2012 MLB Thread

[Otule's Glass Eye]

there is 50 mil on the payroll next year and if Greinke gets his extension he takes probably 15-20 mil off the board. Hamilton would prob get a deal for 15-20 mil instead of the 25-30 mil he would get if he had no problems. Rangers are worried about his durability and past problems. But for his ability 130 games really isnt bad. If somehow we manage to sign BOTH Greinke and Hamilton there would likely around 10 mil left, and if they don't resign Marcum (which I wouldn't mind because he has a dead arm and I'm ready for Peralta to come up) then there's 10 mil to use on cheap players. There's a few prospects I know of that could replace the other guys leaving. This is extremely unlikely to happen but it's got me excited.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Too good for the MLB thread?

Anyway...Prince was worth keeping over Josh Heroin (see what I did there?). High risk for lesser games played, baggage, and tier-two eliteness in the MLB.

tier-2 eliteness? Look at his stats right now. He is on pace to break Barry Bonds' HR record among other things. He won the MVP 2 years ago. He is better than Braun at his best and if he can stay healthy for 150 games+ he is the best player in baseball.

[GGGG]

tier-2 eliteness? Look at his stats right now. He is on pace to break Barry Bonds' HR record among other things. He won the MVP 2 years ago. He is better than Braun at his best and if he can stay healthy for 150 games+ he is the best player in baseball.

Baseball executives get in trouble when they pay players for what they did...and not what they are going to do.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Baseball executives get in trouble when they pay players for what they did...and not what they are going to do.

He's only 30 which is only a year or 2 older than Braun I believe which means he is at or nearing his peak. Apparently he is still learning small things about the game. He is one of the few 5 tool players in baseball. He is the best player in baseball right now, and he has pretty much been for the past 3 years. Yes there is concern about durability but I'd rather have 130 games with MVP #'s than 150 games from overpriced Ramirez or Weeks.

[cheebs09]

Weeks and Ramirez aren't getting paid the money and years that Hamilton will get. No one is saying that Hamilton isn't one of the best players in the league, it's just if I had to commit big money to someone for an extended period of time, I'd probably go with Prince. Since the Brewers didn't do that, I'm guessing they aren't going to be involved in the Hamilton bidding. 

[🏀]

tier-2 eliteness? Look at his stats right now. He is on pace to break Barry Bonds' HR record among other things. He won the MVP 2 years ago. He is better than Braun at his best and if he can stay healthy for 150 games+ he is the best player in baseball.

I don't need to look at his stats, I know what his stats are. However, it is mid-May. When it comes to counting stats in baseball, talk to me in August/September and you won't be telling me about breaking Bonds' record.

He is better than Braun at his best? I imagine you are declaring JH's last two weeks his best? His last two weeks would make him the best baseball player ever then...when he is playing at his best.

Braun is tier-one elite along with Longoria, Votto, Pujols, Cabrera, AGon, Tulo, Cano, Bautista and Kemp. After those guys you can bring Hamilton into the conversation along with Prince, Adam Jones, Justin Upton, McCutch, Zobrist etc...

Take away Hamilton's best and worst season, and he still is a sub 4 WAR player, great investment. Go ahead though, I would like to see the Brewers throw their money away. His splits between Arlington Park and away is a big enough tell that Hamilton isn't a tier-one talent.

[MUBurrow]

So I agree that there is no way that the Brewers throw money at a guy like Hamilton.  But, on the other hand, I think that I would be happier stomaching his risk than Prince's.  The unique type of risk that Hamilton's drug issues represent isn't as surefire a decline as Prince's stress on his knees as a power hitter.  In fact, I would also be happier with Hamilton's risk than really any pitcher, money being equal. I'm much more afraid of the Brewers investing money into Greinke or another SP long term than I am Hamilton, Prince, etc. However PTM makes perhaps the most valuable point that Hamilton's drug issues actually serve to distract from his true stats - which are the real reason the Brewers wont and shouldn't invest.

[MerrittsMustache]

I don't need to look at his stats, I know what his stats are. However, it is mid-May. When it comes to counting stats in baseball, talk to me in August/September and you won't be telling me about breaking Bonds' record.

He is better than Braun at his best? I imagine you are declaring JH's last two weeks his best? His last two weeks would make him the best baseball player ever then...when he is playing at his best.

Braun is tier-one elite along with Longoria, Votto, Pujols, Cabrera, AGon, Tulo, Cano, Bautista and Kemp. After those guys you can bring Hamilton into the conversation along with Prince, Adam Jones, Justin Upton, McCutch, Zobrist etc...

Take away Hamilton's best and worst season, and he still is a sub 4 WAR player, great investment. Go ahead though, I would like to see the Brewers throw their money away. His splits between Arlington Park and away is a big enough tell that Hamilton isn't a tier-one talent.

