yada.  It's a fun game until you realize you are paying for it.

[Coleman]

That is absolutely not true and you know it.  The plank, number one, was to not touch ANYTHING for people over a certain age.  ZERO changes.

For those below a certain age, yes there are changes but that's far different than ELIMINATING it, which is what you claimed.  FAR, FAR, FAR different. 

Ok, so if you were 60 or whatever the cutoff was you were grandfathered and there were no changes. But in 30 years all those people are gone, and the program as we know it is eliminated.

Explain to me how moving from a defined benefit program like our current medicare system to a defined contribution program like the one Ryan was proposing is not eliminating it? That's like claiming a pension is not eliminated if you replace it with a 401k. Its a ridiculous notion because the two are completely different concepts.

[Pakuni]

This might be slightly OT, but there's a great blog out there written by a person known as The Last Psychiatrist. He (or she ... but I'm pretty sure it's a he) has written a couple of times about SSI and has a worthy take on the subject.

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_1.html

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/04/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_5.html#more

[Lennys Tap]

Paul Ryan's budget, adopted as an official plank of the GOP, proposed to end medicare as we know it. I'm sorry, but coupons are not the same thing.

You can reform it (end it as we know it) or suffer the consequences. I don't know if Paul Ryan has the answers, but at least he's trying to deal with this enormous elephant in the room that other politicians claim not to see.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

A third of the nation on food stamps

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/101m-get-food-aid-federal-gov-t-outnumber-full-time-private-sector-workers

[Pakuni]

A third of the nation on food stamps

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/101m-get-food-aid-federal-gov-t-outnumber-full-time-private-sector-workers

Err ... that's not what the story says. The number of food stamp recipients is actually less than half of what you claim.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How many able body folks are out there not working?  I gave you an example of two of my cousins in the midwest.

Here's a video (this shows Welfare, but same idea with disability) done by Nancy Pelosi's daughter.  She's a liberal, so this isn't some ginned up conservative video. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/17/real_time_interviews_shameless_welfare_recipients.html

By the way, you should see some of the disability claims in this state by police and fire miraculously within 3 years before they are to retire.  Has a lot of Californians furious because it's a game that is played but the politicians won't do anything because of the police and fire unions AND no one wants to take on the first responders.  But there are videos showing guys that claim they can't walk any more, collecting extra disability benefits and next thing you know they are on video water skiing, playing golf, yada yada yada.  It's a fun game until you realize you are paying for it.

I appreciate the response, but this doesn't tell me anything I don't know.

There are people out there gaming the system and getting benefits. Got it.

Is it 50% of all claims? Its it 1% of all claims? I hate to oversimplify, but before I rage, I'd like to know the actual size of the problem.

Let's work big to small. If it's a big problem, move it up the list. If it's a small problem, then let's move on to something else.

[Hards Alumni]

A third of the nation on food stamps

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/101m-get-food-aid-federal-gov-t-outnumber-full-time-private-sector-workers

I always save this link for discussions like this.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

[Pakuni]

I always save this link for discussions like this.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

I'm sure the Heritage Foundation has an equally nonpartisan and unbiased take on the subject.

[Lennys Tap]

This might be slightly OT, but there's a great blog out there written by a person known as The Last Psychiatrist. He (or she ... but I'm pretty sure it's a he) has written a couple of times about SSI and has a worthy take on the subject.

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_1.html

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/04/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_5.html#more

Most people don't want the truth and are even willing to pay extra not to get it. Great articles - thanks Pakuni.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I appreciate the response, but this doesn't tell me anything I don't know.

There are people out there gaming the system and getting benefits. Got it.

Is it 50% of all claims? Its it 1% of all claims? I hate to oversimplify, but before I rage, I'd like to know the actual size of the problem.

Let's work big to small. If it's a big problem, move it up the list. If it's a small problem, then let's move on to something else.

Due to the size of the country, I'm making an educated guess to say it's a big problem.  Remember in 1986 when we were going to do amnesty ONE TIME and ONLY ONE TIME.  Here we are 20+ years later and the problem is exponentially bigger (to the point the gov't doesn't even know how big but only has estimates into the millions of people).  Because we can't even enforce the laws on the books to contain situations like this, I have zero faith that we can do the same with gov't benefits.  It's why the system is gamed.  If my cousins who are not exactly the brightest guys in the world can drive a truck through the holes that exist, I have to think the problem is big.

This is a good article to get started with in terms of the size of the issue.   http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Due to the size of the country, I'm making an educated guess to say it's a big problem.  Remember in 1986 when we were going to do amnesty ONE TIME and ONLY ONE TIME.  Here we are 20+ years later and the problem is exponentially bigger (to the point the gov't doesn't even know how big but only has estimates into the millions of people).  Because we can't even enforce the laws on the books to contain situations like this, I have zero faith that we can do the same with gov't benefits.  It's why the system is gamed.  If my cousins who are not exactly the brightest guys in the world can drive a truck through the holes that exist, I have to think the problem is big.

