Game of Thrones fans here?

[LON]

Sucks that you're being forced to watch.

Oh spare me. I said it before I would watch and complain. Ignore me. I’m not attacking your stance or opinions.

[Coleman]

Are they going to be handling the spin offs?

I sincerely hope not.

[mu03eng]

Arya: I have to go see a man about a horse.

This is how I tell people that I need to use the restroom on the golf course.

[Spotcheck Billy]

[brewcity77]

While I agree the season seems rushed  (well, because it is), if you really think Danaerys becoming a mad queen was sudden, you haven't been paying attention. The GIF I posted above is, I believe, from season 2.
- also in season 2, she promised to "lay waste to our enemies and burn their cities to the ground" (Sound familiar?)
- she torched the Khals
- she fed some leaders of Mereen to her dragons and had to be talked out of doing worse
- she torched the Tarlys
- and the show has hit us over the head to make sure we understand there's at least a 50-50 chance any Targaryen would be mad
I'm sure there are other examples, but the point is this was not a sudden or unexpected transformation.

The difference for me is that this was mass innocents. Torching the Khals, the leaders of Mereen, and the Tarlys, even Varys, those were all either executions or the leaders of her enemies. If she did the same to Cersei, no problem. But there was nothing in her character to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands (conservatively) of commoners in King's Landing after the battle was won. That's not a slight turn, that's a 720° Exorcist level turn. If they wanted to foreshadow wanton destruction, they could've done it over the years, this was completely unprecedented.

[Jockey]

This. 7.5 seasons of a full character arc/change, undone in 10 minutes

Maybe....

but, the show started with Jamie and Cersei, in a tower by themselves, setting the entire chain of events in place. It is fitting that they die together  in a tunnel - by themselves.

They started and ended the same way - sneaking away.

[Pakuni]

The difference for me is that this was mass innocents. Torching the Khals, the leaders of Mereen, and the Tarlys, even Varys, those were all either executions or the leaders of her enemies. If she did the same to Cersei, no problem. But there was nothing in her character to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands (conservatively) of commoners in King's Landing after the battle was won. That's not a slight turn, that's a 720° Exorcist level turn. If they wanted to foreshadow wanton destruction, they could've done it over the years, this was completely unprecedented.

Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

[LON]

Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

Who in this season put all of that on hold to save the realms of men.  Then, to steal from someone else, channels a hypothetical Truman dropping a 3rd nuke on Japan for funsies.

[brewcity77]

So what are people's predictions for the final episode?

• Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.
• Arya will try to kill Dany and fail. Dany will execute her. I feel Arya has to die because she's become the hero of the story and she's probably the one character whose death no one is expecting.
• Jon will lose it with Arya's death; she was always his favorite of the Starks. He will kill Dany, then refuse the throne.
• With no Targaryean heir, Gendry Baratheon, now the lawful heir of Robert, will take the throne.
• Sansa will die. Not sure how or by whose hand, but I think she dies. That's why in the pre-season trailer, Jon's statue was of an old man while Sansa & Arya still looked young.

[Pakuni]

So what are people's predictions for the final episode?

• Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.
• Arya will try to kill Dany and fail. Dany will execute her. I feel Arya has to die because she's become the hero of the story and she's probably the one character whose death no one is expecting.
• Jon will lose it with Arya's death; she was always his favorite of the Starks. He will kill Dany, then refuse the throne.
• With no Targaryean heir, Gendry Baratheon, now the lawful heir of Robert, will take the throne.
• Sansa will die. Not sure how or by whose hand, but I think she dies. That's why in the pre-season trailer, Jon's statue was of an old man while Sansa & Arya still looked young.

Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.

[Coleman]

• Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.

How does Dany even know Jamie was freed? He is dead.

[Galway Eagle]

Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.

can I ask why you're placing faith in the White horse prophecy when it wasn't in the show and they've shown previously that they're more than willing to toss prophecy out the door?

[Pakuni]

can I ask why you're placing faith in the White horse prophecy when it wasn't in the show and they've shown previously that they're more than willing to toss prophecy out the door?

George RR Martin didn't invent the symbolism behind the appearance of a white horse.

[Coleman]

Arya takes the throne.

Jon is King in the North.

[MUBBau]

FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.

I'm sure a lot of the actors were ready to move on from it as well. Who knows, maybe they were lucky to even get 6 more episodes from everyone.

[forgetful]

Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.

Little finger also had Green eyes (Green-grey described in books), so she may have already fulfilled that part of the prophecy.

And in the books Dany has violet eyes.

[brewcity77]

Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

In both cases, it's talking about armies, soldiers, and leaders. I get the "burn" & "dirt" references regarding cities, but this was a hard, hard turn from the rhetoric of the past.

