Futbol Talk

[jesmu84]

Human nature. 

1)  Exhibition game
2)  We are ranked 34th in the world...34th
3)  Some of their top players didn't play...their top players way better than our top players
4)  There aren't 3 guys on the US that could start for either of those teams

So on and so forth.  Or just reading the soccer journalists takes before the games were even played.  The intensity wasn't there, just a friendly, more important for them (US) than us, so on and so forth.


I'll give you an example, about 2 weeks ago we had Barcelona in town to play the LA Galaxy in a friendly.  93,000 people showed up for the game.  Barcelona won 2-1.  Neymar and Messi didn't play, and quite frankly the "stars" who did were going through the motions.  The score looked ok, though the Galaxy scored in the 90th minute.  Barcelona brought their C game.  Some soccer goofs out in this part of the world started talking about how good the Galaxy are....yesterday the Galaxy got destroyed by Houston in the MLS. 

Can I prove what is in a man's heart and how hard they tried?  Nope.  The reverse is true as well.  I'm just going by human nature, starting with the obvious...it was an exhibition game vs a team that is ranked 34th in the world.

As has been demonstrated numerous times by several journalists/analysts, the FIFA rankings are incredibly flawed. About zero people actually pay attention to them and they matter even less to the teams/players.

Germany didn't play several top players. But neither did the US.

I don't disagree with the premise for your argument, however.

[brewcity77]

The FIFA rankings only matter for World Cup seeding. If you aren't in the top 7-8, they have no value and are incredibly flawed in that mediocre European and South American teams will be overrated.

The ELO rankings are a much better indicator. Coming into this tournament, the USA was ranked 14th, Jamaica 71st, and Panama 40th. Those are not games we should be losing, especially on home soil.

We dropped from 14th to 20th this month.

[Golden Avalanche]

In my opinion, he has had a mostly positive impact on US soccer.  Not sure I agree with your analogy, however.  It was as much about who was not playing as it is about the effort and willingness to care about playing.  They were exhibition games against a team ranked in the middle 30's in the world.  We were far more up for those games then they are to play the US. 

Do you think the Dutch get really fired up to play Tunisia in a friendly?  Yet Tunisia is ranked higher than the US is in the FIFA world rankings.

I don't agree with my analogy. I wrote it to show how ludicrous it is to consider everything black/white regarding our soccer program. The concept of a best XI is fluid and changes by the week for any of the top nations in the world outside of a competition. Definitively stating that one side has a B/C squad and one side has an A/B squad is foolish unless the manager has explicitly fielded a youth team.

Rankings don't matter. Accomplishments do. The German and Dutch federations scheduled a match that would draw 40-45,000 people against a country that was in the final 16 last year in Brasil. You take a 2004 mindset when it comes to the standing the US enjoys presently. They aren't top tier but they draw a crowd and will qualify out of a World Cup group stage. Tunisia provides neither of those even with a higher Coca-Cola ranking.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't agree with my analogy. I wrote it to show how ludicrous it is to consider everything black/white regarding our soccer program. The concept of a best XI is fluid and changes by the week for any of the top nations in the world outside of a competition. Definitively stating that one side has a B/C squad and one side has an A/B squad is foolish unless the manager has explicitly fielded a youth team.

Rankings don't matter. Accomplishments do. The German and Dutch federations scheduled a match that would draw 40-45,000 people against a country that was in the final 16 last year in Brasil. You take a 2004 mindset when it comes to the standing the US enjoys presently. They aren't top tier but they draw a crowd and will qualify out of a World Cup group stage. Tunisia provides neither of those even with a higher Coca-Cola ranking.

To each their own.  We're ok, but we aren't elite or even very good.  Yes, we made the final 16 and were throughly outclassed every possible way against Belgium in that Round of 16 game in regulation.  Dominated, but as soccer purists know you can get lucky and survive for 90 minutes and pull off an upset.  We didn't, of course, but we almost did. 

We all have our opinions. I played most of my life, could have walked on at MU if I had tried.  Played with Cobi Jones, Erik Wynalda in high school.  My son is one of the better goalkeepers here in the O.C.  In my opinion, there aren't more than 3 guys on our starting squad that could start on any of the top 10 teams.  We are better now overall then we were in 2004, so I dispute your claims.  That being said, we still aren't that good.  In my view, Germany and the Dutch treated the game like it was....an exhibition game.  In fact, in at least one of them they also got up big and then went to cruise control and ultimately lost.  In a real game, that would not have happened.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you really don't know.  You are simply making assumptions.

Yup, just like I said....though I try to tie those assumptions with some logic, some data, some expert opinions.  Best I can do.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

[brewcity77]

Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

Disagree. We have enough of a population that we are already able to support 3 pro sports leagues at the highest level with mostly (50%+) domestic players. There are enough people and resources in this country that we would be able to win a Cup splitting athletes.

