Game of Thrones fans here?

[Galway Eagle]

Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?

[forgetful]

Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?

My problem is with Euron's previous success with the scorpions. This episode was much more realistic in that regard.

Agreed on Jaime. Makes sense with original character. Throw out the Brienne scene and this could be reasonable.

Agreed on the golden company. They should have had them switch sides, because the Iron bank betrayed Cersei to support the legitimate heir, Jon.

All that is problems with previous episodes this season, this one, in a vacuum was very well done.

[Galway Eagle]

My problem is with Euron's previous success with the scorpions. This episode was much more realistic in that regard.

Agreed on Jaime. Makes sense with original character. Throw out the Brienne scene and this could be reasonable.

Agreed on the golden company. They should have had them switch sides, because the Iron bank betrayed Cersei to support the legitimate heir, Jon.

All that is problems with previous episodes this season, this one, in a vacuum was very well done.

Yeah I worded my issues with Euron poorly. I agree this was better for portraying it.

[brewcity77]

The past couple episodes have felt to me like Benioff & Weiss got the gameplan from GRRM and are checking off the major plot points without any of the subtext that makes the books so good. Varys as the traitor and perfumed seneschal, arguably the third treason for love of the common folk, was decently done but could've been built up more. The Golden Company felt like a total throwaway, they show up for five minutes to say they are here, a few weeks later they show up on the battlefield to die. Dany's heel turn...I guess it was coming but unraveling her in the span of a couple weeks after building her as a savior character for years was too fast.

Two things I did really like. Jamie fulfilling the Valanquar prophecy not by murdering Cersei but by holding her lovingly was awesome. It was the kind of misdirection and inexact prophecy that makes Martin so good. While everyone was focused on whether it would be Tyrion, Jamie, or Arya with one of their faces, it was really just a hug amidst the ashes. Second, the pale horse for Arya. Just as unexpected as the non-literal Valanquar prophecy was the literal Quaithe prophecy.

One thing I've loved about this season is that it's convinced me if GRRM ever does finish this, it will be really good.

[jesmu84]

Best episode so far but some gripes:

Euron and his fleet are expert marksmen from miles away but can't hit the dragon right next to them?

Jamie's entire character development is out the window?

The golden company just sort of seems like a waste, they're the most expert sell swords more than the unsullied, second sons etc and have all the targ connections and they just die like that?

This. 7.5 seasons of a full character arc/change, undone in 10 minutes

[Coleman]

D+ episode, and I think that is being generous. Par for the course this season.

First, the positive: Visually there were some interesting/fun things: Drogon coming out of the night to execute Varys. The battle/dragon fire had some visually stunning work. The Clegane battle was cool (although meaningless from a storytelling perspective).

The Negative: Just about everything else. The whole Dany "mad queen" evolution was rushed, from a storytelling perspective. I know what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't believable. The war was won. There was no reason to destroy HER capital city. Sure, toast Cersei and the Red Keep, but nothing else made sense.

It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

Jamie acted completely opposite to his character development.

Also out of character for Arya to go all that way and then just turn around without killing Cersei.

The outcome was completely predictable, but how we got there made no sense. Worst of both worlds from a storytelling perspective.

The only positive is that GRRM has a huge opportunity to tell this story in a much more satisfying way.

[tower912]

If he lives that long.

[Galway Eagle]

D+ episode, and I think that is being generous. Par for the course this season.

First, the positive: Visually there were some interesting/fun things: Drogon coming out of the night to execute Varys. The battle/dragon fire had some visually stunning work. The Clegane battle was cool (although meaningless from a storytelling perspective).

The Negative: Just about everything else. The whole Dany "mad queen" evolution was rushed, from a storytelling perspective. I know what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't believable. The war was won. There was no reason to destroy HER capital city. Sure, toast Cersei and the Red Keep, but nothing else made sense.

It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

Jamie acted completely opposite to his character development.

Also out of character for Arya to go all that way and then just turn around without killing Cersei.

The outcome was completely predictable, but how we got there made no sense. Worst of both worlds from a storytelling perspective.

The only positive is that GRRM has a huge opportunity to tell this story in a much more satisfying way.

Forgot about this. I'm just done with Arya in general, she keeps going from super badass to terrified and desperate for help. Either make her Brienne level brave or just show it all to be a front. Back in bravos she's running and terrified of the Waif, then turns into a badass. During the battle for winterfell, she's kicking ass then suddenly hits her head and is terrified of everything. Then is a ninja, then suddenly need the hound to save her. Last night she's all calm and sneaks into the red keep, then shes terrified and cowering during the battle.

