MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 02:03:06 AM

Title: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 02:03:06 AM
Went to the premier tonight for season 3.  It's terrific again...really great.  The cast spoke, the writers, director, etc...another great year if you are a G.O.T. fan.  The dragons are growing up. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2013, 05:33:52 AM
Just got season 2 on DVD haven't watched it yet.

Also am rereading the books,amazing how much you miss
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2013, 06:44:38 AM
Went to the premier tonight for season 3.  It's terrific again...really great.  The cast spoke, the writers, director, etc...another great year if you are a G.O.T. fan.  The dragons are growing up. 


Lucky man.  Can't wait for #3.

Winter is coming......
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on March 19, 2013, 07:21:13 AM
If you live in the upper Midwest, winter's never leaving. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on March 19, 2013, 08:02:13 AM
Excited for this season, looks like it could be great based on the trailer.  Last season was painfully slow, though I heard it was kind of a set up for things to come.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 09:07:46 AM
Lucky man.  Can't wait for #3.

Winter is coming......

I never knew Kahlisse is actually a brunette.  http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-pics-season-3-premiere/#ref=/2013/03/19/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-premiere-season-3-pics/pos=

The tall woman in season 2 (Gwen Christie), the knight...wow, real life she is every bit that tall.  I would say 6'3" or so

Lena Headley is smoking hot in real life...also a brunette..  Stana Katic also there. 

The one that surprised me the most is Michelle Fairley, who plays Catelyn Stark.  She looks so haggard on the show with makeup.  She is much more attractive in person than I would have gathered.  

A lot of fun.  I'm a geek for the show so I was like a kid in a candy store at the after party. Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) was there, Kit Harrington (Rob Snow) and a host of others.  They had the iron throne on display along with some very cool props.  Good times.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on March 19, 2013, 09:17:43 AM
I never knew Kahlisse is actually a brunette.

And even hotter as one too.

The actress that plays Robb Stark's wife is also smokin'.  She's Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Seraph on March 19, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
I can't quite figure out where season 3 will end.  The red wedding seems like a good finale.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on March 19, 2013, 09:38:37 AM
I can't quite figure out where season 3 will end.  The red wedding seems like a good finale.  Thoughts?

You post spoilers you die.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on March 19, 2013, 09:42:15 AM
http://www.imdb.com/list/2of6ofdWndc/?ref_=hm_3p_vi2#lb-1

New trailer
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2013, 10:01:45 AM
http://devour.com/video/game-of-thrones-season-3-trailer-2/

Can't stop watching.

Edit: nyg beat me to it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 10:02:34 AM
Excited for this season, looks like it could be great based on the trailer.  Last season was painfully slow, though I heard it was kind of a set up for things to come.

I actually liked last season and the wildfire episode was epic.

Episode 1 of this year is not heavy on action, though there is some, but you can see the setup coming for the rest of the year.  They gave us a sneakpeak of the rest of the year and people were going nuts...these are Hollywood types going nuts, not just regular fans. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 19, 2013, 10:12:28 AM
I can't quite figure out where season 3 will end.  The red wedding seems like a good finale.  Thoughts?

Dude.  Shut the hell up.  Some people haven't read the books that enjoy the show only.  Personally, I've read all the books and think that the TV show does a pretty good job.  It is extremely entertaining and I can't wait for the 31st.

If you're just watching the show I HIGHLY recommend reading the novels as well.  You find out a lot more in the novels (obviously).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on March 19, 2013, 10:39:24 AM
Speaking of Game of Thrones, here is the mashup with Princess Bride and GoT. Spoiler alert regarding Season One.

http://youtu.be/AFOXCfoKO1k (http://youtu.be/AFOXCfoKO1k)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on March 19, 2013, 11:52:16 AM
Just finished the first Book (Game of Thrones) looking forward to starting the 2nd. I completely love it

I found the book to be more enjoyable than the TV series except the additional boobs in the TV show offers. I think there is an added depth to the characters that the show glosses over or misses
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 19, 2013, 01:32:27 PM
I never knew Kahlisse is actually a brunette.  http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-pics-season-3-premiere/#ref=/2013/03/19/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-premiere-season-3-pics/pos=


Funny, I never noticed her hair before.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on March 19, 2013, 03:26:54 PM
Love G.O.T. Psyched for the season.

Usually, I can talk my wife into watching "my" shows. She's even learned to love Sons of Anarchy, which is the opposite of a chick show. But for some reason I can't convince her to watch this. I do know she hates British accents, so maybe that's it. (But she likes James Bond, so maybe not.)

Oh well, her loss.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
Love G.O.T. Psyched for the season.

Usually, I can talk my wife into watching "my" shows. She's even learned to love Sons of Anarchy, which is the opposite of a chick show. But for some reason I can't convince her to watch this. I do know she hates British accents, so maybe that's it. (But she likes James Bond, so maybe not.)

Oh well, her loss.

Same here.  It's why I didn't take my wife last night and took a friend who is a major geek on G.O.T.   He got a lot more out of it then she would have. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on March 19, 2013, 04:22:28 PM
toeing the line here between teasers and spoilers depending your view: http://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/24-things-we-learned-from-the-cast-and-crew-of-game-of-thron

Seriously though, don't go on wikipedia or any Ice and Fire-pedia's if you dont want it ruined
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on March 19, 2013, 04:43:25 PM
Guess I'll have to wait a few weeks and grab season 3 on bit torrent like the 1st two seasons
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: akmarq on March 19, 2013, 05:11:43 PM
Guess I'll have to wait a few weeks and grab season 3 on bit torrent like the 1st two seasons

Seriously. If HBO would just create a way for me to give them money I would. I'm hoping that Netflix producing original content will make them realize that selling HBO GO as a standalone is a good idea.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUFC9295 on March 19, 2013, 06:51:48 PM
My friend once turned off the last part of a Packer loss and said they were going to watch "the boob show."  It sounded good enough for me to try! I started one following Saturday morning and was through season 2 by Sunday evening.  The wife and child may have been neglected a bit, but eventually my wife caught on and we're both excited for season 3.  Just good storytelling.  I have to imagine the books are fascinating.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 07:09:18 PM
Seriously. If HBO would just create a way for me to give them money I would. I'm hoping that Netflix producing original content will make them realize that selling HBO GO as a standalone is a good idea.

Actually a horrible idea and they've said why on many occasions.  They would lose their arse.  Today, they don't deal with acquiring customers, servicing customers (call centers, etc, etc), infrastructure, etc

This is a simple math exercise and they come out losing if they do.  If HBO could make more money, they would do it.  They can't, which is why they don't.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on March 19, 2013, 07:32:56 PM
Actually a horrible idea and they've said why on many occasions.  They would lose their arse.  Today, they don't deal with acquiring customers, servicing customers (call centers, etc, etc), infrastructure, etc

This is a simple math exercise and they come out losing if they do.  If HBO could make more money, they would do it.  They can't, which is why they don't.



Would it be that difficult to make HBOGo a pay site/app?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on March 19, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
Just watched the first two seasons in the last two weeks. Can't wait for the new season to start. I plan on reading the books but only so far as they have made episodes for, don't really want to spoil the show by knowing what's coming next. Walking Dead season finale is the day season 3 premiers so my Sunday nights will still be spent in front of the tv.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 19, 2013, 08:02:28 PM
Would it be that difficult to make HBOGo a pay site/app?

Yes because all of us doing the heavy lifting for HBO would scream bloody murder.  We have to incur the 20,000 agents, the billing, the marketing, etc.

That's the dilemma for them.  They have 29 million subscribers that they don't bill or service today.  Tremendous cost they avoid
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on March 21, 2013, 10:41:46 PM
Yes because all of us doing the heavy lifting for HBO would scream bloody murder.  We have to incur the 20,000 agents, the billing, the marketing, etc.

That's the dilemma for them.  They have 29 million subscribers that they don't bill or service today.  Tremendous cost they avoid

Or maybe it wouldn't be that difficult....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/hbo-go-without-cable_n_2926926.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 11:25:17 PM
Or maybe it wouldn't be that difficult....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/hbo-go-without-cable_n_2926926.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Headline doesn't come close to fitting the article....typical Huff Post

"We would have to make the math work," he added."

There are billions of dollars generated from HBO's existing distribution network and to simply circumvent that would not make business sense, Plepler said in January, according to the Wall Street Journal.


That's the key, and they know today the math doesn't work.  They'll find out even harder it doesn't work when cable, telco and satellite sever their deals and since so many people that subscribe to the HBO service don't have broadband, they would be leaving hundreds of millions on the table and very irate customers.  The margins on HBO are very small, the distributors would walk away in a heartbeat.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 04, 2013, 12:44:03 PM
I never knew Kahlisse is actually a brunette.  http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-pics-season-3-premiere/#ref=/2013/03/19/game-of-thrones-red-carpet-premiere-season-3-pics/pos=

The tall woman in season 2 (Gwen Christie), the knight...wow, real life she is every bit that tall.  I would say 6'3" or so

Lena Headley is smoking hot in real life...also a brunette..  Stana Katic also there. 

The one that surprised me the most is Michelle Fairley, who plays Catelyn Stark.  She looks so haggard on the show with makeup.  She is much more attractive in person than I would have gathered.  

A lot of fun.  I'm a geek for the show so I was like a kid in a candy store at the after party. Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) was there, Kit Harrington (Rob Snow) and a host of others.  They had the iron throne on display along with some very cool props.  Good times.

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/lena-headey-broke-game-thrones-queen-cersei-less-142000944-us-weekly.html

Quick Chicos, dump the wife and support Lena!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 28, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
So, halfway through the season now.  How's everyone liking it? 


[no book spoilers or your typing hands will suffer the fate of Kingslayer's right hand]
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 28, 2013, 11:34:53 PM
So, halfway through the season now.  How's everyone liking it? 


[no book spoilers or your typing hands will suffer the fate of Kingslayer's right hand]

I love it.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 29, 2013, 06:41:37 AM
The season has been a bit slower than past, but the writers are setting things up for some huge plot twists regarding all the characters.  Things will change dramatically soon.

The acting is outstanding and last night's interaction between Jamie and Brienne in the baths was Emmy worthy acting as was Tryon telling Cersai and Tyrion that that have to marry Sansa and Lord Tyrell to gain control of the Seven Kingdoms.  HBO's work effort in everything, including the actors, set design, costumes, etc. is first class and rivals bigtime movies. 

Chapman:  No spoiler here, but I believe the finale (or close to) will be the "Red Wedding", which is a game changer, off the charts, holy sh*t moment.  I have read the books, so do not, repeat do not, WIKI anything regarding the show. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2013, 06:47:08 AM
So, halfway through the season now.  How's everyone liking it? 


[no book spoilers or your typing hands will suffer the fate of Kingslayer's right hand]

Haven't watched last night's episode yet, but it's been pretty good. No spoilers, but the book this season is based on is, in my opinion, by far the best of the series. There have been rumors they are breaking the third book up into two seasons, which is disappointing because there is so much I want to see happen this year.

My only disappointment actually goes back to last season. In the books, the first time Daenaerys uses the "Dracarys" command is in the slave city, not with the warlocks in Qarth. As awesome as the moment with the Unsullied was, it was fall-out-of-the-chair amazing when Dani capped the incident with "Dracarys". A bit dampened with the whole warlock side story last year (that departed completely from the books).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 29, 2013, 07:07:39 AM
Chapman:  No spoiler here, but I believe the finale (or close to) will be the "Red Wedding", which is a game changer, off the charts, holy sh*t moment.  I have read the books, so do not, repeat do not, WIKI anything regarding the show. 

There are actually two wikis, which is really cool.  Game of Thrones Wiki only covers the show so it's very useful for getting background, the related A Song of Ice and Fire wiki covers the books so I avoid that one.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 29, 2013, 07:33:49 AM
There are actually two wikis, which is really cool.  Game of Thrones Wiki only covers the show so it's very useful for getting background, the related A Song of Ice and Fire wiki covers the books so I avoid that one.

OK, but avoid that other one for sure.

Get back to this thread in a few weeks after the "Red Wedding" and your thoughts. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2013, 08:11:59 AM
OK, but avoid that other one for sure.

Get back to this thread in a few weeks after the "Red Wedding" and your thoughts. 

Seriously, even speaking that name is a huge spoiler.  Really dirty move.  If you watch the shows you shouldn't even come to this thread.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on April 29, 2013, 11:16:01 AM
There are actually two wikis, which is really cool.  Game of Thrones Wiki only covers the show so it's very useful for getting background, the related A Song of Ice and Fire wiki covers the books so I avoid that one.

IGN has a phone ap that helps you follow along. Works with the show much better than the book.
Incredibly helpful since it breaks down the book/show differences throughout the season, offers and episode guide and character wiki
HBO's map is probably the best I've seen as well.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 29, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
The season has been a bit slower than past, but the writers are setting things up for some huge plot twists regarding all the characters.  Things will change dramatically soon.

The acting is outstanding and last night's interaction between Jamie and Brienne in the baths was Emmy worthy acting as was Tryon telling Cersai and Tyrion that that have to marry Sansa and Lord Tyrell to gain control of the Seven Kingdoms.  HBO's work effort in everything, including the actors, set design, costumes, etc. is first class and rivals bigtime movies. 

Chapman:  No spoiler here, but I believe the finale (or close to) will be the "Red Wedding", which is a game changer, off the charts, holy sh*t moment.  I have read the books, so do not, repeat do not, WIKI anything regarding the show. 

Correct...I was able to see some of the future episodes and I think you will continue to enjoy.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 29, 2013, 07:38:40 PM
HBO sent me some Dragon Eggs and a cauldron to hold them....and a shot glass...they must know. 

(http://i43.tinypic.com/25u338o.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2013, 09:32:12 PM
I have especially enjoyed the last two episodes, especially the 4/21 show. Edge-of-my-seat stuff. Agree wholeheartedly that the bath scene and the Tryon-Cersai-Tyrion in this week's episode were outstanding.

A fun, addictive, typically fantastic HBO production.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mueron on May 01, 2013, 06:04:48 AM
For those who have read the books, I understand they are splitting A Storm of Swords over this season and next (which actually makes sense to me). How do you think they'll handle A Feast for Crows? Will they let it stand alone or will they sort of blend it with A Dance With Dragons over a couple seasons of the show? Speak in general terms so as not to spoil. But seriously if you haven't read the books get off your unnatural carnal knowledgein lazy ass and ream em. Read em in the crapter if you have to.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2013, 08:59:50 AM
For those who have read the books, I understand they are splitting A Storm of Swords over this season and next (which actually makes sense to me). How do you think they'll handle A Feast for Crows? Will they let it stand alone or will they sort of blend it with A Dance With Dragons over a couple seasons of the show? Speak in general terms so as not to spoil. But seriously if you haven't read the books get off your unnatural carnal knowledgein lazy ass and ream em. Read em in the crapter if you have to.

I'm sure they will blend the stories.  No one wants to see certain characters missing for a couple of seasons.  Also, ADWD and AFFC take place during the same time.  What we will probably see is 4-5 seasons from those two books.  The timelines will be different from the books.  And it could be 4 or 5 depending on how far GRRM is with TWOW.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on May 01, 2013, 09:04:53 AM
I'm sure they will blend the stories.  No one wants to see certain characters missing for a couple of seasons.  Also, ADWD and AFFC take place during the same time.  What we will probably see is 4-5 seasons from those two books.  The timelines will be different from the books.  And it could be 4 or 5 depending on how far GRRM is with TWOW.

The producers have said it's very likely the show overtakes the books since the general plot is developed and they won't stall the series for GRRM to finish writing.  Given the many poor reviews for books 4-5 with "bloated" and "lack of plot movement" being the criticisms I'm reading it would seem they'll probably be more like two seasons to get a good pace out of them.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on May 01, 2013, 02:47:35 PM
I tend to think the 3rd book needs to be split into two TV seasons if only to allow enough time for Martin to finish writing the last 2.

Killing me on his time frame to write a book.  Come on MAN!  At the same time I enjoy them enough that I can be patient so that they are as good as the first 5.

And I know the way it is set now, the TV show shouldn't overtake the books, but....Martin has been known to push back his books release a year at a time.

Also read somewhere that Martin has told the shows producers enough of the story highlights for the last two books that if he should pass away before he is done writing them all that they will be able to continue the show as he had envisioned it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 01, 2013, 03:09:56 PM
Seriously, even speaking that name is a huge spoiler.  Really dirty move.  If you watch the shows you shouldn't even come to this thread.

+1

Does this site have spoiler tags? Because stuff like that should be hidden, if posted at all.

As far as pacing, I heard that ASOS will be done over two seasons. It makes sense, as we're half done and I don't think near halfway through what goes on in that book.

AFFC and ADWD will be done simultaneously, they also announced that. As mentioned, you don't want to see popular characters vanish from the storyline for a season and a half. Look at what they're doing with Theon...providing more insight into what happens to him during this time period even though it wasn't covered in the book. Also, AFFC and ADWD are supposed to take place over 3 seasons I believe. So the timeline should look something like this...

Season 1 (2011): AGOT
Season 2 (2012): ACOK
Season 3 (2013): ASOS Part 1
Season 4 (2014): ASOS Part 2
Season 5 (2015): AFFC/ADWD Part 1
Season 6 (2016): AFFC/ADWD Part 2
Season 7 (2017): AFFC/ADWD Part 3
Season 8 (2018): TWOW Part 1
Season 9 (2019): TWOW Part 2
Season 10 (2020): ADOS

I would guess we'll see TWOW come out around 2016-17, giving Martin enough time to have that done before the shows based on that book airs. Can he get ADOS done by 2020? It'll be tough at his current pace. He has shared plot points with the creators of the show in case he doesn't survive to see out writing the final book.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on May 01, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
I don't think they're overly concerned with the pace of the books.  Wouldn't be surprised to see 4 seasons for 4 books and ending after 8, or ending on a different note that doesn't cover everything since the producers have said they do not want to go ten seasons.  Guess we'll see what the current momentum does to their plans, but I'd expect things (ratings) to come back down to earth eventually.

http://io9.com/what-happens-when-em-game-of-thrones-em-runs-out-of-453871355

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/733391b81766bfd12a6c8b822aaf099b.png)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on May 01, 2013, 04:47:10 PM
I have especially enjoyed the last two episodes, especially the 4/21 show. Edge-of-my-seat stuff. Agree wholeheartedly that the bath scene and the Tryon-Cersai-Tyrion in this week's episode were outstanding.

A fun, addictive, typically fantastic HBO production.

Khaleesi is a badass.  Admittedly not the greatest actor but her character intrigues me.  I thought the Starks would be the characters I would be "rooting for" in this show but I have come to admire Khaleesi and hope she regains her throne.  I also find myself aligning with Jaime Lannister.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2013, 05:56:48 PM
Khaleesi is a badass.  Admittedly not the greatest actor but her character intrigues me.  I thought the Starks would be the characters I would be "rooting for" in this show but I have come to admire Khaleesi and hope she regains her throne.  I also find myself aligning with Jaime Lannister.

Something I find very interesting is that people who watch the show only refer to her as Khaleesi.  People who have read the books tend to call her Dany or Daneyrs
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on May 01, 2013, 06:01:14 PM
Something I find very interesting is that people who watch the show only refer to her as Khaleesi.  People who have read the books tend to call her Dany or Daneyrs

As someone who only watches the show, it's because Iain Glen constantly refers to her as this.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 06:18:47 PM
Khaleesi is a badass.  Admittedly not the greatest actor but her character intrigues me.  I thought the Starks would be the characters I would be "rooting for" in this show but I have come to admire Khaleesi and hope she regains her throne.  I also find myself aligning with Jaime Lannister.

Even more of a badass in person.  Brunette as well.  She was quite stunning.


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KrKFgYDxp04/UUhb9MwKt9I/AAAAAAAAqzk/6a3eZMsGTlQ/s1600/163975351.jpg)


Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on May 01, 2013, 08:03:23 PM
Wow Chicos I was unaware she was a brunette.  Stunning indeed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on May 02, 2013, 10:44:45 AM
Even more of a badass in person.  Brunette as well.  She was quite stunning.


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KrKFgYDxp04/UUhb9MwKt9I/AAAAAAAAqzk/6a3eZMsGTlQ/s1600/163975351.jpg)




weird shoulder bones
2/10 would not bang
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 02, 2013, 11:00:33 AM
weird shoulder bones
2/10 would not bang

You must never get laid.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on May 03, 2013, 03:58:35 PM
Wow Chicos I was unaware she was a brunette.  Stunning indeed.

Watch the show, eyebrows are a give away.  (or so my wife says) I was looking at anything else.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 06, 2013, 11:18:32 AM
Khaleesi (Emilia Clarke) was Seth MacFarlane's squeeze for a while. He dumped her a couple months ago, which just goes to show there's no accounting for taste.

He's lucky she doesn't sick her dragons on him.

I love saying "Khaleesi" and I haven't read the books. So, for me, Khaleesi it is!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2013, 09:21:18 AM
Khaleesi (Emilia Clarke) was Seth MacFarlane's squeeze for a while. He dumped her a couple months ago, which just goes to show there's no accounting for taste.

He's lucky she doesn't sick her dragons on him.

I love saying "Khaleesi" and I haven't read the books. So, for me, Khaleesi it is!!

Beauty isn't everything. ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: 77ncaachamps on May 11, 2013, 08:05:05 PM
Please keep this a SPOILER-LESS thread.

I enjoy reading the shared posts of GOT love.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 23, 2013, 04:36:28 PM
I love saying "Khaleesi" and I haven't read the books. So, for me, Khaleesi it is!!

Khaleesi is actually her title rather than her name.  Khaleesi is the feminine form of Khol (as in Khol Drogo).  Khol is effectively Khan or King, and Khaleesi is Queen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on May 23, 2013, 04:39:12 PM
GOT takes a week off, but fans on the board.....do not miss the 6/2/13 episode (only 2 episodes left)  Things start happening big time. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2013, 05:34:51 PM
Khaleesi is actually her title rather than her name.  Khaleesi is the feminine form of Khol (as in Khol Drogo).  Khol is effectively Khan or King, and Khaleesi is Queen.

OK. I also sometimes call the president "President," my doctor "Doc," and the guy who captained our Maui adventure trip "Captain."

Again ...

Khaleesi it is!!!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on May 24, 2013, 02:46:32 PM
Khaleesi is actually her title rather than her name.  Khaleesi is the feminine form of Khol (as in Khol Drogo).  Khol is effectively Khan or King, and Khaleesi is Queen.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uNfdJnKhdAg/T_SBGUdZ1rI/AAAAAAAAFCs/uQGjpl2YDMc/s1600/Nerd+alert.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2013, 02:58:37 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uNfdJnKhdAg/T_SBGUdZ1rI/AAAAAAAAFCs/uQGjpl2YDMc/s1600/Nerd+alert.gif)

oh yeah, well its actually Khal Drago, not Khol.  BOOM out nerded!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 04:04:14 PM
OK. I also sometimes call the president "President," my doctor "Doc," and the guy who captained our Maui adventure trip "Captain."



I have some names for those folks, too. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Steve Buscemi on June 03, 2013, 07:43:30 AM
Anyone else watch last night? That was brutal.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on June 03, 2013, 07:55:00 AM
That my friends was "The Red Wedding".....  Just wait......

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu-rara on June 03, 2013, 08:00:42 AM
Anyone else watch last night? That was brutal.
Should have suspected something like this.  Ned Stark's beheading was a surprise when it happened.    When does King Joffrey catch a bone up his arse?

I guess nobody has a long term contract.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 03, 2013, 11:07:57 AM
I only read the first book.  Last night's episode was brutal.   Did not see it coming until just a couple of minutes before the fun started, and I usually spot plot twists a mile away.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 03, 2013, 11:53:19 AM
I only read the first book.  Last night's episode was brutal.   Did not see it coming until just a couple of minutes before the fun started, and I usually spot plot twists a mile away.

D and DB did a really good job with it.  They didn't throw it all over the previews last week which really helped.  As someone who read the books, I think it was captured pretty perfectly, and I couldn't sit still (was watching with my SIL so I had to stay tight lipped).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Ari Gold on June 03, 2013, 01:27:22 PM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/best-tumblr-reactions-to-game-of-thrones-red-wedding

and

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/steps-to-get-over-your-game-of-thrones-sadness
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on June 03, 2013, 02:26:49 PM
D and DB did a really good job with it.  They didn't throw it all over the previews last week which really helped.  As someone who read the books, I think it was captured pretty perfectly, and I couldn't sit still (was watching with my SIL so I had to stay tight lipped).

I agree, especially with the limited time they actually have to place it on film.  There was supposed to be a certain scene with Robb Stark and his direwolf (after wedding) that I thought they would put in, maybe next week in the finale's opening scenes. 

Looking forward to other's opinions when additional shockers happen during course of show, but RW was the pinnacle. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 04, 2013, 10:08:09 AM
They definitely went all out.  Thought the change from the books to make Robb's wife pregnant was to try to make the massacre more forgivable by giving him an hier...the first stab of the night killed that thought.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2013, 01:10:09 AM
All I can say is....just wait....more to come
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 06, 2013, 06:23:21 AM
All I can say is....just wait....more to come

In terms of what?  Two more books of content?  As far as the pinnacle of the series, the RW is the most jaw dropping, book throwing moment you will see.  Nothing in the books has come close because once the RW happens, you realize that literally anyone can die at any time.

Its a great show, a better book series, but no one will ever be shocked like that again.  Well, maybe in a few years.... maybe. ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on June 06, 2013, 07:06:47 AM
Listen to Grantland podcast, two of their TV guys have only watched the series, and not read the books (like myself) theorized for the TV show to continue Benioff and Weiss may need to take more creative licensing to the story to make it more digestable for the TV viewer, which for folks like me, and probably 80% of the viewers (who have only watched the show and not read) would be fine by me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 06, 2013, 07:30:55 AM
Listen to Grantland podcast, two of their TV guys have only watched the series, and not read the books (like myself) theorized for the TV show to continue Benioff and Weiss may need to take more creative licensing to the story to make it more digestable for the TV viewer, which for folks like me, and probably 80% of the viewers (who have only watched the show and not read) would be fine by me.

And I actually look forward to it.  Based on the often tediousness nature of the last two books and how most of their changes to streamline the plot have been very well done, I'm confident they can pull them off without missing the point.   

GRRM was on Conan last night, and said the next book could come out sooner rather than later.  Also looking forward to "The World of Ice and Fire: The Official History of Westeros and The World of A Game of Throne" book that is supposed to be out before Season 4.  GRRM was supposed to just provide a little detail and some notes, but got carried away and the thing supposedly more than doubled in size. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2013, 09:01:05 AM
In terms of what?  Two more books of content?  As far as the pinnacle of the series, the RW is the most jaw dropping, book throwing moment you will see.  Nothing in the books has come close because once the RW happens, you realize that literally anyone can die at any time.

Its a great show, a better book series, but no one will ever be shocked like that again.  Well, maybe in a few years.... maybe. ;)

In my view that was established in book one when Ned was killed....anyone can die and does.  Red Wedding was just part deux and more voluminous.  To each their own, in my view there are some more moments coming that are equally brutal, surprising, etc.  Again, to each their own.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 06, 2013, 09:12:20 AM
Listen to Grantland podcast, two of their TV guys have only watched the series, and not read the books (like myself) theorized for the TV show to continue Benioff and Weiss may need to take more creative licensing to the story to make it more digestable for the TV viewer, which for folks like me, and probably 80% of the viewers (who have only watched the show and not read) would be fine by me.

It is very easy for two guys who haven't read the books to opine about what D&D will have to do. :-P  There is plenty of content... sure GRRM did drag out AFFC and ADWD, but if D&D take the best of those two books they can easily make an interesting season from each... possibly 3 (I sure hope they don't go for 4 from those two books unless two or three episodes are only about food).

I think the main problem is that after next season the next two or three (AFFC and ADWD) seasons will all be build ups, and will lack any of the punch of season 3 and 4.

Chicos. I agree with you, but I think the RW was the pinnacle... As rough as it was on TV, the book was far more brutal.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 06, 2013, 09:27:14 AM


Chicos. I agree with you, but I think the RW was the pinnacle... As rough as it was on TV, the book was far more brutal.

Agree.  End of book 5 is going to get many folks riled up.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 07, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
Agree.  End of book 5 is going to get many folks riled up.   

I still think the RW is the pinnacle. Not only does it signal that anyone can die, but it completely terminates the primary plot (Stark v Lannister) of the first three books.

Also, related to the books / show overlap, I read that the TV producers only plan on doing seven seasons worth of the show. Given that book three is two TV seasons with some additional character development (like Theon/Reek), I fully expect books four & five to get condensed down. I also expect parts of book four to start getting introduced into the next TV season.

Finally, D&B have been told how the series is supposed to end. Just keep that in mind
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on June 07, 2013, 10:32:46 AM
I still think the RW is the pinnacle. Not only does it signal that anyone can die, but it completely terminates the primary plot (Stark v Lannister) of the first three books.

Also, related to the books / show overlap, I read that the TV producers only plan on doing seven seasons worth of the show. Given that book three is two TV seasons with some additional character development (like Theon/Reek), I fully expect books four & five to get condensed down. I also expect parts of book four to start getting introduced into the next TV season.

Finally, D&B have been told how the series is supposed to end. Just keep that in mind

I'll just say that I disagree about the Stark vs. Lannister plot being dead.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mugrad2006 on June 07, 2013, 11:22:38 AM
I've really enjoyed the show, and actually got the wife into watching it as well which is really surprising because she doesn't watch any other fantasy/sci fi/history fiction in show or movie form. Unfortunately, the very graphic nature to the end of the Red Wedding has completely turned her off and I'll be forced to DVR and fight for TV time by myself going forward. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 07, 2013, 11:27:27 AM
I'll just say that I disagree about the Stark vs. Lannister plot being dead.

What makes you say that?

In the show:
Ned, Cat, and Robb are dead. Jon Snow is with the Wildlings. Arya is with the Hound. Sansa is useless. Bran is going north. Rickon is more useless than Sansa.

Which remaining Stark has the capabilities, resources, or commitment to take down the Lannisters?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu-rara on June 07, 2013, 12:01:17 PM
What makes you say that?

In the show:
Ned, Cat, and Robb are dead. Jon Snow is with the Wildlings. Arya is with the Hound. Sansa is useless. Bran is going north. Rickon is more useless than Sansa.

Which remaining Stark has the capabilities, resources, or commitment to take down the Lannisters?
I think the obvious choice is Jon Snow, but this show has been anything but obvious.  Let's say Bran and Tyrion end up ruling Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on June 07, 2013, 01:12:10 PM
What makes you say that?

In the show:
Ned, Cat, and Robb are dead. Jon Snow is with the Wildlings. Arya is with the Hound. Sansa is useless. Bran is going north. Rickon is more useless than Sansa.

Which remaining Stark has the capabilities, resources, or commitment to take down the Lannisters?

Arya's constant nightly hit list recital, also, Jon Snow is no longer with the Wildlings, and Bran seems destined for more than sitting up in the North.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 07, 2013, 02:02:23 PM
Arya's constant nightly hit list recital, also, Jon Snow is no longer with the Wildlings, and Bran seems destined for more than sitting up in the North.

Okay, I understand your perspective.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: HoopsMalone on June 09, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
I think the Starks position is stronger than most people think.  Winterfell is still very valuable.  If Bran can control animals, then that is a pretty useful power to have when dragons ultimately are thrown into the mix in Westeros at some point.  I am interested to see if he can control the walkers.

Dany crossing the narrow sea is going to be huge.  She has the dragons and a well trained army.  She would really only need one or two houses to join her to knock the Lannisters, Stannis, and Greyjoys out.  House Martell is a pretty obvious choice for an ally.  The Starks may be able to rise again if the play off of Dany. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 10, 2013, 12:22:57 PM
I think the Starks position is stronger than most people think.  Winterfell is still very valuable.  If Bran can control animals, then that is a pretty useful power to have when dragons ultimately are thrown into the mix in Westeros at some point.  I am interested to see if he can control the walkers.

Agree, the most powerful Starks are still very much alive, just young.  In one of the only worthwhile scenes last night we saw what Arya could be capable of now that she's had every bad thing happen to her at least once.  Bran might be able to win a war without getting out of bed.  Rickon's young but has no fear, may not be a warg but has visions (roaming the crypts after Ned died). 

Enjoyed the book vs. show interpretation of the wedding; starting with Robb meeting Jeyne/Talisa through to the wedding they really took two different approaches to telling the story, and both were well done. 

Also interested in how they pace the remaining content in a total of 7-8 seasons.  They covered over half of Storm of Swords page-wise, but what remains could definitely fill next season without going much/any further and still be better paced than this season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on June 10, 2013, 12:53:43 PM
Agree, the most powerful Starks are still very much alive, just young.  In one of the only worthwhile scenes last night we saw what Arya could be capable of now that she's had every bad thing happen to her at least once.  Bran might be able to win a war without getting out of bed.  Rickon's young but has no fear, may not be a warg but has visions (roaming the crypts after Ned died). 

Enjoyed the book vs. show interpretation of the wedding; starting with Robb meeting Jeyne/Talisa through to the wedding they really took two different approaches to telling the story, and both were well done. 

Also interested in how they pace the remaining content in a total of 7-8 seasons.  They covered over half of Storm of Swords page-wise, but what remains could definitely fill next season without going much/any further and still be better paced than this season.

I think they are going to have to combine the books into next season (Captain Obvious I know) but otherwise you are going to lose touch with some of the main characters because they don't have their viewpoints given in some of the books
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on June 10, 2013, 12:59:33 PM
Why does the show have to only be 7-8 seasons? Why can't it be 10? I think people will stay interested long enough. I'd rather see them do the books justice than try to squeeze 2-3 books into a season to fit some arbitrary deadline
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 10, 2013, 02:23:48 PM
I think they are going to have to combine the books into next season (Captain Obvious I know) but otherwise you are going to lose touch with some of the main characters because they don't have their viewpoints given in some of the books

A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons will certainly run parallel, since the timeline is mostly the same in the books as well.  Will be curious to see how much of either makes its way into season four.


Why does the show have to only be 7-8 seasons? Why can't it be 10? I think people will stay interested long enough. I'd rather see them do the books justice than try to squeeze 2-3 books into a season to fit some arbitrary deadline

I think they'll do a good job at consolidating some of the drawn out details of books 4-5 based on how they handled some of the lengthiness of plots so far.  They've been dead set on drawing out the story and banking on maintaining success for six or seven more years.  I think it's very doable to hack away at the fat in FFC and ADWD and get to 2 seasons or slightly less, but think it could be tough to fit in the last two books in 2 or less seasons and not make it seem rushed, if they're forecasted to be 1200+ pages each and with the amount of story that it seems they'll have to cover.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on June 10, 2013, 03:47:58 PM
A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons will certainly run parallel, since the timeline is mostly the same in the books as well.  Will be curious to see how much of either makes its way into season four.


I think they'll do a good job at consolidating some of the drawn out details of books 4-5 based on how they handled some of the lengthiness of plots so far.  They've been dead set on drawing out the story and banking on maintaining success for six or seven more years.  I think it's very doable to hack away at the fat in FFC and ADWD and get to 2 seasons or slightly less, but think it could be tough to fit in the last two books in 2 or less seasons and not make it seem rushed, if they're forecasted to be 1200+ pages each and with the amount of story that it seems they'll have to cover.

I agree with this, but I have also read that they are pretty dead set on being done with it in 7 seasons (I guess you might end up with an extra 8th season or maybe Season 7 part 1 and part 2 with 8 or 10 episodes each).  But they have also openly discussed how they will run into actors/actresses age problems as the people age if they don't wrap it up quickly enough, along with keeping the number of people in the cast together long enough and meeting their salary demands.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 10, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
Why does the show have to only be 7-8 seasons? Why can't it be 10? I think people will stay interested long enough. I'd rather see them do the books justice than try to squeeze 2-3 books into a season to fit some arbitrary deadline

But it is 10 episodes per season.  This gets back to MONEY again.  They put a crapload of money into this in season one, and if it failed then they would not have continued beyond season 1.  Takes awhile to build a franchise.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/b03bebb302bf3b93e7b69769b8c3922f.png)

Blue = 2011
Red = 2012
Green = 2013

So far each of the three seasons has had 10 episodes per season.


EDIT:  I misread your original post.  Thought you said 7 to 8 episodes when you said 7 to 8 seasons.  My bad.  Honestly, I can't recall a series on a paid tier like HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc that lasted that long.  It's asking a lot.  What tends to happen is a plateau effect, especially for a complicated series like GOT.  My guess is you will see it plateau a bit next year because people that have missed the first couple of years don't want to vest the time of doing all the catchup watching to understand what is going on.  We saw that with many other original series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 10, 2013, 06:15:05 PM
I'll just say that I disagree about the Stark vs. Lannister plot being dead.

And you would be right
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on June 10, 2013, 06:58:39 PM
GOT season was second highest watched program in HBO history, behind The Soprano's fifth season. No failure in this mini series.

Due to aging of actors, they may film final seasons all at once, just like Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings and what he did with The Hobbitt.

Many more twists/turns/characters/settings to come, so stay tuned.

BTW, the acting of almost every character is off the charts.  Peter Dinklage won an Emmy/Golden Globe in 2012.
Which actor/actress do you believe should get a nomination next month, or your favorite?

My choice: Charles Dance who plays Tywin Lannister.  Just unreal as the head Lannister.

Second: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau who plays Jaime Lannister.  That scene with Brienne in the bath house was rivating.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 10, 2013, 07:51:06 PM
GOT season was second highest watched program in HBO history, behind The Soprano's fifth season. No failure in this mini series.

Due to aging of actors, they may film final seasons all at once, just like Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings and what he did with The Hobbitt.

Many more twists/turns/characters/settings to come, so stay tuned.

BTW, the acting of almost every character is off the charts.  Peter Dinklage won an Emmy/Golden Globe in 2012.
Which actor/actress do you believe should get a nomination next month, or your favorite?

My choice: Charles Dance who plays Tywin Lannister.  Just unreal as the head Lannister.

Second: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau who plays Jaime Lannister.  That scene with Brienne in the bath house was rivating.



Both are great, I think that Rose Leslie is perfect as Ygritte.

I think the problem really lies in that with such a large cast the amount of money they will eventually have to spend on salary to keep actors around will explode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 10, 2013, 07:57:39 PM
Both are great, I think that Rose Leslie is perfect as Ygritte.

I think the problem really lies in that with such a large cast the amount of money they will eventually have to spend on salary to keep actors around will explode.

If they were smart, they did their deals so they are locked in with escalators based on whether the series continued beyond season 1.  I'm going to the True Blood premiere tomorrow night in Hollywood with HBO....I'll ask the question.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 10, 2013, 08:44:35 PM
If they were smart, they did their deals so they are locked in with escalators based on whether the series continued beyond season 1.  I'm going to the True Blood premiere tomorrow night in Hollywood with HBO....I'll ask the question.

It would have been great if they did.  I know The Sopranos cast got a ton of money after a few seasons... and luckily they can just write people out if they don't want to pay them.  Write Jon Snow out?  Impossible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 10, 2013, 08:54:52 PM
If they were smart, they did their deals so they are locked in with escalators based on whether the series continued beyond season 1.  I'm going to the True Blood premiere tomorrow night in Hollywood with HBO....I'll ask the question.

Seems accurate, especially since they can forecast fairly well how long someone needs to stay around.  I'd imagine the challenge with pay for actors is the "retainer" to commit them is probably somewhat high relative to the screen time needed.  Biggest cost challenge has to be all of the filming locations...Northern Ireland, Malta, Croatia, Iceland, Morocco, Scotland, and the US so far.  Cost must be brutal compared to shooting it all in a studio and moving some furniture around.  As a positive, I'd imagine HBO is seeing a few dollars from merchandise licensing, which they don't get from other shows.


Second: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau who plays Jaime Lannister.  That scene with Brienne in the bath house was rivating.

That had Emmy written all over it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 10, 2013, 09:58:50 PM
I don't get why those who have read the books enjoy watching the show knowing exactly what all the huge stunners are going to be.

Maybe it's just the sports fan in me, but I HATE knowing even what might happen. I want every episode to be like a blank canvas, the same way each athletic event is.

If I knew for certain that Tiger Woods or the Heat or the Patriots were going to win, I wouldn't bother watching the game, even to see how they do it. I refuse to watch the Olympics on tape delay. For me, it's all about getting to the stirring conclusion -- of the sporting event or of the show.

I mean, I LOVED that I had no clue that Ned Stark was going to get killed. Right up until one second before the blade cut his head off, I thought he was going to be spared. When he was killed, I was amazed/stunned/aghast/enthralled/hooked.

But hey, I guess that's just me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2013, 08:24:31 AM
I don't get why those who have read the books enjoy watching the show knowing exactly what all the huge stunners are going to be.

Maybe it's just the sports fan in me, but I HATE knowing even what might happen. I want every episode to be like a blank canvas, the same way each athletic event is.

If I knew for certain that Tiger Woods or the Heat or the Patriots were going to win, I wouldn't bother watching the game, even to see how they do it. I refuse to watch the Olympics on tape delay. For me, it's all about getting to the stirring conclusion -- of the sporting event or of the show.

I mean, I LOVED that I had no clue that Ned Stark was going to get killed. Right up until one second before the blade cut his head off, I thought he was going to be spared. When he was killed, I was amazed/stunned/aghast/enthralled/hooked.

But hey, I guess that's just me.

It isn't a sport to me.  It is more like reading all the Batman comics as a kid and then seeing them come to life on a movie screen.  Its seeing something you loved on pages entertain people on a TV screen that wouldn't normally be into that genre.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 11, 2013, 09:30:04 AM
It isn't a sport to me.  It is more like reading all the Batman comics as a kid and then seeing them come to life on a movie screen.  Its seeing something you loved on pages entertain people on a TV screen that wouldn't normally be into that genre.

A most reasonable answer, Hards. I guess there are two schools of thought to this and you and I are just in opposite schools.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 11, 2013, 06:17:30 PM
I don't get why those who have read the books enjoy watching the show knowing exactly what all the huge stunners are going to be.

Maybe it's just the sports fan in me, but I HATE knowing even what might happen. I want every episode to be like a blank canvas, the same way each athletic event is.

If I knew for certain that Tiger Woods or the Heat or the Patriots were going to win, I wouldn't bother watching the game, even to see how they do it. I refuse to watch the Olympics on tape delay. For me, it's all about getting to the stirring conclusion -- of the sporting event or of the show.

I mean, I LOVED that I had no clue that Ned Stark was going to get killed. Right up until one second before the blade cut his head off, I thought he was going to be spared. When he was killed, I was amazed/stunned/aghast/enthralled/hooked.

But hey, I guess that's just me.

So I'm a hybrid on this one.  I'm a voracious reader of many things and often read books that appear on tv or film.  Tom Clancy novels I used to love seeing on film and felt they largely held their own on the screen.  Jack Reacher...was pathetic on the screen vs the book(s).  For GOT, I'm doing the reverse, watching the series and then going back and reading the books.  That way I'm not spoiled by it.  However, having to do business with HBO on a daily basis, I know enough about the plot lines for the next few series based on the books, scripts, etc that I pretty much know what happens without having read books 3, 4 or 5 yet...I'll have book 3 done this Summer I would guess.   It also helps me to read later to fill in the gaps because the show has so many stories going on at one time and shifting from one to the next to the next that it's often difficult to follow the characters and who is who.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on June 11, 2013, 06:29:41 PM
So I'm a hybrid on this one.  I'm a voracious reader of many things and often read books that appear on tv or film.  Tom Clancy novels I used to love seeing on film and felt they largely held their own on the screen.  Jack Reacher...was pathetic on the screen vs the book(s).  For GOT, I'm doing the reverse, watching the series and then going back and reading the books.  That way I'm not spoiled by it.  However, having to do business with HBO on a daily basis, I know enough about the plot lines for the next few series based on the books, scripts, etc that I pretty much know what happens without having read books 3, 4 or 5 yet...I'll have book 3 done this Summer I would guess.   It also helps me to read later to fill in the gaps because the show has so many stories going on at one time and shifting from one to the next to the next that it's often difficult to follow the characters and who is who.

Jack Reacher books really that good?   Looking for some summer reads,  should I start at the beginning? Saw the movie,  just eh,  was unsure about the books.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 11, 2013, 09:22:41 PM
Jack Reacher books really that good?   Looking for some summer reads,  should I start at the beginning? Saw the movie,  just eh,  was unsure about the books.

I enjoy them...read 11 of them so far.  Easy reads, the movie was terrible compared to the books.  You'll realize that about 20 pages in.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 11, 2013, 09:23:38 PM
Confirmed with HBO tonight that GOT actors are locked up under contract.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on June 11, 2013, 09:29:40 PM
Confirmed with HBO tonight that GOT actors are locked up under contract.

Including Dinklage?  Read that he was a holdout.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 12, 2013, 01:22:20 PM
Including Dinklage?  Read that he was a holdout.

Unless they were giving me wrong information, they said all the actors were locked up during season 2.  They're pre production shooting right now.  They indicated they were burned by Sopranos because the original intent of the series was only 5 years, so when it was extended they had to cough up some extra dough.  As they put it to me last night, they "learned their lesson". Maybe they're wrong, as the folks I deal with are the distribution side, not the creative side.

Sure it wasn't this?

http://hbowatch.com/peter-dinklage-april-season-four/
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 12, 2013, 01:38:14 PM
Unless they were giving me wrong information, they said all the actors were locked up during season 2.

Which also makes sense, since they had to re-cast the Mountain and Beric Dondarrion from season one and not include Greatjohn, and didn't have any of those issues that I recall from season 2-3.  Unless they were too minor to lock up in the first place, or for Dondarrion the books claimed he wasn't even recognizable so the same actor would have been almost wrong anyway.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 12, 2013, 03:02:25 PM
SPOILER: DON'T CLICK ON THE LINK UNLESS YOU'VE READ ALL OF THE BOOKS.

You've been warned.

http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/ (http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/)

The blog post breaks down ASOIAF books by looking at the character narrative and total content. Then he groups them into two Acts (Act one: books 1-3; Act two: books 4-5) and provides some additional commentary. His general argument is that the narrative structure of the book is a key part of the story as well.

Note: The Starks take up over 54% of the narrative structure in the first three books, and that is even after removing Jon Snow from that family for books two and three (since he is technically a member of the Night's Watch). Because the Starks dominate so much of the first three books, it's just a general reinforcement for the shock of Ned's death and the Red Wedding.

My take...
I'm not sure I agree with his approach on Tyrion, who he splits out from the Lannisters. I personally think that it makes more sense to have him as a Lannister regardless of how he may act differently from his family sometimes. And then it makes me question which family, if any, will dominate the third and final act.

Again, don't click if you haven't read all the books. But if you have, it's interesting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 12, 2013, 03:35:56 PM
SPOILER: DON'T CLICK ON THE LINK UNLESS YOU'VE READ ALL OF THE BOOKS.

You've been warned.

http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/ (http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/)

The blog post breaks down ASOIAF books by looking at the character narrative and total content. Then he groups them into two Acts (Act one: books 1-3; Act two: books 4-5) and provides some additional commentary. His general argument is that the narrative structure of the book is a key part of the story as well.

Note: The Starks take up over 54% of the narrative structure in the first three books, and that is even after removing Jon Snow from that family for books two and three (since he is technically a member of the Night's Watch). Because the Starks dominate so much of the first three books, it's just a general reinforcement for the shock of Ned's death and the Red Wedding.

My take...
I'm not sure I agree with his approach on Tyrion, who he splits out from the Lannisters. I personally think that it makes more sense to have him as a Lannister regardless of how he may act differently from his family sometimes. And then it makes me question which family, if any, will dominate the third and final act.

Again, don't click if you haven't read all the books. But if you have, it's interesting.

Tyrion is definately a Lannister throughout.  agree on moving Snow out to the watch from the starks.

SPOILER:  There are some interesting theories about Snow's parentage out there too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 28, 2014, 07:24:27 PM
Only a little more than a Week to go for season 4. Something to look forward to while waiting for our new coach.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 28, 2014, 07:54:22 PM
SPOILER: DON'T CLICK ON THE LINK UNLESS YOU'VE READ ALL OF THE BOOKS.

You've been warned.

http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/ (http://squarelyrooted.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/narrative-structure-in-asoiaf/)

The blog post breaks down ASOIAF books by looking at the character narrative and total content. Then he groups them into two Acts (Act one: books 1-3; Act two: books 4-5) and provides some additional commentary. His general argument is that the narrative structure of the book is a key part of the story as well.

Note: The Starks take up over 54% of the narrative structure in the first three books, and that is even after removing Jon Snow from that family for books two and three (since he is technically a member of the Night's Watch). Because the Starks dominate so much of the first three books, it's just a general reinforcement for the shock of Ned's death and the Red Wedding.

My take...
I'm not sure I agree with his approach on Tyrion, who he splits out from the Lannisters. I personally think that it makes more sense to have him as a Lannister regardless of how he may act differently from his family sometimes. And then it makes me question which family, if any, will dominate the third and final act.

Again, don't click if you haven't read all the books. But if you have, it's interesting.

SPOILERS ALL:!!!!!


Tyrion is his father.  To a T.   Cersei and Jamie behave much more like Targaryens... and GRRM mentions in the books how big of a fan the Mad King was of Joanna Lannister...   ;)

ZFB is referring to the R + L = J theory.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Steve Buscemi on April 05, 2014, 09:03:42 PM
Bump.  Can't wait for tomorrow night.  There's a marathon on HBO right now, too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Chili on April 05, 2014, 09:14:52 PM
Bump.  Can't wait for tomorrow night.  There's a marathon on HBO right now, too.

Have been watching this weekend up until the games came on tonight. Pretty fired up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 05, 2014, 09:33:40 PM
Have been watching this weekend up until the games came on tonight. Pretty fired up.

Saw the premier two weeks ago to this season....eh.  Not bad, not great but it will build.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jay Bee on April 05, 2014, 09:36:53 PM
Never seen it; hope I never do. Not a clue what it is about, yet I hate it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2014, 01:00:20 AM
Never seen it; hope I never do. Not a clue what it is about, yet I hate it.

Do us a favor, don't start now because we wouldn't want to explain it to you anyway.   ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on April 06, 2014, 01:00:54 AM
Never seen it; hope I never do. Not a clue what it is about, yet I hate it.

And, who cares?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on April 06, 2014, 08:08:04 PM
Can't even get HBO GO to load right now!!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on April 06, 2014, 09:08:07 PM
Can't even get HBO GO to load right now!!!

What's the cheapest way to go about getting Game of Thrones?  I've never seen it, so I'd like to watch in bulk sometime soon.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 06, 2014, 11:01:28 PM
What's the cheapest way to go about getting Game of Thrones?  I've never seen it, so I'd like to watch in bulk sometime soon.

There isn't a cheap way. There are free ways and expensive ways.

I'm a sucker and paranoid of being that guy who got made an example of, so I pay for it.

I do enjoy it though. Thought the season premier was great.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2014, 11:51:49 PM
Can't even get HBO GO to load right now!!!

https://twitter.com/poniewozik/statuses/452982861906595840

Yup, should have told you.  Got an alert from HBO earlier today they were having problems.....remember, streaming as cool as it is still has some considerable issues to deal with.  True Detective caused issues a few weeks ago, ABC went down a few weeks ago. Netflix has had 3 major outages in the last 6 months.

Technical advisory was sent early in the evening that HBO Go was having issues.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2014, 11:52:29 PM
What's the cheapest way to go about getting Game of Thrones?  I've never seen it, so I'd like to watch in bulk sometime soon.

Do you have a television subscription?  Do you subscribe to HBO?  If so, all the past seasons are on VOD if you are with a decent television provider.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 08, 2014, 12:22:42 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed the season opener.

My, those dragons have grown ... especially the one that snapped at Daenerys!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: lab_warrior on April 08, 2014, 12:37:20 PM
"You're going to for some chickens?!"

"SOMEBODY IS."


And this--comedy gold:

(http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2139729/joffrey-statue-650x364.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: buckchuckler on April 08, 2014, 09:26:22 PM
What's the cheapest way to go about getting Game of Thrones?  I've never seen it, so I'd like to watch in bulk sometime soon.

Read the books.  Cheapest way to do it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 08, 2014, 11:17:41 PM
HBO picked up season 5 and 6
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on April 08, 2014, 11:31:42 PM
HBO picked up season 5 and 6

Hoping to go 7, I think.

Sunday's episode was highest rating for an HBO series since Sopranos finale.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 09, 2014, 08:58:15 AM
HBO picked up season 5 and 6

I just got a raging game of throner
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 09, 2014, 01:09:49 PM
HBO picked up season 5 and 6

With all the "adult film stars" casted ....duh?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 10, 2014, 02:10:54 PM
NSFW


http://www.out.com/entertainment/popnography/2014/04/09/gay-thrones-recaps-hbos-game-thrones-season-4-premiere

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 14, 2014, 09:47:49 AM
No comments on last night's episode yet?

The end was so satisfying. I can't wait to see where it goes from here
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2014, 12:08:35 PM
No comments on last night's episode yet?

The end was so satisfying. I can't wait to see where it goes from here

I'm giving it a 2 day moratorium before commenting since people may not be caught up
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2014, 09:11:59 PM
I'm giving it a 2 day moratorium before commenting since people may not be caught up

Loved the hell out of it.

I literally was on the edge of my seat during the final 15 minutes because I knew something big was going to happen. I just felt it, because I haven't read the books. I didn't expect that, though. Wow!

Agree with Bleu. I already am looking forward to next week's episode big-time.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 15, 2014, 08:28:05 AM
Loved the hell out of it.

I literally was on the edge of my seat during the final 15 minutes because I knew something big was going to happen. I just felt it, because I haven't read the books. I didn't expect that, though. Wow!

Agree with Bleu. I already am looking forward to next week's episode big-time.

Without spoiling anything this season...

Enjoy this season, the next couple might be a little slower.  A lot of cool stuff will still happen, but the pace of this season will be unmatchable.  I hope that people who haven't read the books will be patient with the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 15, 2014, 10:56:47 AM
Without spoiling anything this season...

Enjoy this season, the next couple might be a little slower.  A lot of cool stuff will still happen, but the pace of this season will be unmatchable.  I hope that people who haven't read the books will be patient with the rest of the series.

I have heard from friends who have read the books that they expected the events of the 2nd episode to happen in the 4th or 5th episode. So this season is already progressing at breakneck pace relative to the books.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 15, 2014, 11:10:26 AM
Something fun to look at: book vs. show

http://i.imgur.com/R1uOWlY.png

*too big to embed
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu-rara on April 15, 2014, 01:47:41 PM
Too early to discuss specifics? 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 15, 2014, 01:50:27 PM
Too early to discuss specifics? 

I don't think so. People have had 36 hours. If they don't want to get spoiled, they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all.

I re-watched the wedding scene last night. After a second viewing, I think its fairly obvious who is behind what happened. It all fits together.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2014, 02:27:24 PM
I don't think so. People have had 36 hours. If they don't want to get spoiled, they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all.


Agreed. But please don't say what happened next in the books.

I didn't read them. I have no imminent plan to read them. And I like to be surprised when I watch this kind of show.

I would have hated to know in advance how this episode ended, just as I would have hated to know how Red Wedding ended and would have hated to know that Ned Stark's life was ended.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 15, 2014, 07:43:46 PM
Agreed. But please don't say what happened next in the books.

I didn't read them. I have no imminent plan to read them. And I like to be surprised when I watch this kind of show.

I would have hated to know in advance how this episode ended, just as I would have hated to know how Red Wedding ended and would have hated to know that Ned Stark's life was ended.

I agree 100%

No book spoilers, but I think tv episodes are fair game 24+ hours after airing
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: NotBuzzWilliams on April 15, 2014, 10:29:38 PM
I haven't read the books, but rewatching the past 2 episodes let me piece together who did what.  But yes, I feel like this season is building into something big
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2014, 06:41:31 AM
I haven't read the books, but rewatching the past 2 episodes let me piece together who did what.  But yes, I feel like this season is building into something big

Plus the internet.  The books are a lot less obvious about who did what.  Which is why they are a lot more fun as well.  Peeling apart paragraphs, and dissecting lines of text is more rewarding... IMO.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: akmarq on April 17, 2014, 10:51:23 AM
Without spoiling anything this season...

Enjoy this season, the next couple might be a little slower.  A lot of cool stuff will still happen, but the pace of this season will be unmatchable.  I hope that people who haven't read the books will be patient with the rest of the series.

I think they'll be able to find action by integrating book 4 and 5 into season 5/6. My uneducated guess is that they hit the 4th/5th books chronological synchronization point somewhere around late season 5/early season 6. All the plot that's happening at the same time but split between books 4 and 5 will be shown side-by-side in season 5.

The show has the benefit of knowing where things are headed in Books 6/7 so they can accelerate/decelerate pace as necessary. My biggest concern is that late seasons of GOT will spoil Book 7 for readers.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2014, 11:19:25 AM
I think they'll be able to find action by integrating book 4 and 5 into season 5/6. My uneducated guess is that they hit the 4th/5th books chronological synchronization point somewhere around late season 5/early season 6. All the plot that's happening at the same time but split between books 4 and 5 will be shown side-by-side in season 5.

The show has the benefit of knowing where things are headed in Books 6/7 so they can accelerate/decelerate pace as necessary. My biggest concern is that late seasons of GOT will spoil Book 7 for readers.

I share that concern.  I'm worried that there is too much book info left for the show to only have 3 or 4 seasons left.  While books 4 and 5 were a bit slower, a lot still happened in them.  And with book 6 being at least as long as book 5, how will four books fit into four seasons of TV when book 3 took up two seasons alone!

I am holding out hope that they film the rest of the series and then shelf the last season or two if the books aren't out yet... and make a Robert's Rebellion season in the interim with other actors.  It would be easily done, and could let GRRM finish the books up and save face.  If the books are eclipsed by the TV show, that is a massive blunder for GRRM.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: akmarq on April 17, 2014, 11:29:51 AM
I am holding out hope that they film the rest of the series and then shelf the last season or two if the books aren't out yet... and make a Robert's Rebellion season in the interim with other actors.  It would be easily done, and could let GRRM finish the books up and save face.  If the books are eclipsed by the TV show, that is a massive blunder for GRRM.

It'd be a pretty uncool move to all the people who have invested all the time to read the books. I realize that the TV show is now a much bigger deal than the series, but it takes a serious commitment (as far as reading time) to follow the book series. Never thought of doing a prequel type season to buy time but I'd be very interested in it - watching the Battle on the Trident would be awesome.

Might also give them a chance to flush out some popular lineage theories that pull on later books  ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 18, 2014, 08:05:24 AM
I have heard from friends who have read the books that they expected the events of the 2nd episode to happen in the 4th or 5th episode. So this season is already progressing at breakneck pace relative to the books.

Indeed it's a loaded season.  Page-wise they had far less than half of the third book remaining to cover for this season, but the content to make good television is much, much greater.  In addition, based on casting, trailers shown, and obvious need for story lines for characters not covered, they'll be dipping into the fourth and fifth books this season and probably creating some of their own plot as well. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 18, 2014, 09:34:19 AM
Fun fact,

George RR Martin wrote the last television episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 18, 2014, 09:49:17 AM
Fun fact,

George RR Martin wrote the last television episode.

He writes one every year.  He did the battle of the blackwater in season 2.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 18, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
Is he still laying out his thoughts on the Jets signing Chris Johnson, or is he actually writing Winds of Winter?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 22, 2014, 06:37:25 PM
For you G.O.T. fans

http://quartermaester.info/

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 28, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
Looks like they're now doing things not in the books at all and some things not even revealed in the books yet.  I'm down. 

And at least Ser Pounce is now in the show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: NotBuzzWilliams on June 02, 2014, 01:18:32 AM
How about that episode, huh?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2014, 01:20:26 AM
How about that episode, huh?

my eyes, my eyes
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 09, 2014, 02:46:00 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/34RtY8Z.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: AZWarrior on July 11, 2014, 04:58:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/34RtY8Z.gif)

What is the MU Scoop over / under on how many years George Martin Has left.  He does kind of look like a coronary arrest on legs, after all.

And here's a fun fact:  George Martin does not tweet.  Reason being is that he has already killed off all 140 characters.   ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 12, 2014, 09:48:55 AM
What is the MU Scoop over / under on how many years George Martin Has left.  He does kind of look like a coronary arrest on legs, after all.


Hmmm ... placing bets on how long people have to live? That's tempting karma big-time, no?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on July 13, 2014, 10:18:32 AM
It seems most would like him to exercise more...getting a good workout in by typing copiously on his DOS computer.  Is a little scary though; they always post a minute-long segment with GRRM explaining something after each episode, and by the end of the minute he's always out of breath.  And one need only read a few pages to know how much he likes his food.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 14, 2014, 08:19:34 AM
I don't actually care that much if he finishes the books or not. Sure, reading them is enjoyable, but at this point I'm more interested in knowing how the story ends. The TV show will do a fine (and arguably tighter) job of doing that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on July 14, 2014, 09:32:35 AM
I don't actually care that much if he finishes the books or not. Sure, reading them is enjoyable, but at this point I'm more interested in knowing how the story ends. The TV show will do a fine (and arguably tighter) job of doing that.

The show will likely be deviating from the plotlines that Martin has.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on July 14, 2014, 02:32:30 PM
The show will likely be deviating from the plotlines that Martin has.

It's not like the overall plot will be significantly different, however
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on August 26, 2014, 03:30:12 PM
I had the pleasure of meeting George R. R. Martin and his wife last night.  Very cool....hope he can finish his masterpiece.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 13, 2015, 10:03:13 AM
I liked the latest episode. Next week will see what happens to Arya.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 13, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
Decent start, as usual mostly setup. Really looking forward to the story at the Wall this season, and how they handle Tyrion's journey.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 13, 2015, 10:59:11 AM
I think I watched maybe 30 minutes of GoT in my life.  I think it was the last season ender with the Hound dude getting sorta killed by a kid....anyway...

I don't really care about the show obviously, but I'm fascinated right now by the books vs tv power struggle.  For several years it seemed like everyone was concerned that the books wouldn't be finished in time to finish the show, and this was a problem.  However, as a disinterest person, it seems that has shifted.  It seems like now most* people actually think the tv show will do a better job of ending the story line.  Essentially, there are a lot of things hinted at in the books and the showrunners have decided that's going to be canon and move forward as such regardless of what Martin writes.

*(like the 7 people I've talked to and TV writers I've read)

I'm fascinated by the power struggle between the show creators and the author.  Prior to this year I felt like Martin had the power as people viewed his books as the absolute truth of what was going on and they couldn't move on with out him.  I suspect he maybe dragged his feet because they were at his mercy.  However as the show has tweaked and altered story lines and characters the audience has built up a trust that the show creators "get it" and they've been decoupled from Martin's power.  I had a friend who's a major fanboy and read the books before watching the show and he said 95% of the time the show improved things when they made changes from the books.

Does there come a point where Martin gets hamstrung by what the tv show presents versus the previous paradigm?  Is this a totally stupid line of discussion?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 13, 2015, 11:13:57 AM
Decent start, as usual mostly setup. Really looking forward to the story at the Wall this season, and how they handle Tyrion's journey.

I have the first 3 episodes on disc (distribution affiliate partners get these, I'm still on their list) from HBO.  I watched episode one last week, plan on watching 2 and 3 in the next two days.  From what I have heard from HBO, there will be a strong kicker in these next two episodes.  Promise not to spoil.  Thought episode 1 was ok.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 13, 2015, 02:49:24 PM
For those who don't binge watch previous season the weeks, days, hours leading up to the season premiere episodes like last night are necessary because of everything going on. Needs to re-establish characters and start rebuilding on them. Only thing that stinks is its 10% of the season. Oh well...its necessary.

Who else has the first four episodes on their laptop?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on April 13, 2015, 03:10:35 PM
For those who don't binge watch previous season the weeks, days, hours leading up to the season premiere episodes like last night are necessary because of everything going on. Needs to re-establish characters and start rebuilding on them. Only thing that stinks is its 10% of the season. Oh well...its necessary.

Who else has the first four episodes on their laptop?

I'm hoping they bury the sons of bitches that leaked it.  When we are given advance copies, each one is watermarked with our personal names on the actual footage and the disc.  There are also some trace numbers, so they know exactly who got what.  Much of it is to scare the hell out of you to make sure you don't put it out on the internet.  My hope is that whomever leaked the first 4 is crushed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 13, 2015, 06:33:50 PM
Watched the premiere using HBO Now.  Ordered through Apple (will switch when Amazon gets it ~July), watched on a Windows laptop.  No issues at all - well done, HBO. 


I had a friend who's a major fanboy and read the books before watching the show and he said 95% of the time the show improved things when they made changes from the books.

Does there come a point where Martin gets hamstrung by what the tv show presents versus the previous paradigm?  Is this a totally stupid line of discussion?

When factoring what would be practical for the show versus books, I'd say it's about evenly divided between an improvement, worse, or the same either way.   Some things are logical and well done - they combine characters from books into one show character very well without missing anything.  Others suck - they have completely botched the Stannis character, one of the fan favorites from the books.  This season should have more changes - Sansa seems to be on a path far more interesting than the books; Jaime on one that will cause them to forgo one of my favorite scenes in all the books. 

The books won't lose their value.  There are a ton of theories, hidden messages, and other things that unfold/will unfold in the books; even though the show has been pitched as believing people are smart and can follow it compared to most dumbed-down programming, it's still a drop in the water of the books.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 13, 2015, 08:36:01 PM
I don't actually care that much if he finishes the books or not. Sure, reading them is enjoyable, but at this point I'm more interested in knowing how the story ends. The TV show will do a fine (and arguably tighter) job of doing that.

I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire for 15 years. He'd better finish the freaking books!

It was bad enough with Robert Jordan died without finishing the Wheel of Time series! Gah!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 14, 2015, 08:35:09 AM
Watched the premiere using HBO Now.  Ordered through Apple (will switch when Amazon gets it ~July), watched on a Windows laptop.  No issues at all - well done, HBO. 


When factoring what would be practical for the show versus books, I'd say it's about evenly divided between an improvement, worse, or the same either way.   Some things are logical and well done - they combine characters from books into one show character very well without missing anything.  Others suck - they have completely botched the Stannis character, one of the fan favorites from the books.  This season should have more changes - Sansa seems to be on a path far more interesting than the books; Jaime on one that will cause them to forgo one of my favorite scenes in all the books. 

The books won't lose their value.  There are a ton of theories, hidden messages, and other things that unfold/will unfold in the books; even though the show has been pitched as believing people are smart and can follow it compared to most dumbed-down programming, it's still a drop in the water of the books.



absolutely.  I think the previous quote of 95% of the time they improved is an overstatement.  Having read the books, you notice so many more nuances, character development, more characters, and a lot of foreshadowing. 

The books will always be canon to me, with the show being an abridged version (Readers Digest version).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 14, 2015, 09:39:31 AM
absolutely.  I think the previous quote of 95% of the time they improved is an overstatement.  Having read the books, you notice so many more nuances, character development, more characters, and a lot of foreshadowing. 

The books will always be canon to me, with the show being an abridged version (Readers Digest version).

So what happens if the show has to move on without the books because they aren't done in time.  Does that ruin the books or ruin the show or neither?  Does that put Martin in a box or will it be ok with the show goes a completely different direction than the books to wrap it up?

Side note, how many books are there out now and how many left to finish the series?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu-rara on April 14, 2015, 09:52:15 AM
I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire for 15 years. He'd better finish the freaking books!

It was bad enough with Robert Jordan died without finishing the Wheel of Time series! Gah!
and Vince Flynn too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 14, 2015, 11:08:27 AM
So what happens if the show has to move on without the books because they aren't done in time.  Does that ruin the books or ruin the show or neither?  Does that put Martin in a box or will it be ok with the show goes a completely different direction than the books to wrap it up?

Side note, how many books are there out now and how many left to finish the series?

Martin's provided the high-level to Benioff/Weiss to move forward with the series; it might go in a different direction, but will end up in a somewhat similar place.  Don't think it'll affect Martin too much; in hindsight the overwriting he did might work in his favor since there are so many more arcs that the show won't even touch. 

Five books out now, two more expected.  This season will finish the books out now, and create new storylines and possibly go a little into the Winds of Winter (optimistically expected Spring 2016).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on April 14, 2015, 11:59:20 AM
absolutely.  I think the previous quote of 95% of the time they improved is an overstatement.  Having read the books, you notice so many more nuances, character development, more characters, and a lot of foreshadowing. 

The books will always be canon to me, with the show being an abridged version (Readers Digest version).

I think that is pretty normal. I've never seen a movie/show that captures an entire book.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 14, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
I think that is pretty normal. I've never seen a movie/show that captures an entire book.

And to be fair, I wouldn't want to
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on April 14, 2015, 02:37:21 PM
Am I the only one who stopped watching this show because they keep killing all the people I like? 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 14, 2015, 03:16:06 PM
I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire for 15 years. He'd better finish the freaking books!

It was bad enough with Robert Jordan died without finishing the Wheel of Time series! Gah!

Meh - I still don't really care. There are plenty of other nerd fantasy books out there to read.

GRRM is like Three Floyds. It's pretty good beer, but there are lots of other really good beers out there that don't have the distribution issues or attitude. The TV show is a fine substitute for finishing the books.

Other authors I would recommend:
Joe Abercrombie, Brent Weeks, Peter V. Brett, Patrick Rothfuss, Scott Lynch, Anthony Ryan.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 14, 2015, 03:26:30 PM
I think that is pretty normal. I've never seen a movie/show that captures an entire book.

The first season of GoT was damn close. I watched it first, then read the book, which is usually the opposite of how I like to do it. It amazed me reading the book how I felt that I really didn't learn much that I didn't already know from watching the show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 15, 2015, 07:44:48 AM
Am I the only one who stopped watching this show because they keep killing all the people I like? 

Most likely
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 15, 2015, 05:43:59 PM
Am I the only one who stopped watching this show because they keep killing all the people I like? 


Wait until one of the dragons dies.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: WI inferiority Complexes on April 15, 2015, 06:51:05 PM
I liked-- but didn't love-- Game of Thrones.  I sat down to watch the first episode of the new season and just felt overwhelmed.  The two minutes of "Previously on GOT" was filled with some many story lines, I wondered why I would even try to watch anymore.

I know I'm pathetic, but I've become too lazy to care about everything going on in this series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 16, 2015, 06:36:00 AM
Meh - I still don't really care. There are plenty of other nerd fantasy books out there to read.

GRRM is like Three Floyds. It's pretty good beer, but there are lots of other really good beers out there that don't have the distribution issues or attitude. The TV show is a fine substitute for finishing the books.

Other authors I would recommend:
Joe Abercrombie, Brent Weeks, Peter V. Brett, Patrick Rothfuss, Scott Lynch, Anthony Ryan.

Thanks for the suggestions, I don't have many people to talk about this with.

My bookshelf is packed with RA Salvatore and Terry Goodkind.

I need to get back into reading for fun instead of just reading management books!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on April 16, 2015, 09:01:30 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, I don't have many people to talk about this with.

My bookshelf is packed with RA Salvatore and Terry Goodkind.

I need to get back into reading for fun instead of just reading management books!

I haven't yet checked out Salvatore and Goodkind, but will give them a shot. Any specific recommendations?

If you are looking at the list of authors, start with Abercrombie's First Law trilogy. I also really liked the Night Angel trilogy from Weeks.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 16, 2015, 10:32:52 AM
I haven't yet checked out Salvatore and Goodkind, but will give them a shot. Any specific recommendations?

If you are looking at the list of authors, start with Abercrombie's First Law trilogy. I also really liked the Night Angel trilogy from Weeks.

They're fun fantasy romps, and not challenging reads at all. I enjoyed:

The Cleric Quintet (http://www.amazon.com/Cleric-Quintet-Collectors-Edition-Forgotten/dp/0786926902) the most from Salvatore, and the Sword of Truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth) series from Goodkind.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 16, 2015, 06:54:40 PM
I liked-- but didn't love-- Game of Thrones.  I sat down to watch the first episode of the new season and just felt overwhelmed.  The two minutes of "Previously on GOT" was filled with some many story lines, I wondered why I would even try to watch anymore.

I know I'm pathetic, but I've become too lazy to care about everything going on in this series.

GoT can be very overwhelming. That's where I think reading the books helps a lot. My wife won't watch it without me anymore because she always needs to be reminded of which storyline we are watching. In the book, it works well because you get time to get back into the story each time they do a narrative shift, but in the series, you are dropped in story to story very rapidly. I hope in the coming seasons, they trim down the number of simultaneous narratives, because I think that is a complaint of quite a few viewers.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 08, 2015, 08:51:49 AM
Anyone catch last nights EPIC episode. Highlight of the series for me up to this point.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2015, 09:00:51 AM
I thought the whitewalkers attacking Hardhome was more shocking.    Burning the princess at the stake was horrible.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on June 08, 2015, 09:17:48 AM
Both of the last 2 episodes have been action packed and definitely have a shock factor.  Hope the season finale next week lives up to these 2.  The princess scene was probably the most uncomfortable one for me to watch of the whole series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 08, 2015, 09:21:46 AM
Anyone catch last nights EPIC episode. Highlight of the series for me up to this point.

It somewhat jumped the shark for me last night.


Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JuniorCardigan on June 08, 2015, 09:46:21 AM
Anyone catch last nights EPIC episode. Highlight of the series for me up to this point.

It was an OK episode...but they totally butchered Stannis' character. Not in the good "lets make this guy a villain way" but in the "lets just ruin this guy's character in the most pathetic way possible." It seems like the writers really didn't know what to do with his character arc and just copped out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2015, 10:30:03 AM
I thought the whitewalkers attacking Hardhome was more shocking.    Burning the princess at the stake was horrible.   

Yea. Night's King > Dragon rider. The princess burning was absolutely coming since stannis left the wall, but it was still pretty terrible.

Cbb - I think I recall you're a big fan of the show. Why the change?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 08, 2015, 10:39:54 AM
It was an OK episode...but they totally butchered Stannis' character. Not in the good "lets make this guy a villain way" but in the "lets just ruin this guy's character in the most pathetic way possible." It seems like the writers really didn't know what to do with his character arc and just copped out.

Completely agree.  And putting it on GRRM in their after episode comments was lame.  Yes, he told them Shireen is sacrificed in the next book (which was expected); but they went out of their way to do it in a way that completely misses the point from how Martin has set it up to happen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2015, 11:42:15 AM
Completely agree.  And putting it on GRRM in their after episode comments was lame.  Yes, he told them Shireen is sacrificed in the next book (which was expected); but they went out of their way to do it in a way that completely misses the point from how Martin has set it up to happen.

As a non-book reader... Care to explain how it's setup in the books?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on June 08, 2015, 11:44:29 AM
As a non-book reader... Care to explain how it's setup in the books?

Shireen/Selyse/Mel are at the Wall and not with Stannis.  Seems like it's heading to a point where Stannis won't witness it; perhaps not even sanction it.  Nor is it setup to be believable that Selyse has last second remorse/regret as she was depicted to have last night.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on June 08, 2015, 11:52:40 AM
Shireen/Selyse/Mel are at the Wall and not with Stannis.  Seems like it's heading to a point where Stannis won't witness it; perhaps not even sanction it.  Nor is it setup to be believable that Selyse has last second remorse/regret as she was depicted to have last night.

Interesting because even last night the show had the chance to send the girls to the Wall with Davos.  Wonder why the deviation.  Time constraints?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 08, 2015, 12:03:19 PM
Shireen/Selyse/Mel are at the Wall and not with Stannis.  Seems like it's heading that Stannis won't witness it; perhaps not even sanction it.  Nor is it setup to be believable that Selyse has last second remorse/regret as she was depicted to have last night.

Yep.  When they're starving in the snow and his men ask him to sacrifice non-believers, he tells them no one burns and to "pray harder".  He also sends a knight away from his camp, telling him that if he should die, his orders are to put his daughter on the throne.  
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JuniorCardigan on June 08, 2015, 12:23:09 PM
Shireen/Selyse/Mel are at the Wall and not with Stannis.  Seems like it's heading to a point where Stannis won't witness it; perhaps not even sanction it.  Nor is it setup to be believable that Selyse has last second remorse/regret as she was depicted to have last night.

It would have been a lot more interesting if Melisandre had done it behind his back.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
I'm lukewarm on this season. There are a lot of things I don't like. Last night's sacrifice of Shireen was certainly up there. I also didn't like the twist with Ramsey tormenting Sansa. Totally unnecessary twist. I mean...we know from the whole Reek thing that Ramsey is an awful human being. We also know that Sansa was tormented by Joffrey. Having her endure that again while reinforcing that Ramsey is awful is just unnecessary.

Sure, there have been some good moments this season, but there have also been some spectacular low points and not in a good way. This is why I didn't like it when they started deviating from the books in Season 2. I get it, a lot of people read the books and you want to spice it up for them, but GRRM is bloody enough with his main characters. You don't need to further kill/abuse/torture characters, especially ones like Shireen (one of the few innocents and already tormented by Greyscale) and Sansa (already been through this ringer before), just for the sake of "keeping it interesting."

I hate to be one of "those people" because I get creative license, but they are quite literally abusing it this season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 08, 2015, 03:01:12 PM
I'm lukewarm on this season. There are a lot of things I don't like. Last night's sacrifice of Shireen was certainly up there. I also didn't like the twist with Ramsey tormenting Sansa. Totally unnecessary twist. I mean...we know from the whole Reek thing that Ramsey is an awful human being. We also know that Sansa was tormented by Joffrey. Having her endure that again while reinforcing that Ramsey is awful is just unnecessary.

Sure, there have been some good moments this season, but there have also been some spectacular low points and not in a good way. This is why I didn't like it when they started deviating from the books in Season 2. I get it, a lot of people read the books and you want to spice it up for them, but GRRM is bloody enough with his main characters. You don't need to further kill/abuse/torture characters, especially ones like Shireen (one of the few innocents and already tormented by Greyscale) and Sansa (already been through this ringer before), just for the sake of "keeping it interesting."

I hate to be one of "those people" because I get creative license, but they are quite literally abusing it this season.

If it makes you feel better about Shireen, the idea to torch her came from Martin, who apparently told Weiss and Benioff that'll be her fate in the next book. As brutal as the scene was, I completely disagree with the complaint that it was for the sake of "keeping it interesting." To the contrary, it was essential to the character arc of Stannis, who we shouldn't forget not only is not a good guy, but someone who has burned people and sacrificed family before for the sake of his ambition.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2015, 03:35:32 PM
This season seems somewhat less focused to me.   Before, they had the densely written source material.  This year, they have the cliff's notes outlines.    Maybe because I know it, I am looking for it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 08, 2015, 03:54:12 PM
If it makes you feel better about Shireen, the idea to torch her came from Martin, who apparently told Weiss and Benioff that'll be her fate in the next book. As brutal as the scene was, I completely disagree with the complaint that it was for the sake of "keeping it interesting." To the contrary, it was essential to the character arc of Stannis, who we shouldn't forget not only is not a good guy, but someone who has burned people and sacrificed family before for the sake of his ambition.


The show character, at least.  The book character is all about his duty.  The total botch of the character has been the biggest miss in adaptation, IMO. 

Last week might have been the biggest hit; Hardhome didn't involve Jon and was only briefly mentioned as happening elsewhere in the book.  They went right on location and got an awesome sequence out of it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 08, 2015, 05:06:26 PM
The show character, at least.  The book character is all about his duty.  The total botch of the character has been the biggest miss in adaptation, IMO.

Sense of duty. Ambition. Is there much difference here? Stannis believes it's his destiny (and what's best for the Seven Kingdoms) that he become king, and he'll make any sacrifice - even ones that are personally painful - to achieve it. I think what happened in last night's episode just took that character trait to its logical extreme.
There are some obvious religious overtones to all that as well, no?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2015, 05:26:14 PM
This season seems somewhat less focused to me.   Before, they had the densely written source material.  This year, they have the cliff's notes outlines.    Maybe because I know it, I am looking for it.