We do need some of our best to play the sport, but I think it's attainable within this generation (2026 at earliest) and certainly within our lifetime. The MLS academies are starting to bear fruit and, for better or worse, Klinsmann's recruiting strategy is working.

There are still steps to be made, but a slightly higher level of talent coupled with our typical better than the sum of the parts playstyle and it's completely possible.

[Henry Sugar]

Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

The best player in the world, and arguably ever, is 5'7 and 148 lbs. He would lose almost any athletic competition against any US player.

And also everything brewcity77 just said.

[Golden Avalanche]

Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

You're watching way too much ESPN. That's unhealthy.

[Golden Avalanche]

To each their own.  We're ok, but we aren't elite or even very good.  Yes, we made the final 16 and were throughly outclassed every possible way against Belgium in that Round of 16 game in regulation.  Dominated, but as soccer purists know you can get lucky and survive for 90 minutes and pull off an upset.  We didn't, of course, but we almost did. 

We all have our opinions. I played most of my life, could have walked on at MU if I had tried.  Played with Cobi Jones, Erik Wynalda in high school.  My son is one of the better goalkeepers here in the O.C.  In my opinion, there aren't more than 3 guys on our starting squad that could start on any of the top 10 teams.  We are better now overall then we were in 2004, so I dispute your claims.  That being said, we still aren't that good.  In my view, Germany and the Dutch treated the game like it was....an exhibition game.  In fact, in at least one of them they also got up big and then went to cruise control and ultimately lost.  In a real game, that would not have happened.

It seems your big benchmark is that you played the game 30 years ago. That's so long ago it's hardly relevant to the discussion of where the US Soccer program currently resides in the estimation of the world.

I'll finish this discussion by writing for someone so experienced in the sport to claim that in a "real game" we'd never see one team get up big, coast, and ultimately lose is naive. It happens. Often.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It seems your big benchmark is that you played the game 30 years ago. That's so long ago it's hardly relevant to the discussion of where the US Soccer program currently resides in the estimation of the world.

I know you'll have pithy responses and I'm sure you'll mention again that you played with Wynaldumb and Jones so I'll finish this discussion by writing for someone so experienced in the sport to claim that in a "real game" we'd never see one team get up big, coast, and ultimately lose is naive. It happens. Often.

That's not my benchmark at all.  I offered it up simply because I'm not some random fan who watches soccer every 4 years.  I've played it most of my life, my son plays now at a high level. 

I happen to believe the MLS academies are doing some good work and find Klinsman's strategy there to be beneficial overall.  In my view, the average fan doesn't know that is going on or the benefits (hopefully) that it will yield.

My comments about the friendlies and the relative strength of the program against the elite teams of this world (i.e. the Dutch, Germans, etc) isn't going to change. We are better than we were in 2004, the 1990's, etc, but we are not at that level of those teams.  In my view there is a pretty big drop off after you get past the first 6 to 8 national teams.  And in my view, getting excited about beating Germany and the Dutch in a friendly is a fool's errand. 

[GGGG]

Unless the best athletes from the country start playing soccer, the US will never be good and will never come close to winning the world cup.

It's not that.  I highly recommend reading a book called Soccernomics because it lays out in some detail why certain countries are really good at soccer despite their population, and vice versa. 

[ATWizJr]

Anyone remember US Soccer's Plan 2010?  Was supposed to bring us a World Cup by then.  Thank God for the USWNT.

[brewcity77]

I happen to believe the MLS academies are doing some good work and find Klinsman's strategy there to be beneficial overall.  In my view, the average fan doesn't know that is going on or the benefits (hopefully) that it will yield.

The MLS Academy push started 7 years ago and Don Garber is the one that deserves credit for it. That was 2 years before Klinsmann came on the job. JK's biggest development move so far is the coaching academy.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The MLS Academy push started 7 years ago and Don Garber is the one that deserves credit for it. That was 2 years before Klinsmann came on the job. JK's biggest development move so far is the coaching academy.

Understood when and how they were started, but they have recalibrated their focus under Klinsman and USA Soccer in the last few years.  The strategy has changed in how the academies are run.  We should be clear, too, it isn't just the MLS Academy but actually the USSDA.  Here in So. Cal, we have 7 programs alone...including the Strikers FC in Irvine for which my son has some involvement.  MLS is a major part, but so is NASL and USL. 

