Washington rids itself of sexist language

[Eldon]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/washington-state-gets-rid-sexist-language-162549523.html

"freshman" is sexist.  It is now "first-year student."  "Fisherman" is now "fisher."  "Penmanship" is sexist as well, apparently.  And many others.  Nine other states considering removing gender-biased language.

Keefe, what's the sentiment over there in Washington?  Are gender-specific pronouns doomed over there in Seattle?

[forgetful]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/washington-state-gets-rid-sexist-language-162549523.html

"freshman" is sexist.  It is now "first-year student."  "Fisherman" is now "fisher."  "Penmanship" is sexist as well, apparently.  And many others.  Nine other states considering removing gender-biased language.

Keefe, what's the sentiment over there in Washington?  Are gender-specific pronouns doomed over there in Seattle?

What are they going to do about woMAN, are we just going to switch to chics or something.

[4everwarriors]

Hairy, wet cats

[keefe]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/washington-state-gets-rid-sexist-language-162549523.html

"freshman" is sexist.  It is now "first-year student."  "Fisherman" is now "fisher."  "Penmanship" is sexist as well, apparently.  And many others.  Nine other states considering removing gender-biased language.

Keefe, what's the sentiment over there in Washington?  Are gender-specific pronouns doomed over there in Seattle?

Well, it's not WA state. It is King County. The level of anxiety over horsesh1t here in Seattle is ludicrous. The only thing that surprises me is that WA wasn't the first to do this. Why people worry about such things is beyond me. The world is difficult enough, really.

Interesting note about King County. It was named after William King who was VP when the WA territory was established. King was from North Carolina and owned slaves. This fact so disturbed some members of the County Board that they voted to change the namesake to MLK, even though MLK had no connection with Seattle. This is still controversial as the County Board did not hold hearings or a referendum on the matter. Personally, I don't care one way or the other but I find it ironic that the state is named after a slave holding plantation owner. As was Jefferson County.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

What are they going to do about woMAN, are we just going to switch to chics or something.

womyn.  that's old news.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let me guess, this brilliance was initiated by the right wing in this country?  /sarc


"One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" 

[keefe]

Let me guess, this brilliance was initiated by the right wing in this country?  /sarc


"One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"  

Well, the right wing of the People's Democratic Republic of King County would make old Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov himself blush.

True story: A B1 Driver bro was visiting from Texas. As we drive across the Fremont Bridge to swill microbrews my buddy spots the 20' statue of Lenin that stands watch over the northern approach. He comments that you can't find a Lenin statue in Moscow anymore but you can in Seattle.

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, the right wing of the People's Democratic Republic of King County would make old Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov himself blush.

True story: A B1 Driver bro was visiting from Texas. As we drive across the Fremont Bridge to swill microbrews my buddy spots the 20' statue of Lenin that stands watch over the northern approach. He comments that you can't find a Lenin statue in Moscow anymore but you can in Seattle.

 

I am not surprised....it's a cottage industry down here, by the way.  Lenin and Mao shrines.  It's almost to the point it isn't startling anymore.  Just a few short years......keep the eye on the prize...few short years to escape the insanity of what is going on.

[keefe]

I am not surprised....it's a cottage industry down here, by the way.  Lenin and Mao shrines.  It's almost to the point it isn't startling anymore.  Just a few short years......keep the eye on the prize...few short years to escape the insanity of what is going on.

You did well securing a patch in Idaho. I love Ketchum and the Sawtooths. I don't think Sun Valley skiing is the best, mainly for reasons of snow, but the après ski is superb. Idaho is a strange land. The panhandle is White Supremacy Central while the southern potato belt is teeming with beer-shunning Mormons. I doubt you bought in Burley or Twin Falls so I'm guessing you are likely in either Ketch or Hailey?

[Eldon]

I once read a student newspaper where there was a piece on how econ classes need to teach more of Karl Marx.

