The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It was absolutely a culture problem....even some of the BOT at Penn State knew about the Sandusky allegations as far back as 2009(including the now Governor of Pennsylvania who started the investigation as AG), and yet did nothing about it.  That is all a culture problem.  MU isn't even close to that kind of problem, just a little course correction for some of the athletics and we're all good

Agree.

In no way am I implying that MU has problems advanced as Penn State.

I'm implying that all schools need to have structure and accountability. The head coach of the football or basketball team cannot at the top of that structure.

IF that causes friction for a head coach, then the AD and U President need to get that squared away and clarify the expectations.

[Lennys Tap]

Mumbo jumbo?

Jerry was allowed to get away with everything for years because people worshiped at the alter of football, and JoePa.

When people know something is wrong, but NOBODY speaks up because it would hurt "the program"... that is a most certainly a culture problem.

It doesn't matter what the wrongdoing was, nobody at Penn State was speaking up, and that's the root of the issue.

When the PEOPLE in charge know something is wrong and cover it up, it's the fault of the PEOPLE in charge. Blaming dereliction of duty on something amorphous like the culture is a copout.

Whether it's the Chuch, the presidency or Penn State the powers that be made the self serving, shortsighted decision that covering up bad news is somehow in the institution's (and their own) best interest.

How this has anything to do with MU's situation is beyond me.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When the PEOPLE in charge know something is wrong and cover it up, it's the fault of the PEOPLE in charge. Blaming dereliction of duty on something amorphous like the culture is a copout.  

I respectfully disagree. Culture plays a huge role in how people act/react.

[warthog-driver]

I'm still pissed that they stopped handing out the Oluoma Nnamaka Consistency Award.

2007-08: Jerel McNeal
2006-07: Wesley Matthews
2005-06: Chris Grimm
2004-05: Ousmane Barro and Dan Fitzgerald
2003-04: ??? can't find it anywhere
2002-03: Terry Sanders
2001-02: Oluoma Nnamaka (it was just called the Consistency Award then)

Maybe they are just handing it out inconsistently

[Rubie Q]

Jason King just reported on ESPN regarding SMU HC search:

"SMU initially went after Marquette's Buzz Williams who was very close to taking the job before backing out at the last second..."

Wow. Perhaps it was much closer and serious than we thought. Incredible.

King is a pretty solid source and that quote is pretty definitive.

I don't think King used the words "at the last second," unless I'm watching a different video than everybody else.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58064/video-jason-king-on-smu-larry-brown

[Hoopaloop]

How can a university screw up the relationship with its number 1 asset?  How can a coach spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year with 13 players?  Young men 18-22 make mistakes. 

Sure hope Buzz doesn't leave, but if MU doesn't get it right with Buzz - MU hoops as you've known it these last 10 years is over.  Be ready for a return to the Mike Deane days.  Sadly believe the new administration has an arrogance about it that is reminiscent of the DiUlio days...

Complete. Rubbish. 

[Benny B]

How can a university screw up the relationship with its number 1 asset?  How can a coach spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year with 13 players?  Young men 18-22 make mistakes. 

Sure hope Buzz doesn't leave, but if MU doesn't get it right with Buzz - MU hoops as you've known it these last 10 years is over.  Be ready for a return to the Mike Deane days.  Sadly believe the new administration has an arrogance about it that is reminiscent of the DiUlio days...

Complete. Rubbish. 

Grab the popcorn and put the kids to bed... it's about to get crazy in here.

[Skatastrophy]

Complete. Rubbish. 

Dunno if I'd go as far as rubbish, but it is some Chicken Little "The sky is falling" conjecture. 

[ATWizJr]

Complete. Rubbish.  

And it's rubbish because......
             Buzz is not MU's Number one asset?
             Young men 18-22 shouldn't be expected to make mistakes?
             The "new" MU administration is not arrogant and believes it has all the answers?
             It would be easy to replace Buzz without missing a beat?

Please advise.

[GGGG]

  And it's rubbish because......
              Buzz is not MU's Number one asset?
              Young men 18-22 shouldn't be expected to make mistakes?
              The "new" MU administration is not arrogant and believes it has all the answers?
              It would be easy to replace Buzz without missing a beat?

Please advise.

It's rubbish because Marquette basketball is more than just one man.  We have made the S16 with three of the last four coaches.  If Buzz leaves, it would be difficult to replace him, but hardly impossible.

[real chili 83]

Just listened to the King interview on ESPN.

No substance. None what so ever.  Nada. Zilch.  Zippo.

Did your hear that Durley has a 195 mph fastball?

I appreciate Goose and Sultan's (and others), who have friends, relatives, lovers, spies, moles, and confidants that walk the campus and pick up pieces of intel to share with us.