[JWags85]

Went to Man Utd-PSG at Soldier Field last night for the final of the ICC.  Cool event, 60K+ fans, good atmosphere albeit a bit awkward and impersonal with some of the game atmosphere being more aligned with an NFL game, but fun nonetheless.  So many Walmart Man Utd fans in attendance.  I ran out of fingers counting the number of jerseys or shirts with tags still on them.  Absolutely amazing to see PSG outplay them and shut them up with a goal from Ibra.

While its all an exhibition, I think the attendance for these matches does nothing but help the sport overall in the states.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Went to Man Utd-PSG at Soldier Field last night for the final of the ICC.  Cool event, 60K+ fans, good atmosphere albeit a bit awkward and impersonal with some of the game atmosphere being more aligned with an NFL game, but fun nonetheless.  So many Walmart Man Utd fans in attendance.  I ran out of fingers counting the number of jerseys or shirts with tags still on them.  Absolutely amazing to see PSG outplay them and shut them up with a goal from Ibra.

While its all an exhibition, I think the attendance for these matches does nothing but help the sport overall in the states.

Can't stand PSG. Nothing I dislike more then seeing David Luiz and Thiago Silva do well and win. (Don't even know if they played last night but the point is still the same)

[JWags85]

Can't stand PSG. Nothing I dislike more then seeing David Luiz and Thiago Silva do well and win. (Don't even know if they played last night but the point is still the same)

Really?  I assume its due to your Colombian fanship, but PSG is probably the most palatable of all the oil-infused superclubs to me.  Ibra is my favorite player in the world, and seeing him in person makes you appreciate him even more.  He moves like a shark off the ball.  I like Veratti, and Matuidi, and Digne.  Luiz is a joke and probably the most overpaid, ill advised transfer in recent memory.  Great kits and Parc du Princes is a really cool looking ground.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Really?  I assume its due to your Colombian fanship, but PSG is probably the most palatable of all the oil-infused superclubs to me.  Ibra is my favorite player in the world, and seeing him in person makes you appreciate him even more.  He moves like a shark off the ball.  I like Veratti, and Matuidi, and Digne.  Luiz is a joke and probably the most overpaid, ill advised transfer in recent memory.  Great kits and Parc du Princes is a really cool looking ground.

In all fairness I do like Ibra, but he's been bounced around so many times I'd hardly call him a PSG player. Maybe you're right though, I just don't really like Brazilian soccer players. I'm a Chelsea fan and I want to pull my hair out every time Willian is playing. That and Neymar may be my least favorite superstar in the world.

[Golden Avalanche]

In all fairness I do like Ibra, but he's been bounced around so many times I'd hardly call him a PSG player. Maybe you're right though, I just don't really like Brazilian soccer players. I'm a Chelsea fan and I want to pull my hair out every time Willian is playing. That and Neymar may be my least favorite superstar in the world.

Seems pretty clear the Brasil bias is there if you don't like the Brasilians on your own squad. Understandable given your heritage.

I, too, do not mind PSG even though the other rich puppies of soccer (Monaco, Citeh, Chelski, etc.) I find to be ludicrous in their ridiculousness. But my bias is also down to the Zlatan. I've been a fanboy of his since the Ajax days and his recent video interview with SI.com is pure gold. I love the "wow" man.

[brewcity77]

I used to watch Zlatan a ton when he was at Inter. He is a simply amazing player. So technically gifted for a man his size. For me, him and Messi are the two best players in the world, with Ronaldo a step behind them.

[brewcity77]

USA/Mexico Confederations Cup playoff scheduled for October 10.

[ChicosBailBonds]

USA/Mexico Confederations Cup playoff scheduled for October 10.

Yup, 93K expected...will be a HOME game for the Mexican Nat Team.   

[brewcity77]

Yup, 93K expected...will be a HOME game for the Mexican Nat Team.

It'll be interesting to see. Sounds like they are trying hard to make sure that most of the tickets get sold in presale which will be divvied up evenly between fans on both sides. I already know there are fundraisers to buy up as much of the US allocation as possible to get military veterans and AO supporters in the stadium.

It's still in LA, so probably more Mexico fans than USA, but I doubt it will be the 95% Mexican fans we've seen at so many venues in the past.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It'll be interesting to see. Sounds like they are trying hard to make sure that most of the tickets get sold in presale which will be divvied up evenly between fans on both sides. I already know there are fundraisers to buy up as much of the US allocation as possible to get military veterans and AO supporters in the stadium.

It's still in LA, so probably more Mexico fans than USA, but I doubt it will be the 95% Mexican fans we've seen at so many venues in the past.

I'm working on a digital product right now that targets US Hispanics as a consumer base.  The agency working with the project is so convinced it will be dominated by Mexican fans that they are hiring two planes to pull banners all day at the Rose Bowl with advertising messaging.  Also street teams, etc.  They expect 70%+ Mexican support.