This is a good article to get started with in terms of the size of the issue.   http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for me.

Good Government policy can't be derived from from "My cousin is a dumbass and must be stopped!"

I've heard of billionaires paying very little taxes and sending their money off shore. Now, just because I have "heard of it" doesn't mean we need to undertake a bunch of government legislation. It might be a huge waste of time and money.

Governmental action needs to be based upon good data, not conjecture and political posturing.

Let's spend some time figuring out the BIG problems in the county. I'm not sure chasing down waterskiing firemen is the magic bullet we are all looking for.

Get the data. Prioritize. Work big to small. Triage.

EDIT: I'm going to have to spend some more time with the forbes stuff.

[mu03eng]

Timely article from MJS

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/landlords-self-employed-get-state-aid-on-honor-system-b9929264z1-214508041.html

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Guns:
You may like this one from the most recent The Atlantic.

Can Government Play Moneyball?
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/can-government-play-moneyball/309389/

Co-written by former Obama & W advisors.  Asking for more studies on what government programs work and which ones don't, so SABREMETRICS can be applied afterwards.  It's a realtively quick read.

[mu03eng]

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough for me.

Good Government policy can't be derived from from "My cousin is a dumbass and must be stopped!"

I've heard of billionaires paying very little taxes and sending their money off shore. Now, just because I have "heard of it" doesn't mean we need to undertake a bunch of government legislation. It might be a huge waste of time and money.

Governmental action needs to be based upon good data, not conjecture and political posturing.

Let's spend some time figuring out the BIG problems in the county. I'm not sure chasing down waterskiing firemen is the magic bullet we are all looking for.

Get the data. Prioritize. Work big to small. Triage.

EDIT: I'm going to have to spend some more time with the forbes stuff.

Guns, while Adam Carolla and myself are in agreement with you on the big to small but statistics are part of the issue.  I would make the argument if we could document the fraud in all it's various forms to determine the size of the problem, we could take care of it.  Having said that, I'd love to see the accounting for all spending on assistance programs at all government levels and the number of people pulling from those programs.  I think the number would be staggering.

I know it's anecdotal, but my wife works in the medical industry at a pretty affluent hospital.  At least 3% of her patient base consists of folks on some disability signed off by doctors of which there is no apparent disability.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns, while Adam Carolla and myself are in agreement with you on the big to small but statistics are part of the issue.  I would make the argument if we could document the fraud in all it's various forms to determine the size of the problem, we could take care of it.  Having said that, I'd love to see the accounting for all spending on assistance programs at all government levels and the number of people pulling from those programs.  I think the number would be staggering.

I know it's anecdotal, but my wife works in the medical industry at a pretty affluent hospital.  At least 3% of her patient base consists of folks on some disability signed off by doctors of which there is no apparent disability.

Yea, I mean, I'm not one for a bunch a bureaucracy and needless studies... BUT, we need some FACTS before we act.

Right now, we can't even define what the largest problems are. Some people think it's illegal immigration, some say water skiing firefighters, some say corporate fraud. Whatever. I don't care which it is, let's just figure out the biggest problems and work on them.

I'm not saying it's easy. It's going to be painful. But, we need to start attaching real $$ to these issues and then working on them.

Without that, we are just shooting in the dark.

EDIT: I also like Carolla, although I find myself listening to him less and less. His podcast has become a lot more like a traditional radio show, which I'm not that interested in. His first 6 months of podcasting were fantastic though. Lots of cool long form interviews. Adam is actually a good interviewer when he wants to be.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ok, so if you were 60 or whatever the cutoff was you were grandfathered and there were no changes. But in 30 years all those people are gone, and the program as we know it is eliminated.

Explain to me how moving from a defined benefit program like our current medicare system to a defined contribution program like the one Ryan was proposing is not eliminating it? That's like claiming a pension is not eliminated if you replace it with a 401k. Its a ridiculous notion because the two are completely different concepts.

Age 55 and above not impacted

You make it sound like no more benefits will be given...$0.  That's not the case at all.  This is not a zero sum exchange. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Guns:
You may like this one from the most recent The Atlantic.

Can Government Play Moneyball?
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/can-government-play-moneyball/309389/

Co-written by former Obama & W advisors.  Asking for more studies on what government programs work and which ones don't, so SABREMETRICS can be applied afterwards.  It's a realtively quick read.

Good read, thanks for sharing.  I appreciated the part about the business aspect and certainly realize that gov't isn't business...we can debate whether it should be run that way or not.  We have extremely complex models we use to prove out short term and long term ROI on any number of things and good to see the gov't trying to do the same thing.  What will get the pols fighting about is the definitions of success, failure, etc....that's where stats can prove anything you want them to prove, or sometimes despite what they prove it doesn't matter because they will spend it anyway for any number of reasons.

Again, thanks for sharing.

[PBRme]

My personal favorite is the need to change the term "mailman" to "personperson."

Isn't per"son" as sexist as hu"man"