Just done very poorly 

[UWW2MU]

I thought this was the best episode in the last two seasons.  The betrayals, the way Cercei died in Jamie's arms to fulfill that prophecy in a way that we never saw coming, the utter destruction and how they portrayed it to the dismay of the "good" characters, the Clegane bowl ending the way it did, Arya w/ the pale horse.  I thought it was done with the city bells rang, but that Dany let loose was horrifying in a way that Martin has gotten me before, aka with surprise and disgust. 

Regarding Jamie...

Some of you are saying Jamie's story arc was undone, but I actually feel like this was the completion-come-full-circle for him.  This basically shows us that maybe he never "changed" during the series, he was ALWAYS an honorable man who did the right thing except when it involved his sister. 

When he was the king slayer to the mad king, people thought he did it b/c he saw the war was lost and wanted to be on the winning side, when really it was to save the city from destruction by wildfire.  We saw his honor in his oath to Catelyn Stark, his protection of Brienne when she was going to be violated by The Brave Companions, his desire to sac Riverrun without bloodshed, and many other times. 

Everything "Evil" he's done, it has been because of Cercei.  So even when we see "good" Jamie, it was ultimately his sister that he felt compelled to go back to in order to help her.  It was his major flaw and it was what did him in.  That is fitting since it was Season 1 episode 1 when we first saw his love for Cercei make him do evil things (pushing bran out window).

Dragon talk:
As far as the Iron Fleet not taking out Drogon, that is easy.  Last time they were able to get the kill shot because of surprise.  This time, Dany had surprise, the sun, and the fact she was riding him to make things end very different.  It was always the case that the dragons were more capable in battle if they had a rider to direct them.  Not to mention, trying to shoot a flying thing (plane in real life, dragons in GoT) out of the sky with a slow moving piece of artillery is much harder at low/close proximity than further away.  Once Dany/Drogon got in tight, it was all over.

[UWW2MU]

Forgot about this. I'm just done with Arya in general, she keeps going from super badass to terrified and desperate for help. Either make her Brienne level brave or just show it all to be a front. Back in bravos she's running and terrified of the Waif, then turns into a badass. During the battle for winterfell, she's kicking ass then suddenly hits her head and is terrified of everything. Then is a ninja, then suddenly need the hound to save her. Last night she's all calm and sneaks into the red keep, then shes terrified and cowering during the battle.

Just done very poorly

I think this all keeps very consistant.  She never did quite become a faceless "man" like she was being trained to become.  If she had, she would no longer care about anything having to do with Arya Stark's life and she would have no name.

But also, the reason she snapped to is because of The Hound saying to her "You don't want to be like me" that made her realize that the badass Arya she had become was going to ultimately destroy her.  She snaps out of it and wants to live again... not to mention have feelings again (thus wanting to help the mom and her girl and being so emotional at the devastation). 

She has her skills, she'll use them when needed... she's just learning how to be this new Arya/Faceless combination person.  Hopefully without the need for a peptalk from The Hound, the Red Woman, or anyone else going forward.

[UWW2MU]

OH!  Forgot a major part!

The Mad Queen:
People have been speculating that Dany would become the mad Queen like her father.  I think last night proved it... in her rage against Cercei and Jon making her choose the "feared" leader path instead of loved, she fulfill that role that people feared she'd become.  If you doubt it, look as the city burned and the random hidden cache's of wildfire left from the Mad King days... as the city burned it set off the wildfire exactly how the Mad King tried to do before Jamie killed him to stop it. 

[Galway Eagle]

I think this all keeps very consistant.  She never did quite become a faceless "man" like she was being trained to become.  If she had, she would no longer care about anything having to do with Arya Stark's life and she would have no name.

But also, the reason she snapped to is because of The Hound saying to her "You don't want to be like me" that made her realize that the badass Arya she had become was going to ultimately destroy her.  She snaps out of it and wants to live again... not to mention have feelings again (thus wanting to help the mom and her girl and being so emotional at the devastation). 

She has her skills, she'll use them when needed... she's just learning how to be this new Arya/Faceless combination person.  Hopefully without the need for a peptalk from The Hound, the Red Woman, or anyone else going forward.

See I disagree, there's a line they could put her at and I see that line as Brienne. But instead of putting her as a leveled out line of bravery that still has emotions they have her playing hopscotch back and forth over that line.

To your earlier point on Jaimie that's a fair theory and it's possible that some of my frustrations are the writing like suddenly hes claiming he doesn't care about any of the citizens? His big honest confession to Brienne was saying he killed Aerys because of all the potential innocent lives that'd be lost.

Last point but if they have Arya kill Danny I'm gonna be pissed. They changed Jon's arc and gave that kill to Arya purely for the point of subversion (which GRRM alluded to in an interview) so if they suddenly give Arya the kill again like the white mare prophecy is indicating I'm going to be pissed.