They may be doing a cliffs notes version, but we are still at least a couple seasons away from them running out of source material.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 08, 2015, 09:20:17 PM
I haven't read one word in one of the books, and I probably won't.

I am enjoying the show immensely despite the uncomfortable moments that have been discussed in this thread.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 08, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
Yea. Night's King > Dragon rider. The princess burning was absolutely coming since stannis left the wall, but it was still pretty terrible.

Cbb - I think I recall you're a big fan of the show. Why the change?

I feel like it is becoming too reliant on special effects, CGI and eye candy....less on the story and character development.  Just my two cents.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 08, 2015, 10:37:28 PM
I'm lukewarm on this season. There are a lot of things I don't like. Last night's sacrifice of Shireen was certainly up there. I also didn't like the twist with Ramsey tormenting Sansa. Totally unnecessary twist. I mean...we know from the whole Reek thing that Ramsey is an awful human being. We also know that Sansa was tormented by Joffrey. Having her endure that again while reinforcing that Ramsey is awful is just unnecessary.

Sure, there have been some good moments this season, but there have also been some spectacular low points and not in a good way. This is why I didn't like it when they started deviating from the books in Season 2. I get it, a lot of people read the books and you want to spice it up for them, but GRRM is bloody enough with his main characters. You don't need to further kill/abuse/torture characters, especially ones like Shireen (one of the few innocents and already tormented by Greyscale) and Sansa (already been through this ringer before), just for the sake of "keeping it interesting."

I hate to be one of "those people" because I get creative license, but they are quite literally abusing it this season.

To be fair, I am pretty sure Ramsay tortured "Sansa" in the books as well, just turns out it wasn't really Sansa. So, it was kind of a confluence of two story lines into one, and they had to decide if it was going to follow more Ramsay or Sansa
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 09, 2015, 07:08:33 AM
To be fair, I am pretty sure Ramsay tortured "Sansa" in the books as well, just turns out it wasn't really Sansa. So, it was kind of a confluence of two story lines into one, and they had to decide if it was going to follow more Ramsay or Sansa

Fake Arya in the books, but yeah. One problem with GRRM is that he has no problem ignoring a character for ages, but on TV they always want their main characters present.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 09, 2015, 08:20:48 AM
There seems to be a lot more "tut-tut"ing about the show that has popped up this year. Shireen is just the latest example, but there was the Sansa rape episode before that.

It's like people forget that the very first episode had several beheadings, brother-sister incest, and the defenestration of a child.

"Game of Thrones" = Awful things happen to pretty much everyone
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 09, 2015, 10:08:38 AM
There seems to be a lot more "tut-tut"ing about the show that has popped up this year. Shireen is just the latest example, but there was the Sansa rape episode before that.

It's like people forget that the very first episode had several beheadings, brother-sister incest, and the defenestration of a child.

"Game of Thrones" = Awful things happen to pretty much everyone

And there really isn't anyone to root for, as they are all going to do the expedient and then probably die. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2015, 10:15:57 AM
Who do you guys support for their claim to the throne? And what happened to the two stark boys? That story kinda disappeared.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 09, 2015, 10:35:42 AM
Who do you guys support for their claim to the throne? And what happened to the two stark boys? That story kinda disappeared.

Bran and Rickon will return in season 6.

Nobody is really worthy of the throne, except perhaps Tyrion and Jon, neither of whom are claiming it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 09, 2015, 10:39:21 AM
Who do you guys support for their claim to the throne? And what happened to the two stark boys? That story kinda disappeared.

I certainly got the vibe that the threat of the White walkers are going to be a unifying force for the disparate groups.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2015, 10:47:17 AM
Bran and Rickon will return in season 6.

Nobody is really worthy of the throne, except perhaps Tyrion and Jon, neither of whom are claiming it.

I agree about who's worthy but neither of them have a legit claim to it.  Daenarys and stannis have the most legit claims, I guess if robert's bastard is still alive he has one to. I'd like to see Jon on the throne but doubt that happens. 

I think the Dragons clash with the white walkers the whole fire vs ice thing as a war. Somehow I think Jon and Daenarys end up together. It just seems like something that'd happen while fighting the walkers.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 09, 2015, 10:50:40 AM
I agree about who's worthy but neither of them have a legit claim to it.  Daenarys and stannis have the most legit claims, I guess if robert's bastard is still alive he has one to. I'd like to see Jon on the throne but doubt that happens. 

I think the Dragons clash with the white walkers the whole fire vs ice thing as a war. Somehow I think Jon and Daenarys end up together. It just seems like something that'd happen while fighting the walkers.

There's a pretty good, credible theory out there for why Jon has a very legitimate claim to it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2015, 10:52:27 AM
There's a pretty good, credible theory out there for why Jon has a very legitimate claim to it.

Yeah I think a buddy mentioned it to me once but it was after a few rounds so I can't recall it. It's based off the idea that his mother was robert's sister right?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 09, 2015, 10:59:32 AM
Yeah I think a buddy mentioned it to me once but it was after a few rounds so I can't recall it. It's based off the idea that his mother was robert's sister right?

No.
It's based on who might be his real father (not Ned) and mother.
I'd rather not detail any more, in case anyone doesn't (or doesn't want to) know, but you can find it out there in the interwebs pretty easily.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 09, 2015, 11:04:18 AM
No.
It's based on who might be his real father (not Ned) and mother.
I'd rather not detail any more, in case anyone doesn't (or doesn't want to) know, but you can find it out there in the interwebs pretty easily.

Gotcha. Thanks I'll search for it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 09, 2015, 12:59:58 PM
Who do you guys support for their claim to the throne?

Him, because of:

(https://33.media.tumblr.com/794f8b896136dd4780bc2376878c47ae/tumblr_nn1bbwkeBt1thv3zfo3_500.gif)


But he will never sit the throne, which I am also fine with.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 09, 2015, 01:56:31 PM
There seems to be a lot more "tut-tut"ing about the show that has popped up this year. Shireen is just the latest example, but there was the Sansa rape episode before that.

It's like people forget that the very first episode had several beheadings, brother-sister incest, and the defenestration of a child.

"Game of Thrones" = Awful things happen to pretty much everyone

Wow Henry...good word.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 09, 2015, 08:08:13 PM
I'm lukewarm on this season. There are a lot of things I don't like. Last night's sacrifice of Shireen was certainly up there. I also didn't like the twist with Ramsey tormenting Sansa. Totally unnecessary twist. I mean...we know from the whole Reek thing that Ramsey is an awful human being. We also know that Sansa was tormented by Joffrey. Having her endure that again while reinforcing that Ramsey is awful is just unnecessary.

Sure, there have been some good moments this season, but there have also been some spectacular low points and not in a good way. This is why I didn't like it when they started deviating from the books in Season 2. I get it, a lot of people read the books and you want to spice it up for them, but GRRM is bloody enough with his main characters. You don't need to further kill/abuse/torture characters, especially ones like Shireen (one of the few innocents and already tormented by Greyscale) and Sansa (already been through this ringer before), just for the sake of "keeping it interesting."

I hate to be one of "those people" because I get creative license, but they are quite literally abusing it this season.

I feel like it is becoming too reliant on special effects, CGI and eye candy....less on the story and character development.  Just my two cents.




Think this article does a pretty good job of echoing your feelings:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/8/8748255/game-of-thrones-shocking-moments
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Warrior Code on June 09, 2015, 09:31:18 PM
Bran and Rickon will return in season 6.

Nobody is really worthy of the throne, except perhaps Tyrion and Jon, neither of whom are claiming it.

Bran is going to get inside the mind of one of the dragons, and things are going to go DOWN. You'll forget he was missing for a whole season. Not a spoiler, just a hunch.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 09, 2015, 11:42:11 PM
They went out of their way to let us know that Valyrian steel swords can take down white walkers. Curious to see how that develops. Is there enough Valyrian steel out there to equip a small army?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 10, 2015, 10:22:45 AM
Well I think I finally have an hunch how this Game of Thrones will end on HBO. In the final scene of the last episode there will be total silence with the Dark King sitting on the Iron Throne to rule all the dead.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on June 10, 2015, 10:35:16 AM
This is pretty brilliant in case anyone hasn't seen it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on June 10, 2015, 10:53:35 AM
They went out of their way to let us know that Valyrian steel swords can take down white walkers. Curious to see how that develops. Is there enough Valyrian steel out there to equip a small army?

No, there are very few Valyrian steel swords remaining.  Less than 20 I believe, and a good chunk of those are in general areas/families, not explicitly known, location wise.

Dragonglass, which is all over Stannis' castle, is a far more likely weapon.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on June 10, 2015, 12:20:52 PM
No, there are very few Valyrian steel swords remaining.  Less than 20 I believe, and a good chunk of those are in general areas/families, not explicitly known, location wise.

Dragonglass, which is all over Stannis' castle, is a far more likely weapon.

Take those 20, melt them down for a few hundred valyrian tipped arrows.  Boom solved.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 10, 2015, 01:10:05 PM
Good read for anyone wanting to catch up on the history of Westeros.

http://io9.com/a-complete-guide-to-the-mythical-history-of-westeros-1710148588
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 11, 2015, 05:19:42 AM
No, there are very few Valyrian steel swords remaining.  Less than 20 I believe, and a good chunk of those are in general areas/families, not explicitly known, location wise.

Dragonglass, which is all over Stannis' castle, is a far more likely weapon.

Or mayhaps combine Dragonglass with castle forged steel using dragon fire.

Mayhaps.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on June 15, 2015, 07:42:20 AM
oh
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on June 15, 2015, 09:04:19 AM
He doesn't remain dead, just my take.  I haven't read the books, I have no spoiler insight.  I just have a hunch, much like the guy in the Brotherhood from a few seasons ago that had died 6-7 times.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 15, 2015, 09:16:47 AM
He doesn't remain dead, just my take.  I haven't read the books, I have no spoiler insight.  I just have a hunch, much like the guy in the Brotherhood from a few seasons ago that had died 6-7 times.

Fans of the books are waiting as well...he is dead in them also, but that was based on the last book.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 15, 2015, 09:33:57 AM
He doesn't remain dead, just my take.  I haven't read the books, I have no spoiler insight.  I just have a hunch, much like the guy in the Brotherhood from a few seasons ago that had died 6-7 times.

Agree.  He is dead, but no way he stays that way.  Same cliffhanger that books are on at the moment for four years now.  Cheap of them to put Benjen in the preview as the set up to For the Watch; really thought they were going to give us an answer as to where he's been.

Even though it was off screen, I do believe the One True King is dead.

The whole Dorne sequence this season was terrible.  They had to add Jaime and Bronn to give it some familiarity and star power, and it still fell flat.   

Cersei's walk of shame and the revealing of Ser Robert Strong was really well done.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 15, 2015, 09:40:47 AM
He doesn't remain dead, just my take.  I haven't read the books, I have no spoiler insight.  I just have a hunch, much like the guy in the Brotherhood from a few seasons ago that had died 6-7 times.

Jon Snow "dies" right after Melisandre and her likely powers of resurrection return to Castle Black.
Just saying.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JuniorCardigan on June 15, 2015, 09:58:11 AM
If he stays dead I will be very disappointed with this show/books. He was the most interesting character on the show (besides Littlefinger at least, whom they refuse to give screen time) in my opinion.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on June 15, 2015, 10:37:34 AM
Agreed, no way he stays dead. We'll see what happens with Stannis...weird they cut to the next screen just as she's about to seal the deal.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 15, 2015, 10:39:23 AM
Melisandre arrives just prior to death.   I am with JWags. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on June 15, 2015, 10:49:01 AM
Does Jon Snow have "king's blood"?  Could that help with a potential resurrection?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 15, 2015, 10:58:27 AM
so many spoilers, but worth reading if you are interested

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/14/8779659/jon-snow-dead-game-of-thrones

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: WarriorInNYC on June 15, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Some good commentary on the last episode from a guy who has not read the books at all

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-10-recap/

Henry, when you say there are some spoilers, I'm assuming you mean from the books that have not occurred yet?  I watched last nights episode but have not read the books at all, so I am definitely trying to avoid spoilers of that nature.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 15, 2015, 03:04:56 PM
Some good commentary on the last episode from a guy who has not read the books at all

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-10-recap/

Henry, when you say there are some spoilers, I'm assuming you mean from the books that have not occurred yet?  I watched last nights episode but have not read the books at all, so I am definitely trying to avoid spoilers of that nature.

I'm sure some folks will disagree, but the show is pretty much caught up with the books. There are definitely differences, however. The post goes into detail about three things:

1. How the attack on Jon Snow went down in the books
2. Why very few readers of the books believed Jon is permanently dead
(Note that this section explicitly discusses R+L=J, so if you don't care about that or don't want to know, then avoid)
3. How readers think Jon Snow could come back
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 12, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
didn't go to Comic Con this year, but GOT is crazy as ever


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-game-of-thrones-comic-con-20150712-column.html#page=2
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 24, 2016, 09:33:17 PM
Well, we're back.  Of course, they saved the best for the end of the episode. Sad we didn't see Bran yet.

I've got some theories on Melisandre. Really, just two possibilities. 1. She gave her life/age/beauty so that Jon could live or, 2. She gave up on the "Lord of Light" and is just willing to die now.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on April 24, 2016, 10:36:12 PM
Well, we're back.  Of course, they saved the best for the end of the episode. Sad we didn't see Bran yet.

I've got some theories on Melisandre. Really, just two possibilities. 1. She gave her life/age/beauty so that Jon could live or, 2. She gave up on the "Lord of Light" and is just willing to die now.

Thoughts?

My best guess would be #1. Stannis is gone and she has lost her influence.

But, I thought this was probably the best season-opening episode since Year 1.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 24, 2016, 11:25:18 PM
Well, we're back.  Of course, they saved the best for the end of the episode. Sad we didn't see Bran yet.

I've got some theories on Melisandre. Really, just two possibilities. 1. She gave her life/age/beauty so that Jon could live or, 2. She gave up on the "Lord of Light" and is just willing to die now.

Thoughts?

I'm guessing option 1.

I'm also kinda thinking they won't actually bring back Snow till the mid season finale. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 25, 2016, 02:59:00 AM
Well, we're back.  Of course, they saved the best for the end of the episode. Sad we didn't see Bran yet.

I've got some theories on Melisandre. Really, just two possibilities. 1. She gave her life/age/beauty so that Jon could live or, 2. She gave up on the "Lord of Light" and is just willing to die now.

Thoughts?

I thought her youth was tied to the necklace she took off
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 25, 2016, 06:09:03 AM
Meh.   Other than the execution of the princes of Dorne. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2016, 11:37:30 AM
I re-watched last season's finale and then immediately watched this season's opener.

I enjoyed both ("re-enjoyed" the former) and am looking forward to seeing how the characters and storyline develop.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 25, 2016, 12:07:26 PM
Is this what was going on courtesy of The Onion?


http://www.theonion.com/article/game-thrones-fan-rewatching-past-episodes-remind-s-52796

‘Game Of Thrones’ Fan Rewatching Past Episodes To Remind Self Of What Characters’ Breasts Look Like

NEWS IN BRIEF  April 22, 2016 
Vol 52 Issue 15  Entertainment  ·  Television

FREMONT, CA—In an effort to refresh his memory ahead of the upcoming season of the popular fantasy series, local Game Of Thrones fan Bryan Parker reportedly rewatched past episodes of the show this week to remind himself of what all the characters’ breasts look like. “I remember most of the characters’ breasts, but there are just so many of them, and a lot of the time there’s a bunch on the screen at once, so I felt I really needed to brush up on them just to be safe,” said Parker, who explained that even after regularly watching the show for five seasons, he still often becomes confused trying to keep track of all the various nipples. “Sometimes I have a hard time following along with the storyline and I mistake Daenerys Targaryen’s breasts for Margaery Tyrell’s, since they’re so similar-looking. Honestly, I had to watch the nude scenes set in Littlefinger’s brothel a few times to remember which breasts were which.” Parker added that he was still upset the show killed off his favorite pair of breasts in season four.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 25, 2016, 01:38:12 PM
I thought her youth was tied to the necklace she took off

Yes, the necklace is a glamour that tricks everyone into seeing what we always saw.  That was her true really, really old self.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 25, 2016, 01:48:51 PM
I thought her youth was tied to the necklace she took off

Correct.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2016, 03:13:56 PM
Is this what was going on courtesy of The Onion?


http://www.theonion.com/article/game-thrones-fan-rewatching-past-episodes-remind-s-52796

‘Game Of Thrones’ Fan Rewatching Past Episodes To Remind Self Of What Characters’ Breasts Look Like

NEWS IN BRIEF  April 22, 2016 
Vol 52 Issue 15  Entertainment  ·  Television

FREMONT, CA—In an effort to refresh his memory ahead of the upcoming season of the popular fantasy series, local Game Of Thrones fan Bryan Parker reportedly rewatched past episodes of the show this week to remind himself of what all the characters’ breasts look like. “I remember most of the characters’ breasts, but there are just so many of them, and a lot of the time there’s a bunch on the screen at once, so I felt I really needed to brush up on them just to be safe,” said Parker, who explained that even after regularly watching the show for five seasons, he still often becomes confused trying to keep track of all the various nipples. “Sometimes I have a hard time following along with the storyline and I mistake Daenerys Targaryen’s breasts for Margaery Tyrell’s, since they’re so similar-looking. Honestly, I had to watch the nude scenes set in Littlefinger’s brothel a few times to remember which breasts were which.” Parker added that he was still upset the show killed off his favorite pair of breasts in season four.

Funny!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on April 25, 2016, 07:19:02 PM
Nothing could piss me off more than how they botched Stannis, but completely missing the point of Dorne, culminating in that garbage last night comes pretty damn close.  They had a chance to drop one of the coolest moments and speeches in the entire series, and instead settled for "tee hee, let's get our quota of kills for the episode".
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 26, 2016, 07:39:15 AM
If you want to know if John Snow is really dead, ask the President.

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2016/04/18/journalists-response-to-obamas-game-of-thrones-privilege-foia/?utm_source=NakedPrivilegeSponsored300&utm_medium=HouseAds&utm_term=April2016&utm_content=NakedExecutivePrivilege&utm_campaign=PJLifestyleTextAds
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on April 26, 2016, 01:59:08 PM
If you want to know if John Snow is really dead, ask the President.

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2016/04/18/journalists-response-to-obamas-game-of-thrones-privilege-foia/?utm_source=NakedPrivilegeSponsored300&utm_medium=HouseAds&utm_term=April2016&utm_content=NakedExecutivePrivilege&utm_campaign=PJLifestyleTextAds

One more example of the sad state of journalism in the modern era. But I'm sure she expects to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 01, 2016, 09:35:20 PM
Shocking no one, Jon Snow was only...mostly... dead.    Mostly dead means partially alive.   All dead... well, if he's all dead there's only one thing you can do.... go through his pockets and look for loose change.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2016, 09:19:21 AM
Shocking no one, Jon Snow was only...mostly... dead.    Mostly dead means partially alive.   All dead... well, if he's all dead there's only one thing you can do.... go through his pockets and look for loose change.

He must have smelled pretty rank, lying on that table for days.

Most of us surmised that he would come back to life somehow, and at least this show has the magic in it to make it happen (unlike, say, Bobby Ewing on Dallas).

Still, the last 5 minutes was so anticlimactic and cliche.

Witch does magic. Seems to fail. One by one, those who want to believe file out of room, disappointed. Finally, witch leaves, crushed that magic doesn't work. Flash to Snow, flash to wolf, flash back to Snow, flash back to wolf. Wolf opens eyes. Snow, suddenly, opens eyes and gasps for air.

A 9-year-old could have written that.

Not that I have any bright ideas how they should have done it.

They are setting up a pretty nice war between that motherfu@%ing SOB Ramsey's people and Jon's people (including the wildlings). Sub-story: Will Sansa get to Jon in time to be protected?

One little "problem" they are having is with the time arc and the child actors. With the story lines - especially Jon Snow's - we're supposed to believe not much time has passed between last season's end and this season's start. But Sansa, Tommen and especially Arya and Bran look SOOOO much older now.

But hey, we're supposed to suspend reality when watching a show like this, right? I've mostly enjoyed this season's first two episodes. I loved Tyrion's interaction with the dragons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 02, 2016, 10:23:05 AM
So this past episode made me believe in the Tyrion is not a Lanister but a Targaryen theory. One question though, would you guys prefer the White Walkers obliviate the Ramsey or to see Jon Snow and his band of merrymen take down Ramsey?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on May 02, 2016, 11:19:41 AM
"And now it begins."

"Now it ends."


Oh, hell yes!


(https://media.giphy.com/media/2I4dGMb36Y8ZW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 02, 2016, 11:24:38 AM
He must have smelled pretty rank, lying on that table for days.

Most of us surmised that he would come back to life somehow, and at least this show has the magic in it to make it happen (unlike, say, Bobby Ewing on Dallas).

Still, the last 5 minutes was so anticlimactic and cliche.

Witch does magic. Seems to fail. One by one, those who want to believe file out of room, disappointed. Finally, witch leaves, crushed that magic doesn't work. Flash to Snow, flash to wolf, flash back to Snow, flash back to wolf. Wolf opens eyes. Snow, suddenly, opens eyes and gasps for air.

A 9-year-old could have written that.

Not that I have any bright ideas how they should have done it.

They are setting up a pretty nice war between that motherfu@%ing SOB Ramsey's people and Jon's people (including the wildlings). Sub-story: Will Sansa get to Jon in time to be protected?

One little "problem" they are having is with the time arc and the child actors. With the story lines - especially Jon Snow's - we're supposed to believe not much time has passed between last season's end and this season's start. But Sansa, Tommen and especially Arya and Bran look SOOOO much older now.

But hey, we're supposed to suspend reality when watching a show like this, right? I've mostly enjoyed this season's first two episodes. I loved Tyrion's interaction with the dragons.

Pretty sure that John was killed during the early morning (?) and then brought back later that evening (before he turned into a wight).

So episode 1 of this season started essentially a couple hours after episode 10 of last season...or am I wrong?  But yeah, I called Ramsey stabbing Roose moments before that happened (predictable) and my buddy called John opening his eyes and then the credits would roll (also predictable and cliched as you noted).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 02, 2016, 11:40:07 AM
I'm fine with how they brought Jon back.  I don't really think there was a way to do it that would have not been cliche or predictable. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 02, 2016, 11:56:42 AM
So this past episode made me believe in the Tyrion is not a Lanister but a Targaryen theory. One question though, would you guys prefer the White Walkers obliviate the Ramsey or to see Jon Snow and his band of merrymen take down Ramsey?

Great thoughts on Tyrion. Interesting to ponder.

I guess I'd prefer Jon take out Ramsey. I'd hate to lose Ramsey as a character because he is a miserable pretty boy who is wonderful to hate, but it seems inevitable. I guess if the whitewalkers took him out, he'd turn into one of them, though, no? That could be interesting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 03, 2016, 11:13:10 AM
I'm fine with how they brought Jon back.  I don't really think there was a way to do it that would have not been cliche or predictable.

My problem was that it was too easy.  Just needed a lock or two of his hair?  Why shouldn't she just start bringing dead people back left and right now?  Shouldn't she have needed a rare herb or something?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 16, 2016, 12:17:05 PM
Wasn't particularly impressed last night. What did you guys think? On the bright side next week's episode seems like it should be great.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 16, 2016, 12:25:52 PM
It was nice to finally see two Starks in the same scene together again. Brimund could be entertaining.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 16, 2016, 12:56:50 PM
Wasn't particularly impressed last night. What did you guys think? On the bright side next week's episode seems like it should be great.

They advanced a few storylines significantly, had some cool scenes, and ended it with a GoT signature "oh sh**" moment.

I think Sansa pushing a hesitant Jon Snow, Baelish and the Vale coming back into the picture, as well as Dany, Tyrion, and Varys now joined by the Dothraki...all that made for a good episode to me.  Can't wait.  Suddenly the Ironborn and their ships look mighty important.

Also, anyone else think Jon Snow is clearly lying about seeing nothing when he was dead?  Like maybe he saw things that terrified him, hence his subdued and somber demeanor?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 16, 2016, 01:11:39 PM
They advanced a few storylines significantly, had some cool scenes, and ended it with a GoT signature "oh sh**" moment.

I think Sansa pushing a hesitant Jon Snow, Baelish and the Vale coming back into the picture, as well as Dany, Tyrion, and Varys now joined by the Dothraki...all that made for a good episode to me.  Can't wait.  Suddenly the Ironborn and their ships look mighty important.

Also, anyone else think Jon Snow is clearly lying about seeing nothing when he was dead?  Like maybe he saw things that terrified him, hence his subdued and somber demeanor?

definitely agree Jon is lying about not seeing anything. 
I wish they had a definitive moment of "we're going to war" from Jon. 

Suppose the Dothraki being loyal to Dany is interesting and gives her a pretty good force again to control Slavers bay after the unsullied have been decimated, but the Dothraki are still not going to travel over the seas so it doesn't get me convinced their loyalty advances her toward a battle in Westeros. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2016, 01:17:11 PM
Interesting that at the end it seemed like Dany could control the flame. Looking forward to the R+L=J confirmation that seems to be coming any episode now. Really like to see Jon kill Ramsey Bolton. Or anyone, really. Didn't think Osha had a chance, but figure he has to get his before long.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu-rara on May 16, 2016, 05:01:59 PM
They advanced a few storylines significantly, had some cool scenes, and ended it with a GoT signature "oh sh**" moment.

I think Sansa pushing a hesitant Jon Snow, Baelish and the Vale coming back into the picture, as well as Dany, Tyrion, and Varys now joined by the Dothraki...all that made for a good episode to me.  Can't wait.  Suddenly the Ironborn and their ships look mighty important.

Also, anyone else think Jon Snow is clearly lying about seeing nothing when he was dead?  Like maybe he saw things that terrified him, hence his subdued and somber demeanor?
daenerys targaryen for first women Pres of the US.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: real chili 83 on May 16, 2016, 06:12:57 PM
Pretty hot ending last night, a''Ai'na?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 16, 2016, 07:25:28 PM
Wasn't particularly impressed last night. What did you guys think? On the bright side next week's episode seems like it should be great.

Pretty hot episode if you ask me.  A lot happened.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 16, 2016, 08:01:31 PM
I swear I read somewhere that she was done doing nude scenes.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on May 16, 2016, 08:51:49 PM
I swear I read somewhere that she was done doing nude scenes.   

I remember seeing something about that too. Maybe this was already filmed prior to that announcement.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on May 16, 2016, 09:07:15 PM
I swear I read somewhere that she was done doing nude scenes.   

Actually, she was bragging that it was really her with no body double.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/emilia-clarke-nude-scene-game-of-thrones_us_5739ba27e4b077d4d6f37384


The actress also wanted viewers to know that the person you saw in the nude scene was all her, “all proud, all strong.”

“I’d like to remind people the last time I took my clothes off was Season 3,” she told EW. “That was awhile ago. It’s now Season 6. But this is all me, all proud, all strong. I’m just feeling genuinely happy I said ‘Yes.’ That ain’t no body double!”

It makes sense that Clarke is so open about the topic — the actress was once misquoted saying she hates doing explicit sex scenes, which she later corrected with a post on Instagram. She has absolutely no problem owning her latest nude scene, and she’s ready to talk about it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 16, 2016, 09:17:48 PM
I loved that entire scene with Daenerys. All the talk about how everybody was going to f--- her, including the horses, and then she burns them all to a crisp, emerging from the flames in her birthday suit. A really incredible several minutes.

I thought a ton happened in the episode and enjoyed it immensely.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 16, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
I loved that entire scene with Daenerys. All the talk about how everybody was going to f--- her, including the horses, and then she burns them all to a crisp, emerging from the flames in her birthday suit. A really incredible several minutes.

I thought a ton happened in the episode and enjoyed it immensely.

+1
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on May 16, 2016, 10:46:31 PM
I loved that entire scene with Daenerys. All the talk about how everybody was going to f--- her, including the horses, and then she burns them all to a crisp, emerging from the flames in her birthday suit. A really incredible several minutes.

I thought a ton happened in the episode and enjoyed it immensely.

I agree.

I think the early season episodes are the best since season one.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 17, 2016, 09:55:27 AM
I swear I read somewhere that she was done doing nude scenes.   

She's the only actress on the show that has a clause that she doesn't have to do nude scenes. I imagine that just means she has full right to refuse if she doesn't feel comfortable with it.

Really thought that was a body double when watching, though.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 23, 2016, 06:25:08 AM
So now we know what 'Hodor' means.    We know the rabid zombie ice army is baaaaadddddd.  I think I see how this all has to end, but every time I have thought that before some particularly gruesome death has occurred.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on May 23, 2016, 08:22:43 AM
Spent 45 minutes getting hyped that the Blackfish is finally returning.  Then...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjHwLWeWYAAor-W.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 23, 2016, 09:47:18 AM
Pretty interesting chapter. This season has really moved the plot along. Do we really know Hodor is gone? Will Arya truly become a faceless person? Littlefinger is now in Sansa's dog house. Sad to see another wolf die. Where will the Ironborn civil war lead to. Will Dany be happy with a Red Priestess in charge of Mereen?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 23, 2016, 10:40:14 AM
Pretty interesting chapter. This season has really moved the plot along. Do we really know Hodor is gone? Will Arya truly become a faceless person? Littlefinger is now in Sansa's dog house. Sad to see another wolf die. Where will the Ironborn civil war lead to. Will Dany be happy with a Red Priestess in charge of Mereen?

Plus, you will now have dueling Red Priestesses who believe they have found 'the one'.    (Cue Gaelic Storm Song "Don't go for the one")
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 23, 2016, 11:13:32 AM
Plus, you will now have dueling Red Priestesses who believe they have found 'the one'.    (Cue Gaelic Storm Song "Don't go for the one")

+1 for the gaelic storm reference. 

Wondering if the two red priestesses believing they've found the one is foreshadowing a Dany Jon marriage?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2016, 11:40:07 AM
OK ... I'm missing something here.

I've seen every episode but something has slipped my mind, and it was such a big part of last night's episode that my lack of knowledge (or poor memory) affected my enjoyment of it.

Why do the white walkers so desperately want Bran dead? Is he now "infected" with something white-walker related? And who were all the little people trying to protect him (and why)?

I know, I know. Roseanne Roseannadanna would say I ask a lot of questions. I'm a big fan of GoT but not one who studies every nuance and, obviously, not one who remembers every detail!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on May 23, 2016, 02:25:28 PM
OK ... I'm missing something here.

I've seen every episode but something has slipped my mind, and it was such a big part of last night's episode that my lack of knowledge (or poor memory) affected my enjoyment of it.

Why do the white walkers so desperately want Bran dead? Is he now "infected" with something white-walker related? And who were all the little people trying to protect him (and why)?

I know, I know. Roseanne Roseannadanna would say I ask a lot of questions. I'm a big fan of GoT but not one who studies every nuance and, obviously, not one who remembers every detail!

Here's a pretty good explanation.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/22/11740486/game-of-thrones-white-walker-other-wight
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 23, 2016, 02:39:18 PM
Here's a pretty good explanation.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/22/11740486/game-of-thrones-white-walker-other-wight

Thanks, brand. That was very useful.

And I feel good that I missed/misunderstood less than I thought. It seems lots of folks have lots of questions about the White Walkers, Bran's involvement, etc.

On to the next episode!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 24, 2016, 10:34:12 AM
Pretty interesting chapter. This season has really moved the plot along. Do we really know Hodor is gone? Will Arya truly become a faceless person? Littlefinger is now in Sansa's dog house. Sad to see another wolf die. Where will the Ironborn civil war lead to. Will Dany be happy with a Red Priestess in charge of Mereen?

Thoughts...
.
.
Plus, you will now have dueling Red Priestesses who believe they have found 'the one'.    (Cue Gaelic Storm Song "Don't go for the one")
Maybe, but not necessarily. Perhaps the one they are looking for is just one bloodline, which is the Targaryens. I'm working on the assumption that Dany (as we know) is daughter of Aerys II and Jon is her nephew, being the son of Rhaegar Targaryen (Dany's eldest brother) and Lyanna Stark. Perhaps the ones the Red Priests are looking for are simply the Targaryen descendants.

I also wouldn't rule out BagpipingBoxer's idea of Jon and Danaerys hooking up or even getting married. Not like it'd be the first Tarygaryen inbred wedding.

OK ... I'm missing something here.

I've seen every episode but something has slipped my mind, and it was such a big part of last night's episode that my lack of knowledge (or poor memory) affected my enjoyment of it.

Why do the white walkers so desperately want Bran dead? Is he now "infected" with something white-walker related? And who were all the little people trying to protect him (and why)?

I know, I know. Roseanne Roseannadanna would say I ask a lot of questions. I'm a big fan of GoT but not one who studies every nuance and, obviously, not one who remembers every detail!
Good article shared by brand. A few personal thoughts...the Three-Eyed Raven clearly had power that he could use against the White Walkers. He mentioned in this past episode that he was going to pass his lineage on to Bran. Now Bran has that power (though probably not as powerful or effective yet) and responsibility. The impression I get is that Bran is basically the most powerful of the skinchangers.

In the past, Martin has said there are basically four "safe" characters, two male and two female. My guess was those four were Jon, Danaerys, Tyrion, and Arya. Watching this develop, it certainly feels like Bran and Sansa might be making a case to be included in that mix, or supplanting the latter two. I love the development of this from season one. Thinking of what Jon, Arya, Bran, and Sansa have become, all powerful in their own right, thinking of Dany being the scared little girl married off to Khal Drogo, Tyrion going from clever, whoring drunken imp to political powerhouse.

Loved this past episode, though I can't help but think Sansa may ultimately die at Littlefinger's hand. So often, he has been allowed to live. He's probably the most dangerous character in all these books. Virtually every death and string pulled in Westeros was pulled by him.

Oh...one more interesting thing I read this week. Because of the death of Myrcella, there is now no clear heir to the Iron Throne were Tommen to die. As all of Cersei's offsprings' deaths have been foretold, have to figure this spineless one isn't long for this world either. Anyway...Myrcella's death leaves no heir, which means kicking back up the family tree. As Stannis and Renly have both died, there are no Baratheons at all who could claim the Iron Throne legitimately, so the claim falls to the Lannisters. Because Jamie is Kingsguard, he has forsaken his claim to the Throne, and Tyrion's crimes would likely discount him as well.

All this means the current lawful heir to the Iron Throne is...Cersei Lannister! Kind of makes you wonder if she might figure it out and off Tommen herself for the power. If there's anyone who could outdo the Mad King, Cersei might be it...
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2016, 11:43:14 AM
Wow brewski ... you get to wear the crown as king of GoT info providers!

Lots of interesting stuff in there, especially relating to Bran, a character whose situation has gone over my head a few times. This brings some clarity. It certainly looks like he's being set up to be a very, very powerful being.

Near the end of the episode, Bran's arm was glowing, as if he had been touched or "infected" by the White Walkers - at least that's how I interpreted it. What say ye?

After having read your very thorough analysis and the article brand posted, I think I will re-watch this last episode. Should help me see it more clearly.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on May 24, 2016, 03:03:37 PM
Thoughts...
.
  • Figure Hodor is really gone. Pretty traumatic way to go, and while an interesting character, not one important enough to keep around. Loved the twist that it was Bran's visits to the past that triggered Hodor's seizure and mental trauma that took away his speech, so that Bran essentially created the circumstance that made Hodor so tragic, while all along Hodor dedicated his life (and death) to protecting Bran and keeping him safe.

Very good post, Brew. The only thing I would disagree with is the bolded statement. As we have seen, several characters that we thought were very important no longer exist.[/list]
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 24, 2016, 06:29:41 PM
Very good post, Brew. The only thing I would disagree with is the bolded statement. As we have seen, several characters that we thought were very important no longer exist.

I more meant that they don't often go out of their way to save people. Thus far, the resurrection list is limited mostly to Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion. I suppose if you include the books, there's a case for Catelyn Stark, Gregor Clegane, and possibly Sandor Clegane. But my guess is they'll let Hodor's sacrifice be one last great memory of him, especially considering there's been literature this week saying that it was one of the three big "shock" moments GRRM told the producers about and that Hodor's death will be included in The Winds of Winter.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 02, 2016, 10:42:43 AM
I haven't watched any of this season yet but have been following this thread. I read this review of the latest episode and am curious if this is accurate:

This past week's show is a perfect example of how GOT is still brought down to typical television quality. After last week's great ending, this week they end it on another stupid repetitive Xena: Warrior Princess troop speech acting like anyone gives a crap about a giant obviously fake CG dragon flying in. The shots of the troops getting riled up were unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful. Put that crap in half way through, but to end the show like that is unforgivable. They did that crap a few seasons ago with her freeing the slaves. It's cheesy as crap, made only worse by her speaking in some made up language so you are having to read subtitles. It's like watching Xena, Hercules, or Army of Darkness attempt to not be cheesy or campy but failing.

All the plot holes and continuity errors throughout the past few episodes is a sign of the show struggling to keep the storylines straight. So the queen has been ousted for another heir by her troops... oh look she escaped with all the ships, her brother, and thousands of other troops who apparently ignored the other troops that decided against her with no explanation of how or why. Now her cousin that ousted her is going to have a few dozen troops build a thousand ships on an island with no trees in sight. And instead of her using the thousands of troops to just overthrow and kill the few dozen that revolted against her, she instead sails away to fight them later on once they've grown stronger in ships, men, and arms.

Oh, and by queen I mean the sister of the guy who got his d!ck cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing, not the queen that's the sister of the guy who got his hand cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing.


Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2016, 11:15:54 AM
I haven't watched any of this season yet but have been following this thread. I read this review of the latest episode and am curious if this is accurate:

This past week's show is a perfect example of how GOT is still brought down to typical television quality. After last week's great ending, this week they end it on another stupid repetitive Xena: Warrior Princess troop speech acting like anyone gives a crap about a giant obviously fake CG dragon flying in. The shots of the troops getting riled up were unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful. Put that crap in half way through, but to end the show like that is unforgivable. They did that crap a few seasons ago with her freeing the slaves. It's cheesy as crap, made only worse by her speaking in some made up language so you are having to read subtitles. It's like watching Xena, Hercules, or Army of Darkness attempt to not be cheesy or campy but failing.

All the plot holes and continuity errors throughout the past few episodes is a sign of the show struggling to keep the storylines straight. So the queen has been ousted for another heir by her troops... oh look she escaped with all the ships, her brother, and thousands of other troops who apparently ignored the other troops that decided against her with no explanation of how or why. Now her cousin that ousted her is going to have a few dozen troops build a thousand ships on an island with no trees in sight. And instead of her using the thousands of troops to just overthrow and kill the few dozen that revolted against her, she instead sails away to fight them later on once they've grown stronger in ships, men, and arms.

Oh, and by queen I mean the sister of the guy who got his d!ck cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing, not the queen that's the sister of the guy who got his hand cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing.

If you don't like it, don't watch?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on June 02, 2016, 11:33:12 AM
I haven't watched any of this season yet but have been following this thread. I read this review of the latest episode and am curious if this is accurate:

This past week's show is a perfect example of how GOT is still brought down to typical television quality. After last week's great ending, this week they end it on another stupid repetitive Xena: Warrior Princess troop speech acting like anyone gives a crap about a giant obviously fake CG dragon flying in. The shots of the troops getting riled up were unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful. Put that crap in half way through, but to end the show like that is unforgivable. They did that crap a few seasons ago with her freeing the slaves. It's cheesy as crap, made only worse by her speaking in some made up language so you are having to read subtitles. It's like watching Xena, Hercules, or Army of Darkness attempt to not be cheesy or campy but failing.

All the plot holes and continuity errors throughout the past few episodes is a sign of the show struggling to keep the storylines straight. So the queen has been ousted for another heir by her troops... oh look she escaped with all the ships, her brother, and thousands of other troops who apparently ignored the other troops that decided against her with no explanation of how or why. Now her cousin that ousted her is going to have a few dozen troops build a thousand ships on an island with no trees in sight. And instead of her using the thousands of troops to just overthrow and kill the few dozen that revolted against her, she instead sails away to fight them later on once they've grown stronger in ships, men, and arms.

Oh, and by queen I mean the sister of the guy who got his d!ck cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing, not the queen that's the sister of the guy who got his hand cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing.

One of the most worthless posts I have ever read here.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 02, 2016, 11:41:50 AM
I haven't watched any of this season yet but have been following this thread. I read this review of the latest episode and am curious if this is accurate:

This past week's show is a perfect example of how GOT is still brought down to typical television quality. After last week's great ending, this week they end it on another stupid repetitive Xena: Warrior Princess troop speech acting like anyone gives a crap about a giant obviously fake CG dragon flying in. The shots of the troops getting riled up were unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful. Put that crap in half way through, but to end the show like that is unforgivable. They did that crap a few seasons ago with her freeing the slaves. It's cheesy as crap, made only worse by her speaking in some made up language so you are having to read subtitles. It's like watching Xena, Hercules, or Army of Darkness attempt to not be cheesy or campy but failing.

All the plot holes and continuity errors throughout the past few episodes is a sign of the show struggling to keep the storylines straight. So the queen has been ousted for another heir by her troops... oh look she escaped with all the ships, her brother, and thousands of other troops who apparently ignored the other troops that decided against her with no explanation of how or why. Now her cousin that ousted her is going to have a few dozen troops build a thousand ships on an island with no trees in sight. And instead of her using the thousands of troops to just overthrow and kill the few dozen that revolted against her, she instead sails away to fight them later on once they've grown stronger in ships, men, and arms.

Oh, and by queen I mean the sister of the guy who got his d!ck cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing, not the queen that's the sister of the guy who got his hand cut off that she was unnatural carnal knowledgeing.

Although I could have done with one less pep rally from the Khaleesi, I enjoyed the episode and have enjoyed the season.

You, on the other hand, have been spared the horrors of this season because you haven't watched it. But you nonetheless have formed an opinion of what you haven't watched.

Sounds like you should not watch this season, give up on GoT and find something you prefer.

Hopefully that something isn't drawing more conclusions on shows/movies/plays/concerts you haven't seen.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 02, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
Although I could have done with one less pep rally from the Khaleesi, I enjoyed the episode and have enjoyed the season.

You, on the other hand, have been spared the horrors of this season because you haven't watched it. But you nonetheless have formed an opinion of what you haven't watched.

Sounds like you should not watch this season, give up on GoT and find something you prefer.

Hopefully that something isn't drawing more conclusions on shows/movies/plays/concerts you haven't seen.



Where did I "form an opinion/draw any conclusions"?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mikekinsellaMVP on June 02, 2016, 12:53:09 PM
Where did I "form an opinion/draw any conclusions"?

Maybe you should fix your OP.  It currently reads like the quote you're referencing is your opinion.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 02, 2016, 12:59:10 PM
Maybe you should fix your OP.  It currently reads like the quote you're referencing is your opinion.

I thought it was pretty clear but maybe now brandy etc. will find it clearer. I don't like using the quote box for that long of a quote because of the small text used.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mikekinsellaMVP on June 02, 2016, 01:32:46 PM
I thought it was pretty clear but maybe now brandy etc. will find it clearer. I don't like using the quote box for that long of a quote because of the small text used.

Understandable.  But don't hold it against them - that would be a pretty inflammatory opinion to have if you don't watch.

To your question:

I agree with the first point.  Dany got her big moment two episodes ago in an awesome ending.  The Khalasar are loyally following her to Mereen after that spectacle.  Why make them take a fealty oath in the middle of the journey just because Drogon showed up?  Feels unnecessary.  I thought the dramatic pause between scenes when Arya blew out her lantern for the night (after Jaqen gave the consent for her death) would have made a far better ending.

To the second point, it's fantasy.  It's a thousand pages condensed into 10 hours a season.  There's going to be gaps.  I can live with that.

To the third point, sib-on-sib action has been there from Day 1.  Let it go.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 02, 2016, 08:27:06 PM

Oh...one more interesting thing I read this week. Because of the death of Myrcella, there is now no clear heir to the Iron Throne were Tommen to die. As all of Cersei's offsprings' deaths have been foretold, have to figure this spineless one isn't long for this world either. Anyway...Myrcella's death leaves no heir, which means kicking back up the family tree. As Stannis and Renly have both died, there are no Baratheons at all who could claim the Iron Throne legitimately, so the claim falls to the Lannisters. Because Jamie is Kingsguard, he has forsaken his claim to the Throne, and Tyrion's crimes would likely discount him as well.

All this means the current lawful heir to the Iron Throne is...Cersei Lannister! Kind of makes you wonder if she might figure it out and off Tommen herself for the power. If there's anyone who could outdo the Mad King, Cersei might be it...

Great stuff.  Didn't copy all of it, but wanted to comment on the last of this.  Particularly the prophesy and Cersei taking over the throne.  I don't think she survives to. 

I think Tommen's prophesized death was symbolic; he has now chosen to align with the Church, who punished his mother.  I think that is his symbolic death.

I think Cersei will now see her own demise at the hands of the church.  I am a proponent for an epic battle between "the mountain" and "the hound".  For reasons I won't go into, I don't think the hound is actually dead, but is aligned now with the Church.  I think the Church, choses "the hound" as its champion, who finally gets to get revenge against his brother.  Cersei then loses her trial by combat and is put to death...ironically because of her own child. 

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 02, 2016, 08:30:22 PM
Great stuff.  Didn't copy all of it, but wanted to comment on the last of this.  Particularly the prophesy and Cersei taking over the throne.  I don't think she survives to. 

I think Tommen's prophesized death was symbolic; he has now chosen to align with the Church, who punished his mother.  I think that is his symbolic death.

I think Cersei will now see her own demise at the hands of the church.  I am a proponent for an epic battle between "the mountain" and "the hound".  For reasons I won't go into, I don't think the hound is actually dead, but is aligned now with the Church.  I think the Church, choses "the hound" as its champion, who finally gets to get revenge against his brother.  Cersei then loses her trial by combat and is put to death...ironically because of her own child.

I can't remember the exact details/protocol behind the trial by combat, but I think it'd be a great decision if the Church could choose Jamie.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 02, 2016, 08:34:50 PM
I can't remember the exact details/protocol behind the trial by combat, but I think it'd be a great decision if the Church could choose Jamie.

That would be pretty awesome.  But really think it will be Mountain vs. Hound.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 02, 2016, 09:40:06 PM
i haven't gotten into it, but my wife wants me to  :-\  so i thought i'd try to catch up on some of the scenes a little faster.  can we call this the cribs notes for thrones?

http://fortune.com/2016/06/02/game-of-thrones-porn/

no wonder my wife comes to bed every night looking at me funny...a good kind of funny though ::)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 06, 2016, 11:35:27 AM
  Return of the Hound.   Ian McShane is great in whatever he does.   His death clearly starts what will end up being a showdown between the Hound and the Mountain.   Lady Mormont is one bad-ass 10 year old.   House Tyrell is forever.   I knew she was playing the zealot.   She's good.    Seeing Jamie Lannister get punked after punking those incompetents made me laugh. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on June 06, 2016, 11:44:32 AM
  Return of the Hound.   Ian McShane is great in whatever he does.   His death clearly starts what will end up being a showdown between the Hound and the Mountain.  Lady Mormont is one bad-ass 10 year old.   House Tyrell is forever.   I knew she was playing the zealot.   She's good.    Seeing Jamie Lannister get punked after punking those incompetents made me laugh.

Lady Mormont is my biggest complaint about last night's episode. It wasn't believable for a kid.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 06, 2016, 02:30:43 PM
Thought we'd never get to see the Jaime / Blackfish Siege of Riverrun, being three years since the Blackfish was last seen and after that horrible Dorne excursion last season.  They did it well.  I need to hear one more epic quote, and I'll be thrilled with the entire thing.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 06, 2016, 04:28:03 PM
Thought we'd never get to see the Jaime / Blackfish Siege of Riverrun, being three years since the Blackfish was last seen and after that horrible Dorne excursion last season.  They did it well.  I need to hear one more epic quote, and I'll be thrilled with the entire thing.

I'll think Arya will survive and the House of black and white will think she is dead.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 06, 2016, 05:08:34 PM
  Return of the Hound.   Ian McShane is great in whatever he does.   His death clearly starts what will end up being a showdown between the Hound and the Mountain.   Lady Mormont is one bad-ass 10 year old.   House Tyrell is forever.   I knew she was playing the zealot.   She's good.    Seeing Jamie Lannister get punked after punking those incompetents made me laugh.

Agree with everything.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 06, 2016, 06:00:19 PM
Lady Mormont is my biggest complaint about last night's episode. It wasn't believable for a kid.

I rather enjoyed her, but I know a lot of very precocious little kids.

And I literally laughed out loud when, after all that back-and-forth, she said she only had 62 troops to offer.

I also guess I found Lady Mormont every bit as believable as dragons. Or White Walkers. Or Snow coming back to life. Or Tyrion being a bad-ass warrior. Or any number of other things that one finds in a fantasy series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on June 06, 2016, 07:27:23 PM
I rather enjoyed her, but I know a lot of very precocious little kids.

And I literally laughed out loud when, after all that back-and-forth, she said she only had 62 troops to offer.

I also guess I found Lady Mormont every bit as believable as dragons. Or White Walkers. Or Snow coming back to life. Or Tyrion being a bad-ass warrior. Or any number of other things that one finds in a fantasy series.

That's all fair. Just didn't hit home with me. If the actor was a few years older....15 or 16, I would have bought it
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 06, 2016, 10:06:29 PM
That's all fair. Just didn't hit home with me. If the actor was a few years older....15 or 16, I would have bought it

Okey dokey. That's fair, too.

One thing's for sure ... she's a hell of a lot brighter than that gullible dim bulb Tommen!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 08, 2016, 06:15:03 PM
That's all fair. Just didn't hit home with me. If the actor was a few years older....15 or 16, I would have bought it

Was it maybe a question of context? Did you have similar misgivings after Lady Catelyn left Winterfell with Bran in charge back in season two? When a scarcely older Bran was making house decisions for the Starks? Or was that different because you knew why Bran was sitting there and what had led to a child being in so influential a place and needing to grow up so fast?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 08, 2016, 11:10:50 PM
That's all fair. Just didn't hit home with me. If the actor was a few years older....15 or 16, I would have bought it

I can understand this.  A lot of the way I look at it is to remember it was a different age.  At 12-13 you married and started a family.  Kids like here were groomed from birth to be rulers/leaders.  They were used to tragedy death etc. 

It is tough for us to believe, but she was actually probably an actual portrayal of good child leaders then.  To us though, it looks like a kid pretending to be an adult and is unbelievable. 

Overall though.  Awesome episode.  Not a ton of action, but one of the best episodes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brandx on June 09, 2016, 12:20:51 AM
I can understand this.  A lot of the way I look at it is to remember it was a different age.  At 12-13 you married and started a family.  Kids like here were groomed from birth to be rulers/leaders.  They were used to tragedy death etc. 

It is tough for us to believe, but she was actually probably an actual portrayal of good child leaders then.  To us though, it looks like a kid pretending to be an adult and is unbelievable. 

Overall though.  Awesome episode.  Not a ton of action, but one of the best episodes.

Funny how we all see the same things differently. Other than Ian McShane and the Hound, I thought it was one of the weaker episodes.

But that is what makes the show so great - we all appreciate different things  that the show brings. For me - this has been probably the most enjoyable season since the first. Even the "weaker" episodes are still better than almost anything else on tV.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on June 09, 2016, 09:39:22 AM
I can understand this.  A lot of the way I look at it is to remember it was a different age.  At 12-13 you married and started a family.  Kids like here were groomed from birth to be rulers/leaders.  They were used to tragedy death etc. 

It is tough for us to believe, but she was actually probably an actual portrayal of good child leaders then.  To us though, it looks like a kid pretending to be an adult and is unbelievable. 

Overall though.  Awesome episode.  Not a ton of action, but one of the best episodes.

Haha, You know this is fiction, right? It was not a different age. It never happened.

I just find it unbelievable (in the literal sense of the word) that a child would have such confidence and intelligence. Yeah, dragons and magic and all that...none of it is real..I get it...I guess I just have some weird arbitrary limits on fantasy, and this one crossed it. Carry on.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 09, 2016, 09:48:24 AM
Haha, You know this is fiction, right? It was not a different age. It never happened.

I just find it unbelievable (in the literal sense of the word) that a child would have such confidence and intelligence. Yeah, dragons and magic and all that...none of it is real..I get it...I guess I just have some weird arbitrary limits on fantasy, and this one crossed it. Carry on.

From a period perspective, however, it is designed more to reflect medieval times, when all rulers were decided by birthright and children could end up in such a situation. Yes, it's fantasy, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a basis in our own reality. Not every kid will be Robin Arryn.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 09, 2016, 09:53:56 AM
Haha, You know this is fiction, right? It was not a different age. It never happened.

I just find it unbelievable (in the literal sense of the word) that a child would have such confidence and intelligence. Yeah, dragons and magic and all that...none of it is real..I get it...I guess I just have some weird arbitrary limits on fantasy, and this one crossed it. Carry on.

Yes, I do know it's fiction.  But the whole story was inspired by Martin's fascination with the War of the Roses.  Its period as Brewcity77 mentions is based on that era.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 16, 2016, 07:36:39 AM
So who's dying in the next two episodes? Any guesses?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2016, 07:47:44 AM
So who's dying in the next two episodes? Any guesses?

Got to figure Rikon and Ramses die.  Brienne pseudo-dies.

In another note, the last episode was pretty terrible in my opinion.  They set up so many possible epic battles and diffused them all in the most mundane way possible. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 16, 2016, 09:17:46 AM
I agree that Rickon is done for. Seems like Ramsey has to die, but I felt that way about Joffrey for a long time too. Wouldn't surprise me to see Tommen also bite it. Have to imagine his mother is none to pleased with his political move for the church, and son or not, she could very well send the Mountain after him before long (which would potentially trigger Cersei becoming the new monarch and a brilliant Queen Cersei vs the High Sparrow storyline for next season).

I think there will be someone unexpected as well. Maybe Sansa...the Starks finally claim victory over the Boltons only to see Sansa, the last known Stark, die. Gotta be a twist and extra death or two in the works.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 16, 2016, 12:28:44 PM
Don't watch the show or read the books....casually follow online and social media so I'm at least familiar.....any feel if the Lady Stoneheart storyline is going to happen on the show?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 16, 2016, 12:36:02 PM
Don't watch the show or read the books....casually follow online and social media so I'm at least familiar.....any feel if the Lady Stoneheart storyline is going to happen on the show?

I'd be surprised. Mostly because the Brotherhood hasn't been a focus either. Also because I think they want to do as little "reviving" as possible. Keep magic involved, but not dominant.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 16, 2016, 07:30:05 PM
Lame unfolding of the Riverrun sequence.  They disappointed Blackfish and threw away Edmure's defining moment by pretty much going the opposite direction of "Fish swim. Even black ones." 


Don't watch the show or read the books....casually follow online and social media so I'm at least familiar.....any feel if the Lady Stoneheart storyline is going to happen on the show?


Not after seeing Dondarrion still leading the Brotherhood.



I think the hidden something Qyburn found is going to be stashes of wildfire.  A desperate Cersei will want to "burn them all" Mad King style, and who knows what gets consumed once that stuff ignites.  Could see it killing Tommen, or even a repeat of Jaime being put in a position to stop it again, but instead of the Mad King it's Cersei he would have to stop if he chooses to save the city again.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on June 16, 2016, 09:12:09 PM
Don't watch the show or read the books....casually follow online and social media so I'm at least familiar.....any feel if the Lady Stoneheart storyline is going to happen on the show?

I think Arya will take the place of Lady Stoneheart and come back and lead the brotherhood without banners next season.

Don't think we will see that this season, but could be wrong. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 17, 2016, 11:49:02 AM
Jamie killing Cersei would be beyond epic and tragic at the same time. Brilliant thought.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 17, 2016, 02:11:01 PM
Arya is now a confirmed bad-ass warrior. She should emerge as a huge character ... unless, of course, she is killed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on June 19, 2016, 10:07:04 PM
Been avoiding posts to avoid even the hint of a guess of a spoiler.

Amazing and satisfying episode tonight. 

When all is said and done, I'm wondering if I'll like GoT more than Breaking Bad. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 19, 2016, 10:33:57 PM
Maybe it's just me, but have things become predictable? At least when it comes to overarching storylines. Seems like the writers (in having to go their own way) are making decisions to please fans. We're less doom and gloom and surprise deaths and negative events for "good" characters, etc.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on June 19, 2016, 10:40:31 PM
Maybe it's just me, but have things become predictable? At least when it comes to overarching storylines. Seems like the writers (in having to go their own way) are making decisions to please fans. We're less doom and gloom and surprise deaths and negative events for "good" characters, etc.

Or is it more unpredictable?  After season after season of waiting for the worst is something "good" happening necessarily for the fans?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 19, 2016, 10:58:05 PM
Also, how dumb is Rickon? Try running in a zig zag. Or turn around to see when he's releasing an arrow then change directions once it's released.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 19, 2016, 11:04:09 PM
Yes it's become a little more predictable but that's going to happen eventually. For what it's worth I've never been more satisfied with the death of a character. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on June 20, 2016, 07:18:27 AM
Also, how dumb is Rickon? Try running in a zig zag. Or turn around to see when he's releasing an arrow then change directions once it's released.

Ha ha.  My wife and I were thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Marqevans on June 22, 2016, 11:22:08 AM
Ha ha.  My wife and I were thinking the same thing.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Henry Sugar on June 22, 2016, 11:36:05 AM
Maybe it's just me, but have things become predictable? At least when it comes to overarching storylines. Seems like the writers (in having to go their own way) are making decisions to please fans. We're less doom and gloom and surprise deaths and negative events for "good" characters, etc.

Quote
Game of Thrones is no longer a show where anything can happen
It's more predictable now — but that's a good thing.

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/6/11865838/game-of-thrones-recap-episode-7-arya-broken-man
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 22, 2016, 07:14:08 PM
I LOVED this episode. One of my favorites. The war scenes were awesome and the final scene ... totally freakin' brutal (in an incredible way).

I think it's pretty interesting that the baddest of the bad-arses are turning out to be the women: Sansa, Arya, Daenerys, Yara, Brienne, etc.

And of course, I agree completely about Rickon. He had all the moves of Herschel Walker but none of the speed!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 23, 2016, 07:15:37 AM
Y'all think daenerys is starting to go a bit mad? Or was it just a quick homage to her father?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 23, 2016, 05:25:09 PM
Y'all think daenerys is starting to go a bit mad? Or was it just a quick homage to her father?

A bit, yes. Makes her more interesting!

A madwoman with 3 dragons at her disposal ... fun!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2016, 08:31:36 PM
Cersei is bad.  Wow.  But she didn't see THAT coming.  No more Lannister kids,
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2016, 09:25:46 PM
So, three clear camps, with the white walkers lurking.   Logically, the dragons can kill the white walkers.   Will Sansa choose John or Littlefinger?  The red wedding is avenged.  So... Where are the loose ends?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 26, 2016, 09:34:46 PM
Did I get this right that Jon is Robert Baratheon's son and Ned Stark's nephew? Looks like all the women are going to rule Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 26, 2016, 09:46:59 PM
Did I get this right that Jon is Robert Baratheon's son and Ned Stark's nephew? Looks like all the women are going to rule Westeros.

Lyanna said "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him".  Lyanna was "kidnapped" by Rhaegar Targaryen.  So Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, which is why the Kingsguard were defending the Tower in the earlier vision.  Given that Robert would certainly have killed him, Ned had to raise Jon as his bastard.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on June 26, 2016, 11:01:35 PM
Interesting to see the women taking over. Cersei in King's Landing, Olenna and Ellaria in Dorne, Sansa in the north with Jon, and of course Daenaerys and Asha/Yara across the sea.

Good episode, packed a ton in, though it wasn't near as action packed as last week. Feel like it's all finally coming together, with Arya back in Westeros, Cersei on the Iron Throne, Dany and the Dothraki on boats. Glad to see R+L=J finally confirmed.

Glad to see Tommen dead, really glad to see Walder Frey dead by Arya's hand, sad to see Margery go, looking forward to Cersei and Littlefinger getting the same from Arya.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on June 26, 2016, 11:02:07 PM
Lyanna said "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him".  Lyanna was "kidnapped" by Rhaegar Targaryen.  So Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, which is why the Kingsguard were defending the Tower in the earlier vision.  Given that Robert would certainly have killed him, Ned had to raise Jon as his bastard.

That's the way I took it as well.  Technically makes him the nephew of Daenarys too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 27, 2016, 09:31:22 AM
That's the way I took it as well.  Technically makes him the nephew of Daenarys too.

Also potentially makes him capable of withstanding fire and managing dragons, yes?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on June 27, 2016, 11:50:55 AM
Waiting for the final showdown.    Dragons vs Whitewalkers. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 27, 2016, 11:54:10 AM
That's the way I took it as well.  Technically makes him the nephew of Daenarys too.

And, also, the rightful heir to the Iron Throne before her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2016, 01:25:11 PM
That's the way I took it as well.  Technically makes him the nephew of Daenarys too.

Which I suppose would eliminate the possibility of a Jon-Dany marriage, no?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on June 27, 2016, 01:33:46 PM
Which I suppose would eliminate the possibility of a Jon-Dany marriage, no?

On Game of Thrones? Nah.
Dany's parents were brother and sister, after all.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on June 27, 2016, 02:35:50 PM
On Game of Thrones? Nah.
Dany's parents were brother and sister, after all.

True dat.

And we all know how Cersei and Jaime are celebrating Cersei's big victory!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on June 27, 2016, 03:42:36 PM
Which I suppose would eliminate the possibility of a Jon-Dany marriage, no?

When they reigned, Targaryens were legally allowed to 1) intermarry, and 2) take two wives (though the Faith pressured them into avoiding it).  So #1 is possible, and #2 explains how Jon could be true born and not just Rhaegar's bastard instead of Ned's.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 27, 2016, 05:08:34 PM
http://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/game-of-thrones-season-finale-recap-that-was-fire/?utm_source=desktop&utm_medium=sidebartop&utm_campaign=push
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 27, 2016, 08:45:18 PM
It's impossible for Jon to be the mad king's son right? Like this isn't going to be a "gotcha" moment next season...
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on June 28, 2016, 08:19:49 AM
When they reigned, Targaryens were legally allowed to 1) intermarry, and 2) take two wives (though the Faith pressured them into avoiding it).  So #1 is possible, and #2 explains how Jon could be true born and not just Rhaegar's bastard instead of Ned's.

Anyone know if George RRRRRR Martin had any siblings or hot cousins or something?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 28, 2016, 08:24:42 AM
 
Anyone know if George RRRRRR Martin had any siblings or hot cousins or something?

 :o
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 10, 2017, 04:14:51 PM
It's almost here people!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on July 10, 2017, 04:20:20 PM
Let the bloodletting begin!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on July 10, 2017, 04:28:13 PM
Let the bloodletting begin!

(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/XAS3fXoIsnXgVwhD3zBH5eopURE/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/03/02/860/n/1922283/139534cd9295788c_got1/i/When-Waiter-Asks-You-Need-Moment-Look-Over-Menu-Youre-Just-Like.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on July 10, 2017, 07:33:54 PM
I just finished rewatching season 6.  Very glad I did because I forgot many of the small things.  If you don't have the time for it I recommend watching recap videos on YouTube.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 10, 2017, 07:45:01 PM
It's almost here people!

You talkin' about the show ... or about winter?!?!?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 10, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
You talkin' about the show ... or about winter?!?!?

I applaud you sir
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on July 10, 2017, 10:44:26 PM
It's impossible for Jon to be the mad king's son right? Like this isn't going to be a "gotcha" moment next season...

I realize this is ancient, but Jon is the Mad King's grandson, and nephew to Dany. 

As for the rest of this thread. Can't wait til Sunday.  Been discussing random GOT theories with coworkers for the last month.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 11, 2017, 08:15:02 AM
I realize this is ancient, but Jon is the Mad King's grandson, and nephew to Dany. 

As for the rest of this thread. Can't wait til Sunday.  Been discussing random GOT theories with coworkers for the last month.

I figured as much, I just had read some weird fan idea and wanted someone to confirm it was a stupid theory.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on July 16, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
A girl takes her revenge.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 16, 2017, 09:08:16 PM
A girl takes her revenge.

The perfect beginning to the season


Also,  so much diarrhea
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on July 16, 2017, 10:39:08 PM


Also,  so much diarrhea

I noticed that there wasn't much difference between what was going in and what was coming out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 17, 2017, 07:26:00 AM
The perfect beginning to the season


Also,  so much diarrhea

I get that that storyline is fairly important but man is it boring. I wish he could just fast forward a season like bran and his training so we don't need to hear from him for ages
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2017, 08:33:54 AM
Fun, enjoyable season opener.

A few observations ...

I'm really getting a kick out of Lyanna Mormont. What a brassy little girl - reminds me of my daughter at that age!

As Arya approaches those singing men in the forest, I'm thinking: "Man, that guy has a great voice!" And then - boom! - it's Ed Sheeran!

I couldn't believe Sansa argued so vociferously with Jon in front of everybody. Jon's reaction was perfect, including his private conversation later.

Arya, Sansa, Lyanna, Cersei, Daenerys, Yara, Brienne ... that's one bad-ass group of ladies, as strong a group as has ever been on TV, IMHO.

Looks like Sam and the Hound will have expanded roles this season.

Not enough Tyrion, especially after he was featured so prominently in "previously on." I'd have rather seen a lot more Tyrion and a lot less diarrhea!!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on July 17, 2017, 09:11:23 AM
The diarrhea bit was as close to comedy as GoT has come.  Predictable, trite story arc there.   The hound seeing visions in the fire was a surprise.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on July 17, 2017, 11:51:09 AM
Fun, enjoyable season opener.

A few observations ...

I'm really getting a kick out of Lyanna Mormont. What a brassy little girl - reminds me of my daughter at that age!

As Arya approaches those singing men in the forest, I'm thinking: "Man, that guy has a great voice!" And then - boom! - it's Ed Sheeran!

I couldn't believe Sansa argued so vociferously with Jon in front of everybody. Jon's reaction was perfect, including his private conversation later.

Arya, Sansa, Lyanna, Cersei, Daenerys, Yara, Brienne ... that's one bad-ass group of ladies, as strong a group as has ever been on TV, IMHO.

Looks like Sam and the Hound will have expanded roles this season.

Not enough Tyrion, especially after he was featured so prominently in "previously on." I'd have rather seen a lot more Tyrion and a lot less diarrhea!!!

I completely agreed with the content of Sansa's argument though
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 17, 2017, 12:52:41 PM
I'm hoping Littlefinger is unable to turn Sansa and Jon against each other.  It seems too obvious so I hope they don't go in that direction. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2017, 04:36:36 PM
I'm hoping Littlefinger is unable to turn Sansa and Jon against each other.  It seems too obvious so I hope they don't go in that direction.

Little Finger seems to have a long way to go to gain Sansa's confidence and trust. He helped them win the war and yet she's still frosty to him.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on July 17, 2017, 06:57:15 PM
Great episode all around. The opening was brilliant and I love that they're paying it off from three seasons ago. Amazing that this is the same little Arya that was chasing cats in the castle.

I also hope Sam takes a backseat this season. It was somewhat amusing, but probably could've been accomplished in half the time.

Figure Euron is going straight after Tyrion. Part of me was waiting to see his ships in the background as Dany and Tyrion settled into Dragonstone.

Be interested to see if the surviving Stark children ever all come together. A bit surprising the remaining kids have survived this long.

Also amazing Cersei has survived. Sansa made a good point about how everyone who has ever come after her has died. Who would have pegged her lasting this long and sitting on the Iron Throne? Yet The North Remembers...

Other than the intro, mostly just setup, but a great episode in that they really gave a nice precursor to the season to come. Lots to be excited about.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2017, 08:11:07 PM
Great episode all around. The opening was brilliant and I love that they're paying it off from three seasons ago. Amazing that this is the same little Arya that was chasing cats in the castle.

I also hope Sam takes a backseat this season. It was somewhat amusing, but probably could've been accomplished in half the time.

Figure Euron is going straight after Tyrion. Part of me was waiting to see his ships in the background as Dany and Tyrion settled into Dragonstone.

Be interested to see if the surviving Stark children ever all come together. A bit surprising the remaining kids have survived this long.

Also amazing Cersei has survived. Sansa made a good point about how everyone who has ever come after her has died. Who would have pegged her lasting this long and sitting on the Iron Throne? Yet The North Remembers...

Other than the intro, mostly just setup, but a great episode in that they really gave a nice precursor to the season to come. Lots to be excited about.

Yeah, between the shuffling of books and the cleaning of crap, Sam was on screen way too much and doing way too little. I actually like the Sam character, but we could have gotten the gist in about 4 minutes.

How many episodes will this season have? Is it going to be one of those deals like the Sopranos' "final" season, where they split it?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 17, 2017, 08:53:01 PM
Yeah, between the shuffling of books and the cleaning of crap, Sam was on screen way too much and doing way too little. I actually like the Sam character, but we could have gotten the gist in about 4 minutes.

How many episodes will this season have? Is it going to be one of those deals like the Sopranos' "final" season, where they split it?

Only 7 episodes, unfortunately.  The finale is supposedly 80 minutes.

And 6 episodes for season 8, but I've read that the episodes could be 80 minutes long.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
Only 7 episodes, unfortunately.  The finale is supposedly 80 minutes.

And 6 episodes for season 8, but I've read that the episodes could be 80 minutes long.

Thanks. I wish they would just do it in one 13-episode season, but I guess I understand why they don't.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 17, 2017, 11:11:40 PM
Thanks. I wish they would just do it in one 13-episode season, but I guess I understand why they don't.

It's going to royally suck having to wait a year for the last episodes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 18, 2017, 07:17:25 AM
Anyone notice the dagger that was drawn in Sams book is the dagger used to try to assasinate Bran? Had to be a reason they did that
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 18, 2017, 03:10:11 PM
Anyone notice the dagger that was drawn in Sams book is the dagger used to try to assasinate Bran? Had to be a reason they did that

Didn't notice. I'll have to look for that when I watch it again.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: B. McBannerson on July 18, 2017, 10:20:58 PM
Great way to start the season.  Can't believe 2018 no Game of Thrones and we have to wait until 2019 for the final season. BOO. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on July 19, 2017, 10:27:25 AM
Great way to start the season.  Can't believe 2018 no Game of Thrones and we have to wait until 2019 for the final season. BOO.

Maybe we'll finally have The Winds of Winter by then.  :-[
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on July 19, 2017, 10:53:49 AM
Great way to start the season.  Can't believe 2018 no Game of Thrones and we have to wait until 2019 for the final season. BOO.

2019?!?!  Jesus. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on July 19, 2017, 11:18:16 AM
Great way to start the season.  Can't believe 2018 no Game of Thrones and we have to wait until 2019 for the final season. BOO.

So we get 13 episodes total in a 3 year span.  Ugh.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 19, 2017, 11:25:24 AM
So we get 13 episodes total in a 3 year span.  Ugh.

Wow I really hadn't thought about it like that. That's some crap right there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 24, 2017, 11:03:24 AM
So that's one interesting way to get rid of grayscale
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on July 24, 2017, 11:13:38 AM
So that's one interesting way to get rid of grayscale

Ugh everything about that storyline is dumb. So you're saying this ancient, banishment worthy disease can just be cured by... cutting it off? And we know about this but don't try it because the maester can get sick? And why does Sam care that much? Because he knew Jorah's old man? Even though Jorah more or less tells him he was disowned? Seems kind of insufficient considering Sam's other self-identified goal is saving the world through his study of a how to defeat an undead army. And Sam also has his own family. But you know, Jorah, you seem like a good enough guy that he'll risk all that for this stupid, dangerous treatment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 24, 2017, 04:11:12 PM
Ugh everything about that storyline is dumb. So you're saying this ancient, banishment worthy disease can just be cured by... cutting it off? And we know about this but don't try it because the maester can get sick? And why does Sam care that much? Because he knew Jorah's old man? Even though Jorah more or less tells him he was disowned? Seems kind of insufficient considering Sam's other self-identified goal is saving the world through his study of a how to defeat an undead army. And Sam also has his own family. But you know, Jorah, you seem like a good enough guy that he'll risk all that for this stupid, dangerous treatment.

Wasn't there a special salve that Sam had to whip up following some recipe that the maester said hadn't worked on a previous trial? If so, it's not about just cutting it off, but cutting it off as a precursor to the salve. And since the salve hadn't worked before (supposedly), it's reasonable to understand why others wouldn't want to try it.

As to Sam's motivation, Sam is probably the biggest goody-two-shoes in the history of the series. And yes, his family did know Jorah's.

Plus, they obviously want to get Jorah back with his Khaleesi, so they need to cure him!  ;)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on July 25, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Good episode. I liked the grayscale storyline. I like it giving Sam a reason to be in there, as well as another reason to eventually tie Jon and the battle with the Night King to Daenaerys and her dragons through the Sam/Jorah connection.

Also nice to see that Cersei won't be going anywhere without a fight. The anti-aircraft gun equivalent and crazy Euron are keeping the whole battle for Westeros interesting. Though it will be really interesting when Cersei has wreaked havoc on Dany's army only to realize that the army she plans to destroy is the only one that will stop the advancement of the Army of Darkness coming from the North. I think Cersei's storyline will be very interesting from here on out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on July 25, 2017, 02:02:01 PM
Ugh everything about that storyline is dumb. So you're saying this ancient, banishment worthy disease can just be cured by... cutting it off? And we know about this but don't try it because the maester can get sick? And why does Sam care that much? Because he knew Jorah's old man? Even though Jorah more or less tells him he was disowned? Seems kind of insufficient considering Sam's other self-identified goal is saving the world through his study of a how to defeat an undead army. And Sam also has his own family. But you know, Jorah, you seem like a good enough guy that he'll risk all that for this stupid, dangerous treatment.

I think you are selling this treatment/story line short.  Honestly, if you had to dissect away the entire surface tissue on what looks to be about 30% of the body, even with modern medicine survival and long term prognosis would be poor, and even with modern pain therapy almost unbearably painful.  In equivalent time periods, such a treatment would be almost certainly a death sentence and the pain alone could have caused a heart attack. Given that it also poses a risk to the Maester it is not a surprise that it is forbidden.

So extremely risky...not to mention as MU82 points out there is also some salve, likely containing a mix of natural sources of anti-virals/antibiotics. 

As for why saving Jorah, and putting himself at risk?  I think you underestimate the importance of Jeor Mormont to Sam.  Sam would have been left for dead if Jon (and Jeor) didn't fight for him to be a steward to Aemon and then Jeor.  So he likely feels a bit of duty to his former leader and mentor to do what he can.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 25, 2017, 11:25:36 PM
Loved how they did the sea battle. Euron is a little more mad than I pictured from the books but I kind of love it. The stare down at the end where Theon eventually crumbles was filmed beautifully and the crazy laugh from Euron sealed it.

Just gotta say, from a strategy standpoint, I think you should have at least one dragon flying escort when the brunt of your fleet is transportting your most valuable ally home to lead her armies. One dragon and that entire battle goes the other direction.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on July 26, 2017, 07:33:58 AM
Loved how they did the sea battle. Euron is a little more mad than I pictured from the books but I kind of love it. The stare down at the end where Theon eventually crumbles was filmed beautifully and the crazy laugh from Euron sealed it.

Just gotta say, from a strategy standpoint, I think you should have at least one dragon flying escort when the brunt of your fleet is transportting your most valuable ally home to lead her armies. One dragon and that entire battle goes the other direction.

Euron seems way too strong right now. Handles the sand snakes with ease? If I'm remembering correctly, these were the same girls who dominated bronn and Jaime. And what happened to their weapons being laced with poison?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on July 26, 2017, 08:06:58 AM
Euron seems way too strong right now. Handles the sand snakes with ease? If I'm remembering correctly, these were the same girls who dominated bronn and Jaime. And what happened to their weapons being laced with poison?
They were the worst developed characters on the show and were unbearable (even to their last scene in the hammocks). I'm fine seeing them go.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 26, 2017, 08:30:48 AM
They were the worst developed characters on the show and were unbearable (even to their last scene in the hammocks). I'm fine seeing them go.

+1
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 26, 2017, 09:57:18 AM
Euron seems way too strong right now. Handles the sand snakes with ease? If I'm remembering correctly, these were the same girls who dominated bronn and Jaime. And what happened to their weapons being laced with poison?

Its been three years since I read the books, but I seem to recall something in the books about Euron claiming to be immortal or gaining some otherworldly power from his time overseas. Maybe this has something to do with that? There also is significant difference to fighting on a boat vs fighting on land. Euron would have the advantage. He did seem to take some shots to the legs though that should have hamstrung him.

They were the worst developed characters on the show and were unbearable (even to their last scene in the hammocks). I'm fine seeing them go.

I do agree though, I think the Sand Snakes and their mother were the worst adaptations from the books. Loved Oberon but the rest of Dorne has been a let down.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on July 26, 2017, 09:57:38 AM
They were the worst developed characters on the show and were unbearable (even to their last scene in the hammocks). I'm fine seeing them go.

I don't disagree. That doesn't change what happened
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on July 26, 2017, 12:42:45 PM
Its been three years since I read the books, but I seem to recall something in the books about Euron claiming to be immortal or gaining some otherworldly power from his time overseas. Maybe this has something to do with that? There also is significant difference to fighting on a boat vs fighting on land. Euron would have the advantage. He did seem to take some shots to the legs though that should have hamstrung him.

I do agree though, I think the Sand Snakes and their mother were the worst adaptations from the books. Loved Oberon but the rest of Dorne has been a let down.

I believe what you may be referring to is him having the dragon binder.  The horn is said to kill anyone that blows it, but will bind any dragons that hear it to them as their master.  Euron seems to be a combination of Euron and Victorian in the books.  I'm not sure if the dragon binder or the horn of winter will make appearances on TV, especially since the producers want to downplay many of the elements of magic from the books.

I also agree that the Sand Snakes (like the dire wolves) are terrible adaptations from the books.  They (I think) will continue to be key deviations from GRRM and the HBO show.  The dire wolves are downplayed because they are too expensive and time consuming to animate; my guess is that fully developing the Sand Snakes took too much time and distracted too much from the main story line they were pushing on TV. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on July 26, 2017, 12:49:14 PM
Not exactly the cream of the crop there

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnryc4mymkOk5qw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 31, 2017, 09:27:25 AM
It would seem we're headed toward a stark reunion pretty soon.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on July 31, 2017, 09:59:24 AM
We are whittling down the field.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 31, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
So does anyone think sam discovers jons heritage in one of those old rotting books? Or discovers anything interesting?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 31, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
So does anyone think sam discovers jons heritage in one of those old rotting books? Or discovers anything interesting?

Well, he did discover a cure for Jorah's creepin' crud!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on July 31, 2017, 07:06:08 PM
Well, he did discover a cure for Jorah's creepin' crud!

And that Dragonstone was sitting on a crap ton of dragonglass.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on July 31, 2017, 07:21:19 PM
Timing last night seemed odd. So let me get this straight, at about the same time, Theon and Yara set sail for Dorne with the Sand Snakes while Grey Worm made for Casterly Rock. Presumably, Grey Worm had to have left first because his portion of the fleet got out ahead of Euron's arrival.

So then Euron attacks the ships headed for Dorne, probably catches them around Shipbreaker Bay, wrecks them, all but 1-2 ships, and he heads into Blackwater Bay to celebrate at King's Landing.

As all this happens, Grey Worm is still sailing around Dorne and back up the coast for Casterly Rock. Grey Worm arrives, sneaks into the Rock through the sewers, overthrows the city, and before they've finished mopping up a skeleton crew army inside the Rock, Euron has somehow left King's Landing, covered the distance he would have lost tracking back, and caught back up?

I just don't see it.

