The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[mwbauer7]

This is a whole new administration, and it smells more like the DiUlio regime than the Wild regime...

Wait, is there a nickname more common than "Golden Eagles" amongst the 345 Division I basketball teams we need to worry about switching to?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The MU that has done a lot of things right with hoops lately, is largely no longer around - as in Father Wild, Bill Cords, and Steve Cottingham.  This is a whole new administration, and it smells more like the DiUlio regime than the Wild regime...

According to whom? The mystery quotes that made Buzz so mad he wanted to leave? (ALLEGEDLY)

Cottingham was ROASTED (unfairly) by some around here when he was hired. Now he's the gold standard?

Why are people so afraid of Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz? Dear Lord.

Maybe we all need to start debating how long and AD and President get before we can evaluate them. Can it be more than 6 months?

[mr.MUskie]

I can't believe you keep repeating this mantra. Of course Buzz wouldn't leave over a couple of comments (no matter how douchie) by LW in the newspaper. Those comments are just a reflexion of a work environment that's deteriorated from ideal to not so hot in the past year for Buzz. This started before LW arrived.

I would assume the BOT hasn't changed much (if any) since Buzz was "happy", so you're saying it's Father P who Buzz doesn't get along with?

[Lennys Tap]

Fine, but what is MU supposed to do? Buzz has to have a boss. He has to be accountable to SOMEBODY at SOME POINT, right?

You don't like Larry. Fine. Should it be Pilarz directly? What if they have "issues"? Should Buzz report to the Pope?

Buzz is VERY VALUABLE to MU, but just about every person in the world has a boss and is held accountable for their performance.

What is MU doing/saying that Buzz doesn't like? From the outside looking in, MU appears to have provided him with a lot, and in turn , he has been very successful.

Your sarcasm and yelling aside, of course Buzz has to report to someone and I don't think anyone suggested it be the Pope. Was there any "boss" problem when he was reporting to Fr Wild and Steve Cottingham? No. When Arkansas and Oklahoma came after him he wasn't interested. He didn't want to mess with happy. This year he reports to Fr Pilarz and Larry Williams and when SMU (a far lesser program) came calling he listened and listened hard. He obviously doesn't consider his new work environment conducive to happy. You can't fathom him not being happy because MU's checks aren't bouncing. Unfortunately, he can.

[Canadian Dimes]

This whole thread is dumb.  Buzz has always stated he likes being at MU because its culture matches his.  So if he did in fact listen to SMU why would that surprise anyone??  A Christian school very close to home, that is attempting to join the bigtime I am not surprised that he would listen.  What would of surprised me was if he actually took it... And he is still at MU so whats the big deal?

[Lennys Tap]

According to whom? The mystery quotes that made Buzz so mad he wanted to leave? (ALLEGEDLY)

Cottingham was ROASTED (unfairly) by some around here when he was hired. Now he's the gold standard?

Why are people so afraid of Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz? Dear Lord.

Maybe we all need to start debating how long and AD and President get before we can evaluate them. Can it be more than 6 months?

Have you ever worked for Fr Wild, Steve Cottingham, Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams? Do you even know any of them? Yet you'll "Dear Lord" the guy who has for being happy and comfortable with the guys who hired him but not so much with the guys who inherited him and maybe aren't so wild about him. (no pun intended) Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Is that the Pima Air Museum? Great collection of aircraft. I woould wander the yard if I had a few hours to kill. That's down near Fred Enke which is a sweet desert course we always played

yes it is.

[avid1010]

It was working fine til the AD dissed him in public. Praise in public, criticize in private. Even the least tactful person in a high profile position, like a BE AD should have acquired this basic skill. He has been promoted beyond his ability and I hope hos OJT does not cost us the best coach we have had in years.

i still haven't heard anything from a reliable source as to the background of this comment.  for all i know AD walks in Buzz' office, comment on how hilarious his dance was at WV since the jerks are leaving the BEAST, and then asks buzz if he's cool with the AD coming down on him a bit publicly for the dance.  smu calls to talk to buzz, and buzz says heck yeah i want to talk to them and be respectful to help get my assistant a job...and rumors start flying.

i'm not sure anyone with true insight into the BOT or upper admin is going to be posting it on the internet...and i think a lot of rumors get spread because people like to act like they know people. 

[madtownwarrior]

finally - a voice of fricken reason!

i still haven't heard anything from a reliable source as to the background of this comment.  for all i know AD walks in Buzz' office, comment on how hilarious his dance was at WV since the jerks are leaving the BEAST, and then asks buzz if he's cool with the AD coming down on him a bit publicly for the dance.  smu calls to talk to buzz, and buzz says heck yeah i want to talk to them and be respectful to help get my assistant a job...and rumors start flying.

i'm not sure anyone with true insight into the BOT or upper admin is going to be posting it on the internet...and i think a lot of rumors get spread because people like to act like they know people. 

[wildbill sb]

This whole thread is dumb.  Buzz has always stated he likes being at MU because its culture matches his.  So if he did in fact listen to SMU why would that surprise anyone??  A Christian school very close to home, that is attempting to join the bigtime I am not surprised that he would listen.  What would of surprised me was if he actually took it... And he is still at MU so whats the big deal?