[Pakuni]

OH!  Forgot a major part!

The Mad Queen:
People have been speculating that Dany would become the mad Queen like her father.  I think last night proved it... in her rage against Cercei and Jon making her choose the "feared" leader path instead of loved, she fulfill that role that people feared she'd become.  If you doubt it, look as the city burned and the random hidden cache's of wildfire left from the Mad King days... as the city burned it set off the wildfire exactly how the Mad King tried to do before Jamie killed him to stop it.

It's not like this was foreshadowed or anything.

[Pakuni]

Regarding Jamie...

Some of you are saying Jamie's story arc was undone, but I actually feel like this was the completion-come-full-circle for him.  This basically shows us that maybe he never "changed" during the series, he was ALWAYS an honorable man who did the right thing except when it involved his sister. 

I think you're 100 percent correct here. This didn't at all undo Jamie's character arc. It fit his character arc perfectly. He's always made bad choices when it comes to Cersei. The only thing that's changed at the end is that he became self-aware of that. Self-awareness does not equal change.

[Coleman]

Its not that the mad queen thing wasn't foreshadowed or that even the result is so preposterous...its just how lazy and bad the storytelling was that got us there

[CTWarrior]

Its not that the mad queen thing wasn't foreshadowed or that even the result is so preposterous...its just how lazy and bad the storytelling was that got us there

I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.

Minor quibble when you think about it.  No matter what they did a big chunk of the fan base wasn't going to like it.  It's just that they unnecessarily boxed themselves into a corner by making the last season so short.

[LON]

I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.

Minor quibble when you think about it.  No matter what they did a big chunk of the fan base wasn't going to like it.  It's just that they unnecessarily boxed themselves into a corner by making the last season so short.

Agreed. They didn’t need 15 episodes to ruin all this. Just 10 seems like it would have sufficed, and saved us all a bunch of time.

[Pakuni]

I don't know if lazy is the right word.  More like rushed. 

It seems Danaerys went from zero to completely mad in just two/two and a half episodes.  When the bells rang and she realized the fulfillment of her dream with almost no civilian casualties, she decides to kill everyone and everything in her own kingdom, including endangering her own soldiers?  I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just saying she went from point A to point B too fast in the arc of the story, solely because of the show runners decision to get the season over so quickly.  Don't know why they couldn't have had a regular 10 episode season and flesh everything out a little more.t.

While I agree the season seems rushed  (well, because it is), if you really think Danaerys becoming a mad queen was sudden, you haven't been paying attention. The GIF I posted above is, I believe, from season 2.
- also in season 2, she promised to "lay waste to our enemies and burn their cities to the ground" (Sound familiar?)
- she torched the Khals
- she fed some leaders of Mereen to her dragons and had to be talked out of doing worse
- she torched the Tarlys
- and the show has hit us over the head to make sure we understand there's at least a 50-50 chance any Targaryen would be mad
I'm sure there are other examples, but the point is this was not a sudden or unexpected transformation.

[Pakuni]

Agreed. They didn’t need 15 episodes to ruin all this. Just 10 seems like it would have sufficed, and saved us all a bunch of time.

Sucks that you're being forced to watch.

[Coleman]

FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.

[JWags85]

It was out of character for Varys to get caught so easily. This felt rushed.

The smartest and most cunning character in the series, always a step ahead, always calculated.  Was already escaping when Tyrion killed Tywin.  Had an extensive spy network spanning continents and knew more than the rulers themselves...this dude telegraphed his choice and openly explained it and talked about it in broad daylight around tons of people?  All while living down the hall from the ruler he was essentially "betraying"?  I know he's not a Tier 1 character, but his downfall was such uncharacteristic lazy BS.

Tons of other stuff was problematic but others have explained it well.

Qyburn's death was LOL funny though.  Good riddance you creepy dead A**hole

[Galway Eagle]

FWIW HBO offered the Double D's 10 episodes for season 8. After seeing how rushed everything has been, it is especially weird they turned it down in favor of 6.

This, there's no conceivable reason I can think of that anyone would turn down the practically unlimited budget and chance to make a full season for this and last season. They should've handed the show off if they felt that they weren't able to devote their full attention to it.

[CreightonWarrior]

Are they going to be handling the spin offs?

[JWags85]

This, there's no conceivable reason I can think of that anyone would turn down the practically unlimited budget and chance to make a full season for this and last season. They should've handed the show off if they felt that they weren't able to devote their full attention to it.

They wanted to move on to make their stupid Confederate show that nobody is clamoring for

[Galway Eagle]

They wanted to move on to make their stupid Confederate show that nobody is clamoring for

that and star wars. just seems weird because how many writers are there thatd kill for a show of this size with unlimited budget?