(http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/Map_Westeros_Political.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on July 31, 2017, 07:26:58 PM
Don't overthink it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on July 31, 2017, 10:23:52 PM
Don't overthink it.

My exact thoughts as I read brew's post.

Also, good call on the dragonglass, too. Those two events already have justified Sam being sent to the dusty library from hell. And yet I STILL hated them wasting so much time on Sam in the first episode; could have given at least 10 minutes to something more interesting without sacrificing the story line, IMHO.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on July 31, 2017, 11:27:48 PM
Don't overthink it.

It's poor storytelling. If they spread it out so it takes a few weeks, fine. Instead, we go from Euron capturing the Sand Snakes to his parade through King's Landing to the other side of Westeros (the long way, by ship) in under an hour of screen time.

And meanwhile, it seems like a day or two has passed for Dany. How long did it take for Ned and Robert to ride to King's Landing the first season? Seemed like it was weeks if not months.

I don't know, it's just a frustration as they go further and further away from published canon they seem to leave more plot holes and time discrepancies.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 01, 2017, 12:41:40 AM
My exact thoughts as I read brew's post.

Also, good call on the dragonglass, too. Those two events already have justified Sam being sent to the dusty library from hell. And yet I STILL hated them wasting so much time on Sam in the first episode; could have given at least 10 minutes to something more interesting without sacrificing the story line, IMHO.

Next episode should be interesting.  It will be the shortest GOT episode ever (50 minute runtime), but will likely have the largest and longest battle in GOT history. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2017, 07:12:12 AM
Next episode should be interesting.  It will be the shortest GOT episode ever (50 minute runtime), but will likely have the largest and longest battle in GOT history.

I don't remember seeing any hints of a battle in the preview. What makes you say there'll be a battle?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 01, 2017, 07:35:46 AM
It's poor storytelling. If they spread it out so it takes a few weeks, fine. Instead, we go from Euron capturing the Sand Snakes to his parade through King's Landing to the other side of Westeros (the long way, by ship) in under an hour of screen time.

And meanwhile, it seems like a day or two has passed for Dany. How long did it take for Ned and Robert to ride to King's Landing the first season? Seemed like it was weeks if not months.

I don't know, it's just a frustration as they go further and further away from published canon they seem to leave more plot holes and time discrepancies.

You must have missed how long it took varys to cross the sea, twice. Or Dany and her army. Or Jon snow from Winterfell to Dany. Or Arya.

Etc etc

The writers have stated that episodes aren't in a "next day" timeline. Whether between episodes or even during them
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 01, 2017, 08:05:51 AM
You must have missed how long it took varys to cross the sea, twice. Or Dany and her army. Or Jon snow from Winterfell to Dany. Or Arya.

Etc etc

The writers have stated that episodes aren't in a "next day" timeline. Whether between episodes or even during them

So Christopher Nolan directed that episode?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2017, 08:17:06 AM
Do we have a rough idea how long has passed since that fateful day Robert asked Ned to be his hand?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 01, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
I'm good with Euron being better in combat than we'd think, since he seems to be the combination of Euron and Victarion, who was really the one that would crush some skulls for fun. 

Do we know if Euron was actually at Casterly Rock?  If he sent most of the fleet ahead while he stopped at King's Landing it would make more sense from a timing standpoint. 

Think the Robert trips to/from Winterfell were supposed to be about a month each.  But they were traveling with the King's procession, which would seem to be turtle pace.

Glad the Sand Snakes are done.  Not sure why they decided to expand upon them in the series and either minimize or not include the actual interesting Dornish characters.  Kind of makes sense to do it in order to start to consolidate the plot, but a little disappointing that we may never hear from Dorne or the Stormlands again.  Or the Reach, unless you could Randyll Tarly, who is pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on August 01, 2017, 10:36:10 AM
I'm good with Euron being better in combat than we'd think, since he seems to be the combination of Euron and Victarion, who was really the one that would crush some skulls for fun. 

Do we know if Euron was actually at Casterly Rock?  If he sent most of the fleet ahead while he stopped at King's Landing it would make more sense from a timing standpoint. 

Think the Robert trips to/from Winterfell were supposed to be about a month each.  But they were traveling with the King's procession, which would seem to be turtle pace.

Glad the Sand Snakes are done.  Not sure why they decided to expand upon them in the series and either minimize or not include the actual interesting Dornish characters.  Kind of makes sense to do it in order to start to consolidate the plot, but a little disappointing that we may never hear from Dorne or the Stormlands again.  Or the Reach, unless you could Randyll Tarly, who is pretty awesome.

His ship was there, they zoomed in on it.  Leave "Silence" out of that scene and everything is fine as his fleet is so huge it's believable that only a part of it was at Casterly Rock.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 01, 2017, 11:02:04 AM
I don't remember seeing any hints of a battle in the preview. What makes you say there'll be a battle?

There have been rumors/leaks that suggest that this will be the episode that involves the big Jaime vs. Dothraki battle that was in the original trailers.  I can't give a 100% guarantee, but I feel quite confident on this. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 01, 2017, 11:11:54 AM
You must have missed how long it took varys to cross the sea, twice. Or Dany and her army. Or Jon snow from Winterfell to Dany. Or Arya.

Etc etc

The writers have stated that episodes aren't in a "next day" timeline. Whether between episodes or even during them

Many of those are since they went ahead of book, but the problem here is that Euron was following Grey Worm. If it's one traveler, it's easier to suspend disbelief or accept their timeline didn't exactly match up.

This is different. Grey Worm sailed to Casterly Rock. In that time, Euron met with Cersei, intercepted the Sand Snakes, destroyed half of Dany's fleet, sailed back to King's Landing, paraded through the streets, met again with Cersei, then sailed to Casterly Rock from an even further distance than GW, and arrived almost simultaneously.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on August 01, 2017, 11:13:45 AM
It's poor storytelling. If they spread it out so it takes a few weeks, fine. Instead, we go from Euron capturing the Sand Snakes to his parade through King's Landing to the other side of Westeros (the long way, by ship) in under an hour of screen time.

And meanwhile, it seems like a day or two has passed for Dany. How long did it take for Ned and Robert to ride to King's Landing the first season? Seemed like it was weeks if not months.

I don't know, it's just a frustration as they go further and further away from published canon they seem to leave more plot holes and time discrepancies.

OK, all that time has passed, so how come Cersei's hair hasn't grown back?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 01, 2017, 11:19:12 AM
OK, all that time has passed, so home Cersei's hair hasn't grown back?

Maybe she has simply decided to rock a pixie cut.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 01, 2017, 12:59:59 PM
Many of those are since they went ahead of book, but the problem here is that Euron was following Grey Worm. If it's one traveler, it's easier to suspend disbelief or accept their timeline didn't exactly match up.

This is different. Grey Worm sailed to Casterly Rock. In that time, Euron met with Cersei, intercepted the Sand Snakes, destroyed half of Dany's fleet, sailed back to King's Landing, paraded through the streets, met again with Cersei, then sailed to Casterly Rock from an even further distance than GW, and arrived almost simultaneously.


Perhaps there was supposed to be an implication that they laid siege to the rock for a bit? That or euron wasn't kidding when he proclaimed himself "the storm" and can create winds to make his boats faster
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 01, 2017, 01:45:13 PM


Perhaps there was supposed to be an implication that they laid siege to the rock for a bit? That or euron wasn't kidding when he proclaimed himself "the storm" and can create winds to make his boats faster

Could be, though they snuck in and took the Rock totally unaware, then as soon as they killed the skeleton force, Euron was in the bay.

I know, just try to enjoy it, but part of what drew me to the books in the first place was how they were grounded in a general reality with a side dish of fantasy that was fully explained. Similar to Glen Cook's Black Company books that GRRM clearly drew inspiration from.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 03, 2017, 02:52:36 PM
Saw a clip of brienne and arya fighting. Sansa was watching and did not look too pleased
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 04, 2017, 10:15:24 AM
Saw a clip of brienne and arya fighting. Sansa was watching and did not look too pleased

I wonder if Pod getting slammed to the ground is in losing to Arya.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 04, 2017, 10:22:01 AM
Saw a clip of brienne and arya fighting. Sansa was watching and did not look too pleased

Spoiler alert, Brienne gives up pretty quickly and ends up in a trash heap.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 04, 2017, 10:23:46 AM
I wonder if Pod getting slammed to the ground is in losing to Arya.

My 4never impersonation:

"More like Tri-Pod, ai'na?"
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 04, 2017, 10:59:19 AM
Sunday's ep has leaked and is on the torrent sites.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 04, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
Sunday's ep has leaked and is on the torrent sites.

You watch it yet? It's taking a lot of restraint not to
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 04, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
You watch it yet? It's taking a lot of restraint not to

I'm not watching the leaked version, mostly because that just increases the length of time I have to wait till the next episode.

Interesting that this was leaked (but not surprising that it was leaked today).  They haven't been putting the final touches on the episodes to 3-days before going live, to avoid completed leaked episodes.

Goes to show you that no matter what precautions/efforts you take, leaks are still going to happen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 04, 2017, 10:20:33 PM
You watch it yet? It's taking a lot of restraint not to

I downloaded it but decided against watching it.  Would rather see an action packed ep in great quality.

But I probably would have watched if it had leaked on Mon or Tues, tbh.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 06, 2017, 09:08:06 PM
That was absolutely badass. I was happy enough with the setup between Jon and Daenaerys, Arya's return to Winterfell and sparring with Brienne, but that ending...hot damn (emphasis on hot). Best episode of the season so far. Hopefully this is the start of amping it up a bit, we've seen a bit of a slow start.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 06, 2017, 10:17:23 PM
The one thing that stuck out and seemed very unlike the show was Bronn somehow avoiding all the dragon fire, Dothraki swords, and still being able to fire a perfect arrow/spear and score a direct hit.  Nice to see the Dothraki army actually look imposing.

Was really rooting for both Jamie and Bronn to get torched, but of course, they miraculously survive, while all their soldiers get roasted.

Maisie Williams did a great job training for her training scene.  She looked athletic and natural.  Same can't be said for big, klutzy, Brienne, who has never been believable as a great swordsman.  Nice to see her use some of the moves/poses taught to her by Syrio in season one.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 06, 2017, 10:26:33 PM
Only 3 episodes left. I love this f*cking show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 06, 2017, 10:37:51 PM
People who have read the leaked Season 7 scripts say episode 6 will blow this away and might be at the top of the list of best eps when all is said and done.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 06, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
People who have read the leaked Season 7 scripts say episode 6 will blow this away and might be at the top of the list of best eps when all is said and done.

Don't get how people can be that impatient to read the leaks.

That being said, and I'm no expert and will need to rewatch the series, but I think Hardhome may be my favorite.

Breaking Bad is my favorite drama. This has a chance when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 06, 2017, 11:25:25 PM
Don't get how people can be that impatient to read the leaks.

That being said, and I'm no expert and will need to rewatch the series, but I think Hardhome may be my favorite.

Breaking Bad is my favorite drama. This has a chance when all is said and done.

Haven't seen the leaks at all, but my guess is season 6 ends up being the bigger/badder/better version of Hardhome.  I'm guessing it is in either 6 or 7 where we see the northern battle that was in the trailers. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 06, 2017, 11:40:12 PM
I have zero interest in "cheating" and looking ahead. I enjoy not knowing what I'm about to watch - kind of like with sports.

I agree with brew that this was a great episode. Some good character development, and a lot of scenes featuring most of my favorites from the series. The final 15 minutes were intense as hell.

Plot-wise, it's gonna be really interesting to watch Tyrion. He has been loyal to Daenerys, but he obviously loves Jaime very much ... something's gotta give there. He was clearly uneasy watching Jaime's travails during the battle - to the point where he was "talking" to him from afar.

Kind of the way I shout at MU hoopsters through the TV ... except Nova and Butler don't have any dragons!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 07, 2017, 09:22:03 AM
I have zero interest in "cheating" and looking ahead. I enjoy not knowing what I'm about to watch - kind of like with sports.

The truth is they're called spoilers for a reason. They spoil the show and the viewing experience. What good is a surprise twist if you know it's coming? I try not to even watch trailers to movies anymore because they ruin too much. Especially if I know I'll watch it anyway, why bother? It only makes the product less enjoyable.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on August 07, 2017, 10:18:45 AM
How is Jaime going to get out of the water?  I doubt he can swim with a gold hand and a suit full of armor.  All I can think is Bronn saves him, again.  Unless Tyrion looking from afar is able to send some of his men after him to the bottom of the lake.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2017, 10:31:55 AM
How is Jaime going to get out of the water?  I doubt he can swim with a gold hand and a suit full of armor.  All I can think is Bronn saves him, again.  Unless Tyrion looking from afar is able to send some of his men after him to the bottom of the lake.

Well, like any TV show or movie, truth gets suspended a little sometimes. Especially in fantasies. I mean - Reverse Spoiler Alert - Jon did come back from the dead!

While I don't know if Jaime will swim to safety, he certainly might - gold hand, armor and all.

One thing I'm fairly certain of: As much as GoT likes to kill off major characters, I'm pretty sure they aren't killing off Jaime. Women fans wouldn't like that! (But notice how I only said "fairly" certain.)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 07, 2017, 10:58:44 AM
How is Jaime going to get out of the water?  I doubt he can swim with a gold hand and a suit full of armor. 

When his suit is full of plot armor, he should be fine.  :D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 07, 2017, 10:59:06 AM
How is Jaime going to get out of the water?  I doubt he can swim with a gold hand and a suit full of armor.  All I can think is Bronn saves him, again.  Unless Tyrion looking from afar is able to send some of his men after him to the bottom of the lake.

I could see Tyrion sending men to drag him out. He's more valuable to Dany alive than dead. I'll admit, though, I thought him and Bronn were both dead and could've easily seen it happening without a second thought from the writers. A bit surprised they both survived, albeit at the bottom of a lake.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 07, 2017, 12:46:48 PM
The question becomes if Jamie lives does tyrion help him escape the way Jamie did or will he show his loyalty to Danny?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2017, 01:02:13 PM
The question becomes if Jamie lives does tyrion help him escape the way Jamie did or will he show his loyalty to Danny?

Excellent question.

Of course, Jaime can live (somehow) and escape (somehow) without being Dany's prisoner.

Can't wait for episode 5!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Strokin 3s on August 07, 2017, 01:10:31 PM
Anyone notice the dagger that was drawn in Sams book is the dagger used to try to assasinate Bran? Had to be a reason they did that

And now it is back again....Lots of fanfare for this dagger.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 07, 2017, 02:05:12 PM
Excellent question.

Of course, Jaime can live (somehow) and escape (somehow) without being Dany's prisoner.

Can't wait for episode 5!

Possible but on the trailer it looked like they were still on the battlefield so I imagine it'd be hard to escape but stranger things have happened
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 07, 2017, 02:15:47 PM
One thing I'm fairly certain of: As much as GoT likes to kill off major characters, I'm pretty sure they aren't killing off Jaime. Women fans wouldn't like that! (But notice how I only said "fairly" certain.)

One thing you notice about GoT, when they kill off major characters, its often sudden and unpredictable.  Ned, Joffrey, etc... Jamie sinking in a lake going into the credits?  Nah.  If Drogon had connected and seared him into oblivion?  That would have been a jolt and an "oh sh*t" moment befitting of GoT.

"Flee you idiot. You idiot...you F***ing idiot"...some of Tyrion's lesser lines are his best
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 07, 2017, 02:38:34 PM
Possible but on the trailer it looked like they were still on the battlefield so I imagine it'd be hard to escape but stranger things have happened

See ... that's why I don't watch trailers. I didn't need to know that!!!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 07, 2017, 02:39:08 PM
Possible but on the trailer it looked like they were still on the battlefield so I imagine it'd be hard to escape but stranger things have happened

Jaime escapes through the Upside Down????
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 07, 2017, 02:47:34 PM
I am surprised they had no disclaimer stating that no animals were harmed in the filming of this episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 07, 2017, 03:03:00 PM
I am surprised they had no disclaimer stating that no animals were harmed in the filming of this episode.

Yeah, they are going to get a ton of hate mail from those wacky "Save the Dragons" folks.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 07, 2017, 10:07:04 PM
I have to assume Jaime is still alive (although with GOT I wouldn't rule anything out).  The main reason is plot development.  GRRM and the HBO writers are pretty well aware of both the overall story arc, and individual character arcs. 

Most of the surprising deaths, especially early on, were easy to set up by focusing on characters important to the overall story arc, that could die a surprising and important death. 

As the series proceeds, most of the overall story arc is created, and the rest deals with the arcs of individual characters.  Jaime has an important arc, mainly in relation to his need to fulfill a destiny (his page in the history books was almost completely empty and it pained him to have Joffrey point this out), and his devotion to Cersei and Tyrion.  The latter are at odds.  The former often manifests itself in duty/honor as captured in Brienne. 

There is a natural arc to set up a moment of Truth re. Cersei/Tyrion...Duty/Honor in relation to Jaime.  It has been set up for 6.5 seasons.  It would be exceeding odd from a story point of few to sacrifice this arc entirely.

That said, he really is in what seems like an unescapable situation, and GOT loves to kill of main characters...if he did live, I hope they deal with it in a somewhat realistic way and it would be nice to add to the arc (e.g. Tyrion saving him somehow).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 08, 2017, 10:22:35 AM
Apparently something mentioned by director Matt Shakman implied that Jaime survives when he stated "Jaime, especially, is a great soldier and realises this is going to be a new era."
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 12:17:10 PM
It's poor storytelling. If they spread it out so it takes a few weeks, fine. Instead, we go from Euron capturing the Sand Snakes to his parade through King's Landing to the other side of Westeros (the long way, by ship) in under an hour of screen time.

They never showed Euron at Castley Rock. Just Greyjoy ships. if Dany can split her fleet and send it two places I'm sure Euron can too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on August 09, 2017, 12:18:10 PM
They never showed Euron at Castley Rock. Just Greyjoy ships. if Dany can split her fleet and send it two places I'm sure Euron can too.

They showed his ship though and made a point to zoom in/focus on it, doubt that he just gives up command of that...
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 02:28:57 PM
They showed his ship though and made a point to zoom in/focus on it, doubt that he just gives up command of that...

See I just saw a big ship.  I'm sure there are many impressive ships in the iron fleet. I think if Euron was meant to be there they would have showed him doing one of his evil laughs. Pyscopaths are great for ratings.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 02:38:10 PM
Loved the last scene of the last episode. Thought it was done in a very realistic way...meaning if dragons were real,  that's exactly how id imagine one would use one in combat.

So many important things happened in that battle. Iron bank likely won't side with Cersei. Dragons introduced to Westeros in a very terrifying way. Tyrions loyalty to Dany is now in question. We now know that the scorpions can work against dragons and so does Dany. Dany will be a lot more hesitant with her dragons from now on methinks.

I think Jaimie gets rescued and captured in the next episode.  How will Dany handle having an important prisoner... Who also literally stabbed her father in the back.

What I liked the most is that I wasnt cheering for anybody during the battle.  I wanted both sides to win and neither side to lose. That's how well this show has developed all of these characters. I'm invested in most of them. I have no idea who I want to see sitting on the iron throne when this is over.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 09, 2017, 02:43:57 PM
Loved the last scene of the last episode. Thought it was done in a very realistic way...meaning if dragons were real,  that's exactly how id imagine one would use one in combat.

So many important things happened in that battle. Iron bank likely won't side with Cersei. Dragons introduced to Westeros in a very terrifying way. Tyrions loyalty to Dany is now in question. We now know that the scorpions can work against dragons and so does Dany. Dany will be a lot more hesitant with her dragons from now on methinks.

I think Jaimie gets rescued and captured in the next episode.  How will Dany handle having an important prisoner... Who also literally stabbed her father in the back.

What I liked the most is that I wasnt cheering for anybody during the battle.  I wanted both sides to win and neither side to lose. That's how well this show has developed all of these characters. I'm invested in most of them. I have no idea who I want to see sitting on the iron throne when this is over.

Almost positive the iron bank will side with cersei. They've made too many hints about the gold company for them not to be hired and make a big impact
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 09, 2017, 02:54:52 PM
Loved the last scene of the last episode. Thought it was done in a very realistic way...meaning if dragons were real,  that's exactly how id imagine one would use one in combat.

So many important things happened in that battle. Iron bank likely won't side with Cersei. Dragons introduced to Westeros in a very terrifying way. Tyrions loyalty to Dany is now in question. We now know that the scorpions can work against dragons and so does Dany. Dany will be a lot more hesitant with her dragons from now on methinks.

I think Jaimie gets rescued and captured in the next episode.  How will Dany handle having an important prisoner... Who also literally stabbed her father in the back.

What I liked the most is that I wasnt cheering for anybody during the battle.  I wanted both sides to win and neither side to lose. That's how well this show has developed all of these characters. I'm invested in most of them. I have no idea who I want to see sitting on the iron throne when this is over.

Agree on just about all of this.

I curiously found myself cheering both for the dragons AND for Jaime! I wanted Dany to "win," but I didn't want Jaime to get killed. I very much like the character, and I am dying to see how the Dany/Tyrion/Jaime/Jon situation all plays out!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 09, 2017, 03:04:15 PM


What I liked the most is that I wasnt cheering for anybody during the battle.  I wanted both sides to win and neither side to lose.

You apparently aren't involved in a GoT fantasy league.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on August 09, 2017, 03:14:36 PM
Loved the last scene of the last episode. Thought it was done in a very realistic way...meaning if dragons were real,  that's exactly how id imagine one would use one in combat.

Was anyone else thinking that Dany and the dragon should have made the second pass at Bronn from behind?  She saw the huge arrow that just missed them the first time.  That was the first thing I thought of when she was making her second her second pass.  (Of course its easier to think from your couch than in the middle of a battle).  I don't think he could have got that thing turned around in time, and there was nothing else threatening the dragon.

I am always thing stuff like that when watching movies.  Like why did Luke go miles down that long tunnel where he was a sitting duck and then take a shot that had to miraculously take a 90 degree turn to drop straight down at the precise right moment instead of just shooting at the opening from above it?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 03:42:01 PM
Almost positive the iron bank will side with cersei. They've made too many hints about the gold company for them not to be hired and make a big impact

The banker also repeated "when the gold gets here" like 12 times.  That gold ain't getting anywhere
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 03:45:08 PM
Was anyone else thinking that Dany and the dragon should have made the second pass at Bronn from behind?  She saw the huge arrow that just missed them the first time.  That was the first thing I thought of when she was making her second her second pass.  (Of course its easier to think from your couch than in the middle of a battle).  I don't think he could have got that thing turned around in time, and there was nothing else threatening the dragon.

I am always thing stuff like that when watching movies.  Like why did Luke go miles down that long tunnel where he was a sitting duck and then take a shot that had to miraculously take a 90 degree turn to drop straight down at the precise right moment instead of just shooting at the opening from above it?

Thank you!  I always thought that about a new hope.  But I'm pretty sure they showed Bronn rotating the scorpion so he could have kept it trained on Dany. Plus,  I don't think Dany  really controls the flying. Drogon is probably used to being the baddest thing in the sky.  He's just going to charge something head on.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 09, 2017, 03:58:27 PM
Yeah, they are going to get a ton of hate mail from those wacky "Save the Dragons" folks.

Actually during the battle scene a Dothraki horse was poked by a spear, Bronn's horse had his leg cut off by a Dothraki warrior and Jamie's horse was barbecued by Drogon. I lost count on how may humans were killed though.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 09, 2017, 04:09:51 PM
Actually during the battle scene a Dothraki horse was poked by a spear, Bronn's horse had his leg cut off by a Dothraki warrior and Jamie's horse was barbecued by Drogon. I lost count on how may humans were killed though.

I haven't looked but I bet there was something in the credits about no animals being harmed. That's usually where it's put nowadays
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 09, 2017, 04:51:36 PM
Thank you!  I always thought that about a new hope.  But I'm pretty sure they showed Bronn rotating the scorpion so he could have kept it trained on Dany. Plus,  I don't think Dany  really controls the flying. Drogon is probably used to being the baddest thing in the sky.  He's just going to charge something head on.

I didn't think it was viable in New Hope because it seemed like the trench they used ended at the exhaust port. Luke had to swoop up as soon as he fired. But I'd have to go back and rewatch.

That was an epic battle for the reasons mentioned. I wanted Jamie and Bronn to win, to lose, to die, wanted Tyrion to get swept into it, Dany to torch them all and also to get shot out of the sky. Martin has done a brilliant job at making so many sides sympathetic.

As far as Euron, I think that was definitely his ship. They zoomed in on it for a reason. Still a part of the storyline that irks me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 09, 2017, 05:55:26 PM
Was anyone else thinking that Dany and the dragon should have made the second pass at Bronn from behind?  She saw the huge arrow that just missed them the first time.  That was the first thing I thought of when she was making her second her second pass.  (Of course its easier to think from your couch than in the middle of a battle).  I don't think he could have got that thing turned around in time, and there was nothing else threatening the dragon.

I am always thing stuff like that when watching movies.  Like why did Luke go miles down that long tunnel where he was a sitting duck and then take a shot that had to miraculously take a 90 degree turn to drop straight down at the precise right moment instead of just shooting at the opening from above it?

Dany did go from a different angle/approach. Bron spun it around

They went through the trench to avoid the surface/tower lasers and to force any enemy fighters to come at them from one direction (behind). I think that was stated
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 09, 2017, 07:10:06 PM
Dany did go from a different angle/approach. Bron spun it around

They went through the trench to avoid the surface/tower lasers and to force any enemy fighters to come at them from one direction (behind). I think that was stated

(https://realradreads.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/john-green-gif.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: real chili 83 on August 09, 2017, 07:11:10 PM
Dany did go from a different angle/approach. Bron spun it around

They went through the trench to avoid the surface/tower lasers and to force any enemy fighters to come at them from one direction (behind). I think that was stated
h

Keefe, do you agree with the Alliance flight tactics?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on August 10, 2017, 08:50:18 AM
The banker also repeated "when the gold gets here" like 12 times.  That gold ain't getting anywhere

Randyll Tarly explicitly stated the last of the gold was through the gates of King's Landing.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2017, 09:33:12 AM
My son wanted to know why the wagons that the dragons set ablaze exploded, saying, "It's not like they were full of dynamite or gasoline or anything."

Maybe they had some of the stuff that Cersei used to blow up all of her enemies?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 10, 2017, 10:48:42 AM
Randyll Tarly explicitly stated the last of the gold was through the gates of King's Landing.

Really? I missed that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 10, 2017, 11:00:02 AM
My son wanted to know why the wagons that the dragons set ablaze exploded, saying, "It's not like they were full of dynamite or gasoline or anything."

Maybe they had some of the stuff that Cersei used to blow up all of her enemies?

I think it was more just rapid combustion.  It appears the fire has some thrust behind it.  So I think its a combination of very combustible wood objects being incinerated and them being demolished like if a large rock hit them.  I imagine if a catapult threw a flaming boulder, it would be similar, and the fire from Drogon might be even more concentrated.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2017, 11:16:03 AM
I think it was more just rapid combustion.  It appears the fire has some thrust behind it.  So I think its a combination of very combustible wood objects being incinerated and them being demolished like if a large rock hit them.  I imagine if a catapult threw a flaming boulder, it would be similar, and the fire from Drogon might be even more concentrated.

Or they could have had them explode just cuz it looked really cool. And that's OK, too!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on August 10, 2017, 11:51:34 AM
Lady Stoneheart sighting??

http://time.com/4895235/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart-arya-brienne-scene/

1:14 in this video walking in the background

Plus, did know know much about Littlefinger's family background from Braavos, and why he recognized the fighting style of Arya.

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Littlefinger-Braavos-Connection-Game-Thrones-43858266
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 10, 2017, 01:09:13 PM
Lady Stoneheart sighting??

http://time.com/4895235/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart-arya-brienne-scene/

1:14 in this video walking in the background

Plus, did know know much about Littlefinger's family background from Braavos, and why he recognized the fighting style of Arya.

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Littlefinger-Braavos-Connection-Game-Thrones-43858266

That article about littlefinger is seriously intriguing. Not sure if there's enough time for that much back story in littlefinger though. I think it's more likely that it'll be a book thing
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 10, 2017, 05:25:58 PM
This is a recap of Leslie Jones's running commentary through the last episode.  It's a little long, but it is spectacularly funny all the way through.  Going forward, I want to watch all new GoT episodes at Leslie's place.

https://www.youtube.com/v/tvcrwTcA5iw
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 10, 2017, 05:54:34 PM
(https://realradreads.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/john-green-gif.gif)

It's true
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2017, 09:16:45 PM
That article about littlefinger is seriously intriguing. Not sure if there's enough time for that much back story in littlefinger though. I think it's more likely that it'll be a book thing

The only backstory you need on littlefinger is that, in a previous life, he was Baltimore mayor Tommy Carcetti!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 10, 2017, 09:51:23 PM
This is a recap of Leslie Jones's running commentary through the last episode.  It's a little long, but it is spectacularly funny all the way through.  Going forward, I want to watch all new GoT episodes at Leslie's place.

https://www.youtube.com/v/tvcrwTcA5iw

Good stuff. Digging Leslie's Def Lep shirt, too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 10, 2017, 11:11:30 PM
The only backstory you need on littlefinger is that, in a previous life, he was Baltimore mayor Tommy Carcetti!

Well done.

He tried to convince everyone he was a good guy in that show too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 10, 2017, 11:48:18 PM
This is a recap of Leslie Jones's running commentary through the last episode.  It's a little long, but it is spectacularly funny all the way through.  Going forward, I want to watch all new GoT episodes at Leslie's place.

https://www.youtube.com/v/tvcrwTcA5iw

Usually not a big fan of her schtick on SNL, its a bit trite, but this was far more natural and really funny.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 11, 2017, 04:37:39 PM
Usually not a big fan of her schtick on SNL, its a bit trite, but this was far more natural and really funny.

Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/SQ44aQWnH4I
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 11, 2017, 07:19:44 PM
Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/SQ44aQWnH4I

Yea, didn't do much for me.  Not my cup of tea I guess.  I thought Dinkleage was much funnier than her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: real chili 83 on August 12, 2017, 05:28:17 AM
Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/v/SQ44aQWnH4I

I hope the camera operator was wearing safety gear.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 12, 2017, 12:03:42 PM
Usually not a big fan of her schtick on SNL, its a bit trite, but this was far more natural and really funny.

On SNL, Jones is either shouting or struggling to find her cue cards.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on August 13, 2017, 09:51:47 PM
Littlefinger and Arya are headed for a showdown.    Way to pull the bastard son of Robert Baratheon out of a hat.    I'm not sure that the plan to go capture a single white walker is the best.   And am I the only one who thinks (1) The Baratheon bastard looks like a young Christian Bale, (2) The crew going out past the wall is reminiscent of the Magnificent 7?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 13, 2017, 10:47:29 PM
*Littlefinger and Sansa
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 13, 2017, 11:10:01 PM
Littlefinger and Arya are headed for a showdown.    Way to pull the bastard son of Robert Baratheon out of a hat.    I'm not sure that the plan to go capture a single white walker is the best.   And am I the only one who thinks (1) The Baratheon bastard looks like a young Christian Bale, (2) The crew going out past the wall is reminiscent of the Magnificent 7?

Absolutely looks like Bale.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 14, 2017, 12:34:59 AM
Absolutely looks like Bale.

Interestingly enough, I was really into a British show called Skins about 8-10 years ago.  Revolved around wild 17 year old teens in Bristol, but dealt with a lot of dark real life issues.  Both the actor who plays Gendry as well as the actress who plays Gilly were in the original main cast.  In addition to Dev Patel (Slumdog Millionaire, Lion, The Newsroom) and Nicholas Hoult (Beast from X Men, Mad Max).  One of the minor characters was the actor who played the lead in Get Out.  Pretty crazy success rate for launching young Brit actors.

Back on topic, very interesting to see Bronn playing both sides again.  Also, in my opinion, the Stannis storyline was boring and never that engaging, but since his demise, Davos has become one of my favorite characters.  His scenes with Gendry tonight were fantastic.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 14, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
With only 9 episodes left a new Littlefinger scheme has me pounding my head. His schtick has grown old on me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 14, 2017, 07:51:27 AM
A great episode.

The biggest revelation being that Jon Snow - rather than Dani - is the rightful heir to the iron throne.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 14, 2017, 08:11:19 AM
I used to be in the pro Danny Jon romance camp but it's getting played up like an Disney channel Jr high romance at this point. I'd honestly prefer it almost to be a begrudging political marriage over the doe eyed goodbyes and candle light cave art dates
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2017, 08:56:52 AM
A great episode.

The biggest revelation being that Jon Snow - rather than Dani - is the rightful heir to the iron throne.

And totally glossed over by Sam. As soon as Gilly was cut off I started screaming "No, that's huge, that's huge!" Rhaegar marrying Lyanna means Jon isn't a bastard and is the legitimate Targaryean heir, since Rhaegar would've been first in line after the Mad King.

At this point, I just want to see Arya go on a killing spree. Kill Littlefinger, Cersei, the Mountain, and anyone else left on the list. I keep feeling like somehow, when all is said and done, Cersei or her child will still be sitting on the Iron Throne.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on August 14, 2017, 10:05:00 AM
I used to be in the pro Danny Jon romance camp but it's getting played up like an Disney channel Jr high romance at this point. I'd honestly prefer it almost to be a begrudging political marriage over the doe eyed goodbyes and candle light cave art dates

I did really like Dany's moment with Jorah before said doe eyed goodbye though. That was a cool, loaded moment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 14, 2017, 10:10:33 AM
And totally glossed over by Sam. As soon as Gilly was cut off I started screaming "No, that's huge, that's huge!" Rhaegar marrying Lyanna means Jon isn't a bastard and is the legitimate Targaryean heir, since Rhaegar would've been first in line after the Mad King.

At this point, I just want to see Arya go on a killing spree. Kill Littlefinger, Cersei, the Mountain, and anyone else left on the list. I keep feeling like somehow, when all is said and done, Cersei or her child will still be sitting on the Iron Throne.

I think it was intentionally downplayed although the interaction between Jon and the dragon should have shown Dani than Snow was a Targaryen.

As far as Cersei goes, my guess is that there will come a moment in the final season when she turns on Jamie and one of them will die.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on August 14, 2017, 10:12:28 AM
Jamie has already killed one mad king for the good of the realm.    Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 14, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Jamie has already killed one mad king for the good of the realm.    Just sayin'.
You're quite prophetic (wink wink).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 14, 2017, 11:24:16 AM
Jamie has already killed one mad king for the good of the realm.    Just sayin'.

I've had that same thought, Tower.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: WarriorInNYC on August 14, 2017, 12:10:24 PM
And totally glossed over by Sam. As soon as Gilly was cut off I started screaming "No, that's huge, that's huge!" Rhaegar marrying Lyanna means Jon isn't a bastard and is the legitimate Targaryean heir, since Rhaegar would've been first in line after the Mad King.

At this point, I just want to see Arya go on a killing spree. Kill Littlefinger, Cersei, the Mountain, and anyone else left on the list. I keep feeling like somehow, when all is said and done, Cersei or her child will still be sitting on the Iron Throne.

But to be fair to Sam, that really wouldn't be that big of a deal to him, right?  Since he has no inclination other than Jon Snow is Ned Stark's bastard.

Additionally, and I won't pretend to know this, especially in fictional realms, but would the son of a king's firstborn be further ahead in line rather than the king's daughter?  I'm guessing so, as why else would they drop that bit of knowledge in the episode. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2017, 01:02:06 PM
But to be fair to Sam, that really wouldn't be that big of a deal to him, right?  Since he has no inclination other than Jon Snow is Ned Stark's bastard.

Additionally, and I won't pretend to know this, especially in fictional realms, but would the son of a king's firstborn be further ahead in line rather than the king's daughter?  I'm guessing so, as why else would they drop that bit of knowledge in the episode.

If I'm reading it right, once the Mad King died, it would first go to Rhaegar. As he was dead, the lineage would follow him first, so any legitimate surviving children of Rhaegar would be the first heir. His line was exhausted because the Mountain killed Rhaegar's known wife, Elia Martell, and her children. Then it would go to Viserys (second born) and any of his children, then Dany (third born) and any of her children.

However, last night we learned that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and he was presumably married to Lyanna Stark. That means the line of succession goes back to Rhaegar and any legitimate children he had. Because Jon is now a legitimate heir to Rhaegar, his claim would supersede any Dany has.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 14, 2017, 01:07:59 PM
Jamie has already killed one mad king for the good of the realm.    Just sayin'.

But which Mad "King"?

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2017/8/14/16143688/game-of-thrones-daenerys-targaryen-episode-5-eastwatch (https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2017/8/14/16143688/game-of-thrones-daenerys-targaryen-episode-5-eastwatch)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: WarriorInNYC on August 14, 2017, 01:15:16 PM
If I'm reading it right, once the Mad King died, it would first go to Rhaegar. As he was dead, the lineage would follow him first, so any legitimate surviving children of Rhaegar would be the first heir. His line was exhausted because the Mountain killed Rhaegar's known wife, Elia Martell, and her children. Then it would go to Viserys (second born) and any of his children, then Dany (third born) and any of her children.

However, last night we learned that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and he was presumably married to Lyanna Stark. That means the line of succession goes back to Rhaegar and any legitimate children he had. Because Jon is now a legitimate heir to Rhaegar, his claim would supersede any Dany has.

Gotcha, I haven't read any of the books and don't read a ton of other stuff about it, so I was unsure on the timing of deaths.

I thought Rhaegar was killed prior to the Mad King dying, so then it would go to Viserys and then Dany, instead of going down Rhaegar's line.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2017, 02:44:30 PM
Gotcha, I haven't read any of the books and don't read a ton of other stuff about it, so I was unsure on the timing of deaths.

I thought Rhaegar was killed prior to the Mad King dying, so then it would go to Viserys and then Dany, instead of going down Rhaegar's line.

It's all semantic. Rhaegar was killed before the Mad King died, but as no Targaryean assumed the throne, I imagine any contention over the line would start once Cersei was removed from the Iron Throne. At that point, Jon is first in line. Will be interesting to see how that's handled.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 14, 2017, 04:43:46 PM
If I'm reading it right, once the Mad King died, it would first go to Rhaegar. As he was dead, the lineage would follow him first, so any legitimate surviving children of Rhaegar would be the first heir. His line was exhausted because the Mountain killed Rhaegar's known wife, Elia Martell, and her children. Then it would go to Viserys (second born) and any of his children, then Dany (third born) and any of her children.

However, last night we learned that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and he was presumably married to Lyanna Stark. That means the line of succession goes back to Rhaegar and any legitimate children he had. Because Jon is now a legitimate heir to Rhaegar, his claim would supersede any Dany has.

I'm going to assume that much of this will not take place in the books, as it is largely unnecessary.  Targaryean's were allowed to take multiple wives, and did...including marrying two of their sisters.  Incest and polygamy were not a problem with the Targaryean kings.

So there would be no problem with Rhaegar taking a second wife.  And the idea of "annulment" probably didn't exist in their culture.  But since a lot of these back stories are not well developed in the show the "annulment" serves as a useful tool to prove Jon is the rightful heir.

Along these lines though, the concern about what the people would think of Cersei and Jamie's child is also overblown given the history of Targaryean's marrying within the family to keep the bloodline clean.  After all, Dany even says at one point that she always assumed she would marry Viserys.

Which makes me think they might not go there re. Dany/Jon as the history of this being accepted is not well developed on the show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 14, 2017, 05:10:10 PM
I was a little tired when I finally got around to watching the episode at midnight, and the whole Jon being the rightful heir thing went over my head. I now have to re-watch it. Which I like to do, anyway!

So thanks, everybody.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 15, 2017, 09:32:07 AM
So how did Jamie and Bronn get from (while underwater) one side of the lake to the other with his set of armor and huge sword weighing him down?

And when they get out of the water, they barely seem tired?  C'mon.

Best acted scene in the ep was between Dany and Jorah.   Seeing Tyrion and Jamie get a scene together was nice, too.

Sure hope there isn't an annoying fan fiction-like Dany/Jon Snow romance. 

The Davos/Gendry comedy routine went on too long and was obviously episode padding.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 15, 2017, 09:38:06 AM
So random thought about the Fellowship/Suicide Squad. The majority of these guys are essentially undead in some way or another. The hound was essentially dead before a miracle, John and Berrick were actually dead, Jorah was a dead man walking for all intensive purposes, Gendry was a similar case when he was sold to the red priestess and Stannis. I don't recall anything with Tormund or Thoros being "born again" but I don't think that this is a coincidence that this much of the group has died/been essentially dead and is about to face a massive army of the dead.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 15, 2017, 09:39:20 AM
So how did Jamie and Bronn get from (while underwater) one side of the lake to the other with his set of armor and huge sword weighing him down?

And when they get out of the water, they barely seem tired?  C'mon.

Every time I find myself asking such questions, I remind myself I'm watching a show with dragons, giants, smoke monsters, witches with the power of resurrection, and a zombie army led by an 8,000-year-old ghoul.
Given all that, believing a guy can swim a few hundred yards wearing armor isn't all that difficult.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 15, 2017, 08:14:46 PM
So random thought about the Fellowship/Suicide Squad. The majority of these guys are essentially undead in some way or another. The hound was essentially dead before a miracle, John and Berrick were actually dead, Jorah was a dead man walking for all intensive purposes, Gendry was a similar case when he was sold to the red priestess and Stannis. I don't recall anything with Tormund or Thoros being "born again" but I don't think that this is a coincidence that this much of the group has died/been essentially dead and is about to face a massive army of the dead.

Interesting thought. Me likey.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 16, 2017, 07:09:33 AM
New episode was leaked
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on August 16, 2017, 09:03:17 AM
New episode was leaked

Personally I like waiting til Sunday night.  Gives me something to look forward to before Monday  comes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 16, 2017, 09:02:24 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 16, 2017, 09:47:58 PM
Found this pretty hilarious as it pertains to the geographic and timeline discrepancies in Thrones

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHTfFRnUIAAQ45u.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: buckchuckler on August 16, 2017, 10:16:05 PM
Found this pretty hilarious as it pertains to the geographic and timeline discrepancies in Thrones

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHTfFRnUIAAQ45u.jpg)

They are mostly frozen, and therefore must move slowly.  Duh.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 16, 2017, 10:48:07 PM
Wow.

Leaked episode?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 16, 2017, 11:14:52 PM
Leaked episode?

Yes, it lives up to the hype, and then some.  I'm leaving for a vacation, so I wasn't going to be able to see it on Sunday, and didn't want anything spoiled, so I watched.

I would advise to stay off of youtube.  People are posting all the important scenes with the spoilers in the title, just to be jerks.

The picture quality is really good, btw. 

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 16, 2017, 11:57:37 PM
Yes, it lives up to the hype, and then some.  I'm leaving for a vacation, so I wasn't going to be able to see it on Sunday, and didn't want anything spoiled, so I watched.

I would advise to stay off of youtube.  People are posting all the important scenes with the spoilers in the title, just to be jerks.

The picture quality is really good, btw.

Can't wait.

This show has the potential to surpass Breaking Bad as my favorite drama of all time.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 17, 2017, 07:40:11 AM
Yes, it lives up to the hype, and then some.  I'm leaving for a vacation, so I wasn't going to be able to see it on Sunday, and didn't want anything spoiled, so I watched.

I would advise to stay off of youtube.  People are posting all the important scenes with the spoilers in the title, just to be jerks.

The picture quality is really good, btw.

Yeah I watched it. My haw was on the floor pretty much the whole time. I'd honestly watch that episode over 5 of the lord of the rings movies
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 17, 2017, 08:47:06 AM
Yeah I watched it. My haw was on the floor pretty much the whole time. I'd honestly watch that episode over 5 of the lord of the rings movies

Okay, knock it off.  I am respectfully requesting an end to these comments as I would like to watch it in a legitimate manner - with my HBO subscription.

Also, why do you think it is okay to take delivery of stolen goods here?  Is it any different than buying a TV that "fell off the truck"?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 17, 2017, 09:38:46 AM
Well these are HBO subscribers I'm guessing so stealing is a reach, more like people watching on Sunday had it on layaway all week?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 17, 2017, 09:49:00 AM
Okay, knock it off.  I am respectfully requesting an end to these comments as I would like to watch it in a legitimate manner - with my HBO subscription.

Also, why do you think it is okay to take delivery of stolen goods here?  Is it any different than buying a TV that "fell off the truck"?

To be fair, it sounds like HBO pushed the TVs off the truck in Spain.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 17, 2017, 10:04:39 AM
Well these are HBO subscribers I'm guessing so stealing is a reach, more like people watching on Sunday had it on layaway all week?

Are they all subscribers?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 17, 2017, 10:15:15 AM
Okay, knock it off.  I am respectfully requesting an end to these comments as I would like to watch it in a legitimate manner - with my HBO subscription.

Also, why do you think it is okay to take delivery of stolen goods here?  Is it any different than buying a TV that "fell off the truck"?

A) I said nothing that gave away anything. Outside of it being a great episode. I'd never post a spoiler, respect everyone's wishes to watch at their own pace. What I said was no different than my roommate telling me to go see Dunkirk because it was a fantastic movie and better than saving private Ryan.

B) I pay for HBO, thus it's not stolen. It'd be like me buying something and going to the warehouse to take it before it comes out officially. I did pay for it, just didn't wait for the shipment.

C) is the reason you're singling me out because you know I'm in my mid 20s whereas the other individual is an unknown age and thus you can't "mom them"?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 17, 2017, 10:21:07 AM
A) I said nothing that gave away anything. Outside of it being a great episode. I'd never post a spoiler, respect everyone's wishes to watch at their own pace. What I said was no different than my roommate telling me to go see Dunkirk because it was a fantastic movie and better than saving private Ryan.

B) I pay for HBO, thus it's not stolen. It'd be like me buying something and going to the warehouse to take it before it comes out officially. I did pay for it, just didn't wait for the shipment.

C) is the reason you're singling me out because you know I'm in my mid 20s whereas the other individual is an unknown age and thus you can't "mom them"?

It was a general comment.  Not a big fan of any non-authorized streaming of music, video, etc.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 17, 2017, 10:25:09 AM
It was a general comment.  Not a big fan of any non-authorized streaming of music, video, etc.

The only things I non authorize download are original EPs that aren't available anymore which amounts to roughly 5 songs and that band has gotten loads of money from me with tshirts, tickets, cds and Spotify. Beyond that I pay for Spotify pay for Amazing prime pay for Netflix etc.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 17, 2017, 10:34:04 AM
The only things I non authorize download are original EPs that aren't available anymore which amounts to roughly 5 songs and that band has gotten loads of money from me with tshirts, tickets, cds and Spotify. Beyond that I pay for Spotify pay for Amazing prime pay for Netflix etc.

Well, then...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/yoc9m1LJkjwxW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 20, 2017, 08:17:25 AM
Can't wait for tonight!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on August 20, 2017, 08:59:26 PM
Oh, my.  So what will the zombie ice dragon shoot out of its mouth?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 20, 2017, 09:33:03 PM
Quite the nutty episode.  Did not expect a dragon to go down and be turned...but really good that they got the dragon/army of the dead interaction in.  Was not expecting that until the very end of the series, and really ups the stakes now.

As far as the accelerated timing, it put Euron's teleportation to shame...apparently "send a Raven" now means a text message and dragons are equipped with hyperdrive. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 20, 2017, 09:50:23 PM
Quite the nutty episode.  Did not expect a dragon to go down and be turned...but really good that they got the dragon/army of the dead interaction in.  Was not expecting that until the very end of the series, and really ups the stakes now.

As far as the accelerated timing, it put Euron's teleportation to shame...apparently "send a Raven" now means a text message and dragons are equipped with hyperdrive.

This was my thought as well.  I had heard rumors awhile back of a dragon dying.  Entering this episode I pretty much had decided it was impossible to happen.  It would take an extreme employment of suspension of disbelief to think that a raven would be able to make it to dragon stone, and then the dragons make it to the battle, before the ice froze on a lake, or the people died of starvation/hypothermia.

Well, apparently they went there and time frame wise this one was a bit too absurd. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 20, 2017, 10:26:35 PM
This was my thought as well.  I had heard rumors awhile back of a dragon dying.  Entering this episode I pretty much had decided it was impossible to happen.  It would take an extreme employment of suspension of disbelief to think that a raven would be able to make it to dragon stone, and then the dragons make it to the battle, before the ice froze on a lake, or the people died of starvation/hypothermia.

Well, apparently they went there and time frame wise this one was a bit too absurd.

Worse than that is the arya/Sansa stuff
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 20, 2017, 10:27:52 PM
Quite the nutty episode.  Did not expect a dragon to go down and be turned...but really good that they got the dragon/army of the dead interaction in.  Was not expecting that until the very end of the series, and really ups the stakes now.

As far as the accelerated timing, it put Euron's teleportation to shame...apparently "send a Raven" now means a text message and dragons are equipped with hyperdrive.

I mean Thoros had time to freeze to death. I think they meant to give the impression that the standoff was a few days. (Which could explain why the army of the dead hasn't gotten to the wall yet. Everytime they run into a villager they spend days surrounding them and waiting them out). But yeah, that was pretty unbelievable. The more unbelievable bit was Jon not dying of hypothermia. I'm gonna assume he was sustained by the Lord of Light or some nonsense.

Oh, my.  So what will the zombie ice dragon shoot out of its mouth?

My guess is blue flames.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 20, 2017, 10:29:21 PM
Worse than that is the arya/Sansa stuff

Yeah, also not a fan of that.

Seems pretty clear at this point that when they are out of GRRM source material and having to go their own way entirely that they struggle a bit with the story telling/realism.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 20, 2017, 10:30:23 PM
Worse than that is the arya/Sansa stuff

I actually liked that. They didn't like each other before they got separated and with all the both of them have been through they must have PTSD ten times over by now. Its natural that they would be suspicious and paranoid of each other.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 20, 2017, 11:26:13 PM
Yeah, also not a fan of that.

Seems pretty clear at this point that when they are out of GRRM source material and having to go their own way entirely that they struggle a bit with the story telling/realism.

This is a show about dragons and an army of the dead and people are complaining about realism in terms of travel time.

Has anyone plotted out the distance in miles and how fast ravens and dragons fly? 

FFS, the show is amazing - enjoy it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 21, 2017, 12:53:57 AM
I actually liked that. They didn't like each other before they got separated and with all the both of them have been through they must have PTSD ten times over by now. Its natural that they would be suspicious and paranoid of each other.

I agree, TAMU.  I thought their scenes this week were among the best of the year.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 21, 2017, 08:07:17 AM
According to the books ice dragons breathe cold enough air to freeze a man in half a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2017, 08:13:04 AM
This is a show about dragons and an army of the dead and people are complaining about realism in terms of travel time.

Has anyone plotted out the distance in miles and how fast ravens and dragons fly? 

FFS, the show is amazing - enjoy it.

I see this argument a lot, but it doesn't make sense.  There is a fantasy world that contains dragons and an army of the dead.  The fantasy world includes medieval travel methods and times.  The distance between Dragonstone and North of the wall is roughly the same distance as LA to NYC. 

It would roughly take a week for a raven to fly (non-stop) to deliver the message.

If they had placed teleportation or supersonic dragon flight as part of the fantasy world, it would be fine.  They did not, which makes it poorly constructed from a story standpoint.

I love GOT, but this episode was terribly done from both a technical standpoint and writing standpoint.  The CGI was well done though.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 21, 2017, 09:13:53 AM
I liked this episode.

(https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/08/18/got-gifs/jon-sighs.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.gif)

(https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2017/08/18/got-gifs/jon-dany-look-1a.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2017, 09:54:34 AM
While I really appreciated the action, I hated this episode in a lot of ways.  Mostly because I'd come to expect a level of "difference" from GoT as it compares to other fantasy or dramas.

-There was tons of talk of a dragon being killed.  Once the scorpion didn't get the job done, I figured it would be the Walkers.  It seemed simple to predict.

-The sequence of the PERFECTLY timed Deus Ex Machina with the dragons, then the Night King having a spear that naturally he throws in a perfect rocket arc.  The Scorpion hurt Drogon and forced him to land.  Yet this spear hit Viserion like a Sidewinder missile?  Come on.  And then the ending was ATROCIOUS.  They magically have huge thick chains to pull him out of the depths of a lake.  And then from the second you saw the pull crew, I said out loud "the Night King is going to turn Drogon, his eye will open blue, and that will be the end of the episode"...ta da!  It all played out like lazy fan fiction.

Tormund was fantastic this episode at least.  His dialogue continues to be some of the best in the show.  When he nearly was dragged into the water by the Walkers, I was going to be very upset, but at least thats the type of HOLY S*** moment you expect from GoT.  Instead everything was too clean.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 21, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
While I really appreciated the action, I hated this episode in a lot of ways.  Mostly because I'd come to expect a level of "difference" from GoT as it compares to other fantasy or dramas.

-There was tons of talk of a dragon being killed.  Once the scorpion didn't get the job done, I figured it would be the Walkers.  It seemed simple to predict.

-The sequence of the PERFECTLY timed Deus Ex Machina with the dragons, then the Night King having a spear that naturally he throws in a perfect rocket arc.  The Scorpion hurt Drogon and forced him to land.  Yet this spear hit Viserion like a Sidewinder missile?  Come on.  And then the ending was ATROCIOUS.  They magically have huge thick chains to pull him out of the depths of a lake.  And then from the second you saw the pull crew, I said out loud "the Night King is going to turn Drogon, his eye will open blue, and that will be the end of the episode"...ta da!  It all played out like lazy fan fiction.

Tormund was fantastic this episode at least.  His dialogue continues to be some of the best in the show.  When he nearly was dragged into the water by the Walkers, I was going to be very upset, but at least thats the type of HOLY S*** moment you expect from GoT.  Instead everything was too clean.

Narrative/exposition of the show seems to be taking a downturn/backseat at this point. Feels like the writers are just wanting to finish everything up in the (relatively) short time they have left.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 10:05:53 AM
I see this argument a lot, but it doesn't make sense.  There is a fantasy world that contains dragons and an army of the dead.  The fantasy world includes medieval travel methods and times.  The distance between Dragonstone and North of the wall is roughly the same distance as LA to NYC. 

It would roughly take a week for a raven to fly (non-stop) to deliver the message.

If they had placed teleportation or supersonic dragon flight as part of the fantasy world, it would be fine.  They did not, which makes it poorly constructed from a story standpoint.

I love GOT, but this episode was terribly done from both a technical standpoint and writing standpoint.  The CGI was well done though.

What's  the airspeed velocity of an unladen raven?

Seriously, though, why are you willing to believe in a fantasy world with dragons and zombies and smoke monsters, etc., but not one in which a raven isn't entirely limited to its physical nature in this (our) world? Maybe Westeros ravens are really, really fast.
This all reeks off as unnecessary nitpicking.

Anyhow ... here's a solid argument for why it's all possible:

When the new episode drops tomorrow, I'm anticipating that there's gonna be a fair bit of bitching and moaning about how quickly Gendry relayed the Just Ice League's message to Dany. Like a lot of people in this sub, I think that too many showwatchers have a pretty fragile ability to suspend disbelief, but I thought I'd offer a semi-plausible rationalization anyway:

    The whole concept of messenger ravens is fantastical. To my knowledge, the only widespread "avian messenger systems" used homing pigeons because of their unique ability to navigate with the Earth's magnetic field. Ravens are smart birds, but they're nonmigratory. The sheer size of the maesters' raven network is also preposterously large and complex for a medieval society. In other words, we're already far beyond the realm of realism before anything involving this specific message.

    On this map it appears that the distance from Eastwatch to Dragonstone is 1800-2000 miles, about the same distance as Seattle to Chicago. From my 5 minutes of internet research, it seems like this scale is based entirely on a single description of the Wall as being 100 leagues long, and one statement from GRRM that 1 league = 3 miles. GRRM has mentioned that he regrets making the Wall so large, so I'm gonna call this an exaggeration and cut all the distances in half (also because my math doesn't work otherwise).

    The Wikipedia article on homing pigeons claims that the top speed of a pigeon over short distances is 90 mph and 50 mph for moderate distances. 900-1000 miles is pushing the limits of how far pigeons can travel (certainly over one day) but idgaf because this world already has dragons and ice zombies, so we're gonna make this hypothetical messenger bird a super raven that can cruise at 90 mph forever.

    I can't find the post, but yesterday someone noted that one of the first landscape shots in the episode is at the same location that Jon & Co. lay the ambush to capture a wight. It's obviously just a filming shortcut because HBO doesn't have infinite money to scout locations in the Icelandic wilderness (but some kneelers are probably calling it a unnatural carnal knowledge-up that breaks their immersion). For our purposes, it's very convenient to presume that they were walking in circles on the zombie hunt, and so we'll say that Gendry only had to run 26.2 miles back to the Wall. The fastest marathon time is about 2 hours, but we'll cut Gendry some slack since he was wearing some pretty bulky clothes and say it took him 3 hours.

What can we conclude from all this ironclad evidence?

Gendry's marathon: 3 hours

Super raven's 900-mile flight to Dragonstone: 10 hours

Dany getting her crap together/arguing with Tyrion: 1 hour

Dragon-flight back to zombie island: 10 hours

Therefore, if you squint your eyes (and remember that we're talking about a sword-and-sorcery TV show and not a Ken Burns documentary), the whole sequence took 24 hours. This comports with the Just Ice League's overnight standoff with the Army of the Dead.


Even if you take away some of this person's favorable assumptions, it can still realistically be accomplished in some 48 hours or so, which fits fine with the narrative (and nothing close to a full week).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2017, 10:21:22 AM
To me, this episode wasn't as strong as the previous few. Though I'm not all that good at predicting stuff that will happen on GoT, I pretty easily predicted the "dragon's eye will turn blue" scene. And though I am quite good at suspending belief for this series, I said out loud to only my sleeping dog: "Wow. Fast raven."

That being said, I still enjoyed most of the episode. It still was the best thing I saw on TV this week.

And I am looking forward to the eventual clash of the dragons - not to mention the Dany-Cersei and Sansa-Arya clashes. I know we'll probably have to wait until the final season for the bulk of that, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 21, 2017, 10:35:09 AM
The nitpicking is absurd.

You're really thinking about where they got the chains to pull the dragon from the water? 

Get a grip. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 21, 2017, 10:43:59 AM
For my money, one of the best episodes of the entire series so far. What I really loved about it was that it tied together so many disparate storylines. Suddenly we have Jon Snow talking to Jorah Mormont, the Hound and Tormund Giantsbane firing back and forth, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Gendry all back together at the same time. I loved how they finally wove those stories together and brought together these badasses from the furthest reaches of the storyline into the same place at the same time.

I liked the Arya/Sansa stuff as well. I like that Arya seems fully disconnected from the world. This discussion showed just how far removed she is from the little girl that went South in the first season. While Sansa has grown up, Arya has grown apart. Her time with the Faceless has made her something wholly different.

I also loved the battle and the felling of the dragon. I felt like it really made the Night King into a badass. In the past, he's just been this oppressive shadow that had his minions do all his work, now we see that he can fell a dragon with a single blow and now has a zombie dragon to ride himself. It also fixes that pesky Reddit debate of "who will ride the third dragon".

I've complained about the timing before, but watching this, two thoughts. First, Pakuni's timeline seems perfectly plausible. Even if you stretch it out to 48 or 72 hours, that's a perfectly rational timeline. Also, I'm sure that once Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring come out (if they ever do) we'll get even better dialogue and a more fully realized plot mixture as all this comes together. No interpretation is perfect and it's even harder when the source material isn't fully available. But for entertainment value, this was about as good as it gets.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
The nitpicking is absurd.

You're really thinking about where they got the chains to pull the dragon from the water? 

Get a grip.

It's less about the chains and more that some braindead zombie army who only know how to overwhelm and kill while being lead by the Night King, are now executing complex engineering projects. It would be like a hoard of Zombies from the Walking Dead suddenly creating a pulley to lift and ferry large numbers of themselves over an obstruction.

And of all my complaints, that's what you zero'd in on? My whole annoyance was that the storytelling and script got too neat, clean, and cute. That was just another example of it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 21, 2017, 10:55:42 AM
For my money, one of the best episodes of the entire series so far. What I really loved about it was that it tied together so many disparate storylines. Suddenly we have Jon Snow talking to Jorah Mormont, the Hound and Tormund Giantsbane firing back and forth, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Gendry all back together at the same time. I loved how they finally wove those stories together and brought together these badasses from the furthest reaches of the storyline into the same place at the same time.

I liked the Arya/Sansa stuff as well. I like that Arya seems fully disconnected from the world. This discussion showed just how far removed she is from the little girl that went South in the first season. While Sansa has grown up, Arya has grown apart. Her time with the Faceless has made her something wholly different.

I also loved the battle and the felling of the dragon. I felt like it really made the Night King into a badass. In the past, he's just been this oppressive shadow that had his minions do all his work, now we see that he can fell a dragon with a single blow and now has a zombie dragon to ride himself. It also fixes that pesky Reddit debate of "who will ride the third dragon".


I agree, Brew.

Everyone loves the big scenes and battles, but I prefer the quieter conflicts including the inner battles that Jamie, Tyrion, Arya, the Hound, etc. face. Despite the wide canvas, this is still a story about the struggles of two families - the Starks and the Lannisters.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
The nitpicking is absurd.

You're really thinking about where they got the chains to pull the dragon from the water? 

Get a grip.

And questioning the spear-throwing capabilities of a 12,000-year-old zombie king with magical powers.
Like, him being created by magical children wielding a magical dagger and then surviving many millennia in the wilderness while turning the dead into a zombie army is totally acceptable, but NO WAY could he be skilled at throwing a magical spear. That's just not credible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 11:08:32 AM
It's less about the chains and more that some braindead zombie army who only know how to overwhelm and kill while being lead by the Night King, are now executing complex engineering projects. It would be like a hoard of Zombies from the Walking Dead suddenly creating a pulley to lift and ferry large numbers of themselves over an obstruction.

No, it wouldn't be like that at all.
The Walking Dead zombies have no intelligent creator or leader. They're entirely mindless beings who follow no purpose other than a basic desire to feed.
To the contrary, the GoT wights were created to serve the walkers, and have always been shown to follow the commands of the walkers. Think about the attack on Hardhome. The wights clearly attacked on the orders of the Night's King (such as when he ordered them over the cliff, or later when he commanded the newly created wights to rise).
Even last night, the first batch of zombies were clearly marching in sync with the White Walker.

There are some fair criticisms of last night's episode - namely that they writers often are tying things neatly in order to speed things through the final episodes - but some of these gripes are silly (and dareisay simplistic) nitpicking in the place of thoughtful criticism.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 21, 2017, 11:18:08 AM
It's less about the chains and more that some braindead zombie army who only know how to overwhelm and kill while being lead by the Night King, are now executing complex engineering projects. It would be like a hoard of Zombies from the Walking Dead suddenly creating a pulley to lift and ferry large numbers of themselves over an obstruction.

And of all my complaints, that's what you zero'd in on? My whole annoyance was that the storytelling and script got too neat, clean, and cute. That was just another example of it.

I mean it was the silliest complaint to me, which is why I mentioned it specifically. 

The Night King throwing a spear and hitting the dragon wasn't too shocking to me.  And perhaps it took the dragon down because of what the spear was made from vs. the Scorpion having to hit a dragon in the perfect spot to kill it.  A dragon is a pretty big target and why wouldn't The Night King have some skills?

The Night King clearly has the ability to think and reason.  Who's to say he can't instruct his army to do exactly what he wants?  Why wouldn't he have some of the dead lose their lives under the water in order to put chains around the dragon?  The payoff is obviously worth it.     

And so what if him turning the dragon (it wasn't drogon) was predictable?  Predictable doesn't have to equate to lazy.  And it was very cool.   

For something that beautiful and exciting to watch, focusing on some of these issues, which could potentially be explained, just seems like a huge waste to me. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 21, 2017, 11:19:58 AM
For my money, one of the best episodes of the entire series so far. What I really loved about it was that it tied together so many disparate storylines. Suddenly we have Jon Snow talking to Jorah Mormont, the Hound and Tormund Giantsbane firing back and forth, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Gendry all back together at the same time. I loved how they finally wove those stories together and brought together these badasses from the furthest reaches of the storyline into the same place at the same time.

I liked the Arya/Sansa stuff as well. I like that Arya seems fully disconnected from the world. This discussion showed just how far removed she is from the little girl that went South in the first season. While Sansa has grown up, Arya has grown apart. Her time with the Faceless has made her something wholly different.

I also loved the battle and the felling of the dragon. I felt like it really made the Night King into a badass. In the past, he's just been this oppressive shadow that had his minions do all his work, now we see that he can fell a dragon with a single blow and now has a zombie dragon to ride himself. It also fixes that pesky Reddit debate of "who will ride the third dragon".

I've complained about the timing before, but watching this, two thoughts. First, Pakuni's timeline seems perfectly plausible. Even if you stretch it out to 48 or 72 hours, that's a perfectly rational timeline. Also, I'm sure that once Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring come out (if they ever do) we'll get even better dialogue and a more fully realized plot mixture as all this comes together. No interpretation is perfect and it's even harder when the source material isn't fully available. But for entertainment value, this was about as good as it gets.

Nicely stated. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 21, 2017, 11:21:03 AM
No, it wouldn't be like that at all.
The Walking Dead zombies have no intelligent creator or leader. They're entirely mindless beings who follow no purpose other than a basic desire to feed.
To the contrary, the GoT wights were created to serve the walkers, and have always been shown to follow the commands of the walkers. Think about the attack on Hardhome. The wights clearly attacked on the orders of the Night's King (such as when he ordered them over the cliff, or later when he commanded the newly created wights to rise).
Even last night, the first batch of zombies were clearly marching in sync with the White Walker.

There are some fair criticisms of last night's episode - namely that they writers often are tying things neatly in order to speed things through the final episodes - but some of these gripes are silly (and dareisay simplistic) nitpicking in the place of thoughtful criticism.

Also nicely stated. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on August 21, 2017, 11:25:49 AM
Seriously, though, why are you willing to believe in a fantasy world with dragons and zombies and smoke monsters, etc., but not one in which a raven isn't entirely limited to its physical nature in this (our) world? Maybe Westeros ravens are really, really fast.
This all reeks off as unnecessary nitpicking.

The nitpicking is absurd.
You're really thinking about where they got the chains to pull the dragon from the water? 
Get a grip. 

Nah, this just isn't a valid counterpoint. I get that there's a lot of GoT fans that don't consume a lot of sci-fi or fantasy. But internal consistency about where to suspend reality one hand, and where art is imitating life one the other, is the central tenet of the genre.  Its not fair to say "Hey! This isn't a documentary, so you have no right to criticize the internal inconsistencies of the storytelling." I get that if you're deciding whether to watch GoT or Oz, the timelines, etc. may not be that important to you. But GoT is at its core, a tv adaptation of what is a pretty tightly woven anthology narrative. Its a perfectly fair criticism of the adaptation for not holding itself to the same standards of internal consistency of the source material. Given that consumers of all things GoT have spent 5 books and 7 seasons invested in this, and that this has just recently started to become a major problem as the series is hurriedly rushing to its conclusion, its perfectly understandable to feel let down.

Edit - sorry, I'm seeing that this is all getting distilled down now before i posted. I'm a dumb.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 11:51:04 AM
Nah, this just isn't a valid counterpoint. I get that there's a lot of GoT fans that don't consume a lot of sci-fi or fantasy. But internal consistency about where to suspend reality one hand, and where art is imitating life one the other, is the central tenet of the genre.  Its not fair to say "Hey! This isn't a documentary, so you have no right to criticize the internal inconsistencies of the storytelling." I get that if you're deciding whether to watch GoT or Oz, the timelines, etc. may not be that important to you. But GoT is at its core, a tv adaptation of what is a pretty tightly woven anthology narrative. Its a perfectly fair criticism of the adaptation for not holding itself to the same standards of internal consistency of the source material. Given that consumers of all things GoT have spent 5 books and 7 seasons invested in this, and that this has just recently started to become a major problem as the series is hurriedly rushing to its conclusion, its perfectly understandable to feel let down.

Edit - sorry, I'm seeing that this is all getting distilled down now before i posted. I'm a dumb.

I don't think anyone has said 'you have no right to criticize the internal inconsistencies of the storytelling.' Rather, I'm saying it's nitpicking and inconsistent to eagerly accept some fantastical elements of a story while railing other minor details over their supposed lack of realism.

But setting aside the argument over what is and isn't acceptable suspension of disbelief in a fantasy story, some of the plot elements being called unrealistic/incredible simply are not.
As pointed out above, it's not unrealistic in the GoT universe to deploy ravens to get a message to Daenerys from beyond the wall within an acceptable 48-hour (roughly) time frame.
It's not unrealistic that the White Walkers would possess and be capable of using a magical spear that could take down a dragon. They're magical beings that have been around for 12,000 years and been plotting an attack for millennia. Certainly they're aware of dragons' place in the world and would have prepared for them.
It's entirely within the narrative that the wights follow the commands of the White Walkers, and that would include commands to drag a dragon out of a frozen lake with chains (though it is fair to question where the chains came from ... Hardhome, perhaps?). It's even credible to believe the Night's King set up the situation as a means of capturing a dragon of his own.

So, even setting aside a debate over suspension of disbelief, some of the complaints when scrutinized just don't hold up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on August 21, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
I don't think anyone has said 'you have no right to criticize the internal inconsistencies of the storytelling.' Rather, I'm saying it's nitpicking and inconsistent to eagerly accept some fantastical elements of a story while railing other minor details over their supposed lack of realism.

But setting aside the argument over what is and isn't acceptable suspension of disbelief in a fantasy story, some of the plot elements being called unrealistic/incredible simply are not.
As pointed out above, it's not unrealistic in the GoT universe to deploy ravens to get a message to Daenerys from beyond the wall within an acceptable 48-hour (roughly) time frame.
It's not unrealistic that the White Walkers would possess and be capable of using a magical spear that could take down a dragon. They're magical beings that have been around for 12,000 years and been plotting an attack for millennia. Certainly they're aware of dragons' place in the world and would have prepared for them.
It's entirely within the narrative that the wights follow the commands of the White Walkers, and that would include commands to drag a dragon out of a frozen lake with chains (though it is fair to question where the chains came from ... Hardhome, perhaps?).

so, even setting aside a debate over suspension of disbelief, some of the complaints when scrutinized just don't hold up.

Totally on board with this. Particularly the parts addressing non-timeline complaints. I shouldn't have been so lazy and should have edited my post.

And re the chains - I'm outside my expertise on this, but it didn't really bother me because I thought there were a lot of settlements well north of the wall - human and otherwise - over the years that could have had ironworks and could have produced those?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 21, 2017, 12:07:13 PM
Here's a good reflection on my POV following the last episode:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/game-of-thrones-episode-6-recap-daenerys-ex-machina

Quote
Game of Thrones has also been a fantasy show, but not reallllly. It was more of a show about the complex web of politics and relationships within Westeros. Things like magic and the supernatural were occasionally sprinkled in to spice it up, but there were stretches, sometimes weeks long, where Game of Thrones could have just as easily been set in 1400’s Scotland as it could have been in Westeros if the names were less bizarre and people less attractive.

Now, Game of Thrones is a full-blown fantasy show. Dragons, White Walkers, Bran Stark, concepts like predestination, God, magic, they’re all going to not just be elements in the show. They’re going to be the driving force. The emphasis on the realism/fantasy blend has completely flipped. If you’re someone who grew up loving Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, The Eragon series or any other fantasy novel, this is all going to be very familiar and welcome to you. But for the people who have been justifying their Game of Thrones fandam with “Yeah it’s about ice zombies and dragons but NOT REALLY, it isn’t like all that other nerd crap” you might find yourself not liking the show as much. I don’t know how much of the Game of Thrones audience is going to lose a little bit of interest in the show now that’s fantasy instead of historical fiction about a world which doesn’t exist (there’s a subtle difference). Certainly not enough to make anyone stop watching, especially with only a season left. But the reaction of the American pop culture audience being forced to embrace nerd-wet-dream straight-cut unfiltered fantasy is going to be fascinating.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 21, 2017, 12:19:26 PM
Here's a good reflection on my POV following the last episode:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/game-of-thrones-episode-6-recap-daenerys-ex-machina

Thanks for sharing. 

One small part that did bug me about the episode is Benjen could have got on the horse with Jon instead of sacrificing himself. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 21, 2017, 12:39:54 PM
Thanks for sharing. 

One small part that did bug me about the episode is Benjen could have got on the horse with Jon instead of sacrificing himself.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/web03/2012/10/9/9/enhanced-buzz-13097-1349790897-7.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2017, 02:33:11 PM
What's  the airspeed velocity of an unladen raven?

Seriously, though, why are you willing to believe in a fantasy world with dragons and zombies and smoke monsters, etc., but not one in which a raven isn't entirely limited to its physical nature in this (our) world? Maybe Westeros ravens are really, really fast.
This all reeks off as unnecessary nitpicking.

Anyhow ... here's a solid argument for why it's all possible:

When the new episode drops tomorrow, I'm anticipating that there's gonna be a fair bit of bitching and moaning about how quickly Gendry relayed the Just Ice League's message to Dany. Like a lot of people in this sub, I think that too many showwatchers have a pretty fragile ability to suspend disbelief, but I thought I'd offer a semi-plausible rationalization anyway:

    The whole concept of messenger ravens is fantastical. To my knowledge, the only widespread "avian messenger systems" used homing pigeons because of their unique ability to navigate with the Earth's magnetic field. Ravens are smart birds, but they're nonmigratory. The sheer size of the maesters' raven network is also preposterously large and complex for a medieval society. In other words, we're already far beyond the realm of realism before anything involving this specific message.

    On this map it appears that the distance from Eastwatch to Dragonstone is 1800-2000 miles, about the same distance as Seattle to Chicago. From my 5 minutes of internet research, it seems like this scale is based entirely on a single description of the Wall as being 100 leagues long, and one statement from GRRM that 1 league = 3 miles. GRRM has mentioned that he regrets making the Wall so large, so I'm gonna call this an exaggeration and cut all the distances in half (also because my math doesn't work otherwise).

    The Wikipedia article on homing pigeons claims that the top speed of a pigeon over short distances is 90 mph and 50 mph for moderate distances. 900-1000 miles is pushing the limits of how far pigeons can travel (certainly over one day) but idgaf because this world already has dragons and ice zombies, so we're gonna make this hypothetical messenger bird a super raven that can cruise at 90 mph forever.

    I can't find the post, but yesterday someone noted that one of the first landscape shots in the episode is at the same location that Jon & Co. lay the ambush to capture a wight. It's obviously just a filming shortcut because HBO doesn't have infinite money to scout locations in the Icelandic wilderness (but some kneelers are probably calling it a unnatural carnal knowledge-up that breaks their immersion). For our purposes, it's very convenient to presume that they were walking in circles on the zombie hunt, and so we'll say that Gendry only had to run 26.2 miles back to the Wall. The fastest marathon time is about 2 hours, but we'll cut Gendry some slack since he was wearing some pretty bulky clothes and say it took him 3 hours.

What can we conclude from all this ironclad evidence?

Gendry's marathon: 3 hours

Super raven's 900-mile flight to Dragonstone: 10 hours

Dany getting her crap together/arguing with Tyrion: 1 hour

Dragon-flight back to zombie island: 10 hours

Therefore, if you squint your eyes (and remember that we're talking about a sword-and-sorcery TV show and not a Ken Burns documentary), the whole sequence took 24 hours. This comports with the Just Ice League's overnight standoff with the Army of the Dead.


Even if you take away some of this person's favorable assumptions, it can still realistically be accomplished in some 48 hours or so, which fits fine with the narrative (and nothing close to a full week).

I don't think you or the reddit user who wrote that article understand.  First the reddit user is wrong on ravens not being able to navigate the earth magnetic field, they certainly can.  Even there, the book references them as Crows, which are migratory birds.  Regardless they can measure the Earth's magnetic field. 

None of that is particularly important, though, as this is a fantasy world. Within that fantasy world there are rules etc.  Part of that is throughout the books and the show, sending message by Crows/Ravens is slow, as Westeros (Dorne-Wall) is ~3000 miles across (according to GRRM himself).  So from a story telling standpoint, the situation was poorly scripted and designed. 

Your rationale of "this is a fantasy world with dragons and zombies" means nothing.  According to that argument, they could just script in a machine gun that shoots dragon glass bullets in the next episode and mow everything down.  That would be idiotic and a ridiculous over-use of deus ex machina.  It is completely inconsistent with the rules and situations of the actual world that was created. 

This episode was pure fan-service.  Poorly scripted dialogue that makes certain fan groups happy.  Poor story line that was overly predictive and unrealistic in GRRM's world.  And a gross overuse of deus ex machina. 

From a visuals standpoint, the episode was cool.  From an actual scripting/directing standpoint, probably one of the poorest episodes I've seen.  They are actually discussing it in film class on my campus as things to avoid doing...that doesn't mean it doesn't make fans happy, but it is a lowpoint development wise for GOT...where they normally excel.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 21, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Honest question, is it ever discussed in the books or show how long it takes Ravens to get from one place or another? It always seemed like it is a lot quicker than one would think. Though this was obviously an extreme example.

I have contented myself with the belief that the standoff was a couple of days and this was actually a trap by the Night King to get himself a dragon. We already know he has some magical ability of foresight given his ability to "see" Bran when he is spying. So if he knew the dragons would come to rescue John it would make sense that he would wait them out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 21, 2017, 04:33:40 PM
And questioning the spear-throwing capabilities of a 12,000-year-old zombie king with magical powers.
Like, him being created by magical children wielding a magical dagger and then surviving many millennia in the wilderness while turning the dead into a zombie army is totally acceptable, but NO WAY could he be skilled at throwing a magical spear. That's just not credible.

Made me chuckle!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 04:51:13 PM
I don't think you or the reddit user who wrote that article understand.  First the reddit user is wrong on ravens not being able to navigate the earth magnetic field, they certainly can.  Even there, the book references them as Crows, which are migratory birds.  Regardless they can measure the Earth's magnetic field. 

None of that is particularly important, though, as this is a fantasy world. Within that fantasy world there are rules etc.  Part of that is throughout the books and the show, sending message by Crows/Ravens is slow, as Westeros (Dorne-Wall) is ~3000 miles across (according to GRRM himself).  So from a story telling standpoint, the situation was poorly scripted and designed. 

Your rationale of "this is a fantasy world with dragons and zombies" means nothing.  According to that argument, they could just script in a machine gun that shoots dragon glass bullets in the next episode and mow everything down.  That would be idiotic and a ridiculous over-use of deus ex machina.  It is completely inconsistent with the rules and situations of the actual world that was created. 

This episode was pure fan-service.  Poorly scripted dialogue that makes certain fan groups happy.  Poor story line that was overly predictive and unrealistic in GRRM's world.  And a gross overuse of deus ex machina. 

From a visuals standpoint, the episode was cool.  From an actual scripting/directing standpoint, probably one of the poorest episodes I've seen.  They are actually discussing it in film class on my campus as things to avoid doing...that doesn't mean it doesn't make fans happy, but it is a lowpoint development wise for GOT...where they normally excel.

A class of film students didn't care for it? Check and mate.

Seriously, you're completely entitled to dislike the episode for whatever reason you wish.
But your argument that the plot was "completely inconsistent with the rules and situations of the actual world that was created" is  false, and you've provided nothing to support it.

Your main gripe seems to be with the raven.
But contrary to what you say, a normal carrier pigeon in our world could deliver a message the distance from the Wall to Dragonstone in about 48 hours. Far shorter than the week you claim. To suggest that having a raven (built up in the show and books as a sort of a super carrier bird)  travel at the rate as a normal carrier pigeon or even faster is somehow a betrayal of the world that was created doesn't hold water.
The timeline is further supported by the freezing of the lake. While we don't know the exact temperatures, it's safe to say it's going to take some time - several days, at least - for a lake to freeze solid enough for an army of the undead to walk across it - especially in weather conditions that it was possible for the humans to survive in for some period. Again, well within a credible timeline for the message to get to Dragonstone.