If Braun was on the Rangers and Hamilton on the Brewers, would you consider Hammy to be top-tier? I bet you would. Also, how does Braun's PED use factor in?

[GGGG]

Not sure how Braun's PED use factors in.  Right now he is having a season just slightly under last year's. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Not sure how Braun's PED use factors in.  Right now he is having a season just slightly under last year's. 

So he's still cheating? 

[reinko]

So he's still cheating? 

Insert wadesworld Brewer rant saying Braun was not found guilty, complete with a Sammy Sosa reference.

Then insert back PTM comment telling wadesworld to chill out, and that nobody cares.

Insert wadesworld saying, "well clearly somebody does, because all Cubs fans do is bring this up..."

Insert TallTitan comment about blah blah blah.,


Y'all are welcome, I just saved about 10 minutes of your life.

[🏀]

If Braun was on the Rangers and Hamilton on the Brewers, would you consider Hammy to be top-tier? I bet you would. Also, how does Braun's PED use factor in?

I'm not a Brewers fan, so that wouldn't really play into my opinion.

Braun's career average WAR of 5.5 is a full point and a half ahead of Hamilton proves my point.

[🏀]

Insert wadesworld Brewer rant saying Braun was not found guilty, complete with a Sammy Sosa reference.

Then insert back PTM comment telling wadesworld to chill out, and that nobody cares.

Insert wadesworld saying, "well clearly somebody does, because all Cubs fans do is bring this up..."

Insert TallTitan comment about blah blah blah.,


Y'all are welcome, I just saved about 10 minutes of your life.

Well done.

[TallTitan34]

Blah Blah Blah!

[GGGG]

So Kerry Wood is retiring today.  He's pretty much the Cubs' version of Teddy Higuera right?

[MerrittsMustache]

So Kerry Wood is retiring today.  He's pretty much the Cubs' version of Teddy Higuera right?

Seems about right.

However, it's really rare to see a player never come close to living up to his potential but still become a beloved fan favorite - says a lot about the type of person he is and the type of injuries he dealt with.

[🏀]

Seems about right.

However, it's really rare to see a player never come close to living up to his potential but still become a beloved fan favorite - says a lot about the type of person he is and the type of injuries he dealt with.

Also helps that he pitched one of the top 5 greatest games of all time at the age of 21.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Also helps that he pitched one of the top 5 greatest games of all time at the age of 21.

He was 20, and struck out his age.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm not a Brewers fan, so that wouldn't really play into my opinion.

Braun's career average WAR of 5.5 is a full point and a half ahead of Hamilton proves my point.

Where did you get that number? I see Braun at 4.5 and Hamilton at 3.9.

[Lennys Tap]

Seems about right.

However, it's really rare to see a player never come close to living up to his potential but still become a beloved fan favorite - says a lot about the type of person he is and the type of injuries he dealt with.

Also says a lot about Cub fans. They fawn over Wood much like they still fawn over a team that finished 8.5 games behind the Mets 43 years ago. Kind of pathetic, no?

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Also says a lot about Cub fans. They fawn over Wood much like they still fawn over a team that finished 8.5 games behind the Mets 43 years ago. Kind of pathetic, no?

Brewers fans only fawn over World Series champions.  If the Brewers would've lost the 1982 World Series, I'm sure you wouldn't see the team wear throwback uni's every Friday home game for a season.

[Lennys Tap]

Brewers fans only fawn over World Series champions.  If the Brewers would've lost the 1982 World Series, I'm sure you wouldn't see the team wear throwback uni's every Friday home game for a season.

You may be right about the '82 Brewers. That said, there is no team in baseball history that has as big a gap between accomplishment and adulation as the '69 Cubs.

[MerrittsMustache]

Also says a lot about Cub fans. They fawn over Wood much like they still fawn over a team that finished 8.5 games behind the Mets 43 years ago. Kind of pathetic, no?

Looking at it another way, Cubs fans fawn over Wood because he had several major injuries that could have been career-ending but he kept fighting and kept coming back and kept producing. He was also a key contributor on 3 playoff teams (in '07 he was hurt most of the season so I'm not counting that one). He also took significantly less money to re-sign with the Cubs each of the last 2 seasons. IMO, it's more about character than it is about his actual on-field production.

I will give you that the adulation given to the '69 Cubs is pretty bizarre.

[Lennys Tap]

All good points on Kerry Wood, Stache. Good guy, as loyal to the Cubs as the fans were to him.

[🏀]

Where did you get that number? I see Braun at 4.5 and Hamilton at 3.9.

Don't think I included either's first season in the majors. Math may be incorrect.

It was incorrect. Braun is 5.525 and JH is 4.55.

Still a full win better than Hamilton.