Marquette fires Scott Monarch. Suspends HC Buzz Williams for one League game

[Lennys Tap]

Any comparison whatsoever to Penn State is ludicrous. Remember the "Hitler" analogies seen on the internet that disgust all sane people? Same difference.

[Pakuni]

Any comparison whatsoever to Penn State is ludicrous. Remember the "Hitler" analogies seen on the internet that disgust all sane people? Same difference.

Agreed.
Now show us where anyone compared this to Penn State.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Any institution associated with the Roman Catholic Church should avoid all reference to anything "Penn State Scandal" related as that situation is a mere pimple compared to the skeletons still seeping from the church's closet. Fr. wild himself played the role of Joe Paterno in one such scandal.

[Lennys Tap]

Agreed.
Now show us where anyone compared this to Penn State.

All right, how about any analagous referencing or referencing period? Still absurd.

[Pakuni]

All right, how about any analagous referencing or referencing period? Still absurd.

Suggesting the way in which the NCAA and universities deal with athletic departments, and the way the public views athletic departments, has shifted in the wake of the Penn State scandal is not absurd.

[Lennys Tap]

Suggesting the way in which the NCAA and universities deal with athletic departments, and the way the public views athletic departments, has shifted in the wake of the Penn State scandal is not absurd.

Maybe our athletic department decided to bring in an outside investigating group to deal with T shirtgate because of Penn State. If that's the case then I think it's our athletic department who is absurd.

[nathanziarek]

The issue of course is that not all institutions and AD's set the same limits.  It appears MU is headed the direction that won't make it a coach/athletics friendly place - as it was under Father Wild.

Please name the limits placed on the coach of the Marquette Golden Eagles that are not placed on the coach of the Georgetown Hoyas or the Memphis Tigers or ... your pick, really.

[nathanziarek]

Good point, though I'm pretty sure the conclusions I've drawn will be far more likely to become a reality than those put forth by Pakuni.  To suggest Buzz won't be highly coveted by other schools due to these minor issues is ridiculous.

If these minor issues mean the school can't go about recruiting properly because the NCAA is all over their keister, then it's a perfectly valid point.

But, really, the issue is more that you are dismissing a point because you don't agree with it, and then spinning your tale as if it's fact. It's getting super tiresome.

[mu03eng]

You are 100% correct.

However, an academic institution has to be careful about inserting athletic success (specifically winning) as part of it's mission.

Once you go down that road, you create a culture where you are willing to sacrifice "right" for the "good of the program". I'm not saying that everything is absolutely black and white, but the MU Administration cannot drink the kool aid, and need to remain objective, even if it hurts in the short run. It just has to be that way.

Honestly, Penn State is the perfect poster child for a school who inserted winning into it's mission statement and culture, and thus decisions were made based upon if it would help/hurt the program. Once that culture takes hold, it's a hard habit to break.

Also, what is with all of the Pilarz and LW hate? We haven't even seen these dudes long enough to know much about them, yet some are ready to run them out? Maybe Monarch should know the rules, then he wouldn't be fired. That's not Pilarz and LW's fault.

I would agree with you if the same standard was applied across the entire athletic department.  I know for a fact that they are letting things slide in non-basketball sports that they aren't for the basketball program.  I agree that culture is important, but this seems less about culture and more about some PR concern and going after Buzz

[ATL MU Warrior]

I would agree with you if the same standard was applied across the entire athletic department.  I know for a fact that they are letting things slide in non-basketball sports that they aren't for the basketball program.  I agree that culture is important, but this seems less about culture and more about some PR concern and going after Buzz

Come on...how many other non-basketball sports have caused all the negative press over the last couple of years?  Of course they are going after the basketball program...that's where the problems have been.

BTW, cleaning up the issues within the basketball program is NOT the same thing as going after Buzz.  And, if Buzz really has serious issues with anything that's going on he's completely full of BS.  You know, character revealed, a better person than basketball player, accountability, all that stuff. 

I hope that he's not completely full of BS, so I don't believe there is really any major friction between Buzz and LW/the admin.

[Tugg Speedman]

Gary Parrish‏@GaryParrishCBS

"How many other coaches with back-to-back Sweet Sixteens you think would get a suspension from his own school for this? Zero, I'd bet."

I call BS, Parish is 100% wrong.  I noted this in the other post I started
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33438.msg406353#msg406353

We are now in a post Joe PA era.  Parish is living in the past.

Bobby Petrino was 11 and 1 and won cotton bowl and they bounced his ass for falling off a motorcycle.  So, while Parish is technically correct, he is conceptually wrong.  

See Butch Davis at UNC.   See Jim Tressel.  How about Bruce Pearl?

In the post Joe Pa era, HC's that are winners are not rationalized.  They are immediately fired.