Your machine gun analogy, with all due respect, is a terrible one. Nothing that occurred in last night's episode introduced an heretofore unknown element or character into the story, or significantly changed any known element or character in the story.
I'm not even sure it's fair to claim deus ex machina in some of these situations (at least if you're trying to use the phrase correctly). Everything was, if not foreshadowed, well within the narrative.

Again, feel free to dislike the episode. But some of your specific criticisms are off.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
A class of film students didn't care for it? Check and mate.


Not the film students, the world expert professors who do this for a living.

Also, I wholeheartedly disagree on the ravens.  Frankly, there is nothing in GRRM cannon or real-life science/biology to suggest what occurred time wise in the last episode.

Regarding deus ex machina.  The last episode was fraught with it:  Dany magically showing up just in time, in unnatural time frames, at the exact right place (note, Gendry didn't know where they were and there was a massive snowstorm...Dany and the dragons have never been north).  Benjen showing up at precisely the right time.  Magic dragon killing spears.  Massive chains that would take the army years to build, or even transport immediately available.  Not to mention they would have to swim down to wrap the chains around the dragon, and it has been well documented in canon that the wights cannot swim...cannot survive entering water...and on and on.



Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 21, 2017, 05:52:37 PM
Also, I wholeheartedly disagree on the ravens.  Frankly, there is nothing in GRRM cannon or real-life science/biology to suggest what occurred time wise in the last episode.

From the Game of Thrones wiki:

Ravens are uncommonly intelligent animals that can be trained to serve as messengers. They can fly great distances at speed, and are used by the maesters of Westeros to pass messages between the castles and cities of the Seven Kingdoms. Through complex training methods, the maesters are able to send messages from almost any castle in Westeros to any other.
Maester Aemon says at one point that while doves or pigeons can be trained to carry messages, the maesters don't use them because ravens are larger and more clever: they have the physical strength to fly longer distances as well as the intellectual capacity to accurately remember the longer path they must take; they are also able to fend off attacks from hawks much better than smaller doves or pigeons can.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ravens

As for real-life biology, real-life homing pigeons have been known to travel as much as 1,200 miles at average speeds of 50 mph and top speeds of 90 mph. Given that the ravens of of Westeros are considered superior, a journey such as in yesterday's episode is well within reason.

Quote
Regarding deus ex machina.  The last episode was fraught with it:  Dany magically showing up just in time, in unnatural time frames, at the exact right place (note, Gendry didn't know where they were and there was a massive snowstorm...Dany and the dragons have never been north).  Benjen showing up at precisely the right time.  Magic dragon killing spears.  Massive chains that would take the army years to build, or even transport immediately available.  Not to mention they would have to swim down to wrap the chains around the dragon, and it has been well documented in canon that the wights cannot swim...cannot survive entering water...and on and on.

Something appearing just in the nick of time is not deus ex machina. It also has to be something unforseen or unexpected. Danys appearing was far from unforseen or unexpected. We saw her leave Dragonstone to go there. You've complained that it was too predictable, in fact. A well-foreshadowed event is by definition not deus ex machina.
Benjen lives beyond the wall, tracks White Walkers and has a history in both the TV show and books of showing up to rescue people from them (Bran on the show/Sam and Gilly in the books). Again, not deus ex machina.
If the Night King's spear is deus ex machina in your understanding, so is virtually any element not given the Chekov's gun treatment.
The chains I'll agree are questionable - and a wholly minor plot point - but they're explainable. As TAMU has said, and others believe, the Night's King laid a trap to get a dragon. If that's true, it also makes sense that he would make preparations for it.
But if the chain are really so bothersome they dampen your enjoyment of the episode, I'm not sure what to say to that. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 21, 2017, 06:37:30 PM
Wow, thanks for sucking all the fun out of this, guys!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 21, 2017, 06:48:23 PM
Wow, thanks for sucking all the fun out of this, guys!

The original complaints weren't fun sucking.  I said it was a great episode action wise but I feel the writing has gotten sloppy and formulaic.  Part of the reason GoT has gotten enormous is cause its anything but.  The arguments over specific points like raven speed or chain availability is tedious, I will fully admit that.  But taking an episode as a whole and expressing some minor dissatisfation is fair.  Especially when I saw plenty of "OH MY GOD, TOP 3 GAME OF THRONES EPISODE EASILY"...when this is a series that has some incredible pieces of television in it.

Sorry, MOAR DRAGONS, RIP VISERION.  DANY AND JON ARE RELATIONSHIP GOALZ  :D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 21, 2017, 09:08:24 PM
Wow, thanks for sucking all the fun out of this, guys!

I'm sorry for my part in that.  As penance if I win the powerball jackpot I will donate $50M to MU towards a new on campus arena, with the caveat that it be named the Warriordome, Warrior Arena or Warrior Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 22, 2017, 09:36:32 AM
Duh! It was dragging those heavy chains around that caused the white walker army to take so long to get there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 22, 2017, 01:56:56 PM
One small part that did bug me about the episode is Benjen could have got on the horse with Jon instead of sacrificing himself.

His plot armor was far too heavy.  Needs to get some of that Jon and Jaime stuff that floats and insulates.


I have contented myself with the belief that the standoff was a couple of days and this was actually a trap by the Night King to get himself a dragon. We already know he has some magical ability of foresight given his ability to "see" Bran when he is spying. So if he knew the dragons would come to rescue John it would make sense that he would wait them out.


I thought so too.  If we're talking fantastic abilities, I'd assume he (or any of the walkers) could put their hand on the water and cause it to freeze up rather than staring at their enemy waiting for hours or days.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 22, 2017, 09:01:40 PM
I don't think you or the reddit user who wrote that article understand.  First the reddit user is wrong on ravens not being able to navigate the earth magnetic field, they certainly can.  Even there, the book references them as Crows, which are migratory birds.  Regardless they can measure the Earth's magnetic field. 

None of that is particularly important, though, as this is a fantasy world. Within that fantasy world there are rules etc.  Part of that is throughout the books and the show, sending message by Crows/Ravens is slow, as Westeros (Dorne-Wall) is ~3000 miles across (according to GRRM himself).  So from a story telling standpoint, the situation was poorly scripted and designed. 

Your rationale of "this is a fantasy world with dragons and zombies" means nothing.  According to that argument, they could just script in a machine gun that shoots dragon glass bullets in the next episode and mow everything down.  That would be idiotic and a ridiculous over-use of deus ex machina.  It is completely inconsistent with the rules and situations of the actual world that was created. 

This episode was pure fan-service.  Poorly scripted dialogue that makes certain fan groups happy.  Poor story line that was overly predictive and unrealistic in GRRM's world.  And a gross overuse of deus ex machina. 

From a visuals standpoint, the episode was cool.  From an actual scripting/directing standpoint, probably one of the poorest episodes I've seen.  They are actually discussing it in film class on my campus as things to avoid doing...that doesn't mean it doesn't make fans happy, but it is a lowpoint development wise for GOT...where they normally excel.
+100
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 22, 2017, 09:04:18 PM
The writing this season is sub par, and the entire story is rushed. 

You don't have to like this season just because its GOT.

You could literally drive a mac truck through some of these plot holes.

The entire IDEA behind GRRM's series to subvert fantasy tropes, yet this entire season is wrought with them.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 22, 2017, 10:15:48 PM
The writing this season is sub par, and the entire story is rushed. 

You don't have to like this season just because its GOT.

You could literally drive a mac truck through some of these plot holes.

The entire IDEA behind GRRM's series to subvert fantasy tropes, yet this entire season is wrought with them.

I haven't read the books. The show is all I have.

I have mostly enjoyed this season. I thought the 3 episodes before this past one were fantastic. I thought this past one wasn't quite as good but it was still the best thing on my TV all week.

But what do I know? I'm just a dumb consumer who didn't read the books and doesn't know what's supposed to happen before it happens.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on August 22, 2017, 10:44:08 PM
I think this article does a pretty good job summarizing the plot issues.  Primarily, that the whole "catch an individual wight" is a ridiculously stupid hare-brained scheme with no logical reason to attempt or think will succeed for a myriad of reasons.  (Wights tend to hang out in groups of thousands, Cersei already has her own giant zombie and is not interested at all in problems outside her own walls so why would she care if you brought her one.  So besides the difficulty of the task, it is necessarily going to fail anyway and Tyrion, if he's 10% as smaert as he is supposed to be, would know that for sure)

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-thrones-eastwatch/#!

On one other note, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but I thought the Lannisters were planning to pay back the bank with the money taken from the Tyrells.  I assumed the dragon destroyed the wagon with the gold when Dany attacked the returning army.  Do they still have the money to pay back the bank?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2017, 05:03:40 AM
I think this article does a pretty good job summarizing the plot issues.  Primarily, that the whole "catch an individual wight" is a ridiculously stupid hare-brained scheme with no logical reason to attempt or think will succeed for a myriad of reasons.  (Wights tend to hang out in groups of thousands, Cersei already has her own giant zombie and is not interested at all in problems outside her own walls so why would she care if you brought her one.  So besides the difficulty of the task, it is necessarily going to fail anyway and Tyrion, if he's 10% as smaert as he is supposed to be, would know that for sure)

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-thrones-eastwatch/#!

On one other note, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but I thought the Lannisters were planning to pay back the bank with the money taken from the Tyrells.  I assumed the dragon destroyed the wagon with the gold when Dany attacked the returning army.  Do they still have the money to pay back the bank?

Right, and that is really the problem.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME?  Did Arya totally forget her past where she served Tywin Lannister wine as his cupbearer?  How did Tyrion go from the smartest guy in the books to being wrong about pretty much everything?  Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King?  Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze?  This was just off the top of my head this morning.

I can totally forgive the time travelling since its a TV show and the story must move forward, but there are just so many logical inconsistencies that are very off putting.

And the gold had already arrived in King's Landing.  I think either Jamie or Randyll Tarly mentions it in the episode that the battle took place.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 23, 2017, 07:32:03 AM
Tarly told Jamie all the gold was safely behind the walls of King's Landing.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on August 23, 2017, 11:15:09 AM
Tarly told Jamie all the gold was safely behind the walls of King's Landing.
Thanks, I obviously missed that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2017, 11:22:17 AM
Right, and that is really the problem.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME? 
Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King? 



Littlefinger has been an advisor to Sansa. She does not see all of the devious stuff that we do while watching.

This isn't The Walking Dead - everyone who dies does not "turn".

I, too wondered why the dragons didn't nuke him.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2017, 12:07:30 PM
Littlefinger has been an advisor to Sansa. She does not see all of the devious stuff that we do while watching.

This isn't The Walking Dead - everyone who dies does not "turn".

I, too wondered why the dragons didn't nuke him.

No, Sansa has been showing LF that she is wise to the game.  She has been trained for it every season, and for her to become so apparently stupid to his machinations this season is against her character development.

No, not everyone turns, but most people around the wall and North of it do turn.  The wights that attack Jeor Mormont back in S1 turned while in Castle Black.  It would follow logic that the army of the dead wants as many wights as possible. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2017, 12:24:53 PM
No, Sansa has been showing LF that she is wise to the game.  She has been trained for it every season, and for her to become so apparently stupid to his machinations this season is against her character development.

It's pretty obvious that Arya, quite likely with Sansa, is setting up Littlefinger.

Quote
No, not everyone turns, but most people around the wall and North of it do turn.  The wights that attack Jeor Mormont back in S1 turned while in Castle Black.  It would follow logic that the army of the dead wants as many wights as possible.

The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont were members of the Nght's Watch killed beyond the wall and then returned to Castle Black. So, becoming a wight seems to at the very least require being killed beyond the wall, and almost certainly by another wight or a walker. I don't recall any of the people killed at Craster's Keep or Battle of Castle Black turning into wights. That being the case, executing a prisoner and waiting for him to turn into a wight seems an impossibility.
(p.s. Going to capture a wight was a terrible idea ... but GoT is full of people acting on terrible ideas. Sort of a central theme of the stories, no?)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 23, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
The writing this season is sub par, and the entire story is rushed. 

You don't have to like this season just because its GOT.

You could literally drive a mac truck through some of these plot holes.

The entire IDEA behind GRRM's series to subvert fantasy tropes, yet this entire season is wrought with them.

I like this season because it has been awesome. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 23, 2017, 02:59:19 PM
Right, and that is really the problem.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME?  Did Arya totally forget her past where she served Tywin Lannister wine as his cupbearer?  How did Tyrion go from the smartest guy in the books to being wrong about pretty much everything?  Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King?  Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze?  This was just off the top of my head this morning.

I can totally forgive the time travelling since its a TV show and the story must move forward, but there are just so many logical inconsistencies that are very off putting.

And the gold had already arrived in King's Landing.  I think either Jamie or Randyll Tarly mentions it in the episode that the battle took place.

Did Sansa forget who Littlefinger is and what he does ALL THE TIME?  Did Arya totally forget her past where she served Tywin Lannister wine as his cupbearer?  Why don't you wait to see how this particular story line plays out?

How did Tyrion go from the smartest guy in the books to being wrong about pretty much everything?  Do intelligent people not make mistakes or have bad stretches of judgment?  Maybe it seems convenient but I don't think it's completely absurd.   

Catch a wight is a stupid plot on its face.  Why not just find a criminal and execute him... toss him in a cell and wait for him to turn?  As mentioned, it doesn't work that way.

Why doesn't Drogon turn his head and nuke the Night's King with Dragonfire after he sees Viserion get hit...  better yet, why do none of the dragons nuke the Night's King?  I'm not sure.  Maybe Dany was so stunned by what happened she didn't want to risk losing any more of her children and preferred to get the hell out of there.  I'd have to watch that sequence again. 

Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze? Fair point.  I'd have to watch again to see if I was missing something.  As has been pointed out, the Night King could likely have just froze it again but may have been waiting for the dragons to arrive. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2017, 03:23:17 PM
I like this season because it has been awesome.

+1000
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 23, 2017, 03:25:08 PM
Why don't our heroes chop the ice around them to prevent the wights from just waiting for it to freeze? Fair point.  I'd have to watch again to see if I was missing something.  As has been pointed out, the Night King could likely have just froze it again but may have been waiting for the dragons to arrive. 

I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

(https://i.redditmedia.com/jYdpFxAcbsytxHLqCFz8C15S_Z6G2bx-6vFQe_o51DQ.png?w=812&s=ac168abc548462a73b92e79899e80917)

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 23, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

(https://i.redditmedia.com/jYdpFxAcbsytxHLqCFz8C15S_Z6G2bx-6vFQe_o51DQ.png?w=812&s=ac168abc548462a73b92e79899e80917)

Of course when they saw sam in the earlier season they were carrying those massive spears as well. Unless they were setting traps for dragons that time to
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 23, 2017, 07:03:02 PM
I think it's very likely that it was a trap to capture a dragon.
Check out this screenshot of the Walkers waiting for the lake to freeze (i.e. the dragons to show up). Is it coincidence that they brought three large spears with them?

(https://i.redditmedia.com/jYdpFxAcbsytxHLqCFz8C15S_Z6G2bx-6vFQe_o51DQ.png?w=812&s=ac168abc548462a73b92e79899e80917)

Very nice catch. Of course, I can't say I recall if it is different than normal but it seems to be unlikely to be coincidence.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2017, 09:38:14 PM
Oh horsecrap.  If you don't think this season has strayed from the core of the series you are either not paying attention, don't know good writing, or are easily tricked by stupid fan service dialogue and flashy battle scenes.

I'm enjoying it for what it is, but the quality drop off is enormous. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2017, 09:42:40 PM
It's pretty obvious that Arya, quite likely with Sansa, is setting up Littlefinger.

The wights that attacked Jeor Mormont were members of the Nght's Watch killed beyond the wall and then returned to Castle Black. So, becoming a wight seems to at the very least require being killed beyond the wall, and almost certainly by another wight or a walker. I don't recall any of the people killed at Craster's Keep or Battle of Castle Black turning into wights. That being the case, executing a prisoner and waiting for him to turn into a wight seems an impossibility.
(p.s. Going to capture a wight was a terrible idea ... but GoT is full of people acting on terrible ideas. Sort of a central theme of the stories, no?)

In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.  The story line doesn't fit within the narrative and it's sloppy hero trope quest BS.  And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

If/when Martin finishes the books, I firmly believe the story won't be close to this bungled mess.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2017, 09:43:50 PM
Very nice catch. Of course, I can't say I recall if it is different than normal but it seems to be unlikely to be coincidence.

Except the first time we see the army of the dead headed south (seasons ago) the only white walker we see has an ice lance/spear. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2017, 09:56:45 PM
In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.  The story line doesn't fit within the narrative and it's sloppy hero trope quest BS.  And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

If/when Martin finishes the books, I firmly believe the story won't be close to this bungled mess.

Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?

I'm asking seriously - not just to be snarky. It is fantasy and there is no way the show could encompass the detail of many thousands of pages. Shortcuts are necessary and storylines need to be completed in a timely manner.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 23, 2017, 09:59:41 PM
In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black. 

My understanding is that someone has to be killed by a wight/walker or have their corpse touched by a walker. It's not an instantaneous process unless their corpse is touched by a walker. So the rangers brought the corpses in between them dying and them turning.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 23, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?


I was thinking the exact same thing.

I loved the first season of True Detective. When I got 2 episodes into the second season and didn't like it, I stopped watching it. It was easy. When NYPD Blue got stupid, I stopped watching it. When MASH got awful, I stopped watching it. ER. That stupid effen Seattle medical show. Etc, etc, etc.

I confess that I did watch the entire season of John From Cincinnati. I was a glutton for punishment!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 23, 2017, 11:17:31 PM
Except the first time we see the army of the dead headed south (seasons ago) the only white walker we see has an ice lance/spear.

That doesn't really prove anything either way.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 23, 2017, 11:18:59 PM
Oh horsecrap.  If you don't think this season has strayed from the core of the series you are either not paying attention, don't know good writing, or are easily tricked by stupid fan service dialogue and flashy battle scenes.

I'm enjoying it for what it is, but the quality drop off is enormous.

(https://m.popkey.co/320275/Q8ylQ_s-200x150.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 24, 2017, 07:39:39 AM
Why do you watch a show that you think is so bad?

I'm asking seriously - not just to be snarky. It is fantasy and there is no way the show could encompass the detail of many thousands of pages. Shortcuts are necessary and storylines need to be completed in a timely manner.

It's not a bad show, it's just a poorly done season.

I love the show, I just don't want to see it end on a sour note.  Especially, for how good it has been in seasons past.  I'm an enormous fan of the show and books.  I just think that they deserve the criticism that they're getting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 24, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
I was thinking the exact same thing.

I loved the first season of True Detective. When I got 2 episodes into the second season and didn't like it, I stopped watching it. It was easy. When NYPD Blue got stupid, I stopped watching it. When MASH got awful, I stopped watching it. ER. That stupid effen Seattle medical show. Etc, etc, etc.

I confess that I did watch the entire season of John From Cincinnati. I was a glutton for punishment!

Your examples aren't exactly apples to apples.  True Detective had a compeltely different cast and storyline.  And network TV dramas have 20+ episode seasons and meandering plots.

There are ebbs and flows to series.  Some people hated certain seasons of the Wire.  There was a season of Friday Night Lights that was absolutely laughable.  But they are still great shows with great characters that keep you coming back.  GoT is no exception.  Its not infallible, especially when you have a very defined point of comparison in writing.

Complaining about certain episodes or writing themes doesn't make it a bad show all of a sudden or one that has no interest in watching.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 24, 2017, 09:54:49 AM
Your examples aren't exactly apples to apples.  True Detective had a compeltely different cast and storyline.  And network TV dramas have 20+ episode seasons and meandering plots.

There are ebbs and flows to series.  Some people hated certain seasons of the Wire.  There was a season of Friday Night Lights that was absolutely laughable.  But they are still great shows with great characters that keep you coming back.  GoT is no exception.  Its not infallible, especially when you have a very defined point of comparison in writing.

Complaining about certain episodes or writing themes doesn't make it a bad show all of a sudden or one that has no interest in watching.

Fair enough.

I didn't especially like Season 5 of The Wire but I kept watching. So I've been burned by my own argument!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JustinLewisFanClubPres on August 24, 2017, 09:55:33 AM
It's not a bad show, it's just a poorly done season.

I love the show, I just don't want to see it end on a sour note.  Especially, for how good it has been in seasons past.  I'm an enormous fan of the show and books.  I just think that they deserve the criticism that they're getting.

I think this is the bigger point that justifies the criticism and its not even HBO's fault necessarily. The show was nearly unassailable in its quality on all fronts for three or so seasons. Then, IMO, it seemed to start spinning it's wheels a bit as it kept introducing new story threads from the books that don't actually move the overarching story forward. That also seemed to be a direct result of waiting on Martin to write more, which hasn't happened, and I think ultimately led to a pivot from the showrunners and the rushed pacing we see now as HBO trues to close out the series before it fades to obscurity waiting on the books to finish.

Once all is said and done, I'd be curious to see someone's reaction to binging the entire series. I think that's type of viewing would show the issues being poin ted out more glaringly  - similar to rewatching The Wire now and realizing that Season 5 really failed to pales in comparison to earlier seasons.

It's still one of the best shows on TV. It has just gotten formulaic in a way that I've gotten spoiled in the golden age of television not to expect from prestogie drama. I wish there was more time to let these major events breathe and develop this season as I think that would have helped with the suspension of disbelief issues people - including myself - are having. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in seeing the series resolve though.


Edit: Haha. I guess The Wire was a pretty good example since two other people brought it up while I typed. Also, even though I feel that way about The Wire, I still think it is one of the greatest TV shows ever. I would guess most critics in this thread feel the same way about GoT.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 24, 2017, 10:19:27 AM
I suppose my issue with some of the criticism is that I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that some people go into watching an episode actually looking for things to nitpick, ridicule, or complain about. 

The White Walkers having chains to pull out the dragon is one example, which can be explained very easily. 

It's fine if some don't think the writing is as good or don't like the pacing - that's subjective.  But saying if someone disagrees then they don't know good writing is ridiculous.   

I've actually enjoyed the quicker pacing.  It doesn't feel rushed to me - it just feels like the stakes are higher.  That's how I felt in Breaking Bad's last season.  That show could have gone an additional season or more episodes and drawn things out but Gilligan executed the last season perfectly, and part of that was due to the quicker pacing and moving the story forward. (I am not saying the writing on GoT is as good as Breaking Bad).   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on August 24, 2017, 10:33:44 AM
You're all trying to figure out how long it took the ice to freeze, how long dragons take to fly across an island. ETC.

Im over here asking why the army of dead dont have arrows.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 24, 2017, 10:49:15 AM
I have to imagine HBO thought they'd have more source material by now. GoT Season 1 came out 3 months before A Dance With Dragons. Here we are over 6 years later and ADWD is still the most recent book Martin has released. Probably figured they'd have more source material by now.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 24, 2017, 11:00:17 AM
I'm fine with people having different opinions on the quality is this season. It's more the disparging of others with a different opinion on the quality of the season that I think is rubbing people the wrong way.

Im over here asking why the army of dead dont have arrows.

Asked myself the same question.  Im still thinking this was a trap for the dragons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 24, 2017, 11:16:45 AM
In the books the dudes turn while in the black cells at castle black.   

They were likely in the process of turning when discovered.  Sam had noted that there would be a smell if they had been dead for any length of time, but there was none.


Quote
And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.

The throwaways were very strange and took a little away from it for me.  Several times I thought someone important had just gotten KO'd only to find that they made up five or six extra people that went along on the hike to kill off.  Either just kill Thoros or kill someone else too.


Anyhoo, I've enjoyed this season and the show for what it is.  It's still quite good, but they lost any chance to stay on par with the books when they botched Stannis in every way possible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 24, 2017, 11:31:04 AM
Being critical of the pacing, plot lines, writing, dialogue, etc., is entirely fair game. It's all subjective, after all (though, as Vander Blue Man Group notes, it's ridiculous to argue that anyone who disagrees with your subjective opinion is somehow less capable of recognizing quality).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 24, 2017, 11:46:32 AM
And that no one important dies on the lake is even more absurd.   

Well....except a dragon.

Despite that, I agree with this. I was waiting for a classic, "Phew, everyone survived, can't beli....HOLY CRAP WHAT JUST HAPPENED, I CAN'T BELIEVE *insert character here* JUST DIED." Instead, everyone but the redshirts and the red priest made it. I was disappointed by the lack of a major death. I think the writers maybe thought the death of a dragon would be impactful enough, but I just don't connect to them the same way I connect to a character. Half the time I don't know which dragon is on screen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 24, 2017, 12:12:53 PM
I suppose my issue with some of the criticism is that I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that some people go into watching an episode actually looking for things to nitpick, ridicule, or complain about. 

The White Walkers having chains to pull out the dragon is one example, which can be explained very easily. 

It's fine if some don't think the writing is as good or don't like the pacing - that's subjective.  But saying if someone disagrees then they don't know good writing is ridiculous.   

I think its more when you overall don't enjoy the episode, you start thinking of things about it.  This is the first episode in awhile where I was like "for F*** sake".  And yes, I was one of those who complained about the chains, not in a nitpicky sense, but because it all seemed so easy and convenient.

And I totally get your point about complaining about someone not knowing good writing, but the flip side are those who act like anyone who doesn't gleefully lap up everything GoT throws out, then they are some TV snob who is never happy.

And for the record, for all of my "negativity" in this thread, I'm still very much looking forward to Sunday.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 24, 2017, 12:17:52 PM
I think this is the bigger point that justifies the criticism and its not even HBO's fault necessarily. The show was nearly unassailable in its quality on all fronts for three or so seasons. Then, IMO, it seemed to start spinning it's wheels a bit as it kept introducing new story threads from the books that don't actually move the overarching story forward. That also seemed to be a direct result of waiting on Martin to write more, which hasn't happened, and I think ultimately led to a pivot from the showrunners and the rushed pacing we see now as HBO trues to close out the series before it fades to obscurity waiting on the books to finish.

Once all is said and done, I'd be curious to see someone's reaction to binging the entire series. I think that's type of viewing would show the issues being poin ted out more glaringly  - similar to rewatching The Wire now and realizing that Season 5 really failed to pales in comparison to earlier seasons.

It's still one of the best shows on TV. It has just gotten formulaic in a way that I've gotten spoiled in the golden age of television not to expect from prestogie drama. I wish there was more time to let these major events breathe and develop this season as I think that would have helped with the suspension of disbelief issues people - including myself - are having. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in seeing the series resolve though.


Edit: Haha. I guess The Wire was a pretty good example since two other people brought it up while I typed. Also, even though I feel that way about The Wire, I still think it is one of the greatest TV shows ever. I would guess most critics in this thread feel the same way about GoT.

Yes, exactly this.

The chains could have been, like many things on this show in the past, been quietly alluded to.  Chains in the distance with wights carrying them, for instance, in a wide shot.  I'm not saying we need Chekov's gun situations every time, but the implication that the ambush was planned ahead of time would have been better... rather than being happenstance.  Its all just a little less clever and more ham fisted than we should expect from this show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 24, 2017, 12:24:51 PM
Yes, exactly this.

The chains could have been, like many things on this show in the past, been quietly alluded to.  Chains in the distance with wights carrying them, for instance, in a wide shot.  I'm not saying we need Chekov's gun situations every time, but the implication that the ambush was planned ahead of time would have been better... rather than being happenstance.  Its all just a little less clever and more ham fisted than we should expect from this show.

For example, the zombie bear was shown clearly to indicate that the walkers could also turn dead animals. That was a prelude to the zombie dragon. Otherwise it would have made no sense that all a sudden we find out animals can be undead.

Related, after Jon and company's encounter with the bear.. does he really have zero thoughts that the dragon might be next?

Also, I'm buying into the theory that bran is the night king.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 24, 2017, 12:27:43 PM
For example, the zombie bear was shown clearly to indicate that the walkers could also turn dead animals. That was a prelude to the zombie dragon. Otherwise it would have made no sense that all a sudden we find out animals can be undead.

Related, after Jon and company's encounter with the bear.. does he really have zero thoughts that the dragon might be next?

Also, I'm buying into the theory that bran is the night king.

Didn't we already know animals could be turned? We've seen Walkers on top of horses for at least 3-4 seasons now.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 24, 2017, 01:07:33 PM
I think its more when you overall don't enjoy the episode, you start thinking of things about it.  This is the first episode in awhile where I was like "for F*** sake".  And yes, I was one of those who complained about the chains, not in a nitpicky sense, but because it all seemed so easy and convenient.

And I totally get your point about complaining about someone not knowing good writing, but the flip side are those who act like anyone who doesn't gleefully lap up everything GoT throws out, then they are some TV snob who is never happy.

And for the record, for all of my "negativity" in this thread, I'm still very much looking forward to Sunday.

Fair points. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 24, 2017, 01:11:53 PM
For example, the zombie bear was shown clearly to indicate that the walkers could also turn dead animals. That was a prelude to the zombie dragon. Otherwise it would have made no sense that all a sudden we find out animals can be undead.

Related, after Jon and company's encounter with the bear.. does he really have zero thoughts that the dragon might be next?

Also, I'm buying into the theory that bran is the night king.

Well I'm guessing at the point Jon didn't realize the group may have needed the dragons to survive this particular encounter so they weren't part of the equation.  That seemed like a last-gasp longs shot (although you can definitely argue they should have known it may have been necessary considering their odds).

Now, in terms of the Night King's spear, I got the impression it can take down a dragon regardless of where it hits it (unlike the scorpion, which would basically need a direct hit).  Is that correct or incorrect?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on August 24, 2017, 02:34:08 PM
There is a theory going around that Jon will become the Night King in order to lead the wights etc. back beyond the wall. It goes further to speculate that the Night King used to be Azor Ahai. It claims that Azor is the original Night King, took up the job in a moment of sacrifice (like Jon Snow will), and even helped build the wall:

"Someone has to 'pull out' the dragonglass in his chest which was used to create him in the first place. By doing this the Night King would 'die,' but unlike what happens when someone kills a 'normal' white walker, none of the creatures the Night king 'created' or turned would die. Instead they would lose the mind controlling effect the Night King has on them, and they would start doing whatever the f*ck they want, i.e. rampaging around the country. To prevent this scenario from happening someone has to take the place of the Night King by stabbing himself with the previously extracted dragonglass-dagger. By doing this the person (in our mind Jon Snow) would sacrifice himself for the greater good, gaining control over all of the wights and walkers. He then would lead them back over the wall back into the north where they would stay like it has been before since the last long night (like a beast in a cage)."

"After that the Night King secluded himself far in the North where no one else could survive. Now over time (in the many years since the Long Night) the personality of the former Azor Ahai slowly began to decay and he finally turned into what we see now in the series as the Night King. At some point the vanishing personality of Azor Ahai could no longer hold in check the 'evil' that was lingering inside him. At that point the Night King started moving again, returning from the far North and slowly started creating new white walkers / wights as he had before.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 24, 2017, 11:11:16 PM
For example, the zombie bear was shown clearly to indicate that the walkers could also turn dead animals. That was a prelude to the zombie dragon. Otherwise it would have made no sense that all a sudden we find out animals can be undead.

Related, after Jon and company's encounter with the bear.. does he really have zero thoughts that the dragon might be next?

Also, I'm buying into the theory that bran is the night king.

Actually, no.  The zombie bear was not there for any particular purpose.  The produces have admitted that they put it in, simply because they thought the idea of a zombie polar bear was cool...not for any other actual purpose. 

Apparently they've been trying to introduce a zombie polar bear for several seasons, but there was never even a remote opportunity to do so.  With them being north of the wall in season 7, it was their best opportunity so they scripted it in.  That's it, no special purpose (as others have noted we already knew animals could turn), simply they thought it was cool.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 24, 2017, 11:20:20 PM
There is a theory going around that Jon will become the Night King in order to lead the wights etc. back beyond the wall. It goes further to speculate that the Night King used to be Azor Ahai. It claims that Azor is the original Night King, took up the job in a moment of sacrifice (like Jon Snow will), and even helped build the wall:

"Someone has to 'pull out' the dragonglass in his chest which was used to create him in the first place. By doing this the Night King would 'die,' but unlike what happens when someone kills a 'normal' white walker, none of the creatures the Night king 'created' or turned would die. Instead they would lose the mind controlling effect the Night King has on them, and they would start doing whatever the f*ck they want, i.e. rampaging around the country. To prevent this scenario from happening someone has to take the place of the Night King by stabbing himself with the previously extracted dragonglass-dagger. By doing this the person (in our mind Jon Snow) would sacrifice himself for the greater good, gaining control over all of the wights and walkers. He then would lead them back over the wall back into the north where they would stay like it has been before since the last long night (like a beast in a cage)."

"After that the Night King secluded himself far in the North where no one else could survive. Now over time (in the many years since the Long Night) the personality of the former Azor Ahai slowly began to decay and he finally turned into what we see now in the series as the Night King. At some point the vanishing personality of Azor Ahai could no longer hold in check the 'evil' that was lingering inside him. At that point the Night King started moving again, returning from the far North and slowly started creating new white walkers / wights as he had before.


I think Rhaegar Targaryen was the prince that was promised and Jon Snow is Lightbringer.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 25, 2017, 06:57:41 AM
I'm still loving the show, but I really wish they hadn't got ahead of the books. When they started to diverge from the book storyline in Season 2, most notably with the House of the Undying storyline, it was a disappointment. Now it's quite a ways from the beaten track. Stannis, Barristan Selmy, and so many others will still be alive whenever Martin gets back to writing. The Battle of the Bastards hasn't happened, Cersei's bombing of the Great Sept of Baelor, having watched the episodes without any books in 6 years will likely have me completely confused by the time TWOW finally comes out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 25, 2017, 10:16:10 AM
I'm still loving the show, but I really wish they hadn't got ahead of the books. When they started to diverge from the book storyline in Season 2, most notably with the House of the Undying storyline, it was a disappointment. Now it's quite a ways from the beaten track. Stannis, Barristan Selmy, and so many others will still be alive whenever Martin gets back to writing. The Battle of the Bastards hasn't happened, Cersei's bombing of the Great Sept of Baelor, having watched the episodes without any books in 6 years will likely have me completely confused by the time TWOW finally comes out.

Curious, as I've never watched the show nor read the books (I'm weird because I consume space based sci-fi by IV but HATE fantasy sci-fi), but what percentage of show watchers are actually book readers? I get the impression that the majority of watchers have at best a passing awareness of the books. How much concern did HBO have with staying with the book if the audience wasn't majority into the books.

Plus, didn't this show start like 8 years ago and there hasn't been a new book in that whole time? Seems pretty reasonable for HBO to think they would have had new source material to work off of by now and so has now had to audible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 25, 2017, 10:27:22 AM
Curious, as I've never watched the show nor read the books (I'm weird because I consume space based sci-fi by IV but HATE fantasy sci-fi), but what percentage of show watchers are actually book readers? I get the impression that the majority of watchers have at best a passing awareness of the books. How much concern did HBO have with staying with the book if the audience wasn't majority into the books.

Plus, didn't this show start like 8 years ago and there hasn't been a new book in that whole time? Seems pretty reasonable for HBO to think they would have had new source material to work off of by now and so has now had to audible.

Show started in April 2011, the fifth book came out later that same year. Book 6 was originally slated for 2015, but has been repeatedly pushed back. I think we'll see it next year, but who knows when the seventh (and final) book will be released. I honestly think 2024-2028 is a reasonable window.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: warriorchick on August 25, 2017, 10:51:50 AM
Show started in April 2011, the fifth book came out later that same year. Book 6 was originally slated for 2015, but has been repeatedly pushed back. I think we'll see it next year, but who knows when the seventh (and final) book will be released. I honestly think 2024-2028 is a reasonable window.

It will be easy for him to finish once the show determines the plotlines for him.

 ;D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 25, 2017, 11:17:33 AM
Show started in April 2011, the fifth book came out later that same year. Book 6 was originally slated for 2015, but has been repeatedly pushed back. I think we'll see it next year, but who knows when the seventh (and final) book will be released. I honestly think 2024-2028 is a reasonable window.

I'll take the bet that he never finishes.  He seems to be in no hurry, and he doesn't appear to be the most healthy man.  I think he finishes Book 6 sometime before 2020 and then we get someone else finishing the series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 25, 2017, 08:36:54 PM
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-beyond-the-wall-timeline-director-1202534403/

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/entertainment/game-of-thrones-nitpicking/index.html
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 25, 2017, 11:17:28 PM
Curious, as I've never watched the show nor read the books (I'm weird because I consume space based sci-fi by IV but HATE fantasy sci-fi), but what percentage of show watchers are actually book readers? I get the impression that the majority of watchers have at best a passing awareness of the books. How much concern did HBO have with staying with the book if the audience wasn't majority into the books.




HBO hired Martin as an advisor and screenwriter, so I imagine they wanted to stay pretty close to the storylines in the books. But at about 3,500 pages, there is obviously a lot of picking and choosing that needs to take place.

My guess is that you would enjoy the show. I have never read a fantasy novel in my life, but find the show fascinating.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on August 27, 2017, 09:24:31 PM
And the Walls,
Come tumbling down

Mellencamp.

See you in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 27, 2017, 09:26:47 PM
In before the naysayers...

A great episode!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 27, 2017, 09:35:34 PM
Loved the Ice Dragon, but the rest was crap.

And the Dany/Jon sex scene played out like bad Stephanie Meyer.

Early this year, I heard about a leaked script that had the Dany/Jon sex in it and it sounded so ridiculous, I thought  it was one of the fake scripts put out to throw people off the track.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on August 27, 2017, 09:43:59 PM
And the Walls,
Come tumbling down

Mellencamp.

See you in a couple of years.

Yeah, that was Eastwatch,  next stop the big wall.

Was that fire or ice coming from its mouth?

Is Jaime enroute to Winterfell by himself to alert them Cersai has gone back on word?

Ayria still has The Hound and Cersai on her list.  Should be interesting if she actually makes it.

One year to go, filming starts in October for last season with a September/October finale start date.  Read that today.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 27, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
Man 60% of the episode (it feels like) was spent on that Wight Summit and everything is the still the same besides Jaime leaving.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on August 27, 2017, 10:26:16 PM
Yay little finger is gone!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 27, 2017, 10:45:54 PM
Wow. Enjoyed the hell out of it. If that means I'm not "deep" enough for the book people, I plead guilty.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 27, 2017, 10:48:30 PM
Overall, very good episode.  Jaime leaves Cersei, Littlefinger dead, ice and fire united, and the wall comes down. 

In the books I was certain that Jon and Dany would marry/unite; wasn't as sure if they would do it in the show. 


Ayria still has The Hound and Cersai on her list.  Should be interesting if she actually makes it.


The Hound isn't on her list anymore.  He was removed.  Cersai is still on the list.  So is Ilyne Payne, Mellisandre, Berric Dondarrion, and the Mountain.  All the rest on the list are already dead.

I don't think she kills another person on her list.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 27, 2017, 11:23:10 PM
I'd put Arya down for another two on her list. Loved how Sansa handled Littlefinger. My only disappointment was thinking of Ned and how the person that passes the sentence should swing the blade.

The Ice Dragon was badass. Rendered the wall irrelevant. The Night King's army has full access to the south. They don't need to take down any more keeps.

The summit was too drawn out, especially if Tyrion didn't offer anything for Cersei's false pledge. Here's hoping we see Winds of Winter before the new year.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 28, 2017, 12:39:26 AM
Yeah, that was Eastwatch,  next stop the big wall.

Was that fire or ice coming from its mouth?

Is Jaime enroute to Winterfell by himself to alert them Cersai has gone back on word?

Ayria still has The Hound and Cersai on her list.  Should be interesting if she actually makes it.

One year to go, filming starts in October for last season with a September/October finale start date.  Read that today.

Nice - I had read the last season wouldn't premier until early 2019. Glad it hopefully won't be that long.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 28, 2017, 12:44:59 AM
Seems clear (at least to me) that last week was absolutely a plan by the Night King to get a dragon, which erases some questions.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on August 28, 2017, 06:15:08 AM
I think the last two sequences lends a lot of credence to the notion that Brann is at minimum connected to a white walker and probably the king. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2017, 07:20:33 AM
One year to go, filming starts in October for last season with a September/October finale start date.  Read that today.

Source?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 28, 2017, 07:38:56 AM
This article says the timing hasn't been finalized but that 2019 is still a possibility:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-why-wait-final-season-isnt-a-big-deal-anymore-1032873
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on August 28, 2017, 07:41:38 AM
Source?

Can't recall and didn't save.  Production/filming starts in October (saw that in interview with Jaime actor) and then hoping for September/October.  Season 7 was delayed because of weather, so it could depend on that.  Thats the source. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2017, 07:58:52 AM
I think the last two sequences lends a lot of credence to the notion that Brann is at minimum connected to a white walker and probably the king.

Wondering why you think that?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 28, 2017, 08:10:10 AM
I fully buy in to Jaime being the one to kill Cersei.  Yet I still fell for the bluff.  Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 28, 2017, 09:12:23 AM
Overall, this was a much better episode than last week's.  The main problem that I had was: What was the Night King's plan to get past the wall if the Band of Bros didn't go North to capture a wight, and then somehow they got word to get Dany to come with her dragons.  WHAT WAS THE PLAN THEN?  Just chill at the wall?  Climb it like the wildlings did?

You can't call it a trap or a plan for the NK to get a dragon because he has no known knowledge of dragons even existing anymore!

Now that I've got that out of my system, this season at Winterfell was a mess, but it ended well.  The scenes with Sansa and Arya earlier this year could have gone differently and I know they were just trying to build suspense... but it was sloppy.

I thought the scene at the Dragon Pit and everything surrounding Jamie and Cersei was great.  Well written, well acted, and individual character reactions and explanations all made sense... That said, I didn't love the fan service for CLEGANEBOWL. 

Jon and Dany scenes were well done as well.  Really good episode 8/10
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on August 28, 2017, 09:37:19 AM
You can't call it a trap or a plan for the NK to get a dragon because he has no known knowledge of dragons even existing anymore!

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Comet (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Comet)

I read somewhere that the NK would probably have seen the red comet we saw in S2 so he knew dragons were born and has been preparing for it. They seemed to have those spears ready for the dragons, not to mention the chains.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 28, 2017, 09:50:40 AM
Overall, this was a much better episode than last week's.  The main problem that I had was: What was the Night King's plan to get past the wall if the Band of Bros didn't go North to capture a wight, and then somehow they got word to get Dany to come with her dragons.  WHAT WAS THE PLAN THEN?  Just chill at the wall?  Climb it like the wildlings did?
You can't call it a trap or a plan for the NK to get a dragon because he has no known knowledge of dragons even existing anymore!
I'm not sure I understand your argument here.
Do you believe that the NK is connected enough to the world beyond the wall to have learned dragons went extinct at some point, but not connected enough to learn they were back?

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on August 28, 2017, 09:50:57 AM
So if Sansa and Arya had hatched this plan and were playing and setting up Littlefinger, why were they so antagonistic in their scenes together that only the audience could see?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on August 28, 2017, 10:40:58 AM
I think the last two sequences lends a lot of credence to the notion that Brann is at minimum connected to a white walker and probably the king.

I really hope this is right, because I think the final season has real limitations without at least some additional information about the white walker's nature and motivations. MWith the characters that are left, at some point more fight scenes and dragon on dragon violence gets a little tired, and the antagonists are becoming less three dimensional all the time. Outside of the walkers, Cersei/Euron are the only real antagonists left, and are starting to look like more powerful versions of the Freys, Boltons or other one-dimensional villains, whose motivations didn't need to be interesting because they played fairly transient roles. But Cersei had long been one of the more interesting characters in the show - her early scenes with Robert are great - and Headey is probably one of the best if not the best actor on the show. But Littlefinger, Varys, and some of the slower, cerebral characters added a ton that is getting lost now that things are moving so quickly (not that I'm sad to see this Littlefinger storyline end, because it was hot garbage).  My hope is that the writing sort of sacrificed what GoT was for the first 5 or so years this season for the sake of setting up a return to that slower, multi-dimensional pace of the earlier seasons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 28, 2017, 12:25:20 PM
Overall, this was a much better episode than last week's.  The main problem that I had was: What was the Night King's plan to get past the wall if the Band of Bros didn't go North to capture a wight, and then somehow they got word to get Dany to come with her dragons.  WHAT WAS THE PLAN THEN?  Just chill at the wall?  Climb it like the wildlings did?

You can't call it a trap or a plan for the NK to get a dragon because he has no known knowledge of dragons even existing anymore!

Now that I've got that out of my system, this season at Winterfell was a mess, but it ended well.  The scenes with Sansa and Arya earlier this year could have gone differently and I know they were just trying to build suspense... but it was sloppy.

I thought the scene at the Dragon Pit and everything surrounding Jamie and Cersei was great.  Well written, well acted, and individual character reactions and explanations all made sense... That said, I didn't love the fan service for CLEGANEBOWL. 

Jon and Dany scenes were well done as well.  Really good episode 8/10

Agree with all of this. 

As for the plan if they didn't get a dragon.  The intro to the show has clearly indicated that the ocean next to East Watch has completely frozen over so there is a land bridge around the wall.  Pretty much everyone thought they would use this to go around the wall. 

With the dragon they could now go through it, saving time/distance. 

The idea that the NK planned for a dragon is stupid, and even the directors haven't gone there.  There is no logical reason to predict that people would go north with a dragon that could be captured. 

The only things I wish was done differently on this episode was to have Arya pass the sentence so that the person passing the sentence would do the deed, like the Stark way.  Minor detail though. 

The other is the narrative regarding Cersei/Euron.  There was no way for them to predict them bringing a wight that would scare Euron into leaving, and no discussion between the two before he asks if they can swim and he runs.  So they couldn't have planned him sneaking off.  Again a minor detail that doesn't affect anything.

So overall great episode.  It sets up for a lot of political story lines next season and assuredly some great battle sequences. 

Big open questions:

What is Mellisandre doing in Essos?
Will the Golden Company stab Cersei in the back to reclaim the throne for themselves (that has been their goal)?
Will they craft new Valyrian steel?
Which army gets to Winterfell first, the dead?...or Jon/Dany?
Do they have time to craft dragonglass weapons?

Is Ellaria Sand still alive?

and so many more.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 28, 2017, 01:26:35 PM
I think last night completed Dany's Prophecy of Threes from the House of the Undying. Here's the original prophecy:

Quote from: House of the Undying
. . . three heads has the dragon . . .
. . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . .
. . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . .
. . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

Okay...so let's break it down. My belief is that the first item in each line has already occurred at the time of the prophecy:

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 28, 2017, 01:34:26 PM
As far as the Cersei/Euron plot, I think maybe Cersei DID know what was in the box. I think Tyrion may have fed her information and already betrayed Dany to his family before they even arrived at the Dragon Pit. It would allow Cersei and Euron time to hatch a reason for him to bail immediately to acquire the Golden Company. If Tyrion is the traitor, it explains a lot as far as how Cersei and Euron would be able to run roughshod over Dany's army and navy as they arrived, how they had the knowledge they did, and how they could plan contingencies for the impending Great War.

Also, the only time Dany has really been able to successfully combat Cersei's armies were when she went against Tyrion's advice and took Drogon to destroy Jamie's armies on the Rose Road. Tyrion's advice for Dany has worked out in spectacularly disastrous fashion since their return to Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LloydsLegs on August 28, 2017, 02:10:07 PM
My only disappointment was thinking of Ned and how the person that passes the sentence should swing the blade.

.

great call
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 28, 2017, 02:26:20 PM
As far as the Cersei/Euron plot, I think maybe Cersei DID know what was in the box. I think Tyrion may have fed her information and already betrayed Dany to his family before they even arrived at the Dragon Pit. It would allow Cersei and Euron time to hatch a reason for him to bail immediately to acquire the Golden Company. If Tyrion is the traitor, it explains a lot as far as how Cersei and Euron would be able to run roughshod over Dany's army and navy as they arrived, how they had the knowledge they did, and how they could plan contingencies for the impending Great War.

I'm not sure you have to go that far. Even without knowledge of the wight, Cersei knew the meeting was to broker some form of peace or truce. She and Euron could have hatched the plot for him to march off as if he's abandoning her regardless of what was in the box (what's in the box????).


Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 28, 2017, 04:22:54 PM
You can't call it a trap or a plan for the NK to get a dragon because he has no known knowledge of dragons even existing anymore!

First, what Pakuni said. Second, we know that the NK has some power of foresight given his ability to "see" Bran. Its not much of a stretch to think that the NK was well aware of Jon's plan, including that Dany would come to the rescue.

Agree with all of this. 

As for the plan if they didn't get a dragon.  The intro to the show has clearly indicated that the ocean next to East Watch has completely frozen over so there is a land bridge around the wall.  The other is the narrative regarding Cersei/Euron.  There was no way for them to predict them bringing a wight that would scare Euron into leaving, and no discussion between the two before he asks if they can swim and he runs.  So they couldn't have planned him sneaking off.  Again a minor detail that doesn't affect anything.

It was well established that everyone knew that Dany was coming to ask for a truce so that she could fight the army of dead in the north and that she was bringing some sort of proof. What else would the proof be? It would have been very easy for them to plan for Euron to come up with some sort of excuse to leave the meeting either angry or scared as a feint.

So if Sansa and Arya had hatched this plan and were playing and setting up Littlefinger, why were they so antagonistic in their scenes together that only the audience could see?

Littlefinger is a master of spies and knows everything about everyone. The only way to lure him into a trap is if he is convinced that the two are at odds. Only way to do that is to be antagonistic at all times.

Overall, I really enjoyed the episode. Thought the acting was great in the dragon pit, everyone had believable reactions to seeing a wight for the first time. Loved how everyone was freaking out about the dragon except Cersei who had her usual poker face. The line about Dany being late was deliciously dry. I really thought she was going to kill Jaime, I fell for the bluff. And though I never believed that she was actually sending troops North, they did about everything possible to make it seem like she was actually going to do it.

I agree with others that it wasn't the "Stark way" when Sansa handed down the sentence and Arya swung the sword. But I think the scene was supposed to emphasize that both characters had reached the pinnacle of their roles. Sansa as the lady and Arya as the warrior.

I enjoyed the scene with Theon as well. For some reason, I have always cheered for Theon and enjoyed seeing him get his groove back so to speak. The fact that it happened because the other guy was surprised by his lack of balls was humorous. I was expecting some sort of line about getting his ass kicked by a guy without a cock.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 28, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
Holy Dragons, you guys are deeply into this!

I love reading all of this stuff. Very interesting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on August 28, 2017, 05:20:10 PM
Now that the dead are south of the wall, I can't see the armies of the living going head-to-head with them and winning.  There has to be some kind of intervention from Bran, Melisandre/Lord of Light, Children of the Forest making a return, help from the other continent, or something.  However they don't have to destroy the entire army, just technically the Night King himself.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on August 28, 2017, 05:44:27 PM
Well I guess that settles the debate

https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/902245407589187584 (https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/902245407589187584)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 28, 2017, 05:55:56 PM
If nothing else, yesterday absolutely, 100% solidified that Jon Snow is "The Prince who was Promised". No doubt whatsoever. Here is the passage from A Clash of Kings with one of Dany's visions in the House of the Undying:

Quote from: A Clash of Kings
Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother's hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. "Aegon," he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. "What better name for a king?"

"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.

"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

Now that we know Jon's true name is Aegon Targaryean, and Dany mistook this individual for her brother Viserys, it all becomes clear. The man in the vision is Rhaegar Targaryean, talking to Lyanna as she nurses Aegon Targaryean/Jon Snow. Rhaegar then confirms that Jon is the prince that was promised.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 28, 2017, 07:46:11 PM
So just to get the lineage right ...

Dany is Jon's aunt?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 28, 2017, 07:54:46 PM
As far as the Cersei/Euron plot, I think maybe Cersei DID know what was in the box. I think Tyrion may have fed her information and already betrayed Dany to his family before they even arrived at the Dragon Pit. It would allow Cersei and Euron time to hatch a reason for him to bail immediately to acquire the Golden Company. If Tyrion is the traitor, it explains a lot as far as how Cersei and Euron would be able to run roughshod over Dany's army and navy as they arrived, how they had the knowledge they did, and how they could plan contingencies for the impending Great War.

Also, the only time Dany has really been able to successfully combat Cersei's armies were when she went against Tyrion's advice and took Drogon to destroy Jamie's armies on the Rose Road. Tyrion's advice for Dany has worked out in spectacularly disastrous fashion since their return to Westeros.

If Tyrion fed Cersei that info I will stop watching this show all together.  That would be just awful.  it would be an enormous departure from his character and make zero sense.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 28, 2017, 07:56:42 PM
So just to get the lineage right ...

Dany is Jon's aunt?

yes
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 28, 2017, 07:57:12 PM
This is a repost from Reddit, but it is exactly how I feel about the entire Winterfell subplot.

"Ok, so I guess the Stark girls were just acting like they had turned against one another in order to fool Littlefinger. What I don't understand is why. Why did they have to fool Littlefinger in the first place? What purpose did that serve? They had Bran and, presumably, all the evidence they needed against Littlefinger already, so why not just drag him out, expose his crimes, and execute him? Why did they have to do all that acting in front of him? In the end, all they did was accuse him of a bunch of stuff, which he simply denies. Then they just killed him anyway without actually producing any evidence to prove him wrong. I don't get the point of any of this. Someone please explain."
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on August 28, 2017, 08:02:37 PM
I agree with others that it wasn't the "Stark way" when Sansa handed down the sentence and Arya swung the sword. But I think the scene was supposed to emphasize that both characters had reached the pinnacle of their roles. Sansa as the lady and Arya as the warrior.

It may also have something to do with Arya being a faceless man. If she kills Littlefinger, she can assume his identity. If Sansa does it, I don't think Arya can use his face.
Is that correct?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 28, 2017, 08:09:00 PM
This is a repost from Reddit, but it is exactly how I feel about the entire Winterfell subplot.

"Ok, so I guess the Stark girls were just acting like they had turned against one another in order to fool Littlefinger. What I don't understand is why. Why did they have to fool Littlefinger in the first place? What purpose did that serve? They had Bran and, presumably, all the evidence they needed against Littlefinger already, so why not just drag him out, expose his crimes, and execute him? Why did they have to do all that acting in front of him? In the end, all they did was accuse him of a bunch of stuff, which he simply denies. Then they just killed him anyway without actually producing any evidence to prove him wrong. I don't get the point of any of this. Someone please explain."

I would imagine you don't want to give someone that devious any kind of inkling of what may be coming. And I imagine the appearance of how it went down matters in terms of the Lords of the Vale.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 28, 2017, 10:23:06 PM
I would imagine you don't want to give someone that devious any kind of inkling of what may be coming. And I imagine the appearance of how it went down matters in terms of the Lords of the Vale.

Plus, it was more dramatic this way. They got to take their viewing audience for a little bit of a ride.

This just in: It's still a TV show, still entertainment.

I liked it!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 28, 2017, 10:32:49 PM
This is a repost from Reddit, but it is exactly how I feel about the entire Winterfell subplot.

"Ok, so I guess the Stark girls were just acting like they had turned against one another in order to fool Littlefinger. What I don't understand is why. Why did they have to fool Littlefinger in the first place? What purpose did that serve? They had Bran and, presumably, all the evidence they needed against Littlefinger already, so why not just drag him out, expose his crimes, and execute him? Why did they have to do all that acting in front of him? In the end, all they did was accuse him of a bunch of stuff, which he simply denies. Then they just killed him anyway without actually producing any evidence to prove him wrong. I don't get the point of any of this. Someone please explain."

I think this is overthinking it.  I think the scene involving Arya/Sansa was just incredibly poorly scripted.  I think that is how it was supposed to be viewed, them turning on each other, because they were turning on each other (even though it isn't very logical). 

I think the big turning point in the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger battle royale came this episode when Littlefinger was playing his game.  In the middle of it Littlefinger asks the question of "Why she would have the letter".  At that point, the only ones who knew of the letter emerging were Sansa and Arya.  By asking that question he kind of tips her off that he was behind all of it, as the only way he could know of the letter is if he unearthed it.

Also, by posing the answer that Arya wants to kill her to become her, he actually defeats his own story.  If Arya wanted to kill Sansa to become her, she had her opportunity when they were in the room together.  She could have killed Sansa there, took her face and ruled as Sansa.  She didn't, she actually handed the dagger to Sansa, which meant that wasn't her purpose. Arya didn't want to kill her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 29, 2017, 08:51:55 AM
I think this is overthinking it.  I think the scene involving Arya/Sansa was just incredibly poorly scripted.  I think that is how it was supposed to be viewed, them turning on each other, because they were turning on each other (even though it isn't very logical). 

I think the big turning point in the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger battle royale came this episode when Littlefinger was playing his game.  In the middle of it Littlefinger asks the question of "Why she would have the letter".  At that point, the only ones who knew of the letter emerging were Sansa and Arya.  By asking that question he kind of tips her off that he was behind all of it, as the only way he could know of the letter is if he unearthed it.

Also, by posing the answer that Arya wants to kill her to become her, he actually defeats his own story.  If Arya wanted to kill Sansa to become her, she had her opportunity when they were in the room together.  She could have killed Sansa there, took her face and ruled as Sansa.  She didn't, she actually handed the dagger to Sansa, which meant that wasn't her purpose. Arya didn't want to kill her.

Very good point
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: THRILLHO on August 29, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
I think this is overthinking it.  I think the scene involving Arya/Sansa was just incredibly poorly scripted.  I think that is how it was supposed to be viewed, them turning on each other, because they were turning on each other (even though it isn't very logical). 

I agree it's poorly scripted, but so much so that it's hard to even analyze whether it makes sense. It's not even totally clear which interactions were performative and which were authentic. The one with the two of them in the room is especially confusing to me. If it's performative, who are they performing for? If not, then Arya really does seem to have a dangerous relationship to Sansa (which then seems to be undone in the Littlefinger trial scene).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on August 29, 2017, 09:16:39 AM
I think this is overthinking it.  I think the scene involving Arya/Sansa was just incredibly poorly scripted.  I think that is how it was supposed to be viewed, them turning on each other, because they were turning on each other (even though it isn't very logical). 

I think the big turning point in the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger battle royale came this episode when Littlefinger was playing his game.  In the middle of it Littlefinger asks the question of "Why she would have the letter".  At that point, the only ones who knew of the letter emerging were Sansa and Arya.  By asking that question he kind of tips her off that he was behind all of it, as the only way he could know of the letter is if he unearthed it.

Also, by posing the answer that Arya wants to kill her to become her, he actually defeats his own story.  If Arya wanted to kill Sansa to become her, she had her opportunity when they were in the room together.  She could have killed Sansa there, took her face and ruled as Sansa.  She didn't, she actually handed the dagger to Sansa, which meant that wasn't her purpose. Arya didn't want to kill her.

Would Sansa have known the significance of the blade when Arya handed it to her?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on August 29, 2017, 10:35:45 AM
Very good point

For the book folks, what is your honest gut thinking Martin will do to wrap this thing up?

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 29, 2017, 11:37:30 AM
I think this is overthinking it.  I think the scene involving Arya/Sansa was just incredibly poorly scripted.  I think that is how it was supposed to be viewed, them turning on each other, because they were turning on each other (even though it isn't very logical). 

I think the big turning point in the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger battle royale came this episode when Littlefinger was playing his game.  In the middle of it Littlefinger asks the question of "Why she would have the letter".  At that point, the only ones who knew of the letter emerging were Sansa and Arya.  By asking that question he kind of tips her off that he was behind all of it, as the only way he could know of the letter is if he unearthed it.

Also, by posing the answer that Arya wants to kill her to become her, he actually defeats his own story.  If Arya wanted to kill Sansa to become her, she had her opportunity when they were in the room together.  She could have killed Sansa there, took her face and ruled as Sansa.  She didn't, she actually handed the dagger to Sansa, which meant that wasn't her purpose. Arya didn't want to kill her.

Again ... stupid me ... I enjoyed it!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 29, 2017, 11:56:22 AM
I very much agree with this take:

This season of Game Of Thrones was illogical, dumb, and fun as hell

This season of Game Of Thrones was a fast-paced, wildly fun ride filled with huge battle sequences, long-awaited reunions, thrilling team-ups, and some of the most memorable deaths in the series’ history.

This season of Game Of Thrones was a knowingly rushed, ludicrously implausible bit of fan service, filled with improbable character alliances that seemed like they were lifted from some multiplayer video game, romances that felt like direct pandering to “shippers,” and some of the least surprising ends for the most relatively disposable characters left in a show that’s rapidly running out of major players to kill.

These statements sum up the general sentiments on either side of the drama’s polarizing seventh season—and I agree with both of them. This season was breakneck, sloppy, and occasionally downright stupid. It was also a lot of fun.


http://www.avclub.com/this-season-of-game-of-thrones-was-illogical-dumb-and-1798505721?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayAM
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 29, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
I very much agree with this take:

This season of Game Of Thrones was illogical, dumb, and fun as hell

This season of Game Of Thrones was a fast-paced, wildly fun ride filled with huge battle sequences, long-awaited reunions, thrilling team-ups, and some of the most memorable deaths in the series’ history.

This season of Game Of Thrones was a knowingly rushed, ludicrously implausible bit of fan service, filled with improbable character alliances that seemed like they were lifted from some multiplayer video game, romances that felt like direct pandering to “shippers,” and some of the least surprising ends for the most relatively disposable characters left in a show that’s rapidly running out of major players to kill.

These statements sum up the general sentiments on either side of the drama’s polarizing seventh season—and I agree with both of them. This season was breakneck, sloppy, and occasionally downright stupid. It was also a lot of fun.


http://www.avclub.com/this-season-of-game-of-thrones-was-illogical-dumb-and-1798505721?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayAM

I agree with this too.  I think everyone here has said they enjoyed this season, some (like me) have just been critical of the parts that were not done well. 

I think this is a bit of the constant battle between art/entertainment.  Film as an art is something that I am passionate about, I haven't worked in that arena, but I have many friends who have and even have friends who have worked on GOT.  From them I've learned how to critique theater and film.  I greatly appreciated film done well as an art form. 

But Film is also entertainment, and often what is technically well done as art, and was is pure entertainment are not one and the same. 

What made GOT unique is that it was exceptionally well crafted as art, and was exceptionally entertaining.  Someone like me could watch the show and be purely entertained and go back and watch it for its technical precision.  This season, that technical aspect as exceptionality as art has kind of been lost in some episodes, but it retains the pure entertainment/fan service aspects. 

The equivalent but opposite (in my abilities) is art.  A painting to me is only valuable if I look at it and think its cool, I have zero concern over it being original, unique or even well done.  What I like in art has zero to do with technical precision.  I hate most modern art.  IMO that doesn't make me dumb (nor does it makes someone stupid if they don't see problems in GOT), it just means that art to me serves a different purpose...entertainment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 29, 2017, 01:24:59 PM
For the book folks, what is your honest gut thinking Martin will do to wrap this thing up?

I just started AGOT again this morning and plan to read all five again. Hopefully when I'm wrapping up, we get The Winds of Winter so I can just keep going. As far as expectations...

1) Valonqar Prophecy comes true: Cersei will die before her child is born. The Prophecy said her husband would have 16 children and she would have 3. She already had Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella, so #4 never gets born. It will either be the guise of Tyrion or Jamie that kills her. I strongly suspect it will be Arya using Jamie's face. I think Tyrion is too obvious from the start and Jamie is the one she would allow to get close enough to her to kill her. That will leave the Iron Throne vacant for...
2) Tyrion turns traitor: I believe Tyrion is Daenaerys' third treason. I think he is setting Dany and Jon up, and secretly loves Dany and feels jealousy now that Jon is in the picture. I think he betrays them, but before he can deliver them to Cersei, she dies, which opens up the Iron Throne for the next Lannister in line, which just happens to be Tyrion.
3) King Tyrion Targaryean: Tyrion turns out to be the bastard of King Aerys II Targaryean. This not only allows him to claim the Iron Throne as the next Lannister, but solidify his claim by stating he is the eldest surviving Targaryean. I do think he will initially help in the Great War against the Night King, but will oppose Jon and Dany after the Night King is defeated.
4) Bran is the Night King: The penultimate battle will be the Great War with Jon riding Rhaegal and Dany astride Drogon. At some point, it will be revealed that Bran's consciousness has been in the Night King all along. Just too much evidence, and the show has certainly pointed to it. Jon will learn this before his final battle with the Night King. I do think Lady Stoneheart and Gregor Clegane will both have major parts to play in the Great War.
5) Someone will replace the Night King: I don't think it will be Jon or Dany, but I do think the Army of the Dead will march back North to rest for 8,000 more years. Maybe one of the already undead, like Stoneheart or the Mountain, maybe the current body of young Bran Stark, maybe Arya, I'm not sure. The Jon theory makes the most sense, but I think he ends up in King's Landing.
6) The last "Big Bad" will be King Tyrion: After the Great War, I think Jon and Dany (married by then) will go to war with King Tyrion for the Iron Throne. Ultimately, I do think Jon sits on the Iron Throne, fulfilling Dany's vision from the House of the Undying.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on August 29, 2017, 01:27:07 PM
I very much agree with this take:

This season of Game Of Thrones was illogical, dumb, and fun as hell

This season of Game Of Thrones was a fast-paced, wildly fun ride filled with huge battle sequences, long-awaited reunions, thrilling team-ups, and some of the most memorable deaths in the series’ history.

This season of Game Of Thrones was a knowingly rushed, ludicrously implausible bit of fan service, filled with improbable character alliances that seemed like they were lifted from some multiplayer video game, romances that felt like direct pandering to “shippers,” and some of the least surprising ends for the most relatively disposable characters left in a show that’s rapidly running out of major players to kill.

These statements sum up the general sentiments on either side of the drama’s polarizing seventh season—and I agree with both of them. This season was breakneck, sloppy, and occasionally downright stupid. It was also a lot of fun.


http://www.avclub.com/this-season-of-game-of-thrones-was-illogical-dumb-and-1798505721?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=tuesdayAM

I think it is a typical last/next to last season on great shows. Much, much better than most shows.

There are lots of things that need to be tied up and not enough time - so some of them just need to be done for convenience.

Overall, this season was as enjoyable as any of the first six.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 29, 2017, 01:42:15 PM
So just to get the lineage right ...

Dany is Jon's aunt?

To tie it all together:

Daenerys older brother was Rhaegar, Jon's father.  Rhaegar had already been killed by Robert Baratheon when Jon was born in Dorne.

After Rhaegar was killed, Mad King Aerys' pregnant wife (Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenery's mother) was evacuated to Dragonstone with Viserys.  After Robert took the Iron Throne, he sent Stannis to take Dragonstone.  Shortly before this, the queen had died giving birth to Daenerys.  A Targaryen loyalist had gotten Viserys and Daenerys across the Narrow Sea by the time Stannis got to Dragonstone.

So Jon - born in Dorne to Rhaegar (already dead) and Lyanna (died in childbirth), Daenerys born on Dragonstone to Aerys (already dead) and Queen Rhaella (died in childbirth).  Making Daenerys aunt, Jon nephew, though unlike most nephews, Jon is a few months older.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 29, 2017, 03:41:29 PM
I just started AGOT again this morning and plan to read all five again. Hopefully when I'm wrapping up, we get The Winds of Winter so I can just keep going. As far as expectations...

1) Valonqar Prophecy comes true: Cersei will die before her child is born. The Prophecy said her husband would have 16 children and she would have 3. She already had Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella, so #4 never gets born. It will either be the guise of Tyrion or Jamie that kills her. I strongly suspect it will be Arya using Jamie's face. I think Tyrion is too obvious from the start and Jamie is the one she would allow to get close enough to her to kill her. That will leave the Iron Throne vacant for...
2) Tyrion turns traitor: I believe Tyrion is Daenaerys' third treason. I think he is setting Dany and Jon up, and secretly loves Dany and feels jealousy now that Jon is in the picture. I think he betrays them, but before he can deliver them to Cersei, she dies, which opens up the Iron Throne for the next Lannister in line, which just happens to be Tyrion.
3) King Tyrion Targaryean: Tyrion turns out to be the bastard of King Aerys II Targaryean. This not only allows him to claim the Iron Throne as the next Lannister, but solidify his claim by stating he is the eldest surviving Targaryean. I do think he will initially help in the Great War against the Night King, but will oppose Jon and Dany after the Night King is defeated.
4) Bran is the Night King: The penultimate battle will be the Great War with Jon riding Rhaegal and Dany astride Drogon. At some point, it will be revealed that Bran's consciousness has been in the Night King all along. Just too much evidence, and the show has certainly pointed to it. Jon will learn this before his final battle with the Night King. I do think Lady Stoneheart and Gregor Clegane will both have major parts to play in the Great War.
5) Someone will replace the Night King: I don't think it will be Jon or Dany, but I do think the Army of the Dead will march back North to rest for 8,000 more years. Maybe one of the already undead, like Stoneheart or the Mountain, maybe the current body of young Bran Stark, maybe Arya, I'm not sure. The Jon theory makes the most sense, but I think he ends up in King's Landing.
6) The last "Big Bad" will be King Tyrion: After the Great War, I think Jon and Dany (married by then) will go to war with King Tyrion for the Iron Throne. Ultimately, I do think Jon sits on the Iron Throne, fulfilling Dany's vision from the House of the Undying.

So you plan to finish your reread of A Dance With Dragons somewhere in 2025?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 29, 2017, 04:18:27 PM
So you plan to finish your reread of A Dance With Dragons somewhere in 2025?

I think we'll see ADWD by next year at the latest. But I think 2025 is about right for A Dream of Spring. And I'll probably re-read it all again before that one comes out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on August 29, 2017, 04:28:03 PM
I think we'll see ADWD by next year at the latest. But I think 2025 is about right for A Dream of Spring. And I'll probably re-read it all again before that one comes out.

They gonna invent a cure for heart disease by 2025, Martin ain't looking too good these days.

As for the books/show... I'm curious, if or how these last two seasons of the show will impact Martin and his writing. I'm not all that familiar with the writing side of things, but has Martin stated he has a framework or outline of how the story ends, or more open ended based on where his brain takes him?

On the Ringer podcast, they had stated and I found interesting that when started GoT, he was partly motivated by making sooooo in depth that it could not get adapted for the screen.

Has he been generally supportive of Benioff and Weiss?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 29, 2017, 04:40:19 PM
They gonna invent a cure for heart disease by 2025, Martin ain't looking too good these days.

As for the books/show... I'm curious, if or how these last two seasons of the show will impact Martin and his writing. I'm not all that familiar with the writing side of things, but has Martin stated he has a framework or outline of how the story ends, or more open ended based on where his brain takes him?

On the Ringer podcast, they had stated and I found interesting that when started GoT, he was partly motivated by making sooooo in depth that it could not get adapted for the screen.

Has he been generally supportive of Benioff and Weiss?

Yes he told them the ending, but tested them to see if they were actually fans before green lighting the series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 29, 2017, 07:04:32 PM
I just started AGOT again this morning and plan to read all five again. Hopefully when I'm wrapping up, we get The Winds of Winter so I can just keep going. As far as expectations...

1) Valonqar Prophecy comes true: Cersei will die before her child is born. The Prophecy said her husband would have 16 children and she would have 3. She already had Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella, so #4 never gets born. It will either be the guise of Tyrion or Jamie that kills her. I strongly suspect it will be Arya using Jamie's face. I think Tyrion is too obvious from the start and Jamie is the one she would allow to get close enough to her to kill her. That will leave the Iron Throne vacant for...
2) Tyrion turns traitor: I believe Tyrion is Daenaerys' third treason. I think he is setting Dany and Jon up, and secretly loves Dany and feels jealousy now that Jon is in the picture. I think he betrays them, but before he can deliver them to Cersei, she dies, which opens up the Iron Throne for the next Lannister in line, which just happens to be Tyrion.
3) King Tyrion Targaryean: Tyrion turns out to be the bastard of King Aerys II Targaryean. This not only allows him to claim the Iron Throne as the next Lannister, but solidify his claim by stating he is the eldest surviving Targaryean. I do think he will initially help in the Great War against the Night King, but will oppose Jon and Dany after the Night King is defeated.
4) Bran is the Night King: The penultimate battle will be the Great War with Jon riding Rhaegal and Dany astride Drogon. At some point, it will be revealed that Bran's consciousness has been in the Night King all along. Just too much evidence, and the show has certainly pointed to it. Jon will learn this before his final battle with the Night King. I do think Lady Stoneheart and Gregor Clegane will both have major parts to play in the Great War.
5) Someone will replace the Night King: I don't think it will be Jon or Dany, but I do think the Army of the Dead will march back North to rest for 8,000 more years. Maybe one of the already undead, like Stoneheart or the Mountain, maybe the current body of young Bran Stark, maybe Arya, I'm not sure. The Jon theory makes the most sense, but I think he ends up in King's Landing.
6) The last "Big Bad" will be King Tyrion: After the Great War, I think Jon and Dany (married by then) will go to war with King Tyrion for the Iron Throne. Ultimately, I do think Jon sits on the Iron Throne, fulfilling Dany's vision from the House of the Undying.

I disagree with many of your predictions.

1.  Cersei dies during childbirth/still born.  Prophecy is fulfilled as the birth that kills her is because of her little brother.  Other possibilities are Euron (little brother to Balon).  I don't think it will be as obvious as Jaime or Tyrion.

2.  Although I won't rule out a Tyrion betrayal of Dany because of Jon, I think it highly unlikely.  Dany was already romantically involved with other instead of Tyrion and he stood by her.  It would be way out of character to betray her at this point.  Frankly with how its been scripted so far, Tyrion setting up Jon/Dany would be insanely stupid. 

3.  Tyrion may become King, but not by betrayal and not because of him being a bastard.  If he was a bastard he would still have the weakest claim to the throne.  Gendry actually has a stronger claim.  I think it may be Tyrion because Dany realizes she never actually wanted the throne, rather she wanted to be home.  I think she essentially retires to the home with the red door she left as a kid.  Jon goes back to winterfell or the wall and Jon and Dany's kid rules Westeros with Tyrion as the proxy king until he becomes of age.

4.  I agree with you.

5.  I don't think that will happen.  It would be very dumb if it is Jon.

6.  Don't like that set up.  See above.  I think it more likely that the Golden Company claims the throne or Euron (leading the Golden Company).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 29, 2017, 11:04:46 PM
To tie it all together:

Daenerys older brother was Rhaegar, Jon's father.  Rhaegar had already been killed by Robert Baratheon when Jon was born in Dorne.

After Rhaegar was killed, Mad King Aerys' pregnant wife (Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenery's mother) was evacuated to Dragonstone with Viserys.  After Robert took the Iron Throne, he sent Stannis to take Dragonstone.  Shortly before this, the queen had died giving birth to Daenerys.  A Targaryen loyalist had gotten Viserys and Daenerys across the Narrow Sea by the time Stannis got to Dragonstone.

So Jon - born in Dorne to Rhaegar (already dead) and Lyanna (died in childbirth), Daenerys born on Dragonstone to Aerys (already dead) and Queen Rhaella (died in childbirth).  Making Daenerys aunt, Jon nephew, though unlike most nephews, Jon is a few months older.

Thanks for this, chapman. Great info.

So whose incest baby will be born next: Dany/Jon's or Cersei/Jaime's?!?!?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on August 30, 2017, 08:18:44 AM
4) Bran is the Night King: The penultimate battle will be the Great War with Jon riding Rhaegal and Dany astride Drogon. At some point, it will be revealed that Bran's consciousness has been in the Night King all along. Just too much evidence, and the show has certainly pointed to it. Jon will learn this before his final battle with the Night King. I do think Lady Stoneheart and Gregor Clegane will both have major parts to play in the Great War.

I'm not a book reader, can you elaborate on Lady Stoneheart?  From Google it appears she is the reincarnated Catelyn Stark?  From what I remember this isn't in the shows at all.  And also do you think these characters will have major roles because they are possibly already "undead" themselves?  I sure hope Gregor Clegane has some big role because I've been waiting for him to be unleashed ever since he was turned by Qyburn.  Every time I think he is going to lay waste to a few people, he gets pulled back.  One of these times he has to actually pull his sword instead of just stepping in front of people.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on August 30, 2017, 08:53:08 AM
I'm not a book reader, can you elaborate on Lady Stoneheart?  From Google it appears she is the reincarnated Catelyn Stark?  From what I remember this isn't in the shows at all.  And also do you think these characters will have major roles because they are possibly already "undead" themselves?  I sure hope Gregor Clegane has some big role because I've been waiting for him to be unleashed ever since he was turned by Qyburn.  Every time I think he is going to lay waste to a few people, he gets pulled back.  One of these times he has to actually pull his sword instead of just stepping in front of people.

Not a book reader as well, but I did some reading on Lady Stoneheart when she started popping up in theories this season.

In the books, one of the direwolves pulls Catelyn Stark's body from the river after the Red Wedding.  Beric Donderrian brings her back to life basically giving his life for hers and she becomes the leader of the Brotherhood and basically goes on a revenge killing spree.

Now, obviously Beric is still alive and well, fighting with Jon and the gang in the tv show, so that plot won't necessarily hold up.  However, viewers have supposedly seen Lady Stoneheart walking around Winterfell in background shots, so who knows.  They'd have to tweak the plot obviously.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 30, 2017, 09:51:10 AM

2) Tyrion turns traitor: I believe Tyrion is Daenaerys' third treason. I think he is setting Dany and Jon up, and secretly loves Dany and feels jealousy now that Jon is in the picture. I think he betrays them, but before he can deliver them to Cersei, she dies, which opens up the Iron Throne for the next Lannister in line, which just happens to be Tyrion.

I mean, who knows, but the director of the season finale seems to think that's unlikely. Also, wouldn't Jamie be next in the Lannister line?

So what everyone is wondering about is what we should read into Tyrion’s expression as he stands outside Dany’s room while she and Jon are having sex inside. He definitely looks apprehensive, but are we meant to see jealousy as well?

Well I think there’s jealousy, but it’s maybe not romantic jealousy, in the way that it is for Jorah, for example. I think that for Tyrion, it’s more complicated. I think he has a very special relationship with Dany and he really believes in her as a true leader and has invested a lot in her. I think for him, with Jon and Dany getting together, this represents a possible undermining of his position with her and also a monkey wrench thrown into what the master plan really is meant to be around this entire alliance. The way I see it is Tyrion is a bit of a strategist—not just a bit of a strategist, he is a major strategist—and I think now, he can’t see where this is gonna go and that’s very difficult for someone who is always thinking three steps ahead. The consequences of Dany and Jon getting together are completely unknown. Is she gonna make decisions now based on this new relationship? Is she gonna be able to separate her personal [interests] from the interests of the greater group? What is this going to foretell for the alliance and what they’re all meant to do as a united front? So I think the worry for him is that now, everything is up for grabs. We don’t really know who’s going to side with who, what’s gonna happen at the end of the day, and which alliances are going to be the strongest.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-finale-director-no-romantic-jealousy-in-tyrions-reaction-to-jon-and-danys-boat-sex?via=twitter_page
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 30, 2017, 10:45:44 AM
If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 30, 2017, 11:22:16 AM
Maybe Bran is the Sun King, the one the Beatles sang about.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on August 30, 2017, 11:35:51 AM
If Bran is the Night King:
So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?
Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?
What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.
Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?
Just trying to make sense of all this.

I'm certainly not smart enough to track all the ins and outs, but Bran's ability to go back in time and interact (yelling to Ned during the first Lyanna flashback) could explain a lot here. I do think that there's a disconnect between the Night King's origin story in the books vs the show.

In the show, the Children create the first Walker (who is also the Night King?) with magic and dragonglass to defend them against the First Men. That first Walker could have some connection to a time-traveling Bran, or at least the Stark family (maybe a Stark ancestor that had similar powers to Bran's, which enables them to interact?).