Amen, brother. Amen.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Have you ever worked for Fr Wild, Steve Cottingham, Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams? Do you even know any of them? Yet you'll "Dear Lord" the guy who has for being happy and comfortable with the guys who hired him but not so much with the guys who inherited him and maybe aren't so wild about him. (no pun intended) Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

None of us have worked for these guys, yet some are ready to automatically blame the new guys for an alleged strain in the relationship with the coach and are predicting a precipitous fall of MU athletics.

My whole point is that we don't know what is going on, so why do some automatically believe MU has wronged Buzz? We've heard weird rumors and innuendo on the internet, but nothing to really indicate if Buzz was leaving because he wanted to go back to TX, or if it was because "MU messed with his happy."

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Your sarcasm and yelling aside, of course Buzz has to report to someone and I don't think anyone suggested it be the Pope. Was there any "boss" problem when he was reporting to Fr Wild and Steve Cottingham? No. When Arkansas and Oklahoma came after him he wasn't interested. He didn't want to mess with happy. This year he reports to Fr Pilarz and Larry Williams and when SMU (a far lesser program) came calling he listened and listened hard. He obviously doesn't consider his new work environment conducive to happy. You can't fathom him not being happy because MU's checks aren't bouncing. Unfortunately, he can.

Forget it.

Mods, feel free to delete.

I've overstayed my welcome on this topic.

Nothing more to say.

[Dawson Rental]

Ners I said "difficult but not impossible.". Do you honestly think that is wrong?  If so than you either think too much of buzz or not enough of marquette.

I disagree with difficult but not impossible.  Mostly because it implies that another Buzz Williams can be found, and seems to say that that will happen, if Marquette tries really, really hard.  Well SMU just tried really really hard and missed on their first 4(?) choices. 

Instead of talking about difficulty, I think its more accurate to talk about probabilities.  To me Buzz has already outperformed Tom Crean substantially, and could possibly, but not likely be in the same league as Al.  Realistically, McGuire was a once in a century coach.  Buzz is at least a once in a generation coach.  The only way Marquette gets that kind of coach again is by going the assistant coach route, and getting very lucky, regardless of how hard they try.

[MU82]

Well, there are few guarantees in life, but this comes close to being one: Marquette will have to replace Buzz someday.

Probably before the decade ends, possibly before the decade reaches its midway point and perhaps as early as a year from now.

It's college coaching. It's what happens.

[NersEllenson]

I can say without any degree of speculation, and 100% confidence - Buzz to SMU damn near happened.  To those who mocked the letter writing campaign thread to state their support of Buzz - you probably can thank those people (who wrote) for Buzz still being the Head Coach at MU.  Buzz is still at MU due to 2 things and 2 things only:  Loyalty to the kids he's recruited and due to the many letters of support he received as this whole crap storm unfolded. 

The reality is Buzz went from happy to unhappy in a matter of 1 year, during which time a new President and Athletic Director came into power.  If Pilarz and L Williams manage to run off Buzz due to overreaching micromanagement, the aftermath will be quite interesting...and sad for MU Basketball moving forward.

[Warriors10]

Come on 90 more pages!

Buzz was close to being gone, and if you don't believe that, then you are in for a rude awakening in the coming years.

[strotty]

Well, there are few guarantees in life, but this comes close to being one: Marquette will have to replace Buzz someday.

Probably before the decade ends, possibly before the decade reaches its midway point and perhaps as early as a year from now.

It's college coaching. It's what happens.

Can we make this the last post of the thread and then lock it? This says it all. Well-put.

[warthog-driver]

Can we make this the last post of the thread and then lock it? This says it all. Well-put.

Why would we do that? We have the opportunity to break the current record!

[brewcity77]

Well, there are few guarantees in life, but this comes close to being one: Marquette will have to replace Buzz someday.

That one's definitely a guarantee, unless the world ends. Even if he sees out his career here, he'll eventually have to be replaced.

[mu_hilltopper]

I can say without any degree of speculation, and 100% confidence - Buzz to SMU damn near happened.  To those who mocked the letter writing campaign thread to state their support of Buzz - you probably can thank those people (who wrote) for Buzz still being the Head Coach at MU.  Buzz is still at MU due to 2 things and 2 things only:  Loyalty to the kids he's recruited and due to the many letters of support he received as this whole crap storm unfolded. 

The reality is Buzz went from happy to unhappy in a matter of 1 year, during which time a new President and Athletic Director came into power.  If Pilarz and L Williams manage to run off Buzz due to overreaching micromanagement, the aftermath will be quite interesting...and sad for MU Basketball moving forward.

+1 .. I'd add that the root cause of Buzz going unhappy is the academic and off-court behavior of some players .. that's what got the ball rolling.

[TJ]

Calling out a coach in the local newspaper who has been the most successful coach of the university's flagship program since Al McGuire is idiotic.  What credentials does Larry Williams have that make him qualified to "help Buzz become a better coach?"  