[4everwarriors]

Did Petrino fall off his motorcycle before or after he porked that chick?

[Small Orange Soda]

I call BS, Parish is 100% wrong.  I noted this in the other post I started
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33438.msg406353#msg406353

We are now in a post Joe PA era.  Parish is living in the past.

Bobby Petrino was 11 and 1 and won cotton bowl and they bounced his ass for falling off a motorcycle.  So, while Parish is technically correct, he is conceptually wrong.  

See Butch Davis at UNC.   See Jim Tressel.  How about Bruce Pearl?

In the post Joe Pa era, HC's that are winners are not rationalized.  They are immediately fired.

All those coaches were fired for lying, just like Scott Monarch was.  If there's an issue between Buzz and the Athletic Department, it's probably over whether or not his own suspension is justified.

[Tugg Speedman]

All those coaches were fired for lying, just like Scott Monarch was.  If there's an issue between Buzz and the Athletic Department, it's probably over whether or not his own suspension is justified.

Like I said, this is a new era, the post Joe Pa era.  HC's are now responsible for everything. 

[Small Orange Soda]

Like I said, this is a new era, the post Joe Pa era.  HC's are now responsible for everything. 

Then why are you using examples Pre-JoePa to back up your point?  Tressel, Pearl, and Petrino would all likely still have their jobs if they didn't lie. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Cut to the chase.  Do you think agree with Parish that Buzz is being unfairly punished?  I do not.  His suspension is more about the culmination of things that suggests the program is out of control.  Monarch was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Small Orange Soda]

Cut to the chase.  Do you think agree with Parish that Buzz is being unfairly punished?  I do not.  His suspension is more about the culmination of things that suggests the program is out of control.  Monarch was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Honestly, I have no clue.  But it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Parish was echoing Buzz's thoughts.

[Tugg Speedman]

Honestly, I have no clue.  But it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Parish was echoing Buzz's thoughts.

That I agree with and this is what worries me.  Buzz does not get it.

* SMU
* TJ Taylor
* Todd Mayo suspended and then not suspended
* Apartment 720
* Monrach breaking the rules and lying
* Multiple in-season suspensions
* Newbill
* Sexual assault (harassment)
* Half the team getting busted for being under 21 in a bar
* Vander fight/court appearances, etc.

After all this Buzz get a one-game suspension and he feels jilted? 

[Small Orange Soda]

That I agree with and this is what worries me.  Buzz does not get it.

* SMU
* TJ Taylor
* Todd Mayo suspended and then not suspended
* Apartment 720
* Monrach breaking the rules and lying
* Multiple in-season suspensions
* Newbill
* Sexual assault (harassment)
* Half the team getting busted for being under 21 in a bar
* Vander fight/court appearances, etc.

After all this Buzz get a one-game suspension and he feels jilted? 

You're assuming all those things played into the suspension.  I don't imagine Larry told Buzz that considering another job was a factor in this.

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree, you can take SMU off the list above.  But even with that revision it is acceptably long and suggests and out of control program.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would agree with you if the same standard was applied across the entire athletic department.  I know for a fact that they are letting things slide in non-basketball sports that they aren't for the basketball program.  I agree that culture is important, but this seems less about culture and more about some PR concern and going after Buzz

I hope you are wrong, but honestly, I have no idea. I don't have any inside information, so I don't know.

[Cooby Snacks]

Did Petrino fall off his motorcycle before or after he porked that chick?

Both. Also during.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Any comparison whatsoever to Penn State is ludicrous. Remember the "Hitler" analogies seen on the internet that disgust all sane people? Same difference.

Fine.

Let's use SMU as the example then.

They let winning and $ become part of their mission statement, and it quickly spun out of control.

MU is NOWHERE near this level. Not even close. I'm not implying that at all.

But, philosophically, the MU admin. needs to to keep doing what is right, even if it might hurt in the short run.

For me, this isn't about this specific situation (I have no special insight), but rather the reaction of some people when MU makes a decision that could hurt the program. I'm certainly not happy about about an assistant being fired, but I'm not grabbing a pitch fork and heading for Larry's house.

[Blackhat]

I don't know about arguing any of this anymore, but if you wanted an MU off season of killing any program momentum among the fans they are getting there....  since Buzz and team got their Sweet Sixteen accomplished.


thank goodness for our great recruiting, which may or may not come to fruition.

[Goose]

My only question is if LW has an anti Buzz agenda or just playing by the book. If playing 100% by the book I would be disappointed but could not argue that. If anti Buzz agenda due to perception that Buzz is loose on things would be very disappointing. From what I have heard for months Buzz is not their kind of guy. To me if Buzz and MU are cool with each other none of this stuff means anything to me. every program has issues and for whatever reason ours has become more public over last year.