In the books, as I understand it, the Night King is a fallen Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with a White Walker woman. So presumably in the book canon, the Night King and the first Walker are two different individuals? I do think there's a connection between Bran and the Night King, but I think its born out of a connection between the origin relationship between the White Walkers (and specifically the Night King) and the humans, and the show just hasn't given us enough info on that yet. That's why I hope the last season slows down a bit now that all that pesky plot is behind us, and focuses on the Walkers as another faction in the GoT universe, with their own rational goals and intentionality. Not only would it clear up what is a really interesting plotline, but it makes them a lot more interesting than if they're just a bloodthirsty zombie horde - e.g., what does the Night King actually want?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 30, 2017, 11:47:03 AM
If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.

The idea is that Bran went back in time and "warged" into the night king in an attempt to stop him. Eventually he became lost in the night king which can happen when you stay too long.  So he lost any sense of loyalty to self, family,  or the living. So Bran has been the night king all along... He just hasn't time travelled back yet.

It's an interesting theory.  I haven't bought into it fully yet. I'd be kind of disappointed because time travel is rarely ever done well.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on August 30, 2017, 12:17:22 PM
If Bran is the Night King:

So whose consciousness was in the Night King before Bran became the 3-eyed raven?

Was not Bran after becoming the 3-eyed raven pursued by the army of the dead only to be saved by Hodor holding the door?

What motivation does Bran have to allow the army of the dead to kill off all the living including his siblings.

Is it Bran or the 3-eyed-raven who is the Night King?

Just trying to make sense of all this.

One of the theories is that Bran is tied to all the prior Brandon Starks.  Part of that stems from statements by Old Nan, where she mentions that all the Brans are the same to her. 

Along those same lines, it is thought that the Night King was a Brandon Stark, who was turned by the children of the forest. So, there is a tie throughout history between all the Brandon's and the Night King. 

As for differences between the books and the show.  I'm not sure that there are any.  There are stories of the Night King that differ, but they are legends.  The actual origin of the Night King, and if it is the same thing as the Great Other (leader of the white walkers) is unknown.  Different legends by different groups.

GRRM said that ties between the "Great Other"/Night King and the children of the forest (e.g. if they created them as a weapon) would be resolved in later books. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on August 30, 2017, 08:04:44 PM
I'm certainly not smart enough to track all the ins and outs, but Bran's ability to go back in time and interact (yelling to Ned during the first Lyanna flashback) could explain a lot here. I do think that there's a disconnect between the Night King's origin story in the books vs the show.

In the show, the Children create the first Walker (who is also the Night King?) with magic and dragonglass to defend them against the First Men. That first Walker could have some connection to a time-traveling Bran, or at least the Stark family (maybe a Stark ancestor that had similar powers to Bran's, which enables them to interact?).

In the books, as I understand it, the Night King is a fallen Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with a White Walker woman. So presumably in the book canon, the Night King and the first Walker are two different individuals? I do think there's a connection between Bran and the Night King, but I think its born out of a connection between the origin relationship between the White Walkers (and specifically the Night King) and the humans, and the show just hasn't given us enough info on that yet. That's why I hope the last season slows down a bit now that all that pesky plot is behind us, and focuses on the Walkers as another faction in the GoT universe, with their own rational goals and intentionality. Not only would it clear up what is a really interesting plotline, but it makes them a lot more interesting than if they're just a bloodthirsty zombie horde - e.g., what does the Night King actually want?

I like it. Probably spending half of each of 2-3 episodes could clear a lot up and would be extremely interesting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on August 31, 2017, 09:06:56 AM
So are you guys saying that GoT is going to boil down to a series of causal loops? Fun.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 31, 2017, 02:13:46 PM
I mean, who knows, but the director of the season finale seems to think that's unlikely. Also, wouldn't Jamie be next in the Lannister line?

Not if Arya killed him and took his face. I'm thinking that's how the Valonqar prophecy is fulfilled, Cersei murdered by younger brother Jamie, except it's actually Arya wearing dead Jamie's face.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on August 31, 2017, 02:22:31 PM
Not if Arya killed him and took his face. I'm thinking that's how the Valonqar prophecy is fulfilled, Cersei murdered by younger brother Jamie, except it's actually Arya wearing dead Jamie's face.

But if's it's Arya in disguise, then it's not really Jamie .... and thus doesn't fulfill the prophecy that Cerseii would be killed by a younger brother.
Also, doesn't the prophecy say Cersei would be strangled to death? Arya doesn't seem the strangling type, and strangling is a passionate, inmate act not in character with her distant, calm assassin demeanor.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 31, 2017, 02:31:30 PM
But if's it's Arya in disguise, then it's not really Jamie .... and thus doesn't fulfill the prophecy that Cerseii would be killed by a younger brother.
Also, doesn't the prophecy say Cersei would be strangled to death? Arya doesn't seem the strangling type, and strangling is a passionate, inmate act not in character with her distant, calm assassin demeanor.

Not saying I think Brew is right,  but prophicies being misinterpreted is a cornerstone in fantasy storytelling. Arya wearing Jaimie's face would totally count. And Arya isnt above a little torture (See Meryn Trant). I could see her strangling somebody.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 31, 2017, 02:44:15 PM
The prophecy says “When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” I really think this does point to her not carrying to term. Three children are promised and three she has had. Losing a fourth via miscarriage could put her over the edge. If Arya/Jamie arrived at that moment, I could easily see a heartbroken Cersei throwing herself into Jamie's arms, only for him to choke her to death before removing the face to see Arya underneath.

As TAMU mentioned, prophecies can be misinterpreted. She could just as easily be choked by a rope, pillow, or the inability to breathe through a slashed throat (ala Littlefinger). Even Missandei's recent comment about how the High Valyrian translation of Azor Ahai reincarnated uses a gender-neutral pronoun, so it could be the Prince or Princess who was Promised, shows that ASOIAF acknowledges the misinterpretations of prophecies within its own storylines.

Here's a good article I just found that goes into some more detail about why Cersei may not be long for this show.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-cersei-pregnant-miscarriage-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 31, 2017, 03:31:30 PM
As tired / fan-serviced in as it would be, I could see some Cleganebowl action removing the Mountain bodyguard presence next time Jaime sees Cersei. 

I'm also fully expecting Jaime to get to Winterfell eventually, apologize for crippling Bran, and getting the creepy/cheesy "it's ok, it was meant to happen, so sayeth the Raven" dialogue from Bran.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 31, 2017, 07:17:03 PM
Re-reading the first book...man there are some moments that really are just making me chuckle. Watching how Littlefinger essentially started the entire War of the Five Kings by blaming Tyrion for owning the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, followed by the moment Cat stands up and calls to all her bannermen in the inn before Tyrion's arrest. Or Jamie throwing Bran out the window. Listening to whiny Viserys as he goes on and on about how Khal Drogo owes him an army.

GRRM is really a great writer. Fascinating stuff to re-read, and so well planned out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: chapman on August 31, 2017, 07:34:03 PM
Re-reading the first book...man there are some moments that really are just making me chuckle. Watching how Littlefinger essentially started the entire War of the Five Kings by blaming Tyrion for owning the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, followed by the moment Cat stands up and calls to all her bannermen in the inn before Tyrion's arrest. Or Jamie throwing Bran out the window. Listening to whiny Viserys as he goes on and on about how Khal Drogo owes him an army.

GRRM is really a great writer. Fascinating stuff to re-read, and so well planned out.


I remember the Dorne, the Iron Islands, and Brienne in the Riverlands being rough on the first read, and much, much better the second time when you're looking for a few things and read into some theories.

If you didn't try it earlier, highly recommend the combined A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons combined reading guides.  I did the one from Boiled Leather, but there's also a newer one called A Feast With Dragons.  Much more enjoyable than reading through AFFC then picking up ADWD.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on August 31, 2017, 10:08:48 PM
Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on August 31, 2017, 10:52:14 PM
Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?

I would. I actually am really enjoying another read through knowing what I know now. It gives a greater depth and character insight than the shows ever could.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on September 01, 2017, 05:59:55 AM
Avid show watcher and fantasy fan in general. Should I read the books even though the show is this far along?
absolutely
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on September 01, 2017, 07:36:32 PM
November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 01, 2017, 11:36:18 PM
November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.

A year and two months beats a year and at least four months.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: B. McBannerson on September 01, 2017, 11:47:04 PM
November 2018.  Season 8 will be here.

2019 highly probable and most likely.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on September 03, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
http://www.cracked.com/blog/2-major-laws-fiction-that-are-screwing-game-thrones/

I think I agree with this
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on September 03, 2017, 12:08:14 PM
http://www.cracked.com/blog/2-major-laws-fiction-that-are-screwing-game-thrones/

I think I agree with this

Some of this is due to the need to restrict the total number of characters in the show.  In the books there are countless additional major characters that were never even introduced to the show.  A few examples.

Dorne plays a much bigger role and the characters in Dorne are major players.
Young Griff
Lady Stoneheart
Victarion

and many others.

The books set up a lot of different arcs that may involve "main characters", the show distills this down to the ones that are most important.  That by default limits the number of deaths of main characters to those whose deaths will have important meanings, e.g. all the dead Starks. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on September 04, 2017, 05:34:54 PM
I am predicting that one of the Bran reveals next year is that he was in King Aerys II's head and was the reason he went mad.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on September 04, 2017, 07:29:53 PM
I am predicting that one of the Bran reveals next year is that he was in King Aerys II's head and was the reason he went mad.

Heard that theory quite a few times, but there's two holes I see. First, the White Walkers weren't there during Robert's Rebellion, so who is Bran telling him to burn. Second, Aerys II Targaryean had no dragons, so what would he be expected to burn them with?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on September 04, 2017, 08:47:07 PM
Heard that theory quite a few times, but there's two holes I see. First, the White Walkers weren't there during Robert's Rebellion, so who is Bran telling him to burn. Second, Aerys II Targaryean had no dragons, so what would he be expected to burn them with?

There were white walkers in the north, just far fewer at that time

Wildfire
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 04, 2017, 11:13:18 PM
Wildfire

I would love to see some wildfire vs. the army of the dead. Hadn't considered that possibility before.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on September 05, 2017, 05:53:12 AM
There were white walkers in the north, just far fewer at that time

Wildfire

I know they were there, but from a practicality point, they were sleeping and too far north for the Mad King to ever get to.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on September 10, 2017, 08:35:30 PM
What impact will the Golden Company have on Westeros?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: B. McBannerson on September 19, 2017, 09:53:56 PM
2019 for sure   :-[
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on September 18, 2018, 08:08:19 AM
Bump.

I FINALLY convinced my wife to watch Game of Thrones from the beginning, and we are 7 episodes into Season 1 -- we watched 6 over the weekend as the rain fell on Charlotte.

She is really enjoying it, despite having to wince a few times because of all the gore. She has a pretty high threshold for TV violence -- actually liked Sons of Anarchy, The Shield, Walking Dead, Sopranos, etc -- but the graphic depiction of blood everywhere on GoT even has made her say, "Ewww!"a few times. Beyond that, though, she has liked the story and the character development so far.

The bonus for me is that I get to watch it again. I had only seen it once through, and now watching it again with the perspective of knowing what the story arc here is quite eye-opening. Characters I hadn't recalled seeing way back in the first few episodes (Theon, Bronn, Lorus) are there, and I'm going, "Oh yeah ... that's where he started ... " I've also noticed many subtleties I missed the first time, when I was just trying to follow the story.

I was pleased to see that GoT won the Emmy last night. Truly deserving, as Season 7 was amazing. Same for Peter Dinklage. Lena Headley no doubt was a strong contender, too. I LOVE hating Cersei, and watching the series again from the start has reinforced that. What a conniving beyotch!!!

HBO confirmed that Season 8 won't air until 2019, and the latest speculative reports I've seen say April. The good news is that gives us plenty of time to watch the first seven seasons!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
Bump.

I FINALLY convinced my wife to watch Game of Thrones from the beginning, and we are 7 episodes into Season 1 -- we watched 6 over the weekend as the rain fell on Charlotte.

She is really enjoying it, despite having to wince a few times because of all the gore. She has a pretty high threshold for TV violence -- actually liked Sons of Anarchy, The Shield, Walking Dead, Sopranos, etc -- but the graphic depiction of blood everywhere on GoT even has made her say, "Ewww!"a few times. Beyond that, though, she has liked the story and the character development so far.

The bonus for me is that I get to watch it again. I had only seen it once through, and now watching it again with the perspective of knowing what the story arc here is quite eye-opening. Characters I hadn't recalled seeing way back in the first few episodes (Theon, Bronn, Lorus) are there, and I'm going, "Oh yeah ... that's where he started ... " I've also noticed many subtleties I missed the first time, when I was just trying to follow the story.

I was pleased to see that GoT won the Emmy last night. Truly deserving, as Season 7 was amazing. Same for Peter Dinklage. Lena Headley no doubt was a strong contender, too. I LOVE hating Cersei, and watching the series again from the start has reinforced that. What a conniving beyotch!!!

HBO confirmed that Season 8 won't air until 2019, and the latest speculative reports I've seen say April. The good news is that gives us plenty of time to watch the first seven seasons!

I just want GRRM to stop f*cking around with every project under the sun and finish the damn books.

The spinoffs that HBO are working on will be awesome too, can't wait for those.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on September 18, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
I just want GRRM to stop f*cking around with every project under the sun and finish the damn books.

The spinoffs that HBO are working on will be awesome too, can't wait for those.

Plenty of time.  A healthy guy like him could live forever.

(http://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/117/photos/662000/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-516662.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on September 18, 2018, 11:09:30 AM
Plenty of time.  A healthy guy like him could live forever.

(http://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/117/photos/662000/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-516662.jpg)

Someone get that man's zipper a raise it's working harder than GRRM is working on The Winds of Winter.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 18, 2018, 01:35:03 PM
Someone get that man's zipper a raise it's working harder than GRRM is working on The Winds of Winter.

That's the same pair of jeans that was used in the vice gripes scene in Dazed and Confused.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 05, 2019, 12:31:36 PM
Trailer dropped a couple hours ago
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on March 05, 2019, 12:39:09 PM
Trailer dropped a couple hours ago

Ooh ... I gotta hold off on watching that.

I am rewatching the entire series with Mrs. 82, who is watching for the first time. Just watched Season 7, Ep. 1, so almost all caught up.

I just about never re-watch stuff, but I'm gonna say that GOT is even better the second time. Picking up on so much I missed the first go-round. If any of y'all are thinking about re-watching but not sure about it, I highly recommend!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on March 06, 2019, 08:18:44 AM
What are the odds on the Night King?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 06, 2019, 09:52:49 AM
What are the odds on the Night King?

Odds on him... Winning? Sitting on the iron throne? Being bran? Being a stark? Dying? Challenging Jon to a dance off?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on March 06, 2019, 10:31:52 AM
I've gotta start my re-watch.  Hopefully I can finish before the new season starts.  Can't wait. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on March 06, 2019, 11:04:51 AM
What are the odds on the Night King?

Bovada currently has the Night King's money line at +1000.

Other notables:
Bran Stark: -150
Jon Snow: +600
Sansa Stark: +800
Jon and Daenerys’ Child:   +1000
Tyrion Lannister: +1000
Daenerys: +1200
Gendry: +1500
Arya Stark: +1800
Cersei Lannister: +2500
Samwell Tarly:   +3300
Jaime Lannister: +4000
Davos: +8000
Euron Greyjoy: +10000
Varys: +10000
Beric Dondarrion: +10000
Brienne of Tarth: +10000
Bronn: +10000
Daario Naharis: +10000
Jaqun H’ghar: +10000
Jorah Mormont: +10000
Melisandre: +10000
Petyr Baelish: +10000
The Hound: +10000
Theon Greyjoy: +10000
Yara Greyjoy   +10000
Tormund Giantsbane: +12500
Gilly: +15000
The Mountain: +15000
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on March 06, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
Bovada currently has the Night King's money line at +1000.

Other notables:
Bran Stark: -150
Jon Snow: +600
Sansa Stark: +800
Jon and Daenerys’ Child:   +1000
Tyrion Lannister: +1000
Daenerys: +1200
Gendry: +1500
Arya Stark: +1800
Cersei Lannister: +2500
Samwell Tarly:   +3300
Jaime Lannister: +4000
Davos: +8000
Euron Greyjoy: +10000
Varys: +10000
Beric Dondarrion: +10000
Brienne of Tarth: +10000
Bronn: +10000
Daario Naharis: +10000
Jaqun H’ghar: +10000
Jorah Mormont: +10000
Melisandre: +10000
Petyr Baelish: +10000
The Hound: +10000
Theon Greyjoy: +10000
Yara Greyjoy   +10000
Tormund Giantsbane: +12500
Gilly: +15000
The Mountain: +15000

Were they not offering odds on Benny being the Night King? I mean, come on, it's pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on March 06, 2019, 12:23:00 PM
Bovada currently has the Night King's money line at +1000.

Other notables:
Bran Stark: -150
Jon Snow: +600
Sansa Stark: +800
Jon and Daenerys’ Child:   +1000
Tyrion Lannister: +1000
Daenerys: +1200
Gendry: +1500
Arya Stark: +1800
Cersei Lannister: +2500
Samwell Tarly:   +3300
Jaime Lannister: +4000
Davos: +8000
Euron Greyjoy: +10000
Varys: +10000
Beric Dondarrion: +10000
Brienne of Tarth: +10000
Bronn: +10000
Daario Naharis: +10000
Jaqun H’ghar: +10000
Jorah Mormont: +10000
Melisandre: +10000
Petyr Baelish: +10000
The Hound: +10000
Theon Greyjoy: +10000
Yara Greyjoy   +10000
Tormund Giantsbane: +12500
Gilly: +15000
The Mountain: +15000
I see Bovada doesn't subscribe to the Dog Army theory.

Currently in S6 of my rewatch. So many instances of foreshadowing and hindsight is fun. Forgot about some pretty epic moments.

Personally, my vote is for anyone BUT Shae.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on March 06, 2019, 01:18:48 PM
Kit Harington was on with Colbert last night. Talked about how difficult it has been to have to do countless interviews while not revealing anything about the upcoming season.

https://www.eonline.com/news/1021113/kit-harington-was-told-a-bunch-of-game-of-thrones-ending-theories-and-his-reactions-will-make-your-day

At one point, he did make a reference to the last episode of Season 7. He only kind of apologized for giving out a spoiler for those who haven't finished catching up yet.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LloydsLegs on March 06, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
I see Bovada doesn't subscribe to the Dog Army theory.

Currently in S6 of my rewatch. So many instances of foreshadowing and hindsight is fun. Forgot about some pretty epic moments.

Personally, my vote is for anyone BUT Shae.

She is the worst. 

I’m a Gilly man. Those are great odds.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2019, 12:59:08 AM
Bovada currently has the Night King's money line at +1000.

Other notables:
Bran Stark: -150
Jon Snow: +600
Sansa Stark: +800
Jon and Daenerys’ Child:   +1000
Tyrion Lannister: +1000
Daenerys: +1200
Gendry: +1500
Arya Stark: +1800
Cersei Lannister: +2500
Samwell Tarly:   +3300
Jaime Lannister: +4000
Davos: +8000
Euron Greyjoy: +10000
Varys: +10000
Beric Dondarrion: +10000
Brienne of Tarth: +10000
Bronn: +10000
Daario Naharis: +10000
Jaqun H’ghar: +10000
Jorah Mormont: +10000
Melisandre: +10000
Petyr Baelish: +10000
The Hound: +10000
Theon Greyjoy: +10000
Yara Greyjoy   +10000
Tormund Giantsbane: +12500
Gilly: +15000
The Mountain: +15000

What happens if Sansa and Tyrion rule as Wife and Husband? Do people betting on either win?

My current bet is for Sansa and Tyrion sharing the throne. Unifies the two competing lineages. Not to different from the War of the Roses which inspired GRRM.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on March 07, 2019, 10:44:04 AM
What happens if Sansa and Tyrion rule as Wife and Husband? Do people betting on either win?

My current bet is for Sansa and Tyrion sharing the throne. Unifies the two competing lineages. Not to different from the War of the Roses which inspired GRRM.

You believe there's only TWO competing lineages?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2019, 11:46:02 PM
You believe there's only TWO competing lineages?

No, but I think Tyrion is 1/2 Targaryen. So he has both Lannister and Targaryen blood. Sansa is a Stark, but is close to the Baratheon lineage because of the close relationship of her father to Robert.

Would unify the main competitors. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 08, 2019, 05:03:28 AM
No, but I think Tyrion is 1/2 Targaryen. So he has both Lannister and Targaryen blood. Sansa is a Stark, but is close to the Baratheon lineage because of the close relationship of her father to Robert.

Would unify the main competitors.

I could see Tyrion being 1/2 Targaryen in the books but not in the show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on March 10, 2019, 12:46:43 PM
I could see Tyrion being 1/2 Targaryen in the books but not in the show.

Agreed, on big differences between the books and show.

In the books I expect that the third dragon will be ridden by another Targaryen (not the Night King). I think that will likely be Tyrion. 

On a different note. A recent interview of the actor who plays the Night King indicated that the Night King is on a mission to kill a specific person. Can that be anyone other than Bran?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on March 10, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
On a different note. A recent interview of the actor who plays the Night King indicated that the Night King is on a mission to kill a specific person. Can that be anyone other than Bran?

Some would say that's a suicide mission.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 12, 2019, 07:18:09 AM
Agreed, on big differences between the books and show.

In the books I expect that the third dragon will be ridden by another Targaryen (not the Night King). I think that will likely be Tyrion. 

On a different note. A recent interview of the actor who plays the Night King indicated that the Night King is on a mission to kill a specific person. Can that be anyone other than Bran?

It's pretty clearly Jon or Bran. There's nobody else that's had significant interactions with the Nigh King. I read a theory about him being after baby Sam because he feels cheated out of a kid that was offered to him but that seems like a stupid motivation.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on March 12, 2019, 09:59:03 PM
It's pretty clearly Jon or Bran. There's nobody else that's had significant interactions with the Nigh King. I read a theory about him being after baby Sam because he feels cheated out of a kid that was offered to him but that seems like a stupid motivation.

I can't see it being Jon though. The Night King is an entity that spans time. Unless there is something we don't know about Jon, on the grand cosmic scale, then I just don't see why he would be after Jon.

Has to be Bran. The question is then, is it because Bran and the Night King are linked across time. Is, as Pakuni says, it simply so he can finally be dead, and undo the wrongs committed in his creation.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on March 12, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Wow ... this is some deep stuff!

Just finished watching Season 7, so I've now seen the entire series twice. Loved it more the second time, and Mrs. 82 couldn't believe how good it was. She's mad at herself that she didn't watch it the first time around when I did! We're both looking forward to next month.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on March 13, 2019, 12:01:53 AM
Wow ... this is some deep stuff!

Just finished watching Season 7, so I've now seen the entire series twice. Loved it more the second time, and Mrs. 82 couldn't believe how good it was. She's mad at herself that she didn't watch it the first time around when I did! We're both looking forward to next month.

Interesting remark. Reminds me of something my wife and I talked about when True Detective Season 3 came on. We discussed whether to watch it each week or wait two months to watch it all at once.

I think one reason that GoT seemed better the second time through is that when bingeing, you remember way more detail from show to show. So much of the detail of what has happened is lost when you have to wait 7 days for the next hour. Netflix has spoiled all of us, I guess.

Chances are we will watch every Sunday night, but that decision is based mostly on being able to talk to people about the show on a weekly basis.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on March 13, 2019, 08:51:19 AM
Interesting remark. Reminds me of something my wife and I talked about when True Detective Season 3 came on. We discussed whether to watch it each week or wait two months to watch it all at once.

I think one reason that GoT seemed better the second time through is that when bingeing, you remember way more detail from show to show. So much of the detail of what has happened is lost when you have to wait 7 days for the next hour. Netflix has spoiled all of us, I guess.

Chances are we will watch every Sunday night, but that decision is based mostly on being able to talk to people about the show on a weekly basis.

We only semi-binge-watched it. My wife has to wake up early every morning to work (Sugar Mamas have a tough life). So we only have about an hour in the evenings to watch TV. So it's not as if we would watch multiple episodes at a sitting. And we have other stuff we want to watch. Plus, we took about a month break between watching the end of Season 5 and the start of Season 6. So it took us many months to watch all 7 seasons.

Having watched it once before, I knew the arc of the series. I had a vague memory of the first few seasons, a better memory of the more recent ones. Watching it again led to many, "Oh yeah, THAT'S what happened to so-and-so" moments. Also, watching with a person who hadn't seen it before made me the "authority." Helping explain some of the more complex stuff to my wife actually made it more enjoyable to me. There were a few times we had to rewind to make sure we heard what we thought we heard or saw what we thought we saw. I did a good job of not "spoiling" some of the more shocking scenes. Like I didn't say, "Oh, wait till you see the Red Wedding in the next episode."

All in all, it was a very enjoyable experience, and we're looking forward to Season 8.

The Night King can't win, can he? Can he?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on March 13, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
The Night King can't win, can he? Can he?

Given this is the show/book series that killed off the main protagonist in Season 1, brutally murdered a likable character and his pregnant wife, and wantonly does nothing to "protect" likable or virtuous characters, I'd say he has a good of a chance as anyone.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on March 13, 2019, 11:27:59 AM
We only semi-binge-watched it. My wife has to wake up early every morning to work (Sugar Mamas have a tough life). So we only have about an hour in the evenings to watch TV. So it's not as if we would watch multiple episodes at a sitting. And we have other stuff we want to watch. Plus, we took about a month break between watching the end of Season 5 and the start of Season 6. So it took us many months to watch all 7 seasons.

Having watched it once before, I knew the arc of the series. I had a vague memory of the first few seasons, a better memory of the more recent ones. Watching it again led to many, "Oh yeah, THAT'S what happened to so-and-so" moments. Also, watching with a person who hadn't seen it before made me the "authority." Helping explain some of the more complex stuff to my wife actually made it more enjoyable to me. There were a few times we had to rewind to make sure we heard what we thought we heard or saw what we thought we saw. I did a good job of not "spoiling" some of the more shocking scenes. Like I didn't say, "Oh, wait till you see the Red Wedding in the next episode."

All in all, it was a very enjoyable experience, and we're looking forward to Season 8.

The Night King can't win, can he? Can he?

Depends on what you mean by win. My theory is that there will be a new peace deal (like was forged with the Last Hero), where they give the Night King what he wants. Dany and Jon's son, so that he can create his heir, the new Night King.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 14, 2019, 09:22:11 PM
Happily, I was wrong about not being able to watch it live on HBO GO.

Enjoyed the episode very much. Moved the story forward nicely. A couple of nits, but nothing major.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 14, 2019, 10:18:48 PM
Happily, I was wrong about not being able to watch it live on HBO GO.

Enjoyed the episode very much. Moved the story forward nicely. A couple of nits, but nothing major.

Was Arya's drawn weapon one to take out the ice dragon, the night king, or both? Looks like a ranged dragon class weapon.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 14, 2019, 10:24:40 PM
Was Arya's drawn weapon one to take out the ice dragon, the night king, or both? Looks like a ranged dragon class weapon.

Depends what comes up on the 20 sided die when you roll it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 15, 2019, 07:08:15 AM
Was Arya's drawn weapon one to take out the ice dragon, the night king, or both? Looks like a ranged dragon class weapon.

Seems like a double sided spear type thing that can come apart into two different weapons
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2019, 08:59:14 AM
Depends what comes up on the 20 sided die when you roll it.

Crapshoot?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 15, 2019, 09:10:44 AM
Pity, she'll be dead within the year from the pox.

Which one?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2019, 09:32:17 AM
Pity, she'll be dead within the year from the pox.

Which one?

My wife had the same reaction.

My main nit from last night was why would the Night King bother to "send a message"? Why wouldn't he just lay waste to everybody and everything? He doesn't seem like the subtle (or even not-so-subtle) message-sending type.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 15, 2019, 09:44:13 AM
And who would he expect to get the message, since he has already moved on and there shouldn't be any enemies behind him?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 15, 2019, 10:03:31 AM
Maybe it was just sky high expectations and hype, but I found the first episode to be pretty slow and boring. I'm sure it will pick up, but with only 6 episodes in the season I expected more.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 15, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
Maybe it was just sky high expectations and hype, but I found the first episode to be pretty slow and boring. I'm sure it will pick up, but with only 6 episodes in the season I expected more.

The first episode of the season is always a bit slow in order to reset the pieces in the right place.  Even in a 6 episode season I think it was necessary.   On the flip side, I felt the reveal of Jon's parentage came out rather abrupt.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 15, 2019, 10:24:07 AM
The first episode of the season is always a bit slow in order to reset the pieces in the right place.  Even in a 6 episode season I think it was necessary.   On the flip side, I felt the reveal of Jon's parentage came out rather abrupt.

Sam's been on the run in the woods, traveling like a vagrant, then locked in in a library for years.  He got the mic and told the DJ "run that beat back", he wasn't wasting any time
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 15, 2019, 10:34:17 AM
My main nit from last night was why would the Night King bother to "send a message"? Why wouldn't he just lay waste to everybody and everything? He doesn't seem like the subtle (or even not-so-subtle) message-sending type.

Maybe this is overly optimistic, especially with only a handful of episodes left, but I'm hoping this is the introduction of the white walkers as "just another house" in the sense that they have their own motivations and traditions and even sentimentality.  I get that their supernatural origin will always mean they're very different from the human houses, but I think a more "I Am Legend" type of zombie (the book not the movie) vs a Romero brain stem only type of zombie would add a lot to a story that is in danger of disintegrating into chaotic plot development where I don't really care about any of the major characters.  Between the Night King actor's slip about killing a specific person, the swirl sigil, etc., it seems we might be moving that direction.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 15, 2019, 10:40:19 AM
The first episode of the season is always a bit slow in order to reset the pieces in the right place.  Even in a 6 episode season I think it was necessary.   On the flip side, I felt the reveal of Jon's parentage came out rather abrupt.
Initial reaction was it was slow but that's a fair point.

My favorite moment was Bran's "waiting for an old friend" comment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2019, 11:14:03 AM
Maybe this is overly optimistic, especially with only a handful of episodes left, but I'm hoping this is the introduction of the white walkers as "just another house" in the sense that they have their own motivations and traditions and even sentimentality.  I get that their supernatural origin will always mean they're very different from the human houses, but I think a more "I Am Legend" type of zombie (the book not the movie) vs a Romero brain stem only type of zombie would add a lot to a story that is in danger of disintegrating into chaotic plot development where I don't really care about any of the major characters.  Between the Night King actor's slip about killing a specific person, the swirl sigil, etc., it seems we might be moving that direction.

Interesting stuff. I don't quite see it, but it would be something if you end up being right about this.

Maybe it was just sky high expectations and hype, but I found the first episode to be pretty slow and boring. I'm sure it will pick up, but with only 6 episodes in the season I expected more.

I didn't feel this way at all. The pace was just about exactly what I expected having recently re-watched the entire series. As UWW2 suggested, the most important order of business was Jon's right to the throne, and that was handled well IMHO. I thought Cersei putting a hit out on Jamie was significant. And we got a good look at what Sansa and Arya have become ... with Arya seemingly set for a fairly significant role in fighting the Night King.

Obviously, I was quite satisfied with the episode and very much look forward to the rest of the series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 15, 2019, 11:25:27 AM
The episode was 54 minutes, 5 minutes of which was watching Jon and Daenerys ride around on Dragons. 30 seconds of this would have been cool, but this just felt like filler.

Sure, there was some semi-interesting dialogue and set up, but nothing really happened. I give the episode a C-
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
The episode was 54 minutes, 5 minutes of which was watching Jon and Daenerys ride around on Dragons. 30 seconds of this would have been cool, but this just felt like filler.

Sure, there was some semi-interesting dialogue and set up, but nothing really happened. I give the episode a C-

As is your right.

B+ from me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 15, 2019, 01:11:00 PM
Although I've seen the show in its entirety at least twice, the new opening credits sequence was quite the blunt reminder of how much things have changed the past 7 seasons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 15, 2019, 02:16:53 PM
One comment I'll make about the Arya thing w/ her weapon.  I hope this isn't too spoilery (I dont' think it is because this is just rehashing old info), but remember all the prophecies about the prince that was promised, azhor Azai and the flaming sword and all that jazz.  This fancy weapon really doesn't fit the bill and as awesome of a character Arya is, she doesn't have that prophecy fulfilling feel to her.   

That being said, I think that foreshadows her being the one to take down the ice dragon so that Jon or whoever can ultimately take out the Night King. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 15, 2019, 02:18:01 PM

SNL - HBO's new Game of Thrones spin-off shows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8EF3X8EI2o
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 15, 2019, 04:07:17 PM
One comment I'll make about the Arya thing w/ her weapon.  I hope this isn't too spoilery (I dont' think it is because this is just rehashing old info), but remember all the prophecies about the prince that was promised, azhor Azai and the flaming sword and all that jazz.  This fancy weapon really doesn't fit the bill and as awesome of a character Arya is, she doesn't have that prophecy fulfilling feel to her.   

That being said, I think that foreshadows her being the one to take down the ice dragon so that Jon or whoever can ultimately take out the Night King.

That would be cool.

Arya is one of my favorite bad-arses in TV history. Also, I chuckled as she flirted with Gendry.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 21, 2019, 05:59:26 PM
Watched the episode early via a European leak on amazon.

Definitely was uncomfortable watching a certain scene when I was watching season 1, with everyone a lot younger just the other day...
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 21, 2019, 06:22:51 PM
No context summary

(https://preview.redd.it/lleeb6k15pt21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=72c6850056036d0812d2a706acac6e5c1bf0e33c)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2019, 09:38:25 PM
No context summary

(https://preview.redd.it/lleeb6k15pt21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=72c6850056036d0812d2a706acac6e5c1bf0e33c)

Great summary. Cracked me up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2019, 09:52:14 PM
No context summary

(https://preview.redd.it/lleeb6k15pt21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=72c6850056036d0812d2a706acac6e5c1bf0e33c)

Brilliant!!

Really liked this episode. Great cinematography, great scenes, strong dialogue.

And so it begins. Winter is most definitely here.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2019, 09:59:48 PM
Brilliant!!

Really liked this episode. Great cinematography, great scenes, strong dialogue.

And so it begins. Winter is most definitely here.

A lot of important "feelings" told in this episode. Absolutely the calm before the storm.

Rough episode for Dany. Neither of her emotional encounters -- with Sansa and Jon -- ended the way she had hoped.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 21, 2019, 10:19:37 PM
Just guessing on some deaths here.

Theon full circle.  He dies protecting Bram.
Brianne knighted, everyone happy.  She dies.
A lot of Jaime tonight, telling stories, songs.  He dies.
A lot of Sam tonight.  He dies.
Grey Worm saying goodbye.  He dies. 

No Cersei tonight, probably not next week, so maybe not too many perish.  Have to take her on next and finish up.

Too much emphasis on Arya’s weapon to not be a factor.  Knight King in trouble?  My son said she will take on Bram as faceless person, but she has to kill the person to take his face, right?  Maybe she becomes a person of the dead faceless, surprising the king. But she is killing someone with that thing. 

Jon knodding to Dany at end was neat, like ok, let’s go get the dragons. 

Not exciting, but there was some serious acting going on tonight. 

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 04:50:39 AM
Just guessing on some deaths here.

Theon full circle.  He dies protecting Bram.
Brianne knighted, everyone happy.  She dies.
A lot of Jaime tonight, telling stories, songs.  He dies.
A lot of Sam tonight.  He dies.
Grey Worm saying goodbye.  He dies. 


I'll add Berrick, Edd, Podrick and Tormund to that list of expected deaths. I think one of Jamie or Brianne make it out personally. Lyanna Mormont will die and it'll force Jorah to be unexiled and take up his family seat again.  Unsure about Davos but think he's destined to somehow continue to survive.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 22, 2019, 07:42:21 AM
I love all the theories. You guys sure think a lot about this stuff!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 22, 2019, 08:15:28 AM
No context summary

(https://preview.redd.it/lleeb6k15pt21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=72c6850056036d0812d2a706acac6e5c1bf0e33c)

Well done!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 08:21:16 AM
Well done!

Wish I could take credit but reposted it from a game of thrones meme thread on reddit.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 22, 2019, 09:31:36 AM
Sorry at the length of this... I just want to make my new prediction internet permanent so I can go back after the show and brag about how right I was (or hide the thread forever if I'm totally off base).


First, my thoughts on the episode though.


I don’t think any of this is spoilery, but don’t read if you’re extremely cautious.

*******************************

As much as episode one was a reset for the season and putting the pieces in place, this one was all about connecting people who’ve long been due to connect, closure, and starting to wrap up old storylines.  Arya/Gendry, the Mormonts, Ghost showing up again (barely), Theon/Sansa, Bran/Jamie, Arya/Hound, Brienne, Podrick becoming quite the figher to name a few.  Not to mention beginning to address Jon’s parentage.   

Overall, it really was a great “calm before the storm” feeling to the entire episode.  They really all gave that sense of finality, that everyone expects to die.  I liked the little light hearted moment when Tyrion said he thought he was going to live and they all chuckled.  It was fun in the moment and after a sense of palpable dread feeling the whole time it gave me a shot of hope that some of them really will.   


I still do not think Arya kills the Night King, but she is for sure going to do something very badass.  I also think she dies a horrible death too but she’s going to be badass about her death too and welcome it like an old friend.

Also, does anyone else think the plan is kinda weak?  Theon and his men are all that’s going to stand in the way?   I think not.  There will be more to that part.   Perhaps this is where Arya will shine. 


Even deeper spoilery stuff below.  This are just my own guesses, but has minor spoilers from last nights episode:

************************************


Final rough guess at what happens… 

Big battle obviously will happen.  Theon and his men are no match for Night King a few of the others and maybe a small group of undead coming for Bran.  Arya comes in as a badass killing a bunch of the others.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Someone with a Valyrian Steel sword tries attacking the Night King, perhaps Jorah w/ Heartsbane (I guess this because they really focused on the sword when Sam gave it to him) in order to save Daenarys that is hurt after a dragon fight between her/Drogon vs Night King/Ice Dragon.  Jorah dies, the sword is taken by the Night King and kills Daenarys with it through the heart.  Danny’s soul or whatever is imbued onto the sword when Jon pulls it out of her.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Jon kills the Night King with the nValyrian steel sword.   This would fulfill several prophesies and connects a lot of clues such as Rhaegars son being the Prince that was Promised, the flaming sword of Azhor Azai (that was thrust through his wife’s heart), and the Last Hero (who was the original leader and founder of the Nights watch).   All three of those I think are the same person written about in different histories across the world.  Jon is the only one that fits the bill for all of them.

After that Jon wraps up taking the iron throne.  Jamie, who sees his true love die (Brienne, not Cercei!) will be the one to kill his sister.  Aegon Targaryen takes the throne.   Perhaps a dragon survives, but probably not… Dragons and the Night king are forever gone from the world and a new age is born.

The only problem with this is that because of prophecies from the warlocks in Quarth and other stuff, I always thought Daenarys would take the throne.  Perhaps she does indeed live and her and Jon rule together?   Seems not to be Martin's style.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 09:57:22 AM
Sorry at the length of this... I just want to make my new prediction internet permanent so I can go back after the show and brag about how right I was (or hide the thread forever if I'm totally off base).


First, my thoughts on the episode though.


I don’t think any of this is spoilery, but don’t read if you’re extremely cautious.

*******************************

As much as episode one was a reset for the season and putting the pieces in place, this one was all about connecting people who’ve long been due to connect, closure, and starting to wrap up old storylines.  Arya/Gendry, the Mormonts, Ghost showing up again (barely), Theon/Sansa, Bran/Jamie, Arya/Hound, Brienne, Podrick becoming quite the figher to name a few.  Not to mention beginning to address Jon’s parentage.   

Overall, it really was a great “calm before the storm” feeling to the entire episode.  They really all gave that sense of finality, that everyone expects to die.  I liked the little light hearted moment when Tyrion said he thought he was going to live and they all chuckled.  It was fun in the moment and after a sense of palpable dread feeling the whole time it gave me a shot of hope that some of them really will.   


I still do not think Arya kills the Night King, but she is for sure going to do something very badass.  I also think she dies a horrible death too but she’s going to be badass about her death too and welcome it like an old friend.

Also, does anyone else think the plan is kinda weak?  Theon and his men are all that’s going to stand in the way?   I think not.  There will be more to that part.   Perhaps this is where Arya will shine. 


Even deeper spoilery stuff below.  This are just my own guesses, but has minor spoilers from last nights episode:

************************************


Final rough guess at what happens… 

Big battle obviously will happen.  Theon and his men are no match for Night King a few of the others and maybe a small group of undead coming for Bran.  Arya comes in as a badass killing a bunch of the others.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Someone with a Valyrian Steel sword tries attacking the Night King, perhaps Jorah w/ Heartsbane (I guess this because they really focused on the sword when Sam gave it to him) in order to save Daenarys that is hurt after a dragon fight between her/Drogon vs Night King/Ice Dragon.  Jorah dies, the sword is taken by the Night King and kills Daenarys with it through the heart.  Danny’s soul or whatever is imbued onto the sword when Jon pulls it out of her.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Jon kills the Night King with the nValyrian steel sword.   This would fulfill several prophesies and connects a lot of clues such as Rhaegars son being the Prince that was Promised, the flaming sword of Azhor Azai (that was thrust through his wife’s heart), and the Last Hero (who was the original leader and founder of the Nights watch).   All three of those I think are the same person written about in different histories across the world.  Jon is the only one that fits the bill for all of them.

After that Jon wraps up taking the iron throne.  Jamie, who sees his true love die (Brienne, not Cercei!) will be the one to kill his sister.  Aegon Targaryen takes the throne.   Perhaps a dragon survives, but probably not… Dragons and the Night king are forever gone from the world and a new age is born.

The only problem with this is that because of prophecies from the warlocks in Quarth and other stuff, I always thought Daenarys would take the throne.  Perhaps she does indeed live and her and Jon rule together?   Seems not to be Martin's style.

I like this but adding that Beric will give his life to resurrect one of Jon, Danny, Bran. Maybe someone else but I'd bet one of them for sure.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2019, 10:53:01 AM
Sorry at the length of this... I just want to make my new prediction internet permanent so I can go back after the show and brag about how right I was (or hide the thread forever if I'm totally off base).


First, my thoughts on the episode though.


I don’t think any of this is spoilery, but don’t read if you’re extremely cautious.

*******************************

As much as episode one was a reset for the season and putting the pieces in place, this one was all about connecting people who’ve long been due to connect, closure, and starting to wrap up old storylines.  Arya/Gendry, the Mormonts, Ghost showing up again (barely), Theon/Sansa, Bran/Jamie, Arya/Hound, Brienne, Podrick becoming quite the figher to name a few.  Not to mention beginning to address Jon’s parentage.   

Overall, it really was a great “calm before the storm” feeling to the entire episode.  They really all gave that sense of finality, that everyone expects to die.  I liked the little light hearted moment when Tyrion said he thought he was going to live and they all chuckled.  It was fun in the moment and after a sense of palpable dread feeling the whole time it gave me a shot of hope that some of them really will.   


I still do not think Arya kills the Night King, but she is for sure going to do something very badass.  I also think she dies a horrible death too but she’s going to be badass about her death too and welcome it like an old friend.

Also, does anyone else think the plan is kinda weak?  Theon and his men are all that’s going to stand in the way?   I think not.  There will be more to that part.   Perhaps this is where Arya will shine. 


Even deeper spoilery stuff below.  This are just my own guesses, but has minor spoilers from last nights episode:

************************************


Final rough guess at what happens… 

Big battle obviously will happen.  Theon and his men are no match for Night King a few of the others and maybe a small group of undead coming for Bran.  Arya comes in as a badass killing a bunch of the others.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Someone with a Valyrian Steel sword tries attacking the Night King, perhaps Jorah w/ Heartsbane (I guess this because they really focused on the sword when Sam gave it to him) in order to save Daenarys that is hurt after a dragon fight between her/Drogon vs Night King/Ice Dragon.  Jorah dies, the sword is taken by the Night King and kills Daenarys with it through the heart.  Danny’s soul or whatever is imbued onto the sword when Jon pulls it out of her.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Jon kills the Night King with the nValyrian steel sword.   This would fulfill several prophesies and connects a lot of clues such as Rhaegars son being the Prince that was Promised, the flaming sword of Azhor Azai (that was thrust through his wife’s heart), and the Last Hero (who was the original leader and founder of the Nights watch).   All three of those I think are the same person written about in different histories across the world.  Jon is the only one that fits the bill for all of them.

After that Jon wraps up taking the iron throne.  Jamie, who sees his true love die (Brienne, not Cercei!) will be the one to kill his sister.  Aegon Targaryen takes the throne.   Perhaps a dragon survives, but probably not… Dragons and the Night king are forever gone from the world and a new age is born.

The only problem with this is that because of prophecies from the warlocks in Quarth and other stuff, I always thought Daenarys would take the throne.  Perhaps she does indeed live and her and Jon rule together?   Seems not to be Martin's style.

Night King isn't in Winterfell.  He rode the ice dragon south to King's Landing to create a second army.  GRRM loves the LOTR series, and my guess is that the dead Starks in the Winterfell crypt have a large part to play in episode 3...  You know, the dead coming back to life to save the day... but GRRM is a tad different... they may not save the day, but may indeed make it much much worse for the living.  Life wins the Battle of Winterfell with most of the main characters surviving... only to find out that there is a new army marching North from KL to engage the worn out and much smaller remnants of the Army of Life.  Massive bloodbath ensues.  Two living dragons fighting the undead dragon... Samwell Tarley is revealed to be The Prince That Was Promised, and is forced to stab Gilly in the stomach using Heartsbane.  Thus, he will fulfill the prophecy and become Azor Ahai and forge Lightbringer and push back the Others.  Bran will likely agree to go North with the Night's King... who we will find out isn't just some mindless monster bent on destruction of the living.  Additionally, there is a theory floating out there that Samwell was switched at birth with Dany's baby brother Aegon Targaryen, and that Randyll Tarley's first born was actually the one murdered by the hound.  So, this means that Sam is a secret Targaryen and Dany's true brother... Though I'm not sure this makes a ton of sense for the show since Sam most certainly bares zero resemblance to the known Targaryens.

There are a ton of parallels and cyclical history being shown in the last two episodes.  Gendry and Arya are essentially Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark.  Which also leads me to the point that Gendry will become the leader of House Baratheon when the fight is over... Just like the bastard Orys Baratheon became the first of house Baratheon after Aegon's Conquest and the destruction of house Durrandon.  Brienne was knighted as a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, just like her probably ancestor Ser Duncan the Tall of the Dunk and Egg novellas.  There are more parallels, but I can't remember them off the top of my head at the moment.

Just some tinfoily stuff.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 11:07:08 AM
To me there's still two or three maybe even four armies out there to capture Kings landing.

Main Greyjoy army
Tully army
Melisandre and her massive group
Howland Reed's army.

The last one may not come into play but I think he does because Danny said nobody around can vouch for Jon's lineage and she's wrong.

If the living prevail I expect those armies to be the next round of reinforcements to beat Cersei
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 22, 2019, 11:22:19 AM
Night King isn't in Winterfell.  He rode the ice dragon south to King's Landing to create a second army.  GRRM loves the LOTR series, and my guess is that the dead Starks in the Winterfell crypt have a large part to play in episode 3...  You know, the dead coming back to life to save the day... but GRRM is a tad different... they may not save the day, but may indeed make it much much worse for the living.

Yup there is going to be a lot to this - the books have a lot more weird middle ground between living and dead (but not Wights) that the series hints at but never really explores. Benjen Stark's half-dead ass riding around the North is a good example. In the books, Catelyn Stark is also in an undead limbo, but definitely not an evil, Wight sort of undead. 

Bran will likely agree to go North with the Night's King... who we will find out isn't just some mindless monster bent on destruction of the living. 

100x (hopefully) this. I mentioned it after last week's episode, but I think there is going to be a lot more to the Wights than just mindless undead zombies with completely unambiguous motivations. Their origin story as created by the Children, their ability to have negotiated with Craster, the spiral as sort of a house sigil - I think that they will seem a little more "human" by the end of the season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 22, 2019, 12:34:31 PM
To me there's still two or three maybe even four armies out there to capture Kings landing.

Main Greyjoy army
Fully army
Melisandre and her massive group
Howland Reed's army.

The last one may not come into play but I think he does because Danny said nobody around can vouch for Jon's lineage and she's wrong.

If the living prevail I expect those armies to be the next round of reinforcements to beat Cersei

I forgot all about Melisandre!    She's going to come into play obviously, I just don't know how.

I've discounted an older Howland Reed showing up.  For awhile I thought he'd come out to prove Jon is who is he, but the way Jon and Daenarys left it this week with "I know it to be true" made me feel like that wasn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 01:03:42 PM
I forgot all about Melisandre!    She's going to come into play obviously, I just don't know how.

I've discounted an older Howland Reed showing up.  For awhile I thought he'd come out to prove Jon is who is he, but the way Jon and Daenarys left it this week with "I know it to be true" made me feel like that wasn't going to happen.

Well isn't there supposedly some army in Volantis of Lord of Light worshippers? My thought was they'd be brought back with her, or at least the other two red priestesses.

Fair point about Howland Reed, I haven't given up hope he comes in but in the least I hope it's more than just "I know it to be true" and that Bran at least has a one liner to prove to Danny that he sees this stuff for real.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 22, 2019, 01:05:59 PM
Watched the episode early via a European leak on amazon.

Definitely was uncomfortable watching a certain scene when I was watching season 1, with everyone a lot younger just the other day...


Im doing the same thing. My feelings were confusing.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 22, 2019, 01:16:51 PM
Watched the episode early via a European leak on amazon.

Definitely was uncomfortable watching a certain scene when I was watching season 1, with everyone a lot younger just the other day...

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/2019/04/22/game-of-thrones-fans-google-arya-stark-maisie-williams-age/
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 22, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
If people were uncomfortable with that, it seems at least we've made progress from the bad old internet days when there was a count down clock to when the Olsen twins turned 18.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 22, 2019, 04:36:17 PM
One other question, as a non-watcher but a very aware pop culture person.....I know Maise Williams is 22, but what age is her character supposed to be? That makes a big difference to me whether someone should freak out or not.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 22, 2019, 04:46:51 PM
One other question, as a non-watcher but a very aware pop culture person.....I know Maise Williams is 22, but what age is her character supposed to be? That makes a big difference to me whether someone should freak out or not.

It isn't exactly clear. I don't think 22, but late teens-ish? They never outright say.

I was wierded out by it. I actually had to go look up her age. I would have thought she was 16 or 17.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2019, 04:49:01 PM
Meh, a strong female character decided she wasn't going to die a virgin.   Over thinking this.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 22, 2019, 04:54:20 PM
One other question, as a non-watcher but a very aware pop culture person.....I know Maise Williams is 22, but what age is her character supposed to be? That makes a big difference to me whether someone should freak out or not.

18, HBO tweeted out a subtle reminder a few hours beforehand. stating "by the time you're 18 in westeros you should have..." and the list was all things Arya had done.

Meh, a stron female character decided she wasn't going to die a virgin.   Over thinking this.

Not overthinking, as a character I'd be saying the same thing, just weird as a viewer when two days before I was rewatching the first episode. It was a very quick uncomfortable jump from 11yr old her to 22yr old her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 22, 2019, 07:16:06 PM
Sorry at the length of this... I just want to make my new prediction internet permanent so I can go back after the show and brag about how right I was (or hide the thread forever if I'm totally off base).


First, my thoughts on the episode though.


I don’t think any of this is spoilery, but don’t read if you’re extremely cautious.

*******************************

As much as episode one was a reset for the season and putting the pieces in place, this one was all about connecting people who’ve long been due to connect, closure, and starting to wrap up old storylines.  Arya/Gendry, the Mormonts, Ghost showing up again (barely), Theon/Sansa, Bran/Jamie, Arya/Hound, Brienne, Podrick becoming quite the figher to name a few.  Not to mention beginning to address Jon’s parentage.   

Overall, it really was a great “calm before the storm” feeling to the entire episode.  They really all gave that sense of finality, that everyone expects to die.  I liked the little light hearted moment when Tyrion said he thought he was going to live and they all chuckled.  It was fun in the moment and after a sense of palpable dread feeling the whole time it gave me a shot of hope that some of them really will.   


I still do not think Arya kills the Night King, but she is for sure going to do something very badass.  I also think she dies a horrible death too but she’s going to be badass about her death too and welcome it like an old friend.

Also, does anyone else think the plan is kinda weak?  Theon and his men are all that’s going to stand in the way?   I think not.  There will be more to that part.   Perhaps this is where Arya will shine. 


Even deeper spoilery stuff below.  This are just my own guesses, but has minor spoilers from last nights episode:

************************************


Final rough guess at what happens… 

Big battle obviously will happen.  Theon and his men are no match for Night King a few of the others and maybe a small group of undead coming for Bran.  Arya comes in as a badass killing a bunch of the others.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Someone with a Valyrian Steel sword tries attacking the Night King, perhaps Jorah w/ Heartsbane (I guess this because they really focused on the sword when Sam gave it to him) in order to save Daenarys that is hurt after a dragon fight between her/Drogon vs Night King/Ice Dragon.  Jorah dies, the sword is taken by the Night King and kills Daenarys with it through the heart.  Danny’s soul or whatever is imbued onto the sword when Jon pulls it out of her.

Arya kills the ice dragon.   Night King kills her.

Jon kills the Night King with the nValyrian steel sword.   This would fulfill several prophesies and connects a lot of clues such as Rhaegars son being the Prince that was Promised, the flaming sword of Azhor Azai (that was thrust through his wife’s heart), and the Last Hero (who was the original leader and founder of the Nights watch).   All three of those I think are the same person written about in different histories across the world.  Jon is the only one that fits the bill for all of them.

After that Jon wraps up taking the iron throne.  Jamie, who sees his true love die (Brienne, not Cercei!) will be the one to kill his sister.  Aegon Targaryen takes the throne.   Perhaps a dragon survives, but probably not… Dragons and the Night king are forever gone from the world and a new age is born.

The only problem with this is that because of prophecies from the warlocks in Quarth and other stuff, I always thought Daenarys would take the throne.  Perhaps she does indeed live and her and Jon rule together?   Seems not to be Martin's style.

I think it is more likely Jon dies than Dany. He will give up his throne for her again.

I think Jorah, the Hound, Gendry, and Arya all live.

Now random guess of a scene. The Night King is approaching Bran to kill him. Theon shoots an arrow throw his heart from behind (just like he save Bran in season 1 from the willings). But Dragonglass can't kill the Night King (he was made with Dragonglass through the heart).

Theon is killed shortly thereafter, with people looking on in shock.

Lightbringer will be needed to kill him.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 22, 2019, 09:34:14 PM
Meh, a strong female character decided she wasn't going to die a virgin.   Over thinking this.

That's where I am on it, too.

Arya is a total bad-arse. I didn't think to be even a little uncomfortable about the scene. It made sense to me, especially after the way she flirted with Gendry the previous week.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 22, 2019, 09:52:35 PM
That's where I am on it, too.

Arya is a total bad-arse. I didn't think to be even a little uncomfortable about the scene. It made sense to me, especially after the way she flirted with Gendry the previous week.

And the line "I'm not the red woman, take your own damn pants off" was 100% bad-arse and in character.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 22, 2019, 11:11:41 PM
And the line "I'm not the red woman, take your own damn pants off" was 100% bad-arse and in character.

Literally laughed out loud.

If Arya isn't my favorite GOT character, she's in my top 3!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on April 23, 2019, 11:48:12 AM
Literally laughed out loud.

If Arya isn't my favorite GOT character, she's in my top 3!

Let's hear who the top 3 are!  Personally I would say Jaime Lannister is my favorite.  His character and personality have changed so much from season 1 it's hard to believe it's the same person.  I think he is one of the truly good people left and his series of unfortunate events throughout his captivity probably molded him this way.  Wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in killing Cersei.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 23, 2019, 11:55:46 AM
Let's hear who the top 3 are!  Personally I would say Jaime Lannister is my favorite.  His character and personality have changed so much from season 1 it's hard to believe it's the same person.  I think he is one of the truly good people left and his series of unfortunate events throughout his captivity probably molded him this way.  Wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in killing Cersei.

Never thought about who my top 3 are. But when I read this the there that came to mind were.

Arya
Brienne
Tyrion

Sad that it is a legitimate chance all three die in the next episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 23, 2019, 12:16:55 PM
Never thought about who my top 3 are. But when I read this the there that came to mind were.

Arya
Brienne
Tyrion

Sad that it is a legitimate chance all three die in the next episode.

I'd be shocked if Tyrion and Arya die in the upcoming episode.  But knowing GoT it's a definite possibility. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 23, 2019, 12:17:23 PM
Let's hear who the top 3 are!  Personally I would say Jaime Lannister is my favorite.  His character and personality have changed so much from season 1 it's hard to believe it's the same person.  I think he is one of the truly good people left and his series of unfortunate events throughout his captivity probably molded him this way.  Wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in killing Cersei.

Well he certainly can't have more than one hand in it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: BM1090 on April 23, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
Anyone think Tyrion betrays Dany/Jon and becomes an antagonist? That has been my running theory for about 2 seasons but it might be too late to pull that off.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 23, 2019, 01:05:54 PM
Anyone think Tyrion betrays Dany/Jon and becomes an antagonist? That has been my running theory for about 2 seasons but it might be too late to pull that off.

I think it'll be another accident. They seem to be setting up this whole one mistake after another thing. Doubt he's truly clever enough anymore to betray them on purpose
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on April 23, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
Well he certainly can't have more than one hand in it.

Lol well played.  I guess you're right.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 23, 2019, 02:33:03 PM
Anyone think Tyrion betrays Dany/Jon and becomes an antagonist? That has been my running theory for about 2 seasons but it might be too late to pull that off.

Naw.  Higher chance that Dany and Jon die in the fight and Tyrion and Sam refound the Seven Kingdoms as a Democratic Republic.

lmao
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 23, 2019, 04:03:14 PM
Let's hear who the top 3 are!  Personally I would say Jaime Lannister is my favorite.  His character and personality have changed so much from season 1 it's hard to believe it's the same person.  I think he is one of the truly good people left and his series of unfortunate events throughout his captivity probably molded him this way.  Wouldn't be surprised if he has a hand in killing Cersei.

Well, that's tough. Different categories, perhaps.

I mean, I LOVE the evilness of the likes of Ramsay, Cersei and Walder Frey, but I don't "love" them, if you know what I mean.

Arya and Brienne are two characters I both like and admire, and both Margaery and her grandmother were a lot of fun (and well-acted) for most of their time on the screen. I have enjoyed every single exchange between Tyrion and Varys. Like them, Bronn has been fortunate to receive so many good, funny lines from the writers. And it's hard not to like Jaime, and I've really enjoyed him breaking from Cersei. Plenty of others, too.

If I had to answer the question: "Which 3 characters whose time on screen have interested you the most?" ... I think it would be Arya, Cersei and Ramsay.

A lot of right answers, though, and few if any wrong ones! (I admit Bran bugs me, though.)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 23, 2019, 04:36:53 PM
I'm digging this theory:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/?depth=2
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 23, 2019, 07:21:26 PM
I'm digging this theory:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/?depth=2

Isn't there a fleet in King's Landing and can't these zombies not go on/in water? Tactically, you'd want to gain an army AND a fleet wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 23, 2019, 07:28:27 PM
I still think the final battle happens at the Vale. In season 1 they make a huge deal of it being impregnable
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 23, 2019, 10:50:40 PM
I still think the final battle happens at the Vale. In season 1 they make a huge deal of it being impregnable

It may be impregnable, but its also remote.  One way in, one way out.  Can't take a sustained siege... and what lord hides in his keep while his lands are being destroyed?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 24, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
Another theory out there:

But wait, there is one more piece to the prophecy in George R.R. Martin's books that did not make it into that scene in the show. The witch also tells Cersei: "And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." "Valonqar" means "little brother" in Valyrian — and if we are taking that literally, that means Tyrion . . . or Jaime, who is her twin, but could technically be her "little brother" since he was born after her. (That really makes the incest somehow even grosser, right?) But it's also been theorized that her killer could be someone else entirely.

So, there's still a piece of the prophecy the witch predicted that we can look forward to: Cersei's murder! 

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainme...rones-41057434
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 24, 2019, 08:59:26 AM
Another theory out there:

But wait, there is one more piece to the prophecy in George R.R. Martin's books that did not make it into that scene in the show. The witch also tells Cersei: "And when your tears have drowned you, the Valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." "Valonqar" means "little brother" in Valyrian — and if we are taking that literally, that means Tyrion . . . or Jaime, who is her twin, but could technically be her "little brother" since he was born after her. (That really makes the incest somehow even grosser, right?) But it's also been theorized that her killer could be someone else entirely.

So, there's still a piece of the prophecy the witch predicted that we can look forward to: Cersei's murder! 

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainme...rones-41057434

Pretty Old but still a good one. it's also made a lot of people convinced that Arya will wear Jamie's face to kill her completing her list and the prophecy. I could see it if they were still on the books but I think they'll go more tv extravagant 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 24, 2019, 01:03:13 PM
My slightly wild theories of GRRM's story, particularly the larger meaning and endgame (not who dies/who lives). An important thing is that I'm not sure the book and the show will have remotely the same final end game results/emphasis. Much of this stems from ideas in the books, and the fact that GRRM said he wanted to break the traditional fantasy genre of Good vs. Evil (Living vs. Dead).

1. The meaning of the spiral is time. The world of Westeros is stuck in a spiral always wrapping back onto itself. So the people, and the Night King, are destined to be stuck into the same death spiral unable to escape. That is why the Night King and the 3-eyed raven can see both the past and future, they spiral back onto themselves.

2. The Night King's goal is to destroy the spiral, so that the world can be free and new. Similar goal to Dany's of destroying the Wheel, so that Westeros can be free.

3. Killing the 3-eyed raven is not to erase man, or its memories. It is simply to break the loop, so that the Night King can finally escape.

4. This relates back to Jenny's song, which is about a person unable to let go of their past, their ghosts, and instead dances with them for all eternity, because she never wants to leave. In order for rebirth to occur, we have to let go of the past and begin anew. The 3-eyed raven is stuck on the past, and all of mankind then is never free.

So it is a battle between life and death, but with the side aspect of rebirth and growth requires death. Just like the cycle of seasons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 24, 2019, 09:39:38 PM
My slightly wild theories of GRRM's story, particularly the larger meaning and endgame (not who dies/who lives). An important thing is that I'm not sure the book and the show will have remotely the same final end game results/emphasis. Much of this stems from ideas in the books, and the fact that GRRM said he wanted to break the traditional fantasy genre of Good vs. Evil (Living vs. Dead).

1. The meaning of the spiral is time. The world of Westeros is stuck in a spiral always wrapping back onto itself. So the people, and the Night King, are destined to be stuck into the same death spiral unable to escape. That is why the Night King and the 3-eyed raven can see both the past and future, they spiral back onto themselves.

2. The Night King's goal is to destroy the spiral, so that the world can be free and new. Similar goal to Dany's of destroying the Wheel, so that Westeros can be free.

3. Killing the 3-eyed raven is not to erase man, or its memories. It is simply to break the loop, so that the Night King can finally escape.

4. This relates back to Jenny's song, which is about a person unable to let go of their past, their ghosts, and instead dances with them for all eternity, because she never wants to leave. In order for rebirth to occur, we have to let go of the past and begin anew. The 3-eyed raven is stuck on the past, and all of mankind then is never free.

So it is a battle between life and death, but with the side aspect of rebirth and growth requires death. Just like the cycle of seasons.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/byYvc9meProt2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 24, 2019, 09:51:00 PM
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/byYvc9meProt2/giphy.gif)

Can't believe you found a picture of me with my tinfoil hat.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 25, 2019, 08:22:29 AM
My slightly wild theories of GRRM's story, particularly the larger meaning and endgame (not who dies/who lives). An important thing is that I'm not sure the book and the show will have remotely the same final end game results/emphasis. Much of this stems from ideas in the books, and the fact that GRRM said he wanted to break the traditional fantasy genre of Good vs. Evil (Living vs. Dead).

1. The meaning of the spiral is time. The world of Westeros is stuck in a spiral always wrapping back onto itself. So the people, and the Night King, are destined to be stuck into the same death spiral unable to escape. That is why the Night King and the 3-eyed raven can see both the past and future, they spiral back onto themselves.

2. The Night King's goal is to destroy the spiral, so that the world can be free and new. Similar goal to Dany's of destroying the Wheel, so that Westeros can be free.

3. Killing the 3-eyed raven is not to erase man, or its memories. It is simply to break the loop, so that the Night King can finally escape.

4. This relates back to Jenny's song, which is about a person unable to let go of their past, their ghosts, and instead dances with them for all eternity, because she never wants to leave. In order for rebirth to occur, we have to let go of the past and begin anew. The 3-eyed raven is stuck on the past, and all of mankind then is never free.

So it is a battle between life and death, but with the side aspect of rebirth and growth requires death. Just like the cycle of seasons.

Unless George Martin let a little bit too much Wheel of Time series influence his writing, I just don't see this happening.

That said, sounds like you might enjoy the Wheel of Time series!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 25, 2019, 10:15:27 PM
Unless George Martin let a little bit too much Wheel of Time series influence his writing, I just don't see this happening.

That said, sounds like you might enjoy the Wheel of Time series!

I had never heard of it before but will have to check it out. Doing a little research, it seems like something I would enjoy. 

A little more research indicates that Robert Jordan (author of Wheel of Time), was close friends with GRRM, and also that GRRM was significantly influenced by Jordan and Wheel of Time.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 25, 2019, 11:48:23 PM
Forgetful's theory also sounds very similar to the plot of the Mass Effect Video Game Trilogy.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jay Bee on April 26, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
I've never seen this show and probably never will, but I did see some chick post on instagram about it this week and that was pretty cool. #HopHopHop
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 28, 2019, 08:34:47 PM



Not today.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:27:24 PM
We'll, that is an ass kicking.   I am going  have to go to Endgame just to cheer up.


Not today.

Hmm....not sure about this episode. 

It was so dark and difficult to see what was going on much of the time.  Seemed a little to easy there at the end after the complete ass kicking for 99% of the episode.

I will be curious to see what the fans think.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 28, 2019, 09:29:31 PM
I understand why it took 5 weeks to shoot.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 28, 2019, 09:40:10 PM
Was great when the Dothrakis went in and only the horses returned.  Outstanding.  After that, cinematography was way, way, too dark.  They made the lens as if it was frozen with arrival of Night King force and distracted from the battle scenes.  Especially the dragons going after each other, I was clueless of what was going on. 

Least I got it right Arya gets the King.  Was she hiding in the tree? 

Limited deaths of characters, sort of surprised.

Both dragons live? 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
Was great when the Dothrakis went in and only the horses returned.  Outstanding.  After that, cinematography was way, way, too dark.  They made the lens as if it was frozen with arrival of Night King force and distracted from the battle scenes.  Especially the dragons going after each other, I was clueless of what was going on. 

Least I got it right Arya gets the King.  Was she hiding in the tree? 

Limited deaths of characters, sort of surprised.

Both dragons live?

Yeah, HBO getting ripped pretty good for the cinematography right now on social media.  Not sure who died, couldn’t see a lot of it.  May have to rewatch.

Great question on the dragons. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: swoopem on April 28, 2019, 09:48:05 PM
In the preview for next week it looked like there were 2 dragons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 28, 2019, 09:49:24 PM
https://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-too-dark-battle-of-winterfell/

That didn't take long.  Internet going absolutely berserk. 

Yes the preview, which I could actually see, showed two. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 28, 2019, 09:56:02 PM
Who died:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-battle-winterfell-explained-who-died-1205429

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 09:56:53 PM
Yeah, HBO getting ripped pretty good for the cinematography right now on social media.  Not sure who died, couldn’t see a lot of it.  May have to rewatch.

Great question on the dragons.

Rewatched the ending. Clear who is still alive and who is dead (except 1, I think I know, but not certain). Surprised how many got out of it safely. The cinematography was too dark. Would have been fine in a theatre, but most peoples home TVs would have difficulty contrast wise to make it clear  what is going on.

Overall I thought it was a pretty great episode. I think it went with one of the simpler overall endings (regarding the Night King). I don't think the books simplify it that much, but for the show it was one of the more consistent endings.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2019, 10:09:05 PM
Yep, it was dark, but that was OK with me. It magnified the terror, the predicament, the mood. Even in the few scenes where I couldn't quite tell who was who, it didn't change the feeling I had watching it. Literally, on the edge of my seat.

I thought Arya would kill the Night King with her weapon, and was wrong about that ... but glad I got the "who" right. (I immediately rewound it to get another look at exactly how it happened. He got her to drop the knife, but she caught it with her other hand and stabbed that m-f'er!) One could say, "Oh, wasn't that convenient?" But we all knew that the Night King wasn't going to win. I mean, there are still 3 episodes left! I thought Arya doing it was pretty cool.

I was happy to see many of the more crazy theories espoused all over the interwebs not come true. I also was happy to see most of my favorite characters live on. And, as my wife noted, women ended being the biggest heroes -- Arya, Lady Mormont and, surprisingly for me, Melisandre.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it all ends against Cersei's army. Maybe Arya gets her, too!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 10:16:39 PM
Yep, it was dark, but that was OK with me. It magnified the terror, the predicament, the mood. Even in the few scenes where I couldn't quite tell who was who, it didn't change the feeling I had watching it. Literally, on the edge of my seat.

I thought Arya would kill the Night King with her weapon, and was wrong about that ... but glad I got the "who" right. (I immediately rewound it to get another look at exactly how it happened. He got her to drop the knife, but she caught it with her other hand and stabbed that m-f'er!) One could say, "Oh, wasn't that convenient?" But we all knew that the Night King wasn't going to win. I mean, there are still 3 episodes left! I thought Arya doing it was pretty cool.

I was happy to see many of the more crazy theories espoused all over the interwebs not come true. I also was happy to see most of my favorite characters live on. And, as my wife noted, women ended being the biggest heroes -- Arya, Lady Mormont and, surprisingly for me, Melisandre.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it all ends against Cersei's army. Maybe Arya gets her, too!

Agreed on nearly all fronts. The only thing is that the ending for the Night King, lacked meaning. We don't know his real goal, who created him, etc.

I think there are two reasons for that. The explanations are rooted in magic, which is ample in the books, but the show has shied away from a lot of the magic, and prophecy. It wouldn't make sense to introduce a lot of the magic/prophecy that is present in the books, at this last minute and still have it make sense.

Also, one of the prequel series rumored to be being planned by HBO revolves around the age of heroes, the Starks and the creation of the Night King.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on April 28, 2019, 10:20:01 PM
Bran: I am going to go now

Theon : Where? 

That was just nuts.  The look on Theon’s face as he single handling the attack, protecting him.  Most of us would have said, WTF are you talking about.

On to Knights Landing now.  Two dragons, not looking good for Cersai.  Who kills her, Tyrion, Jamie or Arya, one of them for sure.  Tyrion killed father, so I go with Jamie. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 28, 2019, 10:23:51 PM
Agreed on nearly all fronts. The only thing is that the ending for the Night King, lacked meaning. We don't know his real goal, who created him, etc.

I think there are two reasons for that. The explanations are rooted in magic, which is ample in the books, but the show has shied away from a lot of the magic, and prophecy. It wouldn't make sense to introduce a lot of the magic/prophecy that is present in the books, at this last minute and still have it make sense.

Also, one of the prequel series rumored to be being planned by HBO revolves around the age of heroes, the Starks and the creation of the Night King.

The show runners would almost certainly have to nod at a lot of what you’re saying. But holy crap was this inexplicably bad storytelling.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 28, 2019, 10:31:10 PM
But holy crap was this inexplicably bad storytelling.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because while I was watching it I wasn't thinking, "This is inexplicably bad storytelling."

Also, one of the prequel series rumored to be being planned by HBO revolves around the age of heroes, the Starks and the creation of the Night King.

I'm pretty sure I'll watch it!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 11:01:05 PM
I'm happy the directors had Arya kill the Night King.

Story arc wise it made the most sense. She was supposed to be a mythical battle warrior (Nymeria), spent her life training to kill people she came across that perceivably wronged her (the Red Witch, the Hound, Beric), those people were part of her training, and saved her/directed her towards her real mission.

The Catspaw dagger, Chekov's gun, that should be instrumental to the entire show. Meant to kill Bran, at the order of Littlefinger...saves Bran/kills Littlefinger.

I had feared the writers would go with the generic, Jon vs. Night King, script. Last season seemed to always go the generic route.

Glad they went with a route that was really set in motion in season 1.

Personally, I would have preferred two seasons. Season 8, unveiling the mystery of the Night King and ending with this battle (episode 9) and setting up season 9, the battle for the throne.

Season 9, final battle for Westeros.

I think that timeline would have allowed more evolution of the Night King story, and introduction of myth, magic, and legends. That all will end up in the spinoff.

That said, a lot of that is because of the books. The show has taken a different arc. Very good arc, and thoroughly enjoy it. I just have to remember to enjoy each in their own, and isolate them from each other.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 28, 2019, 11:06:53 PM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: BM1090 on April 28, 2019, 11:21:01 PM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy.

The easy answer is they are controlled by the night king and his attention was focused solely on Bran. But that was my biggest issue with the episode as well.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mr.MUskie on April 28, 2019, 11:21:14 PM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy.

Night King security like airport security.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 28, 2019, 11:28:44 PM
Agreed on nearly all fronts. The only thing is that the ending for the Night King, lacked meaning. We don't know his real goal, who created him, etc.



According to an earlier episode, the Night King was created by the Children of the Forest for protection from the arrival of the first men to Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2019, 11:29:17 PM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy.

100%

This episode missed the mark on so much.  Sure, the battle was epic, and the pacing was good, and the music was the best part... but the actual story?  Cheap, lame, lazy writing.  I don't need people to die to make it good, but I also enjoy this show because it doesn't rely on hollywood tropes.  But holy christ was this just the opposite.  Deus Ex Machina, Mothership, and fan service abounded.  So many story lines left to dangle, no reason to wrap many of them up... so many plot holes... ugh.

I just hope that GRRM lives long enough to finish the books because he certainly has a road map on how NOT to do it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mr.MUskie on April 28, 2019, 11:30:40 PM
According to an earlier episode, the Night King was created by the Children of the Forest for protection from the arrival of the first men to Westeros.

+1
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 11:32:51 PM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy.

A couple different ways. She knows her way around the castle. The books have Bran in the first couple chapters explaining how one that can climb can get anywhere without anyone knowing. Arya also knows the castle that well.

Now in the final scene. It's actually kind of simple. GRRM emphasizes that the characters always make the wrong decision. The Night King, being prideful, needed to be the one to kill Bran. He had all his focus on Bran, so they had to focus there too (he controls them). His pride, led to his death. He could have just let the wights kill them all...but he had to be the one to do it, and it cost him his life.

Now in the end. I don't think any of this reflects the real Night King story. I think this will end up being a "the victors get to tell the story" type of thing. We will find out that the real story regarding the Night King and his goals are much much different. But we have to watch a whole new HBO series to find all that out.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2019, 11:40:31 PM
A couple different ways. She knows her way around the castle. The books have Bran in the first couple chapters explaining how one that can climb can get anywhere without anyone knowing. Arya also knows the castle that well.

Now in the final scene. It's actually kind of simple. GRRM emphasizes that the characters always make the wrong decision. The Night King, being prideful, needed to be the one to kill Bran. He had all his focus on Bran, so they had to focus there too (he controls them). His pride, led to his death. He could have just let the wights kill them all...but he had to be the one to do it, and it cost him his life.

Now in the end. I don't think any of this reflects the real Night King story. I think this will end up being a "the victors get to tell the story" type of thing. We will find out that the real story regarding the Night King and his goals are much much different. But we have to watch a whole new HBO series to find all that out.

In the books, there is no Night King as we know him in the show.  He was a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch from thousands of years ago.  He wasn't the first White Walker either.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 11:43:27 PM
In the books, there is no Night King as we know him in the show.  He was a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch from thousands of years ago.  He wasn't the first White Walker either.

Agreed. I think the prequel will link the two ideas. Where the Night King, was the first Lord Commander, and his 12 White Walkers, the 12 Lord Commanders before him.

If you'll notice they always have 12 White Walkers. The Night King in the books, was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's watch.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 28, 2019, 11:45:09 PM
Agreed. I think the prequel will link the two ideas. Where the Night King, was the first Lord Commander, and his 12 White Walkers, the 12 Lord Commanders before him.

If you'll notice they always have 12 White Walkers. The Night King in the books, was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's watch.

Perhaps.  I was pretty sure the prequel dealt with Robert's Rebellion though... I know there are more *planned*, but isn't this the first one being made?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 28, 2019, 11:52:29 PM
Perhaps.  I was pretty sure the prequel dealt with Robert's Rebellion though... I know there are more *planned*, but isn't this the first one being made?

This was released by HBO awhile back as the synopsis for the first spinoff.

"Taking place thousands of years before the events of Game of Thrones, the series chronicles the world's descent from the golden Age of Heroes into its darkest hour. And only one thing is for sure: from the horrifying secrets of Westeros' history to the true origin of the white walkers, the mysteries of the East to the Starks of legend … it's not the story we think we know.”
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 29, 2019, 01:31:13 AM
Battle was visually pleasing. Darkness didn't bother me at all, added to it.

Would have liked more done with the crypts. So much potential there and we barely saw anything.

Lyanna Mormont is a bad ass.

Really surprised there wasn't more Jorah. They made a big deal out of him getting Heartsbane last episode and it didn't seem significant.

Liked that the knife meant kill Bran saved him, but other than that, highly disappointing way to end the Night King. Little drama, Arya flies out of nowhere, and we get zero answers about the why behind the White Walkers.

I think the main thing I struggle with is that the show has repeatedly emphasized that the war with the dead was the "real war." To have it end so quickly with three episodes to go goes against that emphasis.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 01:37:32 AM
it was good but it's definitely become another generic hollywood show. There should've been a lot more deaths in the episode. It was dark, I had to brighten my screen to watch but I get the realistic sense they were going for. Getting annoyed that they promised us all this direworlf action and we've so far seen two split second scenes. Also disappointed that not a single White Walker fought in the battle dispite having all the valyrian steel swords in one place to set those battles up.

Didn't mind the Arya killing the NK but sort've annoyed that they built up the whole lightbringer prophecy with stannis and just tossed it out the window for the actual battle. And on that topic why did Melissandre even head to Volantis? No Fiery Hand, not even the other two casted red priestesses?

Last complaint, the NK is supposed to be unbelievably badass, but we saw him move to fight once in the entire series. All his actions are as follows
1) Touches baby's forehead
2) Raises arms
3) Throws spear
4) Falls off dragon
5) Raises arms
6) Badass killing of Theon
7) Catch Arya

Just sort of underwhelming, for all we know now the NK was never a real threat himself beyond magic.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2019, 06:11:52 AM
Nevertheless, she persisted. 


   That is how the night king dies?  Arya joking?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 29, 2019, 07:37:40 AM
Good thread

https://twitter.com/brewcity77/status/1122702099689684994?s=19
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2019, 07:45:41 AM
So a few nice circular plot points that I noticed from last night...

1) Theon Greyjoy: Raised in Winterfell, left with the intent of finding aid for the Starks in their coming war. Instead, he returned to take the castle from Bran, left again, then returned to defend Bran & Winterfell from the Night King.

2) Jorah Mormont: Once he was sentenced & exiled by Ned Stark. That was the same Ned Stark that tried to talk Robert Baratheon out of killing Daenerys Targaryean. Mormont returns to Westeros, and specifically to Winterfell, then dies protecting Daenerys, as Ned tried to do, in Ned's home.

3) Sandor Clegane, "The Hound": Scarred by fire, once froze up at the Battle King's Landing. This time, when he sees Arya facing the thing that Clegane fears, he steps up to save the girl that once robbed him and left him for dead.