I really really wanted to email the author and point out that no economist takes Karl Marx seriously thanks to one of the godfathers (err, rather, godparents) of modern economics, Paul Samuelson.  Samuelson lays out Das Kapital formally and shows that, with respect to economic insights, it is virtually useless.

"The contradictions of capitalism, which Marx saw everywhere, are as nothing compared to the contradictions of Marx himself" 
-Paul Samuelson

Statues commemorating these guys is ridiculous, especially when they are erected here in the US.

[keefe]

I once read a student newspaper where there was a piece on how econ classes need to teach more of Karl Marx.

I really really wanted to email the author and point out that no economist takes Karl Marx seriously thanks to one of the godfathers (err, rather, godparents) of modern economics, Paul Samuelson.  Samuelson lays out Das Kapital formally and shows that, with respect to economic insights, it is virtually useless.

"The contradictions of capitalism, which Marx saw everywhere, are as nothing compared to the contradictions of Marx himself" 
-Paul Samuelson

Statues commemorating these guys is ridiculous, especially when they are erected here in the US.

I think the fundamental flaw of Marxism lies in its refusal to recognize such basic human traits as greed, avarice, self-esteem and individual accomplishment. The world of Karl Marx was brutal. Some of the best chronicles of the Industrial Revolution are the works of Charles Dickens. Here in the States, read Upton Sinclair. Utopian visions have never offered pragmatic solutions. But they make people feel good.

[forgetful]

I think the fundamental flaw of Marxism lies in its refusal to recognize such basic human traits as greed, avarice, self-esteem and individual accomplishment. The world of Karl Marx was brutal. Some of the best chronicles of the Industrial Revolution are the works of Charles Dickens. Here in the States, read Upton Sinclair. Utopian visions have never offered pragmatic solutions. But they make people feel good.

We have to be careful with statements like this.  Although it is true in todays society, cultures like the Pueblo (next time you're in Santa Fe/Taos talk to the natives about their old economic system, flourished under Marxist principles.  A large part of that was because things like greed and avarice were suppressed...you'd be kicked out into the desert for displaying such characteristics.  That led to a community type culture where self-esteem and individual accomplishment were replaced with group esteem and group accomplishment. 

Now, the socio-cultural landscape of today can not support these principals, but to call it a fundamental flaw is denying historical success.

[keefe]

We have to be careful with statements like this.  Although it is true in todays society, cultures like the Pueblo (next time you're in Santa Fe/Taos talk to the natives about their old economic system, flourished under Marxist principles.  A large part of that was because things like greed and avarice were suppressed...you'd be kicked out into the desert for displaying such characteristics.  That led to a community type culture where self-esteem and individual accomplishment were replaced with group esteem and group accomplishment. 

Now, the socio-cultural landscape of today can not support these principals, but to call it a fundamental flaw is denying historical success.

We are in agreement. Society underwent profound cultural change with the shift from agrarian to urban which is why I cite the works of Dickens and Sinclair as an excellent source of insight into the intense psychological change wrought by industrialization.

Your point about the Pueblos is well taken. Taos Pueblo is 1,000 years old and one still hears Tiwa spoken there. They have a communal philosophy which works when the numbers are small and there is a long, deep familiarity as a people.

The mass migration to cities blurred the lens of intimacy. The meat packing plants of Chicago threw together Lithuanians, Poles, Russian Jews, Latvians, Swedes, Irish, and Italians who shared neither language, religion, diet, tradition, nor lore. Their commonality was their plight as wage slaves and the unifying force was Socialism-Marxism. But unifying forces are often artificial constructs - witness the immense popularity of Orthodox Catholicism in Russia today after a century of brutal repression.
 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

It is a fundamental flaw if it cannot be reproduced save in extraordinary circumstances.
I think those touting socialism tend to ignore reality like the Trotskyites who still believe that Socialism is superior and they just need better leaders.  Several years ago I took a Greyline tour of Manhattan. Our Tour Leader was a high school teacher who kept pointing out the tenements which he pronounced were proof of the failure of Capitalism. I finally had had enough and asked him "where are the descendants of those tenements who came here decades ago"
" Aren't those descendants living in Rye, Scarsdale, White Plains and Long Island?" He finally went back to making crap up about who lived where as we passed each street until we reached the Battery.