Keep sharing.  However, this King interview has no substance.  Is that what this whole thread was started on!?

[ATWizJr]

It's rubbish because Marquette basketball is more than just one man.  We have made the S16 with three of the last four coaches.  If Buzz leaves, it would be difficult to replace him, but hardly impossible.

Agreed. No one is irreplaceable.  But, college BB is virtually dependent on recruiting, kids do not commit to schools making the loss of a high profile devastating for a 2-4 year period at most schools.  And I'm not 25 any more so I'm hoping to continue seeing MU be an elite team, now.

[NersEllenson]

It's rubbish because Marquette basketball is more than just one man.  We have made the S16 with three of the last four coaches.  If Buzz leaves, it would be difficult to replace him, but hardly impossible.

MU had exactly 2 Sweet 16 appearances from 1977 until 2011...Buzz just got us 2 in a row.  Who is the last coach to take us to multiple Sweet 16's?   Which coaches shot Marquette down after Crean left (even though we were already in the Big East and had the Al McGuire center)?  Has Buzz missed an NCAA tourney since he's been here?  Do we think next year's team will miss the NCAA's?  Who is last coach to take us to 5 consecutive NCAA's?  MU struck gold in both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams.  To think Top 100 talent (and coaches) are just beating down the door to come to MU is the height of optimism and or arrogance.  Kids come to play for a 95% for a coach, maybe 5% for the school...especially when not named Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA.

What is so different about our program now, than when Crean left MU from the perspective of MU being an attractive destination for a highly regarded coach/upcoming coach.  Bennett, Keno Davis, Anthony Grant all said thanks MU, but no thanks.

Sadly Sultan, it is your view that scares the hell out of me, as I can see the same view being held in administration...and quite frankly, it is arrogant and misguided.

[madtownwarrior]

Keno Davis said thanks but no thanks - really?  nice stretch to make your point

[GGGG]

Ners I said "difficult but not impossible.". Do you honestly think that is wrong?  If so than you either think too much of buzz or not enough of marquette.

[NersEllenson]

Ners I said "difficult but not impossible.". Do you honestly think that is wrong?  If so than you either think too much of buzz or not enough of marquette.

Do I think it is impossible?  No.  Will it be extremely difficult?  Absolutely.  Not trying to argue with you here...but the questions I posed in the previous post...I think...do raise some very legitimate concerns as to MU's place in the college basketball landscape (perception-wise), and with the even more unstable Big East these days - I think it is an even dicier deal than it was after Crean left.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

MU had exactly 2 Sweet 16 appearances from 1977 until 2011...Buzz just got us 2 in a row.  Who is the last coach to take us to multiple Sweet 16's?   Which coaches shot Marquette down after Crean left (even though we were already in the Big East and had the Al McGuire center)?  Has Buzz missed an NCAA tourney since he's been here?  Do we think next year's team will miss the NCAA's?  Who is last coach to take us to 5 consecutive NCAA's?  MU struck gold in both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams.  To think Top 100 talent (and coaches) are just beating down the door to come to MU is the height of optimism and or arrogance.  Kids come to play for a 95% for a coach, maybe 5% for the school...especially when not named Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA.

What is so different about our program now, than when Crean left MU from the perspective of MU being an attractive destination for a highly regarded coach/upcoming coach.  Bennett, Keno Davis, Anthony Grant all said thanks MU, but no thanks.

Sadly Sultan, it is your view that scares the hell out of me, as I can see the same view being held in administration...and quite frankly, it is arrogant and misguided.

I think there is some truth here... but even if you are 100% right, what is MU supposed to do?

They already pay Buzz very well. They give him a private plane and what appears like a ton of support from the athletic office.

What else should they be doing to hang onto the golden goose?

MU certainly isn't the hottest girl at the dance, but MU seems to be doing the best it can (given what it is working with).

[TJ]

Ners I said "difficult but not impossible.". Do you honestly think that is wrong?  If so than you either think too much of buzz or not enough of marquette.

I think Ners has proven both of those to be the case.

[seinfeld]

MU had exactly 2 Sweet 16 appearances from 1977 until 2011...Buzz just got us 2 in a row.  Who is the last coach to take us to multiple Sweet 16's?   Which coaches shot Marquette down after Crean left (even though we were already in the Big East and had the Al McGuire center)?  Has Buzz missed an NCAA tourney since he's been here?  Do we think next year's team will miss the NCAA's?  Who is last coach to take us to 5 consecutive NCAA's?  MU struck gold in both Tom Crean and Buzz Williams.  To think Top 100 talent (and coaches) are just beating down the door to come to MU is the height of optimism and or arrogance.  Kids come to play for a 95% for a coach, maybe 5% for the school...especially when not named Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA.

