“Now is the time”

[Aughnanure]

Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away

http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/hoopshaven/2012/11/28/former-big-east-insider-now-is-the-time-to-dissolve/

Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.

Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.

Here are highlights from the conversation:

“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”

Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?

“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”

“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”

Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?

“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”

“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy crap, what just happened here?’”

Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?

“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”

Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?

“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”

Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.

“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”

Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion? 

“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’

“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”

“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”

“That becomes a win-win for a viable league.”

[MURFC]

Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away

http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/hoopshaven/2012/11/28/former-big-east-insider-now-is-the-time-to-dissolve/

Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.

Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.

Here are highlights from the conversation:

“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”

Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?

“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”

“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”

Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?

“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”

“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy crap, what just happened here?’”

Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?

“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”

Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?

“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”

Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.

“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”

Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion? 

“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’

“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”

“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”

“That becomes a win-win for a viable league.”

I think most of us are praying that it works out this way.  A quality basketball only Big East would be near a best case scenario.

[Mutaman]

Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away


“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”

Rutgers was "the core" of the Big East. Gee, and all this time I thought it was Seton Hall.

[Warrior of Law]

This is much preferable than C-USA II. 

East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton/Creighton
SLU

Not as good as 2 years ago, but better than 10 years ago...

[Les Nessman]

This is much preferable than C-USA II. 

East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton/Creighton
SLU

Not as good as 2 years ago, but better than 10 years ago...

Butler instead of SLU and don't even break into divisions and I'd be down this setup.

[Stronghold]

Where does Memphis fall in all of this?

[esotericmindguy]

This is much preferable than C-USA II. 

East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton/Creighton
SLU

Not as good as 2 years ago, but better than 10 years ago...

This plus Butler would consistently send 5 teams to the tournament each year. I would think ESPN would want to televise based on the TV markets involved.

[Marqus Howard]

Where does Memphis fall in all of this?

They have football, so they're probably going to end up wherever the Houston, UCF, SMU, etc.'s of the world end up.

[77fan88warrior]

The Metro.
The original Big East prevented this type of Catholic school conference from forming but it would be quite interesting to have this develop 35 years later. I don't think anyone would be crying that Notre Dame wasn't part of the conference!

[Skatastrophy]

Where does Memphis fall in all of this?

They should chase the football money or cancel the program.

[Warrior of Law]

Another benefit of keeping a league at 8 or 10 teams is the rivalries that develop from the home-and-home match ups.  That was my favorite aspect of the GMC.  Let the B-league football teams toil together in the Big Conference USA.

[Norm]

I would put Creighton in over Dayton in a 10 team league. They have a good team, play at the CenturyLink Center with a capacity of 17,260, and averaged 16,665 per game, 6th best in the country last year.

For a 12 team league I'd throw in St. Louis and Dayton.

For 14 teams I'd add Detroit and Richmond.

[SaveOD238]

Where does Memphis fall in all of this?

If schools like Memphis, Cincy, and UConn want to play basketball (and maybe even all the other sports) with us but can find a football conference willing to take them on for just football, wouldn't we be stupid to say no?  They could have a situation like when Temple played football in the MAC because the A10 didn't offer it or like what SDSU and BSU set up with the Big East and WAC.  Sure, there's a chance they may leave one day, but it wouldn't be as crushing if we have a strong basketball-only contingent.

By the same token, wouldn't it be possible for all the basketball schools to form a basketball-only conference and dump ALL their other sports into local mid-major leagues.  This would allow schools like Gonzaga and St Mary's to hoop with us without worrying about travel costs for soccer and cross-country.  I gotta imagine the Horizon and MVC etc would be more than happy to take on MU volleyball or soccer.

[VegasWarrior77]

It doesn't hurt to dream:

12 Team League
East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Dayton

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Cincinnati
Creighton
SLU
Gonzaga

Or if we could convince BYU to join in BB move Cincy to the East and add BYU to the West for a 14 team league.

[Dawson Rental]

It doesn't hurt to dream:

12 Team League
East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Dayton

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Cincinnati
Creighton
SLU
Gonzaga

Or if we could convince BYU to join in BB move Cincy to the East and add BYU to the West for a 14 team league.

If we can keep Cincinnati, then we should be able to and should want to keep Memphis.  Dayton is west of Cincinnati.  No way we get BYU or Gonzaga.

[Tugg Speedman]

It doesn't hurt to dream:

12 Team League
East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Dayton

West:
Marquette
DePaul
Cincinnati
Creighton
SLU
Gonzaga

Or if we could convince BYU to join in BB move Cincy to the East and add BYU to the West for a 14 team league.

Butler?

[VegasWarrior77]

Oops!  Scratch Cincy and replace with Butler.  Most likely a 12 team league.  I'm watching an exciting Clippers-TWolves game! Too much of a stretch to add BYU and Gonzaga.

[VegasWarrior77]

If we can keep Cincinnati, then we should be able to and should want to keep Memphis.  Dayton is west of Cincinnati.  No way we get BYU or Gonzaga.

Dayton is just east of Cincinnati.  Agree that BYU & Gonzaga is a stretch.

[MarquetteNation]

Dayton is north of Cincy.

[VegasWarrior77]

+1 - That too!

[real chili 83]

Me likeeeee.

Let's get this done.  By Monday.

[Tums Festival]

If you take the 7 BE schools and add Xavier, Butler and any of Dayton/SLU/Creighton, keep the Big East name and keep the tourney in MSG that would be a good situation for us to be in.

[tower912]

This has been the likely end-game for some time now.    The basketball schools were just hoping the insanity would stop while the hybrid-league model was still viable.     The insanity hasn't stopped.    Time to move forward. 

[mu03eng]

12 Team League
East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Dayton

West:
Marquette
DePaul
CincinnatiXavier
Creighton
SLU
GonzagaButler

Fixed and I think that is an amazing basketball conference given the circumstances, with a variety of styles and some natural rivalries possible in there.  Also makes sense geographically as no one would have more than a 4 hour plan ride for anything.  Also some strong non-revenue sport possibilities there especially in soccer and volleyball.  Lacrosse we might need to land somewhere else.

[LloydMooresLegs]

12 Team League
East:
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
Dayton

West:
Marquette
DePaul
CincinnatiXavier
Creighton
SLU
GonzagaButler

Fixed and I think that is an amazing basketball conference given the circumstances, with a variety of styles and some natural rivalries possible in there.  Also makes sense geographically as no one would have more than a 4 hour plan ride for anything.  Also some strong non-revenue sport possibilities there especially in soccer and volleyball.  Lacrosse we might need to land somewhere else.

This is it.