4) Melisandre: She told us she would die in Westeros. In the final battle for Light, she was the one to reveal Arya as Azor Ahai reborn by asking "what do we say to death?", bringing full circle what Syrio Forel, who was from Essos like Melisandre, said to Arya in S1. Then, as promised, Melisandre died.

5) Littlefinger's Dagger: The Valyrian Steel dagger that was once intended to kill Bran Stark in S1 was used to save him. Instead of killing a Stark, it was wielded by a Stark to kill the Night King. The final lesson from Lord Baelish.

6) Arya Stark: The girl from Winterfell traveled to Essos to train, where the Lord of Light is worshiped. Then she fulfilled the Azor Ahai prophecy while coming home. Not only that, but to start the show, Bran was supposed to be a knight and Arya was supposed to grow to be a lady. Those tables turned at the end of the Battle of Winterfell as Arya was the warrior that protected Bran.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2019, 08:03:25 AM
So a few nice circular plot points that I noticed from last night...

1) Theon Greyjoy: Raised in Winterfell, left with the intent of finding aid for the Starks in their coming war. Instead, he returned to take the castle from Bran, left again, then returned to defend Bran & Winterfell from the Night King.

2) Jorah Mormont: Once he was sentenced & exiled by Ned Stark. That was the same Ned Stark that tried to talk Robert Baratheon out of killing Daenerys Targaryean. Mormont returns to Westeros, and specifically to Winterfell, then dies protecting Daenerys, as Ned tried to do, in Ned's home.

3) Sandor Clegane, "The Hound": Scarred by fire, once froze up at the Battle King's Landing. This time, when he sees Arya facing the thing that Clegane fears, he steps up to save the girl that once robbed him and left him for dead.

4) Melisandre: She told us she would die in Westeros. In the final battle for Light, she was the one to reveal Arya as Azor Ahai reborn by asking "what do we say to death?", bringing full circle what Syrio Forel, who was from Essos like Melisandre, said to Arya in S1. Then, as promised, Melisandre died.

5) Littlefinger's Dagger: The Valyrian Steel dagger that was once intended to kill Bran Stark in S1 was used to save him. Instead of killing a Stark, it was wielded by a Stark to kill the Night King. The final lesson from Lord Baelish.

6) Arya Stark: The girl from Winterfell traveled to Essos to train, where the Lord of Light is worshiped. Then she fulfilled the Azor Ahai prophecy while coming home. Not only that, but to start the show, Bran was supposed to be a knight and Arya was supposed to grow to be a lady. Those tables turned at the end of the Battle of Winterfell as Arya was the warrior that protected Bran.

Great stuff, brewski.

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. Yes, there were some holes, and my wife and I were commenting as we watched -- one of the fun things about an episode with little dialogue is that we could have fun providing our own -- but we were highly entertained. And that's why I watch shows like this, to be entertained. I haven't read the books, and I probably never will, so I don't need the show to "live up to" anything Martin might have said or envisioned. I just need to be entertained by good actors presenting a story I enjoy. Mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
Dialogue is overrated.    That scene between Sansa and Tyrion was really good.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 08:19:31 AM
it was good but it's definitely become another generic hollywood show. There should've been a lot more deaths in the episode. It was dark, I had to brighten my screen to watch but I get the realistic sense they were going for. Getting annoyed that they promised us all this direworlf action and we've so far seen two split second scenes. Also disappointed that not a single White Walker fought in the battle dispite having all the valyrian steel swords in one place to set those battles up.

Didn't mind the Arya killing the NK but sort've annoyed that they built up the whole lightbringer prophecy with stannis and just tossed it out the window for the actual battle. And on that topic why did Melissandre even head to Volantis? No Fiery Hand, not even the other two casted red priestesses?

Last complaint, the NK is supposed to be unbelievably badass, but we saw him move to fight once in the entire series. All his actions are as follows
1) Touches baby's forehead
2) Raises arms
3) Throws spear
4) Falls off dragon
5) Raises arms
6) Badass killing of Theon
7) Catch Arya

Just sort of underwhelming, for all we know now the NK was never a real threat himself beyond magic.

Raising a massive army of the undead to do your bidding is sort of badass.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: swoopem on April 29, 2019, 08:19:36 AM
It’s a very small detail but I didn’t understand how when the dead were standing in front of the fire barricades before they broke threw, why the archers weren’t picking them off. That would have been a shooting gallery. They waited till they got threw to shoot their arrows 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 08:25:38 AM
Hmm....not sure about this episode. 

It was so dark and difficult to see what was going on much of the time.  Seemed a little to easy there at the end after the complete ass kicking for 99% of the episode.

I will be curious to see what the fans think.

I'm with you.

The episode was incredibly frustrating. 80 minutes of not being able to tell what was going on.

It ended the way we wanted, but I'm a little disappointed in how we got there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 08:27:44 AM
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because while I was watching it I wasn't thinking, "This is inexplicably bad storytelling."


I was.

There's ways to set mood and environment, while still making it watchable. This was a rare miss by GoT. Not in the story itself but in the way it was portrayed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 08:28:32 AM
How does she get past the wights to pull of the assassination?  I have no problem with her as the killer, but the how part seemed cheap and unsatisfyingly easy.

Agree agree agree +1000

The only possible way I can think of is if she wore the face of a wight, but they gave no hint of that happening.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2019, 08:36:01 AM
She used her encyclopedic knowledge of Winterfell to avoid the army of wights.     Also, a common story telling device in a situation like this is for them to explain it briefly in the next episode.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 29, 2019, 08:43:00 AM
Raising a massive army of the undead to do your bidding is sort of badass.

Also, he took the full brunt of Dany's dragon's fire and didn't even have to brush himself off!

And he was able to sense that Arya was upon him; he stopped her and got her to drop the knife.

Little did he know that Arya had the same kind of hand-to-eye coordination as MJ in his prime (think change-of-hands reverse vs Lakers in '91 Finals!), and she caught the knife with her other hand to finish him off.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 08:56:18 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/4/29/18522174/r-i-p-night-king-we-wish-we-learned-your-secrets
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 29, 2019, 09:02:52 AM
Night King security as Ayra approaches

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5UvdmXXoAMsr3_.jpg)


Viewing party......eruption


https://twitter.com/kitneka/status/1122857108762873859
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2019, 09:18:47 AM
I'm not sure the Night King story is done. His role is done, but I think we may learn that Bran was controlling, or at least communicating with, the Night King during the battle. Once the Iron Throne is settled, I think Bran will go back north of the Wall to become the new Night King, albeit to rest for years until his army is strong enough to march south.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 09:20:52 AM
Agree agree agree +1000

The only possible way I can think of is if she wore the face of a wight, but they gave no hint of that happening.
Well, they spent an entire season showing her being trained as an elite assassin capable to slipping past any defense to kill an intended target. Should we be so surprised the slipped past some distracted wights?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 29, 2019, 09:21:20 AM
nm
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 09:24:16 AM
Raising a massive army of the undead to do your bidding is sort of badass.

I agree but if you can't fight yourself you're essentially Cersei. I thought he'd be slightly more epic
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 09:34:09 AM
I'm not sure the Night King story is done. His role is done, but I think we may learn that Bran was controlling, or at least communicating with, the Night King during the battle. Once the Iron Throne is settled, I think Bran will go back north of the Wall to become the new Night King, albeit to rest for years until his army is strong enough to march south.

I may be proven wrong, but I'd never bought the "Bran is the Night King" theory, and I'm buying it even less after last night's episode.
Also, given that the Night King was created involuntarily by the Children of the Forest, is the theory that Bran will go sacrifice himself to the Children (if any remain)? Why would he do that?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2019, 09:37:48 AM
I may be proven wrong, but I'd never bought the "Bran is the Night King" theory, and I'm buying it even less after last night's episode.

The problem is we are then led to believe Bran spent the entire battle controlling a few ravens. That seems unlikely when he could've been doing so much more.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 29, 2019, 09:38:42 AM
My only concern is if Cersei is a strong enough villain to hold up the last few episodes but I have a feeling she won’t last that long.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 29, 2019, 09:41:20 AM
The problem is we are then led to believe Bran spent the entire battle controlling a few ravens. That seems unlikely when he could've been doing so much more.
I think we’ll find out more from him later but perhaps he already knew how this was going down (he almost had a smirk on his face when NK approached) so he was busy doing other things. I also wouldn’t have put it passed him to be goading NK to the tree using the ravens.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 29, 2019, 10:19:20 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/4/29/18522174/r-i-p-night-king-we-wish-we-learned-your-secrets

I knew I had seen that knife drop move before. Good catch
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 29, 2019, 10:30:04 AM
I may be proven wrong, but I'd never bought the "Bran is the Night King" theory, and I'm buying it even less after last night's episode.
Also, given that the Night King was created involuntarily by the Children of the Forest, is the theory that Bran will go sacrifice himself to the Children (if any remain)? Why would he do that?

Last night increased my belief that GRR Martin has no pages, and that Benioff and Weiss are pissing in the wind and felt written into a corner on the whole NK arc. Accordingly, I don't think we'll see the NK or wights again, other than maybe some sort of disconnected glowing blue eyes cliffhanger at the end of the last ep (especially in light of the prequel series forgetful referenced).

I've tried to reconcile how dissatisfied I feel and felt immediately after last night's episode vs '82's comments, and those by many others I know, that they feel good about how the NK's storyline wrapped up. And I think the difference is that if you're a "show only" person, the NK and wights are a device. They're an instrument for bringing things out of the other characters, and the exposition of their story (and consistency thereof) is not that important. They're essentially zombies who were brought to life by the Children of the Forest, got out of control, and needed to be stopped. So a Clue-like "Arya, under the weirwood tree, with Littlefinger's dagger" ending is sufficient because you only really cared about Arya anyway. 

But if you're a books/online theory person, the NK was a character who represented a lot of what makes the book's universe richer than the TV show's - and accordingly a lot of expectation was heaped onto him. From that perspective, last night was very dissatisfying, and I think there's a great argument to be had about whether that's fair or unfair to Benioff and Weiss, given the chasm between what the NK actually did on the show vs what those actions were expanded to mean by people with broader awareness of the universe as constructed in the books.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 10:39:56 AM
I think we’ll find out more from him later but perhaps he already knew how this was going down (he almost had a smirk on his face when NK approached) so he was busy doing other things. I also wouldn’t have put it passed him to be goading NK to the tree using the ravens.

Yes, I think that's exactly what he was doing. He laid a trap for the NK to saunter into.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 29, 2019, 10:42:22 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/4/29/18522174/r-i-p-night-king-we-wish-we-learned-your-secrets

I just got around to reading this, and it summarizes my feelings really well. Thanks for sharing Hards.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 10:48:09 AM

But if you're a books/online theory person, the NK was a character who represented a lot of what makes the book's universe richer than the TV show's - and accordingly a lot of expectation was heaped onto him. From that perspective, last night was very dissatisfying, and I think there's a great argument to be had about whether that's fair or unfair to Benioff and Weiss, given the chasm between what the NK actually did on the show vs what those actions were expanded to mean by people with broader awareness of the universe as constructed in the books.

I hope you don't take this as a slight, but I've noticed that a lot of the criticism of GoT over the years comes not so much from the story the series is telling, but the story it's not telling. And a lot of that comes from people who've spun theories online about where they think the story is going or should go, and then are critical because the TV series isn't telling the story they want to see, i.e. fan service to that (relatively) minority group of viewers.

Edit: not that it's happening here, but Game of Thrones may be the only series in history that gets criticized by its fans for not killing off enough of their favorite characters.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 11:15:50 AM
Some forums reporting that certain night king secrets couldn't be told because of spin off series
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 29, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
I hope you don't take this as a slight, but I've noticed that a lot of the criticism of GoT over the years comes not so much from the story the series is telling, but the story it's not telling. And a lot of that comes from people who've spun theories online about where they think the story is going or should go, and then are critical because the TV series isn't telling the story they want to see, i.e. fan service to that (relatively) minority group of viewers.

I definitely think there is a lot of truth to this, and I think a fun debate is whether that is fair in this particular case.  Ultimately, to forgetful's earlier point, the "I'm just here for the show" crowd is definitely a vast majority of the viewership at this point, and I have no problem ceding the field to that.  If anything, I probably should have just steered harder into that earlier.  And the fact that GRR Martin himself clearly has no problem letting Benioff and Weiss take on the hardest part of his storytelling (a cohesive conclusion that does justice to all the loose ends) helps further reduce what little remaining amounts of righteous indignation I'd otherwise feel. GRRM is a great world builder, but he clearly doesn't have a consistent narrative left to weave that would bring the books to satisfying conclusion, so asking the HBO show to do it for me is probably unfair. I do think there's a degree to which taking on an adaptation of a story as ambitious as this entitles consumers of the source material to a certain degree of fidelity, though, and I get why really hardcore fans of A Song of Ice and Fire would feel a bit bait and switched - though again, those feelings would be a lot more valid of GRRM would actually either finish the damn books or at least take a heavier hand once the show got past the last published book.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 12:05:04 PM
Curious about the Danny and Jon interaction before the battle, seemed to sense some hostility.

(https://i.redd.it/fq6zhps964v21.jpg)

Here's this weeks episode summary

(https://i.redd.it/hb2jleze94v21.png)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
I hope you don't take this as a slight, but I've noticed that a lot of the criticism of GoT over the years comes not so much from the story the series is telling, but the story it's not telling. And a lot of that comes from people who've spun theories online about where they think the story is going or should go, and then are critical because the TV series isn't telling the story they want to see, i.e. fan service to that (relatively) minority group of viewers.

Edit: not that it's happening here, but Game of Thrones may be the only series in history that gets criticized by its fans for not killing off enough of their favorite characters.

Maybe.  Here is the rub with that.  The series got popular because it wasn't a fan service show.  It killed popular characters, and did it in a brutal way.  Fast forward to now, main characters are completely immune.  Continuity, and logic have taken a back seat to fan service and fairy tale endings.

GOT is popular because of what GRRM created, and now D&D have had years to finish what GRRM started, and all they could come up with was fan fiction fairy tale tropes?  I'm sorry, but did you like how Lost went down?  Perhaps you liked the ending of Dexter?

8 seasons of buildup of how scary the NK is, and how he seemed to be a step ahead of the living, and he gets nicked by ninja Arya out of nowhere?  Also, the NK is basically a head vampire?  AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT?  What show are you watching?  Its utter garbage, and is pandering to stupid people who can't think critically.

So many plot lines seemed to have been forgotten or dismissed so we can see a big battle and simplistic wraps ups.  What a tragic waste of a great story.

Also, Burrow, I think you're right.  Martin has written himself into such a hole that he is just as lost.  I have serious doubts that we ever get a finale to the book series.

Edit: I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, Pakuni, but towards people in general that enjoyed that mess of an episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 12:45:52 PM
What show are you watching?  Its utter garbage, and is pandering to stupid people who can't think critically.


Edit: I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, Pakuni, but towards people in general that enjoyed that mess of an episode.

You are, of course, entirely entitled to your opinion.
But the whole "Anyone who enjoyed something I didn't enjoy is stupid" bit is lame.
It's OK for people to see the same piece of art and have different reactions to it. Your opinion of a TV show doesn't make you smart, and definitely not smarter than anyone else.

Oh, and I was fine with how Lost ended. In fact, I see a ton of parallels to the criticisms of GoT and Lost. Basically, some viewers are BIG MAD that the writers didn't give them the ending they wanted and failed to thoroughly explain every minute plot detail. Which is ironic given your claim that anyone who disagrees with your take is incapable of critical thought.

Dexter ended poorly.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 29, 2019, 12:52:25 PM

8 seasons of buildup of how scary the NK is, and how he seemed to be a step ahead of the living, and he gets nicked by ninja Arya out of nowhere?  Also, the NK is basically a head vampire?  AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT?  What show are you watching?  Its utter garbage, and is pandering to stupid people who can't think critically.



(https://media.giphy.com/media/3h5pe45FM9qUM/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 29, 2019, 12:56:53 PM
You are, of course, entirely entitled to your opinion.
But the whole "Anyone who enjoyed something I didn't enjoy is stupid" bit is lame.
It's OK for people to see the same piece of art and have different reactions to it. Your opinion of a TV show doesn't make you smart, and definitely not smarter than anyone else.

Oh, and I was fine with how Lost ended. In fact, I see a ton of parallels to the criticisms of GoT and Lost. Basically, some viewers are BIG MAD that the writers didn't give them the ending they wanted and failed to thoroughly explain every minute plot detail. Which is ironic given your claim that anyone who disagrees with your take is incapable of critical thought.

Dexter ended poorly.

Off-topic but would love if they resurrected Dexter for one more season to try to give it a more satisfying resolution. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 29, 2019, 01:00:00 PM
Please keep Endgame talk to the other thread.

Gah! His post got deleted but your quote of his lived on and ruined end game for me!

Luckily I don't care much but delete for others who might.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 29, 2019, 01:03:13 PM
But is the army of the dead completely gone?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2019, 01:03:23 PM
You are, of course, entirely entitled to your opinion.
But the whole "Anyone who enjoyed something I didn't enjoy is stupid" bit is lame.
It's OK for people to see the same piece of art and have different reactions to it. Your opinion of a TV show doesn't make you smart, and definitely not smarter than anyone else.

Oh, and I was fine with how Lost ended. In fact, I see a ton of parallels to the criticisms of GoT and Lost. Basically, some viewers are BIG MAD that the writers didn't give them the ending they wanted and failed to thoroughly explain every minute plot detail. Which is ironic given your claim that anyone who disagrees with your take is incapable of critical thought.

Dexter ended poorly.


Spot on. First off, some are never satisfied no matter what. They have an outcome in their own mind and anything that doesn't match up means the show is garbage.

Second, their is such a sprawl to the entire series that there is no way every thread can be wrapped up to perfection. So many storylines - going back thousands of years. So many houses. So many characters. There simply is no perfect ending.

Last night was not a huge surprise. We all knew the NK was going to utterly dominate in the battle. And we all knew that somehow he was going to be defeated. I had little doubt that it would be Arya - otherwise most of her storyline would have made no sense.

Now waiting for the personal attack from Hards - since he already called me (and many others) stupid. At least I now know that I am unable to think critically ;D ;D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on April 29, 2019, 01:06:44 PM
Gah! His post got deleted but your quote of his lived on and ruined end game for me!

Luckily I don't care much but delete for others who might.
Good call, fixed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 29, 2019, 01:19:28 PM
Why did Arya scream in the attack....the term is silent assassin, not screaming assassin.


I think we will see the dead appear again in the last episode as they appeared in the first....whether a new spawn or something completely different, but this isn’t over.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 01:23:58 PM
Why did Arya scream in the attack....the term is silent assassin, not screaming assassin.


I think we will see the dead appear again in the last episode as they appeared in the first....whether a new spawn or something completely different, but this isn’t over.

Umm Jon and the Mountain are still around so the dead are still around.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 29, 2019, 01:25:15 PM
Umm Jon and the Mountain are still around so the dead are still around.

True, but I think you know what I mean.  Blue eyes
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 01:26:10 PM
Well, they spent an entire season showing her being trained as an elite assassin capable to slipping past any defense to kill an intended target. Should we be so surprised the slipped past some distracted wights?

If that is the case fine, but then show us what she did. To spend 80 minutes on an episode and gloss over something so important is stupid.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 29, 2019, 01:27:09 PM
Viewing party......eruption


https://twitter.com/kitneka/status/1122857108762873859

Oh you got internet'd bro.  Thats a video from England during the 2016 Euros. They've been superimposing videos for memes into it for almost 3 years.

Many of my issues were explained by others here.  I just particularly hated the main "warriors".  Jamie, Brienne, Tormund, etc... being absolutely OVERRUN by the wights for a few hours and somehow surviving.  Hell, even Sam's worthless azz survived.  That was just the kind of lazy storytelling you expect out of a cliche war movie, not ruthless GoT.

Also interesting, though not critical to the plot, one of the only times we've ever truly seen Varys show emotion or fear.  He was clearly terrified.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
Last night increased my belief that GRR Martin has no pages, and that Benioff and Weiss are pissing in the wind and felt written into a corner on the whole NK arc. Accordingly, I don't think we'll see the NK or wights again, other than maybe some sort of disconnected glowing blue eyes cliffhanger at the end of the last ep (especially in light of the prequel series forgetful referenced).

I've tried to reconcile how dissatisfied I feel and felt immediately after last night's episode vs '82's comments, and those by many others I know, that they feel good about how the NK's storyline wrapped up. And I think the difference is that if you're a "show only" person, the NK and wights are a device. They're an instrument for bringing things out of the other characters, and the exposition of their story (and consistency thereof) is not that important. They're essentially zombies who were brought to life by the Children of the Forest, got out of control, and needed to be stopped. So a Clue-like "Arya, under the weirwood tree, with Littlefinger's dagger" ending is sufficient because you only really cared about Arya anyway. 

But if you're a books/online theory person, the NK was a character who represented a lot of what makes the book's universe richer than the TV show's - and accordingly a lot of expectation was heaped onto him. From that perspective, last night was very dissatisfying, and I think there's a great argument to be had about whether that's fair or unfair to Benioff and Weiss, given the chasm between what the NK actually did on the show vs what those actions were expanded to mean by people with broader awareness of the universe as constructed in the books.

Well said. And you are probably right on books vs. show. Although I've only read the first book and I still thought it was pretty dissatisfying.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 01:30:55 PM

Spot on. First off, some are never satisfied no matter what. They have an outcome in their own mind and anything that doesn't match up means the show is garbage.

Second, their is such a sprawl to the entire series that there is no way every thread can be wrapped up to perfection. So many storylines - going back thousands of years. So many houses. So many characters. There simply is no perfect ending.

Last night was not a huge surprise. We all knew the NK was going to utterly dominate in the battle. And we all knew that somehow he was going to be defeated. I had little doubt that it would be Arya - otherwise most of her storyline would have made no sense.

Now waiting for the personal attack from Hards - since he already called me (and many others) stupid. At least I now know that I am unable to think critically ;D ;D

I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

I didn't have any expectations last night going in but to be wowed.  And I was, wowed.  Just not with the lack luster story telling.  Once Jorah rode back from the Dothraki death scene I was worried.  When Greyworm was standing at the front of the assault and then somehow survived, I shook my head.  And when we got Lyanna Mormont's death I knew what we were getting from here on out was lazy fan fic.

I'm not upset that every plot didn't get wrapped up, after all, there are still three episodes left.  But at the same time, I doubt there was any point to some of the plots at all... we are just supposed to accept them as filler?  That's fine, but then why write them in at all?   I didn't say I was smarter than anyone, or that they were dumb for enjoying something that I didn't.  I said they lacked critical thinking.  I'm just surprised that after all the quality we got for years, that people are okay with what happened.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 01:32:04 PM

Spot on. First off, some are never satisfied no matter what. They have an outcome in their own mind and anything that doesn't match up means the show is garbage.


I had no outcome in mind. My beef wasn't with the outcome, but how it was told. And yesterday's episode certainly wasn't garbage. But it did not live up to the prior 7 seasons we have enjoyed. It was poor storytelling and a disappointment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 01:38:41 PM
I had no outcome in mind. My beef wasn't with the outcome, but how it was told. And yesterday's episode certainly wasn't garbage. But it did not live up to the prior 7 seasons we have enjoyed. It was poor storytelling and a disappointment.

I probably did over exaggerate when I said it was garbage.  I should have probably said that it wasn't up to the standards we are used to for this show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 29, 2019, 01:48:56 PM
I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

I didn't have any expectations last night going in but to be wowed.  And I was, wowed.  Just not with the lack luster story telling.  Once Jorah rode back from the Dothraki death scene I was worried.  When Greyworm was standing at the front of the assault and then somehow survived, I shook my head.  And when we got Lyanna Mormont's death I knew what we were getting from here on out was lazy fan fic.

I'm not upset that every plot didn't get wrapped up, after all, there are still three episodes left.  But at the same time, I doubt there was any point to some of the plots at all... we are just supposed to accept them as filler?  That's fine, but then why write them in at all?   I didn't say I was smarter than anyone, or that they were dumb for enjoying something that I didn't.  I said they lacked critical thinking.  I'm just surprised that after all the quality we got for years, that people are okay with what happened.

I agree with this 100%

The story has so many things to wrap up but the D&D are tired of making it so theyre focused on "fooled yah!" Then they are tying everything up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 29, 2019, 01:58:58 PM
But what if the whole point is that the humans were the biggest threat all along? Sure they banded together to defeat the obvious villain (who will show up in a prequel series I'm sure) but now they have nothing to do but turn on each other and what if the moral of this particular story is that humans only rise above their petty squabbling and lust for power when faced with a non-human existential threat?

Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 29, 2019, 02:27:02 PM
If that is the case fine, but then show us what she did. To spend 80 minutes on an episode and gloss over something so important is stupid.

Why does everything have to be spelled out?  She knew her home inside and out.  It's not difficult to imagine she could have navigated her way to where Bran was without being noticed.  Not to mention doing so would have ruined the moment when she attacked the Night King.  Sometimes it's ok not to show and explain everything. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 02:31:11 PM
Why does everything have to be spelled out?  She knew her home inside and out.  It's not difficult to imagine she could have navigated her way to where Bran was without being noticed.  Not to mention doing so would have ruined the moment when she attacked the Night King.  Sometimes it's ok not to show and explain everything.

There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 29, 2019, 02:32:16 PM
But what if the whole point is that the humans were the biggest threat all along? Sure they banded together to defeat the obvious villain (who will show up in a prequel series I'm sure) but now they have nothing to do but turn on each other and what if the moral of this particular story is that humans only rise above their petty squabbling and lust for power when faced with a non-human existential threat?

Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.

I think you're giving GRRM (and humanity) far too much credit.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 29, 2019, 02:32:58 PM
There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

Saying there were thousands of wights between where Arya was when she left Melisandre and The Hound and where she had to go is a massive assumption.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 29, 2019, 02:38:27 PM
Also, seems like the books rely heavily on magic at the core and the show doesn't so it's hard to explain magical things within the TV show.

I think this is one of the biggest challenges. Magic is a lot more downplayed in the show than the books. Maybe they were right to do that. All us nerds are dying to know the hows and whys of bran, the night king,  and the faceless men, but there's a reason why fantasy shows often struggle with larger audiences. The successful ones focus more on the human elements
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 02:40:47 PM
I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 

I didn't have any expectations last night going in but to be wowed.  And I was, wowed.  Just not with the lack luster story telling.  Once Jorah rode back from the Dothraki death scene I was worried.  When Greyworm was standing at the front of the assault and then somehow survived, I shook my head.  And when we got Lyanna Mormont's death I knew what we were getting from here on out was lazy fan fic.

I'm not upset that every plot didn't get wrapped up, after all, there are still three episodes left.  But at the same time, I doubt there was any point to some of the plots at all... we are just supposed to accept them as filler?  That's fine, but then why write them in at all?   I didn't say I was smarter than anyone, or that they were dumb for enjoying something that I didn't.  I said they lacked critical thinking.  I'm just surprised that after all the quality we got for years, that people are okay with what happened.

As I said, you're wholly entitled to your opinion, and because I mean that, I won't argue over the details of the plot, etc.
That said, you complain of fan service in the choices the writers made, and yet demand fan service for the way you think it should have played out. See:
- "Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?"
- "Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now."
- "Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice."

As for the deaths/lack thereof for Jorah, Greyworm, Lyanna, etc., main characters' deaths need to serve the narrative of the story, not just rack up the body count. While you accurately note that GoT has willingly killed off popular characters, it always has been in furtherance of the story. Jorah dying offscreen with the Dothraki doesn't do that. Lyanna or Greyworm dying in at the hands (or teeth) of a random wight doesn't do that.
If your issue is that main characters sometimes escaping seemingly impossible situations (not to mention continuity and logic), then perhaps fantasy fiction isn't the thing for you.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 29, 2019, 02:51:49 PM
There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

But there is a believable explanation. Arya is a sneaky-as-f--- assassin, which the show has gone to great lengths to show, especially in this season. Like, when hiding from the wights in Winterfell, they couldn't hear her movements, but could hear a drop of blood. Or when she snuck up on Jon in episode 1 in the exact same spot where she killed the Night King.
I mean, sure, the show could have shown her putting on a wight's face, slipping through the horde, etc., but that would have deprived viewers of a moment that - for most of us, at least - was far more satisfying than fulfilling the  need for a detailed exposition of her every movement.
And there was much foreshadowing that Arya was going to be the one to kill the Night King.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/ac89f0a402bc682403f44c3f2e81738e/tumblr_pc8vbrhxBp1qeam0qo6_r1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 29, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
I think this is one of the biggest challenges. Magic is a lot more downplayed in the show than the books. Maybe they were right to do that. All us nerds are dying to know the hows and whys of bran, the night king,  and the faceless men, but there's a reason why fantasy shows often struggle with larger audiences. The successful ones focus more on the human elements

This is what I loved about the Star Wars EU back in the day....the written word is so much better for world building and being able to "explain how things work". Movies and Shows just can't do that very well especially as expansive as the magic is within GoT. I mean, I know nothing about the show or books other than what I hear people talk about or see on twitter/this message board and it seems like there are 37 different prophecies from different sources alone....how do all of those work, are they all true or not true, etc.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 29, 2019, 03:16:43 PM
I think you're giving GRRM (and humanity) far too much credit.

Maybe, this is all for me to set up my fan fiction (even though I've never seen or heard for the sources directly) that the humans will destroy each other and whoever remains will restart society and Bran will become the new Night King who will resurface when humanity needs to be reunited again.

And yes, this is stolen nearly directly from the remade Battlestar Galactica, but whatevs (All of this has happened before and will happen again).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2019, 03:19:56 PM
I didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone.

So, it had to be Arya? If her story mattered, why did they bother with the ENTIRE faceless man, face stealing part?  Why didn't she just find a Bravosi water dancer like Syrio to complete her training?  Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?  Instead, we got a minor callback to her sparring with Brienne.  Like, that's neat, but it ignores so much of her character.

Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now.  Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice. 



So Jon (Keefe) was gonna get out his collection of 3" plastic soldiers and play "army" to save the 7 Kingdoms? :-\


I didn't say it had to be Arya who killed the NK. It was just my opinion based on watching the entire series. Others had their own valid opinions as well.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2019, 03:24:13 PM
I probably did over exaggerate when I said it was garbage.  I should have probably said that it wasn't up to the standards we are used to for this show.

I understand why many believe this. As I said earlier, there is really no way to end such a sprawling series to everyone's satisfaction.

But given the limited episodes for the final season and still much to be decided, I though devoting one entire episode to the battle (and this was probably as extended a battle scene as I have ever seen in a movie or series), was giving it its due. The "Battle of the Bastards" was an epic battle, but what did it get - 10 minutes or so?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 29, 2019, 03:27:19 PM
There's a difference between spelling something out, and providing a believable explanation for one person to navigate between literally thousands of wights that decimated a Dothraki horde.

You want a "believable explanation" in a show that has dragons, witches, bringing dead people back to life, etc.? The show is Fantasy - not day-to-day reality.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 29, 2019, 03:33:19 PM
But she snuck up on Jon Snow in virtually the same spot in season 1.    Pretty sure she had a secret route. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 04:01:10 PM
As I said, you're wholly entitled to your opinion, and because I mean that, I won't argue over the details of the plot, etc.
That said, you complain of fan service in the choices the writers made, and yet demand fan service for the way you think it should have played out. See:
- "Wouldn't something more interesting (say her stealing the face of a wight, and then stabbing the NK) be a bit more of a call back to her story arc in Essos?"
- "Why couldn't it be Jon that kills the NK?  That seemed like the most obvious outcome.  They have been going at it for seasons now."
- "Why isn't Dany a better foil to the NK?  She is fire, and he is ice."

As for the deaths/lack thereof for Jorah, Greyworm, Lyanna, etc., main characters' deaths need to serve the narrative of the story, not just rack up the body count. While you accurately note that GoT has willingly killed off popular characters, it always has been in furtherance of the story. Jorah dying offscreen with the Dothraki doesn't do that. Lyanna or Greyworm dying in at the hands (or teeth) of a random wight doesn't do that.
If your issue is that main characters sometimes escaping seemingly impossible situations (not to mention continuity and logic), then perhaps fantasy fiction isn't the thing for you.

Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

You want a "believable explanation" in a show that has dragons, witches, bringing dead people back to life, etc.? The show is Fantasy - not day-to-day reality.



That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 29, 2019, 04:23:38 PM
Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.

I think this show/world DID change quite a bit when it moved beyond being a literary adaptation and became a TV show.

I really enjoyed this podcast today: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/29/18523065/breaking-down-game-of-thrones-s8e3
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 04:26:10 PM
I think this show/world DID change quite a bit when it moved beyond being a literary adaptation and became a TV show.

I really enjoyed this podcast today: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/29/18523065/breaking-down-game-of-thrones-s8e3

You're right, it became an entirely different show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on April 29, 2019, 04:52:39 PM
Right there is the problem.  It started back with Arya getting stabbed a ton in the stomach in Bravos.

Its the consistency of it all.  Robert Baratheon got gored by a warthog, and died bedridden a few days later after being cared for by a Maester.  Arya gets stabbed multiple times in the stomach, and shakes that right off.  Its stupid.  Period.  I'm fine with SOME things being unbelievable, but when we are beaten over the head with it ten times in an episode, its just lazy.

That isn't what he is saying, you're just being disingenuous.  There is a world that has been created, and there seem to be some rules.  Ignoring the rules or changing them this late in the game is objectively terrible.

I feel like an 18 year old would be in better health overall and more likely to live through a trauma then a 60 something year old fat out of shape drunk would. Ie, pneumonia is something I could shake off and go do a couple laps, whereas my grandma may die from it while being in the world best hospital.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2019, 04:58:40 PM
Robert Baratheon was also poisoned before he was gored, but why let the narrative get in the way of a new narrative?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 05:42:53 PM
(https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/arya-gets-stabbed.gif?w=1000)

Point is, brew, that no one survies catching a ton of stabs to the gut in those days.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2019, 06:12:46 PM
(https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/arya-gets-stabbed.gif?w=1000)

Point is, brew, that no one survies catching a ton of stabs to the gut in those days.

Pretty solid evidence that she's Azor Ahai reborn, and you don't think R'hllor might have been able to look out for Arya considering he resurrected Jon Snow & Beric Dondarrion multiple times? Suspension of disbelief isn't just recommended in fantasy, it's required.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 07:19:54 PM
Pretty solid evidence that she's Azor Ahai reborn, and you don't think R'hllor might have been able to look out for Arya considering he resurrected Jon Snow & Beric Dondarrion multiple times? Suspension of disbelief isn't just recommended in fantasy, it's required.

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

What?  Based on what evidence at all?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on April 29, 2019, 09:25:58 PM
Oh you got internet'd bro.  Thats a video from England during the 2016 Euros. They've been superimposing videos for memes into it for almost 3 years.

Many of my issues were explained by others here.  I just particularly hated the main "warriors".  Jamie, Brienne, Tormund, etc... being absolutely OVERRUN by the wights for a few hours and somehow surviving.  Hell, even Sam's worthless azz survived.  That was just the kind of lazy storytelling you expect out of a cliche war movie, not ruthless GoT.

Also interesting, though not critical to the plot, one of the only times we've ever truly seen Varys show emotion or fear.  He was clearly terrified.

Thanks


Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 29, 2019, 09:42:45 PM
Quote
Maisie Williams on finding out she kills the Night King (as reported by Entertainment Weekly):

"I immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn't deserve it. The hardest thing is in any series is when you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them...it had to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, "well, [the villain] couldn't have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.'"

Well said.

res ipsa loquitur
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 29, 2019, 10:28:13 PM
I hope you don't take this as a slight, but I've noticed that a lot of the criticism of GoT over the years comes not so much from the story the series is telling, but the story it's not telling. And a lot of that comes from people who've spun theories online about where they think the story is going or should go, and then are critical because the TV series isn't telling the story they want to see, i.e. fan service to that (relatively) minority group of viewers.

Edit: not that it's happening here, but Game of Thrones may be the only series in history that gets criticized by its fans for not killing off enough of their favorite characters.

At least for me, my small problems with GoT, has nothing to do with theories spun online.

It has to do with the world and stories GRRM created in the books, and how the show violated core tenets of the actual world. Most of this deals with the Night King's story arc.

I really don't have a preference on how it ends, it just needs to be internally consistent with the world of Ice and Fire. The story of wanting to kill Bran to end the "memories of man" just isn't consistent. That's a bit disappointing from a World of GRRM standpoint. It really has nothing to do with online theories.

I personally wouldn't be surprised (as I mentioned before), if this whole story becomes false in the prequel. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bran ends up bad at the end of this. Melisandre suggest Bran is one of the Night King's generals in the books, and everything around the 3-eyed crow/Bloodraven suggest they are part of the God of Darkness (e.g. the Great Other).

That said, I understand why they did that from a show standpoint. I love the show. Think it is well done. Personally, I think there could be some improvements, like having an extra season, like I suggested before, but also understand why that is not the case. I said it last season and this, the issues with plot points are because they are a little rushed timeline wise and need to tie up a lot of lose ends, too much gets left unanswered.

Like what happened to Crastors babies that were turned to others without dying? Are they still around? Where are they? What is their purpose? and so many more.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2019, 05:56:06 AM
https://twitter.com/notdred/status/1122842150377590790?s=19

This is great
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 30, 2019, 07:17:12 AM
Lowest rated episode on rotten tomatoes since season 5 with 78% average is 94%
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 30, 2019, 07:43:30 AM
At least for me, my small problems with GoT, has nothing to do with theories spun online.

It has to do with the world and stories GRRM created in the books, and how the show violated core tenets of the actual world. Most of this deals with the Night King's story arc.

I really don't have a preference on how it ends, it just needs to be internally consistent with the world of Ice and Fire. The story of wanting to kill Bran to end the "memories of man" just isn't consistent. That's a bit disappointing from a World of GRRM standpoint. It really has nothing to do with online theories.

I personally wouldn't be surprised (as I mentioned before), if this whole story becomes false in the prequel. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bran ends up bad at the end of this. Melisandre suggest Bran is one of the Night King's generals in the books, and everything around the 3-eyed crow/Bloodraven suggest they are part of the God of Darkness (e.g. the Great Other).

That said, I understand why they did that from a show standpoint. I love the show. Think it is well done. Personally, I think there could be some improvements, like having an extra season, like I suggested before, but also understand why that is not the case. I said it last season and this, the issues with plot points are because they are a little rushed timeline wise and need to tie up a lot of lose ends, too much gets left unanswered.

Like what happened to Crastors babies that were turned to others without dying? Are they still around? Where are they? What is their purpose? and so many more.

The problem is that novels and TV shows are two very different story telling mediums so you can't really compare the two. I mean if you want Bran to go into severe narrator voice and explain the NK motivations and origins for an episode or 3, you could get there but that seems boring as hell to me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2019, 08:12:46 AM
"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

What?  Based on what evidence at all?

She led the people against the darkness, Beric was brought back 6 times so he could save Arya, prophecies aren't always literal.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 30, 2019, 08:18:48 AM
She led the people against the darkness, Beric was brought back 6 times so he could save Arya, prophecies aren't always literal.

They just threw prophecy out the window. There's no rationale, even if you're using symbolism, for Arya based off the prophecy. Nothing wrong, but the writers should've said in the post interviews they decided to go a different direction or they felt the prophecy didn't necessarily mean defeating the night king personally but bringing everyone together
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 08:51:08 AM
They just threw prophecy out the window. There's no rationale, even if you're using symbolism, for Arya based off the prophecy. Nothing wrong, but the writers should've said in the post interviews they decided to go a different direction or they felt the prophecy didn't necessarily mean defeating the night king personally but bringing everyone together

Exactly.  I have no problem with Arya being AA or any of the three prophecies fulfilled.  I have a problem with how lazy the writing was to get us there.

The problem is that novels and TV shows are two very different story telling mediums so you can't really compare the two. I mean if you want Bran to go into severe narrator voice and explain the NK motivations and origins for an episode or 3, you could get there but that seems boring as hell to me.

Harry Potter did the Deathly Hallows story in under three minutes, and it was brilliant.  Bran doesn't have to narrate anything either.  Sam went to the Citadel to forge his chain, but also to learn as much as he could about the Others.  Bran and Sam and Tyrion as a group could have put their three knowledge bases together to discuss something about them for 3 minutes, and it would have been just fine.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on April 30, 2019, 09:09:15 AM
Exactly.  I have no problem with Arya being AA or any of the three prophecies fulfilled.  I have a problem with how lazy the writing was to get us there.

Harry Potter did the Deathly Hallows story in under three minutes, and it was brilliant.  Bran doesn't have to narrate anything either.  Sam went to the Citadel to forge his chain, but also to learn as much as he could about the Others.  Bran and Sam and Tyrion as a group could have put their three knowledge bases together to discuss something about them for 3 minutes, and it would have been just fine.

Not to mention this was an 83 minute episode. And there is no cap on how long they are. If they wanted to go 100 minutes, HBO would let them. There is plenty of time to tell whatever story they want in whatever way they can think of. The "TV shows are different" doesn't really hold up. This is not a standard 42 minute network cable TV show with commercials. These could be full length films for each episode if they wanted (that's actually what we were promised a year or two ago, so much for that). There's really no excuse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 09:14:18 AM
At least for me, my small problems with GoT, has nothing to do with theories spun online.

It has to do with the world and stories GRRM created in the books, and how the show violated core tenets of the actual world. Most of this deals with the Night King's story arc.

I really don't have a preference on how it ends, it just needs to be internally consistent with the world of Ice and Fire. The story of wanting to kill Bran to end the "memories of man" just isn't consistent. That's a bit disappointing from a World of GRRM standpoint. It really has nothing to do with online theories.

I personally wouldn't be surprised (as I mentioned before), if this whole story becomes false in the prequel. I also wouldn't be surprised if Bran ends up bad at the end of this. Melisandre suggest Bran is one of the Night King's generals in the books, and everything around the 3-eyed crow/Bloodraven suggest they are part of the God of Darkness (e.g. the Great Other).

That said, I understand why they did that from a show standpoint. I love the show. Think it is well done. Personally, I think there could be some improvements, like having an extra season, like I suggested before, but also understand why that is not the case. I said it last season and this, the issues with plot points are because they are a little rushed timeline wise and need to tie up a lot of lose ends, too much gets left unanswered.

Like what happened to Crastors babies that were turned to others without dying? Are they still around? Where are they? What is their purpose? and so many more.

This is all fine and your points are well taken. But keep in mind that most of us show viewers didn't first read the books and it really doesn't matter to us whether the TV show aligns perfectly with what Martin created in the novels. While some of you mock the "Fan service" of the TV show, you're demanding your own type of fan service from the showrunners. That matters not at all to most viewers. And that doesn't, as some would have you believe, make us stupid or incapable of critical thought.

Re: The Crastor babies became white walkers, and hence would have been killed when the Night King died. This, like Arya's exact movements leading up to her leaping out at the NK, is not something I felt I needed to have my hand held through.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 30, 2019, 09:21:03 AM
This is all fine and your points are well taken. But keep in mind that most of us show viewers didn't first read the books and it really doesn't matter to us whether the TV show aligns perfectly with what Martin created in the novels. While some of you mock the "Fan service" of the TV show, you're demanding your own type of fan service from the showrunners. That matters not at all to most viewers. And that doesn't, as some would have you believe, make us stupid or incapable of critical thought.

Re: The Crastor babies became white walkers, and hence would have been killed when the Night King died. This, like Arya's exact movements leading up to her leaping out at the NK, is not something I felt I needed to have my hand held through.

Right but you became a fan of the show because of the publicity it got for staying true to the books. Unless you started watching randomly and continued to watch and not like it until they brought Jon back and then thought it got good from there?

I only read the books since I moved to Galway so it's not like I've been hounding them to stick to the books since the beginning but there's a point where you have to admit they backtracked on a lot of what was set up even if you aren't a book reader. They could have not added those elements from the books but they did and should be held accountable to them tie up the loose ends
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 09:33:01 AM
Right but you became a fan of the show because of the publicity it got for staying true to the books. Unless you started watching randomly and continued to watch and not like it until they brought Jon back and then thought it got good from there?

Nope. I've watched the show from the first episode, having never heard of the books at that point.
Why would someone start watching a TV show because it stayed true to books they've never read? That would be weird.

Quote
I only read the books since I moved to Galway so it's not like I've been hounding them to stick to the books since the beginning but there's a point where you have to admit they backtracked on a lot of what was set up even if you aren't a book reader. They could have not added those elements from the books but they did and should be held accountable to them tie up the loose ends

I guess this is where we differ. I'm just not seeing this great schism you speak of, or how they've "backtracked" on a lot of what was set up. Could you cite some specific examples of how the showrunners have backtracked? And by that I mean, I don't want examples of where you disagree with their narrative choices ... actual examples of backtracking.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 30, 2019, 09:39:44 AM
Nope. I've watched the show from the first episode, having never heard of the books at that point.
Why would someone start watching a TV show because it stayed true to books they've never read? That would be weird.

I guess this is where we differ. I'm just not seeing this great schism you speak of, or how they've "backtracked" on a lot of what was set up. Could you cite some specific examples of how the showrunners have backtracked? And by that I mean, I don't want examples of where you disagree with their narrative choices ... actual examples of backtracking.

To the first paragraph I meant the writing that hooked you and general culture on the show was based on the books. Didn't mean you were watching directly because of the books.

I'll do the backtracking list Thursday or Friday as it's exams over here. Backtracking may not be the best term but you'll understand more what I mean when I put together my list.

Also not just to you but everyone, did any of you think the Jon yelling at the dragon scene served any purpose whatsoever? It was ridiculous 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 09:50:59 AM
Not to mention this was an 83 minute episode. And there is no cap on how long they are. If they wanted to go 100 minutes, HBO would let them. There is plenty of time to tell whatever story they want in whatever way they can think of. The "TV shows are different" doesn't really hold up. This is not a standard 42 minute network cable TV show with commercials. These could be full length films for each episode if they wanted (that's actually what we were promised a year or two ago, so much for that). There's really no excuse.

An exposition, even a short one, would not have fit well in that episode.  And how do we know there's wont be more explanation before the series ends?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2019, 09:57:32 AM
Showrunners have a tough path to walk.

I love the "characters in rooms talking" episodes and scenes. Other viewers want all action. Other viewers want strict Canon (even with parts unyet written by Martin). Others want the prophecy/story to play out based on whatever theory they like best

Tough situation.

Love the show. Possibly the last epic show that no one will binge watch
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 30, 2019, 10:49:24 AM
Lowest rated episode on rotten tomatoes since season 5 with 78% average is 94%

Sounds about right.  It was a beautifully shot episode.  The scene with the Dothraki being lit with fire was breathtaking.  And it was entertaining.

My main gripes became exacerbated when people breathlessly started talking about it was the best episode, best episode of a show ever, all this nonsense.  It felt like people who started watching the show from Season 7 onwards.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 30, 2019, 10:52:08 AM
This is all fine and your points are well taken. But keep in mind that most of us show viewers didn't first read the books and it really doesn't matter to us whether the TV show aligns perfectly with what Martin created in the novels. While some of you mock the "Fan service" of the TV show, you're demanding your own type of fan service from the showrunners. That matters not at all to most viewers. And that doesn't, as some would have you believe, make us stupid or incapable of critical thought.

Re: The Crastor babies became white walkers, and hence would have been killed when the Night King died. This, like Arya's exact movements leading up to her leaping out at the NK, is not something I felt I needed to have my hand held through.

There is a difference between fan service (pandering to desires of fans) and being true to the universe created by the author.

But I wholly agree with you regarding the show vs. the book. That's why I really enjoy the show; I do my best to separate them.

Re. Castor babies. That doesn't fit the narrative of the show or the book. If that is the real explanation, it is sloppy writing for the sake of a cool seen where a babies eyes turn blue.

I think that we will still see white walkers/night king. There is an emphasis on balance in the world GRRM created. That applies to balance between the Great Other, and R'hllor. Winter and Summer, Darkness and Light, and Death and Life. Destroying one completely, would suggest there is no longer a balance.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 30, 2019, 10:55:54 AM
Showrunners have a tough path to walk.

I love the "characters in rooms talking" episodes and scenes. Other viewers want all action. Other viewers want strict Canon (even with parts unyet written by Martin). Others want the prophecy/story to play out based on whatever theory they like best

Tough situation.

Love the show. Possibly the last epic show that no one will binge watch

For those wanting tragedy. Wait for episode 5. It will be more tragic than episode 3.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 11:10:31 AM
This is all fine and your points are well taken. But keep in mind that most of us show viewers didn't first read the books and it really doesn't matter to us whether the TV show aligns perfectly with what Martin created in the novels. While some of you mock the "Fan service" of the TV show, you're demanding your own type of fan service from the showrunners. That matters not at all to most viewers. And that doesn't, as some would have you believe, make us stupid or incapable of critical thought.

Re: The Crastor babies became white walkers, and hence would have been killed when the Night King died. This, like Arya's exact movements leading up to her leaping out at the NK, is not something I felt I needed to have my hand held through.

You're not listening to me at all.  I don't expect the show to be faithful to the books at all.  If that were the case, I would not have watched the show at all!  What I do expect is that the narrative is consistent with the world that had been created over the last decade.  If the writers introduce plots and prophecies and then just disregard them because they are difficult to wrap up, then its fair to call out their bad writing.  If a character who is surrounded by enemies would have died in seasons 1-6, but is somehow immune to death at this point... we get to call out bad writing as well... Right?

Look, if you're going to have the characters get overwhelmed by enemies, then they should probably die.  I'm fine if they live, but make it believable.  Make it consistent with the universe created.  Otherwise, screw it.  Make Mellisandre turn into a big dragon or something else as equally stupid.  People would have lost their damn minds if something, "sO cOoL" had happened.  It also would have been, "unexpected'.  But it has no precedent, and it wouldn't have been part of the universe.  So it would have been bad writing too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 11:12:14 AM
Re. Castor babies. That doesn't fit the narrative of the show or the book. If that is the real explanation, it is sloppy writing for the sake of a cool seen where a babies eyes turn blue.

It definitely fits in the narrative of the show, maybe both. In fact, don't Craster's wives refer to the White Walkers as "Craster's sons."
From a GoT wiki:
In the episode "Oathkeeper" the fate of Craster's sons is revealed when a White Walker riding an undead horse takes the last son of Craster and carries him towards a shattered mountain in the Lands of Always Winter.
Once inside, the White Walker approaches an icy altar ringed by large icy spikes and places the baby upon the altar. In the distance, a group of thirteen black-garbed White Walkers are revealed to be viewing the proceedings from afar. One of them breaks from the middle of their number and approaches the altar, stopping to regard the human child for a moment before gently gathering him in its arms. The baby immediately calms, staring into the face of the White Walker. It places its index finger upon the baby's cheek, causing the child's eyes to slow turn to icy, depthless blue and his skin to grow pale, transforming him into another White Walker.



As for the books, I haven't read them, but according to the GoT wiki:
In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Craster's wives are convinced that the baby boys given by Craster to the Others are, in turn, transformed into new Others. However, no such event has ever been witnessed in the books so far.
Craster's wives do say that they believe that the infant sons that Craster gave the Others as sacrifices were turned into new White Walkers - but it wasn't clear if this is what actually happens, or if it was just the wild suspicion of Craster's frightened, isolated wives. When Samwell is told to flee with Gilly and her newborn son, Gilly urges that if he doesn't "they" will come for him. When he asks who "they" are, another wife says: "The boy's brothers...Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."
Confirmation of what exactly happens to Craster's sons has not occurred in the books yet.


So, while we can't say for certain that's what happens in the books, it's appears to be the only possibility mentioned so far. Unless the wiki is wrong, which is always possible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2019, 11:22:18 AM
After reading every comment here, I feel so silly to be enjoying this season. I should be screaming about how very, very disappointed and disillusioned I am.

Anyhoo, I haven't read this theory about who ascends to the crown after Sersei meets her doom (though it probably has been espoused by somebody either here or elsewhere):

What if it's Gendry, with Arya as his bad-arse queen? He is Robert's rightful heir, and haven't folks been talking about a royal Baratheon/Stark union forever?

Maybe that can only happen if either Jon/Dany both die or if Jon/Dany agree to it for some reason, or (more likely because I'm not a super-deep-overthinker when it comes to GoT) maybe I'm missing something that would make it impossible.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Warrior Code on April 30, 2019, 11:23:19 AM
An exposition, even a short one, would not have fit well in that episode.  And how do we know there's wont be more explanation before the series ends?

Right? This wasn't the final episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
You're not listening to me at all.  I don't expect the show to be faithful to the books at all.  If that were the case, I would not have watched the show at all!  What I do expect is that the narrative is consistent with the world that had been created over the last decade.  If the writers introduce plots and prophecies and then just disregard them because they are difficult to wrap up, then its fair to call out their bad writing.  If a character who is surrounded by enemies would have died in seasons 1-6, but is somehow immune to death at this point... we get to call out bad writing as well... Right?

So you're suggesting no one got out of an improbable situation in the first six seasons.
Tywin showing up just in the nick of time to save the day in Blackwater doesn't ring familiar?
Sansa somehow gets the Knights of the Vale to the Battle of the Bastards just as all seemed lost for Jon and his men?
Sorry, but heroes escaping improbable odds is not an invention of the showrunners, or something that goes against the tenents of the novels.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 30, 2019, 11:28:34 AM
It definitely fits in the narrative of the show, maybe both. In fact, don't Craster's wives refer to the White Walkers as "Craster's sons."
From a GoT wiki:
In the episode "Oathkeeper" the fate of Craster's sons is revealed when a White Walker riding an undead horse takes the last son of Craster and carries him towards a shattered mountain in the Lands of Always Winter.
Once inside, the White Walker approaches an icy altar ringed by large icy spikes and places the baby upon the altar. In the distance, a group of thirteen black-garbed White Walkers are revealed to be viewing the proceedings from afar. One of them breaks from the middle of their number and approaches the altar, stopping to regard the human child for a moment before gently gathering him in its arms. The baby immediately calms, staring into the face of the White Walker. It places its index finger upon the baby's cheek, causing the child's eyes to slow turn to icy, depthless blue and his skin to grow pale, transforming him into another White Walker.



As for the books, I haven't read them, but according to the GoT wiki:
In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Craster's wives are convinced that the baby boys given by Craster to the Others are, in turn, transformed into new Others. However, no such event has ever been witnessed in the books so far.
Craster's wives do say that they believe that the infant sons that Craster gave the Others as sacrifices were turned into new White Walkers - but it wasn't clear if this is what actually happens, or if it was just the wild suspicion of Craster's frightened, isolated wives. When Samwell is told to flee with Gilly and her newborn son, Gilly urges that if he doesn't "they" will come for him. When he asks who "they" are, another wife says: "The boy's brothers...Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons."
Confirmation of what exactly happens to Craster's sons has not occurred in the books yet.


So, while we can't say for certain that's what happens in the books, it's appears to be the only possibility mentioned so far. Unless the wiki is wrong, which is always possible.

There is a lot more in the books/lore of Westeros. I could go on and on about how the show is inconsistent (with itself) and how it is also inconsistent with the books, including on this topic, where the Castor's sons angle is internally inconsistent with both, but it doesn't really serve a point, and we will spiral into absurdity.

The reality is, the show often resorted to plot points for the purpose of creating a "cool scene" e.g. Castor's baby, that really had no purpose in the story, and was internally inconsistent with other aspects, or a blatant example of deus ex machina. That is fine, the show can do that, and general fans will simply think "that was cool". But from a writing standpoint, and lore standpoint it is pointless and incorrect. I still love the show regardless.

I'll repeat, that I'm pretty certain that HBO will use these internal inconsistencies, explaining it away as written histories often get lore wrong (this being a written history re. Sam), to justify rewriting the lore of the Night King, White Walkers, and the Starks in their prequel.

I mean after all, GRRM stated in 2015, that the Night King may not even really exist anymore, and that the likelihood he survived to the current era is as likely as Lann the Clever (Tyrion) and Bran the Builder still being alive.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2019, 11:34:13 AM
So you're suggesting no one got out of an improbable situation in the first six seasons.
Tywin showing up just in the nick of time to save the day in Blackwater doesn't ring familiar?
Sansa somehow gets the Knights of the Vale to the Battle of the Bastards just as all seemed lost for Jon and his men?
Sorry, but heroes escaping improbable odds is not an invention of the showrunners, or something that goes against the tenents of the novels.

I haven't read one word in one of the books, but I'm guessing that a few heroes escaped improbable odds more than a few times in them, too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 30, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
So you're suggesting no one got out of an improbable situation in the first six seasons.
Tywin showing up just in the nick of time to save the day in Blackwater doesn't ring familiar?
Sansa somehow gets the Knights of the Vale to the Battle of the Bastards just as all seemed lost for Jon and his men?
Sorry, but heroes escaping improbable odds is not an invention of the showrunners, or something that goes against the tenents of the novels.

Neither of those were that odd. They set up an alliance between Lannister and Tyrell significantly in advance to allow that to occur. They even had Loras wearing Renly's armor to lead to additional confusion (set up by the romance between the two and bad blood between Renly and Stanis). That was well set up.

So was Sansa and the Knights of the Vale. That was clearly indicated as set up by Little finger (also set up the alliance above). Sansa refused them initially, the show repeatedly indicated the tension of the situation when Jon and her fight over them not having enough men..."but those are all we got". Sansa then goes and gets the army pledged to fight for her through Littlefinger. Not odd, and clearly set up show wise, thought it was extremely good writing, acting, and scene setup.

I'll add another, Jon surviving the same battle. He survived by being trampled into the rest of the dead by his own men. He's nearly trampled to death. Believable, and highlights to Jon his own mortality and failures. Realistic, and brilliantly shot from a cinematography standpoint.

contrast:

Jorah magically going from fighting inside Winterfell, to appearing a quarter mile outside the gate (past a wall of freshly raised dead) to appear just in the knick of time to save Dany. It defies logic and had no plot support. Cool yes, consistent with his story arc, so he can get a clean death, yes, but pure deus ex machina.

There is a difference between escaping improbable odds, because of well set up plot points, and just for the sake of surviving.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 11:48:50 AM
So you're suggesting no one got out of an improbable situation in the first six seasons.
Tywin showing up just in the nick of time to save the day in Blackwater doesn't ring familiar?
Sansa somehow gets the Knights of the Vale to the Battle of the Bastards just as all seemed lost for Jon and his men?
Sorry, but heroes escaping improbable odds is not an invention of the showrunners, or something that goes against the tenents of the novels.

If you want to compare those situations that's fine.  Those are entire armies that were on the move.  I can easily get past that.  Its realistic.  The undead crashing through the armies, and then totally surrounding singled out main characters and being unable to kill them?  Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on April 30, 2019, 11:54:20 AM
I'm just not seeing this great schism you speak of, or how they've "backtracked" on a lot of what was set up. Could you cite some specific examples of how the showrunners have backtracked? And by that I mean, I don't want examples of where you disagree with their narrative choices ... actual examples of backtracking.

I think I agree with you here Pakuni - I actually don't see a ton of inconsistencies since Benioff and Weiss ran out of source material, but instead a pronounced shift in narrative focus.  But I also think that they have been skating on the reputation that the show earned by staying pretty faithful to the books through its first, what, six years or so? So from that standpoint, I do think there is a valid expectation that the character of the show would remain faithful to that, and criticism is valid when it doesn't. 

The Ringer podcast that Hards linked yesterday made the very good point - what was the last gut punch, shocking death that actually affected the audience? Maybe Oberon? At any rate, it was a death that was pulled from the books. And this isn't a criticism based on body count or bloodlust or just wanting shock purely for shock's sake. Its the confident writing that is willing to do that because it knows where its going. And to me that's whats missing since Benioff and Weiss outpaced the books - they strike me as playing it much safer, and to the extent they're taking risks, they're doing it with battle scenes and visual spectacle. And for folks that thought they had a more personal connection or fidelity to GRRM's material, that's disappointing.  Is that a fair expectation to put on them? Reasonable minds can certainly disagree on that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 12:00:35 PM
I think I agree with you here Pakuni - I actually don't see a ton of inconsistencies since Benioff and Weiss ran out of source material, but instead a pronounced shift in narrative focus.  But I also think that they have been skating on the reputation that the show earned by staying pretty faithful to the books through its first, what, six years or so? So from that standpoint, I do think there is a valid expectation that the character of the show would remain faithful to that, and criticism is valid when it doesn't. 

The Ringer podcast that Hards linked yesterday made the very good point - what was the last gut punch, shocking death that actually affected the audience? Maybe Oberon? At any rate, it was a death that was pulled from the books. And this isn't a criticism based on body count or bloodlust or just wanting shock purely for shock's sake. Its the confident writing that is willing to do that because it knows where its going. And to me that's whats missing since Benioff and Weiss outpaced the books - they strike me as playing it much safer, and to the extent they're taking risks, they're doing it with battle scenes and visual spectacle. And for folks that thought they had a more personal connection or fidelity to GRRM's material, that's disappointing.  Is that a fair expectation to put on them? Reasonable minds can certainly disagree on that.

Did they ever confirm how much of what is happening, if anything, is based on conversations with Martin about what he may have envisioned for certain characters?  I know Benioff and Weiss had that conversation with him. 

In a way, I like that they subverted expectations by not having any major characters die last episode.  I do expect some gut-punches over the next three episodes, however. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on April 30, 2019, 12:01:37 PM
After reading every comment here, I feel so silly to be enjoying this season. I should be screaming about how very, very disappointed and disillusioned I am.

Anyhoo, I haven't read this theory about who ascends to the crown after Sersei meets her doom (though it probably has been espoused by somebody either here or elsewhere):

What if it's Gendry, with Arya as his bad-arse queen? He is Robert's rightful heir, and haven't folks been talking about a royal Baratheon/Stark union forever?

Maybe that can only happen if either Jon/Dany both die or if Jon/Dany agree to it for some reason, or (more likely because I'm not a super-deep-overthinker when it comes to GoT) maybe I'm missing something that would make it impossible.

I know you are using sarcasm, but honestly, don't be. That is what I find weird about arguments on here. People seem to take the stance that:

The show runners handled everything perfectly because I enjoy the show (yeah not mutually exclusive concepts), so criticisms of the show creation are totally unfounded.

It is both possible to love the show, and the books, but find criticism in how it was filmed/written etc. I'm a film buff from the standpoint of the art of filming, writing, scene selection, and music. I also love books from the standpoint of the art of writing.

There are some films I watch, and books I read, for pure entertainment value. I don't care if they have crappy cinematography etc. It is just plain fun. There are other books I read/films I watch, for the pure art of it.

Game of thrones was unique. It was so brilliantly done from an art standpoint, and brilliantly enjoyable from a just plain fun standpoint. And, the aspects were brilliantly intertwined (not easy to do). Usually when you try to intertwine them it does not work well, either the "plain fun" crowd doesn't get the art, or the "plain fun" aspects dilute the scene/art quality. The show has suffered a bit with the latter. A few examples (aided by rewatching).

1. After rewatching, the darkness of this episode was brilliant from an art standpoint. The use of shadows and lighting was very well done, and created a unique and eerie feeling. From a "plain fun" standpoint, it made it harder for a casual audience to follow along.

2. Episode 3 had some of the most amazing use of music in the shows history. Maybe outdoes the use of music in Westworld (where it is also brilliantly used).

3. For the plain fun crowd, Jorah magically showing up, the Winterfell crypt scenes, an army of undead decimating and entire army, but being unable to kill a few isolated and surrounded people, and others distracted from the art aspects. This episode didn't have too much that disrupted from the art, but many previous episodes have.

I continue to love GoT from a great show standpoint, but it has lost some its art value over the past two seasons. Some aspects like the music, still are going strong. The closing music was so brilliant in the last episode (as was the last shot of Melisandre dying). It doesn't make it less enjoyable, but it could still be better. I criticize the elements that could be improved.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 12:08:43 PM
If you want to compare those situations that's fine.  Those are entire armies that were on the move.  I can easily get past that.  Its realistic.  The undead crashing through the armies, and then totally surrounding singled out main characters and being unable to kill them?  Ridiculous.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.
I find a single person escaping a sticky situation far less improbable than entire armies showing up just in the nick of time .... and to the utter surprise of the opposing army, which in no way would have scouts looking out for massive gatherings of troops in close proximity.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 12:22:48 PM
I think I agree with you here Pakuni - I actually don't see a ton of inconsistencies since Benioff and Weiss ran out of source material, but instead a pronounced shift in narrative focus.  But I also think that they have been skating on the reputation that the show earned by staying pretty faithful to the books through its first, what, six years or so? So from that standpoint, I do think there is a valid expectation that the character of the show would remain faithful to that, and criticism is valid when it doesn't. 

The Ringer podcast that Hards linked yesterday made the very good point - what was the last gut punch, shocking death that actually affected the audience? Maybe Oberon? At any rate, it was a death that was pulled from the books. And this isn't a criticism based on body count or bloodlust or just wanting shock purely for shock's sake. Its the confident writing that is willing to do that because it knows where its going. And to me that's whats missing since Benioff and Weiss outpaced the books - they strike me as playing it much safer, and to the extent they're taking risks, they're doing it with battle scenes and visual spectacle. And for folks that thought they had a more personal connection or fidelity to GRRM's material, that's disappointing.  Is that a fair expectation to put on them? Reasonable minds can certainly disagree on that.

Everything you write here is fair and I agree with a bunch of it (though not necessarily that the character of the show has shifted as dramatically as some seem to think).
My main contention here is not that the showrunners are above reproach or criticism, but that much - not all - of the criticism revolves around the same kind of fan service that critics decry, they just want a different kind of fan service. And, also of course, that it's silly to call someone stupid because they enjoyed an episode you didn't.

One point about "gut punch" deaths ... I think outside perhaps Arya and maybe Daenys, there are no eligible candidates for gut punch deaths by this point in the series. Would anyone have been shocked if Jon or Tyrion or Jamie or Brienne died Sunday night? Saddened, sure, but not shocked.  The show has trained its viewers to accept and expect such deaths to the point that they can no longer be truly shocking. To the contrary, viewers speculate endlessly and craft theories and scenarios about who's next, depriving any element of real surprise, and some actually get mad or disappointed or decry the lack of realism when main characters aren't killed off. Hard to feel a gut punch in those circumstances.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
Everything you write here is fair and I agree with a bunch of it (though not necessarily that the character of the show has shifted as dramatically as some seem to think).
My main contention here is not that the showrunners are above reproach or criticism, but that much - not all - of the criticism revolves around the same kind of fan service that critics decry, they just want a different kind of fan service. And, also of course, that it's silly to call someone stupid because they enjoyed an episode you didn't.

One point about "gut punch" deaths ... I think outside perhaps Arya and maybe Daenys, there are no eligible candidates for gut punch deaths by this point in the series. Would anyone have been shocked if Jon or Tyrion or Jamie or Brienne died Sunday night? Saddened, sure, but not shocked.  The show has trained its viewers to accept and except such deaths that they can no longer be truly shocking. To the contrary, viewers speculate endlessly and craft theories and scenarios about who's next, depriving any element of real surprise, and some actually get mad or disappointed or decry the lack of realism when main characters aren't killed off. Hard to feel a gut punch in those circumstances.

I would not have been surprised if Brienne or Tormund had died in the last episode.  I would have been very surprised if Jon, Tyrion, Jamie, Sansa, or even The Hound bit it because of what is to come in the last 3 episodes. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
People seem to take the stance that:

The show runners handled everything perfectly because I enjoy the show (yeah not mutually exclusive concepts), so criticisms of the show creation are totally unfounded.

It is both possible to love the show, and the books, but find criticism in how it was filmed/written etc.

I am arguing nothing different.

Nor have I claimed anybody handled anything "perfectly."

And, while we watched it, my wife and I discussed some of the less believable stuff -- a discussion that was possible because there was so little dialogue in this episode. For example, we thought it ridiculous that the Dothraki were immediately decimated while a zillion zombies couldn't kill Jorah and Dany.

But we also were highly entertained.

Then again, we were/are entertained by "24" and "Stranger Things" and "Ozark" and "Friday Night Lights" and many other quality shows of yesteryear and today that take some leaps of faith.

And, of course, it cracks me up that folks demand "realism" from a show that features good dragons, a bad dragon, people being brought back to life to do good, zombies being brought back to life to do bad, a woman who can survive a fire that burns everybody else to a crisp, a ton of magic, etc.

Hey, I would never say somebody else isn't entitled to his or her view on any of this. All I say is that I'm entertained.

That it apparently bugs more than a few people (not you) that I have the temerity to be entertained by this season also cracks me up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on April 30, 2019, 12:38:38 PM
After reading every comment here, I feel so silly to be enjoying this season. I should be screaming about how very, very disappointed and disillusioned I am.


Couldn’t agree more.

However, even as I think there is a lot of nitpicking going on, I gotta give credit as both sides have put some very well written arguments in this thread. Enjoyable to read.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on April 30, 2019, 12:49:16 PM
There is a difference between fan service (pandering to desires of fans) and being true to the universe created by the author.

But I wholly agree with you regarding the show vs. the book. That's why I really enjoy the show; I do my best to separate them.

Re. Castor babies. That doesn't fit the narrative of the show or the book. If that is the real explanation, it is sloppy writing for the sake of a cool seen where a babies eyes turn blue.

I think that we will still see white walkers/night king. There is an emphasis on balance in the world GRRM created. That applies to balance between the Great Other, and R'hllor. Winter and Summer, Darkness and Light, and Death and Life. Destroying one completely, would suggest there is no longer a balance.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d85d2a72132f66716ee1c844f22f6bdb/tumblr_mma4xf7KGx1rp1jcjo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 12:51:49 PM
I am arguing nothing different.

Nor have I claimed anybody handled anything "perfectly."

And, while we watched it, my wife and I discussed some of the less believable stuff -- a discussion that was possible because there was so little dialogue in this episode. For example, we thought it ridiculous that the Dothraki were immediately decimated while a zillion zombies couldn't kill Jorah and Dany.

But we also were highly entertained.

Then again, we were/are entertained by "24" and "Stranger Things" and "Ozark" and "Friday Night Lights" and many other quality shows of yesteryear and today that take some leaps of faith.

And, of course, it cracks me up that folks demand "realism" from a show that features good dragons, a bad dragon, people being brought back to life to do good, zombies being brought back to life to do bad, a woman who can survive a fire that burns everybody else to a crisp, a ton of magic, etc.

Hey, I would never say somebody else isn't entitled to his or her view on any of this. All I say is that I'm entertained.

That it apparently bugs more than a few people (not you) that I have the temerity to be entertained by this season also cracks me up.

Its as if you just type whatever you're thinking without reading anything anyone else has said.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Its as if you just type whatever you're thinking without reading anything anyone else has said.

If you say so.

Looking forward to Episode 4.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 30, 2019, 01:15:19 PM
I know you are using sarcasm, but honestly, don't be. That is what I find weird about arguments on here. People seem to take the stance that:

The show runners handled everything perfectly because I enjoy the show (yeah not mutually exclusive concepts), so criticisms of the show creation are totally unfounded.

It is both possible to love the show, and the books, but find criticism in how it was filmed/written etc. I'm a film buff from the standpoint of the art of filming, writing, scene selection, and music. I also love books from the standpoint of the art of writing.

There are some films I watch, and books I read, for pure entertainment value. I don't care if they have crappy cinematography etc. It is just plain fun. There are other books I read/films I watch, for the pure art of it.

Game of thrones was unique. It was so brilliantly done from an art standpoint, and brilliantly enjoyable from a just plain fun standpoint. And, the aspects were brilliantly intertwined (not easy to do). Usually when you try to intertwine them it does not work well, either the "plain fun" crowd doesn't get the art, or the "plain fun" aspects dilute the scene/art quality. The show has suffered a bit with the latter. A few examples (aided by rewatching).

1. After rewatching, the darkness of this episode was brilliant from an art standpoint. The use of shadows and lighting was very well done, and created a unique and eerie feeling. From a "plain fun" standpoint, it made it harder for a casual audience to follow along.

2. Episode 3 had some of the most amazing use of music in the shows history. Maybe outdoes the use of music in Westworld (where it is also brilliantly used).

3. For the plain fun crowd, Jorah magically showing up, the Winterfell crypt scenes, an army of undead decimating and entire army, but being unable to kill a few isolated and surrounded people, and others distracted from the art aspects. This episode didn't have too much that disrupted from the art, but many previous episodes have.

I continue to love GoT from a great show standpoint, but it has lost some its art value over the past two seasons. Some aspects like the music, still are going strong. The closing music was so brilliant in the last episode (as was the last shot of Melisandre dying). It doesn't make it less enjoyable, but it could still be better. I criticize the elements that could be improved.

BRAVO.  Spot on.

Part of what made GoT so amazing and "different" was GRRM is a crazy, twisted old loon.  So many of the happy ever after or standard fantasy constructs were gone.  Your fav character in the lead credits of the show could be killed at any moment.  Not even at the end of an episode or season or epic sequence.

The show once it got past the books lost a lot of that.  "Evil" characters vanquished, heroes surviving against all odds.  It got too serving of the viewer IMO.

I still love the show, its appointment viewing for me every week.  Its just different
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 01:44:14 PM
BRAVO.  Spot on.

Part of what made GoT so amazing and "different" was GRRM is a crazy, twisted old loon.  So many of the happy ever after or standard fantasy constructs were gone.  Your fav character in the lead credits of the show could be killed at any moment.  Not even at the end of an episode or season or epic sequence.

The show once it got past the books lost a lot of that.  "Evil" characters vanquished, heroes surviving against all odds.  It got too serving of the viewer IMO.

I still love the show, its appointment viewing for me every week.  Its just different

As it began moving toward the end of the show don't you start expecting some comeuppance for the bad guys?  For example, Ramsey's fate was completely earned.  As much as viewers loved the fact that anyone could die at any time, continuing to lose characters people care about can become tiresome and also begin to lose some of its impact. 

I haven't read the books but from what I understand the most recent ones paled in comparison to his earlier work.  That's just based on what I've read about them, though.   
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on April 30, 2019, 01:44:33 PM
BRAVO.  Spot on.

Part of what made GoT so amazing and "different" was GRRM is a crazy, twisted old loon.  So many of the happy ever after or standard fantasy constructs were gone.  Your fav character in the lead credits of the show could be killed at any moment.  Not even at the end of an episode or season or epic sequence.

The show once it got past the books lost a lot of that.  "Evil" characters vanquished, heroes surviving against all odds.  It got too serving of the viewer IMO.

I still love the show, its appointment viewing for me every week.  Its just different
I'm in the minority, as someone who likes good people to come out OK and bad people to get their comeuppance in my entertainment.  (I'm still pissed 40 or 50 years after first seeing It's a Wonderful Life that Potter didn't get his, SNL notwithstanding).  So I like it better like this.  When Ned Stark died, my first thought was, "Why am I watching this if they're gonna kill all the people I like?"  I really liked Jorah and Lyanna Mormont.

Unrelated quick question.  I thought the Night King could only raise from the dead those whose death he was responsible for.  By that I mean the people/animals he killed himself, or the Whitewalkers he turned killed or any people the Wights killed.  Was that wrong, since he raised long dead Starks?  Or was he or his "killing lineage" responsible for the death of the Starks that did rise?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 01:58:29 PM
I'm in the minority, as someone who likes good people to come out OK and bad people to get their comeuppance in my entertainment.  (I'm still pissed 40 or 50 years after first seeing It's a Wonderful Life that Potter didn't get his, SNL notwithstanding).  So I like it better like this.  When Ned Stark died, my first thought was, "Why am I watching this if they're gonna kill all the people I like?"  I really liked Jorah and Lyanna Mormont.

Unrelated quick question.  I thought the Night King could only raise from the dead those whose death he was responsible for.  By that I mean the people/animals he killed himself, or the Whitewalkers he turned killed or any people the Wights killed.  Was that wrong, since he raised long dead Starks?  Or was he or his "killing lineage" responsible for the death of the Starks that did rise?

I'm definitely not as knowledgeable as some here but my thought is Jon assumed the Night King could only raise the dead whose death he or his army was responsible for because that is what he had seen first hand multiple times.  Clearly, this appeared not to be that case and that he could raise any dead.  Maybe within a certain proximity?  I'd doubt the that the Starks raised in the crypts had all been killed by white walkers. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 30, 2019, 02:24:41 PM
As it began moving toward the end of the show don't you start expecting some comeuppance for the bad guys?  For example, Ramsey's fate was completely earned.  As much as viewers loved the fact that anyone could die at any time, continuing to lose characters people care about can become tiresome and also begin to lose some of its impact. 

I haven't read the books but from what I understand the most recent ones paled in comparison to his earlier work.  That's just based on what I've read about them, though.   

I'm in the minority, as someone who likes good people to come out OK and bad people to get their comeuppance in my entertainment.  (I'm still pissed 40 or 50 years after first seeing It's a Wonderful Life that Potter didn't get his, SNL notwithstanding).  So I like it better like this.  When Ned Stark died, my first thought was, "Why am I watching this if they're gonna kill all the people I like?"  I really liked Jorah and Lyanna Mormont.

I have no issue with "comeuppance".  Ramsey Bolton's downfall was great, and it happened after he took his pound of flesh in gruesome fashion.

And I would have no issue with the Night King being defeated either.  However, you have this glorious, violent, horrific battle that was an absolute massacre and failure for the "good guys" until Arya came like Lebron with the chasedown block.  Yet in that battle you only lost 2 key good guys?  One of whom was a beloved yet minor character (Lyanna) and the other who was more or less destined for a tragic fate defending his love/queen/Khalessi?  It was just all too cute and "wow, amazing how well that worked out".  Just my opinion.  Again, I'd expect it out of most shows, just not GoT 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 30, 2019, 02:31:36 PM
I'm sad I missed this discussion, work has been too busy to jump in.

I have no need for the show to follow the books, they have steadily gone down different paths as the seasons progressed.   That being said, if something is in the show, I believe it should be adhered to.  So for all the foreshadowing, prophecies, and sense that the “real” war is the living vs dead and not the throne… I have to say that how it all came about last night didn’t feel very fulfilling.  A lot of that got ignored in how the NK was killed.   

Arya killing the NK was an excellent decision in some regards because she’s been training for this the entire series.  Unfortunately though, it ignores a lot of plot points building up to it.  This is why I was pretty solidly convinced she would not be the one to kill the NK. 

Also, Melisandre ended up being pretty pointless along the way, except to bring Jon back.   I actually wish she wasn’t the source of Jon came back because then you can say she was a severely flawed character (flawed person, not flawed in the writing) the whole time.  But this would fall into the “fan service” category, which I have no expectations that a show should make decisions based on how I think the story should, so I can easily overlook this part.  The only parts I have trouble overlooking are those that do a 180 on common themes that have held for the last near-decade of shows.

So anyway, I enjoyed the episode…  but it did leave me feeling a bit similar to how I felt after the conclusion of How I Met Your Mother when suddenly in the finale the show wasn’t about how he met their mother….


Final note: I thought the darkness was good choice in terms of cinematography.  It’s not their fault people don’t have their TVs set up properly!   If nothing else, viewers could just jack up the contrast/brightness.  But let this be a lesson next time you buy a tv and get razzle dazzled by the bright shiny tv’s in the store without actually researching what makes a tv good. 

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on April 30, 2019, 02:44:28 PM
Final note: I thought the darkness was good choice in terms of cinematography.  It’s not their fault people don’t have their TVs set up properly!   If nothing else, viewers could just jack up the contrast/brightness.  But let this be a lesson next time you buy a tv and get razzle dazzled by the bright shiny tv’s in the store without actually researching what makes a tv good.