What is so different about our program now, than when Crean left MU from the perspective of MU being an attractive destination for a highly regarded coach/upcoming coach.  Bennett, Keno Davis, Anthony Grant all said thanks MU, but no thanks.

Sadly Sultan, it is your view that scares the hell out of me, as I can see the same view being held in administration...and quite frankly, it is arrogant and misguided.

no, i think it is arrogant and misguided to think that the only reason that Buzz would leave is that the administration 'didn't get it right.' It couldn't possibly be that Buzz would be hardheaded and think that he should have complete control over the basketball program and operate it on an island separate from the rest of the school. That he would think that off court issues should be dealt with internally within the athletic department. To expect an administration to just accept a situation in which a coach has no accountiblility is ridiculous. Hopefully the battle struggle has been cleared up and Buzz has accepted the fact that the Basketball program is part of the University and not THE university. If he hasn't then, bye, bye, we don't need him.

[TJ]

I think there is some truth here... but even if you are 100% right, what is MU supposed to do?

They already pay Buzz very well. They give him a private plane and what appears like a ton of support from the athletic office.

What else should they be doing to hang onto the golden goose?

MU certainly isn't the hottest girl at the dance, but MU seems to be doing the best it can (given what it is working with).

Apparently it is the opinion of some that they also need to let Buzz and his subordinates do whatever they want with no repercussions whatsoever.  Basically Buzz should really be the one making decisions for Marquette, deferring to Pilarz and the BOT on issues he deems unworthy of his time.

[NersEllenson]

I think there is some truth here... but even if you are 100% right, what is MU supposed to do?

They already pay Buzz very well. They give him a private plane and what appears like a ton of support from the athletic office.

What else should they be doing to hang onto the golden goose?

MU certainly isn't the hottest girl at the dance, but MU seems to be doing the best it can (given what it is working with).

They*** being the previous administration/regime...the new regime??  Questionable at best.  Saying you want to "help Buzz become a better coach," and that he "ties his tie too tight to where he will either offend someone beyond repair or himself," isn't exactly the stuff a sensible A.D., would quote to a local newspaper.  Has Larry Williams ever been a Head Coach at a Division 1 school?? No..yet he's gonna help Buzz become a better coach?  Arrogant.  Don't care who you are, if you are being honest with yourself...you really don't like your new boss of roughly 90 days calling you out in the local newspaper after you've toiled 4 years on gotten the program's best results in 40 years.

[NersEllenson]

Off court issues....Jesus...getting WAY blown out of proportion.  Have Buzz or MU or the players for that matter ever been allowed to tell their side of the story as to all of the off court "incidents."  The bar fight the local media floated insinuating that DJO left somebody in a really bad way..perhaps using a bottle to hit someone??  Totally false.  Kids weren't even drinking at a club for God sakes.  Anyone know what some local townie punk kids might have said to instigate things?

The local media are on a witch hunt...period...and MU continues to take a kitten approach to the witch hunt.  MU continues to allow itself to be bullied by the local media..and the only way you back down the bully is to bully back.

[seinfeld]

Off court issues....Jesus...getting WAY blown out of proportion.  Have Buzz or MU or the players for that matter ever been allowed to tell their side of the story as to all of the off court "incidents."  The bar fight the local media floated insinuating that DJO left somebody in a really bad way..perhaps using a bottle to hit someone??  Totally false.  Kids weren't even drinking at a club for God sakes.  Anyone know what some local townie punk kids might have said to instigate things?

The local media are on a witch hunt...period...and MU continues to take a kitten approach to the witch hunt.  MU continues to allow itself to be bullied by the local media..and the only way you back down the bully is to bully back.

The issue is the accountibility of Buzz. He is not the boss. He does not run the University.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

They*** being the previous administration/regime...the new regime??  Questionable at best.  Saying you want to "help Buzz become a better coach," and that he "ties his tie too tight to where he will either offend someone beyond repair or himself," isn't exactly the stuff a sensible A.D., would quote to a local newspaper.  Has Larry Williams ever been a Head Coach at a Division 1 school?? No..yet he's gonna help Buzz become a better coach?  Arrogant.  Don't care who you are, if you are being honest with yourself...you really don't like your new boss of roughly 90 days calling you out in the local newspaper after you've toiled 4 years on gotten the program's best results in 40 years.

Here is where you lose me.

I don't think Buzz is that thin skinned, nor do I think LW comments were as bad as people make them out to be. I cannot imagine that is the reason Buzz would leave to take the SMU job.

If Buzz is really that thin skinned, then he really should move on. Buzz has said things far more harsh about his own players.

[GGGG]

Ners. Regarding LW comments:  that isn't arrogant. All bosses want to improve their employees. My boss cannot do my job but if he said that he wanted to help me be better, I would be happy.

Re the media: fighting back would only make it worse. Believe me.