[keefe]

It is a fundamental flaw if it cannot be reproduced save in extraordinary circumstances.
I think those touting socialism tend to ignore reality like the Trotskyites who still believe that Socialism is superior and they just need better leaders.  Several years ago I took a Greyline tour of Manhattan. Our Tour Leader was a high school teacher who kept pointing out the tenements which he pronounced were proof of the failure of Capitalism. I finally had had enough and asked him "where are the descendants of those tenements who came here decades ago"
" Aren't those descendants living in Rye, Scarsdale, White Plains and Long Island?" He finally went back to making crap up about who lived where as we passed each street until we reached the Battery.

I hope you stiffed him when the tour was over. After all, it would be insulting to throw filthy lucre at him...

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

What are they going to do about woMAN, are we just going to switch to chics or something.

There's rat pack speak: "brauds".

[wildbillsb]

My personal favorite is the need to change the term "mailman" to "personperson."

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the fundamental flaw of Marxism lies in its refusal to recognize such basic human traits as greed, avarice, self-esteem and individual accomplishment. The world of Karl Marx was brutal. Some of the best chronicles of the Industrial Revolution are the works of Charles Dickens. Here in the States, read Upton Sinclair. Utopian visions have never offered pragmatic solutions. But they make people feel good.

That part is the key.  There are people that fundamentally are lazy, don't want to do jack squat and there are those that want to work, innovate, create, risk, etc....those people are not rewarded in that situation.  We already have enough of this nonsense going on here where we pay people to stay unemployed, provide additional funding for extra kids, etc.  What could possibly go wrong?

[ChicosBailBonds]

My personal favorite is the need to change the term "mailman" to "personperson."

Yeah, that one was good.  So was woMAN and personholecover, just to name a few.  My wife, a staunch conservative, had an absolute field day with this article.   It was fun just to watch her in action.  LOL

[keefe]

My wife, a staunch conservative

I am shocked your wife, a rational free market laissez faire capitalist, would tolerate your centrally planned command system convictions.

[Lennys Tap]

I am shocked your wife, a rational free market laissez faire capitalist, would tolerate your centrally planned command system convictions.

C'mon, Crash. Chico only abdicates his free market principles in "special" cases - like when he or one of his comrades is a commissar on the planning committee.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am shocked your wife, a rational free market laissez faire capitalist, would tolerate your centrally planned command system convictions.

She's a social conservative, I should have clarified. 

She's also a huge Green Bay Packers fan and she realizes a "centrally planned" sports league like the NFL is good idea.  Just as she knows, like her husband, that's not universal across all of industry.

[Hards Alumni]

That part is the key.  There are people that fundamentally are lazy, don't want to do jack squat and there are those that want to work, innovate, create, risk, etc....those people are not rewarded in that situation.  We already have enough of this nonsense going on here where we pay people to stay unemployed, provide additional funding for extra kids, etc.  What could possibly go wrong?

I guess we could always go back to the days of slave wages and orphanages.  That was a lot better.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I guess we could always go back to the days of slave wages and orphanages.  That was a lot better.

As if that is the alternative, which it clearly isn't.

Saw the reports out today, underemployment soars to over 14% while 47.3% of adults have a full time job. 

Maybe it's the cynic in me with some of family in Ohio and Michigan who game the system, freely admitting it, to get out of having to do a lot of work if they can get by just fine being subsidized.

[Hards Alumni]

As if that is the alternative, which it clearly isn't.

Saw the reports out today, underemployment soars to over 14% while 47.3% of adults have a full time job. 

Maybe it's the cynic in me with some of family in Ohio and Michigan who game the system, freely admitting it, to get out of having to do a lot of work if they can get by just fine being subsidized.

I was just meeting nonsense with nonsense.  Sorry.