FWIW, the cinematographer has put some of the blame on HBO for the way it compressed the images.
Also, my TV handles blacks well, so I didn't find the episode too dark for my liking.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 30, 2019, 02:46:06 PM
Here is a good article that laments some of what I'm referring to.   It speaks of the changes to some of the most cunning and plot driving characters once the show writers no longer had Martin for source material.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18522060/game-of-thrones-got-season-8-hbo-final-melisandre-tyrion-lannister-long-night-prophecies-tactics

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on April 30, 2019, 02:54:26 PM
Also, Melisandre ended up being pretty pointless along the way, except to bring Jon back.   I actually wish she wasn’t the source of Jon came back because then you can say she was a severely flawed character (flawed person, not flawed in the writing) the whole time.  But this would fall into the “fan service” category, which I have no expectations that a show should make decisions based on how I think the story should, so I can easily overlook this part.  The only parts I have trouble overlooking are those that do a 180 on common themes that have held for the last near-decade of shows.

Melisandre was mostly an exposition character, but she had a great final episode.  If you couldn't figure it out on your own, you now know why Beric kept getting brought back from the dead, and she let everyone know that Arya is the one who was going to take care of NK, which actually was counterproductive for the episode. However, she was the impetus for Arya going after the Night King.  Plus she got the Dothraki sword fire going, and later got the fire moat (or whatever they called it) started when it appeared it would not happen.  Both times she gave the defenders of Winterfell (and the audience) hope, and both times the hope was dashed by two of the best visuals of the episode, the powerful Dothraki army being snuffed out so quickly and the wights lying over the fire to build a passageway through the fire. 

Probably a better final episode than she deserved after what she did to Stannis' daughter.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on April 30, 2019, 03:08:19 PM
Isnt the show ultimately just meant to be entertaining?? So why do so many of you not allow it to be?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on April 30, 2019, 03:40:27 PM
I can just picture some of you in a book club... whenever someone questions why a writer made a decision that they made, suddenly you would bark at them asking why they'd dare question anything about the writing!

 ::)

You can enjoy entertainment while also discussing what you liked/didn't like.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on April 30, 2019, 03:54:51 PM
I can just picture some of you in a book club... whenever someone questions why a writer made a decision that they made, suddenly you would bark at them asking why they'd dare question anything about the writing!

 ::)

You can enjoy entertainment while also discussing what you liked/didn't like.

Agreed.  I also don't think any "critics" here hated it.  Look at it this way, I'm gonna expect more out of a Christopher Nolan movie than I am the newest iteration of Fast and the Furious.  And I LOVE F&F movies.

Lets talk HBO further.  I don't sit and complain about plot holes, implausibilities, or story inconsistencies when I watch Ballers.  Its just a fun, entertaining, not too heavy show that serves its purpose well.

Hell, if the GoT seasons were all written by the writers and not based off books, the complaints would be far less.  The incredible source material and brilliant adaption of it is what made this show into one of the biggest of all time.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2019, 04:00:12 PM
I can just picture some of you in a book club... whenever someone questions why a writer made a decision that they made, suddenly you would bark at them asking why they'd dare question anything about the writing!

 ::)

You can enjoy entertainment while also discussing what you liked/didn't like.

Can't speak for others, but I don't think I "barked" at anybody. Some might even say that the disappointed folks were doing more "barking."

I like discussion and I like different viewpoints, and I agree completely with your last sentence.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on April 30, 2019, 04:18:50 PM
The plan was to use Bran as bait, lure the night king, and kill him.   The plan was accomplished.   They knew intellectually that it could be brutal.   And it was.    But in the end, it followed the plan.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 04:37:04 PM
I can just picture some of you in a book club... whenever someone questions why a writer made a decision that they made, suddenly you would bark at them asking why they'd dare question anything about the writing!

 ::)

You can enjoy entertainment while also discussing what you liked/didn't like.

Agreed.  Sometimes it feels like people watch with the sole focus of nitpicking and complaining, especially if things didn't happen the way they wanted or expected.  Not necessarily referring to anyone here but that just feels so common now. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 08:13:51 PM
Agreed.  Sometimes it feels like people watch with the sole focus of nitpicking and complaining, especially if things didn't happen the way they wanted or expected.  Not necessarily referring to anyone here but that just feels so common now.

lmao.  Whatever dude, I know where you're going with this.  At least your writing isn't as bad as the GOT staff on ep 3.   ;D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 08:17:10 PM
Melisandre was mostly an exposition character, but she had a great final episode.  If you couldn't figure it out on your own, you now know why Beric kept getting brought back from the dead, and she let everyone know that Arya is the one who was going to take care of NK, which actually was counterproductive for the episode. However, she was the impetus for Arya going after the Night King.  Plus she got the Dothraki sword fire going, and later got the fire moat (or whatever they called it) started when it appeared it would not happen.  Both times she gave the defenders of Winterfell (and the audience) hope, and both times the hope was dashed by two of the best visuals of the episode, the powerful Dothraki army being snuffed out so quickly and the wights lying over the fire to build a passageway through the fire. 

Probably a better final episode than she deserved after what she did to Stannis' daughter.

I thought her ending was pretty good.  She had questioned her faith before when she found out that Thoros was able to bring back Beric despite not really seeming like a true believer... Also, her failures with Stannis.  Her entire life was dedicated to this sequence of events, and you could see the doubt in her eyes when she was trying to light the trench and it wasn't working.  That was perfect writing, and great acting as well.  I'm not sure why she decided to walk off and die on her own though... hopefully, it was simply to bring balance, but hey whatever.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 08:20:06 PM
FWIW, the cinematographer has put some of the blame on HBO for the way it compressed the images.
Also, my TV handles blacks well, so I didn't find the episode too dark for my liking.

Same, the only problem I seemed to have was a drop in signal quality from time to time... We were streaming through Amazon's HBO app... so, it could have been that.  For sure wasn't my side.  Honestly, I think it would have been pretty cool to show the final season in theaters every week in addition to HBO doing direct to homes.  Leaks would have been nearly impossible to contain, but I think it would have added even more fanfare for those who don't have a great at home viewing experience.  I can't imagine trying to watch this episode on a 15" laptop screen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 30, 2019, 08:33:05 PM
Here is a good article that laments some of what I'm referring to.   It speaks of the changes to some of the most cunning and plot driving characters once the show writers no longer had Martin for source material.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18522060/game-of-thrones-got-season-8-hbo-final-melisandre-tyrion-lannister-long-night-prophecies-tactics

This is exactly how I feel.  Great read.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on April 30, 2019, 11:31:55 PM
lmao.  Whatever dude, I know where you're going with this.  At least your writing isn't as bad as the GOT staff on ep 3.   ;D

Where am I going with it?

Wasn't intended for you but it was completely predictable you responded to it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 01, 2019, 04:24:31 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bjjjjj/actual_footage_of_the_writers_after_episode_3/
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2019, 07:24:01 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bjjjjj/actual_footage_of_the_writers_after_episode_3/

(https://i.redd.it/rzo2jphxwmv21.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 01, 2019, 09:31:31 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bjm9az/the_great_war_isnt_over_spoilers_extended/
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 03, 2019, 11:42:21 AM
I know that Ghost survived the long night. Although highly unlikely I wonder if Ghost and/or Nymeria kills Cersei as she was the one who ordered their sibling, Summer, executed by Ned Stark. Now that would be justice.

One can fantasize about a fantasy series.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on May 03, 2019, 11:54:59 AM
I know that Ghost survived the long night. Although highly unlikely I wonder if Ghost and/or Nymeria kills Cersei as she was the one who ordered their sibling, Summer, executed by Ned Stark. Now that would be justice.

One can fantasize about a fantasy series.

So not to go too far down the rabbithole on this, but there is/was a fan theory (encouraged by the Arya-Nymeria scene last season) where the wild direwolves and their regular wolf clan are like, their own force to be reckoned with. Most of that projected them to be a sort of natural anti-white walker, balance sort of thing, so I'm not sure if anyone has adapted the theory for them to play a major role in the war in the south for the throne. My guess is not, but who knows. I do know that if Benioff and Weiss were in the business of fan service to MUBurrow, Ghost would spend the next three episodes destroying worlds en route to the iron throne.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 03, 2019, 01:06:19 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bjjjjj/actual_footage_of_the_writers_after_episode_3/

I am crying laughing along with this guy
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2019, 10:54:36 AM
Re-watched the episode last night. A common complaint that I had read was people wondering how Ayra made it from where she was to attack the night king (which I didn't think was that hard to believe considering her skills and that she knew Winterfell inside and out). Another was why did Jon try to take on Viserion at the end, as he obviously would have had no chance.

Upon watching it again it sounds and looks like Jon is yelling "Go!!!". At that point I believe Viserion was guarding the NK. Jon catches sight of Ayra and yells "go" while he distracts the dragon. You can tell Ayra wasn't already hiding because a wisp of hair of one of the NK's commanders blows in the air as she runs by him to attack the NK.

If this in fact what happen it makes more sense to me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 04, 2019, 10:58:59 AM
Re-watched the episode last night. A common complaint that I had read was people wondering how Ayra made it from where she was to attack the night king (which I didn't think was that hard to believe considering her skills and that she knew Winterfell inside and out). Another was why did Jon try to take on Viserion at the end, as he obviously would have had no chance.

Upon watching it again it sounds and looks like Jon is yelling "Go!!!". At that point I believe Viserion was guarding the NK. Jon catches sight of Ayra and yells "go" while he distracts the dragon. You can tell Ayra wasn't already hiding because a wisp of hair of one of the NK's commanders blows in the air as she runs by him to attack the NK.

If this in fact what happen it makes more sense to me.

I've seen this theory. Not sure I believe it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2019, 11:09:06 AM
I've seen this theory. Not sure I believe it.

Is it the whole thing or a portion you don't believe?  Have you rewatched that specific part I'm referring to? 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 04, 2019, 11:36:22 AM
Is it the whole thing or a portion you don't believe?  Have you rewatched that specific part I'm referring to?

I'm also in the camp of he wasn't yelling go. I think it's just fans trying to make sense of a ridiculously stupid scene.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 04, 2019, 11:44:52 AM
Is it the whole thing or a portion you don't believe?  Have you rewatched that specific part I'm referring to?

I don't think the theory was necessary. Arya was in the Great Hall, it is close to the Godswood and multiple ways to get there, that wouldn't necessarily be difficult to navigate through. Especially since the Night King and his Wights attention were all on Bran.

It unnecessarily invokes Jon as the hero. Not to mention it would have been impossible for Jon to know that Arya was even there. That would be more ridiculous than Arya making it to the Godswood.

The one scene that makes no sense, is why was Jorah a quarter mile outside Winterfell, away from the fight, to magically save Dany.

The only rational way to explain some of those aspects, and it would have been cooler if they showed it, would have been if Bran was Warging into specific people to put them in the right places. Way cleaner, and give Bran purposes besides using some crows.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 04, 2019, 11:46:24 AM
I'm also in the camp of he wasn't yelling go. I think it's just fans trying to make sense of a ridiculously stupid scene.

YUUUUUUUUUUUP
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 04, 2019, 12:13:49 PM
I don't think the theory was necessary. Arya was in the Great Hall, it is close to the Godswood and multiple ways to get there, that wouldn't necessarily be difficult to navigate through. Especially since the Night King and his Wights attention were all on Bran.

It unnecessarily invokes Jon as the hero. Not to mention it would have been impossible for Jon to know that Arya was even there. That would be more ridiculous than Arya making it to the Godswood.

The one scene that makes no sense, is why was Jorah a quarter mile outside Winterfell, away from the fight, to magically save Dany.

The only rational way to explain some of those aspects, and it would have been cooler if they showed it, would have been if Bran was Warging into specific people to put them in the right places. Way cleaner, and give Bran purposes besides using some crows.

They clearly showed Jorah earlier in the episode hear Dany's dragon and leave, clearly on the way to find her. Again, completely plausible. Have you watched a second time?

I'm also in the camp of he wasn't yelling go. I think it's just fans trying to make sense of a ridiculously stupid scene.

Quite possibly. Or that's what happened.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 05, 2019, 12:09:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWqI4AJLmY
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 05, 2019, 12:45:22 AM
My guess for the next call back to season 1.

Cersei thinks she has won, by securing the Iron bank to pay the Golden Company. This is similar to Ned thinking he had won by securing Littlefinger to ensure that the Gold Cloaks, would be paid by Ned and the rightful heir.

Ned was betrayed by the purse (Littlefinger) and his golden army turned on him. Likewise, Cersei will be betrayed by the purse (The Iron Bank) and her golden army will turn on her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 05, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
I just watched it again. I don't think Jon yelled go, but I'm not 100% sure. Either way, I liked the episode, and loved the way Arya shattered the Night King.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on May 05, 2019, 12:53:13 AM
Jon Snow, or Dany or whomever.....terrible war planners
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 05, 2019, 12:24:48 PM
stupid twitter leaks  :'(
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 05, 2019, 03:37:38 PM
stupid twitter leaks  :'(

This is why I avoid the twitterverse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 05, 2019, 04:02:57 PM
This is why I avoid the twitterverse.

Basically have seen the whole episode now all because I wanted to check if the episode would leak before the middle of the night over here
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 05, 2019, 06:39:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWqI4AJLmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7m6HP95EDM&feature=youtu.be

Rewrite of episode 3. In general way better. I don't think you need to do the Bran is the Night King angle to improve the story line. It could still end the same way with Bran alive, and him failing to figure out what happened in the past.

Also, Green Eyes...Lannisters...Cersei?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 06, 2019, 04:50:27 AM
Enjoyed it for the most part. It very clear the route they're going for the last two. I suspect Jon will either kill Danny to defeat Cersei or have to kill Danny after Cersei.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 06, 2019, 07:18:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7m6HP95EDM&feature=youtu.be

Rewrite of episode 3. In general way better. I don't think you need to do the Bran is the Night King angle to improve the story line. It could still end the same way with Bran alive, and him failing to figure out what happened in the past.

Also, Green Eyes...Lannisters...Cersei?

I think somehow Jamie is going to die enroute to Cersei, Arya will get his face, and then she will kill Cersei.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: nyg on May 06, 2019, 07:28:24 AM
The Hound and Arya riding on horseback.  He's headed to Kings Landing and she joins him.

Arya: You going to Kings Landing?
Hound: I have some unfinished business
Arya: Me too

The Hound means he wants revenge on his brother, The Mountain
Arya means Cersei.

I believe Arya uses the faceless man thing and is the one who kills Cersei.  Who's face is up for grabs at this point.

As far as who gets the Throne, my new guess is Sansa, if possible.  Dragon Lady has had a rough week, losing Jormant, another dragon, her best friend, men of the north calling Jon the King, Jon Snow's devotion, Sansa's dislike, Varys wanting her out and now she wants to burn down Kings Landing in revenge. The look on her face at the end says it all.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LloydsLegs on May 06, 2019, 08:18:15 AM
I think somehow Jamie is going to die enroute to Cersei, Arya will get his face, and then she will kill Cersei.

I like this
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 06, 2019, 08:38:43 AM
Anybody else notice the Starkbucks cup in the background?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 06, 2019, 10:42:17 AM
Anybody else notice the Starkbucks cup in the background?

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/bbnp1trqx2sbbfsf683e.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 06, 2019, 11:27:13 AM
The Hound and Arya riding on horseback.  He's headed to Kings Landing and she joins him.

Arya: You going to Kings Landing?
Hound: I have some unfinished business
Arya: Me too

The Hound means he wants revenge on his brother, The Mountain
Arya means Cersei.

I believe Arya uses the faceless man thing and is the one who kills Cersei.  Who's face is up for grabs at this point.

As far as who gets the Throne, my new guess is Sansa, if possible.  Dragon Lady has had a rough week, losing Jormant, another dragon, her best friend, men of the north calling Jon the King, Jon Snow's devotion, Sansa's dislike, Varys wanting her out and now she wants to burn down Kings Landing in revenge. The look on her face at the end says it all.

Uhhhh Sansa has zero claim.  If Jon and Dany don't take it or make it, and Cersei dies, rightfully, the crown goes to Gendry Baratheon.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2019, 11:45:20 AM
Uhhhh Sansa has zero claim.  If Jon and Dany don't take it or make it, and Cersei dies, rightfully, the crown goes to Gendry Baratheon.

Gendry has been my sleeper pick for awhile. I had given up hope for awhile....but given that Dany just legitimized him as a Baratheon maybe he gets placed on the throne after everyone else kills each other.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 06, 2019, 11:48:08 AM
Uhhhh Sansa has zero claim.  If Jon and Dany don't take it or make it, and Cersei dies, rightfully, the crown goes to Gendry Baratheon.

I don’t think Cersei had any claim either, she just kinda took it.

I could see Jon having to kill Dany and wanting nothing to do with the throne. Hell, he even may move north of the wall to hang out with the Wildlings and actually be the King of the North.

I could absolutely see Sansa on the throne with her little assassin sister by her side.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 06, 2019, 12:05:48 PM
Hate what sansas become. The starks are about honor and Loyalty and then boom she breaks her path to Jon like 10min later. She does nothing to indicate she cares about her people "were down here because were useless" they've turned her into a mini northern littlefinger scheming to get all the power.

I hope she ends up stuck in the vale nursing her cousin/husband lamenting life
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 06, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
Decent episode.  It still is getting to play out too much like fan fiction.  The Jamie/Brienne path, the cheesy Sam/Gilly scene with Jon.

REALLY didn't like them cutting away from Bran revealing the truth about Jon to Sansa and Arya.  Starks are so close and tight, that revelation has been building for the entire series, so not see the reaction was disappointing.

So Bronn just teleports to the North and sneaks past EVERYONE to kick in the door on Tyrion and Jamie?  Ok.

There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and not taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

Jon and Ghost also made no sense.  In the books Ghost is his shadow.  Literally never leaves his side.  But he goes off into the wilderness with just a Jerimiah Johnson head nod?

That being said.  The ending 15-20 minutes was fantastic.  The dialogue and acting between Tyrion and Ceresi was fantastic.  Seeing her nearly break before returning to ruthlessness is always enjoyable to watch.  Episode 5 is supposed to be HEAVY.

(and yes, I enjoyed the episode.  Its just frustrating how lazy the writing has been at times)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 06, 2019, 12:16:12 PM
Decent episode.  It still is getting to play out too much like fan fiction.  The Jamie/Brienne path, the cheesy Sam/Gilly scene with Jon.

REALLY didn't like them cutting away from Bran revealing the truth about Jon to Sansa and Arya.  Starks are so close and tight, that revelation has been building for the entire series, so not see the reaction was disappointing.

So Bronn just teleports to the North and sneaks past EVERYONE to kick in the door on Tyrion and Jamie?  Ok.

There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

Jon and Ghost also made no sense.  In the books Ghost is his shadow.  Literally never leaves his side.  But he goes off into the wilderness with just a Jerimiah Johnson head nod?

That being said.  The ending 15-20 minutes was fantastic.  The dialogue and acting between Tyrion and Ceresi was fantastic.  Seeing her nearly break before returning to ruthlessness is always enjoyable to watch.  Episode 5 is supposed to be HEAVY.

(and yes, I enjoyed the episode.  Its just frustrating how lazy the writing has been at times)

Tend to agree with these points. Very valid criticism
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 06, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

All of your comments are valid, but particularly this one.  Not scouting is really strange.  How about just having Bran roll his eyes back in his head and send a raven or 10 to see what they are doing in King's Landing to prepare?  Maybe he won't do it and all, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 06, 2019, 01:24:30 PM
All of your comments are valid, but particularly this one.  Not scouting is really strange.  How about just having Bran roll his eyes back in his head and send a raven or 10 to see what they are doing in King's Landing to prepare?  Maybe he won't do it and all, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

The same could be said for 'Battle of the Bastards,' when the Bolton army somehow didn't notice the Knights of the Vale approaching, and Blackwater, when Stannis' army didn't know Tywin and the Tyrells nearby.
But I don't really care.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on May 06, 2019, 01:34:32 PM
Hate what sansas become. The starks are about honor and Loyalty and then boom she breaks her path to Jon like 10min later. She does nothing to indicate she cares about her people "were down here because were useless" they've turned her into a mini northern littlefinger scheming to get all the power.

I hope she ends up stuck in the vale nursing her cousin/husband lamenting life

I think Sansa is the most interesting character left.  More moral ambiguity plays out in her scenes and decisions than the rest of the characters combined, and Sophie Turner has really improved as an actress as the show has worn on.  You could argue that any disloyalty she shows toward Jon shows increased loyalty to the North and her people.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 06, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
For the past season and a half my dragon queen is becoming more obvious that she will not win the game of thrones and has become more and more evil.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2019, 01:44:01 PM
Decent episode.  It still is getting to play out too much like fan fiction.  The Jamie/Brienne path, the cheesy Sam/Gilly scene with Jon.

REALLY didn't like them cutting away from Bran revealing the truth about Jon to Sansa and Arya.  Starks are so close and tight, that revelation has been building for the entire series, so not see the reaction was disappointing.

So Bronn just teleports to the North and sneaks past EVERYONE to kick in the door on Tyrion and Jamie?  Ok.

There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and not taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

Jon and Ghost also made no sense.  In the books Ghost is his shadow.  Literally never leaves his side.  But he goes off into the wilderness with just a Jerimiah Johnson head nod?

That being said.  The ending 15-20 minutes was fantastic.  The dialogue and acting between Tyrion and Ceresi was fantastic.  Seeing her nearly break before returning to ruthlessness is always enjoyable to watch.  Episode 5 is supposed to be HEAVY.

(and yes, I enjoyed the episode.  Its just frustrating how lazy the writing has been at times)

I have a lot of similar feelings about the episode. I hate how quickly and clumsily they are wrapping up some of the pieces. But I loved that last scene,  easily my favorite of this season
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 06, 2019, 01:47:26 PM
I think Sansa is the most interesting character left.  More moral ambiguity plays out in her scenes and decisions than the rest of the characters combined, and Sophie Turner has really improved as an actress as the show has worn on.  You could argue that any disloyalty she shows toward Jon shows increased loyalty to the North and her people.

I agree regarding some of the moral ambiguity and definitely regarding her as an actress. But her apathy towards the white walkers was obnoxious (though evidently valid) and seemed disloyal to her subjects. Again to me it focuses on the concept of what each house is known for, the starks are loyal and honorable, she is not. Which in the end is a very small flaw, but enough to make me dislike her character compared to say her mother.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 06, 2019, 02:07:07 PM
Decent episode.  It still is getting to play out too much like fan fiction.  The Jamie/Brienne path, the cheesy Sam/Gilly scene with Jon.

REALLY didn't like them cutting away from Bran revealing the truth about Jon to Sansa and Arya.  Starks are so close and tight, that revelation has been building for the entire series, so not see the reaction was disappointing.

So Bronn just teleports to the North and sneaks past EVERYONE to kick in the door on Tyrion and Jamie?  Ok.

There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and not taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

Jon and Ghost also made no sense.  In the books Ghost is his shadow.  Literally never leaves his side.  But he goes off into the wilderness with just a Jerimiah Johnson head nod?

That being said.  The ending 15-20 minutes was fantastic.  The dialogue and acting between Tyrion and Ceresi was fantastic.  Seeing her nearly break before returning to ruthlessness is always enjoyable to watch.  Episode 5 is supposed to be HEAVY.

(and yes, I enjoyed the episode.  Its just frustrating how lazy the writing has been at times)

Decent is how I would rate this as well. Decent for most shows would be fine. Decent for this show is disappointing.

Agree the last 20 minutes were great.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: BM1090 on May 06, 2019, 03:37:54 PM
I still think Jaime kills Cersai.

He outlined everything he's done for Cersai. He described himself as hateful. I think he was telling himself all he's done for Cersai and she STILL gave the order to kill him. He's going to kill her.

He left Brienne in the North to protect her and didn't tell her his plan because she'd never agree to let him go alone. Similar to Tyrion yelling at Shae because she wouldn't leave him unless it was clear he was betraying her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 06, 2019, 06:33:21 PM
ayyyyy  it was really really bad again!  Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it.  I bet you guys like fireworks and glitter too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on May 06, 2019, 07:35:56 PM
ayyyyy  it was really really bad again!  Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it.  I bet you guys like fireworks and glitter too.

Hated last night’s episode
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 06, 2019, 08:58:01 PM
I think somehow Jamie is going to die enroute to Cersei, Arya will get his face, and then she will kill Cersei.

That's what I think is going to happen too.

Also, regarding this episode. Meh. Others have highlighted many of the points. Particularly, the twist (Euron), and how unrealistic it was.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 06, 2019, 09:07:35 PM
Hate what sansas become. The starks are about honor and Loyalty and then boom she breaks her path to Jon like 10min later. She does nothing to indicate she cares about her people "were down here because were useless" they've turned her into a mini northern littlefinger scheming to get all the power.

I hope she ends up stuck in the vale nursing her cousin/husband lamenting life

Sansa turned on her family in the first season (or first book: Third Eddard chapter), where she refused to tell the truth regarding what happened with Arya and Joffrey. She was trying to protect her chance at the throne then, and she still is now. Lady symbolically died, because she chose power over family (Starks).

Sansa let her people die in the battle of the bastards, by not securing the Knights of the Vale earlier, so she could protect her possible power.

She was directly in character in this episode. She is a mini Cersei.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 06, 2019, 10:45:36 PM
Decent episode.  It still is getting to play out too much like fan fiction.  The Jamie/Brienne path, the cheesy Sam/Gilly scene with Jon.

REALLY didn't like them cutting away from Bran revealing the truth about Jon to Sansa and Arya.  Starks are so close and tight, that revelation has been building for the entire series, so not see the reaction was disappointing.

So Bronn just teleports to the North and sneaks past EVERYONE to kick in the door on Tyrion and Jamie?  Ok.

There were no scouting ships?  Just Dany and the Dragons, who again are flying stupidly low and not taking any advantage of being high in the sky?  Also, these magical ships of Euron are getting a bit much.  Neither Dragon or Dany noticed A WHOLE FLEET of ships until they shoot a perfect laser into a moving target.  I get they are developing dragon-killing crossbows, but the first two shots were laser guided missiles, come on.  And how come every Navy in the kingdom isn't using them if they explode ships like that?

Jon and Ghost also made no sense.  In the books Ghost is his shadow.  Literally never leaves his side.  But he goes off into the wilderness with just a Jerimiah Johnson head nod?

That being said.  The ending 15-20 minutes was fantastic.  The dialogue and acting between Tyrion and Ceresi was fantastic.  Seeing her nearly break before returning to ruthlessness is always enjoyable to watch.  Episode 5 is supposed to be HEAVY.

(and yes, I enjoyed the episode.  Its just frustrating how lazy the writing has been at times)

Many reasonable points here. I'll add something that I thought while watching:

Cersei has absolutely no decency. Why wouldn't she have just had her minions rain arrows down on Tyrion, Dany, Jon, etc.? They were sitting ducks. Would have ended the war before it began (which of course is why she didn't).

Like you, despite some warts, I nevertheless enjoyed the episode. Others who didn't, that's cool. Not sure why they don't watch something "good" instead.

As for who kills Cersei, I really like the Arya with Jaime's face idea. Still, part of me thinks, "Arya killed the Night King and now she's gonna kill Cersei, too? What is this, Game of Arya?"

And I've been saying Gendry is my darkhorse candidate for the throne.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 06, 2019, 10:59:31 PM

Cersei has absolutely no decency. Why wouldn't she have just had her minions rain arrows down on Tyrion, Dany, Jon, etc.? They were sitting ducks. Would have ended the war before it began (which of course is why she didn't).


My thought too. The character of Cersei would have killed them all right there. War over. She don't give a damn.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2019, 11:06:54 PM
Tyrion came into range of the arrows. The rest of the party didn't.....though those scorpions on the wall....
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 06, 2019, 11:10:38 PM
Many reasonable points here. I'll add something that I thought while watching:

Cersei has absolutely no decency. Why wouldn't she have just had her minions rain arrows down on Tyrion, Dany, Jon, etc.? They were sitting ducks. Would have ended the war before it began (which of course is why she didn't).

Like you, despite some warts, I nevertheless enjoyed the episode. Others who didn't, that's cool. Not sure why they don't watch something "good" instead.

As for who kills Cersei, I really like the Arya with Jaime's face idea. Still, part of me thinks, "Arya killed the Night King and now she's gonna kill Cersei, too? What is this, Game of Arya?"

And I've been saying Gendry is my darkhorse candidate for the throne.

Because you can't unwatch something.  Episode two was amazing.  I'm not going to just say screw it after this long.  I'm riding this crap wave right into Malibu baby.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 06, 2019, 11:16:10 PM
Tyrion came into range of the arrows. The rest of the party didn't.....though those scorpions on the wall....

Don't you remember the battle of the bastards. A good bowman can hit a running individual from ~100 yards, with a single kill shot.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 07, 2019, 05:06:40 AM
Tyrion came into range of the arrows. The rest of the party didn't.....though those scorpions on the wall....

We know Drogon can fly. I wonder if he can swim under water to take out all the ships.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 07, 2019, 07:35:05 AM
Don't you remember the battle of the bastards. A good bowman can hit a running individual from ~100 yards, with a single kill shot.

Well it depends on the bow and the bowman. Supposedly English longbows were able to reach ~300 yards.

But that doesn't matter. The implication was that they were out of range of the archers, except for Tyrion.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2019, 08:20:51 AM
Whether or not they were out of range of arrows, they were in range of the Scorpions, and we saw what they could do.

Simple fact is Cersei didn't kill them for the same reasons why the Evil Villain didn't kill 007 the zillion times he could have, or why Jack Bauer didn't die 1,000 times or why the Joker didn't just shoot Batman in the head, or ...

Because if you do that, the show ceases to exist.

Because you can't unwatch something.  Episode two was amazing.  I'm not going to just say screw it after this long.  I'm riding this crap wave right into Malibu baby.

Fair enough, Hards. I hope you keep "enjoying" it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 07, 2019, 09:05:24 AM
ayyyyy  it was really really bad again!  Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it.  I bet you guys like fireworks and glitter too.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 09:13:19 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif)

Another low effort comment.  Not surprising that you seem to like the writer's low effort as well!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 09:15:50 AM
Whether or not they were out of range of arrows, they were in range of the Scorpions, and we saw what they could do.

Simple fact is Cersei didn't kill them for the same reasons why the Evil Villain didn't kill 007 the zillion times he could have, or why Jack Bauer didn't die 1,000 times or why the Joker didn't just shoot Batman in the head, or ...

Because if you do that, the show ceases to exist.

Fair enough, Hards. I hope you keep "enjoying" it.

Dude, its okay to continue to watch a program that you find major problems with.  I don't watch TV to shut down my brain.  If I did, then I'd be watching reality TV, karaoke TV, et al. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 07, 2019, 09:18:00 AM
ayyyyy  it was really really bad again!  Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it.  I bet you guys like fireworks and glitter too.

Don't hate on fireworks brah. Who didn't love shooting bottlerockets at each other when they were teens?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 07, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
ayyyyy  it was really really bad again!  Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it.  I bet you guys like fireworks and glitter too.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/37cc293b1667d8ce6cf2ac96a204492b/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 07, 2019, 09:44:44 AM
Another low effort comment.  Not surprising that you seem to like the writer's low effort as well!

I didn't say I was a big fan of the episode, did I?  The fact that you think you're the arbiter of what is good and what isn't is amusing to me.  Ultimately, it makes you sound like a douche. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 09:46:21 AM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/37cc293b1667d8ce6cf2ac96a204492b/tenor.gif)

haha well played.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 09:46:44 AM
I didn't say I was a big fan of the episode, did I?  The fact that you think you're the arbiter of what is good and what isn't is amusing to me.  Ultimately, it makes you sound like a douche.

Ah, so everyone's but my opinion matters.

Got it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 07, 2019, 09:52:40 AM
Ah, so everyone's but my opinion matters.

Got it.

Not at all.  You're perfectly free to think most of this season has sucked and share that opinion.  But you've been a condescending turd when it comes to your comments on people who don't share your views on the quality of some of the episodes or regarding some of the specific criticisms (see fireworks and glitter comment above).
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 07, 2019, 09:53:06 AM
Ah, so everyone's but my opinion matters.

Got it.

No different than saying "Love the people throwing in their two cents that they liked it."
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
Not at all.  You're perfectly free to think most of this season has sucked and share that opinion.  But you've been a condescending turd when it comes to your comments on people who don't share your views on the quality of some of the episodes or regarding some of the specific criticisms (see fireworks and glitter comment above).

Ah, so again, your opinion matters, but mine doesn't because its mean spirited.

Got it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 07, 2019, 10:18:04 AM
Ah, so again, your opinion matters, but mine doesn't because its mean spirited.

Got it.

Incorrect. 

Are you incapable of expressing your opinion without being a d-bag about it? 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 10:21:50 AM
Incorrect. 

Are you incapable of expressing your opinion without being a d-bag about it?

Actuallllllllllly, it's factually correct.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2019, 10:26:42 AM
Dude, its okay to continue to watch a program that you find major problems with.  I don't watch TV to shut down my brain.  If I did, then I'd be watching reality TV, karaoke TV, et al.

Dude, I have never seen one second of any reality TV show ever.

I happen to like GoT this season. And, if you have read any of my posts, you see that I do realize there are plot holes, silly situations, etc. But I still like the story, still like most characters, and still get enjoyment out of the series. Is it as good as previous seasons? Some episodes yes, some no. Then again, previous seasons had episodes one could say the same about.

And I do know how it is to feel one has to keep watching just to see what happens. I might be the only person in America who watched the entire season of John From Cincinnati. And I forced myself to watch the final season of House of Cards, too. I'll never get that time back.

Having said that, GoT at its worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst moments is 1,000 times better than John From Cincinnati and the final season of House of Cards.

It's OK if you disagree, but everybody who disagrees with you isn't automatically "wrong." You're just another dude or dudette with an opinion, as the rest of us are.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 07, 2019, 10:37:33 AM
Dude, I have never seen one second of any reality TV show ever.

I happen to like GoT this season. And, if you have read any of my posts, you see that I do realize there are plot holes, silly situations, etc. But I still like the story, still like most characters, and still get enjoyment out of the series. Is it as good as previous seasons? Some episodes yes, some no. Then again, previous seasons had episodes one could say the same about.

And I do know how it is to feel one has to keep watching just to see what happens. I might be the only person in America who watched the entire season of John From Cincinnati. And I forced myself to watch the final season of House of Cards, too. I'll never get that time back.

Having said that, GoT at its worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst moments is 1,000 times better than John From Cincinnati and the final season of House of Cards.

It's OK if you disagree, but everybody who disagrees with you isn't automatically "wrong." You're just another dude or dudette with an opinion, as the rest of us are.

Agree completely, Mike.

I, too, have never watched a second of reality TV. Even though I know a contestant on The Voice this year, I still couldn't stoop that low.

Second, there are actually three people who watched the entirety of John From Cincinnati - you, me, and my wife.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 07, 2019, 10:45:15 AM

Second, there are actually three people who watched the entirety of John From Cincinnati - you, me, and my wife.

Make that four.
Though, I confess, I was hate-watching it by the end.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2019, 10:51:10 AM
Make that four.
Though, I confess, I was hate-watching it by the end.

Agree completely, Mike.

I, too, have never watched a second of reality TV. Even though I know a contestant on The Voice this year, I still couldn't stoop that low.

Second, there are actually three people who watched the entirety of John From Cincinnati - you, me, and my wife.

Maybe there's a national club where we could discuss this horrible addiction we had at the time.

JFC Anonymous?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 11:03:38 AM
Dude, I have never seen one second of any reality TV show ever.

I happen to like GoT this season. And, if you have read any of my posts, you see that I do realize there are plot holes, silly situations, etc. But I still like the story, still like most characters, and still get enjoyment out of the series. Is it as good as previous seasons? Some episodes yes, some no. Then again, previous seasons had episodes one could say the same about.

And I do know how it is to feel one has to keep watching just to see what happens. I might be the only person in America who watched the entire season of John From Cincinnati. And I forced myself to watch the final season of House of Cards, too. I'll never get that time back.

Having said that, GoT at its worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst, worst moments is 1,000 times better than John From Cincinnati and the final season of House of Cards.

It's OK if you disagree, but everybody who disagrees with you isn't automatically "wrong." You're just another dude or dudette with an opinion, as the rest of us are.

I don't disagree with you here.  And I enjoy it for what it is.  But its a far cry from being good.

fwiw, I never watched the final season of HoC, that show fell off a cliff for me.  ASOIAF is my favorite book series, and is probably my favorite TV show.  But to watch the hack job that is this season is and then see people call it good?  It makes me question if we were watching the same show.  Because I assume that anyone who can think critically would see this for what it is.  An utter disappointment.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 07, 2019, 11:14:14 AM
I don't disagree with you here.  And I enjoy it for what it is.  But its a far cry from being good.

fwiw, I never watched the final season of HoC, that show fell off a cliff for me.  ASOIAF is my favorite book series, and is probably my favorite TV show.  But to watch the hack job that is this season is and then see people call it good?  It makes me question if we were watching the same show.  Because I assume that anyone who can think critically would see this for what it is.  An utter disappointment.

I'm fully agreeing with you on this whole thing.  I've invested all this time in the books and the shows, and this is what we get?  I don't hate Martin for capitalizing on the TV money, but it's too bad for all of us he didn't wait until he had more of the books finished so the show didn't have to clumsily and speedily wrap up what has quickly turned out to be a poop-storm of a final season.

I won't stop watching it either.  And I mainly just complain to my show-watching friends and my non-watching wife, who is totally paying attention to my rants on Monday mornings.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2019, 11:28:21 AM
I don't disagree with you here.  And I enjoy it for what it is.  But its a far cry from being good.

fwiw, I never watched the final season of HoC, that show fell off a cliff for me.  ASOIAF is my favorite book series, and is probably my favorite TV show.  But to watch the hack job that is this season is and then see people call it good?  It makes me question if we were watching the same show.  Because I assume that anyone who can think critically would see this for what it is.  An utter disappointment.

Never read one word in the books, so they are as irrelevant to me as a book about housebreaking a rhino would be. I'd submit that you and other readers of the books are significantly influenced by them as you judge the show, but that's only my opinion.

I also enjoy it for what it is: entertainment. I am entertained, and I like the show. You are free to be not entertained, although you must be at least somewhat entertained if you "enjoy" it at all.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 12:02:27 PM
Never read one word in the books, so they are as irrelevant to me as a book about housebreaking a rhino would be. I'd submit that you and other readers of the books are significantly influenced by them as you judge the show, but that's only my opinion.

I also enjoy it for what it is: entertainment. I am entertained, and I like the show. You are free to be not entertained, although you must be at least somewhat entertained if you "enjoy" it at all.

I submit to you that I am not influenced by the books.  I'm influenced by how well the first half of the series was written and crafted.  Now that's out the window.

You're a weird dude to enjoy the show descending from intelligent coherent plot driven drama to the poorly cobbled together tropes that we're getting now.  I'm not sure why you're defensive of it all.  Its okay to watch the show and defend it or not defend it.  I just find it hard to believe that you really think this is good compared to what we're used to.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Stronghold on May 07, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MixedPerfectGrebe-size_restricted.gif)

I am a show-watcher only and haven't ready any of the books.  I'll admit I have been a little disappointed in this season compared to the previous few.  I think more than anything they don't have enough episodes/time left to put together an ending that the show deserves.  Too many things rushed, left unanswered, or confusing.

EDIT: Also just got thinking to myself, how would I view this season differently so far if I knew it wasn't the last one and we only have 2 episodes left?  Probably would be more satisfied knowing there is more to come.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on May 07, 2019, 01:09:53 PM
Not sure why there is all the hate for reality TV, MTV's The Challenge is like America's 5th national sport and Vanderpump Rules is quite simply transcendent TV.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 07, 2019, 01:20:27 PM
I don't disagree with you here.  And I enjoy it for what it is.  But its a far cry from being good.

fwiw, I never watched the final season of HoC, that show fell off a cliff for me.  ASOIAF is my favorite book series, and is probably my favorite TV show.  But to watch the hack job that is this season is and then see people call it good?  It makes me question if we were watching the same show.  Because I assume that anyone who can think critically would see this for what it is.  An utter disappointment.

Apparently you are more intelligent than others here. You obviously subscribe to that notion.

Although, for you to call someone a "weird dude" because they don't agree with your nauseatingly repeated opinion on a TV show, your ignorance is on full display.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 07, 2019, 01:30:03 PM
Actuallllllllllly, it's factually correct.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/wYyTHMm50f4Dm/giphy.gif)

Apparently you are more intelligent than others here. You obviously subscribe to that notion.

Although, for you to call someone a "weird dude" because they don't agree with your nauseatingly repeated opinion on a TV show, your ignorance is on full display.

Visual approximation of Hards at a party:

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AmusedSlimyAfricanclawedfrog-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 07, 2019, 02:23:02 PM
I have a lot of similar feelings about the episode. I hate how quickly and clumsily they are wrapping up some of the pieces. But I loved that last scene,  easily my favorite of this season


I second this second!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 07, 2019, 03:31:34 PM
Never read one word in the books, so they are as irrelevant to me as a book about housebreaking a rhino would be. I'd submit that you and other readers of the books are significantly influenced by them as you judge the show, but that's only my opinion.

I also enjoy it for what it is: entertainment. I am entertained, and I like the show. You are free to be not entertained, although you must be at least somewhat entertained if you "enjoy" it at all.

I think Hards' point is that this show was so much more than just entertainment for its first 4+ seasons. The fact that that this season is merely entertainment says a lot about how far it has fallen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 07, 2019, 04:43:47 PM
I think Hards' point is that this show was so much more than just entertainment for its first 4+ seasons. The fact that that this season is merely entertainment says a lot about how far it has fallen.

HOW DARE YOU.  You must enjoy it fully or you're a snobby blowhard!

Take away the "enjoyment" factor.  I can't fathom how someone who has watched the whole series can't notice or perceive the change in writing, plots, and tone.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 07, 2019, 08:40:11 PM
I think Hards' point is that this show was so much more than just entertainment for its first 4+ seasons. The fact that that this season is merely entertainment says a lot about how far it has fallen.

It's a freaking TV show. Entertainment is exactly what it is, all it ever was and all it ever will be.
The novels? Same.
We can argue until we're blue in the face about the value and quality of said entertainment, but it's still just entertainment. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 07, 2019, 09:35:02 PM
The show is not as good this season as it was in prior seasons. That happens in TV all the time, including most of the best shows ever to grace the screen.

Some shows really fall into an abyss and are not worth watching, and I stop watching most of those (but, as I said, I continued watching some, much to my regret). I happen to think GoT has not fallen anywhere near that level; indeed, I still like it for what it is.

Others are free to think whatever they want about particular episodes, this season, the last few seasons or the entire series. I'm not the one calling others foolish for disagreeing with me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 07, 2019, 10:46:24 PM
Apparently you are more intelligent than others here. You obviously subscribe to that notion.

Although, for you to call someone a "weird dude" because they don't agree with your nauseatingly repeated opinion on a TV show, your ignorance is on full display.

This is so damn cute.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 08, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
The show is not as good this season as it was in prior seasons. That happens in TV all the time, including most of the best shows ever to grace the screen.

Some shows really fall into an abyss and are not worth watching, and I stop watching most of those (but, as I said, I continued watching some, much to my regret). I happen to think GoT has not fallen anywhere near that level; indeed, I still like it for what it is.

Whats funny is that the GoT "critics" (me included) are basically just saying the bolded.  All are still watching, all are still enjoying the show.  I was disappointed in the Battle of Winterfell, and my points about the past episode were well expressed, but I still CANT WAIT for Sunday.  Its a testament to the show that its "fallen off" a bit, and upset some very invested fans, but their excitement for the show is still at a fever pitch.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 08, 2019, 10:27:34 AM
It's a freaking TV show. Entertainment is exactly what it is, all it ever was and all it ever will be.
The novels? Same.
We can argue until we're blue in the face about the value and quality of said entertainment, but it's still just entertainment.

I would argue some TV shows, movies, and books, rise to the level of art, not merely entertainment. I put the early seasons of Game of Thrones in that category. There is a difference. This becomes a greater philosophical discussion on where the line between art and entertainment lies. But most people wouldn't argue that there is a line SOMEWHERE.

I still enjoy the show. I haven't stopped watching. But there has been a real qualitative change in the last couple seasons.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
Scripts of 5 and 6 leaked. People are freaking out saying the ending is absolutely terrible. Haven't read them and don't plan to.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 08, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
Aaaaand ... I'm out of this thread until after the series ends.

I don't want to start debating how bad episodes 5 and 6 are until they've actually, you know, aired. And I don't want any spoilers.

The fact that extreme fanbois might be saying the ending sucks makes me think it will be great - ha!

See y'all in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 08, 2019, 12:04:57 PM
Scripts of 5 and 6 leaked. People are freaking out saying the ending is absolutely terrible. Haven't read them and don't plan to.

Has there ever been a popular and/or critically acclaimed TV series that's had an ending that hasn't provoked that kind of a response.
People are still big mad about The Sopranos and Seinfeld (and Dexter and MASH and Lost and Roseanne and ....)

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 08, 2019, 12:25:07 PM
Has there ever been a popular and/or critically acclaimed TV series that's had an ending that hasn't provoked that kind of a response.
People are still big mad about The Sopranos and Seinfeld (and Dexter and MASH and Lost and Roseanne and ....)

I think the problem is that when you have a hot TV show, its in everyone's best interests (writers, network, etc...) to keep the money train rolling.  And too often it leads to running out of ideas/stretching things thin.  If you have a definitive end to the story, it usually works out.  But if you dont, or you're made to write past it, you get an issue.

Sopranos ending was fine and made sense, people just didn't like the ambiguity.  Seinfeld was just weird.  Dexter's final season was horrible leading up to that nonsense.  I think endings can get plenty of buffer of opinion if it makes sense/fits the tenor of the narrative or show.  Its when it doesn't that people get upset.  People were fine with The Wire, with Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire

All my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 08, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
I think the problem is that when you have a hot TV show, its in everyone's best interests (writers, network, etc...) to keep the money train rolling.  And too often it leads to running out of ideas/stretching things thin.  If you have a definitive end to the story, it usually works out.  But if you dont, or you're made to write past it, you get an issue.

Sopranos ending was fine and made sense, people just didn't like the ambiguity.  Seinfeld was just weird.  Dexter's final season was horrible leading up to that nonsense.  I think endings can get plenty of buffer of opinion if it makes sense/fits the tenor of the narrative or show.  Its when it doesn't that people get upset.  People were fine with The Wire, with Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire

All my opinion of course.

Breaking bad, The Sopranos, and The Wire are the gold standard imo.

Boardwalk Empire was such a great show but HBO canceled and the last season was clearly rushed.  Having said that, they did an alright job with what they had to tie together.

I wont be reading spoilers for th last episodes but I will leave this here.  Its absolutely not a spoiler, but an indication of how the actors seem to feel.

https://streamable.com/tanow
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2019, 01:17:49 PM
Has there ever been a popular and/or critically acclaimed TV series that's had an ending that hasn't provoked that kind of a response.
People are still big mad about The Sopranos and Seinfeld (and Dexter and MASH and Lost and Roseanne and ....)

The office salvaged their last god awful seasons with an incredible ending. I liked the sopranos ending. And as mentioned breaking bad seems to be the gold standard for everything.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 08, 2019, 01:24:44 PM
Parks and Rec also had a great final season/finale.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 08, 2019, 01:31:15 PM
The office salvaged their last god awful seasons with an incredible ending. I liked the sopranos ending. And as mentioned breaking bad seems to be the gold standard for everything.

And yet some people were not at all happy with the ending of Breaking Bad.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-closure-happy-breaking-bad-finale

My point being, no matter how GoT ends, plenty will be unhappy because ti's not the ending they wanted. And that's fine, too.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 08, 2019, 01:37:31 PM
And yet some people were not at all happy with the ending of Breaking Bad.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-closure-happy-breaking-bad-finale

My point being, no matter how GoT ends, plenty will be unhappy because ti's not the ending they wanted. And that's fine, too.

I have such a hard time understanding how anyone could be dissatisfied with Breaking Bad's ending.  It was outstanding. 

As mentioned earlier, Parks & Rec did a really nice job as well. 

I feel like Cheers did a good job too but it's been so long since I watched it I could just not be remembering correctly. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 08, 2019, 01:52:16 PM
I have to say,  I actually liked dexter's ending, probably the only person who does. Last season was terrible and the way they ended things with the sister was awful but the very ending is exactly how I thought the show needed to end.

Breaking Bads ending, like most of breaking bad IMHO, is overrated.

Best ending to a network show that I can think of is House. Show quality dipped terribly in the last season but they wrapped it up perfectly.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 08, 2019, 02:26:28 PM
I have to say,  I actually liked dexter's ending, probably the only person who does. Last season was terrible and the way they ended things with the sister was awful but the very ending is exactly how I thought the show needed to end.

Breaking Bads ending, like most of breaking bad IMHO, is overrated.

Best ending to a network show that I can think of is House. Show quality dipped terribly in the last season but they wrapped it up perfectly.

GTFOH in regards to Breaking Bad. 

As for Dexter, the last season was disappointing but the very end itself in terms of his fate wasn't horrible.

I would love them to do one more season to make up for season 8. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 08, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
I wont be reading spoilers for th last episodes but I will leave this here.  Its absolutely not a spoiler, but an indication of how the actors seem to feel.

https://streamable.com/tanow

I was trying to find the specific clip I saw on Twitter, but that works.  Emilia's reaction, Nathalie Emmanuel trying to sort of save it, and Jacob Anderson not even attempting to salvage and just burst out laughing kind of tells the story.

But then again, it could mean nothing.  They clearly are attached to their characters and the story, and came to know it through the books like many here.  So the ending could be great and perfectly fine, but not what they envisioned, like some here, so it is a bit of a let down.  Who knows.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 08, 2019, 03:00:27 PM
I have to say,  I actually liked dexter's ending, probably the only person who does. Last season was terrible and the way they ended things with the sister was awful but the very ending is exactly how I thought the show needed to end.

Breaking Bads ending, like most of breaking bad IMHO, is overrated.

Best ending to a network show that I can think of is House. Show quality dipped terribly in the last season but they wrapped it up perfectly.

I’m with you TAMU, never could get into Breaking Bad.

I gave it many, many attempts but after watching like one or two episodes at a time I stopped and didn’t come back to it for another 6 months. Rinse and repeat and I finally gave up in the middle of season two.

Point being, you’re never going to make everyone happy with a TV show. It’s just never gonna happen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on May 08, 2019, 03:02:44 PM
Six Feet Under had the best series ender of all time
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 08, 2019, 03:15:58 PM
I’m with you TAMU, never could get into Breaking Bad.

I gave it many, many attempts but after watching like one or two episodes at a time I stopped and didn’t come back to it for another 6 months. Rinse and repeat and I finally gave up in the middle of season two.

Point being, you’re never going to make everyone happy with a TV show. It’s just never gonna happen.

Breaking Bad just kept getting better and more intense.  You gave up too soon, IMO.  Maybe it just wasn't for you. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 08, 2019, 03:21:43 PM
I enjoyed Breaking Bad. Quality show. I just never understood the level of reverence some have for it. And that's fine! Different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 08, 2019, 04:27:26 PM
The Scrubs main ending was great as well. Before they destroyed it with that awful medical school spinoff
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 08, 2019, 05:46:11 PM
I have such a hard time understanding how anyone could be dissatisfied with Breaking Bad's ending.  It was outstanding. 

As mentioned earlier, Parks & Rec did a really nice job as well. 

I feel like Cheers did a good job too but it's been so long since I watched it I could just not be remembering correctly.

Agreed on all points.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 08, 2019, 06:07:54 PM
The Scrubs main ending was great as well. Before they destroyed it with that awful medical school spinoff

Agreed - Scrubs did a great job prior to that 9th season.

At times it seems perhaps good comedies have an easier job putting together a satisfying ending than a good drama. Maybe that's stating the obvious.

Agreed on all points.

We do have some common ground!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 09, 2019, 08:46:09 AM
And yet some people were not at all happy with the ending of Breaking Bad.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-closure-happy-breaking-bad-finale

My point being, no matter how GoT ends, plenty will be unhappy because ti's not the ending they wanted. And that's fine, too.

Maybe some people weren't happy with it, but the overwhelming majority were. I was and everyone who I knew watched the show also was.

That is NOT the case for this season of GoT.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 09, 2019, 10:22:31 AM
I don’t want to nerd out too much here… but a show that is similar to GoT in that the drama, politics, and character building supersedes the sci-fi/fantasy aspect and is very watchable by people who are not into sci-fi/fantasy, is Battlestar Galactica.  Not only that, but the epic story line built throughout the seasons is not only nearly as good as GoT, but it wrapped up and concluded in a very satisfying way.    If GoT seasons 1-6 were a 10 out of 10, I’d give that show a 8.5 or 9 out of 10 and recommend it to anyone who isn’t overly deterred by the sci-fi aspects.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 09, 2019, 11:58:13 AM
I have to say the last 4 episodes have been disappointing. For 6 of the last 7 seasons the plot really dragged; now all of a sudden the plot is on maximum warp drive. I am pretty sure that we won't see Cersei eliminated in this next episode, cannot say the same for any other major character.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 09, 2019, 06:59:15 PM
I don’t want to nerd out too much here… but a show that is similar to GoT in that the drama, politics, and character building supersedes the sci-fi/fantasy aspect and is very watchable by people who are not into sci-fi/fantasy, is Battlestar Galactica.  Not only that, but the epic story line built throughout the seasons is not only nearly as good as GoT, but it wrapped up and concluded in a very satisfying way.    If GoT seasons 1-6 were a 10 out of 10, I’d give that show a 8.5 or 9 out of 10 and recommend it to anyone who isn’t overly deterred by the sci-fi aspects.

Never watched it, but heard good things.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on May 10, 2019, 07:32:09 AM
I don’t want to nerd out too much here… but a show that is similar to GoT in that the drama, politics, and character building supersedes the sci-fi/fantasy aspect and is very watchable by people who are not into sci-fi/fantasy, is Battlestar Galactica.  Not only that, but the epic story line built throughout the seasons is not only nearly as good as GoT, but it wrapped up and concluded in a very satisfying way.    If GoT seasons 1-6 were a 10 out of 10, I’d give that show a 8.5 or 9 out of 10 and recommend it to anyone who isn’t overly deterred by the sci-fi aspects.

Could not agree with this more.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 12, 2019, 09:36:30 PM
This was the best of the 5 episodes so far. Sure some will not agree. IMO Dany had no choice from her perspective. Cersei met her match and did not expect Dany to burn the city to the ground, though I was somewhat disappointed that she and Jamie met their demise crushed by a pile of rubble. Will the mad queen triumph?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 12, 2019, 10:49:26 PM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

This sums up where I'm at.

Also, Jaime and cersei's ending? Gtfo
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 12, 2019, 10:54:20 PM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

This sums up where I'm at.

Also, Jaime and cersei's ending? Gtfo

That’s how Cersei woulda wanted it though, not giving anybody the satisfaction to see her killed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 12, 2019, 11:19:27 PM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

This sums up where I'm at.

Also, Jaime and cersei's ending? Gtfo

I think that's about where I'm at too.

I'm honestly not sure what to take away from this episode. The episode itself was well done enough, some minor flubs. I think the problem I have with it, is that it seems a bit in opposition dialogue and scenes this season. Seems like the directors of individual episodes didn't communicate well amongst each other, so it isn't particularly seamless.

Part of that is also them moving too fast, to not allow major character changes.

Not sure how they wrap this up in one episode.

An interesting parallel though, Queen Nymeria fled her destroyed empire after a Targaryan conquered them and burned it down. She took refugees to Dorne, and conquered herself an empire. Could Arya ride off on her horse to return with her own army.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on May 12, 2019, 11:41:41 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yr7n0u3qzO9nG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2019, 12:24:06 AM


Arya: I have to go see a man about a horse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 12:53:26 AM
Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2019, 01:03:12 AM
Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?

My problem is with Euron's previous success with the scorpions. This episode was much more realistic in that regard.

Agreed on Jaime. Makes sense with original character. Throw out the Brienne scene and this could be reasonable.

Agreed on the golden company. They should have had them switch sides, because the Iron bank betrayed Cersei to support the legitimate heir, Jon.

All that is problems with previous episodes this season, this one, in a vacuum was very well done.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 01:16:58 AM
My problem is with Euron's previous success with the scorpions. This episode was much more realistic in that regard.

Agreed on Jaime. Makes sense with original character. Throw out the Brienne scene and this could be reasonable.

Agreed on the golden company. They should have had them switch sides, because the Iron bank betrayed Cersei to support the legitimate heir, Jon.

All that is problems with previous episodes this season, this one, in a vacuum was very well done.

Yeah I worded my issues with Euron poorly. I agree this was better for portraying it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2019, 06:23:06 AM
The past couple episodes have felt to me like Benioff & Weiss got the gameplan from GRRM and are checking off the major plot points without any of the subtext that makes the books so good. Varys as the traitor and perfumed seneschal, arguably the third treason for love of the common folk, was decently done but could've been built up more. The Golden Company felt like a total throwaway, they show up for five minutes to say they are here, a few weeks later they show up on the battlefield to die. Dany's heel turn...I guess it was coming but unraveling her in the span of a couple weeks after building her as a savior character for years was too fast.

Two things I did really like. Jamie fulfilling the Valanquar prophecy not by murdering Cersei but by holding her lovingly was awesome. It was the kind of misdirection and inexact prophecy that makes Martin so good. While everyone was focused on whether it would be Tyrion, Jamie, or Arya with one of their faces, it was really just a hug amidst the ashes. Second, the pale horse for Arya. Just as unexpected as the non-literal Valanquar prophecy was the literal Quaithe prophecy.

One thing I've loved about this season is that it's convinced me if GRRM ever does finish this, it will be really good.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 13, 2019, 07:25:17 AM
Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?

This. 7.5 seasons of a full character arc/change, undone in 10 minutes
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 08:29:26 AM
D+ episode, and I think that is being generous. Par for the course this season.

First, the positive: Visually there were some interesting/fun things: Drogon coming out of the night to execute Varys. The battle/dragon fire had some visually stunning work. The Clegane battle was cool (although meaningless from a storytelling perspective).

The Negative: Just about everything else. The whole Dany "mad queen" evolution was rushed, from a storytelling perspective. I know what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't believable. The war was won. There was no reason to destroy HER capital city. Sure, toast Cersei and the Red Keep, but nothing else made sense.

It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

Jamie acted completely opposite to his character development.

Also out of character for Arya to go all that way and then just turn around without killing Cersei.

The outcome was completely predictable, but how we got there made no sense. Worst of both worlds from a storytelling perspective.

The only positive is that GRRM has a huge opportunity to tell this story in a much more satisfying way.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 13, 2019, 08:44:28 AM
If he lives that long.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 09:01:01 AM
D+ episode, and I think that is being generous. Par for the course this season.

First, the positive: Visually there were some interesting/fun things: Drogon coming out of the night to execute Varys. The battle/dragon fire had some visually stunning work. The Clegane battle was cool (although meaningless from a storytelling perspective).

The Negative: Just about everything else. The whole Dany "mad queen" evolution was rushed, from a storytelling perspective. I know what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't believable. The war was won. There was no reason to destroy HER capital city. Sure, toast Cersei and the Red Keep, but nothing else made sense.

It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

Jamie acted completely opposite to his character development.

Also out of character for Arya to go all that way and then just turn around without killing Cersei.

The outcome was completely predictable, but how we got there made no sense. Worst of both worlds from a storytelling perspective.

The only positive is that GRRM has a huge opportunity to tell this story in a much more satisfying way.

Forgot about this. I'm just done with Arya in general, she keeps going from super badass to terrified and desperate for help. Either make her Brienne level brave or just show it all to be a front. Back in bravos she's running and terrified of the Waif, then turns into a badass. During the battle for winterfell, she's kicking ass then suddenly hits her head and is terrified of everything. Then is a ninja, then suddenly need the hound to save her. Last night she's all calm and sneaks into the red keep, then shes terrified and cowering during the battle.

Just done very poorly 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 13, 2019, 09:03:40 AM
I thought this was the best episode in the last two seasons.  The betrayals, the way Cercei died in Jamie's arms to fulfill that prophecy in a way that we never saw coming, the utter destruction and how they portrayed it to the dismay of the "good" characters, the Clegane bowl ending the way it did, Arya w/ the pale horse.  I thought it was done with the city bells rang, but that Dany let loose was horrifying in a way that Martin has gotten me before, aka with surprise and disgust. 

Regarding Jamie...

Some of you are saying Jamie's story arc was undone, but I actually feel like this was the completion-come-full-circle for him.  This basically shows us that maybe he never "changed" during the series, he was ALWAYS an honorable man who did the right thing except when it involved his sister. 

When he was the king slayer to the mad king, people thought he did it b/c he saw the war was lost and wanted to be on the winning side, when really it was to save the city from destruction by wildfire.  We saw his honor in his oath to Catelyn Stark, his protection of Brienne when she was going to be violated by The Brave Companions, his desire to sac Riverrun without bloodshed, and many other times. 

Everything "Evil" he's done, it has been because of Cercei.  So even when we see "good" Jamie, it was ultimately his sister that he felt compelled to go back to in order to help her.  It was his major flaw and it was what did him in.  That is fitting since it was Season 1 episode 1 when we first saw his love for Cercei make him do evil things (pushing bran out window).

Dragon talk:
As far as the Iron Fleet not taking out Drogon, that is easy.  Last time they were able to get the kill shot because of surprise.  This time, Dany had surprise, the sun, and the fact she was riding him to make things end very different.  It was always the case that the dragons were more capable in battle if they had a rider to direct them.  Not to mention, trying to shoot a flying thing (plane in real life, dragons in GoT) out of the sky with a slow moving piece of artillery is much harder at low/close proximity than further away.  Once Dany/Drogon got in tight, it was all over.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 13, 2019, 09:07:58 AM
Forgot about this. I'm just done with Arya in general, she keeps going from super badass to terrified and desperate for help. Either make her Brienne level brave or just show it all to be a front. Back in bravos she's running and terrified of the Waif, then turns into a badass. During the battle for winterfell, she's kicking ass then suddenly hits her head and is terrified of everything. Then is a ninja, then suddenly need the hound to save her. Last night she's all calm and sneaks into the red keep, then shes terrified and cowering during the battle.

Just done very poorly

I think this all keeps very consistant.  She never did quite become a faceless "man" like she was being trained to become.  If she had, she would no longer care about anything having to do with Arya Stark's life and she would have no name.

But also, the reason she snapped to is because of The Hound saying to her "You don't want to be like me" that made her realize that the badass Arya she had become was going to ultimately destroy her.  She snaps out of it and wants to live again... not to mention have feelings again (thus wanting to help the mom and her girl and being so emotional at the devastation). 

She has her skills, she'll use them when needed... she's just learning how to be this new Arya/Faceless combination person.  Hopefully without the need for a peptalk from The Hound, the Red Woman, or anyone else going forward.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 13, 2019, 09:13:46 AM
OH!  Forgot a major part!

The Mad Queen:
People have been speculating that Dany would become the mad Queen like her father.  I think last night proved it... in her rage against Cercei and Jon making her choose the "feared" leader path instead of loved, she fulfill that role that people feared she'd become.  If you doubt it, look as the city burned and the random hidden cache's of wildfire left from the Mad King days... as the city burned it set off the wildfire exactly how the Mad King tried to do before Jamie killed him to stop it. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 09:20:46 AM
I think this all keeps very consistant.  She never did quite become a faceless "man" like she was being trained to become.  If she had, she would no longer care about anything having to do with Arya Stark's life and she would have no name.

But also, the reason she snapped to is because of The Hound saying to her "You don't want to be like me" that made her realize that the badass Arya she had become was going to ultimately destroy her.  She snaps out of it and wants to live again... not to mention have feelings again (thus wanting to help the mom and her girl and being so emotional at the devastation). 

She has her skills, she'll use them when needed... she's just learning how to be this new Arya/Faceless combination person.  Hopefully without the need for a peptalk from The Hound, the Red Woman, or anyone else going forward.

See I disagree, there's a line they could put her at and I see that line as Brienne. But instead of putting her as a leveled out line of bravery that still has emotions they have her playing hopscotch back and forth over that line.

To your earlier point on Jaimie that's a fair theory and it's possible that some of my frustrations are the writing like suddenly hes claiming he doesn't care about any of the citizens? His big honest confession to Brienne was saying he killed Aerys because of all the potential innocent lives that'd be lost.

Last point but if they have Arya kill Danny I'm gonna be pissed. They changed Jon's arc and gave that kill to Arya purely for the point of subversion (which GRRM alluded to in an interview) so if they suddenly give Arya the kill again like the white mare prophecy is indicating I'm going to be pissed.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 09:36:49 AM
OH!  Forgot a major part!

The Mad Queen:
People have been speculating that Dany would become the mad Queen like her father.  I think last night proved it... in her rage against Cercei and Jon making her choose the "feared" leader path instead of loved, she fulfill that role that people feared she'd become.  If you doubt it, look as the city burned and the random hidden cache's of wildfire left from the Mad King days... as the city burned it set off the wildfire exactly how the Mad King tried to do before Jamie killed him to stop it.

It's not like this was foreshadowed or anything.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/uHccXYrGRIFNe/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Regarding Jamie...

Some of you are saying Jamie's story arc was undone, but I actually feel like this was the completion-come-full-circle for him.  This basically shows us that maybe he never "changed" during the series, he was ALWAYS an honorable man who did the right thing except when it involved his sister. 

I think you're 100 percent correct here. This didn't at all undo Jamie's character arc. It fit his character arc perfectly. He's always made bad choices when it comes to Cersei. The only thing that's changed at the end is that he became self-aware of that. Self-awareness does not equal change.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 09:40:36 AM
Its not that the mad queen thing wasn't foreshadowed or that even the result is so preposterous...its just how lazy and bad the storytelling was that got us there
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 13, 2019, 09:59:20 AM
Its not that the mad queen thing wasn't foreshadowed or that even the result is so preposterous...its just how lazy and bad the storytelling was that got us there
I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.

Minor quibble when you think about it.  No matter what they did a big chunk of the fan base wasn't going to like it.  It's just that they unnecessarily boxed themselves into a corner by making the last season so short.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 13, 2019, 10:18:17 AM
I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.

Minor quibble when you think about it.  No matter what they did a big chunk of the fan base wasn't going to like it.  It's just that they unnecessarily boxed themselves into a corner by making the last season so short.

Agreed. They didn’t need 15 episodes to ruin all this. Just 10 seems like it would have sufficed, and saved us all a bunch of time.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 10:23:22 AM
I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.t.

While I agree the season seems rushed  (well, because it is), if you really think Danaerys becoming a mad queen was sudden, you haven't been paying attention. The GIF I posted above is, I believe, from season 2.
- also in season 2, she promised to "lay waste to our enemies and burn their cities to the ground" (Sound familiar?)
- she torched the Khals
- she fed some leaders of Mereen to her dragons and had to be talked out of doing worse
- she torched the Tarlys
- and the show has hit us over the head to make sure we understand there's at least a 50-50 chance any Targaryen would be mad
I'm sure there are other examples, but the point is this was not a sudden or unexpected transformation.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 10:23:56 AM
Agreed. They didn’t need 15 episodes to ruin all this. Just 10 seems like it would have sufficed, and saved us all a bunch of time.

Sucks that you're being forced to watch.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 10:34:40 AM
FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 13, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

The smartest and most cunning character in the series, always a step ahead, always calculated.  Was already escaping when Tyrion killed Tywin.  Had an extensive spy network spanning continents and knew more than the rulers themselves...this dude telegraphed his choice and openly explained it and talked about it in broad daylight around tons of people?  All while living down the hall from the ruler he was essentially "betraying"?  I know he's not a Tier 1 character, but his downfall was such uncharacteristic lazy BS.

Tons of other stuff was problematic but others have explained it well.

Qyburn's death was LOL funny though.  Good riddance you creepy dead A**hole
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 10:38:29 AM
FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.

This, there's no conceivable reason I can think of that anyone would turn down the practically unlimited budget and chance to make a full season for this and last season. They should've handed the show off if they felt that they weren't able to devote their full attention to it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 13, 2019, 10:43:52 AM
Are they going to be handling the spin offs?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 13, 2019, 10:43:59 AM
This, there's no conceivable reason I can think of that anyone would turn down the practically unlimited budget and chance to make a full season for this and last season. They should've handed the show off if they felt that they weren't able to devote their full attention to it.

They wanted to move on to make their stupid Confederate show that nobody is clamoring for
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 10:52:02 AM
They wanted to move on to make their stupid Confederate show that nobody is clamoring for

that and star wars. just seems weird because how many writers are there thatd kill for a show of this size with unlimited budget?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 13, 2019, 10:55:04 AM
Sucks that you're being forced to watch.

Oh spare me. I said it before I would watch and complain. Ignore me. I’m not attacking your stance or opinions.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 11:00:12 AM
Are they going to be handling the spin offs?

I sincerely hope not.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on May 13, 2019, 11:01:22 AM

Arya: I have to go see a man about a horse.

This is how I tell people that I need to use the restroom on the golf course.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 13, 2019, 11:03:45 AM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/f19a05ee2eb7e7cb81a933ae34f4ca25/tumblr_preocuTgou1wbznk8_540.jpg)



(https://i.redd.it/t2p3bx9jekx21.jpg)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2019, 11:27:55 AM
While I agree the season seems rushed  (well, because it is), if you really think Danaerys becoming a mad queen was sudden, you haven't been paying attention. The GIF I posted above is, I believe, from season 2.
- also in season 2, she promised to "lay waste to our enemies and burn their cities to the ground" (Sound familiar?)
- she torched the Khals
- she fed some leaders of Mereen to her dragons and had to be talked out of doing worse
- she torched the Tarlys
- and the show has hit us over the head to make sure we understand there's at least a 50-50 chance any Targaryen would be mad
I'm sure there are other examples, but the point is this was not a sudden or unexpected transformation.

The difference for me is that this was mass innocents. Torching the Khals, the leaders of Mereen, and the Tarlys, even Varys, those were all either executions or the leaders of her enemies. If she did the same to Cersei, no problem. But there was nothing in her character to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands (conservatively) of commoners in King's Landing after the battle was won. That's not a slight turn, that's a 720° Exorcist level turn. If they wanted to foreshadow wanton destruction, they could've done it over the years, this was completely unprecedented.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 13, 2019, 11:38:30 AM
This. 7.5 seasons of a full character arc/change, undone in 10 minutes

Maybe....

but, the show started with Jamie and Cersei, in a tower by themselves, setting the entire chain of events in place. It is fitting that they die together  in a tunnel - by themselves.

They started and ended the same way - sneaking away.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 11:41:00 AM
The difference for me is that this was mass innocents. Torching the Khals, the leaders of Mereen, and the Tarlys, even Varys, those were all either executions or the leaders of her enemies. If she did the same to Cersei, no problem. But there was nothing in her character to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands (conservatively) of commoners in King's Landing after the battle was won. That's not a slight turn, that's a 720° Exorcist level turn. If they wanted to foreshadow wanton destruction, they could've done it over the years, this was completely unprecedented.

Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 13, 2019, 11:47:59 AM
Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

Who in this season put all of that on hold to save the realms of men.  Then, to steal from someone else, channels a hypothetical Truman dropping a 3rd nuke on Japan for funsies.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2019, 11:53:31 AM
So what are people's predictions for the final episode?

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 11:59:53 AM
So what are people's predictions for the final episode?

  • Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.
  • Arya will try to kill Dany and fail. Dany will execute her. I feel Arya has to die because she's become the hero of the story and she's probably the one character whose death no one is expecting.
  • Jon will lose it with Arya's death; she was always his favorite of the Starks. He will kill Dany, then refuse the throne.
  • With no Targaryean heir, Gendry Baratheon, now the lawful heir of Robert, will take the throne.
  • Sansa will die. Not sure how or by whose hand, but I think she dies. That's why in the pre-season trailer, Jon's statue was of an old man while Sansa & Arya still looked young.

Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 12:19:28 PM


  • Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.
How does Dany even know Jamie was freed? He is dead.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 13, 2019, 12:22:39 PM
Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.

can I ask why you're placing faith in the White horse prophecy when it wasn't in the show and they've shown previously that they're more than willing to toss prophecy out the door?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 13, 2019, 12:28:10 PM
can I ask why you're placing faith in the White horse prophecy when it wasn't in the show and they've shown previously that they're more than willing to toss prophecy out the door?
George RR Martin didn't invent the symbolism behind the appearance of a white horse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 13, 2019, 12:30:05 PM
Arya takes the throne.

Jon is King in the North.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 13, 2019, 12:37:59 PM
FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.

I'm sure a lot of the actors were ready to move on from it as well. Who knows, maybe they were lucky to even get 6 more episodes from everyone.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2019, 02:03:38 PM
Arya kills Dany.
Browns eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. And a white horse.

Little finger also had Green eyes (Green-grey described in books), so she may have already fulfilled that part of the prophecy.

And in the books Dany has violet eyes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2019, 02:07:18 PM
Respectfully disagree. I recall instances in which she was willing to burn cities to the ground, only to be talked out of it.
From Season 2:
“We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”
From Season 6:
“I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.”

She's always had this streak in her, but the people she trusted around her were able to talk her out of such extreme violence. Now, with her best friend killed in front of her, feeling betrayed by Jon and increasingly aware that she'll never be loved and welcomed in Westeros as a benevolent emancipator, she breaks and the madness comes out.

In both cases, it's talking about armies, soldiers, and leaders. I get the "burn" & "dirt" references regarding cities, but this was a hard, hard turn from the rhetoric of the past.

Here's the thing...this would have been much better done if developed over seasons. If the back and forth between her and her advisors was more contentious. I have the feeling that in the books, if GRRM ever finishes them, it will be far better developed. I like the climaxes characters have had this season, I like the way they have wrapped up storylines, but I do feel the way they got to those conclusions could have been done better, and likely will done better in the books.

To me, justifying how they got there for Dany is a lot of revisionist history. This isn't Arya spending 6 years training to be the perfect killer and then killing the Night King, that makes total sense, this is someone spending years saying they would be different, would avoid tyranny, would break the wheel, & as soon as the opportunity presents itself, becoming the exact opposite of that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 13, 2019, 02:09:39 PM
How does Dany even know Jamie was freed? He is dead.

She will know Jamie was freed by his obvious lack of being present, and she will know Tyrion did it because her guards will know Tyrion was the last person who visited him. There's no other explanation for why Jamie isn't still a prisoner.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 13, 2019, 02:25:43 PM
She will know Jamie was freed by his obvious lack of being present, and she will know Tyrion did it because her guards will know Tyrion was the last person who visited him. There's no other explanation for why Jamie isn't still a prisoner.

She straight-up told Tyrion they caught him trying to get out of Winterfell, too.  It took her 5 seconds to put together that Jon told Sansa, who told Tyrion, who told Varys, that Jon is Aegon Targaryen.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 13, 2019, 05:15:54 PM
Maybe....

but, the show started with Jamie and Cersei, in a tower by themselves, setting the entire chain of events in place. It is fitting that they die together  in a tunnel - by themselves.

They started and ended the same way - sneaking away.

Yes, there is a cyclical aspect to this. But creating a scene simply for a callback to season 1, when it is inconsistent with the current story is not good writing. It is bad writing and bad scene design.

This would have been a perfectly fine ending if:

1. Jamie goes North to fight for the living, as promised.
2. After the battle is over, he does not make overtures towards Brienne. Instead he says he needs to return to his family. He sneaks out, or is allowed to escape by Tyrion.
3. Scene plays out as before.

As it was done, they created a redemption arc for Jamie. He abandoned Cersei entirely, recognizing her as evil. He completes this redemption by joining the most pure and honorable person on the show, Brienne. He then just abandons all of this, because his sister might actually have a chance to win??? It doesn't work.

This was done for one reason, and one reason only, executives at HBO, who listen to Q scores, insisted a Jamie/Brienne love scene would be good for ratings. They then insisted it get written into the scripts. It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

That is why the later seasons have declined in quality (in terms of writing), and part of the reason why D&D were ready for all of this to end.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 13, 2019, 05:28:22 PM
It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

Can't wait for all that play up and dialogue and him likely appearing nowhere in the final 2 episodes
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 13, 2019, 05:42:28 PM
Mostly, I agree with Brew's assessment.  I think the director did the best with what he was given for a script.  I also have to wonder how much was left on the editing room floor.

I think a better story than Rhaegal getting shot down by the Iron fleet last week, he could have been taken out this week by one of the scorpions... this would make Dany's descent into madness more instant and completely believable.  The way it played out was rather stupid, but hey, whatever.

All in all, I think we can see the rough outline of what GRRM told D&D.  Also, I'm sure he will do a far superior job of wrapping it up than these two doofusses.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 13, 2019, 06:51:40 PM
Yes, there is a cyclical aspect to this. But creating a scene simply for a callback to season 1, when it is inconsistent with the current story is not good writing. It is bad writing and bad scene design.

This would have been a perfectly fine ending if:

1. Jamie goes North to fight for the living, as promised.
2. After the battle is over, he does not make overtures towards Brienne. Instead he says he needs to return to his family. He sneaks out, or is allowed to escape by Tyrion.
3. Scene plays out as before.

As it was done, they created a redemption arc for Jamie. He abandoned Cersei entirely, recognizing her as evil. He completes this redemption by joining the most pure and honorable person on the show, Brienne. He then just abandons all of this, because his sister might actually have a chance to win??? It doesn't work.

This was done for one reason, and one reason only, executives at HBO, who listen to Q scores, insisted a Jamie/Brienne love scene would be good for ratings. They then insisted it get written into the scripts. It is the same reason for the weird Bronn scenes. Nothing to do with the actual story lines.

That is why the later seasons have declined in quality (in terms of writing), and part of the reason why D&D were ready for all of this to end.

Jamie didn't go back because he thought Cersei might have a chance to win.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 13, 2019, 07:36:15 PM
I heard an interesting description/interpretation of this season (and maybe last):

This is the video wiki of the story. Hitting the overtones/big entries/battles. Giving the cliff notes, but leaving out all the details and the background/plot on how we got to these "high notes". They skim over a lot of time/inteludes

Much like Nikolai's quote: "We’re used to having a whole season to get to a point. Now suddenly, a lot of things happen very quickly."
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 13, 2019, 07:50:32 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/f19a05ee2eb7e7cb81a933ae34f4ca25/tumblr_preocuTgou1wbznk8_540.jpg)



(https://i.redd.it/t2p3bx9jekx21.jpg)

The Bob Newhart ending?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: real chili 83 on May 13, 2019, 08:24:06 PM
You guys have a lot of free time.

Love the show.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 13, 2019, 11:35:46 PM
Finally watched it. Loved it. Yes it was rushed. Whole damn season was rushed. That's what happens when you try to wrap months of events in like 8 hours. Another visually beautiful episode with lots of great moment. I loved the scenes with Arya trying to escape King's Landing.

Don't get the criticism of Jaime, this is exactly how his character would go. The Clegane Bowl was solid though fan servicey. Dany's decent into madness was a tad rushed, though not as rushed as people think. This has always been a part of here. She's just had Jorah, Missendre, and others to talk her out of it in the past. She lost too much so as this side of her grew stronger, there was no one to counterbalance it. It doesn't make sense that she would nuke the city? Of course not! Madness doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 14, 2019, 01:32:57 AM
Finally watched it. Loved it. Yes it was rushed. Whole damn season was rushed. That's what happens when you try to wrap months of events in like 8 hours. Another visually beautiful episode with lots of great moment. I loved the scenes with Arya trying to escape King's Landing.

Don't get the criticism of Jaime, this is exactly how his character would go. The Clegane Bowl was solid though fan servicey. Dany's decent into madness was a tad rushed, though not as rushed as people think. This has always been a part of here. She's just had Jorah, Missendre, and others to talk her out of it in the past. She lost too much so as this side of her grew stronger, there was no one to counterbalance it. It doesn't make sense that she would nuke the city? Of course not! Madness doesn't make sense.