Here's the thing...this would have been much better done if developed over seasons. If the back and forth between her and her advisors was more contentious. I have the feeling that in the books, if GRRM ever finishes them, it will be far better developed. I like the climaxes characters have had this season, I like the way they have wrapped up storylines, but I do feel the way they got to those conclusions could have been done better, and likely will done better in the books.

To me, justifying how they got there for Dany is a lot of revisionist history. This isn't Arya spending 6 years training to be the perfect killer and then killing the Night King, that makes total sense, this is someone spending years saying they would be different, would avoid tyranny, would break the wheel, & as soon as the opportunity presents itself, becoming the exact opposite of that.

[brewcity77]

How does Dany even know Jamie was freed? He is dead.

She will know Jamie was freed by his obvious lack of being present, and she will know Tyrion did it because her guards will know Tyrion was the last person who visited him. There's no other explanation for why Jamie isn't still a prisoner.

[LON]

She will know Jamie was freed by his obvious lack of being present, and she will know Tyrion did it because her guards will know Tyrion was the last person who visited him. There's no other explanation for why Jamie isn't still a prisoner.

She straight-up told Tyrion they caught him trying to get out of Winterfell, too.  It took her 5 seconds to put together that Jon told Sansa, who told Tyrion, who told Varys, that Jon is Aegon Targaryen.

[forgetful]

Maybe....

but, the show started with Jamie and Cersei, in a tower by themselves, setting the entire chain of events in place. It is fitting that they die together  in a tunnel - by themselves.

They started and ended the same way - sneaking away.

Yes, there is a cyclical aspect to this. But creating a scene simply for a callback to season 1, when it is inconsistent with the current story is not good writing. It is bad writing and bad scene design.

This would have been a perfectly fine ending if:

1. Jamie goes North to fight for the living, as promised.
2. After the battle is over, he does not make overtures towards Brienne. Instead he says he needs to return to his family. He sneaks out, or is allowed to escape by Tyrion.
3. Scene plays out as before.

As it was done, they created a redemption arc for Jamie. He abandoned Cersei entirely, recognizing her as evil. He completes this redemption by joining the most pure and honorable person on the show, Brienne. He then just abandons all of this, because his sister might actually have a chance to win??? It doesn't work.

This was done for one reason, and one reason only, executives at HBO, who listen to Q scores, insisted a Jamie/Brienne love scene would be good for ratings. They then insisted it get written into the scripts. It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

That is why the later seasons have declined in quality (in terms of writing), and part of the reason why D&D were ready for all of this to end.

[JWags85]

It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

Can't wait for all that play up and dialogue and him likely appearing nowhere in the final 2 episodes

[Hards Alumni]

Mostly, I agree with Brew's assessment.  I think the director did the best with what he was given for a script.  I also have to wonder how much was left on the editing room floor.

I think a better story than Rhaegal getting shot down by the Iron fleet last week, he could have been taken out this week by one of the scorpions... this would make Dany's descent into madness more instant and completely believable.  The way it played out was rather stupid, but hey, whatever.

All in all, I think we can see the rough outline of what GRRM told D&D.  Also, I'm sure he will do a far superior job of wrapping it up than these two doofusses.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yes, there is a cyclical aspect to this. But creating a scene simply for a callback to season 1, when it is inconsistent with the current story is not good writing. It is bad writing and bad scene design.

This would have been a perfectly fine ending if:

1. Jamie goes North to fight for the living, as promised.
2. After the battle is over, he does not make overtures towards Brienne. Instead he says he needs to return to his family. He sneaks out, or is allowed to escape by Tyrion.
3. Scene plays out as before.

As it was done, they created a redemption arc for Jamie. He abandoned Cersei entirely, recognizing her as evil. He completes this redemption by joining the most pure and honorable person on the show, Brienne. He then just abandons all of this, because his sister might actually have a chance to win??? It doesn't work.

This was done for one reason, and one reason only, executives at HBO, who listen to Q scores, insisted a Jamie/Brienne love scene would be good for ratings. They then insisted it get written into the scripts. It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

That is why the later seasons have declined in quality (in terms of writing), and part of the reason why D&D were ready for all of this to end.

Jamie didn't go back because he thought Cersei might have a chance to win.

[jesmu84]

I heard an interesting description/interpretation of this season (and maybe last):

This is the video wiki of the story. Hitting the overtones/big entries/battles. Giving the cliff notes, but leaving out all the details and the background/plot on how we got to these "high notes". They skim over a lot of time/inteludes

Much like Nikolai's quote: "We’re used to having a whole season to get to a point. Now suddenly, a lot of things happen very quickly."

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The Bob Newhart ending?