If anyone can find anything similar - where an A.D., calls out a coach who is probably the best coach in the country under the age of 40, and overall probably a Top 10 desired coach in college basketball, who does not embarrass the university through his own personal conduct...I'd love to see an example of it.

Like it or not, that quote was made immediately following an incident in which Buzz's personal conduct could have been seen as embarrassing to the university.  So your hypothetical doesn't even match this case, let alone others.

[Hoopaloop]

 And it's rubbish because......
             Buzz is not MU's Number one asset?
             Young men 18-22 shouldn't be expected to make mistakes?
             The "new" MU administration is not arrogant and believes it has all the answers?
             It would be easy to replace Buzz without missing a beat?

Please advise.

Rubbish for any number of reasons.

1) During the Mike Deane era, which the said poster implies we would be on a crash course to land in, did not have:

The Big East
The Al McGuire Center
A Final Four, two additional Sweet 16's and 8 NCAA appearances in the last 10 years
#2 Basketball budget in the country
Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Jimmy Butler, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward, etc playing in the NBA night in and night out as MU billboards

The Deane era had none of that.  Is Ners suggesting we are going to tear down the Al center?  Are we leaving the Big East?  Are all those MU NBA players quitting?  Are they stripping us from our Final Four and NCAA success?  Even if we were to pull back on the budget from #2 to say #15, it will hardly cripple us and send us back to the future.  COMPLETE. RUBBISH.

2) Marquette can hire another coach.  We have won with other coaches in the past and will again in the future.  Sultan does a nice job of explaining why.

3) Marquette is its own #1 asset.  Without MU, Buzz isn't the coach.  MU isn't MU because of Buzz.  He doesn't walk on water.  He is a terrific coach, tireless worker but he makes mistakes, too (Durley, Roseboro, Clark, Newbill).  No one is irreplaceable.

4) The same guys that say MU will go into the toilet if Buzz leaves are the exact same guys that predicted the former coach would be fired by now at his new job.  We're supposed to believe their predictions about impending doom for MU if Buzz leaves, but ignore their past predictions that have been so completely wrong?

Complete. Rubbish.

Does it strike anyone that some of these fans are angry that Buzz has a boss?  I can think of a number of guys that seem downright upset that he not only has a boss but bosses and has to be accountable to them.  They just want Buzz to be left alone to do his thing.  No oversight, just let him do what he needs to do to win.  I don't think I am off base with that conclusion.  It seems to irritate the hell out of some fans that Buzz has people he is responsible to and they wish they would just get out of the way.  

[NersEllenson]

Like it or not, that quote was made immediately following an incident in which Buzz's personal conduct could have been seen as embarrassing to the university.  So your hypothetical doesn't even match this case, let alone others.

I figured someone would point this out...problem is MU and society to an extent have become overly politically correct.  Al McGuire's behavior was revered - standing on scorer's tables etc.  The over-reaction of the MU administration to Buzz's West Virginia dance was further evidence that "fun" can no longer be had at MU.  Buzz's dance after the Louisville game where DJO did the follow up dunk, and his West Virginia dance - went viral - and by and large anyone with a spirit of fun could appreciate the exuberance.  But not the self righteous among our fanbase/administration.

[NersEllenson]

Rubbish for any number of reasons.

1) During the Mike Deane era, which the said poster implies we would be on a crash course to land in, did not have:

The Big East
The Al McGuire Center
A Final Four, two additional Sweet 16's and 8 NCAA appearances in the last 10 years
#2 Basketball budget in the country
Dwyane Wade, Steve Novak, Jimmy Butler, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward, etc playing in the NBA night in and night out as MU billboards

The Deane era had none of that.  Is Ners suggesting we are going to tear down the Al center?  Are we leaving the Big East?  Are all those MU NBA players quitting?  Are they stripping us from our Final Four and NCAA success?  Even if we were to pull back on the budget from #2 to say #15, it will hardly cripple us and send us back to the future.  COMPLETE. RUBBISH.


4) The same guys that say MU will go into the toilet if Buzz leaves are the exact same guys that predicted the former coach would be fired by now at his new gig.  We're supposed to believe their predictions about impending doom for MU but ignore their past predictions that have so completely wrong? I find the humor in their predictions to be just a bit sprinkled with hypocrisy and a healthy layer of bias in both of these examples.

Complete. Rubbish.

Funny that many here know you predicted MU would go into the toilet if it hired Buzz Williams..remember all of your backlash about the "process?"  And if you'd read my previous post - I'd already pointed out why The Al Mc Guire Center, a STRONGER Big East, recent success weren't enough to land even a highly regarded young coach like Anthony Grant, Tony Bennett, or even your boy Keno Davis.  Lastly D Wade, and all of the other recent NBA players (did Marquette make them NBA players or did Crean and Buzz make them NBA players?)  To suggest Marquette University made those guys NBA basketball players is ludicrous as are most* of your points.

[Goose]

The dance was awesome, not Al on the table or saluting ND student section awesome, but I loved it. After that game and the dance I sat there enjoying a beer and told my wife that Buzz was going to take us to levels we have not seen in 35 years if given enough freedom. For a brief moment after that game people around the country were talking MU ball and I loved it.