Agree with everything you say.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mu03eng on May 14, 2019, 08:42:10 AM
How much of the rushed feel to the season is the ability to film more than 6 episodes in real life. They took, what, 2 years off to pull this together and a lot of the stars of the show are stars in real life these days and have other projects going on.

The show producers have another HBO show plus the next Star Wars trilogy
Sophie Turner made Dark Phoenix and has other movie projects in the works not to mention whatever Jonas Bro she's married to
Peter Dinklage is making movies
Gwendoyln Christy was involved in Ep VII and VIII
Nathalie Emmanuel made several movies in 2017/2018
etc

Make a show of this scale, with this many actors involved has got to be a logistical nightmare. Factor in that HBO could only be so patient before bringing it back for the final season and I think you see what happens when artistic vision has to compromise with real life logistics.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 14, 2019, 11:32:51 AM
Don't get the criticism of Jaime, this is exactly how his character would go. The Clegane Bowl was solid though fan servicey. Dany's decent into madness was a tad rushed, though not as rushed as people think. This has always been a part of here. She's just had Jorah, Missendre, and others to talk her out of it in the past. She lost too much so as this side of her grew stronger, there was no one to counterbalance it. It doesn't make sense that she would nuke the city? Of course not! Madness doesn't make sense.

The point with Jamie is they wasted a bunch of time and narrative on the relationship with Brienne, which was largely fan service in execution and then abruptly swung it around and wrapped up the story with him and Cersie in that weak climax.  His overall arc throughout the story was fine, but again the execution was sloppy.

And Dany, it was just all too abrupt and fast.  She preached fire and brimstone about her enemies and her armies.  She was always sympathetic to the commoners.  Her leveling the Red Keep to prove a point would make sense, just a switch flipping which lead to her committing mass genocide was a bit absurd, and again, sloppy.

HBO offered them 10 episodes.  The schedules, logistics, whatever would not have precluded another 4 episodes.  Another season?  Sure.  But they could have gotten another 4 episodes to give themselves time and narrative buffer, but D&D were clearly over GoT and ready to go f*** up Star Wars and their weird Confederate project.  Their interviews after each episode clearly show it.  They couldn't not come off worse.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2019, 11:58:55 AM
Jamie is a hero with a fatal flaw. Not all heroes overcome their fatal flaw. Jamie succumbed to his.

Agreed Danys descent was rushed.  Would have liked it to see it be a more gradual maddening. Doesn't mean I don't love where it ended up.

D&D may have been over GoT. I don't know how you would get that from the post show interviews. That's akin to criticizing Wojo for the huddle cams.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 14, 2019, 12:10:58 PM
And Dany, it was just all too abrupt and fast.  She preached fire and brimstone about her enemies and her armies.  She was always sympathetic to the commoners.  Her leveling the Red Keep to prove a point would make sense, just a switch flipping which lead to her committing mass genocide was a bit absurd, and again, sloppy.

And yet there are multiple instances in the show dating back to at least season 2 (and in the books, as well, from my understanding) of her expressing a desire to destroy entire cities, only to be talked out of it by her trusted advisors. Now, with what advisors she had either dead (Missandei, Ser Jorah) or, in her mind, having betrayed and failed her (Jon, Tyrion), there was no one there to talk her off the ledge, so to speak.
Criticism that the show has been rushed is completely fair and accurate. But arguing that Dany turning mad queen was out of nowhere is just wrong.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 14, 2019, 01:01:33 PM
And yet there are multiple instances in the show dating back to at least season 2 (and in the books, as well, from my understanding) of her expressing a desire to destroy entire cities, only to be talked out of it by her trusted advisors. Now, with what advisors she had either dead (Missandei, Ser Jorah) or, in her mind, having betrayed and failed her (Jon, Tyrion), there was no one there to talk her off the ledge, so to speak.
Criticism that the show has been rushed is completely fair and accurate. But arguing that Dany turning mad queen was out of nowhere is just wrong.

To be fair, I never said it was out of nowhere, clearly they hinted at it.  It was just zero to 100.  And the trigger for it, within the episode, just seemed weak.

D&D may have been over GoT. I don't know how you would get that from the post show interviews. That's akin to criticizing Wojo for the huddle cams.

No, its akin to a post game presser hearing there was no justification for seemingly baffling in game adjustments.  "Coach, why did you keep Markus on the bench despite the lead slipping away when he was the one who helped you build it?  Ehh, idk, I kind of forgot about who was on my bench."

Their justification for the baffling scene where Dany on her dragons are flying and get sniped was "Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet".  I mean seriously?  There was something from this week that was absurd too, I'm blanking at the moment
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 14, 2019, 01:03:50 PM
The point with Jamie is they wasted a bunch of time and narrative on the relationship with Brienne, which was largely fan service in execution and then abruptly swung it around and wrapped up the story with him and Cersie in that weak climax.  His overall arc throughout the story was fine, but again the execution was sloppy.



Disagree. It was consistent with the rest of his arc. He was a decent man except when it came to Cersei. In the very first episode, he was willing to murder a kid for her. When she was not involved, he was a different person.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 14, 2019, 01:16:28 PM
The biggest loser Sunday night was anyone who named their daughter Khaleesi or Daenerys.
Quote
Data from the Social Security Administration show that since the HBO version of "Game of Thrones" first aired in 2011, at least 3,500 American girls have been named either 'Daenerys' or 'Khaleesi' (one of the character's royal titles) in her honor.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 14, 2019, 03:50:57 PM
Why is Dany the mad queen? I would have done the very same thing to prevent my enemy from having the ability to make war. Was Lincoln the mad President after Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground started his march to the sea burning and destroying everything in his path. Was Truman the Mad President ordering the atomic bombs on Japan in hopes of ending the war sooner?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 14, 2019, 03:54:00 PM
Why is Dany the mad queen? I would have done the very same thing to prevent my enemy from having the ability to make war. Was Lincoln the mad President after Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground started his march to the sea burning and destroying everything in his path. Was Truman the Mad President ordering the atomic bombs on Japan in hopes of ending the war sooner?

Analogy doesn't fit.
Japan hadn't surrendered before Truman dropped the bomb, nor had General Lee before Sherman's march.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 14, 2019, 05:19:41 PM
Just saw a story The Simpsons predicted one of the final episodes two years ago.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 15, 2019, 12:16:23 PM
OK, which if you is behind this?

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
What I don't get is we saw the Dothraki die in episode 3. D&D confirmed that we saw the end of the Dothraki.

Now suddenly in this episode, and the preview for next week, we have thousands remaining.

Similar, but not on the same scale for the Unsullied.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2019, 01:13:37 PM
OK, which if you is behind this?

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers

I saw a really good explanation for the problems with writing. It is not competent vs. incompetent writers. It is a clash of styles.

They referred to it as plotters vs. panthers. I like to think of it as "intelligent design" vs. "free will". Plotters design the entire story from day 1. Every major scene and event carved out, and everything then designed around that. For plotters it is an intelligent design to get to an end point. Characters serve as plot pieces, designed to get from point A to point B. Apparently, D&D are epic plotters.

Pantsers fly by the seat of their pants. There is no major designed story. There are designed characters, where the story is crafted from their decisions (Free Will). The plot spirals and grows as a consequence of their decisions, leading to a totally organic world, revolving around the characters. GRRM is know as a "Pantser" and has said his story design leads to more difficult and long conclusions. He is known to say that it would take 5 more seasons to properly finish the story.

The first 4 seasons stayed true to GRRM's "Free Will" world, as he had a significant hand in story telling. When he left D&D, had control, and switched to an "intelligent design" type of writing. They had their ending. Their current time point, and set a limited number of episodes to connect the dots with major scenes to make sure it was consistent.

The characters then were no longer operating based on their character, but rather plot points to get from A to B. Organic timelines were gone, to favor getting pieces in position with the scene/episode timeline. All was necessary to wrap it up on time.

The article made a good point. Neither approach is wrong for story telling. Both are very successful approaches. They are just different in construction, and when the show switches mid-stream between the two, it is glaringly obvious that characters and timelines are no longer operating the same and it comes across as awkward and inconsistent with the original world.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: mr.MUskie on May 15, 2019, 01:31:26 PM
So what are people's predictions for the final episode?

  • Dany will execute Tyrion for freeing Jamie. She almost has to at this point.
  • Arya will try to kill Dany and fail. Dany will execute her. I feel Arya has to die because she's become the hero of the story and she's probably the one character whose death no one is expecting.
  • Jon will lose it with Arya's death; she was always his favorite of the Starks. He will kill Dany, then refuse the throne.
  • With no Targaryean heir, Gendry Baratheon, now the lawful heir of Robert, will take the throne.
  • Sansa will die. Not sure how or by whose hand, but I think she dies. That's why in the pre-season trailer, Jon's statue was of an old man while Sansa & Arya still looked young.

*Jon kills Dany cuz she's nuts
*Jon heads north and meets up with Ghost
*Tyrion becomes king, with Sansa his queen
*Arya rides off into the sunset cuz she needs some me time

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 15, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
I saw a really good explanation for the problems with writing. It is not competent vs. incompetent writers. It is a clash of styles.

They referred to it as plotters vs. panthers. I like to think of it as "intelligent design" vs. "free will". Plotters design the entire story from day 1. Every major scene and event carved out, and everything then designed around that. For plotters it is an intelligent design to get to an end point. Characters serve as plot pieces, designed to get from point A to point B. Apparently, D&D are epic plotters.

Pantsers fly by the seat of their pants. There is no major designed story. There are designed characters, where the story is crafted from their decisions (Free Will). The plot spirals and grows as a consequence of their decisions, leading to a totally organic world, revolving around the characters. GRRM is know as a "Pantser" and has said his story design leads to more difficult and long conclusions. He is known to say that it would take 5 more seasons to properly finish the story.

The first 4 seasons stayed true to GRRM's "Free Will" world, as he had a significant hand in story telling. When he left D&D, had control, and switched to an "intelligent design" type of writing. They had their ending. Their current time point, and set a limited number of episodes to connect the dots with major scenes to make sure it was consistent.

The characters then were no longer operating based on their character, but rather plot points to get from A to B. Organic timelines were gone, to favor getting pieces in position with the scene/episode timeline. All was necessary to wrap it up on time.

The article made a good point. Neither approach is wrong for story telling. Both are very successful approaches. They are just different in construction, and when the show switches mid-stream between the two, it is glaringly obvious that characters and timelines are no longer operating the same and it comes across as awkward and inconsistent with the original world.

I don't disagree with what you say, but you also need to recognize that books and tV shows are two entirely different mediums.

The author can write in great, great detail without any limitation (except for maybe an editor who will cut hundreds of pages as happened to Stephen King when he wrote The Stand). He can go into backgrounds of every character even if they are not major players. He can go into the long history of different nations. He has no restraints.

The TV writer is bound by numerous restraints, however. Time, being the main one. He has to write "across time"  so that sometimes the timelines don't match up real well. He cannot go into the same detail. The watcher has to make certain assumptions whereas the reader does not.

If Dany's descent into madness were in the next book, the author could detail it over an extended period of time. The tV show doesn't have the same luxury. Instead, we have to look back at her history in earlier years and what her basic impulses are. We need to look back at family history where her brother goes from a gentle loving person to a monster. It's all there on the tV show - you just don't get as much detail.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 15, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
Wait. They cut 100s of pages from the stand? Holy crap it was bible thick already
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 15, 2019, 03:28:18 PM
Wait. They cut 100s of pages from the stand? Holy crap it was bible thick already

the original release was probably 800 pages less than the re-issue years later
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jockey on May 15, 2019, 03:36:42 PM
the original release was probably 800 pages less than the re-issue years later

I think the original was 700-800 pages and the re-issue was 1100-1200.

Too lazy to look it up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 15, 2019, 03:39:26 PM
the original release was probably 800 pages less than the re-issue years later

Got it. Probably read the reissue first and never realized there was a skinnier version
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2019, 04:10:15 PM
I don't disagree with what you say, but you also need to recognize that books and tV shows are two entirely different mediums.

The author can write in great, great detail without any limitation (except for maybe an editor who will cut hundreds of pages as happened to Stephen King when he wrote The Stand). He can go into backgrounds of every character even if they are not major players. He can go into the long history of different nations. He has no restraints.

The TV writer is bound by numerous restraints, however. Time, being the main one. He has to write "across time"  so that sometimes the timelines don't match up real well. He cannot go into the same detail. The watcher has to make certain assumptions whereas the reader does not.

If Dany's descent into madness were in the next book, the author could detail it over an extended period of time. The tV show doesn't have the same luxury. Instead, we have to look back at her history in earlier years and what her basic impulses are. We need to look back at family history where her brother goes from a gentle loving person to a monster. It's all there on the tV show - you just don't get as much detail.

I don't disagree with you. The article essentially pointed out (and I agree) that the problem was they did the first 4-5 seasons like the books. They went into detail, let the characters develop the world and story. Then they switched styles when GRRM became less involved.

It creates a bit of a discontinuity in style. Both are good. They are just different, and not necessarily in tune with one another. Its hard for some (myself included), to adjust to how it changed. I've never been good with change.

I've also done some writing, and am a "pantser". So I may be more naturally aligned with how GRRM handled the story development.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 15, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
About where I'm at...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ikUYFK84OQ
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 15, 2019, 07:17:30 PM
Still haven't ever seen game of dorks, but that Sophie Turner chick is growing on me (and vice versa)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 15, 2019, 08:15:01 PM
Thought this was an interesting take on Dany going mad.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/game-of-thrones-daenerys-the-bells-analysis.amp
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2019, 08:48:53 PM
Actual writeup and the source of the summary of "pantsers" vs. "plotters" I was referring to.

https://twitter.com/DSilvermint/status/1125856091261136896

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 15, 2019, 10:31:08 PM
Thought this was an interesting take on Dany going mad.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/article/game-of-thrones-daenerys-the-bells-analysis.amp

This gets at a lot of thoughts I've had about Dany's character for a while now. I never understood why she was so universally beloved. I never bought into her schtick. Always struck me as a trust fund kid who's family has fallen on tough times and is simply demanding to get back to the lifestyle she feels is owed to her.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 15, 2019, 10:43:53 PM
This gets at a lot of thoughts I've had about Dany's character for a while now. I never understood why she was so universally beloved. I never bought into her schtick. Always struck me as a trust fund kid who's family has fallen on tough times and is simply demanding to get back to the lifestyle she feels is owed to her.

Just to confirm. You haven't read the books, right?

Dany never had anything. She was born in a storm. Her mother died. She was orphaned and rushed off. Her only happy memories were a modest house with a red door in Braavos. She spent her entire life, largely bankrupt and living off the good will of others as she ran from people trying to kill her.

Her dream was to go home (to the modest house with a red door). '

Her ideas changed when Jorah informed her that the people were not waiting for her brother. That they did not care about who won the game of thrones, that all they wanted was to be left alone. She viewed all of Westeros as having the red doors, symbolically it was the moment she wanted to protect the common people, from bad/dangerous rulers like her brother.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 16, 2019, 05:18:34 AM
This gets at a lot of thoughts I've had about Dany's character for a while now. I never understood why she was so universally beloved. I never bought into her schtick. Always struck me as a trust fund kid who's family has fallen on tough times and is simply demanding to get back to the lifestyle she feels is owed to her.

Even in the TV shows, she is beloved because of all the good she does.  She is just, and cares for the common person.

Well until last week.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 16, 2019, 06:53:10 AM
Even in the TV shows, she is beloved because of all the good she does.  She is just, and cares for the common person.

Well until last week.

But, she had THOUGHTS to destroy everything!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 07:32:31 AM
Just to confirm. You haven't read the books, right?

Dany never had anything. She was born in a storm. Her mother died. She was orphaned and rushed off. Her only happy memories were a modest house with a red door in Braavos. She spent her entire life, largely bankrupt and living off the good will of others as she ran from people trying to kill her.

Her dream was to go home (to the modest house with a red door). '

Her ideas changed when Jorah informed her that the people were not waiting for her brother. That they did not care about who won the game of thrones, that all they wanted was to be left alone. She viewed all of Westeros as having the red doors, symbolically it was the moment she wanted to protect the common people, from bad/dangerous rulers like her brother.

I have read them. I still feel the same way.

Even in the TV shows, she is beloved because of all the good she does.  She is just, and cares for the common person.

Well until last week.

I have never bought that she cared for the common person. I think it is more accurate to say that she hates those in power....because she feels like she should be the one in power.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 16, 2019, 07:44:24 AM
I have read them. I still feel the same way.

I have never bought that she cared for the common person. I think it is more accurate to say that she hates those in power....because she feels like she should be the one in power.

Who has actually cared for the commoner? Other than Varys, the closest one I can think of is Margaery, but you can argue that was disingenuous and served her ultimate goal of being Queen, at worst.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 07:54:38 AM
Who has actually cared for the commoner? Other than Varys, the closest one I can think of is Margaery, but you can argue that was disingenuous and served her ultimate goal of being Queen, at worst.

I'd add John, Tyrion, and Eddard to the list. I agree that Margaery's care for the common folk was disingenuous though I would still say more genuine than Dany's.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 16, 2019, 08:00:04 AM
I'd add John, Tyrion, and Eddard to the list. I agree that Margaery's care for the common folk was disingenuous though I would still say more genuine than Dany's.

I can get on board with them, Eddard no doubt.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 16, 2019, 08:04:03 AM
Even in the TV shows, she is beloved because of all the good she does.  She is just, and cares for the common person.

Well until last week.

You can certainly argue some followed her because of fear or even awe. The Dothraki didn't follow her because she was just.

Was incinerating the Tarleys just?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 08:51:09 AM
Was incinerating the Tarleys just?

Yes. Enemy general who turned traitor on his sworn liege (House Tyrell) to take up arms against the rightful surviving heir to the Iron Throne. His son refused to leave his father's side, so his execution is on the same grounds. (That would be Dany's perspective, but definitely just)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 08:57:27 AM
The clincher for me that Dany's turn was lazy was in rewatching it, specifically the "Previously on" scene before the opening credits. They spent a lot of time playing background quotes about Targaryens going mad behind Dany. They were trying to convince the audience this was always obvious. Even worse, some of those quotes weren't from past episodes, but from the episode that was about to air!

"We haven't really sold this 'Mad Queen' concept yet, so let's try to jam it into the 60-second episode preview. Hope everyone watches that!"

When Varys talked about the coin flip in the first scene with Jon and you hear him say a quote that was used multiple times in the intro just a couple minutes before, it really feels hacky. I didn't notice it the first time, but it stuck out like a sore thumb the second.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 16, 2019, 09:30:45 AM
Yes. Enemy general who turned traitor on his sworn liege (House Tyrell) to take up arms against the rightful surviving heir to the Iron Throne. His son refused to leave his father's side, so his execution is on the same grounds. (That would be Dany's perspective, but definitely just)

Disagree.  Execution wasn't necessary nor just. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 16, 2019, 09:31:35 AM
The clincher for me that Dany's turn was lazy was in rewatching it, specifically the "Previously on" scene before the opening credits. They spent a lot of time playing background quotes about Targaryens going mad behind Dany. They were trying to convince the audience this was always obvious. Even worse, some of those quotes weren't from past episodes, but from the episode that was about to air!

"We haven't really sold this 'Mad Queen' concept yet, so let's try to jam it into the 60-second episode preview. Hope everyone watches that!"

When Varys talked about the coin flip in the first scene with Jon and you hear him say a quote that was used multiple times in the intro just a couple minutes before, it really feels hacky. I didn't notice it the first time, but it stuck out like a sore thumb the second.

Yes, but this quote has been around multiple times since Barristen Selmy first said it in Season 2.

I think you guys are really getting way too worked up about the Dany going mad... there was way more foreshadowing that it would happen than we needed.  Plus she lost her closest friends, allies, and 2 dragons in a short span of time.  Plus Emilia Clarke did a great job of acting during the fireside talk with Jon in the last episode of taking the path of love or fear... and because Jon rejected her love, she chose fear then and there. 

Anyway, I'm surprised by how much backlash this has gotten because the whole "long night" and Night King / Bran thing to me was far more rushed and hacked into hardly anything.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 09:44:10 AM
Disagree.  Execution wasn't necessary nor just.

From Dany's perspective it was both. He wouldn't bend the knee to his lawful queen. He wouldn't take the black. He was a traitor. What other punishment should she have rendered?

The Tarlys made their choice. Both of them. There was no alternative at that point.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: LON on May 16, 2019, 09:49:49 AM
Yes, but this quote has been around multiple times since Barristen Selmy first said it in Season 2.

I think you guys are really getting way too worked up about the Dany going mad... there was way more foreshadowing that it would happen than we needed.  Plus she lost her closest friends, allies, and 2 dragons in a short span of time.  Plus Emilia Clarke did a great job of acting during the fireside talk with Jon in the last episode of taking the path of love or fear... and because Jon rejected her love, she chose fear then and there. 

Anyway, I'm surprised by how much backlash this has gotten because the whole "long night" and Night King / Bran thing to me was far more rushed and hacked into hardly anything.

The time for her to go crazy was when Missandei got her head cut off and all her enemies were sitting right there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 09:51:12 AM
Anyway, I'm surprised by how much backlash this has gotten because the whole "long night" and Night King / Bran thing to me was far more rushed and hacked into hardly anything.

I wanted more explanation, but that was always going to come down to one last battle & one last strike from Arya. The Night King has been marching for 5 seasons now. He first appeared in S4, attacked Hardhome in S5, killed the Three Eyed Raven in S6, marches toward Eastwatch, battles Jon's companions, and breaches the Wall in S7, then massacres Last Hearth all before the final battle in S8.

The Night King has been marching, killing, & building his army for a long time. Dany's madness was a switch flip, IMO.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 09:58:00 AM
From Dany's perspective it was both. He wouldn't bend the knee to his lawful queen. He wouldn't take the black. He was a traitor. What other punishment should she have rendered?

The Tarlys made their choice. Both of them. There was no alternative at that point.

I think the general practice in both Westeros and the real world is that you don't execute prisoners of war who have surrendered.

I wanted more explanation, but that was always going to come down to one last battle & one last strike from Arya. The Night King has been marching for 5 seasons now. He first appeared in S4, attacked Hardhome in S5, killed the Three Eyed Raven in S6, marches toward Eastwatch, battles Jon's companions, and breaches the Wall in S7, then massacres Last Hearth all before the final battle in S8.

The Night King has been marching, killing, & building his army for a long time. Dany's madness was a switch flip, IMO.

I mean, Dany crucified people. Literally crucified hundreds of people. I think anyone capable of ordering that has a touch of madness.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
I think the general practice in both Westeros and the real world is that you don't execute prisoners of war who have surrendered.

I mean, Dany crucified people. Literally crucified hundreds of people. I think anyone capable of ordering that has a touch of madness.

The punishment for treason or oath breaking in Westeros is death. It was allowed for people to take the black instead, but the Night's Watch no longer existed.

Dany followed the law. She did exactly as a lord is supposed to do.

Not to mention, the Tarly's, and others may have surrendered, but they refused to acknowledge her as their queen, which is treason. If she executed them after they pledged their loyalty to her, then you could claim madness. But she didn't do that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on May 16, 2019, 11:49:01 AM
The clincher for me that Dany's turn was lazy was in rewatching it, specifically the "Previously on" scene before the opening credits. They spent a lot of time playing background quotes about Targaryens going mad behind Dany. They were trying to convince the audience this was always obvious. Even worse, some of those quotes weren't from past episodes, but from the episode that was about to air!

"We haven't really sold this 'Mad Queen' concept yet, so let's try to jam it into the 60-second episode preview. Hope everyone watches that!"

This is exactly the "previously on" scene I was going to highlight. I thought it was Dany's best scene in years, and it was a compilation outside the show itself.

I don't have a problem at all with where Dany ends up, its just not narraratively satisfying because we don't get a real look at her descent.  Her "fire and brimstone" stuff from season 2 and other early season feels somewhat disconnected from this, because that was inexperience and calculation. A young girl's "this is how leaders behave, right?" type stuff. Its calculated, but misplaced.  Then we see her growth as a leader. I don't have a problem at all with her doubling back on her "breaker of chains" identity, but we're not left with a clear picture of what part of that was her inexperienced bent toward cruelty from earlier seasons and what part of that is "mad king" traditionally unhinged Targaryen. 

"No one really changes" is a cool arc, and a cool point for writers to make, but this doesn't feel like that. There is meant to be an unhinged element to her behavior now, and I actually think the speed of this season lends to that in a positive way - things are rolling downhill really quickly now. I thought this past episode did a great job of capturing that, actually. Jon and Tyrion especially portray a hopeless kind of "oh crap what have we done, its too late to turn back" that really comes through. I just wish more of Dany's screentime this season were dedicated to either (1) the "voices in her head" kind of stuff that we saw in the "previously on" scene, or (2) something that shows she was disingenuous about making the world a better place the whole time.  Her plot developments have really lacked that motivational oomph, and I don't feel like D&D would have had to move heaven and earth to make the screentime she's had this season more effective in that way.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 12:00:23 PM
The punishment for treason or oath breaking in Westeros is death. It was allowed for people to take the black instead, but the Night's Watch no longer existed.

Dany followed the law. She did exactly as a lord is supposed to do.

Not to mention, the Tarly's, and others may have surrendered, but they refused to acknowledge her as their queen, which is treason. If she executed them after they pledged their loyalty to her, then you could claim madness. But she didn't do that.

I think anyone who views enemy combatants refusing to acknowledge her as their queen as treason has a touch of madness.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2019, 12:12:25 PM
I think anyone who views enemy combatants refusing to acknowledge her as their queen as treason has a touch of madness.

Right. If it were such a foregone, accepted conclusion, Tyrion wouldn't have advised her against it. And Jon and Sam wouldn't have reacted to it as they did.
One could say she was within her rights to execute them for failing to bend the knee, but the fact she went against her Hand and chose not to show mercy when it likely would have been in her best interests certainly shows she had a cruel - or at least vengeful - streak in her.

For comparison's sake, everyone was aghast when Joffrey had prisoner Ned executed, and he was (justifiably) portrayed as a monster, although death is the punishment for treason in Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 16, 2019, 12:48:01 PM
Right. If it were such a foregone, accepted conclusion, Tyrion wouldn't have advised her against it. And Jon and Sam wouldn't have reacted to it as they did.
One could say she was within her rights to execute them for failing to bend the knee, but the fact she went against her Hand and chose not to show mercy when it likely would have been in her best interests certainly shows she had a cruel - or at least vengeful - streak in her.

For comparison's sake, everyone was aghast when Joffrey had prisoner Ned executed, and he was (justifiably) portrayed as a monster, although death is the punishment for treason in Westeros.

It isn't treason alone. That was the whole surprise of the episode, everybody set it up so Ned could take the black after admitting treason (which he did) then Joffrey was supposed to say go north but he didn't.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 12:49:13 PM
I think anyone who views enemy combatants refusing to acknowledge her as their queen as treason has a touch of madness.

They were traitors when they betrayed House Tyrell.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 01:02:22 PM
They were traitors when they betrayed House Tyrell.

So if they bent the knee to her she would have still executed them for being traitors? Not buying it. She executed them because they refused to bend the knee.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 01:08:10 PM
So if they bent the knee to her she would have still executed them for being traitors? Not buying it. She executed them because they refused to bend the knee.

They were traitors. They didn't atone for their treason by bending the knee. This is pretty straight forward. Outside taking the black, which Randall Tarly also refused, there was no other appropriate sentence.

As I asked earlier, what other punishment should she have rendered?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 16, 2019, 01:32:54 PM
It isn't treason alone. That was the whole surprise of the episode, everybody set it up so Ned could take the black after admitting treason (which he did) then Joffrey was supposed to say go north but he didn't.

This exactly. The agreed upon plan was that Ned would plead guilty to save his family, Joffrey would let him take the black. It led to an unexpected execution because Joffrey took the latter option away.

In the case of the Tarlys, Randall refused that latter option because he claimed Dany didn't have the authority to sentence him to the Wall.

Dany is operating as the rightful monarch. House Tyrell was sworn to her through Olenna, and thus House Tarly was sworn to her as well as standard bearers of the Tyrells. When Randall agreed to support Cersei in defiance of House Tyrell, he was committing treason both against the Tyrells and Targaryens to whom the Tyrells were sworn. Doesn't matter that Jamie promised him Highgarden & Warden of the South, he still broke his vows.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 02:05:26 PM
They were traitors. They didn't atone for their treason by bending the knee. This is pretty straight forward. Outside taking the black, which Randall Tarly also refused, there was no other appropriate sentence.

As I asked earlier, what other punishment should she have rendered?

Again, I don't buy for a second that Dany would have still burned them alive if they had bent the knee. Ergo, the reason for the burning was refusal to bend the knee, not treason.

They were enemy combatants who had surrendered. The most just thing to do is to imprison them and treat them as prisoners of war.

You can forgive Dany for that if you want. To me, it was another moment in a long list of moments that hinted that she was another tyrant in the making. I forgave her a lot in the beginning, but right around the time she started crucifying hundreds of people I realized which side of the coin had landed face up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 16, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
It isn't treason alone. That was the whole surprise of the episode, everybody set it up so Ned could take the black after admitting treason (which he did) then Joffrey was supposed to say go north but he didn't.

Perhaps I'm not expressing my point clearly enough.
Ultimately, Ned and the Tarlys were executed for treason, a crime for which they both essentially confessed. This, you say, is the accepted and just punishment for that crime in Westeros.
Regardless of whether Joffrey could have/should have/or did agree to let Ned join the Nightswatch, don't you agree that he was well within his rights to have Ned's head lopped off and doing so was not villainy, but rather justice? - as you do for Dany for carrying out the same punishment for the same crime on the Tarlys?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 16, 2019, 07:22:00 PM
Perhaps I'm not expressing my point clearly enough.
Ultimately, Ned and the Tarlys were executed for treason, a crime for which they both essentially confessed. This, you say, is the accepted and just punishment for that crime in Westeros.
Regardless of whether Joffrey could have/should have/or did agree to let Ned join the Nightswatch, don't you agree that he was well within his rights to have Ned's head lopped off and doing so was not villainy, but rather justice? - as you do for Dany for carrying out the same punishment for the same crime on the Tarlys?

Well since he should never have been king in the first place then no it was not treason and thus it was murder. Though if we go off the stance that Joffrey was king and any questioning of that is treason then yes I agree with you.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 16, 2019, 10:27:55 PM
Perhaps I'm not expressing my point clearly enough.
Ultimately, Ned and the Tarlys were executed for treason, a crime for which they both essentially confessed. This, you say, is the accepted and just punishment for that crime in Westeros.
Regardless of whether Joffrey could have/should have/or did agree to let Ned join the Nightswatch, don't you agree that he was well within his rights to have Ned's head lopped off and doing so was not villainy, but rather justice? - as you do for Dany for carrying out the same punishment for the same crime on the Tarlys?

Here is the difference. It was considered common practice to have people take the Black. Denying that opportunity defied all Westeros norms. So taking his head anyway was unjust.

Another key difference, Ned was carrying out the legal order of the King, that the head of the Kings guard agreed was the legal order of the King.

Dany carried out the sentence that the Tarly's accepted, and was the legally accepted outcome in Westeros. Not remotely acceptable.

Don't forget the season began with a beheading for breaking an oath.

I think anyone who views enemy combatants refusing to acknowledge her as their queen as treason has a touch of madness.

Are you trying to apply real-world norms to Westeros norms. Because in Westeros, it is definitely treason. The Tarly's were not the least bit surprised by their sentence, they expected it.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 16, 2019, 11:05:17 PM
Are you trying to apply real-world norms to Westeros norms

Not at all. In other situations where people surrendered I saw other houses take prisoners of war and those prisoners of war were treated with respect. When prisoners of war weren't treated with respect (like when the Lannister boys were murdered in Robb Stark's camp), those responsible were harshly punished.

Because in Westeros, it is definitely treason. The Tarly's were not the least bit surprised by their sentence, they expected it.

I would expect it too if I knew the decision was being made by a mad tyrant in the making. If it was the expected sentence, why did the Queen's advisors seem shocked by it and try to talk her out of it?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 17, 2019, 05:56:27 AM
Again, I don't buy for a second that Dany would have still burned them alive if they had bent the knee. Ergo, the reason for the burning was refusal to bend the knee, not treason.

I never said the former. The crime was treason. They, and all their soldiers, were given a way out by bending the knee.

If everyone that didn't bend the knee was going to be summarily executed, Jon would've been a snack for Drogon 5 minutes after landing at Dragonstone.

They were enemy combatants who had surrendered. The most just thing to do is to imprison them and treat them as prisoners of war.

I'm not aware of the prison system Dany has access to, but the generally accepted alternative in Westeros is taking the black. They refused.

You can forgive Dany for that if you want. To me, it was another moment in a long list of moments that hinted that she was another tyrant in the making. I forgave her a lot in the beginning, but right around the time she started crucifying hundreds of people I realized which side of the coin had landed face up.

It's not a forgiving thing at all. The Tarlys knew the crime they stood accused of, knew the consequences, & refused the appeal process which was taking the black.

There is a fundamental difference between exacting punishments on those you perceive as criminals, like the Tarlys, the Masters of Mereen, or Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and massacring (conservatively) tens of thousands of innocents.

I'm not saying the narrative couldn't support it, but the producers did not paint that picture well enough for me. That's why we got an overblown "previously on" scene that didn't match anything actually seen in the show. And frankly, I think that's part of why they didn't show Dany's face during the massacre. Because they didn't know what it should look like. They'll say it was a narrative device to make her an abstract horror or some such, but I don't buy that. She's been a POV character in the books & show since day one. This was too important a moment not to at least give some whispers as to that point of view.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 17, 2019, 07:46:08 AM
If everyone that didn't bend the knee was going to be summarily executed, Jon would've been a snack for Drogon 5 minutes after landing at Dragonstone.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that tyrants dole out justice equally. In fact, that's one of the signs of a tyrant.

There is a fundamental difference between exacting punishments on those you perceive as criminals, like the Tarlys, the Masters of Mereen, or Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and massacring (conservatively) tens of thousands of innocents.

There isn't though. She just expanded her view of who she perceived as criminals.

Dany brutally murdered and tortured her way to power across the narrow sea. It only made sense that she would continue and escalate that trend once she got to Westeros.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 17, 2019, 08:45:59 AM
Dany brutally murdered and tortured her way to power across the narrow sea. It only made sense that she would continue and escalate that trend once she got to Westeros.

There is nothing consistent in her narrative with murdering commoners.

They could have done it differently and made it explicable. She could've murdered all of the Tarly soldiers along with their lord. They could've shown her allowing significant collateral damage at Winterfell. They could've showed her targeting Lannister soldiers, with less and less regard for the collateral damage. They could've built up to this over a number of episodes. They could've put the voices in her head in the show itself rather than ramming into the last few seconds of the "previously on" segment.

But they didn't. They didn't do any of those. They didn't do anything that indicated such a rapid turn was possible. They gave us one jealous look at Winterfell, one advisor's death, and one nuclear rampage. For 7-1/2 years, she was the one who would break the wheel. The breaker of chains. The freer of slaves. Everything she did was painted to benefit the common folk, then in an instant they flip it. This is why I want GRRM to finish the books. Because I am confident he will escalate the madness, make it believable, make it understandable, & deliver it enough from Dany's perspective so that the readers can relate and accept how she comes to where she came.

Everyone I mentioned was clearly her enemy. Someone who betrayed her or tried to stand against her. The Tarlys were traitors. The Masters were enemy overlords & slavers. Xaro Xhoan Daxos betrayed her. Sorry, but it's just not something that equates to what we saw last week. Not remotely. It's like the difference of killing an ant on your arm that just bit you and hunting down and pouring gasoline on every anthill you can find and lighting a match.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 17, 2019, 09:44:53 AM
For 7-1/2 years, she was the one who would break the wheel. The breaker of chains. The freer of slaves. Everything she did was painted to benefit the common folk, then in an instant they flip it.

This is the white savior lie that you bought in to. She broke chains and freed slaves because it was the easiest and quickest way to get herself into power. How often does she talk about her love for the common people? Not very. How often does she talk about how she is the rightful ruler? All the time. How often does she talk about her hate for those in power? All the time.

The only wheel Dany was interested in breaking was the wheel that kept her off the iron throne. She did a lot of the right things and said a lot of the right things but they were all only to serve her own self interest. She was at her most genuine not when she was freeing slaves but instead when she was butchering the slave owners.

Also, while I understand the desire for a longer drawn out descent, I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Those who fall into madness often show subtle signs but their "big moment" so to speak catches those around them by surprise.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: drewm88 on May 17, 2019, 10:07:56 AM
I liked this alternative path for Dany's descent laid out by Albert Burneko.
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

Quote
First of all, Euron does not shoot Rhaegal down in “The Last of the Starks.” He still wipes out Dany’s fleet and captures Missandei, and Missandei still gets executed atop the wall of King’s Landing in front of Dany and Grey Worm and Tyrion. (Since all of the characters’ battle plans and movements have been driven by narrative need rather than strategic goals this season, the show could have had Dany and Jon flying the dragons somewhere else at the moment of Euron’s ambush, to make an opening for him to wipe out her fleet and capture Missandei without the dragons roasting his boats.) Dany is still hollowed-out and pushed to the edge by the loss of Missandei and the final breakdown of her trust in the people around her, but she enters the battle of King’s Landing with two dragons, and with Jon riding Rhaegal.

This avoids the silly, temporary attribute buffs both Euron and the Big Crossbows needed in order to make Rhaegal’s death happen the way it did. This way, when Dany attacks King’s Landing and makes quick, short work of all the dozens and dozens of Big Crossbows along the outer walls of the city, it makes better sense: We saw a Big Crossbow wound Drogon, so we know they’re dangerous, but we never saw Big Crossbows make a frickin’ pincushion out of a flying, moving dragon a mile away, with shots fired from the rolling deck of a moving boat, so there’s no reason to think they’re capable of doing anything like that, which is good, since that ought to be completely impossible even with weapons much cooler and more sophisticated than Big Crossbows.

So, Dany’s got two dragons; her on one, and Jon on the other. And just like in “The Bells,” she trashes the Golden Company and the Iron Fleet; she and Jon circle King’s Landing, wiping out the wall-mounted Big Crossbows, and she blasts a huge hole in the wall of city for her army to pour through. It becomes shockingly apparent, right away, that for all of Cersei’s small-time victories in the lead-up to this final battle, there’s still nothing to match two full-grown dragons and she cannot possibly hold the capital.

The people of King’s Landing surrender, just like they did in “The Bells,” by ringing, uh, the bells. The Lannister soldiers drop their swords. Dany and Jon perch Drogon and Rhaegal on high points and look toward the Red Keep. Maybe they share a weary but guardedly affectionate glance. And then Euron skewers a stationary Rhaegal through the unnatural carnal knowledgein’ eyeball* with a Big Crossbow heretofore hidden on one of the rooftops of King’s Landing!!!!

*In his writing, George R. R. Martin has made clear that the only previous time in the history of this fictional world that a weapon that wasn’t a dragon itself has ever killed a dragon was when a Dornishman landed a million-to-one shot from a Big Crossbow straight through the eye of a dragon, one of the only places where it was not protected by scales as hard as steel. In fact no subsequent attempts to kill dragons with Big Crossbows ever yielded so much as a serious wound. So this would be both a good nod to the written text and a plausible way for Euron to kill a dragon.

Dany can only watch in brain-melting shock and grief as one of her two remaining children—the loves of her life, the sources of her identity—whom she’d nurtured back from the brink after the Battle of Winterfell, topples to the streets dead as hell, killed pointlessly and vindictively at what should have been the end of a battle she’d already won. His fall takes down and (as far as she can tell) kills the doofus she still kinda loves and relates to, the one dude in all of Westeros who still unquestioningly supported her claim to the throne. And—oh crap, there are still big arrows flying at her, from an untold number of Big Crossbows still out there on the rooftops of King’s Landing, camouflaged on the rooftops of civilian buildings; she can’t even really tell where the big arrows are coming from!

It’s where a wiser leader, one more suited to the awesome power she’s spent her life working to claim for herself, might withdraw, marshal her resources, and commit to some combination of a siege and a house-by-house clearing of the city by her infantry. But in her rage and pain and sorrow, and painfully out of reach of all the advisors who’ve helped her rein herself in over the years, Dany reacts—not making a conscious, deliberate decision to do genocide to innocent people, but lashing out as a wounded dragon, as the thing she always has had inside of her, at both the Big Crossbows and at the entire society that has taken so much from her—and just unnatural carnal knowledgein’ lays waste to King’s Landing.

Pushed beyond her breaking point and separated from the people who care about her, in the moment, Daenerys Targaryen fully becomes, finally and for all time, the Mother of Dragons—and in so doing not only categorically disqualifies herself from ever being accepted or loved as the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, but also forsakes her humanity and destroys her own soul. From there, “The Bells” plays out the way it did—only this way, it’s tragic! It reaches back farther than just the previous handful of episodes to fulfill and resonate with what’s been happening to Dany over the course of the whole run of the show! It changes what came across last night as a frankly evil and inexplicable conscious choice (Now I shall melt thousands and thousands of frightened children) into an uncontrollable firestorm of grief and fury! It leads to all the same breathtaking carnage “The Bells” delivered last night! Frankly, it rules!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 17, 2019, 10:48:49 AM
I liked this alternative path for Dany's descent laid out by Albert Burneko.
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

The point of this last episode was to reveal who Dany truly was the whole time. This path would have just given people another excuse to look past the brutality of what Dany was doing and blame it on temporary insanity from watching her dragon and (as far as she knew) Jon dying.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 17, 2019, 11:39:11 AM
https://entertainment.theonion.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-disappointed-with-how-qua-1834843021 (https://entertainment.theonion.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-disappointed-with-how-qua-1834843021)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 18, 2019, 10:40:03 AM
https://entertainment.theonion.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-disappointed-with-how-qua-1834843021 (https://entertainment.theonion.com/game-of-thrones-showrunners-disappointed-with-how-qua-1834843021)

Watching the actors interviews on this season is hilarious. Essentially they think this season was not good.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 18, 2019, 02:53:31 PM
Watching the actors interviews on this season is hilarious. Essentially they think this season was not good.

Have you actually watched the interviews, or just the YouTube mash up making rounds that takes sound bites out of context?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 18, 2019, 05:57:08 PM
Have you actually watched the interviews, or just the YouTube mash up making rounds that takes sound bites out of context?

I've watched the interviews.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on May 18, 2019, 06:26:58 PM
Watching the actors interviews on this season is hilarious. Essentially they think this season was not good.

Went to a Game of Thrones party with HBO last night.  It's funny, that is essentially what most are saying. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 19, 2019, 08:13:21 AM
I think the general practice in both Westeros and the real world is that you don't execute prisoners of war who have surrendered.

I mean, Dany crucified people. Literally crucified hundreds of people. I think anyone capable of ordering that has a touch of madness.

I find it interesting that all the Targaryens in the show are blonde, except Jon. I guess the mad gene that runs through the Targaryens is due to their inbreeding as Jon seems quite the opposite of all other Targaryens whose mother was a Stark. I will be greatly disappointed if Dany does not wind up being the mad queen of Westeros as the Game never seems to end. However, I don't feel that is how the show will end.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2019, 09:02:12 AM
I find it interesting that all the Targaryens in the show are blonde, except Jon. I guess the mad gene that runs through the Targaryens is due to their inbreeding as Jon seems quite the opposite of all other Targaryens whose mother was a Stark. I will be greatly disappointed if Dany does not wind up being the mad queen of Westeros as the Game never seems to end. However, I don't feel that is how the show will end.

Targaryen bastards often do not have the white/blond hair.  The entire Baratheon household are Targaryen bastards. They all have black hair.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2019, 11:14:11 AM
Curious what this final episode will bring. If they are able to bring home an amazing ending, it may allow some forgiveness for the forced trajectory to the end, and forced deviation from established characters.

If it has a crappy ending. It says the writers did not have a clear vision.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Tied up with a bow.   Neat, orderly.  A win for the Starks.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Sir Lawrence on May 19, 2019, 10:18:09 PM
Tied up with a bow.   Neat, orderly.  A win for the Starks.

From a Bears fan friend:

I feel the exact same way I did after the double doink
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2019, 10:26:03 PM
Questions on the finale.

Why did the unsullied and Dothraki let Jon and Tyrion live for what appears to be months, before the lords and ladies of Westeros arrive? They killed their leader, so they just wait for the allies to show up? They would have executed both of them within minutes of realizing what happened.

Related. How did they know Jon killed Dany? Drogon ran off with the body.

Why did the other leaders just agree to let the North be its own kingdom? The Greyjoys and Dorne were fine with it, and didn't want independent Kingdoms for themselves? Yara goes from wanting Jon's head, because he killed Dany, to being ok following a Stark and letting the Starks have an independent Kingdom?

No one wants Jon to go to the Wall. But they can't just let him go wherever? The Unsullied and Dothraki left Westeros, why would Jon have to do anything?

The other big head-scratcher. Bran has repeatedly said, he doesn't want anything. He doesn't want any titles, nothing to do with the present or future. Then he says in this episode, he made the entire journey to be King. So everything he did was done to be King of the Seven Kingdoms? The only way to take that, is that Bran was the ultimate evil. Orchestrating all of this so that he could be King. After all, he and the other 3-eyed raven were the ones meddling with everything.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 19, 2019, 10:40:58 PM
Didn't much care for it. Jon's ending was cute with Tormund being there.

Finally Ghost gets love
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 19, 2019, 10:44:22 PM
Wouldn’t surprise me if that Jon Snow/Ghost reunion was filmed in the last week after all the back lash.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 19, 2019, 10:45:16 PM
Didn't much care for it. Jon's ending was cute with Tormund being there.

Finally Ghost gets love

I figured that would be Jon's ending, going North of the wall with the Free-folk. I figured Arya would look for what is West of Westeros, and that Sansa would be a queen somewhere.

Bran being King doesn't make any sense, unless he is actually the true "evil".

My big complaint is that everything was still so forced and contrived to get to the ending. They needed at least two seasons to do this in any way that made sense.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 19, 2019, 10:55:24 PM
I’m done with this show, this episode just ended it for me.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Cheeks on May 19, 2019, 11:09:50 PM
Wouldn’t surprise me if that Jon Snow/Ghost reunion was filmed in the last week after all the back lash.

Nope
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 19, 2019, 11:14:54 PM
From a Bears fan friend:

I feel the exact same way I did after the double doink

I'm a Bears fan and your friend is an idiot.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 19, 2019, 11:16:31 PM
I’m done with this show, this episode just ended it for me.

Well it was the series finale.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 19, 2019, 11:16:41 PM
this weeks summary without context

(https://preview.redd.it/q8jhdiz2aaz21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=15a51c52c0b70eb02d7ad60acd7ecd0c79afb3f3)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 19, 2019, 11:41:52 PM
Questions on the finale.

Why did the unsullied and Dothraki let Jon and Tyrion live for what appears to be months, before the lords and ladies of Westeros arrive? They killed their leader, so they just wait for the allies to show up? They would have executed both of them within minutes of realizing what happened.

Related. How did they know Jon killed Dany? Drogon ran off with the body.

Why did the other leaders just agree to let the North be its own kingdom? The Greyjoys and Dorne were fine with it, and didn't want independent Kingdoms for themselves? Yara goes from wanting Jon's head, because he killed Dany, to being ok following a Stark and letting the Starks have an independent Kingdom?

No one wants Jon to go to the Wall. But they can't just let him go wherever? The Unsullied and Dothraki left Westeros, why would Jon have to do anything?

The other big head-scratcher. Bran has repeatedly said, he doesn't want anything. He doesn't want any titles, nothing to do with the present or future. Then he says in this episode, he made the entire journey to be King. So everything he did was done to be King of the Seven Kingdoms? The only way to take that, is that Bran was the ultimate evil. Orchestrating all of this so that he could be King. After all, he and the other 3-eyed raven were the ones meddling with everything.

My guesses:

I think it was maybe a week or two, not months. I'd guess Jon surrendered and confessed. Grey Worm is smart enough to know that without Drogon, Jon & Tyrion were his only real bargaining chips.

I think because the North is huge & everyone was done with war. Besides, 6+1 kingdoms ruled by Starks isn't that different from 7 kingdoms ruled by a Stark.

Jon is noble. He might not have to follow that dictate, but he's a man of his word.

I think Bran made the journey not because he wanted the crown but because he knew he had to take it. He likely didn't see another successor that would satisfy everyone & knew Tyrion would consider him. I didn't see that as evil at all. I think Bran is truly removed from such mortal constructs as good and evil.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 19, 2019, 11:46:14 PM
My thoughts...blah. That could not have felt more anticlimactic. Everyone morose after the battle, Jon kills Dany, reform the kingdom, world returned to status quo. Few deaths, little excitement, no shadow of a future threat. Was hoping for some flash of blue eyes, or rumors of a threat from the East, or Drogon menacingly riding on the air, but instead, nothing. I feel like that episode was just something that happened. No emotion, no excitement, just "here you go, that's the end of the show, lock the door on your way out."
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2019, 12:44:13 AM
Tyrion said he had been in his cell two months.     I think.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 20, 2019, 06:54:04 AM
Whoever guessed here months ago that Sam and Tyrion would start a democracy, so close, and yet so so so far.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 20, 2019, 07:15:09 AM
Well it was the series finale.

(https://i.imgur.com/U7Ghu2s.gif?noredirect)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2019, 07:49:03 AM
My thoughts...blah. That could not have felt more anticlimactic. Everyone morose after the battle, Jon kills Dany, reform the kingdom, world returned to status quo. Few deaths, little excitement, no shadow of a future threat. Was hoping for some flash of blue eyes, or rumors of a threat from the East, or Drogon menacingly riding on the air, but instead, nothing. I feel like that episode was just something that happened. No emotion, no excitement, just "here you go, that's the end of the show, lock the door on your way out."

I think this best sums up my feelings as well. Few things that don't make sense to me as well but this is about what I feel.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 20, 2019, 08:39:01 AM
Like most people I thought the episode started well and then devolved badly.  So we're letting a prisoner who was there for sentencing lead the discussion on how the next king is to be selected?  We go from shut up you're not here to talk to him talking endlessly in about a minute?  He hasn't made a good decision in about 3 seasons which should be apparent to everyone one involved.  Worst part is that he talks everyone into having as the new king someone who has literally done nothing to make anyone think he could be a good king.  Can he lead?  Can he administer?  Can he inspire? Can he plan?  Can he freaking talk to other people or make any decision of any kind?  Nobody knows.  The only argument against him is that he can't have children?  It is akin to making a very knowledgeable historian king.  Though repeatedly denying he wants anything he happily accepts the job like he has wanted it all along but even the one scene they show after he is king leads you to believe he has no interest in being king.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2019, 08:57:34 AM
My guesses:

I think it was maybe a week or two, not months. I'd guess Jon surrendered and confessed. Grey Worm is smart enough to know that without Drogon, Jon & Tyrion were his only real bargaining chips.

I think because the North is huge & everyone was done with war. Besides, 6+1 kingdoms ruled by Starks isn't that different from 7 kingdoms ruled by a Stark.

Jon is noble. He might not have to follow that dictate, but he's a man of his word.

I think Bran made the journey not because he wanted the crown but because he knew he had to take it. He likely didn't see another successor that would satisfy everyone & knew Tyrion would consider him. I didn't see that as evil at all. I think Bran is truly removed from such mortal constructs as good and evil.

Largely agree with all of this.

My thoughts...blah. That could not have felt more anticlimactic. Everyone morose after the battle, Jon kills Dany, reform the kingdom, world returned to status quo. Few deaths, little excitement, no shadow of a future threat. Was hoping for some flash of blue eyes, or rumors of a threat from the East, or Drogon menacingly riding on the air, but instead, nothing. I feel like that episode was just something that happened. No emotion, no excitement, just "here you go, that's the end of the show, lock the door on your way out."

And this.

I have mostly defended the show this season from those who say it has "sucked" because I have been entertained and because I still regard it as TV -- good TV, but TV nonetheless, with its limits and warts and rush to wrap up everything in a neat bow. But I wanted something more out of this episode -- a little more action, a little less talk (especially from Tyrion, a character I like a lot), some kind of foreboding sign, etc.

As for the entire season, I very much enjoyed episodes 2 and 5, was entertained by 3 and 4 despite their many plot holes, understood the need to use 1 to set up everything and was at least mildly disappointed with the finale. As is almost always the case with long-running TV series, its final season wasn't as good as earlier seasons. It was still good TV and occasionally very good TV but not great TV. I give it a solid B and am glad I watched it. All IMHO of course.

BTW, I'm a huge, huge, huge Veep fan -- JLD is one of the great comedic actors/actresses of our lifetime, and the show often was insanely funny. Many, many times, I had to pause and rewind because I was laughing so hard that I missed the next rapid-fire joke. However, I didn't think this final season was as strong as its predecessors. That's TV. It happens.

To me, the gold standard for series finales remains Six Feet Under. Great episode, capped by an absolutely perfect closing sequence. Mary Tyler Moore was way up there, too, and probably some others I'm not remembering right off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: JWags85 on May 20, 2019, 09:23:52 AM
No one wants Jon to go to the Wall. But they can't just let him go wherever? The Unsullied and Dothraki left Westeros, why would Jon have to do anything?

My take was that the Unsullied and Dothraki needed justice for Jon killing Dany.  Given the dispute on whether that was "good or bad", they sold Greyworm on sending Jon to Castle Black for the Night's Watch, historically the most severe punishment short of death.  Greyworm accepted that.  But Sansa and company knew that the Night's Watch was no more, so it was really just giving Jon a free pass to rejoin the Wildlings, where he wanted to be and Greyworm didn't know that bit of info.

Episode for me was eh.  Started very good, the cinematography was fantastic.  The soldiers lined up, the murmur for Dany to appear.  The shot of Dany with Drogon unfurling behind her was INCREDIBLE. Top 5 shot in the entire series.  But following her death, it went off the rails for me.

The melting of the Iron Throne was corny and overwrought metaphor.  The democracy proposition and joke laughter was dumb.  Everything just turning into a cute happy ending for basically everyone was so anti-GoT.

I saw a post last night saying GoT became legendary by being a fantasy series that subverted classic fantasy tropes...then ended with a story and finale that played right into those tropes.

D&D put the bow on being tremendous book adapters and mediocre original story creators.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 20, 2019, 09:42:50 AM
Lame ending to a lame season.

Shows' final seasons are often not as good, this is true. But this was a dramatic decline. It went from an A+ series in seasons 1-7 to a D- final season.

I'm not just trolling. I was a huge, huge fan of this series, and it did so many things so well for so long. That made this season all the more frustrating. Anyone who has paid even a small amount of attention to this series knows it is true.

They clearly got sloppy...Starbucks cups, water bottles, etc. The Double D's just phoned in this season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2019, 09:50:37 AM

The melting of the Iron Throne was corny and overwrought metaphor.  The democracy proposition and joke laughter was dumb.  Everything just turning into a cute happy ending for basically everyone was so anti-GoT.


As the dragon melted the throne, I turned to my wife and said, "Really?"

Also agree on the way-over-the-top democracy play.

I was glad there was no true cliffhanger -- or something totally idiotic like the way Sopranos ended -- but as brew said, there needed to be a little foreboding of something darker.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 20, 2019, 10:07:05 AM
Lame ending to a lame season.

Shows' final seasons are often not as good, this is true. But this was a dramatic decline. It went from an A+ series in seasons 1-7 to a D- final season.

I'm not just trolling. I was a huge, huge fan of this series, and it did so many things so well for so long. That made this season all the more frustrating. Anyone who has paid even a small amount of attention to this series knows it is true.

They clearly got sloppy...Starbucks cups, water bottles, etc. The Double D's just phoned in this season.

Honestly, season 7 was not nearly as good as people remember it being. Especially in retrospect. Definitely, had its moments but I think that was the first step of the dramatic decline
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 20, 2019, 10:27:12 AM
Honestly, season 7 was not nearly as good as people remember it being. Especially in retrospect. Definitely, had its moments but I think that was the first step of the dramatic decline

No argument. Season 7 was definitely the beginning of the decline. It just was not as pronounced. That was probably a B+ season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 20, 2019, 10:37:02 AM
S1 - A
S2 - B+
S3 - A+
S4  - A
S5 - C
S6 - B
S7 - D
S8 - D-

That ending was an ending.  That's it.  Rushed, sloppy, nonsensical... and Kit was absolutely right, disappointing.

Can't wait for the books... Though, I will have to.

My watch continues.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 20, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
So I have come to terms with what the last season was.   It was good entertainment that I enjoyed, but it no longer had enough depth for me to desire to dissect and discuss it. 

I'm taking in the scenes for what they are, and I can fill in the plot holes easily enough myself.  However, debating those and trying to help others make sense of it all doesn't appeal as much in this abbreviated style.

Ultimately, I'm walking away satisfied.  I appreciate the years of entertainment I got from it.  I hope the spin offs are equal to the standards of the first 6 seasons, but I'm not holding out hope. 

I too hope the books are going to be finished so I can get my desired complexities from it for the ending.  However, in that regard too, I'm not holding out hope.

Thanks for the memories D&D!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: reinko on May 20, 2019, 02:09:49 PM
Still better than the final season of The Wire
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: BM1090 on May 20, 2019, 02:32:47 PM
Lots of great shows (GoT, The Wire) struggled to wrap things up with a good final season. I had my issues with Breaking Bad's ending at the time but I've grown to appreciate how cleanly it wrapped up.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 20, 2019, 02:56:45 PM
Lots of great shows (GoT, The Wire) struggled to wrap things up with a good final season. I had my issues with Breaking Bad's ending at the time but I've grown to appreciate how cleanly it wrapped up.

IMO Breaking Bad ended perfectly
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: BM1090 on May 20, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
IMO Breaking Bad ended perfectly

My issue at the time was less with Felina and more with Granite State where Walt miraculously finds car keys to get himself out of the area after he called the police on himself. Felina was a great final episode.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 20, 2019, 07:18:55 PM
Post-book adaptation struggles + writers/actors/show runners wanting to move on led to the Cliff's notes of what Martin is going to write (while emphasizing on the battles/action) = season 7 and 8.

If those seasons were 10 episode each, I think everyone is much happier.

Alas.

Also, I loved that last night wasn't about the spectacle/action but was about character dialogue/interactions, which is always what liked most about GOT
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2019, 07:59:45 PM
Still better than the final season of The Wire

This is a superb and important point (if any point about a TV show can be "important").

There are many, many people -- including experienced television critics -- who think The Wire is the best show in television history. And yet its 5th season -- 20% of its run -- was at best OK. At best.

I agree that the final season of GoT was better than the final season of The Wire, a show I really liked. I do still consider Season 4 of The Wire as good a season as any television show has ever had. Maybe I could be convinced that something was as good, but I don't think anybody could convince me that there was anything better.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 21, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/20/18632110/just-how-much-of-the-game-of-thrones-ending-was-george-r-r-martins
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CreightonWarrior on May 21, 2019, 08:24:45 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/20/18632110/just-how-much-of-the-game-of-thrones-ending-was-george-r-r-martins
I've never read any books. That being said, after reading this, I'm more convinced that GRRM will never get to the end of his books. So much left to write and tell.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: SaveOD238 on May 21, 2019, 08:25:12 AM
Like most people I thought the episode started well and then devolved badly.  So we're letting a prisoner who was there for sentencing lead the discussion on how the next king is to be selected?  We go from shut up you're not here to talk to him talking endlessly in about a minute?  He hasn't made a good decision in about 3 seasons which should be apparent to everyone one involved.  Worst part is that he talks everyone into having as the new king someone who has literally done nothing to make anyone think he could be a good king.  Can he lead?  Can he administer?  Can he inspire? Can he plan?  Can he freaking talk to other people or make any decision of any kind?  Nobody knows.  The only argument against him is that he can't have children?  It is akin to making a very knowledgeable historian king.  Though repeatedly denying he wants anything he happily accepts the job like he has wanted it all along but even the one scene they show after he is king leads you to believe he has no interest in being king.

Sounds like Socrates' "Philosopher King."  The philosopher king is a lover of wisdom and therefore the best ruler.  Isn't that who Bran is?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 21, 2019, 08:30:57 AM
Sounds like Socrates' "Philosopher King."  The philosopher king is a lover of wisdom and therefore the best ruler.  Isn't that who Bran is?
Bran has knowledge, not necessarily wisdom, at least from the perspective of those in attendance of the meeting.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/20/18632110/just-how-much-of-the-game-of-thrones-ending-was-george-r-r-martins

The claim that Bran becoming king is "so wildly out of left field" is hilarious, given that Bran becoming king was the overwhelming preseason favorite at Bovada for those who chose to bet on such things.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: CTWarrior on May 21, 2019, 11:24:57 AM
The claim that Bran becoming king is "so wildly out of left field" is hilarious, given that Bran becoming king was the overwhelming preseason favorite at Bovada for those who chose to bet on such things.
I think it was "wildly out of left field" if all you had to go on was the show itself.  I imagine those odds were more based on the book and possibly people who actually knew the outcome.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBurrow on May 21, 2019, 11:38:33 AM
I think it was "wildly out of left field" if all you had to go on was the show itself.  I imagine those odds were more based on the book and possibly people who actually knew the outcome.

I'm with you here. Bran's odds were heavily based on him "having the most outs," to use a poker analogy.  Going into this season, there were reasonable guesses that he would be anything from the Night King himself, to a fully developed, actualized three eyed raven, and probably a bunch of other outcomes.  If the ending were based on the fantasy elements of the story, he was the clearest option.

Instead, those fantasy elements were largely brushed aside for the more practical, battle-oriented Stark-centric hero stories, and Bran sort of spent most of the season just speaking in half sentences and staring off on the distance.  This all culminated with a scene in the finale that could have been filmed with six alternate endings where Tyrion goes "ummmm, BRAN!" So in the sense that we're left with no development of this character beyond his mysterious warg/three eyed raven schtick, which wasn't explored at all, it was a pretty random outcome and ran contrary to the plot development of the entire season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 11:52:57 AM
I think it was "wildly out of left field" if all you had to go on was the show itself.  I imagine those odds were more based on the book and possibly people who actually knew the outcome.

I've never read a page of the books and didn't feel the choice was at all out of left field.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Coleman on May 21, 2019, 12:29:49 PM
I'm with you here. Bran's odds were heavily based on him "having the most outs," to use a poker analogy.  Going into this season, there were reasonable guesses that he would be anything from the Night King himself, to a fully developed, actualized three eyed raven, and probably a bunch of other outcomes.  If the ending were based on the fantasy elements of the story, he was the clearest option.

Instead, those fantasy elements were largely brushed aside for the more practical, battle-oriented Stark-centric hero stories, and Bran sort of spent most of the season just speaking in half sentences and staring off on the distance.  This all culminated with a scene in the finale that could have been filmed with six alternate endings where Tyrion goes "ummmm, BRAN!" So in the sense that we're left with no development of this character beyond his mysterious warg/three eyed raven schtick, which wasn't explored at all, it was a pretty random outcome and ran contrary to the plot development of the entire season.

This is the answer.

Bran isn't out of left field, it was hinted at through all seasons 1-6.

The beef is that D&D did ZERO character developnment the final two seasons. It is not a bad ending, but it was a really bad job during the final two seasons of getting us there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2019, 12:34:16 PM
I've never read a page of the books and didn't feel the choice was at all out of left field.

So, just to be clear.  You loved everything, you saw everything coming, nothing was a surprise.

Got it.

Show your winning ticket from Bovada.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 12:42:21 PM
So, just to be clear.  You loved everything, you saw everything coming, nothing was a surprise.

Got it.

Show your winning ticket from Bovada.

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.
What I didn't see is season 8 turning Hards_Alumni into the Mad Scooper. #BigMad
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 21, 2019, 12:49:07 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.
What I didn't see is season 8 turning Hards_Alumni into the Mad Scooper. #BigMad

I'll volunteer to be greyscoop/scoopworm then. They did a poor job. Last season should've been 10 episodes and so should this. If they tied up the NK last season I'd be disappointed but it would've been given fair buildup and tension. Maybe a cliffhanger the same way Jon died. Then this season should've been 10. Defeat NK, aftermath, planning, tension of lineage, etc etc all could've been given fair development. I highly doubt in the initial storyboard they put the NK and battle for the throne in the same season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 21, 2019, 12:50:58 PM
GRRM's interview where he talks about how you can't build a series where the foreshadowing builds to the Butler did it then at the last minute change to the handmaiden did it was fairly telling to me. Seemed to imply he was unhappy with the subversion for subversion sake
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 21, 2019, 12:55:54 PM
If I were to rewrite the show I'd have the battle for the throne first then Danny goes mad doesn't help against the WW and Jon has to kill her for the realm while revealing his heritage to claim the throne. It covers the madness, the bitter killing of loved one, the begrudging accepting of the throne, and gives attention to what should actually be the realistic threat to the realm. It also covers the "it doesn't matter who sits on the throne"
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 01:02:18 PM
GRRM's interview where he talks about how you can't build a series where the foreshadowing builds to the Butler did it then at the last minute change to the handmaiden did it was fairly telling to me. Seemed to imply he was unhappy with the subversion for subversion sake

Except the showrunners were working off the framework of an ending provided to them by Martin. Unless you believe Martin told them how the books would end, and then went out and filmed something entirely different?

I agree completely with critics who say the season seemed rushed and would have been much better over 10 episodes.*
But those who complain that the show somehow created a conclusion inconsistent with the narrative of the books seem to be forgetting that this is the conclusion laid out to them - in broad strokes, at least - by Martin and, IMO, thematically consistent with the earlier seasons.

* As a side note, a TV/entertainment writer who's also a friend is of the opinion that the last two seasons will be far better received 5-10 years from now, especially by those who missed out on the show's initial run and binge watch later. They'll view the series without the long gaps between seasons, the massive buildup and hype that was impossible to match, the endless theories of what would and should happen (and people getting mad when their ideas weren't brought to life on the screen), and the hundreds of online hot takes breathless posted after every episode.
I agree.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2019, 01:36:19 PM
Except the showrunners were working off the framework of an ending provided to them by Martin. Unless you believe Martin told them how the books would end, and then went out and filmed something entirely different?

I agree completely with critics who say the season seemed rushed and would have been much better over 10 episodes.*
But those who complain that the show somehow created a conclusion inconsistent with the narrative of the books seem to be forgetting that this is the conclusion laid out to them - in broad strokes, at least - by Martin and, IMO, thematically consistent with the earlier seasons.

* As a side note, a TV/entertainment writer who's also a friend is of the opinion that the last two seasons will be far better received 5-10 years from now, especially by those who missed out on the show's initial run and binge watch later. They'll view the series without the long gaps between seasons, the massive buildup and hype that was impossible to match, the endless theories of what would and should happen (and people getting mad when their ideas weren't brought to life on the screen), and the hundreds of online hot takes breathless posted after every episode.
I agree.

Your asterisked point applies somewhat to me and totally to my wife.

I saw the entire series in real time, but when my wife said she wanted to watch it too, we watched the first 7 seasons, at a relaxed but steady pace, from October through March. I loved watching it again, as I picked up on so much I had missed the first time, and the pace -- seeing 2-3 episodes in a week, sometimes more -- really helped.

As I've said, I thought this season wasn't as good as previous, but I also know that's not unusual, and I still was entertained. I thought episodes 2 and 5 were about as good as any from previous seasons. And my wife liked the show very much.

I mean, MASH is remembered as one of the greatest shows ever, but it only was great the first 3 years, and it became borderline unwatchable IMHO after Frank Burns left. All in the Family was one of the top 3 comedies of all time ... until Mike and Gloria left. Then it became bad. Then Edith died and it was awful. Sopranos, The Wire, NYPD Blue, etc, etc, ... they all had bad seasons.

I know that the big, big, big, big GOT fans just are bummed because they had become so used to excellence, and I don't blame them. But that doesn't mean others can't still enjoy the show.

I agree, Pakuni, that those who binge watch GOT a few years from now will really like it. Even Season 8.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 21, 2019, 01:53:47 PM
Except the showrunners were working off the framework of an ending provided to them by Martin. Unless you believe Martin told them how the books would end, and then went out and filmed something entirely different?

I agree completely with critics who say the season seemed rushed and would have been much better over 10 episodes.*
But those who complain that the show somehow created a conclusion inconsistent with the narrative of the books seem to be forgetting that this is the conclusion laid out to them - in broad strokes, at least - by Martin and, IMO, thematically consistent with the earlier seasons.

* As a side note, a TV/entertainment writer who's also a friend is of the opinion that the last two seasons will be far better received 5-10 years from now, especially by those who missed out on the show's initial run and binge watch later. They'll view the series without the long gaps between seasons, the massive buildup and hype that was impossible to match, the endless theories of what would and should happen (and people getting mad when their ideas weren't brought to life on the screen), and the hundreds of online hot takes breathless posted after every episode.
I agree.

Well he's quoted as saying the ending will be different but the same but different. There's characters who are dead in the show who are alive in the books, and characters they didn't include.

My team Young Griff people know what I'm talking about.

Essentially Dumb and Dumber created a world where I highly doubt the ending matches it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Well he's quoted as saying the ending will be different but the same but different. There's characters who are dead in the show who are alive in the books, and characters they didn't include.

My team Young Griff people know what I'm talking about.

Essentially Dumb and Dumber created a world where I highly doubt the ending matches it.

No one said it would be the exact same ending. I said Martin provided a framework for the ending he envisioned, and there's nothing to indicate - most notably Martin's own words -  the showrunners veered drastically away from that.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2019, 02:52:14 PM
No one said it would be the exact same ending. I said Martin provided a framework for the ending he envisioned, and there's nothing to indicate - most notably Martin's own words -  the showrunners veered drastically away from that.

Except you have absolutely no idea how much he has or has not... let alone what he gave them.  GRRM is a notorious rewriter.

Sure, the ending will be similar when its all written (someday), but the way we get there will leave a much better story and legacy than the cow chips we are being asked to swallow from D&D.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 21, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.
What I didn't see is season 8 turning Hards_Alumni into the Mad Scooper. #BigMad

I'm not madatchu.  Just think its pretty funny to say you didn't think the choice was out of left field... and your basis is Bovada... and then you didn't throw down some scratch to make it real.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 02:54:02 PM
No one said it would be the exact same ending. I said Martin provided a framework for the ending he envisioned, and there's nothing to indicate - most notably Martin's own words -  the showrunners veered drastically away from that.

Martin has said that the show would have to be 5 seasons longer, to end properly, and that his ending wouldn't necessarily be the same as the show.

The main themes will be consistent, but not the endings.

GRRM shared the themes and emphases. Not the ending.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 03:00:28 PM
GRRM shared the themes and emphases. Not the ending.

From the horse's mouth:

Q: So you’re gonna be somewhat surprised by their ending then, perhaps …
A: Well, to a degree. I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/george-r-r-martin-on-the-stark-sisters-and-ending-game-of-thrones-813890/
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 09:53:45 PM
From the horse's mouth:

Q: So you’re gonna be somewhat surprised by their ending then, perhaps …
A: Well, to a degree. I mean, I think … the major points of the ending will be things that I told them, you know, five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/george-r-r-martin-on-the-stark-sisters-and-ending-game-of-thrones-813890/

So you are agreeing with me? Your quotes say exactly what I said.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 10:00:42 PM
I've never read a page of the books and didn't feel the choice was at all out of left field.

Just curious. So you think it was obvious that Bran would be King. I give you the following.

1a. Bran told everyone he didn't want anything anymore. Not Lord of Winterfell, or any other titles. This was a lie.
1b. Bran admitted he made the whole journey, because he knew he would be King after it was all said and done.
2. He knew the past and the future.
3. He knew Dany would destroy Kings landing (he had the vision of Dragon flying over KL).
4. He would have known that Dany destroyed Kings landing in part because of finding out about Jon's parentage.
5. He would have known that Jon would kill Dany because of it (he had to know this if he knew he would be King)
6. He insisted on Jon finding out anyway. He didn't do anything to stop Rhaegal from getting shot down and Missandei kidnapped. He set everything in motion.


So he knew about him becoming King and how, he actively set the pieces in motion to get it to happen, leading to the deaths of millions of people.

Bran is the ultimate villain in this show. The 3-eyed raven is evil. That is the only rational conclusion based on everything that transpired.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2019, 10:05:47 PM
Just curious. So you think it was obvious that Bran would be King. I give you the following.

Pakuni can speak for himself re the entirety of your post, but he never said it was "obvious" that Bran would king. He merely said he didn't think it came out of left field. In other words, he didn't think it was outrageous that Bran became king, which I think you'll agree is far different from the opening line of your screed. Why you decided to take it to that level, only you know.

It would be like you saying, "I like Scarlett Johansson" and Pakuni responding, "So you hate every other human being on the planet then?"
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 21, 2019, 10:12:25 PM
Just curious. So you think it was obvious that Bran would be King. I give you the following.

1a. Bran told everyone he didn't want anything anymore. Not Lord of Winterfell, or any other titles. This was a lie.
1b. Bran admitted he made the whole journey, because he knew he would be King after it was all said and done.
2. He knew the past and the future.
3. He knew Dany would destroy Kings landing (he had the vision of Dragon flying over KL).
4. He would have known that Dany destroyed Kings landing in part because of finding out about Jon's parentage.
5. He would have known that Jon would kill Dany because of it (he had to know this if he knew he would be King)
6. He insisted on Jon finding out anyway. He didn't do anything to stop Rhaegal from getting shot down and Missandei kidnapped. He set everything in motion.


So he knew about him becoming King and how, he actively set the pieces in motion to get it to happen, leading to the deaths of millions of people.

Bran is the ultimate villain in this show. The 3-eyed raven is evil. That is the only rational conclusion based on everything that transpired.

OOOORRRR this is the best outcome for westoros. Maybe bran does stop something and instead of Dany destroying kings landing she ends up torching all of westoros. Or maybe he doesn't say something about Jon and the north goes to war with Dany over the iron throne.

You make a lot of assumptions this wasn't the best outcome out of all possibilities.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: MUBBau on May 21, 2019, 10:19:24 PM
Just cause Bran doesn’t want it doesn’t mean he won’t take the crown for the betterment of the kingdom
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 10:21:06 PM
OOOORRRR this is the best outcome for westoros. Maybe bran does stop something and instead of Dany destroying kings landing she ends up torching all of westoros. Or maybe he doesn't say something about Jon and the north goes to war with Dany over the iron throne.

You make a lot of assumptions this wasn't the best outcome out of all possibilities.

Regardless it indicates that Bran is responsible for close to 1M deaths, that were part of him becoming King.

From a pure Kant categorical imperative perspective. Bran and Dany are either equally morally corrupt, or equally morally justified. Both caused the death of ~1M people.

Similarly, if Jon killing Dany was morally just, than it would have been morally just for the Night King to kill Bran.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
Just cause Bran doesn’t want it doesn’t mean he won’t take the crown for the betterment of the kingdom

There is a difference between taking it for the betterment of the Kingdom, and taking actions that facilitate gaining the crown that lead to the death of close to 1M innocent civilians.

Tyrion's "ask me in 10 years" was a poetic nod to GRRM's main point of his books. Governing is hard. Determining what "ruling wisely" entails is almost impossible, as most decisions have significant negative outcomes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
So you are agreeing with me? Your quotes say exactly what I said.

No. It's actually not at all what you said.
You said Martin "shared the themes and emphases. Not the ending."

Martin said in the interview I linked - and has made similar comments elsewhere - that he told them the "major points of the ending."
Not the themes. Not emphases. The ending. His word.

And here's what he told 60 Minutes in April:
"I don't think Dan and Dave's ending is going to be that different from my ending."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-will-george-rr-martin-final-game-of-thrones-books-end-60-minutes-2019-04-15/

So here we have Martin - a producer on the show who's told the writers how his books will end - saying the show's end won't be that different than his ending.

You're choosing not to take his words at face value because it doesn't fit what you want to believe.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 11:00:46 PM
Just curious. So you think it was obvious that Bran would be King. I give you the following.

1a. Bran told everyone he didn't want anything anymore. Not Lord of Winterfell, or any other titles. This was a lie.
1b. Bran admitted he made the whole journey, because he knew he would be King after it was all said and done.
2. He knew the past and the future.
3. He knew Dany would destroy Kings landing (he had the vision of Dragon flying over KL).
4. He would have known that Dany destroyed Kings landing in part because of finding out about Jon's parentage.
5. He would have known that Jon would kill Dany because of it (he had to know this if he knew he would be King)
6. He insisted on Jon finding out anyway. He didn't do anything to stop Rhaegal from getting shot down and Missandei kidnapped. He set everything in motion.


So he knew about him becoming King and how, he actively set the pieces in motion to get it to happen, leading to the deaths of millions of people.

Bran is the ultimate villain in this show. The 3-eyed raven is evil. That is the only rational conclusion based on everything that transpired.

I never said it was "obvious" Bran would be king. I said it wasn't "wildly out of left field." Surely you understand the difference, right?

As for the rest:

1. No. Accepting the title doesn't make him a liar, any more so than Jon would have been a liar had he accepted it. Humans do and say things they don't want to do every day for the greater good.
1b. Maybe. But so what?
2. He knows the past. It's much less clear what future he can see. Greenseers, from my understanding, have dreams of possible futures, which is not the same as a clear vision of what certainly will come.
3. See above.
4. Assumes facts not in evidence. Also, see point #2.
5. See points 2-5.
6. This all assumes that because Bran can dream a possible future, he has the power to - and should  - stop it. Beyond that, please discuss the practical aspects of that - would your preferred ending  involve Bran learning to walk again, grabbing a sword and killing Dany?

But again, if you have a problem with the ending, take it up with George. It's his.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Pakuni on May 21, 2019, 11:24:46 PM
There is a difference between taking it for the betterment of the Kingdom, and taking actions that facilitate gaining the crown that lead to the death of close to 1M innocent civilians.

What actions did Bran take?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 21, 2019, 11:48:08 PM

But again, if you have a problem with the ending, take it up with George. It's his.

I never said I had a problem with the ending. I said I had a problem with the writing and not setting it up with any character development, or logic, or nuance.

I don't think GRRM will end the story the same way. He has said as much since the finale aired. The emphases and themes will be the same, but the actual ending will be different.

Largely, because he will actually focus on character development, logic, and nuance.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: forgetful on May 22, 2019, 12:05:43 AM
What actions did Bran take?

The books make it clear that Greenseers cannot see a guaranteed future.

The show deviates from that substantially and indicated the opposite on multiple occasions, and implies that Bran can see the future, and will act on what he sees. He knew when Sam would come outside so that he could make him go tell Jon about his parentage. He knew "when his old friend, Jamie" would arrive to Winterfell so that he could greet him. He had visions of Drogon over Kings landing, and the ash filled throne room. He knew to give Arya the dagger, etc.

We also know that he can and will go back into the past to alter future events (see "HOld the DOoR"). At the very least he saw no reason to go back and save the ~1M that died because of his insistence that Jon knows his parentage.

Why was it so important than Jon know he was a Targaryan? Why did Bran need to insist emphatically that Jon know?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: jesmu84 on May 22, 2019, 05:59:15 AM
Assuming bran can see the future, isn't it possible that he made the choice that stopping the night king - who would destroy all of humanity - was the more important goal? And decided those killed by Dany at KL was better than all of humanity being killed?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 23, 2019, 08:47:24 AM
Regardless it indicates that Bran is responsible for close to 1M deaths, that were part of him becoming King.

From a pure Kant categorical imperative perspective. Bran and Dany are either equally morally corrupt, or equally morally justified. Both caused the death of ~1M people.

Similarly, if Jon killing Dany was morally just, than it would have been morally just for the Night King to kill Bran.

So if Bran can see the future, which really isn't confirmed, is allowing the one million people to die in King's Landing the right choice if that ultimately saves more lives in the long run?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones fans here?
Post by: UWW2MU on May 23, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
So if Bran can see the future, which really isn't confirmed, is allowing the one million people to die in King's Landing the right choice if that ultimately saves more lives in the long run?

Which track is your trolley on?